This problem is solved when you notice that faith and works are the same thing. They are both part of a state of being. One is the internal part of that state of being and the other is the external part of that state of being.
If your internals are in a state of faith, of course your actions are going to line up with that. If your actions do not align with an internal state of faith, then of course your internal state cannot be one which produces good works. This is the same as "judge a tree by the fruit is bares."
The reason the distinction is often made in scripture is because you can have a problem in either place. If you do good works but you aren't faithful, then you are effectively trying to buy your way into heaven and are thus fooling yourself. If you have strong faith but you never put in the works, then you are trying to get into heaven without changing yourself and are thus fooling yourself.
Two distinct dangers on opposite sides of the spectrum of being in a state of morality.
Yes, but you just directly contradicted scripture.
It says “everyone” as in all. It doesn’t say “everyone who had faith which became evident through works”
Romans 10:9-15
9 If you declare with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.
10 For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you profess your faith and are saved.
11 As Scripture says, “Anyone who believes in him will never be put to shame.”
12 For there is no difference between Jew and Gentile—the same Lord is Lord of all and richly blesses all who call on him,
13 for, “Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.”
14 How, then, can they call on the one they have not believed in? And how can they believe in the one of whom they have not heard? And how can they hear without someone preaching to them?
15 And how can anyone preach unless they are sent? As it is written: “How beautiful are the feet of those who bring good news!”
No scripture was contradicted.
Think of it this way. If you believe that there is a tiger in your bedroom, are you going to just walk right in? Of course not. Your hesitation proves that you really do believe there is a tiger in there. In this case, hesitation is a work.
But if someone else tells you there is a tiger in your room, and yet they just open the door and walk right in without looking, then you can tell that their works do not match what they claimed to believe.
But if someone else tells you there is no tiger, and yet still hesitates to open the door, then it means they are working to gain something they don't believe in and thus are secretly working for something else, as yet known to you and perhaps unknown to them.
It personally doesn’t seem contradictory to me. I think the James passage is pretty clear.
I don’t see how the thief on the cross breaks this concept at all, the ‘works’ are not tokens for you to spend at the arcade it’s simply a matter that authentic faith will yield authentic works.
Presumably if we took him down from the cross, put some bandaids on him and sent him on his merry way he would live on to help others and preach the gospel.
It’s not circular, it’s linear. First comes faith, then comes works. The works are not saving you, it is simply evidence for yourself and for others.
Jesus doesn’t need your works, he already knows your heart.
> James 2
19 You believe that there is one God. You do well. Even the demons believe—and tremble! 20 But do you want to know, O foolish man, that faith without works is dead?
>Acts 15:8
And God, who knows the heart, bore witness to them, by giving them the Holy Spirit just as he did to us
Oh I understand. I know you didn’t even read my post because you’re using scripture I’ve already quoted.
So if you can’t even take the time to actually read the post, please don’t try and engage me in conversation.
I did, I even upvoted your post because I thought this is something people genuinely get confused about sometimes.
After viewing your post history I now can see now you’re just hung up on your ego.
I feel sorry for you, and hope you can humble yourself. Also I took my upvote away. Goodbye for real this time.
> 2 Corinthians 4:3-4
And even if our gospel is veiled, it is veiled to those who are perishing. In their case the god of this world has blinded the minds of the unbelievers, to keep them from seeing the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God.
A living faith saves. Faith alone saves, works are done out of faith and devotion. If one does not believe they do not fast. Likewise, if one hears to love your neighbor but continues to show hatred do they have faith in the words? Works only count if they are done in faith. If you do your works to the glory of God then they count and complete your faith. Demons believe and know that Christ is Lord and yet do not act upon his teachings thus they have a dead faith. But those who have faith will do that which is faithful to God. The thief will beg for forgiveness and confess his sins, the rich man will give to the poor, and the sinner will deny himself and pick up his cross following in the bloody footprints of Jesus on Mount Calvary. The Bible doesn't contradict itself, instead, Paul emphasizes that one is saved by Christ's merits alone. While James emphasizes that one once saved will live according to his faith ultimately doing the works of faith. As the philosopher Søren Kierkegaard writes: Love to God may bring the Knight of Faith to love his neighbor. Works take all kinds of forms and a simple confession, or a short prayer may be what someone can do. God knows the heart and he will lead those with faith to do what they must. God be with you.
But Roman’s says it’s by one’s mouth that they are saved.
Romans 10:9-15
9 If you declare with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.
10 For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you profess your faith and are saved.
I don't see your point. Paul says if you believe in your heart you will be saved and if you confess you will also be saved that doesn't contradict or anything. By faith you are saved and that faith leads you to do works of faith which is submitting to God.
Mmm Romans doesn’t say anything about all that. It makes it pretty clear: confess and be saved.
Someone can confess without living a radically transformed life, and Roman makes it clear, they are saved.
But other biblical accounts would make such people hell bound, thus the contradiction.
