Being both physically and emotionally present is just about the greatest gift you can give a child. So if that's what it will look like, that's gonna be one lucky, stable, well adjusted kid. Now if you're gonna sit around and play video games and get high all the time and just ignore him or hire a nanny while you do nothing at all, that's another story. But if you guys keep busy and happy doing fun, active, healthy things together, that's like the ideal childhood. Enjoy.
I’d recommend doing something you actually enjoy with some of your time that has some aspect of a job to it to show and teach your kids. Whether it is volunteering, joining the board of some non profit etc. Kids don’t really understand income etc. at a young age but a “job” you could bring them to and see you actually enjoying and contributing to could be a great alternative
This is my plan. They see me actively engaged and building/contributing to something that will set a good example. They don’t need to know I don’t get paid for it
I think studies back this up. Children do better with more parental attention. it's why only children do best, followed by the oldest siblings. More parental attention.
This strikes me as a radical oversimplification of parenting by someone who has no children.
My 2 cents as someone who has struggled with this subject. It is important to show your kids that work is meaningful and connected to financial health. I do believe that financial literacy, chores etc. are the most important component to this but I do think there is something about showing some connection between how you spend your hours and sustaining a lifestyle. I know this is somewhat adverse to the mantra of this sub.
Don’t get me wrong, being on the road 150 days a year and missing all sporting events has a far worse impact but having grown up with a few kids who had “financially independent” non-working parents they are, shall we say, not the most productive members of society. All 3 of them are just aimless. Clearly qualitative but also true.
My plan is to make sure I have a visible occupation until all 3 of my kids are in 8th grade or so. After that I think they are old enough to get it. Visible doesn’t mean lucrative, it means what it says… in my case coaching.
My friend grew up with his parents retired. I can honestly say he is one of the most well rounded person on the planet with skills and hobbies in so many different areas. I think you will be fine
I can understand that but don't think you need to worry about that so long as you're active in your community and demonstrate responsible, accountable behaviors (self-care, routine, discipline, health, physical activity). Those are the traits that make up work ethic. Work ethic is just the end result of a healthy, disciplined, structured, active lifestyle. That can look like a 9-5 or just lots of community engagement, structure, predictability, and commitment to things you care about (family, hobbies, or a job).
No fucking way, at least not kindergarten. My kids are going through that now and I'm stress with job and clearly in impact them in some way.
I'd be more curious about the impact in high school when they look for more serious aspiration, but I suppose that by that point I'll be long done too... but in kindergarten they just want you there.
Sometimes I just wish I could hit a 10 year pause and pick it back up where I was career wise, nest egg wise, and everything, and pay off those 10 years when you 'actually' retire.
More great time with the kids, and more sports with a capable body.
I had a similar concern and it was one reason I went back to work.
I was "pretired" from the time my daughter was 6. I care that she learned that working is a positive thing and provides for the family, and I wanted her to know what I did. I went back to a regular career job when she was 13, and this is what she remembers now, which the way I much prefer it. At that point in her life, she was still pretty family-oriented, but I expected my years of high influence to be limited.
I didn't want my kids to ever think that money was something you just "have." I want them to have a good model for how one can build wealth and how consistent hard work and intelligent financial management and frugality play into that equation.
I think that's the way to do it. I have some older friends and I'm the same age as their kids (parents are mid 50s, I and their kids are late 20s/early 30s). Both of their kids are pretty lazy tbh. The parents were really hard working/scraping by in their 20s but became extremely successful in the mid30s and are now quite wealthy. One parent became a sahp when the kids were \~8ish? and 'retired' when they graduated high school. A lot of it is lifestyle creep from the POV of the kids, who were too young to remember the hard days, but also I think are modeling what they see in the retired parent. I mostly only interact with the parents but I get the impression that the kids have the 'work to live' mindset without actually working that much. They very much bankrolled by the parents and I'm REALLY curious to see how the grandkids will end up as I'm doubtful the generational wealth will last that long. The parents, who remember the hard working days, just want their kids to be happy & fulfilled and I don't think realize the downsides.
I'm also pretty judgey since I'm the same age as the kids but can't imagine being so clueless about what the value of a dollar is lol.
Are you able to teach how you achieved chubbyfire? Unless you won the lottery or inherited money, I’m assuming you had a strong work ethic for a period of time. If so, teach him that.
Trust me, being present, having fun, and teaching your kids is the best gift for them.
Being retired doesn't mean being dormant. You can still do things that need to be done, take responsibility for the household, and even work on some fun hobby projects to demonstrate a work ethic. There's nothing saying that if it's not in service of the national GDP then it's not "work".
I’m coast fired from home and my wife homeschools our kids. When my kids take a break I take breaks with them, picnics, tennis etc. they’ve never once asked why I wasn’t working much, and they’re the coolest kids I’ve met.
I think the question is, how are your kids going to react when they graduate college and potentially enter a career that isn’t as lucrative or as flexible as yours and realize they have 45+ years of grinding ahead of them before they can afford to retire. I worry a lot about whether I’m setting my kids up to feel like failures if they can’t land a job like I have and make as much as I do (which statistically is almost certainly going to be the case).
Beyond that, I do think it’s important that my kids see that there are times when I don’t get to do the fun things but instead fulfill my obligations. In all likelihood my kids won’t have the luxury of taking breaks to play tennis in the middle of the day and I wonder if it’s good to normalize that for them when they are young.
Most of us in this sub might have the same feeling
My teenager has the luxury of thinking what kind of career to choose to have impact on topics that matter to him, as opposed to me being in a high paying job that contributes little to the world
I have worked my way up and out of poverty but he only remembers how we’ve been living since I have become an exec
I’m trying to do a career transition towards sustainability and he already told me that it would be more important to him that I do something that I like and have an impact, rather than him getting luxury things (verbatim)
There’s no doubt in my mind that 1) my high paying career will end in some shape and form 2) he will also have to work his way up in his chosen field like all of us did
I struggle with this as well. My kids were too young/not born when I was grinding hard; 3hr daily commute, long hours, 50% travel. Now I work from home, have flexible hours and spend a lot of time with them. Being present in their life is great and I wouldn’t change it for the world, but I do worry that they may think I achieved the level of financial success I have working from home in a cushy job.
I share this concern. I did start ups and while I didn’t have a huge payout, I did pretty well and earned much of what will make the rest of my life comfortable in my 20s and early 30s, before kids. They aren’t going to see any of that grind, determination, stress. Not sure how it’ll be for them, but there isn’t much I can really do about it (no way I’d be willing or able to work those type of hours again).
Show discipline by volunteering (get the kids involved over the years), keeping fit, going to school events, etc. There are a lot of ways to model work ethic
You can teach that around the house and in life in general. Getting up and being where you’re supposed to be when you say you will. Running errands and keeping to responsibilities. Just be a productive person in general. The productivity can benefit the household and the family and even yourself. Think of it as a productivity ethic rather than a work ethic. It’s even more compelling that the inertia comes from within and not from a boss telling you to do it. I still that in him by modeling that, and he’ll become an even more productive adult than one whose parent was away from home slaving at a job.
You'll be teaching him what to work *for*
The tragedy I see in this world is people doing jobs they hate to buy things they don't need to impress people they don't like.
If a "good work ethic" means slaving away to make others rich whilst "putting up" with a stressful job then I hope my kids don't have a good work ethic.
I'd rather teach them to have meaningful goals and work hard towards them.
Kids don’t “watch their parents work”. They just hear “I need to go to work now” then they disappear and come back later.
They have no concept of what work actually is until they are in their teens.
Even then, most people have no idea what an office job entails except for what they see on TV or in movies.
Unless you are in the trades or do something visible like retail or service work, most jobs are invisible to your kids.
Exactly this. You don’t instill a work ethic in kids by disappearing for 40 hours/week - you do it by being hands on with them and supportive with their challenges. So much easier to do the latter when you’re not “working”.
I think OP is suffering from the “other people view the world in the same way as I do” fallacy.
I’m not calling them out - everyone does that to some extent.
People think their kids will respect them if they are rich, or if they work hard, or if they have an important title.
Maybe some kids do, but most don’t. That’s just you thinking that what *you think is important* is the same thing your kids think is important.
Parents can help with this by talking about/showing their kids tangible realities of work life in the way kids can understand.
As a kid, I learned more about responsibilities/work life and the importance of education from my dad saying things in the moment like:
"I have to make a call because people I work with are depending on me to help accomplish (whatever the work goal he was currently involved in)."
"I sure am glad I learned what I did in my accounting classes in college because now I can help business owners make good decisions about XYZ."
"Typing is a skill I learned in high school that I use every day. I couldn't do my job as well without it."
I saw him ordering flowers for secretary appreciation day (it was the early 90s), going to weddings and funerals of his associates, sending Christmas cards to people he worked with all over the country, etc.
Make it real for kids by explaining the "why"; don't just disappear for 40 hours a week.
Yea kids have no concept of work. Other than firefighter, teacher and a few other public sector jobs they literally don’t know what you do for 8 hours a day until they themselves start doing it.
I've been FIREd since my daughter was around 6. She's 10 now.
I guess it depends a bit on what you do with your life. If you watch Netflix all the time, it sets one example. If you're working on your dozens of hobbies, you're setting another example.
I tell my kids that life is exciting and there are so many things to do! I'm always writing or building or whatever.
So when my daughter comes home from school and wants to play cards, and I decide that I'd like to work on my projects a little - I get the standard response. "Why do you always have to work?!"
Which is too funny. Because I walk her to school, and walk her home. She's with me 80% of the time she's not at school, and we're constantly doing activities.
I'm 100% convinced that a present, interesting parent is wildly better than an absent, hardworking parent.
And I think as long as I'm keeping myself busy with productive things, she understands that this is how daddy "works".
I will gladly be your assistant while your kid is present. I will host a zoom call where you join, and you can berate me for 1 hour everyday about some action items that I will need to do.
Rinse and repeat.
50 per hour.
Resume can be provided upon request.
I’m not FIREing yet but already have this same concern. My kids already seen and hear how much effort I put into achieving “flexibility” at work so that I can spend more time with them and pursue my own fitness hobbies. I do sometimes worry a bit that I’m not modeling sufficiently dedication and hard work to my profession.
On the other hand, most of my life experience suggests that what messes up kids the most is absent / uninvolved parents… so, I don’t worry THAT much about it.
I think you might be worried over something that is likely not an issue.
Make sure you have a diverse group of friends and role models your kid can see for whatever that matters to you, eg, you might want to show him that not all families look like yours not just in the staying at home department but maybe in religion, or language, or profession, or being divorced, or having two moms/dads, etc.
Maybe consider if you have family friends of all socioeconomic groups? So your kiddos have exposure to not just a “bubble”
And you might need to explain why your kid’s friends or schoolmates’ parents both work, versus why you and your spouse don’t work (come up with a good ELI5 for that occasion)
It’s a sign of a good parent that you’re thinking about this proactively, so kudos 🙌
I do think this is complicated. My husband and I are in chubby territory and maybe heading toward fat-ish as dual high earners. We have a 6 month old son who I would love to stay home with. I’ve decided to delay my retirement/stay at home mom era because we want 1 more child and I’m afraid that if we have a girl specifically, she won’t remember that her mom was an engineer who built our wealth as the higher earner some years, but a wife with a successful husband.
Also the future is uncertain so keeping some work/skills that may earn income is probably worth it if you are motivated to do so. Totally dial back if that works for you, but do something that feels worth it.
What I remember about my parents from when I was little was affection, arguments, and what they chose to reinforce about each other to us (mostly good, some bad).
As a parent of a girls, I think your heart is in the right place to want to show this example.
However you are talking about delaying retirement while the kids would be home, only to retire when they will be spending like 7 hours a day at school.
Not saying stay at home parent is for everyone, but if this idea of showing your kids a hard working engineer woman is what’s stopping you, I think you’re missing the big picture. There will be plenty of opportunities to show them that.
I would guess there is more to it than that though.
There might not be time later. Technical roles are very unforgiving of time out of the workforce, especially for moms, and girls with working moms have better financial and professional attainment on average. Also weighing opportunity costs, I can quit at any time or reach a point where I can request dialing back work instead of further promotions but I may never be able to come back at my current level if I stay home for a few years so I’m seeing how it works for me and my family.
Both of my parents FATfired around the time I was born, when they were several years younger than you are now. I am now in my late 20s and they still don’t work. Looking back, it was obviously great having them around and my entire childhood was quality time. However… with everything on a plate, and having never really been unsupervised or fending for myself, I quickly ran into issues around authority and independence in my early teens which could have easily tripped me up (more than it did). The lack of economic necessity, purpose and a social network coupled with an excess of wealth left my parents fairly isolated, and this made me isolated too. I had no proper understanding of money or its value, of the importance of saving, or any real idea of the difficulties life could hold until university. Quite a shock to the system.
Despite winding up with the finest education money can buy, I still have issues with discipline and long-term diligence, and it was a complete fluke (and through much reflection) that I have ended up fairly normally adjusted. There is a lot I will never have in common with the vast majority of people I will ever meet.
If you want to avoid this from happening to your children, (and you want to retire) you will have to work extremely hard to be a consistently good role model over a very long time frame. You must avoid becoming complacent about your lifestyle, and you must not forget how and why you ended up here. My parents were from poor backgrounds, were extremely fortunate and didn’t know anyone else in a similar position - which is perhaps why they weren’t as aware of these hazards as they could have been.
