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belugatime

Just read the original article šŸ¤£ >ā€œI donā€™t understand why real estate agents are necessary because there are two websites \[property buyers use\] in this country, right?ā€ he said. ā€œSo, it confuses me, the idea that these people are necessary, and they need to get 2 per cent of the sale because, like, what do they do? > >........ > > ā€œWhat do you want me to do, lie? Put it at $1.5 million and sell it for $1.8 million? I want this to be like an honest sale,ā€ he said. ā€œI put $1.8 million because thatā€™s what Iā€™ll take.ā€ [https://www.theage.com.au/property/news/i-want-an-honest-sale-how-a-brunswick-man-is-selling-his-home-without-an-agent-20230511-p5d7ku.html](https://www.theage.com.au/property/news/i-want-an-honest-sale-how-a-brunswick-man-is-selling-his-home-without-an-agent-20230511-p5d7ku.html?btis=&fbclid=IwAR2EzEXo64H04N5sv6szbh0zOEMbWghEjSzM_iG2ufPlZm5E-uDMMlvsMps)


GummyBearGorilla

Iā€™ll get flamed for this but here goesā€¦ Although our industry does have some absolute useless wastes of oxygen, there is a large portion of the industry that genuinely works their asses off day in day out in a 24/7 industry. There is so much work and stress that goes into successfully negotiating a multi-million dollar sale.


belugatime

Yep. More goes into negotiating a deal than people realise and most people are delusional about their ability to sell. Real Estate sales isn't easy which is why it pays so well for people who are successful.


Frankie_T9000

Yeah thats why people dont sell their own cars....oh wai


belugatime

Yet there is a platform for selling property and a platform for selling cars with nothing stopping people from using either, yet one is used more by individuals than the other.. Property is much more complex to sell than a car. The reason is that a car is cheaper making the investment decision easier and less consequential for the buyer, also it's much more homogenous so it's directly comparable to others whereas properties differ more significantly.


omgitsduane

I heard the other day that in almost any job 80 percent of the work is carried out by 20 percent of the workers.


Frankie_T9000

Lies


Illustrious-Idea9150

correct.


MuzGr

'arse's' not 'asses'. We're in Australia cobber.


Intelligent-Put-1990

Heā€™s just a delulu owner who thinks his property is worth more than it is. However, props to him for trying to cut out REAā€™s, we really need to normalise this. It feels like it will be inevitable one day anyway.


captincooked

There are so many websites that allow you to sell privately, they get it listed for you on domain and realestate.com etc for quite a small fee. We sold our home like this as I couldn't stand the REAs we spoke to. Says he couldn't sort his shit in Domain so not sure how he is trying to run this!


Intelligent-Put-1990

It definitely feels like REAā€™s will be the next workforce to become borderline redundant (hello Travel Agents šŸ‘‹šŸ»). All it will take is one platform to blow up. Iā€™m surprised one hasnā€™t already tbh.


Upset_Painting3146

I donā€™t think it will ever become the norm. Most people will only sell 1 or 2 properties in their life time, they wonā€™t want to go through the process of learning to how to sell and the uncertainty of whether they are getting the best price over such a rare and expensive procedure.


Top_Philosophy_8373

This. The vast majority of people are deluded if they think they will get anywhere near the sale price a good REA will. I'm no fan of REAs, but they are usually worth their commission and more.


shakeitup2017

Small sample size, but our experience has been the exact opposite. There's very little incentive for an agent to get the price up. They just want quick, easy sales. They'll usually only negotiate enough to get to the minimum amount the seller will agree to. An extra $10,000 on the sale price only makes them another $250-300 or so on their $30k of commission. It ain't worth their effort.


captincooked

This is the same for me. We spoke to several agents before we sold. We got an idea of what we could sell for. Then we factored in the cost of an agent. I know this is just a 'in my experience' sort of statement, but we had been watching the market seeing what everything around us was selling for and alongside what the agents said that we could expect, we exceeded that by quite a significant amount. The below commenter is correct though, it was a little time consuming dealing with all the enquiries etc, but I basically had a list of reply comments that I could copy paste reply. Would I do it again though? In a heartbeat!


