You should specify its the good ones that are sought after. I've come across a lot of guys that say they can trim and it takes them 6 hours to get a pre-hung to look good or they set 40 in a day and not a single one is pretty or functional
you start off and are not so good. But if you have a good eye for quality, a few months later you are doing good quality work. then, with the years, that becomes good quality AND efficient work
Lol yeah.. I don't even consider myself as a great finish carpenter but I'm a good painter which means I get to go behind my coworkers' shit work. I've gotten to the point that I tell my boss if he sends me another new guy who says he can trim, he'll be caulking & painting behind him. I know there are real trim guys who'd make me look like a chump but at least if I trim myself, I can make it look great in the end. I'd love to learn from a real trim carpenter eventually, but that would require finding one lol
Now see for me it’s the opposite. I’m an in house trim carpenter, and I’m constantly busting out my caulk gun and wood filler because I just cannot trust the painters anymore. We’ve tried multiple companies and they always just leave us hanging come paint. Not filling in nail holes, leaving GIANT caulk beads you can see from across the room, and painting over not filled/ not sanded joints.
It's bassicly the same for us. I'm not actually a painter but I end up painting because I'm good at it & we don't trust the few paint subs around. I usually end up doing most interior tasks (tile, trim, drop ceilings, smaller drywall finishing jobs, painting, flooring etc) but every now & then we get new employees who say they can do these things & me & the other interior guy end up going behind them to fix every fuckup.
It's real wild when you tell a "trim guy" that you have crown moulding and a coffer ceiling to do and they almost start to cry 😂 im not the greatest out there either but someone sure is
Really? Most builders I know keep the finish trims in house. Personally finish trim is one of my favorite things to do, uniquely challenging and satisfying
If i had to start over, I'd look into commercial mass timber framing. It's a pretty new construction type in the US, so might be hard to break into, but it's only going to grow. To be able to work with perfectly machined members and erect high rise buildings in a matter of weeks seems fun as fuck.
My union offers a mass timber course that I just finished actually. it was 4 weeks. It is indeed super fun. had a overhead and mobile crane and built a bunch of different systems. Like a massive Lego set for adults lol.
All depends on the company/manufacturers. There was also bolts also. Alot of the collums have knife plates in them so you shoot a bolt through there and thread it up.
They try to do the least amount of fabrication on site. If your lucky you just have to rig it up and and install it. I have heard a couple companys who do it on site buts its pretty simple.
I was lifting panels that were about 10'x 20' full size clt. We used transport anchors mostly but we did lift them up with slings a few times. The rigging portion was about 55% of the course so they even had us doing the WLL, calculations and placements of the anchors.
for commercial I have yet to see anything with everything inside already installed. Seems like its mostly CLT/NLT Panels and its just the bones of the structure. Then everything comes after.
But for residential: I saw one company who does an entirely pre fabricated home with all of that stuff already inside the walls. Power, plumbing, insulation, etc. Little pricey then the normal option for home but it can be put up in like 2 days. Good for isolated locations also.
Most are just the super structure with penetrations machined for MEP but all of that is routed after the envelope is installed. A lot of projects using panelized envelopes though.
I’m from Ireland but I’ve been told it translates to other places. I work on full renovations on 19th century buildings. In Ireland, a carpenter must be able do rough and finish carpentry but (for as ye say in the states) century home Reno work seems to pay very well around the western world due to it being difficult, tedious work and most work is being done for the wealthy so attention to detail is importsnt. I reckon, if you can train in that industry, you’ll be a shit hot carpenter in most areas so the world is your oyster. At my current work, I do everything from the roof to the fancy inlays on the old school shuttered windows. Most carpenters clear around €700 a week for their 39 hrs but I make close to €1000 and have an apprentice to help me. If I worked for myself and contracted in for that work, I’d make more but that’s for next year.
This is true for people in the Northeast US as well. It's the only place where an actual school for historical carpentry exists here. I don't know much about it as I live further west (still a lot of historical houses, but no one to pay for them), but I think the historical carpenters should know about brick exterior restoration and wallpaper/painting as well.
Because you’ll be the master of none.
