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Thank you, b/c the pain of being a wallflower is heavy and she reminds me of myself when I was in high school. No one’s favorite friend, never the best at anything, and content to read everything I could get my hands on (definitely not like that anymore, thank god).
She’s a nobody who just, once, wants someone to acknowledge that she’s special in her own way. I think she needs a good dose of consequences, which maybe will be her losing Eloise’s friendship? My favorite part in her book is when she insists on sitting in the second row of the Smythe-Smith concert so at least the girls performing have someone smiling and applauding their efforts. And if one knows they aren’t good, then Whistledown doesn’t say anything negative.
Also, Portia really did a number on all her daughters. Good lord. I can’t decide who’s worse off.
>No one’s favorite friend, never the best at anything, and content to read everything I could get my hands on (definitely not like that anymore, thank god).
Dear diary,
Today I learnt there was another me in this world.
I was also a wallflower in high school and struggled through it, so is easy to relate to her actions. Yeah, they’re really messed up, but somehow she was moved by that unnerving desperation of feeling important.
Also this comment just triggered me to go and read the books already.
I bought the first four books immediately after watching season 2 and I am so glad I did. As another former wallflower type I relate to Penelope so much. Her book (4) is so far one of my faves, I love how the relationship with Colin develops and how he actually starts to see her.
The fact that people have such strong feelings for Penelope, whether they love her or they hate her, proves that people are invested in her, even if they can't admit it. In my opinion, that's good writing.
The only thing I'm concerned about is that this feels like a four season arc, but there are rumors that Pen and Colin are the focus for season 3. If that's the case, I worry that the show doesn't have time to give Penelope the full arc she deserves without it feeling forced or rushed.
I’ve seen that rumor, since that Colin/Penelope scene was supposed to be further on during season 3. But honestly I think they will dial down a bit with her and kind of make her lash out more you know? Like the fact that she is hurt by what Colin said and no longer had Eloise by her side will make her a more bitter person, and a more cutthroat LW. They’ll probably set her up for a sort of “redemption arc” in season 4.
Yup. Imo in s3 Penelope will withdraw from Colin and Eloise, start acting more more like her LW self and no longer people pleasing. At first she may go a bit too far-she really has nothing to lose after s2--and redeem herself afterwards. She will hopefully realize that writing things as LW is not as fulfilling as saying what she truly thinks as her own self. Colin will miss Pen after she withdraws from him. He will eventually see her true self and find that attractive.
I also hope Pen will change the direction of her writing so she can contribute more than catty gossip.
I think that’s exactly what they’re going to do. Especially since it was Eloise who even made Penelope think about doing something actually meaningful with her writing instead of just spreading gossip, so without her she’ll probably become way worse in that aspect. Also the Colin thing, so true. He will finally stop taking her for granted.
To be honest I actually like her from a character standpoint. And when I say this she has movement and growth. But I think it is because it seems that the she is a “favorite” of the writers? I mean it is easy to have character growth if you have more screentime. Her last scene when she finally embraces that she is Whistledown was kind of empowering for her.
I understand people not liking her because of her actions but to me she really has a strong arc because it can go anywhere.
I agree. But I actually think her screentime will probably go down in season 3. In fact, if I were to guess, they will probably make her lash out and be more ruthless through out the season as to set her up for a “redemption” arc in season 4.
The thing I don’t get is Eloise brought a lot of her hardship on herself. If she hadn’t left her brother’s wedding then she wouldn’t have been seen and accused of being LW.
Pen writing that to save Eloise from the Queen, wasn’t gossip. It was fact. Unfortunately Eloise’s actions had ramifications that she didn’t want to deal with so made Pen the bad guy for exposing her.
I guess it rubs me the wrong way because Pen time and again told Eloise not to go there but she did what she wanted.
Yes! She doesn’t accept the fact that she made plenty of mistakes and put herself in that position.
It was shitty of Penelope to expose her. It’s not something a friend would actually do, especially since I think that a bit of the reason she went through with it is because she was angry that Eloise might take the credit for her writing (since Eloise already has all the attention she needs). I mean, it would have been better for their friendship if Penelope had simply come clean and changed her writing to what the Queen wanted, so no one would be hurt. But their relationship is really flawed.
Eloise is the most self-absorbed character in the show, and even if I do understand why it’s so hard for her to fit in, the fact she thinks she knows best all the time is so annoying. Also, she never paid attention to Penelope at all, cause when she finally did, she realized who Pen was. They were both wrong, period.
It's worth mentioning she didin't expose her visiting Theo - she exposed Eloise for being 'radical' and going to the womens rights meetings - something which alignes very much with how she wants too be seen by the Ton. (lets just not mention how Eloise just up and dumps her ladies maid in the shady part of town with no warning so she can do that).
Right. I don’t think Pen had originally thought to write about what Eloise was doing, but during the interaction before Eloise dismissed her and you could tell it pissed Pen off. I think the other characters push Pen to her limits a lot and she keeps trying to be nice then breaks because she’s so marginalized she lashes out through Whistledown.
> she never *paid* attention to
FTFY.
Although *payed* exists (the reason why autocorrection didn't help you), it is only correct in:
* Nautical context, when it means to paint a surface, or to cover with something like tar or resin in order to make it waterproof or corrosion-resistant. *The deck is yet to be payed.*
* *Payed out* when letting strings, cables or ropes out, by slacking them. *The rope is payed out! You can pull now.*
Unfortunately, I was unable to find nautical or rope-related words in your comment.
