I thought the pills were Sarah Lynn's but I was misremembering... They're actually Herb's. Chemo kills the appetite. He was so skinny when he died... Now I'm sad... Lol
Third Person pov -its his idea and he imagines following through with it and is at peace and as he gets closer to the water he realizes what he's done to himself
It's hard to explain truly but in the beginning he was disassociated speaking about himself in 3rd person POV as if he was watching from the outside. Second person POV he begins to connect himself again. 1st person POV he identifies with himself again
Just rewatched the scene, the 2nd person is when he says "you" instead of "him" (3rd person) or "I" (first person), I get it now. This makes this scene SO much more profound, and just better.
No, this makes complete sense, that's 100 percent what they were trying to get across. And it makes sense that he'd become much more present and in the moment once he was near the water. It was pretty much inevitable that he'd become present finally, he's literally faced with what he's just done. Thanks for explaining! This scene was always my favorite in the entire series, and now I love it even more. I do have one question, which section was when he was talking in 2nd person? I know it's the middle, but do you know the exact parts of it when it was in second person? I know 3rd and 1st person, but 2nd I'm not as familiar with.
It serves as a subliminal countdown and strips the distance Secretariat puts between himself and what's happening away.
*He* is going to die.
*You* are going to die.
*I* am going to die.
Each stanza makes it increasingly more personal.
This kind of connects with the episode we first see Charlotte, when she says something about the tar pit and not knowing you’re drowning in it till it’s too late. Then in TVFHD, the tar consumes him more and more until he’s drowned.
When Corduroy Jackson Jackson is doing his rope performance and Bojack and Herb are looking out the door he swings by hanging by his neck, and then back to his normal performance, and falling through the door
The metaphor of the cardinal being trapped and dying in the house, foreshadowing death. That part always gets me. Also the symbolism of the hydrangeas that bojack brings at the beginning
Birds dying indoors tend to symbolize and foreshadow death. In the episode, we think they chase the bird out of the house, but later when bojack is running from the tar, we realize that the bird is still trapped indoors and ends up dying, foreshadowing Bojack’s (near) death. Side note: last year, we had a bird fly into my workplace and die after hitting a window. Two of my cats died later that summer. I think it was definitely a sign.
Another interpretation of the bird that I read: the bird symbolizing love and happiness and all the characters trying and failing to catch it. Cardinals are also seen as messengers for those who have passed to their loved ones.
My favorite is the shadow of Beatrice when she's about to go into the door. The oil consumes her, it tightens up, and the shadow takes the form of what I think is a lobotomy pick.
I'm not sure about this, and never seen anybody comment on it, but I saw that in my first viewing and can't unsee it.
There was no rest of the poem in the same way there is no other side. Bojack’s mind didn’t create more of the poem, because secretariat’s story ended there. The leftover pages symbolize what *could* have been, not what was.
Not a small detail, but I like that Secretariat was also BoJacks dad. He was missing a reliable father figure and found one in a celebrity, but that father figure also ended up having some of the same demons as him
YES!! i was waiting for someone to connect these two!! how bojack was lacking a father figure in butterscotch, but found one in secretariat is fucking brilliant writing.
This isn't my favorite detail in the whole thing, but a background detail is how Bojack's chair at the table is a coffin. (And he's never had a reason or desire to look back at it and find out.)
I can’t believe no one mentioned the 17 minutes. BoJack waited 17 minutes to call the paramedics for Sarah Lynn. And 17 minutes into The View From Halfway Down, it’s revealed that BoJack isn’t waking up.
It also really puts into perspective how long BoJack waited to call for help for Sarah Lynn.
i didn’t notice this until a recent rewatch, this just shows how amazing the series is, let alone this episode by itself. putting into perspective the 17 minutes is truly amazing.
I had never noticed that before!!
As for the question (I don’t know if this one is my *favorite* detail, but I think it’s often overlooked): The subtle callback to when Bojack came home from New Mexico and Diane was still there. She was talking about how she wishes she could redo things — she’d go home and Mr. Peanutbutter would ask how her day was and she’d say “my day was good.”
