In general, it is sometimes thought that beings in the intermediate state are maybe particularly open to dedication of merit, due to the particularities of the body and what not that they have at that time. But I think, personally, there is some benefit to dedication of merit for any being, in any situation. There may only be some amount of 'openness' to it, depending on their karmic situation, but I don't think that dedication of merit is limited to bardo beings. FWIW. Best wishes.
Condolences šš»šš»šš»
>Will any merit I dedicate reach and benefit him?
Yes, so you can continue to perform merit dedication, even if he was already reborn it is still beneficial.
The benifit may not be in ways or over time frames that you imagine or conceive but there's is certainly benefit nonetheless.
Best wishes
šš»šš»šš»
I am so sorry for your loss. You can recite the Past Vows of Ksitigarbha Sutra. Ksitigarbha Bodhisattva has been trusted to this world through Shakyamuni Buddha to protect the world and its inhabitants, especially liberating beings from lower realms. As per the sutra, if the mantra is recited 10,000 times then the location and condition of the past relative will be revealed. I tried to aim for 10k yesterday, so Iāll try again today.
Would you like me to try to ask the bodhisattva if I karmically connect enough, on his whereabouts? Suicide is very grave karma, though there is a way to completely eradicate the negative potential through dedicating merit. The merit will be strong enough to ripen quickly. Chanting Ksitigarbhaās mantra is very potent, so Iāll make sure to dedicate merit whilst I do meditation sessions.
Iāll try my best to help your brother. ššš»
Thank you! And it seems a primary doctor put him on an ever changing kaleidoscope of psychotropic meds - esp at the end of his life - like last two months three new prescriptions without likely enough time to wean off the fourth. And he was in Ativan as well for daytime. So although it appears to be suicide I have no doubt his real brain was muddled and confused with all these dangerous meds that probably should have been under the scope of a psychiatrist. So I feel it wasnāt a 100% only his thinking suicide, as four of the five have āincreased risk of suicideā as the first adverse effect per the pharmacy documents we found in his bedroom.
Thank you very much!
Most people who commit suicide end up in the peta realm for potentially extensive periods before taking rebirth. According to classical Buddhism, this is the only realm where beings can receive dedicated merit. Considering this itās a very good idea to dedicate as much merit as possible because itās impossible to say how long heāll be there.Ā
Every time you meditate dedicate the merit of it *before* meditating. Volunteer somewhere, donate to a local temple, give money to someone on the side of the road with a sign, feed stray animals etc. Just be sure to always dedicate the merit to whoever itās going to before the act.
> According to classical Buddhism, this is the only realm where beings can receive dedicated merit.
I don't think that is precisely true, as far as I know. According to the Theravada canon, which presumably is what you mean by 'classical Buddhism', I think the only place it is discussed is the preta realm, as found [here](https://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/kn/pv/pv.1.05.than.html), but there isn't a statement that I know of that says that it does not help in other contexts. As far as I know, the Theravada canon is silent on whether or not dedication of merit could help in other contexts - it does not categorically say it does, or does not, help. It's basically not discussed explicitly.
There is a difference between saying something does not work, and there being no declaration on the matter.
Unless you know of a citation I don't.
The orthodox position of all schools of Theravada that Iām aware of believe merit can only be received from others in the peta realm. Suttas often require elaboration which is why they donāt always mirror the orthodox position.
I'm not personally of the mindset that orthodoxy=truth in all cases without exception. If you know of any citations, either from suttas or commentary, I'd be interested to know.
Iām also not of that mindset, but there are certainly reasons that things are agreed upon.Ā
Considering that the suttas say that the ghosts depend on our offerings, but no other beings do, and that petas are essentially shades of the former beings they were, itās safe to assume the orthodox position is correct. Any other being is an entirely different being. If you go to hell you arenāt a human version of yourself, youāre a completely different being, a hell being. Ghosts can still visit their families and whatnot in certain scenarios. They are sharing the same terrestrial space with humans on a different plane, with only a thin veil between. If your grandpa ends up as a human in China, how would merit or offerings be received on a non-ethereal plane? In the ghost realm an offering of merit can amount to a pile of food or a beautiful home. That doesnāt happen in other realms.
I donāt necessarily agree with your assessment or conclusions. Of note this sutta is specifically talking about offering of foodstuffs basically. Overall dedication of merit is mostly not touched upon.
