This is satire right? It has to be, how could anyone be this self-unaware.
You are literally admitting that you don't care anything about it and that it could go to zero or whatever based on nothing and then call us braindead. You have been in since November riding the Line Goes Up rocket that you admit could explode at any time and we are brain dead?
Got to be a joke right?
I mean, I know what a ponzi is and the definition doesn't fit, but do you know what a Greater Fools Scheme is because you are absolute in that line and you know it. You are just hoping when the time comes you can hand your bag off quickly enough. Good luck with that.
You’re saying “based on nothing” like someone is sitting at a screen somewhere arbitrarily choosing it’s value. It’s a marketplace, pure and simple. How do you know when a stock is going to dip or go up? You pay attention to the market, and what’s happening with the company. Pay attention to the crypto space and what’s happening (people have been screeching about these ETFs since August) and you’d have known this was probably coming
>You’re saying “based on nothing” like someone is sitting at a screen somewhere arbitrarily choosing it’s value.
Well no, I am not, but I don't think it would matter to you at all if it were like that. Nice attempt at a straw man though.
>How do you know when a stock is going to dip or go up?
Ya don't. Active traders by and large get the shit kicked out of them and most of them are degenerate gamblers in disguise. They only talk about wins and they bet on anything regardless of if it makes any sense.
Since you clearly think a stock and crypto are equivalent you are just too dumb to have a reasonable discussion with.
This may shock you, but stock trading, options trading, futures trading, and “investing” in gold are all pretty stupid ideas as well, unless you like losing money over the longterm.
If you really understood investing, you’d understand why we don’t get FOMO when the number on a speculative asset temporarily goes up.
The hate on Bitcoin isn’t because your account went up on paper. It’s because the technology is bad, the environmental damage is real, and because unsophisticated, financially vulnerable people are very likely going to get hurt long term.
Anyone active in Bitcoin is either an unsophisticated ape, or is hoping to take advantage of people who are (many of whom actually can’t afford to lose what they are gambling). Full stop.
Ok, so you’re just opposed to investment in general for ethical reasons? Haven’t heard this one yet, so tell me more. Unsophisticated apes or not, are they not voluntary participants paying agreed upon prices with access to the same info that you or I have access to?
You’re kinda proving my point. I invest significant portions of my income. You’ve got a lot to learn if you don’t understand the difference between speculation and investing.
As for the ethics: Participating in speculation in most markets, at least in the U.S., requires authorization based on sophistication. Margin trading, options, and futures all require attesting to your income, net worth and experience level before you’re approved. Sure you can lie, but Bitcoin trading doesn’t even have that level of protection.
Plus no one is out shilling that poor people should escape poverty by speculating on oil futures, because that is obviously insane. There are a ton of people shilling speculating on Bitcoin prices though, and for what? So people like you can prey on them if you’re successful? Yes, I find that unethical.
> Pay attention to the crypto space and what’s happening (people have been screeching about these ETFs since August) and you’d have known this was probably coming
If you paid a bit more attention to the crypto space, you'd know *why* it's currently going up, and you'd be in the process of taking your profits as a result. Someone's gotta be left holding the bag though I suppose.
The thing is, it's not like a normal marker because the vast majority of activity on crypto is wash trading and market manipulation. It's precisely because it's an unregulated market these predatory exchanges like to operate with it, because they can just make up trades to push the price wherever they want it to go.
your "investment" fueled by greater fool that buy paolo fake dollar.
in the end, your precious token are only as valuable as baseball card, which instead produced by official, it produced by wasting usable energy
Not all stocks pay dividends, it’s nice that some do but no one ever made real money off dividends who didn’t start with real money. And it’s “ownership” in the same way that you own a Bitcoin. It’s a tokenized representation of something entirely abstract. Take your Amazon stock and go into an Amazon warehouse and tell them you own that little corner over there
Yeah some growth stocks put their profits into growing the company, it's a different investment strategy that you can choose if you'd like.
Nobody buying stocks assumes that they're buying specific assets of that company, I'm not sure what point you're trying to make there.
That all you have is a token of ownership that you can’t do anything with besides hold or sell. If it’s paying you dividends, neat. But that’s hardly relevant if you aren’t investing a large enough sum for the dividends to do more than pay for some of your gas for the month.
There are lots of times the price of some stock has a confusing relationship with the value of a company - no one denies the market can be irrational. But even Gamestop's share price has a relationship with the financial health of the company.
>They only look at the stock price and buy with the only objective of selling higher.
For folks investing for the long term, this is the economics equivalent of saying banks loan money to earn interest. No shit, that's why banks lend money! Long term investing is making your money available as capital, earning a rate of return in exchange for risk.
The vast majority of people don't just go "well look at the price, I'm buying". Yes, recent years has seen an uptick in people with no knowledge dumping their cash into bad investments but don't go thinking that's the norm. The majority of people who invest long term look at the fundamentals of the companies they invest in.
And yeah, there certainly isn't a direct correlation between the assets of a company and the stock price, because there are more factors than that.
stocks arent bought with fake dollar and stocks could have economic growth & impact. if i given 100% of stock of any decent company with condition that i could never sell my stock, i will be happy to receive it because those stock also means i can get my dividend.
same with land, if i given a land i cant sell, i can utilize it to grow a crops.
with gold i can bring to jeweler and make a nice accessory
now what happen if you are given 100% of btc with condition to never sell, what will it do ?
