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My daughters FIL to be just finished his registration period to be a clinical psychologist. He's literally beating his children at home, and broke his step son's arm, whilst also making sexually suggestive comments to my (then underage) daughter.
I cannot fathom a world in which vulnerable people go to him for support. He's only using this role as leverage to be a predator and it shall not be a surprise when he gets in trouble for whatever he's going to do.
I just hate that the worst I can do is anonymously report him.
I know there are amazing therapists out there but all the ones I know personally have also been absolute shit shows. My old work partner is now a professor of psychology at a large university, and he's one of the most truly lazy and completely mentally unhinged people I've even known. My stalker in college went on to be a counselor for people in hospice, and he was so deeply disturbing (I wasn't the only person he stalked and it was all bad) that I keep wondering if he works in hospice so he can kill people without anyone noticing.
I've got a psychosocial disability (co-disorders) so I've had over 30 psychologists and at least a dozen psychiatrists (Australian government system and private) in the past 20 years.
3 of them were excellent. Like, above and beyond helpful, knowledgeable and worked well within the scope of my needs.
The rest were sub par or worse. One I reported for abuse of patients and being highly unprofessional. It's a minefield.
I'm an Aussie too and I know them feels. Had an government assigned 'psychology expert' tell me that I should be over my mother's death by now and that it was weird I was still crying over it...
My mother had died two weeks before that appointment.
Honestly I feel like they are so desperate with Centrelink/Medicare referrals that some of the people they use shouldn't still have their licenses to practice.
JFC! That's horrific, I'm so sorry. I'm fortunate that I've had the handful of positive experiences, otherwise I'd agree with a lot of people (that probably have only experienced shitty mental health care) that therapy doesn't work. It does work, with the right people and the right approach. Just hard to get, if ever!
I hope that your grief has gotten easier to bear over time so that the good stories and memories come out - because they are precious. Hugs to you fellow Aussie :)
My sister is finally divorcing her awful, abusive husband. He has some pretty severe mental illness going on and refuses to get medicated. His parents are on my sister's side and refuse to speak to him. He's been dragging his feet and acting like a giant, helpless baby the entire time. "I can't move out. I don't know what furniture to buy!"
He's one of the most powerful psychiatrists in the state.
Holy shit! It's so bizarre to me that these people make a beeline for the profession where they are clearly the ones in need of help and shouldn't assist others until they do so. I'm all about lived experience, it's beneficial to have that experience in the role, but not even you're actively harming yourself or others - especially when it comes to mental health.
There are a minimum of two places you can report him: the state psychologist licensing board and the state department of child/family services. Every state has a slightly different name for these entities, but they should be found through a quick web search. Don't stop at reporting him just once at each. Report him every time he hurts one of his kids at the DCS and follow up with the BOL. Every time he says something creepy to your daughter, report him to the BOL.
I had a psychiatrist tell me that Disney songs would cure ADHD. I did not trust her opinion after.
(The music wasn’t actually Disney songs, but it sounded like slightly altered Disney songs according to someone who had done it)
I’m sure it’d cure ADHD in the same way cocaine or Molly cured my ADHD
And by that I mean I got to ignore it for a few hours before it became increasingly ineffective
The adhd meds 'cure' the condition comparable to how an antihypertensivum 'cures' your high blood pressure.
I don't like how people waive that off, as if adhd meds aren't a blessing for most adhd patients. And testing for effectivity is easy, the first dose will often show obvious results already! Compare that to antidepressants where you'll have to take them a couple of weeks just for them to start working, if they even do (no one knows at all lol), and even then it's not uncommon for their effects to present rather subtle and it's far from trivial to tell whether they work and how well they do. But adhd meds? Give the presumed adhd patient a standard dose of ritalin, wait an hour and usually both they themselves and you notice that they clearly are doing something at least.
I had a housemate who was a psychologist and she tell us all the details her patients disclosed to us that we repeatedly told her we didn’t want to know.
She also was a mess in her personal life and needed the rest of us to constantly listen to her whining about all the messes and drama she made.
It's pretty common for mental health professionals to get into the field because of their own struggles, and doesn't necessarily make them bad caregivers.
Tbf, bars are one of the places our cultural norms direct us to go to when we feel like our life is a shit show. But it stands to reason not everyone interested enough in psychology to get a degree will be a great person in their personal life.
My one ex who wanted to study psychology (didn't, grades weren't good enough) also subscribed to negging, PUA manipulation tactics to "keep women in their place"
I'm profoundly relieved he was too thick to ever be in a patient care situation.
Obviously not to tar anyone in the field of psychology with the same brush, but if you want to distract from your own shit by trying to deal with someone else’s, then therapy or psychiatry is an attractive profession.
Like the shoemaker walking barefoot.
Most people are attracted to the field because of proximity to people dealing with mental illness, usually in their family. I've learned firsthand that there are 2 kinds of people who survive families like this - those of us who become "experts" at psychology, and those who fall victim to it. And listening to trauma all day long takes a toll on the psyche. If you're not batshit when you start, you usually are by the time you finish lol
My husband is an exception. I know he's an excellent psychologist because he genuinely treats everyone (friends, family, strangers) with such care. He was meant to help people.
My high school bully, who didn't understand why "drama always followed her"? Also a therapist.
My husband can confirm that unfortunately too many people become therapists to fix themselves through other people.
I don't know. Sounds like it might have worked if she had not asked for outsider opinions. And that was a completely ridiculous lie. But he still almost made her accept it.
I was already a therapist to my mom most of my childhood so I steered clear away from it in school but sadly I probably should have gone into it bc it gave me better insight to help others and in the end I still became the default unofficial therapist to friends and family. Least if I went into it back then I could also get paid for it now lol.
My husband always says he hasn't met a psychologist socially that hasn't needed a psychologist more than most people. Over the years I have started to think he is on to something
Who are these people who think it was her fault for “letting” him get tempted? I’ve cheated on partners as much as I want, which is zero times. It’s possible to have some self control and not be a shithead, who knew?
Seriously! She doesn't own the man! She asked him not to go on the trip, he still went. She told him her boundaries, he crossed them, she responded correctly to the crossed boundaries. There was nothing more for her to do!
I think the fact that she had to tell him one of her boundaries was that she didn't want him cheating on her while he was away says a lot. My wife has never had to say to me "You can all the fun you want, as long as it doesn't include having sex with other women" because she knows I am faithful to her.
If you've got to sit someone down and tell them not to cheat, then your relationship has some serious foundational issues.
There are some things that are worth talking about in advance (like “I’m fine with you going to a strip club” vs “I’d would prefer that you don’t go to a strip club”) because different people have different comfort levels with stuff like that, so it’s not necessarily a red flag to lay out those expectations/boundaries rather than assume you know what the other person is okay with. However, in an exclusive relationship there are some things I think are common sense and reasonable to assume unless otherwise specified, like “don’t kiss or have sex with other people regardless of geographic location.”
Yeah I could understand it in terms of setting guidelines for strip clubs (call me a prude, but my guideline would be "No.") because people have different boundaries about those kind of situations. I'm going to assume her saying that part was just a "Oh and this goes without saying, but that too, of course." But idk cuz this guy seems like he wasn't a master manipulator if he thought an old saying was going to get him out of this. So maybe she was in denial about someone she loved clearly not being trustworthy in the long run.
... God, I'm glad my fiance just doesn't happen to like strip clubs (doesn't mind the hot, naked women part, doesn't like the "random dudes also being there" part) so I don't need to deal with the politics of it all, the discomfort with it but fearing being seen as "uptight".
The final comment is so bizarre. “Allow him to be around so many temptations”, do they think alcohol, bars, nightclubs and strip clubs are limited to Vegas? If a partner is gonna cheat on you, they’ll cheat on you anywhere, not simply because it’s Vegas.
My impression has always been that these are fundamentally stupid people with a pessimistic view of humanity (which might be understandable if they assume all humans are like they are)
These are the weirdos who demand that their partner call them immediately when asked and if they don't they must be cheating.
They are the weirdos who are suspicious of all social contact that they are not monitoring "Girls/ boys trip? I know what that *really* means." or "Why do you need to go to work drinks, am I not enough for you?"
The people who say stuff like "if you don't believe in the bible, what's stopping you going out and killing a bunch of people?!"
Not only. Those are also people, who have been cheated on and instead of assigning blame where it is supposed to go (to the man or woman who cheated), they blame themselves for "being stupid". In reality, of course, they are not.. But blaming yourself for being stupid is easier than blaming the other person, apparently.
I borrowed part of my comment from what I usually say to those people asking what stops me from killing a bunch of people if I’m not Christian. I tell them I kill all the people I want, which is zero people.
I think these are often people who are tempted to/do cheat a lot themselves.
I had a friend who's ex was like this. Anytime he was doing a night out with the friends he'd have to spend at least an hour on the phone with his then-girlfriend. Once the friend group was having a trip where we did a ton of hiking, when we got home from a hike he had to spend like 4 hours on the phone convincing her he didn't cheat because he hadn't responded to her texts... despite having told her he was going to be in an area with no signal. He was 100 percent not cheating...but spoiler alert, turns out she was the whole damn time.
