I like this season's theme of "looking back at your past" since we see:
-Hughie meeting his mom again
-Frenchie dating the guy whose parents he killed
-Butcher being reintroduced to Kessler
-Kimiko fighting Shining Light (which should have happened earlier IMO)
-Homelander going to the lab he was raised in
I'm most interested in how Butcher and Homelander end up, since if you've read the comics they don't have a happy ending.
The main thing I don't like about all The Boys' personal storylines is it really undercuts the tension of the main story of trying to stop Homelander and Neuman from setting up a Supe supremacist nightmare world.
I don't buy any of these people would be risking talking to their loved ones knowing their indestructible enemies could decide to laser or pop them on a whim at any second. This goes extra for less agnsty characters like Hughie and MM being around their normie families or Starlight starting a halfway house for teens. I also don't buy characters like Frenchy or Kimiko would be finding the people they've hurt in the past to alleviate their guilt when they're in a situation where they would fully expect to die trying to stop the evil Supes anyway. I also don't buy that Butcher would care about getting terminal cancer, in fact he's the kind of antihero who would be relieved that he is definitely not making it out of this fight alive so he doesn't have to face what he's done trying to win it.
These are all the kind of storylines you get out the way before the stakes ramps up to the superpowerful villains knowing who all the protagonists are and are getting ready to do a coup, otherwise it just feels like out of place filler. The Boys should be in off-the-grid guerrilla warfare mode 24/7... but that would probably cut the runtime in half.
There is literally no possible way to do A-Train's comic ending now. Hughie has practically forgiven him for Robin, as ridiculous as that is, but he also had no part in taking advantage of Starlight like he did in the comics, which is what Butcher uses to rile Hughie up to finally kill in cold-blood.
Neither Hughie nor Butcher's endings are really feasible at this point, which is a shame because the ending is the best part of the comics, and their relationship was really the core of the entire story.
In a 1 second spontaneous eye laser as he tries to run for away probably, looking at this season.
I watched episode 1&2 a decided I’d come back when it’s concluded if I’m ever at a loss for something to watch 🤷♂️
Real shame. Loved the show prior. But now it feels like a time eater.
I’m finishing Episode 1 and yeah I already see him being redeemed but I’m a show like this it’s probably going to result in his death at the hands of Homelander or some catastrophe. I’m not entirely against his redemption arc considering this isn’t the comic but it’s kind of too predictable. Him fighting against his worse qualities and maybe having regrets for past actions I get that, but maybe keep him just as arrogant in public while we get to see him truly struggling with everything and in a major fight he sides with Homelander at first but realizes his own failures and dies saving one of The Boys maybe idk but I can see his “heroic” death coming from a mile
away.
A train has now been reduced to a mindless 1 dimensional plot device to move the story in whatever way the writer wants it to move in the laziest ways possible.
- someone is getting chased by homlander --> Speed boy
-they need to sneak compound V out --> Speed boy
So you like a sub set of scenes relating to a theme and you're just going to ignore the 90% of lazy hot garbage we got from these four episodes? They actually got a writer from the dumpster fire of that spin off
"gen v" to work in this season's staff and it shows.
One of the best things about this show is how selfish and unpredictable home lander was, now just kills anyone and he let go of his ego and is being controlled by indian velma from that dumpster fire of a scooby doo spin off.
I just watched the 5th episode of The Boys Season 4 and I have to say, The Boys Season 4 is already well below the quality of writing on Gen V Season 1, which I actually thought was mostly good. It's such a damned shame, because most of The Boys' actors are still doing an amazing job (but how I wish they would soon kill off Starlight), but everyone other than Antony Starr (Homelander) has very little to work with... I think The Boys Season 4 Episode 5 is a new low for the series, by a fair margin.
Can you also split yourself into clones and do you enjoy a human centipede kind of deal? Because your answer has nothing to do with his rant apart of giving a stupid excuse to a horribly written S4.
Season 4 made me have the realisation of how hard homelander (really Anthony) carries the show- really is a joy to watch. Feels like that meme when you are slouching with your controller but every time there is a homelander scene you “lock in”.
Something about season 4 feels off though although I did see the signs from S3 but solider boy was really enjoyable enough to not pay attention to it in hindsight.
How good the writing that Anthony is given to work with really shows how poorly many of the other characters are written. I agree that there were signs in season 3 that the show was taking a down turn.
Also Butcher and The Deep. Great actors in great roles. The show has many other great actors, but in roles that are written in a way that limit what they can do with their skills (A-Train, Hughie, Frenchie, Stan Edgar, Ashley, Neuman). But I agree. The Season 4 writing is so atrocious. Without Antony Starr as Homelander, this season would have gotten the show cancelled. The botched Season 3 finale was a sign of what was to come...
You know I was typing that comment beforehand but the more I thought about it the past few days, the more I realize how the actors (especially the seven) carry the show *so damn hard* lmao. Like I could watch a separate TV show featuring Homelander, Ashley, The deep and Atrain fucking with each other and I think I would honestly have the same enjoyment.
TBH I am conflicted because on one hand I feel subconsciously that the writing sucks in S4 but cannot put my finger on it but on the other hand all the s4 vocal criticism seem as though they did not watch the other seasons.
We will see though, maybe S4 pulls through.
The show reminder me of heroes when they didn't know what to do with Sylar after season 1. I know Homelander's acting is superb but how far does he need to defend into darkness?
At least make it appear you are doing something right, he seems bored with everything around him via storyline.
>Season 4 made me have the realisation of how hard homelander (really Anthony) carries the show- really is a joy to watch.
It's because this season he's literally carrying the show. The only other characters with anything interesting going on is Victoria who has barely gotten any screen time, and Butcher whose current arc feels completely disjointed. They're trying to balance Butcher being typical Butcher and a redeemed Butcher who is trying his best to do the right thing before he dies. The result is an incoherent mess
Hughie's entire plot feels incredibly forced and for some reason was attempting paint him as an antagonist for doing whatever it takes to save his parent, as anyone that has had to watch a parent die would do in his shoes. Frenchie's plot is even worse, apart from the fact that his relationship with Kimiko has been completely sidelined for Collin, it's so painful to watch because its so predictable. There was only one way that trite BS could end. Did anyone actually think Collin would forgive him for killing his parents? Which honestly, may still end up happening because the writing this season has been so damn bad
And of course Starlight. Starlight doesn't even have a character anymore, she's literally just a walking political metaphor
Homelander is the only thing this series still has going for it and frankly, I went from throughly hating the guy (as you should a good villain) in the early seasons, to genuinely hoping he just fucking kills everyone
I agree with your whole post and I would like to also rant on the fact that the Boys, as a group supposed to be able to efficiently take down Supes that are out of line, have never been this incompetent before. Every single plan of theirs backfires because of either amateurish mistakes, petty squabbles between members of the group or MM being a dogshit and unrespected team leader
Far are the days of them being smart enough to figure out plans to imprison Translucent, kill him, and dispose of his body without alerting The Seven
I think they wanted the excuse of Sister Sage being smart enough to outsmart them.
But they did it in the make other characters stupid instead of make the smart character smart.
I agree with almost all of this, Butcher and Homelander have carried this show like crazy, but-
>She hasn't contributed anything to the story thus far
Didn't she just make Hughie's dad, Hugh, a supe? I'd be surprised if that didn't contribute something.
she also caused a lot of conflict for hughie, he probably wanted to see her again but was still angry at her for leaving them with no explanation. definitely a contribution to the story.
Hm, I have some responses to your criticisms so I’ll just go one by one.
Plot
I’m still engaged with the plot but you're right, it doesn’t really feel like there’s an end goal here or central plot driving them anymore. I feel like they’re making this season a “buildup” season to S5, which explains why there’s a lot more meandering and set up rather than execution
As for the characters,
Frenchie
Frenchie’s plot line is poorly written, plain and simple. They dropped the ball with him. But I’m not sure why so many people thought that Frenchie and Kimiko were going anywhere. We all watched the scene where they kissed and Kimiko was like “this doesn’t feel right like bc we’re family” right? Any romantic relationship was dead in the water after that so Idk why Kimiko spelling it out plain and simple in this season is shocking to anyone.
Starlight
I’m fine with Starlight struggling with her identity, especially since her being a superhero carries so much drama with her, but yeah they should’ve expanded the abortion plotline. It would be one thing for Starlight to not gaf but she does and since that is the one comment that causes Starlight to break, they could’ve done a little more foreshadowing. Don’t even have to say it outright but allude to it, it feels like the writers chickened out on the abortion conversation which sucks.
Hughie’s Mom
Someone else already pointed out she drugged the dad with Comp V, not sure how you missed that. As for Hughie, I’m just gonna chalk it up to despair causing people to do drastic things. Is it a little hypocritical? Yes. But people are hypocritical irl all the time and his dad is dying, a lot of people in shoes would do whatever it takes to save their family, even if it meant compromising their morals.
