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The corporation I work for lost a lawsuit for this exact thing. They kept telling a woman her clothes were inappropriate. She was wearing business attire, she just had the audacity to have boobs.
One of the ladies I used to work with in the Engineering department had that problem. She had a knock-out body and wore a t-shirt dress that was a bit form fitting. It was not tight or inappropriate in my mind. I had a similar dress I wore to work and no one ever said a thing, but I didn’t have the figure she had. Well, the chief engineer’s secretary called her in and told her not to wear that dress again. To be fair, I’m sure the guys in the office were drooling over her, but that is hardly her fault. She couldn’t help being beautiful. I would bet a million dollars it wasn’t a guy who complained about her dress. This was many years ago, and these days, no one would dare comment about something like that.
My mother used to tell me to stop wearing low-cut shirts when I visited. She said it was distracting for my nephews and brothers-in-law. WTF?!?
Anyway, one day my sister and I showed up wearing the exact same shirt. The only difference was, my sister is barely an A cup and I was a C.
I pointed out to my mother that my shirt was not low cut, it just showed more because I had more to show. I asked her if I was allowed to stop apologizing for having boobs now. She got embarrassed and never brought it up again.
I get so many comments from my mom and sister about “too much cleavage”. (For some context I’m an F cup.) Lately the trend is that I should “wear something” under a lot of my clothes. Sorry but no, I’m not going to buy a bunch of high-necked shirts to wear under anything vaguely low-cut. I’m also no longer allowed (in their eyes, I’ve started ignoring their “advice”) to buy bras with any type of raised pattern or lace since it may be slightly noticeable when things stretch tighter over my boobs.
In general I’m super self-conscious and would care about their opinions on what I wear, but I’m so past that when it comes to my chest now and mostly I just want to scream in their faces.
Ah yes, because the thing you most with large boobs is more layers… /s
I’m reasonably small, and even I get boob sweat issues in summer. I imagine it gets progressively worse the larger your boobs are.
Yet large bras are mostly lined; because yeah, what my boobs need is some additional padding.
It reminds me of the early 90s, when every jacket had shoulder pads. Finding an interview suit that didn’t make me look like a linebacker took awhile.
Lmao, I don't even wear a bra because Itty bitty titties, they will still literally drip sweat and leave a gross wet spot on my t-shirt. Swampy ass boobs.
Some people don't seem to realize that even if we wear a turtleneck, our boobs are - shockingly - still there. In fact, I actually feel like a turtleneck/crew neck make them look bigger.
What they really want is for us to wear a boob flattener and pretend to be A cups.
In my experience a turtleneck makes my G-cups look like they'd be visible from space - I think it's because there's no visual interruptions so you just get this one long (long (LONG)) line between neck and boobies. Give me a medium scoop neck any day.
I had the same issue with my mum. Having a baby bumped my cup size from a scant B to a full C, but the rest of my measurements hadn’t changed enough to warrant a new wardrobe… and, good grief, the snide comments.
I have a C cup, my mother and I have constant fights about me wearing revealing shirts (I am 27 years old). I once wore a dress that had cutouts and a tie front to a family party a few years ago and my parents had a meltdown and I had to change 😭 we still argue🙄
See, i'm a guy, and i don't get this. It's not hard to not be a fucking creep.
A good looking woman is walking nearby? Don't stare and don't blame her for you wanting to. She can't control you, and if yoi have that little self control i am wondering how you make it down a street in summer withiut crashing your damn car...
Also that "you" is in general, not specifically at the guy i'm replying to.
Honestly!! I'm sapphic, but I don't mind when men look at me when I know I look good. Hell, straight women look at other women's butts sometimes! The problem comes in when someone stares or makes comments or just makes it obvious. Quick peek? Totally fine and normal. Staring and drooling? Creepy. Regardless of gender
As humans. We're basically programmed to pay attention to certain things. Two of those things are motion, and attractive features on other humans. This explains the glances and why sometimes you find yourself looking at someone without the intention to.
However staring is not driven by this. That is either thr person was so tuned out they didn't realize they were staring or 100% directly on purpose. Exceptions should be made for staring in shock, like that time i was installing internet and the (admitedly a solid 9/10) wife waltzed out naked. I stared, but it was more the situation and my brain bluescreening than me intending to stare. I'd been blindsided by that. Also, i'm pretty sure she was trying to seduce me, but i'd already met her brick wall of a husband and i wasn't about to do that to the man, both out of common decency and the fact i didn't feel like finding out what it's like to be treated like a toothpaste tube...
Anyhow, what i'm saying is: your instant reaction is instinct 90% of the time. It's the action *after* that that is intent.
Wholeheartedly agree.
>Anyhow, what i'm saying is: your instant reaction is instinct 90% of the time. It's the action after that that is intent.
This goes for a lot of life. I remember when training a lot of hate and bigotry out of myself this really came to mind. The initial reaction is a lot of knee-jerk that usually comes from your environment and does not dictate who you are. Correcting and reminding myself that those two men kissing not only doesn't affect me but is just love and no different from others.
Grew up with republican, Christian, white grandparents so you can imagine what's been shoved in my head.
Yep. It's also why every *emotion* is valid, but your *response* to said emotions may not be.
Example: buddy steals my $600 headphones. My emotions would likely be betrayal and anger, especially if i wasn't able to get them back. That is valid.
Going over to his house, beating his ass until i get answers or my headphones back, and then a bit more because he had the gall to steal from me? Definately *not* a valid response. The valid response would be to demand them back, and take it up legally. Maybe a few posts to social media warning about said theivary, but not inflicting bodily harm over a posession.
It happened to my coworker as well. Every time she would get in trouble for her top I would wear a much lower cut one the next day and make sure I would talk to my manager multiple times that day. Crickets. The difference between us = boob size.
You might be wrong about who complained.
I’m a (woman) engineering manager who got asked by HR to help out on a clothing complaint in a large engineering organisation about an extremely attractive younger woman who worked in admin and turned up looking like a model every day.
As far as I’m aware, the women in the department loved her outfits. (It probably helped that she was lovely and kind, and dumb as a post…).
Her clothing was always workplace appropriate and tasteful, just frequently formfitting and a tiny bit fashion-forward. There were many complaints, all from men, and hr only stepped in when a guy claimed she wasn’t wearing underwear and he could see “everything” on the stairs one day. He would have had a heart attack if that was true.
Even hr didn’t know how to deal with the complaints as she was, in their words, the only appropriately (business professionally) dressed person in the building.
Don’t assume that all men ‘drool’ over attractive women, and that only women would be jealous enough to complain. (In fact, that’s a sentiment that feels rather something-ist; someone else can decide if it’s misogynistic or another -ist).
True. There was an uber-religious dad in our school's PTA, and any time any woman in his vicinity wasn’t dressed like a nun or tried to chat with him like a normal person, he’d start rambling about his wonderful wife.
It took us all a while to catch on, but it seemed like he felt immensely guilty whenever he felt things shifting in his boxers, so he'd have to refocus his brain on his wife, and make subtly critical comments about the offending woman later to affirm to himself that she was to blame for his impure thoughts. It was damned annoying for the rest of us.
We had an engineering manager that was a prude like this and made sure everyone knew it. He even forced people to mold to his wishes when we had after hours or weekend poker games and such.
He was eventually arrested for exposing himself to young girls at Home Depot.
Oh wow. To my knowledge, this guy was generally decent, but when his wife died shortly after giving birth to their *twelfth baby*, he kept offering to let my teenaged daughters visit when I got busy with a health issue. I really hope it was to help him with housekeeping stuff/babysitting, but it creeped me out.
> a guy claimed she wasn’t wearing underwear and he could see “everything” on the stairs one day
He needs to get his head out of his fantasies and into reality.
I once worked with a young woman who wrote a sleeveless top to the office. It was a fairly casual dress code there.
She came to me one day and asked if I thought her outfit was inappropriate. I had no idea what she was talking about.
Her (female) supervisor had told her that her top wasn't appropriate. I'm betting that it was just that the young woman had a good figure.
It must feel absolutely awful to be told you're dressing inappropriately when you think you're really trying hard to fit into the company culture.
This was my last 2 years of high school, constantly in trouble for wearing regular shirts that were "too tight". They were only tight in my chest (and not overly so) because I dared to go through puberty and end up well-endowed.
I was coming in here to say, the very next person she needs to speak to is an employment attorney. This is almost the definition of sexual harassment and I'd bet half my lands and half my cattle that she's got a solid case.
Disgusting. She should have just popped her boobs off in the morning, dressed *appropriately* for work, and then she could always have popped them back on after work if she needed to have boobs so badly!!!!
Learned a new word today! Malapropism, makes me feel very smart :)
(Essentially when you have two similar sounding words and use the incorrect one, sometimes to humorous effect)
But they don't *really* want a frumpy lady. They *want* a young attractive lady to look nice for when they get people coming in. They just feel attacked *because* she's attractive; it makes them feel bad about either their own bodies or that they *notice* hers(depending on the gender of the person involved).
The only thing I would question is she says she also makes YouTube videos for them. If that’s something she does often then I could see a bit them wanting the face of the company to look a certain way. But if so that is definitely something that needed to be outlined properly and is much different from everyday wear which is what seems to be the problem.
EXACTLY!!! I bet most don’t give a crap but there’s a few there that don’t like it probably cause they used to be the best looking.
I mean at her young age? And everyone’s older and dresses like crap? Def this.
What I don't understand is how dark colours are distracting. Usually, it's the other way around, you'll rarely see professionals dressed in bright colours with patterns. Like you said it's about her body and they want her to look like a clown!
They are grasping at any straw they can. No idea what they are playing at, but if I were OOP I would assume it was a way to fire me.
Putting my professional hat on all professional-like? The place is poorly run. They went about her dress code nonsense all wrong. And they are targeting someone they hired for reception who now does three or four jobs on top of it. The left hand doesn’t know what the right hand is doing, as the expression goes.