Top_Philosophy_8373

In my experience agents may tend to underestimate how much the property might sell for. There is always some unexpected variability in what the market will pay, so they don't want to promote unreasonable expectations in the owner. And when they do sell it for more, they look amazing. Not to discount your experience though - you may be in the minority with the negotiating skills and work ethic to do it well.


Top_Philosophy_8373

There are always exceptions, which is why I say the "majority". If you are a strong negotiator, understand the market and the selling points of your property, and have a lot of spare time on your hands, then by all means you could do well selling your property. This isn't most people. There are also bad/lazy agents. But it's not just about the commission on the current sale for them. Favourable sales stats ensure they continue to be employed and get more jobs in future.


PrimeMinisterWombat

Is there any independent way to verify this or is it just a hunch? Where's the data on REA-led vs owner-led sales?


joesnopes

If you think there might be an independent but trustworthy way of verifying it, I have a Harbour Bridge you might like. People are speaking from lived experience and observing human nature.


PrimeMinisterWombat

Right, so it's a hunch.


joesnopes

Call it what you like. Feel better?


PrimeMinisterWombat

Yeah, I like being right.


Top_Philosophy_8373

Of course not, I'm not aware of data either way. Which is why the majority of people should adopt the risk averse approach of using a REA.


PrimeMinisterWombat

Right, so it's a hunch.


PrimeMinisterWombat

Right, so it's a hunch.


joesnopes

Not only that, it takes too much time for people who have a job and a family to cope with.


SkinHead2

Iā€™ve sold 9. One was $1.9 mill.


WeOnceWereWorriers

I.e. you're not "most people"


SkinHead2

I was 25 when I sold my first unit. Itā€™s not hard. You are being fooled if you think you can t


WeOnceWereWorriers

No one talked about "hard". Did you want a cookie & a pat on the back? No one cares about your bragging Just that "most people" will only sell 1-2 houses in their lifetime


SkinHead2

The point would be. Have a go. Dont think its too hard cause someone tells you itā€™s too hard


tjswish

The point is that some people should "have a go". I would not encourage someone like my Mum to have a go because she gets emotionally attached to things and isn't a sales person. She wanted to be at her own open home and we had to pretty much pull her away. Now me and my siblings need to sell a deceased estate (my dad) and I live too far away (or I'd do it) and the others have full time jobs, kids and it's still a 30 min drive each way if we needed to show it. For a $750,000 property, spending 15k on an agent seems like a no brainer...


WeOnceWereWorriers

No one says it is actually too hard. It was the earlier Redditors comment that most people aren't going to sell their houses by themselves though. Just like most people don't do major renovations, represent themselves in court, etc. Could they? Absolutely. Is there any reason to believe that the norm is going to change and make your anecdotal life experience the standard by which society operates? No


iamfuturejesus

9? That's amateur numbers. I've sold 20 and I'm only 19


guac_out

Exactly. We need the house version on Carsales.com or bike sales.com


belugatime

It will be a bad experience for most selling a property themselves with such a site as it's less homogeneous than a car and is more expensive making the selling process more complex. Particularly if you have no sales skills and can't emotionally detach from it being your property. As a buyer it's annoying dealing with delusional owners who say "I know what I've got" on carsales, it will be even worse buying a house from these people. Most vendors will end up saying "shut up and take my 2%" for the same reason many people trade cars rather than selling themselves privately.


tomc-01

There are already lots of them, or am i missing something? https://www.google.com/search?q=house+private+sale+website+listing&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&hl=en-au&client=safari


guac_out

Nope, I was missing it


Stanfool

You do know that one guys owns all 4 domains. Real-estate.com.au Car sales.com.au Bike sales.com.au Commercial real estate.com.au


xku6

Not true. Realestate.com (REA) own the real estate sites. CAR Group (CAR) own the automotive sites. Two separate companies.


