Y'all need to stop acting like incest is the core identity of the game. It's not. It has maybe like a pinch of incest and you dorks blow it up and worship it as if the game isn't actually a hilarious gallows-humor story about toxic codependency.
I'm torn.
Incestuous tones _are_ present in Andrew and Ashley's relationship. I don't think it's fair to call it a pinch—their relationship (and childhood) fits the bill for being an example in a psychology textbook for the foundation of an incestuous relationship through trauma and mental illness. You're right that it's more subtle, however, and it's certainly not the pornified form that exists in the community around the game. It's the messy, weird kind, where Andrew's reaction to the dream becomes even funnier. See, were it the porn kind, his reaction is just him being extremely flustered, it's not a big deal. But if you play it straight as the messy kind, Ashley's question becomes "Andrew, you have killed multiple people, engaged in cannibalism, and sold other people's souls. Is this really the line in the sand for you? Are you stupid?" Adding in what we know about their relationship (eg. Andrew talking about touching Ashley's ass, Ashley joking about her tits to Andrew, Andrew touching Ashley's ass, Renee assuming they're fucking, Renee trying to make them sleep separately, Andrew making Julia put her hair up like Ashley) and it becomes even funnier. It's similar to how Dr. Evil's quirks make him a funny villain and thus fitting in a comedy.
But joking about sex in media is an easy way to end up with a horny fanbase, and a horny fanbase makes porn.
Yeah I made a post pointing that out and it was removed by the mods. This subreddit has become mostly just incest porn unfortunately. And there isn’t really any alternative subreddit thats decently popular. https://www.reddit.com/r/CoffinofAndyandLeyley/s/BtR5lPp7jy
Has anyone else had this experience?
While you can argue between Renee and Ashley, you can't deny Andrew's the bestest thing. That's one sure way to find yourself in that situation. Rightfully so...
Julia is a one time character. She won’t end up with Andrew again. She won’t even come back in the future episode, aside from in flashbacks.
Also Julia BROKE UP with Andrew after months of mistreatment by BOTH of the Graves (severe neglect from Andrew and severe harassment from Ashley). Her being with Andrew isn’t “”Healthy”” for either of them.
Not only it's incest,it's also SUPER disgusting because of the maturity difference they had (they knew eachother when Andrew was a child and Renee an adult)
Anything bad about Ashley
Criticising her is the easiest way to get downvotes
Tho
You can't blame em since atleast 50% of people have Ashley as their favourite character
Tho 40% make up simps and 8% drones
THANK YOU
istg, in these guy's eyes, Ashley is 100% innocent and its all Andrew's or Renee's fault. I'm not saying Ashley isnt a victim but ffs shes done terrible shit herself
it kinda reminds me of the Gravity Falls fandom where any criticism of the character Mabel is met with a bunch of mental gymnastics about how she's 100% perfect and never in the wrong.
True. Although(at least from what we know so far) that is so much the case, that Andrew doesn't deserve her. Her path to a better life started by cutting ties w/ Andrew(&Ashley), so it would only benefit her if she manages to not cross paths with the Graves again(which I think is unlikely).
https://preview.redd.it/mn7i2eqt8m5d1.jpeg?width=565&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=0f53a04f1c6106e398816f20a534646c16df714a
I would use a normal meme, but since this is TCOAAL...
https://preview.redd.it/qvijy92wsn5d1.jpeg?width=739&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=5e550375463abe23a1b2d8df77d1d01d1050c379
Unfortunately, you are correct on that.
https://preview.redd.it/jb5ctf0bkl5d1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=fff0815b213209d33113f3e1223c8fd3c6cab574
Agreed. I don’t think they realize it would probably come out looking like this…
I don't think you realize chances of that are borderline impossible. The first generation of incest is just more vulnerable to diseases, it would take successive generations to get a retard.
Exactly. It makes sense in the context of the story, but I don’t see it and think “I really want these two siblings to fuck” or anything. (I still think Ashley is hot af tho, which probably isn’t much better)
SAY IT LOUDER FOR PEOPLE IN THE BACK 🔥🔥🔥
Tbh it's people glorifying incest that is a huge turn off for me...it's no wonder why every other fan base hates us
who gives a shit about our image when the people hating will still hate even if incest is gone. I say double down and go full freud and hapsburg the subreddit
**True.** (Cringe 'self-defense' mode, activate:) I even think that might include myself(although I'm here since mid-2023, before the explosion of popularity and many fanartists joined the community), even though I don't consider myself a gooner, I've(in possibly the majority of cases) got little to no problem with the 'down bad' side. On another note: interesting flair. On yet another note: **I gotta say I don't support any of the stuff the Graves(both the parents and the siblings) do IRL.** I mostly 'fake-support'(particularly Ashley) in jest(especially in my usage of the 'wincest' word). I consider this main sub to be a broad-tent sub: simuntaneously the Discussion side, general fanart side, NSFW side and shitposting side, all within the same subreddit(although more niche subs for those sides do exist aswell), so it can get tough at times. Something that I don't know if it is pertinent or not to bring up: I've been SA'd before, back when I had recently turned 18(I'm in my mid 20s), so that + my first contact with porn being by accident on cable tv(very late at night), when I was 4(and was dealing with cancer & related treatments IRL), may have forever impacted my views on such subjects in questionable always, inturn making me particularly alright with 'joking'(or making bad attempts at it) around these subjects. What's your opinion overall, though? Feel free to answer honestly.
Honestly, I really hate Ashley. She’s a horrible person. I don’t understand how she can be your favorite character.. (no hate) but she’s awful.
There was an old post asking, “Do you think Ashley is a bad person?” Nobody saw my comment though since I answered pretty late. Anyways, here’s my comment from 48 days ago,
I don’t think she’s a good person because she manipulated her own brother (Andrew), and fell in love with him. Ashley even had him kill 4 different people for her. (I think it’s 4 idk) She sent 157 voicemails or smt to Julia aka Andrew’s girlfriend and called her the worst things possible. She decided to kill her parents AND have her and her own brother eat them afterwards. She ALSO forced Andrew to swallow a man’s limb. That’s just disgusting. Also, she manipulated her brother into locking a girl with asthma in a dusty old warehouse locked inside a box, and killed her. She is a very disgusting person and I hate her. I feel really bad for Andrew because he had to deal with her sh!t and he got tricked by his sister. Ashley actually made her brother choose between her and an innocent girl. That’s vile. I hate Ashley Graves.
Fun fact: While Ashley is Tar Soul, Andrew is Grime Soul.
Andrew is a lot like his mom. They both want to seem normal. They’re obsessed with it. Similarly, there’s only one person they really care about. For the mom, that’s the dad. For Andrew, that’s Ashley. That’s textbook sociopath behavior, actually. Sociopaths, unlike psychopaths, are capable of remorse and empathy and can form emotional attachments; it just takes a lot of time and effort. So they generally only form a few small connections, almost always only with their family. Even when you compare their casual behavior and how they talk, Andrew is far closer to the mom personality-wise than Ashley is. They have the same eye color for a reason.
Let’s look at everything that would happen if Ashley didn’t exist. Andrew would still have been quarantined and left alone. To escape, he’d still have to eat the cultist. Either the security guard with the gun would have taken him out, or Andrew would have found some other way of killing the guy. He’d still have killed the 302 lady because he’d never want to leave loose ends. In fact, I’m positive that he was planning to kill her from the start and only waited until Ashley left so he could make an excuse for why he killed her to seem "normal.” If Andrew had used the demon’s help, he’d have gotten the prophecy charm. He’d have used it to survive and kill the hitman. It’s arguable whether he’d find the cultist party or if he’d go for the parents, but if he did, things would have likely ended up the same way anyway. You see? What, exactly, is Ashley at fault for? That’s why all his moping and foisting the blame on her is bullshit. (Neither of them is at fault in the first place.) He’s just trying to pass himself off as a normal guy, refusing to accept that he’s abnormal. Ashley, at the very least, accepts her own abnormality. That’s one thing she’s got over Mom and Andrew.
So, if Andrew had done all the things he did anyway, is he really being "controlled"? Or is he just coping and trying to make it seem like it’s all Ashley’s fault, even though it’s clearly not? Never mind that; let’s look at all the information. The mom is "in charge" of the relationship, being in control of the dad, whereas Andrew is seemingly being pushed around by Ashley. But we have established that it’s Andrew who really takes after the mom. And Andrew has taken care of Ashley since they were kids. And he’s more capable than her in almost any way you can think of, to the point that she feels useless in comparison. She could never actually force him to do anything. By contrast, he could make her do whatever he wanted. Everything that he blames Ashley for is stuff that she’s simply not at fault for. And even the things that weren’t inevitable, (for example, they could have gone for some other unfortunate couple instead of their parents), Andrew could just have said, "No, we’re going to do this other thing,” and Ashley would have probably folded. It’s that simple. Controlling Andrew is beyond her.
