Their are not doing anything illegal. And they probably know the likelihood of tracing their blockchain transaction to the CCTV image when there are multiple hops.
Some are. On some you only need to put in a phone number to receive a 2fa verification code(this can be a burner phone) and the wallet address you want the bitcoin sent to. I think is has to be less than 2k or a certain amount to be able to do that. Others require an Id and for you to setup an account
The ssh/cloud/bearer tokens on that machine would be worth quite a bit of fiat...
Presumably you can boot up the drive in recovery mode, and if there's any plaintext login credentials around (quite likely) then the thief could use those to issue some api requests to the ATMs hot wallet and fake a number of btc purchases
this. the gas station by my house has a BTC atm. The guy that owns the gas station says some random woman comes in like once a week and deposits thousands of dollars. He said she just sits there and puts in stacks of hundred dollar bills. LOL!
That’s what I do. Did a thousand some odd dollar purchase, ours is at our liquor store, and I didn’t buy anything. I use these machines because it’s non KYC: the rarest kindnof bitcoin
I think most don't require IDs for txs under $1000. And you can do multiple <$1000 transactions. And cameras are useless, not only do they not store footage forever, but what will they do, ask the public to help identify the person that may or may not have been commiting simple tax evasion or money laundering?
No but all it takes to make video footage useless is a mask, or one of the many monitoring defeating devices out there. I saw a hoodie the other day that was modified with infrared strobing LEDs that flashed at a frequency designed to break camera auto-exposure. Combine that with one of those pieces of fabric that reflect flash photography for the hood, and you'll basically blind any camera that gets a look at you.
I believe you. My comment was actually for the dude you were responding to. They will never check security cameras unless it's a major case, and if that was the case, they probably wouldn't have much footage to check, since these kinds of footage aren't kept for long. There's no need for fancy technology in cases like these. Just some glasses or whatever, and keeping your head down and you can even get plausible deniability since cctv cameras don't have the best resolution, as everyone knows.
Cameras would definitely not be a problem. I think that modded clothing would actually attract more attention than the attention you're trying to avoid, if not hidden properly.
yes. They have access to everything, but they don't have the eyeballs unless its a major deal. So basically less than 5% and that's giving them some. Not saying go be a criminal but...the criminals have a HUGE advantage.
ID is not required on all machines. And while most rates are trash, you can find some machines with only about a 3% transaction fee. The privacy is worth it to some people...
There’s a CEO of Bitcoin???????????????????????
I thought it was decentralised since Satoshi disappeared??????
How do they handle succession??? Do I get to vote??? Where are they incorporated??
There's nothing funny about the CEO position. It's a critical role in any organisation and is often a key in it's success... Bitcoiners should practice high amounts of respect for this role...
ELI5: Bitcoin was created by an anonymous entity known to public as Satoshi Nakamoto.
Since its inception and actual invention, Satoshi has gone full incognito and nowhere to be found. The Sats stacked by Satoshi in the early CPU mining days, have been untouched ever since, meaning that Satoshi never “cashed out” of the then mined coins.
So since there is no specific entity to operate under traditional terms of ruling as a CEO, since this is a pseudonymous distributed ledger, a common joke around the crypto space is “The Bitcoin CEO… xyz”
Hence the reason why you will see the phrase “i am Satoshi” or “we are all Satoshi” referring to as being part of a larger collective than a single entity with most of the decision power.
Hope this helps.☺️✌️
This isn't as crazy as it sounds. If you can access the cash you can keep making "deposits" with the same $100 bill.
I suspect many of these machines detect tampering to prevent this sort of thing.
That’s not what double spend means. The exploit being described isn’t talking about sending the same BTC multiple times. It’s about using the same $100 bill to send different BTC multiple times. The blockchain does nothing to prevent this, nor should it. That’s a local issue which needs to be dealt with locally.
Double spending the same 100 bill. You guys are redic. And it's sad I have to spell it out. It was a joke about how fiat is inferior to btc because of how this is even possible.
It's not sad. It's just that this sub gets a lot of trolls who like to make fun of Bitcoin without understanding it at all, and that's what you sounded like.
I wonder the same tho, is there something in place to check if the exact same banknote has been used twice?
Let's say someone is able access the back of the machine and after inserting the cash and buy BTC, they would be able to take the cash from the back and buy more BTC with it.
