#Do not comment on the original posts
Please read our [**sub rules**](https://www.reddit.com/r/BestofRedditorUpdates/wiki/subrules). Rule-breaking may result in a ban without notice.
If there is an issue with this post (flair, formatting, quality), reply to this comment or your comment may be removed in general discussion.
**CHECK FLAIR** For concluded-only updates, use the [CONCLUDED](https://www.reddit.com/r/BestofRedditorUpdates/search?sort=new&restrict_sr=on&q=flair%3ACONCLUDED) flair.
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/BestofRedditorUpdates) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Something tells me she hasn't just been burning through OOP's goodwill. She's likely been irritating the rest of the extended friend group in other ways, and OOP either didn't know or didn't realize how bad it had gotten.
that and the way anna felt like she still had to “earn” her spot….. if this “adoption” by katherine into the friend group happened in school days i’m sure all the rest of the group fully considers her their good friend and its just katherine that likes to capitalize on this insecurity.
Did... did I just read a BORU where (1) the central couple of the drama are polyam [edited from poly - see below for context] and (2) the outcome was that a sane conversation between rational adults cleared up the issue?
That's still only hypothetical. It seems they're making such decisions only after careful and deliberate consideration, which is really something we should all aspire to when it comes to big decisions no matter the subject.
This friend of theirs is the kind of person I worry about in my own poly relationship. I have no internal drama in my life but I've had plenty of people make drama around me for my unconventional choices.
Wonders happen, apparently!
But note that this works along the thing we always discuss when "poly" goes wrong in these posts: it was a mutual discussion in the beginning of the relationship and both of them went in knowing.
This. Poly with good communication seems to work fine from the outset, but once a relationship is already failing with bad communication, adding more stresses (more relationships, a baby, etc) doesn't ever seem to help.
It's not quite as bad - you aren't introducing an innocent child into the dysfunction who has no escape from it. At worst you might expose another adult to it, but they can always nope out.
So what I'm saying is, if your marriage is failing, don't have a baby, try opening it. Less harm will be done when the marriage inevitably blows up anyway.
You are introducing "innocent" adults who are expected to shoulder the expectation of being the part of the "solution" to someones failing relationship, and be okay with the inevitable ghosting when the other party freaks out about it.
It really, really does.
Never have a baby to save a relationship because it will crash and burn and now a child has to pay the price of fighting adults.
Never open a relationship that is already having problems or if anyone in it has any doubts about being poly.
And never, ever leave your partner thinking it will be the wake up call for them to change - leave because you want to leave, can no longer be in that relationship. But I have yet to see leaving cause Movie Moment of change and the relationship continue. Most of the time it makes the person left bitter and vindictive and that shocks the leaver who was ready for agreement to do therapy and reuniting. It's okay to leave if they won't do therapy, but leave expecting you _leaving_.
Also, if leaving is the thing that finally gets them to change, it means they were always capable of it, but your feelings were not enough of a reason for them to do it. Only when it negatively affected them were they willing to do it.
It's the same reason as to why you don't stay at a job that "finally" has the funds to give you a wage increase when you're quitting rather than when you actually earned it.
It might have the same vibes, but it also might work. I have aspergers so I've always felt like there is a big difference between emotional relationships and just sex.
My wife and I have had these conversations and I've told I just can't comprehend loving someone else as much as her or wanting any kind of relationship with another person, yet the idea of sleeping with other women is appealing.
She told me she only wanted to be in a monogamous relationship, but if it were to be open she couldn't handle hook ups, she would want a side boyfriend. I know I couldn't emotionally handle that (you wanting to scratch an physical itch I get, but I should be the only one to scratch that emotionally itch).
Once I realized I wouldn't be able control my insecurities over a situation like that we decided it wasn't a door we would ever open, which she prefers because she has only wanted a monogamous relationship. Through individual, couples therapy, and a late diagnosis she came to understand why my brain thinks the way it does.
Because she is a therapist herself she didn't just throw me to the curb for saying I desire to have sex with other women and need to not place myself in situations where I may potentially cheat (because if the opportunity is there I'm scared I might take it).
Most women wouldn't want to be with a guy like that, I feel extremely undeserving of her love and think she can do much better yet she still thinks she's the lucky one. She doesn't mind that my brain works differently, she see's the effort I put into us and I guess from hearing horror story after horror story from couples, she says my positives outweigh the negatives so vastly I'm worth the risk.
Yeah and it’s important to note that the decision happened “early in their relationship,” not before their relationship started. I keep hearing from Reddit that poly only works if you both come to the relationship already nonmonogamous… but, in my experience, things don’t always work that way.
Especially for a younger couple, there’s a first poly relationship, and sometimes you start out with the assumption of monogamy and then, through mutual discussion, decide together to explore another way. And it works.
I think the times it doesn’t work are usually when a couple who is the rocks decides to try it as a last-ditch effort to save things. That relationship was going to end anyway, and adding poly just made everything worse. Then they complain about their breakup on Reddit, and everyone assumes that their experience is the same as everyone’s.
Also sometimes poly relationships just don't work, just like sometimes monogamous relationships just don't work. People like to blame the relationship style as the cause though.
>Yeah and it’s important to note that the decision happened “early in their relationship,” not before their relationship started
This is correct. We were a couple of months in (5, I think) when that subject came up during a regular relationship check-in of ours. We kinda had those already before we opened up and asked each other about "so, are you happy in this relationship?" or "is there anything you're missing, want more of or want less?" and so on.
Anna suggested it and I had to turn this over in my head for a week or so. But, like, I knew she loved me and wanted to make this work, I knew she'd be okay if I said that I want to stay monogamous, too, and she is very good at leading constructive conversations because of her job anyways.
I'm always astounded that people think open relationships that started closed are destined to fail. Poly under duress is destined to fail. But if it's not that? You'll kinda get adept at having uncomfortable conversations in open relationships after a while and I wouldn't trust someone who can't handle the "are you okay with opening this?" talk to handle the "okay, what's gonna happen if a secondary accidentally gets pregnant/I get pregnant by a secondary?" talk either.
Totally! I think Reddit has a weird sense about nonmonogamy because they love those drama-filled stories where one partner asks to open up, and the other partner doesn’t really want to, and then it blows up in their faces. I like those stories too—they’re fun—but it’s not a good representation of how the nonmonogamy conversations go in healthy couples.
It usually ends up being more of a series of conversations at first: how we feel about monogamy, how we’d see a nonmonogamous relationship working, checking in to make sure the other person is still on board. I think if one person is super not into the idea, the other person would drop it.
My husband and I opened up 5 years in! That’s really not uncommon.
>I think Reddit has a weird sense about nonmonogamy because they love those drama-filled stories
Oh, definitely. Probably wouldn't have made this post if this hadn't been an unique case where I realized that...
* I probably have a very alien/different system of values to the "monogamous-normative" person at this point
* I needed input from that crowd to process how this is perceived from the majority that has that lens.
>It usually ends up being more of a series of conversations at first
Totally. I actually already had a relationship before this one where the topic of non-monogamy came up once or twice over the course of months. Even tho we were both curious we never pushed through and never processed the negative aspects before it ended for unconnected reasons.
Funnily enough I mentioned that very early when getting to know Anna and that might have contributed to her coming up with that idea later. So my "ENM/poly journey" might span several years and two relationships from the first "how do you feel about non-monogamy" conversation about it to actually opening up.
I kinda blame survivorship bias. When the relationship is fine, they don't want advice and we don't see them discuss the relationship on forums. So all we get are the times it goes wrong.
I keep saying this!! Nobody knows about all the totally boring non-drama polyamorous people because we're too busy sending each other memes on discord and going on Costco runs.
It's a very surprisingly mature poly relationship for Reddit. Most of the time one party wants to open up the relationship and they regret it later because it's the partner that gets all the attention.
we do, and most of the drama that happens in that sub happens for exactly the same reasons that bring most people to AITA. Poly people in good relationships don’t post on Reddit cos the “drama” usually goes something like ‘hey, i’m feeling a bit deprioritised right now because i haven’t seen you much this month. Can we schedule in some quality time?’ ‘I’m sorry, yes of course. How’s Wednesday?’ [fin]
Yep. Poly for almost 2 decades at this point. I'd say most of the poly-related problems are like this (logistical and/or stigma related) rather than actual relationship dysfunction. My partner and I also had a discussion early on and mutually decided that we either didn't like monogamy (me) or we just plain sucked at it (him). Our relationship has outlasted most of the relationships of the people who judged us and thought we'd never last because of our "lack of commitment".
Yeah a lot of people are not suited for that kind of relationship. I had a partner in college ask for an open relationship and then get upset because I had a date by the next week.
Yeah one of the reasons that I enjoy haunting the main poly subreddit is that the increased difficulty of the relationship style means the folks that make it work have really good relationship skills/practices/advice ... and the folks that aren't making it work can be entertaining trainwrecks, lol.
So true and the problem that leads to the majority of posts is the surprise introduction of poly to a non-poly person. These people work because they did it the right way - upfront before they got into a serious relationship.
I'll forever die on my little hill that asking for poly, NM, ENM, Open or other forms of relationships from your partner who you've been with for years is one of the worst things and a relationship killer.
