I'm on copium that elixirs will not restock on honor mode meaning there will be a limited supply, and that some limitations on ranged slashing flourish is included on honour mode. I don't really expect these changes. But damn would I love them just so these topics aren't the default answer to nearly every question on the sub.
Polearm master bonus action attack though...
Why not limit merchant inventory restocks entirely? Infinite scrolls arguably invalidates more of the class balance than infinite elixirs does. Every merchant having a set, non-randomized inventory sounds like a decent addition to honor mode's difficulty.
This is senseless. People who want to impose that limitation on themselves already can.
You're not asking for this to be implemented, you're asking for it to be forced on only everyone who doesn't want it, because the people who do want it ALREADY have it.
I agree, for example, im currently about to finish a tactician run (still havent tried honor but whatever) where im not using any tadpoles nor speed potions or cloud giant strength elixirs... I have the gauntlets from house of hope but havent changed my ability scores (I dumped dexterity on this character and could have used new numbers to improve initiative)
You can always impose handicaps on yourself. Besides there are so many more things that need to be addressed raather than that. You want to cheese elixirs? Cool, that's on you, what is the percentage of players actually doing it? I bet it is a rather small number
You can apply your comment to literally any request for balancing. “People who want to impose that limitation on themselves already can [never pick Swords Bard].” Restrictions and nerfs can be a good thing for player experience and game balance, even if it seems like it’s “forced”.
Well if you want to play swords bard but hate that it's overpowered, then your only options are to either use it or not, but with elixirs and scrolls etc, you can have them, in a non-overpowered way by limiting yourself, that example is a different case.
Set inventory per merchant would kinda slap. It'd create whole new interesting routing puzzles, especially if there just isn't enough gold in the economy to get all the best in slot items. I mean, they'd also have the nerf the fuck out of robbing merchants for that to work, but if we're gonna dream.
Honestly I'd also couple it with a lot of trash loot being treated as trash. If anything it incentivises you to pick up less, because there's no reason to loot gremlin every random piece of shit in the early-mid game.
I do that in games I DM - like there's no way Aron or Dammon would want the shitty Goblin weapons that look barely held together. Or that an apothecary would buy 5 suits of Full Plate.
Same I just ignoring looting. I'm not gonna carry tons of trash weapons and armor and crap like gems.
If I need money, I'll find an isolated merchant and rob them for a while. I can't be bothered to hoard pointless loot.
I'm hoping the elixir restock goes away too. It's still easy enough to keep 1 or 2 characters constantly juiced on Strength Elixirs without vendor exploits, but a limited supply per playthrough at least creates an incentive to be efficient.
Ranged Slashing Flourish should just use the targeting system of Twinned Cast instead of the targeting system of Eldritch Blast like it does now.
Why not add limited long rests while you are at if this is truly a path you want to go down. If anything is limiting consequences for the builds people run it is the fact that 95% of the time you are free to long rest even when it makes no sense even in the games narrative. In fact the amount of elixirs would not matter on a vendor if you had a set amount of long rests per act or quest before you failed and got gameover.
The rests thing I am just more forgiving on. It is hard to translate resting in tabletop to a video game, but it is also an important mechanic. Every d20 TTRPG game struggles with it. Solasta is the best at it and does what you say, but with that comes a very linear story which would take away from BG3. But how do you limit long rests? You can only rest after doing X thing, after doing Y thing, and after doing Z thing? That type of rule would promote people to follow walkthroughs rather than play the game naturally. A limited number of rests per act? That could work but then peoples' playthroughs may get soft locked. Limiting resting is just a huge gameplay shift, it's a complicated subject to start with, and it is a complicated thing to adjust. Especially when it comes to the fact that story is delivered through rests. I rest so rarely that when I do rest I have to do so 5 or 6 times back-to-back in order to just catch up on story events.
Elixirs are different. There is nothing about elixirs that are difficult to translate from tabletop to BG3. Add it to random loot tables and/or let vendors sell limited quantities of them. Fine. No problems there. The issue (a far greater issue in my opinion than something like warlock extra attack stacking that Larian did fix) is people abusing vendor restock mechanics to get an unlimited number of eloxirs. Make it so vendors don't refresh elixirs. End of story. Being able to get an unlimited number of Str elixirs so that a character that dumps Str is a better Str character than another that invests in Str is just not how any of this should work. It isn't a "build." It's an exploit.
Yea and atm people are abusing long rests on builds/classes that clearly rely solely on spell slot spam. I personally fail to see how that is any different from using elixirs.
As for limiting long rests it is very simple have the story progress while you go to sleep like it would in the real world. For example you can have the ritual complete after you long rest 1 time at the grove in act 1. If you long rest 3 times the goblins get level 10 reinforcements from the big absolute army we actually never get to fight. Like not a few but a lot of them.
Then you can have the consequences get worse in act 2 and act 3 like if you take to many long rests in act 2 Ketheric forces take over the whole overworld with insane numbers and after certain amount of long rests you just get the gameover screen because the absolute won. Same goes for act 3 they even add tons of quakes in the act but somehow you can basically rest forever before confronting the Neitherbrain. This dose not even make any sense at all. They also have Orin kidnap people if you do not rescue them after 1 long rest she kill the one she has and takes another. This way you can run out of companions since she will eventually take the hirelings as well. Also once either side with Gortash/kill him and Kill Orin it forces the final battle.
As for guides really? people are already on Reddit/Youtube looking for builds to beat the game already not sure how "natural" that is when people figure out how to gear/play and level your characters for you.
Also all of the above are examples of how to limit long rests within the story itself and it makes sense as well.
Look, I agree that the rest system is not ideal. 100%. Strong agree. It would be great if resting had a bigger impact on BG3's world and since of urgency. You will struggle to find a person who believes this more strongly than me. I hate long resting. I tend to rest maybe 3 times per act, meaning that when I do rest I have to do it back-to-back-to-back 5 or 6 times just to see all the camp scenes. All I am saying is that the solutions you are proposing are more complex and fix a completely separate topic than the Str elixir issues. And any "fix" to the resting issues will cause other issues. Whereas just limiting the supply of elixirs on honour mode only is seemingly a fix for an overpowered exploit that honour mode was meant to address. I'd love to see both get changed. But one is a hell of a lot easier than the other to do.
There is a difference between a build guide saying take X levels in this class, then Y levels in that class, grab this feat and that feat, these are the best races, here are your starting ability scores, and some good weapons/armor for Act 1 is A, for Act 2 is B, and for Act 3 is C. As compared to one of the long rest systems I have seen genuinely proposed where people say, "Once you get to Act 2 you get to long rest. Once you get to Last Light you get a long rest. Once you get to Moonrise you get a long rest..." Because that system will promote a feeling of planning out your route through the game to make sure you don't unlock two long rests back-to-back. Planning your route every step through the game to make sure you get max efficiency from rests is different from even the most detailed build guide that may give instructions to find specific magic items but otherwise do not tell you exactly where to go and when to go there.
You have not proposed the above resting restrictions in this conversation. I want to make that clear again. But the one you do propose would lead to the same type of results. People would feel obligated to look up guides thinking, "Well I don't want to 'fail' parts of the game, therefore I am going to see what causes the world to progress in what ways and do things in that order." And this is a very different thing from the most detailed build guides. Maybe some guide for a sorc character includes a recommendation for Markoheshkir. So the build guide may say to go get the Birthright hat at the store and go to Lorroakan's Tower to get the staff. But they don't say, "You need to do A and B and C before your first long rest, you need to finish D before you take 3 long rests, once you set foot in E then it causes F to activate after one long rest so make sure you resolve that..." This system would absolutely lead to a pressure to make sure you play the game in a specific order so that you can see everything and get your desired ending, rather than the way you want to play. A build guide is not at all as handholdy.
