Personally I prefer making him an int-based storm sorcerer-tempest cleric-divination wizard for that sort of build.
Casting chain lightning on five targets in one turn(if you’re pre-hasted, made enough sorcery points for quickened casting and twin casting it twice - and got them arcane battery staves for spell slots, course) and having destructive wrath and portent dice to make sure it hits harder still and with less chance for missing never gets old.
A single level in wizard lets you scribe any scroll for your caster level and cast those with int; I rely on these spells like chromatic orb, glyph of warding, lightning bolt, chain lightning etc for damage. Sorcerer spells were things like shield, magic missile, misty step, cloud of daggers, haste, counterspell… Same for cleric: basically only ever casting create water(till you get it from storm sorcerer), bless and sanctuary.
My preferred split was 8 storm sorcerer/2 tempest cleric/2 divination wizard to get most sorcery points while still accessing portent dice and destructive wrath.
Huh, TIL.
I thought that there’s only a check if you’re counterspelling a spell of a higher spell level than the one you’re expending to counter said spell.
You’re correct, but since you can only see the base level of the spell rather than if they’re upcasting, it’s still helpful to have a high spellcasting modifier.
That's correct. But it uses your modifier for that roll.
It doesn't always use it, but it's not like it's a spell that completely doesn't care about your modifier.
Agree it meshes best with Wiz, I like to take 3 levels in it too if I can get War Caster if I don’t have e it yet.
Edit - Take Spell sniper if I have the other caster feats.
Because… classes are categorized as full casters, half casters, non casters. And your spell availability in bg3 in based on your caster level not class level.
Full casters get a level of caster for each class level. These are wizard, sorcerer, cleric, Druid, I don’t know about warlock and bard but probably.
Half casters it’s every 2 levels counts as a level of caster. Paladins, rangers for sure, eldritch knights? and trickster rogues maybe too?
Non casters the levels don’t count at all. So if you’re paladin 4, sorcerer 8 you’re a 10th level caster and just miss out on level 6 spells but if you’re a cleric 2, wizard 10 you’re a level 12 caster
its why they say that Arcane Trickster is the best scroll user in the game!
they get https://bg3.wiki/wiki/Magical_Ambush but only second level spell slots...
Bard is a full caster and gets the same spell slot progression as cleric, wizard, sorcerer, and druid. Warlock is unique given Warlock spell slots; levels in Warlock do not count for normal spell slot progression at all.
People mostly get away with just not using spells that need high Int to work. Getting something like Haste, conjure elemental, resilient sphere, globe of invulnerability, etc are pretty damn good.
Typically wizard spells are used for things that don't have a DC, but yes you need enough INT for spell memorization slots. The ogre circlet of 17 int can be used if nothing else
In all fairness, 10/1/1 bard/fighter/wizard is a well known and extremely strong build. The single level multiclass to wizard gives the ability to learn any utility spell you like (shield is among the best), and completes the 11 full caster levels required to unlock a level 6 spell slot.
This build doesn't get access to level 6 bard spells, but can learn things like Globe of Invulnerability, Conjure Elemental, etc. It will often consume the level 6 slot to upcast Hold Person/Monster, Confusion, or Command.
Such a build is so far removed from dnd that you're basically playing a different game; do whatever is fun to you of course, but I don't recommend it and have zero interest.
This is an excellent point. Wizards can essentially learn every spell out there so long as they meet the criteria, it’s not like sorcs who only get one per level. In fact I think the only thing a Wiz will miss out on is a feat, and you’re kinda gaining that from the stuff you get on the cleric dip.
You don't even need to choose wizard spells, can just learn them from scrolls. A single level of wizard (yes just 1) and 11 in some full caster like cleric or bard actually works to cast *all the wizard spells*. Not that I recommend this silliness to anyone
Minor addition: You cant get Counterspell from Scroll scribing so if you want that with Wiz 1 you need to get it from somewhere else (Sorc 5 / Lore Bard 6 / Lock 5).
If you have one level of wizard you can scribe any spell up to your highest level spell slot into your spellbook, so you can take a few levels of other spellcasting classes and still have level 6 spells
Yes you can. Bear in mind wizards are prep casters and can only prep a number of spells equal to your wizard level plus intelligence mod and wizard spells will use int for attack roles and save DCs. A pretty good work around is to use the warped headband of intellect to set your int to 17. That will give a one level wizard dip 4 prep slots and decent rolls/DCs.
Afaik yes but INT will be your spellcasting stat for scroll spells, so you'll need to rely on the helm of arcane acuity for swords bard, not sure how lore bard works? Int 17 circlet + battlemage potions I assume?
It's whatever the last class you went is.
So going 1 fighter 1 wis 1 bard is how you level the age old build so that your scrolls cast from charisma.
Then if you need the odd wizard spell arcane acuity makes up for having 10 int or whatever you end up with. I usually go 12-14 personally and take the 16 in charisma as arcane acuity is that strong, but honestly it's up to the person.
It also only counts for caster levels. Ie 1 level in fighter doesnt alter it but reaching level 3 EK will.
It also doesn't take into account if you were to say go 1 wis 1 bard then 1 wiz. It's still cast with charisma as it's the last additional class. it's odd but whatever. Should probably utelize the highest spell DC stat you have out of all caster classes but we make do
I meant casting from scrolls that you scribed into your spellbook, not directly using the scrolls in battle. Since you learned then as wizard don't they use INT?
Cleric dip works, but you delay your class features and Counterspell by a level. So it can be better to roll Wiz up to 6, then at level 7 respec Cleric in and Moderately Armored out.
Yeah, the Spidersilk Armor is dope.
I didn't highlight it the comment you're responding to, but the bigger reason for Moderately Armored is the Speedy Lightfeet + Expeditious Retreat combo. The higher initiative and AC are the cherries on top.
Divination Wiz 8 / Knowledge Cleric of Mystra 4
Feats: Skilled, ASI, Ritual Caster / Lucky (prefer RC to freely talk with animals and dead without amulet and potions).