*Beep, boop, I'm a bot*
Plus she avoided writing about Eloise until it was the only way to make the Queen realize that Eloise was not LW. Also, she wrote about Marina’s pregnancy to save Colin, the man she loves, from entering into a sham marriage. Those actions could be considered manipulative, but it was the only way she believed she had power to save the two people she cares about most. No one listens to her when she says things in person, but everyone listens to LW.
People want Pen to face consequences but don't think Eloise or Marina should face consequences.
I'm not sure why but that's the gist I've gotten from those that don't like Pen/LW.
She’s my favorite in the books/show too. There is definitely some bias there, but we are all biased towards some characters and anti anything else another character does.
Penelope can be spiteful, but all the characters have bad traits. Anthony is pretty sexist, Kate is controlling over her sister, Colin is pretty careless, Elouise is self-absorbed, Violet is obsessed with her kids having some magical love match that she had and isn’t really one for sitting down and explaining things, like sex to Daphne.
Like all the characters can be shitty people. We just choose the ones we empathize with more and which ones we are against.
It’s also a soap opera, so everything is dialed up.
Exactly! I think her background is so captivating, it was truly beautifully written. She and Anthony actually are two of the best ones so far, cause all their actions absolutely make sense if you just stop to pay attention to their motives. They’re shitty actions, but also makes them that much more humane.
I feel like people who hate Penelope have never truly been in that position of being unseen, an outcast, looking from outside in. Eloise is a rebel but she has the support of her family who are loving. Penelope is truly lonely. How do people justify Daphnes non con scenes but not try to emphathize with Penelope ? I also have a feeling people like to hate on her because she is not as conventionally pretty as the other characters. The pretty bias is strong imo.
I absolutely agree with everything you’re saying. Cause truth is Eloise even had a chance of being the seasons diamond (even thought it’s the last thing she wants). Society sees her, that’s why her LW takedown was a scandal. Penelope was invisible to even her mother and her closest friend. Also the bias is ridiculous, fact.
First of all, there aren't any "excuses" for either Daphne or Penelope's actions. Martial rape is always wrong and so is manipulating, gaslighting and socially isolating your friend, outing your cousin's secret pregnancy. They can't and shouldn't be compared. I personally don't like how the show still seems to whitewash both characters. I originally thought Penelope was a promising character, as she started out as a sympathetic and insightful loner, but the lack of reflection, regarding the impact of her actions as Whistledown, her increasingly manipulative tendencies and her lack of a backbone when it comes to Colin, especially after season one, was disappointing to me personally. It seemed a bit cliche for the writers to pursue this path (of likable loner becomes manipulative but don't you want to feel sympathy cause she was lonely and she's being rejected by her love interest - oh look she's so smart), instead of having this character gain more self-confidence and respect and having the character confront their friend about issues in their friendship in a healthy way and also slowly realize that maybe exposing the secrets of people who are mostly innocent and probably naive or are trying to just survive may not be the best way of going about things (doesn't mean the entire thing has to stop but after seeing how marina was treated following her article maybe Penelope could have started to shift in the way she reported on matters, becoming a little more careful at the very least) and finally developing more backbone in regards to Colin to make the dynamic more balanced.
I like Penelope. I think there’s a clear line between the grown ups (the moms), the young adults ( daphne / Anthony ), and the teens. Penelope/ Eloise / Colin are supposed to be annoying young people who think they know everything. I think the later seasons will see them mature and transition into being more mature like daphne /Anthony. Penelope and the other younger characters will most likely be in all seasons so they have more time for individual plots. I’m excited to see what the end game is for Penelopes character.
I just wanted to say that by far I don’t think Anthony and Daphne were that mature. They matured throughout their individual seasons, for sure. I think that’s pretty much the point of every season. I don’t know if you’ve read the books but if they keep going based on them, Pen will be the focus of season 4 along with Colin. That’s when I think we’ll see both of them kind of “grow up”. Eloise is supposed to be the focus of season 5, which I think makes sense cause from the three of them she’s the one that seems most self-absorbed (with that “arrogance” of hers to assume she knows best), which means she will take longer to realize she needs to mature. It was really beautiful to see daphne and anthony’s transformations into adults that know themselves, and I only hope they can do the same for the younger ones.
Also if marina had gotten away with not telling Colin and he would have found out and been heartbroken we all would have had our knives out for her. What marina did was not okay and pen tried to warn him without being whistledown first
She is my favorite character too. It’s a bit of a devils advocate because to be fair, she never made anyone do anything. Most of those awful deeds people have done they did it themselves. If it weren’t for Penelope then Daphne would be stuck in an awful marriage. Collin would be married to a woman who has a child which isn’t his. It is violating a persons privacy to have some secrecy, but she in her own twisted way is holding the elite accountable.
If people don’t like what is written then they simply must look at themselves first. She did write it, but everyone thought it first. I love how complex she is. She is very soft and naive in her love for Collin while having the perception of someone with way more life experience.
Eloise really annoys me because she doesn’t appreciate her own privilege. She wants things better for her while disregarding other women. She really gives me “pick me” vibes. She didn’t think for a second the damage she would do to her family, and instead of taking responsibility she blames frankly her only friend.
Eloise is bold because of her station in life.
It's easy to be a rebel when you lead a life of leisure. She's never had to work a day in her life. She's also surrounded by a loving family AND is considered conventionally attractive...plenty of male suitors for when she chooses to marry.
