Ben never forgave the highbreed. He just gave their species a second chance and instated a leader who would make sure a repeat of the war wouldnt happen
So how is it different from the Highbreed council being pulled back by Reinie? The council are still a bunch of alien nazis that committed atrocities themselves.
I also think something that really makes a difference is the story doesn't desperately ask for your pity by trying to make you understand them nor does it encourage sympathy by making them "very, very sad we swear they're sad guys, look how much they're crying"
Portrayal is key here.
this makes the slightest sense, their mind remains the same even with the DNA change, that's why they had to accept a new leader, because they believed they didn't serve anymore because they weren't purer as they should and not because they wanted to change for the better lol
Yeah but the diamonds used the power of music to not be evil so I think DNA splicing makes more sense, all though this is all fiction and doesn't matter
Actually, the diamonds never sang in the show. Only in the movie after the timeskip in which they demolished the dictatorship
Everyone likes to say SU was lazy about turning villains around with songs but that's like literally not true.
so what you're saying is Ben without their consent mishmashed DNA without any thought of how it could impact the Highbreed, forcibly changed their race/species and thought they'd stop being racist? I mean wouldn't that just lead to highbreed discriminating against each other and just cause race wars? idk it solves the issue but feels like it's only a solution for non highbreed creatures
They arent they stopped being nazis the moment ben changed their DNA thats like turning a white supermacist into a black guy,since his black he cant be a white supermacist which is what ben did.
The dimonds were still racist nazis its just that steven told them"guys stop this nazism" and since he is pink dimond or something they stopped saying racist shit(from what i have seen they %100 are still racist nazis its just they dont do those actions since steven hate that)
I dont think a kid can change the mentality of creatures that raided planetes and lived more than 10.000 years but meh,i dont really care to continue this conversation.
hypothetically speaking, what would happen if White Diamond went back to her old ways?
She would. you cannot stand against her if she doesn't let you. Steven will forever live with the knoweldge that if they go rouge again. NOTHING he can do will stop them.
Hypothetically speaking what would happen if White Diamond went back to her old ways?
'Rose's gem acted on it's own' White Diamond removes it and then Steven's body is a sack of meat.
"Steven became corrupted' they were trying not to hurt him for obvious reasons.
Steven fights them. I listed the examples because Steven’s gem does have the raw power to stop them. At one point in future Steven trains to harness that power.
Are you doing to ignore the fact that Pink Steven, when he formed after White Diamond removed his the gem, literally blocked all of White’s attempt to control him with no effort at all
He isn't more powerful at all his shield is able to defend against there attacks that's all we've scene we haven't seen him dk an attack that could poof or shater them so it really doesn't matter his durability feats
The same way steven and the crystal gems fought her in the first place 🙄
And besides, even if she tried, none of the gems previously under the dictatorship would allow that considering there's an established democracy and chain of command now. Even if she used her powers to control every last gem, which she likely couldn't anyway considering how steven (well pink steven at least) completely shrugged her off, that would be the end of gem society.
What would happen if another highbreed happened? It’s a stupid argument. Either way, it’s made evident that all the gems now live independent and no longer rely or fear the diamonds. They don’t respect them beyond them beyond them being “stronger gems”. They roll their eyes when they’re given orders, they move freely through the palace. Everything you go “but with the highbreed—“ applies here and you’re painfully trying to extrapolate things that were proven contrary already.
It’s lazy.
It's different because he replaced there leader. And removed the reason the whole species was doing what they were doing (because of purity) the diamonds were doing what they were doing for no real reason and there wasn't a change in leadership they remained all powerful
To be fair, the High breed got off pretty easily considering they had killed and enslaved lord knows how many prior to the climax.
I critique SU for the same thing, but both shows are guilty of it.
Those aren't qualities to define if a show is good or not, it depends on the writing to make those specific points actualy good. This is extremely simplified, and the characters are wildly different, and so is the plot that drives those shows
Also, that last topic puts it as if the Diamonds didn't go from major villains to friends in like, 1 or 2 episodes. White Diamond got excused of her crazy stuff in the same scene she almost killed Steven .-.
With that being said, I like both shows, but the comparison isn't the best
For the last topic the diamonds never become friends during the show’s, during all of future Steven very much hates them and so do a lot of the other gems. Sure future could have actually done more to show this but the point is, at first they are only given a second chance because all four are needed to bring a gem back from being shattered or corrupted
Mind you all of this is over a simple poll-
Why can’t both shows be good. It’s not like the poll was to determine which one gets a new series. It legit was just a poll made to interact with fans.
Y’all did the exact same thing with Powerpuff girls. Just accept the fact that not everyone likes Ben 10.
Oh, the winner got to face The Lich, 2nd only to Aku (and maybe Mojo Jojo/Him) in terms of popular Cartoon Network antagonist?
That's like getting pissed at losing a fight to determine who gets their ass kicked by a gorilla
Idk how much I can agree with you there. The Litch is pretty powerful to a human boy, talking dog, and a wad of sentient gum, but vilgax was up against ben with a fucking Omnitrix and put up an amazing fight.
Also I think white diamond would zap that bitch vilgax just saying
I mean that just makes sense though? Seven Universe drew in way more online conversation than ben 10 ever did (better or worse) and White Diamond was an active plot back in 2019.
Meanwhile even in this fandom people will argue Vilgax hasn't been cool since the original series, and that ended in '08.
Spoilers; popularity poles have a recency bias.
Not really. He still hated the diamonds at the end of the series. He never forgave them he just recognized that the immortal super powerful dictators are the only ones who can help him fix the species
>He still hated the diamonds at the end of the series.
no, he just had trauma he didn't actually hate them, and even if he did that doesn't mean he didn't forgive the genocidal dictators
But... He DIDN'T forgive the genocidal dictators. If you don't take into account what the crew of the show said (that he didn't forgive them and is still wary) the context should be enough to, at the very least, allude to his disdain toward them. Steven doesn't hate anybody.
he arguably might dislike them, I would disagree given his whole "we're family" spiel and him willing to spend time with them during the movie (even if he returns back home). He still lets them off the hook/FORGIVES THEM, which is the main problem. Personal dislike doesn't mean you didnt forgive someone
No he doesn’t forgive them. And yes it does cuz why do you still dislike them if you forgave them? I got it in the movie he may have wanted to forgive them but as Future shows he just couldn’t.
he's not holding them accountable for their crimes and he's relatively fine being around them even if he arguably dislikes him...That means he's forgiven them
Yes he did and what is he gonna do? Shattered them? Put them in prison for gems? He already beat them and hates them. He never forgave them and still hates them. Forgivening means what they do or say doesn’t bother you and you can be at ease around them but Steven can’t and unable to so no he hasn’t forgave them.
>what is he gonna do? Shattered them? Put them in prison for gems?
