I was listening to sinatra’s version of New York New York and it is so iconic and associated with the city. I think toddlers and pensioners would be able to recognise that song. Having that standard in place is the benchmark, they needed to cast somebody who could nail that song and honestly I don’t think they came close with what I heard
There's a pretty good full bootleg of the off-Broadway production on Youtube you can find just by searching "next to normal off-broadway." What's striking for me is that, besides the obvious songlist changes, even the songs that made it to the final version had dozens of lyric tweaks that brought the writing from good to stellar. For example the "what doesn't kill me, doesn't kill me" lyric in Just Another Day wasn't there until the final version. The off-Broadway version was "what doesn't kill me makes me stronger" which isn't a *bad* lyric, it's just mundane and obvious. The change makes it unexpected and immediately tells you what the characters are going through.
Little Shop of Horrors. The 2004 Broadway production felt bloated and soulless. It belongs in a small, intimate space, as I think the current off-Broadway production has proven.
Howard Ashman famously didn’t want the show to ever open on Broadway and blocked attempts to transfer the original production. The 2004 version was proof positive, and its existence almost feels like spitting in his face.
This may be unpopular, but I actually really don’t like the expanded orchestrations on the Broadway cast recording. It just sounds so slick and polished, and I miss the garage band sound of the original score. Also, I like Kerry Butler in a lot of things, but it feels like she was just directed to play Audrey as a ditzy cartoon character, which is a bummer.
Idk, I saw that production and liked it. I was also a teenager at the time and enamored with Kerry Butler, so I think that might have swayed my opinion
i HARD agree here, the show is not broadway material, and that’s what makes it SO GOOD, i do however LOVE the actors in the OBC, they are my favorite cast, and my favorite cast recording. Not a fan of the finale on it, but overall i think it’s the best cast album.
American psycho was pushed onto Broadway instead of an out of town/off Broadway run since they made some big changes from London, it’s a shame bc it was a fun show
The playwright attended the Kokandy production in Chicago and said exactly that. It works better in more intimate settings. And that Kokandy production was absolutely incredible.
Can we add shows that lost something in translation to touring? Because I have a lot of bones to pick with the *Anastasia* team. Cutting out "Crossing a Bridge" and replacing it with a mediocre "Paris Holds the Key" reprise, removing part of "Learn to Do It," and a dozen little tiny changes and dialogue cuts that went in the wrong direction and made absolutely no sense. I'm not saying it was a Tony-worthy masterpiece before - though I have a soft spot for it personally - but all those little cuts and changes just added up to something a little lesser-than.
I was so excited for the DC tour and saw it and left feeling so underwhelmed. I wonder if I’d have liked it more if I had been able to see it on Broadway. I listen to the soundtrack often.
Controversial... but I think the Hartford version of Anastasia was (slightly) more daring and interesting than what went to Broadway. Especially the change of Gleb from a doting, awkward character into a "chucks chins and intimidates women because he's a ~dark romance archetype" character. At least when Ramin played him.
If it makes you feel better, Max Von Essen's Gleb was definitely closer to the adorkable yet morally gray character that it sounds like the Hartford version was.
It does! A lot of Gleb actors are more nuanced than Ramin was; I mean, I can't necessarily blame him for it, it sounds like it's the direction that he was given for the character. But it's so bland compared to Hartford-style Gleb.
I also found Hartford!Gleb more intriguing and messy in a good way, but "Anya" was a dreadful song 😂 "Still" has the *oomph* that a Javert-esque villain song needs, but I definitely disliked them bringing that Phantom-y/dark romance/obsession vibe into it when they cast Ramin.
I watched the slime tutorial on YouTube from I believe it’s previews in Chicago and was obsessed. FINALLY got to see the tour three years after I was supposed to (Covid) and I was… yeah. Disappointed.
Hard agree. "Crossing a Bridge" is one of my favorite songs from that score and hearing that it was cut for the tour just tanked any interest I had in seeing it when it came through my area.
The Lightning Thief lost all of its charm by moving it to Broadway without a substantial upgrade. In a small off-Broadway venue, the low budget aesthetic was charming, but on Broadway it fell completely flat.
Weren't they fairly honest about just taking up a theater that was otherwise going to be empty for months and pricing tickets pretty low? I agree the show wasn't Broadway level without upgrades but I liked it on tour for the $10 I paid. It had a pretty good soundtrack too.
This was my immediate thought. It felt awkwardly swallowed up. They needed to amp up the set design and choreography if they were going to move it to Broadway.
K-pop definitely should've booked another tryout before coming in. They were relying too much on the buzz from the 2017 Ars Nova production, when they needed to build more momentum before coming to Broadway. Similarly, here lies love could've probably benefited from another off-broadway run, but I understand that would be cost prohibitive.
Seeing K-pop in a half full Wednesday matinee like 4 weeks after their opening on an intense edible was one of my best theatre experiences, but only cause the K-pop performers I had followed for years were inches away.
Awkward acting, bad writing, I think the open immersive concept it used to have was the only way that show was gonna work
I had a similar reaction when I saw it (but without the edible, lol). I really enjoyed it and had a great time, but 60% of that may have just been because I was super pumped to see Luna, Kevin, and Min perform live.
The thing with KPOP is, they did. They booked a run at Signature Theatre in Arlington, VA, but they cancelled it due to COVID, and proceeded on the original timeline, without the tryout.
A very famous example is A Funny Thing Happened on the Way to the Forum. Audiences were not connecting with the show out of town. Famed director George Abbot didn’t seem to know how to fix it. Both Joshua Logan and Jerome Robbins were brought in to advise. Robbins convinced Sondheim that “Love Is in the Air” was the wrong number to open such a bawdy comedy. Sondheim wrote “Comedy Tonight” to replace it and the show became a smash hit almost overnight.
This is correct. Jerome Robbins didn’t like “Forget War.” Then he wrote “Love Is In The Air,” which didn’t properly establish the vision of reality of the show and made the audiences expect a romance. When the show was bombing out of town in previews, he went to George Abbott, who told him he needed to write a song like “Forget War” that Jerome Robbins will like. Thus, “Comedy Tonight.”
My two gothic loves: Jekyll and Hyde and Tanz Der Vampire.
Jekyll and Hyde had a superb concept album and touring version that was gutted when it arrived on Broadway.
Tanz Der Vampire (still running to this day in Germany) became a parody when it came to the States and was a defanged shadow of its former self.
I followed Jekyll and Hyde from the concept album on. Someone gave me the concept in High School. The 2 disk version, while good, had a lot of extra in it. The Broadway version tried to make it tighter, and focus on odd things. Like the dead dad thing was leaned into on Broadway with the other male roles all older folk.
I did talk to some stagehands that when the tour came through, pre-Broadway, people laughed when he got killed at the end of the show. It was just so sudden.
It reminds me of my favorite bit in musical theater, from 42nd Street:
>Stop! He’s got my Purse!
>GUNSHOT, (kills the robber) problem solved.
>Let’s tap.
Michael Kunze has now had two massive hits whose English adaptations flopped. It’s unfortunate that Rebecca and Tanz Der Vampire are unknown or only known as failures to most English-speaking audiences.
I love Tanz der Vampire. Can‘t believe how much they destroyed it to make it a „better fit“ for the US, taking away all it‘s charm (and most of my favorite moments)
I'm torn between seeing it or not since I don't speak German and I'm not familiar with the material. Do you think it has such an intricate plot that I wouldn't be able to understand or would I be fine at getting the general of it?
I think you can still follow it vaguely but will be very confused when things like dream sequences happen. Also, a lot of the humour (and nuances) will probably fly over your head if you don't know the language. I recommend watching any English subbed slime tutorial in advance some weeks/days before you go see the show (never the day before to avoid having vivid memory of said slime tutorial), and you'll enjoy it much more than going in blind.
I don’t have a horse in this particular race but I have a *lot* of friends with very strong opinions that the Ars Nova *Great Comet* was leagues better than the Broadway, even before any controversy affected it.