The writing makes it seem like Pen betrayed El but really El didn't value Pen as a friend. She didn't see her at all.
I honestly don't get the hate.
Like, we legit see others act and behave all season, yet people hating on her?
Her family truly no help to her or hell, they ain't even nice to her, at all. I can't even name one time they were nice to her.
And everyone else cast her aside at any chance they get.
And most of Pen intentions were good, like exposing Marina secret. Not gonna lie, I don't feel that terrible about, because Marina may destroy bridgerton reputation. And she was going hurt someone she cared about aka Colin.
I like the character, I can empathy eith her, and she deserves better.
Someone said on this comment section that most people that give her hate have never been in that position, and I totally agree with it. Everyone in the show does bad things, but Penelope is the only one who never had any support whatsoever. She’s completely alone. Also, the bias towards Hollywood actresses that don’t fit the “traditional” body type is huge, you can see they usually end up playing self-deprecating parts in name of “humor”.
I prefer the Featherington's overall. They seem to be more fleshed out as people than the Bridgerton's. I love Portia's scenes and the way she loves.
Penelope, while I don't like her, she is still more of a full fledged person than most of the characters on the show. I hate the relationship between her and Eloise (I also cannot stand Eloise). Eloise never sees her. They are not friends. They don't talk to each other like real friends would. Even Simon and Anthony had more real conversations than Eloise and Penelope do. So I understand why Penelope is the way she is. No one sees her.
I completely agree with you.
Portia totally stole the scene at the finale in my opinion. She’s so entertaining.
While Penelope is not at all being that great of a person, her character is really well constructed. To be honest, Eloise just comes off as a brat most of the time, she’s so self absorbed.
Yes! Exactly! This is exactly how I feel. No one I know who watches the show agrees!
I don't personally always like Penelope but she is the show's strongest character. I think her mother is as well. I also really liked when Portia went up to Lady Bridgerton after the scandal was hurting her family and still spoke to her as she had been in the same position last year. It was a bit snooty but overall really liked that scene. I love the Featherington's as characters and think Portia tries very hard to be such a good mother for the most part though with room for improvement especially with Penelope.
I am very interested in how they are going to handle Penelope's season.
>what she told Eloise was absolutely true: at least she was doing something
I mean, sure, she's doing something...but its not a nice thing at all. As she just found out when she eavesdropped on Colin speaking with the other gentlemen. It's not so nice to be on the receiving end of unflattering gossip, is it?
Penelope's last word during her fight with Eloise was....not qt at all. I appreciate you admitting that you are biased to a degree because I personally cannot fathom how people saw that fight and then took Pen's side on things.
Penelope has *always* been jealous of Eloise / the Bridgerton's: She went after Daphne in S1 and then told Eloise bitterly, "not everyone can be a beautiful Bridgerton."
With her comment about "doing something," she turns around, needing the last word, and deflects well-deserved anger by claiming that Eloise is jealous of her? Clear projection and re-direction of blame. And let's not even start with her use of gaslighting...I wouldn't call Penelope a good friend here at all. Not by a long shot.
It's pretty clear she's using LW as a way of feeling superior over others and its not healthy. At all. In that sense, she's interesting for sure, but not likeable at all.
You have some very good points, really. To be honest I really think she is emotionally immature. She doesn’t know how to deal with the fact that LW is so important and big, yet she still sits on the edge of things.
Also, I agree with the jealousy and the fact that we should not take her side in the discussion with Eloise. I think that even though in her mind she justified what she did by saying she was “only protecting her”, at some level she was angry that Eloise got the credit for all her work and that was a way she lashed out.
All I meant to say is that I much prefer a character that goes about and does a big ugly mess than if she just simply sat back and let the world cast her aside.
The only thing Penelope needs right now is being forced to face the consequences of her acts.
Oh yeah, I agree with you. She is emotionally immature. I believe that she tries to find ways of justifying the very unsavoury, harmful things that she does as LW to a degree where it comes off as patronizing (i.e. "I did it for your own good" or "it would have been worse" and "I was saving you") when in reality there's also a strong undercurrent of her prioritizing the protection her own self-interests at the cost of others.
The thing that gets me is she kind of is sitting back though? She's writing under a pseudo name to spread gossip about people. She's creating a big mess but she's not feeling any of the real-life social negative impacts of it. Its comparable to anonymous shit-talk on the internet and she's going to learn very quickly that it isn't "great" -- as she puts it. When its revealed to be her, are people going to think that she's great? No.
This is a problem the writers created. They want Pen to be sympathetic, but they also wanted to make LW into this gossip girl figure to weaponize and create drama and that its making it difficult for *some* audiences to see her as a romantic hero worth rooting for. She's still very young, and I do understand that there is an appeal to her character. I think there's still a chance to redeem her.
To be honest, I think that’s going to be exactly their angle for season 3. They’re gonna make people see the worst side of Penelope as of yet, cause she’s hurt and is going to want to hurt people in return. I haven’t read her book yet, but apparently people like her a lot after reading it so maybe they’ll set her up for a “redemption arc” in season 4.
In the books one of Colin's big concerns for not letting people know who LW was, was exactly because she had offended people who had the power to hurt her once they would know who she was.