On that ‘final phone call’ with Bojack, she says “my day was good” in the exact same tone.
The fact that Bojack literally took Sarah Lynn to the afterlife, and the fact that she arrived as a child then throughout the episode she got older. Bo j already put “don’t stop dancing” into her head when she was 3-5.
Sarah Lynn's version of 'Don't Stop Dancing.' It was such a different experience than Gina's version, but Sarah Lynn's was a still a continuation of the same story.
My favourite part of it is definitely the poem and how the tone changes throughout, but my favourite less obvious part is how it lines up with the recurring dream Bojack was telling Dr Champ some episodes ago. I only noticed when I rewatched it
Him not being able to swallow "food", pills I mean, and complaining the water tastes like chlorine. They get him a different bottle, based on his expression, same problem. If I remember correctly anyways.
i wept when i was watching this episode. ugly sobbing because i was certain bojack was dead when he was drinking that chlorine water. this show fucked me up a little bit.
Bojack seeing himself face down in the pool exactly 17 minutes into the episode. The same amount of time he waited before calling paramedics after Sarah Lynn’s OD
I'm not sure if this can count as a detail, but their conversation at the dinner table about morality/selflessness.
Corduroy Jackson Jackson says nothing is selfless if you derive pleasure from the experience and Sarah Lynn gets really upset. She starts talking about how she gave her life for people to experience happiness from her music, TV, fashion etc.
Beatrice makes a dismissive, scornful comment (her fav thing) about how Sarah Lynn died in a hedonistic bender and Sarah Lynn is like, "I'm not talking about my death, I'm talking about my LIFE. I gave my life. That has to count for something." That line always gets me.
To me, this whole convo is Bojack is obviously trying to answer his own, "Am I good person, Diane?" question from S1.
I also love the line about how Crackerjack's only kills were friendly fire cos it's so dark and funny and feels like another lowkey callback to Neil McBeal and Bojack's views on the military.
I also liked that argument as I frequently think about how helping someone is the highest satisfaction one can get but it’s about them feeling good about themselves for helping others. So, I think I agree with Corduroy Jackson Jackson with this one. Helping others is inherently selfish, unlike what Herb said.
The tar taking Beatrice, specifically the ribbon unraveling to nothing.
I've watched dementia kill too many people long before their bodies died.
Zach Braff not getting a final meal and instead having to serve the others.
The poem definitely fucks me up the most, but Sarah Lynn singing Don’t Stop Dancing is a close second.
I guess another detail I really appreciate is when the dream sequence extends past the point it usually does; telling us, Bojack has had the dream of the dinner party and meeting all those dead people from his past before, but he usually wakes up by the time they go from the dinner to the show.
her singing that song is the most haunting shit I'll ever see. I was just deeply unsettled and uncomfortable this entire episode, which, I think was the whole point.
At the exact, EXACT 17 minute mark of the episode, Bojack looks down into the pool and realizes he’s dying. Which still blows me away, of course it’s 17 minutes!
I think if it was even just roughly 17 minutes in the episode it’d hit hard, but the fact that it’s on the exact mark just makes it all the more killer. There will never be a show like Bojack Horseman
honestly, this episode is just PACKED with tiny details to appreciate, to the point that it’s so hard to pick a fav! one i didn’t see mentioned in the comments so far is the way that, when bojack is on the phone with diane, he wraps the phone cord around his own neck by accident. it’s a subtle reference to the fact that even though he may not have meant to do this, and he was incredibly intoxicated, more intoxicated than he’d been in over a year… it may have been an accident, but he still did this to himself. no one else is at fault. speaking of the fact that it was the first time he’d been that intoxicated in over a year, i’m not sure how intentional it was, but i’m just realising that he died while taking tons of pills and drinking heavily after being sober for a year, maybe a month or less after breaking sobriety. and sarah lynn was only sober for 9 months, but *she* died while heavily intoxicated after breaking sobriety. combined with the 17 minutes detail in the episode, it seems like a subtle reference to how bojack and sarah lynn had a lot in common bc of their addiction problems and extreme difficulty in coping with fame, and especially the sudden lack of it after getting used to it. which is also highlighted by bojack’s subconscious speaking through sarah lynn about legacy and trying to soothe himself with the idea of being remembered after death.