And if you establish yourself as a pro finish carpenter/cabinet installer you won’t be too eager to hump 2x4 walls in the rain
That's exactly what I do and I'm a mediocre carpenter, but compared to the majority of subs I do better work I'm just slower.
It's speed, quality and variety you really only get to pick two.
Start off on a framing crew. Frame for a couple of years/ rest of your life if you love it. Then, venture into the finishing stages. Trim, built-in/cabnits, or stairs. Stair guys are really hard to find now can't imagine in 5 years.
Hello! I'm a chef > marine> looking for my next big adventure. Would you recommend everyone start with framing? I have an opportunity to go to a trade school as well. Is this a good idea? I'm coming from the cooking industry where culinary school is very frowned upon if not completely ignored as a waste of time.
hold off on trade school and try to find a framing job. framers will not give a flying fuck if you have any kind of school, they just want you to work your ass off. you will learn so much in 1 year it will blow your mind. plus you will learn the holy trinity of square, plumb and true which is the building block for all of carpentry and even other random stuff like tile or roofing etc.
I agree with the majority of this. Start framing for a few years. Get that down, and you should be set.
Your options after that are to start your own company where there is a lot of money to be made, or branch out.
I started with a commercial gc when I was 16. I'm 18 years in, but have no framing experience. I've built some of the wildest things I can imagine, but have no resi experience.
All construction is basically the same. Show up and get ready for anything if you work for a general contractor.
Youl find what you enjoy and branch from there.
The most important part is that you don't cut corners, and go home safe. If your employer doesn't feel the same way, they are the wrong one.
Millwork/cabinet installer if you can manage that. Best pay and won’t destroy your body like framing will. Very high job satisfaction and in very high demand. The trade off is that it’s highly skilled and a lot of carpenters just can’t do it well no matter how much they try. You’ve gotta be delicate and have a good sense of geometry while being very dexterous and detail oriented. Requires more brainpower than other forms of carpentry too
Start on a framing crew if you can. Then work your way through each specialty phase.
I started framing did that for 10 years for a large outfit. Continued to frame but then started trimming houses with a friend. Then got into installing cabinets. Now I do all of it from start to finish. Been 35 years and still going. Was 15 when I dropped out of high school to go to work
Good advice. Pick your employer /teacher. Look for a quality builder even to start. You can pick up bad habits and poor quality control and not even know it.
If you’re starting at 18 you’ll need to keep in mind your long term health. Rough Carpentry is a lot more taxing on your body than Finish Carpentry. It pays better too, but you’ll need to work in an area where that’s needed, and it takes a lot of time to learn the skill and get good at it.
If you go the finish carpenter route you can trim houses solo.. once you get good enough to go on your own you can be a sub and just go do houses.. cabinets too. I enjoyed trimming houses by myself. Earbuds in.. sawdust flying.. no one bothering you…
20yr kitchen and bath contractor. We pay our skilled kitchen installers very well. Key words are skilled and kitchen installers. Not just cabinet installers. Learn cabinet installation, trim carpentry, appliance installation, etc. Learn how to think 4 steps ahead and visualize how something will look in the end and how a mistake now screws up something later. An excellent installer can bill $1000/day with a helper if not more.
Everybody saying framing crew to start out...eh, I started out working for a guy and we mainly trimmed houses, did some decks, siding and minor framing, windows and doors, hardwoods and tile. After a few years, I eventually went full on into framing and went out on my own. Literally assembled a crew from guys that just came by asking for a job. I'm in NC too, if I had to do it again, I'd probably work for a trim crew that is smaller that can take the time to actually show you how to do everything the right way
I get a lot of satisfaction out of finish carpentry. If you think you'd enjoy precise and highly detailed work, then finish work could be a good option for you. Also installed cabinetry for a couple years too, that was fun as well.
You should start with rough and master that before moving on to finish. You’ll understand the outcomes and reasons for poor quality more so with a well rounded understanding of carpentry in general. After you master finish you can start taking on built in projects then graduate to furniture. This is the way
Finish guy here. A lot of upside. Conditioned environment. The satisfaction of creating something that will endure for as long as the structure is nice. I would not do anything else. I'm self employed BTW.
