We haven't got a payrise in 15 years above inflation.
We justified it with our worth to the health system, and have been given some major responsibilities that has changed the very fabric of what we do and considerable risk doing so. An ambulance is kinda like a mobile resuscitation room in the emergency department these days - we bring the ED to the patient. But we also flick the low acuity patients (who would be better suited for a GP), to their GP. This adds risk requiring extensive knowledge.
This involved changing from an ambulance driver to a registered health clinician, treating and leaving patients at home, additional 40-50 medications, we diagnose/treat heart attacks with thrombolysis. We also have specialists paramedics, recent removal of protocols into clinical practice guidelines. We also need degrees these days - otherwise you can't join.
Finally, they brought us up inline with QLD Paramedics rate of pay - we were the lowest paid in the entire country thanks to the previous government.
If you can justify your position description changing into a completely different job with huge risk/responsibily, i'd encourage you to speak to your union.
I know an ACT ambo, and was already aware that NSW was the lowest paid in the country. I suspect that if they did not do something to pay NSW ambos better, they would be having huge staffing problems.
And yes, it does need a degree these days. And there will be exams post degree, while serving as a cadet ambo where the pass mark is 80%.
They already do have a staffing problem. Paramedics are going north to Queensland, and south to Victoria. The ones that stay are saddled with tons of overtime to fill the gaps.
All well and good until it leads to early burnout or mistakes happen due to fatigue.
There’s no shortage of paramedics. There’s literally hundreds of grads every year that can’t find positions. I have nothing against them getting pay rises but I don’t think public servants are being unreasonable to expect their pay to at least keep up with inflation
Considering NSW had to recently recruit from the street like old times because there wasn't enough paramedics from the tertiary sector makes that not true.
There has been a massive recruitment of paramedics around the country. They aren't pushing out enough from universities currently.
Oh yeah no there was about to be a huge loss of ambos. In the last 6 months approx 500 have left, either to better paying states or completely left the industry; many of those being the experienced seasoned paramedics, leaving first years and new staff dealing with massive emergencies they've never faced, solo or with a staff member fresh out of school. It was estimated that 500 to thousands of EMTs were going to leave the industry in NSW within the next 6 months if pay and conditions weren't improved. And that's fair fuckin enough.
Totally agree. I was also under the impression that the number of applications for the grad cadet positions was down this year (at least for the ACT), which may make things even worse. When I first heard this, I couldn’t quite make sense of it, given that the ACT pays well. Then I started to think that the lockdowns during Covid may have stopped people from starting their degrees, and that has kept the number of graduates down.
I know Australia used to have more paramedic graduates than what they could employ, and the UK was poaching Australians by sending recruiters to Australia. But that was over 5 years ago.
Another thing that could just possibly cause a few to leave paramedicine is that those who dual qualified in nursing and paramedicine have issues with needing to work a certain number of hours in both to maintain both of their registrations. I heard that there were moves afoot to allow the hours worked as a paramedic to count for the nursing registration, but I don’t think that has happened. Don’t quote me on any of this. This is just me putting comments together from a number of conversations over many months.
I don't think it's helpful to compare what one group does to another group, as I know personally I couldn't do what you do, but your points about not having an above CPI payrise in 15 years and being lower paid compared to other states also apply to the APS.
My comment wasn't specifically aimed at comparing what paramedics do vs other public service workers and I am not sure where I compared what APS do vs paramedics in my comment.
My post was aimed at the extensive role change in 15 years with no renumeration:
- Changed job description to paramedics
- National Registration
- Low pay vs other states
- 40-50 additonal medications
- Vastly increased scope of practice and skillset including discharge at home
- Degree only entry
- Increased risk and responsibility
are there %age stats on improved survival rates after this approach introduced?
This approach seems very 'heavy', it is not surprising there are issues funding, i am curious how much of an improvement in survival / outcome / availability of ambulance rates ?
Not aware of any high quality studies within an ambulance system, but per UpToDate.
> Fibrinolytic (ie, thrombolytic) therapy, when administered within the first several hours after symptom onset, is capable of reestablishing antegrade coronary artery blood flow in nearly 75 percent of patients with STEMI. The restoration of myocardial blood flow is key to improving cardiovascular outcomes. The benefit of fibrinolytic therapy declines rapidly as the time from onset of symptoms to therapy increases beyond three hours. After 12 hours, the risk may exceed the benefit. (See 'Timing' below.)
> All fibrinolytic agents, compared with placebo, reduce mortality in acute STEMI. The magnitude of reduction in risk of death in randomized trials is generally between 15 and 30 percent. The trials supporting this conclusion are described in detail elsewhere. (See "Acute ST-elevation myocardial infarction: Selecting a reperfusion strategy".)
> Streptokinase was the first intravenous agent in which a mortality benefit, when compared with placebo, was demonstrated [1]. Subsequently, alteplase, reteplase, and tenecteplase (by comparison with alteplase) were shown to have similar or better clinical outcomes compared with streptokinase [2,3].
We essentially do it if we are over an hour away from a cardiac centre with a heart attack patient. The best thing for them is surgery which has the greatest benefit. Not everyone lives within 60 minutes of a cardiac hospital which is where these medications come into play.
are there other ambos as well doing that?
...although maybe question should be how many times per month are mobile hospital ambulances improving patient outcomes from a really bad to dead situation to something better when compared to the old 'take them back to hospital for that stuff' approach (ie its not just cardiac stuff the ambos do (?))
In my town the other crews report about the same number. On my station we used 11 Doses of Metalyse last 2 months.
My mate who works south and in a much smaller regional centre does atleast one a month.
I maybe over represented based on my Larger amount of OT and Being an Intensive Care Paramedic who gets attached as an assistant
I'm amazed by the number of people who have clearly not read past the title!
I have no issue whatsoever with you guys finally getting a pay rise that you're happy with.
My issue is with all the politicians who are telling the world how wonderful they are for "giving" you this pay rise, citing CPI as a contributing factor to why you deserve it, then giving themselves a pay rise using similar cost of living arguments, but when it comes to the APS, they turn around and say we're insane for asking for 5% p.a...
> I'm amazed by the number of people who have clearly not read past the title!
I did read past the title and came to the same conclusion.
For example, you're comparing the paramedics' pay rise to what the Australian Public Service Commission (APSC) has offered the Australian Public Service (APS).
Your message basically reflects a sense of injustice and frustration over the perceived disparities in pay increases between different public sector workers, including paramedics, other public service workers, and politicians. You feel that the unions and the government could have done a better job in ensuring fairer pay increases across the board.
Hence, I gave you a reason why we were paid what we were. If you meant it in another way, it should have been worded differently.
Thank you.
That is a big responsibility considering you have to make a quick decision & some of these drugs could make patients symptoms even worse, or even cause bleeding somewhere else.
> Thank you. That is a big responsibility considering you have to make a quick decision & some of these drugs could make patients symptoms even worse, or even cause bleeding somewhere else.
Yeah I believe the risk of a life threatening adverse outcome is around 4-5% with this medication. But the benefits outweighs the risks unless they are contraindicated. I guess death is the mostly the outcome if they were not to receive it. Realistically, they need a cath lab.
Indeed, I just read an article and yes studies show receiving medication increases their survival rate. It happens they get secondary heart attack after ballooning and stenting
Wait until after the 4% pay rise happens, you can bet that the SES will receive a pay rise AND it will be backdated. Who wants to take me up on that bet?
SES payrises are already being handed out. I know someone that got an $18k one a few weeks ago. I think it's timed with their anniversary of appointment so they don't all happen at once but could be very wrong about that
That’s interesting, most places I’ve worked they have all had their increment increases and pay rises all adjusted on the same date. At my Department I am hearing rumours that the increase is agreed, but it won’t be announced until after the regular plebs get theirs. Though it will be backdated. So even if we get out increase in March 2024, the SES will receive theirs backdated to December 2023..