Actually, regarding what would have happened if Ashley didn’t exist, maybe none of the plot would have happened. You know why? Because Andrew was at a university, maybe he could have gotten a dorm; thus, he would have never been caught in quarantine. Why didn’t he? Because Ashley is in the apartment. He refuses to leave her. Because he’s just as obsessed with her as she is with him, even if he’s very good at hiding it.
Again—everything that Ashley said during their argument in Episode 1 is true. Andrew chose to kill the Warden and the 302 lady. She didn’t make him do it. It was out of his own volition. And when they were kids, Andy reluctantly agreed to lock Nina and even gave tips to Leyley on how to do it. He made his choice to put the stick in when he could have done something else.
There’s a lot of subconscious touching going on: Andrew playfully talking about being a wife beater to only Ashley, changing the subject about her giving her virginity to him while looking away in embarrassment, needing no excuse to touch her ass (while blushing), and a very conscious near misses at initiating a kiss, etc., and he gets embarrassed at doing these in public in front of people.
He is lying about his conscience. Andrew has shown a few times in the game that he doesn't, or at least doesn't care, about the immorality of his actions, such as when Nina is killed. What he cares about instead are the consequences of his actions, specifically that they’ll get him separated from Ashley.
That line after Andy discovers Nina’s body was, "They're going to take you away from me!” which shows possessiveness and perhaps ownership. He doesn't say anything like “We’ll be separated!” which would probably sound more appropriate given the situation, but he didn't.
Throughout the game, Andrew, either forced or of his own volition, acquires quite the body count. He personally kills Warden Malcom, the Room 302 Lady, the hitman, and is an accomplice in killing Warden Dave, etc. As we can see during his nightmare sequence, he feels no guilt for killing any of those people and is only afraid of being caught for his actions. He had absolutely no qualms about sacrificing the innocent cultist to Lord Unknown just so only he and Ashley could survive (this happens if you take Ashley to the cultist club as Andrew and not go to the motel room where the hitman is).
While Ashley is the poster child for “manipulation” in the game, Andrew is no slouch at it either. He proves good at wasting Warden Malcom’s time and comes up with the plan to lure Dave into their trap. In Episode 2, Andrew bullshits his way into the club using the cultist’s guilt for stealing a cake, somehow picking that up in the time of an elevator ride. He’s also so good at lying to his mother that Ashley cannot keep up. It is true that Julia is merely a substitute for Ashley, and that he has no actual attraction to her or any of his previous girlfriends (if he had any).
Andrew has also been faking some night terrors as an excuse so he can sleep with Ashley. The manipulation is not solely one-sided between our sibling duo; Andrew is by far the more calculating one.
But Leyley did consider Julia and Nina friends until Nina said that she has a crush on Andy, which we all know how that went...
She still doesn’t want anyone to take her brother, and she’s someone who’s difficult for everyone, even her parents and so-called "friends," like Nina, who was happy to be around Andy but seemed put off by her and only agreed to play with her because Andy agreed to.
In Andrew’s dream of the flashback before quarantine, Julia mutters that Ashley’s difficult in general despite her supposedly being Leyley’s "friends," so the reason why both Julia and Nina put up with her in the past is because of pleasing Andrew and hopefully getting together with him as a reward.
Then there’s Andrew’s and Julia’s relationship, where we see how they first interact after in the Episode 3 preview after a a few years, but during the dream and the break-up call, Julia mentions how Andrew has always picked Ashley over and over whenever his sister wanted his company (despite him complaining about it and missing Ashley while she’s away): “—always about—you don’t—ley and Ashley, and—”
Mind you, during the break-up call, Andrew put in no effort to stop Ashley’s harassment towards his ex: "[...] I mean, I can’t do anything about that... Or I can try talking to her, but—" and he wondered why he should be accountable for her actions.
It’s confirmed that Ashley did harass Julia, but we don’t know what kind of harassment—when Andrew confronted Ashley about it, he says afterward, “So it really was you” in Episode 1—and Andrew’s dream could be what he imagined what she sent as a manifestation or projection with the death threats and 127 voicemails. To the point that Julia had to self-harm, and he just ignored it. To be honest, “Ashley” is correct—but that is Andrew’s manifestation of her and self-projection. He simply doesn’t care for his ex with “You'll never see her again. And the fact that it doesn bother you, bothers you.”
Julia broke up with Andrew because of both the harassment from Ashley and Andrew always picking his sister over his ex over and over (even before quarantining while they dated).
In the flashback with Andrew and Julia during the compartmentalize dream in Episode 2 (which was months before quarantine):
1. Andrew refused to make Ashley learn anything and be independent because they're enmeshed and he probably wants her to keep relying on him.
2. "If your sister needed something, wouldn't you go?" is ironic because in Episode 1, he always complained that they barely spend each other apart but in Episode 2, he could be away from Ashley for like 10-30 minutes and he'd miss her and rather that not be separated even in the same house, etc.
3. Saying that Ashley is shook up about Nina's death is bullshit because he knows what they did to her, he's just covering up their crimes and manipulating Julia by using sweet words and making an excuse as to why he goes to Ashley whenever they make plans.
4. Julia's "She's difficult in general..." Yeah, she only wanted to be "friends" with Leyley when they were kids because Andy asked and when they're adults she started dating Andrew until she broke up with him.
5. The only time Andrew is happy is anything relating to Ashley, he's not even happy about his relationship with Julia. He's only using her as a substitute for his incestuous feelings for his sister and it's confirmed that he makes Julia tie her hair up so she can look like Ashley... And this has happened before. (There were a few players that didn't get this and thought that Andrew was just kinky with his girlfriend).
I am confused about Julia as a character regarding the siblings. Like in the lemon muffin lore, Leyley said that none of her friends attended her birthdays; in the video, Julia was waiting for Andrew and seems like she’s relieved that Ashley calls her a friend (Andrew is lying after all and absolutely knows how much his sister hates her) but then changes the subject by asking Andrew about the rumors (in plural form) after Andrew thanks her for being her “friend” with a Freudian slip, “It means a lot to m—her.”
Afterwards, Julia is only focusing on caring about Andrew and doesn't mention anything about Ashley. But then again, she’s interacting with Andrew, it’s so obvious from how much she has a crush on him, and we don’t know how she was with Ashley in their teenage years. As an adult, she mutters, “Ashley is difficult in general…”
I don't think the rumors have anything to do with the siblings’ relationship or about Nina, since if they had, Andrew would have been freaked out.
Andrew has never taken responsibility for his actions. Warden Malcom? Ashley’s fault for messing up; he also had it coming for leering at Ashley. The lady in Room 302? Ashley wanted her dead anyway. The hitman? That was self-defense (based, actually). Eating the cultist? Ashley made the comment about the meat, and Andrew was the one that said if it’s okay to eat him, but they were also forced because of extreme circumstances (the latter part understandable, really). While Andrew would like to pretend he has no agency in the game, he does. Andrew has stood up for himself in the game to some success (Ashley does start calling him Andrew), and he would just rather not, so Ashley can take the blame for his actions.
He is extremely nonchalant about cutting himself and Leyley for the blood oath—not something you expect a normal child to do. He does not care about the organ harvesting or the fact he’s dropped out of college, and he is disturbingly calm when murdering the Warden.
The only things that can seemingly reliably get a strong response from Andrew are:
1. Insulting or threatening Ashley (the survival rate ain’t good on that one).
2. Ashley wanting sex with another person (by far the strongest reaction from him, huh).
3. Insinuation he’s into Ashley.
4. The Nina incident.
Other than those things, it is extremely hard to break his cool.
The game has shown time and time again that harming, threatening, insulting, or leering at Ashley in Andrew’s presence is a bad idea. What seems weird are the idiot cultist and the description of Warden Malcom in Andrew’s dream.
The idiotic cultist has, up to that point, shown themselves to be completely harmless and nothing but helpful. Yet when they called Ashley a bitch, which was totally justified given the context, Andrew gave him a death glare. Kind of an overreaction to an insult.
It is revealed Andrew regrets giving Warden Malcom a quick death... because he leered at Ashley? That is just odd. Warden Malcom starved them (yes, Ashley included) for months, relished having power over them, reveled in antagonizing them both, knowing they could not do anything about it, and in general was on a constant power trip. Yet somehow, him leering at Ashley pissed him off the most?