YES! Literally anything other then letting them off the hook and "defeating" them by going "no you". Also clearly we have different meanings of forgiveness, cuz letting them live and not shattering them or locking them away for all eternity with no escape sure seems like forgiving them to me
Why do y’all want Steven to act like the ppl HE IS FIGHTING AGAINST? He doesn’t want to shatter Gems including the Diamonds.
Letting them live without punishment isn’t forgiving that’s mercy not the same thing.
I don’t see why it’s a problem that he did. Steven has tolerated almost every villain he had to go against so why him doing it for the diamonds is any different? He didn’t forget nor forgive them for what they did and didn’t even want to be in their presence. He almost killed White cuz of what she caused him to go through.
ah yes because if my family was killed by fucking space hitler I'd be so fine with a random snot nosed fucking 14 year old going "I forgive you". The diamonds deserve to go to literal hell.
Who was killed by them that was Steven family? His mother staged her own shattering and died giving birth to Steven, his dad is alive, his mothers The Crystal Gems who raised him are alive, so who was family to Steven that was killed by them? And if that pissed y’all off than y’all clearly don’t know Steven. He holds no grudges or doesn’t try to and while he may have said that and probably believed it at first Future and the movie shows he doesn’t truly forgive them just tolerates them.
I agree that the diamonds should be punished, but let me ask you this? Who exactly is going to punish them? Steven? The other gems? The diamonds at the end understand that what they did was wrong and they seem eager to atone but there's no indication that they would be willing to undergo any kind of imprisonment or exile, more so, there isn't anyone who could force them into it.
Did you not watch the movie where he clearly doesn’t like them or the epilogue where he only goes to them for help as a last resort? Also he didn’t forgive them, he just recognized that they’re they only ones who can fix things. They can literally bring gems back from the dead
did you watch the movie where he still spent time with them, he just wanted to go back home? Last resort doesn't mean he dislikes them. He does forgive them "because they're family", and that was stupid. They can heal corrupted gems, not bring back from the dead.
He wasn’t spending time with them he was teaching them how to be better people. When does he forgive them? In future yellow diamond is shows bringing gems back to life and using her powers to make sure they have normal proportions
when did he forgive them? When he spent time with them and talked about loving them and didn't prosecute them for being fucking space hitlers. If you count shattered/cracked gems as dead then yeah you're right
Does a parole officer forgive every criminal they try to rehabilitate? He did prosecute them and their punishment was that they had to step down as the leaders of the gems and had to fix everything they messed up while being leaders. Why wouldn’t you count shattered gems as dead?
1. If you were a parole officer for literal hitler but 100x worse, would you be nice to them and hang out with them? No. Did they step down, because they clearly have control over everything. I mean they can still be fused as shattered gems, so it's more like eternal torture or hell.
He wasn’t hanging out with them. He was teaching them to be better and showing them how they can fix the gem empire. Yeah in future the gems are electing a new leader meaning the diamonds aren’t in power anymore.
Talked about loving them? WTF ARE YOU ON ABOUT? He both couldn't really prosecute them since they are THE most powerful gems and they are also crucial in fixing the corrupted gems. Steven doesn't even like the diamonds, period. Ben also talks to villains, doesn't mean they are buddy buddy now.
during the fight in the original series he was like "oh we're family you guys gotta stop". And? they still killed trillions, Steven not pursuing justice is unthinkable given the previous situations he's been in where he protects those who are weaker than him against a stronger opponent. Steven might dislike the diamonds, but thats debatable and irrelevant, because either way he's forgiven them because they're not being tortured to death in a cell for their trillions of crimes. Ben talks to villains, still doesn't mean he likes them, and I'd argue most of them aren't nearly as bad as the diamonds
He left them in charge of a Galaxy wide empire and didn’t put them through any punishment for the countless planets they’ve destroyed and species they’ve genocided
That’s forgiveness
No he didn't, they were literally stripped of all political power, homeworld was turned into a democracy, and the diamonds were forced to become public servants, using their powers to help fix the wrongs they committed
Hey you know what that’s called Redemption or in other words FORGIVENESS
Maybe he still had a chip on his shoulder but he straight up calls them family
He literally tried to kill white diamond, I think it's safe to say he doesn't actually consider them family and just calls them that to keep the peace, and no, that's not called forgiveness, that's called a punishment.
It’s not a punishment if they’re doing it by choice
Also Steven was in a state of emotional instability which was being further fueled by his pink state not to mention that afterwards the diamonds forgave him And helped him calm down after he snapped and became Stevezilla
Face it dude at the end of the day he made peace with them and even if he hasn’t FULLY forgiven them he’s working towards it you’re whole argument is void
Plus from what you’re arguing Steven sounds like a cold hearted manipulator and general horrible person is that who you think Steven is
No, he did not forgive them! He used them to help restore the corrupted gems since they seem to be a necessary component in the process. I know it's a ben 10 subreddit, but you people seriously either haven't watched the show or just glossed over alot of stuff. In future he even tried to shatter White Diamond. It's like saying Ben just outright forgave Vilgax and the Highbreeds and all their warcrimes. If you have a problem with my last statement, then you should also have a problem with the last statement of the meme unless you haven't even watched the show, which is fine, but don't trash it for no good reason. Both shows are good in different ways.
Except Ben didn’t do it with a fucking comeback. Ben cured the problem that started the whole genocide thing in the first place and then they just left. What reason would he have for chasing after them.
Also chasing after them is objectively not his job considering the setting *has* interstellar police and governments meant to handle these matters. That's a job for the plumbers, especially when Ben is still only seen as temporarily deputized.
Yeah, if anything he cured their problem AND inflicted their worst non-death nightmare on them, because he filled in their messed-up DNA with random DNA from the Omnitrix, so now the “genetically superior” species is filled with “impure” DNA and can never reverse it. That’s GOTTA be weighing heavy on them
Because they committed genocide. You literally just answered your own question. What sense does it make to let them just go away unpunished after something like that ?
I mean the situation's more akin to japan's overhaul after WWII. The change wasn't as drastic as you'd think, only a small handful of figureheads were removed from power.
I definitely think the ending was lacking, and the show was not built to handle the subject of governmental upheaval, but... I mean it's not like genocidal intent hasn't sometimes been met with a slap on the wrist in actual history.
Yeah I don't get why people want them bubbled or shattered. They are too powerful to go down unwillingly, and they are doing everything they can to make amends. Preventing them from doing that would be its own act of villainy.
But I mean theyre still the leaders of their species. for commiting the space holocuast you’d think there’d be some real punishment.
even forgetting all that at least ben had to do something huge to stop the leaders and even then it wasn’t until they witnessed another of their kind that was already corrupted for them to realize and step down.
All Steven did was tell the diamonds to stop being evil and they immediately agreed.
Why is Ben the one to dole out that punishment? He isn't a judge, he cured the disease they were suffering from, from that point its up to the galaxy to deal with them.
