Call out another boiling engineer, pay them a call out/diagnostic fee, and ask their opinion. Cheaper than a new boiler, and if you do need a new boiler, what’s a £50 call out when you’ve gotta pay £3k for a boiler.
If you are paying £3k for a boiler in kent uk you are being ripped off. Standard boilers are £2250 and £2500 for a combi. Vaillants too.
Source: i run my own heating business.
Subject to survey. Im only going by recent jobs i have completed. Both types include a magnaclean filter, powerflush and pipework adjustment to 9 metres.
My gambit is repeat custom not profiteering, im in the customer relations business first and foremost. My prices are firm and i never increase them, yes i have suffered losses in the past but integrity is paramount.
Why are they down voting you? Simple business ethics. Sounds like greed got to them like rest of the world. Yes, 2500 or 3000, not a big spread, but that’s not the issue I’m bring up.
Could OP be rounding up a bit? I paid £2800 in Kent last year. The old boiler was a lot taller so it required some rerouting of the pipe work and the flue was in the middle of the unit unlike the old one, so a new hole had to be cut thru the wall.
Paid £4k 2 weeks ago in Hampshire. British gas turned out to be cheapest and they guaranteed the price which was good as the estimator missed some bits so I got them for free.
If it was £2250 -£2500 I’d expect a conversion and re-pipe from a separate boiler /hot water tank to combi. A straight forward combi to combi should be half that, including the boiler.
So you haggle the shit out of the engineers and expect them to make no reasonable money out of a job. I bet you have ideal boilers in your properties. I dont fit shit boilers. Up north life is cheaper though.
No, I have a bunch of guys who I regularly work with. I could also literally go on yell.com or checkatrade , pick up the phone and get a similar price, I just wouldn’t know the guys doing so. I have my own trade accounts, I know what’s good, bad and indifferent and no, I have never fitted an Ideal boiler. I’ve had a few ripped out when a tenant has used one of those crappy schemes to get one fitted though.
At £3k for a combi swap i would be making about £1400 in 6 hrs. Way too expensive.
When your boiler needs replacing, remember this thread and dm me. Furthest i have worked is durham. Yes it cost them more but price was agreed and held to before job start. Im based in north kent.
I get your point but all jobs are subject to survey, i am aware of the recent bs increases to boiler prices.
Im ex bg, back in 2006 i hit top engineer with about 40 others for customer satisfaction, id rather build a relationship with my customer than go for more profit, in the long run, im better off. Thats why my prices are competitive.
Repeat custom is worth more than short term gains.
>Repeat custom is worth more than short term gains.
I am a tourist here. A Yank. I had to run that through a translator as I understand the words individually but not in that order.
Just kidding of course. Sounds like you are doing things the right way. Cheers.
Im in the heating game yes, but my ultimate goal is selling myself, if i get in with a customer and then they reccomend me to their family, thats the actual goal.
Money is secondary when you have people that call you year on year.
A yank? You are welcome here just like anyone else.
>A yank? You are welcome here just like anyone else.
I was just poking fun. You might not be aware, but residential HVAC techs in the USA are under a lot of pressure to upsell work that the customer might not need.
I dont upsell, i provide what my customers need. One bed flat? 24kw combi
Two bathroom 4 bed house? Heat only and unvented.
I also dont lie to my customers. If i did and they get a second opinion which contradicts me id look stupid.
Honesty, integrity, competitive pricing.
Thats me.
I’m in Suffolk, it would be a conversion as I’ve got a tank at the moment. I know it would be more than 2500 but your price seemed so reasonable I thought I might as well ask what a swap would be
If you send me photos of the required work and details of the desired outcome i would price for it.
I did a job in durham before with diesel costs and time expenditures added based purely on my reputation. Full carcass and heating system installed in 5 days. It was a wedding present from the bride’s father. That was a long drive from north kent i can tell you!!
@south5 May I ask a question that isn't about this post? I had an ensuite installed but there's no pressure for that shower if the downstairs shower is also in use. Is that normal in an old 1930s build, or would a larger boiler solve the issue? My builder seems to think it's just the pressure that's available coming into the house so a new boiler wouldn't change anything. Thanks ever so much for your advice!
Combi boiler systems are one hot tap only systems, the kw of the boiler should reflect the required output. I personally have a heat only and a 180l unvented cylinder because there is adequate demand for hot water that a combi would struggle with in peak demand. 22 litres per min cold mains at my place means no tap suffers from pressure loss. Two showers running and doing the washing up? No issue. Combi boilers are great for their intended purposes but their best usage is limited by the incoming mains pressure.
love this, you havent even seen the work involved and you make a sweeping statement on reddit about it being too expensive. might need to be moved, might be all sorts of extra work involved as far as you know
Thats why i do a survey first but most boilers these days don’t require such upheaval, relocating a boiler would come at extra cost priced firmly before work commences. Im not a hidden cost operative.
Im good value and i make a good living, i get repeat custom which keeps me busy. I would rather get a whole family’s business than sting them on an expensive job.
Bought a worcester bosch boiler plus installation kit and controllet for £900 18 months ago and another £500 for installation. This was in Leicester. Mind you, it was a friend, so he probably reduced the installation price a little
It often happens that boilers will mess up after services. Seen it with landlords who own construction companies sending their own plumbers round to do the plumbing. The plumbers aren't going to mess their boss around, if anything they do a better job because they have to answer to their boss if anything goes wrong.
Exactly like old British cars and bikes from the 50s, 60s, 70s. Fixing something simple like a gasket, would lead to something else going wrong, change a sparkplug and then the cable would fail then replace the cable and the dissy would fail etc etc.