If you talk to the mom as Andrew with Ashley in the basement, she tells them that absence (regarding Andrew and Ashley) makes the heart go fonder, only for Andrew to think to himself (looking away while blushing): "The very last thing I need is to grow fonder of that nightmare of a woman.”
Andrew doesn’t like being away from Ashley for a specific amount of time because he does miss her, despite him saying that he doesn’t, which seems to be a little theme where Andrew would be fine with doing or saying something at first but then lie to himself that he was forced to do it and didn’t have a choice when he did, hence him probably shifting the blame towards Ashley.
There’s been subtle hints during Episodes 1-2 that he could be a sociopath, considering there’s an interaction where you could watch Andrew butcher the cultist while Ashley cheers, which makes Andrew telling her to be quiet, then a scene later he laughs at her—another theme could be that anytime that there’s something serious going on, Andrew laughs at the dark humor around it, which isn’t something a normal person does since this has happened several times throughout the game so far.
Because Ashley is relatable and people like what they can relate to. Obviously, most would never cannibalise/kill but her emotional dysfunction is all too real.
My main pet peeve when people play this game is when they solely blame everything on Ashley and think that her whole existence is just “manipulating” her brother while thinking that Andrew is some "innocent victim." It just goes to show that people aren't analyzing the characters and only take everything at face value.
Andy is the one that enables Leyley's ideas, and it was his choice to reluctantly agree to go along with her scheme. He's the one that gave her tips on how to lock Nina up, and the only thing that I could fault Leyley for was her use of emotional manipulation in that scene (which I find weak, in my opinion—and Andy knows that), and it was her brother's choice to put the stick in and suggest that Nina stay there until morning. It was his idea to take the blood oath in the first place because it wasn't good enough for Leyley, and he made an excuse that it was for her when, really, it was for him as a reassurance that their crimes weren't out.
Everything that Ashley said during their argument in Episode 1 is correct. She isn't gaslighting him.
Andrew did make his own choice to put the stick on the hinges; while Ashley did comment that there's a lot of meat on the cultist, Andrew is the one that insinuates cannibalism (I'm not sure if this is considered gaslighting); he made his own choice to kill the Warden to the point that he only regretted not giving him a slower death just because he ogled proactively at Ashley; he was the one that actually suggested that he shoot the other Warden back in Episode 1; he only killed the 302 Lady because Ashley would have wanted to anyway and leave no witnesses, and him shooting the hitman was self-defense.
Andrew does have agency, but he chooses not to use it, and, while he is smart, it's been proven a few times that he can use physical violence towards her if he doesn't like Ashley's idea.
From what we know so far, Leyley was neglected by her parents because they found her to be difficult. Andy has already bonded with his sister and felt sympathetic towards her when his friend visibly showed his disgust towards Leyley to the point that he asked Julia and Nina to be friends with her, and they did it just so they could be closer to Andrew despite their suppressed dislike for her.
I find it ironic that even after seeing Nina's body, Andy was more focused on the consequences of their actions and being separated from his sister.
Andrew didn’t give a shit about Julia; he refused to let Ashley learn independence and, saying that he can't make her learn anything; always picked his sister over his girlfriend; used her as an Ashley substitute while manipulating her with sweet words, making excuses as to why he always goes over to his sister over her when he knows what they did to her best friend Nina; he was only happy when his sister is mentioned; asked his ex to tie her hair like his sister again; didn’t do anything when he found out she was being harassed by Ashley during the break up call when he was probably the main reason since he always picked his sister over her and refused to do anything about it; he knew about Julia's self harming and ignored it.
I interpreted the voicemails as Andrew projecting and manifesting what he thinks Ashley said since it was confirmed that she did harassed Julia but we don't know how and he said, "So it really was you," and he thinks Ashley is the one to blame for his love life and actions, which is ironic because it's him too.
Every time you think Ashley is manipulating Andrew, she's not. Like, for example, the car ride argument, she loves joking around while Andrew takes them seriously, and she misses the days back in childhood where he wasn't as uptight about his nickname. She is actually upset with him for his behavior (getting teary-eyed, refusing to talk to him, calling their argument a lover’s spat, etc.). As much as a Tar Soul she is, Ashley genuinely believes that no one likes her, not even her own brother. Her “manipulation tactic” is just her believing her self-hatred, having a lot of insecurities, and seeing herself as useless, which is why she wants Andrew to depend on her. Almost all of Ashley’s actions and inner thoughts make much more sense when you look at them with the idea that she’s simply doing her best to make sure Andrew doesn’t leave her for others.
Nemlei (the creator) confirmed that “Ashley’s obsession here wasn't so much of a romantic desire, but to wrap Andrew around her little fingers by whatever means necessary.”
Obsession “here,” implying Nemlei is only referring to one specific scene.
“So much” of a romantic desire, meaning it wasn’t the sole motivating factor, but it was a factor.
The graves siblings really don't deserve a "happy ending" I love them both a shit-ton but why would two people who have made deals with literal demons and sacrificed a few people for power be allowed to live a "happily ever after" ending?
If anything, the game consistently implies they're gonna pay for their actions from the minute the neighbor dies to the second they get away with killing Renee.
im gonna bite the bullet, as much as i like a well done incest joke here n there i think most people miss the point of ashley and andrew's relationship entirely
More about the subreddit,but I fucking hate pink and green color posts.Love seeing the same joke for the hundreth fricking time,it wasn't even funny in the first place.
People that play this game hate far too much on the Andrew x Ashley ship cuz of the fact that their siblings when that's not why their shipped nor is it what people find attractive about them.
A lot of people genuinely don't give a shit if their siblings, they want them together cause of the dynamic they have with eachother not because "Incest is hot!1!1!1!😩" Like if they weren't even related and still kept the same/very similar dynamic people would ship them just as much.
https://preview.redd.it/2pcrcwlhj16d1.png?width=1126&format=png&auto=webp&s=ba8e35f6e74d08234086fe35bcfc8791352667aa
very based of you the thiu's are so cute together
It's way too high quality to be something I could draw it's by our-shared-coffin on Tumblr
I do draw Thiu alot tho, better half is what got me into drawing so I have only been drawing for a few months now
https://preview.redd.it/1jhlipovs76d1.jpeg?width=3072&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=67ec84adee3111dabd506ee1f723d4fc38b36472
Andrew is in charge of that relationship. Yes, Ashley is crazy and controlling. But, if Andrew really *wanted* to stop it, he could in a heartbeat. Andrew is charming but manipulative. Ashley worships the ground he stands on and Andrew has her in his back pocket.
Louder for the suckers in the back. He’s got ample means and plentiful opportunity to shut her down, but he is too ride or die for her, so he can’t understand why she’d see any need to manipulate him to stay when leaving is the last thing he’d ever want.
Yes. My biggest pet peeve is when people pull the "Aww poor Andrew, it's all his sister's fault" card. Nah, man. My boy is just as fucked as her. He could say no and take her out *whenever* he wants. But who would he control then?
My one post a while back that said because they fucked in a vision doesn't mean they'll fuck in Ch. 3, everyone of my replies got downvoted, i felt just like this meme.
While their mom certainly played the biggest part in the siblings ending up the way they did, I disagree that it was all 100% nurture. If they were born with a different personality type, they would probably not have committed murder even with the exact same shitty treatment by Renee.
Ashley and Andrew in the apartment should _not_ be fuckable. "But her fat tits!" I can hear you cry out. Consider this: how much shampoo, conditioner, and soap do you have at your home right now? How long could you go without going to the store? And let's get at it: toilet paper's probably not that available either, and I don't think bidets were en vogue in the 90s. They probably fucking stink. You may think it's fine, but this isn't some "I went for a run and now I came back lightly sweaty" kind of stink, this is months of stink that's probably impacted by malnourishment too.
Andrew is probably mentally worse than Ashley, he's just masking like it's Japanese theatre. He has/had friends, he could've been normal—he _fell_, and this awareness of his own immorality literally causes him distress.
"I want a partner like Andrew/Ashley!" No, you probably don't. I shouldn't have to explain this one. If you're mentally ill, you get a pass.
Everyone on this sub needs to read this
https://preview.redd.it/dtvwg1h0yl5d1.jpeg?width=1334&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=5d181366881e24ffcf608d59cb8b60929f36a615
The incest is weird, I like the game and how it focuses a bit on toxic codependency and more "darker" subjects , but honestly, the incest posting on this sub is mb to much
Also I'm not a fan of Ashley (edit bc i forgot to add a word)
That I like the game except most of the incest part (The" Big words don't fit in your mouth" part was the only funny part to me)
Got called a degenerate piece of shit when telling someone I knew
Andrew is a shitty person, yes. But the common take that he´s ¨Just as bad, or worse¨ Than Ashley is so stupid. He actually shows remorse for some of his actions, he took care of Ashley almost solo for years, and he's always the one trying to mediate conflict from whatever situation she puts them in.