Am I happy with my upbringing? Of course. But do I wish my parents had stayed at work, or at least done something? Absolutely, without a doubt. I have seen that life up close, and I have no desire to follow in their footsteps. I work even though I don’t have to, and I’ll probably never stop as so long as I am still doing something I enjoy. PM if you have any Qs.
You can spend this time feeding him healthy meals, spending quality time with him, being active outside, reading with him, helping with his education and homework, being active at his school, and being attentive to what makes him happy.
My suggestion would be to Rest, Play, Grow by Debra Macnamara. If he is beyond preschool, check into her other stuff.
https://macnamara.ca/books/
Her stuff is based on a long history of studies from the guy she studied under. Lots of good science. Good data about raising a child without messing them up by pushing too hard or not doing enough.
Become super dad and come back to let us know how your progressing.
That’s a good problem to have
It also depends if you’re a trust fund baby or FIREd due to hard work and smart investments.
I’d explain in an age appropriate way how you got there
And be active in the community, volunteer. I haven’t Fired yet but I’m a start up mentor in sustainability on a voluntary basis and I talk about it a lot with my teenager
Thought about this same thing and decided I'll work until my youngest is 12 or 13 at minimum. I don't have to work but I want them to see and grow up in a fully functional household.
I’ve had a similar concern. I think I might try to devote my time when they are in school to community groups, nonprofits, or other side projects. That way they can see you dedicating your effort to something you care about, and maybe even be somewhat involved with those activities more than they could be involved with your job before retiring.
You can teach work ethic in all kinds of ways!
Sure, if you retire and sit home on the couch 24/7, gain 75lbs and let your health go to crap then absolutely is a bad example.
My husbands dad was working and mom was SAHM and I remember her saying she did not want parents both staying home (despite them could have affording it) because they wanted to set a work example. We are both wanting to retire when kids are in elementary school, so when I asked my husband what he remembered about his dads work ethic he said things like : he coached my swim team and worked to make schedules and book everything for tournaments, he taught me how to fix my car, he took care of fixing everything around the house.
he didn't see what his dad did when he WENT to work, just what he did around the kids, at home.
My mom was a single parent and a SAHM (had some early investments pan out well that afforded her that luxury-not because of child support LOL).
No. If anything, this will give you an amazing opportunity to teach him how to work hard. I feel like as long as you’re an active parent, he won’t think anything of it.
Yeah I think so. But will you really just live a life of leisure? Most people who retire early end up doing something more meaningful in their life. Community service, maybe passion project, or a lifestyle business maybe?
A child learns work ethic from a lot more than just seeing a parent disappear and goto work. And it’s entirely feasible to teach them all these lessons without grinding a job yourself.
Those lessons can be imparted very effectively by a parent who spends time with them, engaged at home.
Now if your idea of “live a life of leisure” is to smoke weed all day and not participate in your kids life, I’d change my opinion about the parenting value.
Retired since 48 when my kids were pre-teen and teen. Yes, it's a valid concern. But #1, encourage them to pursue their dreams and calling like you did/are. And #2, don't give the impression that they're necessarily.going to inherit a big pot of money so they dont have to work.
My dad WFH and semi retired since I was 10 years old (I’m now 30). I ended up working hard and became a physician specialist in radiology so I could WFH and live well too.
It will be fine
Different perspective here. I dated a guy for several years who was an only child and his parents had him later in life (early/mid 40s) and they both retired when he was very young. So he grew up thinking that the norm was having 2 stay-at-home parents. He hated working so much that it became unbearable to me and I ended the relationship. He spent hours every day complaining about work. Not actual complaints about his work environment, just vague complaints about all the stuff he could be doing between 9am-5pm every day. It was like he truly didn’t understand that adults have jobs and go to work.
And fwiw he was a doctor making about $500k/year. Very cushy. Not working in an Amazon warehouse or something physically strenuous like that.
I understand the concern but living your life to satisfy someone else (even your own children) is a recipe for failure. The best thing you can do for your kid is to be authentic to your values, to be the best version of yourself and to be present for them.
In practical terms all your kindergartener cares about is how much you're willing to play with them. What you're describing is maybe a concern in high school. Do you really want to sacrifice ten years of your life for some hypothetical lesson your kid may or may not learn?
Also what are you planning to do in retirement? Though I do not expect to have a full time job I will be quite busy. My kid will remember a mother who helped foster kids navigate the system, or taught stranger's children to read, or prioritized lifelong learning by taking extension classes or prioritized health by going hiking in the mornings. And yet was fully present when he needed her. Volunteering in your kid's school an hour a week would be a great way to show both your love and your values, while giving back to your local community.
The main risk will be over-parenting I think. I see this a LOT now (we have a business that deals with kids). We’ve seen kids that have had so much done for them that they literally shut down and run back home after their first semester of college.
your kids will probably not have the desperation, hunger, and fear-driven drive to success at any cost. but perhaps he will discover meaning, build resilience in a way that is more healthy?
Have you read the blog by Mr. Money Mustache? I think that he and the kid's mom had retired early before his birth. The kid is now an adult, and I don't know how MMM's lifestyle affected the kid, but he does talk at length about how he was able to spend a lot more time being a dad than most fathers with full time jobs
À child doesn’t care about your job. He will just remember how nice and present you were for him.
The culture of work is such a joke that it reaches a point which convinced us it is more important than creating bonds with family
I may be in the minority here, but I do think showing some work ethic (having some sort of career) does influence how kids grow up and perceive their own future.
I am 41. I had a serious girlfriend 20 years ago in college and soon after whose father had a traditional job working for the county. He worked 9-5, no more, no less, and took his 6 weeks vacation a year. He took off the entire month of August (which to me says your job isn’t necessary if you can be gone that long and nobody misses you). He never made more than $100k a year in exchange for his pension.
When I got my first job working in finance in a major city, I worked 7am-6pm. I didn’t take a day off for a year because I wasn’t entitled to one. My girlfriend blew a fuse and didn’t understand why I was working so hard. Although by finance standards, my hours weren’t awful at all. She definitely wanted a husband who punched a clock. I wanted to eventually get to ChubbyFIRE.
I’m in a position where I could ChubbyFIRE after 20 years of working but I’m still working mainly to keep padding my retirement and have my kids see that Dad goes to work. While I don’t work crazy hours and I don’t push myself hard anymore, we can argue the positives and negatives of that, I do want my kids to know that their life and my life was funded by something.
My in laws (not parents of my college girlfriend…I married someone else luckily), were the opposite of me. They came from means and inherited money and just waited around for people to die to keep living a trust fund life. When they blew through their funds and people stopped dying, they didn’t know how to earn a living because nobody ever showed them how. And now they barely get by. My father in law admits his shortcomings and says nobody ever showed him how to be industrious.
So while you don’t have to bust your ass, I’d try to show your kids there’s some benefit to work and that’s how you got to where you are today.
I left a great engineering job to do this. There is nothing better in the world than watching your child grow up daily and helping nurture them along correctly.
You will have a great stable young adult of you do everything correctly.
I coached a girl who her parents had her late in life like 42 and retired early so she never remembered them working. She was the absolute coolest kid. Super smart, well spoken, kids in high school didn’t really get her but she didn’t care she was so confident. She spent every summer with her parents living in another country so she spoke 4 languages. Just the coolest kid known to man. She went to a prestigious college and just became a reporter for a big paper. I think they’ll be just fine if she is any indicator for what having constant support at home is like!
I think it is important to see your parents working. Unless you have enough to provide the same lifestyle to them I would advise that you get a hobby job.
The kids will NOT remember if you was working or not when they are young. You cannot screwup them this way. Kids can process only information matching their ability. Until they are 10-14 they only will recall if their dad was playing ball with them, running in a park, being around their mom everyday. The issue of passing work values between generations can be an issue later. I do not know that. But with your resources you can seek a professional advise later on when they are teens.
I love the fact my kids don't know what I do for a living. There's one thing that they do know; I am always there, whatever recital, every play, every field day, every event. I'm there. Theres times I have business to attend to and I'll call it work but that's just the easiest way to make it relatable.
Being there for them is so important to me. There's time to instill work ethic, accountability and responsibility and having a job working for someone else isn't going to do that.
Get involved doing something. Really anything positive. Show them that you’re living a life of purpose. It could be anything from a hobby, to some passion that you have. Showing them that you have passion and purpose in your life is much more important than showing them that you have a 9-5 job.
What matters is putting effort into what you do, treating people with respect, having boundries, listening, being around to guide them, etc. Be a role model and an actual good human being, and the child will be fine. Whether you're working or not is less important; there are a lot of bad parents that work and bad ones that do not work.
It's a good scenario to think through. Overall, you spending more time with him will be supremely beneficial. Explaining to him what FIRE is later in his life will help him understand and hopefully will inspire him to do the same.
I can't see a downside here. Kids are used to seeing parent rush to work early, come home late and be stressed about work. It's a vicious cycle that is not healthy for any kid, yet it's the norm in society
We will probably plan to retire several years later than you, but this question is still on our minds, because our kids will still be pretty young. It's not an easy question, but our current plan is to do our best to cultivate a strong sense of curiosity about the world and an ethic about finishing what you set out to do in the hopes that a good work ethic emerges independently out of personal desire. Secondly, when the kids get old enough we hope to be transparent with them about how working hard and saving was a big component of being able to buy ourselves the freedom that they might see now, and might not see with their peers' parents, and that if they wanted that too, that is something they can pursue too.
So, my dad basically did this around the same age (40-ish). I was older (mid-teens) so I remember my dad working massive hours when I was a kid as he was building up his business, then all of a sudden having all this free time and flexibility when I was older (15 or so) as he no longer needed be involved in the day-to-day.
It definitely skewed my expectations of what a day could/should look like, but gave me a solid understanding of the connection between hard work and eventual freedom. I’m in my late 30s now, deep in the hustle stage, and I have much clearer financial and personal goals than my friends whose parents retired at a typical age.
You can teach a child how to have a work ethic without being in paid work, but they might not make the same connection if they don’t see their parent use their time for good in some way. Community service, involvement in their school, mentoring, using your talents wisely.
It will require conversations as they grow up. You can tell them what you did to be able to live the lifestyle you have and help them chart a similar path if they want to.
I have a home office. Spend time in there managing your personal accounts / investments, etc.
Not sure what your FIRE plan is but if it involves rental properties you will have a business to run and your kid will see that
Not if you explain to him that it isn't about daddy isn't a deadbeat, daddy busted his butt to get to where he is, saved religiously, gave up immediate gratification for long term security and explain to him in detail what you did and how you did it. If you're lucky he'll grow up and be able to do the same.
You’re going to teach your child about financial independence and be present. You will explain how you worked hard and were the exception due to that hard work, not the rule.
Screw up? I doubt it, but I share the exact same concerns. I want my kids growing up knowing I worked. Kids are the ultimate copycats as you’ve likely already seen. You don’t need to teach kids so much as be a present, healthy positive example for them. I don’t want my kids expectations to be unreasonably set by what I have done. So yea, I think being a positive example of what it means to be a working parent is important for the long term but I suspect the importance of this will be minimized in the comments.
A couple things I think will help at least a little bit:
1. Occasionally talk about the "old days" when you worked so much that you don't have to works as much now. Talk
2. Work hard at other things you do. For example, if you have a hobby, show your kind how hard you are working to master it. If you work out, show your kid how committed you are to fitness. There are other ways to demonstrate hard work.
Over COVID my job moved to full time remote. Then I had a baby (my third) in 2021 and my employer had upped the maternity leave so I enjoyed 4 months home with my kids. Sometime in 2022 my oldest was SHOCKED to learn that I was in fact still employed and had a job since only my husband would physically leave the house for work.
All this to say, what your kids experience is what you share with them or what impacts them. My work aligned to daycare and school, so my kids weren’t sacrificing any time with me because of work.
You do you. I think the best parenting is to show your kids how to find joy in living a productive and fulfilling life. I now talk more about the things that excited/challenged me at work (in kid friendly terms and detail).
Good luck finding your balance!
Being present with your child physically and emotionally will be the greatest gift you could ever give them. It's also an opportunity to set an example and teach your child how they can live a similar life, which builds generational wealth and financial independence. If you choose this approach, your kid will be the luckiest one in the area.
I would argue, yes. If your kid doesn’t see you do some time of work, it could mess them up. If you want to teach him the type of work ethic it takes to retire at 39, he’s gonna need to see it.
Think about how people who are far, far wealthier go about their lives. Tiger Woods hasn't needed a paycheck in the last 20 years, yet his kids see the work ethic he puts into succeeding. Shaq doesn't need a job, yet he has at least 2 jobs, papa johns and the TV show. Look at the business world. Elon Musk, Tim Cook, Warren Buffett, these are people who haven't needed a paycheck in a long time, yet they continue to work.
Now, none of these people are rocking a 9-to-5 but to be honest many of them probably work far more hours. But it is on their own terms. So if your question is would it screw up your kids perspective on life if dad sits at home on the couch all day? Yes I think it would. You should model for him what life can be, and in fact if you find something of interest and start a business you might can give him a head start on a path to FI without just giving him money.
Nah, and that’s far from the biggest worry. I was raised by two FIRE parents that both retired before I was in first grade and have no problems working
I think of RE as trading paid work for unpaid work. Don’t just engage in leisurely pursuits. Find something that’s unpaid that makes a difference in the world and focus on doing that too. Your child will get all the inspiration he needs.
That you’re already thinking about the potential impact on your child is a good sign. Structure is important for kids, and if they’re still getting that then it should be fine. Also it would be great if they’re still exposed to how other families live. Good luck!
