If they removed all the sketchy shit, the show would be this awesome fantasy/adventure, that delves into more slice of life stuff in season 2. But alas, that shit is still there.
S2 is so weird.
It feels (for the most part) like a completely different show, and honestly I think we could have gotten to the same outcome now without all the weird shit in S1.
I mean, Roxy is one of the best characters in the story. If you mean the pedophile stuff about Rudeus as a character, yeah. It's one of the base parts of why he is a major fuck up
I think people miss out on the fact that his sexual deviancy gets better as his overall mental health and understanding of people gets better.
The fact current rudy feels as if he should punch himself in the past says a lot...
Does it say a lot though?
Like pedophilia is an intensely hard topic to write about, but would Lolita really be a great book if instead of Humbert dying in prison he instead married Dolores and said "Man I was a little creepy back then wasn't I?"
By the way. Not even pedo related (again, crazy to say) but another thing I notice is how everyone is so fucking ridiculously chill about cheatin
Not one but two arcs where a guy cheats and the happy ending to this is "and he gets TWO WIVES, so cool"
I say people justifying this with "it was like this during medieval times" and it's like....yes, men cheated and took their cheating partners as concubines.
And it sucked. They were usually relationships based on abuse, either physical (if you don't accept this,I gonna beat you), emotional (if you leave, then you're gonna be a used good that nobody else will marry) or economical (leave and I will ruin your family bussiness).
So using the "historically accurate" argument is even worse because those relationships were extremely abusive IRL
I see the argument that counts as polyamory or ethical non monogamy, but every ethical non monogamy person I've met notes how those should NEVER start as result of cheating because then it's just gaslighting
Absolutely this as well.
Isekai fans use "The world is like that!" as an excuse for everything under the sun. But never seem to ask the question "Why did the author write the world like that? Why are they writing these particular scenes?"
>By the way. Not even pedo related (again, crazy to say) but another thing I notice is how everyone is so fucking ridiculously chill about cheatin
The worst thing is that it totally make sense that they accepted it
Silphy was groomed so hard from young age that basically would accept everything to make Rudeus happy
Roxy has a self esteem so low that she accept without a problem to be the second wife (but I don't think that she would have accepted the situation if she was the first)
spoiler for the events of a future season >!Eris whole life is revolved around Rudeus so much that just to be by his side she accept the situation because she arrived to late!<
The author is legit a good writer sadly he isn't a good person in the same way the author of Made in abyss isn't
>Not one but two arcs where a guy cheats and the happy ending to this is "and he gets TWO WIVES, so cool"
It was either that or leave one of the woman to die in the winter while already pregnant.
Plus lets not forget that zenith never actually forgave paul, he got 2 wives but they literally never had sex with him again and he essentially lost all his respect.
Hmmm, you're right, the real, living person made an irreversible mistake and took the best option available to him as a fallible, limited human. It's not like the creator of his world made him do that and could just as easily have made him not do that.
And what is wrong with that? There were still consequences and paul is not held as the good guy...
Like what do want to happen? For him to lose one them in tragic accident and have to go on an insufferable journey to save zenith where he gets physically and emotionally beaten? Oh wait thats exactly what happens and idk if you saw the last episode of the anime but hoo boy paul really gets some "consequences" beaten into him...
Like yall are more focused on being angry and hold fictional characters to real life standards than to actually analyze the story.
And it would be one thing if yall kept it to yourselves but nope, gotta make a rant about it every week, aggressively persist on the same overs used points and make a downvoting tirade on anyone who disagrees despite it literally being against the rules of this sub (and the mods as always dont do shit about it).
If you're getting cranky and exhausted from running up and down this thread defending pedo shit, you could always just... stop? You know, if you wanted. Nobody would be mad if you stopped chastising people for wanting to change a story by removing the pedo shit from it.
Why don't you stop arguing in bad faith and ignoring arguments? Is it that had to debate within the rules of the sub and be nice to others?
Yall are ones getting too rilled up over a fictional story and treating it as if its a criminal record...
You literally entirely ignored what happened in the story to paul and is now trying to make it personal, please bring an argument.
Its crazy how Im not attacking anyone, not downvoting anyone, not committing any crime, telling any lies and yet Im still somehow in the wrong in your head.
"Its crazy how Im not attacking anyone"
"And it would be one thing if yall kept it to yourselves but nope, gotta make a rant about it every week, aggressively persist on the same overs used points and make a downvoting tirade on anyone who disagrees despite it literally being against the rules of this sub"
I'm not sure how your first paragraph changes anything?
"He got better though!" is still bad writing if you dedicate a considerable amount of your early story to a pedophile and never actually address it as a flaw. Especially if that story is going to give him multiple children as love interests early on, doubly so if the author decides one of the love interests is going to retain a childs body.
My guy, at this point you are just frustrated the story isnt about what you want it to be and not analyzing the character...
Look at where he is right now, he is literally helping save his mom, he is making efforts to help his sister not become isolated like he was in his previous life, he is married and with an child on the way.
Well... Unironically yeah?
If it had not had so much positive framing of pedophilia, or had actually delved into it as an issue then I might have a better opinion of it.
I don't dislike Rudy the character, I dislike *Mushoku Tensei* the story.
But I think with media it's always worth analysing what works and what doesn't work. To me there are lots of things with MT's writing surrounding pedophilia that doesn't work, Roxy having a childlish body for example feels like just an excuse to give Rudy a love interest with a childs body who wont age out of it for the duration of the story.
I disagree. I think it does.
When Rudy nearly has sex with Eris for example:
* There are multiple lingering shots of her on the bed where the only thing in frame is parts of her body
* The music is jovial rather than ominous
* The colors are soft rather than dark or harsh
* Rudy excitedly says "My first time could be with a haughty loli!"
* Eris as a child has developed feelings for Rudy, and continues to develop them after this point.
To me that's clear positive framing. You have an established love interest, a sex scene setup, and then a progression in the relationship.
And this is not just cinematic incompetence, because MT knows how to frame a scene negatively. Take Rudy's traumatic memory of being forcefully undressed by his classmates
* Music is ominous
* Colors are dark
* Faces are in shadow
* Voice acting is sadistic
There's a pretty clear difference in the techniques used. One is a positive love plot progression, one is a traumatic memory of having a persons naked body abused.
Yea I pointed that out myself In the past. We are expected to be horrified at his own experience with sexual assault but ignore him doing similar stuff in his new life. MT a show that honestly gets very uncomfortable to watch
That scene wasnt meant to be "wow, rudeus is based for it." It is "Rudeus is so disconnected from reality that he thinks he is the main character of a porn game."
Furthermore, a recurring thing about the story as a whole is how *because* Rudeus' experiences in his past life and his new life are conflicting with each other. In the early life, he acted like he had main character syndrome and could get away with bullshit, but once the teleportation incident forces him to mature, those aspects of his personality start taking a backseat. And every time Old Rudeus personality showed up, it was always treated as him fucking up his relationships.
That comparison you gave, while I totally get someone not liking the show because of it, it's like watching Moral Orel and thinking the show was saying the adults were good, because Orel respected them in the first season
>If it had not had so much positive framing of pedophilia
The story does not do this. Rudy himself doesnt frame it negatively while he's doing it (obviously), and like, maybe one or two of the nobles, WHO ARE OBVIOUSLY TERRIBLE PEOPLE IN OTHER SCENARIOS AS WELL, frame it "positively". The only other person I can remember being "positive" about it was Eris' dad. You know, the guy who raped a bunch of beast-women.
But the story frames it as worthy of punishment. Rudy gets his ass beat every time he pervs on Eris, for YEARS.
And Rudy later regrets all the shit he did.
>The story does not do this.
I disagree. I think finding excuses to put the child characters in somewhat lewd scenes early on is neutral to positive framing.
E.g.
* Rudy steals Roxies panties, framed as funny
* Rudy undresses Sylphie, framed as funny
* Rudy almost has sex with Eris, framed as a good but awkward step towards their future relationship
I think they're portrayed as positive largely because all the anime traits of positive or humerous scenes are at play. There's no dutch angles, no ominous music, no dark colors...
And we know that MT uses those classic things to frame a scene as negative because it actually does it when it's doing other negative scenes. (E.g. contrast how Rudy feels about being forcefully undressed VS how Sylphie being undressed is framed)
> Rudy gets his ass beat every time he pervs on Eris
I do not think Eris playing into the tsundere trope is "Punishment" him being "Beat up" is part of the trope. Like she does still fall in love with him while she's a child.
If you aren't going to analyze the story and just keep delving on how you wish it were then you aren't necessarily criticizing something, you are just trying to change it to something else.
The story isn't about pedophilia, therefore it wont focus on it the way you want it to, the protagonist has loads of other conflicts to solve and over as I said about, as his mental health and social life gets better his issues with pedophilia also get better and vanish.
Ya know like many irl peter pan syndrome man child who are lonely and act as if they are still high schoolers despite being 30 and unemployed...
People kinds miss this factor of rudeus despite it being a core feature of his growth.
>The story isn't about pedophilia, therefore it wont focus on it the way you want it to
Well my bar here for any show that deals with pedophilia is pretty low I think.
* Does it portray it as negative?
* Are there consequences for the character?
In MT's story the answer is a solid no. In fact it has a pretty large amount of lewd scenes with childrens bodies on screen.
That to me is principally a negative. To me that makes it a bad show because it dedicates a pretty considerably amount of it's early storytelling to giving the lead character ways to uncritically indulge his fantasies
> as his mental health and social life gets better his issues with pedophilia also get better and vanish.
Right. And I think that is an absolutely terrible story.
"The pedophile went on an adventure and when he learned the power of self confidence he got better!"
"Oh did he like, stop dating the one who had a childs body then?"
"No they got married."
>Does it portray it as negative?
Yes, because rudy is fully acknowledged by the story to be a deplorable loser.
If you disagree with that then are basically complaining that the story doesn't bash on him enough or doesn't have a narrator in the background constantly reminding us that rudy is hiki incel bum who sees people as objects.
And even then the novels do that lot too and make him even more deplorable in the early stages of the story.
>Are there consequences for the character?
I don't think consequences are a low bar, if we look at the amount of stories that have no consequences to crimes and bad actions.
Plus what consequences would happen while still preserving the path the story takes?
Is rudy being called a pervert, being beat up by eris, having his father scold him, having his father try to separate him from his friends so he learns to be more independent and let go of his obsession with sylphie, the whole situation with regretting sleeping with eris due to the emotional trauma, ruijerd calling rudy out whenever he acts with perverted intentions.
Are these not consequences or just not consequences you like because you don't think they are severe enough? But if they are not severe enough what would a good consequence be?
Plus regardless of consequences, is rudy not ever feeling interest in girls good enough? Is him rejecting a girl due to hear being too young and explaining to her why it is wrong not good enough? (The anime has yet to arrive in that part) Is rudy being a good older brother that protects his little sisters and takes care of them without doing anything abusive not good enough?
At most you can objectively complain is that it feels off that he had these types of perversions and they dont get addressed with formal professional therapy or jail like it would happen in real life, but the fact is that they went away as he himself grew beyond his peter man syndrome, isolation, lazyness, became less closed minded, selfish and learned to see people as more than just objects.
So then again you are just frustrated the story isn't told the way you like.
>He never regretted trying to groom the white hair girl,
Look at how their romance develops and see it for yourself, he is very caring and even apologies about the bath scene.
>never regrets groping Eris as a child
Not a spoiler since it covers the first e eps but after eris leaves rudy has a massive arc about his regrets with his relationship with eris and gets traumatized by it, he thinks eris hates him and that he is not good enough for her, this also develops in him having erectile dysfunction and he spends years depressed about it...
>the stuff he did in his past life.
Thats has to do at a further point in season two which I wont spoil.
>Doesn’t regret tying up and sexually assaulting the cat girls.
Ruijerd literally scolds him for it and eris also knocks some sense into him...
>I don’t know if he became a better person or if everyone just over look these things.