Sure is double spending but it is also from cash from a machine, how would you control that.
The double spend isn’t necessarily an issue with in person fiat. You hand the banknote over to the merchant, it doesn’t magically reappear in your pocket. If you get the banknote back from the merchant, it’s a different UTXO and can therefore be spent again
What would happen?
Is there something in place to check if the exact same banknote has been used twice?
Asking this again ..
Let's say someone is able access the back of the machine and after inserting the cash and buy BTC, they would be able to take the cash from the back and buy more BTC with it.
Sure is double spending but it is also from cash from a machine, how would you control that.
Honestly i dont think you could because legal tender is ment to be recirculated so technically speaking you cant prevent the same bill from entering the machine multiple times
What if you steal the machine, break it open and feed it $100 send the Bitcoin to your address and then keep all the money you've pushed through the machine?
At some point they will cancell the account but how much Bitcoin would you have in your pocket? 🤔
I used to do this with Coke machines back in the 90s. Long tape on the dollar. Put it in, pull it back out. Get the drink and the change. We used to empty machines that way. It hasn't worked in decades though.
Same here, it worked on old vending machines and the best were the ones that would give you $1 in coins if you hit the coin return button. On those versions there was no mechanism to return a bill when you wanted your dollar back.
On time as a kid we poured ocean water into the coin slot of a soda machine. About 45 seconds later, every soda can in there came rolling out. A little different, but your comment reminded me of it.
Unless it later releases that number for reuse it might be reading it but it's unlikely to be using it for anything.
It's unlikely but entirely possible the same bill is used at different times.
It absolutely reads the serial number on bills. Identifying individual currency has been an ATM feature since the 1970's. So no, you cannot use the same bill over and over. You'd have better luck with really good counterfeit bills - but they would probably get rejected as well.
I used to work in a retail store that housed one of these. It was the only thing we were ever broken into for, and it happened at least 4 times within a year. Criminals know there’s money inside these things because they see people dumping Benjamins into them on a daily basis. I honestly think putting one of these in your business is one of the worst decisions you can make, and I wouldn’t be surprised if housing one increases your insurance rates by a ridiculous amount.
Probably just wanted the cash in the box, but the headline reminded me of the time airport dimwits searched a guy because they saw bitcoin in his luggage
https://www.forbes.com/sites/kashmirhill/2014/03/03/why-the-tsa-hassled-a-traveler-with-bitcoin-in-his-bag/?sh=607d406476d2
Try going to an American bank and withdraw 15k in cash most likely they will say they have to order it or come back some other day.
I live in Canada these things keep me bankless.
Some machines only offer purchasing BTC AND ALONG OTHER LIST OF CRYPTO.
Some machines you can withdraw cash in it... when withdrawing cash you get the options to withdraw
" SMALL , LARGE AMOUNTS OF FIAT MONEY "
SMALL = 1 CAD TO 9,999 CAD
LARGE = 10,000 CAD TO 25,000 CAD
SOME MACHINE WITH BUY/SELL OPTIONS EVEN LETS YOU WITHDRAW UP TO 100K CAD I THINK.
These machine let's you stay bankless or let's you not to resort on bank as little as you can.
THE MOST IVE LIQUIDATED BTC FROM MY BTC MOBILE WALLET INTO STRAIGHT CASH USING ONE OF THESE MACHINES WAS DURING THE WORST DAYS OF PANDEMICS...
I NEEDED CASH AND THE CLOSEST BANK HAD A LONG LINE UP.
INTEAD I WENT TO THE STORE CLOSE TO MY OLD PLACE WHICH HAD ONE OF THESE MACHINES AND SOLD BTC AND I WAS ABLE TO CASH OUT/WITHDRAW ALMOST $15,000 CANADIAN.
before that though I went back home and imported my mnemonic words into my cellphone btc wallet.
One of my wallet I remembered had a little over 4BTC at the time... which I imported into my cellphone and from there I went out and went to this to cash out some of it...
I now own 9 trezor/ledger wallets and some devices that has hot wallets with crypto and BTC INSIDE WHICH I DONT CONNECT TO THE INTERNET UNLESS I NEED TOO..
If you think these things are useless then you are not at a level yet where you know you can't trust institutions banks and etc for your wealth....
