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These guys are hard to scale because we have seen both of them in like 2 fights, but Hashirama’s regen should be enough to prevent Lumiere from killing him, and he can just stay in sage mode for infinite chakra, so I think he probably takes an endurance win.
What feats make Hashirama faster than L speed?
As far as I'm concerned,the fastest feet In the Entire Naruto Shippuden Series is Naruto dodging lightning.
Enlighten pls
You remember that scene when Madara casts infinite tsukiyomi? Sasuke literally travels faster than light itself and reaches the ground before it reaches Naruto, Kakashi and covers them with Susano? That's a sure feat.
I could give several others.
Are you dumb? He literally travelled faster than before the reflection from the moon could reach Naruto and kakashi? It's straight up a feat.
Now can you tell me where it was stated that the wizard king is light speed? Oh I want concrete proof/statement. I don't want something like oh he uses light based attacks so he's light speed.
He used light magic....
It's literally the fastest type of magic attribute a human being can have in BC.
Also Sasuke has the thing called sharingan.
Why would he be the only one to be able to react,and Naruto on the other hand couldn't?
>Why would he be the only one to be able to react,and Naruto on the other hand couldn't?
Why didn't you tell me sooner that you didn't watch Naruto? Let me simplify it for you then. The only one who wouldn't be caught in infinite tsukiyomi was just Sasuke. So he needed to cover Naruto with his Susano too so he wouldn't be affected by it. But then again you haven't even watched Naruto you already proved that with your reply. So what's the point of having this discussion.
You know I've got better things to do w/ my life.
And I'm the one who hasn"t seen the anime?
In the anime it literally shows that Sasuke flew towards them at normal susanoo speed and all of them reacted in the same manner.
By that stupid logic Sasuke was FTL at the Haku fight since in the data book it states that Hakus mirror Technique allowed him to travel at L speed across those mirrors.
It wasn't Sasuke who was that fast,but his Sharingan Allowed him to see it beforehand.
And also what does that have to do with Hashirama?
Hashirama isn't as fast as Sasuke anyways so your whole argument is pointless to it's core.
Not to mention light magic also heals so whos to say lumier wouldnt keep healing?? He was also loved by mana giving him a better source of energy. Having a manazone which guarantees a hit,could damage demons with his magic so he could def do lasting damage to hashirama,has the sleed completly on lock. In all honesty yall love hasirama and its the only reason yall would even debate this lumeire wins mid dif
Hashirama’s probably taking this one because of his insane vitality and durability. Realistically, they’d likely not fight each other in the first place
I don't even know if Hashirama can keep up with him even, he could spin around him and move unpredictably while simultaneously launching beams of light and even if he decides to use any of large scale attacks like Deep Forest Emergence or any of his giant wood golem stuff, he can remain in the air.
His only thing keeping him a threat is his sage mode and his physical prowess, he can predict him and get lucky he may have a chance against a flying machine gun
How? Aside from exceptions like Ohnoki, Naruto, Sasuke, Madara, Hashirama, etc. I'd imagine most BC characters are stronger than most Naruto characters.
Like, Luck would dominate Shino or Kiba.
That's irrelevant, that's like saying "Lumière claps cause he killed demon Licht who was about to wipe out a country".
You have to take into account the massive difference in speed, their attack potency, durability, hax etc.
Raikage is literally stated to be FTL. And Madara was literally toying with him and along with other kages whose speed were in the same level.
Now I'll ask you to prove how the wizard king FTL.
Fair enough.
>Now I'll ask you to prove how the wizard king FTL.
Yami confirmed Raia was lightspeed just like human Patry in (chapter 51 when Raia touched his grimoire). Human Patry became faster after releasing all his mana against Julius and then Elf reincarnated Patry got an additional power boost after being reincarnated. Zagred then speedblitzed Elf reincarnated Patry with his spells meaning he's even faster than him. And Lumière then outsped a Zagred who became even stronger (so possibly faster) after obtaining a grimoire.