Medium armor (heavy if you pick tempest, life, or war), simple weapons (martial if you pick tempest or war) shield proficiencies, guidance cantrip, extra spells prepared, access to healing spells (notably healing word), access to the bless spell which boosts accuracy and saving throws of you and your party. Also gives access to sanctuary which can be used to make sure your concentration spells like hold monster stay active
Yep. Both in BG3 and Dnd 5e Cleric 1 is one of the best single level multiclasses you can do and works well on any caster. It also doesn't slow down your spell slot level progression but does slow down you spell level known progression (except in bg3 with wizards because they can prep spells for any slot level they have)
Haven’t played since September, but I thought I read that they patched that out a couple months ago. Was it something else with the way wizards multiclass that was fixed, and I just misunderstood it?
I also haven't played since September so I unfortunately cannot answer you.
To whoever downvoted me: I guess next time someone asks me a question I can't answer, would you prefer I give misinformation?
See, what I hate about multiclassing in DnD is the fact that you see you're going to miss out on the lvl 20 capstone(s), but the likelihood is that you wouldn't be seeing them anyway
In addition to what has already been said light clerics get a really great 1st lvl feature in warding flare. It's basically a worse shield, but it's infinite uses, so if it's right before gales turn and you don't need the benefit from shield in that the +5 lasts up to a round, you can just warding flare, and you can also fall back on it when u run out of 1st/2nd lvl slots to use shield with.
No to get the armor proficiencies it has to be your first class. A one level wizard dip does almost nothing for a pure cleric too.
You can use it to permanently learn some one time scrolls like Summon Shovel but that isn't really enticing. Find Familiar is also decent.
>No to get the armor proficiencies it has to be your first class.
Unless you pick Light or War (and Tempest?) domain. The subclasses give full benefits upon multiclassing.
Yes, though you need both int and wis to use them effectively. TBH 1wiz/11cler doesn't seem that good, esp compared to 1cler/11wiz. (1wiz/11sorc is pretty nice though... Has the same stats issue on int/cha though. Headband of Intellect in act 1 can help a lot.)
well 1 cleric/11 wiz doesn’t get all the good cleric spells though right? I guess i just might disagree about what seems good. To me it seems like lvl 1 wiz/lvl 11 cleric is seemingly strictly better than either a level 12 wizard or a level 12 cleric. so i burn one stat and have to me use an equipment slot for the CON amulet or something but then i have a full cleric with access to all the best wizard spells.
you need to always have your main spellcasting stat be levelled into last so that item uses like arcane battery or the headpieces that give free spells use int in this case
I love abjuration on Gale. I respeced him to start as level 1 sorcerer but with Wizard stats (for con save proficiency and white dragon ancestry for Armor of Agathys). One level into Tempest cleric gives you the lightning damage reaction, Heavy and Medium armor (although I prefer to keep his AC as low as possible to bait attacks) but more importantly Create Water spell that you can cast the cantrip version when enemies are next to you.
The rest of the levels go into Wizard for massive arcane ward stacks. Pick up Blade Ward or better Warding Bond from an ally and you are good to go.
You can wear heavy plate armors for the damage reduction but like I said I like having my AC as low as possible. Basically I just dash around and provoke opportunity attacks as much as possible, spray water on occasion and let enemies mill themselves when hitting me.
I haven’t tried his Valor Bard yet but it does sound like a lot of fun. I like his channel a lot.
Funny story time: my wife’s grandpa passed recently (ok not off to a funny start) and we flew last week for his funeral. My wife was hungry so we stopped at a restaurant right after leaving the airport. There was one other couple ordering in front of us and I thought to myself, wow that really sounds like the D4 guy. Well, he turned around and it was him. I chatted with him for a minute and I have to say he is just as nice in person as he seems like he would be on his channel.
wait until you level him up a bit. he cant be killed, and he will not allow other characters to die either. make sure you have as many abjuration spells on you as possible to keep pumping up that ward. glyph of warding is abjuration and deals decent AoE damage 😉
what I meant was that when an abjuration spell cand o the trick, use it instead of a different school alternative.
example: instead of fireball, fire ward glyph. instead of hold person, banish. and get items that give you abju spells like that one robe that gives you agathys, etc.
yep. it is imo one of the best spells. a better version of sleep, a decent version lf fireball for each element, and the repulsion one is amazing for ledge kills
Upcast Armor of Agathys from sorc dip, then use items with Abjuration spells to max out the ward. I have a bunch sitting in his inventory for just this purpose.
don't think it's worth
he already have shield prof so you're trading a potential ASI, warcaster, resilient, dual wielding, alert, lucky (if he go divination iz funny), ect... just for medium armor ? If you really want to armor him up, just respec him and take the first level in fighter, you'll get all armor prof, a fighting style (defense for +1 free AC), cons prof and a BA heal
but he does look sexy af in this armor, I'll give you that
The issue with this is the game’s itemization, a lot of the good Wizard items are robes, whereas medium armor are typically enchanted with more martial oriented enchantments.
The [Dark Justiciar Half Plate](https://bg3.wiki/wiki/Dark_Justiciar_Half-Plate_\(Very_Rare\)) you can get by going the sharran route gives advantage on CON saves (otherwise the light [Armour of Landfall](https://bg3.wiki/wiki/Armour_of_Landfall) is 2nd best)
Tbh this is an awful candidate for moderately armored. The shield prof is 90% of the reason you take it.
You can instead go for 18 dex and light armor, or alert, or w/e.
But you do you bb boo
Why not just take his first level in fighter?
Gives you more HP, heavy armor + martial weapon proficiency and proficiency in Con-saves, saving the need for resilient: con as well.
(Cleric is a great dip for wizard as well, trading con saves for more spells. But this has been discussed in the comments already quite extensively)
2 Tempest Cleric gives you much better mileage. You can use Wizard's Spell Learning feature to stay on curve with spells, and getting martial gear and maxing out the damage of big AoE spells is kind of sick.
As a Human, Gale also has a baseline of Light Armor and Shields, so I really don't see the appeal to Moderately armored
Don't forget that you can use Wizard's spell learning feature to learn any spell you have the spell slot to cast. Wizard mutliclassing is lowkey kind of OP.
Hot take, you can infinitely respec every single character so there's no reason for anyone to be a certain class or play a certain way. Barbarian Gale is totally possible.
This picture is specifically the console interface, but someone else commented that this function also exists on PC, just a bit different. Just tested it, totally works! Which is awesome, because I missed being able to do it when I switched to PC.
When you're in camp a new button titled "camp companions" shows up in the bottom left corner of the screen, and when you click it it brings up an additional inventory screen where you can click on each of the other companions' banner icon to get access to their stuff.