If you want to build houses, high end custom residential, you’ll get to learn all the phases of a build, work with lots of different types of materials, probably do some demo/reno as well. Otherwise I’d say find a cabinet shop!
Modular off-site pre-fab is a pretty good gig if you can find it. I would strongly recommend you avoid companies that do their own foundations, fuck concrete work.
Just fyi carpentry pays terribly in the southeast. They act like they can pay lower because of the lower COL except th COL isn’t that much lower anymore. In my personal experience cabinet making and furniture making make the worst money in that area because it’s usually in a factory environment so they treat you like a factory worker. Honestly I would go to trade school and learn mechatraonics. The guys that fix the machines in the factory. Way better pay than carpentry.
It’s good to diversify, do it all, find out what you like and then pursue the work you want. Being a diverse tradesman means you will never run out of work
Lol I'm gonna get so much hate for this but become a concrete Carpenter you make alot of money you get todo cool shit climb it pays well, but it's hard work that wares on your body I'd say and other type of Carpentry is a dead end career with a low ceiling unless you wanna work for yourself just my 2 cents I'm a decade in and a general superintendent in the carpenters union lots of oppertunity
Start on a framing crew if you can. Then work your way through each specialty phase.
I started framing did that for 10 years for a large outfit. Continued to frame but then started trimming houses with a friend. Then got into installing cabinets. Now I do all of it from start to finish. Been 35 years and still going. Was 15 when I dropped out of high school to go to work
Im a framer and prefer framing but it sucks because my body is destroyed from all the heavy lifting and climbing.
Become a finish carpenter its better.
None, get a degree and a real career.
Being a carpenter is useless unless you plan on moving to a new neighborhood and building it.
If you live in the city being a carpenter is useless.
So is that where you at 150k with a degree or are you just blowing smoke up everyone’s ass? I’m all set with going to college and accumulating a bunch of debt. I’ll stick to my $60 hr and overtime every weekend commercial carpenter gig. Big city=big money.
Nope I'm stuck with cancer from spraying lacquer for a year and 20 years of trades and maybe the COVID shot. WSIB abandoned me when I told them. No health insurance or union.
A loving family who took care of me. And side effects from chemo .
Trades are great when you are young and healthy.
Once your health goes you get fukt and broke just like.when you started.
Find a career out of trades and don't get cancer.
Well sorry about your cancer. But anyone can get cancer or any illness at any given time. There’s people who drop dead right before big opportunities. Patrick swayze comes to mind huge actor millions of $ boom cancer.
Definitely thanks.
Just people gotta know what they're getting into.
Tradies are working with many materials that have cancer causing agents.
Office , and paper will cause dry skin and fashion accessories.
Well ya of course they’re more aware of the dangers now than they used to be that’s for sure. Believe me I don’t care any to work in the trades wake up early commute be out of the house 12-14 hours a day. But there’s nothing else I’m going to do that makes this kind of money and school was never my thing. So the trades it is.
Finish Carpenters are always the most sought after ones
You should specify its the good ones that are sought after. I've come across a lot of guys that say they can trim and it takes them 6 hours to get a pre-hung to look good or they set 40 in a day and not a single one is pretty or functional
you start off and are not so good. But if you have a good eye for quality, a few months later you are doing good quality work. then, with the years, that becomes good quality AND efficient work
Lol yeah.. I don't even consider myself as a great finish carpenter but I'm a good painter which means I get to go behind my coworkers' shit work. I've gotten to the point that I tell my boss if he sends me another new guy who says he can trim, he'll be caulking & painting behind him. I know there are real trim guys who'd make me look like a chump but at least if I trim myself, I can make it look great in the end. I'd love to learn from a real trim carpenter eventually, but that would require finding one lol
Now see for me it’s the opposite. I’m an in house trim carpenter, and I’m constantly busting out my caulk gun and wood filler because I just cannot trust the painters anymore. We’ve tried multiple companies and they always just leave us hanging come paint. Not filling in nail holes, leaving GIANT caulk beads you can see from across the room, and painting over not filled/ not sanded joints.
