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>found out he has cancer recently but he was also assigned this huge project, very important, time consuming Our boss hands out important projects very rarely and he never hands them out if he has even the slightest idea you can't handle it. Melinda somehow found out from Hank about his diagnosis and two days later she told our boss. Hank was removed from the project all together. Melinda was then assigned to the project along with someone else.
This is so fucked up.
Isn't it discrimination to remove someone from a project due to medical problem you are not even supposed to know about?
And this is what I find so odd about the anger that OOP is getting.
In that office, Hank, Robb and Lucy found out the hard way what happens when you freely share personal information. And those are just from the past year.
Yet, a lot of people sound almost insulted that some people do not share the prevailing "we're all a happy family here at the office" attitude.
Well, a workplace is not your family. That snitch was the one who was the most blatantly assinine, but their manager certainly didn't mind using the information that she provided them with.
And somehow people like OOP are looked at as if they're the ones that are somehow cheating.
The second a workplace tells me I'm 'family' my guard goes all the way up. I've experienced more than one of those and in both cases I left thinking "if that's how you treat someone you consider family, I genuinely feel for those who are merely business partners, colleagues or employees".
When a coworker says that, my first thought is 'oh shit, you drunk the Kool aid.' A supervisor or manager says that during the interview process, I'm gtfo and looking elsewhere.
Right? Family fucks you over in ways that only family can.
"We're all family here!" = "you have no right to complain when we screw you seven ways from sunday. Family just takes it!"
It’s people treating work like school. Work isn’t social life like school is. I’ve made long term friendships at work, but I would not consider most of my colleagues to be friends. And yet, so many people treat work like a continuation of school, where we make friends and socialize with people. Look at the TIFUs and AITAs where people pay the price for over-sharing at work. It’s best to avoid social drama at work, there’s no good that comes from it.
Well said. The visceral anger some of the commenters have for OOP is staggering. She didn’t tell elaborate lies or snap at anyone trying to ask about her home life. She doesn’t like talking about it.
Meanwhile the creepy coworker seems to have gone to great lengths to get info on OOP yet somehow some people think that isn’t as egregious as OOP’s personal policy! Amazingly childish.
>The visceral anger some of the commenters have for OOP is staggering.
I've met and worked with some of those types of people.
Its the type of person who feels entitled to know who you are outside of what you present at work. What do you do for fun, where do you live, do you have family, etc etc, if you give even the mildest pushback they'll act all indignant and surly.
How dare you not want to open up to what is essentially a random stranger.
I've been lucky and only had one boss who asked that I just "Be a team player."
"Sure boss, where do you live, what do you do for fun, how many kids do you have, are you married, are you planning on being married, who are you dating right now" basically gave them all the questions that person got mad at me for, for not answering that they finally realized that its actually very invasive and that no. You dont owe that other person answers for anything other than work related questions.
>Look at the TIFUs and AITAs where people pay the price for over-sharing at work. It’s best to avoid social drama at work, there’s no good that comes from it.
Coming from me, a person who made the mistake of befriending people at work on Facebook, I certainly share this point of view. People digging into personal lives of others to use it as a weapon at work, if not shotgun the info around the workplace because it's entertainment for them, were commonplace. I don't blame OP one bit for rigid boundaries between workplace and personal life.
I learned very quickly after getting my first job that it's a terrible idea to assume that your coworkers are your friends. I've seen people get into trouble for shit they post on their personal social media because they went and added coworkers on there and then complained about work (who doesn't??) etc. And like it or not, your coworkers are sometimes your competitors, too. If you're up for the same handful of promotions, etc. they can easily use what you've told them against you.
They’re the same kind of people that are against WFH and want everyone in the office because they depend on the people at their work to fulfill their social needs. The person that called OOP the asshole proves it by claiming that theres no distinction between work friends and friends. People are not entitled to know anything about your personal life because you’re around them 8 hours a day.
>theres no distinction between work friends and friends.
This was so wild to me because there's a huge conflict of interest, actually. Like, all the things that make you human can also affect your work performance which would also affect your co-workers, and by extension, their families. So there's a huge distinction!
I agree. Your co-workers can use things about you to ruin your career, like OP's co-workers. Your actual friends wouldn't do that. Well, unless they are like Melinda.
Also there's the same ethical concerns with coworkers dating; people will not report if their friends do a massive screw up, managers befriending employees are always a mess, etc.
Work friends are also context-based. Very few work friends stay friends after you’re no longer working together, and that’s okay. You were colleagues who socialized, not necessarily the stuff that epic friendships are made of.
It’s also unwise to get *too* close to work friends, because work-you should be the least dramatic version of yourself. If your friend gets in a grudge-match with management or just starts performing badly, you need to be able to say, “Sorry, that sucks for you, but I need to protect my career now.”
And keep hose three colleagues in mind. These are people who do not care when office gossip damages their colleagues' careers. As long as they only want something to chat about they are not your "friends", they're not your "work friends", they're enemies. Friends care about you, these people only care about their amusement.
Yeah, I think those who have the anger towards her are probably younger, or bought way too much into the idea of work can be your "family". People should be allowed to share as much as they want, compartmentalize. You do what you have to do, to get through the day.
To me, so many times, work has just devolved into high school. So I like to keep a nice medium, so in the end I don't have to deal with the BS. I'm like OP, maybe share a little bit more, but I'm not giving too much away because who knows what could happen? I also just don't get why people need to know so much about everyone else at their work place, if it's not affecting your life, and your co-worker doesn't want to share, leave them to it.
I lost out on a promotion at an old job (~10 years ago) because I went on vacation and came back talking about how beautiful it was and how I'd like to live there. When they told me I didn't get the job, they said they would have loved to have me in the position but they didn't want to hire me for it if I was just going to be leaving soon. Joke's on them, because the woman they hired instead had just gotten married - she was pregnant within a year, went on maternity leave, and never came back. And I still live within an hour of the office.
My earliest jobs were all at super small places of less than 20 employees. Everyone knew everything about everyone else's lives - when they were feeling sick, when they'd been out drinking together the night before, who was fighting with their spouse, whose kids were getting in trouble, who was getting high together after work. You can think "oh it's just my coworkers, it's fine", but you never know who's listening, who's gossiping, and who might get promoted one day and now your direct supervisor knows all your business.
I'm very much on OOP's side. I'll talk about work, or sometimes about my hobbies, but I don't get into details about my personal life. I have made friends with coworkers, but we don't act out that friendship at the office, if that makes sense.
And OOP herself mentioned she, being a woman with a family in a predominantly male-dominated field, would already be at a disadvantage right out the gate. Like…yikes. She’s already shared enough to be vulnerable here leave the poor woman alone she already has two kids who like jojo spewa 🤮
I’ve had this exact same scenario play out in my small office.
A couple 60+ women coworkers got upset when one guy in our group refused to share personal info. He just deflected or said “I try to keep my private life private, nothing personal.” They had no idea where he lives or if he has kids or where he’s from.
I worked with Doug 9 years and I still don’t know anything about him.
The insistence on being work friends is not gender based, or even age based IMO. It’s loneliness based. The old ladies considered work their social hour and wanted something to talk about.
I wonder if it’s anger exactly or if they don’t know what the fuck to do now.
Are they supposed to pretend they don’t know this new info? Where is the line now that it’s been blurred by an outsider.
I know it would trigger my social anxiety like or crazy.
I agree. People like Melinda are why many people don't share their personal lives. It's none of their business. Your co-workers aren't owed access to your personal life. If you want to talk about your life or not is up to you.
Melinda is a terrible person who uses a person's personal life against them in order to get promoted or at least better assignments.
That one comment that said OP is the asshole because they’re not close to their coworkers … saying that OP sees them as “lesser”. What? Idk about anyone else but when I go to work, I am there to work, not to actively make friends and close connections (the genuine ones a a bonus).
Yeah I mean, as far as my personal and social life goes, my coworkers are “lesser.” Not lesser or unworthy human beings but they rank near the bottom for personal relationships.
If OOP is an asshole so am I. I have a pretty hard barrier between my personal life, such as it is, and work. I used to not and my life suffered for it.
THIS. I’m neurodivergent and don’t trust most people because frankly, they don’t deserve it. But then I get treated like a freak because how dare I use my pattern recognition to protect myself. Corporate offices are high school v 2.0.
"assinine" I hope that was intentional, that is great.
I feel bad for OOP, she was doing just fine until Nosey Nancy decided she needs OOP to be a Kardashian and have her entire life on blast.
The commenters that got all butthurt, yeesh, talk about outing yourself as the workplace gossips!
I have made friends that were co-workers as someone who is pretty guarded, that said OOP and the like-minded are perfectly valid in just staying in their own lane and being friendly without letting everyone in to their entire world.
Yeah, but Hank has to sue and in another comment OOP mentioned he was living the rest of his life on house boat. Maybe Han's time was too valuable to deal with lawyers and f\*\*\*\* Melinda.
Depending on the prognosis he might not wanna spend the last years of his life fighting a lawsuit. I didn't get the impression it was terminal by any means but it's cancer, you never REALLY know
almost certainly, depending on country and how good their labor laws are, but with a cancer diagnosis close to retirement it makes sense to just retire than deal with all the bullshit if you're not in a country that will make the right easy for you
Could be that this project was his last hurrah. I know a few people that put off retirement because they wanted to complete something. A former colleague wanted to do a trade show so he was going to hold off retiring for 6 months for it until the owner told him to retire and they would "rehire" him to run the trade show.
In the UK too, though I'm not sure I'd care to take the fight on if I had a cancer treatment coming my way. Maybe later, when I felt better.
The post says he retired to enjoy his last few months so I definitely think I'd have other priorities in that particular case. A real shame that his last memory of the company is of that backstabbing snitch though. Poor man.
In the US, cancer is a condition covered by the ADA. So a company would have to tread carefully regarding how they reacted to learning that information.
I had a coworker that went to my boss and complained because I wouldn't tell her any personal information. And my supervisor actually started counseling me about it, ffs. I used to work in HR so as soon as I did the dog-head-tilt my supervisor realized how ridiculous the conversation was about to become. She backpedaled BIG time and said something like "could you try being nicer to her?" and I asked HOW was I *not* being "nice" to her? I am perfectly professional with her, the only thing I refuse to do is gossip with her and share my personal information.
What the what? They should have told her to pound sand and that you're not required to share your private life at all and it's not required to do your job.
Oh I agree, it was so freaking bizarre. I remember thinking "are we seriously having this conversation?" Thankfully that coworker has moved on, she was a piece of work.
Isn't it weird how life works? I've never heard of this show, and yesterday I watched half of the first episode with my niece. So I've seen this part. And now, I've seen it twice, in two days...
Yeah this is the main reason imo. She's going to learn to be more subtle. Next time she won't announce this sort of thing, but she'll find ways to make it probable for her to know it. She showed her hand too aggressively and now everyone knows the kind of game she's playing
The moment she's reprimanded, she knows her tricks won't work anymore. Better to quit than stay where she can't advance quickly due to her nasty tactics, or end up being fired because she keeps trying to run the same plays. Quitting proves how awful she is because she'll just be looking for a new pool of victims in a fresh workplace. I guarantee this isn't the first time she's done this.
Wow. Fuck Melinda. That kind of person is *EXACTLY* why OOP separates work from home, and should prove to her she made the right call.
I don’t get everyone being mad. I mean, I understand it to a point. But not one of these people even NOTICED that they didn’t know these things (or that OOP was “withholding” information from them) *UNTIL* Melinda spilled the tea. And OOP’s privacy was a universal thing. She didn’t favor anyone. I think people are misplacing anger for the embarrassment they feel for not knowing the things they *think they should know* about a friend.
I agree with you about embarrassment, but less about not noticing. I behave a bit like this (but for different reasons) and people definitely notice, they just assume I have a really boring home life. Like, I live by myself and spend all my spare time watching TV or something. They just think I'm really boring or maybe a workaholic and don't have anything to contribute to the "home life" conversation.
People do not like feeling like the other person was "less invested" than them. Or the only person with family stuff.
Oop realized the importance with Lucy. Lucy was sharing a lot there, but oop neither allowed themselves to be on equal standing _or_ told her to stop. So now Lucy is going to just feel like she wasn't _worth_ relating to.
Yeah, that tells me those people the coworkers and the YTA/ESH commentors haven't reach the stage of maturity of respecting people's boundaries and privacy.