>I would assume it was a way to fire me.
Or it's a way to keep her paid far less than she worth. She's already lost out on her entire yearly raise once because her turtleneck was too revealing.
She needs to start looking for a lawyer. Depending on her area, random guess of settlement would be equivalent to about 6-24 months of salary. Lawyer will take a third.
Most businesses with a decent lawyer would look at the evidence, especially the voice recording, and immediately recommend payout.
Have you ever actually gone against your employer for legal issues? Because it is nowhere near as easy as you make it out to be. It can often be a long, emotionally difficult process with an uncertain payout. Hell, even finding a lawyer isn't easy. I HAVE GONE through it, I speak from experience and it's not something I would ever blithely recommend -- yes, I won in my case BUT knowing what I know now, I likely would not put myself through it again. In OP's case, I would get myself another job first *then* go to a lawyer and have them write a demand letter to my prior employer.
Yes, I did. I pissed off the CEO of a Fortune 50 company to the point where he demanded I be fired, and their legal department overruled him. Because they knew I'd pick up the phone and notify DDTC.
Apologies, I assumed OOP would be looking for another job. I concur you want to find another job and then file the suit. I wouldn't wait to find the lawyer, but I would delay filing until I was gone.
I had this experience too, totally policing my body and not the clothes. Except the difference for me was that they were policing me because I was fat, not because I was hot.
After I got my beauty license, I was working at a lash salon, and I was told BY THE OWNER that the dress code was incredibly casual. "Just be fashionable and comfortable", were her words, given that the work involved hours of sitting in one spot in an attic room. The other girls all wore leggings, ripped jeans, off the shoulder graphic tees with rips in them. Totally alt grunge looking stuff. For my first month, I wore more dressy clothes, like blouses with a cardigan and long maxi dresses. But then one day I wore a t-shirt I got from a van Gogh exhibit (a simple unisex crew neck) with a skirt, and my boss came to me and informed me that I needed to go home and change because I looked 'unprofessional'. She said I looked like I had just 'thrown on an outfit', while the girl next to me had a fucking Misfits t-shirt on with ripped jean shorts. The difference between us? She was super thin, and I wasn't. A fat woman can wear literally the same outfit as a thin person, but because they're fat, people will see it as 'frumpy' or 'unprofessional', but not view the thin person in the same way.
Had the same thing with one of my former managers. She'd get in a snit about people (*ahem* women) not looking "professional" by wearing hoodies, etc. on (internal) calls when working from home, but if you went into the office that was literally what everybody else was wearing. Wore jeans and a loose tshirt to the office for a team lunch once and the fucking look on her face was like I'd stepped in dog shit. She also conveniently fired the only two fat women on her team for "performance issues". Total coincidence I swear.
She is looking for a new job.
But what she should be doing is also consulting a lawyer to see if they will take the case on contingency with what she already has documented, get official copies of her reviews.
Then see if they can get a W for a harassment and I guess... discrimination? It sounds like they are targeting her cause she is young woman - while I think you cant discriminate due to youth (you can, I just unsure if its legally recognized), you certainly can't cause shes a woman.
This seems like some sort of mild settlement in her favour should be a good outcome. "We can extend your hours for more pay", assholes PAY OOP more cause she is DOING more. Her duties exceed the role of reception. It's a bloody admin role and it sounds like they have her doing technical duties for free.
I’m not particularly litigious, I’ve let a couple of things go in my life that I could have gone to court over. I would probably go the “find a new job” route if I were in OOP’s shoes.
But part of me hopes she decides to lawyer up because she could almost definitely find someone on contingency given the slam dunk evidence the employer was stupid enough to provide.
So the Chattering Order of St. Beryl?
Sister Mary Loquacious would have had their heads spinning around on their necks within weeks, days maybe. It would be fun to watch.
I’m not only confused over what OP is supposed to wear, I’m now confused over what business casual is at all.
Are black jeans business casual?? I am not directing any snark to OP with this I just want to wear them if this IS a generally accepted standard.
It depends on the organisation and what they’re worn with. But they definitely can be.
Smart, dark black jeans (not ripped/faded/distressed) with a top or blouse and jacket would absolutely be considered smart casual/business casual in most places.
I know they said the office/bosses were mostly POC, but my mind immediately went to [this lady](https://images.app.goo.gl/TL9m8Eusru4hAEyZ9) when she started describing stuff. That look but with gaudy bright colors.
A federal civil rights attorney would be a good start, as a light jacket. Many offices are cold, especially if you have to crawl around on a tile floor changing soap dispensers.
From what I read she simply has taste and style.
She's a distraction exactly because she dresses well.
It sounds like she deliberately matches her clothes into entire outfits (which imho is a good thing), and it works.
Every time they asked her to correct, she dressed up a little. They should have told her to dress down. They want her to look a bit more boring. To mismatch clothes so they don't make an outfit.
To some people, dark colors denote sexiness. Ask your mom or grandma if they had to be a certain age before they wore black because it was too "grown up."
But they also don't like her jeans. Not all jeans. *Her* jeans. Because not having pockets completely changes the material they're made from.
She should take those pictures and the recording straight to a lawyer.
A sales office for Credit Card machines? With an active employee count and the capability to throw big Christmas/Office parties?
That is not a small office.
The tech startup I work for has 8 people and even our CEO is just starting to hire an outsourced HR company since our startup went from 5 to 8 people.
No excuses for not having an HR dept anymore. Outsourced HR services are a thing.
My workplace - a one doctor owned veterinary hospital - had no formal HR since its conception 30 years ago. Which is pretty typical for veterinary clinics, unless it’s a corporate owned practice. And even we got a formal HR department about 3 years ago. If we felt the need for it, then this business sure as shit should have had one.
Especially now-a-days. Employees are much more educated about the labor laws and their rights as an employee than they were 20 years ago. You would think that the company would want an HR to protect themselves. I mean, technically HR is there to protect *the company*…usually from itself and the horrible decisions made by the powers that be.
I hope OOP takes her recording to the labor regulating agency in her area. I have a feeling they would be very interested in what she had to say, and what was on that recording.
I worked for a company that had 5 satellite locations and had no HR. But this whole thing have me terrible flashbacks to how my corporate dress was handled. Not at that company, but I worked for a startup M&A firm, and because I also wore dark colors, my suit dresses were not good enough. I'd wear a pinstriped long skirt and get shit for it. Wore a dark suit, nope. I was told at another company that had a problem with my dress boots, and was told to get some nice heels. So even though there was no HR at this last company, nothing I wore there was out of line. I had the most tattoos there, but a few people did have visible ones. This was back in 2008, and females with tattoos on arms were not quite as common, so it was nice to wear a short sleeved shirt again.
I know what OP is feeling, and it's an icky feeling to just constantly be judged on clothing
I worked for a business that is family owned and been around for decades. No HR. You brought all your problems to the manager. Looking back, yikes. Still loved it there, probably because I never pissed off the manager.
Edit: We also threw Christmas parties.
In Germany every business that has at least 5 workers kann have HR. Management can't do anything about it if the workers want to have one they are by law allowed to vote for HR. I'm pretty sure almost every business has an HR here.
I worked for a small startup and while we didn’t technically have an HR department, our accounts department handled HR affairs and if something came up of concern we would use an external HR firm. It’s really not an excuse
A smart small business will outsource HR matters to a 3rd party or at least have someone trained with split responsibilities. Just because there's not 40 hours of work per week doesn't mean you can just ignore it.
HR is not about protecting you, it is about protecting the company.
The only thing that would've been different is that HR would've released new dress codes in advance and not allowed the meeting to be recorded.
I am completely baffled as to what back pockets or the lack thereof has to do with the appropriateness of jeans. Back pockets don't cover anything that isn't already covered.
Also, most professional places I've worked would see dark colours as way more professional than bright ones. These people have a very odd idea of professional clothing.
The only charitable reading of the situation is that they want OOP to project a certain image but are incapable of describing to her exactly what that image is - apart from "inviting", which, hello, I thought they didn't want her to feel sexualised? Being told to dress "inviting" is totally sexualizing her!
I'm inclined to an uncharitable reading. Someone doesn't like OOP and wants to take her down a peg by holding her to impossible, ever-changing, not clearly articulated standards.
What I really want to know is who is she supposed to look “inviting” to? She says in the beginning of the first post that their office is not public facing, nor do they have industry clientele who come in— their only visitors are interviewees.
So who is her dress code catering to???? She’s not doing the interviews, only answering the phone and sending people into the conference rooms. Why do they have a “front” and “back” of the office if they don’t have regular visitors???
Yeah, this is what stood out to me too! Honestly it sounds like someone higher-up wants her to dress in a specific way for their own personal pleasure, which... EW.
The executive assistant wants her to copycat themselves, because they feel threatened by OOP’s different style and appearance. Meanwhile, since OOP answers to several different people, they’ve all signed onto this idea that it’s okay to micromanage her appearance, and they also have different opinions about it. Is dressing dark sexy or does it come across as harsh or forbidding? Some think one, some think the other, none of them realize that they’re all crossing a big line that they need to step back over.
Totally agree that the 64 year old executive assistant thinks that OP has no sense of professionalism just because she dresses slightly differently than how she wants her to.
ALSO in what world is a turtleneck inappropriate for work but fucking ripped jeans are ok?? I’m so angry for this girl.
If it was just the marketing videos, they could have supplied some tops and accessories for her to wear specifically when recording them. No need to require her to maintain some 'video-ready" look all the time.
The front / back office part was also a bit BS. She said they don't have customers/clients appear at the office. There was no real need to distinguish between her and everyone else. Except as a way to hold her to a separate standard. If it had been a real legit distinction, it would have been there from day 1, considering they did have a different receptionist before her.
I think most of this was coming from the EA. That the EA was jealous and had it out for her. If the EA hadn't had an issue with her, I suspect that this wouldn't have gone anywhere near as far as it did.