Great times for home Spanner times
Our old boiler was OLD too. Combi, but maybe a decade old. We had a bloke come to service it, he did so but said it didn't have much life in it again, and he didn't think that it was going to last long, and I think he actually said he'd rather not work on it again tbh, so we got insurance for it.
Maybe not even after it died again, but as we had taken insurance out and they essentially did a full rebuild.
The year after when it fucked up again mid winter, British gas had 4 visits and couldn't fix it, couldn't even legally leave it turned on as it was at risk of blowing up apparently.
Appliances do just eventually need replacing. We went with Boxt as they were recommended by a friend and they did an awesome job with the new one.
Edit - think of when Mr Burns goes to see a doctor. That's how these appliances end up. It's only all the corroded shit inside them that's keeping them from falling apart. (I am not a plumber either, but that's pretty much how is seemed - "fix" one thing and it allows all the other problems to manifest)
Certainly if you live down south the water is essentially liquidised limestone and it doesn't take many years for that to kill a boiler.
Otoh up north (Scotland) I just had a 45ish year old boiler replaced because it was as efficient as me doing my 9-6, and also couldn't heat the whole house (possibly due to 15mm pipe servicing too many radiators rather than the boiler) but it was still going.
If he's willing to put the repair money you've already paid towards a new boiler then he sounds honest to me. Not many people would do that, IMO. Usually they'd say just pay for the new item/job entirely.
What is your gut telling you?
I’m a heating engineer. Honestly this happens. You have to check certain parts of boilers when you service them and pump things up etc. sometimes if things are on the verge of going this just accelerates it.
Also pressure going after a service is most likely the expansion vessel failing. Or they may have moved the Pressure release valve which can become problematic after touching.
But saying that 50 is really cheap for a service if I’m honest he probs didn’t do much for that price.
Both of these can be fixed for not too much £££. But if the boiler is over 15 years old and in poor condition from lack of servicing. Get a new one. From a decent engineer not one of these online subcontractors boxt or heatable. Seen too many shit installs and incredibly badly set up systems from them in houses lately. Problem is most customers will think they are getting a good deal when in fact the boiler is just subcontracted to anyone with the ticket they can get then they are paid a flat rate no matter what the job. No basically no care is taken as you can imagine. Local companies(that know what they are doing) will find the correct boiler for your set up and give as price for what needs doing. And most the time for less
Moving parts inside mostly. After a few years they just wear out and break. The other part that is likely to go is the PCB which is the circuit board that controls the unit.
As it is a contained unit it's often more cost effective to simply scrap a 10 year old boiler and install a new one.
I'm hoping that electric boilers are cheaper to run by the time my vailant dies on me. Hardly any moving parts in one of those and are generally smaller too.
I've got room for a heat pump but not the money or the infrastructure in the house for it.
Electric boilers are just as unreliable. The parts that normally go will be on the hydraulic side of it. Also electric boilers will still have a pcb.
I would think electricity is going not going to be cheaper in the next 30 years. The supply will be maxed out soon with electric cars and possibly heat pumps.
Don't know what you are talking about. Combi Boilers are still available. Case in point
https://www.screwfix.com/p/worcester-bosch-greenstar-28cdi-gas-combi-boiler-white/446kp
If you add new parts to an old boiler, it can strain the older parts to failure. Possibly something like this has happened and he's being genuine. I have a 20+ year old boiler and weve basically rebuilt it over the last year, from the chain reaction of putting in a new pump.
It’s more than possible that it’s just because your boiler is old. Servicing it just means cleaning out the crud that builds up. Once you do that it starts to flow properly and that itself can cause issues. You need to service boilers every year but few of us do. A new boiler is expensive and when they quote you a price make sure to check if VAT is included. Expect to pay a total of around £1800 inc VAT.
However, water pressure is a fickle thing with boilers. Find out where the pressure valve is and re pressurise it yourself - it’s easy. If it keeps dropping though then you have a problem.
I know this is bad but I've never had my boiler serviced since it was installed 11 years ago. I keep meaning to arrange a service but I've never had any problems with it and now I'm scared to mess with it! My mum gets hers serviced every year and has had no end of problems (and it's newer than mine)
> I know this is bad but I've never had my boiler serviced since it was installed 11 years ago
i hope you have a carbon monoxide alarm near that boiler...
They’re different from what I’ve had, a gas safety check is about all the gas points in the house and checking for leaks, a boiler service is checking the boiler works and if there are any faults
Completely different. A boiler service is basically cleaning out the crap that builds up. A boiler works by running water through extremely thin spaces with metal either side being heated. All the limescale builds up in such a small space that puts everything under extra pressure and weakens all sorts of different aspects. You need a regular service to clean the limescale out and check if anything was weakened.
What did he say was wrong with it? He should have explained what needed fixing, and if not you should have queried him. It pays to take some interest in these things, even if you have to Google what a diverter valve or expansion vessel is or whatever. "It needs a new phalange? Why do you think that failed immediately after your service visit? Why do you think a new boiler is indicated if we can simply replace the phalange for £127.30 plus your labour charge?" etc
We had this after a service. They bled a radiator and the air trapped in it was masking the fact there was no air in our expansion vessel. There was a quick fix, which was putting air in it. As it turned out, it was fine but sometimes the diaphragm goes in them meaning you need a new part. I wonder if this is what he meant? To be fair, you’ve told us nothing about the fault, just that you had an issue the day after the service and was the plumber ripping you off? Let me get my crystal ball out haha.
I had my boiler serviced two week ago. And was disappointed to see no pressure and freezing house the next morning. I topped up the pressure myself and it’s been working fine since. Almost like it needed a full kick start after being messed with. I felt awkward to ring the engineer back and say it’s still not fixed. As much as the hate British Gas might bet, I would be more comfortable to ring their service desk for them to keep sending randoms out
This, the amount of times Iv been called to a “boiler service” by someone who hasn’t called me out for years and there has been a problem that has clearly been ongoing or straight up dead.
