Hey everyone,
We understand that not everyone may be interested in what OP has to say in their AMA. However, comments like "I don't care" or similar don't add anything of substance to the discussion. If you're not interested, feel free to skip the thread. Let's keep the conversation meaningful and engaging for those who do want to participate.
Thanks!
Yeah I know but I was thinking a lot of grads would be interested? Or people like me who are thinking about moving from big 4 to industry?
This aus accounting forum mentions it’s for people who are looking to work in accounting or are interested in accounting in general
Mate if I knew this irl, honesty I love to go for a coffee with you sometime. I have thought about going to deals, but I do think the audit pathway fits me quite well
I think my view is that the most underrated part of the audit skill set is the project management. Ie even when I was a staff 1, I was expected to manage the offshore team. Now that I am an s3, I expect the S1s to manage the staff, who are expected to manage the grads/offshore. When I went to senior camp a few years ago, the other service lines seniors such as Vals/ fin modelling would be reporting directly to a manager with no direct reports themselves. So my view is audit is inherently simple, but the teaming much more complex
Ex big4 senior associate too, hell I'm a senior FP&A manager now but I don't stroke my own shaft like you are - someone's still drinking the koolaid I see.
Could I please ask, what’s the % intake from some of the main universities?
Does a credit average in Melbourne Uni, have better odds than a distinction average in Deakin in securing an interview spot for graduate programs?
Yeah for sure, I hate how some grad programs expect grads to pay for their own flights /accommodation for AC/interviews, so if zoom is an option they offer then take it.
Not involved with recruiting, but I would doubt it. You don’t even need an accounting major to apply anymore. Ultimately it’s just luck since hr filtering can be random. I know in assessment centres interviews it would barely matter since, most managers are laterals from other offices (not Australians) so unis wouldn’t matter - it’s not like law or ib which really do care about this stuff
I rubbish this profession quite often, but I think it’s useful to have people like you do this. It’s helpful, I know I would have appreciated something like this when I was going through all the accounting BS at uni.
Not sure why you're receiving such derision. I would have loved to have asked questions of an audit senior when I was in uni. Thanks for trying to be helpful.
Thanks Mate, I think I would’ve appreciated something like before I started as well. Sometimes I think it’s too easy to get sucked up in the negatives.
I will graduate in about 6 months. What would you recommend my first step be? Shoud I do a masters and Phd? Should I work towards a CA or CPA licence?
Also, I want to eventually end up as an internal auditor. What type of company should I join for that?
And finally, any tips or advice that you would give that everyone should know? Like, I wouldn't know what to ask since I don't know anything right about the industry, so any advice would work a great deal for me.
If you have your bachelor in accounting then you should stop there.
For b4 ca is the way to go.
I’d say external Audit is probably the best place to start as I think it’s a lot easier to entry into and should be easier to exit to IA because IA, is a small function of a business (in comparison to the entire finance arm), the only place I can think that would hire IA grads in big numbers is potentially some consulting firms ie b4, Accenture, protiviti who companies might outsource their IA function to.
You want to DM me? we could have a chat and if you're keen. Obviously you have some interest in audit and have done a bit of research already which is things i love to see in grads rather then the standard (i want to work in audit because everyone said its a good ). I reckon I might be able to really help you out
Depends on the industry and what the client wants. Some big clients I work on for a third of the year, some of them are 6 week jobs. I’d be visiting them from twice a week to every day depending on where the audit is at or client preferences
Assuming you want to do audit, happy for you to send your resume to me, and I can get in touch with one of the partners who focus on grad/lateral recruitment. If you want to stay in tax, I also few of the the guys, so they’ll be able to point you from there.
If you want to stay audit, keep in mind that I think you’d come in at staff 2 rank.
I'm going to assume that you're making anywhere between 140-170k based on your experience and current role as an in-house accountant in an ASX 50 company?
What's working as an in-house accountant in an ASX 50 company like?
So I came from industry and moved to audit taking a roughly 20k pay cut. I think a realistic amount of money for an industry accountant < 4 years experience is $120 (based on the exits of people I know)
Also is industry a genuine 9-5?
When y'all pull overtime, how much overtime is expected as an industry accountant?
Also what motivated you to pivot to audit from industry?