Individual contracts? I mean perhaps 🤷🏻♂️. But they are very much a standard contract, and have a separate SES Handbook, much like an EA that helps to outline their conditions….
Band 3 salaries are individually negotiated, but Band 1 and 2’s generally fall onto the SES salary scales.
Yes the pay is very dependent on the role and the individual. The bands are also very wide with one for base remuneration and another for total remuneration.
Paramedics have far more bargaining power than pretty much any other public servants due to the nature of their work and the extensive training needed, and are highly unionised, so are difficult to compare to the rank and file of the public service.
The NSW public service as a whole got a one year 4.5 percent increase: https://www.nsw.gov.au/media-releases/end-of-former-governments-wages-cap-delivers-for-essential-public-sector-workers Note that this was a one off, and will need to be settled for future years.
Let’s be real, there’s also an optics element to giving police/paramedics/teachers etc pay rises vs public servant “paper pushers” where we’re just expected to be grateful to have a job
Yes, that's right. The police and paramedics and fire fighters have lots of bargaining power as a result, and good on them for being highly unionised and getting relatively good deals as a result of their leverage and willingness to use it. Teachers and nurses are also highly unionised, but don't seem to get such good outcomes.
I mean the frontline ambulance service isn’t full of bureaucrats who make positions to justify more positions. Paramedics have horrible career progression, majority of them have uni degrees and most of them will never move beyond the rank of paramedic, an entry level position. These people study for 3-6 years, do a 1.5 year internship and finally get put on road to do on of the most traumatic jobs all the while being over worked and understaffed. If anything they should be upset that APS members get paid as much as they do to do work that negligibly contributes any good to the Australian public. How many EL2’s just get their EL1 to do the majority of their job and they just give the final approval, and that person is on $150k a year. It’s a joke
*edit didn’t even mention the retention rate is horrendous that most paramedics quit before 10 years because the conditions are so rough
I know several, I also know Firies, cops, nurses and those who serve in the armed forces. All of which deserve to be paid what CEO's of multi nationals are paid. I'm not pissed about their pay rise, I'm pissed about politicians spruiking how wonderful they are for "giving" or to Ambos, saying how their previous offers were woefully inadequate and siting CPI as one measure as to why, then turning around and telling APS staff to deal with CPI and accept the offer they've offered or else... All the while giving themselves a larger pay increase than APS staff are asking for...
I'm guessing though thst you didn't read past the title like the rest of the Helen Lovejoys commenting from their high horses!
Leverage. People actually care about front line workers. They don't care about faceless bureaucrats in cubicles around the country. If Ambos strike, it's a PR disaster and they'll have plenty of support. If a bunch of average public servants strike, they'll be considered as ungrateful, entitled pencil pushers.
The fact that that isn't actually what public servants are, doesn't really matter to the government and the public. The CPSU simply doesn't have the same leverage as front line workers like Ambos and so you're trying to compare apples & oranges.
I grew up in Canberra and, while I have never worked APS, almost my whole family and most of my childhood friends are lifetime public service.
I know perfectly well that most public servants actually aren't pointless pencil pushers, just as you acknowledge, but I also know what the jobs they do are.
Paramedics should be paid more than most APS. They just should. They do an incredibly stressful, demanding job, and if they don't do it very very well people die. Even though most APS staff do much more than the public recognises or appreciates, very few of them do that kind of work or face those kind of stresses.
Asking the question
>how on earth do they justify the disparity between the offer and what the APSC has offered the APS?
shows that you don’t get it
Nobody has to justify this because there are light years between what an ambo does and what you do. Their situation is not comparable in any way to your situation.
Thinking it is comparable just makes it look like you’re wildly out of touch with what’s involved in working in emergency services
My guy I've had a paramedic literally come to my house and get my heart to start beating again. Do you really think that your work is in anyway comparable to people who's job is to literally keeping people from dying, they directly save lives. I'm not saying that You probably aren't underpaid (most people are) but they are just completely different jobs.
I dunno why I get these Australian Public Service posts suggested to me but clicked on this one. I'm pretty sure the consensus is paramedics saves lives and are placed at risk of bodily harm, and deserve every pay raise but as far as I know, the impression for government workers is that they have cushy jobs, can't be fired, high super but are ineffectualand inefficient. Just had a look at available roles for on APS and all the roles sound like bureaucratic nonsense.
Um, where are they working? Some of us do massive amounts of over time, and in state gov have very insecure work. Def depends on your department/ agency.
Everyone deserves an actual pay rise to keep up with COI, otherwise let’s not call it a pay rise at all.
In any case, I’m so happy for the ambos. That is a job most of us could not do and it is absolutely crucial to society. They save lives, are routinely at traumatic scenes, are abused by people they try to help and have life long impacts from the work they do. They lose people too as much as they try to save them.
Public servants also suffer trauma in toxic workplaces but it’s not comparable in the main. And it shouldn’t be compared anyway.
Mostly, as the workers we should all support each other for better pay and conditions so we can go back to the “lucky country”, although I note some irony with this and I know that’s never been equitable.
Basically, good on the ambos and pay rises for all please! Not the seals though 😜
I've had entire jobs in the public service where it was just googling things. Each list was about 5000 items long and each item had to be googled individually... it it's an interesting but tedious job and just endless - i was covid redeployed to it as well.
I mean i worked private and i just said F this private is very much a different game and i'm not willing to suck up to people to get promoted, while also working very hard. It only takes one or two people who take the piss suck up to managment get a promotion ahead of you to realise even private isn't all sunshine and lollipops. I've ended up contracting. If i work i get paid, if i don't work i don't get paid. Its very simple, I take 6-8 weeks leave a year and travel, I have no debts now and i'm well aware of the risks (ie this year i had 7 weeks of no work while waiting for contract renewals/new contracts). Of course i work side by side with public servants and some have no idea how good they have it. I've worked in both the low paid and high paid agencies and departments. Its a s mixed bag, but when i was in private, we weren't beiung handed out payrises like the public service regularly got. I had to often quit a job and find a higher paying one.
I did unskilled manual labour at mine sites for only a tiny bit less.
Still not worth it doing the FIFO thing, and I'd argue that sitting on your arse in the middle of nowhere is pay progression, not career progression.
> They can join mine sites as ESOs get paid 150 to 170k .
ESO's are cert IV trained in rescue to assist the paramedic, paramedic's aren't ESO's and are different again.
When I did it, we were paid 120k a year - that involved me flying over from the Eastern states.
Most paramedics don't reach 5 years.
I think I'm Victoria, the average career was 3-5 years.
If you haven't trained in a dual degree (eg nursing) chance are, you're back at square one once you leave as options are very limited.
From what I've seen the difference is that the ambos were willing to take industrial action and the APS staff were not.
Some of the best career advice I ever got (which I resented the hell out of at the time) was essentially "if you think you're underpaid here, then go apply for roles that pay what you think you should be earning". I'm in the NSW public sector, but as long as APS staff are happy to keep working for the current wages and agencies don't have too much trouble recruiting you can't really expect your employer to just give you all more money out of the goodness fo their hearts.
One of the most important things in life is to remember that someone getting something generally does not take something from you.
Except maybe comparison being the thief of joy.
I'm a contractor, so sitting in my ivory tower of not caring about this stuff, but I do feel good news for Ambos is a good thing overall. Let's not begrudge them that raise when we know what they go through day to day.
Paramedics provide more value to society and work a more high risk dangerous dangerous position than an APS role requiring a degree plus multiple years training.
The difference is paramedics have mad leverage. What are you gonna do if on the busiest day of the year for paramedics you suddenly have none registered. People NEED paramedics, they are crucial to the healthcare system and society as a whole and we all know it.It's a smart idea and one I hope the nurses union will adopt. This wishy washy shit of 4% wage rise last year was pretty insulting really.