These thinks make the BTC MAXI WORLD GO ROUND.
ITS VERY HELPFUL WITH MY DAILY LIVES.
WHEN I NEED CASH I JUST GO HERE. I DONT EVEN BRING WALLET AT TIMES JUST MY PHONE AND ONE OF MY LEDGER WALLET.
Wait wait wait a minute , you tell me i can steal one of these , use the same bill of 500 euros to buy over and over again , and i can put it back in it's place in the morning? i should be fine?
lol don't they realize there is only 1 big coin in there.... this machine chips little pieces off and spits them out.... no one could carry that much bit
You posted a potentially made-up headline and stock photo. If you're trying to share actual news, consider providing additional information, i.e. who, when, where, how, link to source ...
How is that a safe atm to have actual fiat in. Anyone could easily break into that 'shoebox' and either take the money, or take advantage and deplete the whole wallet
Or did they try to steal the fiat paper inside it?
obviously the fiat lol
Jokes on the thief. No one uses these machines.
they serve a purpose.
Totally true. Just like mens size 18 golf shoes also serve a purpose.
Yeah Ronald McDonald has a great handicap.
Are you kidding me? The one in my local gas station always has one or two people in line at theirs. Drug dealers, I think..
I doubt it. Most probably are privacy conscious fellow humans who refuse to KYC for their precious BTC, but keep on stacking SATS.
Most every BTC ATM I can find requires KYC (Australia)
USA too
Pretty dumb drug dealers, standing in line at a gas station with security cameras in order to transact in a currency backed by a public ledger.
Their are not doing anything illegal. And they probably know the likelihood of tracing their blockchain transaction to the CCTV image when there are multiple hops.
You'd think drug dealers would just stick to fiat paper currency instead of using bitcoin unless they know how to operate with lightning through tor.
Some do
Don't they have really high fees?
Fees are higher then just buying from and exchange
Are you factoring in IRS 'fees' when you make that assumption? Non-KYC will always be cheaper in the long run... by a wide margin.
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Some are. On some you only need to put in a phone number to receive a 2fa verification code(this can be a burner phone) and the wallet address you want the bitcoin sent to. I think is has to be less than 2k or a certain amount to be able to do that. Others require an Id and for you to setup an account
Pun intended??
I thought you were going to say nobody uses fiat lol
Ummm reallly
The ssh/cloud/bearer tokens on that machine would be worth quite a bit of fiat... Presumably you can boot up the drive in recovery mode, and if there's any plaintext login credentials around (quite likely) then the thief could use those to issue some api requests to the ATMs hot wallet and fake a number of btc purchases
What if safe boot is password protected
Password is 'password'
Isn't it 12345
That’s the same code I use on my luggage!
Prepare Space Balls one for immediate departure, and change the combination of my luggage.
..678! 8 characters plus special character. Much safer.
Literally the default password for the Konica Minolta at work. Why even set a password?
Worlds most secure password
You have no idea!
Hackerman?
Or just take the fiat and gtfo of there
hope they could instantly revoke the tokens per machine, or at least use a TEE
this. the gas station by my house has a BTC atm. The guy that owns the gas station says some random woman comes in like once a week and deposits thousands of dollars. He said she just sits there and puts in stacks of hundred dollar bills. LOL!
😂nothing to see here…move along
That’s what I do. Did a thousand some odd dollar purchase, ours is at our liquor store, and I didn’t buy anything. I use these machines because it’s non KYC: the rarest kindnof bitcoin
Did she just figure out how to clean paper eaisly?
Without a trace. One smart lady
Is it? I thought all of these ATMs required ID and had cameras.
I think most don't require IDs for txs under $1000. And you can do multiple <$1000 transactions. And cameras are useless, not only do they not store footage forever, but what will they do, ask the public to help identify the person that may or may not have been commiting simple tax evasion or money laundering?
They'll run the face through software to id who it is
If there is a face lol, lots of ways around that
this is happening al over the place. They have no clue or the man power ..lol
Real life is not CSI
No but all it takes to make video footage useless is a mask, or one of the many monitoring defeating devices out there. I saw a hoodie the other day that was modified with infrared strobing LEDs that flashed at a frequency designed to break camera auto-exposure. Combine that with one of those pieces of fabric that reflect flash photography for the hood, and you'll basically blind any camera that gets a look at you.