I have no complaints about Butcher or Homelander atm, but they need to bring Ryan back ASAP. Ryan scenes have consistently been some of the best part this season for me and I’m so interested in where his character will go.
Sister Sage
The show is already showing how smart she is by playing the manipulation game and being one step ahead of everyone. They can easily fuck up her character so I’m hesitant about her role this season, but she’s shown bits and pieces of her potential and we don’t even know what her true motivations are.
Shock Value?
The shock value doesn’t feel any different to me. I don’t think it’s “significantly” ramped up compared to all the other shit in the past seasons
Yeah, there is STILL a story being told. Like others have said, it's early, not a 1:1 ratio with the comic. Its more than likely that the show is relvoving around ryan, The comics was more about killing out of line supes, but to some extent the TV verison of them isn't really all for that killing unless they have a grudge against a hero or if butcher is leading "The boys" It's more about taking homelander and vought down altogether
But I don't really understand why people are whining about how starlighted reacted to her pregnancy test being revealed to the public, nor do I understand why people are bitching about the Christians praising and accepting fire cracker got what she had done to a 15 year old boy saying "Oh this is showing the creators ideology. Oh, the creators must be a leftist!*
It's a literal show, I know it's supposed to be more of a realistic take on superheros, but it's also already unrealistic in first the place it's fictional, a different world where people act much different then what people actually do in our own world.
Am I making sense?
>Oh this is showing the creators ideology. Oh, the creators must be a leftist!*
I feel like some fans are just making up a different show in their head. The politics of the boys has been blatantly obvious and unchanging since the first season of the show. If people don’t get it by now then they’re just dumb atp
That's exactly why the writers should be blamed. (Political) messages should come naturally from the story and the understanding / interpretation should be left to the recipient, that's what makes messages in books, films etc. often much more powerful. The message is shown in a story and you come to your own conclusions about it, without being told what to think.
Politcal manifestos and commentary are for obvious contemporary politics.
That's why much of modern storytelling is so terrible. Writers feel the need to hamer the audience with their message by telling instead of showing. Either because they're incompetent or because they think they need to reach the dumbest person in their audience.
This achieves the opposite: The people which should hear the message just tune out and the audience becomes a divided circlejerk.
It looses the most important function of telling a message through a story, instead of just writing it in plain text, giving thought to people from totally different perspectives.
The thing about the Boys is that it was never that difficult to understand, this isn’t Nietzsche for God’s sake, and yet a lot of people still didn’t get it until they spelled it out in bold, neon letters.
No, the writers shouldn’t pander to the lowest common denominator, but come on, some people need to start using their brains.
The end goal is what I've been assuming might crop up and run from the second half of the season and most of season 5 ever since this season first started getting teased, which seems to be a thread pointing towards everything going wrong or getting particularly desperate for the group, while Homelander himself and Sister Sage after the lab visit are probably going to be coming up with and putting some sort of supe or compound V supremacy plan or movement into place, while Homelander himself probably struggles with his own mortality. I also wouldn't be surprised if instead of Homelander being killed by Ryan near the end like a lot of people have predicted, when the virus from Gen V comes into play again, it'll end up taking out Ryan with it at some point and that'll be one of the plot details that causes them to pull the levers in the plot of Homelander completely losing it.
Ohh right doesnt homelander go on a rampage and kill the president in the comics iirc? If it’s not butcher who kills homelander then it has to be Ryan. Sister Sage might be an element to Homelander’s downfall with her “ceaser” comment.
Hopefully the next episode reveals the “real” plot of this season and the next cause they are kinda dicking around
In the comics he rallies all of the supes together in groups to attack the White House and the Pentagon as part of an attempted coup, but it gets stopped by the military coming in with depleted uranium ammo or something like that. I'm probably going to end up being wrong, but I think there might be some vaguely similar sequence next season, maybe even the majority of a whole episode, where it'll be one of the agencies or the military that will eventually end up taking him down in the show after some sort of contingency plan reveal, rather than Butcher or Ryan doing it directly.
Except I think it might end up just being a case of him "snapping" or going on a rampage rather than having a whole collected army with him. The rest of the group will just be observing the destruction or trying to survive in the midst of everything. Unless it ends up being a situation where there's a scene of Butcher/Ryan confronting or killing him when he's already been wounded or he's on his last legs. I understand why people think it'll happen as a Ryan vs. Homelander thing due the poetic nature of his son being the one to take him out, but it feels way too predictable and run of the mill compared to every other late in season plot twist they've been doing.
Great prediction. Would be equally tragic for Homelander and Butcher. Also, I don't really see what more they can do with Ryan's character that won't ruin the good thing they have with Homelander's character.
I found the abortion storyline kinda disappointing especially since I feel like they've handled other social/political themes really well throughout the entire series.
The whole "I agonised over having an abortion" is sooo typical for American media - as if an abortion suddenly becomes immoral if someone doesn't find it traumatic. Its a trope in 99% of media so not massively surprising but expected a bit more of the writers here.
All this to say that they deffo chickened out of this theme and just went for the most fence-sitting take that keeps everyone happy
Agree with most of the points. S4 just feels a little messy so far, but Homlander, Ryan, and Butcher's dynamic is what's got me hooked right now. I do think Antony Starr's performance is worthy of an Emmy, he's just killing it.
Starlight has always been indecisive imo. She spent all of the previous seasons going back and forth over what she should be doing with her position as a superhero and public figure and it’s practically her main internal conflict.
Also I think her abortion comes out of nowhere because the reaction of the audience to it is supposed to mirror the reaction of the public in the show. It’s something that was kept private from both parties and was exposed shockingly by someone with a grudge.
Frenchie and kimiko s arc should ve been finished by season two. It just drags on and on and on around circles. Yes we get it frenchie has fucked up past kimiko non the lesser. Can we move on already. They are both great characters wasting on unnecessary stuff unless all these past troubles has anything to do with the overall finale of the show
Yeah, I've just tapped out on season 4 episode 4. I didn't enjoy season 3 at all and I've only stayed this long out of misguided loyalty to the IP, being a big fan of the comics, but it has so little to do with the comics at this point they're barely even related.
The abortion thing was where I threw in the towel, I was already rolling my eyes at Hughie's, Frenchie's and Kimoko's soap opera sideplots and Starlight's was just the final nail in the coffin. I'm pro-choice before anybody blows a gasket, it's just corny, not offensive.
The writers seem to think they're making a left-leaning, toothless version of South Park, except without the topical advantage of fast production time. This is supposed to be a prestige show with a proper story, instead the "stories" are just in service to the blunt political "satire", and I put quotation marks around satire because they're basically just references and aren't particularly funny. The only character left I was remotely interested in was Homelander, but I can't sit through this entire show just for Anthony Starr's performance, as good as it is.
I'd go so far as to say the show diverged from the comics almost from the start by basically sanitizing most if not all of its politics away.
The show is just the comic except made by people who are much, much farther right than Garth Ennis and don't really care about people who don't live in the U.S. Just compare their respective presentation of the C.I.A and for that matter The Boys themselves.
Crazy how you're a fan of comics when it's been made clear that the comic is way worse than the show.
The main story revolves around Ryan which I don't understand how you fail to see that
Butcher just becomes bloodlusted and tries to everyone, even his friends becomes after getting his revenge on black noire, like how does that sound good to you?
Not to mention that homelander can see through everything but zinc, yet he couldn't see black noires face which clearly wasn't made out of zinc lol, the comic is more inconsistent and has far worse writing than the show, nothing really was even done with kimiko and frenchie in the comics in first place either might I add, she doesn't even have a name in the comics.
Please tell me why you think the comic is better than the show
Because I read the comics and you didn't.
The comic is better than the show. Obviously a late-comer like you who saw the show first and liked it isn't going to be able to see it any other way.
You're refusing to give valid reasoning for liking the comics, and I can just throw good old, vice versa, and say "Oh you read the comics, so of course you think it's better!"
So clearly, you just like it for some absurd reason, but you do you, I guess?
I already laid out the reasons, it has a proper story and characters.
If you'd like me to address your ridiculous nitpicks, sure, since the comic addresses them if you read them, instead of just reading Wiki pages or show fans synopsis.
Butcher's "bloodlust" is set up and telegraphed a mile away in the comics. He is **not** the same cuddly Jack Sparrow character you got in the show. He's a psychopathic East End hardman who terrifies everybody, including his friends. The core story of the comics is the unlikely friendship that forms between Hughie and Butcher, with Hughie's empathy clashing with Butcher's "boys don't cry" all the way through as Butcher tries to turn Hughie into a killer and Hughie tries to pull Butcher away from abyss.
Butcher is set up as an extremist who wants to wipe out all supes from the very start in the comics, Becca doesn't just "disappear", she dies right in front of him as Homelander's superpowered baby rips out of her womb, and Butcher then beats it to death. Another key difference is The Boys are supes themselves from the very start, so Butcher's plan to wipe out all supes means his friends have to die, too. It's a great story, Butcher subconsciously wants Hughie to stop him from his genocide plan and kill him, and tragically that is what happens.