They aren’t still the leaders of their species. In future the gems are electing a new leader. The diamonds are just public servants now
That’s not really the argument we’re having here but Steven didn’t just say “stop being evil,” he said “I’m the reincarnation of your dead child and I’m going to show you how to be a better person” and then he worked on that for two years.
You seem to think that just because the movie didn’t show us the whole process that means it didn’t happen. Did you think nothing happened during the time skip?
Ok but the last one: Steven literally did that. He told a one-liner and White Diamond was magically defeated and surrendered.
At least Ben's was a better resolution with a some sense to it.
First: Steven did let the diamonds mostly off the hook. even if he personally didn't forgive them totally, they didn't get arrested or killed or anything. In fact they seem much happier in their new roles than they were before, so if anything he still managed to improve their lives.
Second: if we're gonna blame Ben for the highbreed, lets not forget that the rest of the universe cooled down on them pretty fast too. One even got a job as a bailiff in the galaxy's high court.
this isn't much of a fair comparison given that both shows have VERY different aims. One's a highly marketable action show and the other is much more emotional.
Also ben did more to actually tackle the root cause of the issue instead of just hitting them with a rolled up newspaper and saying to behave.
The highbreed started their genocide because they only had a few generations left before genetic decay killed them too, with them being hybridized they no longer have that deadline, *and* are forced to confront that racial supremacy doesn't work. Oh, *and* the council that headed the genocide itself stepped down to elect a new leader specifically to help their people transition out of their old ways.
Sure, there's a million implications to that ending that aren't explored - splinter groups that are further radicalized because they've been "mutilated" with alien DNA, mass suicides, a fuck ton of internal strife, etc - but there *was* a change to the underlying issue and we can presume those are all being worked on off screen.
Also; Ben got to actually *finish* this plot on time before executive meddling changed the tone, while Steven Universe was constantly on the verge of cancellation and had to struggle for the movie and Future season. Yeah, that's gonna make the end product weaker.
The Diamonds are so powerful that no force in the SU universe could arrest or kill them if they didn't want to surrender.
And what would that accomplish? So what if they're happy in their roles? The important part is that their new roles are actively improving the world. This is the main problem with the irl prison system, focusing on punishment rather than rehabilitation. Punishment for punishment's sake at the detriment of the rest of the universe is inherently selfish.
While the show has an accelerated time frame, any immortal can be around long enough to completely change as a person, even if they are space Hitler. Especially if the core tenet of their beliefs are that they are all-knowing, and thus incapable of wrong-doing. Steven didn't just say "stop being bad", he showed beyond a reasonable doubt that White was undeniably WRONG about something. And if she was wrong about even one thing, what if she was wrong about EVERYTHING? Arresting or killing her would have robbed her of the ability to make this breakthrough and devote the rest of her immortal life to improving the universe.
>no force in the SU universe could arrest or kill them
Wrong, bismuth literally created a weapon that could shatter a diamond. Also yeah the diamonds are immortal, guess what that means at any point they can just go "we're in charge again and no one can stop us, and we'll be doing the same thing again"
Ok im not here to talk about anything SU related cus idk much about it. But I just wanna say that the rest of the universe being chill with the highbreed makes sense. Don't forget that Ben is famous accross the universe and even before alien force ppl would pass around LEGENDS of his actions. There is a very high chance that if an insanely famous and well respected person said something/one was chill, then a large majority of ppl will listen
That is true. And to give credit to Ben, he DID see them denounce their behavior in person and the new leader step up and tell everyone "Hey, let's not be assholes anymore". And it's a kids show so I don't think they went too deep into the trust issues... regardless, I would say both shows have a record of "Hey stop this genocide" "OK"
Ben wasn't buddy buddy with the Highbreeds. Wtf are you smoking? He did the DNA randomizer as a last resort to make a ceasefire, so the Highbreed didn't go extinct and continue the war. Renny is the only Highbreed Ben is friendly with, and that was after going on a dimensional field trip with him.
The poll ignores the fact that the main villains of Alien Force were a highly advanced race acting out of desperation in the face of extinction.
Their methods were cruel and brutal, especially the mind control, but humanity would not have acted any better in their place.
The diamonds, on the other hand, invaded Earth to hunting a traitor and had no issues destroying Earth entirely if not for the interference of the Rogue crystal gems. Imagine being willing to blow up a planet over one guy who had no idea he was the offspring of said traitor.
I'm calling BS on you. Steven and the Crystal Gems got the Diamonds to step down from leadership, and Homeworld is electing new leaders. The Diamonds are public servants undoing their damages and have no political power.
>Forgave the leaders of a genocidal dictatorship
SU did that too. The Great Diamond Authority were waging wars for millions of years and when they found a planet, they wiped out all organic life on it and then used it to produce more of them. But then Steven asked them to be nice and.. they did .\_.
He still hates them and he forced them to step down from power. I get that the ending of was rushed, but even when I first saw it I didn't understand why people thought he forgave them.
BECAUSE THE IMMORTAL SPACE DICTATORS WEREN'T ACTUALLY PUNISHED FOR ANYTHING! they still live in their castle, can still leave whenever, and nothing is stopping them from deciding to go back to their old ways
They were stripped of all institutional power, their former subjects exposed to presumably mass amount of human media, and a functioning democracy instated in their former empires. As seen in The Movie, not even their former Pearls respect them, they've lost all semblance of legitimacy, even if they wanted to return to their old ways, the inhabitants of homeworld won't allow them, and I don't care how strong the diamonds are, they can't stop the combined forces of homeworld, not even White can control that many gems. You don't just come back from a political prat fall that massive.
Except they are able to control that many gems because they've been controlling that many gems, also they're immortal, they have all the time in the universe to rebuild even if it takes a thousand years that's a drop in the bucket of time to an immortal
I was talking about White's mind control, which I highly doubt is limitless and is basically their only hope for any chance at returning to power. Even a single Lapis Lazuli, a prodigy though she was, was capable of giving a diamond a challenge, now imagine an entire planet of gems fighting just three diamonds. Yes, the diamonds are immortal, but so are all gems. They only controlled their empire because they were unopposed, but now Steven has completely ruined their legitimacy as rulers. Their careers are dead.
Mass murderers retained their freedom and their main ships.
Ben 10 didn't exactly forgave DNAliens. He just cured them and then Rainy convinced them to stop genocide. And it's the similar situation - they lost some of their political power but overall retained their freedom of movement.
He still hated the diamonds. Yeah, he couldn't strip them of their freedom of movement, but he did everything he could to ensure they would never threaten anyone ever again, and once he was done with that, he promptly left with no intention of ever returning.
Didn’t also resolve the conflict arc of the Genocidal Hybreed peacefully just like Steven did with Diamonds? I don’t know if I could say he “forgave” the hybrid for their offenses but it was still a nonviolent resolution to the arc. I’m not saying the writing was bad for that. I like both shows but they both tend to depict resolutions to conflicts which shouldn’t be emulated in real life.