I mean, I opened up with my husband after 5 years. It’s been 21 years total. We were just young and hadn’t tried nonmonogamy before so we didn’t come into the relationship already knowing we wanted it. But we arrived at the idea from a series of mutual discussions over a year or two, and then we went for it and it was fine.
Because of the nature of our relationship, we know other married couples who opened up that way: got together young, strong relationship, wanted to try something fun together. Swingers especially often start swinging very late into their relationships, like once the kids are at university, as a kind of fun retirement hobby. It doesn’t always crash and burn if you start out with monogamy and then decide to try something different later.
What’s different about many happy open marriages is that they are often kept pretty secret (all the open couples I know, including us, are outwardly monogamous-appearing) and so people just don’t think they exist. They also don’t complain about their breakups in Reddit, so Redditors tend to get a skewed view of how the “nonmonogamy discussion” works.
Obviously if your relationship is already strained, and one partner asks for nonmonogamy and the other is reluctant, that won’t work. But what if the relationship is fairly strong and both parties are receptive to the idea? That kind of discussion could happen anytime within a relationship and go well.
Thank you so much for sharing your perspective, I really appreciate you sharing this as it's given me a completely different perspective. It sounds like you have a fulfilling relationship where you both have open and honest dialogue and are on the same page about this. Thank you 💛
I mean I guess I shouldn't be surprised that Reddit self-selects for the trainwreck stories. It's nice to see a poly-adjacent drama where the actual people in the poly relationship aren't the cause of it, though, it restores a little of my faith that there are sensible human beings out there.
This is a normal poly relationship. You only hear about the trainwrecks on Reddit. How many stories about failed mono relationships do we see on here? Does anyone conclude that monogamy is at fault?
I mean, you do run into the occasional polyvangelist who tries to claim the problem is that everyone is naturally incapable of being monogamous. I recognize they don't represent the community as a whole, though.
For this sub it’s a surprise. The people in mature poly relationships usually aren’t posting on AITA or Relationship advice which is where you typically see the issues.
Well yeah, because people whose relationships didn’t work out complain about it on Reddit, and then it gets reshared because we all love the drama.
Posts like, “hey, I opened things up with my husband 15 years ago and everything was totally fine,” just don’t have the same juicy narrative.
That's because you don't hear about the ones that work, because, well, they work. They don't need to vent anywhere. They just talk about it sometimes and mostly within their own subs
Don't worry, the comments in the original thread (and this one!) are trying their hardest to make OP and his partner the bad guys and the friend the one who's right.
Reddit really doesn't like poly people, like I tend to get exasperated by them but when there's so much hate thrown their way for pretty much no reason it makes sense why they act the way they do.
I know some poly folks and while it doesn't always work out cleanly, it's got substantially better odds if it being poly happens at the beginning or early stages of the relationship like in this case, rather than "we have been monogamous for years, I want to try poly because what I really want is to break up with you but there's a reason why I'm not yet."
I was in a poly relationship for 13 years with zero drama, we remain best friends after the divorce, I'm friends with his fiancée, he's friends with my husband. You just don't read about situations like mine because there is nothing to write on Reddit about.
You also hear about Bob and Jane, and how it's good Jane has such a good friend in Teresa, they are so close Bob even puts up with the friends having sleepovers like they were in high school.
Or two couples are always hanging out together, and the kids are always at each other's house, and then when the kids are in college, you might hear about how the couples are poly.
There's a big difference between deciding together that you want to open things up and coming into the relationship with the understanding of being poly vs the really typical these days of "I just want permission to cheat and already have someone in mind while giving you permission to maybe find someone too" where the person also wears down their partners to agree when they have already said they were against it.
As a poly person in a relationship… I’m more confused by the crazy poly stories on here than the reverse.
There’s so much communication and reflection by nature of being non monogamous that it’s rare for things to go wrong in my experience. All the things couples fight about are already pre discussed in open relationships so that’s not much to misunderstand or be unclear about.
Yeah, they're monogamous relationships that have ended but for whatever reason the people in them don't want to break up so they "try poly"; then eventually one of them gets upset enough to decide to go through with the inevitable breakup.
Oh my God, this just made the married poly guy I dated years ago make sense
I (fresh from a breakup) thought 'oh great, you're already solidly getting relationship love/support, I'll be this great bonus thing.' And then it was a total emotional cluster fuck
I heard that they finally actually broke up a few years later. One needed a hip replacement, the other committed to doing the recovery care and then quickly realized they did not love them enough to do that level of care
>All the things couples fight about are already pre discussed in open relationships
That's just not true. The things around *jealousy* and what constitutes cheating and stuff sure, but couples fight about so, so *so* much more than that. Cleaning styles. Finances. Who gets to take the first shit in the morning. Parenting styles. What side of town to live on. The fact that they always say they never want a treat from the restaurant and then pick at yours because it looks good. That they always make you 5 minutes late everywhere you go. That perfume they absolutely love gives you a headache, you've told them twice, and they just sprayed it AGAIN right before you need to go use the bathroom. They want to install a pool but you know it'll tank the value of your home and eventually there will be maintenance associated. They want to go keto but you love bread and pasta and don't want to start cooking two dinners. You prefer warm vacations on the beach but they want to go *skiing.* Whether or not to get a second cat.
There is SO MUCH to disagree on that has nothing at all to do with whether you're poly or not. Truly a wealth of things.
I think it comes down to the fact that poly relationships are pretty rare, and the kind of people who post about relationship drama on reddit are usually not the best at communicating, so most poly relationships that get displayed on reddit are gonna be the shitshows
Also, most of them are a monogamous relationship that goes poly because the partner wants to cheat and it's better to do it openly. Normal poly relationships usually are poly from the very beginning. And besides, no one comes here to tell crazy stories about something that is working perfectly.
One of my favourite post genres is people in shitty relationships posting on r/polyamory about how their partner says they're poly now and all the poly people responding with "no that's not how this works they cheated on you and you deserve better" or, rarely, people posting about how they've decided they're poly and their SO is being a real ass about it just because initially they were technically cheating and the poly people responding with "that's not how this works and you suck".
Not poly, but I am autistic and since discovering this about myself I've been much more deliberate about communicating clearly and asking questions when I'm not sure I understand. It's astonishing how much clear and honest communication does to stop drama before it begins.
People in healthy poly or monogamous relationships aren't posting about them on Reddit, nor are people who are skilled at communication and reflection. It's mostly the same people whose monogamous relationships would be/were shitshows.
Yup. Honestly, as a polyam person, this is more common than all the drama that gets traction on reddit. Most of my friend group is polyam and very chill and communicative.
There are plenty of poly people out there with successful relationships that don't need to turn to Reddit. This only came to Reddit because someone outside their relationship doesn't have their shit together.
I know, right? I'm expecting to see spouses being defended from toxic MILs, golden child siblings becoming self-aware and reprimanding their parents, and Missing Missing Reasons parents having their Road to Damascus moment.
Not to call you in on this specifically, Captain, but to let everyone reading these comments know—
It's preferred to use "polyam" instead of "poly", as the latter is the standard abbreviation for Polynesian and using it for relationships makes it hard for those folks to find/access info about their own groups. (As noted in one of the sources below, it is primarily Polynesian diaspora making this request, not people living in Polynesian countries.)
It's a conversation that initially happened quite a while ago, at least in Internet Time™, and has sorta fallen to the wayside in light of larger discussions (ex. the multiple genocides happening worldwide atm) so I definitely don't blame anyone for not knowing about it! (It was also largely a Twitter/Tumblr conversation, so it just may have not made its way to Reddit as much.) As with anything, it takes some effort to change your usage of a term, but it would be very chill of y'all to make that effort with this one.
All that being said, if you don't want to / don't care / have some complaint or objection to the poly/polyam discussion... I'm not here to fight about it. Just making a polite request and providing info.
Sources for fact-checking:
https://aidamanduley.com/stop-saying-poly-when-you-mean-polyamorous/
https://polyampirat.es/explain/poly-vs-polyam/
Also noteworthy is for once an OOP describes realistic communication between friends. Rather than these friend groups where everyone knows everything about everyone instantly.
>hinge not throuple for the people that speak poly on here
Google:
Hinge: The shared partner between two people
“throuple,” or triad, which describes a certain kind of committed relationship structure between three people.
Thank you for the information. It took me a second to process the Hinge was Anna and not the person moving in, and I got really confused for a bit first, though 🤦♀️
I thought the exact same thing - that the new person would be the hinge - so don’t facepalm too hard, as it would seem that OOP isn’t the clearest of explainers.
>There's also apparently a very juicy reason why he gets to keep staying in the house but this update is long enough already.
I usually don't mind when karma farmers include plot hooks for the next update, but that's just obnoxious.
It's too late for that, as Katherine blew up Anna's phone... literally! So now she's going to jail and will be tried and imprisoned next week, and Anna had a restraining order request put in and granted on the same day
I feel like it’s one of those things that’s only juicy to those who actually know the people involved. If you know them, you can start to piece together the puzzle of “where did her money go” or have the information change your perspective on certain memories/events.
But to us strangers, it’s just meh.
Honestly the fact that the reason was revealed in a reasonably sized comment vs full blown update and as you mentioned probably way juicer for those who actually know the person/has seen their lifestyle makes it read more realistic to me.
