My ex has been in therapy for 5+ years and it seems like it's made it worse the way she weaponizes therapy language and relies on autism to describe all her behaviors.
Ohhh, the bastardizing of terminology 🤦🏼♀️🤦🏼♀️🤦🏼♀️
Our marriage counselor is a Gottman master level PhD, and I’m pretty sure for the rest of my life if someone says “You’re stonewalling” to me it will immediately send me into a trauma response. How do they weaponize healthy terminology??
I never encountered that one but that sounds rough. I don't expect to encounter these terms but mine are reduced/ conflicting capacities, centering feelings, feeling seen, showing up in connection, needs, anything related to attachment theory.
Oh, yours are all vague enough to easily be used out of context. That must be rough to deal with!
Did you find that if ever you identified specific behaviors in your pwBPD, they would mysteriously start using the same concept to hurl accusations at you during the next argument? This was the *most impressive*, and also the most infuriating form of gaslighting for me.
I didn't point out much of anything, I was the one psychoanalyzed and attacked with concepts. Towards the end of our relationship she told me bringing up issues I had in relation to ones she brought up was a form of pathological demand avoidance called equalizing.
I am all too familiar with equalizing(I identified PDA in my husband and kids before I learned that he was hiding his *actual* diagnosis of BPD). It’s brutal to experience.
I think the worst is when they accuse you of the behavior that, subjectively, only *they* are doing. After 4 years of therapy (mostly marriage counseling), I think the only thing about him that truly improved was using his new-found therapy terminology to falsely accuse me of all the toxic things that he was doing to me. It’s wild how they so sincerely believe their own lies
Literally my ex - except she’s been in therapy since her early teens (she’s 50) and is a trauma therapist herself. Apparently a therapist asked her about 5 years ago if she had ever considered that she may have autism and since then that is the only diagnosis she identifies with and blames all of her textbook BPD behaviors on autism (she checks 9/9 DSM criteria). If any of those behaviors are criticized in any capacity then you are “ableist.” Worse still - she’s currently on a professional mission to convince her peers that most PDs are actually due to autism or ADHD. She just gave a 4 hour lecture at a highly respected trauma conference on this and the positive feedback from attendees on her social media (yes I know - huge mistake looking at it) made me physically ill.
Look - I think there’s a huge amount of overlap and comorbidity b/t neurodivergence and PDs - and I believe DBT and learning emotional regulation techniques is beneficial for everyone! So if an autism diagnosis is what gets someone to seek out those resources then awesome! But I also feel that PDs (especially Cluster B) have unique challenges that benefit from being specifically named rather than lumping them in with the challenges inherent to neurodivergence. I say this as an MD with ADHD who has multiple autistic and ADHD family members. Yes there is overlap but what I have experienced clinically and now relationally with individuals with Cluster B traits crystallizes the very real differences.
Anyway, sorry for the monologue - it’s the ADHD hyperfocus showing up!
Mine would lie in the two couples counseling sessions we tried which made everything so much worse. If I wasn't carrying a big resent before those, I'd certainly tripled the resent by the time we'd left the first where she rated me a 4 out of 10 on the relationship satisfaction scale. Nothing made me want to lash out more than that very number after I'd worked tirelessly for her and her family for 4 years of my trying to elevate her shitty outlook on life near daily! She'd probably have killed herself if it wasn't for me and the surgeries where I nursed her back when her entire family barely even checked on her during the months following. I'm rewarded with a 4 when the day before she'd had me up on the highest pedestal and said she's going to couples counseling to make me content with her saying she didn't need me to change a thing.. She was happy but afraid I'd see she was broken and leave her. Such a freaking liar to everyone including herself. In the last 35 days of NC, her messages on VM begged me to come back or talk to her then went on to threatening me with false accusations to apologies to blame shifting then recanting and back to love bombing. She's a complete lunatic and beyond repair. No amount of therapy can help someone who does NOT have the capacity to be honest with themselves or others.
This is why I don't think therapy works. I don't think it did for me either. I returned to my faith and now no longer qualify for the diagnosis, just a few traits left.
Good for you in trying to heal the “right way” though. Sometimes the counseling has quietly done the hard work, and laid the groundwork for healing, but sometimes it just wasn’t *quite* what that person needed. The specific *type* of counseling makes a huge difference, as well.
At least you finally got to a much healthier place! I wish you well. Thank you for sharing your story
Thank you. I don't think counseling did much for me. But through God, I immediately started seeing where I was wrong. As the Bible says "the way of the wicked is like deep darkness, they do not know what makes them stumble ". God helped me see my stumbling blocks. From there scripture truths further taught me where I was wrong. Forgiveness of my family that hurt me was crucial in helping me improve. Then forgiving others. Confessing my own sins instead of justifying bad behavior. Understanding that I'm valuable as a human being, but that God never justifies hatred, retaliation, grudges and power trips. I'd do all that before and then play the victim when everything fell apart. Dbt therapy does not instill a sense of worth by a creator, nor does it teach unconditional forgiveness like the Bible. That's crucial because I believe the core of bpd is a gigantic grudge against the abusers and the world itself after trauma. This still won't work for too many bpd, good luck trying to get them to admit fault or being evil. It rarely happens and without repentance you aren't in relationship with Jesus.
Your words bring me great comfort, as someone who was both raised by a pwBPD, then dating & married to one for the last 7.5 years. I personally hold no stake in *how* someone finds their way to a healthy relationship with accountability, and ultimately healthy thinking and behavior, I’m just truly glad to hear that some people do.
I believe that admitting how you have been doing wrong, and recognizing that you have agency over your own life, are the most importantly parts to healing from BPD. I don’t think one course suits everyone, and for some, I can definitely understand how your own individual relationship with God could impact that journey quite profoundly.
