Until under a decade ago, we forced airline pilots to retire at 60. Now we trust pilots to fly up to 65, not willing people older to be responsible for the lives of up to 300 people. Our choices to pilot the lives of 400 million people resides with either a 78 yo or an 81 yo.
It ain't gonna happen this time (although I'd love a strict cutoff at 70-75 range -- there's a minimum age for presidency and there needs to be a maximum). But this time around, you have one of two choices to pick from and that third one is just a vote sponge.
Yeah cognitive decline affects everyone at different ages, to different degrees.
Right now Trump's biggest supporter is probably Jill Biden because she's about to ruin Democrat chances for the presidency. If you think the Supreme Court is bad now .... Just wait for 4 more years of Trump.
My wife's grandpa is 92 years old and sharp as a tack. He's almost completely blind but he could absolutely crush Biden in a debate, I don't think he's lost hardly any mental acuity from when I first met him 25 years ago.
On the other hand, her grandma was almost completely gone, mentally speaking, when she died in her early 80's. Alzheimer's hit her hard.
In a sane world we wouldn't have breathing corpses like Biden and Feinstein holding on to office when they're clearly mentally unfit. Barring them and the people around them actually doing the right thing, I wish we could pass a law requiring politicians to take yearly mental acuity testing, and have the results publicly posted.
Do we have any judges about to die? Jill should have stepped in a while ago and protected her husband from this, but I’m guessing she doesn’t have the ability to
Thomas and Alito will both retire before the end of Trump's presidency if he is elected. They will be paid extremely handsomely to do so and will be flown around by Leonard Leo and his ilk on free vacations for the rest of their days
Thomas is probably the next to go. He's closing in on 80. But he also strikes me as the type to ride it until the grave just so he can get the maximum fucking of everyone not wealthy in.
The Biden family is convincing Joe to stay in the race. I'm thinking they like all the perks of having a husband / dad for President.
And yeah it's hard to predict when Supreme Court Justices will die or retire. It's usually old age, but not always.
The presidency ages everyone. He has been hit especially the last year or so. I always said I would support his first run, right the ship and then step aside. Give the dems three years to elevate and groom other options. But nope. None of that happened. And now here we are. About to elect someone who either has zero respect for democracy or is delulu.
Now i'll just have to satisfy myself with the fact that he isn't a convicted felon who is trying to tear down our government. He can drool in the corner all he wants and it will still be a huge improvement.
Yep. Doggett ain't got the big red nuke everything button. He ain't got Putin and Xi and Kim and everyone else breathing down his neck waiting for a mistake to pounce. He doesn't have the security of both Europe and Asia as his primary responsibility. There's a lot at stake here and not just within our borders, not at all.
Wut?
A Senator is no where near a President when it comes to international affairs.
I personally think there should be a hard age limit of 70 while in office, just saying it’s a weird whataboutisim.
to be fair being a congressman is way less draining (and has less impact) than being POTUS. i don’t think doggett is necessarily being hypocritical here
Doggett's district is mainly solidly democratic voters though. Yes, he has survived quite a lot of redistricting and shown some cross over appeal in past years, but the same can be said of Biden. For background, I didn't want Biden and did not vote for him in the primary, but he is who was selected as the democratic candidate per the process.
\>Doggett has won fifteen elections in a row.
The Republicans have gerrymandered all the districts so our elections for almost all of them resemble voting in the Soviet Union. (Yes, the Soviet Union had "elections.")
Next they're planning to end one person, one vote for all statewide offices. Instead the winner will be who won the most counties in the state. That means about 2% of the population will elect the governor, etc.
See: [https://new.reddit.com/r/texas/comments/1db861p/republican\_party\_platform\_proposes\_that\_only\_2\_of/](https://new.reddit.com/r/texas/comments/1db861p/republican_party_platform_proposes_that_only_2_of/)
Doggett was a main target of redistricting in the past when he was put in the district that went from Austin to the valley. Ive been happy with him as my rep and I always respected his vote against the Iraq war when almost everyone else voted for it.
Biden won by 7 million+ more votes and had the most votes of any US Presidential candidate in US history. You can try to reframe it as a marginal win, but it wasn't.
You know very well that the election is won or lost in the electoral college, and THERE he won the election on the razor thin margins in Pennsylvania and Georgia.
His seven million vote margin may contribute to his abstract sense of legitimacy, but it does nothing for him in the election itself.
Being a Congressman and being the president are two very different things. The latter is a much more difficult position with vastly higher stakes. Should Doggett ever become unable to do his job effectively (regardless of his politics), one hopes he would step down, but he would be relatively easily replaced in that instance, and in the meantime having one sundowning member of the House out of 435 wouldn't be the end of the world. There is at least a chance that a sundowning president could actually be the end of the world.
Additionally, the guy seems to still have his marbles for the time being. Anyone watching the debate last week, if they were being honest with themselves about it, could tell that Biden does not. As someone else said, cognitive decline does not hit everyone at the same time (or even at all, necessarily). It happens that Biden's decline is pretty stark and significant, and that puts his very candidacy at risk, among other things.
I hate how everyone is now acting like they didn't tell them about Biden and his age years ago.
When Jon Stewart said the same thing in his return to the Daily Show months ago the Dems and other people on the left excoriated him.
It seems like to little too late for this "I told you so".
exactly, it is that simple, go full force talk shows, especially live ones where there are no edits.
if he is capable fine, I expect our president to be capable of doing that. No age excuses, if you can't do it, step aside, period
Pelosi recommended this, either she is getting ready to throw him under the bus or would do it without directly getting involved. It does make sense and have it public so we can all decide what we think. I am 100% for this.
If he really just had a cold this will clear it up.
" :She recommended that Biden sit for multiple face-to-face interviews with “serious journalists” to reassure his allies. Biden has participated in fewer press conferences or interviews than many of his modern peers. "
Few have better political instincts in the entire country than Pelosi. She's proven to be shrewd again and again. She's outwitted her enemies again and again. She was probably the most effective Speaker in recent history. I'd tend to trust her opinion.
For real - aren’t democrats losing a great opportunity. Polls show consistently no one wants to vote for either of the candidates. So if Democrats put a good moderate that is well spoken and smart, wouldn’t that kinda be an auto win for them?
Both candidates have basically incumbent advantage. You'd lose that completely swapping out Biden right now. Remember most voters don't actually pay attention to politics or what's going on in that domain. They go off vague 'I feel good, so the president must be doing good things' feelings. That's why so many people think the president controls dumb shit like gas prices.
So in short, swapping out Biden at this point makes no sense. Add onto just how polarizing this election is and those who 'pay attention' have already made up their minds on who to vote for anyhow.
> hat's why so many people think the president controls dumb shit like gas prices.
there was a guy in this sub recently who said the Biden presidency was the worst time in his life, because his landlord increased his rent and now he's homeless. I said which thing did Biden do to cause that, and he said "not fight hard enough against the corporations". ??!!?? Which corporations? How was he supposed to fight them?
It's never been done before, and that's why they're so god damn scared. It's anyone's guess what may happen. I hate watching history unfold. I prefer the nothing ever happens type stuff.
I’m not sure anymore. We can’t risk a loss so I understand wanting to keep the known quantity but I can’t possibly imagine that 99% of the people voting for Biden wouldn’t vote for literally any reasonable democrat. However, the battle is very often won or lost based on 1% so I don’t know if switching candidates is smart right now.
it is all about the swing states, imagine the ads if they don't change, the ads with him trying to talk to XI or the 3am answering the phone ads, if he has dementia there is the "dementia evening effect", google it,
He will get clocked in swing states by people scared,
I was with extended family who are super liberal and they were saying how worried they are
Put yourself in an independent voter's shoes. Re-watch the debate. Watch the news coverage of the debate. Listen to the water cooler talk at work. Do you really think it makes sense to stick with Biden? Core dems may be able to overlook his issues, but that's not enough to win an election, and that gap is a lot more than the 1% you seem to think it is.
The last time an incumbent left then race (and it was still during the primaries) we got Nixon. Biden leaving the race now would create a lot of chaos and uncertainty and pretty much guarantee a Trump presidency. It is extremely irresponsible to call for Biden to step down now.
> and pretty much guarantee a Trump presidency
If the election was today, Trump would win, hands down. That sucks, and it's mind boggling that it's somehow true, but here we are. So what do you think is going to change with Biden in the next four months? Or are you just betting it all on Trump choking on a burger?
How is it obvious?
Biden sez "I'm dropping out as the Democrat Nominee."
You have less than 4 months till election day.
Show me the roadmap that still results in a better result than running Biden.
There isn't a ton of data but Harris seems to poll about the same as Biden head-to-head with Trump. And she's young enough to wage a vigorous campaign and win over voters. Additionally she's probably the weakest top Democratic candidate - she has low favorability ratings.
I don't see any reason to think Pete Buttigieg or Gretchen Whitmer wouldn't perform better than Harris or Biden. The biggest obstacle is name recognition but I think that will be overcome quickly.
Honestly - I don't know how any moderate Democrat would do worse than Biden in November. He doesn't have the cognitive function to campaign let alone be president for four more years.
Biden was losing the polling before the catastrophic debate. This is not a primary plan, this is a contingency plan that we never should have had to consider because Biden should have followed through with his promise to only have one term and then hand off power. Whether he is trying again because he's a stubborn old fuck or because his handlers who want to remain in power are determined to do to him what Feinstein's handlers did to her, they are putting the Democratic Party and the country at large in a very bad position for selfish reasons.