I believe you. My comment was actually for the dude you were responding to. They will never check security cameras unless it's a major case, and if that was the case, they probably wouldn't have much footage to check, since these kinds of footage aren't kept for long. There's no need for fancy technology in cases like these. Just some glasses or whatever, and keeping your head down and you can even get plausible deniability since cctv cameras don't have the best resolution, as everyone knows. Cameras would definitely not be a problem. I think that modded clothing would actually attract more attention than the attention you're trying to avoid, if not hidden properly.
no they wont. Underfunded. No way in hell they have the man power.
You can look up people by photos online already, criminal justice systems have access to much more advanced tech.
yes. They have access to everything, but they don't have the eyeballs unless its a major deal. So basically less than 5% and that's giving them some. Not saying go be a criminal but...the criminals have a HUGE advantage.
They don't need eyeballs, the computers match the faces and tell you the matches
Worked in LE and you're 100% right.
exactly. have you ever tried to get a biz to give you footage of a crime? Unless you're the FBI fuck off.
You do know that will flag you as well
flagged? for what? the govt software to detect this doesnt exist
fly march snow wakeful voracious alive squealing ruthless wrench close *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Is is required.i used one but the rates are garbage. So Coinbase or Binance was the way to go
ID is not required on all machines. And while most rates are trash, you can find some machines with only about a 3% transaction fee. The privacy is worth it to some people...
cameras panmeras
you can get a good fake online for $100. Trivial.
It's the only real use case of BTC afterall
"They're *in* the computer??"
Probably about tree fiddy
In stacks of fawtys fo sho
Who steals crap *soon-to-be-worthless^tm*?
Fiat is useless and not as funny. They were after the Bitcoin. Let's roll with it.
This is getting ridiculous. Has the CEO of Bitcoin made a statement yet?
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There’s a CEO of Bitcoin??????????????????????? I thought it was decentralised since Satoshi disappeared?????? How do they handle succession??? Do I get to vote??? Where are they incorporated??
It’s a common joke around here. Just in case you see this for the first time. ☺️
There's nothing funny about the CEO position. It's a critical role in any organisation and is often a key in it's success... Bitcoiners should practice high amounts of respect for this role...
ELI5: Bitcoin was created by an anonymous entity known to public as Satoshi Nakamoto. Since its inception and actual invention, Satoshi has gone full incognito and nowhere to be found. The Sats stacked by Satoshi in the early CPU mining days, have been untouched ever since, meaning that Satoshi never “cashed out” of the then mined coins. So since there is no specific entity to operate under traditional terms of ruling as a CEO, since this is a pseudonymous distributed ledger, a common joke around the crypto space is “The Bitcoin CEO… xyz” Hence the reason why you will see the phrase “i am Satoshi” or “we are all Satoshi” referring to as being part of a larger collective than a single entity with most of the decision power. Hope this helps.☺️✌️
> How do they handle succession??? Do I get to vote??? Where are they incorporated?? Yes.
This isn't as crazy as it sounds. If you can access the cash you can keep making "deposits" with the same $100 bill. I suspect many of these machines detect tampering to prevent this sort of thing.
Unlimited money hack, now everybody knows that trick. Why you did that?
Go do it and see what happens😁
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It... would?
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You mean like a blockchain to fix the double spend issue... ;)
That’s not what double spend means. The exploit being described isn’t talking about sending the same BTC multiple times. It’s about using the same $100 bill to send different BTC multiple times. The blockchain does nothing to prevent this, nor should it. That’s a local issue which needs to be dealt with locally.
Double spending the same 100 bill. You guys are redic. And it's sad I have to spell it out. It was a joke about how fiat is inferior to btc because of how this is even possible.
It's not sad. It's just that this sub gets a lot of trolls who like to make fun of Bitcoin without understanding it at all, and that's what you sounded like.
I wonder the same tho, is there something in place to check if the exact same banknote has been used twice? Let's say someone is able access the back of the machine and after inserting the cash and buy BTC, they would be able to take the cash from the back and buy more BTC with it. Sure is double spending but it is also from cash from a machine, how would you control that.