But for instance itās said that Subhuti was foremost in receiving alms due to his practice of metta prior to alms rounds, and generally the consequence of giving alms to him, or more generally arhats and the like, is quite significant. Why, exactly? Why would it be more significant to give him alms than another?
It doesnāt seem particularly unlikely that it is because somehow he is able to connect with their mind in such a way that supports them. Though that could be discussed more.
Nonetheless, I donāt think this is likely to be a beneficial topic to argue about particularly here, so I wonāt push really. Fwiw. /\
Yeah giving offerings to advanced practitioners has huge payoffs, with potential difference between eons in Niraya and eons in Tavatimsa when offering to an arahant. But this requires intent. The arahant canāt just come up to you and give you that merit. The dana has to be intentional on your part. And unlike in the ghost realm, it requires proper conditions for it to fruit, which could be many lives down the line. You wonāt just pop into a deva realm or have a mansion appear before you.
So considering this absolute fact according to the suttas, that not even an arahant or a Buddha can give you merit, it safe to assume that neither can anyone elseāunless you reside in the peta realm.
How, mechanistically, do you think offerings to arhats are beneficial?
What if you give an offering to a monk and believe that they are an arhat, but in fact they are not? Is there a difference in the consequence between that act and if you truly give an arhat an offering, believing they are an arhat?
What about if you give an offering to a monk, believing them to be an ordinary being, while they are in fact an arhat? Is there a difference in the consequence between that act and if you truly give an ordinary monk an offering, believing they are an ordinary monk?
If I were to be a total fraud, not even a monk, but I convinced you that I was an arhat and you gave me an offering, would you get the same benefit as making an offering to an arhat?
The only intention required is to give. Itās not possible for most people to distinguish an arahant from an ordinary person. And arahants are obviously exceedingly rare anyhow. As for the mechanics, I donāt know. Itās likely similar to asking for the mechanics of kammaāitās ultimately beyond human comprehension. The way I see it is that the closer to nibbana a person is, the more youāre giving directly to the unconditioned. The unconditioned, the absolute, is functioning effortlessly through an arahant. The personality is extinguished and thus offerings go directly to the unconditioned rather than to samsara.Ā
If there is a difference in the consequence of giving the same offering, with the same mindset, to an arhat versus to an ordinary individual, there must be some mechanism for this, and that mechanism must be such that somehow, the arhat is influencing the other being in some way that the ordinary recipient is not. Is that unfair as an assessment?
>Unless you know of a citation I don't.
Here you go: [https://suttacentral.net/an10.177/en/sujato](https://suttacentral.net/an10.177/en/sujato)
Now, if we are talking about practicing mudita when someone shares merit with us, then that is different.
I've heard some Lamas say that the consequences are worse than the preta realm. My own teacher has never said anything on the subject. But he generally never talks about the lower realms, as talking about the hell realms as a scare tactic to behave is often an ineffective way of teaching westerners that only increases neurosis (in my own experience and opinion at least.) Not to say I don't accept them, but mine just doesn't talk about it. I hope this person has a good rebirth though. Surely prayers and dedication on their behalf can help them in the bardo.
Because of the ignorance and delusion of sentient beings that leads to the kleshas and karmic propensities that fuel death and rebirth endlessly until enlightenment.
The Buddha's message is that life is dukkha, dissatisfaction and suffering, in an endless wheel of death and rebirth propelled by ignorance and delusion. And there are even said to be hell realms, some that are full of molten lava and torture, and some that are freezing cold torture. It depends on one's school and teacher how literally this imagery is taken, but the fact is that this cycle of samsara IS horrible. That's why the goal of Buddhism is to help all beings be free of it.
If he's in the realm of "hungry ghosts" then the Buddha says he can benefit from the merit. Otherwise no. Since you can't know keep doing it just in case. Instead of dedicating it just to him dedicate it instead to all your relatives there. The Buddha says it's impossible that you have no relatives in the realm of hungry ghosts. That way your dedication is sure to reach someone and hopefully help them get out of there.
In general, it is sometimes thought that beings in the intermediate state are maybe particularly open to dedication of merit, due to the particularities of the body and what not that they have at that time. But I think, personally, there is some benefit to dedication of merit for any being, in any situation. There may only be some amount of 'openness' to it, depending on their karmic situation, but I don't think that dedication of merit is limited to bardo beings. FWIW. Best wishes.