It's not a hypothetical. That's exactly what Elon Musk did with Twitter. He bought the whole thing, and he doesn't need to sell it in order to realise a profit. Not a great example, as he massively overpaid for it and has reduced its value since, but had he not done either of those things, he could have made a success of it
Elon bought a whole company because he was forced to, debt financed it, and has plummeted its value by his own hand. To be fair, it had great utility for him because now he can just ban people who are mean to him and I think he would have paid any price for that
Yeah, he wanted to back put of it be ause he offered way too much. It doesn't matter that debt financed it either. The point is, unlike with Bitcoin, you don't need to sell companies in order to extract value from them. They generate profit.
For whole ass companies yes but that’s hardly relevant to discussion of purchasing stock as part of a portfolio if you’re not a billionaire whose portfolio consists of whole companies
Unless you're looking to become the CEO of the company, or exercise your voting rights, then the proportion of it that you own is irrelevant. If you own 100% of the company, you benefit from 100% of its future profits. If you own 0.001% of a company, you benefit from 0.001% of its future profits. In both cases, that's the same exposure compared to the size of your investment.
Oh my God lol.
Tell me you know nothing about fucking investing without telling me you know nothing.
Stocks are the same as BTC! Hah.
Thank you.
The comedy gold never disappoints.
Bull runs are the best, the amount of brain dead idiots flooding in here is just so entertaining.
>You people call it a “Ponzi scheme” but that literally doesn’t make sense if you know what a Ponzi actually is.
[Yes, bitcoin is a ponzi](https://www.ic.unicamp.br/~stolfi/bitcoin/2021-01-16-yes-ponzi.html)
If you believe this deviates from a traditional ponzi too much to deserve such name, no problem, just call it a nakamoto scheme.
Edit: See also the original article: [Bitcoin is a ponzi](https://ic.unicamp.br/~stolfi/bitcoin/2020-12-31-bitcoin-ponzi.html)
tldr: It's not the name what makes it to be a scam, but the fact that it's a negative-sum game.
Look, level with me: did you come up with "negging no-coiners into being my exit liquidity" yourself, or did you get the idea from a Telegram group that is definitely going to help you realize your gains and isn't going to make you the dump?
Well, then this post is just sad. You have your money and no stake in things going forward, but the thought of people thinking the whole thing is stupid matters enough for you to make a post?
I feel so bad for you.
>Well, then this post is just sad. You have your money and no stake in things going forward, but the thought of people thinking the whole thing is stupid matters enough for you to make a post?
>I feel so bad for you.
This comment defines this sub perfectly lmao
>What? We're supposed to *not* pull the trigger when the fish leap into the barrel?
You're so close! Almost there!
Your logic you use to justify your comments is the same logic that is being used against you. Aka ironic
Congratulations! You were smart enough to exit while you were ahead. You gambled successfully.
Still doesn't negate the fact the whole thing is a ponzi scheme despite you claiming it isn't, a negative sum game, and that there will be much more losers than winners. Also, pretty fucking irresponsible to try to convince people to buy Bitcoin in the 60k range, we all know that is not sustainable and will crash like last time.
......Then why do you sound so angry, bitter, and confused? 🤣 Go enjoy your winnings instead of trying to convince us of essentially an empty argument in and if itself. 😉
Whether it’s $50 or $10000 (it’s somewhere in between) double is double. Since this is the third time I’m watching Bitcoin follow the same price action and it’s following my prediction almost perfectly (it’s actually gone up sooner than I thought) you better believe after I exit it will be a much heftier investment next time
It's not a mistake in tenses, though. You're literally talking about a future event, and you even have a second clause in the sentence describing what will happen after said future event. At the same time, you made another comment describing the event as being in the past. It's extremely sus, especially with how weirdly emotionally involved you still seem to be.
Anyway, your other comments suggest that you don't actually know what you're talking about, and I would strongly suggest exiting if you have not done so already.
Historic price action. It’s followed the same behavior pattern for the third time in a row now.
>you’re bragging about a 4 figure investment doubling
Not really, this was a pure experiment for me to see if I was right about what it would do. Just funny money. But I was right
Not really, this was a funny money “let’s see if I’m right about what it’s going to do with money I don’t care if I lose” investment. But I was pretty damn certain I was right, and I was. This makes the third time it will have done this
> It’s wild seeing you all act like you’re smarter than others for… not making money? I’ve close to doubled my investment since November. Doing basically nothing.
And
> Not really, this was a funny money “let’s see if I’m right about what it’s going to do with money I don’t care if I lose” investment.
So it wasn't "doing basically nothing." By virtue of you putting in minimal amounts of money you could afford to lose you evaluated that there is risk of losing it. That's actually doing something active. Not investing a dollar and keeping it somewhere else is an active choice. Also makes it apparent you were not certain on this investment.
> But I was pretty damn certain I was right, and I was. This makes the third time it will have done this
So do it again when the time is right, put in all of your available money, and double it by "doing basically nothing." And then post receipts. Should be easy.