Homelander has X-ray vision in the comics, that doesn't mean he can magically change depths and make out a face 1mm behind a mask. Looking through Noir's mask he would just see bone.
Kimiko and Frenchie were better off without the "character development" the show gave them. The Female, was Kimiko's name in the comics, and she was better the way she was, a mute killing machine. She's a side character, the story is mainly about Butcher and Hughie.
>Kimiko and Frenchie were better off without the "character development" the show gave them. The Female, was Kimiko's name in the comics, and she was better the way she was, a mute killing machine.
I'd also like to point out that Kimiko and Frenchie have almost the exact same actual development in the comic, it's just done through like 25 panels across the entire run rather than fucking hours of screentime. Literally most of what's been done with them in the show is just filler for the last two seasons and if it was in the comic too then they'd have been far worse for eating up so much time on nothing.
Filler is exactly right. I got deja vu with Kimiko and Frenchie both "discovering themselves" again. I found both The Female and Frenchie more interesting in the comics, The Female having uncontrollable violent urges that in the show she seems to have just shrugged off to become a quirky, happy Gen Z texter, and Frenchie had a fun angle in the comics where he was so deranged that almost all of his backstory was probably a delusion as an unreliable narrator. Like you say though, in both cases it's done briskly.
Yeah no she didn't, she was being treated like nothing more than a tool to the boys all she does is show up in missions.
There is little to nothing actually done with her in the comics, she plays a bigger role in the show.
And what you're calling "Filler" isn't even that bad when the comic spends a good hunk of time with a repetitive format of the boys fighting degenerate heros whom are incompetent always trying to make the next supe far worse than the other!
>Yeah no she didn't, she was being treated like nothing more than a tool to the boys all she does is show up in missions.
>There is little to nothing actually done with her in the comics, she plays a bigger role in the show.
Genuinely just don't talk about the comic if you haven't read it lmao. This is all stuff noted by her and Frenchie, who constantly consider moving on from The Boys throughout the comic and eventually decide to do so before being tragically murdered by Butcher near the end. It's slow burning and done with only a few dozen panels across the run because it's a very basic arc and doesn't demand the exhaustive screen time dedicated to them in the show.
In the show this is instead rectified by Kimiko deciding that she won't be a monster, she'll just protect her friend by deliberately over-killing a minimum wage employee in Vought's security team, viciously tearing his face and body apart in a spray of gore and being so distracted by her completely unnecessary torture that she allows Frenchie to be shot by another one she wasn't paying attention to, then never acknowledging this massive fuck up again.
>And what you're calling "Filler" isn't even that bad when the comic spends a good hunk of time with a repetitive format of the boys fighting degenerate heros whom are incompetent always trying to make the next supe far worse than the other!
Yeah the superheroes are the worst part of the comic, they also take up a fairly small fraction of its screen time and are mostly used to convey information about the actual villain in the form of Vought and their corporate lobbyism.
Also Amazon defenders still using this cope after we got the clone rimming scene, lol.
Lol the moron blocked me because he thinks my issue with the politically sanitized dogshit Amazon's made is that it has politics in it. No, it should have more politics like the *actually* left wing comic did, instead of this dumbass centrist drivel.
Yeah and that's my point and you clearly missed it lol, butcher has a different reasoning for acting how he does in the show than in the comics why don't you understand that?
You have no point, you're just irrationally upset that I don't like something you like.
The further the show went from the comics, the worse it's gotten. Now it's just shit. Butcher is just the boring "scoundrel with a heart of gold" trope in the show, and Hughie is a milquetoast audience surrogate. The comic had actual characters, and a story. I couldn't care less about Ryan, it's just another hammy sideplot with an awkward actor.
>Crazy how you're a fan of comics when it's been made clear that the comic is way worse than the show.
People who love the C.I.A and think the pinnacle of evil is Donald Trump making things worse for specifically U.S citizens, I'd guess.
I'm talking about the adaptation of a source material that frequently emphasises how working with the C.I.A is an immoral thing only done as a reluctant means to an end and how the status quo as it has already existed for years is itself a force of mass suffering and immorality being turned into "the dangers of the orange man who wants to do everything the U.S is already doing except also he'll make things shittier for the privileged Westerners who live within their borders".
If you'd actually read the comic you might have noticed such things as the long explanations of Corporate lobbyism, U.S intervention, 9/11 as a rallying cry for illegal wars of aggression that killed hundreds of thousands, etc etc. Virtually all of this is absent from the show, because the show was made by people who are much farther right on the political spectrum than Garth Ennis.
The Amazon adaptation is politically sanitised dogshit which carefully *avoids* talking about the issues touched on in the comics in favour of just circlejerking about how Donald Trump specifically is bad. It's a Western-Centric show created to be as inoffensive as possible to all of the people who benefit from Colonialism and Capitalism.
I think people are starting to call out the boys is simply the fact the cool part are turning less cool by every season.
No serious a super bang cow in season 1,2 would be really shock, by season 3 4 is just another normal day for the boys universe
I'm considering what you've said but so far the only thing I somewhat agree with is the whole Hughie shoulda known better about V. the abrupt removal of the Kimiko and Frenchie is a little weird too.
"I think this season has also significantly ramped up the shock value of the series to the point where it's not really impactful, funny or interesting any more"
What about this season makes the shock value bigger? This show has always had a big shock value and I don't see anything about this season that makes it more gratuitous or "jump the shark". I mean, we've had Homelander masturbating to a city in a previous season god damn it! what exactly is it about this season that changes that? admittedly it doesn't always land but it's the staple of the show.
"The plot points about her ***aborting Hughie's child*** are also PRETTY FUCKING SIGNIFICANT. So WHY is this arbitrarily thrown out by Firecracker with ABSOLUTELY NO WARNING OR CONTEXT? "
Arbitrary? she's using it as a weapon against her that would be a significant issue from the crowd she's drawing out! It seems pretty logical to me that it would come up in this context especially since it's also used as a way for "Sister Sage" to lure a physical altercation to "get back" at Firecracker. I guess you thought it should've been setup in advance but I think that could add to the realness not detract from it. were getting other dramatic reveals about Starlight and Hughie, why is this out of left field compared to those others?
Speaking generally about your other complaints, I really enjoy that these characters have something dramatic to deal with this season and I always admire the show being able to find something. As someone else pointed out, a big theme of this season is confronting the best.
Overall, I'm enjoying this season quite a bit!
Why do people say that season 4 "Doesn't have a story" And keep comparing it to the comics when two stories kinda basically diverged when Ryan existed? Butcher doesn't cse about killing other superheros as he does in the comics unless he has to or needs to as a job or something.
But speaking of hughie. Of course, he knows better about V, but in his current emotional state, he was probably gambling about it, especially with his mother maybe having power over whatever I kinda forgot I just remember hughie being distressed over something.
But we already know that hughir acts out of emotion rather than actually thinking
Fucking thank you! I feel like I’m loosing my damn mind with the discourse around this show. People are either criticizing the show because “it’s gone woke” or deflecting any legitimate criticism of this season by going “you just hate it because you’re on the far right”. Which is news to me since I’m a democratic socialist, but apparently being able to criticize a show that agrees with your politically views is not something that can happen anymore. The quality of the writing has fallen off a cliff this season, I don’t care about the political messaging, I care about well writing interesting characters that engage in fun and entertaining activities. Making a character bisexual doesn’t automatically make them interesting! You still need to make them an interesting character. Honestly, I’m about ready to give up on this show, the toxicity around it is too much.
been hate watching since season 2 its been a downward spiral
cant wait to rant here once i start s4
everything is gimmicky the writers wanna have their cake and eat it too, character arcs undo themselves
there was 1 time an important character died, black noir
and their writing is so incompetent they only gave noir a backstory so we care when he gets killed. i can bet you 10 fold that is the only reason they gave him a backstory, so we feel something when homie kills him
they cancelled tick season 3 for this edgy crap, only boys s1 compares to tick season 1 and 2
> Homelander: Great as ever, absolutely psychotic. No other comment.
And this is the exact problem. Homelander is pretty much all that the show has going for it and the show knows it.
Y'all really feel so worked up over a show like the The Boys? Truly only season 1 for me was "good". I mean its a superhero show with R rated levels of violence. Even satirically it was only okay from the beginning. Whenever I watch this show its for the amazing effects, world building ( I mean that very loosely haha ) and just how serious they take everything. I love that someone like the Deep is considered this worlds JLA material haha.