The classic question here is this : Is salvation by faith alone, or is salvation by faith plus works? This is a hefty question, of course; it brought us the Reformation, and tends to be the dividing line between Christians and cultists.
This is Ephesians 2:8-9: *“It is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God—not by works, so that no one can boast.”* Important here is the word *grace*, which refers to God’s blessings on the undeserving. The very idea of grace negates all attempts to *earn* salvation. Paul makes that argument when teaching on God’s choosing of the remnant of Israel: “Since it is through God’s kindness, then it is not by their good works. For in that case, God’s grace would not be what it really is—free and undeserved. (Romans 11:6)
See also Acts 16:31, Romans 3:28, 4:4, and 5:1, Galatians 5:1, 2:16, and 3:24, Ephesians 1:13, and Philippians 3:9
James 2:24 seems to say that justification is by faith and works: “You see that a person is considered righteous by what they do and not by faith alone.” But you have to look at the whole of James’ argument in his epistle. James is refuting the idea that a person can have saving faith without producing any good works (2:17-18) Genuine faith in Christ, James says, will produce a changed life and result in good works (2:20-26) James is not saying that justification is by faith plus works, but that a person who is truly justified by faith will have good works in his or her life. The works are an outward show of genuine faith in Christ (2:24, 17. 20, 26)—and it’s this outward show that “justifies” the believer in the sight of other people.
Paul says those who have true faith in Jesus Christ will be “eager to do what is good” (Titus 2:14) If you look back at Ephesians 2, right after after teaching that we are saved through faith, not through works (2:8-9) Paul says that we were created “to do good works” (2:10) Salvation comes by God’s grace through faith, and that faith is demonstrated practically through good works. The works follow the faith and are a proof of it.
If we’re going to say that we are saved by works, well, we have to qualify *whose* works. We're not saved by our own works (no matter how great we think they are). We are saved solely by the work of Christ on our behalf. His death and His resurrection are the works that save us. We receive our Savior by faith (John 1:12)
The easy answer is James 1:1 shows you who it’s addressed to. It’s not addressed to Christians but to Jews in the tribulation. There’s a instruction manual for Jews in the tribulation. You have to rightly divide the word of God on who the book is speaking to, for what time period.
For example: we do not stone people for saying the Lord’s name in vain or not observe the sabbath. You don’t have to build an ark, etc. The bible is written for us, but not all of it is to us
Why many christians complicate james 2 faith and works -
https://youtu.be/hlHA9_ZvIIU?si=NfuzluJ4VTXv0TZl
This problem is solved when you notice that faith and works are the same thing. They are both part of a state of being. One is the internal part of that state of being and the other is the external part of that state of being. If your internals are in a state of faith, of course your actions are going to line up with that. If your actions do not align with an internal state of faith, then of course your internal state cannot be one which produces good works. This is the same as "judge a tree by the fruit is bares." The reason the distinction is often made in scripture is because you can have a problem in either place. If you do good works but you aren't faithful, then you are effectively trying to buy your way into heaven and are thus fooling yourself. If you have strong faith but you never put in the works, then you are trying to get into heaven without changing yourself and are thus fooling yourself. Two distinct dangers on opposite sides of the spectrum of being in a state of morality.
Yes, but you just directly contradicted scripture. It says “everyone” as in all. It doesn’t say “everyone who had faith which became evident through works” Romans 10:9-15 9 If you declare with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. 10 For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you profess your faith and are saved. 11 As Scripture says, “Anyone who believes in him will never be put to shame.” 12 For there is no difference between Jew and Gentile—the same Lord is Lord of all and richly blesses all who call on him, 13 for, “Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.” 14 How, then, can they call on the one they have not believed in? And how can they believe in the one of whom they have not heard? And how can they hear without someone preaching to them? 15 And how can anyone preach unless they are sent? As it is written: “How beautiful are the feet of those who bring good news!”
No scripture was contradicted. Think of it this way. If you believe that there is a tiger in your bedroom, are you going to just walk right in? Of course not. Your hesitation proves that you really do believe there is a tiger in there. In this case, hesitation is a work. But if someone else tells you there is a tiger in your room, and yet they just open the door and walk right in without looking, then you can tell that their works do not match what they claimed to believe. But if someone else tells you there is no tiger, and yet still hesitates to open the door, then it means they are working to gain something they don't believe in and thus are secretly working for something else, as yet known to you and perhaps unknown to them.
It personally doesn’t seem contradictory to me. I think the James passage is pretty clear. I don’t see how the thief on the cross breaks this concept at all, the ‘works’ are not tokens for you to spend at the arcade it’s simply a matter that authentic faith will yield authentic works. Presumably if we took him down from the cross, put some bandaids on him and sent him on his merry way he would live on to help others and preach the gospel. It’s not circular, it’s linear. First comes faith, then comes works. The works are not saving you, it is simply evidence for yourself and for others. Jesus doesn’t need your works, he already knows your heart. > James 2 19 You believe that there is one God. You do well. Even the demons believe—and tremble! 20 But do you want to know, O foolish man, that faith without works is dead? >Acts 15:8 And God, who knows the heart, bore witness to them, by giving them the Holy Spirit just as he did to us
Oh I understand. I know you didn’t even read my post because you’re using scripture I’ve already quoted. So if you can’t even take the time to actually read the post, please don’t try and engage me in conversation.