These people are exactly why others are afraid to share their life at work. It's like they are OWED to know every single thing about you. I like my coworkers but if one felt entitled to know anything about me I would do my best to avoid them.
That's doubled with the fact that Melinda uses her infos to get back at people. It's litteraly dangerous for your career to talk to her.
I trusted someone once who then changed 90% of my words and made me look like an ass to our managers. I still resent him for it. Don't trust soemone blindly when they can make you get fired.
Yeah, it was wild how many people were upset about her committing the crime of...not wanting to talk about her private life? Such a bizarre sense of entitlement, to feel like she owes you her privacy.
It's interesting no one called out the fact that maybe OOP's coworkers thought she was some forever alone loser and pitied her. Maybe the betrayal they felt came from their misplaced "compassion".
That's not to say that is the case, but the outrage must be coming from something else.
They're assholes too, but potentially for different reasons.
> But not one of these people even NOTICED that they didn’t know these things (or that OOP was “withholding” information from them) *UNTIL* Melinda spilled the tea.
That's not how people build images of others. Absence of information is in itself information. Unless OOP specifically told them that she is keeping things private, no one will notice anything.
Eg. If you're having a talk about the troubles of raising little kids and one person isn't contributing their experiences despite partaking in the talk, then you assume they don't have anything to contribute. You don't assume that one person is keeping something hidden while readily engaging with the equivalent in others.
Some anger is justified there. OOP said she redirected prying questions, I.e. it was her hiding information just as much as others incorrectly assuming something. It is reasonable to be upset if someone is partaking in conversation without being open to said conversation.
I absolutely disagree that nobody notices until specifically told.
I've a very friendly and chatty person at work. I notice the deflection or avoidance of personal details. I respect it instead of pulling a Melinda.
Some of the "work is work, private life is private" people are hard to work with. Not because of that stance, but because the people who keep close mouthed aren't talkative (generally speaking), so getting work details from them can easily become a game of 20 questions.
I don't begrudge OP her privacy, to each their own, but my partner is such a huge part of my day to day that when I have to be in spaces where I can't bring her up for safety reasons (we're both ladies) mentally pruning her from the conversation is absolutely exhausting. I have to catch myself so many times to keep from saying things like "Oh my fiancé actually made me watch that last week it was really good" or "when I was on the east coast visiting my partner's family." The information doesn't feel complete to me without the 'why' of it and leaving that off always feels like lying by omission. Even though it's not really necessary in the preamble to say I watched a certain TV show or I went somewhere interesting on vacation.
I think it’s interesting because it highlights a difference in what OOP views as good friendship vs maybe what her coworkers think. I think it’s reasonable to have a general understanding of someone’s personal life to consider them a friend. Otherwise, they are just someone I work with. But maybe OOP doesn’t feel the same. I just wonder how she avoided questions about her life for so long and managed to build friendships with people. Did she just straight up lie or say she didn’t want to talk about it?
They clearly noticed, OOP even mentioned at the beginning that she is regarded with an aura of mystery in the office. Melinda is awful, but I can understand why some people would feel hurt or confused.
Well, I wish OOP well if they do move to a new country as that would be tough. (As long as there are no Melinda's in the new office, they should be fine)
I work with someone like OOP.
Doesn't give any personal information.
That's fine. I respect that and don't ask personal questions.
Just as an example, they are relatively new, and I had to do some job training with them. (Me doing the training for them to learn)
I asked what they had done in previous work.
Their answer: "Working in travel." They didn't follow with any extra information. So I left it at that. Some people are more private than others, and I respect that. If they want to volunteer more info, they will. If not, it's no skin off my nose.
Also, I don't socialise with workmates outside work myself.
You never know who has had a hectic/difficult background, who might have an AVO out on an abusive ex who has threatened their life, who might not be comfortable coming out about different parts of their identity at work, who might be using work to escape awful things in their personal life, etc etc etc. A person may not like that their colleague won't spill the tea, but unless their colleague isn't doing their job properly what does it matter? And even then, there are processes and governance that gets followed, and it's related only to what they do at work.
I mean, fuck. OOP could have been in a same sex marriage in a location/industry where it would have been an instant shutdown. Melinda outing them could have been physically dangerous.
I have had someone on my team now for two years and I don't know his partner's name, even. We've discussed intensely personal topics, including multiple discussions of politics and values, but he doesn't talk about his personal life and that's 100% his prerogative actually.
Especially in male-dominated fields. Being married and having kids is an advantage for men professionally because they get to be the family man, but it’s a complete disadvantage for women. I don’t fault OOP at all.
It’s also a thing where some men will hit on you if they think you’re single but plenty of others specifically target women who are married and/or have kids. I’d never fault another woman for wanting to preemptively cut off an entire potential sub-group of trashy flirters.
OOP actually said in one of her comments that her field is dominated by men, and she had seen many women not get promotions, etc. because managers didn’t have faith in married women with children being good employees.
She was protecting herself from the sexism that is inherent in her field.
I'm very curious on what caused the complaints and making Melinda quit. If anything, the coworkers were pissed at OOP not Melinda. What other crap did she pull?
Or my theory; since OOP is now ok with her coworkers now after Melinda has quit. Me wonders if Melinda invading the others privacy made them realise *why* OOP was private in the first place and decided to be ok with her after that.
But thank god HR was on OOPs side cause I was worrying they would be *that* HR where they would say, it's public Facebook, not our problem.
It sounds like Melinda was a low-level problem who managed to keep her manoeuvring and backstabbing under the radar most of the time. There were probably several people in the company who'd had an issue with her, but not a large enough one to want to stick their neck out and complain for fear of it reflecting worse on them than on her.
Once OOP had HR involved anyway, those people might have thought, "Well, I may as well mention it now, because it won't be just me."
I assume it's the result of this...
> We hired Melinda last year and she took it upon herself to become the office snoop. She spent several weeks getting as close to everyone as possible. However, she does this to seek out potentially useful information she can hold over peoples head.
On the one hand, it was probably too much to Melinda that no one was talking with her anymore. Those kind of people get their sustenance of being the center of attention.
OTOH, it's possible only OOP had realized what was going on with her before, and with the new case being a lot more public, with her being bold enough to announce OOP's "secrets", people put two and two together on what had happened before.
Or a combo of both
I get it. I've never gone to the same extremes that OOP did, but I also do NOT tell anything to co-workers or managers about my personal life beyond the very superficial. They know I'm married, I'll mention my wife. Some hobbies may come up, but I never really talk about my plans (not that I ever have a lot). I don't talk about my larger family or friends. I certainly don't tell them about mental or physical health issues going on among my friends/family or myself, unless I have to (to HR/managers for illnesses and such).
Same. Although it's a bit different for me because I'm a self-employed pet sitter, so I don't have co-workers, only clients. When I'm being interviewed by new ones, one of the things I go over is the two weeks out of the year I for sure leave town (to see my parents), and what my backup plans are in case I'm sick or injured beyond working, or one or both of my parents suddenly die. Beyond my experience working with animals in the past, it's really all they need to know about me.
The part that sucks for me is that sometimes they bring up politics out of nowhere, and I have to whip out my powers of redirection (unfunnily enough, honed to perfection thanks to my parents) to get back on track. Lord knows how many of my regulars would drop me if they knew I used pronouns.
> They know I'm married, I'll mention my wife. Some hobbies may come up, but I never really talk about my plans (not that I ever have a lot). I don't talk about my larger family or friends.
I think this is normal. OOP however seems very closed off.
For someone who cherishes her private life OOP gave a lot of information to a bunch of random internet strangers.
Also fuck Melinda, she's the kind of person that makes you split your personal life from work.
I wasn't overly private until one of my "work friends" told HR something I said ... but like SUPER deformed and changed and which would totally made me look like a fool.
I can't swear it was the reason my training time was stopped later, but let's say I'm 100% it didn't helped.
Anything you say at work can be used against you. And you never really know who you can trust.
Ipgee: So I said, "Your request for a date is most flattering Leela, but I'm afraid I must decline. These office romances never work out. After all, that is how I met my horrible wife."
Leela: But you never wore a ring, I didn't know you had a wife.
Ipgee: And my wife doesn't know I have a job, I keep my personal and professional life separate.
I'd much rather have a coworker like OOP over the chronic oversharer I *do* work with. I don't want to hear about her "oh so tragic" dating life, why her kids don't want anything to do with her this week, or the whining about the consequences of decisions she made herself. I know way more than any person ever should, and that shit's exhausting.
OOP has every right to privacy and it's really not a big deal especially in a work place. My only pet peeve is when people like OOP still want a level of connection that requires more depth and/or get confused when ppl who considered her a friend are hurt by her lack of openness. It's not at all an obligation I just mean you gotta prepare yourself for humans to act human. If you keep parts of your life separate they'll assume it's either due to dislike or distrust, that's just natural. If you're work friends and you choose to keep them out of your private life to the extent that OOP does, they'll fill in the blanks on why and it won't be this generous, neutral opinion. Ppl are rarely emotionally mature enough to understand that even as adults.
It's nbd to OOP bc it's their life...they aren't shutting the door on themselves and can't perceive how others may interpret her actions as a rejection. I just get annoyed that they're making these boundaries and not fully understanding them or how it affects their relationships. They're all "it's nothing personal" when it quite literally is personal; what you mean is is that it's not personally against them as ppl. You just like to separate things for your own comfort.
I don't get the ESH and YTA responses. Like personally, even if I worked somewhere for a long time or have bonded with co-workers very closely by then, I'd still would rather have my personal life to be private. I feel that it's my own life and not others to be involved.
I’m just curious if any coworkers have surely asked “so do you have kids” is her response “i don’t wish to discuss my private life”. Like some of the stuff she chooses not to talk about seems like they would come up at some point in 9 years.
Yeah like I get not wanting your personal life at work and fully respect that. But it would be near impossible to have a productive relationship without at least *some* private life info. Talking about my random hobbies (which are not at all status/rich people hobbies) is how I feel I ultimately got most of my jobs, from min wage food service to highly skilled (non public facing) office jobs. There are plenty of people that can do a job, but some connection and feeling for someone being interesting (and interested) is so key. It’s also how I remember random consultants and am more likely reach out to them again because I actually remember them.
Sounds like she is a good worker but with the personality of a chair.
My coworkers have no idea I have a kid but gave him up. I just say I don’t have kids because then that’s all they want to talk about and the whys I don’t have him and why I don’t have more. It’s easier to just say I don’t have any because they don’t need to know the whole mess and it would involve getting into things I’d rather not.
I think avoiding a specific topic is OK. Besides, it doesn't seem like you have a child at home so it's hardly a lie. People are just trying to understand who you are / hobbies / what you do outside of work.
I think it's strange that someone's 'specific topic' is everything outside the office. If you don't want coworkers to know you, then you might as well just not engage with them outside of work tasks.
>I don’t get the ESH and YTA responses
Especially when OOP said in her original post that Melinda decided to share this information as an announcement to everyone. That’s simply insane behavior.
Or use that information to get ahead or sabotage her colleagues… like wtf… that is my worse nightmare. After seeing what Melinda did to her three colleagues, u would think that the common sense thing to do is to keep your mouth shut about your private life
I think it's because of the level OOP went to? Like, she didn't even say she was married or anything in nine years? She says "I've made some great friendships at work. There are more things to talk about than my husband and my kids." But then also says NOTHING else about herself? And how do you have great friendships at work if they know absolutely nothing about you?
Plus, she was fine to soak up all the details about their lives like with Lucy, but she couldn't even offer up that she was married? If she didn't want to discuss her personal life, that's fine, but when someone else was confiding in her like that, she should have said something like "I'd rather not discuss our personal lives together." And then she got upset her coworkers only talked with her about work after everything came out...
For me it also really depends how she was keeping this stuff private. If someone asked her a direct question like if she has a partner, did she not give an answer/change the subject/say she didn’t want to talk about her private life, or did she actually say no? Just avoiding giving details of your personal life is totally fine - I do that at work myself - but I can understand her coworkers finding it quite weird if she was actively lying about things.
I’m leaning more in your direction on this one. I think OOP’s coworkers had a shared realization that OOP is weirdly sterile and maybe not that particularly great to talk to. It’s fine to want to keep your social contributions strictly business, but you shouldn’t be surprised if your coworkers respond in kind.