Obvious_Arm8802

Realestate.com is owned by news international and domain by fairfax. Newspapers used to make loads of money showing real estate ads so they started their own websites when they saw the writing on the wall.


joesnopes

How many used car salesmen do you think are behind [carsales.com](https://carsales.com)? Salesman - in any industry - is a well-paid job and a valuable skill.


BustedWing

lol at travel agents disappearing. Itā€™s a thriving (but changed) industry. One of the bigger misconceptions out there IMO


FelixNZ

While the boomers are still around, sure, what happens after they all go though?


sinangunaydin

You say this, but the older I get, the more I can see the value in one. Itā€™s all well and good to organise your own holiday but once youā€™re married, have kids, full-time work, etc the last thing you want to do is spend all your spare time trying to plan an itinerary, book travel and accommodation, etc etc Travel agents might not have the physical presence they had in the past but they still exist within companies like Expedia and they also service corporate customers.Ā 


BustedWing

Take a look at OTAs and the juggernaut that is corporate travel. Iā€™m not being rude here, but those that say ā€œtravel agents are deadā€ thinking of Betty in a shop booking your flight to Sydney for Christmas, and assuming THATS what a travel agent is, have NFI.


joesnopes

You'll have to learn to protect yourselves. Believe me, there are enough clever, conniving potential salesmen among Millennials to make you wish you'd paid more attention. Human nature doesn't change. Only how it expresses itself.


Intelligent-Put-1990

Guurl, it takes 2 minutes to google the stats. Of course they still exist, and will probably exist in some form for a very long time, but the industry is at like 10% if its former glory. And once the boomer generation goes, that will most likely halve again.


BustedWing

Not even close. Corporate travel agents have grown exponentially, and OTAs are massive. Take some of the big players as an example. Look at their P&Ls. Look at their growth and profit YoY even with Covid factored in. Theyā€™re not dying. Theyā€™re growing.


Wonderful_Room_9148

Nobody knows your property, Like you do.


hryelle

Owner occupiers also have an emotional attachment that can cloud their judgement. At a minimum you should get a registered valuer to do a valuation, not just the REA "market appraisal."


hongy_r

Out of interest, how did the sale go? Did you get a price you were happy with?


shakeitup2017

We've sold two properties using buymyplace. The first one we had listed with an agent for a month and the best offer he could get was $30k below list. His term expired and a month later we relisted with buymyplace. Place sold within 2 or 3 weeks at $5k below asking price. The agent spent more time trying to get us to drop the price than he did trying to sell it I reckon. Second one we had an agent give an appraisal of $715k. We ended up listing ourselves at $779k and it sold within 4 days at full asking price. I think we had 40 groups through on the first open. Both experiences were actually less stressful than dealing with an agent. We saved circa $50-60k in commissions, and got about $90k better sale price, give or take. Having bought and sold a bunch over the years we've not had great experiences with agents for the most part, and there's a good chance we won't use one again. It's not going to be for everyone, but an absolute no brainer for us.


grilled_pc

i do hope AI wipes out the entire REA industry. It easily could be done.


joesnopes

No it couldn't.


grilled_pc

It absolutely could. Inspections can be done via taking photos which AI can analyse. Auctions can be done by online bots. It would be so much fairer if the algorithms were held correctly.


joesnopes

The real estate agent exists to persuade buyers to pay more than most owners could. They can't be replaced by AI. The rest is just to fill time.


BustedWing

ā€œAgents are useless, I can do it for free no worriesā€. Over a year laterā€¦ ā€œIā€™m gonna use an agent, I canā€™t sell itā€. Next attempt is heā€™s going to see if he can get people to work for free, employing multiple agents, but only paying one of them. Letā€™s see if it works out for him.


SnooSongs8782

He is in advertising, a breed I rate only slightly above REA. Let them have at it I say. Maybe the agents he sets up will tear him apart, and a couple of them will go down fighting for the scraps!


