Sorcerer is better at dealing damage, landing cc, and I guess support if you count twin haste.
Wizard has more utility since you can swap out spells at will and learn everything from spell scrolls.
Also abjuration wizards are tanky as shit, evocations wizards can do artistry of war and magic missile shenanigans by adding your spell modifier to each middle, same with magic missile (it needs to be said though that technically if a sorc build for magic missile and quickened cast magic missile it would do slightly more damage than a wizards magic missile but would consume way more resources to do it).
Necromancy wizards can summon armies, the others I haven’t messed with so I don’t know
Divination Wizards are incredible
Just beat Honor Mode last night and the Portent dice are beyond clutch
I changed the dragon's save to a fail on Hold Monster, among countless other examples through the run
Right? Double awesome with any paladin, as a lot of the smite spells have you jump in the air, but with luck of the far realms and divine smite your character is usually stuck in mid-air about to absolutely smash something. It's so great!
Also, even out of combat, pali animation while aiming a smite spell is BADASS. We have numerous screenshots of the boys lined up while my character is power posing like he's staying outta He-man.
Not really. It was the playfully frustrated kind of mad. We're currently doing our Honor Mode run now.
They couldn't be mad when I was able to one-tap Kethric on my Paladin to start off his boss fight.
Me over here playing a sorcadin with "ask to smite" turned on.
The boiz were honestly just amused to see like 6 different reaction options every time i bonked an enemy.
They also just thought it was endlessly entertaining watching me nova a boss for 100+ damage per attack, so we're all just having fun here.
That's a legit dude right there, from experience the real pain is when the div wizards isn't paying attention not on their turn and you have to tell them there's a pop up nearly every time. Hey it's like actual DND so immersive.
If someone were to tell you that there's a difference between 'which' and 'witch' would you realize why you're getting downvoted?
Edit: not that I've downvoted you, since I didn't.
Looking at the position of the letters on my keyboard and how common 'witch' is, I'm not seeing how or why autocorrect would have changed 'witch' to 'which'.
And entertainment is entertaining, even if it is low-grade.
Divination Wizard is the only way to guarantee you get that sword off Voss first try in honor mode Act 1. Keep an eye on your portents and once you get one high enough send your invisible batttlemaster fighter with oil of accuracy, bless, and Hill giant strength in to get a guaranteed successful disarm attack.
Unrelated but I also completed Honor mode for the first time last night 🥲 now playing my honor mode durge playthrough. All that stress and fleeing from combat for a virtual d20 was so worth it.
My favorite combo is Evo wizard. Fire wall. Cause it's evocation your party can freely walk in and out of it.
Combine it with astral tadpole >black hole with the bonus action buff.
Boom. Hell on earth.
I thought my sorcerer was bugged till about act 2 before I read the description again and realised they aren't the same. I respecced her and gave her a couple of wizard levels for Evocation. I figured Gale probably taught her a thing or two.
Hrm, I thought the description said: *They can create pockets of safety within their Evocation spells, meaning that allies will automatically succeed their Saving Throws from the effects of these spells and take no damage.*
Is the "take no damage" broken?
Yes, that is how "sculpt spells" works. However, I was mentioning the sorcerer metamagic "careful spell". They appear similar, but are quite different in effect.
Fair enough.
The original comment I had replied to was listing the various traits of the different wizard circles. I was just intending to add to their evocation description.
I can see how your clarification is needed, though. Your comment initially said "it" can cause half damage and break concemtration. I assumed "it" referred to "sculpt spell", thus my confusion. Your edit makes your intent more obvious, so that's appreciated.
"and take no damage"
no, it works. If you cast an evocation spell that does something other than damage, as an evoker wizard, your allies *both* automatically pass any save *and* take no damage even if they would. for example I was looking at playing a fairy evoker in TT as they get faerie fire (an evocation spell) and can choose the casting stat so I could add int-based FF to my blast spells.
Gust of wind is a big one in BG3 but since it is just a one turn pushback instead of concentration for up to 10 turns it isn't as good as it should be (IMO)
I always think that everyone playing this game has a dnd background for some reason and reading stuff like this always surprises me. But the game got really big, It shouldn't be a surprise.
Funnily enough, I do have a D&D background lmao so I think I might just be dumb for not seeing if it was similar to 5e spell wise. I also tend to primarily play Martial classes in 5e so far so I don’t have much experience on the caster side.
Oh yeah, 5e was great for growing the hobby BECAUSE of how simple of a game it is (and WotC mainstreaming tactics). I give it full credit where credit is due. That said, it feels like a video game set to "story" or "easy" mode.
I always think everyone playing this game has a superior AD&D/3.5e background where, you couldn't change spells at a whim willy-nilly and casters weren't completely crippled by the concentration mechanic
2e here. No short rests, casters had to prepare the spells they were going to use for the day by spending their rest time memorizing them, so no swapping out prepared spells at will through the day/outside of combat. There were cantrips but if I remember right, none that were usable/useful in combat.
I ended up homebrewing something similar to how 5e magic works, including short rests, because no one ever wanted to play any kind of caster in my group otherwise unless we started at like level 5+ so they at least didn't feel like they were completely useless after the first fight and they used up their 2 spells for the day. Who wants to be the squishy 4hp mage running into melee wearing a robe and wielding a knife or staff because they've got little else they can do to contribute to combat?
Although my homebrew had no limit to the number of short rests, and refreshed spell slots for all casters up to their spellcasting stat bonus, but unless they were in town each short rest could potentially be interrupted by an encounter which would also interrupt any spell slots getting replenished.
I have never played DnD before and that was my biggest criticism of the game. It literally doesn't example anything, just assumes prior knowledge. I had to watch a tutorial video on YouTube to understand half of the mechanics.
Level 10 wizard gets the passive ability that any evocation spell you cast has your int modifier added to the damage. So like your fireball will do 8d6+5 if you have 20 int. The cool thing about this is it adds it to every attack of a multi hitting spell like magic missile. This means a level 6 magic missile will shoot 8 missiles and each one will do 1d4+1+5 or 1d4+6. Works with artistry of war’s projectiles too.
It gets really insane when you get the necklace that adds an extra missile per cast so you shoot 9 missiles at level 6, the boots that add reverberation when inflicting a condition, the spells sparkler that adds lightning chargers per hit, and the rings that add radiant orb and then deal 2 extra damage to targets that are illuminated.
Basically each missile will add 2 radiant orb, that is a condition so it adds 2 reverberation, plus it’s illuminated now because radiant orb so 2 radiant damage, then 2 lightning charges and finally +5 because evocation level 10. Multiply that by 9 missiles. The target will also be prone of it survives because once reverberation explodes it deals thunder damage and knocks prone. Also guaranteed to hit with no saves or anything (actually they can save on some of the extra effects but not the missiles or the straight damage)
You can do all that with artistry of war as well. It can also be done with
I assume that last bit should be, "it can also be done with *scorching ray*"
There is a pair of gloves that give some nice buffs to spells, extra damage with attacks, and allows you to cast rays of fire *cantrip* (this is 3 projectile burst shot similar to scorching ray, but a cantrip), but if using reverb gloves then obviously can't use these.
There is also the hand handcrossbow ne'er misser or whatever it is called that is sold by the gnome or halfling merchant that progresses throughout the game with you (believe her last name is moonglow). It gives you a level 3 magic missile charge
There is also the hand crossbow that will give you a cast of level 3 scorching ray charge. It is dropped by yurgir at gauntlet of shar
if you arent an evoker, magic missiles is still a pretty weak spell and mostly useful for forcing lots of concentration checks. If you ARE an evoker (10+) MM is just a badass nuke that you can spend pretty much all your slots on and not feel like you're wasting it. Although personally I like scorching ray since it can crit.
Forcing the enemy to roll a 1 or a 2 >>>> disadvantage on the roll. And wizard also has better cc spells.
Sorcerer is better at dealing damage.
if you’ve succeeded the zaik’thisk checks, you can use ilithid powers (int scaling) as bonus actions, rendering quicken far less powerful.
I think this is what it is… if you are talking about spells, there are only a set number of ones you will use with regularity and if you want to do pure damage dealing/CC, then Sorcerer is probably the play if you know exactly what those spells are.
Wizards are good if you start to dip into Abjuration/Divination or want to do summons. I’ve not done Divination but the Portent dice like game deciders for honor mode.
Artistry of War is so busted lol. It took a lot of setup but I destroyed Orin while all of her ritual casters were still concentrated. I didn’t even realize it was an achievement lol.
Your friends have probably not heard or seen what an abjuration wizard can do, probably have never had a fight clutched by the portent dice of a divination wizard and more than certainly have never experienced the sheer destructive power of a level 10 evocation wizard casting artistry of war.
Don't get me wrong sorcerers are ridiculously powerful, and since their main stat is charisma they make for good main characters and party faces, but that does not make wizards weak at all, in fact on my first honour mode play trough, in a party with a tavern brawler monk, a gloomstalker/assassin ranger and a paladin 2 /swords bard 10, my MvP was the pure evocation wizard 12.
Also, sorcerer take a bit to come online and have a slow start (usually starting to get strong after level 6) a divination wizard or abjuration wizard is strong right from level 2.
As long as you have spell castor levels you can learn all of the wizard spells up to that castor level you’ve acquired. So if you’re 1 cleric 11 wizard you’ve got 12 castor levels. If you’re 6 wizard 6 barbarian then you’ve only got 6 castor levels. (Please don’t try barb wizard haha)
My suggestion for wizard is 1 tempest cleric for heavy armour proficiency and 11 wizard divination for portent die . Shield counterspell and whatever damage you want to do along side of it !
Edit: a word
Edit 2: reword the word
Agree with everything you said, I absolutely love abjuration wizard, with 2 levels of warlock for agathys and 1 level of tempest cleric it's the tankiest build in the game afaik, and evocation wizard is just straight up a mass murderer lol.
Advice: If you're really new, ignore a lot of the stuff here.
Not that anyone is wrong, but play the game the way you want to play it. On normal level, it's really not difficult, especially after level 5. Don't worry about making the ultimate most powerful character ever on your first play through.
Once you start eating worms to unlock the outer edge abilities, you also get access to Psyonic Dominance which is a free Counter-spell. Not sure if that's per long rest or short rest but super useful to not have to burn a spell slot for it.