Put anyone with intact cognitive skills who's not a complete mess in his place. They will get votes for the same reason Biden did: not being Trump. It's not like people were enthused about Biden in 2020 either, he's as generic and bland as possible and that's what people were craving after Trump.
>Biden should have followed through with his promise to only have one term and then hand off power
Biden never promised that at all. He was[ \*very\* clear ](https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/joe-biden-denies-mulling-term-pledge-elected-president/story?id=67662497)that he would run again in 2024 if he won.
> Put anyone with intact cognitive skills who's not a complete mess in his place.
Thanks for proving the point - everyone just assumes "oh. We can trot out ANYONE and beat Trump!"
Except you can't and you have to figure it out now before you open your mouth.
I don't think it's a guaranteed win if Dems replace Biden, but it's starting to feel like a guaranteed loss if they don't. Let's take a chance and try to win, even if it requires some chaos and hurt feelings to get there.
If you think biden is so far gone that he's *certain* not to win against the convicted felon, why aren't you (the collective you) calling for him to resign right now? If one bad night is enough to demonstrate that he's unfit to campaign, then it follows that he's unfit to serve. So where are all the demands to give him the boot?
Because it seems to me that if he's capable of "presidenting" (and i've seen no evidence that he's no longer an effective chief executive), then he's certainly sharp enough to campaign. He's got a good record to run on and strong tail winds (Dobbs blowback, D+20 swings in special elections, etc). Democrats would be foolish to ditch him *now* when he's in the most power place anyone can be to challenge Trump.
the fact that generic Dems are polling roughly even with Biden against Trump should be deeply concerning. The incumbent president should poll much higher. Polls as of this second only tell you the state of play as of this second. Take Biden out and elevate another Dem with tons of media attention and those numbers will change. Plus if you pick someone from a state you are likely to lose otherwise (Michigan cough cough) that's a pretty good move.
Yes and she would be able to use all of the money Biden has raised because it’s the Biden/Harris campaign. Someone else would not just inherit that money. They’d only have money the DNC raised outside of the Biden campaign.
If the line is “vote blue no matter who” because of the orange menace it is not crazy to ask for someone who is not showing decline.
The main issue is we’re seeing what Biden is doing against Trumps policies and it’s not much. If you vote for him because of Project 2025 who do you intend to vote for instead of project 2029 and so on and so forth because Biden and the Democratic Party have shown that they are not looking to end the obvious issue but kick the can further down the road
The real question is whether Democracy can outlast Trumpism.
If this election somehow doesn't result in Trump in office, then I struggle to think how Trumpism remains a viable identity after not 1 but 2 major losses.
I think aspects and shades will persist but the cohesive narrative of "Trump - 3rd or 4th time is the charm." comes apart.
Trump is also quite old himself, so in a sense simply kicking the can down the road is totally viable since he'll eventually die and his personality cult will splinter.
Far right parties are gaining ground all over the world. As the climate crisis and the concomitant wars and economic competition deepen, so will the blame shifting demagogues find more power. This is only going to get worse, and "democracy" needs to step up instead of prematurely declaring hollow victories.
What on earth are you taking about? Biden’s policies and undoing a lot of what Trump did have been remarkable. He’s has the most progressive presidential record in history and has accomplished significant legislative and policy wins despite a hostile GOP and SCOTUS.
He looked really really bad in the debate but attacking him as simply being “I’m not Trump” is just lazy and disingenuous.
But to top it off. Trump and MAGA are such a unique threat to democracy that voting simply to keep them out of power absolutely should be a key issue.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=N8ibHZGXcr8
More of that energy and less of your snark.
I honestly thought that's what the obvious plan was.
They know they couldn't hide Biden's decline, so they scheduled these debates way earlier than otherwise would be, let him fall flat on his face, then the party picks somebody who isn't geriatric and in cognitive decline.
Obviously, we'd need more debates, so we get somebody who is mentally there against Trump (who, while not showing signs of dementia, is still an idiot) and their performance would suck up all the moderate and independent votes. This new candidate will get wall-to-wall positive media coverage ("TO SAVE DEMOCRACY!"), so they wouldn't even really need to fund raise much.
Seems like a master plan to win...if only the democrats had somebody who was likeable, reasonably recognizable on the national stage, moderate, and competent. It doesn't take much to be 'Not Trump'. Even failures of any of those qualities would be papered over by the media like they papered over Biden's decline for the past 3 years.
I am not a fan of Trump, but Republicans were claiming this for the last year and everyone, including other politicians and the media, were complicit in covering it up.
It is no surprise for anyone paying attention’. Dems can finally just say it publicly now without getting crucified by their own party.
Dem party leadership are actively looking to lose with how they have managed it. Anointing the candidates. No primary. Shutting down any dissent until it’s 100% undeniable…
“Anyone but Bush” was a failed rallying cry in 2004 and they are hoping the “Anyone but Trump” will work this time.
So frustrating
Quite frustrating but folks like Doggett and the NYT waited until end of June to say it out loud after a mediocre performance?
The cowards should have been saying this a year ago and worked to provide a strategy. Otherwise, they need to keep their mouths shut or even better, pickup the phones and start explaining how "Biden's debate sucked but Grandpa Joe will pull out the fucking stops and clean the floor in the next challenge."
> Otherwise, they need to keep their mouths shut or even better, pickup the phones and start explaining how "Biden's debate sucked but Grandpa Joe will pull out the fucking stops and clean the floor in the next challenge."
Except Grandpa Joe won't, because he can't. It's obvious the emperor has no clothes. Everybody on the democratic side was in strong denial or hoping it wouldn't show until after the election.
This is the fruit of that harvest.
>Quite frustrating but folks like Doggett and the NYT waited until end of June to say it out loud after a mediocre performance?
You want my cynical take on it? The NYT (and the media at large) is a bunch of cynical fucks who latch on to anything remotely interesting like a fucking parasite.
You know why you don't see news articles about the deranged somewhat senile rantings of Trump? Because it doesn't get attention, he could shit himself on stage and a little bit than half of American voters are still going to vote for him. So the media feasts of the other side, the side that will bemoan and wring their hands and then have a bunch of old pundits and politicians talk un-ironically how old the President is.
Exactly. Biden had an awful showing. But more awful is trying to pick a replacement and get him the same kind of name and record recognition in the US as Biden has. That ship sailed at very best 6 months ago. There isn't any reasonable amount of time for that. Anyone picked will not have time to contest any astro turfing of falsehoods and blotches on their record from Russian bots
actually, it's not too late at all. the UK runs their election over 73 days, Canada 53, Mexico within 3 months...we're the only place with the years+ approach....
And do you realize how very different those countries run their elections? Also, those candidates are still campaigning and getting notoriety towards being the front runners well before that
You're not wrong about that.....but here's a question to ask ourselves: What would happen if Biden fell into a coma today? Would we just forget about the election and hand it over to Trump? What would happen is that a candidate would be selected at the convention...a procedure that used to be somewhat commonplace.
From a personal standpoint (and as a longtime Democrat), i would rather go down swinging than face defeat mired in inertia and fear.
Few are paying attention to the Presidential race yet. There is plenty of time to present a slate of younger, well qualified candidates. Send them to interviews all over the TV and then select the one with the most mojo at the convention. It's pure gaslighting to suggest that there is only one qualified Democrat in a nation of millions of Democrats.
Having a qualified candidate is one thing - proving that they can beat Trump is another one.
Can anyone do that in the next 3-4 weeks so they can buy the ad space, get the running mate and all the stuff that takes a year or two?
My guess is no.
It can be brave to speak outside of your party line, but I think something like 3/4 of the country wants Biden to step down, and over half the Democrats, so kind of loses whatever bravery it would have had.
Doing the same months/years ago would have been a much more admirable stance.
We can disagree politically but it is dangerous to have an obviously senile dementia riddled man as President. Who is really running the country is a shadow government, most likely Jill, Hunter and unelected advisors.
Which has created a real poop show.
Agreed. This kind of thing has happened before, and also at a critical juncture in history that had some big consequences:
[https://www.newyorker.com/news/daily-comment/woodrow-wilsons-case-of-the-flu-and-how-pandemics-change-history](https://www.newyorker.com/news/daily-comment/woodrow-wilsons-case-of-the-flu-and-how-pandemics-change-history)
[https://www.pbs.org/newshour/health/woodrow-wilson-stroke](https://www.pbs.org/newshour/health/woodrow-wilson-stroke)
I also really don't like this recent trend of presidential families getting a bunch of power just by virtue of being family.
Keep this in mind
Doggett would not have done this without permission from the Democratic leaders. Going rogue is so not like him. He is also past primary in a very blue district, served for 30 years in congress. He is a nice person who cares about people and would not do anything to hurt the party. He volunteered or ask to do this.
Combine that with Pelosi comments and they are trying to walk this carefully. If anyone knows how he really is, it is her. She would never say to step down, she let Doggett do it. Her comment questioning whether this is a one off and that he should do a lot of public interviews is her nice way of saying please for the good of the party ...
I suspect the Democratic leadership is focused on not just winning the White House but the down ballot Senate/House seats. If Trump wins but Dems control congress he is limited, if Trump wins and takes Congress look out.
It is all about what is best for the country.
I suspect Pelosi knew but could not do anything until it went public which is what the debate did. I am sure people behind the scene have been worried asking him to consider and he said no so they needed this public event to get help from the public.
Disappointed in Biden that he is selfish and not thinking of the country first. He said he was going to be a transition one term candidate and then changed his mind. That is where things went wrong. If he had stuck to that we would not be here and he could ride out in the sunset.