Not saying the public service doesn't do important work, it's just not super specific and visible so it's hard to really leverage that.
>Under the new deal, paramedics with six years of experience will go from a yearly salary of $79,737 to $103,361 over four years, while critical care paramedic salaries will jump from $98,391 to $127,261 in that time.
Looks like they were underpaid
Very much so, critical care paramedics especially. They take on medicolegal responsibility for some fairly advanced procedures and high risk transfers. They deserve every dollar.
Ambos have repeatedly demonstrated they are willing to take action. Their percentage of union members is very high. Compared to federal public service where most people freeride off the union members and wouldn't take strike action for even an hour.
No good argument ever won a pay rise, people on the ground have to be willing to take action.
Oh absolutely! NSW Ambos (the members themselves) have done an amazing job in building broad support and proving that they will take action to achieve their goals. It's been a great campaign to watch and I'm thrilled it's paid off for them.
All public sector union members could learn a lot from the commitment and timing of their campaigns.
Thank you. That was what I was unclear of because it initially read that the paramedics were cowardly fuckers and I was confused how that could be a takeaway.
Australia runs on volunteers, tens of thousands in WA alone. The work they do is not recognised enough.
That said, career personnel in all emergency services, and the public sector attached, are getting further and further behind each year. WA in particular had pay rises capped at $1000 for several years in a row, and even in the current financial climate it's only been a 3% rise.
Every union involved has come up short in negotiations - the CPSU in particular -, and it's only going to be a matter of time before conditions in the private sector outstrip the public sector by a margin that's too wide to ignore.
WA is an anamoly for Australia as they are a privately run business. They are still paid better than NSW paramedics currently. Though in saying that, there are so many volunteers in WA, a crazy amount who do this for free. The public should actually be given trained professionals.
NSW has been on efficiency dividends for well over a decade. It's more than a generation of workers who have had to make more from less. Hiring freezes and EDs combined decimated the public service to the point of utter dysfunction. Resent labour firms and consultants before focusing on unionised first responders.
Most people I spoke to accepted the offer. For me I wasn't sure so I didn't voted no on the first offer, (which was increased from 10.5 to 11.2), didn't vote on the second and voted to accept the third.
The votes of the election run by the AEC show Melissa Donnelly received about twice the votes than Will Mumford. Which is similar to what the vote to accept the offer. So I think you are off base with your claim as I would hope you don't have an issue with the AEC run election.
While the pay offer wasn't great, there were substantial increases in conditions. And the catch up mechanism means some agencies are getting substantial increases.
Everyone hoped to get a better offer. People I spoke to had gone through the experience in previous rounds of holding out years for a better pay offer and not getting it. You need to consider how this led people to vote.
Because of the CPSU we got an increased offer and a 1 off payment. If you use your energy and focus on what was won and encourage others to join. A bigger stronger united union means we will be in an even better position next time.
Mate your agency is probably higher up on the pay list. Unfortunately this is a good deal for some agencies and the bargaining is for the whole APS and possibly there was more voting down that way?
I was a 'no' voter.
What these sneaky cunts did was to outsource it, so it is not the politicians who give themselves their pay rises and about the ONLY fucking issue these parasites are bipartisan on.
They don’t give themselves pay rises. The Renumeration Tribunal determines their wages, as well as those of a range of other senior roles across government.
I know this will get downvoted but if you don’t like your salary in the PS you should leave and work in the private sector for a higher salary. That’s the only real way to put pressure on the government to pay a real living wage. I left 10 years ago and now my salary is nearly triple what I was on back then.
Perhaps tell us why you and everyone else in the APS is deserving of the same pay rise that paramedics just got? They are a small group who have specialist skills and this pay rise was needed to manage what could have been a major catastrophe otherwise.
Makes me sad reading some of the comments on this thread .
Ambos are the most overworked and underpaid part of the health industry, the burnout rate and work conditions are horrific.
Pay them, a fair bit more than inflation. Case closed.
why are you letting yourself be affected in a negative way by a positive thing in someones life? It literally does not effect you
They arent thinking about you
But you cant help to think about them
Move on
I’m gonna sounds like a conspiracy theorist but:
DO NOT BUY INTO THIS ARGUMENT. Workers being pit against and fighting other workers is what they want you to do. This is not an either or situation. Just because they got a good deal does not mean they are more or less deserving than you.
Fight the people who make the decisions, talk to your coworkers about their union membership and if they’d actually be willing to strike. Do not take it out on the people who are more or less in the same position as you.
I think you missed the point of my post if you think that's what I'm saying... We asked for 5% p.a to cover CPI... Labor government scoffs and says that's too much... Then signs off on their own 5% payrise after an INDEPENDENT remuneration panel says that's the minimum requirement to keep up with CPI... Then these same Labor Federal members are all over social media spruiking "their" win for Paramedics after 12 years of "oppression" by former governments...
It's like Oprah is handing out pay rises that cover CPI, but skipping anyone in the crowd who won't look good in the promo!
I get that's how politics works, I get that Paramedics deserve 10 times the wage they're getting, as do nurses, police, armed forces etc, but the hypocrisy of it makes me so angry!
Again, read something beyond the title, champ.
I said the Ambos deserved what they got, and more. I never said that APS employees were more deserving of a pay rise than anyone else.
I was simply highlighting the hypocrisy of Politicians saying "Aren't we wonderful? We've secured at 25% pay increase for Ambos" but when other public servants ask for a pay increase thst simply keeps up with CPI, we're unreasonable. Meanwhile those same politicians give themselves a pay rise that keeps up with CPI...
As for your "paramedics are worth 5 of you" BS, whatever mate, back under your bridge!
Mate, I read your full post and nowhere does it say you think the ambos deserve it, or highlight hypocrisy. You cry about the disparity between their offer and the APS offer, and feel ‘betrayed’…
Front line and emergency service workers are worth way more than 5 of you, and your attitude of false superiority is what makes the APS environment the backwards bureaucracy it is.
Their first sentence literally says that they deserve every cent they get and should get even more.
The lack of reading comprehension skills in evidence here is astounding! Did you all drop out of school midway through primary school?
And that reply shows the reasons that the APS needs a major cultural overhaul.
Your claims ÿour job in the APS keeping millions of Australians out of homelessness and ensures they can put food on the table" highlights your inflated ego and sense of importance.
Perhaps take a break your mummy patting you on the back for being her little hero and go work on the frontline with those poeple you claim to 'save'.
State vs federal...different set of pollies.
And if you want a better pay rise, join the union, get everyone else to join too, then all of you need to be willing to put your arses on the line and strike.
Without real skin in the game, the willingness to put it all on the line, and the solidarity to stand firm, you'll get jack shit.
If you're a bunch of pussies, you're gonna get fucked...
Private sector - Haven't had a payrise bar a 1.8% mandatory in 2022 since 2017. Don't get bumped up super - just mandated 11% , don't get flex, don't get a day off a year just because - don't have a union - don't even have an award to lean on.
I find it hard to actually have any kind of feelings to public service anger TBH. 😕 I'd love a job in the PS but unless you know someone it appears to be a bit of a magic trick to land one. Outside looking in the grass def looks greener. Sorry.
Paramedics are over 90% unionised. Public servants are about 20-25% unionised. It makes a huge difference in bargaining power.
Having the density numbers and working in union collectively (which sometimes includes taking industrial action but sometimes doesn’t) makes a difference to the outcomes you can achieve. Surprise surprise. This is what those that denigrate the union (like Members United) don’t understand - solidarity means not always agreeing but standing together anyway.