He says she was living above her means and doesn’t know what she was spending her money on. It’s gotta be nails. Getting your nails done is absurdly expensive these days. Poor woman is going to have nasty cuticles now.
I’m still stuck on how it wasn’t really an affair because the husband fell out of love first, met someone else he did love, and then ended his marriage. Hmmm
I had something similar happen to me. My first marriage was sexless and I was trying to struggle through. I had closed down so much that I didn't remember how much I was missing. An attraction to a longtime family friend flared up for me in a big way. Nothing ever happened or even came close to happening between us, but that flare of attraction did two things for me. 1) it reminded me how much of myself I had lost over time in that marriage. 2) I realized how pathetic it was that it all happened because he was nice to me. He was simply kind to me in an everyday situation - and I realized how absolutely terrible my husband really was to me on a daily basis.
It gave me some of the courage I needed to leave my first husband, and I'm so very glad it happened.
> Actually one of my compromises I suggested when telling Anna "no" was to take in Katherine's hubby for a month on a purely functional "a bed to sleep" basis...
I understand the logic behind this idea, but it honestly would come off as a real asshole move, oddly enough.
I've always kept the view that open relationships, even if they are not for me, aren't some evil thingy you should hate on. I've been downvoted heavily on this sub and others if I ever just said anything in favor of them.
I feel so glad to see an open relationship with level headed people, but yet again, some people in these very comments have a hate boner for this couple.
To those people, would you have hated this couple if the friend already hated the guy for more common reasons like just accusations of isolation or the more acceptable one, if they were into bondage and the friend thought the girlfriend was being abused?
If not, then this is just as valid. And even if not, a no is a no. They didn't want that friend in their house, simple as that.
I‘ve noticed I get downvoted less when talking about polyam, but I think that’s cause there’s now a core of us who are polyamorous (like me) or who support healthy ENM even if it doesn’t work for them (like you). Hopefully that trend continues!
Edit to add: to all of you responding and either just upvoting or respectfully asking questions, thank you all so much for the support. It’s lovely to share all of this with y’all!
Ethical Non Monogamy. Includes the many types of polyamory, open relationships, relationship anarchy, etc. (I’m happy to talk about any of these if anyone has questions)
I would love to understand what is relationship anarchy - I’ve never heard of that term! I feel the desire to make some joke about my husband leaving his stuff in places I don’t like but I suspect it isn’t that ;).
My mom was literally just complaining to me earlier tonight about my dad doing that 😆
So, relationship anarchy means that every single relationship is valued independently of every other one. The difference between RA and other types of polyamory is that it includes platonic relationships. In RA we get to decide on a case by case basis what we want each relationship to look like (with full conversation and consent, we decide with the other person not just on our own), be it romantic, platonic, queer platonic, etc. As someone who’s relationship style is in fact relationship anarchy, I currently have a local romantic partner, a long distance queer platonic partner, some friends that I consider family, and many many friendships that mean the world to me and are as important to me as my partners.
I mean, yes. But it’s worth it. My relationships don’t look like what society expects, I’m nowhere on the relationship elevator, so we get to figure out each time what we want, what works for us. We get to renegotiate if things change, which can also make it easier to weather changes of feelings or circumstance for longer term relationship or at least more amicable breakups with more likelihood of staying friends.
Luckily my parents know and accept it, and in most of my friend groups a lot of us are polyam. So that helps a lot. And my Google calendar gets a LOT of use 😅
Edit: typo
What does a ‘queer platonic relationship’ entail? Is it a platonic friendship where both people are queer, and therefore act as a support network on maybe a more personal/sexual basis than they’d be able to act with a straight person?
a qpr is queer in the sense that it is different and outside the ordinary, not necessarily that all partners are queer. generally they fall somewhere between society's expectations of a friendship and a long-term romantic relationship, taking elements from both to build the perfect relationship for each situation. very similar to the relationship anarchy that the above commentor was describing. as far as I know, they're very similar except that relationship anarchy came out of poly spaces while qpr's were coined and first described by aromantic and asexual people.
This is a beautiful description! Going to add that a qpr is a single relationship (it may be monogamous, it might not be), while relationship anarchy is a relationship style that might include qprs as part of it.
For me personally, both my qpp (queer platonic partner) and I do happen to be queer, that‘s not required. In my case, my qpp and I are both on the aroace spectrum (as well as queer in other ways).
I have zero recollection how it started, but we started watching shows through discord together every Tuesday a few years ago. September of 2022 they told me they felt a stronger connection, and I had been trying to decide if I wanted to say something (I was worried that speaking up might ruin this wonderful thing we were already building). So I immediately said yes, me too, and together we decided QPR was perfect for us.
And so every single Tuesday we spend hours together watching things and talking. It’s become the eye of the storm of my life, the quiet moment of the week where it’s just the two of us and we can ignore the rest of the world.
30 years ago I learned that there was only one way to have a relationship and that no alternative was acceptable or possible. I thought I was pretty enlightened back then but I never would have considered I could live this way. It was like there was always a huge wall between the normal people and the weird people, and you had to pick a side.
Relationships are like diets. It's fine if you and me eat different food, and cheating on my diet might not count as cheating on yours. As long as everything is consenting and communicated between all parties. It's fine if a couple wants to be extremely prudish and it's fine if they participate in poly orgies. As long as the people in the couple both agree.
My bean sprouts and spinach hate it when I cheat and spend a night out with pizza!.. /s
But amen, I'm gonna use your example from now on to explain the frivolousness of these "crimes", when I next encounter someone who spouts some random anti-gay bs or something as well.
>I've always kept the view that open relationships, even if they are not for me, aren't some evil thingy you should hate on. I've been downvoted heavily on this sub and others if I ever just said anything in favor of them
I think it's because a lot of people don't understand the nature of non-traditional, non-monogamous relationships, so they're quick to disagree and ridicule. Especially through the lens of this and similar subs, because usually those relationships are presented as something that's created chaos and emotional infidelity that is ruining a relationship.
But, I don't get *that* way of thinking. Hell, I don't understand most non-traditional, non-monogamous relationships, despite knowing friends in them, yet I have nothing against them. They don't change me or my life or my relationships, so it's pretty easy to just go on my merry way and respect those in non-traditional, non-monogamous relationships. It's not hard to do, at all. I find it harder to get upset over them.
I agree they’re not something evil to be scared of, but I do have so many questions for them, namely what do you consider fresh and exciting about… moving your FWB into the house in a serious relationship? Isn’t that… the exact routine they were trying to avoid by opening the relationship?
I know things change but I was just very surprised by that. An extra person isn’t going to make things less routine if they’re also living the routine life.
My suspicion is the friend's husband didn't just fall out of love or realize the marriage was dead. It's more like he met a regular person and realized his relationship wasn't normal and wanted out.
I had a friendship with someone who was negative and dismissive and has said some of the most insulting things I've ever been told. I noticed for a while most people didn't act that way so without them around now it it's so much more peaceful and clear how abnormal they were.
I don’t know, OOP doesn’t seem to like Katherine much. He could just be minimizing an emotional affair because he feels good that it wasn’t “a carnal affair”
Why would OP have evidence of the affair? How does one even prove an emotional affair? I think for most people, allowing yourself to be in a situation where you fall in love with someone else constitutes an emotional affair.
If you leave your spouse for another person, you have cheated on them. You can’t start a new relationship without emotional intimacy at a minimum. Where there’s emotional intimacy, physical intimacy follows. Nobody has a brand new partner immediately after a relationship ends if they weren’t looking.
OOP saying their relationship is frosty but nothing direct has ever happened and it all seems to just be rumors... Where to even begin on unpacking the amount of work everyone must be putting in to make mountains out of molehills through speculation and confabulations 🤦♀️
Anyone else find it weird referring to a persons spouse as “Hubby” within the context of divorcing said spouse. Like, that’s kind of a pet name, why is OOP using the term, and why are they using it when talking about a cheating spouse.
Eh, the open relationship wasn't the problem this time. Well, only indirectly due to imposing ethics.
What is tiring is seeing open relationships with people who would be drama even in a closed relationship.
Funnily enough, I live in the Midwest and same here. I’ve actually never met a vegan/vegetarian who fit the stereotype of being annoying or judgey. Just my experience though.
For me? I’m very much NOT vegan/vegetarian
Yeah, the thing about vegan food is that it's THE VAST MAJORITY OF FOOD. Saying shit like "I don't eat vegan food" or "vegan food is gross" just make you sound like a four year old throwing a tantrum (which is actually a bad metaphor because four year olds generally don't throw tantrums upon receiving Oreos)
I don't think that's Midwest only
Source: I'm not Midwestern and I am exhausted the second I read open relationship and vegan I can hold off on being exhausted by till I hear the reasoning behind it
My first question reading any of these is "is this the type of person who would voluntarily ask AITA ? Do they seem at all unsure of their choice ?" And finally "do events oddly align to one ideology". Anna has no choice because it's OOP's house, later update defends Katherine's husband cheating under similar circumstances.
the fact that her husband cheating on her was like a major reason she shouldn't move in in the original post and then by the update its actually "he was paying for everything", what ever happened to narrative and thematic continuity
What even is the point of a “best friend” if you can’t get their help for a few days while your life is being upheaved. I would never be friends with someone like OOP or OOPs gf. Having said that, I would also not badmouth them simply bcos they don’t conform to my norms.