Everyone’s food being related to their life/death during the dining scene
this was also more “haunting” to me, one of those details that just sat with me uncomfortably.
Exactly, I love how many details there are to unpack so every rewatch reveals more and more
yeah, felt a little "death row" to me.
Their last meals.
I thought the pills were Sarah Lynn's but I was misremembering... They're actually Herb's. Chemo kills the appetite. He was so skinny when he died... Now I'm sad... Lol
The pills are Bojack's. Herb has peanuts.
Lol I was looking right at it but I guess I am stupid haha
The fact the poem goes from third person narrative to second then to first
yes. the poem itself is incredible.
this is my roman empire actually. think about it literally all the time
I hadn't noticed this before! Thank you for sharing.
Oh shit! I never noticed that! I wonder why they decided to have it written that way.
Third Person pov -its his idea and he imagines following through with it and is at peace and as he gets closer to the water he realizes what he's done to himself
No I get all that, I was just saying that I'm curious as to why they had it rotate throughout the poem, from 3rd to second to first person.
It's hard to explain truly but in the beginning he was disassociated speaking about himself in 3rd person POV as if he was watching from the outside. Second person POV he begins to connect himself again. 1st person POV he identifies with himself again
Just rewatched the scene, the 2nd person is when he says "you" instead of "him" (3rd person) or "I" (first person), I get it now. This makes this scene SO much more profound, and just better.
No, this makes complete sense, that's 100 percent what they were trying to get across. And it makes sense that he'd become much more present and in the moment once he was near the water. It was pretty much inevitable that he'd become present finally, he's literally faced with what he's just done. Thanks for explaining! This scene was always my favorite in the entire series, and now I love it even more. I do have one question, which section was when he was talking in 2nd person? I know it's the middle, but do you know the exact parts of it when it was in second person? I know 3rd and 1st person, but 2nd I'm not as familiar with.
Think of 3...2...1.. 0
It serves as a subliminal countdown and strips the distance Secretariat puts between himself and what's happening away. *He* is going to die. *You* are going to die. *I* am going to die. Each stanza makes it increasingly more personal.
The other guy already explained it to me, that's so fucking profound.
I teach it to my students every year. Love that poem
It's a pretty intense poem, how old are your students?
I never even realized that, wow
This kind of connects with the episode we first see Charlotte, when she says something about the tar pit and not knowing you’re drowning in it till it’s too late. Then in TVFHD, the tar consumes him more and more until he’s drowned.
OH MY GOD I NEVER PICKED UP ON THE TAR PIT?!? THAT'S SO SMART
oh my god i’ve never picked up on this
IRK I’m like what do the black drips m mean lol
When Corduroy Jackson Jackson is doing his rope performance and Bojack and Herb are looking out the door he swings by hanging by his neck, and then back to his normal performance, and falling through the door
oh god this also fucked me up a bit. seeing him like basically hang himself and go limp, then into the darkness really stuck with me.
It was definitely a blink then you miss it
it’s a hard detail to forget imo but yes, it’s very quick. most of the details riddled in the episode are like that.
Sarah Lynn holding her nose before diving into the void. When a person overdoses on heroin, they feel so high that they forget how to breathe.
Ooh that's a good one
that’s a great detail holy shit
oh fuck.