That last comment frustrated me as an erotic dancer myself. Admittedly, Vegas strip clubs are much wilder compared to my small-town scene, and I do more "artsy" burlesque instead of traditional striptease, so my viewpoint might be a bit skewed. Still, you can *absolutely* go to just watch a show without feeling "tempted" to cheat or to get handsy with anyone. The performers are just that: performers. Honestly, I'd be pretty mortified if somebody used my shows as an excuse to cheat.
Reading comments like that last one and the plethora of other shitty takes really reminds me that there are people out there who truly don't understand the meaning of self-control. It really doesn't matter if the show is an erotic artsy burlesque style or straight-up on stage porn, it's a SHOW. Like you said, y'all are performers.
People love to blame anyone and anything but the dumbass who made the choice.
Oh that last comment annoyed me so much. It screams puritanical bullshit. There is nothing wrong with strip clubs etc. if my husband went I’d only be jealous that I wasn’t there to enjoy it!
Cheating is completely separate.
Erotic dancer or sinful entertainer?
I wouldn't let that comment bother you, they're probably a complete bore and think that their partner being nice to waiting staff of the opposite sex is cheating and cause to leave one of those religious fliers disguised as cash as a tip.
Haha, yeah. I thought OOP's boundaries were perfectly reasonable, honestly. Seeing a strip show is fine, tipping is fine (and even polite), cheating is not fine.
I live driving distance to vegas and have been there many times, yet I don’t know a single person who cheated on their partner while there. There was one guy who hooked up with an escort and pretty much does it every time he goes, but he’s single.
Exactly. If you can't trust your partner going to Vegas with friends then you shouldn't be in that relationship. And the other way too, if your partner doesn't trust you with going to Vegas (or anywhere) then why continue on a relationship based in mistrust?
Seriously. I was reading that shit like, "You really have to tell your bf to literally not have sex with other girls? Why are y'all even in a relationship if you gotta tell him to actually act like a partner with basic human decency?" Then she immediately follows it up stating that they have a strong foundation of trust, I literally laughed.
However, I'm genuinely happy that she got out of that shit relationship and played it smart for her own safety. The thought of him being someone's therapist is horrifying.
Okay glad I’m not nuts for seeing that and thinking it was wild. I genuinely would not care if my fiancée went to a strip club, got a lap dance, made friends with the strippers, and followed them on instagram because I know she a) would respect anything I expressed discomfort with in advance, b) wouldn’t try to hide anything about it, and c) wouldn’t cheat on me! We’re both queer women which might make a difference but I feel like “you shouldn’t cheat on your partner, especially if they specifically ask you not to” is pretty common sense for relationships of any gender combination.
Yeah, this is a really bizarre take. If you trust your partner, you don't care if they go into a strip club. If they're going to cheat, they're going to cheat, strip club or not. It doesn't even sound like this guy was cheating with strippers - just drunk girls from clubs.
Someone said this to me when my husband and I went to the Moulin Rouge in Paris - that I was 'tempting fate'. I just stared at them, confused. Did they seriously think the sight of other women's breasts would suddenly transform him into an out of control sex maniac? If anything, we were kind of bored by the nudity by the end of the show.
The mere sight of a naked body driving a man to cheat is actually pretty insulting to men, most of whom are pretty decent. And if it is true, I hope these people who think that way don't allow the Internet, television, magazines or photographs anywhere near their men either.
Right?
I always took it as kind of a conspiratorial aside. "Hey, *we're* not going to let anyone know what you did when you were here, nudge nudge, wink wink."
Not "It is impossible that anyone will ever find out what you did here," or, "If your significant other finds out what you did here, they're not going to be angry about it."
If you have to set all those “rules” for your partner - if they’re not simply obvious and accepted - just break up already.
What’s the point of dating someone who would think any of those things were okay in a monogamous and closed relationship?
The comment at the end saying OOP shouldn't have let him go to Vegas because the chances of him cheating was greater than zero was gross.
People always have the opportunity to cheat (whatever that looks like for their specific relationship) but don't because they have autonomy and don't think it's okay.
Yeah, all that preventing him from going would've done is mean he wouldn't cheat... for another few years or something. Even more time for her to waste. A dude like that is not going to be lifelong-loyal lmao.
Let your partners do whatever they want, find out as early as possible if they'll fuck around as soon as they have the opportunity. OP lucked out with her friend being there tbh.
The mention of sin was a big neon sign that that person is religious. The humans are inherently sinful crowd tend to think very lowly of men and fidelity, so not shocked they thought presence in Vegas = gonna cheat.
IT really calls into question what they think of their partners.
I let him go and if he does something stupid then it's over because I don't want a partner with that kind of poor character.
That commenter must assume that the guy already has poor character and the only thing stopping him is lack of access/ opportunity to act on it.
And they want to hang on to this one?
Reddit has opened my eyes to some of the dumbest takes.
I don't completely agree, people have different ideas of what cheating is and it's useful to discuss those clearly. There's been people on Reddit who've said they consider their partner looking at porn cheating (which now I'm out of my religious upbringing I just don't get), others the line is much further. Some people might be ok with their partner being at a strop club if they don't get a lap dance. I know a couple who are okay with kissing others as long as there is no sex. They still consider themselves to be a monogamous/closed relationship.
The issue OP has is that her exBF was a dick and didn't care about clearly communicated boundaries because ???Vegas is a no consequences bubble.
Imagine taking "what happens in Vegas, stays in Vegas" literally. What about other slogans? He has probably never tried a red bull because he was afraid of turning into a bird creature with wings.
He goes to Burger King and demands a Big Mac because they said he can "have it his way"?
He starts eating every piece of chicken he can find, attacking toddlers to steal their nuggets, because Chick Fil A told him to "eat mor chikin"?
They're changing it now to "what happens in Vegas, only happens in Vegas" because of all the negative connotations and dumbasses like these..words have power
There was a new waiter at the restaurant I worked at once who got in trouble with the bartender because he refused to take a Blue Moon to his table with an orange slice in it.
“Bro, man law saw no fruit in beer!” Which was from a miller light commercial at the time.
Bartender eventually told him to go ask the customer what he thinks, and he started the ask with “Bro, I’m so sorry about our bartender. He doesn’t understand man law……”
The manager ended up taking over that table and the waiter only lasted a few days as a result of just general incompetence.
Remember that brief period in the 00’s when they started trying to market vegas as a family destination? Then they realized why people go there and stopped lol.
If they say this shit it's either two things- they don't respect me enough and will repeat OR they dont women in general if they don't count sex workers as affair partner. And this wasn't some one drunken night which okay, people make work vegas or not. Day after day and the behaviour post breakup was bullet dodged worthy
I work in the social services field.
There are a lot of people in the psychology /social work/resident care/nursing whatever else field that 1000% never be around people ever. There are a good number of people in any of these fields that have no social skills, have "my way or the high way" opinions about their field that they developed before they were in their first year and have never changed, and who view whole categories of people as "others".
Came here to say a similar thing. One of my dorm roommates was studying to become a Social Worker. Most immature, disrespectful, entitled person that I have ever met.
For social work their seems to be one of four reasons people choose it : 1) they've seen some shit and want to help people not have it as bad as they did 2)they want to help "the poors" 3)they felt a calling from god or 4) it was the course with the least math.
Had a former girlfriend who is getting her masters in psych rn trying to become a child psych.
She was in an open ldr and the end of that let me know there was something seriously wrong:
She meets this guy where we live, dumps her ldr (over two year relationship) for him, but they stay open. Which I knew about even before.
But then they asked me to join and I politely refuse - and find out they’ve had a threesome with at least three of our other friends 🤢. And other things.
Once they broke up he went scorched earth cause I guess they were both cheating? He demanded they close the relationship but apparently started seeing the ex he broke up with to start seeing my friend, which was forbidden. My friend was still seeing her sugar daddies.
Anyways he dropped all of their sex tapes and texts in the friend groups inboxes.
Saw them. Made the mistake of watching one.
She was _pretending to be in middle school locked in a dog cage by her own father (the ex boyfriend) begging not to be assaulted - and then they proceeded to, well. I’m good on explaining_
I blocked them both and am just so disgusted by having been her friend. She’s going to school to study child development.
I came here to say the same thing but you said it better than I could. There is a not insubstantial subset of people in the profession who are controlling, manipulative people and want to become better at those skills and have the seeming legitimacy of the profession to back them. I worked in mental health for ten years. There were more than a few people I knew who got into it for pretty scary reasons. And once they're in, they're incredibly hard to do anything about and the damage they can cause is incalculable.
I'm studying psych and I hooked up with (and ended up becoming a victim of) a serial rapist and woman beater who was also studying psychology. He tried to exclusively target women who experienced childhood sexual assault. His ultimate professional/academic goal was to become a therapist for victims of CSA.
The university really pushed back on investigating him, I had to cause a big stink/scandal to get them to do anything about him. I had to go public with my story and they finally did it. He ended up getting expelled and permanently banned from going to any university in the country. It's very maddening that the school was so willing to protect such a clear liability. There's probably so many people just like him that succeed at their goals and never face consequences.
I'm so sorry you went through that but glad you prevailed. I am constantly disappointed by how predatory people are enabled by systems that theoretically should be protecting people from them.