Thank you
Condolences šš»šš»šš» >Will any merit I dedicate reach and benefit him? Yes, so you can continue to perform merit dedication, even if he was already reborn it is still beneficial. The benifit may not be in ways or over time frames that you imagine or conceive but there's is certainly benefit nonetheless. Best wishes šš»šš»šš»
Thank you
I am so sorry for your loss. You can recite the Past Vows of Ksitigarbha Sutra. Ksitigarbha Bodhisattva has been trusted to this world through Shakyamuni Buddha to protect the world and its inhabitants, especially liberating beings from lower realms. As per the sutra, if the mantra is recited 10,000 times then the location and condition of the past relative will be revealed. I tried to aim for 10k yesterday, so Iāll try again today. Would you like me to try to ask the bodhisattva if I karmically connect enough, on his whereabouts? Suicide is very grave karma, though there is a way to completely eradicate the negative potential through dedicating merit. The merit will be strong enough to ripen quickly. Chanting Ksitigarbhaās mantra is very potent, so Iāll make sure to dedicate merit whilst I do meditation sessions. Iāll try my best to help your brother. ššš»
Thank you! And it seems a primary doctor put him on an ever changing kaleidoscope of psychotropic meds - esp at the end of his life - like last two months three new prescriptions without likely enough time to wean off the fourth. And he was in Ativan as well for daytime. So although it appears to be suicide I have no doubt his real brain was muddled and confused with all these dangerous meds that probably should have been under the scope of a psychiatrist. So I feel it wasnāt a 100% only his thinking suicide, as four of the five have āincreased risk of suicideā as the first adverse effect per the pharmacy documents we found in his bedroom. Thank you very much!
Most people who commit suicide end up in the peta realm for potentially extensive periods before taking rebirth. According to classical Buddhism, this is the only realm where beings can receive dedicated merit. Considering this itās a very good idea to dedicate as much merit as possible because itās impossible to say how long heāll be there.Ā Every time you meditate dedicate the merit of it *before* meditating. Volunteer somewhere, donate to a local temple, give money to someone on the side of the road with a sign, feed stray animals etc. Just be sure to always dedicate the merit to whoever itās going to before the act.
> According to classical Buddhism, this is the only realm where beings can receive dedicated merit. I don't think that is precisely true, as far as I know. According to the Theravada canon, which presumably is what you mean by 'classical Buddhism', I think the only place it is discussed is the preta realm, as found [here](https://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/kn/pv/pv.1.05.than.html), but there isn't a statement that I know of that says that it does not help in other contexts. As far as I know, the Theravada canon is silent on whether or not dedication of merit could help in other contexts - it does not categorically say it does, or does not, help. It's basically not discussed explicitly. There is a difference between saying something does not work, and there being no declaration on the matter. Unless you know of a citation I don't.
The orthodox position of all schools of Theravada that Iām aware of believe merit can only be received from others in the peta realm. Suttas often require elaboration which is why they donāt always mirror the orthodox position.
I'm not personally of the mindset that orthodoxy=truth in all cases without exception. If you know of any citations, either from suttas or commentary, I'd be interested to know.
Iām also not of that mindset, but there are certainly reasons that things are agreed upon.Ā Considering that the suttas say that the ghosts depend on our offerings, but no other beings do, and that petas are essentially shades of the former beings they were, itās safe to assume the orthodox position is correct. Any other being is an entirely different being. If you go to hell you arenāt a human version of yourself, youāre a completely different being, a hell being. Ghosts can still visit their families and whatnot in certain scenarios. They are sharing the same terrestrial space with humans on a different plane, with only a thin veil between. If your grandpa ends up as a human in China, how would merit or offerings be received on a non-ethereal plane? In the ghost realm an offering of merit can amount to a pile of food or a beautiful home. That doesnāt happen in other realms.