The meta is to give him Dual Wielder and stack staves like Melf and Spellsparkler. It’s almost the same as snagging an ASI with the bonus of damage riders
My playstyle favors burst and control on Gale as opposed to stacking durability or AC. I find that prolonged combat skews rng away from my favor since we’re usually outnumbered and stuff hits really hard on HM.
Speedy Lightfeet plays into that though? You get the Lightning Charges off the BA, so you start out with them before you attack. Combo'd with the Spellsparkler, you can use the 1d8+1 combo hit more frequently, and the Shield and Blast Pendant more aggressively.
The +1 Dex puts you to 18, giving +4 initiative. Vs +2 initiative enemies (most of them), Gale will be going first 94% of the time. Vs the handful of +3's, 81% of the time (or 94% w/ Bow of Awareness or Hide Armor+2).
This effectively gives Gale an extra turn to dish out justice and helps free up the initiative boosting gear for other characters so they all can sync their turn orders more frequently.
Np. It's really fun, and the combo is how I stumbled into Moderately Armored. I used it with my EK in my previous run. Tried it with Gale in this one and was like "Oh, Medium Armor? Ugh..I don't want to delay improved portent but I want these boots!" Then I realized. Moderately Armored. My salvation.
I ended up swapping Moderately Armored for Cleric at 7 and just kept up with the combo until Act 3, but I had someone else on Stormy Clamour.
It's not even a controller problem, it's just that the entire UI is different in ways that don't make sense. Like the differences between our character sheets and inventory are vastly different, and there's really no good reason for that. And I get that action wheels are the default for controllers, but hot bars are controller friendly, too, and much easier to manage.
That being said, minor gripes are minor and aren't gonna stop me from playing lol
just curious does console allow for connecting a mouse and keyboard and playing that way? and yeah for sure, don't wanna miss out on the game of last year over something like that
I know pay natively has support for m+k, but I don't think the console version of the game has support for both. There aren't any settings that I have seen to switch inputs, nor to swap to a m+k friendly UI, and the console UI is very unfriendly to m+k lol Though I suppose it is possible for the UI to auto-swap if it detects a m+k? Idk. Now I'm curious lol I may have to steal my wife's keyboard and test it out
I always just make him into an Eldritch knight with a headband of intellect, I do this because the image of Gale as a frat bro fighter posing so completely as a wizard that he became Mystra's chosen makes me giggle uncontrollably.
Just get the helldusk armor and put you wizard in it. No need to spend a feat, or dip a level, or anything and your wizard is in heavy armor and considered proficient.
Give gale 16 dex - AC +3 (and +3 to initiative)
Cast mage armor for - AC +3
Equip shield - AC +2
That’s 18 AC in act 1.
You only have 19 AC in this picture. Seems like a waste of a feat.
I personally like fighter 1 / wiz 11 for my honor runs. Guided missile machine gun with heavy armor (using adamantine armor) and gloves that cause reverb. Good damage per turn that also knocks people prone, 23 AC, and con proficiency. You do lose a spell slot but I feel like it's a decent trade. Even while being evocation, gale is the most tanky character in my party. At level 6 you can respect into 1 fighter, 5 wiz.
moderately armored gives +1 dex, medium armor prof, and shield prof. Humans are already proficient with shields due to Civil Militia. +1 dex is only impactful if you leave your dex at 13.
If you are using an ASI to take a feat, might as well take a dip and get 1 less ASI instead. Fighter and cleric are obvious.
My hot take: Cheese the Helldusk Armor off of Raphael in Act 1 and give it to Gale (no proficiency check).
/Or less good, wait until Act 3 to get the Elven Chain and defeat Rafael in the House of Hope to equip him.
I honestly dont think he needs it. Dnd does a very poor job with keeping wizards squishy. Mage armor is equal to a lot of medium armors. So instead I just give Gale the Gloves of Dexterity from the mountain pass, making his base AC 16 with mage armor up. That plus shield is enough. 21 AC is more than enough most of the time. Plus its possible to get it higher without wasting a feat. The ring of protection, the cape in act 2 both give +1 plus a bonus to saving throws
2 warlock, 1 cleric, rest wizard (abjuration). Keep armor of ag up casted 100% of the time and use nothing but ice spells.
Keep entire map frozen and when enemies do get to you, they kill themselves every time they hit.
in my experience AC doesnt even matter. I have an ac18 and get hit by everything. my last character had ac14 and was missed by most attacks. it seems entirely random.
I always just end up respeccing him to 3 cleric, 9 abjuration, and going with heavy armor master. That way he can cover aid, longstrider, mage armor, AND cast a warding bond that never seems to hurt him.
Humans have medium Armor, Shield and pole arm proficiency. Is there something I’m missing? Wyll and Gale can wear so much good stuff they never had in early access.
For early part of the game. And this is a hot take; I feel like "Alert" makes for an excellent first choice, especially for casters. This is also mostly for those who are playing HM.
Giving Gale 'Moderately Armored' as his first choice Feat allows him to wear Medium Armor + Shield, allowing him to hit an AC of 19 *easily*.
For the early part of the game, it's been great. Lots of misses + Gale focuses on Concentration spells. You can one-hand staffs, so any +2 shield will do. You get to keep more spell slots, too. I can report that this combo has been working out well for the **early** part of the game.
Edit: after reading comments I deserve the downvotes lol
Gale already has shield prof, so you use a very important early feat for medium armor, and imo it’s not worth it and if you feel the need for higher ar just multiclass, which will likely be more beneficial
Gale already has shield proficiency as he is a human. Give him no armor + mage armor and you can use vestments that give you spellcasting bonuses and armor bonuses, reaching that 19 AC or more with even less effort.
Mage Armor + shield + 14 dex gives 17, and you get to spend a feat on something else. Not worth it, imo, except to be able to equip magic items that are medium armor for specialized builds.
I mean, if you start him out with 17 INT, 16 CON, 15 DEX, you can get him to 18/16/16 at Level 4. That's what I normally do before going for Feats at 8.
Just start with a level or two of fighter. Con saves, heavy armor prof, some light healing, the ability to get another +1 to ac, and you get action surge if you go all the way to 2. Level 2 of fighter isn't worth it in my eyes vs the higher level spell slot and sacrificing the bonus ability a lot of wizards get at 11.