That’s actually a tricky question because Hashirama is a sage, essentially giving him beyond superhuman reflex’s and the ability to sense “energy” while the Wizard King is a light magez
Hashirama, hashirama was pulling his own eight in the war arc and that wasn’t even him at his max cause of the edo tensei, and lumiere just doesn’t properly scale to any of the strongest characters rn in black clover so hashirama wins
Hashirama. It's not close. Best Lumiere could do is hit him with a light attack which hashirama could just regenerate from + he has clones and his buddha thing (Which is probably as strong as that demon Lumiere defeated, maybe a bit weaker, but hashirama can probably summon it more than once with the amount if reserves he has)
Love hashirama but hes getting blitzed easily. Lumière is light speed at the minimum plus he has mana zone as well so hashirama isnt get him off gaurd how ppl think he can.
None of the naruto characters are faster than light. Even if they dodge light speed attacks... naruto danger sense from six paths sage mode is what made him be able to sense then react to the attack its not like he did that based off of pure speed like in black clover or bleach with majority of the wizards or soul readers that were close to captain lvl.
Lumière is stronger than julius who is a time magic. User that was making light look slow even the damn elf questioned is he even fighting a human. And that same human would lose to Lumière.
Plus the mages can fly.
>Lumière is light speed at the minimum plus
Bruh the raikage was FTL easily. And madara was clapping him and the other kages simultaneously while just using shadow clones.
>has mana zone as well so hashirama isnt get him off gaurd how ppl think he can.
Sage mode is the better version since it also increases reaction speed.
>None of the naruto characters are faster than light.
Bruhhhh. By that logic none of the black clover characters are.
No the raikage wasn't and never was faster than light that was a mistranlation in the databooks just like hebi sasuke being stronger than all the akatsuki etc. The only move in naruto that was light speed was so6p madara light fang and as i said naruto reacted to that because of sage mode not speed. So he sensed the chakra building up in madara plus the danger sense that comes with sage mode..
Also mana zone is superior to sage mode on god. All the abilities sage mode grants it user mana zone as that and some all the users have some form of precognition with mana zone plus the ability to cast any attack within their range plus negate other magic users ability to use their on magic unless the mana zone users skill lvl is on par.
So no sage mode even on hagaromo lvl dosent let anyone use it like that. I forgot there isnt a limit to how much mana a mage can abosorb but sage mode untill you aquire so6p sage mode cant do that. So just by default there would be way more mana zone users in black clover than any sage mode users in naruto.
Lastly they are using the elements and other forces that make up their magic as if it were the real thing. So light magic is light operates no different than real light. So if some is using light magic to move they will be moving at the speed of light thus why when the julius was fight patolli that elf was confused baffled and scared as to why a human can keep up with light magic.
In black clover they are really using the properties of those elements as how they are in real life like gravity magic bone magic etc. Not like naruto where they change the chakra to correlate with their affinity of nature. For example ill use the karma seal from boruto.... that seal can only absorb chakra based attacks so Kirin wont be abosorbed and in black clover the mages are using that same concept feom nature it just requires mana to summon and on top of that there is a lvl of true magic which amps up the user output of mana.
So just by default black clovers fodder mages can even have mana skin and if you apply mana zone on top of that their defence is though the roof where as only a certain amount of sage mode users have been seen in naruto so not every can even benefit from sage mode....
>Lumière is stronger than julius who is a time magic.
Yeah you didn't read jackshit. Neither black clover not Naruto. So just shut up in these kinds of conversation unless you're able to read/watch the series properly.
Lumière and licth is stronger than julius!!!!! Julius can even tap into his true power due to him being controlled.... both of them knew true magic.
Aslo if your gonna respond cut the attitude and slander or dont respond at all. Keep that energy for you friends this is a disscusion not a argument.
bit hard, i say lumiere prolly wins on speed since all his shit is light based tho hashirama could be high balled to be ftl but idk much about that. Tho in terms of physical stats and experience i give it to hashirama. Insane regen and dude's been fighting since he could.
To put this in perspective for people, lumiere uses light magic and is pretty easily much stronger than patry when using it. That same patry was able to catch the wizard king off guard and compete with TIME MAGIC. Not think to yourself, would hashirama handle time magic well. If not I don’t think he’d handle light magic well either.