I don’t think you wanna know how many therapists have lost their license because they had sex with a client. Not all of us are of even average intelligence and maturity. My masters in counseling cohort went from 32 to 5 and I hope to god quite a few of those that dropped never come back to become a therapist.
It is not a metric for maturity let me tell you
My former friend is a family law attorney who slept with a client. She was married and cheating on her husband, lost her job and got divorced. Then she wanted sympathy when she wasn't in a sympathetic position.
I think a lot of people would be surprised at how many people want to study psychology for absolutely all of the wrong reasons. I've had a therapist that I would 100% believe to be capable of pulling the same stuff as the ex here did, and a previous friend of mine studying to become a psychologist was the most manipulative person I think I've ever known, using therapy talk as a way of gaslighting and messing with you.
I'm a research/academic psychologist and someone I knew in undergrad is a clinician now. This is a person who told a gay friend of ours (cheerfully) that just by standing around being gay, he was always 'low-key sinning' and that 'kids can't actually have mental illnesses, they just need Jesus and to respect their parents more'.
I knew a family therapist who has started 3 families with three different women.
As soon as the kids hit about 10, he started looking for another baby momma. He’d leave once the nee woman was pregnant and keeping the kid.
I weep for the families he advises if that is his idea of a good home life.
Meanwhile I dropped out with only dissertation and internship left because it was too mentally overwhelming for me.
One of my friends from grad school did complete his degree. He got a job in my home state but I stopped being friends with him as he was overly annoying on Facebook. Recently, I learned he gave pornography to an underaged client to watch the teen masturbate. And was allowed to quietly resign and move to California to work in a men's prison. How did I learn about this? Listening to an episode on Behind the Bastards podcast about child prisons.
I went on one (1) single date with a therapist years ago. We had some really mediocre sex afterwards, and the next day he made me FaceTime his mom from his bed introducing me as his girlfriend and proceeded to harass me for YEARS when I "broke up" with him. Broke up said loosely since we were literally never dating in the first place lol. Being a therapist does not make you a well adjusted person
I wonder if it actually normalizes the experience for them. You don't usually visit a marriage counselor when your marriage is amazing. Maybe they literally just believe over time "marriages are shit and everyone cheats"...
Lots of people love the power and opportunities to gaslight that being a psychologist provides. The history of the field is full of jaw dropping examples of inappropriate behaviour by therapists, to the point that discussing therapist abuse is a big part of the ongoing professional learning for therapists.
I know a few people that are psychologists and psychiatrists, and though I like them a lot, those occupations seem to attract people that are in dire need of their own services.
My wife used to work for a psychology research lab. Some people there were completely deranged and lacked basic empathy. Lots of stories of power trips from low level bosses, fraud, bullying, place was a damn serpentarium. So yeah, didn't bat an eye that guy's a psychologist lol
My first roommate outside my parents’ house was studying psychology. She threatened to kill my dog and I got a police escort when I moved out. I dearly hope she didn’t finish.
Oh, you dear sweet summer child. I have a psychology degree and a solid half my class were shitshows, and at least a third of those shitshows went on for clinical degrees.
So many people go into psychology/psychiatry and medicine to figure out what's wrong with them and how to hide it.
Teaching is another favorite of narcissists and abuse purveyors.
>I know he's not stupid. He is literally studying to be a clinical psychologist. I just cannot wrap my head around the fact that he genuinely believes in that saying and thinks it's a pass for his actions.
It's always an absolute mindfuck when women pretend that their *grown men* are somehow unaware of the bullshit they're spouting.
I knew a guy who was excited for an upcoming Vegas bachelors weekend because he thought that the catch phrase was "real". No women involved in the conversation, he just straight up believed that he could do whatever he wanted and could *actually sue somebody* if they told his wife. To the point that he became very belligerent with the group.
I didn't end up going on that trip to Vegas.
There's no amount of stupid that is unbelievable.
That second to last comment is so weird. Did I miss something? Like, did the OOP say something about her ex being a sex addict or having substance abuse issues or something like that? Or is the commenter just a hardcore prude with an extremely warped view of relationships?
You can tell a lot by them saying "sinful entertainment." They just hate basically everything that goes on in Vegas and view it as Satan's lair on earth to corrupt people. It's not a comment made by someone who read the story and updates and considered things, it's just someone who has a very black and white view of the world and needed to preach at her.
I'm willing to bet that commenter would say what you did was sinful too since it literally is by bible standards. But who knows, idunno what's in their heart. I just think them saying sinful is a big giveaway to how they see the world.
Has to be the latter I think, like what do they even mean by "situations where the chance of them cheating is more than zero"? Given their attitude isn't that technically... any situation where the partner is not present? Like, does that person believe that all people in relationships should never go on trips or to events apart from each other because that's technically a greater than zero chance of cheating? I don't know, that comment really stood out to me as totally bizarre as well though
That commenter is the kind of person who thinks male bosses shouldn't ever have meetings alone with female subordinates. They make every situation sexual and think the only way to trust your partner is to control them completely.
They also said "Monogamous partnerships don't work that way", but a good relationship means trust. My partner can go to a strip club if he wants to (he doesn't), and spend time with women if he likes. If I didn't trust him to do those things without cheating, why would I even be in a relationship with him in the first place?
Yeah that type of thinking really rubs me the wrong way. Like, I'm bisexual, does this mean that I can't have any friends or be alone with anyone because there's ALWAYS sexual tension to these people? I once was dating a man who told me that he thought it was inappropriate for women in relationships to talk in a friendly manner to strange men (but also confirmed that he had no such problem with me and other women), nipped that in the bud real quick. It's baffling how some people don't understand how interpersonal relationships are MOSTLY platonic, it really makes me wonder how those people go about their lives in their own heads.
The idea that she “let him be around those kind of temptations” is fucked. He’s an adult. He chose to go, which is his right. She laid out very hard limits for her, which is also fair. She covered a variety of the things that cause conflict in a relationship because they haven’t been explicitly discussed - some people consider lap dances cheating, some don’t. It’s good to talk about that clearly. She didn’t explicitly say “don’t stick your dick in girls you pick up” but she shouldn’t have had to do that. The type of people that “let” other people do things have a name - parent. He’s not her child, he’s just an idiot. I truly wonder if she has actual proof of his major because I’m terrified for his future patients.
Such a strange comment. "Monogamous partnerships don't work that way", what? MY monogamous partnership works by trusting him not to cheat no matter how many "temptations" he's surrounded by. I thought that was the point.
That’s what I was wondering too. Asking why she was OK with him being around all those temptations is extremely bizarre. Human beings are capable of exercising self-control and I’m reasonably sure she assumed he would be able to do that. If you assume your partner is going to cheat the minute they’re around other people, what’s the point of a relationship at all?!
It sounds like she knew that he had the potential for sketchy behavior before the trip ever happened. He may not have acted on any of it until Vegas, but she knew enough to be worried that he was going to mess up.
One of her boundaries was for him to not have sex with someone else. I thought that kind of goes without saying if they're monogamous, but I guess this guy really did need the warning
And why did he agree to her restrictions if he didn't think they counted in Vegas? He knew exactly what he was doing. The number of loopholes cheaters try and come up with is as staggering as it is ridiculous.
The fact that she had to say all those rules out loud meant that she thought he would do those things unless she specifically asked him not to. Never mind that most of that list was simply being a decent partner.
Yeah the only one I could see needing to be stated explicitly is lap dances. Some monogamous couples are cool with that so that one I could see needing to lay out. The rest are absolutely insane to feel the need to specify.
I'd bet he used the language of abuse to gaslight her for a long time.
I see a lot of abusers claiming that anyone who wants you to behave a certain way (ie don't cheat?) is controlling.
She has been made to think that she is "just too controlling" "you're too sensitive" "it's just flirting" etc
You see these people talk about how much they love their partner, but they don't realise you need to like your partner too. They should make you happy not sad!
Yeah the commenter that she called an ah was pointing at that, most probably. Her defense being "he was my only support system" is not helpful at all, that's how abusers operate.
This is a game of what's more likely? He got drunk, took women to his room and played Yahtzee? Or he fucked them. I think she knew what the answer was.
Heh, that was honestly my favorite part of the friends' initial reports. "Yeah, he brought girls back to his airbnb bedroom and shut the door, sometimes two at a time... *but I didn't hear anything sexual.*"
I guess if true they were all trying to give a benefit of the doubt if they actually didn't hear anything? Seems unlikely there wouldn't have been sounds given he was apparently coming home shitfaced, but maybe he put on music or they just all shoved their fingers in their ears?
Fools trying to blame her for a grown man's actions by asking why she would "allow" him to be tempted 🤦🏾♀️Just another way to blame her instead of him
She's not his mother! She cannot control him!
Shitheads like this manage to convince girls to stay with them in serious relationships, what? I'm honestly surprised at some of these stories and the low standards some people have for themselves. This shit wouldn't fly in my friend circle, even before the vegas trip incident.
You just don't go alone on a trip you plan with your partner!
She's 23, and had been with him starting at age 20. Fortunately, OOP isn't wearing layers of rose colored glasses, saw this for the BS it is, and left him. She'll take this knowledge going forward in future relationships and is unlikely to get trapped with another hobosexual.