That 1/11 would cost you your last feat but look what you get vs the feat. That 1/11 split still gets a 6th level spell slot. You do lack the extra spell slot and extra spell choice you would at lvl 12 of a monoclass wizard. However you can grab the extra 6th level spells through scribing but you still miss the slot.
Or even better do a level of one of the various clerics with medium or heavy armor prof depending on which is more appealing to you. In return you also get possibly the best cantrip in the game with guidance, some good level 1 cleric spells, and it allows you keep that 2nd level 6 spell slot even if you miss out on the extra 6th level spell. Just scribe those.
It also let's you get the lvl 1 special cleric ability. I find a nature cleric is pretty good. Extra skill profiency some useful bonus spells, and have a d12 cantrip which increases as you level. Instead of poison spray you can get thorn whip and move enemies into an aoe or bad terrain. Also gets useful ritual spell.
There are about 3-4 really good cleric 1st level choices regarding what you get with the 1st level ability. I find with the lack of channel divinity charges you get as a 1st level cleric, you want good passive stuff for the most part from your domain or stuff that doesn't require charges. Pay attention to the bonus spells too. That can make a difference.
You know very well how useful Alert is. There is a vast chasm between "it's not actually s+ tier/mandatory like everyone thinks" and "a weak pick".
Game is full of weak feats; Alert is one of the strongest options.
Not at level 4. It's a terrible choice at level 4, especially for a caster that should have innately high dexterity.
Skipping asi, GWM, savage attacker, sharpshooter, spell sniper, etc for alert is in act 1. You're putting yourself way behind by doing that.
Some ppl don't understand how strong a +1 ASI is, or how bad it is to fall behind of the % curve and not follow enemie's stat progression. You give away your first ASI on a wizard, you ain't hitting shit for the rest of the game.
Moderately Armored is strong asf for Wizards, Sorcerers, and Warlocks in the early game, and highly underrated.
"Dip Fighter/Cleric"
And delay your class features and Counterspell access.
"Take Dual Wielding"
Not a bad option if you don't have Light Armor Prof. The Moderately Armored path enables the Speedy Lightfeet for potentially more damage and has more potential AC though.
After level 6, sure, respec at 7 to Cleric 1/Wizard 6 with a different feat. Early game though, Moderately Armored is really good and super underrated.
Take a level of cleric first, knowledge domain. Mystra as diety obviously.
Tempest works too, though needs 2 levels to get the full effect.
I did that when I made him a lightning evocation wizard, that was a really fun run.
Personally I prefer making him an int-based storm sorcerer-tempest cleric-divination wizard for that sort of build. Casting chain lightning on five targets in one turn(if you’re pre-hasted, made enough sorcery points for quickened casting and twin casting it twice - and got them arcane battery staves for spell slots, course) and having destructive wrath and portent dice to make sure it hits harder still and with less chance for missing never gets old.
I'm running divination for the first time right now, really enjoying it. I'll have to try that combination.
How do you make them int based? Wouldn’t there cleric/sorc spells still use wisdom and charisma?
A single level in wizard lets you scribe any scroll for your caster level and cast those with int; I rely on these spells like chromatic orb, glyph of warding, lightning bolt, chain lightning etc for damage. Sorcerer spells were things like shield, magic missile, misty step, cloud of daggers, haste, counterspell… Same for cleric: basically only ever casting create water(till you get it from storm sorcerer), bless and sanctuary. My preferred split was 8 storm sorcerer/2 tempest cleric/2 divination wizard to get most sorcery points while still accessing portent dice and destructive wrath.
Worth pointing out that counterspell does use your spellcasting modifier.
Huh, TIL. I thought that there’s only a check if you’re counterspelling a spell of a higher spell level than the one you’re expending to counter said spell.
You’re correct, but since you can only see the base level of the spell rather than if they’re upcasting, it’s still helpful to have a high spellcasting modifier.
I mean, even if you know what spell it is, using a 3rd level slot to counter a 6th level spell is better than using a 6th level slot.
That's correct. But it uses your modifier for that roll. It doesn't always use it, but it's not like it's a spell that completely doesn't care about your modifier.
I’ll have to give it a try. Thank you!
Agree it meshes best with Wiz, I like to take 3 levels in it too if I can get War Caster if I don’t have e it yet. Edit - Take Spell sniper if I have the other caster feats.
After reading comments, totally agree now. Switched it up. This is a good sub. 👍
Oooo that's edgy now I feel bad about nipping at his hand.
Doesn't this lock you out of getting level 6 wizard spells though?
Thats the great thing, it does not. You get full spell slot progression, and you choose your level 6 wizard spells at level 11 wizard.
Because… classes are categorized as full casters, half casters, non casters. And your spell availability in bg3 in based on your caster level not class level. Full casters get a level of caster for each class level. These are wizard, sorcerer, cleric, Druid, I don’t know about warlock and bard but probably. Half casters it’s every 2 levels counts as a level of caster. Paladins, rangers for sure, eldritch knights? and trickster rogues maybe too? Non casters the levels don’t count at all. So if you’re paladin 4, sorcerer 8 you’re a 10th level caster and just miss out on level 6 spells but if you’re a cleric 2, wizard 10 you’re a level 12 caster
EK and arcane tricksters are 1/3rd casters, you'd need 3 levels to get a full caster level.
Oof that’s rough.
its why they say that Arcane Trickster is the best scroll user in the game! they get https://bg3.wiki/wiki/Magical_Ambush but only second level spell slots...
Yep. Hold person from stealth is kinda cracked.
Bard is a full caster and gets the same spell slot progression as cleric, wizard, sorcerer, and druid. Warlock is unique given Warlock spell slots; levels in Warlock do not count for normal spell slot progression at all.
Oh my god this changes everything.
Wait till you learn about just 1 level of wizard and rest cleric or bard. Not that I'm recommending anyone actually play ridiculous 1 wiz builds
Wouldn’t the spells be INT based though, so you’d need both high INT and WIS or CHA
People mostly get away with just not using spells that need high Int to work. Getting something like Haste, conjure elemental, resilient sphere, globe of invulnerability, etc are pretty damn good.