Plus, as demonstrated by the votes and the election - most people are happy with the offers and outcomes. It’s not just all about the headline percentages. Tens of thousands of workers are receiving much more because of the massive condition improvements, the closing of the pay fragmentation (lowest paid agencies are getting 20ish percent increases, even some levels within mid tiered agencies are getting increases), and getting allowances back which means thousands more in their pockets every year.
Also, paramedics are literally saving lives - their work is incredibly important. Why begrudge them a pay rise?
You Whiney fuck.
When was the last time your job had you making a difference instead of going from tea break to tea break, collecting 15% super contributions with essentially unlimited leave and zero threat of personal violence during the course of your day?
About time NSW Paramedics were given what they deserved - they were leaving NSW because of the enormous disparity between what they earned and what they could earn in other states. Who can blame them. Their day consists of real service, yours consists of Arnott’s biscuits service
My job in the APS keeps millions of Australians out of homelessness and ensures they can put food on the table. While it's not as important as Ambos and Cops, it's still pretty bloody important! Also, we haven't had Arnotts Biscuits provided (or even milk for the coffee you'd dunk them in) for the better part of a decade.
I think you'd be surprised how much the APS does for Australia if you actually took a step back and actually used your brain for a change.
For example, the money collected by the Public Servants gets allocated back to the States by Public Servants so that Ambos can be paid. Millions of Australians rely on the work of Public Servants to pay their bills, have a place to live. We process paperwork that allow Doctors to treat patients at no cost. We protect Australian flora and fauna from introduced pests that could wipe them out. Hell even Video streaming and gaming would grind to a halt if the right public servants went on strike.
Instead, our toothless coward infested union sells us up the river to curry favour with the Labor Party. The same Labor party whose politicians are now crapping on incessantly about the great deal "they" gave Ambos despite a decade of oppression by Coalition governments.
I'm with the OP, more power to Ambos and First Responders in general, they should be paid double what they are now. But the rising cost of living is being acknowledged by the Private sector and pay rises are being given accordingly, it's being acknowledged by State Governments and pay rises are being given accordingly, but this falls on deaf ears at the APSC and the Government.
I’m not referring to a specific amount, more so the difference in day to day tasks; this is relating to the consistently high danger and traumatic job in comparison to the low danger and consistent routine tasks of an office job.
Thankfully, none. My job doesn’t involve handling the deceased, and if it did I would then also be picketing for a better wage. Or searching for work in another industry/sector that is relative or higher than the increase given.
I hope you're being sarcastic... Personally, I could take my skills and earn significantly more in the private sector, however I don't because I have the stupid notion that by working in the APS, I'm contributing to society something beyond paying the absolute minimum tax I can get away with... I'm happy to take a hit for this, as well as the job security an APS job offers, but I fail to see how this equates to us accepting a pay offer that doesn't even cover inflation!
Congratulations to the NSW ambos! As for us in the APS it is more than just the money. The lower paid agencies are getting extra to reduce the pay disparity within levels. There is also the increase to maternity and paternity leave up to 18 weeks. And finally, the majority of CPSU members did not see the value in taking protected industrial action to push the point.
Of course it will all boil down to the final votes within the agencies.
Good on NSW Ambulance service, well deserved and damn hard fought.
To the people saying it came down to NSW Ambulance being willing to take industrial action while others weren't, it's not always that simple.
NSW Police attempted to take Industrial Action and the Industrial Relations Commission told the NSW Police union to stop, warning it would block a pay claim if action continued.
So willingness to take industrial action doesn't really count for much when you get pressured into stopping.
That's how we ended up stuck with a ridiculous pay offer below inflation while the pollies made sure they were given egregious pay increases for taking money away from front line workers.
Again, awesome win for the Ambos!
As an ambo frequent flyer, they deserve every cent and more.
We undervalue our essential services significantly and it isn't until it directly impacts us that we recognise how foolhardy this is.
Well trained and properly resourced paramedics save the health budget a fortune by reducing non-essential ED admissions, so there isn't even a decent fiscal argument for why this was put off for so long, except that successive Governments haven't had the forsight to plan ahead.
> They must have cooked the books, surely?!
Doesn’t the AEC run the vote? Or is that just to elect the union itself?
Either way conspiracy theories aren’t going to help you. Fact is the membership did not have an appetite for industrial action, and even the first vote was a slim approval for the deal that the union themselves overturned.
Work one day in their shoes and then decide whether you think they're paid enough. These people put up with so much just to try to help people as well as saving lives.
Easy as. Not hard to get in the Ambos at all. 24/7 roster. 365. Blood guts death disaster. All before 11am some days. Never gonna see past 20 years service without being totally fucked in the head. Go on. Join. I dare ya.
The members voted up the last offer and it was the leadership that said no. Why are you confused this one passed give the leadership endorsed this one.
that's nothing.
i have seen contractors working in govt agencies that get $1k to $2k/daily rate and they worked for years without any pressure from management to convert to perm staff.
When I contracted for the government, I would have had to half my pay to go perm.
They tried to hire perms instead after a reorganisation. 0 applications to the position.
If you have a sought-after skill, you don't work for APS. You contract. If you are not sought after, you have no leverage.
Hello, it looks like you've made a mistake.
It's supposed to be could've, should've, would've (short for could have, would have, should have), never could of, would of, should of.
Or you misspelled something, I ain't checking everything.
Beep boop - yes, I am a bot, don't botcriminate me.
We haven't got a payrise in 15 years above inflation. We justified it with our worth to the health system, and have been given some major responsibilities that has changed the very fabric of what we do and considerable risk doing so. An ambulance is kinda like a mobile resuscitation room in the emergency department these days - we bring the ED to the patient. But we also flick the low acuity patients (who would be better suited for a GP), to their GP. This adds risk requiring extensive knowledge. This involved changing from an ambulance driver to a registered health clinician, treating and leaving patients at home, additional 40-50 medications, we diagnose/treat heart attacks with thrombolysis. We also have specialists paramedics, recent removal of protocols into clinical practice guidelines. We also need degrees these days - otherwise you can't join. Finally, they brought us up inline with QLD Paramedics rate of pay - we were the lowest paid in the entire country thanks to the previous government. If you can justify your position description changing into a completely different job with huge risk/responsibily, i'd encourage you to speak to your union.
I know an ACT ambo, and was already aware that NSW was the lowest paid in the country. I suspect that if they did not do something to pay NSW ambos better, they would be having huge staffing problems. And yes, it does need a degree these days. And there will be exams post degree, while serving as a cadet ambo where the pass mark is 80%.
They already do have a staffing problem. Paramedics are going north to Queensland, and south to Victoria. The ones that stay are saddled with tons of overtime to fill the gaps. All well and good until it leads to early burnout or mistakes happen due to fatigue.
I genuinely don’t understand how Eastern Sydney will survive, you can’t live off a paramedics salary let alone worse paid but essential workers
There’s no shortage of paramedics. There’s literally hundreds of grads every year that can’t find positions. I have nothing against them getting pay rises but I don’t think public servants are being unreasonable to expect their pay to at least keep up with inflation
Considering NSW had to recently recruit from the street like old times because there wasn't enough paramedics from the tertiary sector makes that not true. There has been a massive recruitment of paramedics around the country. They aren't pushing out enough from universities currently.
Oh yeah no there was about to be a huge loss of ambos. In the last 6 months approx 500 have left, either to better paying states or completely left the industry; many of those being the experienced seasoned paramedics, leaving first years and new staff dealing with massive emergencies they've never faced, solo or with a staff member fresh out of school. It was estimated that 500 to thousands of EMTs were going to leave the industry in NSW within the next 6 months if pay and conditions weren't improved. And that's fair fuckin enough.