The general consensus seems to be that Great Comet got worse every time it got bigger. It was best in the meatpacking district, and the ART production robbed it of the intimacy that made it so special, and the Broadway run was the culmination of that trend. I think it’s maybe a good thing the long-rumored tour never came to be, because imagining a show that was already swamped in a 1,000-seat Broadway house playing in 2-3,000 seat touring venues…yikes.
Same! I personally don’t think the Broadway version was a failure by any means—it’s one of my favorite theater experiences of all time—but any show that starts out in such an intimate space is bound to get more impersonal as it gets larger.
Great Comet is my favourite musical, I’ve only experienced the Broadway version (via slime tutorials) and I absolutely adore it but I get what you mean. I saw the Watermill Theatre’s production of Lord of the Rings a few months ago and I absolutely adored how the show used the space, which makes me unsure what I want the future of that production to be because, while I want more people to see this production, I feel like it would lose a lot of its magic if it was in a larger space.
I agree! I didn't see any of the off-Broadway productions, but the magnitude of the Imperial is incomparable. I get that the "immersiveness" of a smaller venue may have its appeal for some, but the absolute feat of the balcony-to-orchestra stairs, the snaking ramps, the blinding headlights bordering the doors atop an insane staircase- I could go on. No idea how it could be improved by touring.
Yeah IDK if I would have preferred the small space. I do love the grandness they managed to achieve on Broadway and idk how well that would happen in a small space.
I only ever saw it on Broadway, but I definitely felt that stage seating was the only way to experience it fully. It needs that intimacy for the maximalism to really take effect. If they ever brought it back to New York, it needs the Kazino or bust.
The correct answer will always be Chess, Although the semi staged version at the Kennedy Center a few years ago came the closest to fixing the issues with the book and making it almost viable enough to try Broadway (after a few more refinements) again.
*Pleeeeeeeeeease* just produce it as an extravagant staged concert with cirque-dance bits and immersive cool lighting elements and ensemble with choir experience and sufficient orchestra+band and everyone singing their face off. It's ABBA, goddammit. The plot should be vague oppressive atmosphere like Silent Hill; you *shouldn't* understand it completely. You focus on the plot it collapses from a wave to a particle and becomes *CSPAN on staaaaaaaaage...* More *Tommy/Hair/Superstar* less practical furniture. (I'll stop now!)
I saw it in London in 1989, and it was fantastic. Every production I've seen since has been sad by comparison. There are so many different versions of the book, it just seems to end up a mess...
Moulin Rouge had some interesting changes from Boston to Broadway. They cut a very boring rendition of Shake it Off which was good, but I'm convinced that the longer that show runs, the more boring it gets. A huge part of the charm in Boston was how it felt a little bit chaotic. The venue wasn't huge, the cabaret seating was more intimate, and it felt more genuinely "slapped together" and low budget even though it wasn't. Half the plot of Moulin Rouge is about Bohemian ideals and as the show has run longer, it's gotten slicker and cleaner and lost a little bit of the authenticity it had pre-Broadway. It makes me wonder if a touring production could recapture the haphazard charm and energy of Boston.
I thought Finding Neverland was really good in Cambridge. On Broadway, not so much. Idk who decided to replace Jeremy Jordan with Matthew Morrison but it’s a no from me. Plus, the rewrites of several songs were meh.
If I had a nickel for every time Jeremy Jordan excelled with the early versions of a musical, then got replaced by a less skillful but bigger "name" actor for the final version, I'd have two nickels, which isn't much, but it sucks that it's happened twice.
The Zac Efron character? Apols, I had no idea on that so assumed the other.
So he was originally going to be in the film and then got replaced by Mr Efron?
I get it and makes commercial sense, but gutting for him!
YES! This is always my answer to this question. I adored it at the ART- I saw it twice and cried both times, it was so magical. They managed to take that magic out of it when it went to broadway.
I enjoyed it a LOT at ART. Loved the whole pocket watch opening number bit, and how they used an actor (wonderful Thayne Jasperson) to be porthos instead of a real dog, as a cool call back to the OG Peter Pan. Also Jeremy Jordan was Fantatsic as always.
This! I was already annoyed that they changed the key to Believe because it was perfect before, but what really sent me over the edge was replacing Jeremy Jordan. You do not replace Jeremy Jordan. Jeremy's JM Barrie was so charming and his voice was *chef's kiss*.
The biggest issue for me was the super-cloying use of the kid. But it's never a good sign when Kelsey Grammer is the most watchable person on your show! I will concede that they used a wonderful stage effect to represent the mother's death though.
I maintain its best iteration is the Signature Theatre production, between New Jersey and Broadway. Just enough had been changed to keep it fresh, but it wasn’t as loud and hammy as it would inevitably become. The minute they cut More Than Survive (Reprise) for Sync Up, they lost the plot.
(Also, W*** R***** is terrible casting for Jeremy, and all of his Broadway alternates were so much better in the role it makes it embarrassing to listen to the cast recording.)
([Also also, the West End run is significantly worse than the Broadway run and is only salvaged by putting the cut part of Upgrade back at the end of Loser Geek Whatever.])
The West End version was absolutely insane. The Broadway version had already been severely watered down, but the West End version was so bland I left the theater wondering what I'd just watched. I genuinely don't understand.
Also, are we twins, because I've been saying the same thing about the Upgrade bit being its only saving grace, LOL.
My go-to answer for this: *The Visit*. The book was harmed by John Doyle cutting it down to ninety minutes. The story is a slow-burn thriller. Some stories actually need a slower pace, and *The Visit* is one of them. A lot of interesting material was cut, particular regarding developing the characters in the town. The character of Anton's wife was significantly reduced, and the role of the Mayor's wife was cut altogether, and with them, a lot of the insight into how the town views Claire. Meanwhile, the score was hurt by both an insufficient orchestra (the most recent out-of-town tryout did actually have a slightly larger orchestra), and the cutting of Claire's bodyguards, which meant that the vocal makeup of Claire's whole crew became one bass and three altos, with a stark gap where the middle harmonies should have gone. Vocal arrangements that were written for six people sound hollow when you just take out two of the middle voices.
And cutting Flight of the Blue Fly, which meant they needed to rewrite the closing song too.
I have no idea if it would've done better on Broadway without the changes, but I wouldn't be as bitter about it.
I saw the show in Berkeley with Samantha Banks in a 500ish-seat house, with the entire Paris cramped onto a small-ish stage and absolutely loved it. And then I saw the production in LA with the show trying to get a lot bigger and made some unnecessary changes, and the lead changed to Phillipa Soo, and thought the show had already lost most of its charm and whimsy. I instantly knew the Broadway run would be a farther downgrade.
Blew my mind that they decided to tour this production. It was so specific to the Circle In the Square space. When taken out of it the show was a fucking mess. Huge mistake.
The revival was staged at Circle in the Square with immersive elements like tables right up against the stage with chili that the front row eats during intermission. The house lights were up for much of the show too. Creative choices that don’t scale to the huge auditoriums that usually host touring shows.
actually, the entire audience (not just the first row) were invited up onto the stage at intermission to feast on cornbread and the chili cooking in those crockpots on the tables lining the sides of the stage throughout the play. the country band were in two shallow pits cut into the front end of the thrust stage -- it was a nice display of respect that the audience were trusted to walk around that with care. i agree with the rest -- circle in the square has a long thrust stage -- the 3/4-round audience only ten rows deep, on a steep grade -- very democratic, immersive feel. and for this, the whole house was lined with something like raw plywood, mounted with gunracks loaded with rifles -- most informative house decoration i've ever seen on broadway . . . i can see how these effective conceptual details would likely be omitted in conventional proscenium theaters on tour . . .
I was shocked when they toured. It barely worked at CITS (loved it, but definitely felt off-Broadway) and I could not imagine it working in these massive touring houses with audiences who would absolutely walk out at intermission.