It's bassicly the same for us. I'm not actually a painter but I end up painting because I'm good at it & we don't trust the few paint subs around. I usually end up doing most interior tasks (tile, trim, drop ceilings, smaller drywall finishing jobs, painting, flooring etc) but every now & then we get new employees who say they can do these things & me & the other interior guy end up going behind them to fix every fuckup.
It's real wild when you tell a "trim guy" that you have crown moulding and a coffer ceiling to do and they almost start to cry 😂 im not the greatest out there either but someone sure is
6 hours isn’t bad at all for replacing an entry door if you account for material sourcing and painting
I’d like to get into that. What would you say are the most sought after skills besides rough carpentry work and a good eye for detail?
Turn up on time and work hard
Really? Most builders I know keep the finish trims in house. Personally finish trim is one of my favorite things to do, uniquely challenging and satisfying
If i had to start over, I'd look into commercial mass timber framing. It's a pretty new construction type in the US, so might be hard to break into, but it's only going to grow. To be able to work with perfectly machined members and erect high rise buildings in a matter of weeks seems fun as fuck.
My union offers a mass timber course that I just finished actually. it was 4 weeks. It is indeed super fun. had a overhead and mobile crane and built a bunch of different systems. Like a massive Lego set for adults lol.
Is it like tilt up concrete but timber ?
Like tilt up concrete but entirely different and 10x cooler.
Yep, pretty similar. Fastened together with massive timber locks. Talking like 24 inch screws.
Screw not bolts , are the holes already in place or do you pre drill on site
All depends on the company/manufacturers. There was also bolts also. Alot of the collums have knife plates in them so you shoot a bolt through there and thread it up. They try to do the least amount of fabrication on site. If your lucky you just have to rig it up and and install it. I have heard a couple companys who do it on site buts its pretty simple. I was lifting panels that were about 10'x 20' full size clt. We used transport anchors mostly but we did lift them up with slings a few times. The rigging portion was about 55% of the course so they even had us doing the WLL, calculations and placements of the anchors.
Do they have services already installed, power and plumbing in the pre fab walls
for commercial I have yet to see anything with everything inside already installed. Seems like its mostly CLT/NLT Panels and its just the bones of the structure. Then everything comes after. But for residential: I saw one company who does an entirely pre fabricated home with all of that stuff already inside the walls. Power, plumbing, insulation, etc. Little pricey then the normal option for home but it can be put up in like 2 days. Good for isolated locations also.
Most are just the super structure with penetrations machined for MEP but all of that is routed after the envelope is installed. A lot of projects using panelized envelopes though.
What city? Just curious
Toronto, Ontario!
I’m from Ireland but I’ve been told it translates to other places. I work on full renovations on 19th century buildings. In Ireland, a carpenter must be able do rough and finish carpentry but (for as ye say in the states) century home Reno work seems to pay very well around the western world due to it being difficult, tedious work and most work is being done for the wealthy so attention to detail is importsnt. I reckon, if you can train in that industry, you’ll be a shit hot carpenter in most areas so the world is your oyster. At my current work, I do everything from the roof to the fancy inlays on the old school shuttered windows. Most carpenters clear around €700 a week for their 39 hrs but I make close to €1000 and have an apprentice to help me. If I worked for myself and contracted in for that work, I’d make more but that’s for next year.
This is true for people in the Northeast US as well. It's the only place where an actual school for historical carpentry exists here. I don't know much about it as I live further west (still a lot of historical houses, but no one to pay for them), but I think the historical carpenters should know about brick exterior restoration and wallpaper/painting as well.
That school sounds really interesting, what's it called?
North bennet
I've been a Carpenter for 28 years, I do all aspects of carpentry, why limit yourself?
Yea. Get on with a home builder company that keeps everything in house and builds from footings to finish.
Because you’ll be the master of none. And if you establish yourself as a pro finish carpenter/cabinet installer you won’t be too eager to hump 2x4 walls in the rain
That's exactly what I do and I'm a mediocre carpenter, but compared to the majority of subs I do better work I'm just slower. It's speed, quality and variety you really only get to pick two.
I'm pretty bloody good at what I do, throwing up a wall in the rain? Not in the uk, we have brick houses
You’re not bricklaying? Why limit yourself
I do lay bricks and do plumbing etc
Master of none? It's just finish carpentry. Christ.