I personally equip Favorable Beginnings, Luck of the Far Realms, Charm, and P Dominance on anyone I can convince to eat worms. If you have a Wizard though give them all the extras
Plus, if we're still talking Sorcerer v.s. Wizard, Sorcerers will often rather spend their bonus action on a Quickened spell whereas Wizards don't have as many good uses of their bonus action, so you might as well let them do squid things with it.
Feather fall is usually useless in battles, but sometimes it's good. Would you spend a sorceror spell slot with feather fall? I never used. But when I was a wizard I just memorized the spell and used feather fall whenever I wanted, just had to change which memorized spells I would use,, use feather fall, and change back.
The same thing can be said about many other spells. Want to remove a curse? Change, use, change back. Yeah, you can't do it during combat and you can't use a spell that has a prolonged effect, remove the spell and keep the effect, but the versatility is huge. My previous Honour mode, I learned all the available spells with Gale, so I could change which spells he would use whenever I wanted.
For feather fall specifically, there are boots in Act 1 that have that.
The game is very generous with gear and potions that provide utility, which kind of undermines that need for flexibility.
I like having a bard specifically because they can get feather fall and long strider. Sure, you can't swap it in and out like a wizard, but you're not really losing much on first level bard spells anyway, and you get to learn four right out of the gate.
It's not like you're losing out on magic missile or shield or anything
I think they meant known spell instead of spell slot. As in a Sorc would have to keep featherfall or remove curse for an entire level while a Wizard could take it for a quick moment and then switch back to a better spell right after
Yeah, but knowing the spell, using it and continue playing is better then looking for a specific piece of equipment who maybe you sold, or maybe you sent to camp, just to use it once and then sending it back to camp. Or carrying a huge load of items. Just change 1 spell, use it and change it back. It's my preference. I also think it's really badass.
I was playing with my friends and told them to gather around me coz I was gonna use feather fall. I used and then we continued. When I got the mystic carrion's staff, I just changed some magic so I could use a lot of lvl 6 necromantic magic. It's just some preference I have.
If summons/raising the dead is your thing, then sorcerer is useless. You can't pick those spells as sorcerer. Look at the spell list first.
The only competing class is spore druid if you want an army.
I recently finished a no charisma playthrough on honour mode. Ran a multi gloomstalker, battlemaster, light cleric, and moon druid. Tanked their charisma for better dex and con.
Charisma rolls were horribly bad and it was never easy to talk my way out of stuff, which made for fun and hilarious times. Get caught pickpocketing, time go run as far and fast as possible.
When I actually succeeded at a persuasion check the excitement was there. So in reality not having a party face can lead to more fun scenarios, plus you can use your other companies to be the face during their respective stories.
Go with the Wizard have some fun and be unpersuasive
BG3 has a lot of small changes that 'hurt' the D&D 5e Wizard superiority over other spellcasters.
To my understanding the only saving grace Wizards have is their classic 'scribe a spell and change it at any time you want' ability. Which in itself is a bit devalued by the existence of Withers. But it's still there for conveniance.
Sure there is a big downside to the time it takes to respec your character, but if you make a mistake in selecting the wrong spell, or really need to change your loadout on the fly that option is always there. And with how much of a money sink scribing spells is (especially if you play the game without strange game logic pickpocketing/knocking out tricks for endless money). Then it really drains your party finances.
BG3 removes free ritual casting of unprepared spells as part of the core Wizard kit, it also downgrades or removes a lot of the core Wizard spells (Find Familiar, Tiny Hut, Wall of Force).
I can provide anictodes of my X Wizard playthrough and how awesomely powerful it felt. But in the end BG3 isn't that hard of a game, and in most cases even on Honor Mode if you do die/fail it will be because of silly mistakes or bad rolls rather than the game difficulty.
I think a bigger reason is that in bg3, a sorcerer can literally cast 2 spells in a turn(3 with haste which the sorcerer is also good at). And since you have infinite long rests, you can probably do it every turn till battle ends and then rest.
I do agree with your points, but certain subclasses like evocation and abjuration have been buffed a lot, and can feel outright broken. Divination is pretty good too.
[https://bg3.wiki/wiki/Time\_sensitive\_activities](https://bg3.wiki/wiki/Time_sensitive_activities)
Free True Soul Nere is one of the ones I've seen most commonly screwed up by long rests.
https://www.reddit.com/r/BaldursGate3/s/lKL4Pe2Mkw
See that thread for a list of quests where things can change depending on how many long rests you take. It's fully spoiler tagged, just be aware that some of the small titles/descriptions might also be mildly spoilery.
5e spell system is simpler but I always liked how 3.5e did wizard vs sorceror. Wizard could learn any spell via scrolls but they had to prepare their spells foe each spell slot. You couldnt pick and choose what you wanted at time of casting. You had to preplan your availble spells at the start of the day. If you only prepared one lvl 1 spell slot with magic missile then you only had one cast that day.
Sorcerors had much fewer spells known and couldnt learn from scrolls but all of their known spells were prepared at all times. So you were not limited to what you had preplanned in your spell slots. Sorcerors also got more spell slots per day than wizards.
The best house rule we use is that wizards can leave some slots unprepared, and can use them to prepare spells during the day, at the cost of 1 minute per spell level.
So I would typically keep 1 or 2 slots available, allowing me to use them for sending, or locate object, or feather fall, or any other kind of utility that we needed.
It adds a ton of flexibility to wizards without making them broken. And when you prepare your last spell, you lose you flexibility until the next rest.
To your point on the coin cost, I finished the game with 160k gold without any exploits. Just picking stuff up and selling it. It’s certainly not a factor.
I've taken everything that isn't glued to the ground, pickpocketed/knocked out most traders to get their loot. Used a couple of working exploits just for a top up and don't have nearly as much as that. How?..
🤔
Nahh it is not that hot. Yeah in terms of min maxing sorc is stronger in terms of damage, but I found Wizard to be more fun. I like Sorc a lot for multiclassing, but Wizard is something I enjoy all 12 levels.
With wizard I actually feel like I am playing the game - I prepare for each encounter and especially in Honor mode it pays off. I have one wizard of any type in every single playthrough - either me or gale. Wizard is your wildcard.
It's either fun or cast twinned haste.
They’re not *just* a worse sorcerer, but they are definitely worse than sorcerers (from a power gaming perspective) in my opinion. As others have noted, wizard has several things going for it which sorcerer does not (summoning subclass, versatility/utility, neat symbiosis with illithid powers etc). I actually prefer playing wizard to sorcerer most of the time. With that being said, here are a few points/counterpoints (as to why wizards are worse than sorcerers) to some of the comments in this thread:
1. “Abjuration is strong/invincible late game” -
Abjuration is definitely strong and nigh unkillable late game, I do not disagree with this, but BG3 does not particularly favour tankiness. Even glass cannons in this game will survive most fights with a decent amount of health, due to the ridiculous lategame damage you can do with any reasonably meta build (I know it has become cliche, but dead enemies don’t do damage). Abjuration does very respectable damage too, but you simply cannot do as much damage as a sorcerer with quickened spell, twinned spell (haste, fireball, take your pick).
2. INT is a mostly dead stat -
There are few important INT saving throws and INT is used incredibly sparingly elsewhere, so having it as your primary stat is not ideal compared to charisma (which obviously goes hand in hand with passing tough dialogue checks, important in all difficulties and especially honour mode). There are some niche uses as others have stated with illithid powers but I struggle to believe this would be stronger than anything you can do on a sorcerer.
3. “Wizards have better utility/can swap spells on the fly” -
This is perhaps the defining feature of wizards in BG3, and it is incredibly nice (one of the reasons I prefer playing Wizard). However, lategame, you have enough spell slots to take pretty much any spell you could reasonably use in a fight. If we’re talking about pure power gaming, you’re gonna have a small repertoire of spells you use in a fight to do CC/damage/etc, and even taking into account specific vulnerabilities/resistances, there’s really not much need to be able to swap your spells before a fight; if you know what you’re doing, it is pretty easy to have a ‘one size fits all’ selection of spells. With regards to utility spells that you typically use out of combat (think feather fall), you find plenty of scrolls throughout the game so you don’t really lose anything by not having 24/7 access to these spells.
4. “Sorcerers are more resource intensive” -
True, but there’s a comical amount of food in the game. You can long rest after pretty much any fight you want.
TL;DR: Sweating your ass off in honour mode? Just play sorcerer.
Anything else? Just pick whatever looks cooler, they’re both good.
about the abjuration im starting to wonder if it is as good as i tought it would be when it basically just means my wizard is mostly untargetable by enemies... it does give me free concentrarion and immortality but is it enough to compensate the lack of damage and ease of use from evocation?
It depends. Evocation is a great skill that let's you safely throw damage and not deal with friendly fire. I preferred that to the gimmicks a sorcerer gets like twin Hastes.
Don't forget on forums people obsess about their max level characters with every artifact at endgame. Most people don't make recommendations on the 90% of the game it takes to max out.
To be fair, sorcerer can pick up careful spell, which does the same thing. It costs a resource, but you don't actually need it all the time anyway, so it's pretty fine
Evoker deals 0 damage. Sorcerer with Careful costs a meta point and still deals damage and breaks concentration.
Wall spells from Evoker are great. You drop it in round 1 making the whole battlefield a hazard that doesn't affect you.
A Sorcerer is someone with a natural talent for specific sorts of magic. They're highly competent in their specific respects, often more-so than a wizard. But what they gain in natural talent, they lose in versatility.
A Wizard is someone who has studied magic and learnt the craft of casting spells through practice and knowledge. They can be highly competent in many areas whilst also having good proficiency in everything else. A wizard can know an unlimited number of spells potentially and can prepare spells for whatever the situation calls for.
So really it comes down to this: without prep time the Sorcerer is better but with prep time the Wizard is better.
For example a Sorcerer might spec into casting Fire spells and become highly adept and doing Fire Magic. Whilst an equivalent Wizard might spec into Evocation and learn a bunch of Fire Spells.
Assuming they find out they're gonna fight a Pit Fiend tomorrow, the Wizard will do a lot better than the Sorcerer because at least he can prepare a spell other than Fire. (Pit Fiends are immune to Fire Damage)
CHA is not too important unless you plan on being your face for your party. Even then, you can cast friends to gain advantage on nearly every dialogue check. There is a hat in Act 3 that also adds your INT modifier to all your persuasion checks too.