Inspector-Gato

More like "He's in advertising, and wants to make a point/cause a fuss/promote himself more than he wants to sell his house"


BustedWing

I suspect it wonā€™t work out for him at all.


Ascentior

At least REA have the indecency to lie TO YOUR FACE.


queue2queue

As commission base should be ?


Lamington770

There is a reason why agents usually sign an exclusive listing agreement with vendors. What would the point be in doing the legwork to find a buyer for it to sell with another agent? You can say what you want about agents but I don't think very many people would go to work for the week if there was a chance they weren't getting paid at the end of it.


HowevenamI

>You can say what you want about agents but I don't think very many people would go to work for the week if there was a chance they weren't getting paid at the end of it. Luckily that literally never happens and is completely illegal in Australia. Glad you brought it up though.


BustedWing

Yet that's whats being asked of the agents in this case. They may choose to do it, but I suspect they wont


Find_another_whey

You did just describe commission based sales at the end there


BustedWing

With parameters in place, either more certainty of $$$ or more $$$ in lieu of certainty.


SJC856

2% of property sale fits in the more money, less certainty box to me. Property sells itself in this housing crisis. For the task of setting up a few online ads and taking contact details at inspections, $10-20k seems extortionate.


BustedWing

Except it didnā€™t in this instance. Old mate thought the same thing as you doā€¦..and it didnā€™t sell for a year


SJC856

Old mate set an unrealistic price. If the seller is firm on an unrealistic price, no agent is making that sale either.


BustedWing

Thatā€™s up to the agents to convince him to (a) drop the price or (b) convince him that they CAN find a buyer at that price. If they can they have earned their commission and then some


BustedWing

With parameters, like exclusivity contracts and so on. If the seller wants those parameters removed, then thr agent may say ā€œtoo risky, not worth it thank youā€. I suspect they will. Or they might say, ā€œIā€™ll take the risk of working for free, but I want a bigger than normal payout if I winā€. Reckon the seller is prepared to pay a larger commission to compensate for the greater risk? Orā€¦they might get brand new agents/terrible agents with no business on their books, and this deal is better than nothing at all. Is that the type of agent you want working on your biggest sale of your life?


Basherballgod

Agent here. I wonā€™t waste my time on an open listing. If they owner canā€™t commit to me, then I sure as shit ainā€™t going to commit to them. There is a reason why good agents wonā€™t work on them.


SnooBeans5425

Good and REA are not words that match haha. They are all liers and thieves


BustedWing

Man I hate this sort of mentality. Itā€™s such a nonsense thing to say. No Iā€™m not a REA.


SnooBeans5425

I'm sorry but how are my experiences a nonsense thing to say. In my 40 odd years on this earth and dealing with REA I have never come across a good one


stevenadamsbro

That Brunswick property would have sold yonks ago if it was priced reasonably


sinangunaydin

If heā€™d listed it at 1.5 and asked for offers heā€™d probably have got close to the 1.8 he wanted but by putting above market value he turned away any interest. And heā€™s an ad-maker? RIP


maaaooowww

I reckon he had offers for $1.5m but was stubborn. Could have offloaded it months ago


Wonderful-Self-

I doubt he even got offers for $1.5m, I know this area really well and there are better properties for $1.5. At that price you can find the same with a bit more outside space and a nicer street.


EuphoricSilver6564

Yeah I looked at this property yesterday after reading the article. For that price range, thereā€™s way better value in the suburb. A quick search online shows you can buy houses with similar/better features in the area for that money. Heā€™s dreaming.


FamousPastWords

But he has changed all the door knobs.


eoffif44

How are you comparing prices? An agent's "guide $1.8 million" and "for sale by owner: $1.8 million" are not the same price.