Cabinet installing and finish is a much different skillset from that of the alcoholic divorcees doing framing and drywall
Start off on a framing crew. Frame for a couple of years/ rest of your life if you love it. Then, venture into the finishing stages. Trim, built-in/cabnits, or stairs. Stair guys are really hard to find now can't imagine in 5 years.
Stair guys? Any good framer can build stairs, are you talking something more specific?
Yeah, like a finish stair case in a house?
Hello! I'm a chef > marine> looking for my next big adventure. Would you recommend everyone start with framing? I have an opportunity to go to a trade school as well. Is this a good idea? I'm coming from the cooking industry where culinary school is very frowned upon if not completely ignored as a waste of time.
hold off on trade school and try to find a framing job. framers will not give a flying fuck if you have any kind of school, they just want you to work your ass off. you will learn so much in 1 year it will blow your mind. plus you will learn the holy trinity of square, plumb and true which is the building block for all of carpentry and even other random stuff like tile or roofing etc.
Hell yeah! Thank you for your response! Hope you have a good Sunday 🖤
I agree with the majority of this. Start framing for a few years. Get that down, and you should be set. Your options after that are to start your own company where there is a lot of money to be made, or branch out. I started with a commercial gc when I was 16. I'm 18 years in, but have no framing experience. I've built some of the wildest things I can imagine, but have no resi experience. All construction is basically the same. Show up and get ready for anything if you work for a general contractor. Youl find what you enjoy and branch from there. The most important part is that you don't cut corners, and go home safe. If your employer doesn't feel the same way, they are the wrong one.
Millwork/cabinet installer if you can manage that. Best pay and won’t destroy your body like framing will. Very high job satisfaction and in very high demand. The trade off is that it’s highly skilled and a lot of carpenters just can’t do it well no matter how much they try. You’ve gotta be delicate and have a good sense of geometry while being very dexterous and detail oriented. Requires more brainpower than other forms of carpentry too
Start on a framing crew if you can. Then work your way through each specialty phase. I started framing did that for 10 years for a large outfit. Continued to frame but then started trimming houses with a friend. Then got into installing cabinets. Now I do all of it from start to finish. Been 35 years and still going. Was 15 when I dropped out of high school to go to work
Nah do finishing and then framing, you'll know exactly what's going to make the finisher pissy and avoid it lol.
Good advice. Pick your employer /teacher. Look for a quality builder even to start. You can pick up bad habits and poor quality control and not even know it.
If you’re starting at 18 you’ll need to keep in mind your long term health. Rough Carpentry is a lot more taxing on your body than Finish Carpentry. It pays better too, but you’ll need to work in an area where that’s needed, and it takes a lot of time to learn the skill and get good at it.
If you go the finish carpenter route you can trim houses solo.. once you get good enough to go on your own you can be a sub and just go do houses.. cabinets too. I enjoyed trimming houses by myself. Earbuds in.. sawdust flying.. no one bothering you…
Cabinet maker/finish/trim
20yr kitchen and bath contractor. We pay our skilled kitchen installers very well. Key words are skilled and kitchen installers. Not just cabinet installers. Learn cabinet installation, trim carpentry, appliance installation, etc. Learn how to think 4 steps ahead and visualize how something will look in the end and how a mistake now screws up something later. An excellent installer can bill $1000/day with a helper if not more.
Electrician is the best carpentry career
Commercial
Everybody saying framing crew to start out...eh, I started out working for a guy and we mainly trimmed houses, did some decks, siding and minor framing, windows and doors, hardwoods and tile. After a few years, I eventually went full on into framing and went out on my own. Literally assembled a crew from guys that just came by asking for a job. I'm in NC too, if I had to do it again, I'd probably work for a trim crew that is smaller that can take the time to actually show you how to do everything the right way
Learn framing then go into finish work
I get a lot of satisfaction out of finish carpentry. If you think you'd enjoy precise and highly detailed work, then finish work could be a good option for you. Also installed cabinetry for a couple years too, that was fun as well.