Iv had a few chancers try to claim it was working fine before I touched it too. I always make a point of checking the thing actually works before I even touch it now.
Servicing a boiler just checks it over, if it fails after a service it might be because they ‘checked’ the prv and its stuck slightly open.
You paid for a service, you got one.
The fault may not be anything to do with the service work carried out.
Source: Gas safe registered operative.
I agree, likely not the plumbers fault but PRV to a new boiler is a bit of a stretch. OP needs to find out what’s wrong, how much it’ll cost to repair and see if they would rather put that money towards a new boiler.
I’ve flicked switches off to boilers, worked on it, flicked the switch back on and a parts gone wrong so can’t blame the plumber in my opinion.
No pressure the day after a service sounds like expansion vessel to me maybe.
Expansion vessel? No. A service you pump it up, the moron that serviced op’s boiler probably dumped the pressure via the prv and its stuck with system gunk holding it open. Op needs to call a HEATING ENGINEER not a plumber.
Plumbers fit taps and baths.
Get a gas man next time. Ie. Me.
Source: heating engineer, no plumbing qualifications, only gas nvq level 3 gas technology, ex british gas operative.
Heating engineers know their shit. Plumbers unblock shit. Choose wisely.
Servicing a boiler should be cleaning parts and changing o rings etc.
If just checking it, it should be called a check up.
I always found these terms very misleading.
Definitely likely he checked a prv and it didn't seat again properly.
Changing o rings on a service? Never. Main heat exchanger seals yes but not o rings, thats done under part replacement.
A service these days is just a flue gas analysis and condense clean out, with a parts inspection. Maybe a hoover out if its particularly dirty, this is for room sealed only. If its open flued or balanced no fan its a strip down every time.
I went to a back boiler unit that had landlords cert for 3 years and was filthy as f.
The moron that did the certs before only probe tested it, house had pets and was not entirely clean, dangerous mf.
Probably just a combi installer, a plumber with a gas qualification.
Im not a plumber. Im a heating engineer.
Plumbers fit bathrooms. Pipes, taps, soil pipes.
I diagnose, service and repair heating systems.
Glorified plumber if you seek to denounce my trade but its a niche i fit into perfectly.
Checking the prv is not normally required on a service. Especially Worcester’s.
The easiest thing to check is see if there's any evidence of water flowing/dripping from the pressure relief pipe - it's the small copper pipe (that should be) bent like a 'C' on the outside wall where the boiler is. If that looks like it's dripping then either the plumber hasn't reseated the pressure relief valve in the boiler when he serviced it (easily done, not necessarily a sign of a bad plumber) or the expansion vessel is knackered. Both are relatively cheap to fix.
If that pipe is dry then it's more likely you have a leak in the system, either heat exchanger (unlikely unless you can see loads of water inside/underneath the boiler) or just somewhere under the floorboards, inside a wall, etc. which is never going to be easy to find or fix, at least "properly".
I've got the internal leak issue with my old boiler but rather than tearing up the floors to find the leak we're just coaxing it through one last winter before the house gets renovated. I put Fernox F4 central heating leak sealer in before Christmas and it's maintained pressure fine so far. Was able to pour it into the CH filter but you can get versions that can be squirted into a radiator if that's easier.
Had one plumber come in with 500 quid fix, or 3k replacement. Friend of a friend popped by, fixed it in 2minutes and just asked for 20 quid. Always get a second or third opinion
It's the old adage...
If it ain't broke don't fix it...
Lets face it if it hasn't been touched for 3 years then all of a sudden it starts getting tinkered with somethings gonna give...
You've not been ripped off...
Not an expert but had a similar problem recently. Basically your boiler is losing pressure because
1. Either there is a leak in your system which is not likely i guess.
- you can test this by repressurizing your boiler to a correct level. Then turn it off and don't use it for a few day/a week. When you turn on the boiler, if the pressure drops instantly, then you have a leak in your system.
2. Your boiler heat exchanger is broken - in which case you might need to change the boiler as replacing it would cost you the same money.
We replaced ours with a Vaillant for about £2.3k, through british gas on a 5yr no interest payment. Monthly fee is £63. Honestly, it was a no brainer
Or it's just an unfortunate coincidence?
If they're a respected recommend plumber then they wouldn't waste their time trying to rip people off, doesn't do any good for their reputation.
I don't really let anyone touch my boiler except British Gas. They do a fairly good plan that covers the central heating and boiler for breakdowns and servicing, it's not too expensive and servicing is free (including essential parts).
Pretty sure I've saved a pretty penny over the last couple of years, and apart from the occasional "ooh that's pretty old, you should upgrade" (there's nothing wrong with it, it's efficient and works well when everything is sorted) I have no complaints.
Should tot up how much you’re paying a year and British Gas don’t service the boiler, they do an “annual check” which is bare minimum and off in 15 minutes most of the time. If you get a good experience you’re in the minority hence the down votes
Well they do, actually, on the plan I have. Last time they replaced several key parts, including a seal and pump, for "free". The plan I'm on covers the entire central heating, and I've used it several times in the last few years for some fairly major works including a break down.
Never pay in cash and demand a receipt.
That's cowboy behaviour.
Oh by ra way, there should be a wee metal hose connecting two pipes... Open it up till it's at about 1.5 bar and close it. That'll repressurise the bastard.
I'll email you my invoice.
I’m sure he’ll of checked the pressure and if it’s lost it that quick it’ll have a leak so this is just dumb advice. Also nothing wrong with cash and you ask for a receipt, not demand like a twat mate
Where did I say this engineer wasn't a total fuckwit.
Given you paid cash, there's no documentation to say he was ever there, which is why he probably tried it on, knowing the OP would likely come back to him.