¨But he´s only acting like that so he can live a normal life, he´s just suppressing his urges¨ Ok? Yeah, that seems fairly reasonable. I'm pretty sure that's what you are meant to do. Whereas Ashley indulges her every whim and does not care about consequences. What is worse? A Violent Racist who beats every person of a different skin color he sees, or a vanilla racist who just keeps their thoughts to themselves out of fear of ridicule? I vote the first one.
Ashly does everything Andrew does, but more of it, and worse. How is Andrew worse than Ashly?
Honestly, I've been slowly losing interest for the game due to the lack of any major updates to the game's story in the last 6+ months or so. While I appreicate Nemlei and Kit9's progress reports that happen every month, I honestly think there needs to be more done in order to maintain people's interest in the game outside of the shock factor that the siblings can engage in an incestuous relationship. I get the feeling that Nemlei is making the story up as she goes along with development, which isn't a bad thing at all, but the lack of any major updates to the game currently has me worried. Ideally I'd want Nemlei and Kit9 to release Decay and Burial in two parts and release the first parts of those arcs now to allow players to provide feedback, while also proceeding with the proposed four chapters outline that was recently announced as well. I bought the game while it was on sale, but given the fact the game is really quick to finish and is severely lacking in content in its current state, I don't feel my money was well spent at all. My hope is that I retract my previous statement once the game starts to receive more updates, but I'm not exactly feeling too confident.
I'm also getting really tired of how the fandom is constantly obsessed with the incest subplot from Burial. While I'm personally biased towards Decay as that was the route/ending that I got on my first playthrough, I do think both story routes have their own merits and I look forward to seeing how they turn out. However, with the lack of any updates to the game and story, I feel like the fandom and general audiences who are familiar with the game and its characters have latched on to *just the incest subplot* and tie that to the game's core identity through fanart and memes. I would even go so far as to argue the fandom has more tourists who haven't touched the game at all and only concern themselves with the incest stuff than those who have actually played the game. The discussion surrounding incest has grown to a point where I feel people are treating Burial as the de facto canon route and barely any discussion/theories surrounding Decay ever get discussed. It also doesn't help that Nemlei is capitalizing on the incest subplot given the promotional artwork she's posted alongside some of the progress reports, which to me only adds fuel to the fire.
Decay and Burial are already going to be in separate updates. So I'm not really sure what kind of updates you're expecting.
To be clear: Nemlei is a single person. They're doing all of the art, programming, coding, and writing for the game.
As a single dev of a visual novel that does not involve the heavier coding that a game like this does, even in the engine they're using, I'm telling you I've hardly even gotten one opening scene written in 3 months. It's not that easy.
[ I agree with the rest of your post, but I want to ask why you think you haven't gotten like 10$ worth of gameplay in just the two parts already out, and what you realistically expect from a single person. ]
I am so sick of how sexual this game has become.
It's to the point I've had several people add me on Discord because of my username ( happened to catch ashley.graves before anyone else did lol ), and then proceeded to spam me with sex GIFs and other shit.
Like, I don't know if you fuckers are actually minors. Y'all fuckers don't know I'm not a minor, I can say I'm 92 but that doesn't make it true.
You guys need to fucking relax.
The fact that there is a game with canonical sibling incest gives people who have incestuous relationships irl representation outside of porn--this is a good and necessary permutation of relationship to show in game *because* of its normalization of incest
The best ending for this game will be a neutral ending where the siblings separate. Their relationship is toxic and they should not be together, and any attempts to do so will result in their deaths
The game will have no good endings I believe all the endings will be trash and only one of the siblings can survive for each ending or they both die because it’s teh coffin of Andy and leyley this is their coffin one or both must die in every ending their cannot be a good ending at all
The game is good.
The game is mid.
The game is bad.
That's how controversial the game is. All 3 of the most broad opinion bases will fight about how theirs is the right choice. Lol.
Ashley and Andrew will end up together no matter what. Weather it’s murder suicide or because they have a happy ending.
I think half the subreddit already agrees with that 😂
https://preview.redd.it/2tbfsz1wel5d1.jpeg?width=750&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=c16dc9c733629f9f5a29a56277523aa964e242e4
https://preview.redd.it/vcmefjxirl5d1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=e1a1a8d4bff58ea51ff698f58b7b489c80c593d9
https://preview.redd.it/52fx4qq8am5d1.jpeg?width=1000&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=1f5c99e8dc83e6c3b20fba41f365b205a447550f
 nurse
https://preview.redd.it/zms9079jwl5d1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=3e8beb4dd6ad61b01897cc20736bc77439665fdc
I don't know what's wrong with that.
Renee simps need to touch grass. 💀
Then I shall go touch grass
Ashley simps too
All of us need to touch grass.
Yup
Tell me something I don't know.
I'm behind you rn
Damn
Wait what? Who is Renee? I played the game multiple times and can't remember anyone named Renee
Renee is Mrs. Graves.
Who’s Renee?
Mrs. Graves. It's also the name of my mother. So when I see "Oh my god I wanna fuck Renee so bad" I die inside.
Lol my condolences
Andrew is not innocent, he's just as guilty as Ashley.
I agree. Episode 2 made me go from believing he’s a victim, to thinking he’s just as worse
Y'all need to stop acting like incest is the core identity of the game. It's not. It has maybe like a pinch of incest and you dorks blow it up and worship it as if the game isn't actually a hilarious gallows-humor story about toxic codependency.
I'm torn. Incestuous tones _are_ present in Andrew and Ashley's relationship. I don't think it's fair to call it a pinch—their relationship (and childhood) fits the bill for being an example in a psychology textbook for the foundation of an incestuous relationship through trauma and mental illness. You're right that it's more subtle, however, and it's certainly not the pornified form that exists in the community around the game. It's the messy, weird kind, where Andrew's reaction to the dream becomes even funnier. See, were it the porn kind, his reaction is just him being extremely flustered, it's not a big deal. But if you play it straight as the messy kind, Ashley's question becomes "Andrew, you have killed multiple people, engaged in cannibalism, and sold other people's souls. Is this really the line in the sand for you? Are you stupid?" Adding in what we know about their relationship (eg. Andrew talking about touching Ashley's ass, Ashley joking about her tits to Andrew, Andrew touching Ashley's ass, Renee assuming they're fucking, Renee trying to make them sleep separately, Andrew making Julia put her hair up like Ashley) and it becomes even funnier. It's similar to how Dr. Evil's quirks make him a funny villain and thus fitting in a comedy. But joking about sex in media is an easy way to end up with a horny fanbase, and a horny fanbase makes porn.
Yeah I get that and you have a point lol. But the PORN that people draw 😭
Yeah I made a post pointing that out and it was removed by the mods. This subreddit has become mostly just incest porn unfortunately. And there isn’t really any alternative subreddit thats decently popular. https://www.reddit.com/r/CoffinofAndyandLeyley/s/BtR5lPp7jy Has anyone else had this experience?
Some posts are straight up glorifying incest irl and calling incest bad gets you downvoted
I feel like the devs doubled down. It seems like every devlog just drives it further and further about the incest.
tbf if i got harassed off the internet for smth stupid like that then id play it up too
The “cry about it” drawing kind of shows Nemlei wants to lean into it
Nemlei had already doubled down on it long before most people even knew this game existed. The reaction on this sub though is just. Mediocre at best.
I mean I think “a pinch” is understating it
Both Ashley and Julia are cute.
Absolute cuties
https://preview.redd.it/aeaiu19a3o5d1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=88fafaf31c15a15db20a17208f4fc2e727aef7e8
While you can argue between Renee and Ashley, you can't deny Andrew's the bestest thing. That's one sure way to find yourself in that situation. Rightfully so...
Andrew is the bestest thing! 
Julia is a one time character. She won’t end up with Andrew again. She won’t even come back in the future episode, aside from in flashbacks. Also Julia BROKE UP with Andrew after months of mistreatment by BOTH of the Graves (severe neglect from Andrew and severe harassment from Ashley). Her being with Andrew isn’t “”Healthy”” for either of them.