Edit: going back to your original comment, you said, "If this is the path [I] really want to go down." You are setting up a slippery slope fallacy. I am putting the breaks on this sled. My wishes are almost certainly unlikely to be fulfilled, but they are tempered and you are the one bringing rests into this. Yes, a sorc being able to long rest between each fight for unlimited sorcery points is an issue. But I think Larian intended for rests to work the way they do. I do not believe Larian intended for elixirs to be exploited like this, and fixing it on honour mode would make character build discussions more interesting.
What makes you say that elixirs were not intended anymore than long rests were? Ethel at the grove always 100% refreshes with 3 str elixirs in fact the most common elixir found on any given vendor at least in my 300+ hours of play in this game is the 21 str elixirs the 27 indeed are pretty rare so are the mats to craft them with.
If you look at something else like bloodlust these are insanely rare elixirs I even checked due to me not using them at all in my last run I had barely managed to get 1 stack aka 20 bloodlust elixirs. We are looking at a run were 3 people in my run were running str elixirs my last one was running Vigilance.
But even besides long rests and elixirs you got other things like the fact you can buff Aid/longstrider/warding bond etc without the need to have those classes/people in your party as well. The amount of health offered by aid or even the benefits of something like Heroes' Feast which is hp + immensities+ wisdom sav advantages.
Also since you did address the elephant in the room and mentioned sorcs I am just gone go say it all the casters apart from a EB lock remain viable either by farming potions(assume this is as bad or worse than elixirs for you) in act 2 or spamming long rests. The amount of fights you can be a part of as a caster and do meaningful damage is not many if you can not actually use your spell slots to deal damage. It is not just down sorcery points here I got a sorc in my current run and using a cantrip feels so bad.
You talk about people running elixirs builds if people were limited on rests they would not think sorcs were the best class in the game like they do atm. Even with the ability to restore spells slots wizards would not be far behind either,
I am gone be frank I am bored of hearing swords bard over and over and over and over again even if you gutted rests even if you gutted elixirs I am 100% sure this would still be the lord and savoir of everything,
I am limiting my entire response to this comment with two things I have already said.... twice.
>What makes you say that elixirs were not intended anymore than long rests were? Ethel at the grove always 100% refreshes with 3 str elixirs in fact the most common elixir found on any given vendor at least in my 300+ hours of play in this game is the 21 str elixirs the 27 indeed are pretty rare so are the mats to craft them with.
1. If it is possible for a character that dumps Str to be a better Str build than a character that invests in Str, that is poor design or an exploit.
2. Again. The elixir "fix" is easy. Just turn off vendor refresh of them on honor mode. I have never used an elixir besides once when I needed fire resistance to get some loot from a corpse in Grymforge. I wouldn't give a damn if they removed all elixirs from the game period. Str and bloodlust and vigilance and heroism elixirs (stacks with bless) are all really strong. But I am not asking Larian to do that. I am hoping Larian will address the issue of Str elixirs because people make them a required part of builds and I am fucking tired of it. The other elixirs may be gamebreaking. Bloodlust especially. But they are powerful buffs and not a build cornerstone where your character falls apart or needs to be rebuilt from the ground up. without them. Yes, the game has other balance issues. I complain about them constantly to the point that I am about to stop modding the sub. Because I am tired of talking about them. Elixirs, tavern brawler, slashing flourish, arcane acuity, Duergar invisibility, casting multiple leveled spells in a turn, bloodlust elixirs, potions of speed, haste still letting you cast spells, camp casting, wet + lightning, busted weapons like Markoheshkir, abjuration wizard...I am tired of all of it and a quick use of the search function with "Phantomsplit" and any of the keywords above or many other keywords will result in finding many complaints by me. Even without using OP mechanics the game is still frustratingly easy. But Str elixir cheese is chief among my complaints because of how it steers discussion on this sub and should be an easy thing to fix. The game has many balance issues. I am talking about elixirs and slashing flourish in this post. That is it. I'd love to see other things you mention get fixed. I am already on a goddamn pipe dream to hope elixirs get fixed and you keep trying to throw me down a fucking slippery slope fallacy, pulling random bullshit out your ass and chucking it at me. "Just fix camp casting." Larian has been toning down camp casting for several patches. They tried to tone down transmutation wizard camp casting last patch and instead made it stronger. Many of the things you are mentioning are more difficult problems to address. In this post all I am addressing is elixirs cheese ans slashing flourish.
Have a good day.
It still baffles me that "Slashing" Flourish, a sword technique, somehow can be applied to ranged weapons which don't even slash. Even if it was limited to only melee, it would still be an amazingly strong skill.
The tooltip for mage hand legerdemain reads “your mage hand can stow away or retrieve objects carried by other creatures and use Thieves' Tools at range.”
Oh wait but it can’t. Filthy lying tooltip, ought to cut out its tongue.
My copium is that they fix potion throwing.
- No more killing with bottle
- No more breaking on random grounds
- No more simply lying on the juice without soaking it
Collateral damage of wanting there to be a limit on the number of Strength Elixirs available.
It obviously causes a lot of secondary problems if you just set inventory to never replenish, but the people who are asking are pretty much just focused on the one pair of items.
Hm, thinking those people should just choose not to buy them instead of all the people who enjoy having plentiful supplies having to lose it. Just weird they are requesting it as a fix, when it doesn't really sound like anything that needs fixing
It doesn't need fixing and they could just not use them.
My personal perspective is that any "set your stat to..." item is bad design because it undermines character builds that actually work for those stats - at least if it sets them equal to or higher than you could get on your own. However, that is completely irrelevant for this game's design. This game assumes you will have them and is based around it. Plus it's fun for some.
I could see the argument that they break Honor Mode, but, even then, lots of things do. It's an oversimplified suggestion that would shift the game towards one subset's personal taste. I even consider myself in that group, but I wouldn't suggest the core game change. I'd suggest getting a mod.
Me too. It’s been hard to find discourse on monk/barb/EK etc builds that doesn’t just boil down to “dump strength and chug.” To me that’s kinda boring, I want to feel like my character is powerful on his own merit and not just because I remembered to drink my morning elixir.
In the words of Tony Stark… “if you’re nothing without the suit then you shouldn’t have it.” Thats kind of how I feel about elixir farming, to each their own though.
Yes, exactly! And idk, having to chug potions every day, and keeping stocked up is super annoying. The gauntlets of hill giant strength are kinda acceptable tho. Considering the stats aren't really canon, you can kinda just ignore it if you're dumping strength and using those, but I can't feel that way for elixers
There’s nothing wrong with using str boosting *equipment* at all imo, in BG2 it wasn’t uncommon for most party members to be wearing a str belt or gloves or Crom Faeyr etc in the endgame. It’s even okay to build your character with the assumption that you’ll fill in your stats with those items later on. But those are permanent item effects that don’t require you to go outside of the normal gameplay loop to acquire or use them, and back in those days you couldn’t re-spec to tank your strength the moment you got them.