He never caught the wizard king off guard. I imagine you’ve watched Naruto, but the exact same thing happened with gaara. He chose the people over himself
He did catch the wizard king off guard. That’s the whole point of forcing him into saving the town. That’s what off guard means aka off of his guarding position. But either way even Julius mentioned how patrys light magic was a problem seeing as though it made it hard to not kill Williams body
REMINDER: **Anything that hasn't happened yet in the anime is a spoiler**. ^This ^message ^is ^posted ^automatically ^to ^every ^thread ^without ^a ^Spoiler ^tag. **How to spoiler tag comments**: \>!Put your text here!< (Don't leave any spaces between the "!" and the text or it won't work!) *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/BlackClover) if you have any questions or concerns.*
These guys are hard to scale because we have seen both of them in like 2 fights, but Hashirama’s regen should be enough to prevent Lumiere from killing him, and he can just stay in sage mode for infinite chakra, so I think he probably takes an endurance win.
One is FTL, the other isn't. Also, regen isn't the deciding factor since it's not instantaneous
>One is FTL, the other isn't. I mean sure if you wank your series and blatantly ignore the feats shown in other series then sure.
What feats make Hashirama faster than L speed? As far as I'm concerned,the fastest feet In the Entire Naruto Shippuden Series is Naruto dodging lightning. Enlighten pls
You remember that scene when Madara casts infinite tsukiyomi? Sasuke literally travels faster than light itself and reaches the ground before it reaches Naruto, Kakashi and covers them with Susano? That's a sure feat. I could give several others.
Where is it stated that he travelled that fast?
Are you dumb? He literally travelled faster than before the reflection from the moon could reach Naruto and kakashi? It's straight up a feat. Now can you tell me where it was stated that the wizard king is light speed? Oh I want concrete proof/statement. I don't want something like oh he uses light based attacks so he's light speed.
He used light magic.... It's literally the fastest type of magic attribute a human being can have in BC. Also Sasuke has the thing called sharingan. Why would he be the only one to be able to react,and Naruto on the other hand couldn't?
>Why would he be the only one to be able to react,and Naruto on the other hand couldn't? Why didn't you tell me sooner that you didn't watch Naruto? Let me simplify it for you then. The only one who wouldn't be caught in infinite tsukiyomi was just Sasuke. So he needed to cover Naruto with his Susano too so he wouldn't be affected by it. But then again you haven't even watched Naruto you already proved that with your reply. So what's the point of having this discussion.
You know I've got better things to do w/ my life. And I'm the one who hasn"t seen the anime? In the anime it literally shows that Sasuke flew towards them at normal susanoo speed and all of them reacted in the same manner. By that stupid logic Sasuke was FTL at the Haku fight since in the data book it states that Hakus mirror Technique allowed him to travel at L speed across those mirrors. It wasn't Sasuke who was that fast,but his Sharingan Allowed him to see it beforehand. And also what does that have to do with Hashirama? Hashirama isn't as fast as Sasuke anyways so your whole argument is pointless to it's core.
Not to mention light magic also heals so whos to say lumier wouldnt keep healing?? He was also loved by mana giving him a better source of energy. Having a manazone which guarantees a hit,could damage demons with his magic so he could def do lasting damage to hashirama,has the sleed completly on lock. In all honesty yall love hasirama and its the only reason yall would even debate this lumeire wins mid dif
Lumiere has Mana zone? Didn't know about that one. But overall agree
His very first magic used against Zagred was Mana Zone: Lamp of Avior Gloria
Mb
I mean... hard to scale them vs each other :3
How are you everywhere 😭 I used to reply on ur comments some years ago in the HxH subreddit
Hyo :3
You're asking this in a black clover sub so the answers will be obvious. Still I think Hashirama wins this one.
Prove he wins it then
He's him. Done.
Can confirm he is in fact Him
cringe
argument?
Hashirama’s probably taking this one because of his insane vitality and durability. Realistically, they’d likely not fight each other in the first place
Lumiere blitzes
I don't even know if Hashirama can keep up with him even, he could spin around him and move unpredictably while simultaneously launching beams of light and even if he decides to use any of large scale attacks like Deep Forest Emergence or any of his giant wood golem stuff, he can remain in the air. His only thing keeping him a threat is his sage mode and his physical prowess, he can predict him and get lucky he may have a chance against a flying machine gun
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No lmao
How? Aside from exceptions like Ohnoki, Naruto, Sasuke, Madara, Hashirama, etc. I'd imagine most BC characters are stronger than most Naruto characters. Like, Luck would dominate Shino or Kiba.