My favourite thing about a face wizard is they can use Detect thoughts better than any other character in the game, since it's an INT based skill check. And detect thoughts is used in so many different convos that you will get your value from this spell all game.
I think BG3s "at will" respec system diminishes the values of Wizard at little bit.
The main class fantasy of Wizard is getting to play Pokemon with spell scrolls and catch them all, having an arsenal of spells at your disposal and a solution for any situation.
Sorcerer to me is more about comitting to only a handful of spells and specializing in a particular element, etc... In a normal DND campaign you'd be locked into this choice for the entire playthrough, with a chance to swap one spell per levelup.
BG3 respecs make it easier to swap back and forth between different Sorcerer setups so it makes Wizard access to more spells feel redundant.
your friends are wrong. They do different things, but even on tactician, you REALLY have to be trying to wreck your build to not be functional. It could also be that you're friends are pretty ....."unimaginative" in playstyles and i will say sorcerer tends to be a lot more straightforward/turn brain off cast fireball.
For your dark caster, it's pretty much Wizard Necro Spec. I'm doing a similar run right now and while i will say the first 5/6 levels are tough (you're pretty much just a wizard WITHOUT a specialization until this point) at lvl 6 it becomes nonsense.
With the zombie on the stick from the hag, familiar (shovel preferably), and your zombies (which make more zombies when something dies) your Action Economy (which is everything in this game) goes absolutely through the rooof and just continues to snowball.
Vampiric touch, cloudkill, and the other higher level necromancy spells also start to do work, and you still have the option to just throw the "classic" wizard staples if you want.
Not to mention you end up with every spell, fulfill a ton of utility, and as long as you don't dump cha, a 13/14 starting CHA while carrying friends/charm person/thaumaturgy/etc you can still "face" through most interactions with a little prep.
For a sorcerer, your pretty much going Fireball Spam and twin haste/full nuke, with maybe some control.
As others said, both are fine. That said, BG3 makes wizards a lot worse than standard 5E:
1. There's only 3-4 ritual spells, most of which aren't very useful.
2. The ability to dynamically switch spells is less useful because of respeccing through Withers and the fact that spells don't do that much in social situations.
3. Having your MC be Charisma is somewhat useful due to forced conversation situations.
4. The set of spells that are useful is pretty small. After the first few levels, you can basically have all of them on your sorceror
Not counting honour mode, you can make a sorcerer, add one level of wizard and learn all wizard spells.
Together with the int 17 headband from the ogre, you can add in a few wizard spells to your repertoire as a sorcerer.
Nope. Sorcerers are better damage dealing wizards if you build them correctly, but there's far more to a wizard than just dealing damage.
CHA is also extremely overrated.
I mean more in the sense that people think they can't play the game without a charisma based tav.
The game isn't ruined if you fail some speech checks. It's just a different story.
Proficiency in a social skill, flat 10 Charisma, and Guidance will get you through most situations. Add Enhance Ability if its really important/hard. Not like you have anything else to burn Inspiration on unless you are also disarming traps.
The Nizar build i'd say. 2 warlock (armor of agathys + armor of darkness) / 1 tempest cleric (thunder explosion reaction)/ 9 wizard (abjuration)
Buff yourself with the free mage armor from warlock to get your ward's stacks maxed up and focus on frost spells in combination with wet status
In BG3, absolutely. In my opinion.
What makes Wizards so strong in D&D5E is the insane amount of spells you can learn and have ready to cast as rituals at any time without preparing them.
Most of the problems in BG3 are solved through talking or combat. The Wizard excels at having a key for every type of lock you can encounter. But in BG3 there are only two kinds of locks.
That’s true for “encounters” but not for every challenge you face. There’s a lot of “puzzles” to solve outside of fighting or talking your way past enemies.
I just started a new playthrough (first attempt at honor mode lol let’s see how this goes) and I’m in auntie Ethel’s basement and thinking to myself “man all these poison traps would be easy to bypass with feather fall…..”. Or windgust. Or dimension door. Or telekinesis.
That’s just one example. There’s so many though!
Sorceror is to Wizard what Pally is to Fighter. You can blow through resources quickly to deal a ton of burst damage, but Wizard has the utility and strong subclasses. Abjuration School is probably the strongest subclass in the game. The main reason to go Sorc is Twin Haste, really. It's broken, but locks you out of other concentration uses making you very limited.
For power gaming sorc is probably stronger in some areas, typically by leveraging quickened spell for extra burst or twinned spell to double up with some good combos, but in general wizards have quite unique abilities depending on their chosen focus. Sorc can't really do minions better than necromancer.
For a dark magic user you might want to consider spores druid as well, but necromancer is quite good.
Wizards have 3 things going for them.
The best is the ability to learn spells from scrolls. That means they're waaay more versatile than Sorcerers or any of the other casters. You can only have a limited number of spells prepared at a time, but you can prepare new spells from you repertoire any time you're not in combat.
The next best is the school specialization: they range from good to great, but the Necromancy school will let you heal when you deal damage with necromancy spells, and at higher levels gives you more powerful undead summons, and more powerful ones. A must for feeling like a real necromancer.
Honorable mention is Arcane Recovery, which gives you some spell slots back. Nice when you're tapped dry, but not ready to long rest yet. Only half as good as sorcery points, but better than nothing.
Sorcerer is strictly more powerful
Wizard is more versatile
That being said, I have to agree that Wizard is basically worse in every meaningful way for even slight min/maxing. Almost no gear support (meanwhile any charisma caster has so much good gear), nothing that adds bonus damage.
Divination is fun and quirky for early game/honor mode. Necromancy has some good synergy but really can't do much besides summon a small army. Abjuration is good but very slow and boring (imo) to play- basically wait till someone attacks you after casting AoA.
But none of the supposed spellcasting roles like Illusion or Evocation have any good CC or damage compared to Bard or Sorcery.
Multiclassing is also a factor, when looking at the differences between the two classes.
For example, you might want to multiclass into something tankier if you're a wizard. I found that a wizard fighter was great, because of the extra turn. If you couple that with something like abjuration specialization, it's extremely hard to be taken down.
If you're a sorcerer, you might be more inclined to pick up a few levels of something like cleric or druid. That way you're expanding your versatility. Sorcerer paladins are a great option, as well.
Personally, I prefer wizards both for the versatility and the lack of a need to shore up that lack of options. Playing like a magus class? It only made life easier for me.
I've played both and are both fun to me. My go-to Wizard right now is surprisingly enchantment.
Crown of Madness has been a big crutch for me in my honor mode and when you level up to the ability to cast on more than one target it gets pretty entertaining.
Just gotta play the niche and see what you personally enjoy more.
The quick answer is no. The longer answer is:
Wizard is a better spellcaster overall for players who are more skilled and willing to do more work to get the results they want.
Sorcerer is the better spellcaster for players who want to easily super charge the power of their spells and want a powerful spellcaster without needing to think nearly as much.
Wizard needs a whole lot more good decisions to be super powerful and can be bad if you make poor decisions, while sorcerer is powerful with poor decisions and a little under Wizard with good decisions.
Can a Wizard output as much damage in a single round as a sorcerer of the same level? No, but the sorcerer will burn a whole lot of resources in that single round, to get a more powerful round.
Take level 5 Evocation Wizard v. level 5 Red Dragon Sorcerer both casting Fireball.
The Wizard can cast fireball with no fear of damaging their allies while the sorcerer can spend sorcery points to let their allies succeed the saving throw. The sorcerer could also choose to cast fireball twice in the round by spending 3 of their sorcery points to quicken it, but then can’t use a metamagic to also allow their allies to auto save.
The Sorcerer at level 5 will also have access to a total of 7 spells and 4 cantrips, if they are specializing in fire, then they will likely take firebolt, burning hands, scorching ray, and fireball, leaving only 4 spells and 3 cantrips available.
A level 5 Wizard has access to (at minimum) 14 total spells and 4 cantrips. They also can learn any spell scroll of a level of spell they can cast.
So if these two characters are going to fight an enemy that is resistant to fire, the Wizard can just swap to their ice spells for the fight. The Sorcerer can only replace one spell each level.
Will the sorcerer outperform a Wizard in raw damage in a single fight? Probably. Will a Sorcerer bring as much to the table as a Wizard throughout the course of a game? Likely not.
In both tabletop and BG3, Sorcerer is better when everything lines up for them, but they often don’t have ways of making sure things line up for them. A Wizard on the other hand is better overall if you plan for fights ahead of time and can set up the battlefield and your party to optimize the wizard’s strengths.
In the end, neither is better, but because of BG3s easy multiclassing and the way Wizard spell scribing works, for best results, por que no los dos? Why not both?
Take as many levels of sorcerer as you want, and as many levels of Wizard as you need and quicken spell on level six spells that your Wizard learned from scrolls, and for the most fun, toss a level or two of tempest cleric on top for destructive wrath on a storm sorcerer cast chain lightning on wet enemies.
My favorite damage split: 8 Storm Sorcerer/2 Tempest Cleric/2 Evocation Wizard
My favorite utility split:
4 Storm Sorcerer/2 Life Cleric/6 Divination Wizard
My favorite tank split: 1 White Dragon Sorcerer/1 Tempest Cleric/10 Abjuration Wizard
I'll never understand why people keep saying this...
They are two different classes, with different capabilities. Never tried sorcerer, but read enough to understand how it works, on the other hand I'm pretty good with my wizard, and I can tell you wizard is busted as hell too.
The sheer amount of damage and flexibility of this class is ridicoulous. You can change spells whenever you want, helping in exploration and battle tactics. If you already know the game and know how the fight will work, you can do so much things.
For example: barricade yourself in a room with 2 doors using magic lock in one of them, wait for the enemies to use the only door usable and destroy their asses when they grop up in a tiny space, using water on them and cone of cold/lighting or even glyph of interdiction (not even talking about chain of lighting that is totally busted)
This is just one thing you can do, but there are so many possibility. As an evocation wizard I practically soloed Ansur while my party watched me kick his rotten ass.
Every class can be broken if used correctly and the possibility to multiclass helps a lot.
To answer your question: Try wizard, it's very strong and has the necromantic flexibility you need to roleplay you evil character. And don't worry about CHA rolls, Just give you character competence in one type of check (I did a noble, with competence in persuasion checks, and did totally fine in my run).