To be fair part of the MT experience is judging rudy based on his actions and thoughts, season 2 more is about growth and maturity, and not he doesn't completely grow up in season 2, there is more story than that, but thats the season with the most progress within his arc and when he learns to see people as people.
>he is taking actions to make the white hair chick dependent on him and he doesn’t regret this. It got so bad his father separated them but he doesn’t actually regret this.
He suffered consequences for it, paul literally says that he sent rudy away because he and sylphie were becoming too dependant on each other...
>Him developing abandonment issues does not equal regretting groping Eris. I have seen the arc and never once does he reflect on the sexual assault he did to her as a child. If he really did spend time reflecting on this, he wouldn’t have tie up the cat girls and grope them as well.
He literally tried to reject eris and way for when they were both of age... You dont even need to see that arc to notice rudy grew up a bit.
>Doesn’t regret tying up and sexually assaulting the cat girls.
And he gets punished for it...
>I am talking about the cat girls in part 2 who he ties up and gropes. The one that the white girl helps him get away with. If he really was trying to become a better person he would quit doing stuff like this.
Oh, them, my guy these girls were massive bullies and they would assault and beat up people all over the academy, rudeus did that to humiliate and knock them down a peg.
They were ruthless jerks especially in the novels.
I seriously wonder what you think about the first 7 seconds of this video
https://youtube.com/shorts/1T7VgITzXS8?si=JczdZWrQSPnXzAKG
Yep like I said before in another reply, Im not attacking anyone, Im not telling any lies, Im not downvoting anyone (which btw is against the rules of this sub) and Im not commiting any crimes, heck Im not even ignoring or twisting any arguments.
And yet Im the one being seen as the bad guy...
No, are still watching the anime? He is literally helping save his mom, he is making efforts to help his sister not become isolated like he was in his previous life, he is married and with an child on the way.
The way this anime makes people root for Epstein because it focuses on his career and good deeds while he keeps doing heinous shit is so disgusting, and makes people rooting for Hitler on AoT look tame
Ah yes, a girl he was friends with for a year, then separated for 10ish years, was definitely groomed by him.
Rudy later rejects Eris for a while. If he groomed her, he would've been jumping at the chance to be back with her.
He doesn't date any of them when they are children, he always got scolded by paul and ruijerd whenever he acted upon his pervertedness, eris would beat him up, paul and zenith literally sent rudeus away to work so he could become less dependent of sylphie especially because paul noticed Rudy was getting too close to her.
He does have sex with eris at one point but because she forced him to, he tried to rejected her and he also regret it and had traumas from it.
And when they were children everyone around rudy called out his pervertedness, some beat him up over it, his parents literally made him start working in another country to get his mind of them.
Here is the thing, the story doesn't DIRECTLY treat it but it does DO something about it.
And overall thats because nobody knows rudeus is reincarnated person, therefore there is no way for the characters in world to know and here is the thing they eventually do discover but by that point rudy is a completely different person from where he started and has zero pedophilic tendencies.
Yes. It'd make him a better person immediately, which would ruin the path to becoming one.
The Loli shit could be perceived as weird depending on how old you see him as, but it's required for the story to be told
Hard disagree, none of the shows actual plot surrounds his pedophilia (Except to indulge him early on with love interests all of which coincidentally fit his perversions), and other than a throaway line much later where he goes "Wow, its weird that I am not attracted to *this* child" it doesn't really develop, certainly not as a focus.
The actual plot parts of Rudy's development surrounds selfishness, and yeah that could absolutely be done without the pedophilia.
He's supposed to be the typical worst version of a weeb. If you're online at all, which clearly you are, you see the stereotype CONSTANTLY that they're pedos.
It's a terrible, inaccurate stereotype, but it exists
But what does it actually do with the stereotype?
* It gives him a bunch of scenes indulging in it, giving him child love interests
* As he grows up he marries said love interests, one of which maintains a childs body
* Much later in the story he eventually says "Wow I'm not even attracted to this child. I definitely would have been earlier though"
To me that... Just isn't really a compelling delve into online weeb pedophilia. Like what does it say about it? Kind of nothing... In fact it spends more time indulging it than it does commenting on it.
Part of me wonders if Rudy would have still said that if he didn't have his wives and kids. Like if he was still alone during that point in the story, would he have still rejected the offer?
Because it honestly feels like the message doesn't land when he already has what he wants.
Without spoiling details, a little girl wants him later and he not only rejects her but it's a whole deal that he tries to make her understand that it would be wrong.
If we are talking about >!Eris!< then yeah, the fact that he actually rejected her at all BLEW my mind. Fuck Turning points, THAT was the biggest plot twist of the series.
But if he absolutely never improves in that aspect and it's never brought up (specifically the pedo part, not just his pervyness) then what difference does it make to the story?
Stop lying. He doesn’t improve, the narrative rewards him by giving him an eternally child wife. He has a child with his first wife when she’s *fifteen*.
So let me get this straight...
When he's an adult in a child's body, he's a pedo for being with children because he is an adult
But when SHE is an adult in a child's body, he is a pedo because she is a child???
What are you even talking about? Per the wiki, he had a child with a child in a child’s body. And since Rudy as a baby is perving over his very own mother, we know he’s mentally an adult, as a baby wouldn’t have those urges.
So he never improves, he’s literally given child wives instead.
Rudy is still a bad person without the loli shit. In fact the show tackles everything about his bad character traits besides him being into Lolis ( which is treated more as a joke) so you’re really losing nothing.
I think the problem with discourse surrounding Mushoku Tensei is fans are convinced self improvement in one avenue is actually self improvement in every avenue, or even a form of redemption.
Rudy does go from loser to hero... But Rudy overcoming his own anxieties is not him or the show actually addressing his flaws. Its self improvement in the most basic wish fulfilment form, "What if I was cooler than I am now"
I think much of it comes down to how desensitized you are to sexual scenes in anime as well, to a lot of people I think they register Rudy's pedophilia more as a "Yeah anime is weird sometimes" type thing rather than as an actual problem (If they'll even admit that Rudy is an adult at all ofc)
nope what started the tropes was familar of zero
Edit: fun factz the Familiar of Zero and its fan fiction helped pioneer and popularize the isekai genre in web novels and light novels, along with the website Shōsetsuka ni Narō."
Yeah I dunno how this rumor even started, considering re zero was released 7 months prior to mushoku tensei and got an anime adaptation way earlier than it
The person who lacked power, attractiveness, a loving family, purpose, talent, etc. grew into a shitty person. He got picked on, humiliated, isolated, abandoned, etc.
Even though he grew into the worst version of himself, he still died to save someone else. There's something still in him.
And when he's given a second chance, a new life, he takes advantage of the chance he's given and strives to become a better version of himself. He works hard, tries to be good to people, learns from his mistakes, etc.
Rudeus developed into the type of person who can save the type of person he started as. That's a huge development from his start.
In the school arc, he basically runs the place. He has power over others, and he's free to do whatever he wants. He could fuck every animal-girl he sees and bully people he doesn't like. But what does he do? He makes friends, some of them total weirdos, and he genuinely cares for them and they care for him. He's respected and cherished. If he didn't develop into a much better version of himself, then that would never happen.
Sure, he was given privileges that he never had in his first life. But is that a knock against the story, or an intentional aspect of the story?
Why do you think he got bullied in the first place? If he had all those privileges from the start, he never would've became the person he was in his first life.
And if he wasn't the type of person who wanted to improve, then he would've used those privileges he gained in bad ways. But that's not what we see, is it?
From the very first episode, we see Rudeus working his ass off. He learns how to read, studies and practices constantly, and so on. If he never applied himself before he even knew he had overpowered magic, then he would've become a middling swordsman like Paul wanted. Don't mistake the things Rudeus achieved for himself as privileges.
I am reminded of a quote from Haikyuu: "Talent is something you make bloom. Instinct is something you polish."
Privileges are only part of the equation. Work to your strengths. Work is the key word, the point of the quote above. Rudeus worked and earned his character development, earned his place in the world, earned the love and praise he receives as the person he is now.
> The person who lacked power, attractiveness, a loving family, purpose, talent, etc. grew into a shitty person. He got picked on, humiliated, isolated, abandoned, etc.
I think you misunderstood this part of the story (or perhaps just phrased it weirdly).
Rudy was from a wealthy and loving family. He was also pretty smart. He already had privilege in his previous life. However, he made all the wrong choice to throw it all away to the point where he lost everything and then died.
In his second life he also has privileges, even more than in his first life, but this time he isn't wasting them. That's why the most powerful moments in mushoku are those where we get a parallel of his current life to his previous one, and we see how this time he chooses the "right" hard way.
He had a friend that he had a fight with? In the past he didn't do anything to mend that relationship. This time he does put in the effort to make up with paul, and understands how that friend felt through his own actions.
His parents loved him and did everything they could for him, how does he repay them? In the past he didn't talk with them, he didn't even go to their funeral. In the present, he is devastat by Paul's death and zenith's condition and finally understands what it means to have family.
He is in depression and wants to remain holed up in his room? In the past he did exactly that. In the present, he finds in him the strength to "wake up and take a step".
These are just a few of the examples meant to show that Rudy's conditon in his past life was mainly because of his choices, not because of bad luck or lack of privilege
Ah, fair. I view the people from his past life negatively, since they failed to save him and eventually stopped reaching out. It's his fault as well, of course. Thing is, we see him able to save his sister from the same fate. It's not an entirely fair comparison, but at the end of the day they did fail to get through to him.
Then there's scenes like when Roxy got Rudeus to leave the house for the first time, or when Paul and Rudeus were learning from each other as father and son. We don't really see moments like those from his first life, or at least they aren't emphasized in the storytelling in a way that I remember.
> Thing is, we see him able to save his sister from the same fate. It's not an entirely fair comparison, but at the end of the day they did fail to get through to him.
I think it's bias because this isn't even up to interpetation. Rudy himself said that norn has done what he didn't mange to do in more than a decade, and then says that if Nanahoshi ever manages to go back, he will give her a message for his brother (to thank him).
Rudy went to norn once, and that was enough to break her out of her isolation. Rudy stayed in that state for decades, and we have scenes of his brother trying to reach out, his friend trying to cheer him up, or his parents trying to console him. It is his own fault for not accepting their help, not theirs for not trying hard enough (especially since his parents continued to support him financially, bring him meals and so on for more than a decade). Fault is a pretty big word though ans i wouldn't say that it's somebody's fault for not quickly getting over mental trauma, but the point still stands.
The point is, rudy says it himself that it wasn't him that saved her, norn came back from that state all on her own. It is therefore misguided to blame his family for not managing to bring him back in the real world
I mean I think Norn is just a way stronger person than past Rudeus.
We saw in the very same episode that his brother constantly try to reach out to him the same way Rudeus tries to reach out to Norn. The only difference is Norn chose to take her brother's hand while Rudeus didn't.
Past Rudeus simply didn't try, and he regrets it everyday.
>I mean I think Norn is just a way stronger person than past Rudeus.
Well yeah, nord wasn't stripped naked, tied up to the front of the school gate and then got beat up, taken photos of and had people laugh and draw things on his body...
Like I think people forget why rudy didn't try and why he was so traumatized.
Its crazy that people in this comment section are saying he was privileged, yes he had good and relatively wealthy family, but he was still ugly, got dealt a very shitty hand in his school life.
Sure he was not outright oppressed by society but he was privileged if had to face this kind of shit, sure in his new life its reasonably fair to say he is privileged, heck the fact that reincarnates is a privilege...
> but he was still ugly, got dealt a very shitty hand in his school life.
Both of these are a result of his own actions. He was pretty smart but since middle school he stopped paying attention to school to play on his computer and other similar things, so he had bad grades and only made it to one of the worst high schools in his region (hence why his bullying was so extreme, because the school was full of delinquents).
That's why when he is very young in his new life he analyzes what he failed before and begins taking his sword trianing and magic training seriously, because that's what spiraled his previous life down
My guy how is being a lazy student a fair point to say that being stripped naked and tied up to the front of the school gate serves as a consequence of his own actions!?
I think you entirely missed the point.