I’m very happy for you, and I thank you for sharing 😊
I got saved when I was 12 and went to church for a couple years, had very supernatural encounters with the holy spirit at my church. I was a good kid with excellent grades. Buy my abusive adoptive parents didn't like it, said I was fanatic. Didn't like I wanted to move in with the Christian family down the street because then they'd lose a monthly $$$. Took me out of church, the church people I knew dud nothing to help after that unfortunately. That's when I started sinking mentally and emotionally. As you know, bpd are usually not born that way. I was pregnant by 17, lots of bad choices. By 26 I had 3 boys alone, 2 with severe autism. I buckled under the stress, nervous breakdown, gave up custody. This is the moment my bpd became full blown. Escorting for many years and I kept up a good appearance. Covid destroyed the business for me, found I couldn't keep a job, had to live with roommates. Got into a relationship with a quiet bpd man and that brought me to my lowest point emotionally, mentally and financially. Hospitalized in 2021. Tried therapy, nada. I remembered God and my experiences with Him and knew He was my last hope before I ended up dead or homeless, or homeless then dead because I couldn't handle any type of life problems. So I finally went back to Jesus and He didn't disappoint. I was worried at first because my improvements seemed too good to be true, but 21 months I'm I'm still improving. I had a hiccup recently at a really stressful, toxic walmart deli job in which I even fantasized about throwing hot oil on a coworker. But I took time off, prayed about it, it went away and I worked a bit longer there before moving on. The difference is instead of feeding those crazy thoughts and justifying it, making them bigger, now they don't last at all and aren't as frequent. Plus it takes high stress to even see it
You seem very self-aware. Are able to self reflect and I hope you continue to do the work, work on forgiving yourself and others and emerging stronger than ever. If you have a chance to be the mother your kids deserve. I hope you reunite and are a rock and source for happiness for them. I wish you the best.
It has to be the right form. My ex was in therapy for two extended periods while we were together. I’ve written about both here before, but to summarize: the first actively made things worse, and the second helped but neither lasted long enough nor was structured the right way to make lasting change. She also did an intensive mindfulness course for 10 weeks. Mindfulness is a key part of DBT (the only therapy which works for BPD) but hers did not help because it wasn’t targeted the right way. Instead, it heightened her awareness of her discomfort and made her feel justified in the thought patterns.
“It has to be the right form” can’t be understated.
I recently found out that someone with BPD, who’s isn’t in a structured program specially *for* the BPD, will have significant worsening of BPD symptoms if they begin trauma focused therapy.
Looking back, my husband was working through his trauma, including doing EMDR therapy, at around the same time that our relationship got *really* ugly. From that point forward, it just continued to devolve. I suspect that the trauma being processed played a large part in that.
That was my experience as well. Like a lot of us, I went through a period where I thought I might be the one with a PD. I begged my therapist to tell me if I was so we could target my program. “If you were, what we’ve been doing wouldn’t be working.”
Since about my mid to late 20s I have found it easiest to say that my mom is “narcissistic, but I don’t know where she lands on the spectrum”. That was the fastest and most succinct way to explain my childhood in a single sentence. It wasn’t until I separated from my husband 6-7 weeks ago that I dug more heavily into researching BPD, and very quickly realized that, while my mom definitely falls *somewhere* on the Narcissistic spectrum, she unequivocally meets criteria for BPD. My older (ASD) brother was Dx’d with Schizoid Personality Disorder about 15 years ago, as well. So, when you say that many of us have suspected that *we* may actually “be the one” with a PD, I felt that on a deep, deep level.
For most of my adult life I have routinely done self-awareness and reality checks, proactively get “touch-ups” in therapy if I haven’t been back in over a year, and surround myself with whole-hearted, brutally honest people, just to make sure that I am firmly rooted in the *shared reality* that the “healthy people” believe in. There is a low-level paranoia in me because I come from a distinctly PD filled life history.
You can’t fix anyone, whether it’s BPD or something else. No one can. They have to do that. You can help, you can support, you can suggest things, but nothing will work unless they want it to happen, are actively putting in time & effort, and doing it in the right way.
no you cant fix her, not your job. you can support her. you can love her. in a real way. not the love show we think it is in the beginning. and if that is where your love is coming from then she is better off with you. it has got to be like a deep down, she is going to wreck you, and you dgaf kind of love. absolutely unreal to conceive i know. get out.
The hardest pill to swallow was that I could not help them. I believe I truly got to know them because I spent a lot of time with her family and her kids and did not notice any looks of why is she acting differently etc.. and she did have the same outbursts of anger and devaluation with her family members in front of me as she had with me. I work in the healing arts and help people every day get better and most of them do with some assistance. The tragedy of this disease is that it is not only incurable but the vast majority of sufferers do not get better even with help. I did not have any objective exposure to people with Cluster B disorders and I just thought this was a traumatized person who was dealt a tough hand in life much like I was in a way. It frustrates me that even though I poured my heart, body, and soul into this person with the hope of getting the person that I saw glimpses of come out consistently only to fail. Now looking back I realize that it was narcissistic of me to presume that I had such power.
I remember being lifted out of depression during the idealization phase, only to be cast into a deeper pit of despair shortly after the courtship of gullibility sailed.
Being bombarded with what I wrongly interpreted as "youthful exuberance" seemed refreshing, especially in today's increasingly dehumanized society. Irony was trying to light a Merit Ultra Light in an Asian monsoon with the realization that idealization was nothing more than dehumanization under the guise of appreciation.