In fairness, I pay cash to my heating engineer and always receive a service invoice stating what checks were done and signed and dated. Get ours serviced every year
Did have a squeaky bum moment during the Arctic week this year. Serviced on a Mon and Fri morning completely dead. No heating or hot water.
Our heating engineer popped over after work to check if the PCB had died. He did warn me that we could be looking at a new boiler worst case scenario.
By the time I got home, he texted me all working (partner arrived home after the school run at the same time).
Later that evening, turned off Google Nest and the radiators remained on. Investigated for 15 mins before manually turning off.
Texted him next day, and he asked whether I had turned on / off hard reset. Did so, and noticed that the Google Nest light near the boiler was yellow; one hard reset later everything came to life and the light switched to green. All was right with the world once more.
Boiler is approx 12 years old so we know to plan for a £2.5k bill in the next few years
Ugh, i hate nest. The wiring is a youtube video, JUST TELL ME WHAT WIRES GO WHERE IN A DIAGRAM.
With a wiring diagram i can fit it instantly but nest….. lets watch a youtube video…. You will need …… a screwdriver…….
F off.
I have fitted nest on a few occasions but its such a crap thing to install as a fitter.
Hive?
Standard cradle. Me likes this!
Disconnect the old stat? No issue.
Nest grinds my gears as an installer.
No clear instructions, bugger off with your video crap. I want information not waffle.
I doubt it’s a coincidence- I’d recommend British Gas as they will guarantee fix if it’s possible. If it’s not then at least you know they aren’t deliberately breaking it
Has ut been serviced regularly get the service plu.ber to cum and look at it or there may be a manufacturer ticket with a help line . ...plumber charged my x 300£ for 3 meters of pipe for under the bath..I came home and asked why he never roded the pipe it was soap.
If it was working before the service then there is a good chance that a pipe joint or valve has been slightly disturbed and the resulting drip has released the pressure from the system. Or maybe a pressure relief valve has gotten stuck slightly open
Happened to me recently after my (trusted) engineer had operated the drain valve during a service. I realised that the floor below the drain valve was damp, tightened the valve compression joint, repressurised and got it back up working.
Worth looking around the boiler for any damp patches - though water might also be disappearing down a drain pipe.
Certainly worth getting someone else to check before fitting a new boiler. You at least need to know why the boiler needs replacing.
Unless it is something serious like a damaged heat exchanger, leaks should be fixable. Might just need tightening up. Might need a new part.
If he tested the presure release valve it is entirely possible it dragged some crap through and didn't seal properly afterwards. That's the most likely cause of an overnight pressure drop. Top up the water and check the vent pipe outside for drips.
Really never understand how a boiler can get in such bad shape it would need to be replaced honestly, unless something has been corroding for years the thing should be sound. Boilers are by nature rather basic and highly repairable!
Try calling a local guy or if you can find one an engineer (electromechanical) and get them to assess.
Ps might be worth mentioning what issue you're facing in more detail, I'm and I'm sure other will happily give you a second opinion as to most likely issue.
I've never serviced my boiler and it's still running fine however das gets his serviced every year.. I've had 1 boiler and he's had 3.. I do not trust trades people I had a boiler issue 1st plumber said your pumps leaking and x,y,z is wrong. 2nd plumber said it's obsolete need to replace it .. Lucky I knew a plumber he looked at it it was a £3 thermal sensor!
Call out another boiling engineer, pay them a call out/diagnostic fee, and ask their opinion. Cheaper than a new boiler, and if you do need a new boiler, what’s a £50 call out when you’ve gotta pay £3k for a boiler.
Solid advice there. I'd go with that.
Tell the plumber to take his jacket off if he's boiling
Bloody boiling Jackie
Tomato blood
Shit, shit, shit on it. The bloody boilers buggered
If you are paying £3k for a boiler in kent uk you are being ripped off. Standard boilers are £2250 and £2500 for a combi. Vaillants too. Source: i run my own heating business.
If he said £10k i could see why you'd jump in, but £3k isnt exactly lightyears away from £2500
and the extra money could be because there's extra work involved
Subject to survey. Im only going by recent jobs i have completed. Both types include a magnaclean filter, powerflush and pipework adjustment to 9 metres. My gambit is repeat custom not profiteering, im in the customer relations business first and foremost. My prices are firm and i never increase them, yes i have suffered losses in the past but integrity is paramount.
Yeah its a nit picking post but if one person takes note of it and dm’s me and i get a job out of it, im in.
Why are they down voting you? Simple business ethics. Sounds like greed got to them like rest of the world. Yes, 2500 or 3000, not a big spread, but that’s not the issue I’m bring up.
Thats just how reddit operates.
Perhaps I was guilty of using hyperbole. Source: GCSE English.
£3k would inc fitting it...
If it's a boiler swap, £2250-£2500 would include removal and fitting the new one if it's a standard combi for something like a 2-4 bed house.
Could OP be rounding up a bit? I paid £2800 in Kent last year. The old boiler was a lot taller so it required some rerouting of the pipe work and the flue was in the middle of the unit unlike the old one, so a new hole had to be cut thru the wall.
Likewise for me, about £3k for the same work you describe, also in Kent.
Paid £4k 2 weeks ago in Hampshire. British gas turned out to be cheapest and they guaranteed the price which was good as the estimator missed some bits so I got them for free.
If it was £2250 -£2500 I’d expect a conversion and re-pipe from a separate boiler /hot water tank to combi. A straight forward combi to combi should be half that, including the boiler.
£500 for a boiler swap that’s mates rates!
That’s about normal here in West Lancs/Merseyside.
Combi conversion from gravity hot water would be around £3.5k but thats due to labour cost, the prices you say are about ten years out of date.
