Feel like it depends on your personal goals. If it’s to go to the NFL then I don’t think it matters because if you’re truly good enough they’ll find you. If it’s to get the best education then I’d assume you’d have a better chance getting that at a D2 school?
I have the same thoughts. Though with professional football and semi-pro expanding it’ll be interesting to see how many guys from smaller schools start showing up.
For an NFL team to dip outside the established talent pool (D1), a player has to be truly incredible or they need an ultra-specific position (like a long snapper).
It's just usually not worth the risk.
It really depends, JuCo was/is the traditional route, but that’s more due to the fact that a lot of those guys have D1 talent but couldn’t get offers due to poor grades, behavioral concerns, etc. and need a place where they can get things sorted out within a year or so.
If you have the grades, and the measurables/skill level to move up but just haven’t been noticed, you should go to the school that offers you the most playing time immediately so you can get film to send to bigger programs.
If you can play, teams will find you, in general though if you’re not on anyone’s radar, it’s going to be hard to move up. You’re probably better off choosing the school that offers you the best degree. Doesn’t mean it’s impossible to develop and climb your way up, but the chances are slim and you need a backup plan.
Edit: would add that if money isn’t a concern, and you really think you can play at the D1 level, talk with the coaching staffs of bigger schools and see if they have a walk on spot for you. Won’t be easy to move up, but being in the program and proving yourself in practice is probably the fastest route.
My niece had full scholarship offers for softball from schools that are regularly in the CWS, but her Dad (a former junior college football player, offered by Fresno) steered her right. College is meant to set you up for the future and if pro sports isn't a possibility, find the place that will be what you need. She went to a smaller program that meant less travel and less off-season practice.
Steered her right? You do know that you can still get a great education and compete at a high level, right? Often elite programs have tutoring and their athletes get to sleet their classes first to make sure they are able to graduate on time.
If the athlete wants to a get a degree in a good sport, they will. If the athlete themselves decides they are just their to play a sport, that is up to them.
Another thing didn’t mention is that coming out of HS the guys I mentioned were considered undersized for their position. Tobias was 5-8 at best and out of HS was maybe 170 and had avg speed, (I think like mid/low 4.5’s) He had the physique of a running back, he worked to something like a 4.47/8 at a combine and was 185. Parker’s something like 6-6, but 250, but got stronger and out good weight on. By the time we was a Hoosier he was 315.
Tell your players this:
If they love football, go to where they'll play and not the best possible team they can make.
So many dudes chase the prestige of D1 and they forget why they played in the first place. I was a four year D3 athlete. Captain. All conference. Played all four years. I watched teammates transfer up to D1 programs after a good year just to ride pine. Made no fucking sense to me. I didn't play at the highest level, but I played at a high level that 95% of the population can't compete at.
It is so rare in todays game with all the money being thrown at scouting that a guy slips through the cracks who could be a D1 starter. Reality is if they aren't getting looks, there's a reason. D3 is laced with dudes who didn't get looks lol. They'll fit right in.
You could argue tho there’s more value in being part of a D1 program compared to a D3 one when it comes to what you want to do after college in some cases.
0 people care about your college athletics unless you're staying in sports. And even then, playing D3 has not stopped anyone from a successful coaching career.
I’m not disparaging D3 athletics. Just saying being part of a D1 program with a major brand can give you access to a lot connections and employment opportunities that might entice someone over playing at the D3 level
Universally perhaps not but it’s amazing what sort of leg up former P5 football alums can have in their cities/towns if they play their cards right. In Austin, for instance there are a lot of walk-ons and bench guys who absolutely lean on that “I was a Longhorn” to help their real estate or sales careers and/or general networking. It’s a conversation starter, you make other alumni excited, etc. I personally know a former third string QB at Baylor (won’t name for obvious reasons) who openly jokes that his academics weren’t good enough to land the career he has now but that he was able to get it started because some Baylor alum gave him a chance.
Not true. If you go to a P5 school you can bet you'd have a good shot at getting a decent job working for a booster after graduation. Heck it even helps just throwing that out in an interview for any other job. The bigger the brand the better obviously.