Oh yeah, she is entertaining for sure, and makes for great drama. But would I agree with all the people I’ve seen saying she’s a nice person and did nothing wrong? Not at all lol
Eloise pretty much admitted that she never actually listened to Pen. She and Colin use Pen as basically a cheerleader and never ask her about how she's doing or what's going on with her. Eloise is even worse than Colin imo bc she claims to be Pen's bff. The second Eloise paid Pen real attention, she realized Pen's secret. I honestly think that's pretty sad.
I'm not saying Pen is entirely right, but Eloise isn't a good friend and she doesn't recognize how privileged she is. She needed to hear what Pen told her. And Eloise going through Pen's stuff was not okay.
I disagree that Pen gaslit her. She lied to her, yes, but she didn't make Eloise think she was losing her mind.
It is really sad! Cause people just really took her for granted, and did her wrong, so her reaction was sort of “well you hurt me, I’ll hurt you back”. It’s such an unhealthy defense mechanism.
In the end, Penelope and Eloise were fated to have a confrontation. They both needed to hear what the other said. It’s hard, and it’s painful, but they were both being terrible friends and it couldn’t go on that way.
Also, I think Penelope is going to have a huge personality change in season 3, and I would even guess to say that that’ll be exactly what makes Colin finally realize his feelings, cause she won’t be there for him anymore.
Yes! Eloise talked to Theo a few times but she doesn’t really know what she’d give up to be with him. She’s so sheltered and privileged. I don’t think it was gaslighting that Pen told her to stay away. Yes, it would be to her advantage, but also to Eloise. I was livid that El destroyed Pen’s room and had the audacity to be angry with her for keeping a secret.
Yup this. Agree completely. And the fact that after Eloise expressed how hurt she was all Penelope said was but do you know how hard it was for me to keep this from you?? Like, how can you listen to your best friend saying how much your actions hurt her and have the nerve to say but it was really hard for me too! When really she was having the time of her life making money by exposing everyone’s secrets.
Their relationship is so flawed. Eloise is really self-absorbed and Penelope is obviously jealous of her. Like it only took Eloise actually paying attention to what Pen said for her to realize she is LW. But that doesn’t even come near the kind of damage Penelope did to their friendship. She’s selfish, and unwilling to take the blame for her actions. She does anything to avoid the consequences. Honestly, she’s in real need of a reality check. I see all of that for sure, but that’s what makes her such an interesting character, all the fronts she puts up to hide that fact that she’s just really insecure. I only hope the writers can show her growing and learning after losing her best friend and having her heart broken.
I was glad to see their confrontation, because in the books it never happened. Eloise was literally the last to know, which was a bit funny, but by the time she saw Pen again so much time had passed, and she once again had her own issues to focus on, it was just kind of glossed over.
At least from this they can grow.
She is but her pinning for Colin is so annoying this seasons. I want her to be happy :'( He doesn't deserve her. When their story comes, they better have him grovel! And she better have another love interest. We need more jealousy :d
I felt so bad for her, cause after the conversation with Marina is so obvious that Colin realized what she felt, and he really gave her so many false hopes. It just comes off as him toying with her emotions.
IKR?! UGH I wish she would end up with someone else but we all know he's the ML so we just gotta hope for the best. Hopefully, the writers will make their season the ultimate and greatest groveling love romance of all time.
I do love a slow burn… The only thing that I hope they don’t make a thing in the series is all the weight she loses in the books, it’s just so problematic.
It’s crazy that this wouldn’t have been an unpopular opinion before s2 drop, even less before s1. For how much the writers/ show runners like Pen/ Colin, they are kinda ruining them with their writing
Am I the only one who can’t stand the B’s. They all are self-centered and arrogant. I hate Colin for being two faced 1) towards pen 2) towards the rest of society. Meanwhile I love Pen and her Mom. It’s shows where Pen got her character and why she is so witty.
I really think Eloise should reflect upon herself. What pen said in the adaption about how she actually changes something, hit the nail. Eloise just talks and thinks she is somehow above everyone else and a smart ass too. If she would have listen to her friend Pen, she knew in what mess she got herself in. ALSO BIG NO NO TO SEARCH SOMEBODYS ROOM. this violation of pens privacy is a big red flag.
I understand her little underdog arc getting sympathy from other wallflowers, but I just couldn’t help hating her throughout the show. There’s nothing wrong with being a wallflower, but she so obviously feels sorry for herself and decided to just project it upon everything and everyone around her. Like some incel who decides becoming a school shooter is better than not being noticed by anyone at all. Hands down the most annoying character of the show.
(i’m still on season 1). penelope’s far from the worst person in the world, but what she did to marina was unforgivable. she could’ve told colin marina was pregnant, but putting it in whistledon was a snaky move. it made me doubt the purity of her character
I love Penelope. I don't even think she was that cruel. She was always honest and truthful, those people just couldn't hear the truth.
How can nobody see that she is sassy, witty and (at least in writing) doesn't take anybody's shit.
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I don’t understand the hate for flawed and imperfect characters. How boring would the show be if everyone was sunshine and rainbows.
Exactly! Yeah, she makes a lot of mistakes, but it’s not like most characters in the show have been all that great.
Thank you, b/c the pain of being a wallflower is heavy and she reminds me of myself when I was in high school. No one’s favorite friend, never the best at anything, and content to read everything I could get my hands on (definitely not like that anymore, thank god). She’s a nobody who just, once, wants someone to acknowledge that she’s special in her own way. I think she needs a good dose of consequences, which maybe will be her losing Eloise’s friendship? My favorite part in her book is when she insists on sitting in the second row of the Smythe-Smith concert so at least the girls performing have someone smiling and applauding their efforts. And if one knows they aren’t good, then Whistledown doesn’t say anything negative. Also, Portia really did a number on all her daughters. Good lord. I can’t decide who’s worse off.