The double spend isn’t necessarily an issue with in person fiat. You hand the banknote over to the merchant, it doesn’t magically reappear in your pocket. If you get the banknote back from the merchant, it’s a different UTXO and can therefore be spent again
It is if it's a copy of the same bank note.
shhh you have no clue
What would happen? Is there something in place to check if the exact same banknote has been used twice? Asking this again .. Let's say someone is able access the back of the machine and after inserting the cash and buy BTC, they would be able to take the cash from the back and buy more BTC with it. Sure is double spending but it is also from cash from a machine, how would you control that.
Honestly i dont think you could because legal tender is ment to be recirculated so technically speaking you cant prevent the same bill from entering the machine multiple times
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that's true, that would help for sure!
I prefer to be a white hat... most of the time 😄
What if you steal the machine, break it open and feed it $100 send the Bitcoin to your address and then keep all the money you've pushed through the machine? At some point they will cancell the account but how much Bitcoin would you have in your pocket? 🤔
OMG you are correct. I didn't think of that. Keep purchasing BTC with that same $100 bill.
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It really is!!! But I would be careful on how the money moves around because the ledger is so visible.
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I used to do this with Coke machines back in the 90s. Long tape on the dollar. Put it in, pull it back out. Get the drink and the change. We used to empty machines that way. It hasn't worked in decades though.
Same here, it worked on old vending machines and the best were the ones that would give you $1 in coins if you hit the coin return button. On those versions there was no mechanism to return a bill when you wanted your dollar back.
Crypto companies hate this one trick
Stick a bunch of notes together end to end, feed through the scanner, make a sealed loop, sit back and let it run 🤪
On time as a kid we poured ocean water into the coin slot of a soda machine. About 45 seconds later, every soda can in there came rolling out. A little different, but your comment reminded me of it.
I'm sure the machine is reading the serial number of each bill inserted.
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Unless it later releases that number for reuse it might be reading it but it's unlikely to be using it for anything. It's unlikely but entirely possible the same bill is used at different times.
It absolutely reads the serial number on bills. Identifying individual currency has been an ATM feature since the 1970's. So no, you cannot use the same bill over and over. You'd have better luck with really good counterfeit bills - but they would probably get rejected as well.
Neat!
I mean yeah there's a lot of ways to mitigate the attack vector but my point is it's a legitimate vector.
I bet they didn't think about that. 😂
So... BTC solved the double-spending problem, but that doesn't extend to fiat. Oh, the irony.
Fiat double spending has it too
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$5 wrench attack by the look of it.
I keep all my bitcoins in a shoe box buried in my back yard for safe keeping. I say “not your box, not you bitcoin” protect your shoe boxes folks.
Pretty sure they're after the _cash_ that's in there.
You know there's fiat money inside, right?
They obviously couldn't steal any BTC, but they were probably able to take the cash that was into the ATM.
They could consistently feed the the same fiat until the crypto wallet is drained and then take the fiat as well
These are fiat thieves
My guess is they were hoping to get cash not bitcoin..
OP is well regarded, you know those have cash in them?
Pretty sure they were after the cash.
I used to work in a retail store that housed one of these. It was the only thing we were ever broken into for, and it happened at least 4 times within a year. Criminals know there’s money inside these things because they see people dumping Benjamins into them on a daily basis. I honestly think putting one of these in your business is one of the worst decisions you can make, and I wouldn’t be surprised if housing one increases your insurance rates by a ridiculous amount.
Criminals try to steal fiat used to purchase BTC inside machine. Fixed it for you
where are them Bit coins???
The bitcoin ceo wont be happy to see this
Money is in it
There's cash inside dumb dumb.