She mentions repeatedly that she has a handful of hobbies she discusses with coworkers. It seems more like she kept work and family more separate than work and personal overall.
I also don't see why she has to force her level of distance to be a two-way street. For instance, I am entirely private about my sexuality (in the broadest sense of the word) with everyone but my husband, but I have no problem listening to friends talk about it - even the ones who like to go into detail about whatever kink orgy they went to recently. Surely they're well aware that I don't reciprocate at this point but that's unrelated to my willingness to hear out a person who wants to share.
OOP's biggest mistake, as she acknowledges, was probably maintaining this level of distance with a coworker who sought comfort and camaraderie in her the way Lucy did, particularly not offering her own (different, but related) story when explicitly prompted.
You don't have to tell them everything your son ate for breakfast or how many divorces you had before your current spouse. It just seems super strange to refuse to even admit that you are married or have kids to people that you consider friends. I'm having trouble even thinking of ways you would dodge questions like "Do you have any kids?" without seeming like a weirdo.
Man, I will share my family drama with anyone who stands still long enough (Look, sometimes you get a text and the only possible response is to grab the nearest person and say "CAN I TELL YOU ABOUT DUBIOUSLY LEGAL LITERAL MONKEY BUSINESS???") and even I'm like "Nah, OOP was within her rights there." Especially if she felt like her career could be effected by what people think they know about her!
>CAN I TELL YOU ABOUT DUBIOUSLY LEGAL LITERAL MONKEY BUSINESS???
My SO sends me a voice clip with 'Do you wanna hear some bullshit?' to the tune of "Do You Want to Build a Snowman"
That post where the person was trying to say the coworkers were just trying to be treated like people was so ridiculous. It's not like the OOP was being rude to them. They're co-workers, not friends. The vast majority of co-workers won't talk to you again if you're no longer working together, that's not the type of relationship that deserves nurturing.
Then let them stay coworkers and not friends! Fuck Melinda. I think the ESH votes were because of Lucy, and the only person I feel OP wronged here is her. What a way to find out that your very close friend who you thought you shared intimacy and trust with, sees you as surface level.
Yes exactly. I’m glad OOP realized she might have gone too far here. I’m curious as to how much she was straight up with people about not wanting to discuss personal things and how many times she told white lies to dodge questions. I can definitely see how the latter would make people feel betrayed and not trust her. It’s totally fair to value privacy at work, but I think it’s important to be straight up and keep things professional then (ie, don’t let a coworker tell you about her son’s health struggles)
Exactly. It’s fine to have boundaries, but you don’t get to keep those boundaries for yourself secretly, while withholding the fact that those boundaries even exist.
It takes away Lucy’s agency to make her own decisions and set boundaries too.
“I feel for you and am here to support, but I don’t want to discuss my personal topics” is wildly different from “I don’t have any parts of my life that relate to this” when you DO. One is a boundary, one is a lie by omission if not an outright lie.
And to get upset that your coworkers who found out you were holding them at arms length, beginning to do the same to you? It’s not retaliation, it’s reevaluation. Shes been with that team for 3 years, hardly strangers. “Why are these people who I’m not friends with, not being friends with me after finding out I don’t view them as friends!” like girl?? cmon. you can’t be THIS dense about interpersonal relationships.
Thanks for fleshing this out. I knew I felt uneasy but also on the ops side, and this is why. She wasn't upfront about not wanting to be personal while letting someone else be very personal with her.
>They're co-workers, not friends She calls them friends though.
That's a big part of why I think she's at least a weirdo if not a bit of an asshole. You can't consider someone a friend and then also treat them as someone who doesn't deserve to know that you have a family.
>They're co-workers, not friends.
Yeeeeep. I made the mistake of treating coworkers as friends in my early 20s. Bit me in the ass. I am MUCH more tight-lipped about my personal life now. I'm not as tight lipped as OOP, but I certainly can respect her desire for privacy.
Except she calls them her "work friends". Gotta put disclaimer that I'm not saying she's in the wrong for not sharing her personal info lest I get downvoted into oblivion, but there's obviously a disconnect between the perceived level of closeness.
Looks like some of them got very close to her, while she's not letting them get close to her, while by her own description acting sort of like a therapist to one "friend". You'd think her boundary of "I don't want to talk about my private life at work" would also extend to others' private lives, but nope! She says she told Lucy "nah, can't relate" and then describes to *us* a very similar circumstance (OOP must be aware it would be a valid answer to that question, otherwise she'd not put that in the post). It's really no mystery why Lucy got upset with her and OOP realized that.
I think OOP took it to such an extreme that she sounds like a cold psychopath. I would be wary as well if I didn’t even know she was married.
I don’t need to know the daughter is gay, or the sister in jail. But being married with twins? That’s like the minimum
Exactly, the people who think that you're OBLIGATED to share your private life with your coworkers have never had to deal with office gossips who will weaponize your personal life, esp. if you're a woman/queer/or other minority at the office.
I really hate that this Melinda told the boss that Robb was looking for another job. This is why you keep this very much under wraps and only expose that information after you send in your resignation.
In my workplace my co-workers wouldn't even share what company they are moving to until they have already started working there.
>Exactly, the people who think that you're OBLIGATED to share your private life with your coworkers
You're not obligated to, but that doesn't mean it's not fucking weird for people you've known for years to not even know you're married or have kids. Even if she didn't *technically* lie about it being completely unwilling to share such surface level information with people you're apparently friends with definitely comes across like you're hiding it and it's perfectly reasonable for people to have been a bit offended by that.
I would give OP the side eye a little. Almost everyone I've worked with can't shut up about thier family. And that's fine with me. Listening politely is sometimes the only break I get.
Honestly I'd have just straight up told HR that Melinda has a history of getting ahead by bringing personal information about others to work and essentially stealing their work, was Melinda sleeping with the boss or something??
I admire OOP's ability to keep their mouth shut about most things non work related, but wouldn't it end up tiring trying to remember what you have or haven't told people? If she's OK to share her hobbies, but noone knows she has a husband or daughter, what would she do if someone asked who she was making a knitted hat for and it was for her daughter? Would she lie? And then how does she remember the lie?
I get not oversharing but all the black hole non information sounds exhausting.
Thank you all for giving me a different perspective about privacy, especially as OOP later revealed her profession/that workplace penalizes women with children.
I also appreciate that OOP has shifted her viewpoint a little, teeny bit as well.
If you spend time in the pregnancy/parenting subs, it regularly comes up that you should **not** voluntarily disclose a pregnancy during hiring, promotion review, or other work evaluations. HR flat-out doesn’t want to know protected information, since knowing places them in a position of real, subconscious, or perceived discrimination, all of which makes their job harder.
I can see that wisdom applying to entire industries. I personally wouldn’t want to work in a field that would discount me the moment they knew I had kids, but I absolutely understand taking steps to mitigate that perennial harm.
I am a very privite person at work. Not this level. But I understand what OOP does.
Melinda was a drama starter. Glad she's gone and OOP is back to where she was with her coworkers.
Obviously OOP is NTA. No one is obligated to divulge personal information at work. If you want to keep it strictly business, that’s fine. But I would be dishonest if I said that OOP’s extreme level of privacy wasn’t bizarre. What stuck out to me is her statement about living in a small town that’s an hour outside of her workplace’s city to maintain distance between her professional and personal lives. I’m not sure what could reasonably warrant that level of separation.
Yeah I can also understand not wanting your coworkers to know absolutely everything about yourself, like how your brother is a recovering crack addict, or how your homophobic parents disowned your trans sister. But not even wanting them to know you're married with kids is a bit much innit? What does OOP do when they need to take an afternoon off to take their kids for a doctor's appointment? Or check out early to head to their recital/ sports meet etc?
Honestly, the way it reads makes it sound like OOP shares *nothing* about herself. As in, she wouldn’t even answer something like, “Have you seen *Dune 2* yet?” That level of secrecy comes off as hyper-controlling or uppity, both of which are off-putting. I still don’t think OOP is an asshole or in the wrong, but it’s not a winning personality trait, and I understand why her coworkers decided to shrug her off beyond obligatory work duties.
I think she thinks a little too highly of herself. Her coworkers view her as an "enigma" and she's made great friendships at work yet those people don't know she has a husband and kids? Plus as you point out she lives an hour away for space?
I think she enjoys creating the mystery. She wants to be viewed as this mystifying person that no one has a grasp on.
That in no way excuses Melinda though.
She also seems to have separate relationships for each aspect of her life perfectly compartmentalized. She organizes her life in pretty much the same way they show government ops and terrorist cells work in tv . No one knows more than they need to function.
Multiple complaints you say? Like how she gave out another employees personal information and then he was negatively affected by it? EEOC could have entered that chat pretty quickly from there.
I love it when people throw out the term “hostile work environment” rather than toxic or dysfunctional. There’s no legal definition to the latter two terms but there is for Hostile.
Good on OOP though for immediately going to HR to file this complaint. Whether or not Melinda used company time or equipment doesn’t matter because she took to sharing OOOs personal info to everyone. Melinda obviously is 🥜
Good on OOP for going to HR. It’s okay to want privacy at work, and colleagues should respect that. Mine found it odd that I had nothing personal on display at my desk. No photos, no wallpaper of my fam on my computer or phone. When they asked why, I said I remember what my family looks like 🤣
I think people are horrible at balancing privacy. Not sharing anything *ever* to some "great friendships at work" is not healthy. I think it's entirely reasonable to have created some strain with her coworkers for being so relentlessly private.
Do you want to talk about your family and their shortcomings? Obviously not. Is there a middle ground between that and saying absolutely nothing for 9 years? Absolutely. I think it's super disingenuous that you imply otherwise.
Because at a certain point it becomes antisocial behavior and that bothers the lizard part of our brains since social cohesion and trust are big behavioral reasons why our species has thrived so much.
It's also weird people are acting like it's a betrayal for OOP not to say, "hey, I won't confide in you in return", when someone shares something personal. They're adults, they should realise they don't know anything about OOP's family, it doesn't need a disclaimer. I've worked with people before who were quite private, and got along with them fine, lots of hobby chat like OOP - but I knew I didn't know important things about them and that they dodged such questions (so I didn't keep asking obviously). It seems to me like you'd have to be quite self-centred not to realise your colleague you tell lots of intimate details to hasn't ever shared anything on the same level. But maybe I'm just overly conscious of that because I tend to be an oversharer. I try to gauge people's comfort with personal topics so I don't bombard them with my life when they have no interest in it...
The exception is if OOP was "deflecting" in such a way that a reasonable person would assume it was an answer - eg "Do you have any kids?", "Do you think I'd have time to do my make-up so nicely if I had kids?". Not a technical lie, but it strongly implies the answer is no, so essentially a lie. Then everything the colleagues thought they knew about OOP is suddenly in question and she would suddenly seem very disingenuous.
It's not about a legal right to privacy. It's about the social consequences of acting like a bit of a weirdo.
OP is experiencing those consequences. She didn't do anything morally or legally wrong, but this isn't a courtroom and we're not talking about ethics.
This had a pretty satisfying ending. Melinda quit. All her hard work throwing others under the bus was for nothing 🤣. OOP realizing she’s kinda a weirdo and going to work on that, but still remains her classy hardworking self.
I hope she and Lucy made it up properly - it sounds like she felt her stomach drop when she realised that Lucy had genuine grounds to feel hurt. Her concerns about protecting her career - especially when their boss is evidently quick to act on their judgements - do make her decisions to not publicly project herself, within the office, as a wife and mother to two including a medically vulnerable child, make sense. But she notes that she was pretty sure one of the guys in the office thought she had kids before bumping into him and his family in her home town; it sounds like she wasn't opposed to people knowing necessarily, so much as discussing it at work, and it prejudicing her career - and also that she perhaps liked having a space where she was "OOP, [Job Title], fab colleague, doesn't gossip but a good listener. Hobbies include handicrafts, singing and hiking" _first_ and not defined in relation to other people.
She did take it to extremes, but it's probably better than going the other way and losing all filters (which can also happen post-children)!
Honestly, I don't know what industry she was working at but there are some industries that are *very* discriminated against woman and moms. So I can understand OOPs desire to keep private.
Every single time I've conflated my work and personal life, it has bitten me in the ass. Every time. So now, I may answer basic questions of my coworkers, but no, we're not going to lunch, or happy hour together. Thank you for the baby shower invite, here's a gift, but I have to RSVP no, etc. I've never had another problem with a job since. Oop has the right idea of it.