The idea of running a build that gets weaker the moment his head hits the pillow just doesn’t sit right with me. To me, doesn’t matter how easy the elixirs are to farm when relying on them just so your build can function is so immersion breaking.
Honestly even with like the hill giant gauntlets it mentioned, it kinda pisses me off that I'm not ACTUALLY strong, but like it's minor and ignorable enough to where I can just ignore it, unlike with the potions where it really just is that you're fucking juicing
I can agree with that sentiment, though I generally tend to give a pass to (most) OP bonuses from items, the game has so many pieces of gear that are much more broken than str gloves anyways. But most importantly cool items are fun. Roid smoothies, not as much.
I wouldn't suggest a mod for this at all. I'd suggest mods for things that are more difficult to avoid, like for example nerfing abjuration wizard if you want to. Abjuration wizard is my favorite tabletop Wizard subclass that made it into the game, but I will never use it without mods because its features are too strong in BG3.
The only reason I want vendors changed is so that builds I find interesting (e.g. builds which don't rely on abusing respeccing a mercenary and leveling them up one level at a time while stealing/buying elixirs) will be more commonly discussed and renew my interest in this community.
The game assuming you will have some elixirs I can agree with. Maybe just before a boss fight you pop a cloud giant elixir and bring your Str from 22 to 27. It seems a bit of a stretch for the game to assume you have unlimited elixirs so you can dump Str to 8, use an elixir to have 27 Str, and turn those ASIs and character creation ability scores invested in Str into feats or ability scores in other areas. With unlimited Str elixirs it is possible to have higher Str than a Str build, and more feats/other stats than a Str build. If cheesing the economy like this to invalidate strength as a stat to invest in is "intended" then that is a bit of a yikes from me.
Again, my interest is niche. That is why I know this is copium and don't actually expect Larian to actually make this change. It already is an option. Either you exploit vendor refresh mechanics to get unlimited elixirs or you do not. If it is an option then it will not change the discussion in this sub, and that is the only reason I care about this. I already play by the "option" of not using them. But my interest in the subreddit I created is practically non existent because of exploits like this.
If it is changed on honor mode for everyone then discussion on this sub for everyone will adjust as well. Just like it did with DRS, Bladelock extra attack stacking, and the partial "fix" of haste on honour mode. Being able to dump Str yet be permanently better as a Str character than a character that actually builds around Str is not a build. It is an exploit. It's not my playstyle. It's not what I want to read about. It is difficult to find motivation to write and share other builds knowing just how much elixir builds can outshine them.
>Being able to dump Str yet be permanently better as a Str character than a character that actually builds around Str is not a build. It is an exploit.
As someone who loves to optimise but still wants to role-play, I can't stand the idea of utilising a feat that doubles attack and damage based on Str... and not having any native Str. I'm running a native Str TB monk, and having to balance the MAD to get decent initiative, AC, movespeed, and Wis modifier is half the fun of it.
Extends to stat dumping in general. And the wizard 1 dip. The 10/1/1 SB I'm running uses native dex and is probably going to dip Light Cleric instead.
And not using scrolls. So I'm running a 12 Storm Sorc instead of 10/2 since I want to be able to cast CL natively.
But I'm chuckling at myself going through the trouble of doing this since the core components of each of the above builds; TB, arcane acuity and metamagic; are already so powerful that they break the game's difficulty without exploits
>If it is changed on honor mode for everyone then discussion on this sub for everyone will adjust as well.
I agree, imposing constraints that encourage build diversity would only enrich the game. On my first playthrough, I ran a berserker/thief with GWM, using ET to chuck throwing weapons from my inventory and also throw enemies at each other. It was so much goddamn fun, and it felt like how a Berserker is intended to be played. Then I discovered that I could do way more damage, with almost guaranteed accuracy, with a thrown dagger compared to my two hander. Converted to a full thrower build, completely trivialised Act 3 and almost died of boredom.
They're *trying* to limit it for other people. They want to make it harder in the way they like because then some people won't be able to do it, and that let's them feel superior to those people.
No. I don't give a shit if people use elixirs or not. I don't use them, don't care at all if others do.
But I am only interested in builds that don't use them. And elixirs are so exploitable they take up a lot of discussion space meaning there are less people talking about builds I do enjoy. I made this very clear in my original comment. I am only asking for this to be fixed in Honour mode where there is a presumed extra challenge like this, and I stated that the reason why is so that this mechanic does not answer so many questions that it is boring to even come to the sub
I am also the type who does not like to use str elixirs unless it makes sense from like an rp perspective, but ngl wanting in game changes so that reddit content changes is kind of a wild perspective. Not trying to hate or anything, I get where you’re coming from, but I think altering the experience for literally millions of players so that the discussion on bg3builds improves is kind of insane.
That said, there is nothing preventing people from advocating builds that eon’t abuse certain game mechanics. I have seen discussion of that sort a pretty good amount on this sub.
Why not create a different flair or something for builds that don’t “exploit” so one can just look for those sorts of posts? I haven’t posted any builds, but I intend to in due course, and basically everything I use never touches haste, giant elixirs, shadow blades, etc. I’d love to see those builds fall into a different category, personally.
>Why not create a different flair or something for builds that don’t “exploit” so one can just look for those sorts of posts?
I actually got started on this in Patch 4. I polled the community on what exploits they would or would not like to restrict from posts that follow a more strict ruleset. Then 2 things happened. First, the poll results showed that there were some things a large portion of this community was still ok with like DRS. I try not to be a dictator reddit mod who lets the imaginary power go to their head, but there was no way any balanced forms of gameplay can be expected when abusing a mechanic that allows characters to do thousands of damage per turn. And second honour mode came out with Patch 5. I was kinda waiting to see if Larian would tune more things like Duergar invisibility, elixir spam, slashing flourish spam, arcane acuity, tavern brawler, haste letting you cast spells, etc. But patch 6 came and went with no further restrictions, and I don't think they once mentioned anything about balance in this community update..
I know it is a pipedream to want Larian to change stuff just to make build discussions interesting again. I know it isn't going to happen. But they made honor mode and restricted OP mechanics for a reason. Honestly, elixir spam is more powerful than warlock extra attack stacking. Being able to cast a spell with haste is more powerful than warlock extra attack stacking. It really didn't seem like too much of a pipedream for them to at least whack some of the worst offenders. And discussion on this subreddit would benefit (in my opinion) as a result.
I have no idea how to do it, but one hopeful thing is that mod support is coming. Im with you, I don’t like cheesy stuff.
I’m hopeful for an honor mode + mod that nerfs a lot of the OP stuff in the game. I bet that’ll come soon after the mod tools start getting released. If so, you should plaster it all over the sub and make a flair for that when it happens.
Aside from that, I guess it would just need to be like a community driven thing. I dunno, I’d love to brainstorm a little more on this and come up with some real suggestions, because I really do get where you’re coming from and its generally how I play the game too
Oh wow, lol. I didn't even consider that. It's not even like it's some big PVP game. Wanting to take fun stuff away from many others so they can look down their nose at the 'peasants'? Oy how stupid.
They are making a strawman argument. What they are arguing is not what was claimed. I do not like elixirs, don't give a damn if others use them or not. But I made this sub because I am *that* interested in character builds. Elixirs are a skeleton key that answers so many questions on a game that is so easy that it makes me bored of the sub, and there is a very good chance I step down as mod after this patch because I lost interest a long time ago.