Agreed on both things. Katherine sucks but OOP and Anna are unreliable and self-centred friends who can't put their lifestyle on pause to help someone for a few days. Not just Katherine but anybody who doesn't agree with their choices.
I doubt it wouldve only been a few days though, and I fully understand his discomfort to have someone in his house who actively hates him and any house guests they have over
You’re viewing OOP and Anna’s relationships fundamentally differently to how they see them. These aren’t just casual hookups to them, they are also meaningful relationships
Imagine if Anna lived alone, and invited Katherine to stay with her. And then Katherine said “Okay, but I hate your boyfriend so he can’t ever come over while I’m staying”. Would you think that was reasonable? Would you say she should put her ‘lifestyle’ on hold?
Would you want someone in your house who disagrees with your lifestyle and has just got kicked out of their own house because they're getting a divorce? That's asking for a continuous argument.
And anyone with a bit of sense knows these things are never "for a few days". You don't find a new place to live within a week. It's going to be at least a month, probably more. So that's basically a constant argument for a month, plus a month where you can't even simply hang out with your friends because Katherine would be screaming at you because of perceived infidelity.
My question was why couldn’t they stay over or go out with their FWBs? The outside relationships don’t have to pause, just don’t bring them home?
Not saying they should have let Katherine stay, but that was an odd reason to say no.
What would say to a gay person who told their boyfriend that they couldn't come around, because their homophobic friend needed a place to stay?
They could theoretically go to their FWBs, depending on their housing situation. My boyfriend I usually can't go to their place, and more than a few of my FWBs also haven't had housing situations where I could go.
In any case, that doesn't solve the problem - this is a person who is actively hostile to their relationship and shouldn't have been invited in the first place. And frankly, isn't actually a good friend.
I would have gone with an ESH vote. Firstly Ks husband had an emotional affair. OOPs talk big about cheating and boundaries in poly, but ignore the breach of boundaries in K’s marriage. K should have respected A’s lifestyle. A has a history of being meek and a people pleaser so not sure if K is coming from a place of concern or prejudice.
Then the offering of a place to stay. Should you always discuss with a partner before moving someone into your shared home? Yes. I still don’t like OOPs reasoning. “I don’t like her and it’s inconvenient for me to date and sleep with my other partners outside this house. Even if it’s only for 3 weeks. So no, you can not be a supportive friend.”
I agree with this take. It should be less about modifying their lifestyles for a couple of weeks to support a friend in need, and more about "Honey, you KNOW this friend has been rude to me for our entire relationship. Why would you want to move her into our shared home?"
And if you hate your friend's spouse, don't expect to stay in their shared home. Wtf?
ESH for sure.
Would you invite someone to stay for weeks who doesn't approve of your relationship at all? Especially when the reason they don't approve (perceived infidelity) is the reason she needs to stay? That's asking for a continuous argument.
Look at it from another perspective. If you were in a same-sex couple, and your partner's low key homophobic friend needs a place to stay because her husband wants a divorce after finding out he's actually gay, would you want them in your house? Doesn't sound like a good time, does it?
ESH but I don't understand why these ENM couples on BORU can't keep their lifestyle aside for a few days. It's not sustenance. You won't die.
And I'll be downvoted into oblivion for saying this. Eck!
> can't keep their lifestyle aside for a few days.
I mean, do we know how long Katherine was planning to stay? If it's for however long it takes her to find a more permanent residence, that could be several weeks (or more!) depending on the rental market in her area and her budget, which is potentially even more of an issue given the final comment. This isn't just a "person wants to crash for a short vacation stay" kind of deal.
I don’t know, everyone here comes out like horrible fucking arseholes tbh.
OOP is well within his rights to not want someone else in his house and especially when that person is someone who obviously doesn’t like him.
That said, I wonder if Katherine has more than just the relationship against OOP? He comes across as someone who doesn’t give a fuck about others, it’s more important to him to keep having his side pieces over than let his wife’s homeless friend stay, even though they could presumably just go to their homes for a change or meet elsewhere - it was a couple of weeks.
I also wonder how he actually treats Anna. The comments were about it being HIS home even though they have lived there for 7 years together, she wasn’t allowed to let her friend stay, and I did wonder if it was the only way in which he seemed domineering over her - Anna sounds like an undeveloped character in a novel who just falls in line with him when he tells her to.
The whole thing felt like a lecture in open relationships.
Would it actually be just two weeks though? I think we all have that friend that we have trouble saying no to and who would absolutely overstay all welcome.
>being HIS home even though they have lived there for 7 years together, she wasn’t allowed to let her friend stay,
He owned it before they even met, so it's literally his. And per other comments he made under the first post, Anna invites plenty of others to stay over. The main difference being that those others either respect their open relationship or don't know
I kind of wish Reddit wouldn’t be so quick to label everything as abusive or to try to convince people They are being abused and in an abusive relationship. It’s really counter-productive because it simply sets the poster on the defensive, unwilling to listen and tbh it’s not always accurate.
There is a place between abuse and people just behaving like arseholes sometimes. We don’t know enough about the rest of their relationship to know what this guy falls under, the relationship might need some work and he probably needs a boot up the backside as a boyfriend but none of that necessarily makes him abusive, probably just too comfortable and taking her for granted a bit.
>There's also apparently a very juicy reason why he gets to keep staying in the house but this update is long enough already.
It took one whole sentence!
>Basically she was living above her means somehow.
It's apparently very common but based on what we know about Katherine I wouldn't be surprised if it mostly went to outwardly visible show off kinda stuff like hair, nails, car, name brand, designer, etc.
Good for them for standing up for themselves, yeah open relationships might not work for a lot of people, but it sounds like oop and his wife have good communication and it does for them. Katherine sounds exhausting for a myriad of reasons.
This is the first time I've heard 'war of roses' as a colloquial expression. Is it actually related to the War of the Roses (which would be awesome) or does that just mean something else where OOP is (I assume North America)?
The colloquial expression "war of the roses" essentially refers to any conflict involving romance.
Doesn't have much to do with the actual wars, those were started because Henry VI was insane and the Duke of York didn't want to give up being the protector of the realm after Henry recovered.
I am not a fan of open relationships, but that is my decision. I don’t share well. With that being said, you are NTA. This is your house, and how you do your relationship. If she doesn’t like the way you do it, you should not have to change that for anyone. Especially in your own house.
I would like to add, the original post was very well written. Typically long posts are filled with grammatical errors, and I get bored halfway through trying to figure the story out.
#Do not comment on the original posts Please read our [**sub rules**](https://www.reddit.com/r/BestofRedditorUpdates/wiki/subrules). Rule-breaking may result in a ban without notice. If there is an issue with this post (flair, formatting, quality), reply to this comment or your comment may be removed in general discussion. **CHECK FLAIR** For concluded-only updates, use the [CONCLUDED](https://www.reddit.com/r/BestofRedditorUpdates/search?sort=new&restrict_sr=on&q=flair%3ACONCLUDED) flair. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/BestofRedditorUpdates) if you have any questions or concerns.*
I love they confronted the friend group. "Ok if you want to be judgey assholes, you take her." Silence. That's always the way to do it.
Something tells me she hasn't just been burning through OOP's goodwill. She's likely been irritating the rest of the extended friend group in other ways, and OOP either didn't know or didn't realize how bad it had gotten.
that and the way anna felt like she still had to “earn” her spot….. if this “adoption” by katherine into the friend group happened in school days i’m sure all the rest of the group fully considers her their good friend and its just katherine that likes to capitalize on this insecurity.
Did... did I just read a BORU where (1) the central couple of the drama are polyam [edited from poly - see below for context] and (2) the outcome was that a sane conversation between rational adults cleared up the issue?
And to boot: the problem subject for the original question wasn't the poly couple's relationship status/function, but something/someone else.
It's like I've slipped into a parallel dimension.
Idk about you but I like it here, might stay permanently
I want to stay too!
Yeah, We like this universe's vibe, we wanna stay here too
Yeah I think I’ll make myself cozy.
Can I stay too?
Had to happen sooner or later.
But it happened *before* the heat-death of the universe! /s
I mean with how unbearably hot June has been in the northern hemisphere, may as well be getting close to that…
Is this the poly version of the bechdel test?
Maybe it needs to be?
And the "positive" outcome at the end actually involved another person moving in to date one of them.
That's still only hypothetical. It seems they're making such decisions only after careful and deliberate consideration, which is really something we should all aspire to when it comes to big decisions no matter the subject.
To be fair, people with healthy poly relationships aren’t posting about it on AITA.
Very true.
As a happy and 15+ years, functional Poly person, I am fucking thrilled! I'm texting a link to my entire polycule right now.
This friend of theirs is the kind of person I worry about in my own poly relationship. I have no internal drama in my life but I've had plenty of people make drama around me for my unconventional choices.
Wonders happen, apparently! But note that this works along the thing we always discuss when "poly" goes wrong in these posts: it was a mutual discussion in the beginning of the relationship and both of them went in knowing.
This. Poly with good communication seems to work fine from the outset, but once a relationship is already failing with bad communication, adding more stresses (more relationships, a baby, etc) doesn't ever seem to help.