My single mom had two jobs period. Fast forward to today, I can’t take any advice from her because she never “lived it” and if she tries to slam the hammer down, I remind her she has no dog in the fight. Not to say this could happen with you, as long as you support and encourage your child.
You might. He will grow up with the idea of what work is based on his view of his parents jobs. I did. I did not know what my Dad did specifically until later, but I knew he got up every day, got dressed, and went to work. Every day. And that is how I am to this day (I am 52). My son emulates me (and his mom) in the same way.
There is literally nothing you can do about it. Pain and discomfort can be a positive in our lives. Too much comfort can be a negative. I cannot imagine a life without work, to be honest.
My advice to you would be to explain in very great detail how you arrived at your station in life. Make sure he understands that it is very rare and depends on an alignment of good habits and good market performance, but that there is a pathway.
That happened to me when my son was 4. I bought a few commercial properties and rent them out to young entrepreneurs (fitness studios, restaurants and bakeries). I also bake at home and deliver to neighbors so he sees me “working” plus i take him on weekends to help me clean up properties.. i think he values most that we are around when he needs us. We are the house where all kids hang out after school as their parents still work.. its what you make out of it.
Your kids definitely need to understand that they need to work, and that it might not be very rewarding starting out. Obviously this isnt a reason not to FIRE, but everyone saying love and affection is the only thing thats matters is delusional.
Imagine never seeing your parents work and then you have to give up your weekends working a menial retail job and you can barely afford rent. Or even starting at $50k doing some unrewarding office job. They’re going to be in for a shock if you dont set expectations early. They need to understand this type of thing is typical and surmountable.
If I were you I would do the following:
- communicate you are retired and how you got there. Contrast that with a more normal experience and tell them what you did differently
- expect them to work a part time job in high school and perhaps summer in college
- coach them in their career start. Offer your opinion on major, jobs, etc
The point is not to control - it's to inform and help but ultimately they need to comply with the guidance or not. If they don't take your advice, and they arent retired at 39, then they will know why and what they can do differently.
The point is simply to make them aware of what it takes in order to empower them and reduce any feeling of entitlement or shock.
Are you retiring to be lazy or selfish with your time, or will you be contributing to worth while things? The fact that you were prudent, worked hard enough and saved, is already setting a good example.
My mom never worked when I was a kid, and my dad was never home because he was always working. I never particularly cared about either situation because I was hardly ever home.
as long as you teach independence then I don’t see a cause for concern? I know someone who’s parent didn’t work and instead of teaching independence they did EVERYTHING for them so now hes nearly 25 and still at home with no job. he’s never been challenged in his life so any time there’s a tiny obstacle he gives up
U don't need a job to show your kid how to work hard. It may even be better because you can find a hobby or side hustle you enjoy and work hard at it and that will still be a model for them. Also the time you get to spend with your kid is going to be so much more valuable than them seeing you work some normie mentally draining 9-5 shit. Just go coach their baseball team and and be the best damn person you can be.
I know someone who's unskilled and never had a career. He inherited a fully paid off house and earns low six figures in interest a year. There's no motivation to work hard because hes comfortable and entry level jobs pay less than what he's already getting. For the past 5 years hes been spending time and money on video games and OnlyFans. He barely leaves the house at all. I get the sense he's lonely and has some mental health issues.
I think that for young kids I’ll repeat what others have said - no greater gift than being present.
Older kids, it gets more nebulous, and I’ll just share my anecdote:
My dad worked long hours throughout my childhood. He would often not be home until after dinner and because he owned his business, so even “non work” hours meant doing things like admin work, garbage, shoveling snow, etc.
What it meant for me was that my dad missed a lot of things early on in my childhood. He made a concerted effort to NOT miss things as time went on. I also learned the level of responsibility required for running your own business as I was constantly tagging along on weekends to help out. So it was a double edged sword, spending time with my dad but also sometimes feeling his stress.
Later on in my dad’s career, he became more successful and was able to back his hours way off. Before retirement, he was doing just 3 day weeks.
This had a rather disproportionate effect on my late teen/college aged younger siblings, who were living at home from then until their mid 20’s. For about a decade they became used to a family dynamic where most members were not working for 4 of the 7 days per week. IMO, it really messed with their perception of what a typical workweek might look like for the average worker, and they would seek out ways to reduce their working hours to reflect my dad’s schedule, to the detriment of their own career/ ability to earn.
One brother just isn’t working anymore. He’s a stay at home dad. He’s turned down a few opportunities to go back to work because his hours/productivity would be tracked. He left his old job because his productivity started to be tracked.
My other brother did not turn his career around until he approached 30 years old. He spent the entirety of his 20s working odd jobs in construction and landscaping, not staying for more than 18 months at any one position. His main gripes were always the hours and the rigor. He now has 1 kid and another on the way and has finally landed at a job with benefits and upward mobility and is really grinding away after thinking for so many years he would work a 3 day a week gig.
I retired when my oldest was born. I was your age. Don’t regret it one bit. The time I had with my kids when they were young is the best use of time. We took at least one long (more than a month) trip every year. When they got older I started a business. (I’m not great at being retired.) so they saw that part, too.
For a long time, kids had stay at home moms who didn't have a professional job outside the house and no one said that that was bad. it was rather said that it was important and needed and when women tried to work out of the house they were criticized for doing so because they were leaving their child " alone".
So I don't think it'll hurt your kid if you stay at home and take care of them.
You must be productive enough to FIRE so young. Do your best to be creative and busy with your hobbies and nourish that curiosity and desire to learn in your kid. You should think that you’ll have another job but this one is on your terms with higher consequences for failure
My father retired right after I was born. Well, my mom died, he quit his job, got some land from his grandparents and put a house on it. We lived in a rural area and we didn't have a lot of money, but he was always there.. I wouldn't go back and change anything if I could.
For reference, I'm a lurker here. Not exactly "retire early" as I'm 60 now and retiring at the end of the month. Just commenting on this because I personally know people who have been in this type of situation.
The only people I know that have this issue are the guys I know that are my age (60) or older and have young kids. I personally know 3 gentlemen my age who all have kids between the ages of 6-10. These kids all have fantastic relationships with their fathers in large part because they spend so much time with them. I would have loved to have more time to spend with the kids during my working years. If you plan to FIRE in the next year, your kid will have the opportunity to learn exactly how you accomplished this. I think this is a great opportunity to get you kid started down this path.
EDIT: Forgot to say that I love the entire FIRE idea. Some great information here and in the other FIRE subs. Wish I would have learned this stuff 20 years ago.
I explained to my daughter that I make my money from hard work that I’ve done in the past and from ideas that I had back then and continue to have now. She understands that this allows me to spend most of my time with her. My wife and I have taught her the power of saving and allowing your money to work for you. These are highly valuable lessons that my wife and I learned from our parents along with the entrepreneurial spirit that we impart daily.
Yeah honestly. From my experience witnessing a bunch of lazy trust fund kids who choose not to work vs trust fund kids who do choose to get a job, their kids are much better off.
If you do fun things with your kid and include him in your errands and make them fun thats what he will remember. My dad was a nurse so he had a bunch of random days off that he would take me on errands and fun things like hiking and swimming.
I retired at 40 and kid now in college. Very disciplined and high-achieving and I believe me being at home played a role as I was able to identify opportunities and ensure he was challenged and happy. I did not just sit around all day. I could see that being a problem.
To be perfectly honest, you will teach your child how to expect everything to be given to him or her. Children are not dumb. By the time they start school they already know that mom or dad works. If you already have a successful secure life keep it going. Not only will you teach them the value of a good work ethic you will also continue building for their future. If you don't set the example who do you think will?
Kids see their lives, and many think everything is free to them anyway. I managed to raise two that became millionaires, but we are struggling to motivate the grandkids. They see our hard work as a negative. They do not want work to be the center piece of their lives, and they may be right. They are good people and will have a great life. I was wishing g for a Dianisty. Your kids will probably be better off with you home. BUT just maybe you could buy a trailer and move to Appalachia..😇
Yeah, it probably will. I don't know what to tell you to do to attempt to demonstrate a suitable role model to counter this.
Kids learn more from our (parents) actions than from our words. Your kids can't watch you stealing stuff from stores when they go shopping with you . . . and then you spend years telling them it's wrong . . . your actions showed them it acceptable - and that's what they'll remember.
Being there ALL the time may seem like it's great for raising kids - but really, is it? There is an awful lot of very important learning and adjusting that kids learn when their parent isn't there every second - independence, individual decision making, risk taking, friendship/social development, developing certain levels of bravery and self confidence.
Trying to explain to your kids that hard work and a great work ethic sounds good - but if they never actually see it, what does it mean to them?
Then there is the confusion as to understand finance and money and earning and rewards.
I can understand what negative impacts this can have on your children maturing and becoming adults. I don't know what the right answer is, but I can totally comprehend why you are concerned.
My parents were very successful and retired early (i.e. in their 40's).
It didn't screw me or my sister up. If anything, they had more time to help us with homework, etc.
The one thing I *absolutely hated* was that they were always around, so I couldn't easily get into trouble at my house when I was in older. It was borderline impossible to smoke, drink, or fool around with girls when I was in high school. But in hindsight, that's probably not a bad thing, lol.
Yup. I knew it was time to go back to work after 5 years home with the kids when my young son said he wanted to be a "housewife" when he grew up. Yeah, no.
My father was always working and I feel nothing good came of that. I’ve got crazy work drive but in the sense of it being blended with frugality so that I can retire as soon as possible and live a very meager life. If he were truly there instead of at work i genuinely believe our lives would’ve been better even if it required less material comforts to be met.
I will work until normal retirement age to demonstrate good habits and work ethic to may children. I was able to FatFIRE within a year of my first child’s birth and before my second child’s birth, but I work and find purpose in life to be a good example for my children. All the happiest independently wealthy people I know have continued to work full or mostly full time. The nature of the job may change, but they still find purpose and achieve things. I am sure you can find a way to make the world a better place and set a good example for your kids along the way.
I went to school with some independently wealthy kids. The parents that I admired were those who used their financial freedom to enable them to be committed and engaged in some calling or vocation, whether paid or not. This set an inspiring example for their kids and others. For example, a lawyer working for the poor, could afford to accept a tiny salary. A teacher. Someone who started a free medical clinic, another a shelter for war refugees. A college professor who worked for $1 a year. A rich guy who loved to fish, and busted his butt working for coastal habitat preservation so there would be a healthy supply of fish. An artist; an opera singer. All these interesting occupations that you can only do if you don’t need money—-that to me is the best part of FIRE, and it’s consistent with being a good parent.
I'm reading a book called "how to be an adult" - its fantastic. Highly recommend. I think focus on teaching your kids independence, findings their passions, doing something that is hard (and that doesnt have to be job related!), and being willing to chip in. These are values that will matter in the work place
I don’t remember my parents working much. I loved having them at home and I still spend a lot of time with them because it’s always been the norm.
If anything, it made me want to work harder so that I could also eventually stop working (while still being able to afford a nice life).
My parents had lots of money conversations with us and we were aware of how hard they worked earlier in life to afford our lifestyle.
I have a 20 year old and a 15 year old and my husband and I have not worked in many years (about 8-9) due to him inheriting a great deal of money.
It's been tough not going to lie. There are good and bad from lots of different angles you never think about.
Unfortunately we ended staying in state/town that we are not completely in love with (family obligations and then not wanting to uproot kids).
Thankfully my son is in tech school and my daughter is motivated to work even at 15.
Many times I have wondered if things would be better or if we would be happier if we had jobs. Maybe part time jobs?
Staying at home with your kid all the time (and teenagers too!) is not all it's cracked up to be.
My advice is part time or casual work is the perfect compromise.
I don’t think so. Just remember there is a difference between not working and being lazy. If you are doing productive things with your time, your child will remember you for being a productive individual who didn’t waste their time.
My dad retired when I was 7 and it was awesome.
If anything it showed me how working hard, being smart with savings, and not spending on dumb stuff can really pay off. Now I’m in my mid-30s and am in a very healthy financial situation largely because of the things I learned from my parents.
He never sat idle in retirement. He volunteered a lot of his time and had a few side hustle passion projects. Plus we got to spend genuinely good time together that wouldn’t have happened if he hadn’t retired.
If you actually manage the household well you and spend time with your child you won’t actually have a life of leisure. Also if you actually spend your time teaching him, talking to him, trying to understand the world from his point of view you will be a hero.
My wife hit $3M at age 32. I didn't know it since we kept separate finances and I'm a trusting soul and I always expected to be the provider and I guess she didn't want me to slack on her money (she earned her money because her father gave her a couple of thousand at age 4 and taught her to invest ... she had been doing that for 28 years). I was earning good money and we had decided that it would make sense for her to stay at home which would take some stress off of me. So, we had 3 daughters who only knew a stay at home mom. They all grew up to be ambitious and hard working. We also started them off saving and investing their own accounts. My 27 year old passed a half million via buying NVidia and Tesla early. The 21 year old is poorest at $200K simply because they had less money to put into the above stocks.
I started doing startups, my wife kept investing and then inherited from her father, a machinist, who amassed $25M by investing. At this point, we're both healthy. I had startup successes that paid for a multi-million dollar house and put the kids through school with several million left over. ... Then one of my angel investments went big. I sold off about 30% and so we're both now about even at $14M each. I'm not even retired because I run a foundation and three different startups pay me to do strategic advice for about 8 hours total a week. I made it clear that I will randomly take vacations, even last minute w/o asking and will never cancel my plans for any emergencies. I call it the "wise grampa" role and my job is to make sure there will be no emergencies. I look at it as instead of keeping my "hands in tech" I keep my "fingernails in tech".