Luck ain't doing shit to Madara nor Naruto and Sasuke
Are you illiterate?
I'm not
Sure seems like it. Reread my comment until you understand what I said. Get back to me then.
Bro's taking so serious over who is stronger 💀
Its not that bros taking it serious, its more like u didnt properly read their comment -_-
Top tier Naruto characters could casually destroy the moon. Show me one guy in BC which has shown that level of destructive feat.
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Jack's strongest attack didn't even cut the entire clover Kingdom
Im gonna go ask this question in a powerscaling subreddit and see what answers I get
Let us know what you get😂 plz
So far, Edo Hashirama beats Statue Body Lumiere but living Lumiere beats Living Hashirama
I believe it! Thanks😃
Will do
They wouldn't fight, neither of them like conflict, they will just talk over tea.
Fuck that overhyped regneration merchant, but Lumiere is absolutely not winning this one.
They both have unimaginably strong moves, so I assume the fastest one wins. So It must be Lumiere.
Speed doesn't matter
Yes it does bruh lmao. What good is a powerful attack if it doesn’t hit its target.
There's waiting for your opponent to come to you, wise guy
Hashirama claps. Hashirama could literally beat madara with Kurama.
That's irrelevant, that's like saying "Lumière claps cause he killed demon Licht who was about to wipe out a country". You have to take into account the massive difference in speed, their attack potency, durability, hax etc.
All of which Madara exceeds in comparison to wizard king.
Show me a feat where alive MS Madara or alive Hashirama could go FTL.
Raikage is literally stated to be FTL. And Madara was literally toying with him and along with other kages whose speed were in the same level. Now I'll ask you to prove how the wizard king FTL.
Fair enough. >Now I'll ask you to prove how the wizard king FTL. Yami confirmed Raia was lightspeed just like human Patry in (chapter 51 when Raia touched his grimoire). Human Patry became faster after releasing all his mana against Julius and then Elf reincarnated Patry got an additional power boost after being reincarnated. Zagred then speedblitzed Elf reincarnated Patry with his spells meaning he's even faster than him. And Lumière then outsped a Zagred who became even stronger (so possibly faster) after obtaining a grimoire.
hashirama wins cus he beat someone
I gave an argument already in this same thread you can read it but if you're just gonna cry then go ahead.
not crying just tryna show how silly that point is
None, but hashrama would be kind and not kill me
I would pick my friend Kevin.
I think Lumiere wins because of range and speed but if Hashirama closes the gap at all I got him high diff
I like BC but hashirama is one of the OG GOATS. I would bet all my money on him and walk out a millionaire.
Hashirama
Depends on who’s faster.
Which would be Lumiere, no?
In terms of movement speed yes, but reaction speed could probably go either way.
Fair assessment.
How so when the wizard king would have mana zone wgich is better than sage mode.
>mana zone wgich is better than sage mode. And why exactly?
Yep
Alr
That’s actually a tricky question because Hashirama is a sage, essentially giving him beyond superhuman reflex’s and the ability to sense “energy” while the Wizard King is a light magez
my mans Lumiere
Hashirama, hashirama was pulling his own eight in the war arc and that wasn’t even him at his max cause of the edo tensei, and lumiere just doesn’t properly scale to any of the strongest characters rn in black clover so hashirama wins
Hashirama. If you can’t kill him in a single hit you can’t beat him based on their power scaling
Hashirama. It's not close. Best Lumiere could do is hit him with a light attack which hashirama could just regenerate from + he has clones and his buddha thing (Which is probably as strong as that demon Lumiere defeated, maybe a bit weaker, but hashirama can probably summon it more than once with the amount if reserves he has)
Hashirama may have more DC, but Lumiere can move as light so yeah if physics works he's done for
Love hashirama but hes getting blitzed easily. Lumière is light speed at the minimum plus he has mana zone as well so hashirama isnt get him off gaurd how ppl think he can. None of the naruto characters are faster than light. Even if they dodge light speed attacks... naruto danger sense from six paths sage mode is what made him be able to sense then react to the attack its not like he did that based off of pure speed like in black clover or bleach with majority of the wizards or soul readers that were close to captain lvl. Lumière is stronger than julius who is a time magic. User that was making light look slow even the damn elf questioned is he even fighting a human. And that same human would lose to Lumière. Plus the mages can fly.