Probably just wanted the cash in the box, but the headline reminded me of the time airport dimwits searched a guy because they saw bitcoin in his luggage https://www.forbes.com/sites/kashmirhill/2014/03/03/why-the-tsa-hassled-a-traveler-with-bitcoin-in-his-bag/?sh=607d406476d2
Try going to an American bank and withdraw 15k in cash most likely they will say they have to order it or come back some other day. I live in Canada these things keep me bankless. Some machines only offer purchasing BTC AND ALONG OTHER LIST OF CRYPTO. Some machines you can withdraw cash in it... when withdrawing cash you get the options to withdraw " SMALL , LARGE AMOUNTS OF FIAT MONEY " SMALL = 1 CAD TO 9,999 CAD LARGE = 10,000 CAD TO 25,000 CAD SOME MACHINE WITH BUY/SELL OPTIONS EVEN LETS YOU WITHDRAW UP TO 100K CAD I THINK. These machine let's you stay bankless or let's you not to resort on bank as little as you can. THE MOST IVE LIQUIDATED BTC FROM MY BTC MOBILE WALLET INTO STRAIGHT CASH USING ONE OF THESE MACHINES WAS DURING THE WORST DAYS OF PANDEMICS... I NEEDED CASH AND THE CLOSEST BANK HAD A LONG LINE UP. INTEAD I WENT TO THE STORE CLOSE TO MY OLD PLACE WHICH HAD ONE OF THESE MACHINES AND SOLD BTC AND I WAS ABLE TO CASH OUT/WITHDRAW ALMOST $15,000 CANADIAN. before that though I went back home and imported my mnemonic words into my cellphone btc wallet. One of my wallet I remembered had a little over 4BTC at the time... which I imported into my cellphone and from there I went out and went to this to cash out some of it... I now own 9 trezor/ledger wallets and some devices that has hot wallets with crypto and BTC INSIDE WHICH I DONT CONNECT TO THE INTERNET UNLESS I NEED TOO.. If you think these things are useless then you are not at a level yet where you know you can't trust institutions banks and etc for your wealth.... These thinks make the BTC MAXI WORLD GO ROUND. ITS VERY HELPFUL WITH MY DAILY LIVES. WHEN I NEED CASH I JUST GO HERE. I DONT EVEN BRING WALLET AT TIMES JUST MY PHONE AND ONE OF MY LEDGER WALLET.
one time I shit my pants at a burger King
Sigh... people do realize there is fiat cash in these, right?
If they were smart they would be politicians instead.
They took the cash XD
Wait wait wait a minute , you tell me i can steal one of these , use the same bill of 500 euros to buy over and over again , and i can put it back in it's place in the morning? i should be fine?
Steal the dip
And how it ended up on your balcony?
No. The scam is they make a large deposit then steal the money inside.
It's an ATM. You put in paper money for digital money. So there is hard currency inside.
no, they’re stealing the fiat. smh!
There is no bitcoin in there ,ther is fiat currency 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
Should have had the keys.
You mean the FIAT currency inside?
must be government
lol don't they realize there is only 1 big coin in there.... this machine chips little pieces off and spits them out.... no one could carry that much bit
Or they were trying to steal the dollars people put in there 🤷🏻♂️
Not fiat?
Oh no... anyway
If you aren’t aware, there happens to be cash in there as well.
They can’t do that. They most likely tried to steal the USD…
This is the equivalent to the SEC claiming the right to oversight of cryptocurrencies
You posted a potentially made-up headline and stock photo. If you're trying to share actual news, consider providing additional information, i.e. who, when, where, how, link to source ...
Bitcoin ATMs are cancer. Their rates are always 20% higher than the current market. Sometimes way more.
Bitcoins are tiny, bet there was millions in there
OP the slow one here
Reminds me of Owen Wilson and Ben stiller in zoo lander trying to break files out of a computer
I mean, technically…
When I worked as a noob in a factory, they used to send us beginners to fetch ”a bucket of pressure”. It seems that some of us never learned.
Ah! Bucket of steam on my side!
The files are IN the computer?
Bitcoins coins
How is that a safe atm to have actual fiat in. Anyone could easily break into that 'shoebox' and either take the money, or take advantage and deplete the whole wallet
Lol
Any news on whether they were successful?
FTX big hair dude was jonesing for some crypto. He was desperate to hit up an ATM!!
Wait til they melt them shits down and make a sick ass bitcoin cuban link chain
this teaches us that we still have a lot of educational work to do
Natural Selection at its finest.
Lmaoo
They tried to h@ck Bitcoin, but couldn't.
I think the damn thing has to be connected to the blockchain in some manner.
Damn criminals!
Reminds me of that scene from Zoolander when they thought the files were in the computer, physically
Classic…
Geniuses
That’s not how this works. That’s not how any of this works! 😂
"The files are inside the computer!"
They tried to steal data bytes
Probably meth heads
Fucking dumbasses
Genius
Obligatory “we really are early” comment
😂
Take that hardware wallet! /s
Haha funny!
😂🤣🤣🤣
obligatory "the files are *in* the computer" reference
U got to be kidding