My main "issues" are tax strategies and I'm probably going to buy some apartment buildings managed by pros to provide generational passive income to kids and future generations.
No, just make you teach them about responsibility, values, and self-worth and put them in the best position possible to also make them selves successful in life.
This is about balancing being more physically and emotionally present vs the risk that the kid doesn't develop grit or doesn't understand all the aspects of working. I would almost always come out in favor of not working and being more present... I think the aspects of working can be learnt through many other means; watching close relatives or friends work, regular conversations etc. And as other have noted there are different approaches to "not working": you can play video games, sleep in etc, or you can volunteer, do lots of household work etc
This is a very interesting question. Parents are role models, that’s unavoidable, so unless you’ve achieved generational wealth then I’d say it will have some impact and consequences. How you navigate that will be interesting.
My 3 daughters, all doing very well, struggle with what they see as the inequities of today’s economy versus what my wife and I faced 35 or 40 years ago. They perceive this as being “unfair”.
They did however grow up seeing my work ethic and the sacrifices I made. My wife became a SAHM with the birth of our second daughter, something my daughters see as almost unimaginable today.
I can only imagine what my children would think today if both my wife and I lived lives of so called leisure, when they were young. They’re envious enough of our lives in retirement and I didn’t retire until almost age 65 after a 44 year career.
Again, great question.
I've thought about this too, but I think ultimately it could serve as motivation for your kid. My mother told me when I was starting kindergarten that there was no way she could pay for my college. She said I had to get straight A's my entire time in school so I could go to college and get a good job. That's exactly what I did. Just maybe make sure your kid knows that you put in work to get where you are and he can do it too
Just from my experience, absolutely not. My mom retired when I was four years old. My dad continued to work. My mom did pretty much everything with me and we're very close. I'm close to my dad too, but in a different way because he was less physically present.
You might run into issues if they see you doing nothing but "living a life of leisure" though. Again just my experience, but my mom spent her time contributing to the community by volunteering at schools (general parent stuff, tutoring challenged kids, learning braille to tutor a blind student, helping kids apply to college, etc), at church, driving other kids around, playing piano at nursing homes, being on the board of a couple local organizations, etc. She didn't have a job but she certainly modeled the behavior of a person with a strong work ethic who takes on and fulfills responsibilities.
And she did this in addition to doing a bunch of fun stuff, having many hobbies and friends. Crazy how much time and energy not having a job frees up!
Potentially maybe to be honest.
Gen Z as an example is the least motivated generation in recorded history. I know I know this is directly related to the housing crisis, bad wages and an overall system that benefits wealth over work however that’s not going to change it’s only going to get worse.
I don’t think the working piece really matters. I learned hard work from my mom, she stopped working around the time I was in middle school. She didn’t suddenly stop being a hard worker it just showed up in different ways. That being said as your kid grows up it’s important that you start giving them ways to feel independent and have some alone time. The only thing I disliked when my mom stopped working is that she was always there. When I was a teen I was really jealous of the kids who got to have a couple hours alone between when school ended and when their parents finished work. Even younger than that, because you have a lot of free time it’s important that you don’t trend towards making them your work. Some of the worst kids I’ve seen are the ones where the parents are always present and solving all of their kids problems. You need to be willing to still let them learn on their own a little bit.
This may be an unpopular opinion but: My mom was a badass business woman who decided to stay home when I was born. I obviously don’t know anything else so I can’t attest to exactly what effect it had on me. But now that I am a young woman in the workforce, I wish I had seen her in her prime as a business woman. I feel like I missed out on seeing her in a huge part of her life, and she had so many gifts and abilities and I never saw her go after a goal in the same way. She is of course a role model to me regardless but I wish I had more memories and examples to pull from about how she dealt with work.
This could be true as you look at it now but do you have any kids? Kids change things in a way that's hard to describe. I was all work work work before my first and now I look back and look at it all as a game. It was a fun game I enjoyed but I don't know if I can play at the same level with the same hours anymore.
I retired at 36. I spend 40 hours a week doing hard shit. I lift weights 10 sessions a week, I bike to those sessions, I sauna 5 days a week, I ruck 10 miles a day with a 50lb pack and I’m planting an orchard. Probably fuck up your kid if you do the dishes, laundry, vacuum, then play video games all day, but if you do that you probably won’t live long anyway so I’m sure he’ll forget all about it. If I was gonna spend the rest of my life ‘doing nothing but managing the household’, I’d just go back to work.
If you really wanna take it easy, still do the best you can to live as long as possible and pour everything you have into being the best dad you could ever be and you’ll do the exact opposite of fucking your kid up.
I’m 45 year old dad with a 13 and 10 year old daughters. I don’t work. Wife works. I made wise investments young and was able to not have to work.
I felt really guilty and almost ashamed for not working. A friend of mine who is a doctor told me, you are giving your girls something far more valuable then money. He said you’re providing them your presence and time, which is priceless. It changed my the way I looked at it. I’m always available for my kids and am present.
Same doctor friend said to: “I had money and provided my kids a nice life, but I was hardly there to enjoy it with them”.
The volunteering idea is great… also as they get older, maybe start a business out of doing something they love.
One family I knew had a “Go Kart” sales, service and consulting business. Started out as the kids hobby but ended up paying for their college and one ended up opening his own auto repair shop as an adult.
Another family I knew started a band and toured around performing. The daughter later became a pretty well known country western singer and even acted in a Tom hanks movie.
Help your kids find their passion and show them they can make it something that produces income but doesn’t seem like work.
Maybe going against the grain but yeah I do think it will negatively impact him. I’d try to find a non-profit or serve on a board of some kind so that you’re working toward something. Probably better for you as well.
I grew up with both parents not exactly *having* to work.
(Some inherited money, an extreme amount of frugality, and some just plain luck, as well as having children a little later in life.)
But one of my parents was a farmer and boatbuilder, the other was an artist and later taught elementary school before going back to the arts. They had friends, family, hobbies etc.
I did end up with the idea that I didn't want to be working as a corporate drone for most of my adult life...
...
...but is that a bad thing?
I had parents who cared about spending time with me and my sister, and who also spent time on things that they cared about.
I went on to get a master's degree in engineering and work in several high-profile jobs before going on my own in my 30s. And I still have a great relationship with my parents. Am currently in my 40s and thinking about how I'm going to take care of them as they get older and roles start to change.
Wouldn't trade my life for anything.
So ...
I do think that if they only see you sitting on your ass watching TV or scrolling social media that would be bad for them. But wouldn't that also be bad for *you*?
It's not really about them seeing you work for someone else; it's about them seeing that you're still active and engaged with the world and working towards personal goals, while prioritizing friends and family.
Those are the things that really matter once financial survival isn't your sole and immediate priority.
Unless you're planning to sit on your ass smoking weed and playing Grand Theft Auto for 12 hours a day, this doesn't seem like something to worry to much about.
I think you need to spend some time actively participating with the outer world in some capacity. No.matter what you tell them, kids learn by actions, what you do. They need to see models of engagement and responsibility with the world beyond the household. Otherwise they will think the world revolves around them.
I’m reading a few books on the issue at present one being Raised Healthy, Wealthy & Wise by Edwards-Pitt and The Myth of Silver Spoon by Keffeler which are insightful.
By the time my kid is in kindergarten, I’ll have 8+ figure NW and largely work from home putting together deal flow.
I built my business around this paradigm and wouldn’t have it any other way though I want my sons to have strong work ethic and chase excellence in the areas of their choice.
Unpopular opinion: it is good to see your father working.
Not hating himself. Not so consumed by work that you aren’t emotionally present. Not addicted to work. But it is good to see a father work.
Your average person is not ready to retire at 40, and frankly, there are many signals that say the youngest generation may not be able to retire at all.
Could lead to a strong cognitive dissonance not seeing you work and earn what you have, but trying to get their himself.
Again. Just opinion.
I’m going to go against the popular belief being expressed and say that your work ethic, despite obviously being great considering your early retirement, will not translate well to your children if they only see you lounging around. My parents both were very wise with their finances and worked relatively easy and remote jobs my whole life and I severely struggle with motivation and discipline. I do well for myself and I learned great things from them but I never saw them “try” per se. It could just be a me thing but I don’t have a reference point on what hard work looks like.
I still resent the fuck out of my mom for not getting a damn job. She still doesn’t work. We struggled hard on my dad’s tiny salary. A family of 4 has a hard time eating on 1 salary. Once I started school, she should have tried to work to make our lives better. Watching soap operas all day didn’t help us as a family. I wore hand-me-downs and shared a bedroom with my sister. It was rough. She could have tried to work to help us survive. Fuck her.
But if you are comfortable, then it probably dorsn’t matter.
I worked with the first two kids, by the time number 3 came it just made financial sense for one of us to stay home. Here’s the kicker- you do more work as a SAH parent than many jobs. It’s a 24 hour job with breaks when your partner is home. Mine traveled most weeks, so it was all me. My kids have never thought less of me- matter of fact they loved that I was involved with their school stuff, drove them and all their friends to & from school., was room Mom, volunteered at school frequently, drove all over for all their activities, never missed a game or match! Plus every other aspect of their lives- I was all in! They always saw me working, so I was never treated “less than” my working spouse.
YOU ARE EMPLOYED, don’t let anyone make you feel bad about taking time to raise your children. My 4 employers are now all over 18 and are doing amazing!
You will teach them. Being honest and present means you get to have more time to influence and teach them to achieve the same goal. Don’t let them think they get your money even if you plan too. Teach them the same motivation and mindset.
Yep. If you just “manage the household” and otherwise do nothing productive, the kids model this and expect it out of life.
But if you work with commitment on something, even if it’s just your passion and makes no money, they will observe that too.
The act of generating income is not visible but the act of working toward some goal, serving your community, improving and growing, that is visible.
I handled this by teaching my daughter about business and how I made decisions that afforded us this life we have.
It’s extra effort but kiddos will absorb what you expose them to.
Are you asking if it’s going to screw up your child to have his parents present in his life and not constantly stressed or busy with work?
No. No it will not.
I think it will heavily depend on how you spend your time around your kids. I know a guy that built a huge business that you have probably heard of. He sold and cleared his billion or whatever he made. You ask his kids what he does for work and they say "I don't know. He plays video games all day" those kids likely have a skewed understanding of what it takes to be successful.
I finished high school in one of the top 3 wealthiest zip codes in my state. As I hung out with groups from my city through my 20s I often contemplated on why both the guys and girls my age thought it was so simple to just have some good idea for a business, consult other businesses, and "never work a day in my life" (if I had a dollar for every time I heard that euphemism I too would never have to work a day in my life).
The only conclusion I can come to is all of these peoples parents built their multi-million dollar companies while they were kids, or maybe not even born yet. So they didn't see or don't remember what kind of sacrifices their parents had to make in order to be in a position to buy their 10k+ square foot McMansion and $300k boats and so now they have a skewed understanding of what it takes to be successful.
So, like I say, I think it just heavily depends on how you spend your time and what you teach your kids. If you're retired and teach them how to work hard and be financially responsible then they'll be just fine. But if they just believe that your success just magically happened and you didn't have to do anything to get it, they too might think they can "never work a day in their life".
It is entirely possible that if you don’t show a good work ethic to your children that they will not develop one. Is that what you want to see in your kids having said that you’ve worked hard for this so what are you gonna do?
Maybe.
My daughter suggested I get a proper job like a hairdresser instead of playing on my phone. I’m also a volunteer fire fighter which doesn’t count because I volunteer supposedly….
As they get older and get their first minimum wage job they’ll realise how it was pretty epic that dad did school drop off, pick up, football, and everything else and every now and again had to go play on his phone.
The word you’re looking for is “stay at home dad” and there’s nothing wrong with that. I’d say you may be in for a rude awakening if you think managing a household is leisurely
Being both physically and emotionally present is just about the greatest gift you can give a child. So if that's what it will look like, that's gonna be one lucky, stable, well adjusted kid. Now if you're gonna sit around and play video games and get high all the time and just ignore him or hire a nanny while you do nothing at all, that's another story. But if you guys keep busy and happy doing fun, active, healthy things together, that's like the ideal childhood. Enjoy.
I’d recommend doing something you actually enjoy with some of your time that has some aspect of a job to it to show and teach your kids. Whether it is volunteering, joining the board of some non profit etc. Kids don’t really understand income etc. at a young age but a “job” you could bring them to and see you actually enjoying and contributing to could be a great alternative
My mother was a library volunteer. It never earned her a penny but it had an enormous influence on my life.
Exactly
This is my plan. They see me actively engaged and building/contributing to something that will set a good example. They don’t need to know I don’t get paid for it
This for sure.
If leaving your kids everyday to have a stress sandwich shortening your life is a way to teach your kid some values, I'd think I'll pass.
I guess that's one take on what it means to work..
right? some of us happen to enjoy the work we happen to be paid to do...
I think studies back this up. Children do better with more parental attention. it's why only children do best, followed by the oldest siblings. More parental attention.
Best by what standards? Test grades? Wouldn't really address OP's concerns.
I’d be interested in this data. Skeptical… but open minded.