Yeah i liked season 3 when it first premiered. Looking back on it now though it wasnt that good. Too bad season 4 is like that. I would also say homelander isnt as invulnerable or special as season 1 made everyone think. Theres a bunch of supes who can hurt him and ways to kill him in general
I recently started the Boys and just got to the 6th episode of season 3. I didn’t know what it was but something seemed off about this season and I think I know what it is after reading your rant. The show runners are no longer writing a story that has an ending in sight but one that they hope to milk for as long as they can. I feel like any good character growth was gone by the mid season point and the scenes that felt shocking have increased. The show is just gonna keep going until it stops making money. Then we might get an ending, which at that point who really wants one?
I feel any series that starts to accumulate a huge list of an ensemble cast falls into the pitfalls of bad story-telling.
Cause they are so focused on giving everyone equal screen time that they just end up writing flimsy narratives around all of them. It's honestly also the curse of this need to make hour long shows, where it's no longer a main plot and a B plot, it's more like you have the main plot A and m ain plot B with side plot C and side plot D along with alluding to plot E and F, sprinkling in some G and just for some fun tease in H, I, J and K near the end of the episode.
The episodes themselves might feel more satisfying if they were written more tight. Cut down the hour to 30, double the episode count and create a clear focus for each episode, beginning, middle and end where it feels like the ending is satifysing.
Like take the Homelander plot in Episode 4, that in itself could of been it's own 30 minute episode shot in a more tense/horror-like vibe where the whole focus is treating Homelander like a horror movie villain as he preys on those who wronged him when he was younger in the research center he was at. Simple changes like that could keep stories interesting cause you also gotta keep in mind in most cases a story that works well tends to keep the focus on say 4-5 characters.
In this example I'm using Seinfeld. At it's core it's Jerry, Kramer, George and Elaine, everyone else is a supporting character along with consistent supporting cast like Newman who plays the antagonizing character but from my recollection you never have an episode where he is the main character, he always plays the heel.
So basically in Seinfeld's run the story revolves around a combination of those 4 characters and their interaction with other people, but Jerry tends to always be the character in focus. By doing that you can tell tighter stories because your focus is to focus on those 4 characters and to have the other characters work around them however the way people currently write stories in the streaming era is to treat every character like a main character which just dilutes the quality of writing overtime.
When you have to give every character a plot and make them feel like the main character and give them enough screentime to make the development impactful, you're going to have to cut corners or inevitably neglect certain characters overtime. However, in times having a large ensemble cast with multiple characters to focus on can work however it's something that needs to be planned ahead of time where it comes seasons down the line when X characters can get the spotlight and Y characters take the side role, From my recollection I would say Shameless did it pretty well, starting with the adults raising the kids and then as they grew up they started taking the spotlight, and while certain characters always had a main focus the ensemble cast I would say was given decent breathing room to develop, granted yes I would say overtime the interracial couple of Kevin and Veronica felt semi-shoehorned in because overtime they felt more like a distraction from the Gallagher family and not actually part of the main narrative. They were a B-Plot that in essence could feel like a different show with how disconnected overtime they became with the family.
I guess a better recent one to use that may be semi-fresh in peoples heads is Stranger Things, you have so many different plots taking place at once that just happen to connect near the end but it feels so disjointed it just feels like you are watching 3-4 different shows rather than a single show.
Couldn't agree more. Once scene that perfectly displays the disappointing writing for season 4 is the "bat scene". It's like the writers were like "we need a scene that'll shock the fans and make the Homelander look evil"... "Oh, I have an idea". Then they came up with that ridiculous scene.
I agree. I enjoyed the first three seasons. I watched the first episode of s4 and could see right away that there is nothing interesting happening here. Homelanders son is a dry character that isn’t well written, I don’t care about him or anything that happens with him. Sister sage is a very 2d character and you can see where her arc is going from a mile away. The Fishboy doesn’t bring anything to the table. Im bored of seeing A-train’s pas ag attitude constantly. The only interesting character is the congresswoman but I stopped caring about her when she became transparent within 20 minutes of the episode. All pretty lame.
Something is off. It's not the MAGA stuff. I find that pretty good. It's Frenchie and kimiko not making sense. It feels like the writing is more for humor. Still fun but it doesn't feel as tightly written
To be honest, I think the show is just too long already for the non-existent character development.
Even Homelander is a bore by now. I mean the character is great, his psychopathy and need for approval was shown perfectly in season one. But now he's become a caricature of the initial caricature...
Now we are TOLD that he needs approval, which cheapens the whole thing. And in every other scene I'm like: Oh, more and more extreme psycho thingies, I'm so suprised...
Same with the boys. The conflicts and drama just repeat and seem to get more dysfunctional and less intelligent.
By now, Homelander and the boys are out-stupiding each other so nobody kills the other.
The politcal messaging has also gotten much less intelligent. Less subtle showing, more slaps over the head...
The main issue of Season 4 is very simple: we are supposed to be at the endgame, but this season feels more like a season 2. (Season 2 felt like a major step back IMO)
I loved the Boys. It's one of the only current shows where I looked forward to a new season. However, after episode 5 last night I have to tap out.
Every character is loathsome at this point. For example, Hughie and Starlight were ordinary heroes trying to make sense of, and survive, in a super-hero world. But now season 4 has Hughie ignoring his dad, who has been eminently ignorable and essentially irrelevant--only to have a convenient plot-stroke. Now Hughie suddenly cares, and is obsessively determined to make up for all the caring he didn't do earlier. (Dude: that is not how it works, not in real life, and not on TV. You care when people are alive. If you only start when they are on the way out, that is performative and way douchier than just sticking to your guns of indifference.)
But since we are in season 4 where every decision is not only illogical, but guaranteed to make things worse, Hughie hatches a plan to steal Compound V for his dad. He knows this can have no good outcome. But he guilts A-Train into doing it, because A-Train accidentally killed his girlfriend all those seasons ago. Then his dad proceeds to use a bunch of innocent patients' entrails for slip-n'-slide. And Hughie is fine with it, because he gets to have a teary goodbye with his dad--the same words he could have said without patient viscera if he just returned his phone messages earlier. At this point, Hughie is far worse than A-Train ever was, in that he is not only drenched in the blood of innocents (literally), but he excuses it by reveling in his moralizing wussitude.
And Starlight. Whew. Her skills and inspiration as a leader are less than zero. She has no idea what she is doing, or why. The only breaks she takes from walking around weeping and wounded are when she tells other people what they should be doing with their personal lives. And if they used CGI or filters to Kardashian her face: make it stop! She looks terrible, and Michael Jackson wants his nose back.
Really all that's left is waiting for Homelander to show the levels of his descent in depravity with tiny facial tics. (If Antony Starr ever takes over the world, we are in for a really entertaining bad time.) Also, the Deep doing funny Deep stuff.
I stopped caring in season 3. Couldn’t even watch Gen V.
I’m really tired of literally every hero in the show being a comically evil psychopath
Yeah we get it, super heroes suck blah blah blah
So she aborted hughie's child during the relationship while they were together then broke up with him later or she knew she was pregnant but broke up with him anyway then aborted the child. Either way it's secretive and super disgusting. This loving relationship was nothing but bullshit. It really does a disservice for her character which I never liked by the way. She's always struck me as a useless Mary sue. She's so perfect, she's the victim, don't forget hughie is bad for wanting to help for once.🙄 The whole guilt trip she did to him always made me roll my eyes.
I love that this rant doesn't even touch MM because he's always sucked. Sucked in the comic. Sucked in every season and episode of the show. A perfect example of a character who should have been lost in adaptation. I have enjoyed every season so far but MM could have died at any point and it would have been a positive.
Edit: if you like mm tell me why instead of downvotes. Like downvote me if you want but I'd really like to understand what MM enjoyers think because he's just so fucking boring to me and has nothing to say or do.
Of all the stuff mentioned in this thread, this is the most true, MM was great in the 1st season and was okay in the 3rd, tbh I don't even remember him much from the 2nd. But this season his character feels boring, he doesn't even seem to contribute much besides saying "hey I'm the leader". I'm not sure if they are setting something big up for him or what but I hope he gets more energy
I like this season's theme of "looking back at your past" since we see: -Hughie meeting his mom again -Frenchie dating the guy whose parents he killed -Butcher being reintroduced to Kessler -Kimiko fighting Shining Light (which should have happened earlier IMO) -Homelander going to the lab he was raised in I'm most interested in how Butcher and Homelander end up, since if you've read the comics they don't have a happy ending.
The main thing I don't like about all The Boys' personal storylines is it really undercuts the tension of the main story of trying to stop Homelander and Neuman from setting up a Supe supremacist nightmare world. I don't buy any of these people would be risking talking to their loved ones knowing their indestructible enemies could decide to laser or pop them on a whim at any second. This goes extra for less agnsty characters like Hughie and MM being around their normie families or Starlight starting a halfway house for teens. I also don't buy characters like Frenchy or Kimiko would be finding the people they've hurt in the past to alleviate their guilt when they're in a situation where they would fully expect to die trying to stop the evil Supes anyway. I also don't buy that Butcher would care about getting terminal cancer, in fact he's the kind of antihero who would be relieved that he is definitely not making it out of this fight alive so he doesn't have to face what he's done trying to win it. These are all the kind of storylines you get out the way before the stakes ramps up to the superpowerful villains knowing who all the protagonists are and are getting ready to do a coup, otherwise it just feels like out of place filler. The Boys should be in off-the-grid guerrilla warfare mode 24/7... but that would probably cut the runtime in half.