Totally agree. I was also under the impression that the number of applications for the grad cadet positions was down this year (at least for the ACT), which may make things even worse. When I first heard this, I couldn’t quite make sense of it, given that the ACT pays well. Then I started to think that the lockdowns during Covid may have stopped people from starting their degrees, and that has kept the number of graduates down. I know Australia used to have more paramedic graduates than what they could employ, and the UK was poaching Australians by sending recruiters to Australia. But that was over 5 years ago. Another thing that could just possibly cause a few to leave paramedicine is that those who dual qualified in nursing and paramedicine have issues with needing to work a certain number of hours in both to maintain both of their registrations. I heard that there were moves afoot to allow the hours worked as a paramedic to count for the nursing registration, but I don’t think that has happened. Don’t quote me on any of this. This is just me putting comments together from a number of conversations over many months.
I don't think it's helpful to compare what one group does to another group, as I know personally I couldn't do what you do, but your points about not having an above CPI payrise in 15 years and being lower paid compared to other states also apply to the APS.
My comment wasn't specifically aimed at comparing what paramedics do vs other public service workers and I am not sure where I compared what APS do vs paramedics in my comment. My post was aimed at the extensive role change in 15 years with no renumeration: - Changed job description to paramedics - National Registration - Low pay vs other states - 40-50 additonal medications - Vastly increased scope of practice and skillset including discharge at home - Degree only entry - Increased risk and responsibility
are there %age stats on improved survival rates after this approach introduced? This approach seems very 'heavy', it is not surprising there are issues funding, i am curious how much of an improvement in survival / outcome / availability of ambulance rates ?
Not aware of any high quality studies within an ambulance system, but per UpToDate. > Fibrinolytic (ie, thrombolytic) therapy, when administered within the first several hours after symptom onset, is capable of reestablishing antegrade coronary artery blood flow in nearly 75 percent of patients with STEMI. The restoration of myocardial blood flow is key to improving cardiovascular outcomes. The benefit of fibrinolytic therapy declines rapidly as the time from onset of symptoms to therapy increases beyond three hours. After 12 hours, the risk may exceed the benefit. (See 'Timing' below.) > All fibrinolytic agents, compared with placebo, reduce mortality in acute STEMI. The magnitude of reduction in risk of death in randomized trials is generally between 15 and 30 percent. The trials supporting this conclusion are described in detail elsewhere. (See "Acute ST-elevation myocardial infarction: Selecting a reperfusion strategy".) > Streptokinase was the first intravenous agent in which a mortality benefit, when compared with placebo, was demonstrated [1]. Subsequently, alteplase, reteplase, and tenecteplase (by comparison with alteplase) were shown to have similar or better clinical outcomes compared with streptokinase [2,3]. We essentially do it if we are over an hour away from a cardiac centre with a heart attack patient. The best thing for them is surgery which has the greatest benefit. Not everyone lives within 60 minutes of a cardiac hospital which is where these medications come into play.
how many times a month does that happen on average?
No idea, not privy to the data
i thought you worked there - i just mean roughly / anecdotally
I do about 3 A month from a large regional centre with no Cath lab
are there other ambos as well doing that? ...although maybe question should be how many times per month are mobile hospital ambulances improving patient outcomes from a really bad to dead situation to something better when compared to the old 'take them back to hospital for that stuff' approach (ie its not just cardiac stuff the ambos do (?))
In my town the other crews report about the same number. On my station we used 11 Doses of Metalyse last 2 months. My mate who works south and in a much smaller regional centre does atleast one a month. I maybe over represented based on my Larger amount of OT and Being an Intensive Care Paramedic who gets attached as an assistant
I'm amazed by the number of people who have clearly not read past the title! I have no issue whatsoever with you guys finally getting a pay rise that you're happy with. My issue is with all the politicians who are telling the world how wonderful they are for "giving" you this pay rise, citing CPI as a contributing factor to why you deserve it, then giving themselves a pay rise using similar cost of living arguments, but when it comes to the APS, they turn around and say we're insane for asking for 5% p.a...
Not having a go but it also feels like the industrial action work put in by paramedics themselves.
It's been ongoing since ~2018 roughly.
> I'm amazed by the number of people who have clearly not read past the title! I did read past the title and came to the same conclusion. For example, you're comparing the paramedics' pay rise to what the Australian Public Service Commission (APSC) has offered the Australian Public Service (APS). Your message basically reflects a sense of injustice and frustration over the perceived disparities in pay increases between different public sector workers, including paramedics, other public service workers, and politicians. You feel that the unions and the government could have done a better job in ensuring fairer pay increases across the board. Hence, I gave you a reason why we were paid what we were. If you meant it in another way, it should have been worded differently.
May I ask what thrombolysis medications do you use?
Tenecteplase, clopedigrel and enoxaparin
Thank you. That is a big responsibility considering you have to make a quick decision & some of these drugs could make patients symptoms even worse, or even cause bleeding somewhere else.
> Thank you. That is a big responsibility considering you have to make a quick decision & some of these drugs could make patients symptoms even worse, or even cause bleeding somewhere else. Yeah I believe the risk of a life threatening adverse outcome is around 4-5% with this medication. But the benefits outweighs the risks unless they are contraindicated. I guess death is the mostly the outcome if they were not to receive it. Realistically, they need a cath lab.
Indeed, I just read an article and yes studies show receiving medication increases their survival rate. It happens they get secondary heart attack after ballooning and stenting
Pretty much the entire NSW public sector has had their wages frozen for a while under the previous gov.
Wait until after the 4% pay rise happens, you can bet that the SES will receive a pay rise AND it will be backdated. Who wants to take me up on that bet?
SES payrises are already being handed out. I know someone that got an $18k one a few weeks ago. I think it's timed with their anniversary of appointment so they don't all happen at once but could be very wrong about that
That’s interesting, most places I’ve worked they have all had their increment increases and pay rises all adjusted on the same date. At my Department I am hearing rumours that the increase is agreed, but it won’t be announced until after the regular plebs get theirs. Though it will be backdated. So even if we get out increase in March 2024, the SES will receive theirs backdated to December 2023..
That's interesting because I've always assumed the entire aps ses arrangements were the same individual based.
Yeh that seems very strange because they’re on individual contracts.
Individual contracts? I mean perhaps 🤷🏻♂️. But they are very much a standard contract, and have a separate SES Handbook, much like an EA that helps to outline their conditions…. Band 3 salaries are individually negotiated, but Band 1 and 2’s generally fall onto the SES salary scales.
Yes the pay is very dependent on the role and the individual. The bands are also very wide with one for base remuneration and another for total remuneration.
What!?
I don't know all the details, just that I nearly fell off my chair thinking how much that would change my life.
You’d have to be an SES though
[удалено]
Source?
The SES pay rises are align3d with ours, and they are not too happy avlbout it.
Good on them. The pay for my colleagues in NSW was well below national standards. It's one of the hardest and most essential jobs that there is.
Agreed.
Paramedics have far more bargaining power than pretty much any other public servants due to the nature of their work and the extensive training needed, and are highly unionised, so are difficult to compare to the rank and file of the public service. The NSW public service as a whole got a one year 4.5 percent increase: https://www.nsw.gov.au/media-releases/end-of-former-governments-wages-cap-delivers-for-essential-public-sector-workers Note that this was a one off, and will need to be settled for future years.
Let’s be real, there’s also an optics element to giving police/paramedics/teachers etc pay rises vs public servant “paper pushers” where we’re just expected to be grateful to have a job
Yes, that's right. The police and paramedics and fire fighters have lots of bargaining power as a result, and good on them for being highly unionised and getting relatively good deals as a result of their leverage and willingness to use it. Teachers and nurses are also highly unionised, but don't seem to get such good outcomes.