I've always wanted to start off in audit then fuck right off to industry for the money
I think it’s always an interesting question when it comes to OT. Working in industry, we would often do weekends and midnight finishes to get month end done. Management is always expected to do more (b4 or otherwise) but then it depends how ambitious the individual is as well.
Company culture matters a lot as well, my buddy who went to private earns 110 working 37.5 where another S2 is on 130, but would work way more as a fin accountant.
In regards to going to audit, I think I was bored in my role and a noted a lot of senior people in my company had done b4. My boss suggested giving it a go, so I thought why not. So far it’s working out for my lifestyle
I initially assumed financial accounting is a 9-5 job, with only overtime for month and year end reporting. Turns out my assumption was wrong.
Is it a easy job by any means?
Comes down to lifestyle choice in my view, current issue is b4 is struggling to recruit since the pay is 10/15% below asx pay plus hours are far worse.
Fin accounting can be good or bad depending on the company. My friend left, she didn’t like audit but is interested in fin audit ie consols, group group reporting etc and works same hours as b4
If I had kids, I would do private.
I most likely won't be doing accounting at this point. What other industries adjacent to commerce/business besides insurance or banking would you recommend for me since I failed to get into b4/Top 30 audit grad programs? (I've made it to the interview stage for several and got rejected post AC)?
Sorry to hear that, but it’s very tricky at the moment considering the economy. I would consider going onto seek and looking for an assistant accountant role. It’s easy to forget that there are lots of roles outside of designated grad programs. after that would be ap/ar assistant roles, since they would normally blend into assistant accountant at some point in time if you can prove your worth to the business.
Assistant Accountant roles generally require at least 1 to 3 YOE in AP/AR/Accounts Clerk/Accounts Assistant, or in PA, and some Assistant Accountant roles require exactly Big4 Audit experience (2 YOE), which explains why I really wanted to go to audit initially
My main concern with AP/AR is that I risk being pigeonholed. Hence why I'm willing to not even work in fucking accounting at this point.
I want to get into anything (in a corporate environment) which is potentially a pathway to clearing 110-120k after 3.5-4 years of starting my career. I don't mind not working in accounting at this point to achieve my financial goals first as I want to get a mortgage in 4 years time for a unit worth 400k
Ok if you're genuinely, interested in accounting, I think AP/AR is not pigeon holing at all. I know heaps of people who worked in that function that now work in accounting roles. The good thing about AP/AR is you get to understand Dr/Cr, accrual accounting, Journals (including Double entry accounting etc). A year of this will put you in a really strong position for a role in External audit if you wanted to pivot to B4/Mid Tier
Ignoring emails, first thing I do is a detail review of offshore teams deliverables. From here, I can ask the s1 to look into some areas come up with work allocation for the full team. Then start preparing for managing up. If I can keep the SM happy with progress report/plan for the week, then that takes the half the pressure off straight away. After that, reviewing files team has been prepared plus making sure I have resources for next week/month for the jobs I manage is pretty important as well
Potentially, I reckon though, my firm has had a few big wins recently, so we’re in a pretty good spot.
Interestingly we’ve had a few movers from tax - my friend is a b4 tax sm and it was interesting for me to hear that she pretty much had 0 excel experience since grad so i feel it’s more a SME field.
If you want to dm me your resume, I can give feedback for what are the most relevant skills from an audit pov.
Hey everyone, We understand that not everyone may be interested in what OP has to say in their AMA. However, comments like "I don't care" or similar don't add anything of substance to the discussion. If you're not interested, feel free to skip the thread. Let's keep the conversation meaningful and engaging for those who do want to participate. Thanks!
I'm good, thanks
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Yeah I know but I was thinking a lot of grads would be interested? Or people like me who are thinking about moving from big 4 to industry? This aus accounting forum mentions it’s for people who are looking to work in accounting or are interested in accounting in general
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Mate if I knew this irl, honesty I love to go for a coffee with you sometime. I have thought about going to deals, but I do think the audit pathway fits me quite well
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I think my view is that the most underrated part of the audit skill set is the project management. Ie even when I was a staff 1, I was expected to manage the offshore team. Now that I am an s3, I expect the S1s to manage the staff, who are expected to manage the grads/offshore. When I went to senior camp a few years ago, the other service lines seniors such as Vals/ fin modelling would be reporting directly to a manager with no direct reports themselves. So my view is audit is inherently simple, but the teaming much more complex
Ex big4 senior associate too, hell I'm a senior FP&A manager now but I don't stroke my own shaft like you are - someone's still drinking the koolaid I see.
