I never understood these surveys. we have fuck tons of evidence and data from all over the world showing that increasing headways, building more stations and lines, and making service available at more hours is the most effective way to increase ridership.
What a bizarre response to be the most upvoted. Of course they already know that. They already know they want to improve those things but they have a limited budget like any entity and have to prioritize.
They’re trying to dig into more specifics about what people in certain zip codes are looking for in terms of frequency to different destinations, how fast do they have to be vs driving, etc. I don’t think this particular survey is very well written but I certainly understand the point of it.
Well said, while not a perfect or a particularly great survey. 1st party data, like this survey or public forums, should help regionally fit/customize well documented and successful public transit principals to even better serve our local community. While definitely slower as a process it doesn’t hurt to spend the extra time to do the due diligence and make it great… So please don’t be dissuaded from providing your voice.
But I understand the frustration coming from the first comment. Where it sometimes feels like they should just get on with it… because we are so far behind and some of this is seems so obvious (like maybe have the trains be a bit more frequent than an hour during peak transit times)… Or worse, where it feels like they may already know what they want to do and the survey is just a thing they may be required to do, but won’t influence their decision… in which case just get on with some of it already and don’t waste time and money. I hope it’s not this, but sometimes it sure can feel like that!
Yes, and it would be one thing if it was the CTA doing this survey. Then I could understand the frustration. It would be: just get back to the level of service you had before! But Metra has actually made significant improvements over the last 10 to 15 years, and now they are looking at a totally transformational project, going from being primarily a commuter rail system that is really just there to service people getting to and from work to being a true regional rail system. That's a huge strategic shift and they should certainly spend the time to get their ducks in a row before embarking on such a project.
If someone on the board wants to make a change, they need voices loud enough to back them up. A survey like this is much more convincing than using evidence from other cities and countries
I live right near a Metra line but have no stop near me. I know they just opened the Ravenswood stop on the UP-N but its still wild that it goes basically from Lawrence to Armitage without any stops through some of the densest parts of the city. I imagine a roscoe village stop might eventually happen(in 50 years)
I did fill it out but was just comment for discussion. I think there are a few spots where city property is against it in that area but if there was a way to connect it to the addison brown line that would be awesome.
At least the trains stop at the city stations on the UP-N. There are a lot of people in the city that live next to Metra stops where most trains skip them.
How many other ways between Lawerence and Armitage are there to get to downtown? Regional rail is not the same aa urban transit, there should be a strong demand for riders on the regional line to stop at Diversey, for example. Maybe there is, but that's the determining factor, not how convenient regional rail is for people who live by the tracks in the city.
The STAR line is what you're describing, which was unfortunately killed over a decade ago.
It would have run on the EJ&E tracks just west of 59, turned east at I90 and terminated at the Blue Line.
:(
Survey does not cover extending hours of operation or provide a way of adding as feedback.
I would attend many more concerts if I could return home starting midnight to 4am.
Metra needs CTA like busses to connect from the central loop stations to streeterville, the Museum campus and Navy Pier that require the same app/ticket as the rail line. Also, to the the medical district.
"pay for"? you dummy highways are free
trains on the other hand damn well better be profitably self-sustaining AND cover all the initial capex outlay, and then somehow they're still a waste of money
don't you even 'merica?
Honest question - who is using the Clybourn Metra stop? Makes absolutely no sense for that to be one of the few stops as you get closer to the city, its in the middle of nowhere.
It used to be pretty heavily used, but I think most people are taking busses from there, especially the employees at the medical centers that have their own private busses. But I will say that the express train feels so much quicker without the Clybourn stop.
Did you live walkable? It just seems in such a random location. Virtually no housing to the north or east and a pretty SFH catered area to the west and south. It feels like it would have made far more sense to build a station at like Wellington and Ravenswood
Yep, it was a 13min walk to my Metra line from home and a 10min walk from Clybourn to my office on Armitage. Clybourn will make 10x more sense if Lincoln Yards ever gets built, but it’s slightly better than nothing when it comes to getting from UP-NW to the north side.