There's zero reason to want this. You can already impose a limitation on yourself. Literally nothing is gained. It is actually impossible for this to affect your play throughs if you want it, because you can already just do it.
Asking for the limitation isn't about your play throughs, it's about trying to force other people into your personal limitations.
As I said in another comment, the change would satisfy only a subset of the community and punish the rest. It is too subjective of a change. Even for honor mode, it would only affect some builds. It wouldn't magically make the game balanced unless it was part of a huge overhaul that would result in a completely different game.
Leave that to modding your personal game.
People need to watch Swen's GDC talk about DOS2 from years ago now, when people in the end ask questions, and one of them was about balance. Paraphrasing, but they go about "is it intended by us?", "is it fun?", and then go about "balance". Fun is subjective ofc, but that's why making a good game is really hard. Basically, it is a classic response of not ending up "balancing the fun out of the game" (which is usually applied to a players who try to do this). Making non-replenished inventories, limiting certain items for vendors to the set number per run (in any act/and each act), or whatever other rules doesn't sound like "fun", that only hardcore few would enjoy even on Honour Mode.
People also misunderstand intended interaction for an exploit. If it is within the rules, and as intended, and only select few figured out (which is kind of true), it isn't an exploit. Again, going back to GDC talk years ago, you know what people called exploit? Being able to switch to the character that isn't in the conversation and pickpocket NPC who is in the conversation with your companion. And the answer was, again paraphrasing, "congrats, you've figured out stuff, no, it is intended, by design, it isn't an exploit". (this question was followed up with "balance question")
I'm a bit biased towards gamedev here, although ofc not picking "sides". But, it is more of FYI about "balancing", "exploits" and so on, because right now people ask something that contradicts devs of the game design philosophy.
Fix ALL of Polearm Master. It still has like 3 bugs / non-functioning features (depending on viewpoint I guess?), maybe 4?
Also a merchant overhaul as a whole, make it less abusable. I'm fine with that being pure Honour too. Limit Scrolls severely to reign in the Cleric / Sorc multis, limit Elixirs severely, no restocks of general items every level up, etc.
Fix Slashing Flourish. Fix Arcane Trickster (or just stop it lying).
Make Minthara a playable Origin (New Beginnings, right...? Right guys?).
All pure copium but I dream big.
EDIT: Also an epilogue for controlling the brain where Withers just straight shit talks you for 5 minutes. You know, cause "Evil Endings".
> Also a merchant overhaul as a whole, make it less abusable. I'm fine with that being pure Honour too. Limit Scrolls severely to reign in the Cleric / Sorc multis, limit Elixirs severely, no restocks of general items every level up, etc.
Or, and hear me out, you just don't use them if you don't want to. It's like you have a problem overeating doritos so you think the fix is a worldwide ban on Doritos. Control. Yourself. Not. Others.
Why some of you people think things need to be changed because you can't limit yourself to just not do something is crazy. I'm glad people that think this way aren't making this game
Because single player games get balanced and patched all the time, idk why this is some kind of point of contention. There's a reason why Honor Mode doesn't have all the insane damage rider stuff and the Warlock extra attack bug. If there's a spell that does 1000 undodgeable damage, it's bad design to keep it in the game and just go "WELL JUST DON'T USE IT!" It warps the game design around it.
I dont think its unreasonable at all that the mode designed to be the most unforgiving removes and/or fixes mechanics that are very forgiving.
Honor mode already features plenty of changes that reduce the amount you can exploit the game, so clearly Larian is alright with doing so, so why stop with half measures?
Not being able to use certain mechanics because it's poorly designed sucks, some people want to use all the systems in the game and have it not crumble in half because of how strong they end up getting, honor mode is the perfect place to put these changes.
Having to just not use throwing builds or TB for example sucks, some people want to play those builds but not stomp the game, do they just not matter? You have an entirely separate mode if you want to cheese the mechanics, just play that and let people enjoy a properly balanced honor mode.
> (New Beginnings, right...? Right guys?).
they literally meant 2 new games
they also specifically separate origin and companions in the text, Minthara was never intended as origin and, according to them, doesn't work as origin, and Adam Smith who wrote her basically said that you might as well whole new game if Minthara would be an origin (thought it was a buils sub, what this Minthara nonsense is doing here)
The big one is that the bonus action attack doesn't apply damage riders like GWM or extra damage dice. I also thought that if you used Charisma for your attack as a Hexblade, then the BA attack still used Strength or Dex - but I could be wrong about this one.
Also, the opportunity attack triggers late, so enemies get slightly within the max range of your polearm before getting hit. This matters if you take sentinel (reduce an enemies movement to 0 when you hit them with an opportunity atttack), as it means they still get close enough to attack you.
The Opportunity Attack triggering late is the biggest one for me. That's like its key use in the tabletop - giving martials a measure of battlefield control and letting them defend friendly squishy targets or themselves.
The other bugs like GWM, damage riders, and incorrect stats are also annoying, and seem like they should be way easier to fix so it's weird they're still not. Like the Opportunity Attack is probably a casualty of AI turn optimisation - calculating their movement as a whole and executing, making interrupting it difficult - but getting basic damage calcs right shouldn't be as big an issue as it seems to be.
Pact of blade PAM doesn’t use CHA in my game, had to download a mod to fix PAM because yeah doesn’t apply any damage riders or trigger hex eitber, very sad am hoping it gets fuxed
Does anyone know if the new Durge endings will be retroactive to previous saves, or will it require a whole new start to reach them?
I was about to start a Durge run but I'll hold off if I'd have to redo it anyway for the new ending.
If they work anything like the epilogue you’ll have to load a save from before you get in the boat for the last mission. Just conjecture though, I have no idea if that’s what they’ll do.
Given how Hasbro and Wizards of the Coast seem to be, by all accounts, absolute nightmares to work with, this isn’t really a surprise at all. Honestly I’m glad they’re going to be more able to do their own stuff, since they’ve clearly shown in the past that they can do great work with original IPs.
Reminds me of the developer Harebrained Schemes. Found success and acclaimed with adapting the Shadowrun and Battletech IPs into great games. Fans were clamoring for more and throwing money at every DLC. Instead, they decided they want to focus on their own IP to keep 100% of the profit and left fans devastated.
Anyways, their "super cool" original IP game tanked, Harebrained Schemes barely exists as a developer anymore, and nothing has come along to fill the void they left behind.
Larian had already made one of the best games of all time in Divinity Original Sin 2 several years before they released BG3. They’re not going anywhere lol
Arcane Tricksters on full copium hoping this is the patch where their Mage Hand gets fixed.
I'm on copium that elixirs will not restock on honor mode meaning there will be a limited supply, and that some limitations on ranged slashing flourish is included on honour mode. I don't really expect these changes. But damn would I love them just so these topics aren't the default answer to nearly every question on the sub. Polearm master bonus action attack though...
Why not limit merchant inventory restocks entirely? Infinite scrolls arguably invalidates more of the class balance than infinite elixirs does. Every merchant having a set, non-randomized inventory sounds like a decent addition to honor mode's difficulty.
This is senseless. People who want to impose that limitation on themselves already can. You're not asking for this to be implemented, you're asking for it to be forced on only everyone who doesn't want it, because the people who do want it ALREADY have it.