He never forgave White Diamond, still actively hates her, and basically pulled the "if you don't stop being a horrible person I'm never talking to you again" card to get her to step down as dictator and let him establish a democracy.
SU isn't hated for the show, but for the fandom. If you weren't online when it first aired you have no idea just how toxic and absurd the fans were and left everyone else with a bad taste regarding it.
Galactic prison make a whole planet a prison for her but no let's forgive the dictator who wiped out planets and killed probably billions of living creatures just for their resources like there are thousands of other planets that don't have life on them and have plenty of resources but no let's go for the ones that have life on them.
Ben didn't forgive any dictator he actually appointed the whole new leader and changed the whole species is DNA so he basically fixed the problem he didn't forgive no dictator he actually overthrew the dictator
Vilgax is at least continent level and at best large planet level white diamond is like City level at least at best Continental because the blast that covered all of the Earth was with the help of two other diamonds and that is the only planetary feat that Steven Universe has I don't count the cluster because it became an entity later on and it isn't going to blow up the Earth and it is not able to move
Virgin Steven Universe: Basically gaslighted the said Empire's leader because he was her grandson, didn't address any of the inhumane actions they did, completely forgets that they are literally space nazis and instead tries to befriend them because "fAmIlY"
Chad Rizz Lord Ben Tennyson: Fought for his planet, worked alongside and even saved one of his enemies military officers, redeemed him and made him saw the error of his xenophobic ideology, saved a dying race alongside the many races of the Universe and broke peace between them.
I’m glad someone else realizes Steven never forgave the Diamonds. I honestly don’t know how people came to that conclusion tbh. He just tolerated them and even that’s being generous. We see in the movie that he doesn’t like them much at all and wants to be away from them as much as possible. Like when the Diamonds were trying to convince him to stay with them and he rushes to get to the Warp Pad in order to leave. In Future we also see that he has intrusive thoughts of slamming White Diamond’s head through a pillar. That wasn’t anyone else’s thoughts but Steven’s.
He couldn’t really shatter them either as that’s not in his character and because shattering them would do nothing but harm considering devoted Diamond followers would start yet another war with the Crystal Gens. A prison also wouldn’t hold them seeing as they’re the most powerful beings in the universe. Pacifying and letting the Diamonds use their abilities to help repair the damage they’ve caused was the only real effective solution.
Still got off better than most other villains, and besides, I would say as far as Ben forgiving the Highbreed, not like the rest of the universe was throwing them that deep under a bus either.
IDK, hard to compare two shows with very different aims anyway.
I guess this is meant to have the answer be steven universe....but your acting like steven universe is treated like a golden child...when it has its share of haters. Granted some of it is from homophobes that can't stand anyone but a cis het couple having the implications of being in a relationship...but its not exactly free of hate
Nah, most of the hate is for its corny fan base that have done some real toxic stuff over the years and liking what's pretty much a glorified shipping show.
Yeah, no. Didn't SU literally did the last part? At least Ben 10 treated those issues better than SU did. And there's a big possibility that the former rulers were persecuted for war crimes. Plus, the Highbreed autocratic regime became somewhat extinct by the time Omniverse comes in, where we see one Atasian worked for the Celestialsapien court in order to redeem themselves.
One is Ben 10, and the other is Steven Universe. You can’t compare them. I mean it’s Ben 10 for gods sake. Who gives a rats ass about Steven Universe when compared to Ben 10? I mean it’s Ben 10
Ben never forgave the highbreed. He just gave their species a second chance and instated a leader who would make sure a repeat of the war wouldnt happen
In Steven Universe the Diamonds gave up their imperial power and Homeworld now has democracy. How is that different?
Because they are still giant Nazis that need constant pull back by Steven, which I mean they are trying which is more than actual Nazis do.
So how is it different from the Highbreed council being pulled back by Reinie? The council are still a bunch of alien nazis that committed atrocities themselves.
Their dna has changed, they can no longer have their previous views on the universe because they aren't "pure" so by their own viewpoint they'd die.
I also think something that really makes a difference is the story doesn't desperately ask for your pity by trying to make you understand them nor does it encourage sympathy by making them "very, very sad we swear they're sad guys, look how much they're crying" Portrayal is key here.
True
Remember the Gray Blob episode of Fairly Odd Parents? Physical appearance alone is not necessarily going to change behavior.
It's didn't. They believed that because they were no longer pure, they should be wiped out as well.
Bro they spliced their dna , dna very much does affect they way you act l, I mean Rath man
this makes the slightest sense, their mind remains the same even with the DNA change, that's why they had to accept a new leader, because they believed they didn't serve anymore because they weren't purer as they should and not because they wanted to change for the better lol
Yeah but the diamonds used the power of music to not be evil so I think DNA splicing makes more sense, all though this is all fiction and doesn't matter
Actually, the diamonds never sang in the show. Only in the movie after the timeskip in which they demolished the dictatorship Everyone likes to say SU was lazy about turning villains around with songs but that's like literally not true.
so what you're saying is Ben without their consent mishmashed DNA without any thought of how it could impact the Highbreed, forcibly changed their race/species and thought they'd stop being racist? I mean wouldn't that just lead to highbreed discriminating against each other and just cause race wars? idk it solves the issue but feels like it's only a solution for non highbreed creatures
They arent they stopped being nazis the moment ben changed their DNA thats like turning a white supermacist into a black guy,since his black he cant be a white supermacist which is what ben did. The dimonds were still racist nazis its just that steven told them"guys stop this nazism" and since he is pink dimond or something they stopped saying racist shit(from what i have seen they %100 are still racist nazis its just they dont do those actions since steven hate that)
He spent over a year coaching them and they were happier that way because it allowed to to be close as a family again.
I dont think a kid can change the mentality of creatures that raided planetes and lived more than 10.000 years but meh,i dont really care to continue this conversation.
hypothetically speaking, what would happen if White Diamond went back to her old ways? She would. you cannot stand against her if she doesn't let you. Steven will forever live with the knoweldge that if they go rouge again. NOTHING he can do will stop them.
Steven is more powerful than all the other diamonds. We’ve seen this twice when Rose’s gem acted on its own and when Steven became corrupted.
Hypothetically speaking what would happen if White Diamond went back to her old ways? 'Rose's gem acted on it's own' White Diamond removes it and then Steven's body is a sack of meat. "Steven became corrupted' they were trying not to hurt him for obvious reasons.
Steven fights them. I listed the examples because Steven’s gem does have the raw power to stop them. At one point in future Steven trains to harness that power.
White Diamond then proceeds to remove the gem. he's also only one gem. White Diamond literally can control every other gem.
the moment white diamond is defeated all controlled gems fall with it, have you at least SEEN the show?
The Gem half of Steven can still put up a fight.
Except Steven
Steven doesn't matter at that point.