I’m literally a property developer with a portfolio of 20+. That price is what I pay and I’d normal for West Lancs/Merseyside.
So you haggle the shit out of the engineers and expect them to make no reasonable money out of a job. I bet you have ideal boilers in your properties. I dont fit shit boilers. Up north life is cheaper though.
No, I have a bunch of guys who I regularly work with. I could also literally go on yell.com or checkatrade , pick up the phone and get a similar price, I just wouldn’t know the guys doing so. I have my own trade accounts, I know what’s good, bad and indifferent and no, I have never fitted an Ideal boiler. I’ve had a few ripped out when a tenant has used one of those crappy schemes to get one fitted though.
At £3k for a combi swap i would be making about £1400 in 6 hrs. Way too expensive. When your boiler needs replacing, remember this thread and dm me. Furthest i have worked is durham. Yes it cost them more but price was agreed and held to before job start. Im based in north kent.
>Standard boilers are £2250 and £2500 for a combi. Vaillants too. Inflation mate. Boilers went up 20% while you were typing that out.
I get your point but all jobs are subject to survey, i am aware of the recent bs increases to boiler prices. Im ex bg, back in 2006 i hit top engineer with about 40 others for customer satisfaction, id rather build a relationship with my customer than go for more profit, in the long run, im better off. Thats why my prices are competitive. Repeat custom is worth more than short term gains.
>Repeat custom is worth more than short term gains. I am a tourist here. A Yank. I had to run that through a translator as I understand the words individually but not in that order. Just kidding of course. Sounds like you are doing things the right way. Cheers.
Im in the heating game yes, but my ultimate goal is selling myself, if i get in with a customer and then they reccomend me to their family, thats the actual goal. Money is secondary when you have people that call you year on year. A yank? You are welcome here just like anyone else.
>A yank? You are welcome here just like anyone else. I was just poking fun. You might not be aware, but residential HVAC techs in the USA are under a lot of pressure to upsell work that the customer might not need.
I dont upsell, i provide what my customers need. One bed flat? 24kw combi Two bathroom 4 bed house? Heat only and unvented. I also dont lie to my customers. If i did and they get a second opinion which contradicts me id look stupid. Honesty, integrity, competitive pricing. Thats me.
Can you put a vaillant combi in my 4 bed house for £2500 please? Where are you based?
Where do you live? Is it a combi swap or a conversion from a tank fed system?
I’m in Suffolk, it would be a conversion as I’ve got a tank at the moment. I know it would be more than 2500 but your price seemed so reasonable I thought I might as well ask what a swap would be
I'll take you up on that offer. Do you go as far as the West Midlands?
If you send me photos of the required work and details of the desired outcome i would price for it. I did a job in durham before with diesel costs and time expenditures added based purely on my reputation. Full carcass and heating system installed in 5 days. It was a wedding present from the bride’s father. That was a long drive from north kent i can tell you!!
@south5 May I ask a question that isn't about this post? I had an ensuite installed but there's no pressure for that shower if the downstairs shower is also in use. Is that normal in an old 1930s build, or would a larger boiler solve the issue? My builder seems to think it's just the pressure that's available coming into the house so a new boiler wouldn't change anything. Thanks ever so much for your advice!
Combi boiler systems are one hot tap only systems, the kw of the boiler should reflect the required output. I personally have a heat only and a 180l unvented cylinder because there is adequate demand for hot water that a combi would struggle with in peak demand. 22 litres per min cold mains at my place means no tap suffers from pressure loss. Two showers running and doing the washing up? No issue. Combi boilers are great for their intended purposes but their best usage is limited by the incoming mains pressure.
Thanks so much this is super helpful. Whereabouts are you based?
Canterbury. But i do travel.
Ah I might be too far. I’m based in Twickenham.
love this, you havent even seen the work involved and you make a sweeping statement on reddit about it being too expensive. might need to be moved, might be all sorts of extra work involved as far as you know
Thats why i do a survey first but most boilers these days don’t require such upheaval, relocating a boiler would come at extra cost priced firmly before work commences. Im not a hidden cost operative.
You’re too cheap then, average combi to combi swap up north here with a vaillant is 2400, Source; heating engineer
You’re too cheap !
Im good value and i make a good living, i get repeat custom which keeps me busy. I would rather get a whole family’s business than sting them on an expensive job.
Are you VAT registered?
Nope. Im just a sole trader. Never breached the vat threshold.
Bought a worcester bosch boiler plus installation kit and controllet for £900 18 months ago and another £500 for installation. This was in Leicester. Mind you, it was a friend, so he probably reduced the installation price a little
If thats legit and its a straight swap, no issue. Most customers dont know the job, I understand. Good price for it too.
Sounds dodgy to me, was the boiler working fine before? if it was I'd definitely argue it could be his responsibility
It’s OLD. He seems a trustworthy guy, he’s saying it’s so old that it works until you tinker and then it just sort of, goes wrong.
It often happens that boilers will mess up after services. Seen it with landlords who own construction companies sending their own plumbers round to do the plumbing. The plumbers aren't going to mess their boss around, if anything they do a better job because they have to answer to their boss if anything goes wrong.
Exactly like old British cars and bikes from the 50s, 60s, 70s. Fixing something simple like a gasket, would lead to something else going wrong, change a sparkplug and then the cable would fail then replace the cable and the dissy would fail etc etc. Great times for home Spanner times
Our old boiler was OLD too. Combi, but maybe a decade old. We had a bloke come to service it, he did so but said it didn't have much life in it again, and he didn't think that it was going to last long, and I think he actually said he'd rather not work on it again tbh, so we got insurance for it. Maybe not even after it died again, but as we had taken insurance out and they essentially did a full rebuild. The year after when it fucked up again mid winter, British gas had 4 visits and couldn't fix it, couldn't even legally leave it turned on as it was at risk of blowing up apparently. Appliances do just eventually need replacing. We went with Boxt as they were recommended by a friend and they did an awesome job with the new one. Edit - think of when Mr Burns goes to see a doctor. That's how these appliances end up. It's only all the corroded shit inside them that's keeping them from falling apart. (I am not a plumber either, but that's pretty much how is seemed - "fix" one thing and it allows all the other problems to manifest)
This seems to be it, judging by other similar replies.