That last comment from DruidWonder is a whole new level of WTF to this shit show. Apparently discussing boundaries of “enjoy Vegas but these are hard limits” is somehow indicative of major relationship issues?! 🤣🤦🏼♀️
Personally I find it a bit odd that they don't already know the boundaries after being together for 3 years. Maybe it's just me because personally I wouldn't want to be grinding on other women or even going to a strip club if I was in a relationship so I'd be very surprised if my girlfriend even mentioned it.
Especially when one of the boundaries is “don’t have sex with anyone else.” If it’s the boundary you live by every day, why would you need to specifically mention it on a list of “don’ts” for Vegas?
…
I’m seriously confused. There was so little trust that she had to outline boundaries of effectively “remember you aren’t a college bachelor”?
My partner has been on vacations with his friends and I’ve never once felt the need to say “please don’t cheat on me while you’re away”.
Obviously the discussion was meaningless but still - the relationship was messed up from the get go in my book.
I'll never understand people like the last commentor - 'Why did you let him go to places where he could cheat?'
I have two young kids, so chances for my wife and I to have fun, grown up holidays are slim. In the last couple of years, I've been to Vegas twice without her (I have a friend that lives there, so mostly stay with him and his fiancé) and she's gone away with her friends. The idea of cheating just doesn't cross my mind, even the nights I'm on my own in a hotel with literally no way anyone would ever find out. I absolutely expect that that the same is true of my wife, and have no problem whatsoever with her spending time away.
This guy wanted to cheat. He put himself in situations where he could cheat. He did it in front of mutual friends, so obviously had no compunctions about cheating. And yet people are blaming her for believing she wasn't going out with someone that would do that? Mental.
She should have sent a message to his professors to have a class discussion on if using slogans justifies infidelity.
"I was wearing Nikes, so, you know. Just do it. :)"
It’s wild how a marketing campaign for a city has turned into permission for so many people to disregard the feelings of others, lol.
It would be like if everyone in Virginia just excused their romantic bad behavior because the ad agency said the state is for lovers!
"Thanks for thinking you know my entire relationship from a reddit post! You sound a lot like the person you're telling me to break up with. Especially telling me I have no self respect!"
And this my friends is why it can be profoundly unhelpful and counter productive to tell someone directly to leave an abusive (or just generally shitty) relationship, particularly if you pressure them about it. They already have one person in their life pushing them to do what they want and not respecting their wishes. If you become a second person doing that you're just going to be noise to them and even push them reactively further back to their awful partner.
Validate their feelings (you ARE being treated like shit, you're not crazy to be upset), make it clear you respect what they feel is best for them and that they are the authority on their own life. Let them know you'll support them if they leave. Hell, raise the subject of them leaving - try to discuss what their options could be, ask their thoughts about it - but don't push and don't badger them. You gotta be strategic because it has to be their choice. (And it is okay as well if you're out of capacity to hear about the relationship to say hey can we talk about anything else? you know my thoughts on this and i will be here if you decide to leave, but till then I can't be your sounding board).
Anyway that was a wild tangent, I just thought it was a great example of how NOT to try to get someone to leave their partner lol
What’s with the commenter saying “why would you let him be around those kind of temptations if you were just going to set boundaries, he’s just going to cheat?”
Most men who go to strip clubs don’t fuck the strippers. Millions of men are easily able to resist temptation (if it’s even there, stripping is just a job to many/most of these women.
She was trying to compromise, quite reasonably I think.
>What happens in Vegas stays in Vegas
Yep, that's why people who get married in Vegas are only pretend married. It totally doesn't count. I can't figure out if OOP's ex has gone full dumbass or is so superior that they think they can wave away infidelity. Truly mind-boggling.
That whole story is nuts, but why the hell would a couple living together share a set of keys and not each have a copy? This is bugging me so much for some reason.
He literally cannot be this dumb lol he knew what he was doing and he knows what he's doing when he switches from profanities to compliance. Glad he's outta there
Good gravy. The fact he wanted to go on that kind of holiday and SHE had to lay out thee boundaries rather than him saying ‘I want to spend the time with my friends, but no strip clubs or anything; we’ll probably gamble of course and go to clubs but I’m not interested in watching strip shows; if they want to go, I won’t be participating’ - you know, showing he’s considerate, aware and respectful.
I am sorry, but that last comment from "Druid Wonder" is bluegh.
I have been in a monogamous relationship for 15 years. I would whole heartedly trust my partner in a "sinful entertainment" environment, because ***I trust his ability as an adult to make decision based on more than his penis.*** Alluding to this being OOP's fault because she 'allowed' him to go is bullshit. She doesn't need to allow him to do anything or not allow him. He should understand that there was boundaries (I mean, incredibly fair boundaries IMO) and he not only ignored them, he flouted his relationship with complete disregard.
"Its not the mans fault he cheated, its the temptation wah wah wah" bullshit has to stop. You cheated, you made that choice.
He is an adult. He made an adult decision and it had adult consequences. Grow up.
People telling op to not let him go see strippers. Seriously you don’t « let » a grown man do anything, he is not her child not A child and should be able to keep is pants on without her giving him rules.
The main thing of an adult is knowing that the things you do have consequences without another adult having to tell you.
If my boyfriend go see strippers he will know perfectly well that the rules is « your pants stay on and you only use your eyes » without me having to tell him.
If you have to sit down and have an entire conversation about what your *monogamous* partner can and can't do with strippers....that relationship was already fucked.
I disagree, I think it's important to establish clear boundaries in any relationship. Not everyone has the same limits.
It just seems like he missed the step of then actually respecting those boundaries...
First thing I wish OOP knew was that if you have to explicitly tell your partner not to have sex with other people on vacay then you're relationship is already in trouble.
But I really wish I could tell OOP to look into the seemingly invisible signals that people who have experience abuse/trauma give off that only other abusers can see. The other abusers look for these signals and target those people. If she isn't careful and aware she will continue to attract these predators.
Also, stay aware from psych majors...generally they sought that field to try to figure out their own shit.
I keep thinking about the old cliche of people go into psy fields because they kind of know that they're unwell.
I think this guy is going into psy so that he can get better at manipulating people.
I will never understand the mentality of people to go to strip clubs. I literally do not understand it. Especially when you have a so at home. My friends and I are all nerds. I accept this. One went to Vegas recently. He and his wife did touristy things, went out to eat to different places, saw different shows. They skipped out on gambling or stripping because it's just not something they wanted to do.
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Well, there's a man I don't want as my psychologist ☠️☠️☠️
At least he knows to keep the code. What is said in the psychologist office stays in the psychologist office.
Wait until he fucks a patient in the office
Especially then.
He became a psychologist so he could learn abusive techniques it seems to me.
My daughters FIL to be just finished his registration period to be a clinical psychologist. He's literally beating his children at home, and broke his step son's arm, whilst also making sexually suggestive comments to my (then underage) daughter. I cannot fathom a world in which vulnerable people go to him for support. He's only using this role as leverage to be a predator and it shall not be a surprise when he gets in trouble for whatever he's going to do. I just hate that the worst I can do is anonymously report him.
I know there are amazing therapists out there but all the ones I know personally have also been absolute shit shows. My old work partner is now a professor of psychology at a large university, and he's one of the most truly lazy and completely mentally unhinged people I've even known. My stalker in college went on to be a counselor for people in hospice, and he was so deeply disturbing (I wasn't the only person he stalked and it was all bad) that I keep wondering if he works in hospice so he can kill people without anyone noticing.
I've got a psychosocial disability (co-disorders) so I've had over 30 psychologists and at least a dozen psychiatrists (Australian government system and private) in the past 20 years. 3 of them were excellent. Like, above and beyond helpful, knowledgeable and worked well within the scope of my needs. The rest were sub par or worse. One I reported for abuse of patients and being highly unprofessional. It's a minefield.
I'm an Aussie too and I know them feels. Had an government assigned 'psychology expert' tell me that I should be over my mother's death by now and that it was weird I was still crying over it... My mother had died two weeks before that appointment. Honestly I feel like they are so desperate with Centrelink/Medicare referrals that some of the people they use shouldn't still have their licenses to practice.
JFC! That's horrific, I'm so sorry. I'm fortunate that I've had the handful of positive experiences, otherwise I'd agree with a lot of people (that probably have only experienced shitty mental health care) that therapy doesn't work. It does work, with the right people and the right approach. Just hard to get, if ever! I hope that your grief has gotten easier to bear over time so that the good stories and memories come out - because they are precious. Hugs to you fellow Aussie :)
My sister is finally divorcing her awful, abusive husband. He has some pretty severe mental illness going on and refuses to get medicated. His parents are on my sister's side and refuse to speak to him. He's been dragging his feet and acting like a giant, helpless baby the entire time. "I can't move out. I don't know what furniture to buy!" He's one of the most powerful psychiatrists in the state.
Holy shit! It's so bizarre to me that these people make a beeline for the profession where they are clearly the ones in need of help and shouldn't assist others until they do so. I'm all about lived experience, it's beneficial to have that experience in the role, but not even you're actively harming yourself or others - especially when it comes to mental health.
>I just hate that the worst I can do is anonymously report him. That's not the "worst" that you can do; it's the **best** that you can do.