Rudy in his previous life was privileged by being wealthy and pretty intelligent, but instead of making use of them, he wasted his middle school years and ended up in the worst high school from his region (where the worst delinquents from the region were).
Rudy was born even more privileged in his second life, but if he chose to not train diligently in magic and with a sword, he would have very well ended up being teleported in a random place where he is used as a sex slave (as the other kid from the village that bullied silphy ended up after the fittoa mass teleportation).
What separated his two life wasn't privilege, it was his different mentality.
>Rudy in his previous life was privileged by being wealthy and pretty intelligent, but instead of making use of them, he wasted his middle school years and ended up in the worst high school from his region (where the worst delinquents from the region were).
This does not make the criminal lvls of bullying he suffered his fault...
>What separated his two life wasn't privilege, it was his different mentality.
But thats something entirely different.
I literally explained what happened to rudy, you said with your own words that he brought it upon himself by being a lazy student which led him to go to a bad school but like, the fact that he got bullied to this lvl has nothing to do with his own actions, its not his fault the school was this permissive to delinquents, its not his fault delinquents exist, its not his fault his parents in no moment noticed his falling performance and did nothing significant about it, its not his fault the people at his school were this lvl of awful.
He could have gone to that bad school, and still not suffered that bullying, in the same way that he could be just as lazy in his second life and be teleported to a good place like sylphie was and become a royal escort.
None of the stuff that happened there boils down to rudeus own actions, its literally because he was terribly unlucky.
Like I get your point, his change in mentality is what allowed him to persist and get help to be a somewhat better person, but still he did not get bullied because of his own actions, he got bullied because the world is crappy and he was too naive as a child to realize that going to a bad school would increase the odds of him facing criminal lvls of bullying.
Did you forget to read the part about the other kid from the village? Bad things happen to everybody, what matters is how you respond to them. Why do you think season 1 episode 23 had a lot of explicit parallels between that event and rudy becoming a shut it? Because it's practically the same thing, but rudy found the strength in himself to "wake up and take a step" as the episode is named.
You are talking about luck as if adversity doesn't exist in everybody's life. No matter who you are or where you are from, you have faced adversity in your life. Some people lose everything and find the means to make a life again, some people have a break up and never recover.
Rudy wasn't unphased by his original parents because he was hanged naked in front of the school, he was unphased because he was genuinely an imature "bad" person. When paul died he didn't fall into depression because he was privileged in this world, he fell into depression because he bas matured and became emotionally aware.
The last time they saw each, they were like 4, tho? Then, didn't see others for like 10-12 years? How is that grooming? It's not. Now, Eris can count. You don't even know the definition of grooming
Rudeus was 7 years old. When he was sent to eris and he met sylphy at the age of 5 when roxy left him . He spent two years of his with her . 7 to 13 , he spent that time with eris before she went to train .
This is how you know people didn't read the story or just didn't pay attention and are just talking out of their ass.
The way you are talking is as if Rudy was trying to groom her the moment they met when he didn't even know Sylphy was a girl.
He knew she was a girl for a year and then got sent to the Boreas house. After that, 9 years passed, and he met Sylphy again. They didn't see each other for 9 years, and yet you are still claiming he somehow groomed her? How can he groom people telepathically?
And you are the one not paying attention to the story it seems . Rudeus becomes a water saint at the age of 5 (Lucy said this in redundancy). Roxy promotes him . After that he meets sylphie and spends two years with her . Then, he got shipped to eris, and we know what happens .
You are pulling your accusations out of your ass. When did I say sylphie was actively groomed . I said that sylphie started loving him even when they were in village . And yes buddy , I have read the story after volume 14 many times . You can legit ask me anything post tp4 and I will answer everything you want . Just because I point out disgusting things about this story doesn't mean I have not read the story.
Sylphie was not groomed. You don't even know what grooming is.
You obviously read with your ass cheeks and not your eyes if these is what your takes are.
Sylphi had a crush on him, so what? All kids have one. He left her for almost 10 years. Pray tell, how did he groom her? There is no way he could have groomed sylphie
Having affair with a kid whom you spent two years definitely raises some questions . And sylphie loved him . She legit was having wet dreams about him even before meeting him y ou fucking dork . She when she saw him first in the university legit got her knee tremble. It's written in ln 26 when they were describing his personality. Roxy and and eris never had such reaction to his face
And you are the one not paying attention to the story it seems . Rudeus becomes a water saint at the age of 5 (Lucy said this in redundancy). Roxy promotes him . After that he meets sylphie and spends two years with her . Then, he got shipped to eris, and we know what happens .
He didn't. But sylphy did , didn't she ?? .That's the reason she was having wet dreams about him even before meeting him university. And rudeus as soon as he found out who sylphy was, got sexually involved with her. He legit says says she might have lingering feeling towards him from their shared time in the village(Light novel 9) Which proves my point right that she got in love with him in the village .
Especially when you compare EoS Rudeus and the BoS Rudeus, they’re worlds apart with ending Rudeus constantly risking his life for his new family, admonishing his past, and overall becoming a good person.
I can understand not liking early Rudeus and disliking how some of his actions are laughed off (most likely due to Japans different sense of humor). I’d definitely hate an IRL early Rudeus but it really does hit different when you see how ending Rudeus is so different and how he behaves.
I never really saw Mushoku Tensei as a story of redemption because it’s not like he can ask forgiveness or help his original family (he was a huge PoS to them) considering he can’t at all go back to Earth. He also actively helps his new friends and family, constantly risking his life for them. But saying he doesn’t grow as a character is actively false and it really is night and day comparing BoS and EoS Rudeus.
Mushoku no Tensei being a redemption story is the biggest lie anyone ever told. It starts to with a pedo jacking his meat to an infant, and ends with a adult man who successfully groomed 3 childrens. No amount of redemption arcs would change that. I don't care if you support loli shit, but please don't paint this anime as something it is not.
If a girl looks 10 then i don't care that she is a 500 old vampire loli dragon. If you want to make excuses for Rudeus because he is no longer a 30 old dude, then maybe don't start the story with him jacking off to literal infant. I have no idea what Mushoku author had in his mind when he was writing this story. Was Rudeus being a pedo supposed to be relatable, or what?
can't you see what you wrote? you don't care that Roxy is 500 years old because she looks 10 years old, but that doesn't apply to Rudeus, and besides, the action with the infant is from a web novel which is a rejected version of the story
The problem is that Eris is not a 500 year old dragon. That girl is fucking 10 when Rudeus was groping her. She later on became his wife that he groomed. Mushoku no Tensei fans are as delusional, as the show they are watching.
I mean, saying MT isnt about character development is a huge stretch.
If you want to say the development was facilitated by becoming an op isekai protagonist, sure, totally agree. I also think its fair to not like the main character. Not liking the series at all is totally valid. But lets not pretend theres NO character development.
Also, that is a gross misuse of that quote. If you took away Tony's bank acount, iron man suits, intelligence, and all the connections hes made in his life, hed have nothing too.
If you JUST took away Rudeus's magic powers and family connections, he'd still be happily married with a child on the way, a respected researcher at the most prestigious university in the world, and taking on the responsability of raising his sisters while his parents are away. Hes actually doing fine dude... at least where im at in the series. could change. Thats how development works.
Well that’s a bad comparison.
Tony is a large reasons as to why stark industries is so successful and well known in the first place. Tony is not man made in the traditional sense ( he started from money obviously) but he quadruple his wealth with his own ideas, work ethic, and intelligence
My point is that OP is only taking away Iron Man's suit while leaving him a supergenius billionaire with all the connections in the world. He then took Rudy's friends, family, powers, and made him ugly to boot.
Like, how is that a comparison. You either JUST take away their powers, in which current (anime) Rudy actually passes the test quite well, or go overboard like they did in op and even tony looks like shit.
It could and maybe it is a bad comparison. But if i meet rudeus i will ask him about this, i want his answers, i wonder what he thought about it.
It is also probably not a fair comparison. But it's a question that could be asked either way. The same way when tom holland spiderman said he's nothing without his suit.
No that's a good comparison
OP is taking away rudeus' competence while not doing the same with iron man.
>Tony is not man made in the traditional sense ( he started from money obviously) but he quadruple his wealth with his own ideas, work ethic, and intelligence
That's the same with rudeus, he started with high potential but became so good because of his hardwork and willingness to explore in a world with limited resources.
Mushoku Tensei fans always work themselves stupid trying to justify why they like a show with gross shit in it when it's not necessary. That's why you see lies like the story being about redemption from them.
Disagree
I've red most of the web novel like 2 years ago, but growing up I started to dislike the series for the obvious things like pedophilia and grooming
Mushoku Tensei is a story about having a second chance in life, he obviously has the privilege to have memories of his past life so he could grind earlier than the others while also not facing consequences for his past action, but the story doesn't end here, he had similiar situation as his past life but he overcome them
The difference between Rudeus and his past self (that I will call Goku in this comment because I really like Goku, and Rudeus true name wasn't ever revealed) is the way they react to life.
both Rudeus and Goku had traumas, Rudeus He faced them and overcame them, thanks to the help that their loved one offered to him, Goku escaped from his traumas and remained closed in his room and refused the help from people that deeply cared about him
Rudeus and Goku were both very gifted from young age, but the former continued to improve himself, the latter believed to be better than everyone around him so he stopped trying till he was behind
Spoiler season 2 >!despite Goku parent loving him he didn't care enough about them and decided to ditch his parents funeral to masturbate on pedo shit, Rudeus despite the many errors that his father did to him he emphasized with him, he knew how he feeled and gave him a second chance and created a bond even stronger, and after his death he was deeply affected by it!< spoiler things that I guess will happen on the next episode of season 2 (I am keeping up with the series only through random Facebook post) >!and he gotten over his trauma by cheating on his wife, with a girl who will forever have the body of a middle school age girl🙏🙏!<
Goku didn't care about his physical appearance, Rudeus work out regularly, has a good diet, and try several hair cut through the series
It's a hentai that tries to pretend that it's a redemption story. It's just a well written hentai power fantasy. When you see it like this, it makes a lot more sense.
The author just put his ultimate fantasies, mainly sexual, and make readers to agree with him.
Only thing he has as a privilege aside from reincarnated is a good face and near infinte flexible mana capacity.
The good face... It's genes bro there's nothing we can do about it 🚬┐(´ー｀)
The power he currently has only came from his experience and willingness to go forward. I especially like the fact that his near infinte mana he has is only achieved by him training to expand his mana pool. All the spells he used is nothing flashy nor powerful. They are just effective. Heck, we've only seen him use a saint ranked spell two times.
He didn't get any op powers that will bend reality nor god killing abilities. His only power up was a future sight eye, and it was an advice from hitogami. >! For Rudeus to trust him more !<
Sure you may be correct about Rudeus having a better set from birth than the others, that being having a developed mind and a big mana pool. But what do all those things do when he faced Orsted.
...
If you take Rudeus' privileges... What would he be?
Take away his mana capacity... It still won't change the fact he wants to learn magic. And he would also discover how to use chantress spells.
Take away the developed mind and the story won't be here anymore.
Take away the people that care for him. Roxy, she never met Rudeus. Rudeus then won't leave the house. He will never go explore the new world he was born in. He will never live his second life fully. He will only keep taking things for granted. He will never move past intermediate stage in magic. He will never survive the mana disaster.
Without Ruijerd to save him and Eris in demon continent, the MT story will close in 3 volumes.
Nobody will take interest in a character who never progress.
...
What makes MT story good is that, It's not about gaining privileges. It's about using them to their fullest. Not taking things for granted.
🧚♂️✨ metaphor ✨
In a plane full of people digging down for treasure with their hands. Rudeus only got a gardening spoon shovel. Only using that he dug like others. Others found their treasures first before Rudeus and they were only using their hands. Rudeus may have better digging tool than others, but he may find his treasure later than others.
~~I am a terrible metaphor maker~~
In the end... MT isn't just about MC getting things from a sliver plate. He had to face risks. The sliver plate can turn into a feces bowl any moment. He have to learn to treasure it, to protect it.