Worried about A-Train too, pretty sure his ending wasn’t to sweet either
There is literally no possible way to do A-Train's comic ending now. Hughie has practically forgiven him for Robin, as ridiculous as that is, but he also had no part in taking advantage of Starlight like he did in the comics, which is what Butcher uses to rile Hughie up to finally kill in cold-blood. Neither Hughie nor Butcher's endings are really feasible at this point, which is a shame because the ending is the best part of the comics, and their relationship was really the core of the entire story.
A-Train is gonna die by homelander or some shit
In a 1 second spontaneous eye laser as he tries to run for away probably, looking at this season. I watched episode 1&2 a decided I’d come back when it’s concluded if I’m ever at a loss for something to watch 🤷♂️ Real shame. Loved the show prior. But now it feels like a time eater.
I’m finishing Episode 1 and yeah I already see him being redeemed but I’m a show like this it’s probably going to result in his death at the hands of Homelander or some catastrophe. I’m not entirely against his redemption arc considering this isn’t the comic but it’s kind of too predictable. Him fighting against his worse qualities and maybe having regrets for past actions I get that, but maybe keep him just as arrogant in public while we get to see him truly struggling with everything and in a major fight he sides with Homelander at first but realizes his own failures and dies saving one of The Boys maybe idk but I can see his “heroic” death coming from a mile away.
A train has now been reduced to a mindless 1 dimensional plot device to move the story in whatever way the writer wants it to move in the laziest ways possible. - someone is getting chased by homlander --> Speed boy -they need to sneak compound V out --> Speed boy
So you like a sub set of scenes relating to a theme and you're just going to ignore the 90% of lazy hot garbage we got from these four episodes? They actually got a writer from the dumpster fire of that spin off "gen v" to work in this season's staff and it shows. One of the best things about this show is how selfish and unpredictable home lander was, now just kills anyone and he let go of his ego and is being controlled by indian velma from that dumpster fire of a scooby doo spin off.
I just watched the 5th episode of The Boys Season 4 and I have to say, The Boys Season 4 is already well below the quality of writing on Gen V Season 1, which I actually thought was mostly good. It's such a damned shame, because most of The Boys' actors are still doing an amazing job (but how I wish they would soon kill off Starlight), but everyone other than Antony Starr (Homelander) has very little to work with... I think The Boys Season 4 Episode 5 is a new low for the series, by a fair margin.
Dude what? The theme for this season is so off tone for what this show has been. It’s actually maddening how many fans think this is a great season.
Can you also split yourself into clones and do you enjoy a human centipede kind of deal? Because your answer has nothing to do with his rant apart of giving a stupid excuse to a horribly written S4.
Season 4 made me have the realisation of how hard homelander (really Anthony) carries the show- really is a joy to watch. Feels like that meme when you are slouching with your controller but every time there is a homelander scene you “lock in”. Something about season 4 feels off though although I did see the signs from S3 but solider boy was really enjoyable enough to not pay attention to it in hindsight.
He's carrying, but it's like the writers are trying to sabotage the show for some reason, the integrity of the writing has degraded incredibly.
How good the writing that Anthony is given to work with really shows how poorly many of the other characters are written. I agree that there were signs in season 3 that the show was taking a down turn.
Also Butcher and The Deep. Great actors in great roles. The show has many other great actors, but in roles that are written in a way that limit what they can do with their skills (A-Train, Hughie, Frenchie, Stan Edgar, Ashley, Neuman). But I agree. The Season 4 writing is so atrocious. Without Antony Starr as Homelander, this season would have gotten the show cancelled. The botched Season 3 finale was a sign of what was to come...
You know I was typing that comment beforehand but the more I thought about it the past few days, the more I realize how the actors (especially the seven) carry the show *so damn hard* lmao. Like I could watch a separate TV show featuring Homelander, Ashley, The deep and Atrain fucking with each other and I think I would honestly have the same enjoyment. TBH I am conflicted because on one hand I feel subconsciously that the writing sucks in S4 but cannot put my finger on it but on the other hand all the s4 vocal criticism seem as though they did not watch the other seasons. We will see though, maybe S4 pulls through.
The show reminder me of heroes when they didn't know what to do with Sylar after season 1. I know Homelander's acting is superb but how far does he need to defend into darkness? At least make it appear you are doing something right, he seems bored with everything around him via storyline.
>Season 4 made me have the realisation of how hard homelander (really Anthony) carries the show- really is a joy to watch. It's because this season he's literally carrying the show. The only other characters with anything interesting going on is Victoria who has barely gotten any screen time, and Butcher whose current arc feels completely disjointed. They're trying to balance Butcher being typical Butcher and a redeemed Butcher who is trying his best to do the right thing before he dies. The result is an incoherent mess Hughie's entire plot feels incredibly forced and for some reason was attempting paint him as an antagonist for doing whatever it takes to save his parent, as anyone that has had to watch a parent die would do in his shoes. Frenchie's plot is even worse, apart from the fact that his relationship with Kimiko has been completely sidelined for Collin, it's so painful to watch because its so predictable. There was only one way that trite BS could end. Did anyone actually think Collin would forgive him for killing his parents? Which honestly, may still end up happening because the writing this season has been so damn bad And of course Starlight. Starlight doesn't even have a character anymore, she's literally just a walking political metaphor Homelander is the only thing this series still has going for it and frankly, I went from throughly hating the guy (as you should a good villain) in the early seasons, to genuinely hoping he just fucking kills everyone
He’s carrying it this season, but in seasons past the writing has been pretty great and had no need of being carried.
I agree with your whole post and I would like to also rant on the fact that the Boys, as a group supposed to be able to efficiently take down Supes that are out of line, have never been this incompetent before. Every single plan of theirs backfires because of either amateurish mistakes, petty squabbles between members of the group or MM being a dogshit and unrespected team leader Far are the days of them being smart enough to figure out plans to imprison Translucent, kill him, and dispose of his body without alerting The Seven
What you expected: **The Boys** What you got: **Some Guys**
I think they wanted the excuse of Sister Sage being smart enough to outsmart them. But they did it in the make other characters stupid instead of make the smart character smart.
well homelander was on their trail and almost found them, they didn’t go completely unnoticed by the seven
I agree with almost all of this, Butcher and Homelander have carried this show like crazy, but- >She hasn't contributed anything to the story thus far Didn't she just make Hughie's dad, Hugh, a supe? I'd be surprised if that didn't contribute something.
she also caused a lot of conflict for hughie, he probably wanted to see her again but was still angry at her for leaving them with no explanation. definitely a contribution to the story.
Yeah that's a my bad, forgot about that part!
It meant nothing anyway smh she’s still uselss to the plot
Proven right anyway in the latest episode lmao
Holy shit was that a dumpster fire. I don't think the The Boys can ever recover from that horrible episode.
Lmao i hope you saw that episode yesterday, boss.
Butcher is just a useless simp. I didn't even care when I found out he's dying.
Hm, I have some responses to your criticisms so I’ll just go one by one. Plot I’m still engaged with the plot but you're right, it doesn’t really feel like there’s an end goal here or central plot driving them anymore. I feel like they’re making this season a “buildup” season to S5, which explains why there’s a lot more meandering and set up rather than execution As for the characters, Frenchie Frenchie’s plot line is poorly written, plain and simple. They dropped the ball with him. But I’m not sure why so many people thought that Frenchie and Kimiko were going anywhere. We all watched the scene where they kissed and Kimiko was like “this doesn’t feel right like bc we’re family” right? Any romantic relationship was dead in the water after that so Idk why Kimiko spelling it out plain and simple in this season is shocking to anyone. Starlight I’m fine with Starlight struggling with her identity, especially since her being a superhero carries so much drama with her, but yeah they should’ve expanded the abortion plotline. It would be one thing for Starlight to not gaf but she does and since that is the one comment that causes Starlight to break, they could’ve done a little more foreshadowing. Don’t even have to say it outright but allude to it, it feels like the writers chickened out on the abortion conversation which sucks. Hughie’s Mom Someone else already pointed out she drugged the dad with Comp V, not sure how you missed that. As for Hughie, I’m just gonna chalk it up to despair causing people to do drastic things. Is it a little hypocritical? Yes. But people are hypocritical irl all the time and his dad is dying, a lot of people in shoes would do whatever it takes to save their family, even if it meant compromising their morals. I have no complaints about Butcher or Homelander atm, but they need to bring Ryan back ASAP. Ryan scenes have consistently been some of the best part this season for me and I’m so interested in where his character will go. Sister Sage The show is already showing how smart she is by playing the manipulation game and being one step ahead of everyone. They can easily fuck up her character so I’m hesitant about her role this season, but she’s shown bits and pieces of her potential and we don’t even know what her true motivations are. Shock Value? The shock value doesn’t feel any different to me. I don’t think it’s “significantly” ramped up compared to all the other shit in the past seasons
Yeah, there is STILL a story being told. Like others have said, it's early, not a 1:1 ratio with the comic. Its more than likely that the show is relvoving around ryan, The comics was more about killing out of line supes, but to some extent the TV verison of them isn't really all for that killing unless they have a grudge against a hero or if butcher is leading "The boys" It's more about taking homelander and vought down altogether But I don't really understand why people are whining about how starlighted reacted to her pregnancy test being revealed to the public, nor do I understand why people are bitching about the Christians praising and accepting fire cracker got what she had done to a 15 year old boy saying "Oh this is showing the creators ideology. Oh, the creators must be a leftist!* It's a literal show, I know it's supposed to be more of a realistic take on superheros, but it's also already unrealistic in first the place it's fictional, a different world where people act much different then what people actually do in our own world. Am I making sense?