I’ll just say, I’m happy for your success,
How many hours a week do you work?
Would say average 50-55h tbh
OMG SLAYYYY It's definitely worth drinking the kool-aid for the exit opportunities though
I’m a Husband and Father of Two. Please feel free to AMA too. 😂
Best thing that happened to you? >Father of Two
Yes 🙌 nothing could replace it
:)
Why are people being so mean lol. There's a lot of info undergrads/grads can get from a senior.
Could I please ask, what’s the % intake from some of the main universities? Does a credit average in Melbourne Uni, have better odds than a distinction average in Deakin in securing an interview spot for graduate programs?
Follow up question, does the Big 4 discriminate against those students who study online? Aka me
I would doubt it, again hr filtering can be random so as long as you can attend in person interviews - should be fine
Actually I'd be interested in taking a job in another city. Do you think zoom would be a bad option?
Yeah for sure, I hate how some grad programs expect grads to pay for their own flights /accommodation for AC/interviews, so if zoom is an option they offer then take it.
Not involved with recruiting, but I would doubt it. You don’t even need an accounting major to apply anymore. Ultimately it’s just luck since hr filtering can be random. I know in assessment centres interviews it would barely matter since, most managers are laterals from other offices (not Australians) so unis wouldn’t matter - it’s not like law or ib which really do care about this stuff
Respectfully, this is a bit like saying “Just bought a can of coke, AMA”. It’s an experience so generic that no one needs to ask you anything
I rubbish this profession quite often, but I think it’s useful to have people like you do this. It’s helpful, I know I would have appreciated something like this when I was going through all the accounting BS at uni.
Thanks, obviously there’s a lot of different areas of accounting you work in so, wanted to just highlight b4 audit in particular
Not sure why you're receiving such derision. I would have loved to have asked questions of an audit senior when I was in uni. Thanks for trying to be helpful.
Thanks Mate, I think I would’ve appreciated something like before I started as well. Sometimes I think it’s too easy to get sucked up in the negatives.
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I will graduate in about 6 months. What would you recommend my first step be? Shoud I do a masters and Phd? Should I work towards a CA or CPA licence? Also, I want to eventually end up as an internal auditor. What type of company should I join for that? And finally, any tips or advice that you would give that everyone should know? Like, I wouldn't know what to ask since I don't know anything right about the industry, so any advice would work a great deal for me.
If you have your bachelor in accounting then you should stop there. For b4 ca is the way to go. I’d say external Audit is probably the best place to start as I think it’s a lot easier to entry into and should be easier to exit to IA because IA, is a small function of a business (in comparison to the entire finance arm), the only place I can think that would hire IA grads in big numbers is potentially some consulting firms ie b4, Accenture, protiviti who companies might outsource their IA function to.
Awesome to hear. Thanks a lot for the advice man. Any tips on how I could stand out if I did apply and got an interview?
You want to DM me? we could have a chat and if you're keen. Obviously you have some interest in audit and have done a bit of research already which is things i love to see in grads rather then the standard (i want to work in audit because everyone said its a good ). I reckon I might be able to really help you out
How often do you have to visit clients? How long do you work on 1 client?
Depends on the industry and what the client wants. Some big clients I work on for a third of the year, some of them are 6 week jobs. I’d be visiting them from twice a week to every day depending on where the audit is at or client preferences
Looking to make the move as a compliance tax accountant in big 4 Nz to Aus. What’s your advice? I have 2 years experience
Assuming you want to do audit, happy for you to send your resume to me, and I can get in touch with one of the partners who focus on grad/lateral recruitment. If you want to stay in tax, I also few of the the guys, so they’ll be able to point you from there. If you want to stay audit, keep in mind that I think you’d come in at staff 2 rank.
Hey will send you a msg!
Can I PM you please?