But goddamn Rudeus is a slow learner. He just now realized how important Paul was to him. And he only knows it after he lost Paul.
Doesn't matter how anyone tries to explain it. Some people will see it as growth and development as a person where others will forever hate MT because of the mc. You'd be hard pressed to find someone willing to change their mind about this anime.
I think it is a story of redemption and development (I read the LN so it might be different from the anime/manga) the issue here isn't that he doesn't evolve and improve as a person it's that he isn't punished for being the person he was previously.
>the issue here isn't that he doesn't evolve and improve as a person it's that he isn't punished for being the person he was previously.
Thank you. This sounds better than what i wrote before.
From your perspective. In the sense of development, even though he's still not improving much or still having flaw beliefs it's still a character development.
But on redemption, I don't think it's redemption unless he is punished or gets consequences from the decision based on who he was before.
If you don't think it's not a redemption anime, at least in some part, you haven't watched it, understood it and you definitely haven't read it.
The reason only reddit thinks like you, is because it's reddit.
Good looks, yes, caring family? Did you not watch what happened? His strained relationship with his father?
Friends? You mean the ones he made along the way by trying his best to be a good person?
He wasn't just bullied. Don't downplay that.
He was beaten, stripped and tied to the gate of his school naked in full public view, his pictures taken and sent every where.
He was absolutely destroyed.
And even in his second life, he never had it "easy". In fact, at his lowest, he even tried to kill himself with his blade.
He got his virginity taken and the girl, bailed, with his already existing issues, this just broke him all over again.
The only complaint that people have with Mushoku is "oh hE liKeS lOli". Which is dumb AF. Because there are worse ones out there with clear pedophilia. Like that one where the guy finds a little girl, raises her and then fucking marries her!
Please...give it a rest. You will not "cancel" Mushoku.
Rudeus starts as a lecherous pedo who tries to use his powers to manipulate others to give him his ideal life. Now he’s a loving husband to someone who he respects as their own person, who is willing to sacrifice his happiness for others. How is that not character development?
He is the husband of two women he groomed. He still is a lecherous bastard, the target of he's bs just grew up to become adults.
Dont you dare "b-ut he's wives are into it" me, thats just the author being self inserting he's fantasies
I'm assuming your talking about Roxy for the second woman he's groomed so I have to ask, how the hell is it grooming when mentally he's an adult but in all ways Roxy is too?
I think its for spoilers for later in the story.
>!His third wife is Eris. Yeah, he gets 3 wives, so it'd definitely self indulgence wish fulfillment at this point. Rudy doesn't have to make difficult decisions of rejecting somebody, they all just flock to him and are okay with sharing him.!<
It's more egregious with >!Eris, because the author tries so hard to make it a "shes also seeing other people on the side" and has some beastwomen shes into, but it ends up coming off as "lesbian sex hot" because she never gets a MALE sex buddy, who might be a threat to Rudy's position as alpha male or whatever. Polygamy is fine as long as the wife only gets with other girls and not a man.!<
Edit: added some extra shit i forgot about
Ah, yeah I had part of that spoiler dropped on me when waiting for part 2 of season 2, Thanks google!, so yeah I can't argue that it's weird. Like you said, self insert wanna-be power fantasy harem is a thing
I have to clarify something. Eris never has lesbain hot sex with other beast women like you are saying. She is basically treating them as pets. She never has sex with them.
Huh, ok then. Must have misread something bc I thought they made it a point to let us know how she's similar to her grandpa with a furry fetish. My bad.
Sure, he *tried* to groom them, but all of them had significant time away from him while he became a not terrible person. He was only able to marry Sylphie when she was her own full person, and he hardly had any time in the past to manipulate her.
You have to keep in mind that rudeus is in a weird situation. His mental age is of a middle aged dude. But his physical age is mostly younger than the other girls. And that world is made like that, as in is resembles our world during early aristocratic times.
The issue only lies in the moments where he willingly acts upon them.
Now it's not just about privilege. He was initially a guy passionate about computers but that led him to neglect his other subjects. By the time he realised it, he reached a point where trying for the other subjects would disconnect him from his passion. So when he got an early start, he trained from an early age to get his body accustomed to the newer things right off the bat. Compared to others in the world he's not that privileged. It's just that he indirectly influenced his magic capacity by training since toddler. Even though he was weak in swordsmanship, he still opted to learn the basics and the languages.
Next is being bullied. He stood up for himself which is the reason why he got bullied so brutally. Not even a single person in his school helped him, including the teachers. It was so bad that even post reincarnation, he was mentally unable to go outside for a long time. He had a support system. His complete humiliation of the two animal girls that tried to bully him is the direct result of the resentment he held for his original bullies but then chose to not continue with the BS.
The so called privilege is some of the basic things a kid should have. Now about attractiveness, he does get it from paul. But none of the girls he's with, is there because of his attractiveness alone. Just look at why sylphie likes him. Why eris who hated him likes him. If attractiveness alone was the cause of his success, he would not be bullied by eris initially.
He went from a guy hoping to fully use the new life to his advantage to empathise with people whose issues resembled his own and help them. I'm pretty sure your only issue with this is the loli shit.
I can only speak about what I’ve seen, which is around one dozen episodes, however, I think it is a story of self improvement… Just not the kind of self improvement you want. It feels like the kind of self improvement that it is is kind of the weird like red pill get your money up and get your bitches up. Get your status up kind of shit and not being a better person. that’s how I feel about it and that isn’t very interesting to me and that’s why I stopped. Also, the main character is horrible.
I'm mostly going to touch on your "If Cap asked 'Who are you without the mask'" part. Without the overpowered MC BS that he has (And guess what he's the MC in an isekai so he's going to be OP no matter what. Kinda comes with the territory of the genre) he's still a person who deeply cares for his friends and family. He becomes Eris' tutor so he and Sylphy can go to magic school together, he had the privilege that you mentioned from being born into a minor noble family to go himself and leave his only friend behind but chose to earn the funds to bring them both along. When he and Eris are transported he vows to bring her home safely and does so. When he get's to know Rujurd he wanted to change people's perception of the Supurds to better his friend and guardian's life. He's super happy go lucky when traveling until he runs into his father and is told his mother, half sister and Lilia are still missing and does everything he can to find them. Does he do some really cringe and creepy shit like grope women? Yes\~\~,but Konosuba does some of the same shit and people love that show,\~\~ and it's my least favorite part of the series but it's not the Focus of it. In the end even without his magic and privileges Rudeus, and really Dudeus (Is that seriously the name the web novel reader's decided to call him when referring to his original life?) is someone who will do anything within his power to keep the people he cares about safe. He doesn't want to end up like how he was and realizes how pathetic his life and decisions were.
>If captain America asked "who are you without a mask" iron man can answer that easily. But how about rudeus can he answer that question. I mean who is he without overpowered ability, good looks, & a caring family, and all his new friends who don't know who he really is in the past.
Rudeus has talent, sure, but he still worked for all that he made for himself. He's not the best mage, his looks genuinely don't win him favors, and he spent most of his life without that caring family, while the friends are made (aside from Sylphy) by him being a decent person, unlike who he was in the past
What loli addiction? They disappear. How do you think he treats his sisters in S2 P2? THAT is character development, unless you didn't see him mature into a responsible and remorseful individual who LITERALLY stood up for his sister's emotions and needed to face closure from BOTH of their past lives, saving both of them in the process.
This opinion is not even valid. It can't even be constructively challenged because it's wrong.
It isn't either just redemption or privileged. It's BOTH. What do you think isekais are? Privilege. But what makes MT stand out so much? Redemption. Across all of the isekais, this show is special for blending the worst and the best of a person.
Am I wrong????? And what about past consequences? He's literally dealing with them in S2- I'll stop and just assume you've only seen S1 🤦♂️
Past consequences before isekai. Since he isekai'ed his old problems are gone and not something to deal with it again other than his ptsd.
Meaning he gets redemption without getting consequences from his action in the past. Unless he is still in his real world yet he's improving himself and he embraces the reality that everyone is still alive know his troubling past, that's what i believe proper redemption.
I realize myself i kinda jealous of him. He gets the opportunity to restart in the new world. that's something we as humans will never get because it isn't real.
Maybe i could possibly still have the privilege to try from the start again and hell i could probably lucky than him. But i still get the consequences from my bad decisions and consequences of time aging, which means i get older if i am not doing now my future old will have consequences.
>Does it portray it as negative?
Yes, because rudy is fully acknowledged by the story to be a deplorable loser.
If you disagree with that then are basically complaining that the story doesn't bash on him enough or doesn't have a narrator in the background constantly reminding us that rudy is hiki incel bum who sees people as objects.
And even then the novels do that lot too and make him even more deplorable in the early stages of the story.
>Are there consequences for the character?
I don't think consequences are a low bar, if we look at the amount of stories that have no consequences to crimes and bad actions.
Plus what consequences would happen while still preserving the path the story takes?
Is rudy being called a pervert, being beat up by eris, having his father scold him, having his father try to separate him from his friends so he learns to be more independent and let go of his obsession with sylphie, the whole situation with regretting sleeping with eris due to the emotional trauma, ruijerd calling rudy out whenever he acts with perverted intentions.
Are these not consequences or just not consequences you like because you don't think they are severe enough? But if they are not severe enough what would a good consequence be?
Plus regardless of consequences, is rudy not ever feeling interest in girls good enough? Is him rejecting a girl due to hear being too young and explaining to her why it is wrong not good enough? (The anime has yet to arrive in that part) Is rudy being a good older brother that protects his little sisters and takes care of them without doing anything abusive not good enough?
And speaking pf privilege:
I think people forget why rudy didn't try and why he was so traumatized stripped naked, tied up to the front of the school gate and then got beat up, taken photos of and had people laugh and draw things on his body...
Its crazy that people in this comment section are saying he was privileged, yes he had good and relatively wealthy family, but he was still ugly, got dealt a very shitty hand in his school life.
Sure he was not outright oppressed by society but he was privileged if had to face this kind of shit, sure in his new life its reasonably fair to say he is privileged, heck the fact that reincarnates is a privilege, so on that end you are somewhat right but still...
He didn't do anything wrong in his past life so why would he need "redemption?" I think that y'all don't understand what Mushoku Tensei is about. This isn't a story about a bad man who needs to be punished and repent for his crimes. This is a story about a kid who got bullied into becoming a hikikomori getting a second chance at life.
Everyone who is calling for Rudeus to face some sort of punishment lacks critical reading ability. At no point has the author ever considered Rudeus to be a "bad person" in his previous life.
As for the loli stuff, he is dating people who are his age. If I were reincarnated into a baby's body would I be dating grown ass women as a teenager? No, I would still be dating other teenagers.
I haven’t watched MT but would anything be lost from the character if you removed the Loli shit?
If they removed all the sketchy shit, the show would be this awesome fantasy/adventure, that delves into more slice of life stuff in season 2. But alas, that shit is still there.
that's just the begining after the end and its great
No
S2 is so weird. It feels (for the most part) like a completely different show, and honestly I think we could have gotten to the same outcome now without all the weird shit in S1.
I mean, Roxy is one of the best characters in the story. If you mean the pedophile stuff about Rudeus as a character, yeah. It's one of the base parts of why he is a major fuck up
I think people miss out on the fact that his sexual deviancy gets better as his overall mental health and understanding of people gets better. The fact current rudy feels as if he should punch himself in the past says a lot...
Does it say a lot though? Like pedophilia is an intensely hard topic to write about, but would Lolita really be a great book if instead of Humbert dying in prison he instead married Dolores and said "Man I was a little creepy back then wasn't I?"