I’m gonna have to agree with you 😭
In the tcoaal community, some of yall are way too weird about the incest Anywhere else, yall are way too pissed about the incest
But we can all agree its wincest
Mrs. Graves is not that hot
Everyone has their opinions
Finally A real take that'll put you under my home sized gullotine
https://preview.redd.it/cisz86fqkl5d1.png?width=569&format=png&auto=webp&s=d0f76be76da3113098663a526613d0d0cda63785
Everyone has their opinion, yours is that objectively wrong, but it's still an opinion.
an opinion can't be objectively wrong. Therefore, what we have here is misinformation, not opinion
shipping andrew and his mom is just weird and has no sense 
Yeeeeah, and bro hates his mom so where’d it come from?
THANK YOU
Not only it's incest,it's also SUPER disgusting because of the maturity difference they had (they knew eachother when Andrew was a child and Renee an adult)
Anything bad about Ashley Criticising her is the easiest way to get downvotes Tho You can't blame em since atleast 50% of people have Ashley as their favourite character Tho 40% make up simps and 8% drones
I’d never criticize my wife
THANK YOU istg, in these guy's eyes, Ashley is 100% innocent and its all Andrew's or Renee's fault. I'm not saying Ashley isnt a victim but ffs shes done terrible shit herself it kinda reminds me of the Gravity Falls fandom where any criticism of the character Mabel is met with a bunch of mental gymnastics about how she's 100% perfect and never in the wrong.
The real question is, what are the final 2%?
Normal people
Nothing bad about her, and am not joking nor a simp or sum
Julia is morally a better options than Ashley.
Julia is an angel compared to the siblings
True. Although(at least from what we know so far) that is so much the case, that Andrew doesn't deserve her. Her path to a better life started by cutting ties w/ Andrew(&Ashley), so it would only benefit her if she manages to not cross paths with the Graves again(which I think is unlikely).
Trusting Renee in general makes you a total sucker.
[I, and many others, feel vindicated now.](https://youtu.be/atnLA9W_zrc)
My flair speaks for itself
The hate that Julia gets is absolutely unbelievable. She was on screen for a few minutes 😭
Don't like Julia, never have, she should get as far away from that toxicity as possible, better for everyone involved.
What’d she do 😭 I agree she should get away but GOODNESS
Momcest IS NOT wincest
There should be an alternative subreddit for porn, like with every other fandom subreddit, even for NSFW games like Amorous and Changed.
https://preview.redd.it/mn7i2eqt8m5d1.jpeg?width=565&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=0f53a04f1c6106e398816f20a534646c16df714a I would use a normal meme, but since this is TCOAAL...
There is no such thing as normal in this fandom
https://preview.redd.it/qvijy92wsn5d1.jpeg?width=739&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=5e550375463abe23a1b2d8df77d1d01d1050c379 Unfortunately, you are correct on that.
There's already one such subreddit since last year: r/CoffinAndyLeyLeyNSFW
Yeah, my gripe is that NSFW runs rampant in this sub, while other, more horny games have rules against it.
The subreddit wanting Andrew and Ashley to have kids is kind of disgusting tbh
you’re bold for saying that, but I agree
https://preview.redd.it/jb5ctf0bkl5d1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=fff0815b213209d33113f3e1223c8fd3c6cab574 Agreed. I don’t think they realize it would probably come out looking like this…
The chances of that are lower than you'd think
more like this https://preview.redd.it/hb7koeqotl5d1.png?width=320&format=png&auto=webp&s=93784f3acc3f03f57440fd23bd44fc9dc5f896c9
I don't think you realize chances of that are borderline impossible. The first generation of incest is just more vulnerable to diseases, it would take successive generations to get a retard.
The subreddit is concerning in general. Sometimes I wonder if they're joking or if they seriously ship anyone in TCOAAL 😶
Tbh it would be funny, I want to see a mix between a crab and a human walking around sideway
Well that's definitely an opinion that would produce the above reaction.
Not in this sub, but in general- There’s nothing wrong with proshipping. It’s fiction. Get over yourselves.
Not supporting the incest
Yeah. I wish that the community can just accept not all of us like it
Exactly. It makes sense in the context of the story, but I don’t see it and think “I really want these two siblings to fuck” or anything. (I still think Ashley is hot af tho, which probably isn’t much better)
Yeah they’re absolutely hilarious
Well, you're allowed to be wrong. (obvious /s)
incest is actually bad, and a good chunk of this fanbase is only here because they are gooners with fucked up fetishes.
SAY IT LOUDER FOR PEOPLE IN THE BACK 🔥🔥🔥 Tbh it's people glorifying incest that is a huge turn off for me...it's no wonder why every other fan base hates us
??? Every fanbase hates us
yes, because we are known as "the incest game" and the fanbase being mostly gooners dosent help our image.
I mean. Personally I don’t care I enjoy the series and Andy x leley doesn’t mean I’m pro incest in real life
who gives a shit about our image when the people hating will still hate even if incest is gone. I say double down and go full freud and hapsburg the subreddit
Flair doesn't checks out.
how? liking Julia seems pretty far from incest IMO
> gooners > I would fuck Julia given the chance
**True.** (Cringe 'self-defense' mode, activate:) I even think that might include myself(although I'm here since mid-2023, before the explosion of popularity and many fanartists joined the community), even though I don't consider myself a gooner, I've(in possibly the majority of cases) got little to no problem with the 'down bad' side. On another note: interesting flair. On yet another note: **I gotta say I don't support any of the stuff the Graves(both the parents and the siblings) do IRL.** I mostly 'fake-support'(particularly Ashley) in jest(especially in my usage of the 'wincest' word). I consider this main sub to be a broad-tent sub: simuntaneously the Discussion side, general fanart side, NSFW side and shitposting side, all within the same subreddit(although more niche subs for those sides do exist aswell), so it can get tough at times. Something that I don't know if it is pertinent or not to bring up: I've been SA'd before, back when I had recently turned 18(I'm in my mid 20s), so that + my first contact with porn being by accident on cable tv(very late at night), when I was 4(and was dealing with cancer & related treatments IRL), may have forever impacted my views on such subjects in questionable always, inturn making me particularly alright with 'joking'(or making bad attempts at it) around these subjects. What's your opinion overall, though? Feel free to answer honestly.
Incest is bad 
Honestly, I really hate Ashley. She’s a horrible person. I don’t understand how she can be your favorite character.. (no hate) but she’s awful. There was an old post asking, “Do you think Ashley is a bad person?” Nobody saw my comment though since I answered pretty late. Anyways, here’s my comment from 48 days ago, I don’t think she’s a good person because she manipulated her own brother (Andrew), and fell in love with him. Ashley even had him kill 4 different people for her. (I think it’s 4 idk) She sent 157 voicemails or smt to Julia aka Andrew’s girlfriend and called her the worst things possible. She decided to kill her parents AND have her and her own brother eat them afterwards. She ALSO forced Andrew to swallow a man’s limb. That’s just disgusting. Also, she manipulated her brother into locking a girl with asthma in a dusty old warehouse locked inside a box, and killed her. She is a very disgusting person and I hate her. I feel really bad for Andrew because he had to deal with her sh!t and he got tricked by his sister. Ashley actually made her brother choose between her and an innocent girl. That’s vile. I hate Ashley Graves.