EuphoricSilver6564

Just looking at listed properties in Brunswick and doing a quick comparison. For 1.65m you can get a better deal than that place.


rockofclay

You'll probably find that's under quoted. Better to look at sold results


EuphoricSilver6564

Iā€™ve also looked at those. And for the ones Iā€™m looking at Iā€™m looking at a lower price range and adding 100-200k at least. Iā€™m familiar with the area. You can get better value.


sboxle

Agreed. Felt like it shouldā€™ve been 1.5M *at most* when it listed a year ago, though I assume the marketā€™s gone up a little.


RubyKong

Agents won't like competition......they much prefer easy money over doing actual work and competing with a great chance of losing out for the work they actually do put in.Ā  Ā Ā update:Ā He'll have to pay them up front in order to incentivise them,Ā  but that won't work either. The only way it might work,Ā  is if he pays the winner an 8% commission,Ā  but the agent will not be able to sell 6% above market price so that will be more expensive than just picking one agent with a decent commission.Ā  Updated for clarityĀ 


BustedWing

Will be interesting to see if agents will be prepared to work for free, which is essentially what heā€™s asking all but the ā€œwinnerā€ to do. I bet heā€™s gonna find it harder than he thinks.


Griffo_au

Although this one might be worth the media attention ā€œwe sold the house they couldnā€™tā€


moderatelymiddling

It's all about the price. People will find the listing.


aminormalorweird

Bit of additional context, this fella created a media circus (as well as a YouTube channel) about how it would be a piece of cake to do it himself. https://www.theage.com.au/property/news/i-want-an-honest-sale-how-a-brunswick-man-is-selling-his-home-without-an-agent-20230511-p5d7ku.html https://youtube.com/@PRIVATESALE.WALTONSTREET?si=qs_Vvc5t_2legjJB https://6waltonst.tv/


guac_out

That was absolutely unwatchable. That YouTube channel makes me not want to buy the house.


Basherballgod

Agent here. This guy is an absolute idiot. He is doing absolutely everything wrong in the sale of the property. 1. Shockingly bad marketing (just look at the photos) 2. Shockingly bad video (seriously) 3. Wonā€™t do any repairs to make the property present better. 4. Wonā€™t declutter to make the property look better. 5. Overpriced it to all hell. He could have put it on for $1.4-$1.5 about a year ago and would have sold for about $1.5 6. Belittled everything that agents do, so you can be guaranteed that every agent in the area was happy to let buyers know about every issue that the house has. 7. Now he has auctioned it, and completely messed it up. Uncle dying is a up there with ā€œmy dog ate my homeworkā€ 8. And now he is doing the absolute worst thing - appointing multiple agents. The theory is that ā€œmore agents will mean more buyersā€ Mate, this isnā€™t the 1980ā€™s, buyers arenā€™t going to one agent, they are going to multiple. You are going to get a buyer call every agent, see who the weakest negotiator is and then hammer the owner with an offer. It isnā€™t going to get the best price, it is guaranteed to get the lowest price. Do you honestly think an agent is going to try their best to get him the best price after he has trashed every one of them; and still thinks that he can do better than them. He deserves everything he got, which is sweet fuck all and he has lost probably about $400k by acting like an absolute toss. He will be a case study for agents about what not to do, in every facet of the sale.


LuckyErro

Lot's of people sell their own property. Its nothing new. Lots of people multi-list.


mr--godot

The situation is reversed. Bro is mixed up, and blind. It's only buyers that would benefit. Most vendors don't know how to negotiate a property sale.


AppealFree2425

Nearly all property owners overestimate the value of their own property. If he revised the price, it would sell.


SessionOk919

Thereā€™s a similar property near me. They tried to self-sell it for $800k above bigger, better properties, at the top of the market in 2022. Itā€™s now been on & off the market for 2 years. They are now on their 4th agent, but are still $500k over priced šŸ¤¦šŸ¼ā€ā™€ļø Itā€™s a red flag that they are greedy.


Inspector-Gato

I just found old mates youtube channel, I hadn't heard about this at all, thank you to the OP.


fruitloops6565

Will be curious to see what it sells for. I suspect the bait and switch will get him a good price thus reinforcing why REA do the scummy things they do.