By the way. Not even pedo related (again, crazy to say) but another thing I notice is how everyone is so fucking ridiculously chill about cheatin Not one but two arcs where a guy cheats and the happy ending to this is "and he gets TWO WIVES, so cool" I say people justifying this with "it was like this during medieval times" and it's like....yes, men cheated and took their cheating partners as concubines. And it sucked. They were usually relationships based on abuse, either physical (if you don't accept this,I gonna beat you), emotional (if you leave, then you're gonna be a used good that nobody else will marry) or economical (leave and I will ruin your family bussiness). So using the "historically accurate" argument is even worse because those relationships were extremely abusive IRL I see the argument that counts as polyamory or ethical non monogamy, but every ethical non monogamy person I've met notes how those should NEVER start as result of cheating because then it's just gaslighting
Absolutely this as well. Isekai fans use "The world is like that!" as an excuse for everything under the sun. But never seem to ask the question "Why did the author write the world like that? Why are they writing these particular scenes?"
>By the way. Not even pedo related (again, crazy to say) but another thing I notice is how everyone is so fucking ridiculously chill about cheatin The worst thing is that it totally make sense that they accepted it Silphy was groomed so hard from young age that basically would accept everything to make Rudeus happy Roxy has a self esteem so low that she accept without a problem to be the second wife (but I don't think that she would have accepted the situation if she was the first) spoiler for the events of a future season >!Eris whole life is revolved around Rudeus so much that just to be by his side she accept the situation because she arrived to late!< The author is legit a good writer sadly he isn't a good person in the same way the author of Made in abyss isn't
>Not one but two arcs where a guy cheats and the happy ending to this is "and he gets TWO WIVES, so cool" It was either that or leave one of the woman to die in the winter while already pregnant. Plus lets not forget that zenith never actually forgave paul, he got 2 wives but they literally never had sex with him again and he essentially lost all his respect.
Hmmm, you're right, the real, living person made an irreversible mistake and took the best option available to him as a fallible, limited human. It's not like the creator of his world made him do that and could just as easily have made him not do that.
And what is wrong with that? There were still consequences and paul is not held as the good guy... Like what do want to happen? For him to lose one them in tragic accident and have to go on an insufferable journey to save zenith where he gets physically and emotionally beaten? Oh wait thats exactly what happens and idk if you saw the last episode of the anime but hoo boy paul really gets some "consequences" beaten into him... Like yall are more focused on being angry and hold fictional characters to real life standards than to actually analyze the story. And it would be one thing if yall kept it to yourselves but nope, gotta make a rant about it every week, aggressively persist on the same overs used points and make a downvoting tirade on anyone who disagrees despite it literally being against the rules of this sub (and the mods as always dont do shit about it).
If you're getting cranky and exhausted from running up and down this thread defending pedo shit, you could always just... stop? You know, if you wanted. Nobody would be mad if you stopped chastising people for wanting to change a story by removing the pedo shit from it.
Why don't you stop arguing in bad faith and ignoring arguments? Is it that had to debate within the rules of the sub and be nice to others? Yall are ones getting too rilled up over a fictional story and treating it as if its a criminal record... You literally entirely ignored what happened in the story to paul and is now trying to make it personal, please bring an argument. Its crazy how Im not attacking anyone, not downvoting anyone, not committing any crime, telling any lies and yet Im still somehow in the wrong in your head.
"Its crazy how Im not attacking anyone" "And it would be one thing if yall kept it to yourselves but nope, gotta make a rant about it every week, aggressively persist on the same overs used points and make a downvoting tirade on anyone who disagrees despite it literally being against the rules of this sub"
I still don’t get why that book is from his perspective and not the girls
Good job ignoring the first paragraph...
I'm not sure how your first paragraph changes anything? "He got better though!" is still bad writing if you dedicate a considerable amount of your early story to a pedophile and never actually address it as a flaw. Especially if that story is going to give him multiple children as love interests early on, doubly so if the author decides one of the love interests is going to retain a childs body.
My guy, at this point you are just frustrated the story isnt about what you want it to be and not analyzing the character... Look at where he is right now, he is literally helping save his mom, he is making efforts to help his sister not become isolated like he was in his previous life, he is married and with an child on the way.
Well... Unironically yeah? If it had not had so much positive framing of pedophilia, or had actually delved into it as an issue then I might have a better opinion of it. I don't dislike Rudy the character, I dislike *Mushoku Tensei* the story. But I think with media it's always worth analysing what works and what doesn't work. To me there are lots of things with MT's writing surrounding pedophilia that doesn't work, Roxy having a childlish body for example feels like just an excuse to give Rudy a love interest with a childs body who wont age out of it for the duration of the story.
>If it had not had so much positive framing of pedophilia It doesn't though
I disagree. I think it does. When Rudy nearly has sex with Eris for example: * There are multiple lingering shots of her on the bed where the only thing in frame is parts of her body * The music is jovial rather than ominous * The colors are soft rather than dark or harsh * Rudy excitedly says "My first time could be with a haughty loli!" * Eris as a child has developed feelings for Rudy, and continues to develop them after this point. To me that's clear positive framing. You have an established love interest, a sex scene setup, and then a progression in the relationship. And this is not just cinematic incompetence, because MT knows how to frame a scene negatively. Take Rudy's traumatic memory of being forcefully undressed by his classmates * Music is ominous * Colors are dark * Faces are in shadow * Voice acting is sadistic There's a pretty clear difference in the techniques used. One is a positive love plot progression, one is a traumatic memory of having a persons naked body abused.
Yea I pointed that out myself In the past. We are expected to be horrified at his own experience with sexual assault but ignore him doing similar stuff in his new life. MT a show that honestly gets very uncomfortable to watch
That scene wasnt meant to be "wow, rudeus is based for it." It is "Rudeus is so disconnected from reality that he thinks he is the main character of a porn game." Furthermore, a recurring thing about the story as a whole is how *because* Rudeus' experiences in his past life and his new life are conflicting with each other. In the early life, he acted like he had main character syndrome and could get away with bullshit, but once the teleportation incident forces him to mature, those aspects of his personality start taking a backseat. And every time Old Rudeus personality showed up, it was always treated as him fucking up his relationships. That comparison you gave, while I totally get someone not liking the show because of it, it's like watching Moral Orel and thinking the show was saying the adults were good, because Orel respected them in the first season
>If it had not had so much positive framing of pedophilia The story does not do this. Rudy himself doesnt frame it negatively while he's doing it (obviously), and like, maybe one or two of the nobles, WHO ARE OBVIOUSLY TERRIBLE PEOPLE IN OTHER SCENARIOS AS WELL, frame it "positively". The only other person I can remember being "positive" about it was Eris' dad. You know, the guy who raped a bunch of beast-women. But the story frames it as worthy of punishment. Rudy gets his ass beat every time he pervs on Eris, for YEARS. And Rudy later regrets all the shit he did.
>The story does not do this. I disagree. I think finding excuses to put the child characters in somewhat lewd scenes early on is neutral to positive framing. E.g. * Rudy steals Roxies panties, framed as funny * Rudy undresses Sylphie, framed as funny * Rudy almost has sex with Eris, framed as a good but awkward step towards their future relationship I think they're portrayed as positive largely because all the anime traits of positive or humerous scenes are at play. There's no dutch angles, no ominous music, no dark colors... And we know that MT uses those classic things to frame a scene as negative because it actually does it when it's doing other negative scenes. (E.g. contrast how Rudy feels about being forcefully undressed VS how Sylphie being undressed is framed) > Rudy gets his ass beat every time he pervs on Eris I do not think Eris playing into the tsundere trope is "Punishment" him being "Beat up" is part of the trope. Like she does still fall in love with him while she's a child.
If you aren't going to analyze the story and just keep delving on how you wish it were then you aren't necessarily criticizing something, you are just trying to change it to something else. The story isn't about pedophilia, therefore it wont focus on it the way you want it to, the protagonist has loads of other conflicts to solve and over as I said about, as his mental health and social life gets better his issues with pedophilia also get better and vanish. Ya know like many irl peter pan syndrome man child who are lonely and act as if they are still high schoolers despite being 30 and unemployed... People kinds miss this factor of rudeus despite it being a core feature of his growth.
>The story isn't about pedophilia, therefore it wont focus on it the way you want it to Well my bar here for any show that deals with pedophilia is pretty low I think. * Does it portray it as negative? * Are there consequences for the character? In MT's story the answer is a solid no. In fact it has a pretty large amount of lewd scenes with childrens bodies on screen. That to me is principally a negative. To me that makes it a bad show because it dedicates a pretty considerably amount of it's early storytelling to giving the lead character ways to uncritically indulge his fantasies > as his mental health and social life gets better his issues with pedophilia also get better and vanish. Right. And I think that is an absolutely terrible story. "The pedophile went on an adventure and when he learned the power of self confidence he got better!" "Oh did he like, stop dating the one who had a childs body then?" "No they got married."
His hot wives he met when they were children and he was a mentally 35 year old man, are now adults, which makes things better now! /s Edit: grammar
>Does it portray it as negative? Yes, because rudy is fully acknowledged by the story to be a deplorable loser. If you disagree with that then are basically complaining that the story doesn't bash on him enough or doesn't have a narrator in the background constantly reminding us that rudy is hiki incel bum who sees people as objects. And even then the novels do that lot too and make him even more deplorable in the early stages of the story. >Are there consequences for the character? I don't think consequences are a low bar, if we look at the amount of stories that have no consequences to crimes and bad actions. Plus what consequences would happen while still preserving the path the story takes? Is rudy being called a pervert, being beat up by eris, having his father scold him, having his father try to separate him from his friends so he learns to be more independent and let go of his obsession with sylphie, the whole situation with regretting sleeping with eris due to the emotional trauma, ruijerd calling rudy out whenever he acts with perverted intentions. Are these not consequences or just not consequences you like because you don't think they are severe enough? But if they are not severe enough what would a good consequence be? Plus regardless of consequences, is rudy not ever feeling interest in girls good enough? Is him rejecting a girl due to hear being too young and explaining to her why it is wrong not good enough? (The anime has yet to arrive in that part) Is rudy being a good older brother that protects his little sisters and takes care of them without doing anything abusive not good enough? At most you can objectively complain is that it feels off that he had these types of perversions and they dont get addressed with formal professional therapy or jail like it would happen in real life, but the fact is that they went away as he himself grew beyond his peter man syndrome, isolation, lazyness, became less closed minded, selfish and learned to see people as more than just objects. So then again you are just frustrated the story isn't told the way you like.
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>He never regretted trying to groom the white hair girl, Look at how their romance develops and see it for yourself, he is very caring and even apologies about the bath scene. >never regrets groping Eris as a child Not a spoiler since it covers the first e eps but after eris leaves rudy has a massive arc about his regrets with his relationship with eris and gets traumatized by it, he thinks eris hates him and that he is not good enough for her, this also develops in him having erectile dysfunction and he spends years depressed about it... >the stuff he did in his past life. Thats has to do at a further point in season two which I wont spoil. >Doesn’t regret tying up and sexually assaulting the cat girls. Ruijerd literally scolds him for it and eris also knocks some sense into him... >I don’t know if he became a better person or if everyone just over look these things. To be fair part of the MT experience is judging rudy based on his actions and thoughts, season 2 more is about growth and maturity, and not he doesn't completely grow up in season 2, there is more story than that, but thats the season with the most progress within his arc and when he learns to see people as people.
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>he is taking actions to make the white hair chick dependent on him and he doesn’t regret this. It got so bad his father separated them but he doesn’t actually regret this. He suffered consequences for it, paul literally says that he sent rudy away because he and sylphie were becoming too dependant on each other... >Him developing abandonment issues does not equal regretting groping Eris. I have seen the arc and never once does he reflect on the sexual assault he did to her as a child. If he really did spend time reflecting on this, he wouldn’t have tie up the cat girls and grope them as well. He literally tried to reject eris and way for when they were both of age... You dont even need to see that arc to notice rudy grew up a bit. >Doesn’t regret tying up and sexually assaulting the cat girls. And he gets punished for it... >I am talking about the cat girls in part 2 who he ties up and gropes. The one that the white girl helps him get away with. If he really was trying to become a better person he would quit doing stuff like this. Oh, them, my guy these girls were massive bullies and they would assault and beat up people all over the academy, rudeus did that to humiliate and knock them down a peg. They were ruthless jerks especially in the novels. I seriously wonder what you think about the first 7 seconds of this video https://youtube.com/shorts/1T7VgITzXS8?si=JczdZWrQSPnXzAKG
Doesn't he still try to have sex with children?