D2 doesn’t have as high of standards, but it’s also dependent on the school. Where I went the lowest sat score was something like 890, the same conference may have a school where you need at least 950 or higher to have a chance of getting in.
A number of juco players are there because they basically flunked out at their D1 university. That, or they got into trouble at their university with behavior issue or drugs. I would imagine a lot of the best players at juco started at a university and are trying to fix their academic/behavior issues and get back to D1.
A lot of diversity at the D2 level with Academics. Look at the RMAC for example. You've got schools like Colorado School of Mines if you still want very high academics and a good athletic challenge. Whatever the highest level you can play and get significant playing time, that is probably the level for you. But for any college kid, I would say get the academic fit right first--that is going to have the longer payoff.
A lot of JUCOs in Mississippi are basically prep
schools for various SEC programs-Ole Miss, MSU, Bama, etc will essentially come to an understanding with a recruit in HS-go to JUCO X, get the grades straight, come to Starkville or whatever. The staff at the JUCOs are aware of these arrangements, so they might influence the recruit to keep to the arrangement if other schools come sniffing around.
It's so much different today than it was 20+ years ago. If you are good and have the physical traits to play at the next level, you are going to be found. I don't think it matters as much now as it did.
The other factor is that Prop 48 isn't really a thing anymore and that was a big driver for strong players going juco back in the day.
It's situational as hell and it's really depending on the sport, position and so forth. There aren't many football Jucos on the east coast, so for a kid wanting to stay home it means going to the south or midwest (or california, but those teams only play themselves) and it's really subjective. It's not about the division, it's about getting a chance to play, whether you'll develop and finding a school that meets your goals.
D3 schools don't offer athletic scholarships, so it doesn't really make sense to pay to play someplace unless you're getting an academic aid package, qualify for financial aid and/or it's a program/school you really want to attend. Juco on the other hand could be dangerous if you end up someplace, get hurt and now you're done playing and still have to transfer.
The academics and culture fit of the situation has to factor into these decisions, instead of "signing" to play someplace just so you can say you were on scholarship. As for transfers, depends on where you started and how someone was slated. Comparing the landscape of right now to even 5 years ago is a bit futile, because everything is just so different.
A D2 athlete should be looking at what school they want to get a degree from, not where they should play football. Even D2 schools require a huge time investment to play ball, and too many student athletes end up with sub-par degrees as a result. That KINES or Sports Marketing degree will probably not make you very employable.
As others have said it's situational but I would still lean toward juco strictly from an athletic perspective. Those teams are scouted somewhat heavily with so many of them having FBS level talent and I would think it's easier to get snaps right away with the constant turnover and less entrenched depth charts.
I honestly agree, however at the same time though if you can make a JuCo team you can more then Likely make a game day D2 roster, you have a better chance of getting financial aid, all you need is a 2.0 to stay on the team, and sincerely the talent level isn’t too different from the majority of FCS. Especially the top half, to third of d2 teams
JUCOs can give out more scholarships than D2. D2 only allows 36 while jucos get 85 although you have situations like kansas where jucos can only have 55 out of state players on scholarship.
Jucos are a fraction of the price so the scholarships have a fraction of the value. Hutchison CC in Kansas has a tuition of $4500 for out of state students which is about a third of the in state tuition at most FBS schools.
As a side comment, what do y’all think is worse, the unlimited transfer rule, or that the NFL seems to be okay with some players getting an 7+ yr college career for no reason at all. Like the TE that was at Oregon and transferred to Miami is on his 9th year of eligibility
The unlimited transfers. Why should the NFL care how long someone stays in school? No one bats an eye when a regular person stays for awhile. If they can afford it then more power to them
Feel like it depends on your personal goals. If it’s to go to the NFL then I don’t think it matters because if you’re truly good enough they’ll find you. If it’s to get the best education then I’d assume you’d have a better chance getting that at a D2 school?
And at a certain point it’s about the individual coaches you have and their connections, rather than D2/Juco
I have the same thoughts. Though with professional football and semi-pro expanding it’ll be interesting to see how many guys from smaller schools start showing up.
I really doubt it to be honest. Look at the amount of D1 players that go undrafted. Those will be the guys making it to the semi pro league.