I can't get over the fact that our accounts of our pw-BPD behaviors are so strikingly similar. The original post was exactly what I thought I was doing and how I felt. Despite knowing she had BPD I tried my ass off to be loving caring supportive only to be destroyed emotionally by news of all the cheating. I'm disgusted by her but still feel so sad she's onto the next guy already and will likely experience all the same things over in life but nothing I can do but hurt from afar. No consolation no best friend because I've kept no contact 35 days out. Wish we'd never met but what will perplexes me is the question.. do they go online and do the exact same things to others "knowing" they're going to use manipulative tactics like love bombing, I'd gaslighting, darvo throughout the duration of the relationship? That's how I understood it and then it makes things that much sadder because I believed she had the capacity to, at the very least, cause no harm to others. Makes her no different than a con knowing that she has BPD and never made it past 2 appointments in therapy with 3 different people. Radical acceptance
This was a great explanation and exactly how I felt about her. I went through all of this, but the lovebombing, sex bombing , and idealization was like nothing I had ever experienced before. She literally complimented and admired everything about me and everything I did. Which felt really good because I was in a depression. I was still hurting from a previous relationship, and my dad passing away. She made me feel like the most important person in the world. I thought she was obsessed with me, so I was shocked when the abuse, devaluation, cheating, and discard happened. I could not make sense of it. She told me things like "I love you more than anyone", "You're my world and I couldn't live without you" "Your the only man I have eyes for" "Your so sweet, kind, handsome, smart, sexy, funny, good in bed,. I love your voice, your eyes, your smile, the way you dress etc. etc.. The sex was so passionate and very frequent with her always going above and beyond to please me. She also mirrored so well that it seemed like we had everything in common. This is why I think it makes it especially hard to get over them. Everything you used to enjoy now reminds you of them because they adopted all your interests and hobbies. Great post. Just wanted to add my 2 cents.
this post comes from my own journal, thank you for sharing.
The healing road I’m on now is the acceptance that the person who loved me intently and was so uplifting and sexual and connected to my core never actually existed. During idealization she provided the inverse of all my deepest fears and shortcomings, making me feel as if I’d found a soul mate, but when splitting she was a mirror of those same things and ground me into dust with emotional abuse, gaslighting, and cheating.
I have compassion for her as an abandoned child, it’s not her fault. but as an adult she bears the responsibility to see her actions and the wake of destruction and pain in her path and do the work to be better. She won’t.
I was a willing participant in this toxic cycle because of my own codependency and unhealed trauma, and I DO take accountability and responsibility to change and be better. I was never going to be able to save her, but I can save myself from the horror of living like this ever again.
So well written and it's a reflection of my own personal story and many others here. Much love and thanks man. It's what I needed to let go for tonight. The universe has a way of showing it's intelligence or, at least that's the perspective I've had to adopt to get to this 36th day of no contact despite dozens of attempts by her to reach me. I'm so done with the headspace I'm in and with the ex whose heart was just cold and dead.
Proud of you, 36 days is incredible! I made it to four and backslid so am right back to day 1 but committed to not entering the cycle again. Need to process all the things I want to say without her on the receiving end, she’s never heard me before why would it be different the 5,000th time. She’s doesn’t want to get better she just wants me back to regulate and absorb all her hurt and pain.
*Whole Again* is a wonderful book and has been so helpful to reframe and focus inward rather than outward. Highly recommend.
Much thanks 🙏 you're right, no matter how many times we'd say anything, they just need to keep or change their own narrative to fit the victim. I just recieved the book "Whole Again" yesterday, but haven't had the chance to open it yet. It's on my list of things to read this evening.
[https://www.quora.com/Why-are-people-with-BPD-so-hard-to-get-over-I-am-still-stuck-on-my-ex-half-a-year-later](https://www.quora.com/Why-are-people-with-BPD-so-hard-to-get-over-I-am-still-stuck-on-my-ex-half-a-year-later)
I got the post from here! The guy's name is Robert and it seems like he has a bunch of other posts on his profile about understanding BPD. Truly amazing stuff!
The longer you stay with them the longer their healing becomes delayed, and assuming you're not already wounded, you definitely become wounded.
Having a relationship with an outside person is literally the pathology that perpetuates the illness. The healing begins when with the help of a trained therapist, they turn inwards and build a healthy relationship with themselves.
You're welcome. And also, don't assume that keeping your distance will begin their healing. If they a) don't do the work and/or b) jump into another relationship(which often happens) ....their healing continues to be delayed. You just gotta work on yourself and keep moving forward.
This is such an accurate description. It gives hope, knowing that this is such a widespread experience for so many. I'm a little over 3 months out of a 4-year relationship with a woman who suffered from BPD. This description basically nails the timeline of the relationship, all the way up to the point of increasingly becoming more empathetic for her suffering and childhood traumas, encouraging treatment, and giving my absolute all. I did this with the best I had to offer at those moments, not perfect, but an honest effort, while trying to value myself, set boundaries, and hold her to them. It was such a battle and required so much energy and discipline to not just give in to treatments that simply weren't okay.
About a month prior to the final breakup and contact, there was a boundary that was crossed, and I upheld my values on it. I kept my distance, and about a week later, she came around apologizing. I said the only way that the relationship could ever work and get better is if she started therapy, to which I would join her on that journey, go to sessions when necessary, and make any changes that I needed to as well. Because I truly did love her, I still do. She agreed to go. A month passed, and there were no attempts at starting therapy, to which I had already allowed her back in, and we reconnected as usual. One of the things that I am struggling with today the most is that lack of connection. Because in the moment, it truly felt like we were the only two people on earth. It's unlike any other intimate connection that I've ever had emotionally and sexually, which feels like heaven for an anxious attachment like myself.
The following month, I lost a close family member, which I compartmentalized for that day as it was a special occasion for her. She was very understanding in the moment, but towards the end of the evening, my inability to focus on her due to the loss started to reveal itself, and everything went sideways. Verbal abuses and rage were displayed. And in that moment, I said, "I'm never doing this again." I cut off contact, dropped things off at her door that were at the house, and she started with the suicidal threats. I did respond to those and tried to help from afar. About a month later, I received emails that were so self-righteous on her part, blaming me for every aspect of the failed relationship and her behaviors. Every part of my character was torn to shreds nearly in these emails. I couldn't believe what I was reading. Like, surely this isn't what she thinks or truly feels?! I had given my all to her and her children. Many parts of the relationship that I held dear were minimized and criticized as if they were meaningless. It only stirred up all the pain from this relationship and breakup, leaving me questioning myself, my efforts, and whether it was all my fault. Am I the one to blame?