Certainly if you live down south the water is essentially liquidised limestone and it doesn't take many years for that to kill a boiler. Otoh up north (Scotland) I just had a 45ish year old boiler replaced because it was as efficient as me doing my 9-6, and also couldn't heat the whole house (possibly due to 15mm pipe servicing too many radiators rather than the boiler) but it was still going.
I just spent a few seconds trying to figure out what "otoh" was supposed to be as a Scottish word. Silly me...
I took a good minute! Too many acronyms in the world, especially whan they aren't capitalised and obviously an acronym, lol.
We had a boiler breakdown during servicing as the insulation all crumbled away when they took off the front, rendering it unsafe.
If he's willing to put the repair money you've already paid towards a new boiler then he sounds honest to me. Not many people would do that, IMO. Usually they'd say just pay for the new item/job entirely. What is your gut telling you?
I’m a heating engineer. Honestly this happens. You have to check certain parts of boilers when you service them and pump things up etc. sometimes if things are on the verge of going this just accelerates it. Also pressure going after a service is most likely the expansion vessel failing. Or they may have moved the Pressure release valve which can become problematic after touching. But saying that 50 is really cheap for a service if I’m honest he probs didn’t do much for that price. Both of these can be fixed for not too much £££. But if the boiler is over 15 years old and in poor condition from lack of servicing. Get a new one. From a decent engineer not one of these online subcontractors boxt or heatable. Seen too many shit installs and incredibly badly set up systems from them in houses lately. Problem is most customers will think they are getting a good deal when in fact the boiler is just subcontracted to anyone with the ticket they can get then they are paid a flat rate no matter what the job. No basically no care is taken as you can imagine. Local companies(that know what they are doing) will find the correct boiler for your set up and give as price for what needs doing. And most the time for less
Maybe he could have told you that *before* he tinkered?!
Combi's should last 8-10 yrs..
Out of interest, what usually goes wrong that makes boilers have to be replaced?
I'm interested in this too. I'm guessing corrosion?
Moving parts inside mostly. After a few years they just wear out and break. The other part that is likely to go is the PCB which is the circuit board that controls the unit. As it is a contained unit it's often more cost effective to simply scrap a 10 year old boiler and install a new one. I'm hoping that electric boilers are cheaper to run by the time my vailant dies on me. Hardly any moving parts in one of those and are generally smaller too. I've got room for a heat pump but not the money or the infrastructure in the house for it.
Electric boilers are just as unreliable. The parts that normally go will be on the hydraulic side of it. Also electric boilers will still have a pcb. I would think electricity is going not going to be cheaper in the next 30 years. The supply will be maxed out soon with electric cars and possibly heat pumps.
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Don't know what you are talking about. Combi Boilers are still available. Case in point https://www.screwfix.com/p/worcester-bosch-greenstar-28cdi-gas-combi-boiler-white/446kp
OK then.. Maybe 10-15 yrs.
If you add new parts to an old boiler, it can strain the older parts to failure. Possibly something like this has happened and he's being genuine. I have a 20+ year old boiler and weve basically rebuilt it over the last year, from the chain reaction of putting in a new pump.
It’s more than possible that it’s just because your boiler is old. Servicing it just means cleaning out the crud that builds up. Once you do that it starts to flow properly and that itself can cause issues. You need to service boilers every year but few of us do. A new boiler is expensive and when they quote you a price make sure to check if VAT is included. Expect to pay a total of around £1800 inc VAT. However, water pressure is a fickle thing with boilers. Find out where the pressure valve is and re pressurise it yourself - it’s easy. If it keeps dropping though then you have a problem.
I know this is bad but I've never had my boiler serviced since it was installed 11 years ago. I keep meaning to arrange a service but I've never had any problems with it and now I'm scared to mess with it! My mum gets hers serviced every year and has had no end of problems (and it's newer than mine)
> I know this is bad but I've never had my boiler serviced since it was installed 11 years ago i hope you have a carbon monoxide alarm near that boiler...
Would you know, is servicing the boiler the same as a gas safety check, or is that different?
They’re different from what I’ve had, a gas safety check is about all the gas points in the house and checking for leaks, a boiler service is checking the boiler works and if there are any faults
Completely different. A boiler service is basically cleaning out the crap that builds up. A boiler works by running water through extremely thin spaces with metal either side being heated. All the limescale builds up in such a small space that puts everything under extra pressure and weakens all sorts of different aspects. You need a regular service to clean the limescale out and check if anything was weakened.
Thank you!
Was the plumber Swedish?
“I’m a Swedish plumber. I’m here to fix your pipes.” - Swedish plumbers on entering your property
That's good. That's a good accent.
Not just a good accent, I couldn't even tell they weren't Swedish
Forget that! Where's the vase?
"Vergoofin der flicke støøbin mit der børk-børk yubetcha !" -- the Swedish plumber, probably.
What did he say was wrong with it? He should have explained what needed fixing, and if not you should have queried him. It pays to take some interest in these things, even if you have to Google what a diverter valve or expansion vessel is or whatever. "It needs a new phalange? Why do you think that failed immediately after your service visit? Why do you think a new boiler is indicated if we can simply replace the phalange for £127.30 plus your labour charge?" etc
Get a second opinion. Have you tried refilling/pressurising it?