>No one’s favorite friend, never the best at anything, and content to read everything I could get my hands on (definitely not like that anymore, thank god). Dear diary, Today I learnt there was another me in this world.
I am also another me.
I was also a wallflower in high school and struggled through it, so is easy to relate to her actions. Yeah, they’re really messed up, but somehow she was moved by that unnerving desperation of feeling important. Also this comment just triggered me to go and read the books already.
I bought the first four books immediately after watching season 2 and I am so glad I did. As another former wallflower type I relate to Penelope so much. Her book (4) is so far one of my faves, I love how the relationship with Colin develops and how he actually starts to see her.
The fact that people have such strong feelings for Penelope, whether they love her or they hate her, proves that people are invested in her, even if they can't admit it. In my opinion, that's good writing.
Exactly! Her whole story arc is so well written.
The only thing I'm concerned about is that this feels like a four season arc, but there are rumors that Pen and Colin are the focus for season 3. If that's the case, I worry that the show doesn't have time to give Penelope the full arc she deserves without it feeling forced or rushed.
I’ve seen that rumor, since that Colin/Penelope scene was supposed to be further on during season 3. But honestly I think they will dial down a bit with her and kind of make her lash out more you know? Like the fact that she is hurt by what Colin said and no longer had Eloise by her side will make her a more bitter person, and a more cutthroat LW. They’ll probably set her up for a sort of “redemption arc” in season 4.
Yup. Imo in s3 Penelope will withdraw from Colin and Eloise, start acting more more like her LW self and no longer people pleasing. At first she may go a bit too far-she really has nothing to lose after s2--and redeem herself afterwards. She will hopefully realize that writing things as LW is not as fulfilling as saying what she truly thinks as her own self. Colin will miss Pen after she withdraws from him. He will eventually see her true self and find that attractive. I also hope Pen will change the direction of her writing so she can contribute more than catty gossip.
I think that’s exactly what they’re going to do. Especially since it was Eloise who even made Penelope think about doing something actually meaningful with her writing instead of just spreading gossip, so without her she’ll probably become way worse in that aspect. Also the Colin thing, so true. He will finally stop taking her for granted.
To be honest I actually like her from a character standpoint. And when I say this she has movement and growth. But I think it is because it seems that the she is a “favorite” of the writers? I mean it is easy to have character growth if you have more screentime. Her last scene when she finally embraces that she is Whistledown was kind of empowering for her. I understand people not liking her because of her actions but to me she really has a strong arc because it can go anywhere.
I agree. But I actually think her screentime will probably go down in season 3. In fact, if I were to guess, they will probably make her lash out and be more ruthless through out the season as to set her up for a “redemption” arc in season 4.
The thing I don’t get is Eloise brought a lot of her hardship on herself. If she hadn’t left her brother’s wedding then she wouldn’t have been seen and accused of being LW. Pen writing that to save Eloise from the Queen, wasn’t gossip. It was fact. Unfortunately Eloise’s actions had ramifications that she didn’t want to deal with so made Pen the bad guy for exposing her. I guess it rubs me the wrong way because Pen time and again told Eloise not to go there but she did what she wanted.
Yes! She doesn’t accept the fact that she made plenty of mistakes and put herself in that position. It was shitty of Penelope to expose her. It’s not something a friend would actually do, especially since I think that a bit of the reason she went through with it is because she was angry that Eloise might take the credit for her writing (since Eloise already has all the attention she needs). I mean, it would have been better for their friendship if Penelope had simply come clean and changed her writing to what the Queen wanted, so no one would be hurt. But their relationship is really flawed. Eloise is the most self-absorbed character in the show, and even if I do understand why it’s so hard for her to fit in, the fact she thinks she knows best all the time is so annoying. Also, she never paid attention to Penelope at all, cause when she finally did, she realized who Pen was. They were both wrong, period.
It's worth mentioning she didin't expose her visiting Theo - she exposed Eloise for being 'radical' and going to the womens rights meetings - something which alignes very much with how she wants too be seen by the Ton. (lets just not mention how Eloise just up and dumps her ladies maid in the shady part of town with no warning so she can do that).
She put herself in that position for sure, anyone could have seen her or even her maid could have gossiped about it.
Right. I don’t think Pen had originally thought to write about what Eloise was doing, but during the interaction before Eloise dismissed her and you could tell it pissed Pen off. I think the other characters push Pen to her limits a lot and she keeps trying to be nice then breaks because she’s so marginalized she lashes out through Whistledown.
> she never *paid* attention to FTFY. Although *payed* exists (the reason why autocorrection didn't help you), it is only correct in: * Nautical context, when it means to paint a surface, or to cover with something like tar or resin in order to make it waterproof or corrosion-resistant. *The deck is yet to be payed.* * *Payed out* when letting strings, cables or ropes out, by slacking them. *The rope is payed out! You can pull now.* Unfortunately, I was unable to find nautical or rope-related words in your comment. *Beep, boop, I'm a bot*
Plus she avoided writing about Eloise until it was the only way to make the Queen realize that Eloise was not LW. Also, she wrote about Marina’s pregnancy to save Colin, the man she loves, from entering into a sham marriage. Those actions could be considered manipulative, but it was the only way she believed she had power to save the two people she cares about most. No one listens to her when she says things in person, but everyone listens to LW.