This strikes me as a radical oversimplification of parenting by someone who has no children. My 2 cents as someone who has struggled with this subject. It is important to show your kids that work is meaningful and connected to financial health. I do believe that financial literacy, chores etc. are the most important component to this but I do think there is something about showing some connection between how you spend your hours and sustaining a lifestyle. I know this is somewhat adverse to the mantra of this sub. Don’t get me wrong, being on the road 150 days a year and missing all sporting events has a far worse impact but having grown up with a few kids who had “financially independent” non-working parents they are, shall we say, not the most productive members of society. All 3 of them are just aimless. Clearly qualitative but also true. My plan is to make sure I have a visible occupation until all 3 of my kids are in 8th grade or so. After that I think they are old enough to get it. Visible doesn’t mean lucrative, it means what it says… in my case coaching.
My friend grew up with his parents retired. I can honestly say he is one of the most well rounded person on the planet with skills and hobbies in so many different areas. I think you will be fine
I feel like it’s ideal for me as a parent, but am concerned I won’t be teaching him a good work ethic.
I can understand that but don't think you need to worry about that so long as you're active in your community and demonstrate responsible, accountable behaviors (self-care, routine, discipline, health, physical activity). Those are the traits that make up work ethic. Work ethic is just the end result of a healthy, disciplined, structured, active lifestyle. That can look like a 9-5 or just lots of community engagement, structure, predictability, and commitment to things you care about (family, hobbies, or a job).
No fucking way, at least not kindergarten. My kids are going through that now and I'm stress with job and clearly in impact them in some way. I'd be more curious about the impact in high school when they look for more serious aspiration, but I suppose that by that point I'll be long done too... but in kindergarten they just want you there. Sometimes I just wish I could hit a 10 year pause and pick it back up where I was career wise, nest egg wise, and everything, and pay off those 10 years when you 'actually' retire. More great time with the kids, and more sports with a capable body.
I had a similar concern and it was one reason I went back to work. I was "pretired" from the time my daughter was 6. I care that she learned that working is a positive thing and provides for the family, and I wanted her to know what I did. I went back to a regular career job when she was 13, and this is what she remembers now, which the way I much prefer it. At that point in her life, she was still pretty family-oriented, but I expected my years of high influence to be limited. I didn't want my kids to ever think that money was something you just "have." I want them to have a good model for how one can build wealth and how consistent hard work and intelligent financial management and frugality play into that equation.
I think that's the way to do it. I have some older friends and I'm the same age as their kids (parents are mid 50s, I and their kids are late 20s/early 30s). Both of their kids are pretty lazy tbh. The parents were really hard working/scraping by in their 20s but became extremely successful in the mid30s and are now quite wealthy. One parent became a sahp when the kids were \~8ish? and 'retired' when they graduated high school. A lot of it is lifestyle creep from the POV of the kids, who were too young to remember the hard days, but also I think are modeling what they see in the retired parent. I mostly only interact with the parents but I get the impression that the kids have the 'work to live' mindset without actually working that much. They very much bankrolled by the parents and I'm REALLY curious to see how the grandkids will end up as I'm doubtful the generational wealth will last that long. The parents, who remember the hard working days, just want their kids to be happy & fulfilled and I don't think realize the downsides. I'm also pretty judgey since I'm the same age as the kids but can't imagine being so clueless about what the value of a dollar is lol.
Are you able to teach how you achieved chubbyfire? Unless you won the lottery or inherited money, I’m assuming you had a strong work ethic for a period of time. If so, teach him that. Trust me, being present, having fun, and teaching your kids is the best gift for them.
Being retired doesn't mean being dormant. You can still do things that need to be done, take responsibility for the household, and even work on some fun hobby projects to demonstrate a work ethic. There's nothing saying that if it's not in service of the national GDP then it's not "work".
I’m coast fired from home and my wife homeschools our kids. When my kids take a break I take breaks with them, picnics, tennis etc. they’ve never once asked why I wasn’t working much, and they’re the coolest kids I’ve met.
I think the question is, how are your kids going to react when they graduate college and potentially enter a career that isn’t as lucrative or as flexible as yours and realize they have 45+ years of grinding ahead of them before they can afford to retire. I worry a lot about whether I’m setting my kids up to feel like failures if they can’t land a job like I have and make as much as I do (which statistically is almost certainly going to be the case). Beyond that, I do think it’s important that my kids see that there are times when I don’t get to do the fun things but instead fulfill my obligations. In all likelihood my kids won’t have the luxury of taking breaks to play tennis in the middle of the day and I wonder if it’s good to normalize that for them when they are young.
Most of us in this sub might have the same feeling My teenager has the luxury of thinking what kind of career to choose to have impact on topics that matter to him, as opposed to me being in a high paying job that contributes little to the world I have worked my way up and out of poverty but he only remembers how we’ve been living since I have become an exec I’m trying to do a career transition towards sustainability and he already told me that it would be more important to him that I do something that I like and have an impact, rather than him getting luxury things (verbatim) There’s no doubt in my mind that 1) my high paying career will end in some shape and form 2) he will also have to work his way up in his chosen field like all of us did
I struggle with this as well. My kids were too young/not born when I was grinding hard; 3hr daily commute, long hours, 50% travel. Now I work from home, have flexible hours and spend a lot of time with them. Being present in their life is great and I wouldn’t change it for the world, but I do worry that they may think I achieved the level of financial success I have working from home in a cushy job.
I share this concern. I did start ups and while I didn’t have a huge payout, I did pretty well and earned much of what will make the rest of my life comfortable in my 20s and early 30s, before kids. They aren’t going to see any of that grind, determination, stress. Not sure how it’ll be for them, but there isn’t much I can really do about it (no way I’d be willing or able to work those type of hours again).
Very well thought out response, thank you
Show discipline by volunteering (get the kids involved over the years), keeping fit, going to school events, etc. There are a lot of ways to model work ethic
You can teach that around the house and in life in general. Getting up and being where you’re supposed to be when you say you will. Running errands and keeping to responsibilities. Just be a productive person in general. The productivity can benefit the household and the family and even yourself. Think of it as a productivity ethic rather than a work ethic. It’s even more compelling that the inertia comes from within and not from a boss telling you to do it. I still that in him by modeling that, and he’ll become an even more productive adult than one whose parent was away from home slaving at a job.
You'll be teaching him what to work *for* The tragedy I see in this world is people doing jobs they hate to buy things they don't need to impress people they don't like. If a "good work ethic" means slaving away to make others rich whilst "putting up" with a stressful job then I hope my kids don't have a good work ethic. I'd rather teach them to have meaningful goals and work hard towards them.
Use some of the newfound free time you will have to read up on child development research and studies
The lawn isn't going to mow itself. Plenty of opportunities to build a work ethic.
Kids don’t “watch their parents work”. They just hear “I need to go to work now” then they disappear and come back later. They have no concept of what work actually is until they are in their teens.
Even then, most people have no idea what an office job entails except for what they see on TV or in movies. Unless you are in the trades or do something visible like retail or service work, most jobs are invisible to your kids.
I WFH and my kids look at me so confused when I say “give me five minutes I’m still working” and I’m sitting on the couch with just my phone.
Exactly this. You don’t instill a work ethic in kids by disappearing for 40 hours/week - you do it by being hands on with them and supportive with their challenges. So much easier to do the latter when you’re not “working”.
Came here to say this. My two tweens have no clue other than work is something that happens, in their minds, at random times during the day
I think OP is suffering from the “other people view the world in the same way as I do” fallacy. I’m not calling them out - everyone does that to some extent. People think their kids will respect them if they are rich, or if they work hard, or if they have an important title. Maybe some kids do, but most don’t. That’s just you thinking that what *you think is important* is the same thing your kids think is important.
Parents can help with this by talking about/showing their kids tangible realities of work life in the way kids can understand. As a kid, I learned more about responsibilities/work life and the importance of education from my dad saying things in the moment like: "I have to make a call because people I work with are depending on me to help accomplish (whatever the work goal he was currently involved in)." "I sure am glad I learned what I did in my accounting classes in college because now I can help business owners make good decisions about XYZ." "Typing is a skill I learned in high school that I use every day. I couldn't do my job as well without it." I saw him ordering flowers for secretary appreciation day (it was the early 90s), going to weddings and funerals of his associates, sending Christmas cards to people he worked with all over the country, etc. Make it real for kids by explaining the "why"; don't just disappear for 40 hours a week.
Your parents never talked about their day at home?
Sure, but as a kid it meant nothing. I had no idea what my dad’s office job actually was until I entered the workforce.
Yea kids have no concept of work. Other than firefighter, teacher and a few other public sector jobs they literally don’t know what you do for 8 hours a day until they themselves start doing it.
I've been FIREd since my daughter was around 6. She's 10 now. I guess it depends a bit on what you do with your life. If you watch Netflix all the time, it sets one example. If you're working on your dozens of hobbies, you're setting another example. I tell my kids that life is exciting and there are so many things to do! I'm always writing or building or whatever. So when my daughter comes home from school and wants to play cards, and I decide that I'd like to work on my projects a little - I get the standard response. "Why do you always have to work?!" Which is too funny. Because I walk her to school, and walk her home. She's with me 80% of the time she's not at school, and we're constantly doing activities. I'm 100% convinced that a present, interesting parent is wildly better than an absent, hardworking parent. And I think as long as I'm keeping myself busy with productive things, she understands that this is how daddy "works".
Great to hear this perspective from someone living it, thank you.
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I can cry as well but that will be extra.
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The world is full of successful people that had stay at home parents.
I’m not FIREing yet but already have this same concern. My kids already seen and hear how much effort I put into achieving “flexibility” at work so that I can spend more time with them and pursue my own fitness hobbies. I do sometimes worry a bit that I’m not modeling sufficiently dedication and hard work to my profession. On the other hand, most of my life experience suggests that what messes up kids the most is absent / uninvolved parents… so, I don’t worry THAT much about it.
So you’re going to model a happy mom and dedicated parent for him… he will survive this trauma ;)
Very true, but most kids don’t have BOTH parents staying at home. Maybe I’m worried over nothing.
I think you might be worried over something that is likely not an issue. Make sure you have a diverse group of friends and role models your kid can see for whatever that matters to you, eg, you might want to show him that not all families look like yours not just in the staying at home department but maybe in religion, or language, or profession, or being divorced, or having two moms/dads, etc.
Maybe consider if you have family friends of all socioeconomic groups? So your kiddos have exposure to not just a “bubble” And you might need to explain why your kid’s friends or schoolmates’ parents both work, versus why you and your spouse don’t work (come up with a good ELI5 for that occasion) It’s a sign of a good parent that you’re thinking about this proactively, so kudos 🙌
I think this is an important question you're asking. Kids learn so much by example.
I do think this is complicated. My husband and I are in chubby territory and maybe heading toward fat-ish as dual high earners. We have a 6 month old son who I would love to stay home with. I’ve decided to delay my retirement/stay at home mom era because we want 1 more child and I’m afraid that if we have a girl specifically, she won’t remember that her mom was an engineer who built our wealth as the higher earner some years, but a wife with a successful husband. Also the future is uncertain so keeping some work/skills that may earn income is probably worth it if you are motivated to do so. Totally dial back if that works for you, but do something that feels worth it.
What I remember about my parents from when I was little was affection, arguments, and what they chose to reinforce about each other to us (mostly good, some bad).
As a parent of a girls, I think your heart is in the right place to want to show this example. However you are talking about delaying retirement while the kids would be home, only to retire when they will be spending like 7 hours a day at school. Not saying stay at home parent is for everyone, but if this idea of showing your kids a hard working engineer woman is what’s stopping you, I think you’re missing the big picture. There will be plenty of opportunities to show them that. I would guess there is more to it than that though.
There might not be time later. Technical roles are very unforgiving of time out of the workforce, especially for moms, and girls with working moms have better financial and professional attainment on average. Also weighing opportunity costs, I can quit at any time or reach a point where I can request dialing back work instead of further promotions but I may never be able to come back at my current level if I stay home for a few years so I’m seeing how it works for me and my family.
Both of my parents FATfired around the time I was born, when they were several years younger than you are now. I am now in my late 20s and they still don’t work. Looking back, it was obviously great having them around and my entire childhood was quality time. However… with everything on a plate, and having never really been unsupervised or fending for myself, I quickly ran into issues around authority and independence in my early teens which could have easily tripped me up (more than it did). The lack of economic necessity, purpose and a social network coupled with an excess of wealth left my parents fairly isolated, and this made me isolated too. I had no proper understanding of money or its value, of the importance of saving, or any real idea of the difficulties life could hold until university. Quite a shock to the system. Despite winding up with the finest education money can buy, I still have issues with discipline and long-term diligence, and it was a complete fluke (and through much reflection) that I have ended up fairly normally adjusted. There is a lot I will never have in common with the vast majority of people I will ever meet. If you want to avoid this from happening to your children, (and you want to retire) you will have to work extremely hard to be a consistently good role model over a very long time frame. You must avoid becoming complacent about your lifestyle, and you must not forget how and why you ended up here. My parents were from poor backgrounds, were extremely fortunate and didn’t know anyone else in a similar position - which is perhaps why they weren’t as aware of these hazards as they could have been. Am I happy with my upbringing? Of course. But do I wish my parents had stayed at work, or at least done something? Absolutely, without a doubt. I have seen that life up close, and I have no desire to follow in their footsteps. I work even though I don’t have to, and I’ll probably never stop as so long as I am still doing something I enjoy. PM if you have any Qs.
You can spend this time feeding him healthy meals, spending quality time with him, being active outside, reading with him, helping with his education and homework, being active at his school, and being attentive to what makes him happy. My suggestion would be to Rest, Play, Grow by Debra Macnamara. If he is beyond preschool, check into her other stuff. https://macnamara.ca/books/ Her stuff is based on a long history of studies from the guy she studied under. Lots of good science. Good data about raising a child without messing them up by pushing too hard or not doing enough. Become super dad and come back to let us know how your progressing.