They’ll probably make nominal gains or hold too long and lose money. But someone buying something I have at an agreed upon price when they have access to all the same information I have is the textbook definition of an ethical transaction
Double your investment? Free money?
Calling Warren buffet now. Telling him he can double his networth in a few months. Its free money.
Some guy on the Internet say so, it must be true.
He could have, if he put it in a few months ago. Not now though. But Warren Buffet is way down at #10 on worlds richest people, there’s some notables higher up the list who do have money in it
To say that it's no more abstract than owning part of a company is blatantly false. If you don't understand that, it's going to be difficult to have a conversation with you.
>To say that it's no more abstract than owning part of a company is blatantly false.
Well... actually it isn't, it's just a very disingenuous comparison when they make it, on account of some details they're omitting: 'owning' some amount of bitcoins is actually *exactly* like owning part of a company, but the company...
* Doesn't make any products.
* Doesn't sell any services.
* Doesn't actually do anything useful at all.
* Definitely has zero revenue stream, apart from people 'investing' in its 'stock'.
* The entirety of the business model is to "pump the stock" by constantly trying to hype everyone about how the value is "definitely going to the moon, rocket emoji, rocket emoji".
Owning bitcoins is exactly like owning shares of a *penny stock SCAM company*, in other words, where the only thing they actually do is trick suckers into buying their stock; you're entitled to nothing - because the company is a scam that doesn't have real assets, that doesn't have real revenues, that doesn't do shit except sell people fundamentally worthless stock in a scam - and there's no rational reason that what you've purchased should therefore ever be worth *more* than nothing, but they're very insistent you're going to get rich any day now.
To the mooooooon, rocket emoji, rocket emoji.
> I don’t give a shit about the supposed “philosophy” of Bitcoin
Still a mark.
> Its no more abstract that a supposed “ownership share” of a business that fluctuates in value
But there's no underlying asset for Bitcoin. It's just what it is. Shares in a business representing ownership of something that makes money and has money. Even gold can be made into jewelry. The only value Bitcoin has in the expectation that someone else will pay more for it later for no reason. Right now that's true because Teather is printing infinite money, but that can't possibly go on forever.
> I know some of you have been around long enough that you could be actually rich if you’d bought in early.
And managed to avoid losing it in MtGOX and FTX and losing our wallet, but also selling in 2021. and I don't speak for everyone, but getting rich by fleecing some rubes for everything they're worth isn't an attractive option to me, even if the alternative is working and getting paid for it.
What do you mean I could be rich? I am rich enough not investing into stuff using Reddit of all places as my guide. Also rich person is not who has a lot of money, but happiness and laughter, which I get plenty reading this sub.
You are aware you can mute subreddits right? Oh, you actually believe in crypto so maybe you are too stupid to realize that. If you don’t like this sub hit mute instead of embarrassing yourself like this next time.
Ahhh, another shortsighted moron who has never actually thought through anything in their life coming to tell us how dumb we all are for not participating in a system that we find morally objectionable and that, to actually realize gains, requires taking money from someone else.
Must be a Thursday.
Another day, another brigader. If you're so confident in your "investment", take your money and enjoy it. No idea why someone who was happy and confident in their decision would come here to try to get ?validation? from people who don't believe in it. So weird. Also, it's "seen" not "see".
Shareholders finance and get profit participation in enterprises that through operations arbitrage price differences between goods/services in input and output markets to create value for customers. You can make money without needing to recruit new people into buying your share.
Whereas Bitcoin is a gambling token whose price appreciation largely relies on selling fairy tales to the financially desperate. It provides no value to external customers and has no real use case beyond skirting financial regulations.
By conning the economically illiterate into buying this absurd token as a magical solution to wealth inequality all you're doing is putting everyone at risk of civil unrest. Just look into the collapse of pyramid/ponzi schemes in Egypt (late 1980s), Albania (1997), Colombia (2008), US — Madoff (2008), China — Shanxinhui (2017). You get riots and a sharp increase in suicide rates.
It's gross how you slimy motherfuckers are willing to throw people under a bus just to make a buck.
We call it a ponzi scheme because it is in fact a ponzi scheme. It's actually a headless, decentralized ponzi scheme if you want to be specific but the fundamentals are the same. People who buy in own nothing and they can only gain value by people buying in later at a higher price.
Because it's decentralized and headless it results in the victims (that's you) generating the hype to encourage more people to buy in, which is why you become incredibly hostile when people point out that it's a scam and it's why you're so emotionally invested in it.
Note that your emotional investment is not normal. I own plenty of stocks, but not once have I sat around screaming at someone who thought it was a bad stock how wrong they are and how it's going to the moon, because it's just a stock.
And just so you know plenty of ponzi scheme victims were given statements showing they were earning money. Until you actually cash out you have earned nothing, and conveniently you're all conditioned to mock and deride anyone that cashes out.
To be fair what you described and what most crypto's are is based on *The Greater Fool Theory*.
Ponzi Scheme is just a throwaway term people use without understanding the actual difference between the two and how most crypto's work.
The greater fool theory usually implies an asset with intrinsic value still exists but it's just overpriced. In a ponzi scheme you don't own anything beyond the marker or certificate of your share of ownership. Additionally, there's a lot of manipulation of the price to drive it up without any "greater fools" using wash trading and token printing (see USDT) to create the illusion of profits being derived from market demand when they are not.