I agree, for example, im currently about to finish a tactician run (still havent tried honor but whatever) where im not using any tadpoles nor speed potions or cloud giant strength elixirs... I have the gauntlets from house of hope but havent changed my ability scores (I dumped dexterity on this character and could have used new numbers to improve initiative) You can always impose handicaps on yourself. Besides there are so many more things that need to be addressed raather than that. You want to cheese elixirs? Cool, that's on you, what is the percentage of players actually doing it? I bet it is a rather small number
You can apply your comment to literally any request for balancing. “People who want to impose that limitation on themselves already can [never pick Swords Bard].” Restrictions and nerfs can be a good thing for player experience and game balance, even if it seems like it’s “forced”.
Well if you want to play swords bard but hate that it's overpowered, then your only options are to either use it or not, but with elixirs and scrolls etc, you can have them, in a non-overpowered way by limiting yourself, that example is a different case.
Ngl you got a really desperate sounding tone here that does this opinion no favors. Might want to learn how to not crutch on scrolls and potions lol
Set inventory per merchant would kinda slap. It'd create whole new interesting routing puzzles, especially if there just isn't enough gold in the economy to get all the best in slot items. I mean, they'd also have the nerf the fuck out of robbing merchants for that to work, but if we're gonna dream.
I really don't like being incentivized to pick up and sell everything. I think that is a bad game mechanic.
Honestly I'd also couple it with a lot of trash loot being treated as trash. If anything it incentivises you to pick up less, because there's no reason to loot gremlin every random piece of shit in the early-mid game. I do that in games I DM - like there's no way Aron or Dammon would want the shitty Goblin weapons that look barely held together. Or that an apothecary would buy 5 suits of Full Plate.
Same I just ignoring looting. I'm not gonna carry tons of trash weapons and armor and crap like gems. If I need money, I'll find an isolated merchant and rob them for a while. I can't be bothered to hoard pointless loot.
I'm hoping the elixir restock goes away too. It's still easy enough to keep 1 or 2 characters constantly juiced on Strength Elixirs without vendor exploits, but a limited supply per playthrough at least creates an incentive to be efficient. Ranged Slashing Flourish should just use the targeting system of Twinned Cast instead of the targeting system of Eldritch Blast like it does now.
Why not add limited long rests while you are at if this is truly a path you want to go down. If anything is limiting consequences for the builds people run it is the fact that 95% of the time you are free to long rest even when it makes no sense even in the games narrative. In fact the amount of elixirs would not matter on a vendor if you had a set amount of long rests per act or quest before you failed and got gameover.
The rests thing I am just more forgiving on. It is hard to translate resting in tabletop to a video game, but it is also an important mechanic. Every d20 TTRPG game struggles with it. Solasta is the best at it and does what you say, but with that comes a very linear story which would take away from BG3. But how do you limit long rests? You can only rest after doing X thing, after doing Y thing, and after doing Z thing? That type of rule would promote people to follow walkthroughs rather than play the game naturally. A limited number of rests per act? That could work but then peoples' playthroughs may get soft locked. Limiting resting is just a huge gameplay shift, it's a complicated subject to start with, and it is a complicated thing to adjust. Especially when it comes to the fact that story is delivered through rests. I rest so rarely that when I do rest I have to do so 5 or 6 times back-to-back in order to just catch up on story events. Elixirs are different. There is nothing about elixirs that are difficult to translate from tabletop to BG3. Add it to random loot tables and/or let vendors sell limited quantities of them. Fine. No problems there. The issue (a far greater issue in my opinion than something like warlock extra attack stacking that Larian did fix) is people abusing vendor restock mechanics to get an unlimited number of eloxirs. Make it so vendors don't refresh elixirs. End of story. Being able to get an unlimited number of Str elixirs so that a character that dumps Str is a better Str character than another that invests in Str is just not how any of this should work. It isn't a "build." It's an exploit.
Yea and atm people are abusing long rests on builds/classes that clearly rely solely on spell slot spam. I personally fail to see how that is any different from using elixirs. As for limiting long rests it is very simple have the story progress while you go to sleep like it would in the real world. For example you can have the ritual complete after you long rest 1 time at the grove in act 1. If you long rest 3 times the goblins get level 10 reinforcements from the big absolute army we actually never get to fight. Like not a few but a lot of them. Then you can have the consequences get worse in act 2 and act 3 like if you take to many long rests in act 2 Ketheric forces take over the whole overworld with insane numbers and after certain amount of long rests you just get the gameover screen because the absolute won. Same goes for act 3 they even add tons of quakes in the act but somehow you can basically rest forever before confronting the Neitherbrain. This dose not even make any sense at all. They also have Orin kidnap people if you do not rescue them after 1 long rest she kill the one she has and takes another. This way you can run out of companions since she will eventually take the hirelings as well. Also once either side with Gortash/kill him and Kill Orin it forces the final battle. As for guides really? people are already on Reddit/Youtube looking for builds to beat the game already not sure how "natural" that is when people figure out how to gear/play and level your characters for you. Also all of the above are examples of how to limit long rests within the story itself and it makes sense as well.
Look, I agree that the rest system is not ideal. 100%. Strong agree. It would be great if resting had a bigger impact on BG3's world and since of urgency. You will struggle to find a person who believes this more strongly than me. I hate long resting. I tend to rest maybe 3 times per act, meaning that when I do rest I have to do it back-to-back-to-back 5 or 6 times just to see all the camp scenes. All I am saying is that the solutions you are proposing are more complex and fix a completely separate topic than the Str elixir issues. And any "fix" to the resting issues will cause other issues. Whereas just limiting the supply of elixirs on honour mode only is seemingly a fix for an overpowered exploit that honour mode was meant to address. I'd love to see both get changed. But one is a hell of a lot easier than the other to do. There is a difference between a build guide saying take X levels in this class, then Y levels in that class, grab this feat and that feat, these are the best races, here are your starting ability scores, and some good weapons/armor for Act 1 is A, for Act 2 is B, and for Act 3 is C. As compared to one of the long rest systems I have seen genuinely proposed where people say, "Once you get to Act 2 you get to long rest. Once you get to Last Light you get a long rest. Once you get to Moonrise you get a long rest..." Because that system will promote a feeling of planning out your route through the game to make sure you don't unlock two long rests back-to-back. Planning your route every step through the game to make sure you get max efficiency from rests is different from even the most detailed build guide that may give instructions to find specific magic items but otherwise do not tell you exactly where to go and when to go there. You have not proposed the above resting restrictions in this conversation. I want to make that clear again. But the one you do propose would lead to the same type of results. People would feel obligated to look up guides thinking, "Well I don't want to 'fail' parts of the game, therefore I am going to see what causes the world to progress in what ways and do things in that order." And this is a very different thing from the most detailed build guides. Maybe some guide for a sorc character includes a recommendation for Markoheshkir. So the build guide may say to go get the Birthright hat at the store and go to Lorroakan's Tower to get the staff. But they don't say, "You need to do A and B and C before your first long rest, you need to finish D before you take 3 long rests, once you set foot in E then it causes F to activate after one long rest so make sure you resolve that..." This system would absolutely lead to a pressure to make sure you play the game in a specific order so that you can see everything and get your desired ending, rather than the way you want to play. A build guide is not at all as handholdy. Edit: going back to your original comment, you said, "If this is the path [I] really want to go down." You are setting up a slippery slope fallacy. I am putting the breaks on this sled. My wishes are almost certainly unlikely to be fulfilled, but they are tempered and you are the one bringing rests into this. Yes, a sorc being able to long rest between each fight for unlimited sorcery points is an issue. But I think Larian intended for rests to work the way they do. I do not believe Larian intended for elixirs to be exploited like this, and fixing it on honour mode would make character build discussions more interesting.