There are a minimum of two places you can report him: the state psychologist licensing board and the state department of child/family services. Every state has a slightly different name for these entities, but they should be found through a quick web search. Don't stop at reporting him just once at each. Report him every time he hurts one of his kids at the DCS and follow up with the BOL. Every time he says something creepy to your daughter, report him to the BOL.
That's why you start practicing in Vegas. Duh.
Whispers under his breath “what happens in Vegas stays in Vegas…”
Yeah, but the patient cant say anything because of doctor-patient confidentiality! It's the perfect crime!
Dr. Spaceman says doctor-patient confidentiality goes both ways
How the turntables….
If he's a psychologist, he legally has to tell you
Every psychologist I've ever met outside of a professional setting, such as a bar, has been a complete and utter shitshow of a person
A significant number of psychologists start out as interested students taking psych 101 to try and figure out how fucked up they are.
I had a psychiatrist tell me that Disney songs would cure ADHD. I did not trust her opinion after. (The music wasn’t actually Disney songs, but it sounded like slightly altered Disney songs according to someone who had done it)
I’m sure it’d cure ADHD in the same way cocaine or Molly cured my ADHD And by that I mean I got to ignore it for a few hours before it became increasingly ineffective
The adhd meds 'cure' the condition comparable to how an antihypertensivum 'cures' your high blood pressure. I don't like how people waive that off, as if adhd meds aren't a blessing for most adhd patients. And testing for effectivity is easy, the first dose will often show obvious results already! Compare that to antidepressants where you'll have to take them a couple of weeks just for them to start working, if they even do (no one knows at all lol), and even then it's not uncommon for their effects to present rather subtle and it's far from trivial to tell whether they work and how well they do. But adhd meds? Give the presumed adhd patient a standard dose of ritalin, wait an hour and usually both they themselves and you notice that they clearly are doing something at least.
Yup. There’s no cure for these neurological issues, only tools to better manage it mentally or chemically
I had a housemate who was a psychologist and she tell us all the details her patients disclosed to us that we repeatedly told her we didn’t want to know. She also was a mess in her personal life and needed the rest of us to constantly listen to her whining about all the messes and drama she made.
It's pretty common for mental health professionals to get into the field because of their own struggles, and doesn't necessarily make them bad caregivers.
Tbf, bars are one of the places our cultural norms direct us to go to when we feel like our life is a shit show. But it stands to reason not everyone interested enough in psychology to get a degree will be a great person in their personal life.
My one ex who wanted to study psychology (didn't, grades weren't good enough) also subscribed to negging, PUA manipulation tactics to "keep women in their place" I'm profoundly relieved he was too thick to ever be in a patient care situation.
Huh TIL I need to go to bars instead of rotting away in my own house
But then, the implications of me making a fool of myself in public has increased exponentially
Obviously not to tar anyone in the field of psychology with the same brush, but if you want to distract from your own shit by trying to deal with someone else’s, then therapy or psychiatry is an attractive profession. Like the shoemaker walking barefoot.
Most people are attracted to the field because of proximity to people dealing with mental illness, usually in their family. I've learned firsthand that there are 2 kinds of people who survive families like this - those of us who become "experts" at psychology, and those who fall victim to it. And listening to trauma all day long takes a toll on the psyche. If you're not batshit when you start, you usually are by the time you finish lol
My husband is an exception. I know he's an excellent psychologist because he genuinely treats everyone (friends, family, strangers) with such care. He was meant to help people. My high school bully, who didn't understand why "drama always followed her"? Also a therapist. My husband can confirm that unfortunately too many people become therapists to fix themselves through other people.
I'm scared he's learning psychology in order to be better at manipulating people.
Well thankfully he seems to be doing a terrible job at if so far.
I don't know. Sounds like it might have worked if she had not asked for outsider opinions. And that was a completely ridiculous lie. But he still almost made her accept it.
I had an ah-ha moment in college that everyone I knew in the psychology track was there to figure out their own problems.
I was already a therapist to my mom most of my childhood so I steered clear away from it in school but sadly I probably should have gone into it bc it gave me better insight to help others and in the end I still became the default unofficial therapist to friends and family. Least if I went into it back then I could also get paid for it now lol.
Ahhhh that award was supposed to be a golden upvote! So sorry - didn’t have my glasses. Let me give you something better 🤣 apologies!!!
Okay - now you have a golden upvote (and a big pile of golden poop 😆) please disregard the latter!
My husband always says he hasn't met a psychologist socially that hasn't needed a psychologist more than most people. Over the years I have started to think he is on to something
Who are these people who think it was her fault for “letting” him get tempted? I’ve cheated on partners as much as I want, which is zero times. It’s possible to have some self control and not be a shithead, who knew?
Seriously! She doesn't own the man! She asked him not to go on the trip, he still went. She told him her boundaries, he crossed them, she responded correctly to the crossed boundaries. There was nothing more for her to do!
I think the fact that she had to tell him one of her boundaries was that she didn't want him cheating on her while he was away says a lot. My wife has never had to say to me "You can all the fun you want, as long as it doesn't include having sex with other women" because she knows I am faithful to her. If you've got to sit someone down and tell them not to cheat, then your relationship has some serious foundational issues.
There are some things that are worth talking about in advance (like “I’m fine with you going to a strip club” vs “I’d would prefer that you don’t go to a strip club”) because different people have different comfort levels with stuff like that, so it’s not necessarily a red flag to lay out those expectations/boundaries rather than assume you know what the other person is okay with. However, in an exclusive relationship there are some things I think are common sense and reasonable to assume unless otherwise specified, like “don’t kiss or have sex with other people regardless of geographic location.”
"You cheated on me when I specifically asked you not to" vibes.
Which raises the question of why she felt she had to tell him not to cheat on her in the first place.
Yeah I could understand it in terms of setting guidelines for strip clubs (call me a prude, but my guideline would be "No.") because people have different boundaries about those kind of situations. I'm going to assume her saying that part was just a "Oh and this goes without saying, but that too, of course." But idk cuz this guy seems like he wasn't a master manipulator if he thought an old saying was going to get him out of this. So maybe she was in denial about someone she loved clearly not being trustworthy in the long run. ... God, I'm glad my fiance just doesn't happen to like strip clubs (doesn't mind the hot, naked women part, doesn't like the "random dudes also being there" part) so I don't need to deal with the politics of it all, the discomfort with it but fearing being seen as "uptight".
The final comment is so bizarre. “Allow him to be around so many temptations”, do they think alcohol, bars, nightclubs and strip clubs are limited to Vegas? If a partner is gonna cheat on you, they’ll cheat on you anywhere, not simply because it’s Vegas.
My impression has always been that these are fundamentally stupid people with a pessimistic view of humanity (which might be understandable if they assume all humans are like they are) These are the weirdos who demand that their partner call them immediately when asked and if they don't they must be cheating. They are the weirdos who are suspicious of all social contact that they are not monitoring "Girls/ boys trip? I know what that *really* means." or "Why do you need to go to work drinks, am I not enough for you?" The people who say stuff like "if you don't believe in the bible, what's stopping you going out and killing a bunch of people?!"
Not only. Those are also people, who have been cheated on and instead of assigning blame where it is supposed to go (to the man or woman who cheated), they blame themselves for "being stupid". In reality, of course, they are not.. But blaming yourself for being stupid is easier than blaming the other person, apparently.
I borrowed part of my comment from what I usually say to those people asking what stops me from killing a bunch of people if I’m not Christian. I tell them I kill all the people I want, which is zero people.
I think these are often people who are tempted to/do cheat a lot themselves. I had a friend who's ex was like this. Anytime he was doing a night out with the friends he'd have to spend at least an hour on the phone with his then-girlfriend. Once the friend group was having a trip where we did a ton of hiking, when we got home from a hike he had to spend like 4 hours on the phone convincing her he didn't cheat because he hadn't responded to her texts... despite having told her he was going to be in an area with no signal. He was 100 percent not cheating...but spoiler alert, turns out she was the whole damn time.
That last comment frustrated me as an erotic dancer myself. Admittedly, Vegas strip clubs are much wilder compared to my small-town scene, and I do more "artsy" burlesque instead of traditional striptease, so my viewpoint might be a bit skewed. Still, you can *absolutely* go to just watch a show without feeling "tempted" to cheat or to get handsy with anyone. The performers are just that: performers. Honestly, I'd be pretty mortified if somebody used my shows as an excuse to cheat.
Reading comments like that last one and the plethora of other shitty takes really reminds me that there are people out there who truly don't understand the meaning of self-control. It really doesn't matter if the show is an erotic artsy burlesque style or straight-up on stage porn, it's a SHOW. Like you said, y'all are performers. People love to blame anyone and anything but the dumbass who made the choice.
I figure that last commenter is just telling on themselves.
Those pseudo christians looove to shift blame. It's never their fault, always the devil has tempted them.
Oh that last comment annoyed me so much. It screams puritanical bullshit. There is nothing wrong with strip clubs etc. if my husband went I’d only be jealous that I wasn’t there to enjoy it! Cheating is completely separate.
Erotic dancer or sinful entertainer? I wouldn't let that comment bother you, they're probably a complete bore and think that their partner being nice to waiting staff of the opposite sex is cheating and cause to leave one of those religious fliers disguised as cash as a tip.