This is why a lot of people don’t like to engage with work people because you get psychos like her that feel they are entitled to snoop. All my social media are private for this very reason. Privacy should be respected
I wonder what OOP would say if anyone ever asked her if she was married or had kids, a common question if the topic of one’s own kids come up.
If she ever deflected answering, I can see the employee feeling dismayed, and may be viewed as “less than”.
this comment perturbed me.
> YTA These people want to consider you a real friend, but can't if you won't share basic info about your life. They are not "work people" they are GOD DAMN PEOPLE. People who thought they were your FRIENDS. Such a hard divide between work and home is artificial. You have decided that they are "lesser than" friends because you met them at work. Meanwhile "real friends" that you meet outside of work get to really know you?
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> You reap what you sow.
I'm not a hugely private person, but my coworkers are nowhere remotely close to being "friends." they are my coworkers. They know about me what I let them know, I don't see them outside of work, I don't talk to them outside of work, and that's the way it should be.
I don't want to be mean but I noticed in a few posts that the copied comments are longer than the story and the update itself. Maybe it should be a limit on how many comments you can put in. I was just scrolling and scrolling and most of the comments are not necessary.
idky i think OOPs stance is fine. If youre my coworker, youre only a part of my life when we're at work. Once work is over you stop being a part of my life. There is no reason for you to know things about something youre not a part of. My life is simply none of your business.
I’ve had coworkers that have straight up said they don’t talk about their home lives at work and my response is always “fair enough”. Nobody owes me information about themselves that’s not related to our jobs
The commenters who thought OOP was TA were weird and seemed immature, but the one who was livid and acting like OOP was causing undue psychological trauma to her coworkers was completely insane.
Also, of course OOP's NTA, she just didn't feel like sharing. If the commenters hating on her had any level of office work experience, they'd know there are people like that in every office environment and it's not a personal affront at all. It's not even comment-worthy, it just is, NBD.
When I used Facebook I made it a rule for a long time that I didn’t friend people from work. It just seemed to me like if I wanted to post anything personal, I didn’t want it brought up at work. So if we aren’t the kind of friends where we go to one another houses and hang out, we aren’t Facebook friends either.
OOP may have been overprotective, but I understand. The snoop is a terrible person, hope she never gets promoted.
wtf was with the person blasting her for not wanting to maintain professional relations at work? (As in: not share details of her private life)The what now?
Honestly I wish I'd kept my personal life to myself more when I started my current job, like OOP. I've always been a private person and it feels weird to have people knowing stuff about me. Additionally, my partner is nonbinary, and I REALLY don't want to bring politics to the office, but their very existence is political in our current society.
I really don’t understand people coming after OP. They didn’t lie, they just didn’t proactively offer up info. I have plenty of coworkers like this and the only one I have a problem with is the one who got all offended and complained that he didn’t receive a card and gift upon his marriage like other coworkers did. Which is true, but the omission was because he didn’t tell anyone he was getting married until the complaint was made.
Here OP expects nothing but pleasant small talk which is not harmful to anyone. I’m someone who tends to say too much and I really regret it and am trying to break the habit. Even the person who had been sharing pretty deeply - how had she not noticed that she knew nothing about OP? She never once asked are you in a relationship? Makes me think she just focused on herself and made assumptions about OPand is just miffed that they were wrong and having to realize how little you know about someone probably put too close a mirror on the prior interactions being so one-way.
I’m *almost* just like OOP. I don’t normally talk about my personal life at work (to me, I’m there to do a job, let me do that job).
I have a coworker who tells waaaaay too much info to everyone. She got super offended when I offhandedly mentioned my partner after I’d be at the job for about 4 or 5 years. She asked how long we’d be together and I answered. She then went on to snarkily ask why hadn’t I mentioned him before. I shrugged and said I don’t talk about my personal life at work.
The only time I talk about my personal life is if it’s relevant (“hey boss, need a day off because my partner’s having surgery” type stuff).
I also get the impression OOP works in a fairly dysfunctional workplace (the Melinda issue, the issues with women).
Having worked in a place with dysfunctional management, it really makes it difficult to be candid with colleagues, which makes it difficult to be anything more than politely courteous. It's too difficult to trust anyone not to repeat confidences.
I've been in workplaces where I've made friends and it's great! But I certainly can't judge anyone for 1) wanting to keep work and home separate and 2) not wanting to possibly put a target on her back for having kids, etc.
Everyone here is weird as fuck. The coworkers are weird for being surprised/angry that the person who never answers questions about family has a family. The OOP is very weird for going to such lengths just to avoid telling people that she has a family. Especially since she somehow considers those people friends. The snitch is weird and a massive asshole for digging so hard to find things to tattle on. The boss is weird for letting a snitch get to him so much that he kicks people off projects and hands them to the snitch. And everyone in the field is weird for treating married women so differently.
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This person is so naive, and is probably not a woman or queer. We all know women's personal lives get weaponized against them at the office. If you're married, "Oh she's going to be less reliable because she has to take care of her kids". If you're not married, then you STILL get judgment. You can't win!
> YTA These people want to consider you a real friend, but can't if you won't share basic info about your life. They are not "work people" they are GOD DAMN PEOPLE.
This response is bananas to me. Of course they're people. So is the cashier at the gas station and the person next to you on the bus. But that doesn't mean they're entitled to your personal life or your friendship.
Too many workplaces have confused the idea of being friends and being friendly. You can be perfectly pleasant and warm with someone and not have a personal relationship. You can have real friendships at your job, but it's not mandatory. Real life isn't The Office. OOP might have taken it to an extreme level, but she's within her rights to do so.
Person who thinks I'm their actual friend confiding in me and pouring their heart out to me about their sick child: do you know anyone who can relate to this horrible thing I'm going through?
Me, with a sick child of my own: uh not me.
Reddit: nothing wrong with that, coworkers don't count.
Also me: why is everyone giving me the cold shoulder and not telling me about their personal lives? How immature of them.
I think oop was doing the smart thing here by keeping to themselves; information shared in good faith in workplaces can result in boundaries being crossed, assumptions being made about what you're cool with (you don't have kids so you can work xyz), and if your reasons for not coming in are good enough. Yes it might seem weird to know people for 9 years and not divulge any info but it's not an asshole thing to do. In this era of social media it has become rude to consider anything private.
I worked in a really toxic work environment where it was a brand new program in a hospital. The manager had never managed anyone before and would constantly push me and others to share details about personal life. I felt really uncomfortable with this as I had been in environments before where knowledge was weaponized. She even made it a goal for me to share which I felt was beyond inappropriate. My job should not be riding on the shoulders of me pouring my personal life out to people.
We were in a hospital and there was no place for me to report this as her boss was on board with this nonsense. I also found out one of the coworkers I had become close with was spying for her and reporting back everything we said (boss accidentally told me). It was a huge betrayal because he would ask us things and i thought we were close but he was secretly reporting to her to undermine me. Everyone was encouraged to back stab each other to get in her good graces and some of the workers were purposely targeting me because I had more responsibility. I was getting bullied constantly and people would try and undermine me in meetings and claim I wasn't doing my work which was a lie. They also did everything they could to find out about my personal life (I had health issues) and when I would refuse they would make up stories about why I drank broth instead of having a meal with them, etc.
When I left I refused to inform them of where I was going and I just walked out before my exit interview with the boss and went straight to HR to hand over my work equipment.
Since then I have been more careful about what I reveal to coworkers. You can make real friends at work of course but I learned the signs of when interest is real and when it isn't. It happens way more than we realize. Like that coworker I thought I was close to? He really did a number on me. I sincerely thought we were friends and he, me, and this other girl would hang out outside of work. That other girl was put on probation and then forced to transfer to another department. I believe it's because he was telling the boss things about her too. It's horrible. I really understand why OP does that. You just don't know.
I'm pretty tight with my Facebook and other social media.
Someone who I'm not already Friends with, not even Friends of Friends, can only see my name and my profile pic, and my profile pic is my pet; they can't see posts I've made, who my Friends are, or any personal info. I only accept Friend requests from people I know in real life (or, very rarely, have become pretty good friends with online) *and* would choose to spend time with in person, and have the same standards for who I send Friend requests to. There are people who in fairly small (less than 100 person) hobby-centric Groups that I don't know, trust, or like well enough to Friend, though we often interact well enough within the bounds of those Groups.
I know that what I post on other peoples' pages has whatever privacy settings that person has, and I'm okay with that, I only disclose there things I'm okay with being out there in the ether.
My last in-office job (I've been WFH for several years) I made friends with 4 people in my department (of about 50) well enough to be willing to be Friends with them, partially because I know they understand privacy boundaries; the rest, just no.
I work with a coworker who I worked with at a previous job. And it’s just fucking annoying when she brings shit up I told her to everyone else. Especially in front of our bosses. Where we worked before, we didn’t interact so closely with our bosses but this new job, we do.
I am also very private like OOP due to trauma but the years wore me down and of course I trusted my coworker who I had known for many years at this point.
It’s annoying and I wish she didn’t do it. I spoke to her and it’s better now but people still slip up.
This in itself is a huge reason why WFH can help efficiency. A lot of office time tends to be spent chatting which in moderation can be a good thing and bring up team morale but I've found that it tends to create wasted time and lead to clichés.
While I don’t have kids, I don’t think hiding or downplaying the fact that she had kids was that big of a deal. I’ve read a lot of posts (on Reddit and elsewhere) where pushy coworkers suddenly want to set up playdates and such. Meanwhile those same coworkers are oversharing their relationship and other personal drama to the point where the parent writing the post knows that they’d never want their kids to associate with each other.
I mean what’s more awkward? Those oversharing coworkers never realising that you have kids and suddenly learning about it one day, or those same coworkers feeling some kinda way because it’s become obvious over a period of time that you’re actively avoiding letting your kids befriend their kids?
Depends on the work culture probably. I’ve also had a guy coworker regularly overshare his landlord and family drama to the point where I couldn’t tell if he was trying to hit on me or get his family to move in with me until they could get back on their feet - lots of moaning about finances and mold and pests and looking for a new place, followed by weighty pauses where a naive person would’ve possibly jumped in with an offer to help but I kept my mouth shut. If I’d’ve had kids and unthinkingly shared that info, I’m 75% certain he would’ve come on twice as strong with the tales of woe.
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>found out he has cancer recently but he was also assigned this huge project, very important, time consuming Our boss hands out important projects very rarely and he never hands them out if he has even the slightest idea you can't handle it. Melinda somehow found out from Hank about his diagnosis and two days later she told our boss. Hank was removed from the project all together. Melinda was then assigned to the project along with someone else. This is so fucked up. Isn't it discrimination to remove someone from a project due to medical problem you are not even supposed to know about?
And this is what I find so odd about the anger that OOP is getting. In that office, Hank, Robb and Lucy found out the hard way what happens when you freely share personal information. And those are just from the past year. Yet, a lot of people sound almost insulted that some people do not share the prevailing "we're all a happy family here at the office" attitude. Well, a workplace is not your family. That snitch was the one who was the most blatantly assinine, but their manager certainly didn't mind using the information that she provided them with. And somehow people like OOP are looked at as if they're the ones that are somehow cheating.
The second a workplace tells me I'm 'family' my guard goes all the way up. I've experienced more than one of those and in both cases I left thinking "if that's how you treat someone you consider family, I genuinely feel for those who are merely business partners, colleagues or employees".
I will never ever trust any manager that says "we're a family" after my experience with working at Auntie Anne's. Never. Fucking. Again.
When a coworker says that, my first thought is 'oh shit, you drunk the Kool aid.' A supervisor or manager says that during the interview process, I'm gtfo and looking elsewhere.
Right? Family fucks you over in ways that only family can. "We're all family here!" = "you have no right to complain when we screw you seven ways from sunday. Family just takes it!"
"Family" means alcoholics and flouncing out the door, sooooo......
I'm the same. My current work place is like this but I'm too near retiring too leave.
It’s people treating work like school. Work isn’t social life like school is. I’ve made long term friendships at work, but I would not consider most of my colleagues to be friends. And yet, so many people treat work like a continuation of school, where we make friends and socialize with people. Look at the TIFUs and AITAs where people pay the price for over-sharing at work. It’s best to avoid social drama at work, there’s no good that comes from it.