>Oh this is showing the creators ideology. Oh, the creators must be a leftist!* I feel like some fans are just making up a different show in their head. The politics of the boys has been blatantly obvious and unchanging since the first season of the show. If people don’t get it by now then they’re just dumb atp
It's always been obvious, this season it's just not clever.
Idk if I can blame the writers. You make it subtle and it flies over people’s head. At least now that it’s in your face, it can’t be denied
That's exactly why the writers should be blamed. (Political) messages should come naturally from the story and the understanding / interpretation should be left to the recipient, that's what makes messages in books, films etc. often much more powerful. The message is shown in a story and you come to your own conclusions about it, without being told what to think. Politcal manifestos and commentary are for obvious contemporary politics. That's why much of modern storytelling is so terrible. Writers feel the need to hamer the audience with their message by telling instead of showing. Either because they're incompetent or because they think they need to reach the dumbest person in their audience. This achieves the opposite: The people which should hear the message just tune out and the audience becomes a divided circlejerk. It looses the most important function of telling a message through a story, instead of just writing it in plain text, giving thought to people from totally different perspectives.
The thing about the Boys is that it was never that difficult to understand, this isn’t Nietzsche for God’s sake, and yet a lot of people still didn’t get it until they spelled it out in bold, neon letters. No, the writers shouldn’t pander to the lowest common denominator, but come on, some people need to start using their brains.
Not everything is for everybody. But also not everybody can and are qualified to comment on everything.
The end goal is what I've been assuming might crop up and run from the second half of the season and most of season 5 ever since this season first started getting teased, which seems to be a thread pointing towards everything going wrong or getting particularly desperate for the group, while Homelander himself and Sister Sage after the lab visit are probably going to be coming up with and putting some sort of supe or compound V supremacy plan or movement into place, while Homelander himself probably struggles with his own mortality. I also wouldn't be surprised if instead of Homelander being killed by Ryan near the end like a lot of people have predicted, when the virus from Gen V comes into play again, it'll end up taking out Ryan with it at some point and that'll be one of the plot details that causes them to pull the levers in the plot of Homelander completely losing it.
Ohh right doesnt homelander go on a rampage and kill the president in the comics iirc? If it’s not butcher who kills homelander then it has to be Ryan. Sister Sage might be an element to Homelander’s downfall with her “ceaser” comment. Hopefully the next episode reveals the “real” plot of this season and the next cause they are kinda dicking around
In the comics he rallies all of the supes together in groups to attack the White House and the Pentagon as part of an attempted coup, but it gets stopped by the military coming in with depleted uranium ammo or something like that. I'm probably going to end up being wrong, but I think there might be some vaguely similar sequence next season, maybe even the majority of a whole episode, where it'll be one of the agencies or the military that will eventually end up taking him down in the show after some sort of contingency plan reveal, rather than Butcher or Ryan doing it directly. Except I think it might end up just being a case of him "snapping" or going on a rampage rather than having a whole collected army with him. The rest of the group will just be observing the destruction or trying to survive in the midst of everything. Unless it ends up being a situation where there's a scene of Butcher/Ryan confronting or killing him when he's already been wounded or he's on his last legs. I understand why people think it'll happen as a Ryan vs. Homelander thing due the poetic nature of his son being the one to take him out, but it feels way too predictable and run of the mill compared to every other late in season plot twist they've been doing.
It also won't happen because the show will end when Homelander dies. Either because the plot ends, or because the show will get cancelled.
Great prediction. Would be equally tragic for Homelander and Butcher. Also, I don't really see what more they can do with Ryan's character that won't ruin the good thing they have with Homelander's character.
I found the abortion storyline kinda disappointing especially since I feel like they've handled other social/political themes really well throughout the entire series. The whole "I agonised over having an abortion" is sooo typical for American media - as if an abortion suddenly becomes immoral if someone doesn't find it traumatic. Its a trope in 99% of media so not massively surprising but expected a bit more of the writers here. All this to say that they deffo chickened out of this theme and just went for the most fence-sitting take that keeps everyone happy
Agree with most of the points. S4 just feels a little messy so far, but Homlander, Ryan, and Butcher's dynamic is what's got me hooked right now. I do think Antony Starr's performance is worthy of an Emmy, he's just killing it.
Starlight has always been indecisive imo. She spent all of the previous seasons going back and forth over what she should be doing with her position as a superhero and public figure and it’s practically her main internal conflict. Also I think her abortion comes out of nowhere because the reaction of the audience to it is supposed to mirror the reaction of the public in the show. It’s something that was kept private from both parties and was exposed shockingly by someone with a grudge.
Frenchie and kimiko s arc should ve been finished by season two. It just drags on and on and on around circles. Yes we get it frenchie has fucked up past kimiko non the lesser. Can we move on already. They are both great characters wasting on unnecessary stuff unless all these past troubles has anything to do with the overall finale of the show
Yeah, I've just tapped out on season 4 episode 4. I didn't enjoy season 3 at all and I've only stayed this long out of misguided loyalty to the IP, being a big fan of the comics, but it has so little to do with the comics at this point they're barely even related. The abortion thing was where I threw in the towel, I was already rolling my eyes at Hughie's, Frenchie's and Kimoko's soap opera sideplots and Starlight's was just the final nail in the coffin. I'm pro-choice before anybody blows a gasket, it's just corny, not offensive. The writers seem to think they're making a left-leaning, toothless version of South Park, except without the topical advantage of fast production time. This is supposed to be a prestige show with a proper story, instead the "stories" are just in service to the blunt political "satire", and I put quotation marks around satire because they're basically just references and aren't particularly funny. The only character left I was remotely interested in was Homelander, but I can't sit through this entire show just for Anthony Starr's performance, as good as it is.
I'd go so far as to say the show diverged from the comics almost from the start by basically sanitizing most if not all of its politics away. The show is just the comic except made by people who are much, much farther right than Garth Ennis and don't really care about people who don't live in the U.S. Just compare their respective presentation of the C.I.A and for that matter The Boys themselves.
Crazy how you're a fan of comics when it's been made clear that the comic is way worse than the show. The main story revolves around Ryan which I don't understand how you fail to see that
Made clear by whom? Ryan doesn't even exist in the comics, so you definitely didn't read them.
Butcher just becomes bloodlusted and tries to everyone, even his friends becomes after getting his revenge on black noire, like how does that sound good to you? Not to mention that homelander can see through everything but zinc, yet he couldn't see black noires face which clearly wasn't made out of zinc lol, the comic is more inconsistent and has far worse writing than the show, nothing really was even done with kimiko and frenchie in the comics in first place either might I add, she doesn't even have a name in the comics. Please tell me why you think the comic is better than the show
Because I read the comics and you didn't. The comic is better than the show. Obviously a late-comer like you who saw the show first and liked it isn't going to be able to see it any other way.
You're refusing to give valid reasoning for liking the comics, and I can just throw good old, vice versa, and say "Oh you read the comics, so of course you think it's better!" So clearly, you just like it for some absurd reason, but you do you, I guess?