Typically wizard spells are used for things that don't have a DC, but yes you need enough INT for spell memorization slots. The ogre circlet of 17 int can be used if nothing else
In all fairness, 10/1/1 bard/fighter/wizard is a well known and extremely strong build. The single level multiclass to wizard gives the ability to learn any utility spell you like (shield is among the best), and completes the 11 full caster levels required to unlock a level 6 spell slot. This build doesn't get access to level 6 bard spells, but can learn things like Globe of Invulnerability, Conjure Elemental, etc. It will often consume the level 6 slot to upcast Hold Person/Monster, Confusion, or Command.
Such a build is so far removed from dnd that you're basically playing a different game; do whatever is fun to you of course, but I don't recommend it and have zero interest.
This is an excellent point. Wizards can essentially learn every spell out there so long as they meet the criteria, it’s not like sorcs who only get one per level. In fact I think the only thing a Wiz will miss out on is a feat, and you’re kinda gaining that from the stuff you get on the cleric dip.
You don't even need to choose wizard spells, can just learn them from scrolls. A single level of wizard (yes just 1) and 11 in some full caster like cleric or bard actually works to cast *all the wizard spells*. Not that I recommend this silliness to anyone
Minor addition: You cant get Counterspell from Scroll scribing so if you want that with Wiz 1 you need to get it from somewhere else (Sorc 5 / Lore Bard 6 / Lock 5).
If you have one level of wizard you can scribe any spell up to your highest level spell slot into your spellbook, so you can take a few levels of other spellcasting classes and still have level 6 spells
Could I be 1 Wizard 11 Bard and still use level 6 spells AND learn spells from scrolls??
Yes you can. Bear in mind wizards are prep casters and can only prep a number of spells equal to your wizard level plus intelligence mod and wizard spells will use int for attack roles and save DCs. A pretty good work around is to use the warped headband of intellect to set your int to 17. That will give a one level wizard dip 4 prep slots and decent rolls/DCs.
Damnit. I didn't get that headband. Ogres gone now I'm pretty sure.
If you can go back to Act 1 areas you can still get it
Please tell me how? Are the ogres still around?
You go back to Act 1 areas and you blow the horn. As long as you aren't past temple of Shar's point of no return, you're good
I don't have the horn anymore....shit. maybe I sold it.
Came back to say, I went back to Act 1 areas, bought the horn back, blew it and nothing happened.
Afaik yes but INT will be your spellcasting stat for scroll spells, so you'll need to rely on the helm of arcane acuity for swords bard, not sure how lore bard works? Int 17 circlet + battlemage potions I assume?
It's whatever the last class you went is. So going 1 fighter 1 wis 1 bard is how you level the age old build so that your scrolls cast from charisma. Then if you need the odd wizard spell arcane acuity makes up for having 10 int or whatever you end up with. I usually go 12-14 personally and take the 16 in charisma as arcane acuity is that strong, but honestly it's up to the person. It also only counts for caster levels. Ie 1 level in fighter doesnt alter it but reaching level 3 EK will. It also doesn't take into account if you were to say go 1 wis 1 bard then 1 wiz. It's still cast with charisma as it's the last additional class. it's odd but whatever. Should probably utelize the highest spell DC stat you have out of all caster classes but we make do
I meant casting from scrolls that you scribed into your spellbook, not directly using the scrolls in battle. Since you learned then as wizard don't they use INT?
Yeah scrolls learnt use int. But you can get around that via last class multiclassed eg if you want the spells to scale higher.
Tempest is a great pick
Cleric dip works, but you delay your class features and Counterspell by a level. So it can be better to roll Wiz up to 6, then at level 7 respec Cleric in and Moderately Armored out.
This is the true answer.
Until level 6 I just have him weak Minthara's armor.
Yeah, the Spidersilk Armor is dope. I didn't highlight it the comment you're responding to, but the bigger reason for Moderately Armored is the Speedy Lightfeet + Expeditious Retreat combo. The higher initiative and AC are the cherries on top.
Divination Wiz 8 / Knowledge Cleric of Mystra 4 Feats: Skilled, ASI, Ritual Caster / Lucky (prefer RC to freely talk with animals and dead without amulet and potions).
I like to take Tempest I feel like it meshes best with Wiz.
I'm SO gonna do this now. it makes so much sense. He would know some divination magic for sure to appease his Mystra!!
Come to say this, it just fits
Plus you get command early which cheeses the everburn blade guy.
Don't bother, go cleric first level then rest wizard
This. 1 level of cleric gives you way more than the extra feat you'd get at level 12
Especially if you just waste the feat on moderately armoured.
Exactly
What does it give you?
Medium armor (heavy if you pick tempest, life, or war), simple weapons (martial if you pick tempest or war) shield proficiencies, guidance cantrip, extra spells prepared, access to healing spells (notably healing word), access to the bless spell which boosts accuracy and saving throws of you and your party. Also gives access to sanctuary which can be used to make sure your concentration spells like hold monster stay active
Think he already has shield prof due to being human.
Well yeah, but this works for any race you want to play.
Yeah that's a lot for one level
Yep. Both in BG3 and Dnd 5e Cleric 1 is one of the best single level multiclasses you can do and works well on any caster. It also doesn't slow down your spell slot level progression but does slow down you spell level known progression (except in bg3 with wizards because they can prep spells for any slot level they have)
Haven’t played since September, but I thought I read that they patched that out a couple months ago. Was it something else with the way wizards multiclass that was fixed, and I just misunderstood it?
I also haven't played since September so I unfortunately cannot answer you. To whoever downvoted me: I guess next time someone asks me a question I can't answer, would you prefer I give misinformation?
They only fixed wizard scribing in honor mode.
I just did it yesterday. Cleric 11 wizard 1, works fine.
This is incorrect. They have fixed non-item saving throw stat basis but that wasn’t honour-mode specific.
1 or 2 lvl dips are soo good in this game, especially since they compete against an ASI instead of the lvl 20 capstone like in D&D.
See, what I hate about multiclassing in DnD is the fact that you see you're going to miss out on the lvl 20 capstone(s), but the likelihood is that you wouldn't be seeing them anyway
Create water as well to pump up that lightning or cold damage
Some weapon proficiencies/ armour + cantrips I guess and of course the cleric dialogue options
Ah yeah, since the last level in wizzard doesn't really give you much may as well
In addition to what has already been said light clerics get a really great 1st lvl feature in warding flare. It's basically a worse shield, but it's infinite uses, so if it's right before gales turn and you don't need the benefit from shield in that the +5 lasts up to a round, you can just warding flare, and you can also fall back on it when u run out of 1st/2nd lvl slots to use shield with.