Hard agree. I've seen two shows on tour from Circle in the Round (Once on this Island and Oklahoma!) and since the OOTI lost a lot of charm in the lack of intimacy and change in staging, I can imagine how much more impactful the Oklahoma! revival was on Broadway.
And that's before accounting for the drastic changes made in tone which also shocked a lot of the audience I saw it with (I think many didn't know it would be so dark).
KPOP. Disclaimer: I didn't see it as it closed too soon, but by all accounts I heard the inmersive production off-Broadway was unique and well thought out, and didn't translate well on Broadway (even with Circle in the Square)
I read about how the Off-Broadway version had a “choose your own adventure” vibe where you changed rooms depending on what group you wanted to follow, which is not only great for getting people to see the show more than once, but as someone who’s NOT into KPOP, I probably would have gone to see it just for the unique experience!
The changes they made when Amelie transferred to Broadway really killed the show for me. The song with the most heart was completely gutted and it felt like the show lost a lot.
Also came to talk about Amélie, but on the other end of its Broadway run - the subsequent UK version with new orchestrations blows the Broadway version out of the water.
I won't say *Aladdin* was "ruined" in its Broadway transfer, but I think it lost a lot of its passion and heart in favor of an understandable shift to make it more streamlined with the film's tone and also to reflect the "wow, audiences are EXTREMELY receptive to James Monroe Iglehart as the Genie, we absolutely need to reframe the show around this character" realization in Toronto.
The Toronto version felt like the type of oldschool adventure films that the original Aladdin concepts were based around, but with a musical flair. It felt more like something that Ashman & Menken might have put together. The Broadway version feels like a more generic Disney on Broadway piece.
Also gutting Aladdin's friends to the point that they feel pointless was a hard loss, along with the loss of Call Me a Princess (because many audiences couldn't understand the concept of Jasmine acting bratty but not really being bratty) and the Arabian Nights reprises.
Another change I disliked: In Toronto, Aladdin's friends were not thieves. They were an actual band. Aladdin was the one who turned to stealing after his mom died out of anger/grief/etc, and his friends were disappointed that he keeps up a life of crime. The lead-up to Proud of Your Boy worked much better in Toronto.
Oh and it doesn't need to be said, really, but RIP the pre-Broadway version of "Babkak, Omar, Aladdin, Kassim." or should I say "KASSIIIIIIIIIIIIMMMMMMMMMMM!!"
Aladdin was one of those shows where I feel like the (re-)additions made for the stage version just fundamentally don’t work. I know that many of the songs and concepts originated with the film and were cut or changed throughout its production, but the film feels stronger as a result. Babkak, Omar and Kassim really don’t add a lot to the story. Proud of Your Boy is nice enough, but again, doesn’t add a lot to Aladdin’s character, nor does These Palace Walls. They’re simply expressing emotions through song which were already abundantly clear through dialogue.
I will say though, I loved what they did with A Whole New World. I was surprised to see them change the overall sound of one of the signature songs of the film, but it really worked for me.
IMO Proud of Your Boy added a lot more in the Toronto version, where we get a much clearer picture that Aladdin is letting the memory of his mother down. But then for Broadway they just sort of axed that or at least took out the coherency. Which is a shame because in Toronto I felt that Aladdin making his mom proud worked as an emotional core of the show, which is clearly something they wanted with the song + TWO reprises... so it stinks that they gutted what made the song work on a narrative level for me.
Call me a Princess > These Palace Walls. Jasmine doesn't need a bland "I want!" song for us to know she wants to see the world. Call Me a Princess doesn't necessarily do much for her character but at least it was funny and not generic.
There is one out there but it's not the best show-date from what I recall, some of the tricks didn't go off as planned lol. But it's definitely an interesting watch to see where the show was at in the Toronto pre-Broadway production. I'd love to see the Seattle production which had waaaaaaay more cut material including, if I'm remembering correctly, Jafar's song "Why Me?"
Here Lies Love kind of did both? I actually think they reflected the party atmosphere and tonal shifts extremely well inside the theater, but completely went off the rails with the marketing so people thought it was purely a fun night out and…did not get that at all.
high stakes tension, insurance companies, and nervous thuggish overzealous schubert org. security, etc. ensure that truly immersive audience participation shows can never be successfully mounted in a broadway house . . . did not help that in the runup, producers tried to pull a union-busting fast one, claiming hiring live musicians would defeat their disco aesthetic or something . . . a steaming pile deserving of all the bad karma that ensued . . .
The worst part is that they said the karaoke aesthetic they were going for was part of their Filipino heritage and stopped just short of outright calling the union racist. Absolutely embarrassing.
Charlie and the Chocolate Factory tried too hard to be like the movie when it transferred to Broadway. They removed a bunch of songs to replace them with the movie ones (including ‘Simply Second Nature’, the best song in the show), they had the kids be played by adults, there was just so much off about the Broadway production.
Such a terrible change. From genuinely suave, cool, and a bit sinister to trying to emulate dude-bro Keanu. If that was an acting choice, the director should have shut it down.
I feel like Finding Neverland never (ha!) quite found its footing. I’ve listened to both the off-Broadway and Broadway soundtracks and I never quite felt the familial love we’re supposed to. Then I saw it on tour with my family and all of us were so bored by the end of it.
Cabaret was made significantly better in its transfer to broadway imho. I was very glad that they had the good sense to hardly change a thing for its 2014 revival-revival.
The recent 1776 revival, with a cast of performers who would have had little in the way of rights or freedom in 1776 playing characters legislating rights and freedom -- genius stroke that made the revival relevant and not just nationalistic kitsch. At ART in Cambridge, it felt like an important event, and like the cast were feeling that. on broadway it was strained, forced, rushed. Cast change of the lead John Adams character didn't help -- tho the Bway one was capable, wasn't the iconic figure created at ART . . . and behind-the-scenes internecine conflicts in NYC were symptomatic of lost company focus, lost unity . . .
It's quite on the nose, but Disaster!
I saw it off-Broadway and the low budget/small theatre was a lot of what made the show funny. On Broadway, it was too much of a spectacle and lost its magic imo.
Kiss of the Spiderwoman originally got panned when they did it out of town (or at least out of NYC) at SUNY Purchase and honestly thank god for that, because it spurred all the rewrites and it became the show we know and love today because of that pan.
Seussical had a very successful workshop in Toronto, but by the time it got to its first full production in Boston it was already very much in trouble, hence drastic decisions like replacing Catherine Zuber's very Seussian costumes with William Ivy Long's much more representational design that clashed very heavily with the set that was still very much replicating the Seuss illustrations.
Company pretty famously pulled off a miraculous broadway run. Id say Kpop/Here Lies Love/Great Comet are all nominees for ruined transfers. The odds of ever making a profit on such niche shows that required insane renovations to the theatres were so slim
Great Comet had so much potential and I feel like the bullshit drama caused around Okieriete Onaodowan being put on hold for 2 weeks to better prepare for the role, which led to Dave Malloy being called racist, and Denee Benton and Amber Grey of being "complicit" in racism. Very horrible shit being thrown around.
I just think it's crazy how this all started because one random opinion from a low-readership blog made a SUGGESTION that Patinkin's hiring was racially-motivated. Anyone with even a minor understanding of Broadway could tell you how inaccurate that is given how diverse the cast was (it literally won awards for it). I think it's what soured me on the idea of "cancel culture".
The Story of My Life was a beautiful small production in Toronto with these magical cozy sets and costumes that were dreamy and just luscious. The Broadway transfer was this hideous stark minimalist thing with bleak neutral colours and all the life sucked out.
Limelight the Charlie Chaplin story was absolutely butchered. It went from being this colorful portrayal of CC in La Jolla to a black and white set, costumes, video, etc circus spectacle that was so incredibly boring. Rob McClure and Jen Colella held it together.
It hasn’t transferred yet, but I’m hoping Beaches will be much improved in the newest staging and will finally open on Broadway.
As other people have brought up tours, I will say that Ghost was ruined when it went on tour but The Addams Family was much better.