Opening up the relationship to save it has the same vibes as having a baby to save the marriage
It's not quite as bad - you aren't introducing an innocent child into the dysfunction who has no escape from it. At worst you might expose another adult to it, but they can always nope out. So what I'm saying is, if your marriage is failing, don't have a baby, try opening it. Less harm will be done when the marriage inevitably blows up anyway.
You are introducing "innocent" adults who are expected to shoulder the expectation of being the part of the "solution" to someones failing relationship, and be okay with the inevitable ghosting when the other party freaks out about it.
If you introduce somebody you don't know that well to a situation like that they aren't going to feel bad about ghosting you lmao
It really, really does. Never have a baby to save a relationship because it will crash and burn and now a child has to pay the price of fighting adults. Never open a relationship that is already having problems or if anyone in it has any doubts about being poly. And never, ever leave your partner thinking it will be the wake up call for them to change - leave because you want to leave, can no longer be in that relationship. But I have yet to see leaving cause Movie Moment of change and the relationship continue. Most of the time it makes the person left bitter and vindictive and that shocks the leaver who was ready for agreement to do therapy and reuniting. It's okay to leave if they won't do therapy, but leave expecting you _leaving_.
Also, if leaving is the thing that finally gets them to change, it means they were always capable of it, but your feelings were not enough of a reason for them to do it. Only when it negatively affected them were they willing to do it. It's the same reason as to why you don't stay at a job that "finally" has the funds to give you a wage increase when you're quitting rather than when you actually earned it.
It might have the same vibes, but it also might work. I have aspergers so I've always felt like there is a big difference between emotional relationships and just sex. My wife and I have had these conversations and I've told I just can't comprehend loving someone else as much as her or wanting any kind of relationship with another person, yet the idea of sleeping with other women is appealing. She told me she only wanted to be in a monogamous relationship, but if it were to be open she couldn't handle hook ups, she would want a side boyfriend. I know I couldn't emotionally handle that (you wanting to scratch an physical itch I get, but I should be the only one to scratch that emotionally itch). Once I realized I wouldn't be able control my insecurities over a situation like that we decided it wasn't a door we would ever open, which she prefers because she has only wanted a monogamous relationship. Through individual, couples therapy, and a late diagnosis she came to understand why my brain thinks the way it does. Because she is a therapist herself she didn't just throw me to the curb for saying I desire to have sex with other women and need to not place myself in situations where I may potentially cheat (because if the opportunity is there I'm scared I might take it). Most women wouldn't want to be with a guy like that, I feel extremely undeserving of her love and think she can do much better yet she still thinks she's the lucky one. She doesn't mind that my brain works differently, she see's the effort I put into us and I guess from hearing horror story after horror story from couples, she says my positives outweigh the negatives so vastly I'm worth the risk.
Yeah, my swinger friends avoid those couples once they get wind of the situation.
Yeah and it’s important to note that the decision happened “early in their relationship,” not before their relationship started. I keep hearing from Reddit that poly only works if you both come to the relationship already nonmonogamous… but, in my experience, things don’t always work that way. Especially for a younger couple, there’s a first poly relationship, and sometimes you start out with the assumption of monogamy and then, through mutual discussion, decide together to explore another way. And it works. I think the times it doesn’t work are usually when a couple who is the rocks decides to try it as a last-ditch effort to save things. That relationship was going to end anyway, and adding poly just made everything worse. Then they complain about their breakup on Reddit, and everyone assumes that their experience is the same as everyone’s.
Also sometimes poly relationships just don't work, just like sometimes monogamous relationships just don't work. People like to blame the relationship style as the cause though.
Yup! People break up all the time for a nuanced cocktail of reasons.
>Yeah and it’s important to note that the decision happened “early in their relationship,” not before their relationship started This is correct. We were a couple of months in (5, I think) when that subject came up during a regular relationship check-in of ours. We kinda had those already before we opened up and asked each other about "so, are you happy in this relationship?" or "is there anything you're missing, want more of or want less?" and so on. Anna suggested it and I had to turn this over in my head for a week or so. But, like, I knew she loved me and wanted to make this work, I knew she'd be okay if I said that I want to stay monogamous, too, and she is very good at leading constructive conversations because of her job anyways. I'm always astounded that people think open relationships that started closed are destined to fail. Poly under duress is destined to fail. But if it's not that? You'll kinda get adept at having uncomfortable conversations in open relationships after a while and I wouldn't trust someone who can't handle the "are you okay with opening this?" talk to handle the "okay, what's gonna happen if a secondary accidentally gets pregnant/I get pregnant by a secondary?" talk either.
Totally! I think Reddit has a weird sense about nonmonogamy because they love those drama-filled stories where one partner asks to open up, and the other partner doesn’t really want to, and then it blows up in their faces. I like those stories too—they’re fun—but it’s not a good representation of how the nonmonogamy conversations go in healthy couples. It usually ends up being more of a series of conversations at first: how we feel about monogamy, how we’d see a nonmonogamous relationship working, checking in to make sure the other person is still on board. I think if one person is super not into the idea, the other person would drop it. My husband and I opened up 5 years in! That’s really not uncommon.
>I think Reddit has a weird sense about nonmonogamy because they love those drama-filled stories Oh, definitely. Probably wouldn't have made this post if this hadn't been an unique case where I realized that... * I probably have a very alien/different system of values to the "monogamous-normative" person at this point * I needed input from that crowd to process how this is perceived from the majority that has that lens. >It usually ends up being more of a series of conversations at first Totally. I actually already had a relationship before this one where the topic of non-monogamy came up once or twice over the course of months. Even tho we were both curious we never pushed through and never processed the negative aspects before it ended for unconnected reasons. Funnily enough I mentioned that very early when getting to know Anna and that might have contributed to her coming up with that idea later. So my "ENM/poly journey" might span several years and two relationships from the first "how do you feel about non-monogamy" conversation about it to actually opening up.
And the question isn't about being poly--people who knows as much as this guy will find you can't post that on a normal sub pretty fast
I kinda blame survivorship bias. When the relationship is fine, they don't want advice and we don't see them discuss the relationship on forums. So all we get are the times it goes wrong.
I keep saying this!! Nobody knows about all the totally boring non-drama polyamorous people because we're too busy sending each other memes on discord and going on Costco runs.
It's a very surprisingly mature poly relationship for Reddit. Most of the time one party wants to open up the relationship and they regret it later because it's the partner that gets all the attention.
I think the mature poly Redditors aren’t needing to post in AITA. They’ve got their own sub doing their own poly thing.
we do, and most of the drama that happens in that sub happens for exactly the same reasons that bring most people to AITA. Poly people in good relationships don’t post on Reddit cos the “drama” usually goes something like ‘hey, i’m feeling a bit deprioritised right now because i haven’t seen you much this month. Can we schedule in some quality time?’ ‘I’m sorry, yes of course. How’s Wednesday?’ [fin]
Yep. Poly for almost 2 decades at this point. I'd say most of the poly-related problems are like this (logistical and/or stigma related) rather than actual relationship dysfunction. My partner and I also had a discussion early on and mutually decided that we either didn't like monogamy (me) or we just plain sucked at it (him). Our relationship has outlasted most of the relationships of the people who judged us and thought we'd never last because of our "lack of commitment".
Yeah a lot of people are not suited for that kind of relationship. I had a partner in college ask for an open relationship and then get upset because I had a date by the next week.
Yeah one of the reasons that I enjoy haunting the main poly subreddit is that the increased difficulty of the relationship style means the folks that make it work have really good relationship skills/practices/advice ... and the folks that aren't making it work can be entertaining trainwrecks, lol.
So true and the problem that leads to the majority of posts is the surprise introduction of poly to a non-poly person. These people work because they did it the right way - upfront before they got into a serious relationship. I'll forever die on my little hill that asking for poly, NM, ENM, Open or other forms of relationships from your partner who you've been with for years is one of the worst things and a relationship killer.
I mean, I opened up with my husband after 5 years. It’s been 21 years total. We were just young and hadn’t tried nonmonogamy before so we didn’t come into the relationship already knowing we wanted it. But we arrived at the idea from a series of mutual discussions over a year or two, and then we went for it and it was fine. Because of the nature of our relationship, we know other married couples who opened up that way: got together young, strong relationship, wanted to try something fun together. Swingers especially often start swinging very late into their relationships, like once the kids are at university, as a kind of fun retirement hobby. It doesn’t always crash and burn if you start out with monogamy and then decide to try something different later. What’s different about many happy open marriages is that they are often kept pretty secret (all the open couples I know, including us, are outwardly monogamous-appearing) and so people just don’t think they exist. They also don’t complain about their breakups in Reddit, so Redditors tend to get a skewed view of how the “nonmonogamy discussion” works. Obviously if your relationship is already strained, and one partner asks for nonmonogamy and the other is reluctant, that won’t work. But what if the relationship is fairly strong and both parties are receptive to the idea? That kind of discussion could happen anytime within a relationship and go well.
Thank you so much for sharing your perspective, I really appreciate you sharing this as it's given me a completely different perspective. It sounds like you have a fulfilling relationship where you both have open and honest dialogue and are on the same page about this. Thank you 💛
I mean I guess I shouldn't be surprised that Reddit self-selects for the trainwreck stories. It's nice to see a poly-adjacent drama where the actual people in the poly relationship aren't the cause of it, though, it restores a little of my faith that there are sensible human beings out there.