I'm sorry about the long-winded response. Emotions are still very strong and deep for me at this moment. I do my best to function through the days I'm supposed to. Thank God for the days that I'm not overly focused on it and I feel sensitive relief. But there is absolutely no closure from that other person. So learning how to make that for yourself and return to a place of peace is what I'm currently working on. After writing this, I was thinking about how I said that I still loved her. I want to recant that. What I loved was the feeling of the connection in the best moments, which felt so secure and freeing. It felt impossible for that to never not be a thing or simply dissolve so easily.
Yes that's the exact way I've felt. The connection on that deep level and some optimism that it appeared as if we were syncing again but weary of when the other shoe would drop... Feeling a sense of apprehension throughout the day... And then it did drop. Again and again. She's split and that made me decide that I'm splitting from this place of fear as well.. For the last time. I was done. You're not alone. It's more damaging to us the longer we stay and the longer we make concessions.
Thank you 🙏 for this response. It does give some solace knowing that so many other’s experiences are so similar. It’s still more often than not a daily struggle though. The utter disregard and feeling absolutely thrown away, is a hard acceptance. But each day the “addiction” of that person or love subsides. I just have to take those moments with some gratitude, and thank God that I’m healing ❤️🩹 And it’s ok to grieve this loss as a death. This person was apart of my daily life for 4yrs, so the neurological connections that were formed with that person in them, are having to remap so to speak. A lot of friends or family don’t really understands the feeling of all this . They chalk it up to a toxic relationship and you’re better off without them “so move on”. But it’s not that simple, nor do I want it to be. As painful as it is to grieve , I feel like I should be feeling that way as the love and the connection was real and authentic to me. And I think that’s important torecognize in ourselves. That a lot of us really did give our all, to care, support, and show authentic love for partners with BPD. And I can say for myself this wasn’t for nothing because it did take effort and growth on my part do those things for the relationship. But I deserve better for myself and the feeling of actually holding my breath , for the good positive times is no way to live.
You're most certainly correct.. It's not easy but it's easier than being with them. I was with my ex-pwBPD for about 4 years as well with one major hoover at about year 2 when I'd left and went no contact for a month. During that time, my ex made so many accusations and threats. In fact, the first time she'd met one of my family members, she showed up late one night in her vehicle and saw us walking out of the house where she began yelling that she'd be sending her what I believed was an ex husband and father of her kids to come deal with me after alleging I'd hurt her and her daughter who was 13 at the time. I was completely shocked to hear it and went right off of her yelling right back that she was a lunatic and she could send her jailbird ex over any time. It was so embarrassing but what was more shameful to me was going back after she'd stabilized and was admitted to hospital. She apologized profusely in writing and even wrote a letter to the family member. Fast forward to a month ago and the way she split was no different. It's very alarming and a complete Jekyll and Hyde. Wish I could have got the last 2 years back had I known there was never going to be any therapy (she even said to me days before I'd left for final time that there was nothing wrong with her personality). She grew brazen and I knew from this sub that I was back into devaluation mode and from the way she was behaving, the new supply was ready to move in as soon as I got out. Part of me wants revenge but I know that it wouldn't help me maintain this spiritual condition I'm feeling. I've made some good strides since because I'm now focused on myself and healing. I keep telling myself although my feelings were real, she wasn't because she has a serious mental disorder that had very little chance of being resolved even with rigorous therapy. It didn't help that she was lazy by default and it's no surprise when she could never make it past 2 sessions with 3 different therapists. There was always an excuse until the mask came off permanently. We'll heal eventually, but they're stuck to live with the torment having to parasitically attach to a supply in order to regulate their dis-ease. No thanks I'm glad I'm out and I'm glad you're out!
I can completely relate to you and your experience, it’s pretty profound how similar our experiences are. For that my heart goes out to you in this time of healing ❤️🩹 along with the days of confusion and questioning yourself. But it sounds like you’re on the right track of focus on self and the awareness all this has boughten.
Can't tell you how bad I needed to read that. I just found this community last night as I've been recovering from my exwBPD. I'm in a new healthy relationship and it is still destroying me and destroying my current relationship because I tried to let her back into my life under the guise of being just "friends". I've never felt so broken by someone before and I'm wondering how I'm ever going to heal from this trauma.
Yes, this is how it is.. I met my BPD where I had not dated for several years after a bad relationship and when I was dealing with some fairly serous medical issues. I felt so loved and protected , like someone finally saw the real me. The high of everyone seeing how good he treated me - people pointed to us and said “relationship goals”.
This is absolutely true. I think that if I had not previously been in a long-term relationship with an addict (there are similarities with the big one being “I can’t cure this,”) I think I would have probably tried to tough mine out a lot longer rather than call her out when it became clear there were problems and leave when it became clear she was going to ride the excuse train rather than work on herself.
Finding out the lies was just nails in a coffin that I’d already rolled out.
This explained it so perfectly. This is exactly what happened. I can’t fix her… can I?
No. She needs to seek help herself.
Fun fact: my pwBPD has been in counseling for most of his life, often by his own volition. Sometimes their own desire for help isn’t even enough
My ex has been in therapy for 5+ years and it seems like it's made it worse the way she weaponizes therapy language and relies on autism to describe all her behaviors.
Ohhh, the bastardizing of terminology 🤦🏼♀️🤦🏼♀️🤦🏼♀️ Our marriage counselor is a Gottman master level PhD, and I’m pretty sure for the rest of my life if someone says “You’re stonewalling” to me it will immediately send me into a trauma response. How do they weaponize healthy terminology??