It wouldn't be too crazy. There are already through-tracks through the station. They would have to demolish a decent portion of the concourse to put platforms there (there's no room to the east to expand) and currently it's only three tracks. It would be very hard to get the UP-N & UP-NW to connect through there, but it would be possible to build connections for the other lines.
It's been a while since I've seen such a perfect example of a straw man logical fallacy, so that's fun. But to respond in good faith, no, that's not what I'm saying at all. There are many population centers and business/employment centers outside the city limits. Many of these are completely disconnected from each other by transit, or have such convoluted itineraries to move between, that the only option is to drive.
For example: A person lives in Joliet, and works for, let's say Ronald McDonald House Charities, in Oak Brook. It is not possible to go this route solely on Metra. There is a Pace bus route but that takes almost 3 hours. The fastest route at 2 hours is to take *Amtrak* then 2 Pace buses. What if we require Metra to be involved in at least 1 segment of the trip? Over 3 hours, because the only route Metra goes from Joliet is Rock Island to Lasalle St Station. Then this theoretical person would transfer to the pink line, then to a Pace bus, then walk a mile to get to work. The longest estimate to drive the route is about 1.5 hours.
Would there be enough demand and utilization of a heavy rail line route that serves these two locations? I have no idea because I'm no expert. The problem is that the actual experts and the people who run Metra (who are mostly no experts either) haven't even looked into it.
Large population centers in the Metro area are only served by transit to a single business/employment center. That is systemic inefficiency in a nutshell.
> It's been a while since I've seen such a perfect example of a straw man logical fallacy, so that's fun.
Wonder how you missed 'unrealistic expectations' from you lexicon, fine, now you can sit and think about it.
> There are many population centers and business/employment centers outside the city limits. Many of these are completely disconnected from each other by transit, or have such convoluted itineraries to move between, that the only option is to drive.
Funny how you categorize CTA transfers, and connecting stations as convoluted transfers. In essence what you desire is for public transit that's point to point, which is a noble desire, but saying until this happens to every nook and corner of the chicagoland I will not ditch my car is you not engaging in good faith.
I mean if you want to use a car, go ahead, but why use BS reasons to defend your use.
Coming to your example, apart from commuting hours, metra trains are always empty for most lines. So in this case, would the voters of chicagoland fund the project to build a dedicated transport corridor between the two suburbs while people like you(not you) still prefer to drive because then the goal post is shifted to something else?
> Large population centers in the Metro area are only served by transit to a single business/employment center. That is systemic inefficiency in a nutshell.
Yes and no. The primary inefficiency if unequal funding for roads that facilitate private car use VS public transit.
There might not be a lot of people that make that direct trip at this time. But there are people that commute from one suburb to another. And if there were a train available, there may be a lot of people that make the Aurora- UP trip. People in University Park need to get places too.
“No idea why heritage corridor isn’t used more!”
*only offers a few inbound trips before 10am, only a few outbound during rush hour and no weekend service at all*
I never understood these surveys. we have fuck tons of evidence and data from all over the world showing that increasing headways, building more stations and lines, and making service available at more hours is the most effective way to increase ridership.
[удалено]
*"I declare......BANKRUPTCY!!!!."*
What a bizarre response to be the most upvoted. Of course they already know that. They already know they want to improve those things but they have a limited budget like any entity and have to prioritize. They’re trying to dig into more specifics about what people in certain zip codes are looking for in terms of frequency to different destinations, how fast do they have to be vs driving, etc. I don’t think this particular survey is very well written but I certainly understand the point of it.
Well said, while not a perfect or a particularly great survey. 1st party data, like this survey or public forums, should help regionally fit/customize well documented and successful public transit principals to even better serve our local community. While definitely slower as a process it doesn’t hurt to spend the extra time to do the due diligence and make it great… So please don’t be dissuaded from providing your voice. But I understand the frustration coming from the first comment. Where it sometimes feels like they should just get on with it… because we are so far behind and some of this is seems so obvious (like maybe have the trains be a bit more frequent than an hour during peak transit times)… Or worse, where it feels like they may already know what they want to do and the survey is just a thing they may be required to do, but won’t influence their decision… in which case just get on with some of it already and don’t waste time and money. I hope it’s not this, but sometimes it sure can feel like that!