This is a normal poly relationship. You only hear about the trainwrecks on Reddit. How many stories about failed mono relationships do we see on here? Does anyone conclude that monogamy is at fault?
I mean, you do run into the occasional polyvangelist who tries to claim the problem is that everyone is naturally incapable of being monogamous. I recognize they don't represent the community as a whole, though.
For this sub it’s a surprise. The people in mature poly relationships usually aren’t posting on AITA or Relationship advice which is where you typically see the issues.
Reddit is mostly advice-based and elaborate fakes, so it makes sense that the representation of most relationship structures is a dumpster fire.
People dont post on reddit when their relationship is going great.
Well yeah, because people whose relationships didn’t work out complain about it on Reddit, and then it gets reshared because we all love the drama. Posts like, “hey, I opened things up with my husband 15 years ago and everything was totally fine,” just don’t have the same juicy narrative.
That's because you don't hear about the ones that work, because, well, they work. They don't need to vent anywhere. They just talk about it sometimes and mostly within their own subs
Don't worry, the comments in the original thread (and this one!) are trying their hardest to make OP and his partner the bad guys and the friend the one who's right. Reddit really doesn't like poly people, like I tend to get exasperated by them but when there's so much hate thrown their way for pretty much no reason it makes sense why they act the way they do.
Same. Poly is 0% my thing but if you're not hurting anyone then why should I care?
Out of curiosity: what's so exasperating?
I know some poly folks and while it doesn't always work out cleanly, it's got substantially better odds if it being poly happens at the beginning or early stages of the relationship like in this case, rather than "we have been monogamous for years, I want to try poly because what I really want is to break up with you but there's a reason why I'm not yet."
I was in a poly relationship for 13 years with zero drama, we remain best friends after the divorce, I'm friends with his fiancée, he's friends with my husband. You just don't read about situations like mine because there is nothing to write on Reddit about.
Yeah you don't hear about the boring, you hear about the spectacular burnouts.
You also hear about Bob and Jane, and how it's good Jane has such a good friend in Teresa, they are so close Bob even puts up with the friends having sleepovers like they were in high school. Or two couples are always hanging out together, and the kids are always at each other's house, and then when the kids are in college, you might hear about how the couples are poly.
There's a big difference between deciding together that you want to open things up and coming into the relationship with the understanding of being poly vs the really typical these days of "I just want permission to cheat and already have someone in mind while giving you permission to maybe find someone too" where the person also wears down their partners to agree when they have already said they were against it.
As a poly person in a relationship… I’m more confused by the crazy poly stories on here than the reverse. There’s so much communication and reflection by nature of being non monogamous that it’s rare for things to go wrong in my experience. All the things couples fight about are already pre discussed in open relationships so that’s not much to misunderstand or be unclear about.
Most of the crazy poly stories here aren't really poly. They're people trying to justify cheating.
Yeah, they're monogamous relationships that have ended but for whatever reason the people in them don't want to break up so they "try poly"; then eventually one of them gets upset enough to decide to go through with the inevitable breakup.
Oh my God, this just made the married poly guy I dated years ago make sense I (fresh from a breakup) thought 'oh great, you're already solidly getting relationship love/support, I'll be this great bonus thing.' And then it was a total emotional cluster fuck I heard that they finally actually broke up a few years later. One needed a hip replacement, the other committed to doing the recovery care and then quickly realized they did not love them enough to do that level of care
I think a fair few are just bait too.
>All the things couples fight about are already pre discussed in open relationships That's just not true. The things around *jealousy* and what constitutes cheating and stuff sure, but couples fight about so, so *so* much more than that. Cleaning styles. Finances. Who gets to take the first shit in the morning. Parenting styles. What side of town to live on. The fact that they always say they never want a treat from the restaurant and then pick at yours because it looks good. That they always make you 5 minutes late everywhere you go. That perfume they absolutely love gives you a headache, you've told them twice, and they just sprayed it AGAIN right before you need to go use the bathroom. They want to install a pool but you know it'll tank the value of your home and eventually there will be maintenance associated. They want to go keto but you love bread and pasta and don't want to start cooking two dinners. You prefer warm vacations on the beach but they want to go *skiing.* Whether or not to get a second cat. There is SO MUCH to disagree on that has nothing at all to do with whether you're poly or not. Truly a wealth of things.
> The fact that they always say they never want a treat from the restaurant and then pick at yours because it looks good. This triggers me.
I think it comes down to the fact that poly relationships are pretty rare, and the kind of people who post about relationship drama on reddit are usually not the best at communicating, so most poly relationships that get displayed on reddit are gonna be the shitshows
Also, most of them are a monogamous relationship that goes poly because the partner wants to cheat and it's better to do it openly. Normal poly relationships usually are poly from the very beginning. And besides, no one comes here to tell crazy stories about something that is working perfectly.
One of my favourite post genres is people in shitty relationships posting on r/polyamory about how their partner says they're poly now and all the poly people responding with "no that's not how this works they cheated on you and you deserve better" or, rarely, people posting about how they've decided they're poly and their SO is being a real ass about it just because initially they were technically cheating and the poly people responding with "that's not how this works and you suck".
Not poly, but I am autistic and since discovering this about myself I've been much more deliberate about communicating clearly and asking questions when I'm not sure I understand. It's astonishing how much clear and honest communication does to stop drama before it begins.
People in healthy poly or monogamous relationships aren't posting about them on Reddit, nor are people who are skilled at communication and reflection. It's mostly the same people whose monogamous relationships would be/were shitshows.
Yup. Honestly, as a polyam person, this is more common than all the drama that gets traction on reddit. Most of my friend group is polyam and very chill and communicative.
There are plenty of poly people out there with successful relationships that don't need to turn to Reddit. This only came to Reddit because someone outside their relationship doesn't have their shit together.
It’s like I just woke up in another dimension 🤭
I know, right? I'm expecting to see spouses being defended from toxic MILs, golden child siblings becoming self-aware and reprimanding their parents, and Missing Missing Reasons parents having their Road to Damascus moment.
Not to call you in on this specifically, Captain, but to let everyone reading these comments know— It's preferred to use "polyam" instead of "poly", as the latter is the standard abbreviation for Polynesian and using it for relationships makes it hard for those folks to find/access info about their own groups. (As noted in one of the sources below, it is primarily Polynesian diaspora making this request, not people living in Polynesian countries.) It's a conversation that initially happened quite a while ago, at least in Internet Time™, and has sorta fallen to the wayside in light of larger discussions (ex. the multiple genocides happening worldwide atm) so I definitely don't blame anyone for not knowing about it! (It was also largely a Twitter/Tumblr conversation, so it just may have not made its way to Reddit as much.) As with anything, it takes some effort to change your usage of a term, but it would be very chill of y'all to make that effort with this one. All that being said, if you don't want to / don't care / have some complaint or objection to the poly/polyam discussion... I'm not here to fight about it. Just making a polite request and providing info. Sources for fact-checking: https://aidamanduley.com/stop-saying-poly-when-you-mean-polyamorous/ https://polyampirat.es/explain/poly-vs-polyam/
I had no idea - thanks for letting me know and I'll edit.
No. I think we read a BORU that was basically a nice essay on Open Relationships.
No phones blew up with messages from third parties either.
What sort of witchcraft is this?
😊 finally a relatable post on here for me
Also noteworthy is for once an OOP describes realistic communication between friends. Rather than these friend groups where everyone knows everything about everyone instantly.
>hinge not throuple for the people that speak poly on here Google: Hinge: The shared partner between two people “throuple,” or triad, which describes a certain kind of committed relationship structure between three people.
Thank you for the information. It took me a second to process the Hinge was Anna and not the person moving in, and I got really confused for a bit first, though 🤦♀️
I thought the exact same thing - that the new person would be the hinge - so don’t facepalm too hard, as it would seem that OOP isn’t the clearest of explainers.
Lol me making the math lady meme a reality
Didn't realize until your comment, lol.
A comma really would’ve made a world of difference for me there. Apparently not just me. Thank you for your service
>There's also apparently a very juicy reason why he gets to keep staying in the house but this update is long enough already. I usually don't mind when karma farmers include plot hooks for the next update, but that's just obnoxious.
Yeah, and the "juicy reason" is the husband been paying for everything....
Katherine is probably having an affair with her stepbrother, and he's been grooming her this entire time AND cheating on **HIS** wife.
And you think she has financial troubles now, just wait until she has to support twins on her own because the step brother won’t leave his wife.
It's too late for that, as Katherine blew up Anna's phone... literally! So now she's going to jail and will be tried and imprisoned next week, and Anna had a restraining order request put in and granted on the same day
Uh oh…. Someone just got arresteddddddd 🤗 /s
This thread made my morning
probably premarital property
The reason is posted at the end. It wasn't juicy.
I feel like it’s one of those things that’s only juicy to those who actually know the people involved. If you know them, you can start to piece together the puzzle of “where did her money go” or have the information change your perspective on certain memories/events. But to us strangers, it’s just meh.
Honestly the fact that the reason was revealed in a reasonably sized comment vs full blown update and as you mentioned probably way juicer for those who actually know the person/has seen their lifestyle makes it read more realistic to me.