Yeah of course :)
Sent! Thanks :D
I'm going to assume that you're making anywhere between 140-170k based on your experience and current role as an in-house accountant in an ASX 50 company? What's working as an in-house accountant in an ASX 50 company like?
He'll be on 95-105 as a senior associate. Potentially marginally more with industry experience but not alot
I’m a she as well :)
So I came from industry and moved to audit taking a roughly 20k pay cut. I think a realistic amount of money for an industry accountant < 4 years experience is $120 (based on the exits of people I know)
Also is industry a genuine 9-5? When y'all pull overtime, how much overtime is expected as an industry accountant? Also what motivated you to pivot to audit from industry? I've always wanted to start off in audit then fuck right off to industry for the money
120k is alot wtf.. *EDIT: it's definitely not alot especially after factoring in constant midnight finishes*
I think it’s always an interesting question when it comes to OT. Working in industry, we would often do weekends and midnight finishes to get month end done. Management is always expected to do more (b4 or otherwise) but then it depends how ambitious the individual is as well. Company culture matters a lot as well, my buddy who went to private earns 110 working 37.5 where another S2 is on 130, but would work way more as a fin accountant.
In regards to going to audit, I think I was bored in my role and a noted a lot of senior people in my company had done b4. My boss suggested giving it a go, so I thought why not. So far it’s working out for my lifestyle
I initially assumed financial accounting is a 9-5 job, with only overtime for month and year end reporting. Turns out my assumption was wrong. Is it a easy job by any means?
Seems like private is the way to go.
Comes down to lifestyle choice in my view, current issue is b4 is struggling to recruit since the pay is 10/15% below asx pay plus hours are far worse. Fin accounting can be good or bad depending on the company. My friend left, she didn’t like audit but is interested in fin audit ie consols, group group reporting etc and works same hours as b4 If I had kids, I would do private.
I most likely won't be doing accounting at this point. What other industries adjacent to commerce/business besides insurance or banking would you recommend for me since I failed to get into b4/Top 30 audit grad programs? (I've made it to the interview stage for several and got rejected post AC)?
Sorry to hear that, but it’s very tricky at the moment considering the economy. I would consider going onto seek and looking for an assistant accountant role. It’s easy to forget that there are lots of roles outside of designated grad programs. after that would be ap/ar assistant roles, since they would normally blend into assistant accountant at some point in time if you can prove your worth to the business.
Assistant Accountant roles generally require at least 1 to 3 YOE in AP/AR/Accounts Clerk/Accounts Assistant, or in PA, and some Assistant Accountant roles require exactly Big4 Audit experience (2 YOE), which explains why I really wanted to go to audit initially
I don't want to go to a small firm either, so this is the method I'm taking
My main concern with AP/AR is that I risk being pigeonholed. Hence why I'm willing to not even work in fucking accounting at this point. I want to get into anything (in a corporate environment) which is potentially a pathway to clearing 110-120k after 3.5-4 years of starting my career. I don't mind not working in accounting at this point to achieve my financial goals first as I want to get a mortgage in 4 years time for a unit worth 400k
Ok if you're genuinely, interested in accounting, I think AP/AR is not pigeon holing at all. I know heaps of people who worked in that function that now work in accounting roles. The good thing about AP/AR is you get to understand Dr/Cr, accrual accounting, Journals (including Double entry accounting etc). A year of this will put you in a really strong position for a role in External audit if you wanted to pivot to B4/Mid Tier
What does a day in the life look like, typically how long is that day, and what are they paying you?
Ignoring emails, first thing I do is a detail review of offshore teams deliverables. From here, I can ask the s1 to look into some areas come up with work allocation for the full team. Then start preparing for managing up. If I can keep the SM happy with progress report/plan for the week, then that takes the half the pressure off straight away. After that, reviewing files team has been prepared plus making sure I have resources for next week/month for the jobs I manage is pretty important as well
Can you get me a job? Trying to pivot from tax
Potentially, I reckon though, my firm has had a few big wins recently, so we’re in a pretty good spot. Interestingly we’ve had a few movers from tax - my friend is a b4 tax sm and it was interesting for me to hear that she pretty much had 0 excel experience since grad so i feel it’s more a SME field. If you want to dm me your resume, I can give feedback for what are the most relevant skills from an audit pov.