What makes you say that elixirs were not intended anymore than long rests were? Ethel at the grove always 100% refreshes with 3 str elixirs in fact the most common elixir found on any given vendor at least in my 300+ hours of play in this game is the 21 str elixirs the 27 indeed are pretty rare so are the mats to craft them with. If you look at something else like bloodlust these are insanely rare elixirs I even checked due to me not using them at all in my last run I had barely managed to get 1 stack aka 20 bloodlust elixirs. We are looking at a run were 3 people in my run were running str elixirs my last one was running Vigilance. But even besides long rests and elixirs you got other things like the fact you can buff Aid/longstrider/warding bond etc without the need to have those classes/people in your party as well. The amount of health offered by aid or even the benefits of something like Heroes' Feast which is hp + immensities+ wisdom sav advantages. Also since you did address the elephant in the room and mentioned sorcs I am just gone go say it all the casters apart from a EB lock remain viable either by farming potions(assume this is as bad or worse than elixirs for you) in act 2 or spamming long rests. The amount of fights you can be a part of as a caster and do meaningful damage is not many if you can not actually use your spell slots to deal damage. It is not just down sorcery points here I got a sorc in my current run and using a cantrip feels so bad. You talk about people running elixirs builds if people were limited on rests they would not think sorcs were the best class in the game like they do atm. Even with the ability to restore spells slots wizards would not be far behind either, I am gone be frank I am bored of hearing swords bard over and over and over and over again even if you gutted rests even if you gutted elixirs I am 100% sure this would still be the lord and savoir of everything,
I am limiting my entire response to this comment with two things I have already said.... twice. >What makes you say that elixirs were not intended anymore than long rests were? Ethel at the grove always 100% refreshes with 3 str elixirs in fact the most common elixir found on any given vendor at least in my 300+ hours of play in this game is the 21 str elixirs the 27 indeed are pretty rare so are the mats to craft them with. 1. If it is possible for a character that dumps Str to be a better Str build than a character that invests in Str, that is poor design or an exploit. 2. Again. The elixir "fix" is easy. Just turn off vendor refresh of them on honor mode. I have never used an elixir besides once when I needed fire resistance to get some loot from a corpse in Grymforge. I wouldn't give a damn if they removed all elixirs from the game period. Str and bloodlust and vigilance and heroism elixirs (stacks with bless) are all really strong. But I am not asking Larian to do that. I am hoping Larian will address the issue of Str elixirs because people make them a required part of builds and I am fucking tired of it. The other elixirs may be gamebreaking. Bloodlust especially. But they are powerful buffs and not a build cornerstone where your character falls apart or needs to be rebuilt from the ground up. without them. Yes, the game has other balance issues. I complain about them constantly to the point that I am about to stop modding the sub. Because I am tired of talking about them. Elixirs, tavern brawler, slashing flourish, arcane acuity, Duergar invisibility, casting multiple leveled spells in a turn, bloodlust elixirs, potions of speed, haste still letting you cast spells, camp casting, wet + lightning, busted weapons like Markoheshkir, abjuration wizard...I am tired of all of it and a quick use of the search function with "Phantomsplit" and any of the keywords above or many other keywords will result in finding many complaints by me. Even without using OP mechanics the game is still frustratingly easy. But Str elixir cheese is chief among my complaints because of how it steers discussion on this sub and should be an easy thing to fix. The game has many balance issues. I am talking about elixirs and slashing flourish in this post. That is it. I'd love to see other things you mention get fixed. I am already on a goddamn pipe dream to hope elixirs get fixed and you keep trying to throw me down a fucking slippery slope fallacy, pulling random bullshit out your ass and chucking it at me. "Just fix camp casting." Larian has been toning down camp casting for several patches. They tried to tone down transmutation wizard camp casting last patch and instead made it stronger. Many of the things you are mentioning are more difficult problems to address. In this post all I am addressing is elixirs cheese ans slashing flourish. Have a good day.
Make stores only refresh on new party XP threshold (not respec'd character level) or on story mission completion.
It still baffles me that "Slashing" Flourish, a sword technique, somehow can be applied to ranged weapons which don't even slash. Even if it was limited to only melee, it would still be an amazingly strong skill.
Slashing flourish isn’t such a big game breaker. They should change honor Ode to a d20 initiative and not a d4. That would make a big difference
Not mutually exclusive.
I would love if they fixed arcane trickster. Mine is ready for Act III
With mod support, you don't need it. Anything is possible to fix!
can you explain whats wrong with mage hand?
The tooltip for mage hand legerdemain reads “your mage hand can stow away or retrieve objects carried by other creatures and use Thieves' Tools at range.” Oh wait but it can’t. Filthy lying tooltip, ought to cut out its tongue.
So that was a fucking lie
Cross-play and photo-mode in the works! Lets go!
My copium is that they fix potion throwing. - No more killing with bottle - No more breaking on random grounds - No more simply lying on the juice without soaking it
Nah I disagree with your first point. It makes sense. Just imagine karlach throwing a potion at mach one in your face
Why in the world are so many people wanting the already slim inventory of vendors to become non replenishing? That just seems like a weird request
Collateral damage of wanting there to be a limit on the number of Strength Elixirs available. It obviously causes a lot of secondary problems if you just set inventory to never replenish, but the people who are asking are pretty much just focused on the one pair of items.
Hm, thinking those people should just choose not to buy them instead of all the people who enjoy having plentiful supplies having to lose it. Just weird they are requesting it as a fix, when it doesn't really sound like anything that needs fixing
It doesn't need fixing and they could just not use them. My personal perspective is that any "set your stat to..." item is bad design because it undermines character builds that actually work for those stats - at least if it sets them equal to or higher than you could get on your own. However, that is completely irrelevant for this game's design. This game assumes you will have them and is based around it. Plus it's fun for some. I could see the argument that they break Honor Mode, but, even then, lots of things do. It's an oversimplified suggestion that would shift the game towards one subset's personal taste. I even consider myself in that group, but I wouldn't suggest the core game change. I'd suggest getting a mod.
Yeah I kinda agree there. Having a strength based build where you dump strength kinda pisses me off
Me too. It’s been hard to find discourse on monk/barb/EK etc builds that doesn’t just boil down to “dump strength and chug.” To me that’s kinda boring, I want to feel like my character is powerful on his own merit and not just because I remembered to drink my morning elixir. In the words of Tony Stark… “if you’re nothing without the suit then you shouldn’t have it.” Thats kind of how I feel about elixir farming, to each their own though.
Yes, exactly! And idk, having to chug potions every day, and keeping stocked up is super annoying. The gauntlets of hill giant strength are kinda acceptable tho. Considering the stats aren't really canon, you can kinda just ignore it if you're dumping strength and using those, but I can't feel that way for elixers
There’s nothing wrong with using str boosting *equipment* at all imo, in BG2 it wasn’t uncommon for most party members to be wearing a str belt or gloves or Crom Faeyr etc in the endgame. It’s even okay to build your character with the assumption that you’ll fill in your stats with those items later on. But those are permanent item effects that don’t require you to go outside of the normal gameplay loop to acquire or use them, and back in those days you couldn’t re-spec to tank your strength the moment you got them. The idea of running a build that gets weaker the moment his head hits the pillow just doesn’t sit right with me. To me, doesn’t matter how easy the elixirs are to farm when relying on them just so your build can function is so immersion breaking.