Are you doing to ignore the fact that Pink Steven, when he formed after White Diamond removed his the gem, literally blocked all of White’s attempt to control him with no effort at all
Yeah he does. Steven is confirmed Most Powerful Gem
He isn't more powerful at all his shield is able to defend against there attacks that's all we've scene we haven't seen him dk an attack that could poof or shater them so it really doesn't matter his durability feats
Steven isn't more powerful than all the diamonds lol, also he's gonna die at some point
I think you forget how powerful Steven actually is
The same way steven and the crystal gems fought her in the first place 🙄 And besides, even if she tried, none of the gems previously under the dictatorship would allow that considering there's an established democracy and chain of command now. Even if she used her powers to control every last gem, which she likely couldn't anyway considering how steven (well pink steven at least) completely shrugged her off, that would be the end of gem society.
What would happen if another highbreed happened? It’s a stupid argument. Either way, it’s made evident that all the gems now live independent and no longer rely or fear the diamonds. They don’t respect them beyond them beyond them being “stronger gems”. They roll their eyes when they’re given orders, they move freely through the palace. Everything you go “but with the highbreed—“ applies here and you’re painfully trying to extrapolate things that were proven contrary already. It’s lazy.
The difference is Steven universe sucks
It's different because he replaced there leader. And removed the reason the whole species was doing what they were doing (because of purity) the diamonds were doing what they were doing for no real reason and there wasn't a change in leadership they remained all powerful
Ben literally said stop fucking around
To be fair, the High breed got off pretty easily considering they had killed and enslaved lord knows how many prior to the climax. I critique SU for the same thing, but both shows are guilty of it.
plus, there's a difference between not wiping out a species and forgiving the people who would but hey, could be worse, could be the ending of SVTFOE
Those aren't qualities to define if a show is good or not, it depends on the writing to make those specific points actualy good. This is extremely simplified, and the characters are wildly different, and so is the plot that drives those shows Also, that last topic puts it as if the Diamonds didn't go from major villains to friends in like, 1 or 2 episodes. White Diamond got excused of her crazy stuff in the same scene she almost killed Steven .-. With that being said, I like both shows, but the comparison isn't the best
For the last topic the diamonds never become friends during the show’s, during all of future Steven very much hates them and so do a lot of the other gems. Sure future could have actually done more to show this but the point is, at first they are only given a second chance because all four are needed to bring a gem back from being shattered or corrupted
I put SU high up myself if mostly cause I love how it handles a lot of tougher topics, but Steven does have a tendency to be very forgiving.
honestly loved almost all of steven universe, but the ending didn’t really land for me
Honestly both shows failed in its execution. The High and the Diamonds got off way too easily after the death destruction they caused.
Mind you all of this is over a simple poll- Why can’t both shows be good. It’s not like the poll was to determine which one gets a new series. It legit was just a poll made to interact with fans. Y’all did the exact same thing with Powerpuff girls. Just accept the fact that not everyone likes Ben 10.
Wait, is *that* what all this steven universe shit is about here? There was a popularity poll?
It was a villain iconicity poll. White Diamond vs Vilgax. White Diamond won. I don’t agree with it either but I don’t think it’s much to get mad over.
[удалено]
Oh, the winner got to face The Lich, 2nd only to Aku (and maybe Mojo Jojo/Him) in terms of popular Cartoon Network antagonist? That's like getting pissed at losing a fight to determine who gets their ass kicked by a gorilla
Idk how much I can agree with you there. The Litch is pretty powerful to a human boy, talking dog, and a wad of sentient gum, but vilgax was up against ben with a fucking Omnitrix and put up an amazing fight. Also I think white diamond would zap that bitch vilgax just saying
I mean that just makes sense though? Seven Universe drew in way more online conversation than ben 10 ever did (better or worse) and White Diamond was an active plot back in 2019. Meanwhile even in this fandom people will argue Vilgax hasn't been cool since the original series, and that ended in '08. Spoilers; popularity poles have a recency bias.
Exactly. Meanwhile Vilgax has many different versions instead of White
I still like Vilgax, he was boss in And than their we're none episode in my opinion :(
Yup just like the Powerpuff girls one
I love both shows and I think SU gets unnecessary hate.
Same. I hate to see my two favorite shows being put against each other.
"let them fight"
People can't help but put one thing against the other, its what the internet does.
I think the point is that SU hatedom is stupid because Ben 10 did the same thing without being controversial.
Hold on Steven totally did that last thing
More or less, he did. It’s not verbatim, but it’s not far
Not really. He still hated the diamonds at the end of the series. He never forgave them he just recognized that the immortal super powerful dictators are the only ones who can help him fix the species
>He still hated the diamonds at the end of the series. no, he just had trauma he didn't actually hate them, and even if he did that doesn't mean he didn't forgive the genocidal dictators
But... He DIDN'T forgive the genocidal dictators. If you don't take into account what the crew of the show said (that he didn't forgive them and is still wary) the context should be enough to, at the very least, allude to his disdain toward them. Steven doesn't hate anybody.
he arguably might dislike them, I would disagree given his whole "we're family" spiel and him willing to spend time with them during the movie (even if he returns back home). He still lets them off the hook/FORGIVES THEM, which is the main problem. Personal dislike doesn't mean you didnt forgive someone
No he doesn’t forgive them. And yes it does cuz why do you still dislike them if you forgave them? I got it in the movie he may have wanted to forgive them but as Future shows he just couldn’t.
he's not holding them accountable for their crimes and he's relatively fine being around them even if he arguably dislikes him...That means he's forgiven them
Yes he did and what is he gonna do? Shattered them? Put them in prison for gems? He already beat them and hates them. He never forgave them and still hates them. Forgivening means what they do or say doesn’t bother you and you can be at ease around them but Steven can’t and unable to so no he hasn’t forgave them.
>what is he gonna do? Shattered them? Put them in prison for gems? YES! Literally anything other then letting them off the hook and "defeating" them by going "no you". Also clearly we have different meanings of forgiveness, cuz letting them live and not shattering them or locking them away for all eternity with no escape sure seems like forgiving them to me
I don’t think Steven has a way to do either of those things.
Why do y’all want Steven to act like the ppl HE IS FIGHTING AGAINST? He doesn’t want to shatter Gems including the Diamonds. Letting them live without punishment isn’t forgiving that’s mercy not the same thing.
Ah, no, you're right, he *tolerated* the genocidal dictators.... much better
I don’t see why it’s a problem that he did. Steven has tolerated almost every villain he had to go against so why him doing it for the diamonds is any different? He didn’t forget nor forgive them for what they did and didn’t even want to be in their presence. He almost killed White cuz of what she caused him to go through.
ah yes because if my family was killed by fucking space hitler I'd be so fine with a random snot nosed fucking 14 year old going "I forgive you". The diamonds deserve to go to literal hell.
Maybe consider an argument in better faith.