I never encountered that one but that sounds rough. I don't expect to encounter these terms but mine are reduced/ conflicting capacities, centering feelings, feeling seen, showing up in connection, needs, anything related to attachment theory.
Oh, yours are all vague enough to easily be used out of context. That must be rough to deal with! Did you find that if ever you identified specific behaviors in your pwBPD, they would mysteriously start using the same concept to hurl accusations at you during the next argument? This was the *most impressive*, and also the most infuriating form of gaslighting for me.
I didn't point out much of anything, I was the one psychoanalyzed and attacked with concepts. Towards the end of our relationship she told me bringing up issues I had in relation to ones she brought up was a form of pathological demand avoidance called equalizing.
I am all too familiar with equalizing(I identified PDA in my husband and kids before I learned that he was hiding his *actual* diagnosis of BPD). It’s brutal to experience. I think the worst is when they accuse you of the behavior that, subjectively, only *they* are doing. After 4 years of therapy (mostly marriage counseling), I think the only thing about him that truly improved was using his new-found therapy terminology to falsely accuse me of all the toxic things that he was doing to me. It’s wild how they so sincerely believe their own lies
Literally my ex - except she’s been in therapy since her early teens (she’s 50) and is a trauma therapist herself. Apparently a therapist asked her about 5 years ago if she had ever considered that she may have autism and since then that is the only diagnosis she identifies with and blames all of her textbook BPD behaviors on autism (she checks 9/9 DSM criteria). If any of those behaviors are criticized in any capacity then you are “ableist.” Worse still - she’s currently on a professional mission to convince her peers that most PDs are actually due to autism or ADHD. She just gave a 4 hour lecture at a highly respected trauma conference on this and the positive feedback from attendees on her social media (yes I know - huge mistake looking at it) made me physically ill. Look - I think there’s a huge amount of overlap and comorbidity b/t neurodivergence and PDs - and I believe DBT and learning emotional regulation techniques is beneficial for everyone! So if an autism diagnosis is what gets someone to seek out those resources then awesome! But I also feel that PDs (especially Cluster B) have unique challenges that benefit from being specifically named rather than lumping them in with the challenges inherent to neurodivergence. I say this as an MD with ADHD who has multiple autistic and ADHD family members. Yes there is overlap but what I have experienced clinically and now relationally with individuals with Cluster B traits crystallizes the very real differences. Anyway, sorry for the monologue - it’s the ADHD hyperfocus showing up!
Mine would lie in the two couples counseling sessions we tried which made everything so much worse. If I wasn't carrying a big resent before those, I'd certainly tripled the resent by the time we'd left the first where she rated me a 4 out of 10 on the relationship satisfaction scale. Nothing made me want to lash out more than that very number after I'd worked tirelessly for her and her family for 4 years of my trying to elevate her shitty outlook on life near daily! She'd probably have killed herself if it wasn't for me and the surgeries where I nursed her back when her entire family barely even checked on her during the months following. I'm rewarded with a 4 when the day before she'd had me up on the highest pedestal and said she's going to couples counseling to make me content with her saying she didn't need me to change a thing.. She was happy but afraid I'd see she was broken and leave her. Such a freaking liar to everyone including herself. In the last 35 days of NC, her messages on VM begged me to come back or talk to her then went on to threatening me with false accusations to apologies to blame shifting then recanting and back to love bombing. She's a complete lunatic and beyond repair. No amount of therapy can help someone who does NOT have the capacity to be honest with themselves or others.
Hard pill to swallow but true Some are in therapy for 10 years and theres little help
This is why I don't think therapy works. I don't think it did for me either. I returned to my faith and now no longer qualify for the diagnosis, just a few traits left.
Good for you in trying to heal the “right way” though. Sometimes the counseling has quietly done the hard work, and laid the groundwork for healing, but sometimes it just wasn’t *quite* what that person needed. The specific *type* of counseling makes a huge difference, as well. At least you finally got to a much healthier place! I wish you well. Thank you for sharing your story
Thank you. I don't think counseling did much for me. But through God, I immediately started seeing where I was wrong. As the Bible says "the way of the wicked is like deep darkness, they do not know what makes them stumble ". God helped me see my stumbling blocks. From there scripture truths further taught me where I was wrong. Forgiveness of my family that hurt me was crucial in helping me improve. Then forgiving others. Confessing my own sins instead of justifying bad behavior. Understanding that I'm valuable as a human being, but that God never justifies hatred, retaliation, grudges and power trips. I'd do all that before and then play the victim when everything fell apart. Dbt therapy does not instill a sense of worth by a creator, nor does it teach unconditional forgiveness like the Bible. That's crucial because I believe the core of bpd is a gigantic grudge against the abusers and the world itself after trauma. This still won't work for too many bpd, good luck trying to get them to admit fault or being evil. It rarely happens and without repentance you aren't in relationship with Jesus.
Your words bring me great comfort, as someone who was both raised by a pwBPD, then dating & married to one for the last 7.5 years. I personally hold no stake in *how* someone finds their way to a healthy relationship with accountability, and ultimately healthy thinking and behavior, I’m just truly glad to hear that some people do. I believe that admitting how you have been doing wrong, and recognizing that you have agency over your own life, are the most importantly parts to healing from BPD. I don’t think one course suits everyone, and for some, I can definitely understand how your own individual relationship with God could impact that journey quite profoundly. I’m very happy for you, and I thank you for sharing 😊
was it the light vs dark that spoke to you?