Haha, yeah. I thought OOP's boundaries were perfectly reasonable, honestly. Seeing a strip show is fine, tipping is fine (and even polite), cheating is not fine.
Yeah there is a huge chasm between paying to watch someone dance and cheating too.
I live driving distance to vegas and have been there many times, yet I don’t know a single person who cheated on their partner while there. There was one guy who hooked up with an escort and pretty much does it every time he goes, but he’s single.
Exactly. If you can't trust your partner going to Vegas with friends then you shouldn't be in that relationship. And the other way too, if your partner doesn't trust you with going to Vegas (or anywhere) then why continue on a relationship based in mistrust?
Seriously. I was reading that shit like, "You really have to tell your bf to literally not have sex with other girls? Why are y'all even in a relationship if you gotta tell him to actually act like a partner with basic human decency?" Then she immediately follows it up stating that they have a strong foundation of trust, I literally laughed. However, I'm genuinely happy that she got out of that shit relationship and played it smart for her own safety. The thought of him being someone's therapist is horrifying.
Okay glad I’m not nuts for seeing that and thinking it was wild. I genuinely would not care if my fiancée went to a strip club, got a lap dance, made friends with the strippers, and followed them on instagram because I know she a) would respect anything I expressed discomfort with in advance, b) wouldn’t try to hide anything about it, and c) wouldn’t cheat on me! We’re both queer women which might make a difference but I feel like “you shouldn’t cheat on your partner, especially if they specifically ask you not to” is pretty common sense for relationships of any gender combination.
Well that last commenter used the word "sinful", so in my mind that automatically discredits anything else they say, their integrity is compromised.
Yeah, this is a really bizarre take. If you trust your partner, you don't care if they go into a strip club. If they're going to cheat, they're going to cheat, strip club or not. It doesn't even sound like this guy was cheating with strippers - just drunk girls from clubs. Someone said this to me when my husband and I went to the Moulin Rouge in Paris - that I was 'tempting fate'. I just stared at them, confused. Did they seriously think the sight of other women's breasts would suddenly transform him into an out of control sex maniac? If anything, we were kind of bored by the nudity by the end of the show. The mere sight of a naked body driving a man to cheat is actually pretty insulting to men, most of whom are pretty decent. And if it is true, I hope these people who think that way don't allow the Internet, television, magazines or photographs anywhere near their men either.
The titties will breast boobily over to your husband like heat-seeking missiles and begin to whack him on the head until he pays them attention, duh.
Who knew a slogan created by a marketing company in 2003 had such power!
Right? I always took it as kind of a conspiratorial aside. "Hey, *we're* not going to let anyone know what you did when you were here, nudge nudge, wink wink." Not "It is impossible that anyone will ever find out what you did here," or, "If your significant other finds out what you did here, they're not going to be angry about it."
If you have to set all those “rules” for your partner - if they’re not simply obvious and accepted - just break up already. What’s the point of dating someone who would think any of those things were okay in a monogamous and closed relationship?
The comment at the end saying OOP shouldn't have let him go to Vegas because the chances of him cheating was greater than zero was gross. People always have the opportunity to cheat (whatever that looks like for their specific relationship) but don't because they have autonomy and don't think it's okay.
Yeah, all that preventing him from going would've done is mean he wouldn't cheat... for another few years or something. Even more time for her to waste. A dude like that is not going to be lifelong-loyal lmao. Let your partners do whatever they want, find out as early as possible if they'll fuck around as soon as they have the opportunity. OP lucked out with her friend being there tbh.
How sweet of you to assume he wasn’t already cheating
The mention of sin was a big neon sign that that person is religious. The humans are inherently sinful crowd tend to think very lowly of men and fidelity, so not shocked they thought presence in Vegas = gonna cheat.
Yeah seriously, cheating is always possible. If I needed to "restrain" my partner from cheating i wouldnt date them
IT really calls into question what they think of their partners. I let him go and if he does something stupid then it's over because I don't want a partner with that kind of poor character. That commenter must assume that the guy already has poor character and the only thing stopping him is lack of access/ opportunity to act on it. And they want to hang on to this one? Reddit has opened my eyes to some of the dumbest takes.
It wasn't op's responsibility to prevent her boyfriend from cheating
I don't completely agree, people have different ideas of what cheating is and it's useful to discuss those clearly. There's been people on Reddit who've said they consider their partner looking at porn cheating (which now I'm out of my religious upbringing I just don't get), others the line is much further. Some people might be ok with their partner being at a strop club if they don't get a lap dance. I know a couple who are okay with kissing others as long as there is no sex. They still consider themselves to be a monogamous/closed relationship. The issue OP has is that her exBF was a dick and didn't care about clearly communicated boundaries because ???Vegas is a no consequences bubble.
Imagine taking "what happens in Vegas, stays in Vegas" literally. What about other slogans? He has probably never tried a red bull because he was afraid of turning into a bird creature with wings.
Well he did take Nike’s slogan to heart as well: Just Do It.
Probably goes to burger King and orders a ~~pizza~~ ~~Vegas sex worker~~ something off menu since he can have it his way
He goes to Burger King and demands a Big Mac because they said he can "have it his way"? He starts eating every piece of chicken he can find, attacking toddlers to steal their nuggets, because Chick Fil A told him to "eat mor chikin"?
Shortly after the post, dude had to go to the hospital cause he was told to "do the dew" and it got stuck
They're changing it now to "what happens in Vegas, only happens in Vegas" because of all the negative connotations and dumbasses like these..words have power
Or what happens in Vegas, goes on Facebook! (Getting a little dated though)
There was a new waiter at the restaurant I worked at once who got in trouble with the bartender because he refused to take a Blue Moon to his table with an orange slice in it. “Bro, man law saw no fruit in beer!” Which was from a miller light commercial at the time. Bartender eventually told him to go ask the customer what he thinks, and he started the ask with “Bro, I’m so sorry about our bartender. He doesn’t understand man law……” The manager ended up taking over that table and the waiter only lasted a few days as a result of just general incompetence.
I think this might be THE dumbest thing I've ever heard. 😂
What a wanker. If someone brought me a blue moon without an orange slice I would be peeved
Calling a customer "bro" is its own entirely distinct issue lol
Wazzzzaaaaaaaaaaap!
Remember that brief period in the 00’s when they started trying to market vegas as a family destination? Then they realized why people go there and stopped lol.
If they say this shit it's either two things- they don't respect me enough and will repeat OR they dont women in general if they don't count sex workers as affair partner. And this wasn't some one drunken night which okay, people make work vegas or not. Day after day and the behaviour post breakup was bullet dodged worthy
A man acts like this when he wants to become a Clinical Psychologist? Oh give me a break.
I work in the social services field. There are a lot of people in the psychology /social work/resident care/nursing whatever else field that 1000% never be around people ever. There are a good number of people in any of these fields that have no social skills, have "my way or the high way" opinions about their field that they developed before they were in their first year and have never changed, and who view whole categories of people as "others".
My former dorm mate at college is a psychiatrist now, and she is one of the top 3 craziest people I’ve ever met. It’s terrifying, honestly.
Came here to say a similar thing. One of my dorm roommates was studying to become a Social Worker. Most immature, disrespectful, entitled person that I have ever met.
For social work their seems to be one of four reasons people choose it : 1) they've seen some shit and want to help people not have it as bad as they did 2)they want to help "the poors" 3)they felt a calling from god or 4) it was the course with the least math.
My cousin picked it because there are always jobs
I knew a guy we thought put the "psycho" in "psychotherapist"
Had a former girlfriend who is getting her masters in psych rn trying to become a child psych. She was in an open ldr and the end of that let me know there was something seriously wrong: She meets this guy where we live, dumps her ldr (over two year relationship) for him, but they stay open. Which I knew about even before. But then they asked me to join and I politely refuse - and find out they’ve had a threesome with at least three of our other friends 🤢. And other things. Once they broke up he went scorched earth cause I guess they were both cheating? He demanded they close the relationship but apparently started seeing the ex he broke up with to start seeing my friend, which was forbidden. My friend was still seeing her sugar daddies. Anyways he dropped all of their sex tapes and texts in the friend groups inboxes. Saw them. Made the mistake of watching one. She was _pretending to be in middle school locked in a dog cage by her own father (the ex boyfriend) begging not to be assaulted - and then they proceeded to, well. I’m good on explaining_ I blocked them both and am just so disgusted by having been her friend. She’s going to school to study child development.
I came here to say the same thing but you said it better than I could. There is a not insubstantial subset of people in the profession who are controlling, manipulative people and want to become better at those skills and have the seeming legitimacy of the profession to back them. I worked in mental health for ten years. There were more than a few people I knew who got into it for pretty scary reasons. And once they're in, they're incredibly hard to do anything about and the damage they can cause is incalculable.
I'm studying psych and I hooked up with (and ended up becoming a victim of) a serial rapist and woman beater who was also studying psychology. He tried to exclusively target women who experienced childhood sexual assault. His ultimate professional/academic goal was to become a therapist for victims of CSA. The university really pushed back on investigating him, I had to cause a big stink/scandal to get them to do anything about him. I had to go public with my story and they finally did it. He ended up getting expelled and permanently banned from going to any university in the country. It's very maddening that the school was so willing to protect such a clear liability. There's probably so many people just like him that succeed at their goals and never face consequences.
