There’s two ways to interpret this ability, and neither is particularly balanced. You didn’t specify that there were no Minions in the setup conditions, so I’m inclined to assume they’re in play. If that is the case:
Two extra evils is really, *really* strong. It also does not work in Teensyville games (Demon + Minion + 2 extra evils makes 4 evils vs 1 good). There’s a reason so many custom script creators advise against putting Mezepheles and Bounty Hunter on the same script. Maybe only one extra evil would work on specific scripts. Evil having that much voting power is almost unbeatable at times. There’s also no need for the random Outsiders. Kazali has that because the ST doesn’t know who the Kazali will pick to become Minions. This Demon just turns players evil.
If there are no Minions in play, it needs to be specified in the ability, and should be part of the square brackets (see Kazali). If that’s the case, why wouldn’t you use Kazali instead? In large games I’d rather have 2 or 3 Minions than 2 evil Townsfolk, in Teensyville games it’s ridiculously strong, and in 7-9 player games, it’s a free extra evil that requires careful script-making.
Tl;dr: Ability text is unclear. Might be absurdly strong or a weaker Kazali depending on script, setup, and how the ability text should be interpreted
As written this demon is beyond broken.
It pretty much automatically wins 7 player games. You have to actively try to lose as evil.
It also has voting parity from the start in 8p games so evil almost certaintly wins.
Okay.
7 Players, 5 Good, 2 Evil.
You now have 3 Good, 4 Evil.
As such, all evil players are incentivized to never vote on any nomination ever. They can play open evil. The Demon knows who is evil. The Demon can easily control all the kills. Good cannot win because the evil townsfolk should never ever ever vote.
8 Players, 6 Good, 2 Evil.
You now have 4 Good, 4 Evil.
As such, Evil players can simply out as evil if the demon is ever on the block and force a tie, even if the good team is coordinated in full, which they NEVER ARE.
Because of this, this demon cannot possibly function as written, even in theory, in a game of 8 players or fewer.
Your edited version still sucks.
You're trading out all of the evil minions for what are basically, evil players whose only power is having an evil vote.
It's actually the opposite problem. It's kinda interesting in 7-9 player games now, because you get +1 evil player compared to normal, but your evil team only have a meaningful role socially, not mechanically. In 13+, you're down a player and those players do not have a useful ability.
Really, a demon has to function in games of 5 to 15. At a minimum, it needs to function in any regular sized game (7 to 15). Because this demon can't do that, this demon is not viable.
By Viable, I mean that a Demon has to have some kind of unique property that makes it markedly better than a Generic Demon (tm) which is simply "Each night\*, choose a player. They die."
Your original version is useless in big games, OP in small games. Your new one is kinda interesting in a 1 minion game, but trading out two or three evil minions for two evil townsfolk is a horrific trade, and I'd rather just be a Generic Demon (tm) than be this demon in 10+ games.
Does this remove Minions? Two extra evil players is absurdly powerful, especially in small games.
E.g. in a 7 player game, evil has a voting majority from the start (4 vs 3) and cannot lose unless one of them votes on the demon. In fact, the game is only winnable for good at 9 players or 11+. And even then, good needs to play almost perfectly and not waste any dead votes on anyone that isn’t the demon.
If it’s like the Kazali in that it replaces minions then this is very weak. In large games you’re swapping out 3 minions for two evil townsfolk, and mid-sized game have two evil townsfolk instead of 2 minions is just a net loss.
I like the concept of this but this execution is poor. I think maybe make it similar to the popular homebrew lillith. How about “each night* choose a player they die. On your first night learn a good players character than choose 2 players, they turn evil[-1 minion]” this results in a net gain of evils for evil but the loss of a useful minion additionally it only learning one players character is a bit more balanced in my opinion. The outsider ambiguity seems kinda out of place hear so I elected to not include it. This new ability is a bit more balanced while keeping your initial vision, although this might still be quite strong I am unsure.
Fair enough I will say though that that makes this characters power level extremely situational. In a 5-6 player game it’s somewhat over powered, in 7-9 it’s pretty good, in 10-12 it’s a little weak, and in 13+ it’s just not good. I think [-1 minion] might just work better, still not great for teensy but some characters just aren’t teensy characters and that’s fine.
Here is my take.
Choose a player each night*, they die. Start by choosing players equal to the number of minions in play, they are evil and one of their neighbour is poison until the chosen player dies. [No Minions and - 1 Bluff].
This will cause a lot of false info to the town. The evil team will be spreading false information from their role and their neighbour will be getting wrong info. Your evil could claim their are neighbouring the chosen players and accuse their neighbours. Could work if you like a chaotic town.