Well said. The visceral anger some of the commenters have for OOP is staggering. She didn’t tell elaborate lies or snap at anyone trying to ask about her home life. She doesn’t like talking about it. Meanwhile the creepy coworker seems to have gone to great lengths to get info on OOP yet somehow some people think that isn’t as egregious as OOP’s personal policy! Amazingly childish.
>The visceral anger some of the commenters have for OOP is staggering. I've met and worked with some of those types of people. Its the type of person who feels entitled to know who you are outside of what you present at work. What do you do for fun, where do you live, do you have family, etc etc, if you give even the mildest pushback they'll act all indignant and surly. How dare you not want to open up to what is essentially a random stranger. I've been lucky and only had one boss who asked that I just "Be a team player." "Sure boss, where do you live, what do you do for fun, how many kids do you have, are you married, are you planning on being married, who are you dating right now" basically gave them all the questions that person got mad at me for, for not answering that they finally realized that its actually very invasive and that no. You dont owe that other person answers for anything other than work related questions.
>Look at the TIFUs and AITAs where people pay the price for over-sharing at work. It’s best to avoid social drama at work, there’s no good that comes from it. Coming from me, a person who made the mistake of befriending people at work on Facebook, I certainly share this point of view. People digging into personal lives of others to use it as a weapon at work, if not shotgun the info around the workplace because it's entertainment for them, were commonplace. I don't blame OP one bit for rigid boundaries between workplace and personal life.
I learned very quickly after getting my first job that it's a terrible idea to assume that your coworkers are your friends. I've seen people get into trouble for shit they post on their personal social media because they went and added coworkers on there and then complained about work (who doesn't??) etc. And like it or not, your coworkers are sometimes your competitors, too. If you're up for the same handful of promotions, etc. they can easily use what you've told them against you.
They’re the same kind of people that are against WFH and want everyone in the office because they depend on the people at their work to fulfill their social needs. The person that called OOP the asshole proves it by claiming that theres no distinction between work friends and friends. People are not entitled to know anything about your personal life because you’re around them 8 hours a day.
>theres no distinction between work friends and friends. This was so wild to me because there's a huge conflict of interest, actually. Like, all the things that make you human can also affect your work performance which would also affect your co-workers, and by extension, their families. So there's a huge distinction!
I agree. Your co-workers can use things about you to ruin your career, like OP's co-workers. Your actual friends wouldn't do that. Well, unless they are like Melinda.
Also there's the same ethical concerns with coworkers dating; people will not report if their friends do a massive screw up, managers befriending employees are always a mess, etc.
Work friends are also context-based. Very few work friends stay friends after you’re no longer working together, and that’s okay. You were colleagues who socialized, not necessarily the stuff that epic friendships are made of. It’s also unwise to get *too* close to work friends, because work-you should be the least dramatic version of yourself. If your friend gets in a grudge-match with management or just starts performing badly, you need to be able to say, “Sorry, that sucks for you, but I need to protect my career now.”
And keep hose three colleagues in mind. These are people who do not care when office gossip damages their colleagues' careers. As long as they only want something to chat about they are not your "friends", they're not your "work friends", they're enemies. Friends care about you, these people only care about their amusement.
Yeah, I think those who have the anger towards her are probably younger, or bought way too much into the idea of work can be your "family". People should be allowed to share as much as they want, compartmentalize. You do what you have to do, to get through the day. To me, so many times, work has just devolved into high school. So I like to keep a nice medium, so in the end I don't have to deal with the BS. I'm like OP, maybe share a little bit more, but I'm not giving too much away because who knows what could happen? I also just don't get why people need to know so much about everyone else at their work place, if it's not affecting your life, and your co-worker doesn't want to share, leave them to it.
One thousand fucking percent. Wfh has been a godsend to my productivity because I _don’t_ have to deal with bullshit high school caliber office drama!
I lost out on a promotion at an old job (~10 years ago) because I went on vacation and came back talking about how beautiful it was and how I'd like to live there. When they told me I didn't get the job, they said they would have loved to have me in the position but they didn't want to hire me for it if I was just going to be leaving soon. Joke's on them, because the woman they hired instead had just gotten married - she was pregnant within a year, went on maternity leave, and never came back. And I still live within an hour of the office. My earliest jobs were all at super small places of less than 20 employees. Everyone knew everything about everyone else's lives - when they were feeling sick, when they'd been out drinking together the night before, who was fighting with their spouse, whose kids were getting in trouble, who was getting high together after work. You can think "oh it's just my coworkers, it's fine", but you never know who's listening, who's gossiping, and who might get promoted one day and now your direct supervisor knows all your business. I'm very much on OOP's side. I'll talk about work, or sometimes about my hobbies, but I don't get into details about my personal life. I have made friends with coworkers, but we don't act out that friendship at the office, if that makes sense.
And OOP herself mentioned she, being a woman with a family in a predominantly male-dominated field, would already be at a disadvantage right out the gate. Like…yikes. She’s already shared enough to be vulnerable here leave the poor woman alone she already has two kids who like jojo spewa 🤮
I’ve had this exact same scenario play out in my small office. A couple 60+ women coworkers got upset when one guy in our group refused to share personal info. He just deflected or said “I try to keep my private life private, nothing personal.” They had no idea where he lives or if he has kids or where he’s from. I worked with Doug 9 years and I still don’t know anything about him. The insistence on being work friends is not gender based, or even age based IMO. It’s loneliness based. The old ladies considered work their social hour and wanted something to talk about.
Yep, is the lack of community or the so called third spaces. Humans are social animals but current society is build for profit, not qol.
I wonder if it’s anger exactly or if they don’t know what the fuck to do now. Are they supposed to pretend they don’t know this new info? Where is the line now that it’s been blurred by an outsider. I know it would trigger my social anxiety like or crazy.
I agree. People like Melinda are why many people don't share their personal lives. It's none of their business. Your co-workers aren't owed access to your personal life. If you want to talk about your life or not is up to you. Melinda is a terrible person who uses a person's personal life against them in order to get promoted or at least better assignments.
That one comment that said OP is the asshole because they’re not close to their coworkers … saying that OP sees them as “lesser”. What? Idk about anyone else but when I go to work, I am there to work, not to actively make friends and close connections (the genuine ones a a bonus).
Yeah I mean, as far as my personal and social life goes, my coworkers are “lesser.” Not lesser or unworthy human beings but they rank near the bottom for personal relationships.
If OOP is an asshole so am I. I have a pretty hard barrier between my personal life, such as it is, and work. I used to not and my life suffered for it.
AITA commenters probably feel a lot of kinship with the insufferable office snoop.
THIS. I’m neurodivergent and don’t trust most people because frankly, they don’t deserve it. But then I get treated like a freak because how dare I use my pattern recognition to protect myself. Corporate offices are high school v 2.0.
"assinine" I hope that was intentional, that is great. I feel bad for OOP, she was doing just fine until Nosey Nancy decided she needs OOP to be a Kardashian and have her entire life on blast. The commenters that got all butthurt, yeesh, talk about outing yourself as the workplace gossips! I have made friends that were co-workers as someone who is pretty guarded, that said OOP and the like-minded are perfectly valid in just staying in their own lane and being friendly without letting everyone in to their entire world.
Probably depends on where she lives.
Yeah, but Hank has to sue and in another comment OOP mentioned he was living the rest of his life on house boat. Maybe Han's time was too valuable to deal with lawyers and f\*\*\*\* Melinda.
Depending on the prognosis he might not wanna spend the last years of his life fighting a lawsuit. I didn't get the impression it was terminal by any means but it's cancer, you never REALLY know
almost certainly, depending on country and how good their labor laws are, but with a cancer diagnosis close to retirement it makes sense to just retire than deal with all the bullshit if you're not in a country that will make the right easy for you
Yeah, but that was HIS choice to make. Snitchy McAsshole and Bossy McDiscrimination took it from him instead
I was going to rant in agreement with you, but I got distracted by your flair, I love it.
Could be that this project was his last hurrah. I know a few people that put off retirement because they wanted to complete something. A former colleague wanted to do a trade show so he was going to hold off retiring for 6 months for it until the owner told him to retire and they would "rehire" him to run the trade show.
If they’re in the US - most certainly is.
In the UK too, though I'm not sure I'd care to take the fight on if I had a cancer treatment coming my way. Maybe later, when I felt better. The post says he retired to enjoy his last few months so I definitely think I'd have other priorities in that particular case. A real shame that his last memory of the company is of that backstabbing snitch though. Poor man.
As fucked up as it is, maybe Melinda's vile actions actually helped Hank if he was able to sue and retire earlier than expected
In the US, cancer is a condition covered by the ADA. So a company would have to tread carefully regarding how they reacted to learning that information.
>She was given a reprimand and ultimately she quit. I am impressed that the problem ultimately took care of itself.
People like Melinda is a kind of Monster that feeds on attention. Starve them of that and they will move to other hunting grounds.
I had a coworker that went to my boss and complained because I wouldn't tell her any personal information. And my supervisor actually started counseling me about it, ffs. I used to work in HR so as soon as I did the dog-head-tilt my supervisor realized how ridiculous the conversation was about to become. She backpedaled BIG time and said something like "could you try being nicer to her?" and I asked HOW was I *not* being "nice" to her? I am perfectly professional with her, the only thing I refuse to do is gossip with her and share my personal information.
What the what? They should have told her to pound sand and that you're not required to share your private life at all and it's not required to do your job.
Oh I agree, it was so freaking bizarre. I remember thinking "are we seriously having this conversation?" Thankfully that coworker has moved on, she was a piece of work.
>Starve them of that and they will move to other hunting grounds. If your lucky
[“This is my office, also known as the hunting ground.”](https://youtu.be/u_xSilxHFns?si=njSWUMBUbu80QTz4)
Isn't it weird how life works? I've never heard of this show, and yesterday I watched half of the first episode with my niece. So I've seen this part. And now, I've seen it twice, in two days...
Im not gonna click on the link but im 100% is the energy vampire from What We Do In The Shadows, yeah?😂
Ones where they haven't poisoned the well - she'll probably be just as stalky but more circumspect about it.
Yeah this is the main reason imo. She's going to learn to be more subtle. Next time she won't announce this sort of thing, but she'll find ways to make it probable for her to know it. She showed her hand too aggressively and now everyone knows the kind of game she's playing
The moment she's reprimanded, she knows her tricks won't work anymore. Better to quit than stay where she can't advance quickly due to her nasty tactics, or end up being fired because she keeps trying to run the same plays. Quitting proves how awful she is because she'll just be looking for a new pool of victims in a fresh workplace. I guarantee this isn't the first time she's done this.
But not before several people were hurt.
I did say ultimately. There are countless instances of people getting away with this BS and remaining employed where they escalate.
I’ve noticed on my team the trash usually takes itself out.
Wow. Fuck Melinda. That kind of person is *EXACTLY* why OOP separates work from home, and should prove to her she made the right call. I don’t get everyone being mad. I mean, I understand it to a point. But not one of these people even NOTICED that they didn’t know these things (or that OOP was “withholding” information from them) *UNTIL* Melinda spilled the tea. And OOP’s privacy was a universal thing. She didn’t favor anyone. I think people are misplacing anger for the embarrassment they feel for not knowing the things they *think they should know* about a friend.
I agree with you about embarrassment, but less about not noticing. I behave a bit like this (but for different reasons) and people definitely notice, they just assume I have a really boring home life. Like, I live by myself and spend all my spare time watching TV or something. They just think I'm really boring or maybe a workaholic and don't have anything to contribute to the "home life" conversation.
Or are being polite by not prying.
Melinda is usually the kind of co-worker that makes people want to work from home.
People do not like feeling like the other person was "less invested" than them. Or the only person with family stuff. Oop realized the importance with Lucy. Lucy was sharing a lot there, but oop neither allowed themselves to be on equal standing _or_ told her to stop. So now Lucy is going to just feel like she wasn't _worth_ relating to.
Yeah, that tells me those people the coworkers and the YTA/ESH commentors haven't reach the stage of maturity of respecting people's boundaries and privacy.
These people are exactly why others are afraid to share their life at work. It's like they are OWED to know every single thing about you. I like my coworkers but if one felt entitled to know anything about me I would do my best to avoid them. That's doubled with the fact that Melinda uses her infos to get back at people. It's litteraly dangerous for your career to talk to her. I trusted someone once who then changed 90% of my words and made me look like an ass to our managers. I still resent him for it. Don't trust soemone blindly when they can make you get fired.