All cryptos are ponzi schemes.
>Because it's a sub for salty people who got wrecked.
I would *love* for you to explain to me how that would even be possible, how one can "get wrecked" by... never even so much as once having thought about, in passing, participating in any aspect of the crypto market *at all*.
I cannot put into words how hard I'm going to laugh at you, if your answer to me pointing out you're projecting a fictitious backstory onto us to explain our actions is just to pivot to some Austrian-school malarkey about monetary debasement.
Unlike you clowns, we don't need to tell fibs about why we're here, typing the things we type: we fucking ***mean them*** (or we're obviously joking, since we do that too).
Everybody has to have a hobby I suppose. You'd probably be a bit less dour if you'd spent your time investing in Bitcoin rather than complaining about it. Perhaps you'd even be sitting on some fat stacks... like me!
>You'd probably be a bit less dour if you'd spent your time investing in Bitcoin rather than complaining about it.
Ha ha ha ha ha. Oh wait, you were serious: let me laugh *harder*.
# Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha!!
Oh *man* is that funny; my life would be all sunshine and roses if only I signed my ass up for your "MLM for him" and spent all my time online obsessing over charts and preaching to passing strangers about "only 21 million" and "hardest money ever invented", because you clowns - whose words we can just see when you type them onto the public internet dude, as well as how you describe your mental states as you're doing that - are the epitome of "healthy and well-adjusted".
Definitely *not* a bunch of manic, constantly depressed participants in spaces that have on multiple occasions felt the necessity to pin the number of the suicide crisis hotline to the top, lying to themselves and others about how great they're doing. No sirree.
Meanwhile here I am, not ever even slightly caring what the charts say, having a blast, with my fellow no-coiners who upset you guys so very much because we refuse to buy the bags you're holding. Can't imagine why that might be.
>Perhaps you'd even be sitting on some fat stacks... like me!
Press X to ***doubt***.
You clowns lie about the state of your finances as readily as most people breathe - often in ways that are comically obviously flagrant lies, because you don't bother scrubbing the contradictions from your profiles - so I'm not about to accept that any of you claiming to be rich would be judged as such by any sane or "not lying through one's teeth" metric...
...but even if you were, I simply do not care: the fact that ***you*** care, that I don't want to purchase bitcoins, that I will tell you with the utmost sincerity that I will NEVER purchase them, and this makes you and your fellow clowns try to convince me I need to abandon that stance...
... well that tells me everything I'd ever need to know, if I didn't already know far and away more about the ins and outs of your ridiculous ouroboros of grift than I'd ever need to know to steer clear of it: **it's clearly a scam**.
Libertarian types on the internet are about the least empathetic, least altruistic people alive, so you're not fooling anyone if you try to claim you only have our best interests at heart - your credo is "fuck you, got mine" dude, we don't believe you care about us or anyone but yourselves - which leaves one reason for the rabid hype, one fucking reason for the constant, unasked for, manifestly unwelcome proselytizing to which our answer is a resounding ***fuck off*** but then you KEEP doing it... and that's because irrational hype is all you actually have, trying to instill FOMO or goad people into angrily betting against you - and then buying your bags because that's how opening short positions works - is the entire approach, when confronted by a no-coiner resolute in their convictions to remain one, because your product is just a SCAM.
And deep, deep down, all of you know that: you know we're right, that's why you come here, trying to argue with us into giving your ouroboros of greed, grift, and abject stupidity any portion of our actual money, because you think that getting us to do that will make us wrong. We're just always going to have the same answer to that... and it's no, **never**, ***fuck off***.
This is satire right? It has to be, how could anyone be this self-unaware. You are literally admitting that you don't care anything about it and that it could go to zero or whatever based on nothing and then call us braindead. You have been in since November riding the Line Goes Up rocket that you admit could explode at any time and we are brain dead? Got to be a joke right? I mean, I know what a ponzi is and the definition doesn't fit, but do you know what a Greater Fools Scheme is because you are absolute in that line and you know it. You are just hoping when the time comes you can hand your bag off quickly enough. Good luck with that.
You’re saying “based on nothing” like someone is sitting at a screen somewhere arbitrarily choosing it’s value. It’s a marketplace, pure and simple. How do you know when a stock is going to dip or go up? You pay attention to the market, and what’s happening with the company. Pay attention to the crypto space and what’s happening (people have been screeching about these ETFs since August) and you’d have known this was probably coming
>You’re saying “based on nothing” like someone is sitting at a screen somewhere arbitrarily choosing it’s value. Well no, I am not, but I don't think it would matter to you at all if it were like that. Nice attempt at a straw man though. >How do you know when a stock is going to dip or go up? Ya don't. Active traders by and large get the shit kicked out of them and most of them are degenerate gamblers in disguise. They only talk about wins and they bet on anything regardless of if it makes any sense. Since you clearly think a stock and crypto are equivalent you are just too dumb to have a reasonable discussion with.