Yes, and it would be one thing if it was the CTA doing this survey. Then I could understand the frustration. It would be: just get back to the level of service you had before! But Metra has actually made significant improvements over the last 10 to 15 years, and now they are looking at a totally transformational project, going from being primarily a commuter rail system that is really just there to service people getting to and from work to being a true regional rail system. That's a huge strategic shift and they should certainly spend the time to get their ducks in a row before embarking on such a project.
If boomers who were in charge of these things could read, they'd be very offended at this comment
Gen Xer is in charge of this one
It's how corporations and governments work.
The only question they need to ask: should we bring back the bar car? The answer is yes.
Water is wet studies are often needed because higher ups will do everything they can to deny that true facts are true
If someone on the board wants to make a change, they need voices loud enough to back them up. A survey like this is much more convincing than using evidence from other cities and countries
https://www.surveymonkey.com/r/metra2024
I live right near a Metra line but have no stop near me. I know they just opened the Ravenswood stop on the UP-N but its still wild that it goes basically from Lawrence to Armitage without any stops through some of the densest parts of the city. I imagine a roscoe village stop might eventually happen(in 50 years)
All the reason for you to fill out the survey! New UPN stop at Addison, Belmont, or Diversey?
I did fill it out but was just comment for discussion. I think there are a few spots where city property is against it in that area but if there was a way to connect it to the addison brown line that would be awesome.
At least the trains stop at the city stations on the UP-N. There are a lot of people in the city that live next to Metra stops where most trains skip them.
Ah, yes, like Gladstone Park on UP-NW. I reverse commute, so the stop may as well be non-existent.
How many other ways between Lawerence and Armitage are there to get to downtown? Regional rail is not the same aa urban transit, there should be a strong demand for riders on the regional line to stop at Diversey, for example. Maybe there is, but that's the determining factor, not how convenient regional rail is for people who live by the tracks in the city.
i can tell you what doesnt make me want to take the train, hourly intervals.
Tell Metra that! Their leadership wants to transition to a Regional Rail model. Tell ‘em you want 20 or 30 minute headways!
Both where I live and where I work are near a metra stop, never ride it. Because I’ll have to choose between be at work 30min early or 30min late
I already ride it every day but I'll fill it out anyways.
This reads like an Elliott smith lyric
Enforce the Quiet Car. Pay a bouncer.
The next time I get in a quiet car and there's a man in his 40s on his phone loudly… I'm going to throw him out the window
Defenestration.
We've centered our rail transit around the Loop, time to rethink that but is it possible?
Yeah. I’d love it if there was some north/south rail out west say along route 59.
The STAR line is what you're describing, which was unfortunately killed over a decade ago. It would have run on the EJ&E tracks just west of 59, turned east at I90 and terminated at the Blue Line.
:( Survey does not cover extending hours of operation or provide a way of adding as feedback. I would attend many more concerts if I could return home starting midnight to 4am.
Metra needs CTA like busses to connect from the central loop stations to streeterville, the Museum campus and Navy Pier that require the same app/ticket as the rail line. Also, to the the medical district.
What if we just pay for highway construction infinitely instead?
"pay for"? you dummy highways are free trains on the other hand damn well better be profitably self-sustaining AND cover all the initial capex outlay, and then somehow they're still a waste of money don't you even 'merica?
If there was a federal requirement to spend $0.01 on rail for every $1 spent on roads, we’d have the best rail system in the world by now.
Honest question - who is using the Clybourn Metra stop? Makes absolutely no sense for that to be one of the few stops as you get closer to the city, its in the middle of nowhere.
It used to be pretty heavily used, but I think most people are taking busses from there, especially the employees at the medical centers that have their own private busses. But I will say that the express train feels so much quicker without the Clybourn stop.
I used to use it every day for work, but I went full remote in 2018. Good for concerts at Salt Shed, though!