MousseAfter388

Film and AD makerā€¦and he still couldnā€™t create a buzz or any type of advertising or social media presence?


Laktakfrak

I am considering this when I sell in a years time. From the people Ive spoken to who have done this the problem is people dont want to come to your home. Basically, buyers actually like and trust real estate agents. Youd think that wouldnt be the case. But they are actually more comfortable going through agents. Anyway, Im still going to give it a shot.


SnooBeans5425

Sadly it's true out of a owner seller vs agent you take a calculated risk with REA knowing how dodgy and corrupt they are vs an individual who potentially could be more shady


AimForFreedom

Works way better than using an agent, the flexibility of private viewings when suits buyers gets much better results


flintzz

Agents are bad but dealing with people is worse. It's similar to when you try to sell anything on FB marketplace or carsales


Spicey_Cough2019

Properties are only worth what somebody else is willing to pay for it


Jsic_d

Tell him heā€™s dreamin.


Busy-Seat2909

Love the reference!


LetFrequent5194

Always use an agent, the alternative is wasting everyone's time and/or losing money.


v306

The first thing an agent would have done is tell him he's not realistic about the price...


catnat

Agree, he has wasted over 12 months trying to sell his property. Such a clown.


kirbyislove

To be fair most agents are fucking useless, its just this guy was also deluded. Get an independent valuation for starters.


AdFew1197

Real estate agents are not salesmen or women, they are merely a middle man that completes a transaction - unless you are a buyers agent, when has anyone in their life ever purchased a home solely due to the agent. You want the house, they have it listed - simple. Merely a negotiator. They are like the Coles/woolworths of houses which everyone needs and then call themselves sales superstars šŸ˜‚ jog on bell ends, buy another Bavarian money waster


biggusdicdus

I agree with his comment questioning the need for REAs. When I come across a house advertised by an owner, I always default to the assumption that it will be overpriced, I donā€™t know why. Itā€™s like they got the agents in and disagreed with there price evaluation. Selling your own property should be normalised itā€™s not hard. I would love to see REA go out of business!!!


Swuzzlebubble

So this guy who thinks he can advertise for 1.8m ("because that's what I'll take") is competing against all the similar places being listed at 1.5m . When an agent pitches and says they'd advertise at 1.5 it's natural to think they are underselling but for all their faults they know how to get buyers interested (usually)


BustedWing

Itā€™s not hard to do but this guy couldnā€™t do it


biggusdicdus

Itā€™s hard if youā€™re trying to get 3-400k over market value. But anyone could sell at market rate in this market. Iā€™m 100% sure I could sell my house at market rate within 2 weeks. And it would consume less than 40 hours of my time, probably 30 hours.


BustedWing

This guy was 100% convinced too. Maybe youā€™re right, maybe youā€™re wrong. The good news is youā€™re free to give it a crack. No one is forced to use agents.


FamousPastWords

Also, offer him market price LESS whatever the agent would have charged him in commission. After all that was what he's saved. May as well try and claim that savings.


nzoasisfan

To be fair Brunswick is a hot spot for property, for those of you who attend auctions regularly like myself (just for fun to keep finger on pulse) you'll see these selling week in and week out at comparable (not the same) prices. Brunswick is an awesome place to live I miss it alot, so much fun especially for a young single person and very close to the city with great transport in and out.


MunnyMagic

So it's even worse that he couldn't get it sold within a year


nzoasisfan

Yea bit of greed taking place here or perhaps some other factors we don't know about publicly


sjdando

Eventually we will have Uber for selling houses, although quite a few have tried.


PhilodendronPhanatic

Itā€™s a shame he didnā€™t do more research on price and set a realistic price point. I really wanted him to succeed and start a movement.


aminormalorweird

Agreed. I thought he was going to get their eventually but took a year to move on price


Lady_Rainycorn

The fact that he says he did his own electrical work worried me


Illustrious-Idea9150

Real Estate Agents may not always be necessary, but the good ones certainly are.


calijays

Lmfao what a bs article