I'll even hazard that the Christmas gift incident was not an "Oops". That the EA had said something to ensure the other three bosses wouldn't give her anything. Then deliberately waited and "realized the mistake" later to knock OOPs spirits down a peg or two.
OOP should have been pushing for specific feedback on what she needed to change and how it was out of dress code all along. To operate on the principle "If you can't give specific, actionable feedback, I'm going to assume that you have no valid criticisms."
It would have probably ended up somewhere akin to where things stand now. But it would have helped it to happen sooner. Standing up for herself from the start might have also triggered them into do something stupid... well, more stupid than the stuff they said in that meeting. They were walking themselves a good long way down the road to a harrassment lawsuit there.
> The only charitable reading of the situation is that they want OOP to project a certain image but are incapable of describing to her exactly what that image is - apart from "inviting", which, hello, I thought they didn't want her to feel sexualised? Being told to dress "inviting" is totally sexualizing her!
It's also obviously super sexist, super gendered criticism. She offered to do SO MUCH to alter her appearance and none of it was ever good enough. Would they be this nit picky, over and over, about the clothes (and body!!) of a male receptionist? Tell him he has to wear a shirt long enough to cover his crotch even in dress pants, tell him he looks "chubby" in certain outfits, tell him to wear a gold watch instead of a silver watch, nit pick to the point that he has to wear specific color schemes and shirt patterns that are more "inviting?" No, of course they wouldn't. But so many people have this weird sense of ownership of how women look and present themselves.
If this job really needs a receptionists to essentially wear a work uniform, then they need to (1) spell out EXACTLY what that uniform is so that OP isn't constantly playing an expensive guessing game, (2) pay her enough to afford the exact work uniform, and (3) do it in a way that isn't gendered/sexist and doesn't put excessive hardship on her just because she's a woman.
I think you're right. I saw this
>I am the youngest woman here and I feel like they think they can push me around about things that don't affect my job performance.
and was like *ding-ding-ding!*
I think "denim pants with no back pockets" -> "we can extrapolate too much of what your naked butt might look like". Which is v much a problem with the viewer, imo.
I've also had jobs where "back pockets" = casual pants, not business casual. And a deli job where all pockets were forbidden (apparently something to do with food contamination risk whenever you take stuff out of your pockets? Probably people didn't de-glove and de-glove consistently enough).
I’ve worn women’s jeans all my adult life, and I can confidently say that back pockets on women’s boot cut jeans do not in any way conceal the visual shape of the butt beneath them.
I actually think the back pockets are what differentiates between more casual jeans and slacks. The patch pockets on the butt are generally deemed to be more casual. So OOP is emphasizing that these were denim slacks and not casual pants.
I think I know what is going on here. OP has a slightly alternative style that she has managed to incorporate into her work wear in a way that does not break the dress code but makes them all uncomfortable. I did this as well as a working Goth in the 80s and 90s. She is wearing a lot of dark colours, silver jewelry, I bet her makeup is subtly alternative (maybe a moderate cat eye or a more sculptural brow or a dark
lip) and is reading edgy in a way they don’t like or find challenging. She just being herself and they don’t like it. If she started wearing powder blue blouses and mom slacks they would be ok, but I bet a 50’s style sweater set and a full skirt with flat shoes and a scarf they still wouldn’t like. They don’t want any personality.
The funny thing about Jean pockets is…. It’s the size, shape, design, placement, etc of the rear pockets that often define the shape of a behind. Certain shapes accentuate, certain shapes elongate, etc.
Maybe they just don’t like the fact that if they get caught looking they can’t say they were just looking at the rhinestones on her butt. 🙄
When I was in high school, the private school I attended banned girls from wearing pants with back pockets because back pockets drew attention to our butts.
The ban did not extend to boys.
Dress code culture is so toxic.
Warm, supportive, nonthreatening. Basically they want a 24yo to come across as middle-aged. Which isn’t going to happen, no matter how many bright flowered blouses the EA pushes on her.
This whole thing is just so stupid. This workplace, entirely, is borderline ridiculous and filled with literally some of the dumbest people ever. OP should considered hiring an employment lawyer if possible.
And get compensation for the wasted money on buying random clothing because these people are weird as.
I would have walked. She’s still young (I don’t think it mentioned where she lives - alone, home?). Wouldn’t put up with that nonsense. I would just bail.
Speaking of compensation. . .
If they are telling her she has to adhere to a different handbook/dress code than the rest of the employees, she should definitely check in with labor lawyer.
Some places that put that much emphasis on appearances for certain jobs (Hooters, casinos, underwear coffee shops) actually have to classify those positions as modeling jobs. So a barista having to be easy on the eyes is a model first, coffee maker second.
As a model, there may be different forms of compensation that the company needs to address.
My company is very small. Like about ten employees. We do not have an HR. I was harassed at work by an outside contractor. I told my boss about it and she literally turned bright red and buried her face in her hands. The things he said to me were pretty graphic and my boss is very Christian. She was embarrassed and uncomfortable. Which in turn made me uncomfortable and embarrassed. It was the most juvenile reaction I've seen in person from a 40 year old woman. She wasn't embarrassed for me, she was embarrassed by the verbiage because I told her he asked about my wife's breasts and vagina (we are a lesbian couple. It was not a fun convo). The whole thing was really upsetting and then really awkward. I wasn't expecting that reaction. It was like talking to someone who is 10 years old. She has 3 children.
Lol no. I took a couple of days off and then came back. He was there for another week. I don't want to give too many details but he was teaching my company something new and his presence was required. The whole situation was really shitty. I did totally ice him out and he ended up pseudo apologizing to me. I laid into him a bit and that was it. But at least I've not seen him since and this was years ago
OOP needs to take that recording to an employment attorney. At which point she can see for herself the Dollar Sign Eyes on that attorney's face when they realize just *how badly* her employers fucked up.
Not to mention document these in incidents. The one where they criticized her weight cannot be proven, but it is insane. There is a clear pattern of harassment.
They just want a young woman to mold and control, nothing else. She did a great job advocating for herself in that meeting, even if they didn't hear her. I hope she finds a better job and can toss those ugly clothes they bought her in the bin very soon.
I mean, they left the office that day with a TON of evidence, just go get a lawyer. Hand them the dress code, the photos and the recorded meeting. Seems like obvious discrimination to me.
Damn! I feel for OP!
I had a very similar scenario at one of my hospital jobs..
I was part of a union though, so my union rep was in the meeting with me, and I asked what exactly the issue was and a male manager flat out said “your chest” I said oh, so this is a sexual harassment thing then …
The fact that OP said they said it’s her body/the way her body looks- could get her higher ups in a lot of trouble (at least in Canada)
This is 100% a know your place little woman thing.
I worked in a company with similar owners and way way too much of the role was being called into an office to be talked down to. Like they'd say they were disappointed and I'd go through a list like... is my work wrong? Is my work late? Am I rude? And they'd just get increasingly hysterical about how that wasn't the point and some invisible, unidentifiable thing just *wasn't okay*,
What they wanted, what they were getting at was that they'd headhunted me and I had been very clear that I can only work certain hours and be in the office certain days because I have a kid. And they smiled, nodded, said it was fine.
And then started doing the "disappointed" thing. "It would be nice if...." nah I told you before you hired me and you gave every impression of being able to read. So I lined up another job and quit after a few weeks. My manager straight up didn't speak to me but it wasn't the punishment she hoped it was.
I'd advise OOP to leave. All they'll do is load her up with as much low value work as they can get away with and use her as a whipping boy whenever their own stupid choices contradict each other. Like you can't dress like a receptionist and a cleaner at the same time - but that's going to become your fault. Because they can't possibly accept it's theirs.
"Your body is distracting." Now, I am a straight man at a workplace with a woman majority. And yet, I manage to work with people I find attractive without distraction. Because, you know, I am an adult and thus able to control myself without issue. Something, mind you, I mastered as a literal child.
I would say (while looking for another job) that if they want me to look a certain way, they can supply ALL the outfits I would need. Much like a uniform. Because that is what they request she wears. Most companies get corporate wear for their customer facing personnel.
Then OOP wouldn't wonder what to wear, wouldn't spend more money, and her bosses will be satisfied. And she should still look for another job.
I bet if OOP wrote up the dress code that was outlined to her, and then took it to an employment lawyer, they would be able to walk out with a fat paycheck.
I was a minister for 6 years and my first church that I worked in was lovely but for a while there was an unspoken opinion about my clothes. I don't dress dumpy and I didn't then either. I would wear the typical skirts and dresses to church on Sundays, but when I was in office, it was business casual. I came one from the church one day and there was a box of clothing on my doorstep. I was like okay...opened it up and it was all second hand women's clothing. I don't mind second hand, my mom bought our clothes a lot from thrift shops. But these were all elderly lady type clothing, two sizes to small, and half of them were stained. I just threw them in the box and tossed them. Then almost a year later, I was called into the pastor's office to have a discussion. At the time I had an outfit I liked to wear. It was a pink cardigan, long jean skirt, and a white short sleeve shirt/blouse underneath. He called me in to the office to tell me that my bare arms were making men stumble. I don't need you or anyone to police my body or my clothes. I know what is appropriate, i know that i don't look gross or slutty, and if you can't police your own body because of what I'm wearing, it's more of a you problem than it is a me problem.
Her basically being the only young white woman there is relevant AF. A lot of conservative cultures are gross and over sexualize white women specifically.
She needs a new job. They'll never respect her.
There's something really telling in the "yeah it's wrong, you're just not getting it and it's definitely your fault, here's a million contradictory reasons why... so anyway you wanna work more hours?"
I'm getting the impression that one of the owners? CEOs? someone high-up at least wants OOP to wear some very specific things for their own entertainment. Which of course they can't come right out and say "Hey OOP, play doll for this grown ass man so he can get his rocks off or whatever".
Yeah fuck that noise. I hope OOP gets out of there quickly.
In a perfect world I'd love to see them scared out of their wits by a lawsuit, but that seems unlikely. I just hope OOP gets a better job!