> Combine that with Pelosi comments and they are trying to walk this carefully.
For those who missed it, Pelosi said it's a "legitimate question" whether Biden's performance was a condition or episode. If she's willing to say this - and like her or not, she knows far more about what's going on behind-the-scenes - I think it's safe to say plans are in motion to try to drop Biden.
People need to stop and remember that politicians are among the most stubborn people on the planet. Strom Thurmond made it to 100 before he left the Senate. Rumors about Dianne Feinstein's state, and why she was allowed to keep going, circulated for ages before she finally died *at the age of 90, while still in office*. There are plenty more out there. As with athletes, there comes a time that you need to hang 'em up. I strongly suspect history won't treat Biden well if he refuses to step down.
People can whine all they want about Trump's age. Doesn't matter. Yes, he's old. Yes, he's a shithead. Yes, he's now a felon (although Hunter's advising Joe daily, so it's a bit of a wash in that department). Yes, he at least seemed coherent last week, didn't need help walking down the stairs, etc. At least if he manages to have a stroke or otherwise fall off a proverbial cliff between now and November, a coherent Dem could exploit that. Biden would just make an awful lot of people shake their heads even harder than they already are.
CNN’s head to head polling has other potential candidates polling steadily a few points better than Biden month after month. While Trump is still winning those head to heads, they are within the margin of error and I think it’s fair to say that Biden has hit his ceiling. I believe the other potential candidates have much higher ceilings.
At least someone was willing to put his name on it instead of "a named Democratic lawmaker" or what's similarly been appearing in these panic articles lately.
Anyone watched the debate with people who are undecided? Lloyd’s not wrong. Literally any of the stable of governors (Whitmer, Shapiro, Pritzker) would swing the election.
I say this agreeing that Biden has been a great president.
Maybe the husk of Biden squeaks through, and I would vote for anyone over Trump.
I'm literally a never Trump guy but it was hard to watch. Biden is clearly beyond his prime mentally and it's getting insulting having people explain it away as a stutter or bad prep. Anyone whose had a grandparent losing their mental faculties recognized that in Biden watching that shit.
>Maybe the husk of Biden squeaks through, and I would vote for anyone over Trump.
This brings up part of the variable I haven't seen mentioned much.
Dems don't just need Biden to win, they need to retake the house. Biden winning but depressing turnout essentially gives the house back to the GOP to prevent anything from getting passed for at least two more years.
There's no way that Biden wins and Dems don't come through in Congress. Many of the Democratic candidates are out-polling Biden.
There's a surprisingly large split ticket population out there.
I heard an excellent reason for putting Whitmer and Shapiro on the ticket. They are both popular governors of swing states that won by a good margin. Flip a coin for who runs as president, I think they’d both go a great job.
100% agree. I was starting to get really angry with what I felt was outright gaslighting by some Democratic leaders, asking us to ignore our own eyes and ears. This wasn't just "one bad debate" a la Obama in 2012. This was clear evidence of a man in significant decline - and everyone who's had the pain of caring for an aging parent knows that decline goes in one direction.
There was a historian on CNN saying people who wanted Biden to step down because of his decline were wrong because "they're not doctors" and couldn't know what the future holds. I was so mad I wanted to punch this guy in the face. I'm not proposing I know what treatment Biden needs to minimize his decline, but I am a fucking human and the evidence of where Biden is headed was plain for everyone to see.
I think it's a shame that it takes this much courage to state the obvious, but thank you Lloyd for speaking up.
5 months is not nothing... the new Democratic candidate will automatically inherit most Biden voters, so will just have to win over a few more percent.
I believe until the 70's the party delegates picked the candidate at the convention, i.e. the "open convention." No reason Democats couldn't have an open convention if Biden drops. It would be quite the spectacle and I think it would generate great publicity and momentum for the Democratic nominee. It would be the media event of the century.
> I don't see it happening
If my unemployed cousin Lenny ran in Biden's place, he'd lock down a huge percentage of the vote. Nobody has to convince the never-trumpers. The issue is convincing the people who don't want Kamala as president, or convincing the lazy and unmotivated that there's a candidate worth getting off the couch for.
Biden could hardly be doing worse with those two groups. What demographic would he lose by stepping down to be replaced by someone charismatic and energetic?
Once you are old enough to be forced to collect collect social security you should be too old to run for public office.
It’s absurd that someone his age wants to work full time. You have to be a total megalomaniac to want these jobs. This applies to both presidential candidates and to Doggett.
This is not business as usual everyone. Age is a problem but it's not the issue here. On one hand, you have a criminal menace that wants to end democracy in the US and usher in a totalitarian christo-fascist state (Project 2025... look it up). If that guy wins, this is the last time your vote counts. On the other hand you have an effective politician and good human being that stutters and is old. During the debate, Trump did nothing but deflect and lie but he did so smoothly. Why is that totally fine, but being honest and inarticulate is a total deal breaker FFS? Look at the big picture here. This is so important right now because the people that should be calling evidence-based balls and strikes on laws that govern all of us are corrupt and use different facts to suit their desired outcomes (Gorsuch, Kavanaugh, Alito, Thomas, Barrett, Cannon, and many others). Read their opinions! We need a second term president to fix this s\*\*t... not further this rot. Do not be distracted by mainstream media and sleep walk into this. It is not business as usual. It's f\*\*king serious and it's a one-way street. Imagine a president that has narcissistic/psychotic tendencies and knows he's immune from criminal prosecution and is in charge of the most powerful country in the world... its military... economy... judicial system... think about it. Age is not the issue here. Biden has younger people working for him to do things younger people are better at. Intent is the issue here. Your life and prosperity and that of your kids depends you on you recognizing this.
I agree with you in that I will personally never vote for Trump but the simple truth is Biden will lose. There are enough people out there who don't see this issue quite as black and white as you do (i.e would vote for a younger Democratic candidate but not for Biden).
The only way for Dems to prevent Trump from taking office is to replace Biden. If Democrats just fall in line behind Biden because he's better than the alternative, we will lose the election. Biden is literally trailing in every swing state, plus states like Virginia and New Mexico that weren't even considered swing states going into the election. We have to start making noise to oust Biden.
At this point, we're simply voting for cabinets.
One cabinet represents more of the same do nothing much, bad policy politics of old.
The other cabinet is led by a pure maniac and pathological liar with desires to be a dictator. He uses government to crush personal enemies and build personal wealth, has a revolving door of henchmen doing his dirty work and falling on the axe when the bill is due, and a cyclical barrage of lawsuits. He often brings out the worst in people with his rhetoric and is a menace to humankind. And his lone term so far has him ranked as one of the worst presidents in US history.
Thanks Lloyd couldn’t disagree more. This would be handing the election to Trump. A battle for a new nominee would be a drawn-out-free-for-all and except for Kamala none have been vetted. All potential candidates had years to make their case and none stepped up and committed, Adding in a new VP would have similar potential vetting issues. Trump being the con-man he is would easily exploit these new uncertainties. With Joe and Kamala we know what the issues are and they are surmountable for sure. Kamala would make a great President but the vast majority won’t agree with that. Having said that should Joe become incapable Kamala and the Biden’s current team could manage any challenge. We need 110% behind Joe and Kamala and better management of their events and communications. We should be able to get out the vote in a favorable way even in the swing states if we behave like professionals in a unified way. We need to hammer on the countless negatives of Trump and expose the weaknesses of whomever he has as VP. History says this is the only path to victory.
The 10:1, you refer to, are not going to vote for Trump. Let’s be smart and compete competently for a win.
Finally, a democrat with a spine! If you truly believe that Trump is a threat to democracy, it’s time to put democracy above 1 candidates ego. Biden is not capable of winning the presidential election. We need an open convention
Who is the candidate that wins? I don’t disagree that Biden sucks but what is the alternative? I hear a lot of noise about him dropping out and no plan after.
Harris might be the walking version of a human resources christmas card but she's still the best we can do, especially without betraying the base. Nothing else makes as much sense.
You don’t think the delegates can find someone better than Biden? Also an open convention is great for media attention.
What’s the worst case, Kamala? Given what we saw in the last debate, shes likely to take the desk within 4 years anyways.
You’re talking about the same party that has gone all in on Biden. You now trust them to change horses mid race and pick a candidate strong enough to unite the party and beat a popular Trump? That doesn’t really make sense to me but I guess it’s sort of a “plan”…
Replacing him would ensure a Trump victory due to the chaos and people not knowing his replacement.
These public "calls" do nothing but make it more difficult. Lloyd needs to shut up and let the press move on to their next shiny thing.
When asked about Trumps gaffe's do Senators and Congress men on the Right throw Trump under the bus? Never. They never trash their side.
This. Everyone _wants_ a different candidate, but at this point it would be a mistake. History is not on the side of a last minute switch like that, and the stakes are just too high.
Not sure if you saw the debate, but it was more than a gaffe. This was pretty much the first event of the election, and if it wasn’t a fluke odds are going to get worse each time he appears.
I agree but shouldn't we run someone who can beat Trump? Biden will lose. I'd rather take a chance on another candidate than a guaranteed loss with BIden.
It takes only a few minutes to reach out to your representatives and let your voice be heard
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Biden was absolute last on my list in 2020 Primaries, and I knew we’d end up in this situation, but the congresswoman from Dallas has the better take on this one.
https://www.reddit.com/r/democrats/s/9j4W8fl5Un
Dude's about 3 fuckin years too late to call it out. Everyone should've pushed against the run for re-election before/when it was announced and just branded 2021-2025 as a transition term for the next generation to take over as we return to normalcy.