Who was killed by them that was Steven family? His mother staged her own shattering and died giving birth to Steven, his dad is alive, his mothers The Crystal Gems who raised him are alive, so who was family to Steven that was killed by them? And if that pissed y’all off than y’all clearly don’t know Steven. He holds no grudges or doesn’t try to and while he may have said that and probably believed it at first Future and the movie shows he doesn’t truly forgive them just tolerates them.
I agree that the diamonds should be punished, but let me ask you this? Who exactly is going to punish them? Steven? The other gems? The diamonds at the end understand that what they did was wrong and they seem eager to atone but there's no indication that they would be willing to undergo any kind of imprisonment or exile, more so, there isn't anyone who could force them into it.
Yes Steven. He is technically a Diamond and his power was able to cancel out even White Diamond's power.
Tolerate and accepting are two different things.
Did you not watch the movie where he clearly doesn’t like them or the epilogue where he only goes to them for help as a last resort? Also he didn’t forgive them, he just recognized that they’re they only ones who can fix things. They can literally bring gems back from the dead
did you watch the movie where he still spent time with them, he just wanted to go back home? Last resort doesn't mean he dislikes them. He does forgive them "because they're family", and that was stupid. They can heal corrupted gems, not bring back from the dead.
He wasn’t spending time with them he was teaching them how to be better people. When does he forgive them? In future yellow diamond is shows bringing gems back to life and using her powers to make sure they have normal proportions
when did he forgive them? When he spent time with them and talked about loving them and didn't prosecute them for being fucking space hitlers. If you count shattered/cracked gems as dead then yeah you're right
Does a parole officer forgive every criminal they try to rehabilitate? He did prosecute them and their punishment was that they had to step down as the leaders of the gems and had to fix everything they messed up while being leaders. Why wouldn’t you count shattered gems as dead?
1. If you were a parole officer for literal hitler but 100x worse, would you be nice to them and hang out with them? No. Did they step down, because they clearly have control over everything. I mean they can still be fused as shattered gems, so it's more like eternal torture or hell.
He wasn’t hanging out with them. He was teaching them to be better and showing them how they can fix the gem empire. Yeah in future the gems are electing a new leader meaning the diamonds aren’t in power anymore.
Talked about loving them? WTF ARE YOU ON ABOUT? He both couldn't really prosecute them since they are THE most powerful gems and they are also crucial in fixing the corrupted gems. Steven doesn't even like the diamonds, period. Ben also talks to villains, doesn't mean they are buddy buddy now.
during the fight in the original series he was like "oh we're family you guys gotta stop". And? they still killed trillions, Steven not pursuing justice is unthinkable given the previous situations he's been in where he protects those who are weaker than him against a stronger opponent. Steven might dislike the diamonds, but thats debatable and irrelevant, because either way he's forgiven them because they're not being tortured to death in a cell for their trillions of crimes. Ben talks to villains, still doesn't mean he likes them, and I'd argue most of them aren't nearly as bad as the diamonds
He didn't kill the space nazi he basically forgave them
No it didn't, the diamonds were not at all forgiven
He left them in charge of a Galaxy wide empire and didn’t put them through any punishment for the countless planets they’ve destroyed and species they’ve genocided That’s forgiveness
No he didn't, they were literally stripped of all political power, homeworld was turned into a democracy, and the diamonds were forced to become public servants, using their powers to help fix the wrongs they committed
Hey you know what that’s called Redemption or in other words FORGIVENESS Maybe he still had a chip on his shoulder but he straight up calls them family
He literally tried to kill white diamond, I think it's safe to say he doesn't actually consider them family and just calls them that to keep the peace, and no, that's not called forgiveness, that's called a punishment.
It’s not a punishment if they’re doing it by choice Also Steven was in a state of emotional instability which was being further fueled by his pink state not to mention that afterwards the diamonds forgave him And helped him calm down after he snapped and became Stevezilla Face it dude at the end of the day he made peace with them and even if he hasn’t FULLY forgiven them he’s working towards it you’re whole argument is void Plus from what you’re arguing Steven sounds like a cold hearted manipulator and general horrible person is that who you think Steven is
No, he did not forgive them! He used them to help restore the corrupted gems since they seem to be a necessary component in the process. I know it's a ben 10 subreddit, but you people seriously either haven't watched the show or just glossed over alot of stuff. In future he even tried to shatter White Diamond. It's like saying Ben just outright forgave Vilgax and the Highbreeds and all their warcrimes. If you have a problem with my last statement, then you should also have a problem with the last statement of the meme unless you haven't even watched the show, which is fine, but don't trash it for no good reason. Both shows are good in different ways.
Someone didn't see The Movie and Future
I watched them He was angsted but he still let them off easy
Except Ben didn’t do it with a fucking comeback. Ben cured the problem that started the whole genocide thing in the first place and then they just left. What reason would he have for chasing after them.
Also chasing after them is objectively not his job considering the setting *has* interstellar police and governments meant to handle these matters. That's a job for the plumbers, especially when Ben is still only seen as temporarily deputized.
Yeah, if anything he cured their problem AND inflicted their worst non-death nightmare on them, because he filled in their messed-up DNA with random DNA from the Omnitrix, so now the “genetically superior” species is filled with “impure” DNA and can never reverse it. That’s GOTTA be weighing heavy on them
Because they committed genocide. You literally just answered your own question. What sense does it make to let them just go away unpunished after something like that ?
Steven Universe did the last one without a change of power in the leadership of the genocidal aliens
There was a change of power in the leadership. They show in future that they’re electing new leaders and the diamonds are public servants now
That’s like saying Germany would be all good if they kept Hitler as a public servant
I mean the situation's more akin to japan's overhaul after WWII. The change wasn't as drastic as you'd think, only a small handful of figureheads were removed from power. I definitely think the ending was lacking, and the show was not built to handle the subject of governmental upheaval, but... I mean it's not like genocidal intent hasn't sometimes been met with a slap on the wrist in actual history.
If Hitler was a necessary component in fixing broken/corrupted soldiers, then yeah, pretty much!
If Hitler could cure every disease and bring people back from the dead I would definitely keep him as a public servant
Yeah I don't get why people want them bubbled or shattered. They are too powerful to go down unwillingly, and they are doing everything they can to make amends. Preventing them from doing that would be its own act of villainy.
The diamonds were never forgiven and were stripped of their political power, they were also turned into social servants.
Steven universe is guilty of the last one as well Arguably even worse then Ben 10. The final battle was litterally “stop being mean” “ok”
He never forgave or became friends with the diamonds. Even with his mom and himself, he has unpleasant feelings toward every diamond.
Yet space rock hitler still got off scot Free.
Yeah because they’re the only ones who can fix what they did
But I mean theyre still the leaders of their species. for commiting the space holocuast you’d think there’d be some real punishment. even forgetting all that at least ben had to do something huge to stop the leaders and even then it wasn’t until they witnessed another of their kind that was already corrupted for them to realize and step down. All Steven did was tell the diamonds to stop being evil and they immediately agreed.