You should start with rough and master that before moving on to finish. You’ll understand the outcomes and reasons for poor quality more so with a well rounded understanding of carpentry in general. After you master finish you can start taking on built in projects then graduate to furniture. This is the way
You don't want to be a farmer, I promise you
Cabinets. You can make bank installing eventually.
Not in the south.
I feel like the best route to take is to work for a framing crew for a couple years and then go with a GC
Be a plumber lol. They make more than us and the work is cake.
Plumbing or electrician
Finish guy here. A lot of upside. Conditioned environment. The satisfaction of creating something that will endure for as long as the structure is nice. I would not do anything else. I'm self employed BTW.
If you want to build houses, high end custom residential, you’ll get to learn all the phases of a build, work with lots of different types of materials, probably do some demo/reno as well. Otherwise I’d say find a cabinet shop!
Modular off-site pre-fab is a pretty good gig if you can find it. I would strongly recommend you avoid companies that do their own foundations, fuck concrete work.
Just fyi carpentry pays terribly in the southeast. They act like they can pay lower because of the lower COL except th COL isn’t that much lower anymore. In my personal experience cabinet making and furniture making make the worst money in that area because it’s usually in a factory environment so they treat you like a factory worker. Honestly I would go to trade school and learn mechatraonics. The guys that fix the machines in the factory. Way better pay than carpentry.
Commercial union carpenter much further north if you want to retire someday
It’s good to diversify, do it all, find out what you like and then pursue the work you want. Being a diverse tradesman means you will never run out of work
Specialize in stairs, high end interior.
Lol I'm gonna get so much hate for this but become a concrete Carpenter you make alot of money you get todo cool shit climb it pays well, but it's hard work that wares on your body I'd say and other type of Carpentry is a dead end career with a low ceiling unless you wanna work for yourself just my 2 cents I'm a decade in and a general superintendent in the carpenters union lots of oppertunity
Start on a framing crew if you can. Then work your way through each specialty phase. I started framing did that for 10 years for a large outfit. Continued to frame but then started trimming houses with a friend. Then got into installing cabinets. Now I do all of it from start to finish. Been 35 years and still going. Was 15 when I dropped out of high school to go to work
Im a framer and prefer framing but it sucks because my body is destroyed from all the heavy lifting and climbing. Become a finish carpenter its better.
Let me know if you're near southern Wake
I had no idea Carp Entry was a career. I assumed there were laws against this
Electrical.
Meth lab construction
None, get a degree and a real career. Being a carpenter is useless unless you plan on moving to a new neighborhood and building it. If you live in the city being a carpenter is useless.
Lmao what? Union commercial carpenter in the city making the big bucks
If you call $40/hr big buck. 150k + with a proper degree
All the guys with a brand new tech degree are fighting over 50k / year jobs and getting laid off. $42/h starting wage for union journeyman in my area.
Yes but their salary whentl they reach there 40-50 increases exponential
If they can make it up the ladder, pay huge student debt and aren't replaced by A.I before then sure.
So is that where you at 150k with a degree or are you just blowing smoke up everyone’s ass? I’m all set with going to college and accumulating a bunch of debt. I’ll stick to my $60 hr and overtime every weekend commercial carpenter gig. Big city=big money.
Nope I'm stuck with cancer from spraying lacquer for a year and 20 years of trades and maybe the COVID shot. WSIB abandoned me when I told them. No health insurance or union. A loving family who took care of me. And side effects from chemo . Trades are great when you are young and healthy. Once your health goes you get fukt and broke just like.when you started. Find a career out of trades and don't get cancer.
Well sorry about your cancer. But anyone can get cancer or any illness at any given time. There’s people who drop dead right before big opportunities. Patrick swayze comes to mind huge actor millions of $ boom cancer.
Definitely thanks. Just people gotta know what they're getting into. Tradies are working with many materials that have cancer causing agents. Office , and paper will cause dry skin and fashion accessories.
Well ya of course they’re more aware of the dangers now than they used to be that’s for sure. Believe me I don’t care any to work in the trades wake up early commute be out of the house 12-14 hours a day. But there’s nothing else I’m going to do that makes this kind of money and school was never my thing. So the trades it is.
Agree but as I get older I see those with degrees have their incomes grow much more with less risk and effort.
Yea and also start out with a bunch of student debt.