A lot of the special effects didn’t translate well, so you lost a lot of the magic when it came to the ghosts and the movement scenes.
Also, there was a lot of spike tape on the floor of the set - which is glaringly obvious when the floor is black.
Probably not the first one that comes to mind, but: Scandalous, previously known as Saving Aimee. It premiered in White Plains, then went down to DC.
The original/DC productions were received really well. Reviews and audience reactions were strong. Generally, the take was that it’s a charming musical that needed a little work. Unsurprisingly, Carolee Carmello got stellar reviews.
Then it sat on the shelf for five years.
Then a new version was produced in Seattle where it was torn apart. None of the changes worked. …….and then that production transferred to Broadway, where it was renamed “Scandalous”, and changed even further. By then, it was an unrecognizable mess.
Just goes to show, there is such a thing as over-workshopping. Still, the album is worth a listen just for Carolee.
Both Hadestown and Great Comet were fundamentally changed by their Broadway transfers, and while I still loved Great Comet, for me personally Hadestown lost a lot of what I loved about it when it was performed in a much more intimate, bare-bones setting (and I wasn’t a fan of the story changes but that’s a different issue). I think if it had gone to Circle in the Square (and if Damon hadn’t gone to Oklahoma), I would have some VERY different feelings.
You can still see Jo as questioning her (their) gender, which is how I interpret the character (and relate to her/them in that way). It's just not blatantly referenced in the show. I get why - they wanted to keep Lauren Patten and didn't want people upset about casting a cis person in the role, and IMO keeping LP was the right choice (although the tour Jo was pretty damn good, too).
I get why people are upset about it, they handled it the wrong way when fans brought it up, but I see why they did it.
I think this is one of the few times where the tour has improved on mistakes Broadway made! Jo was changed back to being gender queer/non binary and only non-binary/trans actors have been playing them!
I only saw Bloody Bloody Andrew Jackson on Broadway and hated it. I had heard nothing but great things about the off Broadway run. I like to think it just didn't transfer well.
I wouldn't say flat out ruined, but Lightning Thief on Broadway felt disappointing to me because it seemed swallowed up by the large theater. A show with a simple, scrappy DIY aesthetic like that works best Off Broadway. If it's moving to Broadway it needs to amp up the scale a little more.
(I'm not saying Broadway can't have minimalist or simple shows. But I feel like Lightning Thief deserved better in terms of a setting that suited it.)
Wonka.
If you consider the Broadway one a transfer of the lavish West End production (it seemed to be trying to do all of the same things except for the set and fewer young performers...)
In the other direction, *Heathers* had wider success in the West End (which is also a show that just would get lost in too big a venue); similarly *Groundhog Day.*
Be More Chill was way better in New Jersey than it was on Broadway.
I'm not a fan of the broadway show makes it seem more like Jeremy being bullied or taken advantage of is something he just needs to learn to deal with as if its HIS fault. The broadway version actually pushes this to another level.
It is actually uncomfortable at how it makes Chloe trying to..FORCE herself..,.on Jeremy, while pressing him to drink alcohol, as HIS fault.
I'm surprised Harmony's already out the door when I remember it being an early Best Musical contender. It got lots of acclaim off-Broadway. What happened there?
Leap of Faith, IMO. I had been following the development of that show for a decade as best I could, and although I never had the chance to see it live the LA pre-Broadway version of the show was so much better than what eventually made it to Broadway. The changes they made to the book for Broadway, in particular, were...not good. It's a shame because the cast was AMAZING, the music is great, and it really just fell down on account of the book (and the mediocre set).
my strong opinion is that the hadestown oobcr is better than the obcr, the broadway orchestrations suck the soul out of what was once folksy and unique. i just wish wedding song and flowers were on that recording.
Not ruined, but I was very surprised, confused, and disappointed seeing &Juliet on broadway for the first time, after having seen it many times during it's pre-broadway run in Toronto. They massively chopped up one particular scene, removed an entire character from that scene, and then had to redo most of the dialogue in order to try and get into the next scene...but the following scene made no sense without the previous scene being as it originally was. I cannot fathom why they did that.
I think Once Upon a One More Time did both--the plot changes were great, but having Briga do that soubrette instead of using her regular voice (which she did in DC) made her almost unwatchable
Can we include shows that needed an out of town try out? Cause New York New York… yikes
But it's in the name I mean where else were they supposed to play it Stamford, Connecticut /j
I was listening to sinatra’s version of New York New York and it is so iconic and associated with the city. I think toddlers and pensioners would be able to recognise that song. Having that standard in place is the benchmark, they needed to cast somebody who could nail that song and honestly I don’t think they came close with what I heard
I really didn’t dislike it. I think it had good points. I like a vignette story but some of the casting just didn’t make sense.
Omg it was so bad
Next to Normal was famously improved by an out of town tryout after getting only mixed reviews off Broadway.
I saw all four versions of it (festival, Second Stage, DC, and Broadway) and can confirm
Do you mind giving a quick summary of what they changed/improved? It’s one of my favorite shows, so I’m curious.
The Broadway version focused more on the family. The versions before that focus on the psychology side.
Is the updated version the one going to the west end?
The score and dialogue yes. But it will have a new direction, different Director
Thanks. I have never heard about the updated book and I love that show so I have very interested in the changes
I’m so jealous. I’m a latecomer and only discovered it this year.
There's a pretty good full bootleg of the off-Broadway production on Youtube you can find just by searching "next to normal off-broadway." What's striking for me is that, besides the obvious songlist changes, even the songs that made it to the final version had dozens of lyric tweaks that brought the writing from good to stellar. For example the "what doesn't kill me, doesn't kill me" lyric in Just Another Day wasn't there until the final version. The off-Broadway version was "what doesn't kill me makes me stronger" which isn't a *bad* lyric, it's just mundane and obvious. The change makes it unexpected and immediately tells you what the characters are going through.
Little Shop of Horrors. The 2004 Broadway production felt bloated and soulless. It belongs in a small, intimate space, as I think the current off-Broadway production has proven.
Howard Ashman famously didn’t want the show to ever open on Broadway and blocked attempts to transfer the original production. The 2004 version was proof positive, and its existence almost feels like spitting in his face.
Aw man, really? That cast recording is my go-to. Bummer.
This may be unpopular, but I actually really don’t like the expanded orchestrations on the Broadway cast recording. It just sounds so slick and polished, and I miss the garage band sound of the original score. Also, I like Kerry Butler in a lot of things, but it feels like she was just directed to play Audrey as a ditzy cartoon character, which is a bummer.
Idk, I saw that production and liked it. I was also a teenager at the time and enamored with Kerry Butler, so I think that might have swayed my opinion
Same. Was compelled to see it cuz they did it at my high school and I was crushing hard on the bloke who played Seymour.
I love the cast recording from that production though :)
Same. It’s my fave.
i HARD agree here, the show is not broadway material, and that’s what makes it SO GOOD, i do however LOVE the actors in the OBC, they are my favorite cast, and my favorite cast recording. Not a fan of the finale on it, but overall i think it’s the best cast album.
American psycho was pushed onto Broadway instead of an out of town/off Broadway run since they made some big changes from London, it’s a shame bc it was a fun show
Saw the Almeida production twice, it was that good. And I am not a particular fan of the film or novel. Really suited the more intimate theatre.
The playwright attended the Kokandy production in Chicago and said exactly that. It works better in more intimate settings. And that Kokandy production was absolutely incredible.
I need more people to talk about kokand productions they’re making some incredible theatre. Their Sweeney Todd was phenomenal
This year it’s Alice By Heart and Into the Woods!!! Plus they’re reviving the Chicago Musical Theatre Festival at Steppenwolf’s 1700 space.
I love the movie for how sickly satirical it is, the stage show is just pure camp and horror, you are what you wear is a top tier song for me
And tbh I think that's what the original author would have wanted from book to stage.
I still thoroughly enjoyed myself! It was worth it for the lighting design alone!