I got saved when I was 12 and went to church for a couple years, had very supernatural encounters with the holy spirit at my church. I was a good kid with excellent grades. Buy my abusive adoptive parents didn't like it, said I was fanatic. Didn't like I wanted to move in with the Christian family down the street because then they'd lose a monthly $$$. Took me out of church, the church people I knew dud nothing to help after that unfortunately. That's when I started sinking mentally and emotionally. As you know, bpd are usually not born that way. I was pregnant by 17, lots of bad choices. By 26 I had 3 boys alone, 2 with severe autism. I buckled under the stress, nervous breakdown, gave up custody. This is the moment my bpd became full blown. Escorting for many years and I kept up a good appearance. Covid destroyed the business for me, found I couldn't keep a job, had to live with roommates. Got into a relationship with a quiet bpd man and that brought me to my lowest point emotionally, mentally and financially. Hospitalized in 2021. Tried therapy, nada. I remembered God and my experiences with Him and knew He was my last hope before I ended up dead or homeless, or homeless then dead because I couldn't handle any type of life problems. So I finally went back to Jesus and He didn't disappoint. I was worried at first because my improvements seemed too good to be true, but 21 months I'm I'm still improving. I had a hiccup recently at a really stressful, toxic walmart deli job in which I even fantasized about throwing hot oil on a coworker. But I took time off, prayed about it, it went away and I worked a bit longer there before moving on. The difference is instead of feeding those crazy thoughts and justifying it, making them bigger, now they don't last at all and aren't as frequent. Plus it takes high stress to even see it
You seem very self-aware. Are able to self reflect and I hope you continue to do the work, work on forgiving yourself and others and emerging stronger than ever. If you have a chance to be the mother your kids deserve. I hope you reunite and are a rock and source for happiness for them. I wish you the best.
https://youtu.be/3P9YyJ9zPdo?si=nPvqok_0OYVnvjvV
It has to be the right form. My ex was in therapy for two extended periods while we were together. I’ve written about both here before, but to summarize: the first actively made things worse, and the second helped but neither lasted long enough nor was structured the right way to make lasting change. She also did an intensive mindfulness course for 10 weeks. Mindfulness is a key part of DBT (the only therapy which works for BPD) but hers did not help because it wasn’t targeted the right way. Instead, it heightened her awareness of her discomfort and made her feel justified in the thought patterns.
“It has to be the right form” can’t be understated. I recently found out that someone with BPD, who’s isn’t in a structured program specially *for* the BPD, will have significant worsening of BPD symptoms if they begin trauma focused therapy. Looking back, my husband was working through his trauma, including doing EMDR therapy, at around the same time that our relationship got *really* ugly. From that point forward, it just continued to devolve. I suspect that the trauma being processed played a large part in that.
That was my experience as well. Like a lot of us, I went through a period where I thought I might be the one with a PD. I begged my therapist to tell me if I was so we could target my program. “If you were, what we’ve been doing wouldn’t be working.”
Since about my mid to late 20s I have found it easiest to say that my mom is “narcissistic, but I don’t know where she lands on the spectrum”. That was the fastest and most succinct way to explain my childhood in a single sentence. It wasn’t until I separated from my husband 6-7 weeks ago that I dug more heavily into researching BPD, and very quickly realized that, while my mom definitely falls *somewhere* on the Narcissistic spectrum, she unequivocally meets criteria for BPD. My older (ASD) brother was Dx’d with Schizoid Personality Disorder about 15 years ago, as well. So, when you say that many of us have suspected that *we* may actually “be the one” with a PD, I felt that on a deep, deep level. For most of my adult life I have routinely done self-awareness and reality checks, proactively get “touch-ups” in therapy if I haven’t been back in over a year, and surround myself with whole-hearted, brutally honest people, just to make sure that I am firmly rooted in the *shared reality* that the “healthy people” believe in. There is a low-level paranoia in me because I come from a distinctly PD filled life history.
You can’t fix anyone, whether it’s BPD or something else. No one can. They have to do that. You can help, you can support, you can suggest things, but nothing will work unless they want it to happen, are actively putting in time & effort, and doing it in the right way.
No one can fix anyone else.
no you cant fix her, not your job. you can support her. you can love her. in a real way. not the love show we think it is in the beginning. and if that is where your love is coming from then she is better off with you. it has got to be like a deep down, she is going to wreck you, and you dgaf kind of love. absolutely unreal to conceive i know. get out.
The hardest pill to swallow was that I could not help them. I believe I truly got to know them because I spent a lot of time with her family and her kids and did not notice any looks of why is she acting differently etc.. and she did have the same outbursts of anger and devaluation with her family members in front of me as she had with me. I work in the healing arts and help people every day get better and most of them do with some assistance. The tragedy of this disease is that it is not only incurable but the vast majority of sufferers do not get better even with help. I did not have any objective exposure to people with Cluster B disorders and I just thought this was a traumatized person who was dealt a tough hand in life much like I was in a way. It frustrates me that even though I poured my heart, body, and soul into this person with the hope of getting the person that I saw glimpses of come out consistently only to fail. Now looking back I realize that it was narcissistic of me to presume that I had such power.
I remember being lifted out of depression during the idealization phase, only to be cast into a deeper pit of despair shortly after the courtship of gullibility sailed. Being bombarded with what I wrongly interpreted as "youthful exuberance" seemed refreshing, especially in today's increasingly dehumanized society. Irony was trying to light a Merit Ultra Light in an Asian monsoon with the realization that idealization was nothing more than dehumanization under the guise of appreciation.
build you up so high that when you come crashing down you break in even smaller pieces.