It could be, depending on what she was spending all her money on. Like boyfriends, a gambling addiction, etc.
He says she was living above her means and doesn’t know what she was spending her money on. It’s gotta be nails. Getting your nails done is absurdly expensive these days. Poor woman is going to have nasty cuticles now.
It's included as a comment at the very bottom of this post
I’m still stuck on how it wasn’t really an affair because the husband fell out of love first, met someone else he did love, and then ended his marriage. Hmmm
I had something similar happen to me. My first marriage was sexless and I was trying to struggle through. I had closed down so much that I didn't remember how much I was missing. An attraction to a longtime family friend flared up for me in a big way. Nothing ever happened or even came close to happening between us, but that flare of attraction did two things for me. 1) it reminded me how much of myself I had lost over time in that marriage. 2) I realized how pathetic it was that it all happened because he was nice to me. He was simply kind to me in an everyday situation - and I realized how absolutely terrible my husband really was to me on a daily basis. It gave me some of the courage I needed to leave my first husband, and I'm so very glad it happened.
< hugs from an internet stranger > bc bruh. I have been there
Especially considering the post went on for *so long* after that statement!
Well yeah, he knew that it would be long (or perhaps even edited it down after first typing it out). That’s not at all unusual.
I was ready to get out the pitchforks
And then continued making the update longer and longer.
I appreciate your cynicism, but he posted the 'juicy' reason in a reply to a comment
He was right tho, the post was too long already, as evidenced by your inability to read to the end and see it's posted in a comment.
> Why are other people involved? Because it has to be to be on the sub. That is why.
> Actually one of my compromises I suggested when telling Anna "no" was to take in Katherine's hubby for a month on a purely functional "a bed to sleep" basis... I understand the logic behind this idea, but it honestly would come off as a real asshole move, oddly enough.
I've always kept the view that open relationships, even if they are not for me, aren't some evil thingy you should hate on. I've been downvoted heavily on this sub and others if I ever just said anything in favor of them. I feel so glad to see an open relationship with level headed people, but yet again, some people in these very comments have a hate boner for this couple. To those people, would you have hated this couple if the friend already hated the guy for more common reasons like just accusations of isolation or the more acceptable one, if they were into bondage and the friend thought the girlfriend was being abused? If not, then this is just as valid. And even if not, a no is a no. They didn't want that friend in their house, simple as that.
I‘ve noticed I get downvoted less when talking about polyam, but I think that’s cause there’s now a core of us who are polyamorous (like me) or who support healthy ENM even if it doesn’t work for them (like you). Hopefully that trend continues! Edit to add: to all of you responding and either just upvoting or respectfully asking questions, thank you all so much for the support. It’s lovely to share all of this with y’all!
What’s ENM?
Ethical Non Monogamy. Includes the many types of polyamory, open relationships, relationship anarchy, etc. (I’m happy to talk about any of these if anyone has questions)
I would love to understand what is relationship anarchy - I’ve never heard of that term! I feel the desire to make some joke about my husband leaving his stuff in places I don’t like but I suspect it isn’t that ;).
My mom was literally just complaining to me earlier tonight about my dad doing that 😆 So, relationship anarchy means that every single relationship is valued independently of every other one. The difference between RA and other types of polyamory is that it includes platonic relationships. In RA we get to decide on a case by case basis what we want each relationship to look like (with full conversation and consent, we decide with the other person not just on our own), be it romantic, platonic, queer platonic, etc. As someone who’s relationship style is in fact relationship anarchy, I currently have a local romantic partner, a long distance queer platonic partner, some friends that I consider family, and many many friendships that mean the world to me and are as important to me as my partners.
That's cool as hell, thanks for the explanation. Makes a lot of sense! Kind of sounds like a lot of work, though? Just with judgy people and all...
I mean, yes. But it’s worth it. My relationships don’t look like what society expects, I’m nowhere on the relationship elevator, so we get to figure out each time what we want, what works for us. We get to renegotiate if things change, which can also make it easier to weather changes of feelings or circumstance for longer term relationship or at least more amicable breakups with more likelihood of staying friends. Luckily my parents know and accept it, and in most of my friend groups a lot of us are polyam. So that helps a lot. And my Google calendar gets a LOT of use 😅 Edit: typo
What does a ‘queer platonic relationship’ entail? Is it a platonic friendship where both people are queer, and therefore act as a support network on maybe a more personal/sexual basis than they’d be able to act with a straight person?
a qpr is queer in the sense that it is different and outside the ordinary, not necessarily that all partners are queer. generally they fall somewhere between society's expectations of a friendship and a long-term romantic relationship, taking elements from both to build the perfect relationship for each situation. very similar to the relationship anarchy that the above commentor was describing. as far as I know, they're very similar except that relationship anarchy came out of poly spaces while qpr's were coined and first described by aromantic and asexual people.
This is a beautiful description! Going to add that a qpr is a single relationship (it may be monogamous, it might not be), while relationship anarchy is a relationship style that might include qprs as part of it. For me personally, both my qpp (queer platonic partner) and I do happen to be queer, that‘s not required. In my case, my qpp and I are both on the aroace spectrum (as well as queer in other ways). I have zero recollection how it started, but we started watching shows through discord together every Tuesday a few years ago. September of 2022 they told me they felt a stronger connection, and I had been trying to decide if I wanted to say something (I was worried that speaking up might ruin this wonderful thing we were already building). So I immediately said yes, me too, and together we decided QPR was perfect for us. And so every single Tuesday we spend hours together watching things and talking. It’s become the eye of the storm of my life, the quiet moment of the week where it’s just the two of us and we can ignore the rest of the world.
30 years ago I learned that there was only one way to have a relationship and that no alternative was acceptable or possible. I thought I was pretty enlightened back then but I never would have considered I could live this way. It was like there was always a huge wall between the normal people and the weird people, and you had to pick a side.
Thank you!
Relationships are like diets. It's fine if you and me eat different food, and cheating on my diet might not count as cheating on yours. As long as everything is consenting and communicated between all parties. It's fine if a couple wants to be extremely prudish and it's fine if they participate in poly orgies. As long as the people in the couple both agree.
My bean sprouts and spinach hate it when I cheat and spend a night out with pizza!.. /s But amen, I'm gonna use your example from now on to explain the frivolousness of these "crimes", when I next encounter someone who spouts some random anti-gay bs or something as well.
>I've always kept the view that open relationships, even if they are not for me, aren't some evil thingy you should hate on. I've been downvoted heavily on this sub and others if I ever just said anything in favor of them I think it's because a lot of people don't understand the nature of non-traditional, non-monogamous relationships, so they're quick to disagree and ridicule. Especially through the lens of this and similar subs, because usually those relationships are presented as something that's created chaos and emotional infidelity that is ruining a relationship. But, I don't get *that* way of thinking. Hell, I don't understand most non-traditional, non-monogamous relationships, despite knowing friends in them, yet I have nothing against them. They don't change me or my life or my relationships, so it's pretty easy to just go on my merry way and respect those in non-traditional, non-monogamous relationships. It's not hard to do, at all. I find it harder to get upset over them.
I agree they’re not something evil to be scared of, but I do have so many questions for them, namely what do you consider fresh and exciting about… moving your FWB into the house in a serious relationship? Isn’t that… the exact routine they were trying to avoid by opening the relationship? I know things change but I was just very surprised by that. An extra person isn’t going to make things less routine if they’re also living the routine life.
That wasn’t juicy at all!
Indeed....just tepid shit
My suspicion is the friend's husband didn't just fall out of love or realize the marriage was dead. It's more like he met a regular person and realized his relationship wasn't normal and wanted out.
I had a friendship with someone who was negative and dismissive and has said some of the most insulting things I've ever been told. I noticed for a while most people didn't act that way so without them around now it it's so much more peaceful and clear how abnormal they were.
I personally feel like that line of reasoning was very dismissive. That absolutely sounds like an emotional affair.
I don’t know, OOP doesn’t seem to like Katherine much. He could just be minimizing an emotional affair because he feels good that it wasn’t “a carnal affair”
He seems to have a different view on cheating anyways. Emotional affairs are worse to me than a one time hook up.
There's no evidence there was one, and their other friends said it was because the husband was tired of carrying the load.
Why would OP have evidence of the affair? How does one even prove an emotional affair? I think for most people, allowing yourself to be in a situation where you fall in love with someone else constitutes an emotional affair.
If you leave your spouse for another person, you have cheated on them. You can’t start a new relationship without emotional intimacy at a minimum. Where there’s emotional intimacy, physical intimacy follows. Nobody has a brand new partner immediately after a relationship ends if they weren’t looking.
Gossip Girl in a nutshell.
OOP saying their relationship is frosty but nothing direct has ever happened and it all seems to just be rumors... Where to even begin on unpacking the amount of work everyone must be putting in to make mountains out of molehills through speculation and confabulations 🤦♀️
Anyone else find it weird referring to a persons spouse as “Hubby” within the context of divorcing said spouse. Like, that’s kind of a pet name, why is OOP using the term, and why are they using it when talking about a cheating spouse.
OOP feels like the definition of an unreliable narrator.
One of the most problematic, regressive, Midwestern things about me is how exhausted I am by open relationships and vegans.