The metaphor of the cardinal being trapped and dying in the house, foreshadowing death. That part always gets me. Also the symbolism of the hydrangeas that bojack brings at the beginning
can you describe the cardinal a bit more? ive never understood it
Birds dying indoors tend to symbolize and foreshadow death. In the episode, we think they chase the bird out of the house, but later when bojack is running from the tar, we realize that the bird is still trapped indoors and ends up dying, foreshadowing Bojack’s (near) death. Side note: last year, we had a bird fly into my workplace and die after hitting a window. Two of my cats died later that summer. I think it was definitely a sign. Another interpretation of the bird that I read: the bird symbolizing love and happiness and all the characters trying and failing to catch it. Cardinals are also seen as messengers for those who have passed to their loved ones.
ohhh woah, thank you for explaining! I’m sorry about your cats as well🫶🏻
Same
My favorite is the shadow of Beatrice when she's about to go into the door. The oil consumes her, it tightens up, and the shadow takes the form of what I think is a lobotomy pick. I'm not sure about this, and never seen anybody comment on it, but I saw that in my first viewing and can't unsee it.
Just reading this gave me chills! I’ll have to go back and rewatch!
oh my god. i’m going to rewatch and take note of that, that’s incredible
mmmm now I need to go back and look at this.
The scene is [here](https://youtu.be/aUQRhECXaZQ?si=U_gX0ab2YtMLeeSv) on YouTube.
omg thank you kind human!
How secretariat only read 3 of the 4 pages of his poem before falling through the door. He wasn’t finished
i never noticed this, that’s honestly so sad…i wonder what else was in the poem
There was no rest of the poem in the same way there is no other side. Bojack’s mind didn’t create more of the poem, because secretariat’s story ended there. The leftover pages symbolize what *could* have been, not what was.
Damn that was beautifully put
Damn. Love this take.
Not a small detail, but I like that Secretariat was also BoJacks dad. He was missing a reliable father figure and found one in a celebrity, but that father figure also ended up having some of the same demons as him
YES!! i was waiting for someone to connect these two!! how bojack was lacking a father figure in butterscotch, but found one in secretariat is fucking brilliant writing.
happy cake day!!
Oh shit, might be time for my yearly deletion of Reddit lol
D: happy death day
This isn't my favorite detail in the whole thing, but a background detail is how Bojack's chair at the table is a coffin. (And he's never had a reason or desire to look back at it and find out.)
Oh damn I never noticed that!
WHAT
HUH
oh my god!!
I can’t believe no one mentioned the 17 minutes. BoJack waited 17 minutes to call the paramedics for Sarah Lynn. And 17 minutes into The View From Halfway Down, it’s revealed that BoJack isn’t waking up. It also really puts into perspective how long BoJack waited to call for help for Sarah Lynn.
i didn’t notice this until a recent rewatch, this just shows how amazing the series is, let alone this episode by itself. putting into perspective the 17 minutes is truly amazing.
I had never noticed that before!! As for the question (I don’t know if this one is my *favorite* detail, but I think it’s often overlooked): The subtle callback to when Bojack came home from New Mexico and Diane was still there. She was talking about how she wishes she could redo things — she’d go home and Mr. Peanutbutter would ask how her day was and she’d say “my day was good.” On that ‘final phone call’ with Bojack, she says “my day was good” in the exact same tone.
Holy fuck I never realized this.
yes!! i thought it sounded familiar!!
holy shit i never noticed this
The fact that Bojack literally took Sarah Lynn to the afterlife, and the fact that she arrived as a child then throughout the episode she got older. Bo j already put “don’t stop dancing” into her head when she was 3-5.
Sarah Lynn's version of 'Don't Stop Dancing.' It was such a different experience than Gina's version, but Sarah Lynn's was a still a continuation of the same story.
And the shirt she wore has hands on her boobs…
“A song you taught me when I was small”
My favourite part of it is definitely the poem and how the tone changes throughout, but my favourite less obvious part is how it lines up with the recurring dream Bojack was telling Dr Champ some episodes ago. I only noticed when I rewatched it
Him not being able to swallow "food", pills I mean, and complaining the water tastes like chlorine. They get him a different bottle, based on his expression, same problem. If I remember correctly anyways.
i wept when i was watching this episode. ugly sobbing because i was certain bojack was dead when he was drinking that chlorine water. this show fucked me up a little bit.
oh my god yes the chlorine water, and how he was drowning in the pool…i got chills.
