I’m very skeptical of this. I’m a pitching coach for a local high school and these kids are obsessed with throwing hard. Gun days are a mess to the point that we’re thinking of ending them altogether.
Nevermind the workload that’s being put on young people between the ages of 13-21. At this point, as a coach, I’m just hoping to find a good balance of workload and development that is enough that these kids can go to college for free.
I say all this to say, I think workload and heavy emphasis on Velo are our problem in the baseball community. Not getting up there and throwing at a faster pace.
15-12 years ago I was working as an outpatient therapist. I had several kids with elbow pain and forearm tightness. All of them played year round ball (and no other sports), pitching multiple times a week and playing most innings on the field when not pitching. This isn't because of the pitch clock. These are repetitive trauma injuries and will continue with increasing regularity as long as baseball emphasizes hard throwing. Hell my 7 year old will switch to kid pitch next year and I'm terrified because a kid who can throw 60mph but has absolutely no control is going to be throwing. But it's what is being told matters, even to the kids now. Throw hard.
I agree with you. I'm older than you, my son is now in college.
When he was playing travel ball and looking for college opportunities all that mattered was velo.
If you can't throw 90+ even as a lefty (my son) then you can forget D1.
Every single tournament we played had radar guns.
Lakepoint had the velo on the centerfield scoreboard and you'll see pitchers casually peel over their shoulder to look.
It's all about velo.
I feel another issue is a generation of pitchers who grew up playing year round and being taught to throw breaking balls before puberty. Bodies aren’t meant to pitch year round.
Absolutely. It’s a combination. Throw hard and throw all year. MLB season is too long as it is. But this goes down the ladder where players are gaming 24/7 at this point between high school and college or the international leagues. The season is over for one team then you go play for another. Wearing people out
But it’s also coaches and influences teaching these young people throwing hard and a tommy john is nothing these days makes for very worn out arms.
And everything is max effort. people have played year round baseball for a long time but the emphasis wasn't always on huge velo and break every pitch.
They didn’t make many back then, and with velo increases across the sport, likely won’t emphasize the pinpoint control that accompanies extremely successful lower-velocity pitchers.
Plus, you cannot rightfully set a “speed limit” won’t work without a penalty, and definitely won’t work *with* a penalty.
Just look at Shane Beiber. He has probably the best control of all modern pitchers and a change of 1-2 mph on his fastball is the difference between being a CY Young candidate and being average, but his elbow also doesn't seem to last very long at the CY Young candidate level.
It’s not just the max velocity, it’s specifically training to maximize spin rates too.
So yes, it’s the brute force of throwing hard, but it’s also the violent force of trying to spin breaking balls faster and faster as well.
What about the abundance of pitcher injuries and TJ surgeries before the pitch clock? This is a bullshit excuse. Teach pitchers to pitch instead of just throwing gas out there.
15-12 years ago I was working as an outpatient therapist. I had several kids with elbow pain and forearm tightness. All of them played year round ball (and no other sports), pitching multiple times a week and playing most innings on the field when not pitching. This isn't because of the pitch clock. These are repetitive trauma injuries and will continue with increasing regularity as long as baseball emphasizes hard throwing. Hell my 7 year old will switch to kid pitch next year and I'm terrified because a kid who can throw 60mph but has absolutely no control is going to be throwing. But it's what is being told matters, even to the kids now. Throw hard.
I’m very skeptical of this. I’m a pitching coach for a local high school and these kids are obsessed with throwing hard. Gun days are a mess to the point that we’re thinking of ending them altogether. Nevermind the workload that’s being put on young people between the ages of 13-21. At this point, as a coach, I’m just hoping to find a good balance of workload and development that is enough that these kids can go to college for free. I say all this to say, I think workload and heavy emphasis on Velo are our problem in the baseball community. Not getting up there and throwing at a faster pace.
They can say that but there's been a steady increase correlating with velo long before pitch clock came about
Not to mention the pitch clock was in the minors for a few years prior, and I don’t believe there was a spike in injuries over that time
Nah. It's the max effort and crazy velo shit.