The problem is these old people think they're uniquely qualified to fix all the problems that they've caused. Doggett isn't any different.
The time to say this was 12-24 months ago. Saying it now is neither smart nor brave. A presidential campaign isn't something you spin up in a couple weeks and none of the people being touted are prepared to do it.
At this point I’d vote for Jimmy Carter in his current state over Trump still. The absolute horseshit from the SCOTUS and Project 2025 should scare the shit out of any democracy loving American.
How does replacing a candidate even work? Say Biden does withdraw and the D's have an open convention where they pick a candidate - how does that person get on 50 state ballots? Aren't most if not all of them already pretty much set in stone at this point? It's not as simple as just plugging a new person in - our dumbass system involves 50 little elections, not one big one.
The ballots are not set in stone at this point. So it actually would be that "simple" from a ballot point of view.
Figuring out who should replace him by the convention on August 19th is where there's a lot of different scenarios and where things could potentially get very messy. Biden has almost all the delegates but they can technically pick any candidate they want at the convention. Even if Biden doesn't drop out they could pick a different candidate if they really wanted to but that's extremely unlikely as they're very loyal to Biden. But if Biden does drop out then all their votes are up for grabs and that's where there's a whole lot of unknowns of who might get picked and how contentious that process might get.
Gotta love living in unprecedented times!
So, none of these people noticed Biden has a speech impediment before now? Calling for him to quit now is just sabotaging him and making the case for Trump (who frequently has incoherent speech). He’s not going to bow out this close to November. Democrats love to lose. It feels like they’re just controlled opposition sometimes. Any EU citizens want to marry me? I cook, I clean, and I attest that I have made at least some women orgasm.
Speech impediment? WTF?!
Go watch Biden in the 70’s through his VP days - the guy was AMAZING! This is not a “speech impediment;” this is age-related cognitive decline. No spin can change that.
Maybe I missed that day in class, but could you point out what part of having a stutter leads to a blank stare or losing track of the topic you're on mid-sentence in the middle of a debate?
The guy literally wandered away from abortion as a topic (which *should* have been a gold mine) in his second sentence and started talking about immigration...*badly.*
I think Biden has been an outstanding president and I would vote for him vs Trump in a heartbeat (if only for the quality of the people he surrounds himself with), but to attribute his debate performance to a stutter is extremely disrespectful to people with stutters.
Cold medication is far more plausible than that, and it's only okay as an excuse.
Amen to that. Biden’s hubris is a larger liability than his mental acuity, but we’re here.
And despite all the children on Reddit who think it’ll be fun to bathe in the blood of our loved ones in a Revolution (See! Marx told you so!), I am a pretty big fan of a stable and malleable-by-process (yes, change is too slow - that’s how it’s built, dammit!) government over an authoritarian regime run by someone who gets his feelings hurt easily.
Then its bust. He can't win. He barely squeaked out a victory last time, and things have only gotten worse for him and better for Trump. He lost a lot of people when he surrendered to the Taliban, he lost Michigan on the question of Palestine, and the economy has been mid at best so that's not helping either. He's more than lost the 10,000 or so votes that he won by in all these swing states, so if its Biden or bust, then Trump is as good as elected already.
what's this mythical perfect democrat going to even say to get people to vote for them. "hey guys it's either me or a literal dictator" it's been said a million times, nobody is going to care.
Honestly?
Somebody like Manchin.
Somebody who's shown themselves to be adults, not ideological, and actually has had cross aisle support.
You pick a firebrand or a leftist and you'll lose badly. The idea that "more fight" is what the centrist voting population wants is absurd. The general populace is wanting a closed/controlled border; "tough on crime"; less spending and more stability.
Hate Trump all you want, but his policies have been much closer to the mainstream than what's happened in the past 4 years. Even Roe V. Wade. (most people are fine with elective abortion in the first trimester, squeamish about 2nd trimester, and generally disgusted by 3rd)
Someone here actually understands politics.
Platforming anyone but a moderate candidate against Trump is suicide. Manchin would be a good choice, actually. There would be epic hand wringing and whining from the more liberal base, but they’d still vote for him. So would centrists.
And the commie kids would cut and run, but they aren’t going to leave their thumb boards long enough to actually go vote anyway. That last part is super unfortunate.
Says who? According to the “Biden or Bust” crowd everyone will just be voting for “Not Trump” anyways. What’s the risk then of bringing on someone else? Do you think all the extra media frenzy will result in less turnout?
It’s the same corporate democrats who gaslit people by saying a vote for Bernie is a vote for Trump. Same people did the “just suck it up this time and it will be different next time”. Meanwhile we’ve had 8 years and 2 next times and the two candidates are older and way worse.
The only instances in modern times were when two or more very well known, strong candidates were in competition. And never when an incumbent president is running.
So, this situation would be beyond unprecedented.
>Biden is not the Democratic Party
I never said he was.
>we can find someone better
There is no one with a greater chance to be president against Trump. We have a few months before the election. It is far too late to find a new candidate. Especially against Trump. Again, it is Biden or bust. I will vote for Biden's fucking urn, before I vote for Trump. I don't see anyone else who has the popularity of support of the general American public.
Many people aren't like you though and just won't show up to vote, there's plenty of polls about this and noise around Biden that's just not going to go away.
You will also vote for Biden's replacement. Don't pretend that you and the other Biden's supporters won't vote for whoever has a (D) behind their name.
lmao news flash, the 'vote blue no matter who' crowd does not contain the same people needed to win the election. Like all elections this is about convincing the margin who will absolutely not just switch to a no name, younger candidate (which all of the other options are)
True, but the people who are needed for a victory are not going to vote for someone on their last legs, especially if they aren't fond of the vice-presidential candidate.
Didn’t see one mention in this thread of Project 2025. It’s not about Trump, this election is about so much more. The Far Right have been playing the long game for decades. The Supreme Court is laying the groundwork for Project 2025 as we speak. The propaganda machine has clearly worked as intended because the masses generally seem to have no idea what’s really at stake.
I just contacted him asking who he'd nominate and how they could be proven to beat Trump. I also wanted to know him and his colleagues plans to combat Project 2025 should the worst happen. Biden isn't my favorite (and supporting the IDF war crimes is heinous), but only Trump or Biden will be president in 2025. The latter must win.
Thank you Lloyd Doggett for not gaslighting us like everyone else in leadership of the DNC has. My father-in-law tried to rebut having Biden step aside with the usual retorts “but look at what he’s accomplished” “but Trump…” and then ended by saying, “apparently he’s bad at night.”
Im just looking for a candidate thats under 70.
A non criminal history would be icing on the cake
Until under a decade ago, we forced airline pilots to retire at 60. Now we trust pilots to fly up to 65, not willing people older to be responsible for the lives of up to 300 people. Our choices to pilot the lives of 400 million people resides with either a 78 yo or an 81 yo.
It ain't gonna happen this time (although I'd love a strict cutoff at 70-75 range -- there's a minimum age for presidency and there needs to be a maximum). But this time around, you have one of two choices to pick from and that third one is just a vote sponge.
Doggett said at the age of 77 with no sense of irony
When Biden was 77 years old, I was satisfied with his debate performance and ability to communicate.
Yeah cognitive decline affects everyone at different ages, to different degrees. Right now Trump's biggest supporter is probably Jill Biden because she's about to ruin Democrat chances for the presidency. If you think the Supreme Court is bad now .... Just wait for 4 more years of Trump.
My wife's grandpa is 92 years old and sharp as a tack. He's almost completely blind but he could absolutely crush Biden in a debate, I don't think he's lost hardly any mental acuity from when I first met him 25 years ago. On the other hand, her grandma was almost completely gone, mentally speaking, when she died in her early 80's. Alzheimer's hit her hard. In a sane world we wouldn't have breathing corpses like Biden and Feinstein holding on to office when they're clearly mentally unfit. Barring them and the people around them actually doing the right thing, I wish we could pass a law requiring politicians to take yearly mental acuity testing, and have the results publicly posted.
Do we have any judges about to die? Jill should have stepped in a while ago and protected her husband from this, but I’m guessing she doesn’t have the ability to
Thomas and Alito will both retire before the end of Trump's presidency if he is elected. They will be paid extremely handsomely to do so and will be flown around by Leonard Leo and his ilk on free vacations for the rest of their days
Thomas is probably the next to go. He's closing in on 80. But he also strikes me as the type to ride it until the grave just so he can get the maximum fucking of everyone not wealthy in.
That stink meaner mf is going to live until he’s 105 just to spite us
The Biden family is convincing Joe to stay in the race. I'm thinking they like all the perks of having a husband / dad for President. And yeah it's hard to predict when Supreme Court Justices will die or retire. It's usually old age, but not always.
His whole family is incredibly insular and incredibly proud. A bad combo for humble and logical decision making.
The presidency ages everyone. He has been hit especially the last year or so. I always said I would support his first run, right the ship and then step aside. Give the dems three years to elevate and groom other options. But nope. None of that happened. And now here we are. About to elect someone who either has zero respect for democracy or is delulu.
Amen to that!
> Yeah cognitive decline affects everyone at different ages, to different degrees. And it was obviously affecting Biden at 77, just not nearly as bad.
Now i'll just have to satisfy myself with the fact that he isn't a convicted felon who is trying to tear down our government. He can drool in the corner all he wants and it will still be a huge improvement.
Have to agree unfortunately.