I already laid out the reasons, it has a proper story and characters. If you'd like me to address your ridiculous nitpicks, sure, since the comic addresses them if you read them, instead of just reading Wiki pages or show fans synopsis. Butcher's "bloodlust" is set up and telegraphed a mile away in the comics. He is **not** the same cuddly Jack Sparrow character you got in the show. He's a psychopathic East End hardman who terrifies everybody, including his friends. The core story of the comics is the unlikely friendship that forms between Hughie and Butcher, with Hughie's empathy clashing with Butcher's "boys don't cry" all the way through as Butcher tries to turn Hughie into a killer and Hughie tries to pull Butcher away from abyss. Butcher is set up as an extremist who wants to wipe out all supes from the very start in the comics, Becca doesn't just "disappear", she dies right in front of him as Homelander's superpowered baby rips out of her womb, and Butcher then beats it to death. Another key difference is The Boys are supes themselves from the very start, so Butcher's plan to wipe out all supes means his friends have to die, too. It's a great story, Butcher subconsciously wants Hughie to stop him from his genocide plan and kill him, and tragically that is what happens. Homelander has X-ray vision in the comics, that doesn't mean he can magically change depths and make out a face 1mm behind a mask. Looking through Noir's mask he would just see bone. Kimiko and Frenchie were better off without the "character development" the show gave them. The Female, was Kimiko's name in the comics, and she was better the way she was, a mute killing machine. She's a side character, the story is mainly about Butcher and Hughie.
>Kimiko and Frenchie were better off without the "character development" the show gave them. The Female, was Kimiko's name in the comics, and she was better the way she was, a mute killing machine. I'd also like to point out that Kimiko and Frenchie have almost the exact same actual development in the comic, it's just done through like 25 panels across the entire run rather than fucking hours of screentime. Literally most of what's been done with them in the show is just filler for the last two seasons and if it was in the comic too then they'd have been far worse for eating up so much time on nothing.
Filler is exactly right. I got deja vu with Kimiko and Frenchie both "discovering themselves" again. I found both The Female and Frenchie more interesting in the comics, The Female having uncontrollable violent urges that in the show she seems to have just shrugged off to become a quirky, happy Gen Z texter, and Frenchie had a fun angle in the comics where he was so deranged that almost all of his backstory was probably a delusion as an unreliable narrator. Like you say though, in both cases it's done briskly.
Yeah no she didn't, she was being treated like nothing more than a tool to the boys all she does is show up in missions. There is little to nothing actually done with her in the comics, she plays a bigger role in the show. And what you're calling "Filler" isn't even that bad when the comic spends a good hunk of time with a repetitive format of the boys fighting degenerate heros whom are incompetent always trying to make the next supe far worse than the other!
>Yeah no she didn't, she was being treated like nothing more than a tool to the boys all she does is show up in missions. >There is little to nothing actually done with her in the comics, she plays a bigger role in the show. Genuinely just don't talk about the comic if you haven't read it lmao. This is all stuff noted by her and Frenchie, who constantly consider moving on from The Boys throughout the comic and eventually decide to do so before being tragically murdered by Butcher near the end. It's slow burning and done with only a few dozen panels across the run because it's a very basic arc and doesn't demand the exhaustive screen time dedicated to them in the show. In the show this is instead rectified by Kimiko deciding that she won't be a monster, she'll just protect her friend by deliberately over-killing a minimum wage employee in Vought's security team, viciously tearing his face and body apart in a spray of gore and being so distracted by her completely unnecessary torture that she allows Frenchie to be shot by another one she wasn't paying attention to, then never acknowledging this massive fuck up again. >And what you're calling "Filler" isn't even that bad when the comic spends a good hunk of time with a repetitive format of the boys fighting degenerate heros whom are incompetent always trying to make the next supe far worse than the other! Yeah the superheroes are the worst part of the comic, they also take up a fairly small fraction of its screen time and are mostly used to convey information about the actual villain in the form of Vought and their corporate lobbyism. Also Amazon defenders still using this cope after we got the clone rimming scene, lol. Lol the moron blocked me because he thinks my issue with the politically sanitized dogshit Amazon's made is that it has politics in it. No, it should have more politics like the *actually* left wing comic did, instead of this dumbass centrist drivel.
Yeah and that's my point and you clearly missed it lol, butcher has a different reasoning for acting how he does in the show than in the comics why don't you understand that?
You have no point, you're just irrationally upset that I don't like something you like. The further the show went from the comics, the worse it's gotten. Now it's just shit. Butcher is just the boring "scoundrel with a heart of gold" trope in the show, and Hughie is a milquetoast audience surrogate. The comic had actual characters, and a story. I couldn't care less about Ryan, it's just another hammy sideplot with an awkward actor.
>Crazy how you're a fan of comics when it's been made clear that the comic is way worse than the show. People who love the C.I.A and think the pinnacle of evil is Donald Trump making things worse for specifically U.S citizens, I'd guess.
You got me loss, man, no idea what you're talking about, If you're referring to
I'm talking about the adaptation of a source material that frequently emphasises how working with the C.I.A is an immoral thing only done as a reluctant means to an end and how the status quo as it has already existed for years is itself a force of mass suffering and immorality being turned into "the dangers of the orange man who wants to do everything the U.S is already doing except also he'll make things shittier for the privileged Westerners who live within their borders". If you'd actually read the comic you might have noticed such things as the long explanations of Corporate lobbyism, U.S intervention, 9/11 as a rallying cry for illegal wars of aggression that killed hundreds of thousands, etc etc. Virtually all of this is absent from the show, because the show was made by people who are much farther right on the political spectrum than Garth Ennis. The Amazon adaptation is politically sanitised dogshit which carefully *avoids* talking about the issues touched on in the comics in favour of just circlejerking about how Donald Trump specifically is bad. It's a Western-Centric show created to be as inoffensive as possible to all of the people who benefit from Colonialism and Capitalism.
I think people are starting to call out the boys is simply the fact the cool part are turning less cool by every season. No serious a super bang cow in season 1,2 would be really shock, by season 3 4 is just another normal day for the boys universe
“a super bang cow” what? “would be really shock” huh?
I'm considering what you've said but so far the only thing I somewhat agree with is the whole Hughie shoulda known better about V. the abrupt removal of the Kimiko and Frenchie is a little weird too. "I think this season has also significantly ramped up the shock value of the series to the point where it's not really impactful, funny or interesting any more" What about this season makes the shock value bigger? This show has always had a big shock value and I don't see anything about this season that makes it more gratuitous or "jump the shark". I mean, we've had Homelander masturbating to a city in a previous season god damn it! what exactly is it about this season that changes that? admittedly it doesn't always land but it's the staple of the show. "The plot points about her ***aborting Hughie's child*** are also PRETTY FUCKING SIGNIFICANT. So WHY is this arbitrarily thrown out by Firecracker with ABSOLUTELY NO WARNING OR CONTEXT? " Arbitrary? she's using it as a weapon against her that would be a significant issue from the crowd she's drawing out! It seems pretty logical to me that it would come up in this context especially since it's also used as a way for "Sister Sage" to lure a physical altercation to "get back" at Firecracker. I guess you thought it should've been setup in advance but I think that could add to the realness not detract from it. were getting other dramatic reveals about Starlight and Hughie, why is this out of left field compared to those others? Speaking generally about your other complaints, I really enjoy that these characters have something dramatic to deal with this season and I always admire the show being able to find something. As someone else pointed out, a big theme of this season is confronting the best. Overall, I'm enjoying this season quite a bit!
Why do people say that season 4 "Doesn't have a story" And keep comparing it to the comics when two stories kinda basically diverged when Ryan existed? Butcher doesn't cse about killing other superheros as he does in the comics unless he has to or needs to as a job or something. But speaking of hughie. Of course, he knows better about V, but in his current emotional state, he was probably gambling about it, especially with his mother maybe having power over whatever I kinda forgot I just remember hughie being distressed over something. But we already know that hughir acts out of emotion rather than actually thinking
nah its convoluted af. idgaf about frencie/kimikos arc anymore. due to how they fucked up that dynamic
Fucking thank you! I feel like I’m loosing my damn mind with the discourse around this show. People are either criticizing the show because “it’s gone woke” or deflecting any legitimate criticism of this season by going “you just hate it because you’re on the far right”. Which is news to me since I’m a democratic socialist, but apparently being able to criticize a show that agrees with your politically views is not something that can happen anymore. The quality of the writing has fallen off a cliff this season, I don’t care about the political messaging, I care about well writing interesting characters that engage in fun and entertaining activities. Making a character bisexual doesn’t automatically make them interesting! You still need to make them an interesting character. Honestly, I’m about ready to give up on this show, the toxicity around it is too much.
been hate watching since season 2 its been a downward spiral cant wait to rant here once i start s4 everything is gimmicky the writers wanna have their cake and eat it too, character arcs undo themselves there was 1 time an important character died, black noir and their writing is so incompetent they only gave noir a backstory so we care when he gets killed. i can bet you 10 fold that is the only reason they gave him a backstory, so we feel something when homie kills him they cancelled tick season 3 for this edgy crap, only boys s1 compares to tick season 1 and 2
*clears throat, pushes up glasses* “Akhtually, Boys S4 is only up 1 LOTR *extended* edition.”
> Homelander: Great as ever, absolutely psychotic. No other comment. And this is the exact problem. Homelander is pretty much all that the show has going for it and the show knows it.