Peak pitching injuries were 2021, by trips to the IL. It’s not the pitch clock.
There’s been excessive arm injuries in baseball for like a decade or more. Long before the pitch clock was a glint in Manfred’s eye.
15-12 years ago I was working as an outpatient therapist. I had several kids with elbow pain and forearm tightness. All of them played year round ball (and no other sports), pitching multiple times a week and playing most innings on the field when not pitching. This isn't because of the pitch clock. These are repetitive trauma injuries and will continue with increasing regularity as long as baseball emphasizes hard throwing. Hell my 7 year old will switch to kid pitch next year and I'm terrified because a kid who can throw 60mph but has absolutely no control is going to be throwing. But it's what is being told matters, even to the kids now. Throw hard.
I agree with you. I'm older than you, my son is now in college. When he was playing travel ball and looking for college opportunities all that mattered was velo. If you can't throw 90+ even as a lefty (my son) then you can forget D1. Every single tournament we played had radar guns. Lakepoint had the velo on the centerfield scoreboard and you'll see pitchers casually peel over their shoulder to look. It's all about velo.
I feel another issue is a generation of pitchers who grew up playing year round and being taught to throw breaking balls before puberty. Bodies aren’t meant to pitch year round.
Absolutely. It’s a combination. Throw hard and throw all year. MLB season is too long as it is. But this goes down the ladder where players are gaming 24/7 at this point between high school and college or the international leagues. The season is over for one team then you go play for another. Wearing people out But it’s also coaches and influences teaching these young people throwing hard and a tommy john is nothing these days makes for very worn out arms.
My nephew is 9 and has been playing baseball 9+ months a year for the past two years. It goes all the way down to the little leagues at this point.
> MLB season is too long as it is. Hush.
And everything is max effort. people have played year round baseball for a long time but the emphasis wasn't always on huge velo and break every pitch.
Bodies aren't meant to pitch at all. It's such an unnatural motion that destroys the arm
I wonder if we will ever see a shift in pitching to go from as hard as possible to 95 max, more control.
So basically Greg Maddux? They don’t make many of those.
They didn’t make many back then, and with velo increases across the sport, likely won’t emphasize the pinpoint control that accompanies extremely successful lower-velocity pitchers. Plus, you cannot rightfully set a “speed limit” won’t work without a penalty, and definitely won’t work *with* a penalty.
Not unless Statcast stops hating sinkerballers and control guys
Just look at Shane Beiber. He has probably the best control of all modern pitchers and a change of 1-2 mph on his fastball is the difference between being a CY Young candidate and being average, but his elbow also doesn't seem to last very long at the CY Young candidate level.
Nah. No reason to really
Self serving statement.
It’s not just the max velocity, it’s specifically training to maximize spin rates too. So yes, it’s the brute force of throwing hard, but it’s also the violent force of trying to spin breaking balls faster and faster as well.
It's all of it.
Has any teams tried a 6 man rotation for a whole season? MLB could just allow teams to carry one more pitcher on the roster.
Actually Manfred is wanting to remove a pitcher allowed from the roster to force starters to stay in longer.
High velo Lower pitching mount Pitch clock I think these are factors.
What about the abundance of pitcher injuries and TJ surgeries before the pitch clock? This is a bullshit excuse. Teach pitchers to pitch instead of just throwing gas out there.
Almost a non factor. This statement is counterproductive.
15-12 years ago I was working as an outpatient therapist. I had several kids with elbow pain and forearm tightness. All of them played year round ball (and no other sports), pitching multiple times a week and playing most innings on the field when not pitching. This isn't because of the pitch clock. These are repetitive trauma injuries and will continue with increasing regularity as long as baseball emphasizes hard throwing. Hell my 7 year old will switch to kid pitch next year and I'm terrified because a kid who can throw 60mph but has absolutely no control is going to be throwing. But it's what is being told matters, even to the kids now. Throw hard.