The projections also worked well, they added to the consumerism hellscape
That show would have done well off Broadway. It’s a great show.
It’d be killing time like it’s nothing
I’ve never had the chance to see it live but the music is criminally underrated. I listen to the West End cast recording often.
Can we add shows that lost something in translation to touring? Because I have a lot of bones to pick with the *Anastasia* team. Cutting out "Crossing a Bridge" and replacing it with a mediocre "Paris Holds the Key" reprise, removing part of "Learn to Do It," and a dozen little tiny changes and dialogue cuts that went in the wrong direction and made absolutely no sense. I'm not saying it was a Tony-worthy masterpiece before - though I have a soft spot for it personally - but all those little cuts and changes just added up to something a little lesser-than.
The train car choreography decline from Broadway to first tour (Kennedy Center) to regional 2nd tour was just... disappointing
I was so excited for the DC tour and saw it and left feeling so underwhelmed. I wonder if I’d have liked it more if I had been able to see it on Broadway. I listen to the soundtrack often.
Controversial... but I think the Hartford version of Anastasia was (slightly) more daring and interesting than what went to Broadway. Especially the change of Gleb from a doting, awkward character into a "chucks chins and intimidates women because he's a ~dark romance archetype" character. At least when Ramin played him.
If it makes you feel better, Max Von Essen's Gleb was definitely closer to the adorkable yet morally gray character that it sounds like the Hartford version was.
It does! A lot of Gleb actors are more nuanced than Ramin was; I mean, I can't necessarily blame him for it, it sounds like it's the direction that he was given for the character. But it's so bland compared to Hartford-style Gleb.
I also found Hartford!Gleb more intriguing and messy in a good way, but "Anya" was a dreadful song 😂 "Still" has the *oomph* that a Javert-esque villain song needs, but I definitely disliked them bringing that Phantom-y/dark romance/obsession vibe into it when they cast Ramin.
I watched the slime tutorial on YouTube from I believe it’s previews in Chicago and was obsessed. FINALLY got to see the tour three years after I was supposed to (Covid) and I was… yeah. Disappointed.
Hard agree. "Crossing a Bridge" is one of my favorite songs from that score and hearing that it was cut for the tour just tanked any interest I had in seeing it when it came through my area.
It’s not as big of a thing but I dislike how they removed the boxes during the Quartet at the Ballet, the multiple layers added so much
What was removed from "Learn To Do it"? Such a fun song. Didn't know it got changed.
THEY CUT OUT CROSSING A BRIDGE?? I’m scandalized 😭 that song is one of my favorites from the show, it’s so beautiful
The Lightning Thief lost all of its charm by moving it to Broadway without a substantial upgrade. In a small off-Broadway venue, the low budget aesthetic was charming, but on Broadway it fell completely flat.
Saw it at The Beacon before bway and the Beacon show was much better
Let's be real, they likely just wanted to slap a "broadway musical" label on it for licensing and plan to make it up on the backend.
Weren't they fairly honest about just taking up a theater that was otherwise going to be empty for months and pricing tickets pretty low? I agree the show wasn't Broadway level without upgrades but I liked it on tour for the $10 I paid. It had a pretty good soundtrack too.
It's this. The Shuberts wanted a show, and this one was ending a tour. It wasn't brought in for any other reason.
This was my immediate thought. It felt awkwardly swallowed up. They needed to amp up the set design and choreography if they were going to move it to Broadway.
K-pop definitely should've booked another tryout before coming in. They were relying too much on the buzz from the 2017 Ars Nova production, when they needed to build more momentum before coming to Broadway. Similarly, here lies love could've probably benefited from another off-broadway run, but I understand that would be cost prohibitive.
It doesn’t help that K-Pop had massive changes between the Ars Nova and bway without testing the show on a thrust stage at a different venue.
Seeing K-pop in a half full Wednesday matinee like 4 weeks after their opening on an intense edible was one of my best theatre experiences, but only cause the K-pop performers I had followed for years were inches away. Awkward acting, bad writing, I think the open immersive concept it used to have was the only way that show was gonna work
I had a similar reaction when I saw it (but without the edible, lol). I really enjoyed it and had a great time, but 60% of that may have just been because I was super pumped to see Luna, Kevin, and Min perform live.
The thing with KPOP is, they did. They booked a run at Signature Theatre in Arlington, VA, but they cancelled it due to COVID, and proceeded on the original timeline, without the tryout.
A very famous example is A Funny Thing Happened on the Way to the Forum. Audiences were not connecting with the show out of town. Famed director George Abbot didn’t seem to know how to fix it. Both Joshua Logan and Jerome Robbins were brought in to advise. Robbins convinced Sondheim that “Love Is in the Air” was the wrong number to open such a bawdy comedy. Sondheim wrote “Comedy Tonight” to replace it and the show became a smash hit almost overnight.
Wasn't LIITA the second opening number he wrote, before he wrote Comedy Tonight?
Yes, though if I remember correctly “Forget War” was dropped pretty quickly and “Love Is in the Air” took much longer to be replaced
This is correct. Jerome Robbins didn’t like “Forget War.” Then he wrote “Love Is In The Air,” which didn’t properly establish the vision of reality of the show and made the audiences expect a romance. When the show was bombing out of town in previews, he went to George Abbott, who told him he needed to write a song like “Forget War” that Jerome Robbins will like. Thus, “Comedy Tonight.”
I know he talks about it in Sondheim on Sondheim but I can't remember the specifics.
My two gothic loves: Jekyll and Hyde and Tanz Der Vampire. Jekyll and Hyde had a superb concept album and touring version that was gutted when it arrived on Broadway. Tanz Der Vampire (still running to this day in Germany) became a parody when it came to the States and was a defanged shadow of its former self.
Jekyll and Hyde was amazing in its pre-Broadway run. I was stunned at how bad the Broadway production was.
I followed Jekyll and Hyde from the concept album on. Someone gave me the concept in High School. The 2 disk version, while good, had a lot of extra in it. The Broadway version tried to make it tighter, and focus on odd things. Like the dead dad thing was leaned into on Broadway with the other male roles all older folk. I did talk to some stagehands that when the tour came through, pre-Broadway, people laughed when he got killed at the end of the show. It was just so sudden. It reminds me of my favorite bit in musical theater, from 42nd Street: >Stop! He’s got my Purse! >GUNSHOT, (kills the robber) problem solved. >Let’s tap.
Michael Kunze has now had two massive hits whose English adaptations flopped. It’s unfortunate that Rebecca and Tanz Der Vampire are unknown or only known as failures to most English-speaking audiences.
I heard the London production of Rebecca was alright (though a little disadvantaged due to being in a small theatre)
I love Tanz der Vampire. Can‘t believe how much they destroyed it to make it a „better fit“ for the US, taking away all it‘s charm (and most of my favorite moments)
Fully agreed. However, there is some personal hope: after being a fan for over 20 years, I am FINALLY seeing the show in Hamburg over the summer!
I'm torn between seeing it or not since I don't speak German and I'm not familiar with the material. Do you think it has such an intricate plot that I wouldn't be able to understand or would I be fine at getting the general of it?
I think you can still follow it vaguely but will be very confused when things like dream sequences happen. Also, a lot of the humour (and nuances) will probably fly over your head if you don't know the language. I recommend watching any English subbed slime tutorial in advance some weeks/days before you go see the show (never the day before to avoid having vivid memory of said slime tutorial), and you'll enjoy it much more than going in blind.
Congrats! I finally got to see it last year in Stuttgart and it was so freaking amazing!
I don’t have a horse in this particular race but I have a *lot* of friends with very strong opinions that the Ars Nova *Great Comet* was leagues better than the Broadway, even before any controversy affected it.
The general consensus seems to be that Great Comet got worse every time it got bigger. It was best in the meatpacking district, and the ART production robbed it of the intimacy that made it so special, and the Broadway run was the culmination of that trend. I think it’s maybe a good thing the long-rumored tour never came to be, because imagining a show that was already swamped in a 1,000-seat Broadway house playing in 2-3,000 seat touring venues…yikes.