This may shock you, but stock trading, options trading, futures trading, and “investing” in gold are all pretty stupid ideas as well, unless you like losing money over the longterm. If you really understood investing, you’d understand why we don’t get FOMO when the number on a speculative asset temporarily goes up. The hate on Bitcoin isn’t because your account went up on paper. It’s because the technology is bad, the environmental damage is real, and because unsophisticated, financially vulnerable people are very likely going to get hurt long term. Anyone active in Bitcoin is either an unsophisticated ape, or is hoping to take advantage of people who are (many of whom actually can’t afford to lose what they are gambling). Full stop.
Ok, so you’re just opposed to investment in general for ethical reasons? Haven’t heard this one yet, so tell me more. Unsophisticated apes or not, are they not voluntary participants paying agreed upon prices with access to the same info that you or I have access to?
You need to read what they posted again.
You’re kinda proving my point. I invest significant portions of my income. You’ve got a lot to learn if you don’t understand the difference between speculation and investing. As for the ethics: Participating in speculation in most markets, at least in the U.S., requires authorization based on sophistication. Margin trading, options, and futures all require attesting to your income, net worth and experience level before you’re approved. Sure you can lie, but Bitcoin trading doesn’t even have that level of protection. Plus no one is out shilling that poor people should escape poverty by speculating on oil futures, because that is obviously insane. There are a ton of people shilling speculating on Bitcoin prices though, and for what? So people like you can prey on them if you’re successful? Yes, I find that unethical.
> Pay attention to the crypto space and what’s happening (people have been screeching about these ETFs since August) and you’d have known this was probably coming If you paid a bit more attention to the crypto space, you'd know *why* it's currently going up, and you'd be in the process of taking your profits as a result. Someone's gotta be left holding the bag though I suppose.
The thing is, it's not like a normal marker because the vast majority of activity on crypto is wash trading and market manipulation. It's precisely because it's an unregulated market these predatory exchanges like to operate with it, because they can just make up trades to push the price wherever they want it to go.
your "investment" fueled by greater fool that buy paolo fake dollar. in the end, your precious token are only as valuable as baseball card, which instead produced by official, it produced by wasting usable energy
This is also exactly how stocks work, are you just opposed to any financial instruments?
Stocks are ownership in companies that make money. Stocks can also pay out dividends from the profits they make and isn't all about "number go up"
Not all stocks pay dividends, it’s nice that some do but no one ever made real money off dividends who didn’t start with real money. And it’s “ownership” in the same way that you own a Bitcoin. It’s a tokenized representation of something entirely abstract. Take your Amazon stock and go into an Amazon warehouse and tell them you own that little corner over there
Yeah some growth stocks put their profits into growing the company, it's a different investment strategy that you can choose if you'd like. Nobody buying stocks assumes that they're buying specific assets of that company, I'm not sure what point you're trying to make there.
That all you have is a token of ownership that you can’t do anything with besides hold or sell. If it’s paying you dividends, neat. But that’s hardly relevant if you aren’t investing a large enough sum for the dividends to do more than pay for some of your gas for the month.
Many stocks confer voting rights in the company.
It doesn't matter if stocks pay dividends or not. You still own the profits.
[удалено]
There are lots of times the price of some stock has a confusing relationship with the value of a company - no one denies the market can be irrational. But even Gamestop's share price has a relationship with the financial health of the company. >They only look at the stock price and buy with the only objective of selling higher. For folks investing for the long term, this is the economics equivalent of saying banks loan money to earn interest. No shit, that's why banks lend money! Long term investing is making your money available as capital, earning a rate of return in exchange for risk.
The vast majority of people don't just go "well look at the price, I'm buying". Yes, recent years has seen an uptick in people with no knowledge dumping their cash into bad investments but don't go thinking that's the norm. The majority of people who invest long term look at the fundamentals of the companies they invest in. And yeah, there certainly isn't a direct correlation between the assets of a company and the stock price, because there are more factors than that.
stocks arent bought with fake dollar and stocks could have economic growth & impact. if i given 100% of stock of any decent company with condition that i could never sell my stock, i will be happy to receive it because those stock also means i can get my dividend. same with land, if i given a land i cant sell, i can utilize it to grow a crops. with gold i can bring to jeweler and make a nice accessory now what happen if you are given 100% of btc with condition to never sell, what will it do ?
Does the fact that you had to resort to an entirely implausible hypothetical to prove your point not set off a single alarm bell in your brain?
It's not a hypothetical. That's exactly what Elon Musk did with Twitter. He bought the whole thing, and he doesn't need to sell it in order to realise a profit. Not a great example, as he massively overpaid for it and has reduced its value since, but had he not done either of those things, he could have made a success of it
Elon bought a whole company because he was forced to, debt financed it, and has plummeted its value by his own hand. To be fair, it had great utility for him because now he can just ban people who are mean to him and I think he would have paid any price for that
Yeah, he wanted to back put of it be ause he offered way too much. It doesn't matter that debt financed it either. The point is, unlike with Bitcoin, you don't need to sell companies in order to extract value from them. They generate profit.
For whole ass companies yes but that’s hardly relevant to discussion of purchasing stock as part of a portfolio if you’re not a billionaire whose portfolio consists of whole companies
Unless you're looking to become the CEO of the company, or exercise your voting rights, then the proportion of it that you own is irrelevant. If you own 100% of the company, you benefit from 100% of its future profits. If you own 0.001% of a company, you benefit from 0.001% of its future profits. In both cases, that's the same exposure compared to the size of your investment.