Kinda... yes, he still tries
He doesn't tho where did this happen currently within the story?
He tries to sleep with Eris on her 10th birthday and does when she turns 15
Thats literally not currently, thats the middle of season 1, we are at season 2...
lmao you are getting downvoted for nothing
Yep like I said before in another reply, Im not attacking anyone, Im not telling any lies, Im not downvoting anyone (which btw is against the rules of this sub) and Im not commiting any crimes, heck Im not even ignoring or twisting any arguments. And yet Im the one being seen as the bad guy...
No, are still watching the anime? He is literally helping save his mom, he is making efforts to help his sister not become isolated like he was in his previous life, he is married and with an child on the way.
Yeah married to the two girls he groomed
The way this anime makes people root for Epstein because it focuses on his career and good deeds while he keeps doing heinous shit is so disgusting, and makes people rooting for Hitler on AoT look tame
Ah yes, a girl he was friends with for a year, then separated for 10ish years, was definitely groomed by him. Rudy later rejects Eris for a while. If he groomed her, he would've been jumping at the chance to be back with her.
He doesn't date any of them when they are children, he always got scolded by paul and ruijerd whenever he acted upon his pervertedness, eris would beat him up, paul and zenith literally sent rudeus away to work so he could become less dependent of sylphie especially because paul noticed Rudy was getting too close to her. He does have sex with eris at one point but because she forced him to, he tried to rejected her and he also regret it and had traumas from it. And when they were children everyone around rudy called out his pervertedness, some beat him up over it, his parents literally made him start working in another country to get his mind of them. Here is the thing, the story doesn't DIRECTLY treat it but it does DO something about it. And overall thats because nobody knows rudeus is reincarnated person, therefore there is no way for the characters in world to know and here is the thing they eventually do discover but by that point rudy is a completely different person from where he started and has zero pedophilic tendencies.
Yes. It'd make him a better person immediately, which would ruin the path to becoming one. The Loli shit could be perceived as weird depending on how old you see him as, but it's required for the story to be told
Hard disagree, none of the shows actual plot surrounds his pedophilia (Except to indulge him early on with love interests all of which coincidentally fit his perversions), and other than a throaway line much later where he goes "Wow, its weird that I am not attracted to *this* child" it doesn't really develop, certainly not as a focus. The actual plot parts of Rudy's development surrounds selfishness, and yeah that could absolutely be done without the pedophilia.
He's supposed to be the typical worst version of a weeb. If you're online at all, which clearly you are, you see the stereotype CONSTANTLY that they're pedos. It's a terrible, inaccurate stereotype, but it exists
But what does it actually do with the stereotype? * It gives him a bunch of scenes indulging in it, giving him child love interests * As he grows up he marries said love interests, one of which maintains a childs body * Much later in the story he eventually says "Wow I'm not even attracted to this child. I definitely would have been earlier though" To me that... Just isn't really a compelling delve into online weeb pedophilia. Like what does it say about it? Kind of nothing... In fact it spends more time indulging it than it does commenting on it.
Part of me wonders if Rudy would have still said that if he didn't have his wives and kids. Like if he was still alone during that point in the story, would he have still rejected the offer? Because it honestly feels like the message doesn't land when he already has what he wants.
Okay, does he improve from it at any point about that part of him?
Without spoiling details, a little girl wants him later and he not only rejects her but it's a whole deal that he tries to make her understand that it would be wrong.
If we are talking about >!Eris!< then yeah, the fact that he actually rejected her at all BLEW my mind. Fuck Turning points, THAT was the biggest plot twist of the series.
There is another instance too. I've only heard it spoiled from people who finished the novels though
He does, yes
But if he absolutely never improves in that aspect and it's never brought up (specifically the pedo part, not just his pervyness) then what difference does it make to the story?
It improves, just not in the anime yet
Stop lying. He doesn’t improve, the narrative rewards him by giving him an eternally child wife. He has a child with his first wife when she’s *fifteen*.
So let me get this straight... When he's an adult in a child's body, he's a pedo for being with children because he is an adult But when SHE is an adult in a child's body, he is a pedo because she is a child???
What are you even talking about? Per the wiki, he had a child with a child in a child’s body. And since Rudy as a baby is perving over his very own mother, we know he’s mentally an adult, as a baby wouldn’t have those urges. So he never improves, he’s literally given child wives instead.
No he's given an adult wife. If rudy in a child's body is an adult, his wife in a child's body is an adult. You're literally contracting yourself
Rudy is still a bad person without the loli shit. In fact the show tackles everything about his bad character traits besides him being into Lolis ( which is treated more as a joke) so you’re really losing nothing.
You're losing a lot. He can't be an example of bad weebs, which is what he's supposed to be, if he's not into lolis
Natsuki Subaru from re zero is a example of bad weebs and he isn’t into lolis
I think the problem with discourse surrounding Mushoku Tensei is fans are convinced self improvement in one avenue is actually self improvement in every avenue, or even a form of redemption. Rudy does go from loser to hero... But Rudy overcoming his own anxieties is not him or the show actually addressing his flaws. Its self improvement in the most basic wish fulfilment form, "What if I was cooler than I am now" I think much of it comes down to how desensitized you are to sexual scenes in anime as well, to a lot of people I think they register Rudy's pedophilia more as a "Yeah anime is weird sometimes" type thing rather than as an actual problem (If they'll even admit that Rudy is an adult at all ofc)
Honey! Prepare the trenches! A new mushoku tensei take just dropped!
don't watch it, but that just literary just sound like Isekai harem 101. But this is not popular opinion ?
it was one of the OG's, there's a lot of character building , world building and the MC is anything but generic
in its defense, it was one of the original isekais that started the tropes
nope what started the tropes was familar of zero Edit: fun factz the Familiar of Zero and its fan fiction helped pioneer and popularize the isekai genre in web novels and light novels, along with the website Shōsetsuka ni Narō."
nope not true re:zero is older which already made fun of isekai tropes
Yeah I dunno how this rumor even started, considering re zero was released 7 months prior to mushoku tensei and got an anime adaptation way earlier than it
The person who lacked power, attractiveness, a loving family, purpose, talent, etc. grew into a shitty person. He got picked on, humiliated, isolated, abandoned, etc. Even though he grew into the worst version of himself, he still died to save someone else. There's something still in him. And when he's given a second chance, a new life, he takes advantage of the chance he's given and strives to become a better version of himself. He works hard, tries to be good to people, learns from his mistakes, etc. Rudeus developed into the type of person who can save the type of person he started as. That's a huge development from his start. In the school arc, he basically runs the place. He has power over others, and he's free to do whatever he wants. He could fuck every animal-girl he sees and bully people he doesn't like. But what does he do? He makes friends, some of them total weirdos, and he genuinely cares for them and they care for him. He's respected and cherished. If he didn't develop into a much better version of himself, then that would never happen. Sure, he was given privileges that he never had in his first life. But is that a knock against the story, or an intentional aspect of the story? Why do you think he got bullied in the first place? If he had all those privileges from the start, he never would've became the person he was in his first life. And if he wasn't the type of person who wanted to improve, then he would've used those privileges he gained in bad ways. But that's not what we see, is it? From the very first episode, we see Rudeus working his ass off. He learns how to read, studies and practices constantly, and so on. If he never applied himself before he even knew he had overpowered magic, then he would've become a middling swordsman like Paul wanted. Don't mistake the things Rudeus achieved for himself as privileges. I am reminded of a quote from Haikyuu: "Talent is something you make bloom. Instinct is something you polish." Privileges are only part of the equation. Work to your strengths. Work is the key word, the point of the quote above. Rudeus worked and earned his character development, earned his place in the world, earned the love and praise he receives as the person he is now.
> The person who lacked power, attractiveness, a loving family, purpose, talent, etc. grew into a shitty person. He got picked on, humiliated, isolated, abandoned, etc. I think you misunderstood this part of the story (or perhaps just phrased it weirdly). Rudy was from a wealthy and loving family. He was also pretty smart. He already had privilege in his previous life. However, he made all the wrong choice to throw it all away to the point where he lost everything and then died. In his second life he also has privileges, even more than in his first life, but this time he isn't wasting them. That's why the most powerful moments in mushoku are those where we get a parallel of his current life to his previous one, and we see how this time he chooses the "right" hard way. He had a friend that he had a fight with? In the past he didn't do anything to mend that relationship. This time he does put in the effort to make up with paul, and understands how that friend felt through his own actions. His parents loved him and did everything they could for him, how does he repay them? In the past he didn't talk with them, he didn't even go to their funeral. In the present, he is devastat by Paul's death and zenith's condition and finally understands what it means to have family. He is in depression and wants to remain holed up in his room? In the past he did exactly that. In the present, he finds in him the strength to "wake up and take a step". These are just a few of the examples meant to show that Rudy's conditon in his past life was mainly because of his choices, not because of bad luck or lack of privilege
Ah, fair. I view the people from his past life negatively, since they failed to save him and eventually stopped reaching out. It's his fault as well, of course. Thing is, we see him able to save his sister from the same fate. It's not an entirely fair comparison, but at the end of the day they did fail to get through to him. Then there's scenes like when Roxy got Rudeus to leave the house for the first time, or when Paul and Rudeus were learning from each other as father and son. We don't really see moments like those from his first life, or at least they aren't emphasized in the storytelling in a way that I remember.
> Thing is, we see him able to save his sister from the same fate. It's not an entirely fair comparison, but at the end of the day they did fail to get through to him. I think it's bias because this isn't even up to interpetation. Rudy himself said that norn has done what he didn't mange to do in more than a decade, and then says that if Nanahoshi ever manages to go back, he will give her a message for his brother (to thank him). Rudy went to norn once, and that was enough to break her out of her isolation. Rudy stayed in that state for decades, and we have scenes of his brother trying to reach out, his friend trying to cheer him up, or his parents trying to console him. It is his own fault for not accepting their help, not theirs for not trying hard enough (especially since his parents continued to support him financially, bring him meals and so on for more than a decade). Fault is a pretty big word though ans i wouldn't say that it's somebody's fault for not quickly getting over mental trauma, but the point still stands. The point is, rudy says it himself that it wasn't him that saved her, norn came back from that state all on her own. It is therefore misguided to blame his family for not managing to bring him back in the real world
I mean I think Norn is just a way stronger person than past Rudeus. We saw in the very same episode that his brother constantly try to reach out to him the same way Rudeus tries to reach out to Norn. The only difference is Norn chose to take her brother's hand while Rudeus didn't. Past Rudeus simply didn't try, and he regrets it everyday.
>I mean I think Norn is just a way stronger person than past Rudeus. Well yeah, nord wasn't stripped naked, tied up to the front of the school gate and then got beat up, taken photos of and had people laugh and draw things on his body... Like I think people forget why rudy didn't try and why he was so traumatized. Its crazy that people in this comment section are saying he was privileged, yes he had good and relatively wealthy family, but he was still ugly, got dealt a very shitty hand in his school life. Sure he was not outright oppressed by society but he was privileged if had to face this kind of shit, sure in his new life its reasonably fair to say he is privileged, heck the fact that reincarnates is a privilege...
> but he was still ugly, got dealt a very shitty hand in his school life. Both of these are a result of his own actions. He was pretty smart but since middle school he stopped paying attention to school to play on his computer and other similar things, so he had bad grades and only made it to one of the worst high schools in his region (hence why his bullying was so extreme, because the school was full of delinquents). That's why when he is very young in his new life he analyzes what he failed before and begins taking his sword trianing and magic training seriously, because that's what spiraled his previous life down
My guy how is being a lazy student a fair point to say that being stripped naked and tied up to the front of the school gate serves as a consequence of his own actions!?