Honestly even with like the hill giant gauntlets it mentioned, it kinda pisses me off that I'm not ACTUALLY strong, but like it's minor and ignorable enough to where I can just ignore it, unlike with the potions where it really just is that you're fucking juicing
I can agree with that sentiment, though I generally tend to give a pass to (most) OP bonuses from items, the game has so many pieces of gear that are much more broken than str gloves anyways. But most importantly cool items are fun. Roid smoothies, not as much.
I wouldn't suggest a mod for this at all. I'd suggest mods for things that are more difficult to avoid, like for example nerfing abjuration wizard if you want to. Abjuration wizard is my favorite tabletop Wizard subclass that made it into the game, but I will never use it without mods because its features are too strong in BG3. The only reason I want vendors changed is so that builds I find interesting (e.g. builds which don't rely on abusing respeccing a mercenary and leveling them up one level at a time while stealing/buying elixirs) will be more commonly discussed and renew my interest in this community. The game assuming you will have some elixirs I can agree with. Maybe just before a boss fight you pop a cloud giant elixir and bring your Str from 22 to 27. It seems a bit of a stretch for the game to assume you have unlimited elixirs so you can dump Str to 8, use an elixir to have 27 Str, and turn those ASIs and character creation ability scores invested in Str into feats or ability scores in other areas. With unlimited Str elixirs it is possible to have higher Str than a Str build, and more feats/other stats than a Str build. If cheesing the economy like this to invalidate strength as a stat to invest in is "intended" then that is a bit of a yikes from me.
Why not just make it an option rather than a fix?
Again, my interest is niche. That is why I know this is copium and don't actually expect Larian to actually make this change. It already is an option. Either you exploit vendor refresh mechanics to get unlimited elixirs or you do not. If it is an option then it will not change the discussion in this sub, and that is the only reason I care about this. I already play by the "option" of not using them. But my interest in the subreddit I created is practically non existent because of exploits like this. If it is changed on honor mode for everyone then discussion on this sub for everyone will adjust as well. Just like it did with DRS, Bladelock extra attack stacking, and the partial "fix" of haste on honour mode. Being able to dump Str yet be permanently better as a Str character than a character that actually builds around Str is not a build. It is an exploit. It's not my playstyle. It's not what I want to read about. It is difficult to find motivation to write and share other builds knowing just how much elixir builds can outshine them.
>Being able to dump Str yet be permanently better as a Str character than a character that actually builds around Str is not a build. It is an exploit. As someone who loves to optimise but still wants to role-play, I can't stand the idea of utilising a feat that doubles attack and damage based on Str... and not having any native Str. I'm running a native Str TB monk, and having to balance the MAD to get decent initiative, AC, movespeed, and Wis modifier is half the fun of it. Extends to stat dumping in general. And the wizard 1 dip. The 10/1/1 SB I'm running uses native dex and is probably going to dip Light Cleric instead. And not using scrolls. So I'm running a 12 Storm Sorc instead of 10/2 since I want to be able to cast CL natively. But I'm chuckling at myself going through the trouble of doing this since the core components of each of the above builds; TB, arcane acuity and metamagic; are already so powerful that they break the game's difficulty without exploits >If it is changed on honor mode for everyone then discussion on this sub for everyone will adjust as well. I agree, imposing constraints that encourage build diversity would only enrich the game. On my first playthrough, I ran a berserker/thief with GWM, using ET to chuck throwing weapons from my inventory and also throw enemies at each other. It was so much goddamn fun, and it felt like how a Berserker is intended to be played. Then I discovered that I could do way more damage, with almost guaranteed accuracy, with a thrown dagger compared to my two hander. Converted to a full thrower build, completely trivialised Act 3 and almost died of boredom.
They're *trying* to limit it for other people. They want to make it harder in the way they like because then some people won't be able to do it, and that let's them feel superior to those people.
No. I don't give a shit if people use elixirs or not. I don't use them, don't care at all if others do. But I am only interested in builds that don't use them. And elixirs are so exploitable they take up a lot of discussion space meaning there are less people talking about builds I do enjoy. I made this very clear in my original comment. I am only asking for this to be fixed in Honour mode where there is a presumed extra challenge like this, and I stated that the reason why is so that this mechanic does not answer so many questions that it is boring to even come to the sub
I am also the type who does not like to use str elixirs unless it makes sense from like an rp perspective, but ngl wanting in game changes so that reddit content changes is kind of a wild perspective. Not trying to hate or anything, I get where you’re coming from, but I think altering the experience for literally millions of players so that the discussion on bg3builds improves is kind of insane. That said, there is nothing preventing people from advocating builds that eon’t abuse certain game mechanics. I have seen discussion of that sort a pretty good amount on this sub. Why not create a different flair or something for builds that don’t “exploit” so one can just look for those sorts of posts? I haven’t posted any builds, but I intend to in due course, and basically everything I use never touches haste, giant elixirs, shadow blades, etc. I’d love to see those builds fall into a different category, personally.
>Why not create a different flair or something for builds that don’t “exploit” so one can just look for those sorts of posts? I actually got started on this in Patch 4. I polled the community on what exploits they would or would not like to restrict from posts that follow a more strict ruleset. Then 2 things happened. First, the poll results showed that there were some things a large portion of this community was still ok with like DRS. I try not to be a dictator reddit mod who lets the imaginary power go to their head, but there was no way any balanced forms of gameplay can be expected when abusing a mechanic that allows characters to do thousands of damage per turn. And second honour mode came out with Patch 5. I was kinda waiting to see if Larian would tune more things like Duergar invisibility, elixir spam, slashing flourish spam, arcane acuity, tavern brawler, haste letting you cast spells, etc. But patch 6 came and went with no further restrictions, and I don't think they once mentioned anything about balance in this community update.. I know it is a pipedream to want Larian to change stuff just to make build discussions interesting again. I know it isn't going to happen. But they made honor mode and restricted OP mechanics for a reason. Honestly, elixir spam is more powerful than warlock extra attack stacking. Being able to cast a spell with haste is more powerful than warlock extra attack stacking. It really didn't seem like too much of a pipedream for them to at least whack some of the worst offenders. And discussion on this subreddit would benefit (in my opinion) as a result.
I have no idea how to do it, but one hopeful thing is that mod support is coming. Im with you, I don’t like cheesy stuff. I’m hopeful for an honor mode + mod that nerfs a lot of the OP stuff in the game. I bet that’ll come soon after the mod tools start getting released. If so, you should plaster it all over the sub and make a flair for that when it happens. Aside from that, I guess it would just need to be like a community driven thing. I dunno, I’d love to brainstorm a little more on this and come up with some real suggestions, because I really do get where you’re coming from and its generally how I play the game too
Oh wow, lol. I didn't even consider that. It's not even like it's some big PVP game. Wanting to take fun stuff away from many others so they can look down their nose at the 'peasants'? Oy how stupid.
They are making a strawman argument. What they are arguing is not what was claimed. I do not like elixirs, don't give a damn if others use them or not. But I made this sub because I am *that* interested in character builds. Elixirs are a skeleton key that answers so many questions on a game that is so easy that it makes me bored of the sub, and there is a very good chance I step down as mod after this patch because I lost interest a long time ago.