I'm so sorry you went through that but glad you prevailed. I am constantly disappointed by how predatory people are enabled by systems that theoretically should be protecting people from them.
I don’t think you wanna know how many therapists have lost their license because they had sex with a client. Not all of us are of even average intelligence and maturity. My masters in counseling cohort went from 32 to 5 and I hope to god quite a few of those that dropped never come back to become a therapist. It is not a metric for maturity let me tell you
My former friend is a family law attorney who slept with a client. She was married and cheating on her husband, lost her job and got divorced. Then she wanted sympathy when she wasn't in a sympathetic position.
I think a lot of people would be surprised at how many people want to study psychology for absolutely all of the wrong reasons. I've had a therapist that I would 100% believe to be capable of pulling the same stuff as the ex here did, and a previous friend of mine studying to become a psychologist was the most manipulative person I think I've ever known, using therapy talk as a way of gaslighting and messing with you.
I'm a research/academic psychologist and someone I knew in undergrad is a clinician now. This is a person who told a gay friend of ours (cheerfully) that just by standing around being gay, he was always 'low-key sinning' and that 'kids can't actually have mental illnesses, they just need Jesus and to respect their parents more'.
You know this is the kind of psychologist that dates his patients.
I knew a family therapist who has started 3 families with three different women. As soon as the kids hit about 10, he started looking for another baby momma. He’d leave once the nee woman was pregnant and keeping the kid. I weep for the families he advises if that is his idea of a good home life.
Meanwhile I dropped out with only dissertation and internship left because it was too mentally overwhelming for me. One of my friends from grad school did complete his degree. He got a job in my home state but I stopped being friends with him as he was overly annoying on Facebook. Recently, I learned he gave pornography to an underaged client to watch the teen masturbate. And was allowed to quietly resign and move to California to work in a men's prison. How did I learn about this? Listening to an episode on Behind the Bastards podcast about child prisons.
Would this behaviour affect his ability to find work if police become involved?
Yes it would.
I went on one (1) single date with a therapist years ago. We had some really mediocre sex afterwards, and the next day he made me FaceTime his mom from his bed introducing me as his girlfriend and proceeded to harass me for YEARS when I "broke up" with him. Broke up said loosely since we were literally never dating in the first place lol. Being a therapist does not make you a well adjusted person
I have read here about marriage counselors who have cheated in the past or are still cheating.
“Do as I tell you, not as I do!”
I wonder if it actually normalizes the experience for them. You don't usually visit a marriage counselor when your marriage is amazing. Maybe they literally just believe over time "marriages are shit and everyone cheats"...
Lots of people love the power and opportunities to gaslight that being a psychologist provides. The history of the field is full of jaw dropping examples of inappropriate behaviour by therapists, to the point that discussing therapist abuse is a big part of the ongoing professional learning for therapists.
I know a few people that are psychologists and psychiatrists, and though I like them a lot, those occupations seem to attract people that are in dire need of their own services.
My wife used to work for a psychology research lab. Some people there were completely deranged and lacked basic empathy. Lots of stories of power trips from low level bosses, fraud, bullying, place was a damn serpentarium. So yeah, didn't bat an eye that guy's a psychologist lol
My first roommate outside my parents’ house was studying psychology. She threatened to kill my dog and I got a police escort when I moved out. I dearly hope she didn’t finish.
Oh, you dear sweet summer child. I have a psychology degree and a solid half my class were shitshows, and at least a third of those shitshows went on for clinical degrees.
So many people go into psychology/psychiatry and medicine to figure out what's wrong with them and how to hide it. Teaching is another favorite of narcissists and abuse purveyors.
The craziest people are the ones who work in psychology. The higher the degree, the more disturbed you are. Imho.
>I know he's not stupid. He is literally studying to be a clinical psychologist. I just cannot wrap my head around the fact that he genuinely believes in that saying and thinks it's a pass for his actions. It's always an absolute mindfuck when women pretend that their *grown men* are somehow unaware of the bullshit they're spouting.
I knew a guy who was excited for an upcoming Vegas bachelors weekend because he thought that the catch phrase was "real". No women involved in the conversation, he just straight up believed that he could do whatever he wanted and could *actually sue somebody* if they told his wife. To the point that he became very belligerent with the group. I didn't end up going on that trip to Vegas. There's no amount of stupid that is unbelievable.
Hard to comprehend this level of arrogant ignorance
Babe, I only downloaded Tinder to make friends!
That second to last comment is so weird. Did I miss something? Like, did the OOP say something about her ex being a sex addict or having substance abuse issues or something like that? Or is the commenter just a hardcore prude with an extremely warped view of relationships?
You can tell a lot by them saying "sinful entertainment." They just hate basically everything that goes on in Vegas and view it as Satan's lair on earth to corrupt people. It's not a comment made by someone who read the story and updates and considered things, it's just someone who has a very black and white view of the world and needed to preach at her.
It is someone who doesn’t think men should be held responsible for their actions around women.
Probably a religious nutter, based on the word choice of “sinful entertainment”.
I've gone to Vegas a dozen time and gone to a strip club maybe twice? Plenty of other fun shit to do like gambling and clubbing.
I'm willing to bet that commenter would say what you did was sinful too since it literally is by bible standards. But who knows, idunno what's in their heart. I just think them saying sinful is a big giveaway to how they see the world.
I think that last bit. The old "men have no impulse control! You can't expect them to be left alone with beautiful women"
Has to be the latter I think, like what do they even mean by "situations where the chance of them cheating is more than zero"? Given their attitude isn't that technically... any situation where the partner is not present? Like, does that person believe that all people in relationships should never go on trips or to events apart from each other because that's technically a greater than zero chance of cheating? I don't know, that comment really stood out to me as totally bizarre as well though
That commenter is the kind of person who thinks male bosses shouldn't ever have meetings alone with female subordinates. They make every situation sexual and think the only way to trust your partner is to control them completely. They also said "Monogamous partnerships don't work that way", but a good relationship means trust. My partner can go to a strip club if he wants to (he doesn't), and spend time with women if he likes. If I didn't trust him to do those things without cheating, why would I even be in a relationship with him in the first place?
Yeah that type of thinking really rubs me the wrong way. Like, I'm bisexual, does this mean that I can't have any friends or be alone with anyone because there's ALWAYS sexual tension to these people? I once was dating a man who told me that he thought it was inappropriate for women in relationships to talk in a friendly manner to strange men (but also confirmed that he had no such problem with me and other women), nipped that in the bud real quick. It's baffling how some people don't understand how interpersonal relationships are MOSTLY platonic, it really makes me wonder how those people go about their lives in their own heads.
The idea that she “let him be around those kind of temptations” is fucked. He’s an adult. He chose to go, which is his right. She laid out very hard limits for her, which is also fair. She covered a variety of the things that cause conflict in a relationship because they haven’t been explicitly discussed - some people consider lap dances cheating, some don’t. It’s good to talk about that clearly. She didn’t explicitly say “don’t stick your dick in girls you pick up” but she shouldn’t have had to do that. The type of people that “let” other people do things have a name - parent. He’s not her child, he’s just an idiot. I truly wonder if she has actual proof of his major because I’m terrified for his future patients.
Such a strange comment. "Monogamous partnerships don't work that way", what? MY monogamous partnership works by trusting him not to cheat no matter how many "temptations" he's surrounded by. I thought that was the point.
That’s what I was wondering too. Asking why she was OK with him being around all those temptations is extremely bizarre. Human beings are capable of exercising self-control and I’m reasonably sure she assumed he would be able to do that. If you assume your partner is going to cheat the minute they’re around other people, what’s the point of a relationship at all?!
I mean we’re talking about a strip club, it’s not unreasonable to be uncomfortable with your boyfriend going to a strip club.
I’m guessing based off their use of the word “sinful,” they’re a religious nutjob.
Yeah that rubbed me the wrong way too. Most kids "look with your eyes not your hands" around the age of 5..
He was studying to be a clinical psychologist? Yeah, he was definitely gaslighting her and trying to get away scot free
As someone who works in sexual health I can tell you with confidence: What happens in Vegas definitely **does not** stay in Vegas...
herpes knows no city boundaries
It sounds like she knew that he had the potential for sketchy behavior before the trip ever happened. He may not have acted on any of it until Vegas, but she knew enough to be worried that he was going to mess up.
One of her boundaries was for him to not have sex with someone else. I thought that kind of goes without saying if they're monogamous, but I guess this guy really did need the warning
And why did he agree to her restrictions if he didn't think they counted in Vegas? He knew exactly what he was doing. The number of loopholes cheaters try and come up with is as staggering as it is ridiculous.
Yeah I can’t imagine haven’t to set up this many rules for my partner. He should know better. He’s an adult???
The fact that she had to say all those rules out loud meant that she thought he would do those things unless she specifically asked him not to. Never mind that most of that list was simply being a decent partner.
Yeah the only one I could see needing to be stated explicitly is lap dances. Some monogamous couples are cool with that so that one I could see needing to lay out. The rest are absolutely insane to feel the need to specify.