I mean the frontline ambulance service isn’t full of bureaucrats who make positions to justify more positions. Paramedics have horrible career progression, majority of them have uni degrees and most of them will never move beyond the rank of paramedic, an entry level position. These people study for 3-6 years, do a 1.5 year internship and finally get put on road to do on of the most traumatic jobs all the while being over worked and understaffed. If anything they should be upset that APS members get paid as much as they do to do work that negligibly contributes any good to the Australian public. How many EL2’s just get their EL1 to do the majority of their job and they just give the final approval, and that person is on $150k a year. It’s a joke *edit didn’t even mention the retention rate is horrendous that most paramedics quit before 10 years because the conditions are so rough
Yeah this. Some of the comments in here are wild, surely nobody who knows a paramedic would have this mentality
I know several, I also know Firies, cops, nurses and those who serve in the armed forces. All of which deserve to be paid what CEO's of multi nationals are paid. I'm not pissed about their pay rise, I'm pissed about politicians spruiking how wonderful they are for "giving" or to Ambos, saying how their previous offers were woefully inadequate and siting CPI as one measure as to why, then turning around and telling APS staff to deal with CPI and accept the offer they've offered or else... All the while giving themselves a larger pay increase than APS staff are asking for... I'm guessing though thst you didn't read past the title like the rest of the Helen Lovejoys commenting from their high horses!
Leverage. People actually care about front line workers. They don't care about faceless bureaucrats in cubicles around the country. If Ambos strike, it's a PR disaster and they'll have plenty of support. If a bunch of average public servants strike, they'll be considered as ungrateful, entitled pencil pushers. The fact that that isn't actually what public servants are, doesn't really matter to the government and the public. The CPSU simply doesn't have the same leverage as front line workers like Ambos and so you're trying to compare apples & oranges.
I grew up in Canberra and, while I have never worked APS, almost my whole family and most of my childhood friends are lifetime public service. I know perfectly well that most public servants actually aren't pointless pencil pushers, just as you acknowledge, but I also know what the jobs they do are. Paramedics should be paid more than most APS. They just should. They do an incredibly stressful, demanding job, and if they don't do it very very well people die. Even though most APS staff do much more than the public recognises or appreciates, very few of them do that kind of work or face those kind of stresses.
Asking the question >how on earth do they justify the disparity between the offer and what the APSC has offered the APS? shows that you don’t get it Nobody has to justify this because there are light years between what an ambo does and what you do. Their situation is not comparable in any way to your situation. Thinking it is comparable just makes it look like you’re wildly out of touch with what’s involved in working in emergency services
APS staff are easily replaceable, ambos are not. Simple.
My guy I've had a paramedic literally come to my house and get my heart to start beating again. Do you really think that your work is in anyway comparable to people who's job is to literally keeping people from dying, they directly save lives. I'm not saying that You probably aren't underpaid (most people are) but they are just completely different jobs.
Most quit because the culture is toxic.
I dunno why I get these Australian Public Service posts suggested to me but clicked on this one. I'm pretty sure the consensus is paramedics saves lives and are placed at risk of bodily harm, and deserve every pay raise but as far as I know, the impression for government workers is that they have cushy jobs, can't be fired, high super but are ineffectualand inefficient. Just had a look at available roles for on APS and all the roles sound like bureaucratic nonsense.
[удалено]
Um, where are they working? Some of us do massive amounts of over time, and in state gov have very insecure work. Def depends on your department/ agency. Everyone deserves an actual pay rise to keep up with COI, otherwise let’s not call it a pay rise at all. In any case, I’m so happy for the ambos. That is a job most of us could not do and it is absolutely crucial to society. They save lives, are routinely at traumatic scenes, are abused by people they try to help and have life long impacts from the work they do. They lose people too as much as they try to save them. Public servants also suffer trauma in toxic workplaces but it’s not comparable in the main. And it shouldn’t be compared anyway. Mostly, as the workers we should all support each other for better pay and conditions so we can go back to the “lucky country”, although I note some irony with this and I know that’s never been equitable. Basically, good on the ambos and pay rises for all please! Not the seals though 😜
[удалено]
I've had entire jobs in the public service where it was just googling things. Each list was about 5000 items long and each item had to be googled individually... it it's an interesting but tedious job and just endless - i was covid redeployed to it as well.
[удалено]
[удалено]
I mean i worked private and i just said F this private is very much a different game and i'm not willing to suck up to people to get promoted, while also working very hard. It only takes one or two people who take the piss suck up to managment get a promotion ahead of you to realise even private isn't all sunshine and lollipops. I've ended up contracting. If i work i get paid, if i don't work i don't get paid. Its very simple, I take 6-8 weeks leave a year and travel, I have no debts now and i'm well aware of the risks (ie this year i had 7 weeks of no work while waiting for contract renewals/new contracts). Of course i work side by side with public servants and some have no idea how good they have it. I've worked in both the low paid and high paid agencies and departments. Its a s mixed bag, but when i was in private, we weren't beiung handed out payrises like the public service regularly got. I had to often quit a job and find a higher paying one.
[удалено]
I did unskilled manual labour at mine sites for only a tiny bit less. Still not worth it doing the FIFO thing, and I'd argue that sitting on your arse in the middle of nowhere is pay progression, not career progression.
> They can join mine sites as ESOs get paid 150 to 170k . ESO's are cert IV trained in rescue to assist the paramedic, paramedic's aren't ESO's and are different again. When I did it, we were paid 120k a year - that involved me flying over from the Eastern states.
Very wrong
Most paramedics don't reach 5 years. I think I'm Victoria, the average career was 3-5 years. If you haven't trained in a dual degree (eg nursing) chance are, you're back at square one once you leave as options are very limited.
Wow just saw, that’s a massive pay rise. Good on them! Hope people realise more how much workers are worth.
Not angry at all about it. I'm happy for them.
Oath, they are heroes in every sense of the word.
From what I've seen the difference is that the ambos were willing to take industrial action and the APS staff were not. Some of the best career advice I ever got (which I resented the hell out of at the time) was essentially "if you think you're underpaid here, then go apply for roles that pay what you think you should be earning". I'm in the NSW public sector, but as long as APS staff are happy to keep working for the current wages and agencies don't have too much trouble recruiting you can't really expect your employer to just give you all more money out of the goodness fo their hearts.
One of the most important things in life is to remember that someone getting something generally does not take something from you. Except maybe comparison being the thief of joy.
I'm a contractor, so sitting in my ivory tower of not caring about this stuff, but I do feel good news for Ambos is a good thing overall. Let's not begrudge them that raise when we know what they go through day to day.
Paramedics provide more value to society and work a more high risk dangerous dangerous position than an APS role requiring a degree plus multiple years training.
The difference is paramedics have mad leverage. What are you gonna do if on the busiest day of the year for paramedics you suddenly have none registered. People NEED paramedics, they are crucial to the healthcare system and society as a whole and we all know it.It's a smart idea and one I hope the nurses union will adopt. This wishy washy shit of 4% wage rise last year was pretty insulting really. Not saying the public service doesn't do important work, it's just not super specific and visible so it's hard to really leverage that.
>Under the new deal, paramedics with six years of experience will go from a yearly salary of $79,737 to $103,361 over four years, while critical care paramedic salaries will jump from $98,391 to $127,261 in that time. Looks like they were underpaid
Very much so, critical care paramedics especially. They take on medicolegal responsibility for some fairly advanced procedures and high risk transfers. They deserve every dollar.
Ambos have repeatedly demonstrated they are willing to take action. Their percentage of union members is very high. Compared to federal public service where most people freeride off the union members and wouldn't take strike action for even an hour. No good argument ever won a pay rise, people on the ground have to be willing to take action.
We started action around 5 years ago lol
Oh absolutely! NSW Ambos (the members themselves) have done an amazing job in building broad support and proving that they will take action to achieve their goals. It's been a great campaign to watch and I'm thrilled it's paid off for them. All public sector union members could learn a lot from the commitment and timing of their campaigns.