Bojack seeing himself face down in the pool exactly 17 minutes into the episode. The same amount of time he waited before calling paramedics after Sarah Lynn’s OD
one of my favorite details as well.
I'm not sure if this can count as a detail, but their conversation at the dinner table about morality/selflessness. Corduroy Jackson Jackson says nothing is selfless if you derive pleasure from the experience and Sarah Lynn gets really upset. She starts talking about how she gave her life for people to experience happiness from her music, TV, fashion etc. Beatrice makes a dismissive, scornful comment (her fav thing) about how Sarah Lynn died in a hedonistic bender and Sarah Lynn is like, "I'm not talking about my death, I'm talking about my LIFE. I gave my life. That has to count for something." That line always gets me. To me, this whole convo is Bojack is obviously trying to answer his own, "Am I good person, Diane?" question from S1. I also love the line about how Crackerjack's only kills were friendly fire cos it's so dark and funny and feels like another lowkey callback to Neil McBeal and Bojack's views on the military.
I also liked that argument as I frequently think about how helping someone is the highest satisfaction one can get but it’s about them feeling good about themselves for helping others. So, I think I agree with Corduroy Jackson Jackson with this one. Helping others is inherently selfish, unlike what Herb said.
Sarah Lynn ages as he eats and the food changes (Bojack remembers her definitely from different ages
Secretariat’s poem & the way he started regretting his actions before he fell through the darkness.
The tar taking Beatrice, specifically the ribbon unraveling to nothing. I've watched dementia kill too many people long before their bodies died. Zach Braff not getting a final meal and instead having to serve the others.
The poem. I have beem suicidal myself so to read it has helped me through really tough moments of my life
agreed. it’s helped me out of several tough points.
The poem definitely fucks me up the most, but Sarah Lynn singing Don’t Stop Dancing is a close second. I guess another detail I really appreciate is when the dream sequence extends past the point it usually does; telling us, Bojack has had the dream of the dinner party and meeting all those dead people from his past before, but he usually wakes up by the time they go from the dinner to the show.
yes!! this stuck with me as well. about how bojack has had experiences close to death before, but this was his closest.
her singing that song is the most haunting shit I'll ever see. I was just deeply unsettled and uncomfortable this entire episode, which, I think was the whole point.
Completely agree! She never really had a chance 🥺 and that song just really managed to encapsulate everything about her story.
At the exact, EXACT 17 minute mark of the episode, Bojack looks down into the pool and realizes he’s dying. Which still blows me away, of course it’s 17 minutes!
that detail will always sit with me.
I think if it was even just roughly 17 minutes in the episode it’d hit hard, but the fact that it’s on the exact mark just makes it all the more killer. There will never be a show like Bojack Horseman
fucking incredible.
I loved that Secretariat was shown as Bojacks’ dad instead of butterscotch!
honestly, this episode is just PACKED with tiny details to appreciate, to the point that it’s so hard to pick a fav! one i didn’t see mentioned in the comments so far is the way that, when bojack is on the phone with diane, he wraps the phone cord around his own neck by accident. it’s a subtle reference to the fact that even though he may not have meant to do this, and he was incredibly intoxicated, more intoxicated than he’d been in over a year… it may have been an accident, but he still did this to himself. no one else is at fault. speaking of the fact that it was the first time he’d been that intoxicated in over a year, i’m not sure how intentional it was, but i’m just realising that he died while taking tons of pills and drinking heavily after being sober for a year, maybe a month or less after breaking sobriety. and sarah lynn was only sober for 9 months, but *she* died while heavily intoxicated after breaking sobriety. combined with the 17 minutes detail in the episode, it seems like a subtle reference to how bojack and sarah lynn had a lot in common bc of their addiction problems and extreme difficulty in coping with fame, and especially the sudden lack of it after getting used to it. which is also highlighted by bojack’s subconscious speaking through sarah lynn about legacy and trying to soothe himself with the idea of being remembered after death.
Should've been the series finale with Bojack dead
You're getting down voted but you're absolutely right would have been a much better finale bringing everything full circle with the opening.
Yes