Why is Ben the one to dole out that punishment? He isn't a judge, he cured the disease they were suffering from, from that point its up to the galaxy to deal with them.
They aren’t still the leaders of their species. In future the gems are electing a new leader. The diamonds are just public servants now That’s not really the argument we’re having here but Steven didn’t just say “stop being evil,” he said “I’m the reincarnation of your dead child and I’m going to show you how to be a better person” and then he worked on that for two years. You seem to think that just because the movie didn’t show us the whole process that means it didn’t happen. Did you think nothing happened during the time skip?
i admit I havent seen much of steven universe but I know it was pathetically easy for steven to convince them not to be evil.
It took him like 2 years. White diamond wasn’t convinced at the end of their fight
Freedom isn't forgiveness.
Ok but the last one: Steven literally did that. He told a one-liner and White Diamond was magically defeated and surrendered. At least Ben's was a better resolution with a some sense to it.
First: Steven did let the diamonds mostly off the hook. even if he personally didn't forgive them totally, they didn't get arrested or killed or anything. In fact they seem much happier in their new roles than they were before, so if anything he still managed to improve their lives. Second: if we're gonna blame Ben for the highbreed, lets not forget that the rest of the universe cooled down on them pretty fast too. One even got a job as a bailiff in the galaxy's high court. this isn't much of a fair comparison given that both shows have VERY different aims. One's a highly marketable action show and the other is much more emotional.
Also ben did more to actually tackle the root cause of the issue instead of just hitting them with a rolled up newspaper and saying to behave. The highbreed started their genocide because they only had a few generations left before genetic decay killed them too, with them being hybridized they no longer have that deadline, *and* are forced to confront that racial supremacy doesn't work. Oh, *and* the council that headed the genocide itself stepped down to elect a new leader specifically to help their people transition out of their old ways. Sure, there's a million implications to that ending that aren't explored - splinter groups that are further radicalized because they've been "mutilated" with alien DNA, mass suicides, a fuck ton of internal strife, etc - but there *was* a change to the underlying issue and we can presume those are all being worked on off screen. Also; Ben got to actually *finish* this plot on time before executive meddling changed the tone, while Steven Universe was constantly on the verge of cancellation and had to struggle for the movie and Future season. Yeah, that's gonna make the end product weaker.
I do adore Steven though.
The Diamonds are so powerful that no force in the SU universe could arrest or kill them if they didn't want to surrender. And what would that accomplish? So what if they're happy in their roles? The important part is that their new roles are actively improving the world. This is the main problem with the irl prison system, focusing on punishment rather than rehabilitation. Punishment for punishment's sake at the detriment of the rest of the universe is inherently selfish. While the show has an accelerated time frame, any immortal can be around long enough to completely change as a person, even if they are space Hitler. Especially if the core tenet of their beliefs are that they are all-knowing, and thus incapable of wrong-doing. Steven didn't just say "stop being bad", he showed beyond a reasonable doubt that White was undeniably WRONG about something. And if she was wrong about even one thing, what if she was wrong about EVERYTHING? Arresting or killing her would have robbed her of the ability to make this breakthrough and devote the rest of her immortal life to improving the universe.
>no force in the SU universe could arrest or kill them Wrong, bismuth literally created a weapon that could shatter a diamond. Also yeah the diamonds are immortal, guess what that means at any point they can just go "we're in charge again and no one can stop us, and we'll be doing the same thing again"
And the highbreed were so powerful stopping them wasn’t an option either no?
Yes, so Ben didn't stop them, he changed their minds (unintentional pun).
Ok im not here to talk about anything SU related cus idk much about it. But I just wanna say that the rest of the universe being chill with the highbreed makes sense. Don't forget that Ben is famous accross the universe and even before alien force ppl would pass around LEGENDS of his actions. There is a very high chance that if an insanely famous and well respected person said something/one was chill, then a large majority of ppl will listen
That is true. And to give credit to Ben, he DID see them denounce their behavior in person and the new leader step up and tell everyone "Hey, let's not be assholes anymore". And it's a kids show so I don't think they went too deep into the trust issues... regardless, I would say both shows have a record of "Hey stop this genocide" "OK"
Ben wasn't buddy buddy with the Highbreeds. Wtf are you smoking? He did the DNA randomizer as a last resort to make a ceasefire, so the Highbreed didn't go extinct and continue the war. Renny is the only Highbreed Ben is friendly with, and that was after going on a dimensional field trip with him.
Hey! In Steven Universe are genocidal leaders of a genocidal empire that were forgiven.
The poll ignores the fact that the main villains of Alien Force were a highly advanced race acting out of desperation in the face of extinction. Their methods were cruel and brutal, especially the mind control, but humanity would not have acted any better in their place. The diamonds, on the other hand, invaded Earth to hunting a traitor and had no issues destroying Earth entirely if not for the interference of the Rogue crystal gems. Imagine being willing to blow up a planet over one guy who had no idea he was the offspring of said traitor.
Can't really see humanity killing everything because their dying.
we have a live action play thing that's close enough to a musical
Wait I thought the last one was reverse wasn’t it?
Bullshit, Steven and the Gems let the Diamonds walk around like NOTHING happened.
I'm calling BS on you. Steven and the Crystal Gems got the Diamonds to step down from leadership, and Homeworld is electing new leaders. The Diamonds are public servants undoing their damages and have no political power.
Yet they still aren’t imprisoned… and who’s to say they won’t do anything again?
That last one should be both
Well in Ben 10 Alien Force a new leader takes over the high breed at the end White Diamond gets to remain the ruler
STEVEN DID THE LAST ONE AS WELL
No he didn't. He still doesn't like the diamonds at all. He just recognizes that they have the power to unshatter gems.
Steven Universe was a corny show. Nothing but dances , talk no jutsu and shitty songs.
Okay come on the Songs are bangers
Aint the last one switched?
>Forgave the leaders of a genocidal dictatorship SU did that too. The Great Diamond Authority were waging wars for millions of years and when they found a planet, they wiped out all organic life on it and then used it to produce more of them. But then Steven asked them to be nice and.. they did .\_.
He still hates them and he forced them to step down from power. I get that the ending of was rushed, but even when I first saw it I didn't understand why people thought he forgave them.
BECAUSE THE IMMORTAL SPACE DICTATORS WEREN'T ACTUALLY PUNISHED FOR ANYTHING! they still live in their castle, can still leave whenever, and nothing is stopping them from deciding to go back to their old ways
They were stripped of all institutional power, their former subjects exposed to presumably mass amount of human media, and a functioning democracy instated in their former empires. As seen in The Movie, not even their former Pearls respect them, they've lost all semblance of legitimacy, even if they wanted to return to their old ways, the inhabitants of homeworld won't allow them, and I don't care how strong the diamonds are, they can't stop the combined forces of homeworld, not even White can control that many gems. You don't just come back from a political prat fall that massive.