I was on the stage and it was one of my favorite experiences ever on Broadway.
I saw it and had a blast! It looked like you all were having a great time.
Great Comet is playing in Toronto in an intimate setting and the run keeps getting extended. It's fantastic!
Oh man, I saw it on Broadway and loved it! I can’t imagine how much I would have been blown away by the Ars Nova version..
Same! I personally don’t think the Broadway version was a failure by any means—it’s one of my favorite theater experiences of all time—but any show that starts out in such an intimate space is bound to get more impersonal as it gets larger.
Great Comet is my favourite musical, I’ve only experienced the Broadway version (via slime tutorials) and I absolutely adore it but I get what you mean. I saw the Watermill Theatre’s production of Lord of the Rings a few months ago and I absolutely adored how the show used the space, which makes me unsure what I want the future of that production to be because, while I want more people to see this production, I feel like it would lose a lot of its magic if it was in a larger space.
I don’t know. I had a dancers ass right in my face. Seemed plenty intimate. Haha. No complaints here!!
I agree! I didn't see any of the off-Broadway productions, but the magnitude of the Imperial is incomparable. I get that the "immersiveness" of a smaller venue may have its appeal for some, but the absolute feat of the balcony-to-orchestra stairs, the snaking ramps, the blinding headlights bordering the doors atop an insane staircase- I could go on. No idea how it could be improved by touring.
Yeah IDK if I would have preferred the small space. I do love the grandness they managed to achieve on Broadway and idk how well that would happen in a small space.
I have friends who say the same thing! I didn’t get a chance to see it at Ars Nova.
I only ever saw it on Broadway, but I definitely felt that stage seating was the only way to experience it fully. It needs that intimacy for the maximalism to really take effect. If they ever brought it back to New York, it needs the Kazino or bust.
Chess. The correct answer is Chess
I am shocked I had to scroll this far for this. Chess was massacred on Broadway.
The correct answer will always be Chess, Although the semi staged version at the Kennedy Center a few years ago came the closest to fixing the issues with the book and making it almost viable enough to try Broadway (after a few more refinements) again.
*Pleeeeeeeeeease* just produce it as an extravagant staged concert with cirque-dance bits and immersive cool lighting elements and ensemble with choir experience and sufficient orchestra+band and everyone singing their face off. It's ABBA, goddammit. The plot should be vague oppressive atmosphere like Silent Hill; you *shouldn't* understand it completely. You focus on the plot it collapses from a wave to a particle and becomes *CSPAN on staaaaaaaaage...* More *Tommy/Hair/Superstar* less practical furniture. (I'll stop now!)
I saw it in London in 1989, and it was fantastic. Every production I've seen since has been sad by comparison. There are so many different versions of the book, it just seems to end up a mess...
Poor Chess… ❤️♟️❤️
Moulin Rouge had some interesting changes from Boston to Broadway. They cut a very boring rendition of Shake it Off which was good, but I'm convinced that the longer that show runs, the more boring it gets. A huge part of the charm in Boston was how it felt a little bit chaotic. The venue wasn't huge, the cabaret seating was more intimate, and it felt more genuinely "slapped together" and low budget even though it wasn't. Half the plot of Moulin Rouge is about Bohemian ideals and as the show has run longer, it's gotten slicker and cleaner and lost a little bit of the authenticity it had pre-Broadway. It makes me wonder if a touring production could recapture the haphazard charm and energy of Boston.
The tour version was pretty polished. Definitely not.
I don’t love that The Great Gatsby is transferring so quickly. I thought it needed quite a bit of work to get it ready, but what do I know?
They’re just racing the other production I think, and will probably be the poorer for it.
💯
I thought Finding Neverland was really good in Cambridge. On Broadway, not so much. Idk who decided to replace Jeremy Jordan with Matthew Morrison but it’s a no from me. Plus, the rewrites of several songs were meh.
If I had a nickel for every time Jeremy Jordan excelled with the early versions of a musical, then got replaced by a less skillful but bigger "name" actor for the final version, I'd have two nickels, which isn't much, but it sucks that it's happened twice.
For the uninformed - what’s the other one?
The greatest showman
I think JJ was just brought in to sing at the workshop as Hugh Jackman was ill, he wasn’t replaced.
I was thinking of his original role as Philip, rather than the last-minute doubling with Barnum's songs.
The Zac Efron character? Apols, I had no idea on that so assumed the other. So he was originally going to be in the film and then got replaced by Mr Efron? I get it and makes commercial sense, but gutting for him!
YES! This is always my answer to this question. I adored it at the ART- I saw it twice and cried both times, it was so magical. They managed to take that magic out of it when it went to broadway.
I really enjoyed the tour. I know things between Bway and the tour. Now I’m wondering if the changes were new or a return to the Cambridge version.
I loved the Broadway version. Probably helped that I was sitting second row in the Lunt Fontanne though
I enjoyed it a LOT at ART. Loved the whole pocket watch opening number bit, and how they used an actor (wonderful Thayne Jasperson) to be porthos instead of a real dog, as a cool call back to the OG Peter Pan. Also Jeremy Jordan was Fantatsic as always.
This! I was already annoyed that they changed the key to Believe because it was perfect before, but what really sent me over the edge was replacing Jeremy Jordan. You do not replace Jeremy Jordan. Jeremy's JM Barrie was so charming and his voice was *chef's kiss*.
The biggest issue for me was the super-cloying use of the kid. But it's never a good sign when Kelsey Grammer is the most watchable person on your show! I will concede that they used a wonderful stage effect to represent the mother's death though.
Be More Chill lost all of its charm in the move.
+1 They tried way too hard to appeal to the younger demographic, and it really erased a lot of what made the original so funny.
+1 absolutely
I maintain its best iteration is the Signature Theatre production, between New Jersey and Broadway. Just enough had been changed to keep it fresh, but it wasn’t as loud and hammy as it would inevitably become. The minute they cut More Than Survive (Reprise) for Sync Up, they lost the plot. (Also, W*** R***** is terrible casting for Jeremy, and all of his Broadway alternates were so much better in the role it makes it embarrassing to listen to the cast recording.) ([Also also, the West End run is significantly worse than the Broadway run and is only salvaged by putting the cut part of Upgrade back at the end of Loser Geek Whatever.])
The West End version was absolutely insane. The Broadway version had already been severely watered down, but the West End version was so bland I left the theater wondering what I'd just watched. I genuinely don't understand. Also, are we twins, because I've been saying the same thing about the Upgrade bit being its only saving grace, LOL.
My go-to answer for this: *The Visit*. The book was harmed by John Doyle cutting it down to ninety minutes. The story is a slow-burn thriller. Some stories actually need a slower pace, and *The Visit* is one of them. A lot of interesting material was cut, particular regarding developing the characters in the town. The character of Anton's wife was significantly reduced, and the role of the Mayor's wife was cut altogether, and with them, a lot of the insight into how the town views Claire. Meanwhile, the score was hurt by both an insufficient orchestra (the most recent out-of-town tryout did actually have a slightly larger orchestra), and the cutting of Claire's bodyguards, which meant that the vocal makeup of Claire's whole crew became one bass and three altos, with a stark gap where the middle harmonies should have gone. Vocal arrangements that were written for six people sound hollow when you just take out two of the middle voices.
Amelie.
Stations was a million times better than When the Booth Goes Bright, and I will die on this hill.
This! And I’m so mad they cut The Sound of Going ‘Round in Circles.
And cutting Flight of the Blue Fly, which meant they needed to rewrite the closing song too. I have no idea if it would've done better on Broadway without the changes, but I wouldn't be as bitter about it.
I saw the show in Berkeley with Samantha Banks in a 500ish-seat house, with the entire Paris cramped onto a small-ish stage and absolutely loved it. And then I saw the production in LA with the show trying to get a lot bigger and made some unnecessary changes, and the lead changed to Phillipa Soo, and thought the show had already lost most of its charm and whimsy. I instantly knew the Broadway run would be a farther downgrade.