People want Pen to face consequences but don't think Eloise or Marina should face consequences. I'm not sure why but that's the gist I've gotten from those that don't like Pen/LW.
She’s my favorite in the books/show too. There is definitely some bias there, but we are all biased towards some characters and anti anything else another character does. Penelope can be spiteful, but all the characters have bad traits. Anthony is pretty sexist, Kate is controlling over her sister, Colin is pretty careless, Elouise is self-absorbed, Violet is obsessed with her kids having some magical love match that she had and isn’t really one for sitting down and explaining things, like sex to Daphne. Like all the characters can be shitty people. We just choose the ones we empathize with more and which ones we are against. It’s also a soap opera, so everything is dialed up.
Exactly! I think her background is so captivating, it was truly beautifully written. She and Anthony actually are two of the best ones so far, cause all their actions absolutely make sense if you just stop to pay attention to their motives. They’re shitty actions, but also makes them that much more humane.
I feel like people who hate Penelope have never truly been in that position of being unseen, an outcast, looking from outside in. Eloise is a rebel but she has the support of her family who are loving. Penelope is truly lonely. How do people justify Daphnes non con scenes but not try to emphathize with Penelope ? I also have a feeling people like to hate on her because she is not as conventionally pretty as the other characters. The pretty bias is strong imo.
I absolutely agree with everything you’re saying. Cause truth is Eloise even had a chance of being the seasons diamond (even thought it’s the last thing she wants). Society sees her, that’s why her LW takedown was a scandal. Penelope was invisible to even her mother and her closest friend. Also the bias is ridiculous, fact.
First of all, there aren't any "excuses" for either Daphne or Penelope's actions. Martial rape is always wrong and so is manipulating, gaslighting and socially isolating your friend, outing your cousin's secret pregnancy. They can't and shouldn't be compared. I personally don't like how the show still seems to whitewash both characters. I originally thought Penelope was a promising character, as she started out as a sympathetic and insightful loner, but the lack of reflection, regarding the impact of her actions as Whistledown, her increasingly manipulative tendencies and her lack of a backbone when it comes to Colin, especially after season one, was disappointing to me personally. It seemed a bit cliche for the writers to pursue this path (of likable loner becomes manipulative but don't you want to feel sympathy cause she was lonely and she's being rejected by her love interest - oh look she's so smart), instead of having this character gain more self-confidence and respect and having the character confront their friend about issues in their friendship in a healthy way and also slowly realize that maybe exposing the secrets of people who are mostly innocent and probably naive or are trying to just survive may not be the best way of going about things (doesn't mean the entire thing has to stop but after seeing how marina was treated following her article maybe Penelope could have started to shift in the way she reported on matters, becoming a little more careful at the very least) and finally developing more backbone in regards to Colin to make the dynamic more balanced.
I like Penelope. I think there’s a clear line between the grown ups (the moms), the young adults ( daphne / Anthony ), and the teens. Penelope/ Eloise / Colin are supposed to be annoying young people who think they know everything. I think the later seasons will see them mature and transition into being more mature like daphne /Anthony. Penelope and the other younger characters will most likely be in all seasons so they have more time for individual plots. I’m excited to see what the end game is for Penelopes character.
I just wanted to say that by far I don’t think Anthony and Daphne were that mature. They matured throughout their individual seasons, for sure. I think that’s pretty much the point of every season. I don’t know if you’ve read the books but if they keep going based on them, Pen will be the focus of season 4 along with Colin. That’s when I think we’ll see both of them kind of “grow up”. Eloise is supposed to be the focus of season 5, which I think makes sense cause from the three of them she’s the one that seems most self-absorbed (with that “arrogance” of hers to assume she knows best), which means she will take longer to realize she needs to mature. It was really beautiful to see daphne and anthony’s transformations into adults that know themselves, and I only hope they can do the same for the younger ones.
I thought Penelope debuted before or with Daphne, so she was the same age or older.
Also if marina had gotten away with not telling Colin and he would have found out and been heartbroken we all would have had our knives out for her. What marina did was not okay and pen tried to warn him without being whistledown first
Exactly! She only involved Whistledown when she was sure he was going to marry her no matter what she said.
I LOVE her. LOVE HER. She is a brilliant character.
She is my favorite character too. It’s a bit of a devils advocate because to be fair, she never made anyone do anything. Most of those awful deeds people have done they did it themselves. If it weren’t for Penelope then Daphne would be stuck in an awful marriage. Collin would be married to a woman who has a child which isn’t his. It is violating a persons privacy to have some secrecy, but she in her own twisted way is holding the elite accountable. If people don’t like what is written then they simply must look at themselves first. She did write it, but everyone thought it first. I love how complex she is. She is very soft and naive in her love for Collin while having the perception of someone with way more life experience. Eloise really annoys me because she doesn’t appreciate her own privilege. She wants things better for her while disregarding other women. She really gives me “pick me” vibes. She didn’t think for a second the damage she would do to her family, and instead of taking responsibility she blames frankly her only friend.
Eloise is bold because of her station in life. It's easy to be a rebel when you lead a life of leisure. She's never had to work a day in her life. She's also surrounded by a loving family AND is considered conventionally attractive...plenty of male suitors for when she chooses to marry. The writing makes it seem like Pen betrayed El but really El didn't value Pen as a friend. She didn't see her at all.