Did you live walkable? It just seems in such a random location. Virtually no housing to the north or east and a pretty SFH catered area to the west and south. It feels like it would have made far more sense to build a station at like Wellington and Ravenswood
Yep, it was a 13min walk to my Metra line from home and a 10min walk from Clybourn to my office on Armitage. Clybourn will make 10x more sense if Lincoln Yards ever gets built, but it’s slightly better than nothing when it comes to getting from UP-NW to the north side.
Living in the Western burbs I wish the metra took me directly to O’Hare.
Make it possible to travel throughout the whole Chicagoland area without a CTA transfer or having to go through Union, Ogilvy, or Millennium stations.
So you want a direct suburban line between Aurora and University Park? Are there even dozen people who regularly commute between these two suburbs?
its called through running which is actually beneficial
That’s going to require some upgrades to Union Station that are a lot bigger than Metra can do on their own.
It wouldn't be too crazy. There are already through-tracks through the station. They would have to demolish a decent portion of the concourse to put platforms there (there's no room to the east to expand) and currently it's only three tracks. It would be very hard to get the UP-N & UP-NW to connect through there, but it would be possible to build connections for the other lines.
It's been a while since I've seen such a perfect example of a straw man logical fallacy, so that's fun. But to respond in good faith, no, that's not what I'm saying at all. There are many population centers and business/employment centers outside the city limits. Many of these are completely disconnected from each other by transit, or have such convoluted itineraries to move between, that the only option is to drive. For example: A person lives in Joliet, and works for, let's say Ronald McDonald House Charities, in Oak Brook. It is not possible to go this route solely on Metra. There is a Pace bus route but that takes almost 3 hours. The fastest route at 2 hours is to take *Amtrak* then 2 Pace buses. What if we require Metra to be involved in at least 1 segment of the trip? Over 3 hours, because the only route Metra goes from Joliet is Rock Island to Lasalle St Station. Then this theoretical person would transfer to the pink line, then to a Pace bus, then walk a mile to get to work. The longest estimate to drive the route is about 1.5 hours. Would there be enough demand and utilization of a heavy rail line route that serves these two locations? I have no idea because I'm no expert. The problem is that the actual experts and the people who run Metra (who are mostly no experts either) haven't even looked into it. Large population centers in the Metro area are only served by transit to a single business/employment center. That is systemic inefficiency in a nutshell.
> It's been a while since I've seen such a perfect example of a straw man logical fallacy, so that's fun. Wonder how you missed 'unrealistic expectations' from you lexicon, fine, now you can sit and think about it. > There are many population centers and business/employment centers outside the city limits. Many of these are completely disconnected from each other by transit, or have such convoluted itineraries to move between, that the only option is to drive. Funny how you categorize CTA transfers, and connecting stations as convoluted transfers. In essence what you desire is for public transit that's point to point, which is a noble desire, but saying until this happens to every nook and corner of the chicagoland I will not ditch my car is you not engaging in good faith. I mean if you want to use a car, go ahead, but why use BS reasons to defend your use. Coming to your example, apart from commuting hours, metra trains are always empty for most lines. So in this case, would the voters of chicagoland fund the project to build a dedicated transport corridor between the two suburbs while people like you(not you) still prefer to drive because then the goal post is shifted to something else? > Large population centers in the Metro area are only served by transit to a single business/employment center. That is systemic inefficiency in a nutshell. Yes and no. The primary inefficiency if unequal funding for roads that facilitate private car use VS public transit.
There might not be a lot of people that make that direct trip at this time. But there are people that commute from one suburb to another. And if there were a train available, there may be a lot of people that make the Aurora- UP trip. People in University Park need to get places too.
Rail service to my suburb
“No idea why heritage corridor isn’t used more!” *only offers a few inbound trips before 10am, only a few outbound during rush hour and no weekend service at all*
Bring back the bar car!
Huzzah!
I hate riding it. That's why I got a Lyft bike pass. I avoid public transportation when possible
Public whipping of anyone who purposefully plays music/other videos/speakerphone call/FaceTime from their phones.