I think I saw it seven times in LA. I loved it so much.
Not exactly what you asked but the recent Oklahoma revival got worse when it went on tour because touring venues weren't suited to it.
Blew my mind that they decided to tour this production. It was so specific to the Circle In the Square space. When taken out of it the show was a fucking mess. Huge mistake.
What limitations were there for the touring show?
The revival was staged at Circle in the Square with immersive elements like tables right up against the stage with chili that the front row eats during intermission. The house lights were up for much of the show too. Creative choices that don’t scale to the huge auditoriums that usually host touring shows.
actually, the entire audience (not just the first row) were invited up onto the stage at intermission to feast on cornbread and the chili cooking in those crockpots on the tables lining the sides of the stage throughout the play. the country band were in two shallow pits cut into the front end of the thrust stage -- it was a nice display of respect that the audience were trusted to walk around that with care. i agree with the rest -- circle in the square has a long thrust stage -- the 3/4-round audience only ten rows deep, on a steep grade -- very democratic, immersive feel. and for this, the whole house was lined with something like raw plywood, mounted with gunracks loaded with rifles -- most informative house decoration i've ever seen on broadway . . . i can see how these effective conceptual details would likely be omitted in conventional proscenium theaters on tour . . .
The revival is best in a very very small theater, and most regional theaters are too big for this production.
I was shocked when they toured. It barely worked at CITS (loved it, but definitely felt off-Broadway) and I could not imagine it working in these massive touring houses with audiences who would absolutely walk out at intermission.
Hard agree. I've seen two shows on tour from Circle in the Round (Once on this Island and Oklahoma!) and since the OOTI lost a lot of charm in the lack of intimacy and change in staging, I can imagine how much more impactful the Oklahoma! revival was on Broadway. And that's before accounting for the drastic changes made in tone which also shocked a lot of the audience I saw it with (I think many didn't know it would be so dark).
In terms of touring, Fun Home fell FLAT as a pancake in Boston IMO. It did not belong in a giant opera house.
KPOP. Disclaimer: I didn't see it as it closed too soon, but by all accounts I heard the inmersive production off-Broadway was unique and well thought out, and didn't translate well on Broadway (even with Circle in the Square)
I read about how the Off-Broadway version had a “choose your own adventure” vibe where you changed rooms depending on what group you wanted to follow, which is not only great for getting people to see the show more than once, but as someone who’s NOT into KPOP, I probably would have gone to see it just for the unique experience!
It was SO good off-Broadway.
The changes they made when Amelie transferred to Broadway really killed the show for me. The song with the most heart was completely gutted and it felt like the show lost a lot.
Also came to talk about Amélie, but on the other end of its Broadway run - the subsequent UK version with new orchestrations blows the Broadway version out of the water.
I won't say *Aladdin* was "ruined" in its Broadway transfer, but I think it lost a lot of its passion and heart in favor of an understandable shift to make it more streamlined with the film's tone and also to reflect the "wow, audiences are EXTREMELY receptive to James Monroe Iglehart as the Genie, we absolutely need to reframe the show around this character" realization in Toronto. The Toronto version felt like the type of oldschool adventure films that the original Aladdin concepts were based around, but with a musical flair. It felt more like something that Ashman & Menken might have put together. The Broadway version feels like a more generic Disney on Broadway piece. Also gutting Aladdin's friends to the point that they feel pointless was a hard loss, along with the loss of Call Me a Princess (because many audiences couldn't understand the concept of Jasmine acting bratty but not really being bratty) and the Arabian Nights reprises. Another change I disliked: In Toronto, Aladdin's friends were not thieves. They were an actual band. Aladdin was the one who turned to stealing after his mom died out of anger/grief/etc, and his friends were disappointed that he keeps up a life of crime. The lead-up to Proud of Your Boy worked much better in Toronto. Oh and it doesn't need to be said, really, but RIP the pre-Broadway version of "Babkak, Omar, Aladdin, Kassim." or should I say "KASSIIIIIIIIIIIIMMMMMMMMMMM!!"
Aladdin was one of those shows where I feel like the (re-)additions made for the stage version just fundamentally don’t work. I know that many of the songs and concepts originated with the film and were cut or changed throughout its production, but the film feels stronger as a result. Babkak, Omar and Kassim really don’t add a lot to the story. Proud of Your Boy is nice enough, but again, doesn’t add a lot to Aladdin’s character, nor does These Palace Walls. They’re simply expressing emotions through song which were already abundantly clear through dialogue. I will say though, I loved what they did with A Whole New World. I was surprised to see them change the overall sound of one of the signature songs of the film, but it really worked for me.
IMO Proud of Your Boy added a lot more in the Toronto version, where we get a much clearer picture that Aladdin is letting the memory of his mother down. But then for Broadway they just sort of axed that or at least took out the coherency. Which is a shame because in Toronto I felt that Aladdin making his mom proud worked as an emotional core of the show, which is clearly something they wanted with the song + TWO reprises... so it stinks that they gutted what made the song work on a narrative level for me. Call me a Princess > These Palace Walls. Jasmine doesn't need a bland "I want!" song for us to know she wants to see the world. Call Me a Princess doesn't necessarily do much for her character but at least it was funny and not generic.
There isn't a slime tutorial of the production you're describing, is there?
There is one out there but it's not the best show-date from what I recall, some of the tricks didn't go off as planned lol. But it's definitely an interesting watch to see where the show was at in the Toronto pre-Broadway production. I'd love to see the Seattle production which had waaaaaaay more cut material including, if I'm remembering correctly, Jafar's song "Why Me?"
Here Lies Love kind of did both? I actually think they reflected the party atmosphere and tonal shifts extremely well inside the theater, but completely went off the rails with the marketing so people thought it was purely a fun night out and…did not get that at all.
high stakes tension, insurance companies, and nervous thuggish overzealous schubert org. security, etc. ensure that truly immersive audience participation shows can never be successfully mounted in a broadway house . . . did not help that in the runup, producers tried to pull a union-busting fast one, claiming hiring live musicians would defeat their disco aesthetic or something . . . a steaming pile deserving of all the bad karma that ensued . . .
The worst part is that they said the karaoke aesthetic they were going for was part of their Filipino heritage and stopped just short of outright calling the union racist. Absolutely embarrassing.
Charlie and the Chocolate Factory tried too hard to be like the movie when it transferred to Broadway. They removed a bunch of songs to replace them with the movie ones (including ‘Simply Second Nature’, the best song in the show), they had the kids be played by adults, there was just so much off about the Broadway production.
Not to mention the simplified sets. If *any* show should be embracing large, extravagant sets, it’s this one.
I considered seeing it on the UK tour until I found out that it used the Broadway version’s book
At least Christian Borle was an amazing Wonka.
Be More Chill was desecrated.
The Broadway Squip is hard to watch, and I love Keanu Reeves in general
Such a terrible change. From genuinely suave, cool, and a bit sinister to trying to emulate dude-bro Keanu. If that was an acting choice, the director should have shut it down.
Be More Chill never quite clicked for me, but the charm that I saw in its off-broadway run was completely stripped away.
Kpop. From what I read the gutted the book
Bloody Bloody Andrew Jackson Finding Neverland
I feel like Finding Neverland never (ha!) quite found its footing. I’ve listened to both the off-Broadway and Broadway soundtracks and I never quite felt the familial love we’re supposed to. Then I saw it on tour with my family and all of us were so bored by the end of it.
I loved it at the ART in Boston. I could understand the changes they made.
I mean the 1998 Broadway revival of cabaret is a transfer of the far inferior 1993 Donmar Warehouse production of the same show over in London
Cabaret was made significantly better in its transfer to broadway imho. I was very glad that they had the good sense to hardly change a thing for its 2014 revival-revival.