I think that’s an oversimplification of the whole thing but you aren’t wrong
Oh my God lol. Tell me you know nothing about fucking investing without telling me you know nothing. Stocks are the same as BTC! Hah. Thank you. The comedy gold never disappoints. Bull runs are the best, the amount of brain dead idiots flooding in here is just so entertaining.
They are not the same at all.
God, butt bro's are just painfully stupid
>You people call it a “Ponzi scheme” but that literally doesn’t make sense if you know what a Ponzi actually is. [Yes, bitcoin is a ponzi](https://www.ic.unicamp.br/~stolfi/bitcoin/2021-01-16-yes-ponzi.html) If you believe this deviates from a traditional ponzi too much to deserve such name, no problem, just call it a nakamoto scheme. Edit: See also the original article: [Bitcoin is a ponzi](https://ic.unicamp.br/~stolfi/bitcoin/2020-12-31-bitcoin-ponzi.html) tldr: It's not the name what makes it to be a scam, but the fact that it's a negative-sum game.
Look, level with me: did you come up with "negging no-coiners into being my exit liquidity" yourself, or did you get the idea from a Telegram group that is definitely going to help you realize your gains and isn't going to make you the dump?
Bitcoin is not in need of any exit liquidity lol
Oh? So, you've already cashed out?
Correct
Well, then this post is just sad. You have your money and no stake in things going forward, but the thought of people thinking the whole thing is stupid matters enough for you to make a post? I feel so bad for you.
>Well, then this post is just sad. You have your money and no stake in things going forward, but the thought of people thinking the whole thing is stupid matters enough for you to make a post? >I feel so bad for you. This comment defines this sub perfectly lmao
That we pity you? Yeah, that seems about right. Have a nice life. I hope money can buy you a thicker skin!
>Have a nice life. I hope money can buy you a thicker skin! Irony is never lost in this sub
What? We're supposed to *not* pull the trigger when the fish leap into the barrel?
>What? We're supposed to *not* pull the trigger when the fish leap into the barrel? You're so close! Almost there! Your logic you use to justify your comments is the same logic that is being used against you. Aka ironic
Prove it coward
Congratulations! You were smart enough to exit while you were ahead. You gambled successfully. Still doesn't negate the fact the whole thing is a ponzi scheme despite you claiming it isn't, a negative sum game, and that there will be much more losers than winners. Also, pretty fucking irresponsible to try to convince people to buy Bitcoin in the 60k range, we all know that is not sustainable and will crash like last time.
I didn’t tell anyone to buy it, and said twice throughout this thread that this is not the time to buy it.
So if your aim is not to convince people to buy it, then is your aim just to insult people then? That's pathetic dude.
......Then why do you sound so angry, bitter, and confused? 🤣 Go enjoy your winnings instead of trying to convince us of essentially an empty argument in and if itself. 😉
Then how do you expect to profit from it?
? By selling it? I’m not saying “Bitcoin can function without exit liquidity” I’m saying “it is not currently in need of more”
Ah OK, I misunderstood what you meant.
Yeah it’s nice to double 50$ investment
Whether it’s $50 or $10000 (it’s somewhere in between) double is double. Since this is the third time I’m watching Bitcoin follow the same price action and it’s following my prediction almost perfectly (it’s actually gone up sooner than I thought) you better believe after I exit it will be a much heftier investment next time
"after I exit", but in another comment, to avoid looking like an idiot, you claim you've already exited. It's all looking a bit sus.
I just exited this morning lol it’s not that deep. The exit is what prompted this post, and a mistake in tenses doesn’t negate any of the facts
It's not a mistake in tenses, though. You're literally talking about a future event, and you even have a second clause in the sentence describing what will happen after said future event. At the same time, you made another comment describing the event as being in the past. It's extremely sus, especially with how weirdly emotionally involved you still seem to be. Anyway, your other comments suggest that you don't actually know what you're talking about, and I would strongly suggest exiting if you have not done so already.
Post the $ amount you profited after fees.
And taxes. Only certainties in life are death and taxes.
Why did you exit? I checked your posts history and I can clearly see that you were sure bitcoin go to 85k
Because I set a target price to exit and I stuck with it. FOMO is the only reason I’d change my target exit and that’s a bad reason.
You're bragging about a 4 figure investmet doubling? Give me a fucking break. And also, your prediction of it going up is based on....what, exactly?
Historic price action. It’s followed the same behavior pattern for the third time in a row now. >you’re bragging about a 4 figure investment doubling Not really, this was a pure experiment for me to see if I was right about what it would do. Just funny money. But I was right
Historic price action on a purely speculative market? You need to read a book my friend.
I mean, you can look at a chart and see the historic price action. It’s not hidden.