[удалено]
I'm sorry, did you just call front line paramedics cowardly fuckers?
I think they're referring to CPSU members.
Thank you. That was what I was unclear of because it initially read that the paramedics were cowardly fuckers and I was confused how that could be a takeaway.
You are the personification of everything that's wrong with Reddit! Seriously, how was "He called Paramedics cowards" your take away from that post?!
*eyeroll* if clarifying part of what someone said is the worst you've seen on reddit, you've had a very sheltered PG rated experience.
Good they are getting paid. Ambos in country WA are mostly volunteers.
Australia runs on volunteers, tens of thousands in WA alone. The work they do is not recognised enough. That said, career personnel in all emergency services, and the public sector attached, are getting further and further behind each year. WA in particular had pay rises capped at $1000 for several years in a row, and even in the current financial climate it's only been a 3% rise. Every union involved has come up short in negotiations - the CPSU in particular -, and it's only going to be a matter of time before conditions in the private sector outstrip the public sector by a margin that's too wide to ignore.
WA is an anamoly for Australia as they are a privately run business. They are still paid better than NSW paramedics currently. Though in saying that, there are so many volunteers in WA, a crazy amount who do this for free. The public should actually be given trained professionals.
NSW has been on efficiency dividends for well over a decade. It's more than a generation of workers who have had to make more from less. Hiring freezes and EDs combined decimated the public service to the point of utter dysfunction. Resent labour firms and consultants before focusing on unionised first responders.
Class solidarity and union membership will get you everywhere. I’m not sure why you’re expecting empathy (like … forreal??) from politicians.
Cooked what books? I get you’re pissed but just putting allegations out there with zero evidence is not cool.
The CPSU cooked the books to get their 67% approval for the pay offer... I haven't met a single person who voted yes...
Most people I spoke to accepted the offer. For me I wasn't sure so I didn't voted no on the first offer, (which was increased from 10.5 to 11.2), didn't vote on the second and voted to accept the third. The votes of the election run by the AEC show Melissa Donnelly received about twice the votes than Will Mumford. Which is similar to what the vote to accept the offer. So I think you are off base with your claim as I would hope you don't have an issue with the AEC run election. While the pay offer wasn't great, there were substantial increases in conditions. And the catch up mechanism means some agencies are getting substantial increases. Everyone hoped to get a better offer. People I spoke to had gone through the experience in previous rounds of holding out years for a better pay offer and not getting it. You need to consider how this led people to vote. Because of the CPSU we got an increased offer and a 1 off payment. If you use your energy and focus on what was won and encourage others to join. A bigger stronger united union means we will be in an even better position next time.
Classic confirmation bias. Try harder.
Mate your agency is probably higher up on the pay list. Unfortunately this is a good deal for some agencies and the bargaining is for the whole APS and possibly there was more voting down that way? I was a 'no' voter.
go on strike
We did!
Very good
Hmmmm what do most of you do all day? Guessing it's not reviving junkies and saving kids' lives
Politicians should not give themselves pay rises, we should have to vote on it. They supposedly work for us. My boss decides my payrise not me…..
What these sneaky cunts did was to outsource it, so it is not the politicians who give themselves their pay rises and about the ONLY fucking issue these parasites are bipartisan on.
They don’t give themselves pay rises. The Renumeration Tribunal determines their wages, as well as those of a range of other senior roles across government.
I know this will get downvoted but if you don’t like your salary in the PS you should leave and work in the private sector for a higher salary. That’s the only real way to put pressure on the government to pay a real living wage. I left 10 years ago and now my salary is nearly triple what I was on back then.
You’re not doing the same thing as a paramedic
Never said I was. Read more than just the title!
Read the full post and the comment from old mate still stands.
Perhaps tell us why you and everyone else in the APS is deserving of the same pay rise that paramedics just got? They are a small group who have specialist skills and this pay rise was needed to manage what could have been a major catastrophe otherwise.
No, not at all.
Makes me sad reading some of the comments on this thread . Ambos are the most overworked and underpaid part of the health industry, the burnout rate and work conditions are horrific. Pay them, a fair bit more than inflation. Case closed.
why are you letting yourself be affected in a negative way by a positive thing in someones life? It literally does not effect you They arent thinking about you But you cant help to think about them Move on
I don't get angry at others for their pay rises, but it does make me want similar action for us
I’m gonna sounds like a conspiracy theorist but: DO NOT BUY INTO THIS ARGUMENT. Workers being pit against and fighting other workers is what they want you to do. This is not an either or situation. Just because they got a good deal does not mean they are more or less deserving than you. Fight the people who make the decisions, talk to your coworkers about their union membership and if they’d actually be willing to strike. Do not take it out on the people who are more or less in the same position as you.
I think you missed the point of my post if you think that's what I'm saying... We asked for 5% p.a to cover CPI... Labor government scoffs and says that's too much... Then signs off on their own 5% payrise after an INDEPENDENT remuneration panel says that's the minimum requirement to keep up with CPI... Then these same Labor Federal members are all over social media spruiking "their" win for Paramedics after 12 years of "oppression" by former governments... It's like Oprah is handing out pay rises that cover CPI, but skipping anyone in the crowd who won't look good in the promo! I get that's how politics works, I get that Paramedics deserve 10 times the wage they're getting, as do nurses, police, armed forces etc, but the hypocrisy of it makes me so angry!
Are you kidding? Using a much needed pay rise for Ambos to make the case you should also get a pay rise. An ambo is worth 5 of you.
EL1s and EL2s are some of the most overpayed people in the country.
Again, read something beyond the title, champ. I said the Ambos deserved what they got, and more. I never said that APS employees were more deserving of a pay rise than anyone else. I was simply highlighting the hypocrisy of Politicians saying "Aren't we wonderful? We've secured at 25% pay increase for Ambos" but when other public servants ask for a pay increase thst simply keeps up with CPI, we're unreasonable. Meanwhile those same politicians give themselves a pay rise that keeps up with CPI... As for your "paramedics are worth 5 of you" BS, whatever mate, back under your bridge!
Boring desk guy with no real skills is all you amount to, you are already overpaided. Ambos are worth their weight in gold.
Mate, I read your full post and nowhere does it say you think the ambos deserve it, or highlight hypocrisy. You cry about the disparity between their offer and the APS offer, and feel ‘betrayed’… Front line and emergency service workers are worth way more than 5 of you, and your attitude of false superiority is what makes the APS environment the backwards bureaucracy it is.
Their first sentence literally says that they deserve every cent they get and should get even more. The lack of reading comprehension skills in evidence here is astounding! Did you all drop out of school midway through primary school?
And that reply shows the reasons that the APS needs a major cultural overhaul. Your claims ÿour job in the APS keeping millions of Australians out of homelessness and ensures they can put food on the table" highlights your inflated ego and sense of importance. Perhaps take a break your mummy patting you on the back for being her little hero and go work on the frontline with those poeple you claim to 'save'.
State vs federal...different set of pollies. And if you want a better pay rise, join the union, get everyone else to join too, then all of you need to be willing to put your arses on the line and strike. Without real skin in the game, the willingness to put it all on the line, and the solidarity to stand firm, you'll get jack shit. If you're a bunch of pussies, you're gonna get fucked...
Ambos should be paid well over $200k a year. Instead we pay useless pen pushers that much to sit around and make poor decisions.
Their income is not far off that now actually.
If that is true that’s great. Make it more I say. All essential workers should be paid more from taxes stripped from wealthy shits like Gina.
bro NSW is a corrupt shit hole with gambling and a million other issues and THIS is what you're whinging about? huh? I am sorry I don't get it.