The recent 1776 revival, with a cast of performers who would have had little in the way of rights or freedom in 1776 playing characters legislating rights and freedom -- genius stroke that made the revival relevant and not just nationalistic kitsch. At ART in Cambridge, it felt like an important event, and like the cast were feeling that. on broadway it was strained, forced, rushed. Cast change of the lead John Adams character didn't help -- tho the Bway one was capable, wasn't the iconic figure created at ART . . . and behind-the-scenes internecine conflicts in NYC were symptomatic of lost company focus, lost unity . . .
It's quite on the nose, but Disaster! I saw it off-Broadway and the low budget/small theatre was a lot of what made the show funny. On Broadway, it was too much of a spectacle and lost its magic imo.
Kiss of the Spiderwoman originally got panned when they did it out of town (or at least out of NYC) at SUNY Purchase and honestly thank god for that, because it spurred all the rewrites and it became the show we know and love today because of that pan.
Didn’t Suessical massively get ruined in its transfer?
Seussical had a very successful workshop in Toronto, but by the time it got to its first full production in Boston it was already very much in trouble, hence drastic decisions like replacing Catherine Zuber's very Seussian costumes with William Ivy Long's much more representational design that clashed very heavily with the set that was still very much replicating the Seuss illustrations.
I enjoyed this video on Seussical if you want to learn more about what went wrong with the show. https://youtu.be/DVoHQbjhBO8?si=Ohng28Uw9dBSvWy1
Without clicking on the link… is that waiting in the wings?
(Checking… and yes.) Also, I called the channel the wrong name.)
Ooo thank you!
I actually heard it got better with the transfer to Broadway. But I could be wrong
Company pretty famously pulled off a miraculous broadway run. Id say Kpop/Here Lies Love/Great Comet are all nominees for ruined transfers. The odds of ever making a profit on such niche shows that required insane renovations to the theatres were so slim
Great Comet had so much potential and I feel like the bullshit drama caused around Okieriete Onaodowan being put on hold for 2 weeks to better prepare for the role, which led to Dave Malloy being called racist, and Denee Benton and Amber Grey of being "complicit" in racism. Very horrible shit being thrown around.
I will forever be sad we never heard Mandy Patinkin’s “Dust and Ashses”
I just think it's crazy how this all started because one random opinion from a low-readership blog made a SUGGESTION that Patinkin's hiring was racially-motivated. Anyone with even a minor understanding of Broadway could tell you how inaccurate that is given how diverse the cast was (it literally won awards for it). I think it's what soured me on the idea of "cancel culture".
Never understood why they didn't stunt cast Weird Al as Pierre.
The Story of My Life was a beautiful small production in Toronto with these magical cozy sets and costumes that were dreamy and just luscious. The Broadway transfer was this hideous stark minimalist thing with bleak neutral colours and all the life sucked out.
Limelight the Charlie Chaplin story was absolutely butchered. It went from being this colorful portrayal of CC in La Jolla to a black and white set, costumes, video, etc circus spectacle that was so incredibly boring. Rob McClure and Jen Colella held it together.
KPop The Musical...great off broadway not great on broadway
Big Fish. Loved it in Chicago. Not so much on Broadway
I loved Big Fish on Broadway, other than Katie Thompson what changed for the worse?
It hasn’t transferred yet, but I’m hoping Beaches will be much improved in the newest staging and will finally open on Broadway. As other people have brought up tours, I will say that Ghost was ruined when it went on tour but The Addams Family was much better.
How was Ghost different on tour?
A lot of the special effects didn’t translate well, so you lost a lot of the magic when it came to the ghosts and the movement scenes. Also, there was a lot of spike tape on the floor of the set - which is glaringly obvious when the floor is black.
Probably not the first one that comes to mind, but: Scandalous, previously known as Saving Aimee. It premiered in White Plains, then went down to DC. The original/DC productions were received really well. Reviews and audience reactions were strong. Generally, the take was that it’s a charming musical that needed a little work. Unsurprisingly, Carolee Carmello got stellar reviews. Then it sat on the shelf for five years. Then a new version was produced in Seattle where it was torn apart. None of the changes worked. …….and then that production transferred to Broadway, where it was renamed “Scandalous”, and changed even further. By then, it was an unrecognizable mess. Just goes to show, there is such a thing as over-workshopping. Still, the album is worth a listen just for Carolee.
Both Hadestown and Great Comet were fundamentally changed by their Broadway transfers, and while I still loved Great Comet, for me personally Hadestown lost a lot of what I loved about it when it was performed in a much more intimate, bare-bones setting (and I wasn’t a fan of the story changes but that’s a different issue). I think if it had gone to Circle in the Square (and if Damon hadn’t gone to Oklahoma), I would have some VERY different feelings.
IMO the end of the Seattle tryout of Shrek was the best version of the show
RIP More to the Story, I will always love it
Jagged Little Pill made Jo cisgender on Broadway after portraying Jo as gender queer/questioning in Boston. 😩 Mistake, IMO.
You can still see Jo as questioning her (their) gender, which is how I interpret the character (and relate to her/them in that way). It's just not blatantly referenced in the show. I get why - they wanted to keep Lauren Patten and didn't want people upset about casting a cis person in the role, and IMO keeping LP was the right choice (although the tour Jo was pretty damn good, too). I get why people are upset about it, they handled it the wrong way when fans brought it up, but I see why they did it.
I think this is one of the few times where the tour has improved on mistakes Broadway made! Jo was changed back to being gender queer/non binary and only non-binary/trans actors have been playing them!
Lord that show had WAY too many issues they were trying to encapsulate on stage. Im so glad it loads the Tony to Moulin Rouge.
Rags
I only saw Bloody Bloody Andrew Jackson on Broadway and hated it. I had heard nothing but great things about the off Broadway run. I like to think it just didn't transfer well.
I wouldn't say flat out ruined, but Lightning Thief on Broadway felt disappointing to me because it seemed swallowed up by the large theater. A show with a simple, scrappy DIY aesthetic like that works best Off Broadway. If it's moving to Broadway it needs to amp up the scale a little more. (I'm not saying Broadway can't have minimalist or simple shows. But I feel like Lightning Thief deserved better in terms of a setting that suited it.)
Wonka. If you consider the Broadway one a transfer of the lavish West End production (it seemed to be trying to do all of the same things except for the set and fewer young performers...) In the other direction, *Heathers* had wider success in the West End (which is also a show that just would get lost in too big a venue); similarly *Groundhog Day.*
Be More Chill was way better in New Jersey than it was on Broadway. I'm not a fan of the broadway show makes it seem more like Jeremy being bullied or taken advantage of is something he just needs to learn to deal with as if its HIS fault. The broadway version actually pushes this to another level. It is actually uncomfortable at how it makes Chloe trying to..FORCE herself..,.on Jeremy, while pressing him to drink alcohol, as HIS fault.
I'm surprised Harmony's already out the door when I remember it being an early Best Musical contender. It got lots of acclaim off-Broadway. What happened there?
Leap of Faith, IMO. I had been following the development of that show for a decade as best I could, and although I never had the chance to see it live the LA pre-Broadway version of the show was so much better than what eventually made it to Broadway. The changes they made to the book for Broadway, in particular, were...not good. It's a shame because the cast was AMAZING, the music is great, and it really just fell down on account of the book (and the mediocre set).
my strong opinion is that the hadestown oobcr is better than the obcr, the broadway orchestrations suck the soul out of what was once folksy and unique. i just wish wedding song and flowers were on that recording.
Seussical was supposedly inspired and heartfelt in workshops/out of towns. Now it’s…. What it is.
Not ruined, but I was very surprised, confused, and disappointed seeing &Juliet on broadway for the first time, after having seen it many times during it's pre-broadway run in Toronto. They massively chopped up one particular scene, removed an entire character from that scene, and then had to redo most of the dialogue in order to try and get into the next scene...but the following scene made no sense without the previous scene being as it originally was. I cannot fathom why they did that.
I think Once Upon a One More Time did both--the plot changes were great, but having Briga do that soubrette instead of using her regular voice (which she did in DC) made her almost unwatchable