>Lumière is light speed at the minimum plus Bruh the raikage was FTL easily. And madara was clapping him and the other kages simultaneously while just using shadow clones. >has mana zone as well so hashirama isnt get him off gaurd how ppl think he can. Sage mode is the better version since it also increases reaction speed. >None of the naruto characters are faster than light. Bruhhhh. By that logic none of the black clover characters are.
No the raikage wasn't and never was faster than light that was a mistranlation in the databooks just like hebi sasuke being stronger than all the akatsuki etc. The only move in naruto that was light speed was so6p madara light fang and as i said naruto reacted to that because of sage mode not speed. So he sensed the chakra building up in madara plus the danger sense that comes with sage mode.. Also mana zone is superior to sage mode on god. All the abilities sage mode grants it user mana zone as that and some all the users have some form of precognition with mana zone plus the ability to cast any attack within their range plus negate other magic users ability to use their on magic unless the mana zone users skill lvl is on par. So no sage mode even on hagaromo lvl dosent let anyone use it like that. I forgot there isnt a limit to how much mana a mage can abosorb but sage mode untill you aquire so6p sage mode cant do that. So just by default there would be way more mana zone users in black clover than any sage mode users in naruto. Lastly they are using the elements and other forces that make up their magic as if it were the real thing. So light magic is light operates no different than real light. So if some is using light magic to move they will be moving at the speed of light thus why when the julius was fight patolli that elf was confused baffled and scared as to why a human can keep up with light magic. In black clover they are really using the properties of those elements as how they are in real life like gravity magic bone magic etc. Not like naruto where they change the chakra to correlate with their affinity of nature. For example ill use the karma seal from boruto.... that seal can only absorb chakra based attacks so Kirin wont be abosorbed and in black clover the mages are using that same concept feom nature it just requires mana to summon and on top of that there is a lvl of true magic which amps up the user output of mana. So just by default black clovers fodder mages can even have mana skin and if you apply mana zone on top of that their defence is though the roof where as only a certain amount of sage mode users have been seen in naruto so not every can even benefit from sage mode....
>Lumière is stronger than julius who is a time magic. Yeah you didn't read jackshit. Neither black clover not Naruto. So just shut up in these kinds of conversation unless you're able to read/watch the series properly.
Lumière and licth is stronger than julius!!!!! Julius can even tap into his true power due to him being controlled.... both of them knew true magic. Aslo if your gonna respond cut the attitude and slander or dont respond at all. Keep that energy for you friends this is a disscusion not a argument.
bit hard, i say lumiere prolly wins on speed since all his shit is light based tho hashirama could be high balled to be ftl but idk much about that. Tho in terms of physical stats and experience i give it to hashirama. Insane regen and dude's been fighting since he could.
At most i think lumiere is multi contitnental better speed,but i think it would fall onto hax even tho he blitz's badly
To put this in perspective for people, lumiere uses light magic and is pretty easily much stronger than patry when using it. That same patry was able to catch the wizard king off guard and compete with TIME MAGIC. Not think to yourself, would hashirama handle time magic well. If not I don’t think he’d handle light magic well either.
He never caught the wizard king off guard. I imagine you’ve watched Naruto, but the exact same thing happened with gaara. He chose the people over himself
He did catch the wizard king off guard. That’s the whole point of forcing him into saving the town. That’s what off guard means aka off of his guarding position. But either way even Julius mentioned how patrys light magic was a problem seeing as though it made it hard to not kill Williams body
I don’t know who the first guy is but he has very little chances against Hashirama. :)
He’s Lumiere, the first Wizard King
Oh he was wizard king he is strong. I watched last black cower long anime wizzard kings are strong but I never watched story itself.
The one about the wizard kings sword. :)
If you don't even know who that is, then what makes you think you know how strong the guy is?
Hashira is very strong if you don’t have sage of 6 path powers he will take you down :).
By that logic Hashirama can take Goku down since he doesn't have 6P powers 💀
:)
I mean he captured 10 tails when he was in his giant form :).