That’s a good problem to have It also depends if you’re a trust fund baby or FIREd due to hard work and smart investments. I’d explain in an age appropriate way how you got there And be active in the community, volunteer. I haven’t Fired yet but I’m a start up mentor in sustainability on a voluntary basis and I talk about it a lot with my teenager
Thought about this same thing and decided I'll work until my youngest is 12 or 13 at minimum. I don't have to work but I want them to see and grow up in a fully functional household.
I’ve had a similar concern. I think I might try to devote my time when they are in school to community groups, nonprofits, or other side projects. That way they can see you dedicating your effort to something you care about, and maybe even be somewhat involved with those activities more than they could be involved with your job before retiring.
You can teach work ethic in all kinds of ways! Sure, if you retire and sit home on the couch 24/7, gain 75lbs and let your health go to crap then absolutely is a bad example. My husbands dad was working and mom was SAHM and I remember her saying she did not want parents both staying home (despite them could have affording it) because they wanted to set a work example. We are both wanting to retire when kids are in elementary school, so when I asked my husband what he remembered about his dads work ethic he said things like : he coached my swim team and worked to make schedules and book everything for tournaments, he taught me how to fix my car, he took care of fixing everything around the house. he didn't see what his dad did when he WENT to work, just what he did around the kids, at home.
My mom was a single parent and a SAHM (had some early investments pan out well that afforded her that luxury-not because of child support LOL). No. If anything, this will give you an amazing opportunity to teach him how to work hard. I feel like as long as you’re an active parent, he won’t think anything of it.
Yeah I think so. But will you really just live a life of leisure? Most people who retire early end up doing something more meaningful in their life. Community service, maybe passion project, or a lifestyle business maybe?
A child learns work ethic from a lot more than just seeing a parent disappear and goto work. And it’s entirely feasible to teach them all these lessons without grinding a job yourself. Those lessons can be imparted very effectively by a parent who spends time with them, engaged at home. Now if your idea of “live a life of leisure” is to smoke weed all day and not participate in your kids life, I’d change my opinion about the parenting value.
Retired since 48 when my kids were pre-teen and teen. Yes, it's a valid concern. But #1, encourage them to pursue their dreams and calling like you did/are. And #2, don't give the impression that they're necessarily.going to inherit a big pot of money so they dont have to work.
My dad WFH and semi retired since I was 10 years old (I’m now 30). I ended up working hard and became a physician specialist in radiology so I could WFH and live well too. It will be fine
Different perspective here. I dated a guy for several years who was an only child and his parents had him later in life (early/mid 40s) and they both retired when he was very young. So he grew up thinking that the norm was having 2 stay-at-home parents. He hated working so much that it became unbearable to me and I ended the relationship. He spent hours every day complaining about work. Not actual complaints about his work environment, just vague complaints about all the stuff he could be doing between 9am-5pm every day. It was like he truly didn’t understand that adults have jobs and go to work. And fwiw he was a doctor making about $500k/year. Very cushy. Not working in an Amazon warehouse or something physically strenuous like that.
That has always been my worry too.
I understand the concern but living your life to satisfy someone else (even your own children) is a recipe for failure. The best thing you can do for your kid is to be authentic to your values, to be the best version of yourself and to be present for them. In practical terms all your kindergartener cares about is how much you're willing to play with them. What you're describing is maybe a concern in high school. Do you really want to sacrifice ten years of your life for some hypothetical lesson your kid may or may not learn? Also what are you planning to do in retirement? Though I do not expect to have a full time job I will be quite busy. My kid will remember a mother who helped foster kids navigate the system, or taught stranger's children to read, or prioritized lifelong learning by taking extension classes or prioritized health by going hiking in the mornings. And yet was fully present when he needed her. Volunteering in your kid's school an hour a week would be a great way to show both your love and your values, while giving back to your local community.
The main risk will be over-parenting I think. I see this a LOT now (we have a business that deals with kids). We’ve seen kids that have had so much done for them that they literally shut down and run back home after their first semester of college.
your kids will probably not have the desperation, hunger, and fear-driven drive to success at any cost. but perhaps he will discover meaning, build resilience in a way that is more healthy?
Have you read the blog by Mr. Money Mustache? I think that he and the kid's mom had retired early before his birth. The kid is now an adult, and I don't know how MMM's lifestyle affected the kid, but he does talk at length about how he was able to spend a lot more time being a dad than most fathers with full time jobs
À child doesn’t care about your job. He will just remember how nice and present you were for him. The culture of work is such a joke that it reaches a point which convinced us it is more important than creating bonds with family
I may be in the minority here, but I do think showing some work ethic (having some sort of career) does influence how kids grow up and perceive their own future. I am 41. I had a serious girlfriend 20 years ago in college and soon after whose father had a traditional job working for the county. He worked 9-5, no more, no less, and took his 6 weeks vacation a year. He took off the entire month of August (which to me says your job isn’t necessary if you can be gone that long and nobody misses you). He never made more than $100k a year in exchange for his pension. When I got my first job working in finance in a major city, I worked 7am-6pm. I didn’t take a day off for a year because I wasn’t entitled to one. My girlfriend blew a fuse and didn’t understand why I was working so hard. Although by finance standards, my hours weren’t awful at all. She definitely wanted a husband who punched a clock. I wanted to eventually get to ChubbyFIRE. I’m in a position where I could ChubbyFIRE after 20 years of working but I’m still working mainly to keep padding my retirement and have my kids see that Dad goes to work. While I don’t work crazy hours and I don’t push myself hard anymore, we can argue the positives and negatives of that, I do want my kids to know that their life and my life was funded by something. My in laws (not parents of my college girlfriend…I married someone else luckily), were the opposite of me. They came from means and inherited money and just waited around for people to die to keep living a trust fund life. When they blew through their funds and people stopped dying, they didn’t know how to earn a living because nobody ever showed them how. And now they barely get by. My father in law admits his shortcomings and says nobody ever showed him how to be industrious. So while you don’t have to bust your ass, I’d try to show your kids there’s some benefit to work and that’s how you got to where you are today.
I left a great engineering job to do this. There is nothing better in the world than watching your child grow up daily and helping nurture them along correctly. You will have a great stable young adult of you do everything correctly.
I coached a girl who her parents had her late in life like 42 and retired early so she never remembered them working. She was the absolute coolest kid. Super smart, well spoken, kids in high school didn’t really get her but she didn’t care she was so confident. She spent every summer with her parents living in another country so she spoke 4 languages. Just the coolest kid known to man. She went to a prestigious college and just became a reporter for a big paper. I think they’ll be just fine if she is any indicator for what having constant support at home is like!
I think it is important to see your parents working. Unless you have enough to provide the same lifestyle to them I would advise that you get a hobby job.
The kids will NOT remember if you was working or not when they are young. You cannot screwup them this way. Kids can process only information matching their ability. Until they are 10-14 they only will recall if their dad was playing ball with them, running in a park, being around their mom everyday. The issue of passing work values between generations can be an issue later. I do not know that. But with your resources you can seek a professional advise later on when they are teens.
I love the fact my kids don't know what I do for a living. There's one thing that they do know; I am always there, whatever recital, every play, every field day, every event. I'm there. Theres times I have business to attend to and I'll call it work but that's just the easiest way to make it relatable. Being there for them is so important to me. There's time to instill work ethic, accountability and responsibility and having a job working for someone else isn't going to do that.
Get involved doing something. Really anything positive. Show them that you’re living a life of purpose. It could be anything from a hobby, to some passion that you have. Showing them that you have passion and purpose in your life is much more important than showing them that you have a 9-5 job.
What matters is putting effort into what you do, treating people with respect, having boundries, listening, being around to guide them, etc. Be a role model and an actual good human being, and the child will be fine. Whether you're working or not is less important; there are a lot of bad parents that work and bad ones that do not work.
It's a good scenario to think through. Overall, you spending more time with him will be supremely beneficial. Explaining to him what FIRE is later in his life will help him understand and hopefully will inspire him to do the same. I can't see a downside here. Kids are used to seeing parent rush to work early, come home late and be stressed about work. It's a vicious cycle that is not healthy for any kid, yet it's the norm in society
We will probably plan to retire several years later than you, but this question is still on our minds, because our kids will still be pretty young. It's not an easy question, but our current plan is to do our best to cultivate a strong sense of curiosity about the world and an ethic about finishing what you set out to do in the hopes that a good work ethic emerges independently out of personal desire. Secondly, when the kids get old enough we hope to be transparent with them about how working hard and saving was a big component of being able to buy ourselves the freedom that they might see now, and might not see with their peers' parents, and that if they wanted that too, that is something they can pursue too.
So, my dad basically did this around the same age (40-ish). I was older (mid-teens) so I remember my dad working massive hours when I was a kid as he was building up his business, then all of a sudden having all this free time and flexibility when I was older (15 or so) as he no longer needed be involved in the day-to-day. It definitely skewed my expectations of what a day could/should look like, but gave me a solid understanding of the connection between hard work and eventual freedom. I’m in my late 30s now, deep in the hustle stage, and I have much clearer financial and personal goals than my friends whose parents retired at a typical age. You can teach a child how to have a work ethic without being in paid work, but they might not make the same connection if they don’t see their parent use their time for good in some way. Community service, involvement in their school, mentoring, using your talents wisely.
It will require conversations as they grow up. You can tell them what you did to be able to live the lifestyle you have and help them chart a similar path if they want to.
I have a home office. Spend time in there managing your personal accounts / investments, etc. Not sure what your FIRE plan is but if it involves rental properties you will have a business to run and your kid will see that
Not if you explain to him that it isn't about daddy isn't a deadbeat, daddy busted his butt to get to where he is, saved religiously, gave up immediate gratification for long term security and explain to him in detail what you did and how you did it. If you're lucky he'll grow up and be able to do the same.
Not necessarily. All my father did was work and I’m screwed up.
You’re going to teach your child about financial independence and be present. You will explain how you worked hard and were the exception due to that hard work, not the rule.
I work from home and I wonder if my kids will be disappointed if they actually end up with a job in an office.
Screw up? I doubt it, but I share the exact same concerns. I want my kids growing up knowing I worked. Kids are the ultimate copycats as you’ve likely already seen. You don’t need to teach kids so much as be a present, healthy positive example for them. I don’t want my kids expectations to be unreasonably set by what I have done. So yea, I think being a positive example of what it means to be a working parent is important for the long term but I suspect the importance of this will be minimized in the comments.
A couple things I think will help at least a little bit: 1. Occasionally talk about the "old days" when you worked so much that you don't have to works as much now. Talk 2. Work hard at other things you do. For example, if you have a hobby, show your kind how hard you are working to master it. If you work out, show your kid how committed you are to fitness. There are other ways to demonstrate hard work.
Yes!!! Kids need to see their parents model productive behavior.
Over COVID my job moved to full time remote. Then I had a baby (my third) in 2021 and my employer had upped the maternity leave so I enjoyed 4 months home with my kids. Sometime in 2022 my oldest was SHOCKED to learn that I was in fact still employed and had a job since only my husband would physically leave the house for work. All this to say, what your kids experience is what you share with them or what impacts them. My work aligned to daycare and school, so my kids weren’t sacrificing any time with me because of work. You do you. I think the best parenting is to show your kids how to find joy in living a productive and fulfilling life. I now talk more about the things that excited/challenged me at work (in kid friendly terms and detail). Good luck finding your balance!
Lots of hardworking, rich people have lazy @ss kids. So I don't see why the opposite won't work too
LOL not being an absentee father never screwed anyone up!
Being present with your child physically and emotionally will be the greatest gift you could ever give them. It's also an opportunity to set an example and teach your child how they can live a similar life, which builds generational wealth and financial independence. If you choose this approach, your kid will be the luckiest one in the area.
I would argue, yes. If your kid doesn’t see you do some time of work, it could mess them up. If you want to teach him the type of work ethic it takes to retire at 39, he’s gonna need to see it.
Tell him you’re a consultant.
Make sure to have an open conversation with them when you get older. I can see how it can go wrong.
Think about how people who are far, far wealthier go about their lives. Tiger Woods hasn't needed a paycheck in the last 20 years, yet his kids see the work ethic he puts into succeeding. Shaq doesn't need a job, yet he has at least 2 jobs, papa johns and the TV show. Look at the business world. Elon Musk, Tim Cook, Warren Buffett, these are people who haven't needed a paycheck in a long time, yet they continue to work. Now, none of these people are rocking a 9-to-5 but to be honest many of them probably work far more hours. But it is on their own terms. So if your question is would it screw up your kids perspective on life if dad sits at home on the couch all day? Yes I think it would. You should model for him what life can be, and in fact if you find something of interest and start a business you might can give him a head start on a path to FI without just giving him money.
Nah, and that’s far from the biggest worry. I was raised by two FIRE parents that both retired before I was in first grade and have no problems working
“I want to go make a name for myself.” Your kid doesn’t need to see you working to desire to work.
I think of RE as trading paid work for unpaid work. Don’t just engage in leisurely pursuits. Find something that’s unpaid that makes a difference in the world and focus on doing that too. Your child will get all the inspiration he needs.
That you’re already thinking about the potential impact on your child is a good sign. Structure is important for kids, and if they’re still getting that then it should be fine. Also it would be great if they’re still exposed to how other families live. Good luck!