I think wizard suffers from 2 issues, the first is that sorcerer is for the most part a better wizard and a better party leader because of charisma. The second is that any Tav wizard gets overshadowed by Gale.
Sorcerer gets better damage and dialog skills, wizard a bit more utility.
Ultimately if you play sorcerer you can take Gale in your party and don’t need to choose anyway. Sorcerer interactions with Gale are actually pretty nice.
Game Iinteractions . I’m really referring to roleplay here. LaeZel tends to overshadow a Githyanki Tav in the same way. Tav gets kinda overlooked in both cases which isn’t great.
Wizard is a Swiss Army knife and sorcerer is a broadsword
Both can kill a man, one way easier than the other, but only one can also tighten a screw.
Sorcery points are stupidly strong in the way the game works, but the wizard can use his spellbook to change through spells at will. In the game sense this also is kind of made less key because you can simply respec your sorcerer before a specific battle if you want. So yes all in all sorcerer > wizard in terms of killing stuff, but wizard has some amazing classes as well, necromancer or abjuration for example.
If you really really really like spell scribe, play wizard. Necromancy wizard is fun as well.
Sorcerer is just better in basically every other context, yeah.
Sorcerer is severely limited by its number of spells in its spell list and its known spells. For example, a Sorcerer cannot create armies of summons like your necromancer because they literally have no summon spells. A wizard in comparison has a much larger spell list which includes nearly every spell a Sorcerer has and can change them out as necessary. These spells also tend to cover more bases as well. So generally, in terms of spells, wizard is stronger than sorcerers.
Both have methods of spell slot recovery, but I’d say the wizards is better as it allows for the recovery of the spells slots without having to spend a critical resource like sorcery points.
This makes metamagic really important. The most potent metamagics are easily hastened spell and twinned spell, which lends itself to either being a blaster caster or strong single target spells (Haste/Hold Person). But these eat up sorcery points and spell slots like crazy so you’re gonna be resting a bunch after fights.
So I still think that the base class chassis for wizard is noticeably stronger than sorcerer. So if you take advantage of sorcerer you really gotta lean into specific metamagic and subclass options.
I know some people are really passionate about this subject, in my opinion yes, wizard is just a worse sorcerer.
For necromancer, which i dont think is that great in this game, although blasting free spells with the staff from carrion is fun, I think wizard is better though because of their necromancy subclass
some say prepared spells is a huge boon in order to swap out spells according to the encounter or in order to have utility spells at certain points of the game, i have never needed to do this though, especially if I run another prepared caster as my support like cleric or druid.
Maybe worth considering running a Wiz as a supportive caster but it cant really heal, but I wouldn't run it as my main blaster caster personally
Learning every spell from scrolls is pretty cool. I overall like the RP of being a magic incarnate more than someone who learns magic by studying hard. And again I feel like with sorcerer I get all the spells I really need, and even if i wanted one of the cool exceptions (shovel, artistry of war, spheres etc) I could just dip 1 level in wizard.
I would say metamagic is much more impactful than any of the wiz subclasses - your burst is just so much higher with quickened spell, you can do things like extend spell command to concentrationlessly CC tons of enemies with command, you got twinned haste, twinned chain lightning...
some people are huge fans of sculpt spell on wiz but i have never felt the need to have that, but its also a playstyle
Make stuff wet first, then upcast it as high as possible, if you can hold concentration you can redo for 10 turns. It can do a ton of damage. Also it’s AoE so you really want to hit more than 1 target.
Yes sorcerers are straight up better.
IMO they're better in general, but particularly in BG3. Both have their pros and cons but sorcerers' pros are better.
A big advantage a wizard has is multi classing.
If you want to take 2 levels of tempest cleric for a lightning themed sorcerer, you only get 10 sorcerer levels and you are locked out of getting level 6 spells like chain lightning.
A wizard taking 2 levels of cleric can not select a level 6 spell on level up, but they can still learn them from scrolls. Now you can cast a chain lightning that gets all damage rolled at its maximum value (this is slightly worse than doing double damage).
Now some will argue that a pure sorcerer can just twin cast chain lightning for double damage as well, but we can take the multiclassing further and just grab 2 levels of sorcerer and get twin casting as well, all while keeping level 6 spells since we can learn them from scrolls.
Now doing this you drop 4 wizard levels, so you can prepare 4 fewer spells, but you gain 2+wisdom mod level 1 cleric spells, and 3 level 1 sorcerer spells, and there are plenty of level 1 spells from there that dont require a hit roll or a save (will be bad since they use wisdom and charisma but you should focus on int) like magic missles, healing word, create water (for lightning damage), long strider, etc. A trade well worth it imo.
Wizard dipping into other spell caster classes, picking up their features without really sacrificing anything is their most broken feature.
Warlock with a lvl 1 wizard dip will give you all the utility of wizard spells , your strong evocation spells like fireball and lightning bolt ,
While having refreshing spell slots and all your necro themed spells
Just wear lumps crown for the 17 int , since your wizard spells will use those instead of cha like the rest of the build
They are two different classes. Wizard uses INT, sorcerer uses CHA.
INT is probably the least important and least used stat outside of this in the game. CHA certainly is used in persuasion checks, reducing shop prices and some saving throws as well. You can also just use the headpiece to give you 17 INT when you need it for a check or similar. So yes INT loses here.
Wizard is in theory a lot better than sorcerer. If every spell in the game was amazing and a must have, everyone would want wizard.
But the sad truth most spells aren’t very good. This works in sorcerers favor. They have a very rigid and limited spell list. But it doesn’t really matter because you’re only getting the best spells this way. And you can always use scrolls in other situations.
So in terms of battle damage the wizard really loses out. Necromancy also isn’t very good.
There are other wizard classes that can make good potions but those are more for camp casting use and not battle use.
So it’s not as simple as wizards are a bad sorcerer. But I usually reclass Gale into a sorlock if that says anything.
Early game up until like lv 5 or so, there’s very little difference beteeen any of them. They all have white limited spell slots, and wizard could be a bit better because they can get a few more spells that are good.
Sorcerer actually ends up feeling more underwhelming in comparison to wizard, in my experience both at the tabletop and in BG3.
The subclasses just *suck*.
With Wizard, I can scribe down Dethrone, Final Stratagem, Circle of Death, etc, and have a veritable arsenal of death just waiting to be cast.
With free cast abilities from stuff like Markoheshkir and other endgame wizard items, you can fire off a few free nukes.
Gameplay-wise, perhaps, but because BG3 is a proper RPG, wizard is better because of sheer range of spellcasting that improves roleplaying significantly. Plus, I reckon wizard allows for much more fun with all the specializations you can get. Sorcerers are edgelords, and that's reason enough for me not to play them.
Sorcerer is better at dealing damage, landing cc, and I guess support if you count twin haste. Wizard has more utility since you can swap out spells at will and learn everything from spell scrolls. Also abjuration wizards are tanky as shit, evocations wizards can do artistry of war and magic missile shenanigans by adding your spell modifier to each middle, same with magic missile (it needs to be said though that technically if a sorc build for magic missile and quickened cast magic missile it would do slightly more damage than a wizards magic missile but would consume way more resources to do it). Necromancy wizards can summon armies, the others I haven’t messed with so I don’t know
Divination Wizards are incredible Just beat Honor Mode last night and the Portent dice are beyond clutch I changed the dragon's save to a fail on Hold Monster, among countless other examples through the run
Halflin divination wizard with the lucky feat. Basically infinite rerolls.
Play that on multiplayer and watch your friends freak out at the popup every time a roll is made.
Yeah my friend respeccd because he was like "I know you guys have got to be so annoyed at me for slowing combat down this bad"
They got mad at me for just banking my luck of the far realms and/or executioner procs. I can only imagine the fresh hell that would send them to.
Bad friends. My buddy and I have pop ups every turn and neither of us care.
This is the way
Right? Double awesome with any paladin, as a lot of the smite spells have you jump in the air, but with luck of the far realms and divine smite your character is usually stuck in mid-air about to absolutely smash something. It's so great!
Also, even out of combat, pali animation while aiming a smite spell is BADASS. We have numerous screenshots of the boys lined up while my character is power posing like he's staying outta He-man.
I don't know why it would matter unless you're taking a long time deciding.
Not really. It was the playfully frustrated kind of mad. We're currently doing our Honor Mode run now. They couldn't be mad when I was able to one-tap Kethric on my Paladin to start off his boss fight.
Me over here playing a sorcadin with "ask to smite" turned on. The boiz were honestly just amused to see like 6 different reaction options every time i bonked an enemy. They also just thought it was endlessly entertaining watching me nova a boss for 100+ damage per attack, so we're all just having fun here.
That's a legit dude right there, from experience the real pain is when the div wizards isn't paying attention not on their turn and you have to tell them there's a pop up nearly every time. Hey it's like actual DND so immersive.
Currently cruising through honor mode one mate has divination wizard, which bolt always lands first round
which bolt landed? (this was a joke from my recent DnD campaign)
only way it does land is when you guarantee it, I guarantee it!
Woosh
Whoosh back at yea bud
If someone were to tell you that there's a difference between 'which' and 'witch' would you realize why you're getting downvoted? Edit: not that I've downvoted you, since I didn't.
Pestering auto correct is low grade entertainment
Looking at the position of the letters on my keyboard and how common 'witch' is, I'm not seeing how or why autocorrect would have changed 'witch' to 'which'. And entertainment is entertaining, even if it is low-grade.
If you have a Save-or-Suck spell/ability (like Hold Monster or Stunning Strike) and a wizard with a very low portent die, it's gg.
And if you have played the content before, you can wait for a suitably bad roll to use in that fight.
I only found out recently you can check what you rolled for portents Which means I completely forgot to do this before the High Hall
Divination Wizard is the only way to guarantee you get that sword off Voss first try in honor mode Act 1. Keep an eye on your portents and once you get one high enough send your invisible batttlemaster fighter with oil of accuracy, bless, and Hill giant strength in to get a guaranteed successful disarm attack.
Easier to just command drop and use portent to make him fail
Heat metal isn't guaranteed but it's how I got it to work, like a 40% chance iirc so I only had to reload the save a couple times
Idk what the stats are but my brother and I found heat metal to be way more reliable than command. Command kept dropping the crossbow.