Isn’t it better to go 1 wizard and the rest cleric?
No to get the armor proficiencies it has to be your first class. A one level wizard dip does almost nothing for a pure cleric too. You can use it to permanently learn some one time scrolls like Summon Shovel but that isn't really enticing. Find Familiar is also decent.
>No to get the armor proficiencies it has to be your first class. Unless you pick Light or War (and Tempest?) domain. The subclasses give full benefits upon multiclassing.
i mean… if you do one level wizard then the rest cleric, don’t you have access to the full cleric AND wizard spell list in the game?
Yes, though you need both int and wis to use them effectively. TBH 1wiz/11cler doesn't seem that good, esp compared to 1cler/11wiz. (1wiz/11sorc is pretty nice though... Has the same stats issue on int/cha though. Headband of Intellect in act 1 can help a lot.)
well 1 cleric/11 wiz doesn’t get all the good cleric spells though right? I guess i just might disagree about what seems good. To me it seems like lvl 1 wiz/lvl 11 cleric is seemingly strictly better than either a level 12 wizard or a level 12 cleric. so i burn one stat and have to me use an equipment slot for the CON amulet or something but then i have a full cleric with access to all the best wizard spells.
you need to always have your main spellcasting stat be levelled into last so that item uses like arcane battery or the headpieces that give free spells use int in this case
just make him abjuration man. no one tanks more than an abjuration wizard and he does not need puny metal armors for that
I love abjuration on Gale. I respeced him to start as level 1 sorcerer but with Wizard stats (for con save proficiency and white dragon ancestry for Armor of Agathys). One level into Tempest cleric gives you the lightning damage reaction, Heavy and Medium armor (although I prefer to keep his AC as low as possible to bait attacks) but more importantly Create Water spell that you can cast the cantrip version when enemies are next to you. The rest of the levels go into Wizard for massive arcane ward stacks. Pick up Blade Ward or better Warding Bond from an ally and you are good to go. You can wear heavy plate armors for the damage reduction but like I said I like having my AC as low as possible. Basically I just dash around and provoke opportunity attacks as much as possible, spray water on occasion and let enemies mill themselves when hitting me.
You may enjoy this build! https://youtu.be/OfJ9aoEyVuY?si=BUQCWBVEwDPbs9I1 There's more condensed version on his channel
I haven’t tried his Valor Bard yet but it does sound like a lot of fun. I like his channel a lot. Funny story time: my wife’s grandpa passed recently (ok not off to a funny start) and we flew last week for his funeral. My wife was hungry so we stopped at a restaurant right after leaving the airport. There was one other couple ordering in front of us and I thought to myself, wow that really sounds like the D4 guy. Well, he turned around and it was him. I chatted with him for a minute and I have to say he is just as nice in person as he seems like he would be on his channel.
First my condolences but second I'm really glad to hear Colby is a good guy in real life. Doesn't surprise me at all! That build looks really fun!
I’m doing my first abjuration run with gale, it’s honor mode and i wanted him a bit more tanky and man it’s awesome!!! Who needs armor?
wait until you level him up a bit. he cant be killed, and he will not allow other characters to die either. make sure you have as many abjuration spells on you as possible to keep pumping up that ward. glyph of warding is abjuration and deals decent AoE damage 😉
So i don’t get how often i’m supposed to be casting them.. just spam blade ward at camp or something?
what I meant was that when an abjuration spell cand o the trick, use it instead of a different school alternative. example: instead of fireball, fire ward glyph. instead of hold person, banish. and get items that give you abju spells like that one robe that gives you agathys, etc.
so can you cast the ward glyph where they are already standing?
yep. it is imo one of the best spells. a better version of sleep, a decent version lf fireball for each element, and the repulsion one is amazing for ledge kills
Upcast Armor of Agathys from sorc dip, then use items with Abjuration spells to max out the ward. I have a bunch sitting in his inventory for just this purpose.
agree with that. i did it with my gale origin play, abjuration and use a shield, that fix the problem
I always go abjuration. The ally ward he gets feels so romantic when he protects you
yes. we all need a wizardy nerd to cast magic ward on us sometimes
don't think it's worth he already have shield prof so you're trading a potential ASI, warcaster, resilient, dual wielding, alert, lucky (if he go divination iz funny), ect... just for medium armor ? If you really want to armor him up, just respec him and take the first level in fighter, you'll get all armor prof, a fighting style (defense for +1 free AC), cons prof and a BA heal but he does look sexy af in this armor, I'll give you that
Yeah there are a couple of sets that grant proficiency also
light cleric is better for gale since it doesnt change his spellslot scaling and comes with warding flare
You’re right he is hot in that armor
This is not a great option. You’re sacrificing so much just to do what have medium armor?
The issue with this is the game’s itemization, a lot of the good Wizard items are robes, whereas medium armor are typically enchanted with more martial oriented enchantments.
The [Dark Justiciar Half Plate](https://bg3.wiki/wiki/Dark_Justiciar_Half-Plate_\(Very_Rare\)) you can get by going the sharran route gives advantage on CON saves (otherwise the light [Armour of Landfall](https://bg3.wiki/wiki/Armour_of_Landfall) is 2nd best)
Gale can get advantage on concentration without items or feats
it goes away
Tbh this is an awful candidate for moderately armored. The shield prof is 90% of the reason you take it. You can instead go for 18 dex and light armor, or alert, or w/e. But you do you bb boo
But you could have 18 int and 16 dex instead
This is a terrible idea.
“Hot take” just seems to mean bad idea these days
Every so often, you get a good hot take, but it cools down real fast
Or it just means “my opinion” with no implication of anything controversial or unusual about it. Like “hot take: I like apple pie.”
Why not just take his first level in fighter? Gives you more HP, heavy armor + martial weapon proficiency and proficiency in Con-saves, saving the need for resilient: con as well. (Cleric is a great dip for wizard as well, trading con saves for more spells. But this has been discussed in the comments already quite extensively)
2 Tempest Cleric gives you much better mileage. You can use Wizard's Spell Learning feature to stay on curve with spells, and getting martial gear and maxing out the damage of big AoE spells is kind of sick. As a Human, Gale also has a baseline of Light Armor and Shields, so I really don't see the appeal to Moderately armored
What is champy: high, in your stats
I think it's his approval with OP's character
I am high. And these comments make a lot of sense. Dipped and cleric and now I see everyone’s point.