There’s two ways to interpret this ability, and neither is particularly balanced. You didn’t specify that there were no Minions in the setup conditions, so I’m inclined to assume they’re in play. If that is the case: Two extra evils is really, *really* strong. It also does not work in Teensyville games (Demon + Minion + 2 extra evils makes 4 evils vs 1 good). There’s a reason so many custom script creators advise against putting Mezepheles and Bounty Hunter on the same script. Maybe only one extra evil would work on specific scripts. Evil having that much voting power is almost unbeatable at times. There’s also no need for the random Outsiders. Kazali has that because the ST doesn’t know who the Kazali will pick to become Minions. This Demon just turns players evil. If there are no Minions in play, it needs to be specified in the ability, and should be part of the square brackets (see Kazali). If that’s the case, why wouldn’t you use Kazali instead? In large games I’d rather have 2 or 3 Minions than 2 evil Townsfolk, in Teensyville games it’s ridiculously strong, and in 7-9 player games, it’s a free extra evil that requires careful script-making. Tl;dr: Ability text is unclear. Might be absurdly strong or a weaker Kazali depending on script, setup, and how the ability text should be interpreted
How about [-1 minion] instead? That way you're getting an extra evil in exhange for less power and coordination.
Oh shoot - I just forgot to put that in the role :P
As written this demon is beyond broken. It pretty much automatically wins 7 player games. You have to actively try to lose as evil. It also has voting parity from the start in 8p games so evil almost certaintly wins.
Explain? EDIT: I just realised I forgot to include \[No Minions\] on the ability. My bad!
Okay. 7 Players, 5 Good, 2 Evil. You now have 3 Good, 4 Evil. As such, all evil players are incentivized to never vote on any nomination ever. They can play open evil. The Demon knows who is evil. The Demon can easily control all the kills. Good cannot win because the evil townsfolk should never ever ever vote. 8 Players, 6 Good, 2 Evil. You now have 4 Good, 4 Evil. As such, Evil players can simply out as evil if the demon is ever on the block and force a tie, even if the good team is coordinated in full, which they NEVER ARE. Because of this, this demon cannot possibly function as written, even in theory, in a game of 8 players or fewer.
Did you read my message?
Your edited version still sucks. You're trading out all of the evil minions for what are basically, evil players whose only power is having an evil vote. It's actually the opposite problem. It's kinda interesting in 7-9 player games now, because you get +1 evil player compared to normal, but your evil team only have a meaningful role socially, not mechanically. In 13+, you're down a player and those players do not have a useful ability. Really, a demon has to function in games of 5 to 15. At a minimum, it needs to function in any regular sized game (7 to 15). Because this demon can't do that, this demon is not viable. By Viable, I mean that a Demon has to have some kind of unique property that makes it markedly better than a Generic Demon (tm) which is simply "Each night\*, choose a player. They die." Your original version is useless in big games, OP in small games. Your new one is kinda interesting in a 1 minion game, but trading out two or three evil minions for two evil townsfolk is a horrific trade, and I'd rather just be a Generic Demon (tm) than be this demon in 10+ games.
Does this remove Minions? Two extra evil players is absurdly powerful, especially in small games. E.g. in a 7 player game, evil has a voting majority from the start (4 vs 3) and cannot lose unless one of them votes on the demon. In fact, the game is only winnable for good at 9 players or 11+. And even then, good needs to play almost perfectly and not waste any dead votes on anyone that isn’t the demon. If it’s like the Kazali in that it replaces minions then this is very weak. In large games you’re swapping out 3 minions for two evil townsfolk, and mid-sized game have two evil townsfolk instead of 2 minions is just a net loss.
Yes, it removes Minions (I forgot to include that in the ability XD)
I like the concept of this but this execution is poor. I think maybe make it similar to the popular homebrew lillith. How about “each night* choose a player they die. On your first night learn a good players character than choose 2 players, they turn evil[-1 minion]” this results in a net gain of evils for evil but the loss of a useful minion additionally it only learning one players character is a bit more balanced in my opinion. The outsider ambiguity seems kinda out of place hear so I elected to not include it. This new ability is a bit more balanced while keeping your initial vision, although this might still be quite strong I am unsure.
I just forgot to include \[No Minions\] in the ability :P
Fair enough I will say though that that makes this characters power level extremely situational. In a 5-6 player game it’s somewhat over powered, in 7-9 it’s pretty good, in 10-12 it’s a little weak, and in 13+ it’s just not good. I think [-1 minion] might just work better, still not great for teensy but some characters just aren’t teensy characters and that’s fine.
Alright - I'll give it a shot :)
Here is my take. Choose a player each night*, they die. Start by choosing players equal to the number of minions in play, they are evil and one of their neighbour is poison until the chosen player dies. [No Minions and - 1 Bluff]. This will cause a lot of false info to the town. The evil team will be spreading false information from their role and their neighbour will be getting wrong info. Your evil could claim their are neighbouring the chosen players and accuse their neighbours. Could work if you like a chaotic town.