We had this after a service. They bled a radiator and the air trapped in it was masking the fact there was no air in our expansion vessel. There was a quick fix, which was putting air in it. As it turned out, it was fine but sometimes the diaphragm goes in them meaning you need a new part. I wonder if this is what he meant? To be fair, you’ve told us nothing about the fault, just that you had an issue the day after the service and was the plumber ripping you off? Let me get my crystal ball out haha.
I had my boiler serviced two week ago. And was disappointed to see no pressure and freezing house the next morning. I topped up the pressure myself and it’s been working fine since. Almost like it needed a full kick start after being messed with. I felt awkward to ring the engineer back and say it’s still not fixed. As much as the hate British Gas might bet, I would be more comfortable to ring their service desk for them to keep sending randoms out
You never told us why you called a plumber after all these years to look at your boiler
This, the amount of times Iv been called to a “boiler service” by someone who hasn’t called me out for years and there has been a problem that has clearly been ongoing or straight up dead. Iv had a few chancers try to claim it was working fine before I touched it too. I always make a point of checking the thing actually works before I even touch it now.
Servicing a boiler just checks it over, if it fails after a service it might be because they ‘checked’ the prv and its stuck slightly open. You paid for a service, you got one. The fault may not be anything to do with the service work carried out. Source: Gas safe registered operative.
I agree, likely not the plumbers fault but PRV to a new boiler is a bit of a stretch. OP needs to find out what’s wrong, how much it’ll cost to repair and see if they would rather put that money towards a new boiler. I’ve flicked switches off to boilers, worked on it, flicked the switch back on and a parts gone wrong so can’t blame the plumber in my opinion. No pressure the day after a service sounds like expansion vessel to me maybe.
Expansion vessel? No. A service you pump it up, the moron that serviced op’s boiler probably dumped the pressure via the prv and its stuck with system gunk holding it open. Op needs to call a HEATING ENGINEER not a plumber. Plumbers fit taps and baths. Get a gas man next time. Ie. Me. Source: heating engineer, no plumbing qualifications, only gas nvq level 3 gas technology, ex british gas operative. Heating engineers know their shit. Plumbers unblock shit. Choose wisely.
Servicing a boiler should be cleaning parts and changing o rings etc. If just checking it, it should be called a check up. I always found these terms very misleading. Definitely likely he checked a prv and it didn't seat again properly.
Changing o rings on a service? Never. Main heat exchanger seals yes but not o rings, thats done under part replacement. A service these days is just a flue gas analysis and condense clean out, with a parts inspection. Maybe a hoover out if its particularly dirty, this is for room sealed only. If its open flued or balanced no fan its a strip down every time. I went to a back boiler unit that had landlords cert for 3 years and was filthy as f. The moron that did the certs before only probe tested it, house had pets and was not entirely clean, dangerous mf. Probably just a combi installer, a plumber with a gas qualification. Im not a plumber. Im a heating engineer. Plumbers fit bathrooms. Pipes, taps, soil pipes. I diagnose, service and repair heating systems. Glorified plumber if you seek to denounce my trade but its a niche i fit into perfectly. Checking the prv is not normally required on a service. Especially Worcester’s.
The easiest thing to check is see if there's any evidence of water flowing/dripping from the pressure relief pipe - it's the small copper pipe (that should be) bent like a 'C' on the outside wall where the boiler is. If that looks like it's dripping then either the plumber hasn't reseated the pressure relief valve in the boiler when he serviced it (easily done, not necessarily a sign of a bad plumber) or the expansion vessel is knackered. Both are relatively cheap to fix. If that pipe is dry then it's more likely you have a leak in the system, either heat exchanger (unlikely unless you can see loads of water inside/underneath the boiler) or just somewhere under the floorboards, inside a wall, etc. which is never going to be easy to find or fix, at least "properly". I've got the internal leak issue with my old boiler but rather than tearing up the floors to find the leak we're just coaxing it through one last winter before the house gets renovated. I put Fernox F4 central heating leak sealer in before Christmas and it's maintained pressure fine so far. Was able to pour it into the CH filter but you can get versions that can be squirted into a radiator if that's easier.
Had one plumber come in with 500 quid fix, or 3k replacement. Friend of a friend popped by, fixed it in 2minutes and just asked for 20 quid. Always get a second or third opinion
Could be suspect, could also not be. Bit like a car MOT, it can be fine when MOT’d but the exhaust could fall off tomorrow.
Plumbers and Mechanics love this one trick
It's the old adage... If it ain't broke don't fix it... Lets face it if it hasn't been touched for 3 years then all of a sudden it starts getting tinkered with somethings gonna give... You've not been ripped off...
Not an expert but had a similar problem recently. Basically your boiler is losing pressure because 1. Either there is a leak in your system which is not likely i guess. - you can test this by repressurizing your boiler to a correct level. Then turn it off and don't use it for a few day/a week. When you turn on the boiler, if the pressure drops instantly, then you have a leak in your system. 2. Your boiler heat exchanger is broken - in which case you might need to change the boiler as replacing it would cost you the same money. We replaced ours with a Vaillant for about £2.3k, through british gas on a 5yr no interest payment. Monthly fee is £63. Honestly, it was a no brainer
Or it's just an unfortunate coincidence? If they're a respected recommend plumber then they wouldn't waste their time trying to rip people off, doesn't do any good for their reputation.
I paid £500 to repairs to fined out the £5 pipe that goes to the expansion chamber was clogged. I changed it myself.
I don't really let anyone touch my boiler except British Gas. They do a fairly good plan that covers the central heating and boiler for breakdowns and servicing, it's not too expensive and servicing is free (including essential parts). Pretty sure I've saved a pretty penny over the last couple of years, and apart from the occasional "ooh that's pretty old, you should upgrade" (there's nothing wrong with it, it's efficient and works well when everything is sorted) I have no complaints.
