Gives the Storyteller more room to balance the game. If it didn't have any outsider mod it would still be too strong in a 0-outsider base on a script with no positive outsider mod. Basically some of the recent modifications including this one take some Scriptwriting issues/decisions and turn them into Storyteller issues/decisions.
The point of the change overall was to lower a sober balloonist’s power level whilst decreasing its fragility, so it’s more consistent and easier to use in script building. The outsider change was part of thar
Old balloonist as you noted needed to be paired with evil outsider modification and specifically evil negative outsider modification to avoid the balloonist’s additional outsider being extremely confirmatory and too powerful for good. The plus 1 was there because on base 0 balloonist was far too powerful without it (it learned three players, two of whom were evil and one who was the demon) but on base 1 or base 2 the extra outsider was strictly a positive for the balloonist
Without that, it will be harder to specifically solve the balloonist and their extra outsider is good based on outsider count, which does make world building harder. That’s the intention. Balloonist (both versions) is about creating a logic puzzle that player A and player B don’t share a character type. It should never have been self confirming by outsider count—that was too strong.
I believe the purpose of the +0/1 outsider is to give the Storyteller more options of who to show and add an amount of uncertainty in which characters the new ballonist sees.
Without the possibility of adding an outsider then in a game with none in play the new ability becomes "each other night learn one of the evil team" as the Storyteller could only go from Townsfolk to minion or demon.
Changing it from a certain +1 to a +0/1 is a bit of a plus for the Storyteller as well as it is quite possible to forget the +1 the original one had, particularly if you had to change the numbers of players mid setup and wanted to be quick.
The balloonist was much stronger with +1 outsider than it would be with no outsider mod at all, I think they just felt this was too powerful. If they removed the outsider mod completely then balloonist would sometimes only get 3 names so I think it's necessary.
I agree it was sometimes more powerful but also more interesting from a player and script building perspective. Only getting 3 names is no longer an issue with the new ability, but I don't really want it removed anyway, I want it to be a strict \[+1\].
Really hard to add outsider manipulation to teensies since baron turns half of the townsfolk, GF adds more killing to an already small game, fang gu can turn half the players evil. The new ruling makes it so less teensies are dependent on the sentinel.
Outsider modification is rarely seen in good characters, because they’re confirmable, before, if you had a Balloonist, and only one extra outsider claim, that is one of the quickest confirms you have, as you know they’re both on the same team, good or evil, and that’s a once per game townsfolk ability. Letting it be ambiguous gives not only fuzzy worlds, but also lets players of opposite alignment to the Balloonist to better bluff outsiders.
I completely agree, and still play with the old Balloonist ability. I really hope something similar to the old one is added as a Greatest Show character.
The change to the Outsider count lets the storyteller balance the game which I'm happy with. In the past I just always put Balloonist on scripts with a \[-? to +? Outsiders\] character.
Gives the Storyteller more room to balance the game. If it didn't have any outsider mod it would still be too strong in a 0-outsider base on a script with no positive outsider mod. Basically some of the recent modifications including this one take some Scriptwriting issues/decisions and turn them into Storyteller issues/decisions.
Which in turn can help these experimental characters in the future when they get released to work on scripts that aren't necessarily set up for them
The point of the change overall was to lower a sober balloonist’s power level whilst decreasing its fragility, so it’s more consistent and easier to use in script building. The outsider change was part of thar Old balloonist as you noted needed to be paired with evil outsider modification and specifically evil negative outsider modification to avoid the balloonist’s additional outsider being extremely confirmatory and too powerful for good. The plus 1 was there because on base 0 balloonist was far too powerful without it (it learned three players, two of whom were evil and one who was the demon) but on base 1 or base 2 the extra outsider was strictly a positive for the balloonist Without that, it will be harder to specifically solve the balloonist and their extra outsider is good based on outsider count, which does make world building harder. That’s the intention. Balloonist (both versions) is about creating a logic puzzle that player A and player B don’t share a character type. It should never have been self confirming by outsider count—that was too strong.
I believe the purpose of the +0/1 outsider is to give the Storyteller more options of who to show and add an amount of uncertainty in which characters the new ballonist sees. Without the possibility of adding an outsider then in a game with none in play the new ability becomes "each other night learn one of the evil team" as the Storyteller could only go from Townsfolk to minion or demon. Changing it from a certain +1 to a +0/1 is a bit of a plus for the Storyteller as well as it is quite possible to forget the +1 the original one had, particularly if you had to change the numbers of players mid setup and wanted to be quick.
The balloonist was much stronger with +1 outsider than it would be with no outsider mod at all, I think they just felt this was too powerful. If they removed the outsider mod completely then balloonist would sometimes only get 3 names so I think it's necessary.
I agree it was sometimes more powerful but also more interesting from a player and script building perspective. Only getting 3 names is no longer an issue with the new ability, but I don't really want it removed anyway, I want it to be a strict \[+1\].
Really hard to add outsider manipulation to teensies since baron turns half of the townsfolk, GF adds more killing to an already small game, fang gu can turn half the players evil. The new ruling makes it so less teensies are dependent on the sentinel.
We really need a +1 outsider evil character that doesn't break Teenseyville. Balloonist has been a crutch for too long
Agreed!
Outsider modification is rarely seen in good characters, because they’re confirmable, before, if you had a Balloonist, and only one extra outsider claim, that is one of the quickest confirms you have, as you know they’re both on the same team, good or evil, and that’s a once per game townsfolk ability. Letting it be ambiguous gives not only fuzzy worlds, but also lets players of opposite alignment to the Balloonist to better bluff outsiders.
I completely agree, and still play with the old Balloonist ability. I really hope something similar to the old one is added as a Greatest Show character. The change to the Outsider count lets the storyteller balance the game which I'm happy with. In the past I just always put Balloonist on scripts with a \[-? to +? Outsiders\] character.