Yeah, it was wild how many people were upset about her committing the crime of...not wanting to talk about her private life? Such a bizarre sense of entitlement, to feel like she owes you her privacy.
It's interesting no one called out the fact that maybe OOP's coworkers thought she was some forever alone loser and pitied her. Maybe the betrayal they felt came from their misplaced "compassion". That's not to say that is the case, but the outrage must be coming from something else. They're assholes too, but potentially for different reasons.
Or they don't understand the idea of private vs public lives being separate.
> But not one of these people even NOTICED that they didn’t know these things (or that OOP was “withholding” information from them) *UNTIL* Melinda spilled the tea. That's not how people build images of others. Absence of information is in itself information. Unless OOP specifically told them that she is keeping things private, no one will notice anything. Eg. If you're having a talk about the troubles of raising little kids and one person isn't contributing their experiences despite partaking in the talk, then you assume they don't have anything to contribute. You don't assume that one person is keeping something hidden while readily engaging with the equivalent in others. Some anger is justified there. OOP said she redirected prying questions, I.e. it was her hiding information just as much as others incorrectly assuming something. It is reasonable to be upset if someone is partaking in conversation without being open to said conversation.
She. OOP is female
Corrected, my bad.
I absolutely disagree that nobody notices until specifically told. I've a very friendly and chatty person at work. I notice the deflection or avoidance of personal details. I respect it instead of pulling a Melinda. Some of the "work is work, private life is private" people are hard to work with. Not because of that stance, but because the people who keep close mouthed aren't talkative (generally speaking), so getting work details from them can easily become a game of 20 questions.
I don't begrudge OP her privacy, to each their own, but my partner is such a huge part of my day to day that when I have to be in spaces where I can't bring her up for safety reasons (we're both ladies) mentally pruning her from the conversation is absolutely exhausting. I have to catch myself so many times to keep from saying things like "Oh my fiancé actually made me watch that last week it was really good" or "when I was on the east coast visiting my partner's family." The information doesn't feel complete to me without the 'why' of it and leaving that off always feels like lying by omission. Even though it's not really necessary in the preamble to say I watched a certain TV show or I went somewhere interesting on vacation.
I think it’s interesting because it highlights a difference in what OOP views as good friendship vs maybe what her coworkers think. I think it’s reasonable to have a general understanding of someone’s personal life to consider them a friend. Otherwise, they are just someone I work with. But maybe OOP doesn’t feel the same. I just wonder how she avoided questions about her life for so long and managed to build friendships with people. Did she just straight up lie or say she didn’t want to talk about it?
They clearly noticed, OOP even mentioned at the beginning that she is regarded with an aura of mystery in the office. Melinda is awful, but I can understand why some people would feel hurt or confused.
Well, I wish OOP well if they do move to a new country as that would be tough. (As long as there are no Melinda's in the new office, they should be fine)
Especially because a couple of months later, a pandemic happened, and nobody will be moving anywhere.
Melinda will be a Melinda to headaches.
I work with someone like OOP. Doesn't give any personal information. That's fine. I respect that and don't ask personal questions. Just as an example, they are relatively new, and I had to do some job training with them. (Me doing the training for them to learn) I asked what they had done in previous work. Their answer: "Working in travel." They didn't follow with any extra information. So I left it at that. Some people are more private than others, and I respect that. If they want to volunteer more info, they will. If not, it's no skin off my nose. Also, I don't socialise with workmates outside work myself.
You never know who has had a hectic/difficult background, who might have an AVO out on an abusive ex who has threatened their life, who might not be comfortable coming out about different parts of their identity at work, who might be using work to escape awful things in their personal life, etc etc etc. A person may not like that their colleague won't spill the tea, but unless their colleague isn't doing their job properly what does it matter? And even then, there are processes and governance that gets followed, and it's related only to what they do at work. I mean, fuck. OOP could have been in a same sex marriage in a location/industry where it would have been an instant shutdown. Melinda outing them could have been physically dangerous.
I have had someone on my team now for two years and I don't know his partner's name, even. We've discussed intensely personal topics, including multiple discussions of politics and values, but he doesn't talk about his personal life and that's 100% his prerogative actually.
Melinda is a fucking snake.
I will never blame a professional woman for not blasting her motherhood at work. Work treats moms worse.
Especially in male-dominated fields. Being married and having kids is an advantage for men professionally because they get to be the family man, but it’s a complete disadvantage for women. I don’t fault OOP at all.
It’s also a thing where some men will hit on you if they think you’re single but plenty of others specifically target women who are married and/or have kids. I’d never fault another woman for wanting to preemptively cut off an entire potential sub-group of trashy flirters.
OOP actually said in one of her comments that her field is dominated by men, and she had seen many women not get promotions, etc. because managers didn’t have faith in married women with children being good employees. She was protecting herself from the sexism that is inherent in her field.
I'm very curious on what caused the complaints and making Melinda quit. If anything, the coworkers were pissed at OOP not Melinda. What other crap did she pull? Or my theory; since OOP is now ok with her coworkers now after Melinda has quit. Me wonders if Melinda invading the others privacy made them realise *why* OOP was private in the first place and decided to be ok with her after that. But thank god HR was on OOPs side cause I was worrying they would be *that* HR where they would say, it's public Facebook, not our problem.
It sounds like Melinda was a low-level problem who managed to keep her manoeuvring and backstabbing under the radar most of the time. There were probably several people in the company who'd had an issue with her, but not a large enough one to want to stick their neck out and complain for fear of it reflecting worse on them than on her. Once OOP had HR involved anyway, those people might have thought, "Well, I may as well mention it now, because it won't be just me."
Funny, that's how most things go with these situations. In fact, wasn't this how MeToo got started?
I assume it's the result of this... > We hired Melinda last year and she took it upon herself to become the office snoop. She spent several weeks getting as close to everyone as possible. However, she does this to seek out potentially useful information she can hold over peoples head.
On the one hand, it was probably too much to Melinda that no one was talking with her anymore. Those kind of people get their sustenance of being the center of attention. OTOH, it's possible only OOP had realized what was going on with her before, and with the new case being a lot more public, with her being bold enough to announce OOP's "secrets", people put two and two together on what had happened before. Or a combo of both
I get it. I've never gone to the same extremes that OOP did, but I also do NOT tell anything to co-workers or managers about my personal life beyond the very superficial. They know I'm married, I'll mention my wife. Some hobbies may come up, but I never really talk about my plans (not that I ever have a lot). I don't talk about my larger family or friends. I certainly don't tell them about mental or physical health issues going on among my friends/family or myself, unless I have to (to HR/managers for illnesses and such).
I talk about my personal life because it makes it easier to take time off it they think/knows it's to help my son.
Same. Although it's a bit different for me because I'm a self-employed pet sitter, so I don't have co-workers, only clients. When I'm being interviewed by new ones, one of the things I go over is the two weeks out of the year I for sure leave town (to see my parents), and what my backup plans are in case I'm sick or injured beyond working, or one or both of my parents suddenly die. Beyond my experience working with animals in the past, it's really all they need to know about me. The part that sucks for me is that sometimes they bring up politics out of nowhere, and I have to whip out my powers of redirection (unfunnily enough, honed to perfection thanks to my parents) to get back on track. Lord knows how many of my regulars would drop me if they knew I used pronouns.
> They know I'm married, I'll mention my wife. Some hobbies may come up, but I never really talk about my plans (not that I ever have a lot). I don't talk about my larger family or friends. I think this is normal. OOP however seems very closed off.
For someone who cherishes her private life OOP gave a lot of information to a bunch of random internet strangers. Also fuck Melinda, she's the kind of person that makes you split your personal life from work.
Yes, and she also gave a lot of details about other colleagues as well.
I wasn't overly private until one of my "work friends" told HR something I said ... but like SUPER deformed and changed and which would totally made me look like a fool. I can't swear it was the reason my training time was stopped later, but let's say I'm 100% it didn't helped. Anything you say at work can be used against you. And you never really know who you can trust.
Melinda sounds exhausting and mean-spirited. I'm glad this turned out well for OP in the end.
I make sure my coworkers know all about my wife and kids. I mean, I'm not taking all that time off for myself....as far as they know.
Ipgee: So I said, "Your request for a date is most flattering Leela, but I'm afraid I must decline. These office romances never work out. After all, that is how I met my horrible wife." Leela: But you never wore a ring, I didn't know you had a wife. Ipgee: And my wife doesn't know I have a job, I keep my personal and professional life separate.
Such a tiny detail but isn’t it pretty fucked up to ground a seven year old for a bad test score???
I'd much rather have a coworker like OOP over the chronic oversharer I *do* work with. I don't want to hear about her "oh so tragic" dating life, why her kids don't want anything to do with her this week, or the whining about the consequences of decisions she made herself. I know way more than any person ever should, and that shit's exhausting.
OOP has every right to privacy and it's really not a big deal especially in a work place. My only pet peeve is when people like OOP still want a level of connection that requires more depth and/or get confused when ppl who considered her a friend are hurt by her lack of openness. It's not at all an obligation I just mean you gotta prepare yourself for humans to act human. If you keep parts of your life separate they'll assume it's either due to dislike or distrust, that's just natural. If you're work friends and you choose to keep them out of your private life to the extent that OOP does, they'll fill in the blanks on why and it won't be this generous, neutral opinion. Ppl are rarely emotionally mature enough to understand that even as adults. It's nbd to OOP bc it's their life...they aren't shutting the door on themselves and can't perceive how others may interpret her actions as a rejection. I just get annoyed that they're making these boundaries and not fully understanding them or how it affects their relationships. They're all "it's nothing personal" when it quite literally is personal; what you mean is is that it's not personally against them as ppl. You just like to separate things for your own comfort.
agreed. oop seems to have barely realized this.
I don't get the ESH and YTA responses. Like personally, even if I worked somewhere for a long time or have bonded with co-workers very closely by then, I'd still would rather have my personal life to be private. I feel that it's my own life and not others to be involved.
I’m just curious if any coworkers have surely asked “so do you have kids” is her response “i don’t wish to discuss my private life”. Like some of the stuff she chooses not to talk about seems like they would come up at some point in 9 years.
It seemed like she was good at brushing them off ot changing the subject.
Yeah like I get not wanting your personal life at work and fully respect that. But it would be near impossible to have a productive relationship without at least *some* private life info. Talking about my random hobbies (which are not at all status/rich people hobbies) is how I feel I ultimately got most of my jobs, from min wage food service to highly skilled (non public facing) office jobs. There are plenty of people that can do a job, but some connection and feeling for someone being interesting (and interested) is so key. It’s also how I remember random consultants and am more likely reach out to them again because I actually remember them. Sounds like she is a good worker but with the personality of a chair.
My coworkers have no idea I have a kid but gave him up. I just say I don’t have kids because then that’s all they want to talk about and the whys I don’t have him and why I don’t have more. It’s easier to just say I don’t have any because they don’t need to know the whole mess and it would involve getting into things I’d rather not.
I think avoiding a specific topic is OK. Besides, it doesn't seem like you have a child at home so it's hardly a lie. People are just trying to understand who you are / hobbies / what you do outside of work. I think it's strange that someone's 'specific topic' is everything outside the office. If you don't want coworkers to know you, then you might as well just not engage with them outside of work tasks.
>I don’t get the ESH and YTA responses Especially when OOP said in her original post that Melinda decided to share this information as an announcement to everyone. That’s simply insane behavior.
Or use that information to get ahead or sabotage her colleagues… like wtf… that is my worse nightmare. After seeing what Melinda did to her three colleagues, u would think that the common sense thing to do is to keep your mouth shut about your private life
I think it's because of the level OOP went to? Like, she didn't even say she was married or anything in nine years? She says "I've made some great friendships at work. There are more things to talk about than my husband and my kids." But then also says NOTHING else about herself? And how do you have great friendships at work if they know absolutely nothing about you? Plus, she was fine to soak up all the details about their lives like with Lucy, but she couldn't even offer up that she was married? If she didn't want to discuss her personal life, that's fine, but when someone else was confiding in her like that, she should have said something like "I'd rather not discuss our personal lives together." And then she got upset her coworkers only talked with her about work after everything came out...