It feels as if Lloyd has been in public office my entire 38-year life. Can't remember a time without him there.
I'm going to suggest that being 77 and a US rep is less sensitive than sundowning while being president of the united states.
Yep. Doggett ain't got the big red nuke everything button. He ain't got Putin and Xi and Kim and everyone else breathing down his neck waiting for a mistake to pounce. He doesn't have the security of both Europe and Asia as his primary responsibility. There's a lot at stake here and not just within our borders, not at all.
Any examples of Doggett looking like Biden in the last debate?
Totally different things. I don’t expect any of the 500+ Congresspeople to represent the US on the world stage.
McConnell practically reps the US on the world stage whether you expect it or not.
Wut? A Senator is no where near a President when it comes to international affairs. I personally think there should be a hard age limit of 70 while in office, just saying it’s a weird whataboutisim.
McConnell is the head of the Republicans in the Senate (where real power in this country resides).
Also he doesn't speak incoherently
Next up: Criticizing and calling for others to take "action" while failing to define what the "action" is.
to be fair being a congressman is way less draining (and has less impact) than being POTUS. i don’t think doggett is necessarily being hypocritical here
If he is showing any signs of cognitive decline, please point them out.
For real, I first met Lloyd on a 7th grade school trip to D.C. to meet my representative.... In 1998.
I met him at my high school bicentennial celebration. 1976.
Thanks to his age probably has no fucks left to give and doesn't fear retaliation from the DNC. Pretty funny he beat the "The Squad" to the punch here
It's not because Biden's old, it's because he will lose. Doggett has won fifteen elections in a row.
Doggett's district is mainly solidly democratic voters though. Yes, he has survived quite a lot of redistricting and shown some cross over appeal in past years, but the same can be said of Biden. For background, I didn't want Biden and did not vote for him in the primary, but he is who was selected as the democratic candidate per the process.
Dogget has won in gerrymandered districts. It's a far cry from a statewide general.
\>Doggett has won fifteen elections in a row. The Republicans have gerrymandered all the districts so our elections for almost all of them resemble voting in the Soviet Union. (Yes, the Soviet Union had "elections.") Next they're planning to end one person, one vote for all statewide offices. Instead the winner will be who won the most counties in the state. That means about 2% of the population will elect the governor, etc. See: [https://new.reddit.com/r/texas/comments/1db861p/republican\_party\_platform\_proposes\_that\_only\_2\_of/](https://new.reddit.com/r/texas/comments/1db861p/republican_party_platform_proposes_that_only_2_of/)
Doggett was a main target of redistricting in the past when he was put in the district that went from Austin to the valley. Ive been happy with him as my rep and I always respected his vote against the Iraq war when almost everyone else voted for it.
Biden won the last presidential election
By a few thousand votes in 3 swing states.
Biden won by 7 million+ more votes and had the most votes of any US Presidential candidate in US history. You can try to reframe it as a marginal win, but it wasn't.
Electorally, it absolutely was, and unfortunately that’s the only thing that matters in this fucked up system of ours.
You know very well that the election is won or lost in the electoral college, and THERE he won the election on the razor thin margins in Pennsylvania and Georgia. His seven million vote margin may contribute to his abstract sense of legitimacy, but it does nothing for him in the election itself.
Interesting whataboutism. Either his remark is correct or it isn’t. Shouldn’t you be happy that he didn’t let his own age bias his decision?
I know, right? You first Lloyd. Lead by example.
Dogget is also a back bencher. Same with this guy in Maine.
Being a Congressman and being the president are two very different things. The latter is a much more difficult position with vastly higher stakes. Should Doggett ever become unable to do his job effectively (regardless of his politics), one hopes he would step down, but he would be relatively easily replaced in that instance, and in the meantime having one sundowning member of the House out of 435 wouldn't be the end of the world. There is at least a chance that a sundowning president could actually be the end of the world. Additionally, the guy seems to still have his marbles for the time being. Anyone watching the debate last week, if they were being honest with themselves about it, could tell that Biden does not. As someone else said, cognitive decline does not hit everyone at the same time (or even at all, necessarily). It happens that Biden's decline is pretty stark and significant, and that puts his very candidacy at risk, among other things.
I hate how everyone is now acting like they didn't tell them about Biden and his age years ago. When Jon Stewart said the same thing in his return to the Daily Show months ago the Dems and other people on the left excoriated him. It seems like to little too late for this "I told you so".
He should either go on multiple shows and do live/unedited interviews, or he should leave the race. I don't think there's a third choice.
exactly, it is that simple, go full force talk shows, especially live ones where there are no edits. if he is capable fine, I expect our president to be capable of doing that. No age excuses, if you can't do it, step aside, period
Pelosi recommended this, either she is getting ready to throw him under the bus or would do it without directly getting involved. It does make sense and have it public so we can all decide what we think. I am 100% for this. If he really just had a cold this will clear it up. " :She recommended that Biden sit for multiple face-to-face interviews with “serious journalists” to reassure his allies. Biden has participated in fewer press conferences or interviews than many of his modern peers. "
Few have better political instincts in the entire country than Pelosi. She's proven to be shrewd again and again. She's outwitted her enemies again and again. She was probably the most effective Speaker in recent history. I'd tend to trust her opinion.
For real - aren’t democrats losing a great opportunity. Polls show consistently no one wants to vote for either of the candidates. So if Democrats put a good moderate that is well spoken and smart, wouldn’t that kinda be an auto win for them?
Both candidates have basically incumbent advantage. You'd lose that completely swapping out Biden right now. Remember most voters don't actually pay attention to politics or what's going on in that domain. They go off vague 'I feel good, so the president must be doing good things' feelings. That's why so many people think the president controls dumb shit like gas prices. So in short, swapping out Biden at this point makes no sense. Add onto just how polarizing this election is and those who 'pay attention' have already made up their minds on who to vote for anyhow.
> hat's why so many people think the president controls dumb shit like gas prices. there was a guy in this sub recently who said the Biden presidency was the worst time in his life, because his landlord increased his rent and now he's homeless. I said which thing did Biden do to cause that, and he said "not fight hard enough against the corporations". ??!!?? Which corporations? How was he supposed to fight them?
Socialist rent control, of course.
It's never been done before, and that's why they're so god damn scared. It's anyone's guess what may happen. I hate watching history unfold. I prefer the nothing ever happens type stuff.
I’m not sure anymore. We can’t risk a loss so I understand wanting to keep the known quantity but I can’t possibly imagine that 99% of the people voting for Biden wouldn’t vote for literally any reasonable democrat. However, the battle is very often won or lost based on 1% so I don’t know if switching candidates is smart right now.
it is all about the swing states, imagine the ads if they don't change, the ads with him trying to talk to XI or the 3am answering the phone ads, if he has dementia there is the "dementia evening effect", google it, He will get clocked in swing states by people scared, I was with extended family who are super liberal and they were saying how worried they are
Put yourself in an independent voter's shoes. Re-watch the debate. Watch the news coverage of the debate. Listen to the water cooler talk at work. Do you really think it makes sense to stick with Biden? Core dems may be able to overlook his issues, but that's not enough to win an election, and that gap is a lot more than the 1% you seem to think it is.
It's more about who will be the VP and if the VPs will list who they would pick as their replacements.
The last time an incumbent left then race (and it was still during the primaries) we got Nixon. Biden leaving the race now would create a lot of chaos and uncertainty and pretty much guarantee a Trump presidency. It is extremely irresponsible to call for Biden to step down now.
> and pretty much guarantee a Trump presidency If the election was today, Trump would win, hands down. That sucks, and it's mind boggling that it's somehow true, but here we are. So what do you think is going to change with Biden in the next four months? Or are you just betting it all on Trump choking on a burger?
In terms of timing, I agree. The time to do this was months ago.
The bar is so low these days that a politician stating the obvious is a brave act.
How is it obvious? Biden sez "I'm dropping out as the Democrat Nominee." You have less than 4 months till election day. Show me the roadmap that still results in a better result than running Biden.
Open convention -> lots of media attention -> democratic candidate that’s not in mental decline
Ok. Who is that candidate and how do they as of this second polling against Trump?
There isn't a ton of data but Harris seems to poll about the same as Biden head-to-head with Trump. And she's young enough to wage a vigorous campaign and win over voters. Additionally she's probably the weakest top Democratic candidate - she has low favorability ratings. I don't see any reason to think Pete Buttigieg or Gretchen Whitmer wouldn't perform better than Harris or Biden. The biggest obstacle is name recognition but I think that will be overcome quickly. Honestly - I don't know how any moderate Democrat would do worse than Biden in November. He doesn't have the cognitive function to campaign let alone be president for four more years.
Biden was losing the polling before the catastrophic debate. This is not a primary plan, this is a contingency plan that we never should have had to consider because Biden should have followed through with his promise to only have one term and then hand off power. Whether he is trying again because he's a stubborn old fuck or because his handlers who want to remain in power are determined to do to him what Feinstein's handlers did to her, they are putting the Democratic Party and the country at large in a very bad position for selfish reasons. Put anyone with intact cognitive skills who's not a complete mess in his place. They will get votes for the same reason Biden did: not being Trump. It's not like people were enthused about Biden in 2020 either, he's as generic and bland as possible and that's what people were craving after Trump.
>Biden should have followed through with his promise to only have one term and then hand off power Biden never promised that at all. He was[ \*very\* clear ](https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/joe-biden-denies-mulling-term-pledge-elected-president/story?id=67662497)that he would run again in 2024 if he won.