They said she looked chubby?? The whole thing is ick and these people are hugely inappropriate. I hope she finds a different job at a better workplace stat.
Interesting I get the impression OOP wears corporate goth /a tiny Abby sciuto from NCIS and the business has an issue with goth being evil or like, satanic
This executive assistant, Linda, is the source of all this. She is 100% jealous, even if she doesn't consciously realize it. Any women who disagree with me are just fortunate not to have experienced it. And yes, men do cause problems for attractive young women too, no matter what they wear.
It’s good we have laws etc that prevent against sexual harassment, but a unintended side effect is that every company just says “we are inclusive “ etc because they don’t want to be openly flaunting employment law, but a lot of the times it’s BS.
Yeah there’s always a bunch of traps on those fucking applications too that are meant to weed out disabled people.
Ever wonder why a completely non-physical job (like a desk job) “requires” you to lift 40-50 lbs? Well wonder no more!
The first time I hired for my team i crossed off the lift restriction and the college degree description from the job spec. HR tried to talk me into putting it back in because “it’s standard”. I just asked “Why?”
These comments. JFC. It’s so NAIVE to think an HR department would save the day. HR is nothing but a management tool. They protect management / the company. They do not protect the average employee. They quite literally spend time thinking up ways to break labour laws without leaving a shred of concrete proof. They’re architects of: you misunderstood, we didn’t know, the problem is you, he’s not that kind of man, you’re not sufficiently resilient, I’m sorry you’re just not a good fit, blah blah blah blah blah.
Why do I feel like this situation is a "pick on the pretty young girl because we feel insecure about ourselves while exploiting her in any way we can" situation?
This is exactly how my first job went. I was a receptionist who was constant told I was dressed inappropriately despite wearing very normal clothing. A skirt that went down to the floor wasn't professional because it was too bright. Wearing scarves drew too much attention to my chest. If I reached for something and my stomach showed I was distracting the rest of the team. I don't show cleavage, my dresses go to my knees, and I'm not a flirty person (I don't think I'd be able to flirt if I tried). Once I wore a dress and someone higher up than me said "wow, if I had your body I'd never have the confidence to wear that".
Turns out our Director was a massive pervert who kept blaming me for his sexual harassment of other employees. I was 22 and he eventuality thought I was desperate enough to keep my job that I'd sleep with him - nope! Straight to HR. They did nothing until I got the legal department involved.
Dress codes need to apply to everyone or to no one. People like OOPs boss or my previous director are the absolute worst. So glad my current job (as an EA) allows me to dress like a normal person without sexualizing me or making me uncomfortable
I’m guessing the women showing cleavage and wearing ripped jeans are older/less attractive than OP. It sounds like the EA and others want the OP to look frumpy so they don’t feel older and less attractive.
I was once told by a conservative boss that my attire wasn't overly suitable.... so I took myself off to the opp shop/Goodwill and spent about $15-20 on 3-4 shirts and a couple of pairs of pants. Sure the tops were more appropriate for a woman about 30 years older than me and may have been on the larger size.... I've got a vague recollection of my boss kinda being a little surprised at my outfits but they were not inappropriate and it was never mentioned again.
I wore a combination of those outfits for a good year or two.....
I don't actually know what the issue was. The other women in the office probably wore more 'fitted' clothing and maybe more expensive... but I'm someone that hates fitted clothing and likes everything loose. My size was very similar to the others with a BMI around 20 for all of us.
OPs got them saying they are holding her to a different standard and commenting on her body on tape. Time for a sexual harassment complaint to the state/feds.
>”I guess I’m just not cut out for corporate America”
If one person makes up your entire HR department (here the EA), you are NOT in corporate America.
Some countries/cultures wear bright colors like yellow and orange that I would never wear with my pale pink skin tone. I think it is a cultural difference that they keep trying to get you to wear bright colors instead of black or dark colors. I also grew up places where people didn't wear much color (for a while England 80s) you wear lots of black and gray (a little navy green or maroon) like a "normal" person (my normal based on my culture at the time). I physically cringed with my friend came to visit from the US with a pink coat!!! Dark colors or black mean something different to your bosses so they think you are bringing the wrong feel to the office as the receptionist. In a lot of US offices, there is nothing more professional than black. Black is classic. Black is classy. Black is universal. Black is dressy. Black dress pants are a professional woman's basic uniform. Navy is also basic and classic. Bright florals are fine, I suppose, but less professional.
It is absolutely a cultural thing that they are telling you that bright colors like yellow and orange are inviting and black/dark is bad.
I live in a US city with lots of immigrants. There is a color difference in what colors the women wear that is very pronounced based on where they are from. Skin tone and culture tie into that.
The men can't stop looking at her body which, in their minds, is her fault.
"Your jeans don't have back pockets therefore I can see your butt easier. You need jeans with back pockets so I don't see your butt."
Them stating they'd write a employee handbook with appropriate clothing just for her that would be different than the existing employee handbook is a red flag so large you can see it from space. OOP might want to talk to her state's labor board or her country's equivalent.
Latinos and Middle Easterners ARE Caucasian just like you OOP, you're the same race.
"They told me that I was misunderstanding this whole meeting and that was not what they were saying at all".
Perception is reality and this is my reality!
I hope when he leaves, OOP stacks all the clothes they bought her into a neat pile on her desk with a note saying she's returning her uniform for the next person.
OOP should go to a lawyer with that recording, whoever got it would be grinning like a madman and salivating just thinking about all the money they were going to get from those AHs.
OP should really do a consultation with an employment attorney. I mean she’s getting harassed, pretty much daily it sounds like, for things like gold jewelry vs silver and how her butt looks in jeans, when all the while everything she’s wearing is entirely in keeping with the employee handbook.
I experienced some of this myself when working at a restaurant. I was the hostess, so I was expected to dress business casual, as was the dress code for our guests. Sometimes (like for holidays), I would dress up a bit but still kept it appropriate for the workplace. Typically I wore black dress pants/slacks, but I hate the feeling of wide-leg pants so I would choose the more modern, slim-cut pants that have been rising in popularity in the younger office crowd. They were still slacks. They were black. Fully covered my legs, no rips, no fading, no decorative buttons/closures. I would wear nice blouses or white button-ups with them, either tucked or untucked. And yet I was told by my manager that they were “unprofessional” and he couldn’t tell me what actually made them unprofessional.
I asked a coworker, one of our servers, what she thought he meant by “unprofessional” and the only things she could think of were that they were tight-fitting and sometimes people could see a panty line through them. I tried my best to wear underwear that would prevent that (seamless, bikini cuts, etc), but it happened whether I wanted it to or not, even in the looser, wide-leg slacks I eventually bought.
The kicker? My former manager is also my uncle. It was a family-owned restaurant (not ours, but friends’) so I got the job in my early twenties and worked there for about six years. My own uncle tried telling me my pants were inappropriate because they accentuated my ass. While every other female server was wearing tight-fitting Dickie work pants and never got any complaints. He wasn’t being gross, more like an over-protective dad, but it still left a sour taste in my mouth.
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They are definitely policing her body and not her clothes. She should start looking for a new job because this one is a bucket of red flags.
The corporation I work for lost a lawsuit for this exact thing. They kept telling a woman her clothes were inappropriate. She was wearing business attire, she just had the audacity to have boobs.
One of the ladies I used to work with in the Engineering department had that problem. She had a knock-out body and wore a t-shirt dress that was a bit form fitting. It was not tight or inappropriate in my mind. I had a similar dress I wore to work and no one ever said a thing, but I didn’t have the figure she had. Well, the chief engineer’s secretary called her in and told her not to wear that dress again. To be fair, I’m sure the guys in the office were drooling over her, but that is hardly her fault. She couldn’t help being beautiful. I would bet a million dollars it wasn’t a guy who complained about her dress. This was many years ago, and these days, no one would dare comment about something like that.
My mother used to tell me to stop wearing low-cut shirts when I visited. She said it was distracting for my nephews and brothers-in-law. WTF?!? Anyway, one day my sister and I showed up wearing the exact same shirt. The only difference was, my sister is barely an A cup and I was a C. I pointed out to my mother that my shirt was not low cut, it just showed more because I had more to show. I asked her if I was allowed to stop apologizing for having boobs now. She got embarrassed and never brought it up again.
I get so many comments from my mom and sister about “too much cleavage”. (For some context I’m an F cup.) Lately the trend is that I should “wear something” under a lot of my clothes. Sorry but no, I’m not going to buy a bunch of high-necked shirts to wear under anything vaguely low-cut. I’m also no longer allowed (in their eyes, I’ve started ignoring their “advice”) to buy bras with any type of raised pattern or lace since it may be slightly noticeable when things stretch tighter over my boobs. In general I’m super self-conscious and would care about their opinions on what I wear, but I’m so past that when it comes to my chest now and mostly I just want to scream in their faces.
Ah yes, because the thing you most with large boobs is more layers… /s I’m reasonably small, and even I get boob sweat issues in summer. I imagine it gets progressively worse the larger your boobs are.
Yet large bras are mostly lined; because yeah, what my boobs need is some additional padding. It reminds me of the early 90s, when every jacket had shoulder pads. Finding an interview suit that didn’t make me look like a linebacker took awhile.
I used to just cut the damn things out - but I've never cared about fashion either, I wear what I enjoy.
My mum did the same. She has very broad shoulders though.
Also sports bras are all really small. I’ve been trying to find a high impact one and none come in my size. I’m about ready to buy a binder.
Lmao, I don't even wear a bra because Itty bitty titties, they will still literally drip sweat and leave a gross wet spot on my t-shirt. Swampy ass boobs.
Some people don't seem to realize that even if we wear a turtleneck, our boobs are - shockingly - still there. In fact, I actually feel like a turtleneck/crew neck make them look bigger. What they really want is for us to wear a boob flattener and pretend to be A cups.