Dude, you’re here to brag about your whopping **4 figure** investment? lmao
Not really, this was a funny money “let’s see if I’m right about what it’s going to do with money I don’t care if I lose” investment. But I was pretty damn certain I was right, and I was. This makes the third time it will have done this
> It’s wild seeing you all act like you’re smarter than others for… not making money? I’ve close to doubled my investment since November. Doing basically nothing. And > Not really, this was a funny money “let’s see if I’m right about what it’s going to do with money I don’t care if I lose” investment. So it wasn't "doing basically nothing." By virtue of you putting in minimal amounts of money you could afford to lose you evaluated that there is risk of losing it. That's actually doing something active. Not investing a dollar and keeping it somewhere else is an active choice. Also makes it apparent you were not certain on this investment. > But I was pretty damn certain I was right, and I was. This makes the third time it will have done this So do it again when the time is right, put in all of your available money, and double it by "doing basically nothing." And then post receipts. Should be easy.
And what happens to the people you sell it to when you exit?
They’ll probably make nominal gains or hold too long and lose money. But someone buying something I have at an agreed upon price when they have access to all the same information I have is the textbook definition of an ethical transaction
Double your investment? Free money? Calling Warren buffet now. Telling him he can double his networth in a few months. Its free money. Some guy on the Internet say so, it must be true.
He could have, if he put it in a few months ago. Not now though. But Warren Buffet is way down at #10 on worlds richest people, there’s some notables higher up the list who do have money in it
So it's not going up anymore? Wonder what your "investment" amount was
It probably will go up a bit more, but I set an exit point when I invested. I’m perfectly happy with doubling my money in 3 months
So how much money? Make us envious since you’re here bragging
Cool bro. This means the same to me as some gambling addict bragging about how they doubled their money from betting on black at the roulette table.
This isn't fractional ownership of a company. It's fractional ownership of nothing.
*yawn*
To say that it's no more abstract than owning part of a company is blatantly false. If you don't understand that, it's going to be difficult to have a conversation with you.
>To say that it's no more abstract than owning part of a company is blatantly false. Well... actually it isn't, it's just a very disingenuous comparison when they make it, on account of some details they're omitting: 'owning' some amount of bitcoins is actually *exactly* like owning part of a company, but the company... * Doesn't make any products. * Doesn't sell any services. * Doesn't actually do anything useful at all. * Definitely has zero revenue stream, apart from people 'investing' in its 'stock'. * The entirety of the business model is to "pump the stock" by constantly trying to hype everyone about how the value is "definitely going to the moon, rocket emoji, rocket emoji". Owning bitcoins is exactly like owning shares of a *penny stock SCAM company*, in other words, where the only thing they actually do is trick suckers into buying their stock; you're entitled to nothing - because the company is a scam that doesn't have real assets, that doesn't have real revenues, that doesn't do shit except sell people fundamentally worthless stock in a scam - and there's no rational reason that what you've purchased should therefore ever be worth *more* than nothing, but they're very insistent you're going to get rich any day now. To the mooooooon, rocket emoji, rocket emoji.
You have no idea what cryptocurrency is. You’re being played.
Is it that hard to understand some people aren't gambling addicts like you?
> I don’t give a shit about the supposed “philosophy” of Bitcoin Still a mark. > Its no more abstract that a supposed “ownership share” of a business that fluctuates in value But there's no underlying asset for Bitcoin. It's just what it is. Shares in a business representing ownership of something that makes money and has money. Even gold can be made into jewelry. The only value Bitcoin has in the expectation that someone else will pay more for it later for no reason. Right now that's true because Teather is printing infinite money, but that can't possibly go on forever. > I know some of you have been around long enough that you could be actually rich if you’d bought in early. And managed to avoid losing it in MtGOX and FTX and losing our wallet, but also selling in 2021. and I don't speak for everyone, but getting rich by fleecing some rubes for everything they're worth isn't an attractive option to me, even if the alternative is working and getting paid for it.
What do you mean I could be rich? I am rich enough not investing into stuff using Reddit of all places as my guide. Also rich person is not who has a lot of money, but happiness and laughter, which I get plenty reading this sub.
You are aware you can mute subreddits right? Oh, you actually believe in crypto so maybe you are too stupid to realize that. If you don’t like this sub hit mute instead of embarrassing yourself like this next time.
Ahhh, another shortsighted moron who has never actually thought through anything in their life coming to tell us how dumb we all are for not participating in a system that we find morally objectionable and that, to actually realize gains, requires taking money from someone else. Must be a Thursday.
Yet another stupid son of a bitch gen z summer child…
Another day, another brigader. If you're so confident in your "investment", take your money and enjoy it. No idea why someone who was happy and confident in their decision would come here to try to get ?validation? from people who don't believe in it. So weird. Also, it's "seen" not "see".
Please, go broke and disappear.
If you were really confident about Bitcoin, you wouldn't be talking to us.
In hindsight, your mom's decision to not abort was lamentable.
Agreed
nice meltdown
workable deer smell ring friendly practice obtainable books crawl joke *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Shareholders finance and get profit participation in enterprises that through operations arbitrage price differences between goods/services in input and output markets to create value for customers. You can make money without needing to recruit new people into buying your share. Whereas Bitcoin is a gambling token whose price appreciation largely relies on selling fairy tales to the financially desperate. It provides no value to external customers and has no real use case beyond skirting financial regulations. By conning the economically illiterate into buying this absurd token as a magical solution to wealth inequality all you're doing is putting everyone at risk of civil unrest. Just look into the collapse of pyramid/ponzi schemes in Egypt (late 1980s), Albania (1997), Colombia (2008), US — Madoff (2008), China — Shanxinhui (2017). You get riots and a sharp increase in suicide rates. It's gross how you slimy motherfuckers are willing to throw people under a bus just to make a buck.