> Put anyone with intact cognitive skills who's not a complete mess in his place. Thanks for proving the point - everyone just assumes "oh. We can trot out ANYONE and beat Trump!" Except you can't and you have to figure it out now before you open your mouth.
I don't think it's a guaranteed win if Dems replace Biden, but it's starting to feel like a guaranteed loss if they don't. Let's take a chance and try to win, even if it requires some chaos and hurt feelings to get there.
If you think biden is so far gone that he's *certain* not to win against the convicted felon, why aren't you (the collective you) calling for him to resign right now? If one bad night is enough to demonstrate that he's unfit to campaign, then it follows that he's unfit to serve. So where are all the demands to give him the boot? Because it seems to me that if he's capable of "presidenting" (and i've seen no evidence that he's no longer an effective chief executive), then he's certainly sharp enough to campaign. He's got a good record to run on and strong tail winds (Dobbs blowback, D+20 swings in special elections, etc). Democrats would be foolish to ditch him *now* when he's in the most power place anyone can be to challenge Trump.
Being able to run the country for the next four years is an incredibly different thing than being able to run the country for the next 5 months.
the fact that generic Dems are polling roughly even with Biden against Trump should be deeply concerning. The incumbent president should poll much higher. Polls as of this second only tell you the state of play as of this second. Take Biden out and elevate another Dem with tons of media attention and those numbers will change. Plus if you pick someone from a state you are likely to lose otherwise (Michigan cough cough) that's a pretty good move.
Harris has already started polling better than Biden in the swing states that matter.
Yes and she would be able to use all of the money Biden has raised because it’s the Biden/Harris campaign. Someone else would not just inherit that money. They’d only have money the DNC raised outside of the Biden campaign.
If Biden were to pull out, which I don’t think is going to happen, the only two choices I think could possibly be considered are Harris and Newsom.
If the line is “vote blue no matter who” because of the orange menace it is not crazy to ask for someone who is not showing decline. The main issue is we’re seeing what Biden is doing against Trumps policies and it’s not much. If you vote for him because of Project 2025 who do you intend to vote for instead of project 2029 and so on and so forth because Biden and the Democratic Party have shown that they are not looking to end the obvious issue but kick the can further down the road
The real question is whether Democracy can outlast Trumpism. If this election somehow doesn't result in Trump in office, then I struggle to think how Trumpism remains a viable identity after not 1 but 2 major losses. I think aspects and shades will persist but the cohesive narrative of "Trump - 3rd or 4th time is the charm." comes apart.
Trump is also quite old himself, so in a sense simply kicking the can down the road is totally viable since he'll eventually die and his personality cult will splinter.
Far right parties are gaining ground all over the world. As the climate crisis and the concomitant wars and economic competition deepen, so will the blame shifting demagogues find more power. This is only going to get worse, and "democracy" needs to step up instead of prematurely declaring hollow victories.
What on earth are you taking about? Biden’s policies and undoing a lot of what Trump did have been remarkable. He’s has the most progressive presidential record in history and has accomplished significant legislative and policy wins despite a hostile GOP and SCOTUS. He looked really really bad in the debate but attacking him as simply being “I’m not Trump” is just lazy and disingenuous. But to top it off. Trump and MAGA are such a unique threat to democracy that voting simply to keep them out of power absolutely should be a key issue. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=N8ibHZGXcr8 More of that energy and less of your snark.
The fuckin' chips act and build back better are one of those things people just don't seem to understand the breadth and impact they will have.
I honestly thought that's what the obvious plan was. They know they couldn't hide Biden's decline, so they scheduled these debates way earlier than otherwise would be, let him fall flat on his face, then the party picks somebody who isn't geriatric and in cognitive decline. Obviously, we'd need more debates, so we get somebody who is mentally there against Trump (who, while not showing signs of dementia, is still an idiot) and their performance would suck up all the moderate and independent votes. This new candidate will get wall-to-wall positive media coverage ("TO SAVE DEMOCRACY!"), so they wouldn't even really need to fund raise much. Seems like a master plan to win...if only the democrats had somebody who was likeable, reasonably recognizable on the national stage, moderate, and competent. It doesn't take much to be 'Not Trump'. Even failures of any of those qualities would be papered over by the media like they papered over Biden's decline for the past 3 years.
I am not a fan of Trump, but Republicans were claiming this for the last year and everyone, including other politicians and the media, were complicit in covering it up. It is no surprise for anyone paying attention’. Dems can finally just say it publicly now without getting crucified by their own party. Dem party leadership are actively looking to lose with how they have managed it. Anointing the candidates. No primary. Shutting down any dissent until it’s 100% undeniable… “Anyone but Bush” was a failed rallying cry in 2004 and they are hoping the “Anyone but Trump” will work this time. So frustrating
Quite frustrating but folks like Doggett and the NYT waited until end of June to say it out loud after a mediocre performance? The cowards should have been saying this a year ago and worked to provide a strategy. Otherwise, they need to keep their mouths shut or even better, pickup the phones and start explaining how "Biden's debate sucked but Grandpa Joe will pull out the fucking stops and clean the floor in the next challenge."
> Otherwise, they need to keep their mouths shut or even better, pickup the phones and start explaining how "Biden's debate sucked but Grandpa Joe will pull out the fucking stops and clean the floor in the next challenge." Except Grandpa Joe won't, because he can't. It's obvious the emperor has no clothes. Everybody on the democratic side was in strong denial or hoping it wouldn't show until after the election. This is the fruit of that harvest.
That’s my point. No one would say it out loud until it was obvious. Very definition of “Emperor has no clothes” story.
>Quite frustrating but folks like Doggett and the NYT waited until end of June to say it out loud after a mediocre performance? You want my cynical take on it? The NYT (and the media at large) is a bunch of cynical fucks who latch on to anything remotely interesting like a fucking parasite. You know why you don't see news articles about the deranged somewhat senile rantings of Trump? Because it doesn't get attention, he could shit himself on stage and a little bit than half of American voters are still going to vote for him. So the media feasts of the other side, the side that will bemoan and wring their hands and then have a bunch of old pundits and politicians talk un-ironically how old the President is.
Mediocre does not mean worst presidential debate performance in history.
Exactly. Biden had an awful showing. But more awful is trying to pick a replacement and get him the same kind of name and record recognition in the US as Biden has. That ship sailed at very best 6 months ago. There isn't any reasonable amount of time for that. Anyone picked will not have time to contest any astro turfing of falsehoods and blotches on their record from Russian bots
actually, it's not too late at all. the UK runs their election over 73 days, Canada 53, Mexico within 3 months...we're the only place with the years+ approach....
And do you realize how very different those countries run their elections? Also, those candidates are still campaigning and getting notoriety towards being the front runners well before that
You're not wrong about that.....but here's a question to ask ourselves: What would happen if Biden fell into a coma today? Would we just forget about the election and hand it over to Trump? What would happen is that a candidate would be selected at the convention...a procedure that used to be somewhat commonplace. From a personal standpoint (and as a longtime Democrat), i would rather go down swinging than face defeat mired in inertia and fear.
Few are paying attention to the Presidential race yet. There is plenty of time to present a slate of younger, well qualified candidates. Send them to interviews all over the TV and then select the one with the most mojo at the convention. It's pure gaslighting to suggest that there is only one qualified Democrat in a nation of millions of Democrats.
Having a qualified candidate is one thing - proving that they can beat Trump is another one. Can anyone do that in the next 3-4 weeks so they can buy the ad space, get the running mate and all the stuff that takes a year or two? My guess is no.
It's possible to delay long enough that alternatives are not possible, but we aren't there yet.
It can be brave to speak outside of your party line, but I think something like 3/4 of the country wants Biden to step down, and over half the Democrats, so kind of loses whatever bravery it would have had. Doing the same months/years ago would have been a much more admirable stance.
We can disagree politically but it is dangerous to have an obviously senile dementia riddled man as President. Who is really running the country is a shadow government, most likely Jill, Hunter and unelected advisors. Which has created a real poop show.
Agreed. This kind of thing has happened before, and also at a critical juncture in history that had some big consequences: [https://www.newyorker.com/news/daily-comment/woodrow-wilsons-case-of-the-flu-and-how-pandemics-change-history](https://www.newyorker.com/news/daily-comment/woodrow-wilsons-case-of-the-flu-and-how-pandemics-change-history) [https://www.pbs.org/newshour/health/woodrow-wilson-stroke](https://www.pbs.org/newshour/health/woodrow-wilson-stroke) I also really don't like this recent trend of presidential families getting a bunch of power just by virtue of being family.
Keep this in mind Doggett would not have done this without permission from the Democratic leaders. Going rogue is so not like him. He is also past primary in a very blue district, served for 30 years in congress. He is a nice person who cares about people and would not do anything to hurt the party. He volunteered or ask to do this. Combine that with Pelosi comments and they are trying to walk this carefully. If anyone knows how he really is, it is her. She would never say to step down, she let Doggett do it. Her comment questioning whether this is a one off and that he should do a lot of public interviews is her nice way of saying please for the good of the party ... I suspect the Democratic leadership is focused on not just winning the White House but the down ballot Senate/House seats. If Trump wins but Dems control congress he is limited, if Trump wins and takes Congress look out. It is all about what is best for the country. I suspect Pelosi knew but could not do anything until it went public which is what the debate did. I am sure people behind the scene have been worried asking him to consider and he said no so they needed this public event to get help from the public. Disappointed in Biden that he is selfish and not thinking of the country first. He said he was going to be a transition one term candidate and then changed his mind. That is where things went wrong. If he had stuck to that we would not be here and he could ride out in the sunset.