I think you entirely missed the point. Rudy in his previous life was privileged by being wealthy and pretty intelligent, but instead of making use of them, he wasted his middle school years and ended up in the worst high school from his region (where the worst delinquents from the region were). Rudy was born even more privileged in his second life, but if he chose to not train diligently in magic and with a sword, he would have very well ended up being teleported in a random place where he is used as a sex slave (as the other kid from the village that bullied silphy ended up after the fittoa mass teleportation). What separated his two life wasn't privilege, it was his different mentality.
>Rudy in his previous life was privileged by being wealthy and pretty intelligent, but instead of making use of them, he wasted his middle school years and ended up in the worst high school from his region (where the worst delinquents from the region were). This does not make the criminal lvls of bullying he suffered his fault... >What separated his two life wasn't privilege, it was his different mentality. But thats something entirely different. I literally explained what happened to rudy, you said with your own words that he brought it upon himself by being a lazy student which led him to go to a bad school but like, the fact that he got bullied to this lvl has nothing to do with his own actions, its not his fault the school was this permissive to delinquents, its not his fault delinquents exist, its not his fault his parents in no moment noticed his falling performance and did nothing significant about it, its not his fault the people at his school were this lvl of awful. He could have gone to that bad school, and still not suffered that bullying, in the same way that he could be just as lazy in his second life and be teleported to a good place like sylphie was and become a royal escort. None of the stuff that happened there boils down to rudeus own actions, its literally because he was terribly unlucky. Like I get your point, his change in mentality is what allowed him to persist and get help to be a somewhat better person, but still he did not get bullied because of his own actions, he got bullied because the world is crappy and he was too naive as a child to realize that going to a bad school would increase the odds of him facing criminal lvls of bullying.
Did you forget to read the part about the other kid from the village? Bad things happen to everybody, what matters is how you respond to them. Why do you think season 1 episode 23 had a lot of explicit parallels between that event and rudy becoming a shut it? Because it's practically the same thing, but rudy found the strength in himself to "wake up and take a step" as the episode is named. You are talking about luck as if adversity doesn't exist in everybody's life. No matter who you are or where you are from, you have faced adversity in your life. Some people lose everything and find the means to make a life again, some people have a break up and never recover. Rudy wasn't unphased by his original parents because he was hanged naked in front of the school, he was unphased because he was genuinely an imature "bad" person. When paul died he didn't fall into depression because he was privileged in this world, he fell into depression because he bas matured and became emotionally aware.
Rudeus also worked hard to earn those 2 little girls that he groomed since day one 🔥🔥🔥 [](https://emojipedia.org/fire)
The only one you can really count is Eris.
Saying "only one" is crazy
Buddy , sylphy fell in love with him when she was a child so he groomed her too. So 2 are the right answer.
The last time they saw each, they were like 4, tho? Then, didn't see others for like 10-12 years? How is that grooming? It's not. Now, Eris can count. You don't even know the definition of grooming
He spent two years of his life with sylphie. That's enough for her to develop feelings for her ,right??🤔
Rudeus was 7 years old. When he was sent to eris and he met sylphy at the age of 5 when roxy left him . He spent two years of his with her . 7 to 13 , he spent that time with eris before she went to train .
This is how you know people didn't read the story or just didn't pay attention and are just talking out of their ass. The way you are talking is as if Rudy was trying to groom her the moment they met when he didn't even know Sylphy was a girl. He knew she was a girl for a year and then got sent to the Boreas house. After that, 9 years passed, and he met Sylphy again. They didn't see each other for 9 years, and yet you are still claiming he somehow groomed her? How can he groom people telepathically?
And you are the one not paying attention to the story it seems . Rudeus becomes a water saint at the age of 5 (Lucy said this in redundancy). Roxy promotes him . After that he meets sylphie and spends two years with her . Then, he got shipped to eris, and we know what happens .
He spent two years with her with one year thinking sylphie was a boy. Was he grooming her then? When he didn't even know she was girl?
You are pulling your accusations out of your ass. When did I say sylphie was actively groomed . I said that sylphie started loving him even when they were in village . And yes buddy , I have read the story after volume 14 many times . You can legit ask me anything post tp4 and I will answer everything you want . Just because I point out disgusting things about this story doesn't mean I have not read the story.
Sylphie was not groomed. You don't even know what grooming is. You obviously read with your ass cheeks and not your eyes if these is what your takes are. Sylphi had a crush on him, so what? All kids have one. He left her for almost 10 years. Pray tell, how did he groom her? There is no way he could have groomed sylphie
Having affair with a kid whom you spent two years definitely raises some questions . And sylphie loved him . She legit was having wet dreams about him even before meeting him y ou fucking dork . She when she saw him first in the university legit got her knee tremble. It's written in ln 26 when they were describing his personality. Roxy and and eris never had such reaction to his face
And you are the one not paying attention to the story it seems . Rudeus becomes a water saint at the age of 5 (Lucy said this in redundancy). Roxy promotes him . After that he meets sylphie and spends two years with her . Then, he got shipped to eris, and we know what happens .
I don't remember but did he make any romantic commitments to her?
He didn't. But sylphy did , didn't she ?? .That's the reason she was having wet dreams about him even before meeting him university. And rudeus as soon as he found out who sylphy was, got sexually involved with her. He legit says says she might have lingering feeling towards him from their shared time in the village(Light novel 9) Which proves my point right that she got in love with him in the village .
Didn't watch season 2, just asking
Oh, sorry about spoilers.
Nah I don't mind, I was the one who initiated the discussion it's on me
thats one too many and also thats not true lmao he legit said "i'll make you into my ideal woman" in his head to sylphy
Especially when you compare EoS Rudeus and the BoS Rudeus, they’re worlds apart with ending Rudeus constantly risking his life for his new family, admonishing his past, and overall becoming a good person. I can understand not liking early Rudeus and disliking how some of his actions are laughed off (most likely due to Japans different sense of humor). I’d definitely hate an IRL early Rudeus but it really does hit different when you see how ending Rudeus is so different and how he behaves. I never really saw Mushoku Tensei as a story of redemption because it’s not like he can ask forgiveness or help his original family (he was a huge PoS to them) considering he can’t at all go back to Earth. He also actively helps his new friends and family, constantly risking his life for them. But saying he doesn’t grow as a character is actively false and it really is night and day comparing BoS and EoS Rudeus.
Mushoku no Tensei being a redemption story is the biggest lie anyone ever told. It starts to with a pedo jacking his meat to an infant, and ends with a adult man who successfully groomed 3 childrens. No amount of redemption arcs would change that. I don't care if you support loli shit, but please don't paint this anime as something it is not.
Ayo , buddy not 3 but 2 ( Still disgusting). But the third one forced herself to be a homewrecker for him.
can you at least name who he groomed and when? what is the point of spreading those lies to earn some imaginery points?
If a girl looks 10 then i don't care that she is a 500 old vampire loli dragon. If you want to make excuses for Rudeus because he is no longer a 30 old dude, then maybe don't start the story with him jacking off to literal infant. I have no idea what Mushoku author had in his mind when he was writing this story. Was Rudeus being a pedo supposed to be relatable, or what?
can't you see what you wrote? you don't care that Roxy is 500 years old because she looks 10 years old, but that doesn't apply to Rudeus, and besides, the action with the infant is from a web novel which is a rejected version of the story
The problem is that Eris is not a 500 year old dragon. That girl is fucking 10 when Rudeus was groping her. She later on became his wife that he groomed. Mushoku no Tensei fans are as delusional, as the show they are watching.
Yea he is also 10
Bro i will just assume that you didn't reply. Have a nice day.
Isn’t this just isekai 101 take sad sack and give them a consequence free world and op talents attractiveness to be a shitty wish fulfillment fanatsy
Finally somebody said it!
I mean, saying MT isnt about character development is a huge stretch. If you want to say the development was facilitated by becoming an op isekai protagonist, sure, totally agree. I also think its fair to not like the main character. Not liking the series at all is totally valid. But lets not pretend theres NO character development. Also, that is a gross misuse of that quote. If you took away Tony's bank acount, iron man suits, intelligence, and all the connections hes made in his life, hed have nothing too. If you JUST took away Rudeus's magic powers and family connections, he'd still be happily married with a child on the way, a respected researcher at the most prestigious university in the world, and taking on the responsability of raising his sisters while his parents are away. Hes actually doing fine dude... at least where im at in the series. could change. Thats how development works.
Happily married pedophile with a child on the way!
Well that’s a bad comparison. Tony is a large reasons as to why stark industries is so successful and well known in the first place. Tony is not man made in the traditional sense ( he started from money obviously) but he quadruple his wealth with his own ideas, work ethic, and intelligence
My point is that OP is only taking away Iron Man's suit while leaving him a supergenius billionaire with all the connections in the world. He then took Rudy's friends, family, powers, and made him ugly to boot. Like, how is that a comparison. You either JUST take away their powers, in which current (anime) Rudy actually passes the test quite well, or go overboard like they did in op and even tony looks like shit.
It could and maybe it is a bad comparison. But if i meet rudeus i will ask him about this, i want his answers, i wonder what he thought about it. It is also probably not a fair comparison. But it's a question that could be asked either way. The same way when tom holland spiderman said he's nothing without his suit.
No that's a good comparison OP is taking away rudeus' competence while not doing the same with iron man. >Tony is not man made in the traditional sense ( he started from money obviously) but he quadruple his wealth with his own ideas, work ethic, and intelligence That's the same with rudeus, he started with high potential but became so good because of his hardwork and willingness to explore in a world with limited resources.
Mushoku Tensei fans always work themselves stupid trying to justify why they like a show with gross shit in it when it's not necessary. That's why you see lies like the story being about redemption from them.
Disagree I've red most of the web novel like 2 years ago, but growing up I started to dislike the series for the obvious things like pedophilia and grooming Mushoku Tensei is a story about having a second chance in life, he obviously has the privilege to have memories of his past life so he could grind earlier than the others while also not facing consequences for his past action, but the story doesn't end here, he had similiar situation as his past life but he overcome them The difference between Rudeus and his past self (that I will call Goku in this comment because I really like Goku, and Rudeus true name wasn't ever revealed) is the way they react to life. both Rudeus and Goku had traumas, Rudeus He faced them and overcame them, thanks to the help that their loved one offered to him, Goku escaped from his traumas and remained closed in his room and refused the help from people that deeply cared about him Rudeus and Goku were both very gifted from young age, but the former continued to improve himself, the latter believed to be better than everyone around him so he stopped trying till he was behind Spoiler season 2 >!despite Goku parent loving him he didn't care enough about them and decided to ditch his parents funeral to masturbate on pedo shit, Rudeus despite the many errors that his father did to him he emphasized with him, he knew how he feeled and gave him a second chance and created a bond even stronger, and after his death he was deeply affected by it!< spoiler things that I guess will happen on the next episode of season 2 (I am keeping up with the series only through random Facebook post) >!and he gotten over his trauma by cheating on his wife, with a girl who will forever have the body of a middle school age girl🙏🙏!< Goku didn't care about his physical appearance, Rudeus work out regularly, has a good diet, and try several hair cut through the series
Calling rudeus's past self goku is wild LMAO
F goku, krillin has always been better
It's a hentai that tries to pretend that it's a redemption story. It's just a well written hentai power fantasy. When you see it like this, it makes a lot more sense. The author just put his ultimate fantasies, mainly sexual, and make readers to agree with him.