In my experience a turtleneck makes my G-cups look like they'd be visible from space - I think it's because there's no visual interruptions so you just get this one long (long (LONG)) line between neck and boobies. Give me a medium scoop neck any day.
Why do so many parents just not apologize?
I had the same issue with my mum. Having a baby bumped my cup size from a scant B to a full C, but the rest of my measurements hadn’t changed enough to warrant a new wardrobe… and, good grief, the snide comments.
I have a C cup, my mother and I have constant fights about me wearing revealing shirts (I am 27 years old). I once wore a dress that had cutouts and a tie front to a family party a few years ago and my parents had a meltdown and I had to change 😭 we still argue🙄
See, i'm a guy, and i don't get this. It's not hard to not be a fucking creep. A good looking woman is walking nearby? Don't stare and don't blame her for you wanting to. She can't control you, and if yoi have that little self control i am wondering how you make it down a street in summer withiut crashing your damn car... Also that "you" is in general, not specifically at the guy i'm replying to.
Honestly!! I'm sapphic, but I don't mind when men look at me when I know I look good. Hell, straight women look at other women's butts sometimes! The problem comes in when someone stares or makes comments or just makes it obvious. Quick peek? Totally fine and normal. Staring and drooling? Creepy. Regardless of gender
As humans. We're basically programmed to pay attention to certain things. Two of those things are motion, and attractive features on other humans. This explains the glances and why sometimes you find yourself looking at someone without the intention to. However staring is not driven by this. That is either thr person was so tuned out they didn't realize they were staring or 100% directly on purpose. Exceptions should be made for staring in shock, like that time i was installing internet and the (admitedly a solid 9/10) wife waltzed out naked. I stared, but it was more the situation and my brain bluescreening than me intending to stare. I'd been blindsided by that. Also, i'm pretty sure she was trying to seduce me, but i'd already met her brick wall of a husband and i wasn't about to do that to the man, both out of common decency and the fact i didn't feel like finding out what it's like to be treated like a toothpaste tube... Anyhow, what i'm saying is: your instant reaction is instinct 90% of the time. It's the action *after* that that is intent.
Wholeheartedly agree. >Anyhow, what i'm saying is: your instant reaction is instinct 90% of the time. It's the action after that that is intent. This goes for a lot of life. I remember when training a lot of hate and bigotry out of myself this really came to mind. The initial reaction is a lot of knee-jerk that usually comes from your environment and does not dictate who you are. Correcting and reminding myself that those two men kissing not only doesn't affect me but is just love and no different from others. Grew up with republican, Christian, white grandparents so you can imagine what's been shoved in my head.
Yep. It's also why every *emotion* is valid, but your *response* to said emotions may not be. Example: buddy steals my $600 headphones. My emotions would likely be betrayal and anger, especially if i wasn't able to get them back. That is valid. Going over to his house, beating his ass until i get answers or my headphones back, and then a bit more because he had the gall to steal from me? Definately *not* a valid response. The valid response would be to demand them back, and take it up legally. Maybe a few posts to social media warning about said theivary, but not inflicting bodily harm over a posession.
It happened to my coworker as well. Every time she would get in trouble for her top I would wear a much lower cut one the next day and make sure I would talk to my manager multiple times that day. Crickets. The difference between us = boob size.
You might be wrong about who complained. I’m a (woman) engineering manager who got asked by HR to help out on a clothing complaint in a large engineering organisation about an extremely attractive younger woman who worked in admin and turned up looking like a model every day. As far as I’m aware, the women in the department loved her outfits. (It probably helped that she was lovely and kind, and dumb as a post…). Her clothing was always workplace appropriate and tasteful, just frequently formfitting and a tiny bit fashion-forward. There were many complaints, all from men, and hr only stepped in when a guy claimed she wasn’t wearing underwear and he could see “everything” on the stairs one day. He would have had a heart attack if that was true. Even hr didn’t know how to deal with the complaints as she was, in their words, the only appropriately (business professionally) dressed person in the building. Don’t assume that all men ‘drool’ over attractive women, and that only women would be jealous enough to complain. (In fact, that’s a sentiment that feels rather something-ist; someone else can decide if it’s misogynistic or another -ist).
True. There was an uber-religious dad in our school's PTA, and any time any woman in his vicinity wasn’t dressed like a nun or tried to chat with him like a normal person, he’d start rambling about his wonderful wife. It took us all a while to catch on, but it seemed like he felt immensely guilty whenever he felt things shifting in his boxers, so he'd have to refocus his brain on his wife, and make subtly critical comments about the offending woman later to affirm to himself that she was to blame for his impure thoughts. It was damned annoying for the rest of us.
We had an engineering manager that was a prude like this and made sure everyone knew it. He even forced people to mold to his wishes when we had after hours or weekend poker games and such. He was eventually arrested for exposing himself to young girls at Home Depot.
\*snorts in pitch black humor\* Of course he did.
Oh wow. To my knowledge, this guy was generally decent, but when his wife died shortly after giving birth to their *twelfth baby*, he kept offering to let my teenaged daughters visit when I got busy with a health issue. I really hope it was to help him with housekeeping stuff/babysitting, but it creeped me out.
> a guy claimed she wasn’t wearing underwear and he could see “everything” on the stairs one day He needs to get his head out of his fantasies and into reality.
I once worked with a young woman who wrote a sleeveless top to the office. It was a fairly casual dress code there. She came to me one day and asked if I thought her outfit was inappropriate. I had no idea what she was talking about. Her (female) supervisor had told her that her top wasn't appropriate. I'm betting that it was just that the young woman had a good figure. It must feel absolutely awful to be told you're dressing inappropriately when you think you're really trying hard to fit into the company culture.
That was my first thought. The more well endowed always get shit for how they look. This is absolutely harassment.
This was my last 2 years of high school, constantly in trouble for wearing regular shirts that were "too tight". They were only tight in my chest (and not overly so) because I dared to go through puberty and end up well-endowed.
Oh I hate when women can't leave their boobs at home. What do they think an office is?
I was coming in here to say, the very next person she needs to speak to is an employment attorney. This is almost the definition of sexual harassment and I'd bet half my lands and half my cattle that she's got a solid case.
I concur.
Disgusting. She should have just popped her boobs off in the morning, dressed *appropriately* for work, and then she could always have popped them back on after work if she needed to have boobs so badly!!!!
Yeah I was thinking she should take that recording to a lawyer along with looking for a new job.
“ your butt is too accentuated* in those heels and jeans!” “So this is about how my body looks?” “ uuuhhh of course not”
Extenuated is a great malapropism there
Learned a new word today! Malapropism, makes me feel very smart :) (Essentially when you have two similar sounding words and use the incorrect one, sometimes to humorous effect)
lol, I used dictation and didn’t grammar check, Siri is the worst at transcription sometimes
They want an old frumpy lady as receptionist, they should have hired an old frumpy lady.
But they don't *really* want a frumpy lady. They *want* a young attractive lady to look nice for when they get people coming in. They just feel attacked *because* she's attractive; it makes them feel bad about either their own bodies or that they *notice* hers(depending on the gender of the person involved).
The really mind boggling part is OOP says no ome even comes in! Who do they want that orange blouse to impress?!
The only thing I would question is she says she also makes YouTube videos for them. If that’s something she does often then I could see a bit them wanting the face of the company to look a certain way. But if so that is definitely something that needed to be outlined properly and is much different from everyday wear which is what seems to be the problem.
As soon as I started reading it I just assumed she was attractive and they didn't like it.
EXACTLY!!! I bet most don’t give a crap but there’s a few there that don’t like it probably cause they used to be the best looking. I mean at her young age? And everyone’s older and dresses like crap? Def this.
What I don't understand is how dark colours are distracting. Usually, it's the other way around, you'll rarely see professionals dressed in bright colours with patterns. Like you said it's about her body and they want her to look like a clown!
They are grasping at any straw they can. No idea what they are playing at, but if I were OOP I would assume it was a way to fire me. Putting my professional hat on all professional-like? The place is poorly run. They went about her dress code nonsense all wrong. And they are targeting someone they hired for reception who now does three or four jobs on top of it. The left hand doesn’t know what the right hand is doing, as the expression goes.
>I would assume it was a way to fire me. Or it's a way to keep her paid far less than she worth. She's already lost out on her entire yearly raise once because her turtleneck was too revealing.
She needs to start looking for a lawyer. Depending on her area, random guess of settlement would be equivalent to about 6-24 months of salary. Lawyer will take a third. Most businesses with a decent lawyer would look at the evidence, especially the voice recording, and immediately recommend payout.
Have you ever actually gone against your employer for legal issues? Because it is nowhere near as easy as you make it out to be. It can often be a long, emotionally difficult process with an uncertain payout. Hell, even finding a lawyer isn't easy. I HAVE GONE through it, I speak from experience and it's not something I would ever blithely recommend -- yes, I won in my case BUT knowing what I know now, I likely would not put myself through it again. In OP's case, I would get myself another job first *then* go to a lawyer and have them write a demand letter to my prior employer.
Yes, I did. I pissed off the CEO of a Fortune 50 company to the point where he demanded I be fired, and their legal department overruled him. Because they knew I'd pick up the phone and notify DDTC. Apologies, I assumed OOP would be looking for another job. I concur you want to find another job and then file the suit. I wouldn't wait to find the lawyer, but I would delay filing until I was gone.
I had this experience too, totally policing my body and not the clothes. Except the difference for me was that they were policing me because I was fat, not because I was hot. After I got my beauty license, I was working at a lash salon, and I was told BY THE OWNER that the dress code was incredibly casual. "Just be fashionable and comfortable", were her words, given that the work involved hours of sitting in one spot in an attic room. The other girls all wore leggings, ripped jeans, off the shoulder graphic tees with rips in them. Totally alt grunge looking stuff. For my first month, I wore more dressy clothes, like blouses with a cardigan and long maxi dresses. But then one day I wore a t-shirt I got from a van Gogh exhibit (a simple unisex crew neck) with a skirt, and my boss came to me and informed me that I needed to go home and change because I looked 'unprofessional'. She said I looked like I had just 'thrown on an outfit', while the girl next to me had a fucking Misfits t-shirt on with ripped jean shorts. The difference between us? She was super thin, and I wasn't. A fat woman can wear literally the same outfit as a thin person, but because they're fat, people will see it as 'frumpy' or 'unprofessional', but not view the thin person in the same way.