Don't forget that you can use Wizard's spell learning feature to learn any spell you have the spell slot to cast. Wizard mutliclassing is lowkey kind of OP.
OPs Tav/Durge is named Champy, and Gale's approval with them is High
Huge waste of a feat
There's two magic armour sets that grant proficiency for anyone wearing them which will get you through acts 2 and 3 just fine.
Also, the best gear for almost all wizard builds are clothing...
Hot take, you can infinitely respec every single character so there's no reason for anyone to be a certain class or play a certain way. Barbarian Gale is totally possible.
I'm a noob currently act 2 how do you recruit more than 3 people?
That's just how the menu interface is on console, it lets you access everyone's stuff while at camp and shows all their portraits.
Not on PC?
This picture is specifically the console interface, but someone else commented that this function also exists on PC, just a bit different. Just tested it, totally works! Which is awesome, because I missed being able to do it when I switched to PC. When you're in camp a new button titled "camp companions" shows up in the bottom left corner of the screen, and when you click it it brings up an additional inventory screen where you can click on each of the other companions' banner icon to get access to their stuff.
The meta is to give him Dual Wielder and stack staves like Melf and Spellsparkler. It’s almost the same as snagging an ASI with the bonus of damage riders
Moderately Armored with the Speedy Lightfeet tho
My playstyle favors burst and control on Gale as opposed to stacking durability or AC. I find that prolonged combat skews rng away from my favor since we’re usually outnumbered and stuff hits really hard on HM.
Speedy Lightfeet plays into that though? You get the Lightning Charges off the BA, so you start out with them before you attack. Combo'd with the Spellsparkler, you can use the 1d8+1 combo hit more frequently, and the Shield and Blast Pendant more aggressively. The +1 Dex puts you to 18, giving +4 initiative. Vs +2 initiative enemies (most of them), Gale will be going first 94% of the time. Vs the handful of +3's, 81% of the time (or 94% w/ Bow of Awareness or Hide Armor+2). This effectively gives Gale an extra turn to dish out justice and helps free up the initiative boosting gear for other characters so they all can sync their turn orders more frequently.
Do you just dash immediately before combat starts? I don’t see myself ever doing it in combat if Gale can’t do it as a BA.
Expeditious Retreat makes dashing a BA.
Oh I see. Thanks I never pick that spell but I’ll be doing this until I pick up boots of Stormy Clamour
Np. It's really fun, and the combo is how I stumbled into Moderately Armored. I used it with my EK in my previous run. Tried it with Gale in this one and was like "Oh, Medium Armor? Ugh..I don't want to delay improved portent but I want these boots!" Then I realized. Moderately Armored. My salvation. I ended up swapping Moderately Armored for Cleric at 7 and just kept up with the combo until Act 3, but I had someone else on Stormy Clamour.
what is champy high?
OPs character is named Champy and Gale has a High approval for them
oh I see, I've never seen the console layout for this game so I thought it was something I didn't know existed lol
No worries lol if it makes you feel any better, I envy you guys on PC. Your layout is far superior imo
yeah it's not something I imagine is optimal to play with a controller that's for sure
It's not even a controller problem, it's just that the entire UI is different in ways that don't make sense. Like the differences between our character sheets and inventory are vastly different, and there's really no good reason for that. And I get that action wheels are the default for controllers, but hot bars are controller friendly, too, and much easier to manage. That being said, minor gripes are minor and aren't gonna stop me from playing lol
just curious does console allow for connecting a mouse and keyboard and playing that way? and yeah for sure, don't wanna miss out on the game of last year over something like that
I know pay natively has support for m+k, but I don't think the console version of the game has support for both. There aren't any settings that I have seen to switch inputs, nor to swap to a m+k friendly UI, and the console UI is very unfriendly to m+k lol Though I suppose it is possible for the UI to auto-swap if it detects a m+k? Idk. Now I'm curious lol I may have to steal my wife's keyboard and test it out
A better approach might be to to make Lae'zel your caster and get a more impactful first feat. Luminous armor is indeed really good on a caster.
There’s no reason to not go full wizard including in terms of feats. You can still get your AC up to like 23 minimum in act 3 without armor
I always just make him into an Eldritch knight with a headband of intellect, I do this because the image of Gale as a frat bro fighter posing so completely as a wizard that he became Mystra's chosen makes me giggle uncontrollably.
Nah, that's Shadowhearts armor to turn her into the Spirt Guardian Lawn Mower. Gale gets the lightning charges pieces until his Weave gear in Act 3.
I solo grym at lvl 7 with gale. Without using hammer.. was beautiful
Mage armor + shield
That everyone has disagreed with you indicates that this is in fact, a hot take.
Its a good pick, but Heavy Armor Cleric dips are so loaded for the cost that its hard to argue against them instead for any reason other than RP.
I have dual wielding feat to get two staffs bb - all that spell save DC boosting baybeeeeee
Take 2 levels of fighter instead
get 1 level of light cleric to start
… mage armor?
or just take a level in light cleric
Just get the helldusk armor and put you wizard in it. No need to spend a feat, or dip a level, or anything and your wizard is in heavy armor and considered proficient.
Ew. Wizard with armour and a shield.
Give gale 16 dex - AC +3 (and +3 to initiative) Cast mage armor for - AC +3 Equip shield - AC +2 That’s 18 AC in act 1. You only have 19 AC in this picture. Seems like a waste of a feat.
Robe of the Weave bruh
I personally like fighter 1 / wiz 11 for my honor runs. Guided missile machine gun with heavy armor (using adamantine armor) and gloves that cause reverb. Good damage per turn that also knocks people prone, 23 AC, and con proficiency. You do lose a spell slot but I feel like it's a decent trade. Even while being evocation, gale is the most tanky character in my party. At level 6 you can respect into 1 fighter, 5 wiz.