British gas is the best company- to rip you off completely. I should know i used to work for them. Overpriced and the actual engineers are underpaid.
Terrible advice
Wasn't advice, it's just what I do. If you don't like what I do, don't do it.
Should tot up how much you’re paying a year and British Gas don’t service the boiler, they do an “annual check” which is bare minimum and off in 15 minutes most of the time. If you get a good experience you’re in the minority hence the down votes
Well they do, actually, on the plan I have. Last time they replaced several key parts, including a seal and pump, for "free". The plan I'm on covers the entire central heating, and I've used it several times in the last few years for some fairly major works including a break down.
Well it’s not free ….
Hence the inverted commas?
I let anyone touch my boiler except British gas
Never pay in cash and demand a receipt. That's cowboy behaviour. Oh by ra way, there should be a wee metal hose connecting two pipes... Open it up till it's at about 1.5 bar and close it. That'll repressurise the bastard. I'll email you my invoice.
I’m sure he’ll of checked the pressure and if it’s lost it that quick it’ll have a leak so this is just dumb advice. Also nothing wrong with cash and you ask for a receipt, not demand like a twat mate
Fuck up mate
Am I wrong about the pressure?
Yes, especially if it has just been serviced by a gas safe engineer. Repressurise and bleed the radiators.
If you do need a new boiler tell him you're going to get one through some other company
Some boiler guys won't even charge u a call out fee , have a look for a close local guy that might not charge.
Only read the headline. Short answer is yes, always yes.
Pretty sure he disabled the boiler on the first visit.
Only a total fuckwit would do such a thing. Although some boilers disintegrate when you attempt to work on them.
Where did I say this engineer wasn't a total fuckwit. Given you paid cash, there's no documentation to say he was ever there, which is why he probably tried it on, knowing the OP would likely come back to him.
In fairness, I pay cash to my heating engineer and always receive a service invoice stating what checks were done and signed and dated. Get ours serviced every year Did have a squeaky bum moment during the Arctic week this year. Serviced on a Mon and Fri morning completely dead. No heating or hot water. Our heating engineer popped over after work to check if the PCB had died. He did warn me that we could be looking at a new boiler worst case scenario. By the time I got home, he texted me all working (partner arrived home after the school run at the same time). Later that evening, turned off Google Nest and the radiators remained on. Investigated for 15 mins before manually turning off. Texted him next day, and he asked whether I had turned on / off hard reset. Did so, and noticed that the Google Nest light near the boiler was yellow; one hard reset later everything came to life and the light switched to green. All was right with the world once more. Boiler is approx 12 years old so we know to plan for a £2.5k bill in the next few years
Ugh, i hate nest. The wiring is a youtube video, JUST TELL ME WHAT WIRES GO WHERE IN A DIAGRAM. With a wiring diagram i can fit it instantly but nest….. lets watch a youtube video…. You will need …… a screwdriver……. F off. I have fitted nest on a few occasions but its such a crap thing to install as a fitter. Hive? Standard cradle. Me likes this! Disconnect the old stat? No issue. Nest grinds my gears as an installer. No clear instructions, bugger off with your video crap. I want information not waffle.
A good engineer leaves a report and an invoice. Source: cover your arse- keith denham- my tutor at highbury college.
He not technically ripped you off he's tuck advantage of the situation
I doubt it’s a coincidence- I’d recommend British Gas as they will guarantee fix if it’s possible. If it’s not then at least you know they aren’t deliberately breaking it
Has ut been serviced regularly get the service plu.ber to cum and look at it or there may be a manufacturer ticket with a help line . ...plumber charged my x 300£ for 3 meters of pipe for under the bath..I came home and asked why he never roded the pipe it was soap.
Without even reading. Probably, yes.
Get a second opinion.
Sounds like he is doing you a massive favour.
Low pressure can happen after a service or if the system has been balanced. Top up the system and you should be good to go.
Yeap my boiler was 3g it was fitted last December
If it was working before the service then there is a good chance that a pipe joint or valve has been slightly disturbed and the resulting drip has released the pressure from the system. Or maybe a pressure relief valve has gotten stuck slightly open Happened to me recently after my (trusted) engineer had operated the drain valve during a service. I realised that the floor below the drain valve was damp, tightened the valve compression joint, repressurised and got it back up working. Worth looking around the boiler for any damp patches - though water might also be disappearing down a drain pipe. Certainly worth getting someone else to check before fitting a new boiler. You at least need to know why the boiler needs replacing. Unless it is something serious like a damaged heat exchanger, leaks should be fixable. Might just need tightening up. Might need a new part.
If he tested the presure release valve it is entirely possible it dragged some crap through and didn't seal properly afterwards. That's the most likely cause of an overnight pressure drop. Top up the water and check the vent pipe outside for drips.
Really never understand how a boiler can get in such bad shape it would need to be replaced honestly, unless something has been corroding for years the thing should be sound. Boilers are by nature rather basic and highly repairable! Try calling a local guy or if you can find one an engineer (electromechanical) and get them to assess.
Ps might be worth mentioning what issue you're facing in more detail, I'm and I'm sure other will happily give you a second opinion as to most likely issue.
I've never serviced my boiler and it's still running fine however das gets his serviced every year.. I've had 1 boiler and he's had 3.. I do not trust trades people I had a boiler issue 1st plumber said your pumps leaking and x,y,z is wrong. 2nd plumber said it's obsolete need to replace it .. Lucky I knew a plumber he looked at it it was a £3 thermal sensor!
He's pulling your leg, as said get another opinion, then when it's confirmed he's "trying it" out him!
Ours messed up after a service. To be fair the plumber said he was wary because it's a known thing that old boilers can go awry after a tinkering.