Fun fact: While Ashley is Tar Soul, Andrew is Grime Soul. Andrew is a lot like his mom. They both want to seem normal. They’re obsessed with it. Similarly, there’s only one person they really care about. For the mom, that’s the dad. For Andrew, that’s Ashley. That’s textbook sociopath behavior, actually. Sociopaths, unlike psychopaths, are capable of remorse and empathy and can form emotional attachments; it just takes a lot of time and effort. So they generally only form a few small connections, almost always only with their family. Even when you compare their casual behavior and how they talk, Andrew is far closer to the mom personality-wise than Ashley is. They have the same eye color for a reason. Let’s look at everything that would happen if Ashley didn’t exist. Andrew would still have been quarantined and left alone. To escape, he’d still have to eat the cultist. Either the security guard with the gun would have taken him out, or Andrew would have found some other way of killing the guy. He’d still have killed the 302 lady because he’d never want to leave loose ends. In fact, I’m positive that he was planning to kill her from the start and only waited until Ashley left so he could make an excuse for why he killed her to seem "normal.” If Andrew had used the demon’s help, he’d have gotten the prophecy charm. He’d have used it to survive and kill the hitman. It’s arguable whether he’d find the cultist party or if he’d go for the parents, but if he did, things would have likely ended up the same way anyway. You see? What, exactly, is Ashley at fault for? That’s why all his moping and foisting the blame on her is bullshit. (Neither of them is at fault in the first place.) He’s just trying to pass himself off as a normal guy, refusing to accept that he’s abnormal. Ashley, at the very least, accepts her own abnormality. That’s one thing she’s got over Mom and Andrew. So, if Andrew had done all the things he did anyway, is he really being "controlled"? Or is he just coping and trying to make it seem like it’s all Ashley’s fault, even though it’s clearly not? Never mind that; let’s look at all the information. The mom is "in charge" of the relationship, being in control of the dad, whereas Andrew is seemingly being pushed around by Ashley. But we have established that it’s Andrew who really takes after the mom. And Andrew has taken care of Ashley since they were kids. And he’s more capable than her in almost any way you can think of, to the point that she feels useless in comparison. She could never actually force him to do anything. By contrast, he could make her do whatever he wanted. Everything that he blames Ashley for is stuff that she’s simply not at fault for. And even the things that weren’t inevitable, (for example, they could have gone for some other unfortunate couple instead of their parents), Andrew could just have said, "No, we’re going to do this other thing,” and Ashley would have probably folded. It’s that simple. Controlling Andrew is beyond her. Actually, regarding what would have happened if Ashley didn’t exist, maybe none of the plot would have happened. You know why? Because Andrew was at a university, maybe he could have gotten a dorm; thus, he would have never been caught in quarantine. Why didn’t he? Because Ashley is in the apartment. He refuses to leave her. Because he’s just as obsessed with her as she is with him, even if he’s very good at hiding it. Again—everything that Ashley said during their argument in Episode 1 is true. Andrew chose to kill the Warden and the 302 lady. She didn’t make him do it. It was out of his own volition. And when they were kids, Andy reluctantly agreed to lock Nina and even gave tips to Leyley on how to do it. He made his choice to put the stick in when he could have done something else. There’s a lot of subconscious touching going on: Andrew playfully talking about being a wife beater to only Ashley, changing the subject about her giving her virginity to him while looking away in embarrassment, needing no excuse to touch her ass (while blushing), and a very conscious near misses at initiating a kiss, etc., and he gets embarrassed at doing these in public in front of people. He is lying about his conscience. Andrew has shown a few times in the game that he doesn't, or at least doesn't care, about the immorality of his actions, such as when Nina is killed. What he cares about instead are the consequences of his actions, specifically that they’ll get him separated from Ashley. That line after Andy discovers Nina’s body was, "They're going to take you away from me!” which shows possessiveness and perhaps ownership. He doesn't say anything like “We’ll be separated!” which would probably sound more appropriate given the situation, but he didn't. Throughout the game, Andrew, either forced or of his own volition, acquires quite the body count. He personally kills Warden Malcom, the Room 302 Lady, the hitman, and is an accomplice in killing Warden Dave, etc. As we can see during his nightmare sequence, he feels no guilt for killing any of those people and is only afraid of being caught for his actions. He had absolutely no qualms about sacrificing the innocent cultist to Lord Unknown just so only he and Ashley could survive (this happens if you take Ashley to the cultist club as Andrew and not go to the motel room where the hitman is). While Ashley is the poster child for “manipulation” in the game, Andrew is no slouch at it either. He proves good at wasting Warden Malcom’s time and comes up with the plan to lure Dave into their trap. In Episode 2, Andrew bullshits his way into the club using the cultist’s guilt for stealing a cake, somehow picking that up in the time of an elevator ride. He’s also so good at lying to his mother that Ashley cannot keep up. It is true that Julia is merely a substitute for Ashley, and that he has no actual attraction to her or any of his previous girlfriends (if he had any). Andrew has also been faking some night terrors as an excuse so he can sleep with Ashley. The manipulation is not solely one-sided between our sibling duo; Andrew is by far the more calculating one. But Leyley did consider Julia and Nina friends until Nina said that she has a crush on Andy, which we all know how that went... She still doesn’t want anyone to take her brother, and she’s someone who’s difficult for everyone, even her parents and so-called "friends," like Nina, who was happy to be around Andy but seemed put off by her and only agreed to play with her because Andy agreed to.
She’s not my favorite but I certainly can relate to her
In Andrew’s dream of the flashback before quarantine, Julia mutters that Ashley’s difficult in general despite her supposedly being Leyley’s "friends," so the reason why both Julia and Nina put up with her in the past is because of pleasing Andrew and hopefully getting together with him as a reward. Then there’s Andrew’s and Julia’s relationship, where we see how they first interact after in the Episode 3 preview after a a few years, but during the dream and the break-up call, Julia mentions how Andrew has always picked Ashley over and over whenever his sister wanted his company (despite him complaining about it and missing Ashley while she’s away): “—always about—you don’t—ley and Ashley, and—” Mind you, during the break-up call, Andrew put in no effort to stop Ashley’s harassment towards his ex: "[...] I mean, I can’t do anything about that... Or I can try talking to her, but—" and he wondered why he should be accountable for her actions. It’s confirmed that Ashley did harass Julia, but we don’t know what kind of harassment—when Andrew confronted Ashley about it, he says afterward, “So it really was you” in Episode 1—and Andrew’s dream could be what he imagined what she sent as a manifestation or projection with the death threats and 127 voicemails. To the point that Julia had to self-harm, and he just ignored it. To be honest, “Ashley” is correct—but that is Andrew’s manifestation of her and self-projection. He simply doesn’t care for his ex with “You'll never see her again. And the fact that it doesn bother you, bothers you.” Julia broke up with Andrew because of both the harassment from Ashley and Andrew always picking his sister over his ex over and over (even before quarantining while they dated). In the flashback with Andrew and Julia during the compartmentalize dream in Episode 2 (which was months before quarantine): 1. Andrew refused to make Ashley learn anything and be independent because they're enmeshed and he probably wants her to keep relying on him. 2. "If your sister needed something, wouldn't you go?" is ironic because in Episode 1, he always complained that they barely spend each other apart but in Episode 2, he could be away from Ashley for like 10-30 minutes and he'd miss her and rather that not be separated even in the same house, etc. 3. Saying that Ashley is shook up about Nina's death is bullshit because he knows what they did to her, he's just covering up their crimes and manipulating Julia by using sweet words and making an excuse as to why he goes to Ashley whenever they make plans. 4. Julia's "She's difficult in general..." Yeah, she only wanted to be "friends" with Leyley when they were kids because Andy asked and when they're adults she started dating Andrew until she broke up with him. 5. The only time Andrew is happy is anything relating to Ashley, he's not even happy about his relationship with Julia. He's only using her as a substitute for his incestuous feelings for his sister and it's confirmed that he makes Julia tie her hair up so she can look like Ashley... And this has happened before. (There were a few players that didn't get this and thought that Andrew was just kinky with his girlfriend). I am confused about Julia as a character regarding the siblings. Like in the lemon muffin lore, Leyley said that none of her friends attended her birthdays; in the video, Julia was waiting for Andrew and seems like she’s relieved that Ashley calls her a friend (Andrew is lying after all and absolutely knows how much his sister hates her) but then changes the subject by asking Andrew about the rumors (in plural form) after Andrew thanks her for being her “friend” with a Freudian slip, “It means a lot to m—her.” Afterwards, Julia is only focusing on caring about Andrew and doesn't mention anything about Ashley. But then again, she’s interacting with Andrew, it’s so obvious from how much she has a crush on him, and we don’t know how she was with Ashley in their teenage years. As an adult, she mutters, “Ashley is difficult in general…” I don't think the rumors have anything to do with the siblings’ relationship or about Nina, since if they had, Andrew would have been freaked out. Andrew has never taken responsibility for his actions. Warden Malcom? Ashley’s fault for messing up; he also had it coming for leering at Ashley. The lady in Room 302? Ashley wanted her dead anyway. The hitman? That was self-defense (based, actually). Eating the cultist? Ashley made the comment about the meat, and Andrew was the one that said if it’s okay to eat him, but they were also forced because of extreme circumstances (the latter part understandable, really). While Andrew would like to pretend he has no agency in the game, he does. Andrew has stood up for himself in the game to some success (Ashley does start calling him Andrew), and he would just rather not, so Ashley can take the blame for his actions. He is extremely nonchalant about cutting himself and Leyley for the blood oath—not something you expect a normal child to do. He does not care about the organ harvesting or the fact he’s dropped out of college, and he is disturbingly calm when murdering the Warden. The only things that can seemingly reliably get a strong response from Andrew are: 1. Insulting or threatening Ashley (the survival rate ain’t good on that one). 2. Ashley wanting sex with another person (by far the strongest reaction from him, huh). 3. Insinuation he’s into Ashley. 4. The Nina incident. Other than those things, it is extremely hard to break his cool. The game has shown time and time again that harming, threatening, insulting, or leering at Ashley in Andrew’s presence is a bad idea. What seems weird are the idiot cultist and the description of Warden Malcom in Andrew’s dream. The idiotic cultist has, up to that point, shown themselves to be completely harmless and nothing but helpful. Yet when they called Ashley a bitch, which was totally justified given the context, Andrew gave him a death glare. Kind of an overreaction to an insult. It is revealed Andrew regrets giving Warden Malcom a quick death... because he leered at Ashley? That is just odd. Warden Malcom starved them (yes, Ashley included) for months, relished having power over them, reveled in antagonizing them both, knowing they could not do anything about it, and in general was on a constant power trip. Yet somehow, him leering at Ashley pissed him off the most? If you talk to the mom as Andrew with Ashley in the basement, she tells them that absence (regarding Andrew and Ashley) makes the heart go fonder, only for Andrew to think to himself (looking away while blushing): "The very last thing I need is to grow fonder of that nightmare of a woman.” Andrew doesn’t like being away from Ashley for a specific amount of time because he does miss her, despite him saying that he doesn’t, which seems to be a little theme where Andrew would be fine with doing or saying something at first but then lie to himself that he was forced to do it and didn’t have a choice when he did, hence him probably shifting the blame towards Ashley.