My single mom had two jobs period. Fast forward to today, I can’t take any advice from her because she never “lived it” and if she tries to slam the hammer down, I remind her she has no dog in the fight. Not to say this could happen with you, as long as you support and encourage your child.
Volunteer! Teachers and friends would tell me how proudly my kids talk about what I do to volunteer at their school or with my hobbies.
He’ll understand later when it matters.
I don't know of any adults who look back at their stay at home parent and feel they did nothing all day. Most are very grateful for it.
Sounds like a good problem to have
You might. He will grow up with the idea of what work is based on his view of his parents jobs. I did. I did not know what my Dad did specifically until later, but I knew he got up every day, got dressed, and went to work. Every day. And that is how I am to this day (I am 52). My son emulates me (and his mom) in the same way. There is literally nothing you can do about it. Pain and discomfort can be a positive in our lives. Too much comfort can be a negative. I cannot imagine a life without work, to be honest. My advice to you would be to explain in very great detail how you arrived at your station in life. Make sure he understands that it is very rare and depends on an alignment of good habits and good market performance, but that there is a pathway.
He won’t care until he’s a teenager, and by then you can effectively explain why he can’t recall you ever going to work
That happened to me when my son was 4. I bought a few commercial properties and rent them out to young entrepreneurs (fitness studios, restaurants and bakeries). I also bake at home and deliver to neighbors so he sees me “working” plus i take him on weekends to help me clean up properties.. i think he values most that we are around when he needs us. We are the house where all kids hang out after school as their parents still work.. its what you make out of it.
Your kids definitely need to understand that they need to work, and that it might not be very rewarding starting out. Obviously this isnt a reason not to FIRE, but everyone saying love and affection is the only thing thats matters is delusional. Imagine never seeing your parents work and then you have to give up your weekends working a menial retail job and you can barely afford rent. Or even starting at $50k doing some unrewarding office job. They’re going to be in for a shock if you dont set expectations early. They need to understand this type of thing is typical and surmountable. If I were you I would do the following: - communicate you are retired and how you got there. Contrast that with a more normal experience and tell them what you did differently - expect them to work a part time job in high school and perhaps summer in college - coach them in their career start. Offer your opinion on major, jobs, etc The point is not to control - it's to inform and help but ultimately they need to comply with the guidance or not. If they don't take your advice, and they arent retired at 39, then they will know why and what they can do differently. The point is simply to make them aware of what it takes in order to empower them and reduce any feeling of entitlement or shock.
Are you retiring to be lazy or selfish with your time, or will you be contributing to worth while things? The fact that you were prudent, worked hard enough and saved, is already setting a good example.
My mom never worked when I was a kid, and my dad was never home because he was always working. I never particularly cared about either situation because I was hardly ever home.
This is my issue now I'm staying on until my kids are 18 gotta show them you gotta work for everything you got
Speaking as a former child whose parent retired when I was born, I wouldn’t say so at all and that the pros far outweigh the cons.
as long as you teach independence then I don’t see a cause for concern? I know someone who’s parent didn’t work and instead of teaching independence they did EVERYTHING for them so now hes nearly 25 and still at home with no job. he’s never been challenged in his life so any time there’s a tiny obstacle he gives up
U don't need a job to show your kid how to work hard. It may even be better because you can find a hobby or side hustle you enjoy and work hard at it and that will still be a model for them. Also the time you get to spend with your kid is going to be so much more valuable than them seeing you work some normie mentally draining 9-5 shit. Just go coach their baseball team and and be the best damn person you can be.
This is a great question.
I know someone who's unskilled and never had a career. He inherited a fully paid off house and earns low six figures in interest a year. There's no motivation to work hard because hes comfortable and entry level jobs pay less than what he's already getting. For the past 5 years hes been spending time and money on video games and OnlyFans. He barely leaves the house at all. I get the sense he's lonely and has some mental health issues.
I think that for young kids I’ll repeat what others have said - no greater gift than being present. Older kids, it gets more nebulous, and I’ll just share my anecdote: My dad worked long hours throughout my childhood. He would often not be home until after dinner and because he owned his business, so even “non work” hours meant doing things like admin work, garbage, shoveling snow, etc. What it meant for me was that my dad missed a lot of things early on in my childhood. He made a concerted effort to NOT miss things as time went on. I also learned the level of responsibility required for running your own business as I was constantly tagging along on weekends to help out. So it was a double edged sword, spending time with my dad but also sometimes feeling his stress. Later on in my dad’s career, he became more successful and was able to back his hours way off. Before retirement, he was doing just 3 day weeks. This had a rather disproportionate effect on my late teen/college aged younger siblings, who were living at home from then until their mid 20’s. For about a decade they became used to a family dynamic where most members were not working for 4 of the 7 days per week. IMO, it really messed with their perception of what a typical workweek might look like for the average worker, and they would seek out ways to reduce their working hours to reflect my dad’s schedule, to the detriment of their own career/ ability to earn. One brother just isn’t working anymore. He’s a stay at home dad. He’s turned down a few opportunities to go back to work because his hours/productivity would be tracked. He left his old job because his productivity started to be tracked. My other brother did not turn his career around until he approached 30 years old. He spent the entirety of his 20s working odd jobs in construction and landscaping, not staying for more than 18 months at any one position. His main gripes were always the hours and the rigor. He now has 1 kid and another on the way and has finally landed at a job with benefits and upward mobility and is really grinding away after thinking for so many years he would work a 3 day a week gig.
I retired when my oldest was born. I was your age. Don’t regret it one bit. The time I had with my kids when they were young is the best use of time. We took at least one long (more than a month) trip every year. When they got older I started a business. (I’m not great at being retired.) so they saw that part, too.
For a long time, kids had stay at home moms who didn't have a professional job outside the house and no one said that that was bad. it was rather said that it was important and needed and when women tried to work out of the house they were criticized for doing so because they were leaving their child " alone". So I don't think it'll hurt your kid if you stay at home and take care of them.
You must be productive enough to FIRE so young. Do your best to be creative and busy with your hobbies and nourish that curiosity and desire to learn in your kid. You should think that you’ll have another job but this one is on your terms with higher consequences for failure
My father retired right after I was born. Well, my mom died, he quit his job, got some land from his grandparents and put a house on it. We lived in a rural area and we didn't have a lot of money, but he was always there.. I wouldn't go back and change anything if I could.
you can always pretend you are working from home and sound busy part of the time!
For reference, I'm a lurker here. Not exactly "retire early" as I'm 60 now and retiring at the end of the month. Just commenting on this because I personally know people who have been in this type of situation. The only people I know that have this issue are the guys I know that are my age (60) or older and have young kids. I personally know 3 gentlemen my age who all have kids between the ages of 6-10. These kids all have fantastic relationships with their fathers in large part because they spend so much time with them. I would have loved to have more time to spend with the kids during my working years. If you plan to FIRE in the next year, your kid will have the opportunity to learn exactly how you accomplished this. I think this is a great opportunity to get you kid started down this path. EDIT: Forgot to say that I love the entire FIRE idea. Some great information here and in the other FIRE subs. Wish I would have learned this stuff 20 years ago.
I explained to my daughter that I make my money from hard work that I’ve done in the past and from ideas that I had back then and continue to have now. She understands that this allows me to spend most of my time with her. My wife and I have taught her the power of saving and allowing your money to work for you. These are highly valuable lessons that my wife and I learned from our parents along with the entrepreneurial spirit that we impart daily.
Yeah honestly. From my experience witnessing a bunch of lazy trust fund kids who choose not to work vs trust fund kids who do choose to get a job, their kids are much better off.
If you do fun things with your kid and include him in your errands and make them fun thats what he will remember. My dad was a nurse so he had a bunch of random days off that he would take me on errands and fun things like hiking and swimming.
I retired at 40 and kid now in college. Very disciplined and high-achieving and I believe me being at home played a role as I was able to identify opportunities and ensure he was challenged and happy. I did not just sit around all day. I could see that being a problem.
To be perfectly honest, you will teach your child how to expect everything to be given to him or her. Children are not dumb. By the time they start school they already know that mom or dad works. If you already have a successful secure life keep it going. Not only will you teach them the value of a good work ethic you will also continue building for their future. If you don't set the example who do you think will?
Kids see their lives, and many think everything is free to them anyway. I managed to raise two that became millionaires, but we are struggling to motivate the grandkids. They see our hard work as a negative. They do not want work to be the center piece of their lives, and they may be right. They are good people and will have a great life. I was wishing g for a Dianisty. Your kids will probably be better off with you home. BUT just maybe you could buy a trailer and move to Appalachia..😇
Yeah, it probably will. I don't know what to tell you to do to attempt to demonstrate a suitable role model to counter this. Kids learn more from our (parents) actions than from our words. Your kids can't watch you stealing stuff from stores when they go shopping with you . . . and then you spend years telling them it's wrong . . . your actions showed them it acceptable - and that's what they'll remember. Being there ALL the time may seem like it's great for raising kids - but really, is it? There is an awful lot of very important learning and adjusting that kids learn when their parent isn't there every second - independence, individual decision making, risk taking, friendship/social development, developing certain levels of bravery and self confidence. Trying to explain to your kids that hard work and a great work ethic sounds good - but if they never actually see it, what does it mean to them? Then there is the confusion as to understand finance and money and earning and rewards. I can understand what negative impacts this can have on your children maturing and becoming adults. I don't know what the right answer is, but I can totally comprehend why you are concerned.
My parents were very successful and retired early (i.e. in their 40's). It didn't screw me or my sister up. If anything, they had more time to help us with homework, etc. The one thing I *absolutely hated* was that they were always around, so I couldn't easily get into trouble at my house when I was in older. It was borderline impossible to smoke, drink, or fool around with girls when I was in high school. But in hindsight, that's probably not a bad thing, lol.
I think people screw up their kids when they leave them a fortune, but you will still be there and can teach him work ethic not related to a job.
I mean not necessarily as long as you are handling things financially Just explain the situation and how you got there, as age appropriate
Do you think it is that much different from a kid watching a parent who works from home?
Yup. I knew it was time to go back to work after 5 years home with the kids when my young son said he wanted to be a "housewife" when he grew up. Yeah, no.
My father was always working and I feel nothing good came of that. I’ve got crazy work drive but in the sense of it being blended with frugality so that I can retire as soon as possible and live a very meager life. If he were truly there instead of at work i genuinely believe our lives would’ve been better even if it required less material comforts to be met.
I will work until normal retirement age to demonstrate good habits and work ethic to may children. I was able to FatFIRE within a year of my first child’s birth and before my second child’s birth, but I work and find purpose in life to be a good example for my children. All the happiest independently wealthy people I know have continued to work full or mostly full time. The nature of the job may change, but they still find purpose and achieve things. I am sure you can find a way to make the world a better place and set a good example for your kids along the way.
I went to school with some independently wealthy kids. The parents that I admired were those who used their financial freedom to enable them to be committed and engaged in some calling or vocation, whether paid or not. This set an inspiring example for their kids and others. For example, a lawyer working for the poor, could afford to accept a tiny salary. A teacher. Someone who started a free medical clinic, another a shelter for war refugees. A college professor who worked for $1 a year. A rich guy who loved to fish, and busted his butt working for coastal habitat preservation so there would be a healthy supply of fish. An artist; an opera singer. All these interesting occupations that you can only do if you don’t need money—-that to me is the best part of FIRE, and it’s consistent with being a good parent.
I'm reading a book called "how to be an adult" - its fantastic. Highly recommend. I think focus on teaching your kids independence, findings their passions, doing something that is hard (and that doesnt have to be job related!), and being willing to chip in. These are values that will matter in the work place
I don’t remember my parents working much. I loved having them at home and I still spend a lot of time with them because it’s always been the norm. If anything, it made me want to work harder so that I could also eventually stop working (while still being able to afford a nice life). My parents had lots of money conversations with us and we were aware of how hard they worked earlier in life to afford our lifestyle.
I have a 20 year old and a 15 year old and my husband and I have not worked in many years (about 8-9) due to him inheriting a great deal of money. It's been tough not going to lie. There are good and bad from lots of different angles you never think about. Unfortunately we ended staying in state/town that we are not completely in love with (family obligations and then not wanting to uproot kids). Thankfully my son is in tech school and my daughter is motivated to work even at 15. Many times I have wondered if things would be better or if we would be happier if we had jobs. Maybe part time jobs? Staying at home with your kid all the time (and teenagers too!) is not all it's cracked up to be. My advice is part time or casual work is the perfect compromise.
I don’t think so. Just remember there is a difference between not working and being lazy. If you are doing productive things with your time, your child will remember you for being a productive individual who didn’t waste their time.
My dad retired when I was 7 and it was awesome. If anything it showed me how working hard, being smart with savings, and not spending on dumb stuff can really pay off. Now I’m in my mid-30s and am in a very healthy financial situation largely because of the things I learned from my parents. He never sat idle in retirement. He volunteered a lot of his time and had a few side hustle passion projects. Plus we got to spend genuinely good time together that wouldn’t have happened if he hadn’t retired.
If you actually manage the household well you and spend time with your child you won’t actually have a life of leisure. Also if you actually spend your time teaching him, talking to him, trying to understand the world from his point of view you will be a hero.