For an NFL team to dip outside the established talent pool (D1), a player has to be truly incredible or they need an ultra-specific position (like a long snapper). It's just usually not worth the risk.
It really depends, JuCo was/is the traditional route, but that’s more due to the fact that a lot of those guys have D1 talent but couldn’t get offers due to poor grades, behavioral concerns, etc. and need a place where they can get things sorted out within a year or so. If you have the grades, and the measurables/skill level to move up but just haven’t been noticed, you should go to the school that offers you the most playing time immediately so you can get film to send to bigger programs. If you can play, teams will find you, in general though if you’re not on anyone’s radar, it’s going to be hard to move up. You’re probably better off choosing the school that offers you the best degree. Doesn’t mean it’s impossible to develop and climb your way up, but the chances are slim and you need a backup plan. Edit: would add that if money isn’t a concern, and you really think you can play at the D1 level, talk with the coaching staffs of bigger schools and see if they have a walk on spot for you. Won’t be easy to move up, but being in the program and proving yourself in practice is probably the fastest route.
My niece had full scholarship offers for softball from schools that are regularly in the CWS, but her Dad (a former junior college football player, offered by Fresno) steered her right. College is meant to set you up for the future and if pro sports isn't a possibility, find the place that will be what you need. She went to a smaller program that meant less travel and less off-season practice.
Steered her right? You do know that you can still get a great education and compete at a high level, right? Often elite programs have tutoring and their athletes get to sleet their classes first to make sure they are able to graduate on time.
Yes, I'm aware of all of those things. That setting may be right for many other people, while also not being so for my niece.
and more often elite programs have their athletes getting shit degrees because their major is really sports.
If the athlete wants to a get a degree in a good sport, they will. If the athlete themselves decides they are just their to play a sport, that is up to them.
Another thing didn’t mention is that coming out of HS the guys I mentioned were considered undersized for their position. Tobias was 5-8 at best and out of HS was maybe 170 and had avg speed, (I think like mid/low 4.5’s) He had the physique of a running back, he worked to something like a 4.47/8 at a combine and was 185. Parker’s something like 6-6, but 250, but got stronger and out good weight on. By the time we was a Hoosier he was 315.
Tell your players this: If they love football, go to where they'll play and not the best possible team they can make. So many dudes chase the prestige of D1 and they forget why they played in the first place. I was a four year D3 athlete. Captain. All conference. Played all four years. I watched teammates transfer up to D1 programs after a good year just to ride pine. Made no fucking sense to me. I didn't play at the highest level, but I played at a high level that 95% of the population can't compete at. It is so rare in todays game with all the money being thrown at scouting that a guy slips through the cracks who could be a D1 starter. Reality is if they aren't getting looks, there's a reason. D3 is laced with dudes who didn't get looks lol. They'll fit right in.
You could argue tho there’s more value in being part of a D1 program compared to a D3 one when it comes to what you want to do after college in some cases.
0 people care about your college athletics unless you're staying in sports. And even then, playing D3 has not stopped anyone from a successful coaching career.
I’m not disparaging D3 athletics. Just saying being part of a D1 program with a major brand can give you access to a lot connections and employment opportunities that might entice someone over playing at the D3 level
Universally perhaps not but it’s amazing what sort of leg up former P5 football alums can have in their cities/towns if they play their cards right. In Austin, for instance there are a lot of walk-ons and bench guys who absolutely lean on that “I was a Longhorn” to help their real estate or sales careers and/or general networking. It’s a conversation starter, you make other alumni excited, etc. I personally know a former third string QB at Baylor (won’t name for obvious reasons) who openly jokes that his academics weren’t good enough to land the career he has now but that he was able to get it started because some Baylor alum gave him a chance.
Not true. If you go to a P5 school you can bet you'd have a good shot at getting a decent job working for a booster after graduation. Heck it even helps just throwing that out in an interview for any other job. The bigger the brand the better obviously.
Then join a frat. My point is if you love playing football, go where you'll actually play.
JuCo is probably still preferred if the issue is academics.