Private sector - Haven't had a payrise bar a 1.8% mandatory in 2022 since 2017. Don't get bumped up super - just mandated 11% , don't get flex, don't get a day off a year just because - don't have a union - don't even have an award to lean on. I find it hard to actually have any kind of feelings to public service anger TBH. 😕 I'd love a job in the PS but unless you know someone it appears to be a bit of a magic trick to land one. Outside looking in the grass def looks greener. Sorry.
I’m surprised anyone’s getting pay rises, we’re trapped in the worst episode of Hoarders EVER.
Paramedics are over 90% unionised. Public servants are about 20-25% unionised. It makes a huge difference in bargaining power. Having the density numbers and working in union collectively (which sometimes includes taking industrial action but sometimes doesn’t) makes a difference to the outcomes you can achieve. Surprise surprise. This is what those that denigrate the union (like Members United) don’t understand - solidarity means not always agreeing but standing together anyway. Plus, as demonstrated by the votes and the election - most people are happy with the offers and outcomes. It’s not just all about the headline percentages. Tens of thousands of workers are receiving much more because of the massive condition improvements, the closing of the pay fragmentation (lowest paid agencies are getting 20ish percent increases, even some levels within mid tiered agencies are getting increases), and getting allowances back which means thousands more in their pockets every year. Also, paramedics are literally saving lives - their work is incredibly important. Why begrudge them a pay rise?
oh no pencil pusher or getting spat on by druggies. wonder who deserves more money.
Back under your bridge, champ!
okay tiger. "but we have always done it this way" https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/two-reasons-why-change-harder-public-sector-alexander-stevenson
Meetooism is alive and well, again.
You Whiney fuck. When was the last time your job had you making a difference instead of going from tea break to tea break, collecting 15% super contributions with essentially unlimited leave and zero threat of personal violence during the course of your day? About time NSW Paramedics were given what they deserved - they were leaving NSW because of the enormous disparity between what they earned and what they could earn in other states. Who can blame them. Their day consists of real service, yours consists of Arnott’s biscuits service
My job in the APS keeps millions of Australians out of homelessness and ensures they can put food on the table. While it's not as important as Ambos and Cops, it's still pretty bloody important! Also, we haven't had Arnotts Biscuits provided (or even milk for the coffee you'd dunk them in) for the better part of a decade. I think you'd be surprised how much the APS does for Australia if you actually took a step back and actually used your brain for a change. For example, the money collected by the Public Servants gets allocated back to the States by Public Servants so that Ambos can be paid. Millions of Australians rely on the work of Public Servants to pay their bills, have a place to live. We process paperwork that allow Doctors to treat patients at no cost. We protect Australian flora and fauna from introduced pests that could wipe them out. Hell even Video streaming and gaming would grind to a halt if the right public servants went on strike. Instead, our toothless coward infested union sells us up the river to curry favour with the Labor Party. The same Labor party whose politicians are now crapping on incessantly about the great deal "they" gave Ambos despite a decade of oppression by Coalition governments. I'm with the OP, more power to Ambos and First Responders in general, they should be paid double what they are now. But the rising cost of living is being acknowledged by the Private sector and pay rises are being given accordingly, it's being acknowledged by State Governments and pay rises are being given accordingly, but this falls on deaf ears at the APSC and the Government.
>My job in the APS keeps millions of Australians out of homelessness Thank you! Without you we would have a housing crisis in Australia...
Do you have to see dead bodies on a weekly basis? Probably not. Shut up and enjoy your cushy office job.
How many dead bodies should one see per week to justify a pay raise?
You'll get a Dead Body Allowance in accordance with the relevant ATO Determination.
I’m not referring to a specific amount, more so the difference in day to day tasks; this is relating to the consistently high danger and traumatic job in comparison to the low danger and consistent routine tasks of an office job.
Maybe try reading something beyond the title before getting your knickers in a knot, champ!
Again, how many dead bodies have you attended to this week as part of your job?
[удалено]
Thankfully, none. My job doesn’t involve handling the deceased, and if it did I would then also be picketing for a better wage. Or searching for work in another industry/sector that is relative or higher than the increase given.
[удалено]
Well done bud, keep up the good work.
Because APS don't have in demand skills
I hope you're being sarcastic... Personally, I could take my skills and earn significantly more in the private sector, however I don't because I have the stupid notion that by working in the APS, I'm contributing to society something beyond paying the absolute minimum tax I can get away with... I'm happy to take a hit for this, as well as the job security an APS job offers, but I fail to see how this equates to us accepting a pay offer that doesn't even cover inflation!
The issue is you have that choice - ambulance workers don't have that choice - same with teachers and nurses
You aren't. The government doesn't contribute anything of use. Quit and move to the private sector
Ah yes, defence, health services, welfare support systems, national security, migration and international travel... yeah you're right. Nothing of use.
Wierd you named all these random sectors. That is correct,as I stated nothing of use.
If you're doing your job for altruistic purposes as you try to make out quit complaining about pay.
Just an FYI that Paramedics are out there saving lives and aren't just desk jockeys
Congratulations to the NSW ambos! As for us in the APS it is more than just the money. The lower paid agencies are getting extra to reduce the pay disparity within levels. There is also the increase to maternity and paternity leave up to 18 weeks. And finally, the majority of CPSU members did not see the value in taking protected industrial action to push the point. Of course it will all boil down to the final votes within the agencies.
Good on NSW Ambulance service, well deserved and damn hard fought. To the people saying it came down to NSW Ambulance being willing to take industrial action while others weren't, it's not always that simple. NSW Police attempted to take Industrial Action and the Industrial Relations Commission told the NSW Police union to stop, warning it would block a pay claim if action continued. So willingness to take industrial action doesn't really count for much when you get pressured into stopping. That's how we ended up stuck with a ridiculous pay offer below inflation while the pollies made sure they were given egregious pay increases for taking money away from front line workers. Again, awesome win for the Ambos!
Good. We did it!
As an ambo frequent flyer, they deserve every cent and more. We undervalue our essential services significantly and it isn't until it directly impacts us that we recognise how foolhardy this is. Well trained and properly resourced paramedics save the health budget a fortune by reducing non-essential ED admissions, so there isn't even a decent fiscal argument for why this was put off for so long, except that successive Governments haven't had the forsight to plan ahead.
> They must have cooked the books, surely?! Doesn’t the AEC run the vote? Or is that just to elect the union itself? Either way conspiracy theories aren’t going to help you. Fact is the membership did not have an appetite for industrial action, and even the first vote was a slim approval for the deal that the union themselves overturned.
Work one day in their shoes and then decide whether you think they're paid enough. These people put up with so much just to try to help people as well as saving lives.
Simple. We got outplayed.
Good on them. If you want the same, join your union, organise, take protected action.
Easy as. Not hard to get in the Ambos at all. 24/7 roster. 365. Blood guts death disaster. All before 11am some days. Never gonna see past 20 years service without being totally fucked in the head. Go on. Join. I dare ya.
Paramedics have high union density, get your colleagues to join the CPSU
The members voted up the last offer and it was the leadership that said no. Why are you confused this one passed give the leadership endorsed this one.
that's nothing. i have seen contractors working in govt agencies that get $1k to $2k/daily rate and they worked for years without any pressure from management to convert to perm staff.
When I contracted for the government, I would have had to half my pay to go perm. They tried to hire perms instead after a reorganisation. 0 applications to the position. If you have a sought-after skill, you don't work for APS. You contract. If you are not sought after, you have no leverage.
I'm angry every time anyone says they deserve a pay rise without telling me what from, for context. Maybe cunt but I don't know.
[удалено]
Hello, it looks like you've made a mistake. It's supposed to be could've, should've, would've (short for could have, would have, should have), never could of, would of, should of. Or you misspelled something, I ain't checking everything. Beep boop - yes, I am a bot, don't botcriminate me.
I don’t have an issue with this at all. I’m probably an outlier but I feel I’m paid well for the work I do which does NOT include saving lives.