I'd bet he used the language of abuse to gaslight her for a long time. I see a lot of abusers claiming that anyone who wants you to behave a certain way (ie don't cheat?) is controlling. She has been made to think that she is "just too controlling" "you're too sensitive" "it's just flirting" etc You see these people talk about how much they love their partner, but they don't realise you need to like your partner too. They should make you happy not sad!
Yeah the commenter that she called an ah was pointing at that, most probably. Her defense being "he was my only support system" is not helpful at all, that's how abusers operate.
This is a game of what's more likely? He got drunk, took women to his room and played Yahtzee? Or he fucked them. I think she knew what the answer was.
Heh, that was honestly my favorite part of the friends' initial reports. "Yeah, he brought girls back to his airbnb bedroom and shut the door, sometimes two at a time... *but I didn't hear anything sexual.*"
I guess if true they were all trying to give a benefit of the doubt if they actually didn't hear anything? Seems unlikely there wouldn't have been sounds given he was apparently coming home shitfaced, but maybe he put on music or they just all shoved their fingers in their ears?
Jeee*zusss*. At least she didn't marry this dumbass? Does that count as a silver lining?
Fools trying to blame her for a grown man's actions by asking why she would "allow" him to be tempted 🤦🏾♀️Just another way to blame her instead of him She's not his mother! She cannot control him!
Shitheads like this manage to convince girls to stay with them in serious relationships, what? I'm honestly surprised at some of these stories and the low standards some people have for themselves. This shit wouldn't fly in my friend circle, even before the vegas trip incident. You just don't go alone on a trip you plan with your partner!
She's 23, and had been with him starting at age 20. Fortunately, OOP isn't wearing layers of rose colored glasses, saw this for the BS it is, and left him. She'll take this knowledge going forward in future relationships and is unlikely to get trapped with another hobosexual.
Dude is apparently pulling 1-2 girls every night in Vegas. Has to be prostitutes. Nobody has that much game without paying big bucks
What dumbass even thinks to try using a tourist slogan as some binding legal protection from consequences?
That last comment was insane. I'm picturing a Mormon who doesn't allow himself to be alone in the same room with a woman.
That last comment from DruidWonder is a whole new level of WTF to this shit show. Apparently discussing boundaries of “enjoy Vegas but these are hard limits” is somehow indicative of major relationship issues?! 🤣🤦🏼♀️
Personally I find it a bit odd that they don't already know the boundaries after being together for 3 years. Maybe it's just me because personally I wouldn't want to be grinding on other women or even going to a strip club if I was in a relationship so I'd be very surprised if my girlfriend even mentioned it.
Especially when one of the boundaries is “don’t have sex with anyone else.” If it’s the boundary you live by every day, why would you need to specifically mention it on a list of “don’ts” for Vegas?
… I’m seriously confused. There was so little trust that she had to outline boundaries of effectively “remember you aren’t a college bachelor”? My partner has been on vacations with his friends and I’ve never once felt the need to say “please don’t cheat on me while you’re away”. Obviously the discussion was meaningless but still - the relationship was messed up from the get go in my book.
I'll never understand people like the last commentor - 'Why did you let him go to places where he could cheat?' I have two young kids, so chances for my wife and I to have fun, grown up holidays are slim. In the last couple of years, I've been to Vegas twice without her (I have a friend that lives there, so mostly stay with him and his fiancé) and she's gone away with her friends. The idea of cheating just doesn't cross my mind, even the nights I'm on my own in a hotel with literally no way anyone would ever find out. I absolutely expect that that the same is true of my wife, and have no problem whatsoever with her spending time away. This guy wanted to cheat. He put himself in situations where he could cheat. He did it in front of mutual friends, so obviously had no compunctions about cheating. And yet people are blaming her for believing she wasn't going out with someone that would do that? Mental.
If he so casually did this on a vegas trip with friends witnessing it all, he has definitely cheated on her before.
She should have sent a message to his professors to have a class discussion on if using slogans justifies infidelity. "I was wearing Nikes, so, you know. Just do it. :)"
My god I hope he gets therapy first before becoming a therapist.
Are you saying they don't have to?! It's a common requirement in at least some European countries (I haven't checked them all).
It’s wild how a marketing campaign for a city has turned into permission for so many people to disregard the feelings of others, lol. It would be like if everyone in Virginia just excused their romantic bad behavior because the ad agency said the state is for lovers!
"Thanks for thinking you know my entire relationship from a reddit post! You sound a lot like the person you're telling me to break up with. Especially telling me I have no self respect!" And this my friends is why it can be profoundly unhelpful and counter productive to tell someone directly to leave an abusive (or just generally shitty) relationship, particularly if you pressure them about it. They already have one person in their life pushing them to do what they want and not respecting their wishes. If you become a second person doing that you're just going to be noise to them and even push them reactively further back to their awful partner. Validate their feelings (you ARE being treated like shit, you're not crazy to be upset), make it clear you respect what they feel is best for them and that they are the authority on their own life. Let them know you'll support them if they leave. Hell, raise the subject of them leaving - try to discuss what their options could be, ask their thoughts about it - but don't push and don't badger them. You gotta be strategic because it has to be their choice. (And it is okay as well if you're out of capacity to hear about the relationship to say hey can we talk about anything else? you know my thoughts on this and i will be here if you decide to leave, but till then I can't be your sounding board). Anyway that was a wild tangent, I just thought it was a great example of how NOT to try to get someone to leave their partner lol
What’s with the commenter saying “why would you let him be around those kind of temptations if you were just going to set boundaries, he’s just going to cheat?” Most men who go to strip clubs don’t fuck the strippers. Millions of men are easily able to resist temptation (if it’s even there, stripping is just a job to many/most of these women. She was trying to compromise, quite reasonably I think.
OOP needs to file a report with her licensing board. Dude should not be allowed to counsel others on their mental health.
>What happens in Vegas stays in Vegas Yep, that's why people who get married in Vegas are only pretend married. It totally doesn't count. I can't figure out if OOP's ex has gone full dumbass or is so superior that they think they can wave away infidelity. Truly mind-boggling.
That whole story is nuts, but why the hell would a couple living together share a set of keys and not each have a copy? This is bugging me so much for some reason.
He literally cannot be this dumb lol he knew what he was doing and he knows what he's doing when he switches from profanities to compliance. Glad he's outta there
That last comment pissed me off so much
“He would get piss drunk (not the problem)”… Maybe not THE problem, but definitely sounds like A problem
Fercrissakes….”what happens in Vegas stays in Vegas” was fucking travel advertisement slogan.
Good gravy. The fact he wanted to go on that kind of holiday and SHE had to lay out thee boundaries rather than him saying ‘I want to spend the time with my friends, but no strip clubs or anything; we’ll probably gamble of course and go to clubs but I’m not interested in watching strip shows; if they want to go, I won’t be participating’ - you know, showing he’s considerate, aware and respectful.
I am sorry, but that last comment from "Druid Wonder" is bluegh. I have been in a monogamous relationship for 15 years. I would whole heartedly trust my partner in a "sinful entertainment" environment, because ***I trust his ability as an adult to make decision based on more than his penis.*** Alluding to this being OOP's fault because she 'allowed' him to go is bullshit. She doesn't need to allow him to do anything or not allow him. He should understand that there was boundaries (I mean, incredibly fair boundaries IMO) and he not only ignored them, he flouted his relationship with complete disregard. "Its not the mans fault he cheated, its the temptation wah wah wah" bullshit has to stop. You cheated, you made that choice. He is an adult. He made an adult decision and it had adult consequences. Grow up.
People telling op to not let him go see strippers. Seriously you don’t « let » a grown man do anything, he is not her child not A child and should be able to keep is pants on without her giving him rules. The main thing of an adult is knowing that the things you do have consequences without another adult having to tell you. If my boyfriend go see strippers he will know perfectly well that the rules is « your pants stay on and you only use your eyes » without me having to tell him.
If you have to sit down and have an entire conversation about what your *monogamous* partner can and can't do with strippers....that relationship was already fucked.
I disagree, I think it's important to establish clear boundaries in any relationship. Not everyone has the same limits. It just seems like he missed the step of then actually respecting those boundaries...
First thing I wish OOP knew was that if you have to explicitly tell your partner not to have sex with other people on vacay then you're relationship is already in trouble. But I really wish I could tell OOP to look into the seemingly invisible signals that people who have experience abuse/trauma give off that only other abusers can see. The other abusers look for these signals and target those people. If she isn't careful and aware she will continue to attract these predators. Also, stay aware from psych majors...generally they sought that field to try to figure out their own shit.
I keep thinking about the old cliche of people go into psy fields because they kind of know that they're unwell. I think this guy is going into psy so that he can get better at manipulating people.
This entire story is a damn mess but the sharing a set of keys is extra weird. Neither one ever needed a separate set of keys?
I will never understand the mentality of people to go to strip clubs. I literally do not understand it. Especially when you have a so at home. My friends and I are all nerds. I accept this. One went to Vegas recently. He and his wife did touristy things, went out to eat to different places, saw different shows. They skipped out on gambling or stripping because it's just not something they wanted to do.
At least OOP isn't tied to him permanently so she can give him the boot out of her life. Hopefully he didn't give her and STI as a parting gift.
Besides lying, he has a drinking problem.
I wonder if STDs stay in Vegas as well.
Zero percent shocked he tried to pull the “you can’t break up with me” line.