For me it also really depends how she was keeping this stuff private. If someone asked her a direct question like if she has a partner, did she not give an answer/change the subject/say she didn’t want to talk about her private life, or did she actually say no? Just avoiding giving details of your personal life is totally fine - I do that at work myself - but I can understand her coworkers finding it quite weird if she was actively lying about things.
I’m leaning more in your direction on this one. I think OOP’s coworkers had a shared realization that OOP is weirdly sterile and maybe not that particularly great to talk to. It’s fine to want to keep your social contributions strictly business, but you shouldn’t be surprised if your coworkers respond in kind.
OP: "Melinda discovered who I was outside of work! Report to HR!" Also OP: "Nobody wants to discover anything about me anymore. :("
She mentions repeatedly that she has a handful of hobbies she discusses with coworkers. It seems more like she kept work and family more separate than work and personal overall. I also don't see why she has to force her level of distance to be a two-way street. For instance, I am entirely private about my sexuality (in the broadest sense of the word) with everyone but my husband, but I have no problem listening to friends talk about it - even the ones who like to go into detail about whatever kink orgy they went to recently. Surely they're well aware that I don't reciprocate at this point but that's unrelated to my willingness to hear out a person who wants to share. OOP's biggest mistake, as she acknowledges, was probably maintaining this level of distance with a coworker who sought comfort and camaraderie in her the way Lucy did, particularly not offering her own (different, but related) story when explicitly prompted.
You don't have to tell them everything your son ate for breakfast or how many divorces you had before your current spouse. It just seems super strange to refuse to even admit that you are married or have kids to people that you consider friends. I'm having trouble even thinking of ways you would dodge questions like "Do you have any kids?" without seeming like a weirdo.
There’s private, and then there’s not knowing someone has a husband and kids after 9 years at the same company.
Man, I will share my family drama with anyone who stands still long enough (Look, sometimes you get a text and the only possible response is to grab the nearest person and say "CAN I TELL YOU ABOUT DUBIOUSLY LEGAL LITERAL MONKEY BUSINESS???") and even I'm like "Nah, OOP was within her rights there." Especially if she felt like her career could be effected by what people think they know about her!
You can tell me about dubiously legal literal monkey business anytime you want!!
I feel so seen lol I
>CAN I TELL YOU ABOUT DUBIOUSLY LEGAL LITERAL MONKEY BUSINESS??? My SO sends me a voice clip with 'Do you wanna hear some bullshit?' to the tune of "Do You Want to Build a Snowman"
That post where the person was trying to say the coworkers were just trying to be treated like people was so ridiculous. It's not like the OOP was being rude to them. They're co-workers, not friends. The vast majority of co-workers won't talk to you again if you're no longer working together, that's not the type of relationship that deserves nurturing.
I think the difference is that OOP describes them as friends, which makes her behaviour a little odd. Not terrible, just odd.
Then let them stay coworkers and not friends! Fuck Melinda. I think the ESH votes were because of Lucy, and the only person I feel OP wronged here is her. What a way to find out that your very close friend who you thought you shared intimacy and trust with, sees you as surface level.
Yes exactly. I’m glad OOP realized she might have gone too far here. I’m curious as to how much she was straight up with people about not wanting to discuss personal things and how many times she told white lies to dodge questions. I can definitely see how the latter would make people feel betrayed and not trust her. It’s totally fair to value privacy at work, but I think it’s important to be straight up and keep things professional then (ie, don’t let a coworker tell you about her son’s health struggles)
Exactly. It’s fine to have boundaries, but you don’t get to keep those boundaries for yourself secretly, while withholding the fact that those boundaries even exist. It takes away Lucy’s agency to make her own decisions and set boundaries too. “I feel for you and am here to support, but I don’t want to discuss my personal topics” is wildly different from “I don’t have any parts of my life that relate to this” when you DO. One is a boundary, one is a lie by omission if not an outright lie. And to get upset that your coworkers who found out you were holding them at arms length, beginning to do the same to you? It’s not retaliation, it’s reevaluation. Shes been with that team for 3 years, hardly strangers. “Why are these people who I’m not friends with, not being friends with me after finding out I don’t view them as friends!” like girl?? cmon. you can’t be THIS dense about interpersonal relationships.
Thanks for fleshing this out. I knew I felt uneasy but also on the ops side, and this is why. She wasn't upfront about not wanting to be personal while letting someone else be very personal with her.
>They're co-workers, not friends She calls them friends though. That's a big part of why I think she's at least a weirdo if not a bit of an asshole. You can't consider someone a friend and then also treat them as someone who doesn't deserve to know that you have a family.
>They're co-workers, not friends. Yeeeeep. I made the mistake of treating coworkers as friends in my early 20s. Bit me in the ass. I am MUCH more tight-lipped about my personal life now. I'm not as tight lipped as OOP, but I certainly can respect her desire for privacy.
Except she calls them her "work friends". Gotta put disclaimer that I'm not saying she's in the wrong for not sharing her personal info lest I get downvoted into oblivion, but there's obviously a disconnect between the perceived level of closeness. Looks like some of them got very close to her, while she's not letting them get close to her, while by her own description acting sort of like a therapist to one "friend". You'd think her boundary of "I don't want to talk about my private life at work" would also extend to others' private lives, but nope! She says she told Lucy "nah, can't relate" and then describes to *us* a very similar circumstance (OOP must be aware it would be a valid answer to that question, otherwise she'd not put that in the post). It's really no mystery why Lucy got upset with her and OOP realized that.
I think OOP took it to such an extreme that she sounds like a cold psychopath. I would be wary as well if I didn’t even know she was married. I don’t need to know the daughter is gay, or the sister in jail. But being married with twins? That’s like the minimum
Exactly, the people who think that you're OBLIGATED to share your private life with your coworkers have never had to deal with office gossips who will weaponize your personal life, esp. if you're a woman/queer/or other minority at the office.
I really hate that this Melinda told the boss that Robb was looking for another job. This is why you keep this very much under wraps and only expose that information after you send in your resignation. In my workplace my co-workers wouldn't even share what company they are moving to until they have already started working there.
>Exactly, the people who think that you're OBLIGATED to share your private life with your coworkers You're not obligated to, but that doesn't mean it's not fucking weird for people you've known for years to not even know you're married or have kids. Even if she didn't *technically* lie about it being completely unwilling to share such surface level information with people you're apparently friends with definitely comes across like you're hiding it and it's perfectly reasonable for people to have been a bit offended by that.
I would give OP the side eye a little. Almost everyone I've worked with can't shut up about thier family. And that's fine with me. Listening politely is sometimes the only break I get.
Honestly I'd have just straight up told HR that Melinda has a history of getting ahead by bringing personal information about others to work and essentially stealing their work, was Melinda sleeping with the boss or something??
What is up with people putting their noses in other people’s business
I admire OOP's ability to keep their mouth shut about most things non work related, but wouldn't it end up tiring trying to remember what you have or haven't told people? If she's OK to share her hobbies, but noone knows she has a husband or daughter, what would she do if someone asked who she was making a knitted hat for and it was for her daughter? Would she lie? And then how does she remember the lie? I get not oversharing but all the black hole non information sounds exhausting.
Thank you all for giving me a different perspective about privacy, especially as OOP later revealed her profession/that workplace penalizes women with children. I also appreciate that OOP has shifted her viewpoint a little, teeny bit as well.
If you spend time in the pregnancy/parenting subs, it regularly comes up that you should **not** voluntarily disclose a pregnancy during hiring, promotion review, or other work evaluations. HR flat-out doesn’t want to know protected information, since knowing places them in a position of real, subconscious, or perceived discrimination, all of which makes their job harder. I can see that wisdom applying to entire industries. I personally wouldn’t want to work in a field that would discount me the moment they knew I had kids, but I absolutely understand taking steps to mitigate that perennial harm.
I am a very privite person at work. Not this level. But I understand what OOP does. Melinda was a drama starter. Glad she's gone and OOP is back to where she was with her coworkers.
OOP is a retired CIA. Lol
Obviously OOP is NTA. No one is obligated to divulge personal information at work. If you want to keep it strictly business, that’s fine. But I would be dishonest if I said that OOP’s extreme level of privacy wasn’t bizarre. What stuck out to me is her statement about living in a small town that’s an hour outside of her workplace’s city to maintain distance between her professional and personal lives. I’m not sure what could reasonably warrant that level of separation.
Yeah I can also understand not wanting your coworkers to know absolutely everything about yourself, like how your brother is a recovering crack addict, or how your homophobic parents disowned your trans sister. But not even wanting them to know you're married with kids is a bit much innit? What does OOP do when they need to take an afternoon off to take their kids for a doctor's appointment? Or check out early to head to their recital/ sports meet etc?
Honestly, the way it reads makes it sound like OOP shares *nothing* about herself. As in, she wouldn’t even answer something like, “Have you seen *Dune 2* yet?” That level of secrecy comes off as hyper-controlling or uppity, both of which are off-putting. I still don’t think OOP is an asshole or in the wrong, but it’s not a winning personality trait, and I understand why her coworkers decided to shrug her off beyond obligatory work duties.
I think she thinks a little too highly of herself. Her coworkers view her as an "enigma" and she's made great friendships at work yet those people don't know she has a husband and kids? Plus as you point out she lives an hour away for space? I think she enjoys creating the mystery. She wants to be viewed as this mystifying person that no one has a grasp on. That in no way excuses Melinda though.
It makes me think about what OOP tells her friends outside of work. Is she also this mysterious with her softball buddies?
She also seems to have separate relationships for each aspect of her life perfectly compartmentalized. She organizes her life in pretty much the same way they show government ops and terrorist cells work in tv . No one knows more than they need to function.
Multiple complaints you say? Like how she gave out another employees personal information and then he was negatively affected by it? EEOC could have entered that chat pretty quickly from there. I love it when people throw out the term “hostile work environment” rather than toxic or dysfunctional. There’s no legal definition to the latter two terms but there is for Hostile. Good on OOP though for immediately going to HR to file this complaint. Whether or not Melinda used company time or equipment doesn’t matter because she took to sharing OOOs personal info to everyone. Melinda obviously is 🥜
Good on OOP for going to HR. It’s okay to want privacy at work, and colleagues should respect that. Mine found it odd that I had nothing personal on display at my desk. No photos, no wallpaper of my fam on my computer or phone. When they asked why, I said I remember what my family looks like 🤣
People like Melinda are exactly why people hesitate to share stuff at work.
I don’t have any of my coworkers on facebook or insta. I do not mix business with pleasure.
I do *not* understand what the fuck people have against "the concept of privacy". Some shit just isn't anyone else's goddamn business.
I think people are horrible at balancing privacy. Not sharing anything *ever* to some "great friendships at work" is not healthy. I think it's entirely reasonable to have created some strain with her coworkers for being so relentlessly private. Do you want to talk about your family and their shortcomings? Obviously not. Is there a middle ground between that and saying absolutely nothing for 9 years? Absolutely. I think it's super disingenuous that you imply otherwise.
Because at a certain point it becomes antisocial behavior and that bothers the lizard part of our brains since social cohesion and trust are big behavioral reasons why our species has thrived so much.
It's also weird people are acting like it's a betrayal for OOP not to say, "hey, I won't confide in you in return", when someone shares something personal. They're adults, they should realise they don't know anything about OOP's family, it doesn't need a disclaimer. I've worked with people before who were quite private, and got along with them fine, lots of hobby chat like OOP - but I knew I didn't know important things about them and that they dodged such questions (so I didn't keep asking obviously). It seems to me like you'd have to be quite self-centred not to realise your colleague you tell lots of intimate details to hasn't ever shared anything on the same level. But maybe I'm just overly conscious of that because I tend to be an oversharer. I try to gauge people's comfort with personal topics so I don't bombard them with my life when they have no interest in it... The exception is if OOP was "deflecting" in such a way that a reasonable person would assume it was an answer - eg "Do you have any kids?", "Do you think I'd have time to do my make-up so nicely if I had kids?". Not a technical lie, but it strongly implies the answer is no, so essentially a lie. Then everything the colleagues thought they knew about OOP is suddenly in question and she would suddenly seem very disingenuous.
It's not about a legal right to privacy. It's about the social consequences of acting like a bit of a weirdo. OP is experiencing those consequences. She didn't do anything morally or legally wrong, but this isn't a courtroom and we're not talking about ethics.