I can't get over the fact that our accounts of our pw-BPD behaviors are so strikingly similar. The original post was exactly what I thought I was doing and how I felt. Despite knowing she had BPD I tried my ass off to be loving caring supportive only to be destroyed emotionally by news of all the cheating. I'm disgusted by her but still feel so sad she's onto the next guy already and will likely experience all the same things over in life but nothing I can do but hurt from afar. No consolation no best friend because I've kept no contact 35 days out. Wish we'd never met but what will perplexes me is the question.. do they go online and do the exact same things to others "knowing" they're going to use manipulative tactics like love bombing, I'd gaslighting, darvo throughout the duration of the relationship? That's how I understood it and then it makes things that much sadder because I believed she had the capacity to, at the very least, cause no harm to others. Makes her no different than a con knowing that she has BPD and never made it past 2 appointments in therapy with 3 different people. Radical acceptance
This was a great explanation and exactly how I felt about her. I went through all of this, but the lovebombing, sex bombing , and idealization was like nothing I had ever experienced before. She literally complimented and admired everything about me and everything I did. Which felt really good because I was in a depression. I was still hurting from a previous relationship, and my dad passing away. She made me feel like the most important person in the world. I thought she was obsessed with me, so I was shocked when the abuse, devaluation, cheating, and discard happened. I could not make sense of it. She told me things like "I love you more than anyone", "You're my world and I couldn't live without you" "Your the only man I have eyes for" "Your so sweet, kind, handsome, smart, sexy, funny, good in bed,. I love your voice, your eyes, your smile, the way you dress etc. etc.. The sex was so passionate and very frequent with her always going above and beyond to please me. She also mirrored so well that it seemed like we had everything in common. This is why I think it makes it especially hard to get over them. Everything you used to enjoy now reminds you of them because they adopted all your interests and hobbies. Great post. Just wanted to add my 2 cents.
this post comes from my own journal, thank you for sharing. The healing road I’m on now is the acceptance that the person who loved me intently and was so uplifting and sexual and connected to my core never actually existed. During idealization she provided the inverse of all my deepest fears and shortcomings, making me feel as if I’d found a soul mate, but when splitting she was a mirror of those same things and ground me into dust with emotional abuse, gaslighting, and cheating. I have compassion for her as an abandoned child, it’s not her fault. but as an adult she bears the responsibility to see her actions and the wake of destruction and pain in her path and do the work to be better. She won’t. I was a willing participant in this toxic cycle because of my own codependency and unhealed trauma, and I DO take accountability and responsibility to change and be better. I was never going to be able to save her, but I can save myself from the horror of living like this ever again.
So well written and it's a reflection of my own personal story and many others here. Much love and thanks man. It's what I needed to let go for tonight. The universe has a way of showing it's intelligence or, at least that's the perspective I've had to adopt to get to this 36th day of no contact despite dozens of attempts by her to reach me. I'm so done with the headspace I'm in and with the ex whose heart was just cold and dead.
Proud of you, 36 days is incredible! I made it to four and backslid so am right back to day 1 but committed to not entering the cycle again. Need to process all the things I want to say without her on the receiving end, she’s never heard me before why would it be different the 5,000th time. She’s doesn’t want to get better she just wants me back to regulate and absorb all her hurt and pain. *Whole Again* is a wonderful book and has been so helpful to reframe and focus inward rather than outward. Highly recommend.
Much thanks 🙏 you're right, no matter how many times we'd say anything, they just need to keep or change their own narrative to fit the victim. I just recieved the book "Whole Again" yesterday, but haven't had the chance to open it yet. It's on my list of things to read this evening.
This is really the best description of what happened. Really. Can you credit the quora user who wrote this ?
[https://www.quora.com/Why-are-people-with-BPD-so-hard-to-get-over-I-am-still-stuck-on-my-ex-half-a-year-later](https://www.quora.com/Why-are-people-with-BPD-so-hard-to-get-over-I-am-still-stuck-on-my-ex-half-a-year-later) I got the post from here! The guy's name is Robert and it seems like he has a bunch of other posts on his profile about understanding BPD. Truly amazing stuff!
I needed to read this, thanks :'|
The longer you stay with them the longer their healing becomes delayed, and assuming you're not already wounded, you definitely become wounded. Having a relationship with an outside person is literally the pathology that perpetuates the illness. The healing begins when with the help of a trained therapist, they turn inwards and build a healthy relationship with themselves.
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You're welcome. And also, don't assume that keeping your distance will begin their healing. If they a) don't do the work and/or b) jump into another relationship(which often happens) ....their healing continues to be delayed. You just gotta work on yourself and keep moving forward.
Yeah it hurts knowing the best I can do is bow out and not be another enabler
This is such an accurate description. It gives hope, knowing that this is such a widespread experience for so many. I'm a little over 3 months out of a 4-year relationship with a woman who suffered from BPD. This description basically nails the timeline of the relationship, all the way up to the point of increasingly becoming more empathetic for her suffering and childhood traumas, encouraging treatment, and giving my absolute all. I did this with the best I had to offer at those moments, not perfect, but an honest effort, while trying to value myself, set boundaries, and hold her to them. It was such a battle and required so much energy and discipline to not just give in to treatments that simply weren't okay. About a month prior to the final breakup and contact, there was a boundary that was crossed, and I upheld my values on it. I kept my distance, and about a week later, she came around apologizing. I said the only way that the relationship could ever work and get better is if she started therapy, to which I would join her on that journey, go to sessions when necessary, and make any changes that I needed to as well. Because I truly did love her, I still do. She agreed to go. A month passed, and there were no attempts at starting therapy, to which I had already allowed her back in, and we reconnected as usual. One of the things that I am struggling with today the most is that lack of connection. Because in the moment, it truly felt like we were the only two people on earth. It's unlike any other intimate connection that I've ever had emotionally and sexually, which feels like heaven for an anxious attachment like myself. The following month, I lost a close family member, which I compartmentalized for that day as it was a special occasion for her. She was very understanding in the moment, but towards the end of the evening, my inability to focus on her due to the loss started to reveal itself, and everything went sideways. Verbal abuses and rage were displayed. And in that moment, I said, "I'm never doing this again." I cut off contact, dropped things off at her door that were at the house, and she started with the suicidal threats. I did respond to those and tried to help from afar. About a month later, I received emails that were so self-righteous on her part, blaming me for every aspect of the failed relationship and her behaviors. Every part of my character was torn to shreds nearly in these emails. I couldn't believe what I was reading. Like, surely this isn't what she thinks or truly feels?! I had given my all to her and her children. Many parts of the relationship that I held dear were minimized and criticized as if they were meaningless. It only stirred up all the pain from this relationship and breakup, leaving me questioning myself, my efforts, and whether it was all my fault. Am I the one to blame? I'm sorry about the long-winded response. Emotions are still very strong and deep for me at this moment. I do my best to function through the days I'm supposed to. Thank God for the days that I'm not overly focused on it and I feel sensitive relief. But there is absolutely no closure from that other person. So learning how to make that for yourself and return to a place of peace is what I'm currently working on. After writing this, I was thinking about how I said that I still loved her. I want to recant that. What I loved was the feeling of the connection in the best moments, which felt so secure and freeing. It felt impossible for that to never not be a thing or simply dissolve so easily.