Y'all really feel so worked up over a show like the The Boys? Truly only season 1 for me was "good". I mean its a superhero show with R rated levels of violence. Even satirically it was only okay from the beginning. Whenever I watch this show its for the amazing effects, world building ( I mean that very loosely haha ) and just how serious they take everything. I love that someone like the Deep is considered this worlds JLA material haha.
Yeah i liked season 3 when it first premiered. Looking back on it now though it wasnt that good. Too bad season 4 is like that. I would also say homelander isnt as invulnerable or special as season 1 made everyone think. Theres a bunch of supes who can hurt him and ways to kill him in general
I recently started the Boys and just got to the 6th episode of season 3. I didn’t know what it was but something seemed off about this season and I think I know what it is after reading your rant. The show runners are no longer writing a story that has an ending in sight but one that they hope to milk for as long as they can. I feel like any good character growth was gone by the mid season point and the scenes that felt shocking have increased. The show is just gonna keep going until it stops making money. Then we might get an ending, which at that point who really wants one?
I feel any series that starts to accumulate a huge list of an ensemble cast falls into the pitfalls of bad story-telling. Cause they are so focused on giving everyone equal screen time that they just end up writing flimsy narratives around all of them. It's honestly also the curse of this need to make hour long shows, where it's no longer a main plot and a B plot, it's more like you have the main plot A and m ain plot B with side plot C and side plot D along with alluding to plot E and F, sprinkling in some G and just for some fun tease in H, I, J and K near the end of the episode. The episodes themselves might feel more satisfying if they were written more tight. Cut down the hour to 30, double the episode count and create a clear focus for each episode, beginning, middle and end where it feels like the ending is satifysing. Like take the Homelander plot in Episode 4, that in itself could of been it's own 30 minute episode shot in a more tense/horror-like vibe where the whole focus is treating Homelander like a horror movie villain as he preys on those who wronged him when he was younger in the research center he was at. Simple changes like that could keep stories interesting cause you also gotta keep in mind in most cases a story that works well tends to keep the focus on say 4-5 characters. In this example I'm using Seinfeld. At it's core it's Jerry, Kramer, George and Elaine, everyone else is a supporting character along with consistent supporting cast like Newman who plays the antagonizing character but from my recollection you never have an episode where he is the main character, he always plays the heel. So basically in Seinfeld's run the story revolves around a combination of those 4 characters and their interaction with other people, but Jerry tends to always be the character in focus. By doing that you can tell tighter stories because your focus is to focus on those 4 characters and to have the other characters work around them however the way people currently write stories in the streaming era is to treat every character like a main character which just dilutes the quality of writing overtime. When you have to give every character a plot and make them feel like the main character and give them enough screentime to make the development impactful, you're going to have to cut corners or inevitably neglect certain characters overtime. However, in times having a large ensemble cast with multiple characters to focus on can work however it's something that needs to be planned ahead of time where it comes seasons down the line when X characters can get the spotlight and Y characters take the side role, From my recollection I would say Shameless did it pretty well, starting with the adults raising the kids and then as they grew up they started taking the spotlight, and while certain characters always had a main focus the ensemble cast I would say was given decent breathing room to develop, granted yes I would say overtime the interracial couple of Kevin and Veronica felt semi-shoehorned in because overtime they felt more like a distraction from the Gallagher family and not actually part of the main narrative. They were a B-Plot that in essence could feel like a different show with how disconnected overtime they became with the family. I guess a better recent one to use that may be semi-fresh in peoples heads is Stranger Things, you have so many different plots taking place at once that just happen to connect near the end but it feels so disjointed it just feels like you are watching 3-4 different shows rather than a single show.
Yep
Couldn't agree more. Once scene that perfectly displays the disappointing writing for season 4 is the "bat scene". It's like the writers were like "we need a scene that'll shock the fans and make the Homelander look evil"... "Oh, I have an idea". Then they came up with that ridiculous scene.
I agree. I enjoyed the first three seasons. I watched the first episode of s4 and could see right away that there is nothing interesting happening here. Homelanders son is a dry character that isn’t well written, I don’t care about him or anything that happens with him. Sister sage is a very 2d character and you can see where her arc is going from a mile away. The Fishboy doesn’t bring anything to the table. Im bored of seeing A-train’s pas ag attitude constantly. The only interesting character is the congresswoman but I stopped caring about her when she became transparent within 20 minutes of the episode. All pretty lame.
Something is off. It's not the MAGA stuff. I find that pretty good. It's Frenchie and kimiko not making sense. It feels like the writing is more for humor. Still fun but it doesn't feel as tightly written
Im finding it super boring. The first 2 episodes were really dull and episode 5 is really dragging. I really don’t care about Huwie’s dad!
To be honest, I think the show is just too long already for the non-existent character development. Even Homelander is a bore by now. I mean the character is great, his psychopathy and need for approval was shown perfectly in season one. But now he's become a caricature of the initial caricature... Now we are TOLD that he needs approval, which cheapens the whole thing. And in every other scene I'm like: Oh, more and more extreme psycho thingies, I'm so suprised... Same with the boys. The conflicts and drama just repeat and seem to get more dysfunctional and less intelligent. By now, Homelander and the boys are out-stupiding each other so nobody kills the other. The politcal messaging has also gotten much less intelligent. Less subtle showing, more slaps over the head...
The main issue of Season 4 is very simple: we are supposed to be at the endgame, but this season feels more like a season 2. (Season 2 felt like a major step back IMO)
its getting to a point where i feel like they should end the show next season
I loved the Boys. It's one of the only current shows where I looked forward to a new season. However, after episode 5 last night I have to tap out. Every character is loathsome at this point. For example, Hughie and Starlight were ordinary heroes trying to make sense of, and survive, in a super-hero world. But now season 4 has Hughie ignoring his dad, who has been eminently ignorable and essentially irrelevant--only to have a convenient plot-stroke. Now Hughie suddenly cares, and is obsessively determined to make up for all the caring he didn't do earlier. (Dude: that is not how it works, not in real life, and not on TV. You care when people are alive. If you only start when they are on the way out, that is performative and way douchier than just sticking to your guns of indifference.) But since we are in season 4 where every decision is not only illogical, but guaranteed to make things worse, Hughie hatches a plan to steal Compound V for his dad. He knows this can have no good outcome. But he guilts A-Train into doing it, because A-Train accidentally killed his girlfriend all those seasons ago. Then his dad proceeds to use a bunch of innocent patients' entrails for slip-n'-slide. And Hughie is fine with it, because he gets to have a teary goodbye with his dad--the same words he could have said without patient viscera if he just returned his phone messages earlier. At this point, Hughie is far worse than A-Train ever was, in that he is not only drenched in the blood of innocents (literally), but he excuses it by reveling in his moralizing wussitude. And Starlight. Whew. Her skills and inspiration as a leader are less than zero. She has no idea what she is doing, or why. The only breaks she takes from walking around weeping and wounded are when she tells other people what they should be doing with their personal lives. And if they used CGI or filters to Kardashian her face: make it stop! She looks terrible, and Michael Jackson wants his nose back. Really all that's left is waiting for Homelander to show the levels of his descent in depravity with tiny facial tics. (If Antony Starr ever takes over the world, we are in for a really entertaining bad time.) Also, the Deep doing funny Deep stuff.
I stopped caring in season 3. Couldn’t even watch Gen V. I’m really tired of literally every hero in the show being a comically evil psychopath Yeah we get it, super heroes suck blah blah blah
well that’s the point of the series, it’s made clear since the beginning…
that becomes a gimmick the way the boys uses it
Shit Gen V in some regards is better than The Boys
Nah, it’s still cooking. I love how it doesn’t stuff
So she aborted hughie's child during the relationship while they were together then broke up with him later or she knew she was pregnant but broke up with him anyway then aborted the child. Either way it's secretive and super disgusting. This loving relationship was nothing but bullshit. It really does a disservice for her character which I never liked by the way. She's always struck me as a useless Mary sue. She's so perfect, she's the victim, don't forget hughie is bad for wanting to help for once.🙄 The whole guilt trip she did to him always made me roll my eyes.
I love that this rant doesn't even touch MM because he's always sucked. Sucked in the comic. Sucked in every season and episode of the show. A perfect example of a character who should have been lost in adaptation. I have enjoyed every season so far but MM could have died at any point and it would have been a positive. Edit: if you like mm tell me why instead of downvotes. Like downvote me if you want but I'd really like to understand what MM enjoyers think because he's just so fucking boring to me and has nothing to say or do.
Of all the stuff mentioned in this thread, this is the most true, MM was great in the 1st season and was okay in the 3rd, tbh I don't even remember him much from the 2nd. But this season his character feels boring, he doesn't even seem to contribute much besides saying "hey I'm the leader". I'm not sure if they are setting something big up for him or what but I hope he gets more energy
No, he soldier my goat soldier boy racist. He was clearly not racist. MM can die.
Too long , didn’t read
Then why comment?
i wish i could hand you a gun