Same, command is less reliable even though it’s easier.
Won’t that trigger the cutscene, though?
Is it not patched yet?
No why would it be? It’s not an exploit, they put a guy with a high level sword in there and while it’s difficult to obtain it’s fun to try.
Unrelated but I also completed Honor mode for the first time last night 🥲 now playing my honor mode durge playthrough. All that stress and fleeing from combat for a virtual d20 was so worth it.
Lol I'm doing exactly the same thing White Dragonborn sorcerer And it is totally worth it!
Just to be edgy I went Tiefling Warlach
Is that making Karlach a warlock?
The only downside is that unlike a tabletop game you don't get to see your DMs face fall.
Portent dice have saved me so many times on honor mode. That enemy rolled a crit? Nope it rolled a crit fail.
Congrats on ur honor mode completion! I just stormed moonrise and am about to do the final act 2 fight and am a little nervous hahaha.
I refuse to take portent dice because of popup stun lock
Evocation wizards also don't cause friendly fire damage with evocation spells. *"Fireballs all around, gents!" - Gale, probably*
My favorite combo is Evo wizard. Fire wall. Cause it's evocation your party can freely walk in and out of it. Combine it with astral tadpole >black hole with the bonus action buff. Boom. Hell on earth.
I forgot Fire wall is evocation, not conjuration.
I thought my sorcerer was bugged till about act 2 before I read the description again and realised they aren't the same. I respecced her and gave her a couple of wizard levels for Evocation. I figured Gale probably taught her a thing or two.
Yup, [that's why it's better than] careful spell [that] still does half damage and can break your teammates' concentration.
Hrm, I thought the description said: *They can create pockets of safety within their Evocation spells, meaning that allies will automatically succeed their Saving Throws from the effects of these spells and take no damage.* Is the "take no damage" broken?
Yes, that is how "sculpt spells" works. However, I was mentioning the sorcerer metamagic "careful spell". They appear similar, but are quite different in effect.
Yeah, I was talking specifically about Evocation wizards.
However, the topic is literally "is wizard just a worse sorcerer" and the careful spell argument comes up every time sculpt spell is mentioned.
Fair enough. The original comment I had replied to was listing the various traits of the different wizard circles. I was just intending to add to their evocation description. I can see how your clarification is needed, though. Your comment initially said "it" can cause half damage and break concemtration. I assumed "it" referred to "sculpt spell", thus my confusion. Your edit makes your intent more obvious, so that's appreciated.
No worries! I am too brief at times.
... in a thread about Wizards vs Sorcs. Their clarification was both timely and relevant.
"and take no damage" no, it works. If you cast an evocation spell that does something other than damage, as an evoker wizard, your allies *both* automatically pass any save *and* take no damage even if they would. for example I was looking at playing a fairy evoker in TT as they get faerie fire (an evocation spell) and can choose the casting stat so I could add int-based FF to my blast spells. Gust of wind is a big one in BG3 but since it is just a one turn pushback instead of concentration for up to 10 turns it isn't as good as it should be (IMO)
It does not save them from anything beyond the initial cast though, be careful with ice storm and wall of fire
“Another round of fireballs” -Terry Pratchett
TIL Wizards can swap spells….ive played 3 runs and just changed spells via reclassing LOL
Big oof
You know that clerics, druids and paladins can do the sale right?
Well I knew Clerics could, and never really used Druids or Paladins, so that’s good to know! I feel so stupid right now lmao
I always think that everyone playing this game has a dnd background for some reason and reading stuff like this always surprises me. But the game got really big, It shouldn't be a surprise.
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TBF, THAC0 was a thing in BG1 😄
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Funnily enough, I do have a D&D background lmao so I think I might just be dumb for not seeing if it was similar to 5e spell wise. I also tend to primarily play Martial classes in 5e so far so I don’t have much experience on the caster side.
Well you can be forgiven given how dumbed down 5e has made D&D. 3.x (and Pathfinder) for life! 😀
I miss my 3.5 :( but I will say 5e has gotten more or my friends playing so…hoping to convince them to the pathfinder side of things lol
Oh yeah, 5e was great for growing the hobby BECAUSE of how simple of a game it is (and WotC mainstreaming tactics). I give it full credit where credit is due. That said, it feels like a video game set to "story" or "easy" mode.
I always think everyone playing this game has a superior AD&D/3.5e background where, you couldn't change spells at a whim willy-nilly and casters weren't completely crippled by the concentration mechanic
Ahahahah I like how everyone has their biases. I'm too young for those days, I started playing dnd a couple of years after the 5e release.
2e here. No short rests, casters had to prepare the spells they were going to use for the day by spending their rest time memorizing them, so no swapping out prepared spells at will through the day/outside of combat. There were cantrips but if I remember right, none that were usable/useful in combat. I ended up homebrewing something similar to how 5e magic works, including short rests, because no one ever wanted to play any kind of caster in my group otherwise unless we started at like level 5+ so they at least didn't feel like they were completely useless after the first fight and they used up their 2 spells for the day. Who wants to be the squishy 4hp mage running into melee wearing a robe and wielding a knife or staff because they've got little else they can do to contribute to combat? Although my homebrew had no limit to the number of short rests, and refreshed spell slots for all casters up to their spellcasting stat bonus, but unless they were in town each short rest could potentially be interrupted by an encounter which would also interrupt any spell slots getting replenished.
I have never played DnD before and that was my biggest criticism of the game. It literally doesn't example anything, just assumes prior knowledge. I had to watch a tutorial video on YouTube to understand half of the mechanics.
How do you add the spell modifier? I never noticed that and I currently have a level 12 evocation Gale
Level 10 wizard gets the passive ability that any evocation spell you cast has your int modifier added to the damage. So like your fireball will do 8d6+5 if you have 20 int. The cool thing about this is it adds it to every attack of a multi hitting spell like magic missile. This means a level 6 magic missile will shoot 8 missiles and each one will do 1d4+1+5 or 1d4+6. Works with artistry of war’s projectiles too. It gets really insane when you get the necklace that adds an extra missile per cast so you shoot 9 missiles at level 6, the boots that add reverberation when inflicting a condition, the spells sparkler that adds lightning chargers per hit, and the rings that add radiant orb and then deal 2 extra damage to targets that are illuminated. Basically each missile will add 2 radiant orb, that is a condition so it adds 2 reverberation, plus it’s illuminated now because radiant orb so 2 radiant damage, then 2 lightning charges and finally +5 because evocation level 10. Multiply that by 9 missiles. The target will also be prone of it survives because once reverberation explodes it deals thunder damage and knocks prone. Also guaranteed to hit with no saves or anything (actually they can save on some of the extra effects but not the missiles or the straight damage) You can do all that with artistry of war as well. It can also be done with
I assume that last bit should be, "it can also be done with *scorching ray*" There is a pair of gloves that give some nice buffs to spells, extra damage with attacks, and allows you to cast rays of fire *cantrip* (this is 3 projectile burst shot similar to scorching ray, but a cantrip), but if using reverb gloves then obviously can't use these. There is also the hand handcrossbow ne'er misser or whatever it is called that is sold by the gnome or halfling merchant that progresses throughout the game with you (believe her last name is moonglow). It gives you a level 3 magic missile charge There is also the hand crossbow that will give you a cast of level 3 scorching ray charge. It is dropped by yurgir at gauntlet of shar
Yeah that’s what it was lol.
Ok so not bringing magic missiles on gale because I thought it fell off late game was just me being stupid
It does sorta fall off unless you build for it. But force typed damage is also good because very few things resist it.
if you arent an evoker, magic missiles is still a pretty weak spell and mostly useful for forcing lots of concentration checks. If you ARE an evoker (10+) MM is just a badass nuke that you can spend pretty much all your slots on and not feel like you're wasting it. Although personally I like scorching ray since it can crit.
I just love the guarantee of finishing off those 2 enemies at under 10 health.
it's automatic, it's the 10th level evocation feature.
I feel so stupid lol
Forcing the enemy to roll a 1 or a 2 >>>> disadvantage on the roll. And wizard also has better cc spells. Sorcerer is better at dealing damage. if you’ve succeeded the zaik’thisk checks, you can use ilithid powers (int scaling) as bonus actions, rendering quicken far less powerful.
to sumerize gale "Oh i meant you aren't schooled in magic"
I think this is what it is… if you are talking about spells, there are only a set number of ones you will use with regularity and if you want to do pure damage dealing/CC, then Sorcerer is probably the play if you know exactly what those spells are. Wizards are good if you start to dip into Abjuration/Divination or want to do summons. I’ve not done Divination but the Portent dice like game deciders for honor mode.
Artistry of War is so busted lol. It took a lot of setup but I destroyed Orin while all of her ritual casters were still concentrated. I didn’t even realize it was an achievement lol.
Second Abjuration - the AOA retaliation ice build is super fun
Wizards can learn all the spells and choose which ones to memorize before a battle.
I thought he looked a little Sumerian
Surefire topic to rile up 100+ responses here
Your friends have probably not heard or seen what an abjuration wizard can do, probably have never had a fight clutched by the portent dice of a divination wizard and more than certainly have never experienced the sheer destructive power of a level 10 evocation wizard casting artistry of war. Don't get me wrong sorcerers are ridiculously powerful, and since their main stat is charisma they make for good main characters and party faces, but that does not make wizards weak at all, in fact on my first honour mode play trough, in a party with a tavern brawler monk, a gloomstalker/assassin ranger and a paladin 2 /swords bard 10, my MvP was the pure evocation wizard 12. Also, sorcerer take a bit to come online and have a slow start (usually starting to get strong after level 6) a divination wizard or abjuration wizard is strong right from level 2.
Can a sorceror with a wizard dip learn artistry of war?
Yes. It won’t get any bonuses to damage but it’s a decently hard hitting spell by itself
Yes, but it doesn't add damage to every missile like Evocation Wizard can.
As long as you have spell castor levels you can learn all of the wizard spells up to that castor level you’ve acquired. So if you’re 1 cleric 11 wizard you’ve got 12 castor levels. If you’re 6 wizard 6 barbarian then you’ve only got 6 castor levels. (Please don’t try barb wizard haha) My suggestion for wizard is 1 tempest cleric for heavy armour proficiency and 11 wizard divination for portent die . Shield counterspell and whatever damage you want to do along side of it ! Edit: a word Edit 2: reword the word
Abjuration gets Arcane Ward, Divination gets portent.