Had the same thing with one of my former managers. She'd get in a snit about people (*ahem* women) not looking "professional" by wearing hoodies, etc. on (internal) calls when working from home, but if you went into the office that was literally what everybody else was wearing. Wore jeans and a loose tshirt to the office for a team lunch once and the fucking look on her face was like I'd stepped in dog shit. She also conveniently fired the only two fat women on her team for "performance issues". Total coincidence I swear.
She is looking for a new job. But what she should be doing is also consulting a lawyer to see if they will take the case on contingency with what she already has documented, get official copies of her reviews. Then see if they can get a W for a harassment and I guess... discrimination? It sounds like they are targeting her cause she is young woman - while I think you cant discriminate due to youth (you can, I just unsure if its legally recognized), you certainly can't cause shes a woman. This seems like some sort of mild settlement in her favour should be a good outcome. "We can extend your hours for more pay", assholes PAY OOP more cause she is DOING more. Her duties exceed the role of reception. It's a bloody admin role and it sounds like they have her doing technical duties for free.
I would've ended the meeting, packed my bags and left. Listen to their actions not their words
Same. But at 24 I surely was like OOP: eager to do a good job and willing to snap my back doing it.
I’m not particularly litigious, I’ve let a couple of things go in my life that I could have gone to court over. I would probably go the “find a new job” route if I were in OOP’s shoes. But part of me hopes she decides to lawyer up because she could almost definitely find someone on contingency given the slam dunk evidence the employer was stupid enough to provide.
I am as confused as OOP over what the flying hell she is supposed to wear.
A nun’s habit of course. But you know, casually- so with bright colors and frills.
don't forget the floral print but no other patterns.
No polka dotted pants because they are 'distracting'.
So the Chattering Order of St. Beryl? Sister Mary Loquacious would have had their heads spinning around on their necks within weeks, days maybe. It would be fun to watch.
I love finding Good Omens references out in the wild!
Ah, a wild Good Omen's reference makes its entrance...
A hot pink one!
From Shein.
I’m not only confused over what OP is supposed to wear, I’m now confused over what business casual is at all. Are black jeans business casual?? I am not directing any snark to OP with this I just want to wear them if this IS a generally accepted standard.
It depends on the organisation and what they’re worn with. But they definitely can be. Smart, dark black jeans (not ripped/faded/distressed) with a top or blouse and jacket would absolutely be considered smart casual/business casual in most places.
I know they said the office/bosses were mostly POC, but my mind immediately went to [this lady](https://images.app.goo.gl/TL9m8Eusru4hAEyZ9) when she started describing stuff. That look but with gaudy bright colors.
A federal civil rights attorney would be a good start, as a light jacket. Many offices are cold, especially if you have to crawl around on a tile floor changing soap dispensers.
From what I read she simply has taste and style. She's a distraction exactly because she dresses well. It sounds like she deliberately matches her clothes into entire outfits (which imho is a good thing), and it works. Every time they asked her to correct, she dressed up a little. They should have told her to dress down. They want her to look a bit more boring. To mismatch clothes so they don't make an outfit.
But they seemed to have a problem with dark colours, which are typically more conservative and sombre? It seemed to be very mixed messages.
She looks too good in them.
To some people, dark colors denote sexiness. Ask your mom or grandma if they had to be a certain age before they wore black because it was too "grown up."
But they also don't like her jeans. Not all jeans. *Her* jeans. Because not having pockets completely changes the material they're made from. She should take those pictures and the recording straight to a lawyer.
It’s not the clothes! It’s because she looks hot.
Yeah this is wild. I feel like they just don't like the way she looks and can't really articulate it.
Scrubs 3 sizes too big.
>we don't have an HR department... The most crimson of red flags.
that's when you know there's definately not going to be a happy ending. Her recording the meeting gave me a little bit of hope, but no.
She was baller in how she prepared and got consent to record it. I hope she finds something better quickly.
There's always the EEOC if it's in the US.
If I found out a job has no HR, I'm leaving right on spot.
Its normal for small businesses not to have it
A sales office for Credit Card machines? With an active employee count and the capability to throw big Christmas/Office parties? That is not a small office. The tech startup I work for has 8 people and even our CEO is just starting to hire an outsourced HR company since our startup went from 5 to 8 people. No excuses for not having an HR dept anymore. Outsourced HR services are a thing.
My workplace - a one doctor owned veterinary hospital - had no formal HR since its conception 30 years ago. Which is pretty typical for veterinary clinics, unless it’s a corporate owned practice. And even we got a formal HR department about 3 years ago. If we felt the need for it, then this business sure as shit should have had one. Especially now-a-days. Employees are much more educated about the labor laws and their rights as an employee than they were 20 years ago. You would think that the company would want an HR to protect themselves. I mean, technically HR is there to protect *the company*…usually from itself and the horrible decisions made by the powers that be. I hope OOP takes her recording to the labor regulating agency in her area. I have a feeling they would be very interested in what she had to say, and what was on that recording.
I worked for a company that had 5 satellite locations and had no HR. But this whole thing have me terrible flashbacks to how my corporate dress was handled. Not at that company, but I worked for a startup M&A firm, and because I also wore dark colors, my suit dresses were not good enough. I'd wear a pinstriped long skirt and get shit for it. Wore a dark suit, nope. I was told at another company that had a problem with my dress boots, and was told to get some nice heels. So even though there was no HR at this last company, nothing I wore there was out of line. I had the most tattoos there, but a few people did have visible ones. This was back in 2008, and females with tattoos on arms were not quite as common, so it was nice to wear a short sleeved shirt again. I know what OP is feeling, and it's an icky feeling to just constantly be judged on clothing
OOP said 50 people, but the receptionist is doing maintenance and IT?
I worked for a business that is family owned and been around for decades. No HR. You brought all your problems to the manager. Looking back, yikes. Still loved it there, probably because I never pissed off the manager. Edit: We also threw Christmas parties.
In Germany every business that has at least 5 workers kann have HR. Management can't do anything about it if the workers want to have one they are by law allowed to vote for HR. I'm pretty sure almost every business has an HR here.
I worked for a small startup and while we didn’t technically have an HR department, our accounts department handled HR affairs and if something came up of concern we would use an external HR firm. It’s really not an excuse
A smart small business will outsource HR matters to a 3rd party or at least have someone trained with split responsibilities. Just because there's not 40 hours of work per week doesn't mean you can just ignore it.
HR is not about protecting you, it is about protecting the company. The only thing that would've been different is that HR would've released new dress codes in advance and not allowed the meeting to be recorded.
I’m sorry but you should be looking for jobs with a UNION!!! Not HR. HR IS ONLY THERE FOR MANAGEMENT!
aside from the ywca, i’ve never been at a nonprofit with a HR, and that’s most of my work history
I am completely baffled as to what back pockets or the lack thereof has to do with the appropriateness of jeans. Back pockets don't cover anything that isn't already covered. Also, most professional places I've worked would see dark colours as way more professional than bright ones. These people have a very odd idea of professional clothing. The only charitable reading of the situation is that they want OOP to project a certain image but are incapable of describing to her exactly what that image is - apart from "inviting", which, hello, I thought they didn't want her to feel sexualised? Being told to dress "inviting" is totally sexualizing her! I'm inclined to an uncharitable reading. Someone doesn't like OOP and wants to take her down a peg by holding her to impossible, ever-changing, not clearly articulated standards.
What I really want to know is who is she supposed to look “inviting” to? She says in the beginning of the first post that their office is not public facing, nor do they have industry clientele who come in— their only visitors are interviewees. So who is her dress code catering to???? She’s not doing the interviews, only answering the phone and sending people into the conference rooms. Why do they have a “front” and “back” of the office if they don’t have regular visitors???
Yeah, this is what stood out to me too! Honestly it sounds like someone higher-up wants her to dress in a specific way for their own personal pleasure, which... EW.
The executive assistant wants her to copycat themselves, because they feel threatened by OOP’s different style and appearance. Meanwhile, since OOP answers to several different people, they’ve all signed onto this idea that it’s okay to micromanage her appearance, and they also have different opinions about it. Is dressing dark sexy or does it come across as harsh or forbidding? Some think one, some think the other, none of them realize that they’re all crossing a big line that they need to step back over.
Totally agree that the 64 year old executive assistant thinks that OP has no sense of professionalism just because she dresses slightly differently than how she wants her to. ALSO in what world is a turtleneck inappropriate for work but fucking ripped jeans are ok?? I’m so angry for this girl.
This is it
I noticed that they seem to be filming her for marketing work. Could that be it?
If it was just the marketing videos, they could have supplied some tops and accessories for her to wear specifically when recording them. No need to require her to maintain some 'video-ready" look all the time. The front / back office part was also a bit BS. She said they don't have customers/clients appear at the office. There was no real need to distinguish between her and everyone else. Except as a way to hold her to a separate standard. If it had been a real legit distinction, it would have been there from day 1, considering they did have a different receptionist before her. I think most of this was coming from the EA. That the EA was jealous and had it out for her. If the EA hadn't had an issue with her, I suspect that this wouldn't have gone anywhere near as far as it did. I'll even hazard that the Christmas gift incident was not an "Oops". That the EA had said something to ensure the other three bosses wouldn't give her anything. Then deliberately waited and "realized the mistake" later to knock OOPs spirits down a peg or two. OOP should have been pushing for specific feedback on what she needed to change and how it was out of dress code all along. To operate on the principle "If you can't give specific, actionable feedback, I'm going to assume that you have no valid criticisms." It would have probably ended up somewhere akin to where things stand now. But it would have helped it to happen sooner. Standing up for herself from the start might have also triggered them into do something stupid... well, more stupid than the stuff they said in that meeting. They were walking themselves a good long way down the road to a harrassment lawsuit there.