> Combine that with Pelosi comments and they are trying to walk this carefully. For those who missed it, Pelosi said it's a "legitimate question" whether Biden's performance was a condition or episode. If she's willing to say this - and like her or not, she knows far more about what's going on behind-the-scenes - I think it's safe to say plans are in motion to try to drop Biden. People need to stop and remember that politicians are among the most stubborn people on the planet. Strom Thurmond made it to 100 before he left the Senate. Rumors about Dianne Feinstein's state, and why she was allowed to keep going, circulated for ages before she finally died *at the age of 90, while still in office*. There are plenty more out there. As with athletes, there comes a time that you need to hang 'em up. I strongly suspect history won't treat Biden well if he refuses to step down. People can whine all they want about Trump's age. Doesn't matter. Yes, he's old. Yes, he's a shithead. Yes, he's now a felon (although Hunter's advising Joe daily, so it's a bit of a wash in that department). Yes, he at least seemed coherent last week, didn't need help walking down the stairs, etc. At least if he manages to have a stroke or otherwise fall off a proverbial cliff between now and November, a coherent Dem could exploit that. Biden would just make an awful lot of people shake their heads even harder than they already are.
CNN’s head to head polling has other potential candidates polling steadily a few points better than Biden month after month. While Trump is still winning those head to heads, they are within the margin of error and I think it’s fair to say that Biden has hit his ceiling. I believe the other potential candidates have much higher ceilings.
Agreed - the main reason Trump is winning the head-to-heads with other candidates is that they don't have any name recognition yet.
At least someone was willing to put his name on it instead of "a named Democratic lawmaker" or what's similarly been appearing in these panic articles lately.
Anyone watched the debate with people who are undecided? Lloyd’s not wrong. Literally any of the stable of governors (Whitmer, Shapiro, Pritzker) would swing the election. I say this agreeing that Biden has been a great president. Maybe the husk of Biden squeaks through, and I would vote for anyone over Trump.
I'm literally a never Trump guy but it was hard to watch. Biden is clearly beyond his prime mentally and it's getting insulting having people explain it away as a stutter or bad prep. Anyone whose had a grandparent losing their mental faculties recognized that in Biden watching that shit.
> people explain it away as a stutter or bad prep That really was insulting. He just had a cold, obviously. /s
>Maybe the husk of Biden squeaks through, and I would vote for anyone over Trump. This brings up part of the variable I haven't seen mentioned much. Dems don't just need Biden to win, they need to retake the house. Biden winning but depressing turnout essentially gives the house back to the GOP to prevent anything from getting passed for at least two more years.
There's no way that Biden wins and Dems don't come through in Congress. Many of the Democratic candidates are out-polling Biden. There's a surprisingly large split ticket population out there.
I heard an excellent reason for putting Whitmer and Shapiro on the ticket. They are both popular governors of swing states that won by a good margin. Flip a coin for who runs as president, I think they’d both go a great job.
but would you vote for Biden...even if his head was preserved in a jar of blue liquid? lol
Nixon won that way.
I'm so proud of our Lloyd to have the balls to say what has to be said.
It is but it’s also easy to do so at his age and tenure. He is likely on the way out himself
100% agree. I was starting to get really angry with what I felt was outright gaslighting by some Democratic leaders, asking us to ignore our own eyes and ears. This wasn't just "one bad debate" a la Obama in 2012. This was clear evidence of a man in significant decline - and everyone who's had the pain of caring for an aging parent knows that decline goes in one direction. There was a historian on CNN saying people who wanted Biden to step down because of his decline were wrong because "they're not doctors" and couldn't know what the future holds. I was so mad I wanted to punch this guy in the face. I'm not proposing I know what treatment Biden needs to minimize his decline, but I am a fucking human and the evidence of where Biden is headed was plain for everyone to see. I think it's a shame that it takes this much courage to state the obvious, but thank you Lloyd for speaking up.
Likewise. I called his office today to say so. And to say, "Thank you."
Same here. I feel represented.
I love Lloyd Doggett but who does he expect to run and how does he expect them to win in 5 months?
5 months is not nothing... the new Democratic candidate will automatically inherit most Biden voters, so will just have to win over a few more percent. I believe until the 70's the party delegates picked the candidate at the convention, i.e. the "open convention." No reason Democats couldn't have an open convention if Biden drops. It would be quite the spectacle and I think it would generate great publicity and momentum for the Democratic nominee. It would be the media event of the century.
4 months. I don't see it happening, though. Regardless, people need to get behind whoever because Trump ain't it.
> I don't see it happening If my unemployed cousin Lenny ran in Biden's place, he'd lock down a huge percentage of the vote. Nobody has to convince the never-trumpers. The issue is convincing the people who don't want Kamala as president, or convincing the lazy and unmotivated that there's a candidate worth getting off the couch for. Biden could hardly be doing worse with those two groups. What demographic would he lose by stepping down to be replaced by someone charismatic and energetic?
Harris now polls better.
Which is absurd because she is super unlikable. She has that Ted Cruz it factor with unlikability.
Once you are old enough to be forced to collect collect social security you should be too old to run for public office. It’s absurd that someone his age wants to work full time. You have to be a total megalomaniac to want these jobs. This applies to both presidential candidates and to Doggett.
This is not business as usual everyone. Age is a problem but it's not the issue here. On one hand, you have a criminal menace that wants to end democracy in the US and usher in a totalitarian christo-fascist state (Project 2025... look it up). If that guy wins, this is the last time your vote counts. On the other hand you have an effective politician and good human being that stutters and is old. During the debate, Trump did nothing but deflect and lie but he did so smoothly. Why is that totally fine, but being honest and inarticulate is a total deal breaker FFS? Look at the big picture here. This is so important right now because the people that should be calling evidence-based balls and strikes on laws that govern all of us are corrupt and use different facts to suit their desired outcomes (Gorsuch, Kavanaugh, Alito, Thomas, Barrett, Cannon, and many others). Read their opinions! We need a second term president to fix this s\*\*t... not further this rot. Do not be distracted by mainstream media and sleep walk into this. It is not business as usual. It's f\*\*king serious and it's a one-way street. Imagine a president that has narcissistic/psychotic tendencies and knows he's immune from criminal prosecution and is in charge of the most powerful country in the world... its military... economy... judicial system... think about it. Age is not the issue here. Biden has younger people working for him to do things younger people are better at. Intent is the issue here. Your life and prosperity and that of your kids depends you on you recognizing this.
I agree with you in that I will personally never vote for Trump but the simple truth is Biden will lose. There are enough people out there who don't see this issue quite as black and white as you do (i.e would vote for a younger Democratic candidate but not for Biden). The only way for Dems to prevent Trump from taking office is to replace Biden. If Democrats just fall in line behind Biden because he's better than the alternative, we will lose the election. Biden is literally trailing in every swing state, plus states like Virginia and New Mexico that weren't even considered swing states going into the election. We have to start making noise to oust Biden.
At this point, we're simply voting for cabinets. One cabinet represents more of the same do nothing much, bad policy politics of old. The other cabinet is led by a pure maniac and pathological liar with desires to be a dictator. He uses government to crush personal enemies and build personal wealth, has a revolving door of henchmen doing his dirty work and falling on the axe when the bill is due, and a cyclical barrage of lawsuits. He often brings out the worst in people with his rhetoric and is a menace to humankind. And his lone term so far has him ranked as one of the worst presidents in US history.
Thanks Lloyd couldn’t disagree more. This would be handing the election to Trump. A battle for a new nominee would be a drawn-out-free-for-all and except for Kamala none have been vetted. All potential candidates had years to make their case and none stepped up and committed, Adding in a new VP would have similar potential vetting issues. Trump being the con-man he is would easily exploit these new uncertainties. With Joe and Kamala we know what the issues are and they are surmountable for sure. Kamala would make a great President but the vast majority won’t agree with that. Having said that should Joe become incapable Kamala and the Biden’s current team could manage any challenge. We need 110% behind Joe and Kamala and better management of their events and communications. We should be able to get out the vote in a favorable way even in the swing states if we behave like professionals in a unified way. We need to hammer on the countless negatives of Trump and expose the weaknesses of whomever he has as VP. History says this is the only path to victory. The 10:1, you refer to, are not going to vote for Trump. Let’s be smart and compete competently for a win.
He looks like he needs to retire as well
Finally, a democrat with a spine! If you truly believe that Trump is a threat to democracy, it’s time to put democracy above 1 candidates ego. Biden is not capable of winning the presidential election. We need an open convention
Who is the candidate that wins? I don’t disagree that Biden sucks but what is the alternative? I hear a lot of noise about him dropping out and no plan after.
Harris might be the walking version of a human resources christmas card but she's still the best we can do, especially without betraying the base. Nothing else makes as much sense.
You don’t think the delegates can find someone better than Biden? Also an open convention is great for media attention. What’s the worst case, Kamala? Given what we saw in the last debate, shes likely to take the desk within 4 years anyways.
You’re talking about the same party that has gone all in on Biden. You now trust them to change horses mid race and pick a candidate strong enough to unite the party and beat a popular Trump? That doesn’t really make sense to me but I guess it’s sort of a “plan”…
It’s not about ego. An incumbent will always have the best chance of winning. A primary would also be way too contentious at this point in the race.
Did you like, not watch the debate?
I will vote for ANYONE other than Trump.
Please! Joe Biden needs to step aside before he RBGs democracy.