Well shit my edit was changing that lmao I’ll re edit it again
Agree with everything you said, I absolutely love abjuration wizard, with 2 levels of warlock for agathys and 1 level of tempest cleric it's the tankiest build in the game afaik, and evocation wizard is just straight up a mass murderer lol.
it is, only class to destroy act 3 bosses butt naked. you can go you can go 1 white dragon sorc instead of warlock for earl game spell progression.
I just want to add that those Mindflayer powers are int based. So having a wizard can work with such a build.
Are they? I thought they worked like items and used your spell asking modifier. CHA for bard, WIS for Monk, etc.
wait are you serious they’re INT BASED WTF
It's so convenient for me. I find nothing aesthetically pleasing about Gale's face, so he gets all the powers! Win win!
Wizards make much better use of the Illithid powers. Slap them in the Gith machine and go full squid.
Why is that? I'm really new to the game
Advice: If you're really new, ignore a lot of the stuff here. Not that anyone is wrong, but play the game the way you want to play it. On normal level, it's really not difficult, especially after level 5. Don't worry about making the ultimate most powerful character ever on your first play through.
Most of the Illithid powers scale with INT, which is the wizards main stat
Once you start eating worms to unlock the outer edge abilities, you also get access to Psyonic Dominance which is a free Counter-spell. Not sure if that's per long rest or short rest but super useful to not have to burn a spell slot for it. I personally equip Favorable Beginnings, Luck of the Far Realms, Charm, and P Dominance on anyone I can convince to eat worms. If you have a Wizard though give them all the extras
You make sure everyone has charm but not cull the weak?
Plus, if we're still talking Sorcerer v.s. Wizard, Sorcerers will often rather spend their bonus action on a Quickened spell whereas Wizards don't have as many good uses of their bonus action, so you might as well let them do squid things with it.
Feather fall is usually useless in battles, but sometimes it's good. Would you spend a sorceror spell slot with feather fall? I never used. But when I was a wizard I just memorized the spell and used feather fall whenever I wanted, just had to change which memorized spells I would use,, use feather fall, and change back. The same thing can be said about many other spells. Want to remove a curse? Change, use, change back. Yeah, you can't do it during combat and you can't use a spell that has a prolonged effect, remove the spell and keep the effect, but the versatility is huge. My previous Honour mode, I learned all the available spells with Gale, so I could change which spells he would use whenever I wanted.
For feather fall specifically, there are boots in Act 1 that have that. The game is very generous with gear and potions that provide utility, which kind of undermines that need for flexibility.
The pain of Bard being the only class in your party comp that learns Longstrider.
I like having a bard specifically because they can get feather fall and long strider. Sure, you can't swap it in and out like a wizard, but you're not really losing much on first level bard spells anyway, and you get to learn four right out of the gate. It's not like you're losing out on magic missile or shield or anything
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I think they meant known spell instead of spell slot. As in a Sorc would have to keep featherfall or remove curse for an entire level while a Wizard could take it for a quick moment and then switch back to a better spell right after
Most of that you can do through equipment.
Yeah, but knowing the spell, using it and continue playing is better then looking for a specific piece of equipment who maybe you sold, or maybe you sent to camp, just to use it once and then sending it back to camp. Or carrying a huge load of items. Just change 1 spell, use it and change it back. It's my preference. I also think it's really badass. I was playing with my friends and told them to gather around me coz I was gonna use feather fall. I used and then we continued. When I got the mystic carrion's staff, I just changed some magic so I could use a lot of lvl 6 necromantic magic. It's just some preference I have.
Taking up a spell slot for spells you might use once or twice in the game is a waste.
Abjuration wizards can make themselves pretty much invincible.
This post is funny simply beacuse in DND the question is always the other way around "is Sorcerer just a a bad wizard"
If summons/raising the dead is your thing, then sorcerer is useless. You can't pick those spells as sorcerer. Look at the spell list first. The only competing class is spore druid if you want an army.
Do npc's flee in terror at the sight of undead minions still? It's super annoying
That has been removed. No longer a thing
Phew thanks for the info!
I recently finished a no charisma playthrough on honour mode. Ran a multi gloomstalker, battlemaster, light cleric, and moon druid. Tanked their charisma for better dex and con. Charisma rolls were horribly bad and it was never easy to talk my way out of stuff, which made for fun and hilarious times. Get caught pickpocketing, time go run as far and fast as possible. When I actually succeeded at a persuasion check the excitement was there. So in reality not having a party face can lead to more fun scenarios, plus you can use your other companies to be the face during their respective stories. Go with the Wizard have some fun and be unpersuasive
BG3 has a lot of small changes that 'hurt' the D&D 5e Wizard superiority over other spellcasters. To my understanding the only saving grace Wizards have is their classic 'scribe a spell and change it at any time you want' ability. Which in itself is a bit devalued by the existence of Withers. But it's still there for conveniance. Sure there is a big downside to the time it takes to respec your character, but if you make a mistake in selecting the wrong spell, or really need to change your loadout on the fly that option is always there. And with how much of a money sink scribing spells is (especially if you play the game without strange game logic pickpocketing/knocking out tricks for endless money). Then it really drains your party finances. BG3 removes free ritual casting of unprepared spells as part of the core Wizard kit, it also downgrades or removes a lot of the core Wizard spells (Find Familiar, Tiny Hut, Wall of Force). I can provide anictodes of my X Wizard playthrough and how awesomely powerful it felt. But in the end BG3 isn't that hard of a game, and in most cases even on Honor Mode if you do die/fail it will be because of silly mistakes or bad rolls rather than the game difficulty.
I think a bigger reason is that in bg3, a sorcerer can literally cast 2 spells in a turn(3 with haste which the sorcerer is also good at). And since you have infinite long rests, you can probably do it every turn till battle ends and then rest. I do agree with your points, but certain subclasses like evocation and abjuration have been buffed a lot, and can feel outright broken. Divination is pretty good too.
Be careful with "infinite long rests" in some parts of the game: there are hidden event timers than can expire after a certain number of rests.
What do you mean? Can you give an example? Never heard of this before
[https://bg3.wiki/wiki/Time\_sensitive\_activities](https://bg3.wiki/wiki/Time_sensitive_activities) Free True Soul Nere is one of the ones I've seen most commonly screwed up by long rests.
https://www.reddit.com/r/BaldursGate3/s/lKL4Pe2Mkw See that thread for a list of quests where things can change depending on how many long rests you take. It's fully spoiler tagged, just be aware that some of the small titles/descriptions might also be mildly spoilery.
5e spell system is simpler but I always liked how 3.5e did wizard vs sorceror. Wizard could learn any spell via scrolls but they had to prepare their spells foe each spell slot. You couldnt pick and choose what you wanted at time of casting. You had to preplan your availble spells at the start of the day. If you only prepared one lvl 1 spell slot with magic missile then you only had one cast that day. Sorcerors had much fewer spells known and couldnt learn from scrolls but all of their known spells were prepared at all times. So you were not limited to what you had preplanned in your spell slots. Sorcerors also got more spell slots per day than wizards.
The best house rule we use is that wizards can leave some slots unprepared, and can use them to prepare spells during the day, at the cost of 1 minute per spell level. So I would typically keep 1 or 2 slots available, allowing me to use them for sending, or locate object, or feather fall, or any other kind of utility that we needed. It adds a ton of flexibility to wizards without making them broken. And when you prepare your last spell, you lose you flexibility until the next rest.
will be applying that on my games for sure
To your point on the coin cost, I finished the game with 160k gold without any exploits. Just picking stuff up and selling it. It’s certainly not a factor.
I've taken everything that isn't glued to the ground, pickpocketed/knocked out most traders to get their loot. Used a couple of working exploits just for a top up and don't have nearly as much as that. How?.. 🤔
Nahh it is not that hot. Yeah in terms of min maxing sorc is stronger in terms of damage, but I found Wizard to be more fun. I like Sorc a lot for multiclassing, but Wizard is something I enjoy all 12 levels. With wizard I actually feel like I am playing the game - I prepare for each encounter and especially in Honor mode it pays off. I have one wizard of any type in every single playthrough - either me or gale. Wizard is your wildcard. It's either fun or cast twinned haste.
They’re not *just* a worse sorcerer, but they are definitely worse than sorcerers (from a power gaming perspective) in my opinion. As others have noted, wizard has several things going for it which sorcerer does not (summoning subclass, versatility/utility, neat symbiosis with illithid powers etc). I actually prefer playing wizard to sorcerer most of the time. With that being said, here are a few points/counterpoints (as to why wizards are worse than sorcerers) to some of the comments in this thread: 1. “Abjuration is strong/invincible late game” - Abjuration is definitely strong and nigh unkillable late game, I do not disagree with this, but BG3 does not particularly favour tankiness. Even glass cannons in this game will survive most fights with a decent amount of health, due to the ridiculous lategame damage you can do with any reasonably meta build (I know it has become cliche, but dead enemies don’t do damage). Abjuration does very respectable damage too, but you simply cannot do as much damage as a sorcerer with quickened spell, twinned spell (haste, fireball, take your pick). 2. INT is a mostly dead stat - There are few important INT saving throws and INT is used incredibly sparingly elsewhere, so having it as your primary stat is not ideal compared to charisma (which obviously goes hand in hand with passing tough dialogue checks, important in all difficulties and especially honour mode). There are some niche uses as others have stated with illithid powers but I struggle to believe this would be stronger than anything you can do on a sorcerer. 3. “Wizards have better utility/can swap spells on the fly” - This is perhaps the defining feature of wizards in BG3, and it is incredibly nice (one of the reasons I prefer playing Wizard). However, lategame, you have enough spell slots to take pretty much any spell you could reasonably use in a fight. If we’re talking about pure power gaming, you’re gonna have a small repertoire of spells you use in a fight to do CC/damage/etc, and even taking into account specific vulnerabilities/resistances, there’s really not much need to be able to swap your spells before a fight; if you know what you’re doing, it is pretty easy to have a ‘one size fits all’ selection of spells. With regards to utility spells that you typically use out of combat (think feather fall), you find plenty of scrolls throughout the game so you don’t really lose anything by not having 24/7 access to these spells. 4. “Sorcerers are more resource intensive” - True, but there’s a comical amount of food in the game. You can long rest after pretty much any fight you want. TL;DR: Sweating your ass off in honour mode? Just play sorcerer. Anything else? Just pick whatever looks cooler, they’re both good.
about the abjuration im starting to wonder if it is as good as i tought it would be when it basically just means my wizard is mostly untargetable by enemies... it does give me free concentrarion and immortality but is it enough to compensate the lack of damage and ease of use from evocation?