There's zero reason to want this. You can already impose a limitation on yourself. Literally nothing is gained. It is actually impossible for this to affect your play throughs if you want it, because you can already just do it. Asking for the limitation isn't about your play throughs, it's about trying to force other people into your personal limitations.
As I said in another comment, the change would satisfy only a subset of the community and punish the rest. It is too subjective of a change. Even for honor mode, it would only affect some builds. It wouldn't magically make the game balanced unless it was part of a huge overhaul that would result in a completely different game. Leave that to modding your personal game.
Because they want to feel superior to other people.
People need to watch Swen's GDC talk about DOS2 from years ago now, when people in the end ask questions, and one of them was about balance. Paraphrasing, but they go about "is it intended by us?", "is it fun?", and then go about "balance". Fun is subjective ofc, but that's why making a good game is really hard. Basically, it is a classic response of not ending up "balancing the fun out of the game" (which is usually applied to a players who try to do this). Making non-replenished inventories, limiting certain items for vendors to the set number per run (in any act/and each act), or whatever other rules doesn't sound like "fun", that only hardcore few would enjoy even on Honour Mode. People also misunderstand intended interaction for an exploit. If it is within the rules, and as intended, and only select few figured out (which is kind of true), it isn't an exploit. Again, going back to GDC talk years ago, you know what people called exploit? Being able to switch to the character that isn't in the conversation and pickpocket NPC who is in the conversation with your companion. And the answer was, again paraphrasing, "congrats, you've figured out stuff, no, it is intended, by design, it isn't an exploit". (this question was followed up with "balance question") I'm a bit biased towards gamedev here, although ofc not picking "sides". But, it is more of FYI about "balancing", "exploits" and so on, because right now people ask something that contradicts devs of the game design philosophy.
Mod tools is so huge
aye this is soo cool - how long are these patch releases and announcements? im new to this
Fix ALL of Polearm Master. It still has like 3 bugs / non-functioning features (depending on viewpoint I guess?), maybe 4? Also a merchant overhaul as a whole, make it less abusable. I'm fine with that being pure Honour too. Limit Scrolls severely to reign in the Cleric / Sorc multis, limit Elixirs severely, no restocks of general items every level up, etc. Fix Slashing Flourish. Fix Arcane Trickster (or just stop it lying). Make Minthara a playable Origin (New Beginnings, right...? Right guys?). All pure copium but I dream big. EDIT: Also an epilogue for controlling the brain where Withers just straight shit talks you for 5 minutes. You know, cause "Evil Endings".
Minthara origin doesn’t make sense. Halsin isn’t an origin character and you’re introduced to both at around the same time
> Also a merchant overhaul as a whole, make it less abusable. I'm fine with that being pure Honour too. Limit Scrolls severely to reign in the Cleric / Sorc multis, limit Elixirs severely, no restocks of general items every level up, etc. Or, and hear me out, you just don't use them if you don't want to. It's like you have a problem overeating doritos so you think the fix is a worldwide ban on Doritos. Control. Yourself. Not. Others. Why some of you people think things need to be changed because you can't limit yourself to just not do something is crazy. I'm glad people that think this way aren't making this game
Because single player games get balanced and patched all the time, idk why this is some kind of point of contention. There's a reason why Honor Mode doesn't have all the insane damage rider stuff and the Warlock extra attack bug. If there's a spell that does 1000 undodgeable damage, it's bad design to keep it in the game and just go "WELL JUST DON'T USE IT!" It warps the game design around it.
I dont think its unreasonable at all that the mode designed to be the most unforgiving removes and/or fixes mechanics that are very forgiving. Honor mode already features plenty of changes that reduce the amount you can exploit the game, so clearly Larian is alright with doing so, so why stop with half measures?
Everyone coping for unrestricted vendors brings out these desperate-sounding aggressive responses. Lol, L2P without strength pots and git gud
Not being able to use certain mechanics because it's poorly designed sucks, some people want to use all the systems in the game and have it not crumble in half because of how strong they end up getting, honor mode is the perfect place to put these changes. Having to just not use throwing builds or TB for example sucks, some people want to play those builds but not stomp the game, do they just not matter? You have an entirely separate mode if you want to cheese the mechanics, just play that and let people enjoy a properly balanced honor mode.
> (New Beginnings, right...? Right guys?). they literally meant 2 new games they also specifically separate origin and companions in the text, Minthara was never intended as origin and, according to them, doesn't work as origin, and Adam Smith who wrote her basically said that you might as well whole new game if Minthara would be an origin (thought it was a buils sub, what this Minthara nonsense is doing here)
Thanks for the tldr
Oh that's not a tldr, it's my copium powered wishlist. I didn't read the post because I saw this on my lunchbreak at work.
Oh damn
I'm curious, what are the bugs/problems with polearm master? I used it on my last run and it seemed to work correctly, or at least I thought so.
The big one is that the bonus action attack doesn't apply damage riders like GWM or extra damage dice. I also thought that if you used Charisma for your attack as a Hexblade, then the BA attack still used Strength or Dex - but I could be wrong about this one. Also, the opportunity attack triggers late, so enemies get slightly within the max range of your polearm before getting hit. This matters if you take sentinel (reduce an enemies movement to 0 when you hit them with an opportunity atttack), as it means they still get close enough to attack you.
The Opportunity Attack triggering late is the biggest one for me. That's like its key use in the tabletop - giving martials a measure of battlefield control and letting them defend friendly squishy targets or themselves. The other bugs like GWM, damage riders, and incorrect stats are also annoying, and seem like they should be way easier to fix so it's weird they're still not. Like the Opportunity Attack is probably a casualty of AI turn optimisation - calculating their movement as a whole and executing, making interrupting it difficult - but getting basic damage calcs right shouldn't be as big an issue as it seems to be.
Pact of blade PAM doesn’t use CHA in my game, had to download a mod to fix PAM because yeah doesn’t apply any damage riders or trigger hex eitber, very sad am hoping it gets fuxed
Does anyone know if the new Durge endings will be retroactive to previous saves, or will it require a whole new start to reach them? I was about to start a Durge run but I'll hold off if I'd have to redo it anyway for the new ending.
If they work anything like the epilogue you’ll have to load a save from before you get in the boat for the last mission. Just conjecture though, I have no idea if that’s what they’ll do.
Muh battle wizard gloves
Helmet of arcane acuity is too ugly, I need those gloves to work.
My copium is they fix the no free lunches trophy not being awarded on defeating myrkle without him consuming any necromites
Am I the only one hoping they fix Defensive Dualist...?
Glad durge gets an actual ending now instead of “In BaAls NamE (and then everyone clapped)”
it’s a mistake for larian to abandon the IP
Given how Hasbro and Wizards of the Coast seem to be, by all accounts, absolute nightmares to work with, this isn’t really a surprise at all. Honestly I’m glad they’re going to be more able to do their own stuff, since they’ve clearly shown in the past that they can do great work with original IPs.
Totally agree with you.
Reminds me of the developer Harebrained Schemes. Found success and acclaimed with adapting the Shadowrun and Battletech IPs into great games. Fans were clamoring for more and throwing money at every DLC. Instead, they decided they want to focus on their own IP to keep 100% of the profit and left fans devastated. Anyways, their "super cool" original IP game tanked, Harebrained Schemes barely exists as a developer anymore, and nothing has come along to fill the void they left behind.
Larian had already made one of the best games of all time in Divinity Original Sin 2 several years before they released BG3. They’re not going anywhere lol
So cool dude