I think Nic does a **really really really** good job of portraying her. Was blown away by her acting in s2.
Same, Polly is such a great actress too as Portia.
Agreed. Love her.
I honestly don't get the hate. Like, we legit see others act and behave all season, yet people hating on her? Her family truly no help to her or hell, they ain't even nice to her, at all. I can't even name one time they were nice to her. And everyone else cast her aside at any chance they get. And most of Pen intentions were good, like exposing Marina secret. Not gonna lie, I don't feel that terrible about, because Marina may destroy bridgerton reputation. And she was going hurt someone she cared about aka Colin. I like the character, I can empathy eith her, and she deserves better.
Someone said on this comment section that most people that give her hate have never been in that position, and I totally agree with it. Everyone in the show does bad things, but Penelope is the only one who never had any support whatsoever. She’s completely alone. Also, the bias towards Hollywood actresses that don’t fit the “traditional” body type is huge, you can see they usually end up playing self-deprecating parts in name of “humor”.
I agree, she is probably my favorite female character in the show (I have only read the first two books).
I prefer the Featherington's overall. They seem to be more fleshed out as people than the Bridgerton's. I love Portia's scenes and the way she loves. Penelope, while I don't like her, she is still more of a full fledged person than most of the characters on the show. I hate the relationship between her and Eloise (I also cannot stand Eloise). Eloise never sees her. They are not friends. They don't talk to each other like real friends would. Even Simon and Anthony had more real conversations than Eloise and Penelope do. So I understand why Penelope is the way she is. No one sees her. I completely agree with you.
Portia totally stole the scene at the finale in my opinion. She’s so entertaining. While Penelope is not at all being that great of a person, her character is really well constructed. To be honest, Eloise just comes off as a brat most of the time, she’s so self absorbed.
Yes! Exactly! This is exactly how I feel. No one I know who watches the show agrees! I don't personally always like Penelope but she is the show's strongest character. I think her mother is as well. I also really liked when Portia went up to Lady Bridgerton after the scandal was hurting her family and still spoke to her as she had been in the same position last year. It was a bit snooty but overall really liked that scene. I love the Featherington's as characters and think Portia tries very hard to be such a good mother for the most part though with room for improvement especially with Penelope. I am very interested in how they are going to handle Penelope's season.
>what she told Eloise was absolutely true: at least she was doing something I mean, sure, she's doing something...but its not a nice thing at all. As she just found out when she eavesdropped on Colin speaking with the other gentlemen. It's not so nice to be on the receiving end of unflattering gossip, is it? Penelope's last word during her fight with Eloise was....not qt at all. I appreciate you admitting that you are biased to a degree because I personally cannot fathom how people saw that fight and then took Pen's side on things. Penelope has *always* been jealous of Eloise / the Bridgerton's: She went after Daphne in S1 and then told Eloise bitterly, "not everyone can be a beautiful Bridgerton." With her comment about "doing something," she turns around, needing the last word, and deflects well-deserved anger by claiming that Eloise is jealous of her? Clear projection and re-direction of blame. And let's not even start with her use of gaslighting...I wouldn't call Penelope a good friend here at all. Not by a long shot. It's pretty clear she's using LW as a way of feeling superior over others and its not healthy. At all. In that sense, she's interesting for sure, but not likeable at all.
You have some very good points, really. To be honest I really think she is emotionally immature. She doesn’t know how to deal with the fact that LW is so important and big, yet she still sits on the edge of things. Also, I agree with the jealousy and the fact that we should not take her side in the discussion with Eloise. I think that even though in her mind she justified what she did by saying she was “only protecting her”, at some level she was angry that Eloise got the credit for all her work and that was a way she lashed out. All I meant to say is that I much prefer a character that goes about and does a big ugly mess than if she just simply sat back and let the world cast her aside. The only thing Penelope needs right now is being forced to face the consequences of her acts.
Oh yeah, I agree with you. She is emotionally immature. I believe that she tries to find ways of justifying the very unsavoury, harmful things that she does as LW to a degree where it comes off as patronizing (i.e. "I did it for your own good" or "it would have been worse" and "I was saving you") when in reality there's also a strong undercurrent of her prioritizing the protection her own self-interests at the cost of others. The thing that gets me is she kind of is sitting back though? She's writing under a pseudo name to spread gossip about people. She's creating a big mess but she's not feeling any of the real-life social negative impacts of it. Its comparable to anonymous shit-talk on the internet and she's going to learn very quickly that it isn't "great" -- as she puts it. When its revealed to be her, are people going to think that she's great? No. This is a problem the writers created. They want Pen to be sympathetic, but they also wanted to make LW into this gossip girl figure to weaponize and create drama and that its making it difficult for *some* audiences to see her as a romantic hero worth rooting for. She's still very young, and I do understand that there is an appeal to her character. I think there's still a chance to redeem her.
To be honest, I think that’s going to be exactly their angle for season 3. They’re gonna make people see the worst side of Penelope as of yet, cause she’s hurt and is going to want to hurt people in return. I haven’t read her book yet, but apparently people like her a lot after reading it so maybe they’ll set her up for a “redemption arc” in season 4.
In the books one of Colin's big concerns for not letting people know who LW was, was exactly because she had offended people who had the power to hurt her once they would know who she was.
Yes to all of this. We have to see a fall before she can rise.