> The only charitable reading of the situation is that they want OOP to project a certain image but are incapable of describing to her exactly what that image is - apart from "inviting", which, hello, I thought they didn't want her to feel sexualised? Being told to dress "inviting" is totally sexualizing her! It's also obviously super sexist, super gendered criticism. She offered to do SO MUCH to alter her appearance and none of it was ever good enough. Would they be this nit picky, over and over, about the clothes (and body!!) of a male receptionist? Tell him he has to wear a shirt long enough to cover his crotch even in dress pants, tell him he looks "chubby" in certain outfits, tell him to wear a gold watch instead of a silver watch, nit pick to the point that he has to wear specific color schemes and shirt patterns that are more "inviting?" No, of course they wouldn't. But so many people have this weird sense of ownership of how women look and present themselves. If this job really needs a receptionists to essentially wear a work uniform, then they need to (1) spell out EXACTLY what that uniform is so that OP isn't constantly playing an expensive guessing game, (2) pay her enough to afford the exact work uniform, and (3) do it in a way that isn't gendered/sexist and doesn't put excessive hardship on her just because she's a woman.
I can guarantee places like this wouldn’t hire a male receptionist in the first place.
I think you're right. I saw this >I am the youngest woman here and I feel like they think they can push me around about things that don't affect my job performance. and was like *ding-ding-ding!*
I think "denim pants with no back pockets" -> "we can extrapolate too much of what your naked butt might look like". Which is v much a problem with the viewer, imo. I've also had jobs where "back pockets" = casual pants, not business casual. And a deli job where all pockets were forbidden (apparently something to do with food contamination risk whenever you take stuff out of your pockets? Probably people didn't de-glove and de-glove consistently enough).
I’ve worn women’s jeans all my adult life, and I can confidently say that back pockets on women’s boot cut jeans do not in any way conceal the visual shape of the butt beneath them.
She made bosses peepee a bit too happy. He thought if she dressed like an old lady, it wouldn't be that bad.
I think you’re spot on. I think Linda the executive has been whispering in ears. Me thinks sour grapes of body envy.
I actually think the back pockets are what differentiates between more casual jeans and slacks. The patch pockets on the butt are generally deemed to be more casual. So OOP is emphasizing that these were denim slacks and not casual pants.
I think I know what is going on here. OP has a slightly alternative style that she has managed to incorporate into her work wear in a way that does not break the dress code but makes them all uncomfortable. I did this as well as a working Goth in the 80s and 90s. She is wearing a lot of dark colours, silver jewelry, I bet her makeup is subtly alternative (maybe a moderate cat eye or a more sculptural brow or a dark lip) and is reading edgy in a way they don’t like or find challenging. She just being herself and they don’t like it. If she started wearing powder blue blouses and mom slacks they would be ok, but I bet a 50’s style sweater set and a full skirt with flat shoes and a scarf they still wouldn’t like. They don’t want any personality.
The funny thing about Jean pockets is…. It’s the size, shape, design, placement, etc of the rear pockets that often define the shape of a behind. Certain shapes accentuate, certain shapes elongate, etc. Maybe they just don’t like the fact that if they get caught looking they can’t say they were just looking at the rhinestones on her butt. 🙄
When I was in high school, the private school I attended banned girls from wearing pants with back pockets because back pockets drew attention to our butts. The ban did not extend to boys. Dress code culture is so toxic.
I’m pretty sure, deep down, its because back pockets make it harder to distinguish the presence or absence of underwear seams. :/
"We want you to look inviting." "Noooo, not like that, that's inappropriate."
Matronly. Motherly. Midwestern soccer mom in the 80s. That kind of inviting.
Yes I'm just, confused. They want her to be more attractive, but less attention catching, more womanly, but less sexy.... ?
Warm, supportive, nonthreatening. Basically they want a 24yo to come across as middle-aged. Which isn’t going to happen, no matter how many bright flowered blouses the EA pushes on her.
This whole thing is just so stupid. This workplace, entirely, is borderline ridiculous and filled with literally some of the dumbest people ever. OP should considered hiring an employment lawyer if possible.
That was my thought. She has a recording of the meeting to bring to them, too!
And get compensation for the wasted money on buying random clothing because these people are weird as. I would have walked. She’s still young (I don’t think it mentioned where she lives - alone, home?). Wouldn’t put up with that nonsense. I would just bail.
Speaking of compensation. . . If they are telling her she has to adhere to a different handbook/dress code than the rest of the employees, she should definitely check in with labor lawyer. Some places that put that much emphasis on appearances for certain jobs (Hooters, casinos, underwear coffee shops) actually have to classify those positions as modeling jobs. So a barista having to be easy on the eyes is a model first, coffee maker second. As a model, there may be different forms of compensation that the company needs to address.
My company is very small. Like about ten employees. We do not have an HR. I was harassed at work by an outside contractor. I told my boss about it and she literally turned bright red and buried her face in her hands. The things he said to me were pretty graphic and my boss is very Christian. She was embarrassed and uncomfortable. Which in turn made me uncomfortable and embarrassed. It was the most juvenile reaction I've seen in person from a 40 year old woman. She wasn't embarrassed for me, she was embarrassed by the verbiage because I told her he asked about my wife's breasts and vagina (we are a lesbian couple. It was not a fun convo). The whole thing was really upsetting and then really awkward. I wasn't expecting that reaction. It was like talking to someone who is 10 years old. She has 3 children.
Did she handle it?
Lol no. I took a couple of days off and then came back. He was there for another week. I don't want to give too many details but he was teaching my company something new and his presence was required. The whole situation was really shitty. I did totally ice him out and he ended up pseudo apologizing to me. I laid into him a bit and that was it. But at least I've not seen him since and this was years ago
That's terrible! I'm sorry you went thru that.
Where I live, you can usually get a consult for free… it’s a starting point
OOP needs to take that recording to an employment attorney. At which point she can see for herself the Dollar Sign Eyes on that attorney's face when they realize just *how badly* her employers fucked up.
Not to mention document these in incidents. The one where they criticized her weight cannot be proven, but it is insane. There is a clear pattern of harassment.
100% agree
Employment attorney: SLAM DUNK, I'll take your case!
They just want a young woman to mold and control, nothing else. She did a great job advocating for herself in that meeting, even if they didn't hear her. I hope she finds a better job and can toss those ugly clothes they bought her in the bin very soon.
If I feel this way, it's her fault and she must be punished for it
I mean, they left the office that day with a TON of evidence, just go get a lawyer. Hand them the dress code, the photos and the recorded meeting. Seems like obvious discrimination to me.
Damn! I feel for OP! I had a very similar scenario at one of my hospital jobs.. I was part of a union though, so my union rep was in the meeting with me, and I asked what exactly the issue was and a male manager flat out said “your chest” I said oh, so this is a sexual harassment thing then … The fact that OP said they said it’s her body/the way her body looks- could get her higher ups in a lot of trouble (at least in Canada)
This is 100% a know your place little woman thing. I worked in a company with similar owners and way way too much of the role was being called into an office to be talked down to. Like they'd say they were disappointed and I'd go through a list like... is my work wrong? Is my work late? Am I rude? And they'd just get increasingly hysterical about how that wasn't the point and some invisible, unidentifiable thing just *wasn't okay*, What they wanted, what they were getting at was that they'd headhunted me and I had been very clear that I can only work certain hours and be in the office certain days because I have a kid. And they smiled, nodded, said it was fine. And then started doing the "disappointed" thing. "It would be nice if...." nah I told you before you hired me and you gave every impression of being able to read. So I lined up another job and quit after a few weeks. My manager straight up didn't speak to me but it wasn't the punishment she hoped it was. I'd advise OOP to leave. All they'll do is load her up with as much low value work as they can get away with and use her as a whipping boy whenever their own stupid choices contradict each other. Like you can't dress like a receptionist and a cleaner at the same time - but that's going to become your fault. Because they can't possibly accept it's theirs.
Someone just set themselves up for a lawsuit. Take that recording to an attorney and get enough money to not worry about working for a bit.
"Your body is distracting." Now, I am a straight man at a workplace with a woman majority. And yet, I manage to work with people I find attractive without distraction. Because, you know, I am an adult and thus able to control myself without issue. Something, mind you, I mastered as a literal child.
This (picture, recording and all the Bull shit) is time for an attorney to look at.
I would say (while looking for another job) that if they want me to look a certain way, they can supply ALL the outfits I would need. Much like a uniform. Because that is what they request she wears. Most companies get corporate wear for their customer facing personnel. Then OOP wouldn't wonder what to wear, wouldn't spend more money, and her bosses will be satisfied. And she should still look for another job.
I bet if OOP wrote up the dress code that was outlined to her, and then took it to an employment lawyer, they would be able to walk out with a fat paycheck.
Wow, a beautiful woman being punished for being beautiful?! It’s so, so, so, so, SO much more likely than you think. 🙃😭
This right here. Either it's jealously or one of those owners is attracted to her.
the good old "It's HER fault I have inappropriate thoughts!"
I hope she gets out of there soon. I would go crazy at a place like that
I was a minister for 6 years and my first church that I worked in was lovely but for a while there was an unspoken opinion about my clothes. I don't dress dumpy and I didn't then either. I would wear the typical skirts and dresses to church on Sundays, but when I was in office, it was business casual. I came one from the church one day and there was a box of clothing on my doorstep. I was like okay...opened it up and it was all second hand women's clothing. I don't mind second hand, my mom bought our clothes a lot from thrift shops. But these were all elderly lady type clothing, two sizes to small, and half of them were stained. I just threw them in the box and tossed them. Then almost a year later, I was called into the pastor's office to have a discussion. At the time I had an outfit I liked to wear. It was a pink cardigan, long jean skirt, and a white short sleeve shirt/blouse underneath. He called me in to the office to tell me that my bare arms were making men stumble. I don't need you or anyone to police my body or my clothes. I know what is appropriate, i know that i don't look gross or slutty, and if you can't police your own body because of what I'm wearing, it's more of a you problem than it is a me problem.