I donāt necessarily agree with your assessment or conclusions. Of note this sutta is specifically talking about offering of foodstuffs basically. Overall dedication of merit is mostly not touched upon. But for instance itās said that Subhuti was foremost in receiving alms due to his practice of metta prior to alms rounds, and generally the consequence of giving alms to him, or more generally arhats and the like, is quite significant. Why, exactly? Why would it be more significant to give him alms than another? It doesnāt seem particularly unlikely that it is because somehow he is able to connect with their mind in such a way that supports them. Though that could be discussed more. Nonetheless, I donāt think this is likely to be a beneficial topic to argue about particularly here, so I wonāt push really. Fwiw. /\
Yeah giving offerings to advanced practitioners has huge payoffs, with potential difference between eons in Niraya and eons in Tavatimsa when offering to an arahant. But this requires intent. The arahant canāt just come up to you and give you that merit. The dana has to be intentional on your part. And unlike in the ghost realm, it requires proper conditions for it to fruit, which could be many lives down the line. You wonāt just pop into a deva realm or have a mansion appear before you. So considering this absolute fact according to the suttas, that not even an arahant or a Buddha can give you merit, it safe to assume that neither can anyone elseāunless you reside in the peta realm.
How, mechanistically, do you think offerings to arhats are beneficial? What if you give an offering to a monk and believe that they are an arhat, but in fact they are not? Is there a difference in the consequence between that act and if you truly give an arhat an offering, believing they are an arhat? What about if you give an offering to a monk, believing them to be an ordinary being, while they are in fact an arhat? Is there a difference in the consequence between that act and if you truly give an ordinary monk an offering, believing they are an ordinary monk? If I were to be a total fraud, not even a monk, but I convinced you that I was an arhat and you gave me an offering, would you get the same benefit as making an offering to an arhat?
The only intention required is to give. Itās not possible for most people to distinguish an arahant from an ordinary person. And arahants are obviously exceedingly rare anyhow. As for the mechanics, I donāt know. Itās likely similar to asking for the mechanics of kammaāitās ultimately beyond human comprehension. The way I see it is that the closer to nibbana a person is, the more youāre giving directly to the unconditioned. The unconditioned, the absolute, is functioning effortlessly through an arahant. The personality is extinguished and thus offerings go directly to the unconditioned rather than to samsara.Ā
If there is a difference in the consequence of giving the same offering, with the same mindset, to an arhat versus to an ordinary individual, there must be some mechanism for this, and that mechanism must be such that somehow, the arhat is influencing the other being in some way that the ordinary recipient is not. Is that unfair as an assessment?
>Unless you know of a citation I don't. Here you go: [https://suttacentral.net/an10.177/en/sujato](https://suttacentral.net/an10.177/en/sujato) Now, if we are talking about practicing mudita when someone shares merit with us, then that is different.
Thanks, I canāt properly take a look now but will plan to when I can.
I've heard some Lamas say that the consequences are worse than the preta realm. My own teacher has never said anything on the subject. But he generally never talks about the lower realms, as talking about the hell realms as a scare tactic to behave is often an ineffective way of teaching westerners that only increases neurosis (in my own experience and opinion at least.) Not to say I don't accept them, but mine just doesn't talk about it. I hope this person has a good rebirth though. Surely prayers and dedication on their behalf can help them in the bardo.
Thank you
Can you tell me more about the Peta realm?
Itās the ghost realm where you are essentially a shade of your former self. Severe hunger and thirst prevail.
This is horrible though
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Because of the ignorance and delusion of sentient beings that leads to the kleshas and karmic propensities that fuel death and rebirth endlessly until enlightenment.
The Buddha's message is that life is dukkha, dissatisfaction and suffering, in an endless wheel of death and rebirth propelled by ignorance and delusion. And there are even said to be hell realms, some that are full of molten lava and torture, and some that are freezing cold torture. It depends on one's school and teacher how literally this imagery is taken, but the fact is that this cycle of samsara IS horrible. That's why the goal of Buddhism is to help all beings be free of it.
Can someone explain what dedicating merit is?
It's dedicating the benefit of any virtue from something positive or spiritual one has done to the benefit of someone else or for all beings.
I think it is the positive spiritual outcomes from a good deed or thoughts.
I am so sorry for your loss
Thank you
Ksitigarbha Bodhisattva's Heart mantra is powerful for deceased people.
Thank you
If he can hear you sharing merit, he can get it. Otherwise, you keep what you do.
If he's in the realm of "hungry ghosts" then the Buddha says he can benefit from the merit. Otherwise no. Since you can't know keep doing it just in case. Instead of dedicating it just to him dedicate it instead to all your relatives there. The Buddha says it's impossible that you have no relatives in the realm of hungry ghosts. That way your dedication is sure to reach someone and hopefully help them get out of there.
Thank you