My wife hit $3M at age 32. I didn't know it since we kept separate finances and I'm a trusting soul and I always expected to be the provider and I guess she didn't want me to slack on her money (she earned her money because her father gave her a couple of thousand at age 4 and taught her to invest ... she had been doing that for 28 years). I was earning good money and we had decided that it would make sense for her to stay at home which would take some stress off of me. So, we had 3 daughters who only knew a stay at home mom. They all grew up to be ambitious and hard working. We also started them off saving and investing their own accounts. My 27 year old passed a half million via buying NVidia and Tesla early. The 21 year old is poorest at $200K simply because they had less money to put into the above stocks. I started doing startups, my wife kept investing and then inherited from her father, a machinist, who amassed $25M by investing. At this point, we're both healthy. I had startup successes that paid for a multi-million dollar house and put the kids through school with several million left over. ... Then one of my angel investments went big. I sold off about 30% and so we're both now about even at $14M each. I'm not even retired because I run a foundation and three different startups pay me to do strategic advice for about 8 hours total a week. I made it clear that I will randomly take vacations, even last minute w/o asking and will never cancel my plans for any emergencies. I call it the "wise grampa" role and my job is to make sure there will be no emergencies. I look at it as instead of keeping my "hands in tech" I keep my "fingernails in tech". My main "issues" are tax strategies and I'm probably going to buy some apartment buildings managed by pros to provide generational passive income to kids and future generations.
No, just make you teach them about responsibility, values, and self-worth and put them in the best position possible to also make them selves successful in life.
if your kid is raised by a daycare center, you’ll end up with some shit
This is about balancing being more physically and emotionally present vs the risk that the kid doesn't develop grit or doesn't understand all the aspects of working. I would almost always come out in favor of not working and being more present... I think the aspects of working can be learnt through many other means; watching close relatives or friends work, regular conversations etc. And as other have noted there are different approaches to "not working": you can play video games, sleep in etc, or you can volunteer, do lots of household work etc
This is a very interesting question. Parents are role models, that’s unavoidable, so unless you’ve achieved generational wealth then I’d say it will have some impact and consequences. How you navigate that will be interesting. My 3 daughters, all doing very well, struggle with what they see as the inequities of today’s economy versus what my wife and I faced 35 or 40 years ago. They perceive this as being “unfair”. They did however grow up seeing my work ethic and the sacrifices I made. My wife became a SAHM with the birth of our second daughter, something my daughters see as almost unimaginable today. I can only imagine what my children would think today if both my wife and I lived lives of so called leisure, when they were young. They’re envious enough of our lives in retirement and I didn’t retire until almost age 65 after a 44 year career. Again, great question.
I've thought about this too, but I think ultimately it could serve as motivation for your kid. My mother told me when I was starting kindergarten that there was no way she could pay for my college. She said I had to get straight A's my entire time in school so I could go to college and get a good job. That's exactly what I did. Just maybe make sure your kid knows that you put in work to get where you are and he can do it too
Just from my experience, absolutely not. My mom retired when I was four years old. My dad continued to work. My mom did pretty much everything with me and we're very close. I'm close to my dad too, but in a different way because he was less physically present. You might run into issues if they see you doing nothing but "living a life of leisure" though. Again just my experience, but my mom spent her time contributing to the community by volunteering at schools (general parent stuff, tutoring challenged kids, learning braille to tutor a blind student, helping kids apply to college, etc), at church, driving other kids around, playing piano at nursing homes, being on the board of a couple local organizations, etc. She didn't have a job but she certainly modeled the behavior of a person with a strong work ethic who takes on and fulfills responsibilities. And she did this in addition to doing a bunch of fun stuff, having many hobbies and friends. Crazy how much time and energy not having a job frees up!
Potentially maybe to be honest. Gen Z as an example is the least motivated generation in recorded history. I know I know this is directly related to the housing crisis, bad wages and an overall system that benefits wealth over work however that’s not going to change it’s only going to get worse.
I don’t think the working piece really matters. I learned hard work from my mom, she stopped working around the time I was in middle school. She didn’t suddenly stop being a hard worker it just showed up in different ways. That being said as your kid grows up it’s important that you start giving them ways to feel independent and have some alone time. The only thing I disliked when my mom stopped working is that she was always there. When I was a teen I was really jealous of the kids who got to have a couple hours alone between when school ended and when their parents finished work. Even younger than that, because you have a lot of free time it’s important that you don’t trend towards making them your work. Some of the worst kids I’ve seen are the ones where the parents are always present and solving all of their kids problems. You need to be willing to still let them learn on their own a little bit.
Maybe just be purposefully busy, volunteering or whatever.
How you imprint on your child, and how often, will have much more of an effect than whether you work or not.
This may be an unpopular opinion but: My mom was a badass business woman who decided to stay home when I was born. I obviously don’t know anything else so I can’t attest to exactly what effect it had on me. But now that I am a young woman in the workforce, I wish I had seen her in her prime as a business woman. I feel like I missed out on seeing her in a huge part of her life, and she had so many gifts and abilities and I never saw her go after a goal in the same way. She is of course a role model to me regardless but I wish I had more memories and examples to pull from about how she dealt with work.
This could be true as you look at it now but do you have any kids? Kids change things in a way that's hard to describe. I was all work work work before my first and now I look back and look at it all as a game. It was a fun game I enjoyed but I don't know if I can play at the same level with the same hours anymore.
I retired at 36. I spend 40 hours a week doing hard shit. I lift weights 10 sessions a week, I bike to those sessions, I sauna 5 days a week, I ruck 10 miles a day with a 50lb pack and I’m planting an orchard. Probably fuck up your kid if you do the dishes, laundry, vacuum, then play video games all day, but if you do that you probably won’t live long anyway so I’m sure he’ll forget all about it. If I was gonna spend the rest of my life ‘doing nothing but managing the household’, I’d just go back to work. If you really wanna take it easy, still do the best you can to live as long as possible and pour everything you have into being the best dad you could ever be and you’ll do the exact opposite of fucking your kid up.
I’m 45 year old dad with a 13 and 10 year old daughters. I don’t work. Wife works. I made wise investments young and was able to not have to work. I felt really guilty and almost ashamed for not working. A friend of mine who is a doctor told me, you are giving your girls something far more valuable then money. He said you’re providing them your presence and time, which is priceless. It changed my the way I looked at it. I’m always available for my kids and am present. Same doctor friend said to: “I had money and provided my kids a nice life, but I was hardly there to enjoy it with them”.
The volunteering idea is great… also as they get older, maybe start a business out of doing something they love. One family I knew had a “Go Kart” sales, service and consulting business. Started out as the kids hobby but ended up paying for their college and one ended up opening his own auto repair shop as an adult. Another family I knew started a band and toured around performing. The daughter later became a pretty well known country western singer and even acted in a Tom hanks movie. Help your kids find their passion and show them they can make it something that produces income but doesn’t seem like work.
Get a hobby you have passion in and include them, and it could be a side gig. But the kid needs to always come first.
Maybe going against the grain but yeah I do think it will negatively impact him. I’d try to find a non-profit or serve on a board of some kind so that you’re working toward something. Probably better for you as well.
Who can even say what will mess a kid up? Having a caring parent present during their most formative years probably won't.
I grew up with both parents not exactly *having* to work. (Some inherited money, an extreme amount of frugality, and some just plain luck, as well as having children a little later in life.) But one of my parents was a farmer and boatbuilder, the other was an artist and later taught elementary school before going back to the arts. They had friends, family, hobbies etc. I did end up with the idea that I didn't want to be working as a corporate drone for most of my adult life... ... ...but is that a bad thing? I had parents who cared about spending time with me and my sister, and who also spent time on things that they cared about. I went on to get a master's degree in engineering and work in several high-profile jobs before going on my own in my 30s. And I still have a great relationship with my parents. Am currently in my 40s and thinking about how I'm going to take care of them as they get older and roles start to change. Wouldn't trade my life for anything. So ... I do think that if they only see you sitting on your ass watching TV or scrolling social media that would be bad for them. But wouldn't that also be bad for *you*? It's not really about them seeing you work for someone else; it's about them seeing that you're still active and engaged with the world and working towards personal goals, while prioritizing friends and family. Those are the things that really matter once financial survival isn't your sole and immediate priority.
No. You can demonstrate a way of living not taught in our society that can benefit him immensely.
Unless you're planning to sit on your ass smoking weed and playing Grand Theft Auto for 12 hours a day, this doesn't seem like something to worry to much about.
I think you need to spend some time actively participating with the outer world in some capacity. No.matter what you tell them, kids learn by actions, what you do. They need to see models of engagement and responsibility with the world beyond the household. Otherwise they will think the world revolves around them.
I’m reading a few books on the issue at present one being Raised Healthy, Wealthy & Wise by Edwards-Pitt and The Myth of Silver Spoon by Keffeler which are insightful. By the time my kid is in kindergarten, I’ll have 8+ figure NW and largely work from home putting together deal flow. I built my business around this paradigm and wouldn’t have it any other way though I want my sons to have strong work ethic and chase excellence in the areas of their choice.
Unpopular opinion: it is good to see your father working. Not hating himself. Not so consumed by work that you aren’t emotionally present. Not addicted to work. But it is good to see a father work. Your average person is not ready to retire at 40, and frankly, there are many signals that say the youngest generation may not be able to retire at all. Could lead to a strong cognitive dissonance not seeing you work and earn what you have, but trying to get their himself. Again. Just opinion.
Isn’t this why this is so great! Ethical and moral …yes you need to make your own way and this is how I can help
Oddly enough, your worry is statistically correct. Surely you have hobbies and goals that are similar to a career? Art, writing, woodworking, etc..
I’m going to go against the popular belief being expressed and say that your work ethic, despite obviously being great considering your early retirement, will not translate well to your children if they only see you lounging around. My parents both were very wise with their finances and worked relatively easy and remote jobs my whole life and I severely struggle with motivation and discipline. I do well for myself and I learned great things from them but I never saw them “try” per se. It could just be a me thing but I don’t have a reference point on what hard work looks like.
Not if you teach him properly.
Help him with his homework and teach him the life choices you made so he can repeat your steps.
No, as long as your kid sees you doing stuff with him it won’t matter. Maybe tinker on the computer from time to time and say it’s work.
I still resent the fuck out of my mom for not getting a damn job. She still doesn’t work. We struggled hard on my dad’s tiny salary. A family of 4 has a hard time eating on 1 salary. Once I started school, she should have tried to work to make our lives better. Watching soap operas all day didn’t help us as a family. I wore hand-me-downs and shared a bedroom with my sister. It was rough. She could have tried to work to help us survive. Fuck her. But if you are comfortable, then it probably dorsn’t matter.
I worked with the first two kids, by the time number 3 came it just made financial sense for one of us to stay home. Here’s the kicker- you do more work as a SAH parent than many jobs. It’s a 24 hour job with breaks when your partner is home. Mine traveled most weeks, so it was all me. My kids have never thought less of me- matter of fact they loved that I was involved with their school stuff, drove them and all their friends to & from school., was room Mom, volunteered at school frequently, drove all over for all their activities, never missed a game or match! Plus every other aspect of their lives- I was all in! They always saw me working, so I was never treated “less than” my working spouse. YOU ARE EMPLOYED, don’t let anyone make you feel bad about taking time to raise your children. My 4 employers are now all over 18 and are doing amazing!
You will teach them. Being honest and present means you get to have more time to influence and teach them to achieve the same goal. Don’t let them think they get your money even if you plan too. Teach them the same motivation and mindset.
Yep. If you just “manage the household” and otherwise do nothing productive, the kids model this and expect it out of life. But if you work with commitment on something, even if it’s just your passion and makes no money, they will observe that too. The act of generating income is not visible but the act of working toward some goal, serving your community, improving and growing, that is visible.
I handled this by teaching my daughter about business and how I made decisions that afforded us this life we have. It’s extra effort but kiddos will absorb what you expose them to.
Are you asking if it’s going to screw up your child to have his parents present in his life and not constantly stressed or busy with work? No. No it will not.
I think it will heavily depend on how you spend your time around your kids. I know a guy that built a huge business that you have probably heard of. He sold and cleared his billion or whatever he made. You ask his kids what he does for work and they say "I don't know. He plays video games all day" those kids likely have a skewed understanding of what it takes to be successful. I finished high school in one of the top 3 wealthiest zip codes in my state. As I hung out with groups from my city through my 20s I often contemplated on why both the guys and girls my age thought it was so simple to just have some good idea for a business, consult other businesses, and "never work a day in my life" (if I had a dollar for every time I heard that euphemism I too would never have to work a day in my life). The only conclusion I can come to is all of these peoples parents built their multi-million dollar companies while they were kids, or maybe not even born yet. So they didn't see or don't remember what kind of sacrifices their parents had to make in order to be in a position to buy their 10k+ square foot McMansion and $300k boats and so now they have a skewed understanding of what it takes to be successful. So, like I say, I think it just heavily depends on how you spend your time and what you teach your kids. If you're retired and teach them how to work hard and be financially responsible then they'll be just fine. But if they just believe that your success just magically happened and you didn't have to do anything to get it, they too might think they can "never work a day in their life".
He may want to do like you, but that could be good?
Work from home?
It is entirely possible that if you don’t show a good work ethic to your children that they will not develop one. Is that what you want to see in your kids having said that you’ve worked hard for this so what are you gonna do?
Maybe. My daughter suggested I get a proper job like a hairdresser instead of playing on my phone. I’m also a volunteer fire fighter which doesn’t count because I volunteer supposedly…. As they get older and get their first minimum wage job they’ll realise how it was pretty epic that dad did school drop off, pick up, football, and everything else and every now and again had to go play on his phone.
The word you’re looking for is “stay at home dad” and there’s nothing wrong with that. I’d say you may be in for a rude awakening if you think managing a household is leisurely