Except they are able to control that many gems because they've been controlling that many gems, also they're immortal, they have all the time in the universe to rebuild even if it takes a thousand years that's a drop in the bucket of time to an immortal
I was talking about White's mind control, which I highly doubt is limitless and is basically their only hope for any chance at returning to power. Even a single Lapis Lazuli, a prodigy though she was, was capable of giving a diamond a challenge, now imagine an entire planet of gems fighting just three diamonds. Yes, the diamonds are immortal, but so are all gems. They only controlled their empire because they were unopposed, but now Steven has completely ruined their legitimacy as rulers. Their careers are dead.
Mass murderers retained their freedom and their main ships. Ben 10 didn't exactly forgave DNAliens. He just cured them and then Rainy convinced them to stop genocide. And it's the similar situation - they lost some of their political power but overall retained their freedom of movement.
He still hated the diamonds. Yeah, he couldn't strip them of their freedom of movement, but he did everything he could to ensure they would never threaten anyone ever again, and once he was done with that, he promptly left with no intention of ever returning.
also aren't some of the steven universe creators like pretty dodgy
which one of em made the ed edd and eddy porn
Pretty sure it was Sugar herself but I might remember it wrong
Guys get blasted in an online poll and just straight mald about it.
Didn’t also resolve the conflict arc of the Genocidal Hybreed peacefully just like Steven did with Diamonds? I don’t know if I could say he “forgave” the hybrid for their offenses but it was still a nonviolent resolution to the arc. I’m not saying the writing was bad for that. I like both shows but they both tend to depict resolutions to conflicts which shouldn’t be emulated in real life.
I thought steven universe did forgive genocidal dictators? Is there a reason white diamond doesnt count
He never forgave White Diamond, still actively hates her, and basically pulled the "if you don't stop being a horrible person I'm never talking to you again" card to get her to step down as dictator and let him establish a democracy.
Crazy how it worked
Steven universe is hated for other reasons.
Can't exactly say Ben lost his morals when it came to kevin.
Didn’t SU forgive the diamonds despite them also being incredibly evil and they did nothing to be good?
SU isn't hated for the show, but for the fandom. If you weren't online when it first aired you have no idea just how toxic and absurd the fans were and left everyone else with a bad taste regarding it.
Didn’t Steven like literally do the last one
Steven Universe \*did\* forgive genocidal space nazis, though..
Steven did forgive them though
Kinda sad how the show with a moral of peace and love had fans turn incredibly aggressive if you drew Rose Quartz not fat.
Forgave?like bro what choice did he have?
Galactic prison make a whole planet a prison for her but no let's forgive the dictator who wiped out planets and killed probably billions of living creatures just for their resources like there are thousands of other planets that don't have life on them and have plenty of resources but no let's go for the ones that have life on them.
Ben i am talking about ben
Ben didn't forgive any dictator he actually appointed the whole new leader and changed the whole species is DNA so he basically fixed the problem he didn't forgive no dictator he actually overthrew the dictator
He didn't threw anyone over rhiney convinced them
In my experience Steven universe for the precise reason you listed
Who did ben forgive? Cuz it cant the knights or the cult of dagon
Highbreeds
You look at that scene and assume that ben was in a position of power there?
Are y’all comparing these shows because you’re still mad about the white diamond vs. vilgax thing?
Vilgax is at least continent level and at best large planet level white diamond is like City level at least at best Continental because the blast that covered all of the Earth was with the help of two other diamonds and that is the only planetary feat that Steven Universe has I don't count the cluster because it became an entity later on and it isn't going to blow up the Earth and it is not able to move
Is this Steven universe hate still going come on people the series has been over for 4 years get over it
How dare Ben fix the problem instead of committing mass genocide??
I think Ben 10 is way better than Steven Universe because Steven Universe is overrated
Virgin Steven Universe: Basically gaslighted the said Empire's leader because he was her grandson, didn't address any of the inhumane actions they did, completely forgets that they are literally space nazis and instead tries to befriend them because "fAmIlY" Chad Rizz Lord Ben Tennyson: Fought for his planet, worked alongside and even saved one of his enemies military officers, redeemed him and made him saw the error of his xenophobic ideology, saved a dying race alongside the many races of the Universe and broke peace between them.
Maybe if Steven’s voice didn’t make my skull vibrate I’d watch it
Steven Universe is poorly written and boring.
SU is so over-hatted it’s criminal, but the movie was absolute peak.
I’m glad someone else realizes Steven never forgave the Diamonds. I honestly don’t know how people came to that conclusion tbh. He just tolerated them and even that’s being generous. We see in the movie that he doesn’t like them much at all and wants to be away from them as much as possible. Like when the Diamonds were trying to convince him to stay with them and he rushes to get to the Warp Pad in order to leave. In Future we also see that he has intrusive thoughts of slamming White Diamond’s head through a pillar. That wasn’t anyone else’s thoughts but Steven’s. He couldn’t really shatter them either as that’s not in his character and because shattering them would do nothing but harm considering devoted Diamond followers would start yet another war with the Crystal Gens. A prison also wouldn’t hold them seeing as they’re the most powerful beings in the universe. Pacifying and letting the Diamonds use their abilities to help repair the damage they’ve caused was the only real effective solution.
Still got off better than most other villains, and besides, I would say as far as Ben forgiving the Highbreed, not like the rest of the universe was throwing them that deep under a bus either. IDK, hard to compare two shows with very different aims anyway.
I guess this is meant to have the answer be steven universe....but your acting like steven universe is treated like a golden child...when it has its share of haters. Granted some of it is from homophobes that can't stand anyone but a cis het couple having the implications of being in a relationship...but its not exactly free of hate
Nah, most of the hate is for its corny fan base that have done some real toxic stuff over the years and liking what's pretty much a glorified shipping show.
Nah maybe at the shows inception. Nowadays it’s universally hated by most
With all the Steven Universe and Ben 10 stuff I need a crossover fanfiction.
Was going to ask what you'd call Ben's crystal transformation, but... I mean he'd just use Diamond Head.
Yeah, no. Didn't SU literally did the last part? At least Ben 10 treated those issues better than SU did. And there's a big possibility that the former rulers were persecuted for war crimes. Plus, the Highbreed autocratic regime became somewhat extinct by the time Omniverse comes in, where we see one Atasian worked for the Celestialsapien court in order to redeem themselves.
You guys are sore losers lol
One is Ben 10, and the other is Steven Universe. You can’t compare them. I mean it’s Ben 10 for gods sake. Who gives a rats ass about Steven Universe when compared to Ben 10? I mean it’s Ben 10
True but wasn’t Ben down with killing the highbreed until he was brought to a stalemate cuz of the weapon?
Yeah, no. Didn't SU literally did the last part? At least Ben 10 treated those issues better than SU did.
Steven Universe fell off after season 3 tbh