This had a pretty satisfying ending. Melinda quit. All her hard work throwing others under the bus was for nothing 🤣. OOP realizing she’s kinda a weirdo and going to work on that, but still remains her classy hardworking self.
I block co workers immediately so I don't have this problem
I hope she and Lucy made it up properly - it sounds like she felt her stomach drop when she realised that Lucy had genuine grounds to feel hurt. Her concerns about protecting her career - especially when their boss is evidently quick to act on their judgements - do make her decisions to not publicly project herself, within the office, as a wife and mother to two including a medically vulnerable child, make sense. But she notes that she was pretty sure one of the guys in the office thought she had kids before bumping into him and his family in her home town; it sounds like she wasn't opposed to people knowing necessarily, so much as discussing it at work, and it prejudicing her career - and also that she perhaps liked having a space where she was "OOP, [Job Title], fab colleague, doesn't gossip but a good listener. Hobbies include handicrafts, singing and hiking" _first_ and not defined in relation to other people. She did take it to extremes, but it's probably better than going the other way and losing all filters (which can also happen post-children)!
Honestly, I don't know what industry she was working at but there are some industries that are *very* discriminated against woman and moms. So I can understand OOPs desire to keep private.
Every single time I've conflated my work and personal life, it has bitten me in the ass. Every time. So now, I may answer basic questions of my coworkers, but no, we're not going to lunch, or happy hour together. Thank you for the baby shower invite, here's a gift, but I have to RSVP no, etc. I've never had another problem with a job since. Oop has the right idea of it.
This is why a lot of people don’t like to engage with work people because you get psychos like her that feel they are entitled to snoop. All my social media are private for this very reason. Privacy should be respected
> AITA for hiding my personal life at work? no, don't even need more context at that point, the answer is always no
I wonder what OOP would say if anyone ever asked her if she was married or had kids, a common question if the topic of one’s own kids come up. If she ever deflected answering, I can see the employee feeling dismayed, and may be viewed as “less than”.
this comment perturbed me. > YTA These people want to consider you a real friend, but can't if you won't share basic info about your life. They are not "work people" they are GOD DAMN PEOPLE. People who thought they were your FRIENDS. Such a hard divide between work and home is artificial. You have decided that they are "lesser than" friends because you met them at work. Meanwhile "real friends" that you meet outside of work get to really know you? > > You reap what you sow. I'm not a hugely private person, but my coworkers are nowhere remotely close to being "friends." they are my coworkers. They know about me what I let them know, I don't see them outside of work, I don't talk to them outside of work, and that's the way it should be.
I don't want to be mean but I noticed in a few posts that the copied comments are longer than the story and the update itself. Maybe it should be a limit on how many comments you can put in. I was just scrolling and scrolling and most of the comments are not necessary.
Agreed, it's easy enough to click over to the OP if people want to read that many of the comments. A few standouts should be enough here
There's at least one Melinda in every work place.
idky i think OOPs stance is fine. If youre my coworker, youre only a part of my life when we're at work. Once work is over you stop being a part of my life. There is no reason for you to know things about something youre not a part of. My life is simply none of your business.
I’m most concerned that a 7 year old was grounded for a bad test score…
I’ve had coworkers that have straight up said they don’t talk about their home lives at work and my response is always “fair enough”. Nobody owes me information about themselves that’s not related to our jobs
Melinda is the specific reason for ppl like the OOP maintaining a low profile at work. Melinda is crazy.
The commenters who thought OOP was TA were weird and seemed immature, but the one who was livid and acting like OOP was causing undue psychological trauma to her coworkers was completely insane. Also, of course OOP's NTA, she just didn't feel like sharing. If the commenters hating on her had any level of office work experience, they'd know there are people like that in every office environment and it's not a personal affront at all. It's not even comment-worthy, it just is, NBD.
Don't bring your work home, don't bring your home to work.
When I used Facebook I made it a rule for a long time that I didn’t friend people from work. It just seemed to me like if I wanted to post anything personal, I didn’t want it brought up at work. So if we aren’t the kind of friends where we go to one another houses and hang out, we aren’t Facebook friends either. OOP may have been overprotective, but I understand. The snoop is a terrible person, hope she never gets promoted.
wtf was with the person blasting her for not wanting to maintain professional relations at work? (As in: not share details of her private life)The what now?
Honestly I wish I'd kept my personal life to myself more when I started my current job, like OOP. I've always been a private person and it feels weird to have people knowing stuff about me. Additionally, my partner is nonbinary, and I REALLY don't want to bring politics to the office, but their very existence is political in our current society.
I really don’t understand people coming after OP. They didn’t lie, they just didn’t proactively offer up info. I have plenty of coworkers like this and the only one I have a problem with is the one who got all offended and complained that he didn’t receive a card and gift upon his marriage like other coworkers did. Which is true, but the omission was because he didn’t tell anyone he was getting married until the complaint was made. Here OP expects nothing but pleasant small talk which is not harmful to anyone. I’m someone who tends to say too much and I really regret it and am trying to break the habit. Even the person who had been sharing pretty deeply - how had she not noticed that she knew nothing about OP? She never once asked are you in a relationship? Makes me think she just focused on herself and made assumptions about OPand is just miffed that they were wrong and having to realize how little you know about someone probably put too close a mirror on the prior interactions being so one-way.
I’m *almost* just like OOP. I don’t normally talk about my personal life at work (to me, I’m there to do a job, let me do that job). I have a coworker who tells waaaaay too much info to everyone. She got super offended when I offhandedly mentioned my partner after I’d be at the job for about 4 or 5 years. She asked how long we’d be together and I answered. She then went on to snarkily ask why hadn’t I mentioned him before. I shrugged and said I don’t talk about my personal life at work. The only time I talk about my personal life is if it’s relevant (“hey boss, need a day off because my partner’s having surgery” type stuff).
I get the impression that OOP is a good listener!
I also get the impression OOP works in a fairly dysfunctional workplace (the Melinda issue, the issues with women). Having worked in a place with dysfunctional management, it really makes it difficult to be candid with colleagues, which makes it difficult to be anything more than politely courteous. It's too difficult to trust anyone not to repeat confidences. I've been in workplaces where I've made friends and it's great! But I certainly can't judge anyone for 1) wanting to keep work and home separate and 2) not wanting to possibly put a target on her back for having kids, etc.
Everyone here is weird as fuck. The coworkers are weird for being surprised/angry that the person who never answers questions about family has a family. The OOP is very weird for going to such lengths just to avoid telling people that she has a family. Especially since she somehow considers those people friends. The snitch is weird and a massive asshole for digging so hard to find things to tattle on. The boss is weird for letting a snitch get to him so much that he kicks people off projects and hands them to the snitch. And everyone in the field is weird for treating married women so differently.
> > > > > > This person is so naive, and is probably not a woman or queer. We all know women's personal lives get weaponized against them at the office. If you're married, "Oh she's going to be less reliable because she has to take care of her kids". If you're not married, then you STILL get judgment. You can't win!
> YTA These people want to consider you a real friend, but can't if you won't share basic info about your life. They are not "work people" they are GOD DAMN PEOPLE. This response is bananas to me. Of course they're people. So is the cashier at the gas station and the person next to you on the bus. But that doesn't mean they're entitled to your personal life or your friendship. Too many workplaces have confused the idea of being friends and being friendly. You can be perfectly pleasant and warm with someone and not have a personal relationship. You can have real friendships at your job, but it's not mandatory. Real life isn't The Office. OOP might have taken it to an extreme level, but she's within her rights to do so.
Person who thinks I'm their actual friend confiding in me and pouring their heart out to me about their sick child: do you know anyone who can relate to this horrible thing I'm going through? Me, with a sick child of my own: uh not me. Reddit: nothing wrong with that, coworkers don't count. Also me: why is everyone giving me the cold shoulder and not telling me about their personal lives? How immature of them.
For real. At least she realized at the end how she might've hurt the work friend, Reddit mostly seems to ignore that part
Melinda's not the only one at that company that needed to be purged, Boss and HR should go as well.
I think oop was doing the smart thing here by keeping to themselves; information shared in good faith in workplaces can result in boundaries being crossed, assumptions being made about what you're cool with (you don't have kids so you can work xyz), and if your reasons for not coming in are good enough. Yes it might seem weird to know people for 9 years and not divulge any info but it's not an asshole thing to do. In this era of social media it has become rude to consider anything private.
I worked in a really toxic work environment where it was a brand new program in a hospital. The manager had never managed anyone before and would constantly push me and others to share details about personal life. I felt really uncomfortable with this as I had been in environments before where knowledge was weaponized. She even made it a goal for me to share which I felt was beyond inappropriate. My job should not be riding on the shoulders of me pouring my personal life out to people. We were in a hospital and there was no place for me to report this as her boss was on board with this nonsense. I also found out one of the coworkers I had become close with was spying for her and reporting back everything we said (boss accidentally told me). It was a huge betrayal because he would ask us things and i thought we were close but he was secretly reporting to her to undermine me. Everyone was encouraged to back stab each other to get in her good graces and some of the workers were purposely targeting me because I had more responsibility. I was getting bullied constantly and people would try and undermine me in meetings and claim I wasn't doing my work which was a lie. They also did everything they could to find out about my personal life (I had health issues) and when I would refuse they would make up stories about why I drank broth instead of having a meal with them, etc. When I left I refused to inform them of where I was going and I just walked out before my exit interview with the boss and went straight to HR to hand over my work equipment. Since then I have been more careful about what I reveal to coworkers. You can make real friends at work of course but I learned the signs of when interest is real and when it isn't. It happens way more than we realize. Like that coworker I thought I was close to? He really did a number on me. I sincerely thought we were friends and he, me, and this other girl would hang out outside of work. That other girl was put on probation and then forced to transfer to another department. I believe it's because he was telling the boss things about her too. It's horrible. I really understand why OP does that. You just don't know.
I'm pretty tight with my Facebook and other social media. Someone who I'm not already Friends with, not even Friends of Friends, can only see my name and my profile pic, and my profile pic is my pet; they can't see posts I've made, who my Friends are, or any personal info. I only accept Friend requests from people I know in real life (or, very rarely, have become pretty good friends with online) *and* would choose to spend time with in person, and have the same standards for who I send Friend requests to. There are people who in fairly small (less than 100 person) hobby-centric Groups that I don't know, trust, or like well enough to Friend, though we often interact well enough within the bounds of those Groups. I know that what I post on other peoples' pages has whatever privacy settings that person has, and I'm okay with that, I only disclose there things I'm okay with being out there in the ether. My last in-office job (I've been WFH for several years) I made friends with 4 people in my department (of about 50) well enough to be willing to be Friends with them, partially because I know they understand privacy boundaries; the rest, just no.
I work with a coworker who I worked with at a previous job. And it’s just fucking annoying when she brings shit up I told her to everyone else. Especially in front of our bosses. Where we worked before, we didn’t interact so closely with our bosses but this new job, we do. I am also very private like OOP due to trauma but the years wore me down and of course I trusted my coworker who I had known for many years at this point. It’s annoying and I wish she didn’t do it. I spoke to her and it’s better now but people still slip up.
This in itself is a huge reason why WFH can help efficiency. A lot of office time tends to be spent chatting which in moderation can be a good thing and bring up team morale but I've found that it tends to create wasted time and lead to clichés.
While I don’t have kids, I don’t think hiding or downplaying the fact that she had kids was that big of a deal. I’ve read a lot of posts (on Reddit and elsewhere) where pushy coworkers suddenly want to set up playdates and such. Meanwhile those same coworkers are oversharing their relationship and other personal drama to the point where the parent writing the post knows that they’d never want their kids to associate with each other. I mean what’s more awkward? Those oversharing coworkers never realising that you have kids and suddenly learning about it one day, or those same coworkers feeling some kinda way because it’s become obvious over a period of time that you’re actively avoiding letting your kids befriend their kids? Depends on the work culture probably. I’ve also had a guy coworker regularly overshare his landlord and family drama to the point where I couldn’t tell if he was trying to hit on me or get his family to move in with me until they could get back on their feet - lots of moaning about finances and mold and pests and looking for a new place, followed by weighty pauses where a naive person would’ve possibly jumped in with an offer to help but I kept my mouth shut. If I’d’ve had kids and unthinkingly shared that info, I’m 75% certain he would’ve come on twice as strong with the tales of woe.