Oh yeah, she is entertaining for sure, and makes for great drama. But would I agree with all the people I’ve seen saying she’s a nice person and did nothing wrong? Not at all lol
Eloise pretty much admitted that she never actually listened to Pen. She and Colin use Pen as basically a cheerleader and never ask her about how she's doing or what's going on with her. Eloise is even worse than Colin imo bc she claims to be Pen's bff. The second Eloise paid Pen real attention, she realized Pen's secret. I honestly think that's pretty sad. I'm not saying Pen is entirely right, but Eloise isn't a good friend and she doesn't recognize how privileged she is. She needed to hear what Pen told her. And Eloise going through Pen's stuff was not okay. I disagree that Pen gaslit her. She lied to her, yes, but she didn't make Eloise think she was losing her mind.
It is really sad! Cause people just really took her for granted, and did her wrong, so her reaction was sort of “well you hurt me, I’ll hurt you back”. It’s such an unhealthy defense mechanism. In the end, Penelope and Eloise were fated to have a confrontation. They both needed to hear what the other said. It’s hard, and it’s painful, but they were both being terrible friends and it couldn’t go on that way. Also, I think Penelope is going to have a huge personality change in season 3, and I would even guess to say that that’ll be exactly what makes Colin finally realize his feelings, cause she won’t be there for him anymore.
Yes! Eloise talked to Theo a few times but she doesn’t really know what she’d give up to be with him. She’s so sheltered and privileged. I don’t think it was gaslighting that Pen told her to stay away. Yes, it would be to her advantage, but also to Eloise. I was livid that El destroyed Pen’s room and had the audacity to be angry with her for keeping a secret.
Yup this. Agree completely. And the fact that after Eloise expressed how hurt she was all Penelope said was but do you know how hard it was for me to keep this from you?? Like, how can you listen to your best friend saying how much your actions hurt her and have the nerve to say but it was really hard for me too! When really she was having the time of her life making money by exposing everyone’s secrets.
Their relationship is so flawed. Eloise is really self-absorbed and Penelope is obviously jealous of her. Like it only took Eloise actually paying attention to what Pen said for her to realize she is LW. But that doesn’t even come near the kind of damage Penelope did to their friendship. She’s selfish, and unwilling to take the blame for her actions. She does anything to avoid the consequences. Honestly, she’s in real need of a reality check. I see all of that for sure, but that’s what makes her such an interesting character, all the fronts she puts up to hide that fact that she’s just really insecure. I only hope the writers can show her growing and learning after losing her best friend and having her heart broken.
I was glad to see their confrontation, because in the books it never happened. Eloise was literally the last to know, which was a bit funny, but by the time she saw Pen again so much time had passed, and she once again had her own issues to focus on, it was just kind of glossed over. At least from this they can grow.
At least one good thing from the adaptation, since it seems people who have read the books didn’t like it much.
I absolutely agree with all of this. She’s still not my favorite character but I do want to keep seeing her story play.
She is but her pinning for Colin is so annoying this seasons. I want her to be happy :'( He doesn't deserve her. When their story comes, they better have him grovel! And she better have another love interest. We need more jealousy :d
I felt so bad for her, cause after the conversation with Marina is so obvious that Colin realized what she felt, and he really gave her so many false hopes. It just comes off as him toying with her emotions.
IKR?! UGH I wish she would end up with someone else but we all know he's the ML so we just gotta hope for the best. Hopefully, the writers will make their season the ultimate and greatest groveling love romance of all time.
I do love a slow burn… The only thing that I hope they don’t make a thing in the series is all the weight she loses in the books, it’s just so problematic.
Unfortunately, it didn't. Pen didn't get her beautiful love story. It was rushed. Defiling in the carriage... And the proposal?...
It’s crazy that this wouldn’t have been an unpopular opinion before s2 drop, even less before s1. For how much the writers/ show runners like Pen/ Colin, they are kinda ruining them with their writing
To be honest I think the only way to truly really like the show is to not have read the books.
Am I the only one who can’t stand the B’s. They all are self-centered and arrogant. I hate Colin for being two faced 1) towards pen 2) towards the rest of society. Meanwhile I love Pen and her Mom. It’s shows where Pen got her character and why she is so witty. I really think Eloise should reflect upon herself. What pen said in the adaption about how she actually changes something, hit the nail. Eloise just talks and thinks she is somehow above everyone else and a smart ass too. If she would have listen to her friend Pen, she knew in what mess she got herself in. ALSO BIG NO NO TO SEARCH SOMEBODYS ROOM. this violation of pens privacy is a big red flag.
I understand her little underdog arc getting sympathy from other wallflowers, but I just couldn’t help hating her throughout the show. There’s nothing wrong with being a wallflower, but she so obviously feels sorry for herself and decided to just project it upon everything and everyone around her. Like some incel who decides becoming a school shooter is better than not being noticed by anyone at all. Hands down the most annoying character of the show.
(i’m still on season 1). penelope’s far from the worst person in the world, but what she did to marina was unforgivable. she could’ve told colin marina was pregnant, but putting it in whistledon was a snaky move. it made me doubt the purity of her character
Two years later and Penelope isn't one of the best characters on the show... SHE is the BEST character on the show period.
I love Penelope. I don't even think she was that cruel. She was always honest and truthful, those people just couldn't hear the truth. How can nobody see that she is sassy, witty and (at least in writing) doesn't take anybody's shit.
Penelope is a lot of us. Women usually don't read/watch romance if their life is full of suitors or are loving and being loved.