It depends. Evocation is a great skill that let's you safely throw damage and not deal with friendly fire. I preferred that to the gimmicks a sorcerer gets like twin Hastes. Don't forget on forums people obsess about their max level characters with every artifact at endgame. Most people don't make recommendations on the 90% of the game it takes to max out.
To be fair, sorcerer can pick up careful spell, which does the same thing. It costs a resource, but you don't actually need it all the time anyway, so it's pretty fine
Evoker deals 0 damage. Sorcerer with Careful costs a meta point and still deals damage and breaks concentration. Wall spells from Evoker are great. You drop it in round 1 making the whole battlefield a hazard that doesn't affect you.
A Sorcerer is someone with a natural talent for specific sorts of magic. They're highly competent in their specific respects, often more-so than a wizard. But what they gain in natural talent, they lose in versatility. A Wizard is someone who has studied magic and learnt the craft of casting spells through practice and knowledge. They can be highly competent in many areas whilst also having good proficiency in everything else. A wizard can know an unlimited number of spells potentially and can prepare spells for whatever the situation calls for. So really it comes down to this: without prep time the Sorcerer is better but with prep time the Wizard is better. For example a Sorcerer might spec into casting Fire spells and become highly adept and doing Fire Magic. Whilst an equivalent Wizard might spec into Evocation and learn a bunch of Fire Spells. Assuming they find out they're gonna fight a Pit Fiend tomorrow, the Wizard will do a lot better than the Sorcerer because at least he can prepare a spell other than Fire. (Pit Fiends are immune to Fire Damage)
Wizards have to be the most underrated class in the game. Just need to make use of their subclasses properly and scroll scribe
CHA is not too important unless you plan on being your face for your party. Even then, you can cast friends to gain advantage on nearly every dialogue check. There is a hat in Act 3 that also adds your INT modifier to all your persuasion checks too. My favourite thing about a face wizard is they can use Detect thoughts better than any other character in the game, since it's an INT based skill check. And detect thoughts is used in so many different convos that you will get your value from this spell all game.
Be careful with Friends on tactician or honour mode, the NPC you cast it on WILL aggro when it wears off.
Do they still aggro if you leave the area before it wears off but come back later?
No, but you need to be well out of sight.
I think BG3s "at will" respec system diminishes the values of Wizard at little bit. The main class fantasy of Wizard is getting to play Pokemon with spell scrolls and catch them all, having an arsenal of spells at your disposal and a solution for any situation. Sorcerer to me is more about comitting to only a handful of spells and specializing in a particular element, etc... In a normal DND campaign you'd be locked into this choice for the entire playthrough, with a chance to swap one spell per levelup. BG3 respecs make it easier to swap back and forth between different Sorcerer setups so it makes Wizard access to more spells feel redundant.
your friends are wrong. They do different things, but even on tactician, you REALLY have to be trying to wreck your build to not be functional. It could also be that you're friends are pretty ....."unimaginative" in playstyles and i will say sorcerer tends to be a lot more straightforward/turn brain off cast fireball. For your dark caster, it's pretty much Wizard Necro Spec. I'm doing a similar run right now and while i will say the first 5/6 levels are tough (you're pretty much just a wizard WITHOUT a specialization until this point) at lvl 6 it becomes nonsense. With the zombie on the stick from the hag, familiar (shovel preferably), and your zombies (which make more zombies when something dies) your Action Economy (which is everything in this game) goes absolutely through the rooof and just continues to snowball. Vampiric touch, cloudkill, and the other higher level necromancy spells also start to do work, and you still have the option to just throw the "classic" wizard staples if you want. Not to mention you end up with every spell, fulfill a ton of utility, and as long as you don't dump cha, a 13/14 starting CHA while carrying friends/charm person/thaumaturgy/etc you can still "face" through most interactions with a little prep. For a sorcerer, your pretty much going Fireball Spam and twin haste/full nuke, with maybe some control.
As others said, both are fine. That said, BG3 makes wizards a lot worse than standard 5E: 1. There's only 3-4 ritual spells, most of which aren't very useful. 2. The ability to dynamically switch spells is less useful because of respeccing through Withers and the fact that spells don't do that much in social situations. 3. Having your MC be Charisma is somewhat useful due to forced conversation situations. 4. The set of spells that are useful is pretty small. After the first few levels, you can basically have all of them on your sorceror
Not counting honour mode, you can make a sorcerer, add one level of wizard and learn all wizard spells. Together with the int 17 headband from the ogre, you can add in a few wizard spells to your repertoire as a sorcerer.
Personally I find it the other way round but that's just me.
Nope. Sorcerers are better damage dealing wizards if you build them correctly, but there's far more to a wizard than just dealing damage. CHA is also extremely overrated.
>CHA is also extremely overrated. Tell that to Act 2.
I mean more in the sense that people think they can't play the game without a charisma based tav. The game isn't ruined if you fail some speech checks. It's just a different story.
Proficiency in a social skill, flat 10 Charisma, and Guidance will get you through most situations. Add Enhance Ability if its really important/hard. Not like you have anything else to burn Inspiration on unless you are also disarming traps.
Abjuration/frost wizard is an unkillable force of destruction.
Can you elaborate on that build pls. I'm about to make a new wizard. That sounds fun
The Nizar build i'd say. 2 warlock (armor of agathys + armor of darkness) / 1 tempest cleric (thunder explosion reaction)/ 9 wizard (abjuration) Buff yourself with the free mage armor from warlock to get your ward's stacks maxed up and focus on frost spells in combination with wet status
https://youtu.be/3Mhyn5oAkP0?si=Dxlb8Bec3CkL4hnZ I used this build, works pretty well
In BG3, absolutely. In my opinion. What makes Wizards so strong in D&D5E is the insane amount of spells you can learn and have ready to cast as rituals at any time without preparing them. Most of the problems in BG3 are solved through talking or combat. The Wizard excels at having a key for every type of lock you can encounter. But in BG3 there are only two kinds of locks.
That’s true for “encounters” but not for every challenge you face. There’s a lot of “puzzles” to solve outside of fighting or talking your way past enemies. I just started a new playthrough (first attempt at honor mode lol let’s see how this goes) and I’m in auntie Ethel’s basement and thinking to myself “man all these poison traps would be easy to bypass with feather fall…..”. Or windgust. Or dimension door. Or telekinesis. That’s just one example. There’s so many though!
Sorceror is to Wizard what Pally is to Fighter. You can blow through resources quickly to deal a ton of burst damage, but Wizard has the utility and strong subclasses. Abjuration School is probably the strongest subclass in the game. The main reason to go Sorc is Twin Haste, really. It's broken, but locks you out of other concentration uses making you very limited.
For power gaming sorc is probably stronger in some areas, typically by leveraging quickened spell for extra burst or twinned spell to double up with some good combos, but in general wizards have quite unique abilities depending on their chosen focus. Sorc can't really do minions better than necromancer. For a dark magic user you might want to consider spores druid as well, but necromancer is quite good.
No, wizards learn twice as many spells and have more variety.
Wizards have 3 things going for them. The best is the ability to learn spells from scrolls. That means they're waaay more versatile than Sorcerers or any of the other casters. You can only have a limited number of spells prepared at a time, but you can prepare new spells from you repertoire any time you're not in combat. The next best is the school specialization: they range from good to great, but the Necromancy school will let you heal when you deal damage with necromancy spells, and at higher levels gives you more powerful undead summons, and more powerful ones. A must for feeling like a real necromancer. Honorable mention is Arcane Recovery, which gives you some spell slots back. Nice when you're tapped dry, but not ready to long rest yet. Only half as good as sorcery points, but better than nothing.
Sorcerers tend to have higher number output but wizards get far larger spell lists so they'll always have something for the situation at hand.
Especially since you can swap out spells out of combat without having to rest. Very useful.
Yeah there'd been lots of times I've had some sort of obstacle and just swapped Gale's spells om the spot to grab something useful.
Sorcerer is strictly more powerful Wizard is more versatile That being said, I have to agree that Wizard is basically worse in every meaningful way for even slight min/maxing. Almost no gear support (meanwhile any charisma caster has so much good gear), nothing that adds bonus damage. Divination is fun and quirky for early game/honor mode. Necromancy has some good synergy but really can't do much besides summon a small army. Abjuration is good but very slow and boring (imo) to play- basically wait till someone attacks you after casting AoA. But none of the supposed spellcasting roles like Illusion or Evocation have any good CC or damage compared to Bard or Sorcery.
Multiclassing is also a factor, when looking at the differences between the two classes. For example, you might want to multiclass into something tankier if you're a wizard. I found that a wizard fighter was great, because of the extra turn. If you couple that with something like abjuration specialization, it's extremely hard to be taken down. If you're a sorcerer, you might be more inclined to pick up a few levels of something like cleric or druid. That way you're expanding your versatility. Sorcerer paladins are a great option, as well. Personally, I prefer wizards both for the versatility and the lack of a need to shore up that lack of options. Playing like a magus class? It only made life easier for me.
I just can't get the hang of sorc. So to me, Sorc is just a Wizard who flunked out.
Yes. With the ability to respec whenever wizard is just a worse sorcerer.
I've played both and are both fun to me. My go-to Wizard right now is surprisingly enchantment. Crown of Madness has been a big crutch for me in my honor mode and when you level up to the ability to cast on more than one target it gets pretty entertaining. Just gotta play the niche and see what you personally enjoy more.