Only thing he has as a privilege aside from reincarnated is a good face and near infinte flexible mana capacity. The good face... It's genes bro there's nothing we can do about it 🚬┐(´ー｀) The power he currently has only came from his experience and willingness to go forward. I especially like the fact that his near infinte mana he has is only achieved by him training to expand his mana pool. All the spells he used is nothing flashy nor powerful. They are just effective. Heck, we've only seen him use a saint ranked spell two times. He didn't get any op powers that will bend reality nor god killing abilities. His only power up was a future sight eye, and it was an advice from hitogami. >! For Rudeus to trust him more !< Sure you may be correct about Rudeus having a better set from birth than the others, that being having a developed mind and a big mana pool. But what do all those things do when he faced Orsted. ... If you take Rudeus' privileges... What would he be? Take away his mana capacity... It still won't change the fact he wants to learn magic. And he would also discover how to use chantress spells. Take away the developed mind and the story won't be here anymore. Take away the people that care for him. Roxy, she never met Rudeus. Rudeus then won't leave the house. He will never go explore the new world he was born in. He will never live his second life fully. He will only keep taking things for granted. He will never move past intermediate stage in magic. He will never survive the mana disaster. Without Ruijerd to save him and Eris in demon continent, the MT story will close in 3 volumes. Nobody will take interest in a character who never progress. ... What makes MT story good is that, It's not about gaining privileges. It's about using them to their fullest. Not taking things for granted. 🧚♂️✨ metaphor ✨ In a plane full of people digging down for treasure with their hands. Rudeus only got a gardening spoon shovel. Only using that he dug like others. Others found their treasures first before Rudeus and they were only using their hands. Rudeus may have better digging tool than others, but he may find his treasure later than others. ~~I am a terrible metaphor maker~~ In the end... MT isn't just about MC getting things from a sliver plate. He had to face risks. The sliver plate can turn into a feces bowl any moment. He have to learn to treasure it, to protect it. But goddamn Rudeus is a slow learner. He just now realized how important Paul was to him. And he only knows it after he lost Paul.
Doesn't matter how anyone tries to explain it. Some people will see it as growth and development as a person where others will forever hate MT because of the mc. You'd be hard pressed to find someone willing to change their mind about this anime.
I think it is a story of redemption and development (I read the LN so it might be different from the anime/manga) the issue here isn't that he doesn't evolve and improve as a person it's that he isn't punished for being the person he was previously.
>the issue here isn't that he doesn't evolve and improve as a person it's that he isn't punished for being the person he was previously. Thank you. This sounds better than what i wrote before. From your perspective. In the sense of development, even though he's still not improving much or still having flaw beliefs it's still a character development. But on redemption, I don't think it's redemption unless he is punished or gets consequences from the decision based on who he was before.
If you don't think it's not a redemption anime, at least in some part, you haven't watched it, understood it and you definitely haven't read it. The reason only reddit thinks like you, is because it's reddit. Good looks, yes, caring family? Did you not watch what happened? His strained relationship with his father? Friends? You mean the ones he made along the way by trying his best to be a good person? He wasn't just bullied. Don't downplay that. He was beaten, stripped and tied to the gate of his school naked in full public view, his pictures taken and sent every where. He was absolutely destroyed. And even in his second life, he never had it "easy". In fact, at his lowest, he even tried to kill himself with his blade. He got his virginity taken and the girl, bailed, with his already existing issues, this just broke him all over again. The only complaint that people have with Mushoku is "oh hE liKeS lOli". Which is dumb AF. Because there are worse ones out there with clear pedophilia. Like that one where the guy finds a little girl, raises her and then fucking marries her! Please...give it a rest. You will not "cancel" Mushoku.
Rudeus starts as a lecherous pedo who tries to use his powers to manipulate others to give him his ideal life. Now he’s a loving husband to someone who he respects as their own person, who is willing to sacrifice his happiness for others. How is that not character development?
He is the husband of two women he groomed. He still is a lecherous bastard, the target of he's bs just grew up to become adults. Dont you dare "b-ut he's wives are into it" me, thats just the author being self inserting he's fantasies
Thank you for your opinion on grooming, u/MakimaMyBeloved . I agree with you though.
Makima is a villain tho. Saying "I like villains" isn't polemical
I'm assuming your talking about Roxy for the second woman he's groomed so I have to ask, how the hell is it grooming when mentally he's an adult but in all ways Roxy is too?
I think its for spoilers for later in the story. >!His third wife is Eris. Yeah, he gets 3 wives, so it'd definitely self indulgence wish fulfillment at this point. Rudy doesn't have to make difficult decisions of rejecting somebody, they all just flock to him and are okay with sharing him.!< It's more egregious with >!Eris, because the author tries so hard to make it a "shes also seeing other people on the side" and has some beastwomen shes into, but it ends up coming off as "lesbian sex hot" because she never gets a MALE sex buddy, who might be a threat to Rudy's position as alpha male or whatever. Polygamy is fine as long as the wife only gets with other girls and not a man.!< Edit: added some extra shit i forgot about
Ah, yeah I had part of that spoiler dropped on me when waiting for part 2 of season 2, Thanks google!, so yeah I can't argue that it's weird. Like you said, self insert wanna-be power fantasy harem is a thing
I have to clarify something. Eris never has lesbain hot sex with other beast women like you are saying. She is basically treating them as pets. She never has sex with them.
Huh, ok then. Must have misread something bc I thought they made it a point to let us know how she's similar to her grandpa with a furry fetish. My bad.
Sure, he *tried* to groom them, but all of them had significant time away from him while he became a not terrible person. He was only able to marry Sylphie when she was her own full person, and he hardly had any time in the past to manipulate her.
You can only come to this take if you dropped the novel after 3 chapters. Genuinely no reading comprehension
You have to keep in mind that rudeus is in a weird situation. His mental age is of a middle aged dude. But his physical age is mostly younger than the other girls. And that world is made like that, as in is resembles our world during early aristocratic times. The issue only lies in the moments where he willingly acts upon them. Now it's not just about privilege. He was initially a guy passionate about computers but that led him to neglect his other subjects. By the time he realised it, he reached a point where trying for the other subjects would disconnect him from his passion. So when he got an early start, he trained from an early age to get his body accustomed to the newer things right off the bat. Compared to others in the world he's not that privileged. It's just that he indirectly influenced his magic capacity by training since toddler. Even though he was weak in swordsmanship, he still opted to learn the basics and the languages. Next is being bullied. He stood up for himself which is the reason why he got bullied so brutally. Not even a single person in his school helped him, including the teachers. It was so bad that even post reincarnation, he was mentally unable to go outside for a long time. He had a support system. His complete humiliation of the two animal girls that tried to bully him is the direct result of the resentment he held for his original bullies but then chose to not continue with the BS. The so called privilege is some of the basic things a kid should have. Now about attractiveness, he does get it from paul. But none of the girls he's with, is there because of his attractiveness alone. Just look at why sylphie likes him. Why eris who hated him likes him. If attractiveness alone was the cause of his success, he would not be bullied by eris initially. He went from a guy hoping to fully use the new life to his advantage to empathise with people whose issues resembled his own and help them. I'm pretty sure your only issue with this is the loli shit.
I can only speak about what I’ve seen, which is around one dozen episodes, however, I think it is a story of self improvement… Just not the kind of self improvement you want. It feels like the kind of self improvement that it is is kind of the weird like red pill get your money up and get your bitches up. Get your status up kind of shit and not being a better person. that’s how I feel about it and that isn’t very interesting to me and that’s why I stopped. Also, the main character is horrible.
It's about living, that's it. How is a light novel that hard to understand for the average redditor.
I'm mostly going to touch on your "If Cap asked 'Who are you without the mask'" part. Without the overpowered MC BS that he has (And guess what he's the MC in an isekai so he's going to be OP no matter what. Kinda comes with the territory of the genre) he's still a person who deeply cares for his friends and family. He becomes Eris' tutor so he and Sylphy can go to magic school together, he had the privilege that you mentioned from being born into a minor noble family to go himself and leave his only friend behind but chose to earn the funds to bring them both along. When he and Eris are transported he vows to bring her home safely and does so. When he get's to know Rujurd he wanted to change people's perception of the Supurds to better his friend and guardian's life. He's super happy go lucky when traveling until he runs into his father and is told his mother, half sister and Lilia are still missing and does everything he can to find them. Does he do some really cringe and creepy shit like grope women? Yes\~\~,but Konosuba does some of the same shit and people love that show,\~\~ and it's my least favorite part of the series but it's not the Focus of it. In the end even without his magic and privileges Rudeus, and really Dudeus (Is that seriously the name the web novel reader's decided to call him when referring to his original life?) is someone who will do anything within his power to keep the people he cares about safe. He doesn't want to end up like how he was and realizes how pathetic his life and decisions were.
>If captain America asked "who are you without a mask" iron man can answer that easily. But how about rudeus can he answer that question. I mean who is he without overpowered ability, good looks, & a caring family, and all his new friends who don't know who he really is in the past. Rudeus has talent, sure, but he still worked for all that he made for himself. He's not the best mage, his looks genuinely don't win him favors, and he spent most of his life without that caring family, while the friends are made (aside from Sylphy) by him being a decent person, unlike who he was in the past
What loli addiction? They disappear. How do you think he treats his sisters in S2 P2? THAT is character development, unless you didn't see him mature into a responsible and remorseful individual who LITERALLY stood up for his sister's emotions and needed to face closure from BOTH of their past lives, saving both of them in the process. This opinion is not even valid. It can't even be constructively challenged because it's wrong. It isn't either just redemption or privileged. It's BOTH. What do you think isekais are? Privilege. But what makes MT stand out so much? Redemption. Across all of the isekais, this show is special for blending the worst and the best of a person. Am I wrong????? And what about past consequences? He's literally dealing with them in S2- I'll stop and just assume you've only seen S1 🤦♂️
Past consequences before isekai. Since he isekai'ed his old problems are gone and not something to deal with it again other than his ptsd. Meaning he gets redemption without getting consequences from his action in the past. Unless he is still in his real world yet he's improving himself and he embraces the reality that everyone is still alive know his troubling past, that's what i believe proper redemption. I realize myself i kinda jealous of him. He gets the opportunity to restart in the new world. that's something we as humans will never get because it isn't real. Maybe i could possibly still have the privilege to try from the start again and hell i could probably lucky than him. But i still get the consequences from my bad decisions and consequences of time aging, which means i get older if i am not doing now my future old will have consequences.
>Does it portray it as negative? Yes, because rudy is fully acknowledged by the story to be a deplorable loser. If you disagree with that then are basically complaining that the story doesn't bash on him enough or doesn't have a narrator in the background constantly reminding us that rudy is hiki incel bum who sees people as objects. And even then the novels do that lot too and make him even more deplorable in the early stages of the story. >Are there consequences for the character? I don't think consequences are a low bar, if we look at the amount of stories that have no consequences to crimes and bad actions. Plus what consequences would happen while still preserving the path the story takes? Is rudy being called a pervert, being beat up by eris, having his father scold him, having his father try to separate him from his friends so he learns to be more independent and let go of his obsession with sylphie, the whole situation with regretting sleeping with eris due to the emotional trauma, ruijerd calling rudy out whenever he acts with perverted intentions. Are these not consequences or just not consequences you like because you don't think they are severe enough? But if they are not severe enough what would a good consequence be? Plus regardless of consequences, is rudy not ever feeling interest in girls good enough? Is him rejecting a girl due to hear being too young and explaining to her why it is wrong not good enough? (The anime has yet to arrive in that part) Is rudy being a good older brother that protects his little sisters and takes care of them without doing anything abusive not good enough? And speaking pf privilege: I think people forget why rudy didn't try and why he was so traumatized stripped naked, tied up to the front of the school gate and then got beat up, taken photos of and had people laugh and draw things on his body... Its crazy that people in this comment section are saying he was privileged, yes he had good and relatively wealthy family, but he was still ugly, got dealt a very shitty hand in his school life. Sure he was not outright oppressed by society but he was privileged if had to face this kind of shit, sure in his new life its reasonably fair to say he is privileged, heck the fact that reincarnates is a privilege, so on that end you are somewhat right but still...
He didn't do anything wrong in his past life so why would he need "redemption?" I think that y'all don't understand what Mushoku Tensei is about. This isn't a story about a bad man who needs to be punished and repent for his crimes. This is a story about a kid who got bullied into becoming a hikikomori getting a second chance at life. Everyone who is calling for Rudeus to face some sort of punishment lacks critical reading ability. At no point has the author ever considered Rudeus to be a "bad person" in his previous life. As for the loli stuff, he is dating people who are his age. If I were reincarnated into a baby's body would I be dating grown ass women as a teenager? No, I would still be dating other teenagers.