Replacing him would ensure a Trump victory due to the chaos and people not knowing his replacement. These public "calls" do nothing but make it more difficult. Lloyd needs to shut up and let the press move on to their next shiny thing. When asked about Trumps gaffe's do Senators and Congress men on the Right throw Trump under the bus? Never. They never trash their side.
This. Everyone _wants_ a different candidate, but at this point it would be a mistake. History is not on the side of a last minute switch like that, and the stakes are just too high.
Not sure if you saw the debate, but it was more than a gaffe. This was pretty much the first event of the election, and if it wasn’t a fluke odds are going to get worse each time he appears.
Good
I don't care who the Democrat party runs, I'm not voting for Trump.
I agree but shouldn't we run someone who can beat Trump? Biden will lose. I'd rather take a chance on another candidate than a guaranteed loss with BIden.
knew I liked that guy
Isn’t this a pot kettle situation.
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We should have an age cap on all politicians
And Doggett has been in congress for how many terms? Isn’t he like 80?
Biden was absolute last on my list in 2020 Primaries, and I knew we’d end up in this situation, but the congresswoman from Dallas has the better take on this one. https://www.reddit.com/r/democrats/s/9j4W8fl5Un
Dude's about 3 fuckin years too late to call it out. Everyone should've pushed against the run for re-election before/when it was announced and just branded 2021-2025 as a transition term for the next generation to take over as we return to normalcy. The problem is these old people think they're uniquely qualified to fix all the problems that they've caused. Doggett isn't any different.
The time to say this was 12-24 months ago. Saying it now is neither smart nor brave. A presidential campaign isn't something you spin up in a couple weeks and none of the people being touted are prepared to do it.
Pot meet kettle. Kettle meet pot.
Doggett says this but what’s his plan? …. Silence. He doesn’t have one.
At this point I’d vote for Jimmy Carter in his current state over Trump still. The absolute horseshit from the SCOTUS and Project 2025 should scare the shit out of any democracy loving American.
How does replacing a candidate even work? Say Biden does withdraw and the D's have an open convention where they pick a candidate - how does that person get on 50 state ballots? Aren't most if not all of them already pretty much set in stone at this point? It's not as simple as just plugging a new person in - our dumbass system involves 50 little elections, not one big one.
Candidates were regularly chosen at convention in decades past. Surely we can manage that again.
The ballots are not set in stone at this point. So it actually would be that "simple" from a ballot point of view. Figuring out who should replace him by the convention on August 19th is where there's a lot of different scenarios and where things could potentially get very messy. Biden has almost all the delegates but they can technically pick any candidate they want at the convention. Even if Biden doesn't drop out they could pick a different candidate if they really wanted to but that's extremely unlikely as they're very loyal to Biden. But if Biden does drop out then all their votes are up for grabs and that's where there's a whole lot of unknowns of who might get picked and how contentious that process might get. Gotta love living in unprecedented times!
I mean in the 60's and before that is how it was done at the Convention. Also when Johnson stepped down it is a very similar situation.
So, none of these people noticed Biden has a speech impediment before now? Calling for him to quit now is just sabotaging him and making the case for Trump (who frequently has incoherent speech). He’s not going to bow out this close to November. Democrats love to lose. It feels like they’re just controlled opposition sometimes. Any EU citizens want to marry me? I cook, I clean, and I attest that I have made at least some women orgasm.
Dude, watch his debates when he was VP and watch this last one and tell me that's the speech impediment. That's such bullshit.
Speech impediment? WTF?! Go watch Biden in the 70’s through his VP days - the guy was AMAZING! This is not a “speech impediment;” this is age-related cognitive decline. No spin can change that.
I’m sorry, but he was way beyond just a stutter in the debate. I’m still voting for the guy’s body, but there is a lot of rose tint on your glasses.
The EU seems to be going to shit too rn
Maybe I missed that day in class, but could you point out what part of having a stutter leads to a blank stare or losing track of the topic you're on mid-sentence in the middle of a debate? The guy literally wandered away from abortion as a topic (which *should* have been a gold mine) in his second sentence and started talking about immigration...*badly.* I think Biden has been an outstanding president and I would vote for him vs Trump in a heartbeat (if only for the quality of the people he surrounds himself with), but to attribute his debate performance to a stutter is extremely disrespectful to people with stutters. Cold medication is far more plausible than that, and it's only okay as an excuse.
It's Biden or bust. And we can't afford another Trump term. We need at least a Republican that believes in the rule of law.
Biden cannot beat Trump in his condition.
If Biden can't then no one can is my point. Trump supporters don't even live in the same reality as anyone else.
I don't think this is correct. Trump is much less popular than 2016. Biden is failing because of his condition
Amen to that. Biden’s hubris is a larger liability than his mental acuity, but we’re here. And despite all the children on Reddit who think it’ll be fun to bathe in the blood of our loved ones in a Revolution (See! Marx told you so!), I am a pretty big fan of a stable and malleable-by-process (yes, change is too slow - that’s how it’s built, dammit!) government over an authoritarian regime run by someone who gets his feelings hurt easily.
I love you, thank you for having a good take on Reddit. Those are dangerous round these parts.
Then its bust. He can't win. He barely squeaked out a victory last time, and things have only gotten worse for him and better for Trump. He lost a lot of people when he surrendered to the Taliban, he lost Michigan on the question of Palestine, and the economy has been mid at best so that's not helping either. He's more than lost the 10,000 or so votes that he won by in all these swing states, so if its Biden or bust, then Trump is as good as elected already.
Biden is not the Democratic Party, we can find someone better
what's this mythical perfect democrat going to even say to get people to vote for them. "hey guys it's either me or a literal dictator" it's been said a million times, nobody is going to care.
Honestly? Somebody like Manchin. Somebody who's shown themselves to be adults, not ideological, and actually has had cross aisle support. You pick a firebrand or a leftist and you'll lose badly. The idea that "more fight" is what the centrist voting population wants is absurd. The general populace is wanting a closed/controlled border; "tough on crime"; less spending and more stability. Hate Trump all you want, but his policies have been much closer to the mainstream than what's happened in the past 4 years. Even Roe V. Wade. (most people are fine with elective abortion in the first trimester, squeamish about 2nd trimester, and generally disgusted by 3rd)
Someone here actually understands politics. Platforming anyone but a moderate candidate against Trump is suicide. Manchin would be a good choice, actually. There would be epic hand wringing and whining from the more liberal base, but they’d still vote for him. So would centrists. And the commie kids would cut and run, but they aren’t going to leave their thumb boards long enough to actually go vote anyway. That last part is super unfortunate.
Not in time.
Says who? According to the “Biden or Bust” crowd everyone will just be voting for “Not Trump” anyways. What’s the risk then of bringing on someone else? Do you think all the extra media frenzy will result in less turnout?
It’s the same corporate democrats who gaslit people by saying a vote for Bernie is a vote for Trump. Same people did the “just suck it up this time and it will be different next time”. Meanwhile we’ve had 8 years and 2 next times and the two candidates are older and way worse.
In 4 months? We just had an open democratic primary. A little too late...
Historically candidates were selected at the convention in August. Primaries were just ceremonial
The only instances in modern times were when two or more very well known, strong candidates were in competition. And never when an incumbent president is running. So, this situation would be beyond unprecedented.
>Biden is not the Democratic Party I never said he was. >we can find someone better There is no one with a greater chance to be president against Trump. We have a few months before the election. It is far too late to find a new candidate. Especially against Trump. Again, it is Biden or bust. I will vote for Biden's fucking urn, before I vote for Trump. I don't see anyone else who has the popularity of support of the general American public.
Many people aren't like you though and just won't show up to vote, there's plenty of polls about this and noise around Biden that's just not going to go away.
You will also vote for Biden's replacement. Don't pretend that you and the other Biden's supporters won't vote for whoever has a (D) behind their name.
lmao news flash, the 'vote blue no matter who' crowd does not contain the same people needed to win the election. Like all elections this is about convincing the margin who will absolutely not just switch to a no name, younger candidate (which all of the other options are)
True, but the people who are needed for a victory are not going to vote for someone on their last legs, especially if they aren't fond of the vice-presidential candidate.
I think almost anyone has a better chance of beating Trump. Only Biden *can't* win imo
Name me one person who the public know, who has been tested, and polls well on either side There is only one candidate on both sides.
I think Whitmer, Newsom and Michelle Obama are all better choices. The main issue is that Kamala is such a terrible candidate.
Didn’t see one mention in this thread of Project 2025. It’s not about Trump, this election is about so much more. The Far Right have been playing the long game for decades. The Supreme Court is laying the groundwork for Project 2025 as we speak. The propaganda machine has clearly worked as intended because the masses generally seem to have no idea what’s really at stake.
At least one of the Texas Dems is not a coward.
# Headline: 77 year old calls on 81 year old to quit political race.
It’s not about age, but cognition. Biden could be 100, for all I care, if he was sound of mind (except he’s not)
I just contacted him asking who he'd nominate and how they could be proven to beat Trump. I also wanted to know him and his colleagues plans to combat Project 2025 should the worst happen. Biden isn't my favorite (and supporting the IDF war crimes is heinous), but only Trump or Biden will be president in 2025. The latter must win.
Thank you Lloyd Doggett for not gaslighting us like everyone else in leadership of the DNC has. My father-in-law tried to rebut having Biden step aside with the usual retorts “but look at what he’s accomplished” “but Trump…” and then ended by saying, “apparently he’s bad at night.”