The quick answer is no. The longer answer is: Wizard is a better spellcaster overall for players who are more skilled and willing to do more work to get the results they want. Sorcerer is the better spellcaster for players who want to easily super charge the power of their spells and want a powerful spellcaster without needing to think nearly as much. Wizard needs a whole lot more good decisions to be super powerful and can be bad if you make poor decisions, while sorcerer is powerful with poor decisions and a little under Wizard with good decisions. Can a Wizard output as much damage in a single round as a sorcerer of the same level? No, but the sorcerer will burn a whole lot of resources in that single round, to get a more powerful round. Take level 5 Evocation Wizard v. level 5 Red Dragon Sorcerer both casting Fireball. The Wizard can cast fireball with no fear of damaging their allies while the sorcerer can spend sorcery points to let their allies succeed the saving throw. The sorcerer could also choose to cast fireball twice in the round by spending 3 of their sorcery points to quicken it, but then can’t use a metamagic to also allow their allies to auto save. The Sorcerer at level 5 will also have access to a total of 7 spells and 4 cantrips, if they are specializing in fire, then they will likely take firebolt, burning hands, scorching ray, and fireball, leaving only 4 spells and 3 cantrips available. A level 5 Wizard has access to (at minimum) 14 total spells and 4 cantrips. They also can learn any spell scroll of a level of spell they can cast. So if these two characters are going to fight an enemy that is resistant to fire, the Wizard can just swap to their ice spells for the fight. The Sorcerer can only replace one spell each level. Will the sorcerer outperform a Wizard in raw damage in a single fight? Probably. Will a Sorcerer bring as much to the table as a Wizard throughout the course of a game? Likely not. In both tabletop and BG3, Sorcerer is better when everything lines up for them, but they often don’t have ways of making sure things line up for them. A Wizard on the other hand is better overall if you plan for fights ahead of time and can set up the battlefield and your party to optimize the wizard’s strengths. In the end, neither is better, but because of BG3s easy multiclassing and the way Wizard spell scribing works, for best results, por que no los dos? Why not both? Take as many levels of sorcerer as you want, and as many levels of Wizard as you need and quicken spell on level six spells that your Wizard learned from scrolls, and for the most fun, toss a level or two of tempest cleric on top for destructive wrath on a storm sorcerer cast chain lightning on wet enemies. My favorite damage split: 8 Storm Sorcerer/2 Tempest Cleric/2 Evocation Wizard My favorite utility split: 4 Storm Sorcerer/2 Life Cleric/6 Divination Wizard My favorite tank split: 1 White Dragon Sorcerer/1 Tempest Cleric/10 Abjuration Wizard
I'll never understand why people keep saying this... They are two different classes, with different capabilities. Never tried sorcerer, but read enough to understand how it works, on the other hand I'm pretty good with my wizard, and I can tell you wizard is busted as hell too. The sheer amount of damage and flexibility of this class is ridicoulous. You can change spells whenever you want, helping in exploration and battle tactics. If you already know the game and know how the fight will work, you can do so much things. For example: barricade yourself in a room with 2 doors using magic lock in one of them, wait for the enemies to use the only door usable and destroy their asses when they grop up in a tiny space, using water on them and cone of cold/lighting or even glyph of interdiction (not even talking about chain of lighting that is totally busted) This is just one thing you can do, but there are so many possibility. As an evocation wizard I practically soloed Ansur while my party watched me kick his rotten ass. Every class can be broken if used correctly and the possibility to multiclass helps a lot. To answer your question: Try wizard, it's very strong and has the necromantic flexibility you need to roleplay you evil character. And don't worry about CHA rolls, Just give you character competence in one type of check (I did a noble, with competence in persuasion checks, and did totally fine in my run).
I think wizard suffers from 2 issues, the first is that sorcerer is for the most part a better wizard and a better party leader because of charisma. The second is that any Tav wizard gets overshadowed by Gale. Sorcerer gets better damage and dialog skills, wizard a bit more utility. Ultimately if you play sorcerer you can take Gale in your party and don’t need to choose anyway. Sorcerer interactions with Gale are actually pretty nice.
Why does Gale over shadow a Tav wizard? Genuine question. Gale doesn’t appear to have anything that you couldn’t get from a Tav?
Game Iinteractions . I’m really referring to roleplay here. LaeZel tends to overshadow a Githyanki Tav in the same way. Tav gets kinda overlooked in both cases which isn’t great.
Wizard is a Swiss Army knife and sorcerer is a broadsword Both can kill a man, one way easier than the other, but only one can also tighten a screw. Sorcery points are stupidly strong in the way the game works, but the wizard can use his spellbook to change through spells at will. In the game sense this also is kind of made less key because you can simply respec your sorcerer before a specific battle if you want. So yes all in all sorcerer > wizard in terms of killing stuff, but wizard has some amazing classes as well, necromancer or abjuration for example.
Evocation Wizard magic missiles beat everything that a Sorcerer can do.
If you really really really like spell scribe, play wizard. Necromancy wizard is fun as well. Sorcerer is just better in basically every other context, yeah.
Sorcerer is severely limited by its number of spells in its spell list and its known spells. For example, a Sorcerer cannot create armies of summons like your necromancer because they literally have no summon spells. A wizard in comparison has a much larger spell list which includes nearly every spell a Sorcerer has and can change them out as necessary. These spells also tend to cover more bases as well. So generally, in terms of spells, wizard is stronger than sorcerers. Both have methods of spell slot recovery, but I’d say the wizards is better as it allows for the recovery of the spells slots without having to spend a critical resource like sorcery points. This makes metamagic really important. The most potent metamagics are easily hastened spell and twinned spell, which lends itself to either being a blaster caster or strong single target spells (Haste/Hold Person). But these eat up sorcery points and spell slots like crazy so you’re gonna be resting a bunch after fights. So I still think that the base class chassis for wizard is noticeably stronger than sorcerer. So if you take advantage of sorcerer you really gotta lean into specific metamagic and subclass options.
Wizard can summon shit and have shovel as a pet.
I know some people are really passionate about this subject, in my opinion yes, wizard is just a worse sorcerer. For necromancer, which i dont think is that great in this game, although blasting free spells with the staff from carrion is fun, I think wizard is better though because of their necromancy subclass some say prepared spells is a huge boon in order to swap out spells according to the encounter or in order to have utility spells at certain points of the game, i have never needed to do this though, especially if I run another prepared caster as my support like cleric or druid. Maybe worth considering running a Wiz as a supportive caster but it cant really heal, but I wouldn't run it as my main blaster caster personally Learning every spell from scrolls is pretty cool. I overall like the RP of being a magic incarnate more than someone who learns magic by studying hard. And again I feel like with sorcerer I get all the spells I really need, and even if i wanted one of the cool exceptions (shovel, artistry of war, spheres etc) I could just dip 1 level in wizard. I would say metamagic is much more impactful than any of the wiz subclasses - your burst is just so much higher with quickened spell, you can do things like extend spell command to concentrationlessly CC tons of enemies with command, you got twinned haste, twinned chain lightning... some people are huge fans of sculpt spell on wiz but i have never felt the need to have that, but its also a playstyle
Am I the only one that doesn't like Sorcerer. I feel like my Storm Sorcerer isn't that good call lightning keeps putting out low damage.
Make stuff wet first, then upcast it as high as possible, if you can hold concentration you can redo for 10 turns. It can do a ton of damage. Also it’s AoE so you really want to hit more than 1 target.
For sure. You always want to get it wet first. 😏
Yes sorcerers are straight up better. IMO they're better in general, but particularly in BG3. Both have their pros and cons but sorcerers' pros are better.
A big advantage a wizard has is multi classing. If you want to take 2 levels of tempest cleric for a lightning themed sorcerer, you only get 10 sorcerer levels and you are locked out of getting level 6 spells like chain lightning. A wizard taking 2 levels of cleric can not select a level 6 spell on level up, but they can still learn them from scrolls. Now you can cast a chain lightning that gets all damage rolled at its maximum value (this is slightly worse than doing double damage). Now some will argue that a pure sorcerer can just twin cast chain lightning for double damage as well, but we can take the multiclassing further and just grab 2 levels of sorcerer and get twin casting as well, all while keeping level 6 spells since we can learn them from scrolls. Now doing this you drop 4 wizard levels, so you can prepare 4 fewer spells, but you gain 2+wisdom mod level 1 cleric spells, and 3 level 1 sorcerer spells, and there are plenty of level 1 spells from there that dont require a hit roll or a save (will be bad since they use wisdom and charisma but you should focus on int) like magic missles, healing word, create water (for lightning damage), long strider, etc. A trade well worth it imo. Wizard dipping into other spell caster classes, picking up their features without really sacrificing anything is their most broken feature.
Twin casting is huge. But nothing keeping you to get 2 points in sorc and going wizard after it (evocation).
Warlock with a lvl 1 wizard dip will give you all the utility of wizard spells , your strong evocation spells like fireball and lightning bolt , While having refreshing spell slots and all your necro themed spells Just wear lumps crown for the 17 int , since your wizard spells will use those instead of cha like the rest of the build
They are two different classes. Wizard uses INT, sorcerer uses CHA. INT is probably the least important and least used stat outside of this in the game. CHA certainly is used in persuasion checks, reducing shop prices and some saving throws as well. You can also just use the headpiece to give you 17 INT when you need it for a check or similar. So yes INT loses here. Wizard is in theory a lot better than sorcerer. If every spell in the game was amazing and a must have, everyone would want wizard. But the sad truth most spells aren’t very good. This works in sorcerers favor. They have a very rigid and limited spell list. But it doesn’t really matter because you’re only getting the best spells this way. And you can always use scrolls in other situations. So in terms of battle damage the wizard really loses out. Necromancy also isn’t very good. There are other wizard classes that can make good potions but those are more for camp casting use and not battle use. So it’s not as simple as wizards are a bad sorcerer. But I usually reclass Gale into a sorlock if that says anything. Early game up until like lv 5 or so, there’s very little difference beteeen any of them. They all have white limited spell slots, and wizard could be a bit better because they can get a few more spells that are good.
Sorcerer actually ends up feeling more underwhelming in comparison to wizard, in my experience both at the tabletop and in BG3. The subclasses just *suck*. With Wizard, I can scribe down Dethrone, Final Stratagem, Circle of Death, etc, and have a veritable arsenal of death just waiting to be cast. With free cast abilities from stuff like Markoheshkir and other endgame wizard items, you can fire off a few free nukes.
Gameplay-wise, perhaps, but because BG3 is a proper RPG, wizard is better because of sheer range of spellcasting that improves roleplaying significantly. Plus, I reckon wizard allows for much more fun with all the specializations you can get. Sorcerers are edgelords, and that's reason enough for me not to play them.
Just play the character and have fun.
[удалено]
That’s what he said