There’s been subtle hints during Episodes 1-2 that he could be a sociopath, considering there’s an interaction where you could watch Andrew butcher the cultist while Ashley cheers, which makes Andrew telling her to be quiet, then a scene later he laughs at her—another theme could be that anytime that there’s something serious going on, Andrew laughs at the dark humor around it, which isn’t something a normal person does since this has happened several times throughout the game so far.
Because Ashley is relatable and people like what they can relate to. Obviously, most would never cannibalise/kill but her emotional dysfunction is all too real.
My main pet peeve when people play this game is when they solely blame everything on Ashley and think that her whole existence is just “manipulating” her brother while thinking that Andrew is some "innocent victim." It just goes to show that people aren't analyzing the characters and only take everything at face value. Andy is the one that enables Leyley's ideas, and it was his choice to reluctantly agree to go along with her scheme. He's the one that gave her tips on how to lock Nina up, and the only thing that I could fault Leyley for was her use of emotional manipulation in that scene (which I find weak, in my opinion—and Andy knows that), and it was her brother's choice to put the stick in and suggest that Nina stay there until morning. It was his idea to take the blood oath in the first place because it wasn't good enough for Leyley, and he made an excuse that it was for her when, really, it was for him as a reassurance that their crimes weren't out. Everything that Ashley said during their argument in Episode 1 is correct. She isn't gaslighting him. Andrew did make his own choice to put the stick on the hinges; while Ashley did comment that there's a lot of meat on the cultist, Andrew is the one that insinuates cannibalism (I'm not sure if this is considered gaslighting); he made his own choice to kill the Warden to the point that he only regretted not giving him a slower death just because he ogled proactively at Ashley; he was the one that actually suggested that he shoot the other Warden back in Episode 1; he only killed the 302 Lady because Ashley would have wanted to anyway and leave no witnesses, and him shooting the hitman was self-defense. Andrew does have agency, but he chooses not to use it, and, while he is smart, it's been proven a few times that he can use physical violence towards her if he doesn't like Ashley's idea. From what we know so far, Leyley was neglected by her parents because they found her to be difficult. Andy has already bonded with his sister and felt sympathetic towards her when his friend visibly showed his disgust towards Leyley to the point that he asked Julia and Nina to be friends with her, and they did it just so they could be closer to Andrew despite their suppressed dislike for her. I find it ironic that even after seeing Nina's body, Andy was more focused on the consequences of their actions and being separated from his sister. Andrew didn’t give a shit about Julia; he refused to let Ashley learn independence and, saying that he can't make her learn anything; always picked his sister over his girlfriend; used her as an Ashley substitute while manipulating her with sweet words, making excuses as to why he always goes over to his sister over her when he knows what they did to her best friend Nina; he was only happy when his sister is mentioned; asked his ex to tie her hair like his sister again; didn’t do anything when he found out she was being harassed by Ashley during the break up call when he was probably the main reason since he always picked his sister over her and refused to do anything about it; he knew about Julia's self harming and ignored it. I interpreted the voicemails as Andrew projecting and manifesting what he thinks Ashley said since it was confirmed that she did harassed Julia but we don't know how and he said, "So it really was you," and he thinks Ashley is the one to blame for his love life and actions, which is ironic because it's him too. Every time you think Ashley is manipulating Andrew, she's not. Like, for example, the car ride argument, she loves joking around while Andrew takes them seriously, and she misses the days back in childhood where he wasn't as uptight about his nickname. She is actually upset with him for his behavior (getting teary-eyed, refusing to talk to him, calling their argument a lover’s spat, etc.). As much as a Tar Soul she is, Ashley genuinely believes that no one likes her, not even her own brother. Her “manipulation tactic” is just her believing her self-hatred, having a lot of insecurities, and seeing herself as useless, which is why she wants Andrew to depend on her. Almost all of Ashley’s actions and inner thoughts make much more sense when you look at them with the idea that she’s simply doing her best to make sure Andrew doesn’t leave her for others. Nemlei (the creator) confirmed that “Ashley’s obsession here wasn't so much of a romantic desire, but to wrap Andrew around her little fingers by whatever means necessary.” Obsession “here,” implying Nemlei is only referring to one specific scene. “So much” of a romantic desire, meaning it wasn’t the sole motivating factor, but it was a factor.
The graves siblings really don't deserve a "happy ending" I love them both a shit-ton but why would two people who have made deals with literal demons and sacrificed a few people for power be allowed to live a "happily ever after" ending? If anything, the game consistently implies they're gonna pay for their actions from the minute the neighbor dies to the second they get away with killing Renee.
I’m calling it right now, they’re going to damn their own souls by getting too involved with the demon in the Burial route
Mrs Graves is a married full grown woman.
im gonna bite the bullet, as much as i like a well done incest joke here n there i think most people miss the point of ashley and andrew's relationship entirely
https://preview.redd.it/d66itdetel5d1.jpeg?width=750&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=4499cb922eb9ffdf2800dbde11a4342145eee3fd
Prepare for the possible shit storm coming your way
The incest will soon just be overused and disgusting. (I’ll still enjoy it though, don’t support it though.)
I mean I like Andrew x Ashley doesn’t mean I’m for incest irl
incest is bad
More about the subreddit,but I fucking hate pink and green color posts.Love seeing the same joke for the hundreth fricking time,it wasn't even funny in the first place.
People that play this game hate far too much on the Andrew x Ashley ship cuz of the fact that their siblings when that's not why their shipped nor is it what people find attractive about them. A lot of people genuinely don't give a shit if their siblings, they want them together cause of the dynamic they have with eachother not because "Incest is hot!1!1!1!😩" Like if they weren't even related and still kept the same/very similar dynamic people would ship them just as much.
incest is an unironically important part of the story due to the genre of Southern Gothic Horror having incest as an integral symbol
Julia... I said what I said
Real
The game is good (in the context of outside the subreddit)
renee being a shit mother doesnt excuse ashley being a psyco who takes every horrible choise she possibly can
https://preview.redd.it/ksgr8qw4dp5d1.jpeg?width=1668&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=dad03dd88d5e5b10c92c19a8c8d93b0cf702683d
I ship Thiu and Thiu from Better Half (also a Nemlei game) more than Ashley and Andrew (With this I think I have signed my death certificate)
https://preview.redd.it/2pcrcwlhj16d1.png?width=1126&format=png&auto=webp&s=ba8e35f6e74d08234086fe35bcfc8791352667aa very based of you the thiu's are so cute together
Fr, is that art you drew btw? Its AMAZINGGG Had to instant follow after I saw ur flair and bio
It's way too high quality to be something I could draw it's by our-shared-coffin on Tumblr I do draw Thiu alot tho, better half is what got me into drawing so I have only been drawing for a few months now https://preview.redd.it/1jhlipovs76d1.jpeg?width=3072&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=67ec84adee3111dabd506ee1f723d4fc38b36472
Andrew is in charge of that relationship. Yes, Ashley is crazy and controlling. But, if Andrew really *wanted* to stop it, he could in a heartbeat. Andrew is charming but manipulative. Ashley worships the ground he stands on and Andrew has her in his back pocket.
Louder for the suckers in the back. He’s got ample means and plentiful opportunity to shut her down, but he is too ride or die for her, so he can’t understand why she’d see any need to manipulate him to stay when leaving is the last thing he’d ever want.
Yes. My biggest pet peeve is when people pull the "Aww poor Andrew, it's all his sister's fault" card. Nah, man. My boy is just as fucked as her. He could say no and take her out *whenever* he wants. But who would he control then?
i dont like incest
My one post a while back that said because they fucked in a vision doesn't mean they'll fuck in Ch. 3, everyone of my replies got downvoted, i felt just like this meme.