Yes that's the exact way I've felt. The connection on that deep level and some optimism that it appeared as if we were syncing again but weary of when the other shoe would drop... Feeling a sense of apprehension throughout the day... And then it did drop. Again and again. She's split and that made me decide that I'm splitting from this place of fear as well.. For the last time. I was done. You're not alone. It's more damaging to us the longer we stay and the longer we make concessions.
Thank you 🙏 for this response. It does give some solace knowing that so many other’s experiences are so similar. It’s still more often than not a daily struggle though. The utter disregard and feeling absolutely thrown away, is a hard acceptance. But each day the “addiction” of that person or love subsides. I just have to take those moments with some gratitude, and thank God that I’m healing ❤️🩹 And it’s ok to grieve this loss as a death. This person was apart of my daily life for 4yrs, so the neurological connections that were formed with that person in them, are having to remap so to speak. A lot of friends or family don’t really understands the feeling of all this . They chalk it up to a toxic relationship and you’re better off without them “so move on”. But it’s not that simple, nor do I want it to be. As painful as it is to grieve , I feel like I should be feeling that way as the love and the connection was real and authentic to me. And I think that’s important torecognize in ourselves. That a lot of us really did give our all, to care, support, and show authentic love for partners with BPD. And I can say for myself this wasn’t for nothing because it did take effort and growth on my part do those things for the relationship. But I deserve better for myself and the feeling of actually holding my breath , for the good positive times is no way to live.
You're most certainly correct.. It's not easy but it's easier than being with them. I was with my ex-pwBPD for about 4 years as well with one major hoover at about year 2 when I'd left and went no contact for a month. During that time, my ex made so many accusations and threats. In fact, the first time she'd met one of my family members, she showed up late one night in her vehicle and saw us walking out of the house where she began yelling that she'd be sending her what I believed was an ex husband and father of her kids to come deal with me after alleging I'd hurt her and her daughter who was 13 at the time. I was completely shocked to hear it and went right off of her yelling right back that she was a lunatic and she could send her jailbird ex over any time. It was so embarrassing but what was more shameful to me was going back after she'd stabilized and was admitted to hospital. She apologized profusely in writing and even wrote a letter to the family member. Fast forward to a month ago and the way she split was no different. It's very alarming and a complete Jekyll and Hyde. Wish I could have got the last 2 years back had I known there was never going to be any therapy (she even said to me days before I'd left for final time that there was nothing wrong with her personality). She grew brazen and I knew from this sub that I was back into devaluation mode and from the way she was behaving, the new supply was ready to move in as soon as I got out. Part of me wants revenge but I know that it wouldn't help me maintain this spiritual condition I'm feeling. I've made some good strides since because I'm now focused on myself and healing. I keep telling myself although my feelings were real, she wasn't because she has a serious mental disorder that had very little chance of being resolved even with rigorous therapy. It didn't help that she was lazy by default and it's no surprise when she could never make it past 2 sessions with 3 different therapists. There was always an excuse until the mask came off permanently. We'll heal eventually, but they're stuck to live with the torment having to parasitically attach to a supply in order to regulate their dis-ease. No thanks I'm glad I'm out and I'm glad you're out!
I can completely relate to you and your experience, it’s pretty profound how similar our experiences are. For that my heart goes out to you in this time of healing ❤️🩹 along with the days of confusion and questioning yourself. But it sounds like you’re on the right track of focus on self and the awareness all this has boughten.
Thank you and I wish the same for you in both health and happiness.
Holy shit, this is fucking well written. Thank you for sharing. Seriously.
Can't tell you how bad I needed to read that. I just found this community last night as I've been recovering from my exwBPD. I'm in a new healthy relationship and it is still destroying me and destroying my current relationship because I tried to let her back into my life under the guise of being just "friends". I've never felt so broken by someone before and I'm wondering how I'm ever going to heal from this trauma.
Yes, this is how it is.. I met my BPD where I had not dated for several years after a bad relationship and when I was dealing with some fairly serous medical issues. I felt so loved and protected , like someone finally saw the real me. The high of everyone seeing how good he treated me - people pointed to us and said “relationship goals”.
This was exactly it. Exactly it. This is so validating. Thank you for passing it on.
Good read ✍🏼
It's the ultimate tragedy. You describe it perfectly.
Well put. Someone has been through something bad
This sums up exactly why I’m still here. It’s like I’m clearing myself out of the fog and grieving while he’s still here.
This is absolutely true. I think that if I had not previously been in a long-term relationship with an addict (there are similarities with the big one being “I can’t cure this,”) I think I would have probably tried to tough mine out a lot longer rather than call her out when it became clear there were problems and leave when it became clear she was going to ride the excuse train rather than work on herself. Finding out the lies was just nails in a coffin that I’d already rolled out.
If an ex left you, what would you miss? It's like losing your favourite pen -Patrice O'Neal 😂