Damn Egypt, the cradle of pyramid schemes for last 4000 years!
We call it a ponzi scheme because it is in fact a ponzi scheme. It's actually a headless, decentralized ponzi scheme if you want to be specific but the fundamentals are the same. People who buy in own nothing and they can only gain value by people buying in later at a higher price. Because it's decentralized and headless it results in the victims (that's you) generating the hype to encourage more people to buy in, which is why you become incredibly hostile when people point out that it's a scam and it's why you're so emotionally invested in it. Note that your emotional investment is not normal. I own plenty of stocks, but not once have I sat around screaming at someone who thought it was a bad stock how wrong they are and how it's going to the moon, because it's just a stock. And just so you know plenty of ponzi scheme victims were given statements showing they were earning money. Until you actually cash out you have earned nothing, and conveniently you're all conditioned to mock and deride anyone that cashes out.
To be fair what you described and what most crypto's are is based on *The Greater Fool Theory*. Ponzi Scheme is just a throwaway term people use without understanding the actual difference between the two and how most crypto's work.
The greater fool theory usually implies an asset with intrinsic value still exists but it's just overpriced. In a ponzi scheme you don't own anything beyond the marker or certificate of your share of ownership. Additionally, there's a lot of manipulation of the price to drive it up without any "greater fools" using wash trading and token printing (see USDT) to create the illusion of profits being derived from market demand when they are not. All cryptos are ponzi schemes.
Let them, I enjoy reading their posts before going to sleep.
Because it's a sub for salty people who got wrecked.
>Because it's a sub for salty people who got wrecked. I would *love* for you to explain to me how that would even be possible, how one can "get wrecked" by... never even so much as once having thought about, in passing, participating in any aspect of the crypto market *at all*. I cannot put into words how hard I'm going to laugh at you, if your answer to me pointing out you're projecting a fictitious backstory onto us to explain our actions is just to pivot to some Austrian-school malarkey about monetary debasement. Unlike you clowns, we don't need to tell fibs about why we're here, typing the things we type: we fucking ***mean them*** (or we're obviously joking, since we do that too).
Everybody has to have a hobby I suppose. You'd probably be a bit less dour if you'd spent your time investing in Bitcoin rather than complaining about it. Perhaps you'd even be sitting on some fat stacks... like me!
>You'd probably be a bit less dour if you'd spent your time investing in Bitcoin rather than complaining about it. Ha ha ha ha ha. Oh wait, you were serious: let me laugh *harder*. # Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha!! Oh *man* is that funny; my life would be all sunshine and roses if only I signed my ass up for your "MLM for him" and spent all my time online obsessing over charts and preaching to passing strangers about "only 21 million" and "hardest money ever invented", because you clowns - whose words we can just see when you type them onto the public internet dude, as well as how you describe your mental states as you're doing that - are the epitome of "healthy and well-adjusted". Definitely *not* a bunch of manic, constantly depressed participants in spaces that have on multiple occasions felt the necessity to pin the number of the suicide crisis hotline to the top, lying to themselves and others about how great they're doing. No sirree. Meanwhile here I am, not ever even slightly caring what the charts say, having a blast, with my fellow no-coiners who upset you guys so very much because we refuse to buy the bags you're holding. Can't imagine why that might be. >Perhaps you'd even be sitting on some fat stacks... like me! Press X to ***doubt***. You clowns lie about the state of your finances as readily as most people breathe - often in ways that are comically obviously flagrant lies, because you don't bother scrubbing the contradictions from your profiles - so I'm not about to accept that any of you claiming to be rich would be judged as such by any sane or "not lying through one's teeth" metric... ...but even if you were, I simply do not care: the fact that ***you*** care, that I don't want to purchase bitcoins, that I will tell you with the utmost sincerity that I will NEVER purchase them, and this makes you and your fellow clowns try to convince me I need to abandon that stance... ... well that tells me everything I'd ever need to know, if I didn't already know far and away more about the ins and outs of your ridiculous ouroboros of grift than I'd ever need to know to steer clear of it: **it's clearly a scam**. Libertarian types on the internet are about the least empathetic, least altruistic people alive, so you're not fooling anyone if you try to claim you only have our best interests at heart - your credo is "fuck you, got mine" dude, we don't believe you care about us or anyone but yourselves - which leaves one reason for the rabid hype, one fucking reason for the constant, unasked for, manifestly unwelcome proselytizing to which our answer is a resounding ***fuck off*** but then you KEEP doing it... and that's because irrational hype is all you actually have, trying to instill FOMO or goad people into angrily betting against you - and then buying your bags because that's how opening short positions works - is the entire approach, when confronted by a no-coiner resolute in their convictions to remain one, because your product is just a SCAM. And deep, deep down, all of you know that: you know we're right, that's why you come here, trying to argue with us into giving your ouroboros of greed, grift, and abject stupidity any portion of our actual money, because you think that getting us to do that will make us wrong. We're just always going to have the same answer to that... and it's no, **never**, ***fuck off***.
seen*
This type of post ends soon. As soon as people start going red. You are the most braindead person alive.