I mean your whole point doesn’t make sense, I was trying to be nice. Have a good day.
You didn’t even read it dude. ✌️
I did, I even upvoted your post because I thought this is something people genuinely get confused about sometimes. After viewing your post history I now can see now you’re just hung up on your ego. I feel sorry for you, and hope you can humble yourself. Also I took my upvote away. Goodbye for real this time. > 2 Corinthians 4:3-4 And even if our gospel is veiled, it is veiled to those who are perishing. In their case the god of this world has blinded the minds of the unbelievers, to keep them from seeing the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God.
Check out my comment, dispensationalism solves your issue
A living faith saves. Faith alone saves, works are done out of faith and devotion. If one does not believe they do not fast. Likewise, if one hears to love your neighbor but continues to show hatred do they have faith in the words? Works only count if they are done in faith. If you do your works to the glory of God then they count and complete your faith. Demons believe and know that Christ is Lord and yet do not act upon his teachings thus they have a dead faith. But those who have faith will do that which is faithful to God. The thief will beg for forgiveness and confess his sins, the rich man will give to the poor, and the sinner will deny himself and pick up his cross following in the bloody footprints of Jesus on Mount Calvary. The Bible doesn't contradict itself, instead, Paul emphasizes that one is saved by Christ's merits alone. While James emphasizes that one once saved will live according to his faith ultimately doing the works of faith. As the philosopher Søren Kierkegaard writes: Love to God may bring the Knight of Faith to love his neighbor. Works take all kinds of forms and a simple confession, or a short prayer may be what someone can do. God knows the heart and he will lead those with faith to do what they must. God be with you.
But Roman’s says it’s by one’s mouth that they are saved. Romans 10:9-15 9 If you declare with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. 10 For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you profess your faith and are saved.
I don't see your point. Paul says if you believe in your heart you will be saved and if you confess you will also be saved that doesn't contradict or anything. By faith you are saved and that faith leads you to do works of faith which is submitting to God.
Mmm Romans doesn’t say anything about all that. It makes it pretty clear: confess and be saved. Someone can confess without living a radically transformed life, and Roman makes it clear, they are saved. But other biblical accounts would make such people hell bound, thus the contradiction.
The classic question here is this : Is salvation by faith alone, or is salvation by faith plus works? This is a hefty question, of course; it brought us the Reformation, and tends to be the dividing line between Christians and cultists. This is Ephesians 2:8-9: *“It is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God—not by works, so that no one can boast.”* Important here is the word *grace*, which refers to God’s blessings on the undeserving. The very idea of grace negates all attempts to *earn* salvation. Paul makes that argument when teaching on God’s choosing of the remnant of Israel: “Since it is through God’s kindness, then it is not by their good works. For in that case, God’s grace would not be what it really is—free and undeserved. (Romans 11:6) See also Acts 16:31, Romans 3:28, 4:4, and 5:1, Galatians 5:1, 2:16, and 3:24, Ephesians 1:13, and Philippians 3:9 James 2:24 seems to say that justification is by faith and works: “You see that a person is considered righteous by what they do and not by faith alone.” But you have to look at the whole of James’ argument in his epistle. James is refuting the idea that a person can have saving faith without producing any good works (2:17-18) Genuine faith in Christ, James says, will produce a changed life and result in good works (2:20-26) James is not saying that justification is by faith plus works, but that a person who is truly justified by faith will have good works in his or her life. The works are an outward show of genuine faith in Christ (2:24, 17. 20, 26)—and it’s this outward show that “justifies” the believer in the sight of other people. Paul says those who have true faith in Jesus Christ will be “eager to do what is good” (Titus 2:14) If you look back at Ephesians 2, right after after teaching that we are saved through faith, not through works (2:8-9) Paul says that we were created “to do good works” (2:10) Salvation comes by God’s grace through faith, and that faith is demonstrated practically through good works. The works follow the faith and are a proof of it. If we’re going to say that we are saved by works, well, we have to qualify *whose* works. We're not saved by our own works (no matter how great we think they are). We are saved solely by the work of Christ on our behalf. His death and His resurrection are the works that save us. We receive our Savior by faith (John 1:12)
The easy answer is James 1:1 shows you who it’s addressed to. It’s not addressed to Christians but to Jews in the tribulation. There’s a instruction manual for Jews in the tribulation. You have to rightly divide the word of God on who the book is speaking to, for what time period. For example: we do not stone people for saying the Lord’s name in vain or not observe the sabbath. You don’t have to build an ark, etc. The bible is written for us, but not all of it is to us Why many christians complicate james 2 faith and works - https://youtu.be/hlHA9_ZvIIU?si=NfuzluJ4VTXv0TZl