D2 doesn’t have as high of standards, but it’s also dependent on the school. Where I went the lowest sat score was something like 890, the same conference may have a school where you need at least 950 or higher to have a chance of getting in.
A number of juco players are there because they basically flunked out at their D1 university. That, or they got into trouble at their university with behavior issue or drugs. I would imagine a lot of the best players at juco started at a university and are trying to fix their academic/behavior issues and get back to D1.
A lot of diversity at the D2 level with Academics. Look at the RMAC for example. You've got schools like Colorado School of Mines if you still want very high academics and a good athletic challenge. Whatever the highest level you can play and get significant playing time, that is probably the level for you. But for any college kid, I would say get the academic fit right first--that is going to have the longer payoff.
A lot of JUCOs in Mississippi are basically prep schools for various SEC programs-Ole Miss, MSU, Bama, etc will essentially come to an understanding with a recruit in HS-go to JUCO X, get the grades straight, come to Starkville or whatever. The staff at the JUCOs are aware of these arrangements, so they might influence the recruit to keep to the arrangement if other schools come sniffing around.
It's so much different today than it was 20+ years ago. If you are good and have the physical traits to play at the next level, you are going to be found. I don't think it matters as much now as it did. The other factor is that Prop 48 isn't really a thing anymore and that was a big driver for strong players going juco back in the day.
Really depends I knew a guy who went to my Alma mater(D2) then left for Juco and he later became a D1 starter
That’s the other issue as well, the separation of ability and talent is harder to tell between JuCo/D2 and even some D3 kids
It's situational as hell and it's really depending on the sport, position and so forth. There aren't many football Jucos on the east coast, so for a kid wanting to stay home it means going to the south or midwest (or california, but those teams only play themselves) and it's really subjective. It's not about the division, it's about getting a chance to play, whether you'll develop and finding a school that meets your goals. D3 schools don't offer athletic scholarships, so it doesn't really make sense to pay to play someplace unless you're getting an academic aid package, qualify for financial aid and/or it's a program/school you really want to attend. Juco on the other hand could be dangerous if you end up someplace, get hurt and now you're done playing and still have to transfer. The academics and culture fit of the situation has to factor into these decisions, instead of "signing" to play someplace just so you can say you were on scholarship. As for transfers, depends on where you started and how someone was slated. Comparing the landscape of right now to even 5 years ago is a bit futile, because everything is just so different.
A D2 athlete should be looking at what school they want to get a degree from, not where they should play football. Even D2 schools require a huge time investment to play ball, and too many student athletes end up with sub-par degrees as a result. That KINES or Sports Marketing degree will probably not make you very employable.
As others have said it's situational but I would still lean toward juco strictly from an athletic perspective. Those teams are scouted somewhat heavily with so many of them having FBS level talent and I would think it's easier to get snaps right away with the constant turnover and less entrenched depth charts.
I honestly agree, however at the same time though if you can make a JuCo team you can more then Likely make a game day D2 roster, you have a better chance of getting financial aid, all you need is a 2.0 to stay on the team, and sincerely the talent level isn’t too different from the majority of FCS. Especially the top half, to third of d2 teams
JUCOs can give out more scholarships than D2. D2 only allows 36 while jucos get 85 although you have situations like kansas where jucos can only have 55 out of state players on scholarship.
How can I change your college have the same number of scholarships as FBS school? Most of them are associate level schools.
Jucos are a fraction of the price so the scholarships have a fraction of the value. Hutchison CC in Kansas has a tuition of $4500 for out of state students which is about a third of the in state tuition at most FBS schools.
4500 for a semester?
That's a year including books. Jucos are dirt cheap.
Im just amazed that thats about a "third of instate tuition at most FBS schools.". TXST ran me about 6 grand a year.
How long ago was that? Their website says $12k a year for tuition and fees.
Graduated in 13
As a side comment, what do y’all think is worse, the unlimited transfer rule, or that the NFL seems to be okay with some players getting an 7+ yr college career for no reason at all. Like the TE that was at Oregon and transferred to Miami is on his 9th year of eligibility
The unlimited transfers. Why should the NFL care how long someone stays in school? No one bats an eye when a regular person stays for awhile. If they can afford it then more power to them