Hot take, that’s a bad idea … optimization speaking only, the folks in the comments had it right. Take a level in cleric, tempest or war
Multiclassing > armoured feat
16 dex and mage armor imo Add warding bond in act 2 and he has the AC of a 2h fighter
Youd be better off taking weapon Master and putting a point in dex 🤣
What in the world is this horrible UI? Is this console? 🤮
moderately armored gives +1 dex, medium armor prof, and shield prof. Humans are already proficient with shields due to Civil Militia. +1 dex is only impactful if you leave your dex at 13. If you are using an ASI to take a feat, might as well take a dip and get 1 less ASI instead. Fighter and cleric are obvious.
My hot take: Cheese the Helldusk Armor off of Raphael in Act 1 and give it to Gale (no proficiency check). /Or less good, wait until Act 3 to get the Elven Chain and defeat Rafael in the House of Hope to equip him.
I forgot to downvote this post last time I was here, I'm glad it's still on the front page.
I honestly dont think he needs it. Dnd does a very poor job with keeping wizards squishy. Mage armor is equal to a lot of medium armors. So instead I just give Gale the Gloves of Dexterity from the mountain pass, making his base AC 16 with mage armor up. That plus shield is enough. 21 AC is more than enough most of the time. Plus its possible to get it higher without wasting a feat. The ring of protection, the cape in act 2 both give +1 plus a bonus to saving throws
2 warlock, 1 cleric, rest wizard (abjuration). Keep armor of ag up casted 100% of the time and use nothing but ice spells. Keep entire map frozen and when enemies do get to you, they kill themselves every time they hit.
God people are so bitchy on this server. All the comments are so pressed for 0 reasons. Yes it's not a good choice but holy fuck some of you are toxic
in my experience AC doesnt even matter. I have an ac18 and get hit by everything. my last character had ac14 and was missed by most attacks. it seems entirely random.
Kid named level 1 cleric dip
I always just end up respeccing him to 3 cleric, 9 abjuration, and going with heavy armor master. That way he can cover aid, longstrider, mage armor, AND cast a warding bond that never seems to hurt him.
Humans have medium Armor, Shield and pole arm proficiency. Is there something I’m missing? Wyll and Gale can wear so much good stuff they never had in early access.
Abjuration is a whole other level of survival with arcane ward
For early part of the game. And this is a hot take; I feel like "Alert" makes for an excellent first choice, especially for casters. This is also mostly for those who are playing HM. Giving Gale 'Moderately Armored' as his first choice Feat allows him to wear Medium Armor + Shield, allowing him to hit an AC of 19 *easily*. For the early part of the game, it's been great. Lots of misses + Gale focuses on Concentration spells. You can one-hand staffs, so any +2 shield will do. You get to keep more spell slots, too. I can report that this combo has been working out well for the **early** part of the game. Edit: after reading comments I deserve the downvotes lol
Gale already has shield prof, so you use a very important early feat for medium armor, and imo it’s not worth it and if you feel the need for higher ar just multiclass, which will likely be more beneficial
Gale already has shield proficiency as he is a human. Give him no armor + mage armor and you can use vestments that give you spellcasting bonuses and armor bonuses, reaching that 19 AC or more with even less effort.
Mage Armor + shield + 14 dex gives 17, and you get to spend a feat on something else. Not worth it, imo, except to be able to equip magic items that are medium armor for specialized builds.
Plus you can go to 16 DEX if you want even more.
Though 16 CON is probably better overall
I mean, if you start him out with 17 INT, 16 CON, 15 DEX, you can get him to 18/16/16 at Level 4. That's what I normally do before going for Feats at 8.
Just start with a level or two of fighter. Con saves, heavy armor prof, some light healing, the ability to get another +1 to ac, and you get action surge if you go all the way to 2. Level 2 of fighter isn't worth it in my eyes vs the higher level spell slot and sacrificing the bonus ability a lot of wizards get at 11. That 1/11 would cost you your last feat but look what you get vs the feat. That 1/11 split still gets a 6th level spell slot. You do lack the extra spell slot and extra spell choice you would at lvl 12 of a monoclass wizard. However you can grab the extra 6th level spells through scribing but you still miss the slot. Or even better do a level of one of the various clerics with medium or heavy armor prof depending on which is more appealing to you. In return you also get possibly the best cantrip in the game with guidance, some good level 1 cleric spells, and it allows you keep that 2nd level 6 spell slot even if you miss out on the extra 6th level spell. Just scribe those. It also let's you get the lvl 1 special cleric ability. I find a nature cleric is pretty good. Extra skill profiency some useful bonus spells, and have a d12 cantrip which increases as you level. Instead of poison spray you can get thorn whip and move enemies into an aoe or bad terrain. Also gets useful ritual spell. There are about 3-4 really good cleric 1st level choices regarding what you get with the 1st level ability. I find with the lack of channel divinity charges you get as a 1st level cleric, you want good passive stuff for the most part from your domain or stuff that doesn't require charges. Pay attention to the bonus spells too. That can make a difference.
It's not a hot take, it's a bad take. Alert at 4 is a weak pick.
> Alert at 4 is a weak pick. Not true. Everything else about his take was rubbish yes.
Yes it is true and if you believe otherwise you haven't really thought about it
You know very well how useful Alert is. There is a vast chasm between "it's not actually s+ tier/mandatory like everyone thinks" and "a weak pick". Game is full of weak feats; Alert is one of the strongest options.
Not at level 4. It's a terrible choice at level 4, especially for a caster that should have innately high dexterity. Skipping asi, GWM, savage attacker, sharpshooter, spell sniper, etc for alert is in act 1. You're putting yourself way behind by doing that.
Some ppl don't understand how strong a +1 ASI is, or how bad it is to fall behind of the % curve and not follow enemie's stat progression. You give away your first ASI on a wizard, you ain't hitting shit for the rest of the game.
That *is* a hot take Insofar that it’s terrible That’s the definition of hot take these days anyway
Nah just go 2 tempest/4 wiz/6 sorc and build for chain lightning spam
Moderately Armored is strong asf for Wizards, Sorcerers, and Warlocks in the early game, and highly underrated. "Dip Fighter/Cleric" And delay your class features and Counterspell access. "Take Dual Wielding" Not a bad option if you don't have Light Armor Prof. The Moderately Armored path enables the Speedy Lightfeet for potentially more damage and has more potential AC though. After level 6, sure, respec at 7 to Cleric 1/Wizard 6 with a different feat. Early game though, Moderately Armored is really good and super underrated.