Ashley gets too sexualised and it’s getting fucking gross with all the fort fetish fan arts about Ashley
Julia is a good character ill have a knife to my throat tbh
While their mom certainly played the biggest part in the siblings ending up the way they did, I disagree that it was all 100% nurture. If they were born with a different personality type, they would probably not have committed murder even with the exact same shitty treatment by Renee.
Ashley’s crime was that she was harder to raise than Andrew
Renee was a potential threat to them who sold them out once and would again, they'd still murder HER regardless of personality if they weren't idiots.
https://preview.redd.it/muv5dwujdl5d1.png?width=1000&format=png&auto=webp&s=786d64da1c26fe368ff8afe6176ea7956c238bd2
Please no, I have a sister 😭
Oh no😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭
ikr? mommyfucking is where it’s at
Ashley and Andrew in the apartment should _not_ be fuckable. "But her fat tits!" I can hear you cry out. Consider this: how much shampoo, conditioner, and soap do you have at your home right now? How long could you go without going to the store? And let's get at it: toilet paper's probably not that available either, and I don't think bidets were en vogue in the 90s. They probably fucking stink. You may think it's fine, but this isn't some "I went for a run and now I came back lightly sweaty" kind of stink, this is months of stink that's probably impacted by malnourishment too. Andrew is probably mentally worse than Ashley, he's just masking like it's Japanese theatre. He has/had friends, he could've been normal—he _fell_, and this awareness of his own immorality literally causes him distress. "I want a partner like Andrew/Ashley!" No, you probably don't. I shouldn't have to explain this one. If you're mentally ill, you get a pass.
Everyone on this sub needs to read this https://preview.redd.it/dtvwg1h0yl5d1.jpeg?width=1334&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=5d181366881e24ffcf608d59cb8b60929f36a615
. . . You know what that book did to SpongeBob, right? It wasn't good!
The incest is weird, I like the game and how it focuses a bit on toxic codependency and more "darker" subjects , but honestly, the incest posting on this sub is mb to much Also I'm not a fan of Ashley (edit bc i forgot to add a word)
ashley and andrew ship is cringe
ashley bad asf
That I like the game except most of the incest part (The" Big words don't fit in your mouth" part was the only funny part to me) Got called a degenerate piece of shit when telling someone I knew
No way someone called you that 💀
Yep, they said I was defending incest and saying I deserve to go to hell, mind you this is an 8th grade cafeteria (a year ago)
https://preview.redd.it/lltxa6faul5d1.png?width=1071&format=png&auto=webp&s=ab2faacce64b8016ade775411cb83489037838da this guys opinion would
This is the most famous and controversial game of Nemlei and thus she need to make it an animated show
Liking the game.
"ashley should die for andy's plot development!"
Don’t stick your dick in crazy
Andrew is a shitty person, yes. But the common take that he´s ¨Just as bad, or worse¨ Than Ashley is so stupid. He actually shows remorse for some of his actions, he took care of Ashley almost solo for years, and he's always the one trying to mediate conflict from whatever situation she puts them in. ¨But he´s only acting like that so he can live a normal life, he´s just suppressing his urges¨ Ok? Yeah, that seems fairly reasonable. I'm pretty sure that's what you are meant to do. Whereas Ashley indulges her every whim and does not care about consequences. What is worse? A Violent Racist who beats every person of a different skin color he sees, or a vanilla racist who just keeps their thoughts to themselves out of fear of ridicule? I vote the first one. Ashly does everything Andrew does, but more of it, and worse. How is Andrew worse than Ashly?
Incest is bad and wrong and gross.
"There's nothing wrong with incest as long as you're not having kids."
This.
The Decay route is more interesting than Burial.
1. Decay ending is the most likely canon ending. 2. Andy is cute and breedable.
Incest is kinda icky
The game isn't about how incest is actually good
Yeah the fans did that not the game
Honestly, I've been slowly losing interest for the game due to the lack of any major updates to the game's story in the last 6+ months or so. While I appreicate Nemlei and Kit9's progress reports that happen every month, I honestly think there needs to be more done in order to maintain people's interest in the game outside of the shock factor that the siblings can engage in an incestuous relationship. I get the feeling that Nemlei is making the story up as she goes along with development, which isn't a bad thing at all, but the lack of any major updates to the game currently has me worried. Ideally I'd want Nemlei and Kit9 to release Decay and Burial in two parts and release the first parts of those arcs now to allow players to provide feedback, while also proceeding with the proposed four chapters outline that was recently announced as well. I bought the game while it was on sale, but given the fact the game is really quick to finish and is severely lacking in content in its current state, I don't feel my money was well spent at all. My hope is that I retract my previous statement once the game starts to receive more updates, but I'm not exactly feeling too confident. I'm also getting really tired of how the fandom is constantly obsessed with the incest subplot from Burial. While I'm personally biased towards Decay as that was the route/ending that I got on my first playthrough, I do think both story routes have their own merits and I look forward to seeing how they turn out. However, with the lack of any updates to the game and story, I feel like the fandom and general audiences who are familiar with the game and its characters have latched on to *just the incest subplot* and tie that to the game's core identity through fanart and memes. I would even go so far as to argue the fandom has more tourists who haven't touched the game at all and only concern themselves with the incest stuff than those who have actually played the game. The discussion surrounding incest has grown to a point where I feel people are treating Burial as the de facto canon route and barely any discussion/theories surrounding Decay ever get discussed. It also doesn't help that Nemlei is capitalizing on the incest subplot given the promotional artwork she's posted alongside some of the progress reports, which to me only adds fuel to the fire.
Decay and Burial are already going to be in separate updates. So I'm not really sure what kind of updates you're expecting. To be clear: Nemlei is a single person. They're doing all of the art, programming, coding, and writing for the game. As a single dev of a visual novel that does not involve the heavier coding that a game like this does, even in the engine they're using, I'm telling you I've hardly even gotten one opening scene written in 3 months. It's not that easy. [ I agree with the rest of your post, but I want to ask why you think you haven't gotten like 10$ worth of gameplay in just the two parts already out, and what you realistically expect from a single person. ]
I am so sick of how sexual this game has become. It's to the point I've had several people add me on Discord because of my username ( happened to catch ashley.graves before anyone else did lol ), and then proceeded to spam me with sex GIFs and other shit. Like, I don't know if you fuckers are actually minors. Y'all fuckers don't know I'm not a minor, I can say I'm 92 but that doesn't make it true. You guys need to fucking relax.
Incest is abhorrent.
The fact that there is a game with canonical sibling incest gives people who have incestuous relationships irl representation outside of porn--this is a good and necessary permutation of relationship to show in game *because* of its normalization of incest
hot take incest should not be normalised actually?????
Nothing. This community has my back that these siblings kissing is BASED AF 🙌🔥🔥🔥
incest is bad however in the context of the game it makes sense.so I'll allow it. not condone it
Life and suffering of Sir Brante is better
I really believe Andy tried something strange with the girl downstairs from the apartment
Andrew says himself in his Chapter 2 dream that he killed her to not leave any witnesses behind. He didn't try to rape her.
The best ending for this game will be a neutral ending where the siblings separate. Their relationship is toxic and they should not be together, and any attempts to do so will result in their deaths
Oh I have the perfect take for this since it got my downvoted to oblivion last time, Ashley is objectively morally worse than Andrew.
Just playing the game lol
Any opinion in the wrong place. We have nations at this point.
their cooking looks delicious, I'd like to try it
The game had a good narrative that both sides, the fandom and twitter, ignore.
The game will have no good endings I believe all the endings will be trash and only one of the siblings can survive for each ending or they both die because it’s teh coffin of Andy and leyley this is their coffin one or both must die in every ending their cannot be a good ending at all
Cannibalism
"Ashley isn't that hot"
I don't think the mom/Mrs Graves is hot
I dont like incest but theyre so comfy together....
The game is good. The game is mid. The game is bad. That's how controversial the game is. All 3 of the most broad opinion bases will fight about how theirs is the right choice. Lol.
The only innocent people are Nina and Julia
Death penalty
I mean... liking TCOAAL itself will have u like this
I like Nina <3
That the logic “because you like the game you like incest” is stupid
If someone were to say “incest is not wincest” that would definitely put them in that situation if not worse
Andrew is arguably more malevolent and vindictive than Ashley
THIS IS THE MOST SHITTY GAME, I HATE INCEST, WHY IS EVEN THAT A THING IN THE GAME?! (ofc this is not my opinion, in 💝🌞💔 we trust.)
Andrew is a better character than Ashley