I believe it was Jesus that told us if your eye causes you to sin you should pluck it out and throw it away.
Call a lawyer!! Poor op, I hope she gets out of there fast!
Her basically being the only young white woman there is relevant AF. A lot of conservative cultures are gross and over sexualize white women specifically. She needs a new job. They'll never respect her.
There's something really telling in the "yeah it's wrong, you're just not getting it and it's definitely your fault, here's a million contradictory reasons why... so anyway you wanna work more hours?"
She needs to talk to an employment attorney about an EEOC complaint and harassment/hostile work environment.
I'm getting the impression that one of the owners? CEOs? someone high-up at least wants OOP to wear some very specific things for their own entertainment. Which of course they can't come right out and say "Hey OOP, play doll for this grown ass man so he can get his rocks off or whatever".
Yeah fuck that noise. I hope OOP gets out of there quickly. In a perfect world I'd love to see them scared out of their wits by a lawsuit, but that seems unlikely. I just hope OOP gets a better job!
They said she looked chubby?? The whole thing is ick and these people are hugely inappropriate. I hope she finds a different job at a better workplace stat.
You want me to dress like that? Fine. You'll have to find someone to do all the stuff I did when I wasn't sitting down.
Interesting I get the impression OOP wears corporate goth /a tiny Abby sciuto from NCIS and the business has an issue with goth being evil or like, satanic
This executive assistant, Linda, is the source of all this. She is 100% jealous, even if she doesn't consciously realize it. Any women who disagree with me are just fortunate not to have experienced it. And yes, men do cause problems for attractive young women too, no matter what they wear.
It’s good we have laws etc that prevent against sexual harassment, but a unintended side effect is that every company just says “we are inclusive “ etc because they don’t want to be openly flaunting employment law, but a lot of the times it’s BS.
Yeah there’s always a bunch of traps on those fucking applications too that are meant to weed out disabled people. Ever wonder why a completely non-physical job (like a desk job) “requires” you to lift 40-50 lbs? Well wonder no more!
The first time I hired for my team i crossed off the lift restriction and the college degree description from the job spec. HR tried to talk me into putting it back in because “it’s standard”. I just asked “Why?”
These comments. JFC. It’s so NAIVE to think an HR department would save the day. HR is nothing but a management tool. They protect management / the company. They do not protect the average employee. They quite literally spend time thinking up ways to break labour laws without leaving a shred of concrete proof. They’re architects of: you misunderstood, we didn’t know, the problem is you, he’s not that kind of man, you’re not sufficiently resilient, I’m sorry you’re just not a good fit, blah blah blah blah blah.
This is just plain harassment.
Why do I feel like this situation is a "pick on the pretty young girl because we feel insecure about ourselves while exploiting her in any way we can" situation?
She doesn't need a new wardrobe, she needs an attorney. We call this sexual harassment.
This is exactly how my first job went. I was a receptionist who was constant told I was dressed inappropriately despite wearing very normal clothing. A skirt that went down to the floor wasn't professional because it was too bright. Wearing scarves drew too much attention to my chest. If I reached for something and my stomach showed I was distracting the rest of the team. I don't show cleavage, my dresses go to my knees, and I'm not a flirty person (I don't think I'd be able to flirt if I tried). Once I wore a dress and someone higher up than me said "wow, if I had your body I'd never have the confidence to wear that". Turns out our Director was a massive pervert who kept blaming me for his sexual harassment of other employees. I was 22 and he eventuality thought I was desperate enough to keep my job that I'd sleep with him - nope! Straight to HR. They did nothing until I got the legal department involved. Dress codes need to apply to everyone or to no one. People like OOPs boss or my previous director are the absolute worst. So glad my current job (as an EA) allows me to dress like a normal person without sexualizing me or making me uncomfortable
Black shoes. Black slacks. Black shirt. Every day.
This company and the leadership is a lawsuit waiting to happen.
Who wants to bet she’s busty? This reeks of all that bullshit.
That meeting was sexual harassment. You have it recorded. Go to an attorney. Ask for a years severance plus $$$$.
Paging Alison Green at Ask a Manager. She'd be incandescent with rage at this.
Goodness. If I were this woman, I’d wear khakis and a red polo every single day like a target employee
Nobody polices women's clothing more than other women.
I would be suing this company!
I’m guessing the women showing cleavage and wearing ripped jeans are older/less attractive than OP. It sounds like the EA and others want the OP to look frumpy so they don’t feel older and less attractive.
She should start talking to an attorney.
I was once told by a conservative boss that my attire wasn't overly suitable.... so I took myself off to the opp shop/Goodwill and spent about $15-20 on 3-4 shirts and a couple of pairs of pants. Sure the tops were more appropriate for a woman about 30 years older than me and may have been on the larger size.... I've got a vague recollection of my boss kinda being a little surprised at my outfits but they were not inappropriate and it was never mentioned again. I wore a combination of those outfits for a good year or two..... I don't actually know what the issue was. The other women in the office probably wore more 'fitted' clothing and maybe more expensive... but I'm someone that hates fitted clothing and likes everything loose. My size was very similar to the others with a BMI around 20 for all of us.
CALL A LAWYER
Yeah, they’re absolutely sexualising and harrassing her for her body. I hope she finds a new job soon.
OPs got them saying they are holding her to a different standard and commenting on her body on tape. Time for a sexual harassment complaint to the state/feds.
>”I guess I’m just not cut out for corporate America” If one person makes up your entire HR department (here the EA), you are NOT in corporate America.
She needs to tell them that any criticism of her attire needs to be specific and in writing. See how fast they stop.
This is employment lawyer territory and the fact she has it all on voice recording too. She could sue and own the company by the end of it.
Tell them you are filing a complaint with EEOC... You Would WIN....Also look into hiring a lawyer that deals with job discrimination....
I would use the same outfit forever
Some countries/cultures wear bright colors like yellow and orange that I would never wear with my pale pink skin tone. I think it is a cultural difference that they keep trying to get you to wear bright colors instead of black or dark colors. I also grew up places where people didn't wear much color (for a while England 80s) you wear lots of black and gray (a little navy green or maroon) like a "normal" person (my normal based on my culture at the time). I physically cringed with my friend came to visit from the US with a pink coat!!! Dark colors or black mean something different to your bosses so they think you are bringing the wrong feel to the office as the receptionist. In a lot of US offices, there is nothing more professional than black. Black is classic. Black is classy. Black is universal. Black is dressy. Black dress pants are a professional woman's basic uniform. Navy is also basic and classic. Bright florals are fine, I suppose, but less professional. It is absolutely a cultural thing that they are telling you that bright colors like yellow and orange are inviting and black/dark is bad. I live in a US city with lots of immigrants. There is a color difference in what colors the women wear that is very pronounced based on where they are from. Skin tone and culture tie into that.
The men can't stop looking at her body which, in their minds, is her fault. "Your jeans don't have back pockets therefore I can see your butt easier. You need jeans with back pockets so I don't see your butt." Them stating they'd write a employee handbook with appropriate clothing just for her that would be different than the existing employee handbook is a red flag so large you can see it from space. OOP might want to talk to her state's labor board or her country's equivalent. Latinos and Middle Easterners ARE Caucasian just like you OOP, you're the same race.
Name and shame once you’ve gotten another job. Call recruiters in the field and tell them what you e experienced. What a train wreck of a company.
"They told me that I was misunderstanding this whole meeting and that was not what they were saying at all". Perception is reality and this is my reality!
I hope when he leaves, OOP stacks all the clothes they bought her into a neat pile on her desk with a note saying she's returning her uniform for the next person.
I really hope she sues. I hate the idea of just letting them get away with it, even if OP gets a fantastic job somewhere else
OOP should go to a lawyer with that recording, whoever got it would be grinning like a madman and salivating just thinking about all the money they were going to get from those AHs.
Just wear a mumu everyday. Lol
OP should really do a consultation with an employment attorney. I mean she’s getting harassed, pretty much daily it sounds like, for things like gold jewelry vs silver and how her butt looks in jeans, when all the while everything she’s wearing is entirely in keeping with the employee handbook.
Yeah I would of went strait to a lawyer after work by now. Thats a lawsuit waiting to happen.
My bet is that one of the partners of higher ups complained
I experienced some of this myself when working at a restaurant. I was the hostess, so I was expected to dress business casual, as was the dress code for our guests. Sometimes (like for holidays), I would dress up a bit but still kept it appropriate for the workplace. Typically I wore black dress pants/slacks, but I hate the feeling of wide-leg pants so I would choose the more modern, slim-cut pants that have been rising in popularity in the younger office crowd. They were still slacks. They were black. Fully covered my legs, no rips, no fading, no decorative buttons/closures. I would wear nice blouses or white button-ups with them, either tucked or untucked. And yet I was told by my manager that they were “unprofessional” and he couldn’t tell me what actually made them unprofessional. I asked a coworker, one of our servers, what she thought he meant by “unprofessional” and the only things she could think of were that they were tight-fitting and sometimes people could see a panty line through them. I tried my best to wear underwear that would prevent that (seamless, bikini cuts, etc), but it happened whether I wanted it to or not, even in the looser, wide-leg slacks I eventually bought. The kicker? My former manager is also my uncle. It was a family-owned restaurant (not ours, but friends’) so I got the job in my early twenties and worked there for about six years. My own uncle tried telling me my pants were inappropriate because they accentuated my ass. While every other female server was wearing tight-fitting Dickie work pants and never got any complaints. He wasn’t being gross, more like an over-protective dad, but it still left a sour taste in my mouth.
Hell yes get a lawyer with a specialization in employment laws.