I respect your self reflection and honesty.
Eh, the open relationship wasn't the problem this time. Well, only indirectly due to imposing ethics. What is tiring is seeing open relationships with people who would be drama even in a closed relationship.
God I feel that. I just ended it with someone who was more relationship drama in two days of talking than I've had in the last few years combined.
I've met far more annoying anti-vegans than actual vegans.
Funnily enough, I live in the Midwest and same here. I’ve actually never met a vegan/vegetarian who fit the stereotype of being annoying or judgey. Just my experience though. For me? I’m very much NOT vegan/vegetarian
Yeah, the thing about vegan food is that it's THE VAST MAJORITY OF FOOD. Saying shit like "I don't eat vegan food" or "vegan food is gross" just make you sound like a four year old throwing a tantrum (which is actually a bad metaphor because four year olds generally don't throw tantrums upon receiving Oreos)
I’ve never read a more relatable comment on Reddit.
Why do they exhaust you? I find these two things perfectly ignorable if it doesn‘t involve me.
Because I’m problematic and regressed!
I don't think that's Midwest only Source: I'm not Midwestern and I am exhausted the second I read open relationship and vegan I can hold off on being exhausted by till I hear the reasoning behind it
I don't like anyone in this story.
OP didn't do anything and I hate his smug attitude
OP is smudge and arrogant (it's a reference lol)
Oozes unreliable narrator. But then that's my default stance for all of these.
My first question reading any of these is "is this the type of person who would voluntarily ask AITA ? Do they seem at all unsure of their choice ?" And finally "do events oddly align to one ideology". Anna has no choice because it's OOP's house, later update defends Katherine's husband cheating under similar circumstances.
the fact that her husband cheating on her was like a major reason she shouldn't move in in the original post and then by the update its actually "he was paying for everything", what ever happened to narrative and thematic continuity
What even is the point of a “best friend” if you can’t get their help for a few days while your life is being upheaved. I would never be friends with someone like OOP or OOPs gf. Having said that, I would also not badmouth them simply bcos they don’t conform to my norms.
Agreed on both things. Katherine sucks but OOP and Anna are unreliable and self-centred friends who can't put their lifestyle on pause to help someone for a few days. Not just Katherine but anybody who doesn't agree with their choices.
I doubt it wouldve only been a few days though, and I fully understand his discomfort to have someone in his house who actively hates him and any house guests they have over
You’re viewing OOP and Anna’s relationships fundamentally differently to how they see them. These aren’t just casual hookups to them, they are also meaningful relationships Imagine if Anna lived alone, and invited Katherine to stay with her. And then Katherine said “Okay, but I hate your boyfriend so he can’t ever come over while I’m staying”. Would you think that was reasonable? Would you say she should put her ‘lifestyle’ on hold?
Would you want someone in your house who disagrees with your lifestyle and has just got kicked out of their own house because they're getting a divorce? That's asking for a continuous argument. And anyone with a bit of sense knows these things are never "for a few days". You don't find a new place to live within a week. It's going to be at least a month, probably more. So that's basically a constant argument for a month, plus a month where you can't even simply hang out with your friends because Katherine would be screaming at you because of perceived infidelity.
My question was why couldn’t they stay over or go out with their FWBs? The outside relationships don’t have to pause, just don’t bring them home? Not saying they should have let Katherine stay, but that was an odd reason to say no.
What would say to a gay person who told their boyfriend that they couldn't come around, because their homophobic friend needed a place to stay? They could theoretically go to their FWBs, depending on their housing situation. My boyfriend I usually can't go to their place, and more than a few of my FWBs also haven't had housing situations where I could go. In any case, that doesn't solve the problem - this is a person who is actively hostile to their relationship and shouldn't have been invited in the first place. And frankly, isn't actually a good friend.
I would have gone with an ESH vote. Firstly Ks husband had an emotional affair. OOPs talk big about cheating and boundaries in poly, but ignore the breach of boundaries in K’s marriage. K should have respected A’s lifestyle. A has a history of being meek and a people pleaser so not sure if K is coming from a place of concern or prejudice. Then the offering of a place to stay. Should you always discuss with a partner before moving someone into your shared home? Yes. I still don’t like OOPs reasoning. “I don’t like her and it’s inconvenient for me to date and sleep with my other partners outside this house. Even if it’s only for 3 weeks. So no, you can not be a supportive friend.”
I agree with this take. It should be less about modifying their lifestyles for a couple of weeks to support a friend in need, and more about "Honey, you KNOW this friend has been rude to me for our entire relationship. Why would you want to move her into our shared home?" And if you hate your friend's spouse, don't expect to stay in their shared home. Wtf? ESH for sure.
Would you invite someone to stay for weeks who doesn't approve of your relationship at all? Especially when the reason they don't approve (perceived infidelity) is the reason she needs to stay? That's asking for a continuous argument. Look at it from another perspective. If you were in a same-sex couple, and your partner's low key homophobic friend needs a place to stay because her husband wants a divorce after finding out he's actually gay, would you want them in your house? Doesn't sound like a good time, does it?
ESH but I don't understand why these ENM couples on BORU can't keep their lifestyle aside for a few days. It's not sustenance. You won't die. And I'll be downvoted into oblivion for saying this. Eck!
> can't keep their lifestyle aside for a few days. I mean, do we know how long Katherine was planning to stay? If it's for however long it takes her to find a more permanent residence, that could be several weeks (or more!) depending on the rental market in her area and her budget, which is potentially even more of an issue given the final comment. This isn't just a "person wants to crash for a short vacation stay" kind of deal.
Well. For some reason i dont like oop. I think its “i own this house and wont get that much sex” part.
I don’t know, everyone here comes out like horrible fucking arseholes tbh. OOP is well within his rights to not want someone else in his house and especially when that person is someone who obviously doesn’t like him. That said, I wonder if Katherine has more than just the relationship against OOP? He comes across as someone who doesn’t give a fuck about others, it’s more important to him to keep having his side pieces over than let his wife’s homeless friend stay, even though they could presumably just go to their homes for a change or meet elsewhere - it was a couple of weeks. I also wonder how he actually treats Anna. The comments were about it being HIS home even though they have lived there for 7 years together, she wasn’t allowed to let her friend stay, and I did wonder if it was the only way in which he seemed domineering over her - Anna sounds like an undeveloped character in a novel who just falls in line with him when he tells her to. The whole thing felt like a lecture in open relationships.
OOP gave me bad vibes so I’m glad I’m not the only one who felt that way
Would it actually be just two weeks though? I think we all have that friend that we have trouble saying no to and who would absolutely overstay all welcome.
The ‘his’ home really bothered me too
>being HIS home even though they have lived there for 7 years together, she wasn’t allowed to let her friend stay, He owned it before they even met, so it's literally his. And per other comments he made under the first post, Anna invites plenty of others to stay over. The main difference being that those others either respect their open relationship or don't know
I kind of wish Reddit wouldn’t be so quick to label everything as abusive or to try to convince people They are being abused and in an abusive relationship. It’s really counter-productive because it simply sets the poster on the defensive, unwilling to listen and tbh it’s not always accurate. There is a place between abuse and people just behaving like arseholes sometimes. We don’t know enough about the rest of their relationship to know what this guy falls under, the relationship might need some work and he probably needs a boot up the backside as a boyfriend but none of that necessarily makes him abusive, probably just too comfortable and taking her for granted a bit.
Reddit is all about tropes. Yes, it might be something postpartum, or trauma-based, or AFRID, etc. But maybe, or also, the person is just an AH.
“Finds a condo to haunt this city from” is hilarious!! 😂
This post feels icky to me. OP did not need to broadcast the intimate details of this woman’s divorce to get a judgement.
>There's also apparently a very juicy reason why he gets to keep staying in the house but this update is long enough already. It took one whole sentence! >Basically she was living above her means somehow. It's apparently very common but based on what we know about Katherine I wouldn't be surprised if it mostly went to outwardly visible show off kinda stuff like hair, nails, car, name brand, designer, etc.
Good for them for standing up for themselves, yeah open relationships might not work for a lot of people, but it sounds like oop and his wife have good communication and it does for them. Katherine sounds exhausting for a myriad of reasons.
This is the first time I've heard 'war of roses' as a colloquial expression. Is it actually related to the War of the Roses (which would be awesome) or does that just mean something else where OOP is (I assume North America)?
I took it as a reference to the movie “The War of the Roses” about a very, very contentious divorce. Starring Michael Douglas and Kathleen Turner.
The colloquial expression "war of the roses" essentially refers to any conflict involving romance. Doesn't have much to do with the actual wars, those were started because Henry VI was insane and the Duke of York didn't want to give up being the protector of the realm after Henry recovered.
I am not a fan of open relationships, but that is my decision. I don’t share well. With that being said, you are NTA. This is your house, and how you do your relationship. If she doesn’t like the way you do it, you should not have to change that for anyone. Especially in your own house. I would like to add, the original post was very well written. Typically long posts are filled with grammatical errors, and I get bored halfway through trying to figure the story out.
Compromise... friend can stay for a set period of time only and is to mind her own business
Side note: I just love the thoroughness of this post.
“Given that I own the house….” This right here made me think Katherine was right, and he pressured Anna into an open relationship.