Part of it may be due to how the question was asked.
> [Do you believe underage minors should be required to wait until they are adults to use puberty blockers and **undergo permanent sex change procedures?**](https://www.thetrafalgargroup.org/wp-content/uploads/2022/10/COSA-Minors-Full-Report-1014.pdf)
There is generally more acceptance for puberty blockers for minors compared to permanent sex change procedures. Even then "permanent sex change procedures" seems pretty vague...
Whichever side of the debate you're on, I don't think much of an conclusion can be drawn from this.
Which is why Republicans need to make this a far more prominent issue moving forward.
Yes, the media and Democrats will call the GOP transphobic. But 80% of voters will agree with the GOP.
I just took a quick look at Kari Lake, Blake Masters, and Dr. Oz's campaign websites. Of all their issue pages, only Masters has a single sentence referencing gender ideology.
It is hardly central to campaigns because GOP politicians are still fearful of getting deep into the culture war that is unpopular with the media and Democrats.
"Nearly 80%" is a huge shift, and a demonstration of the power of mass media as propaganda. There's no way it wouldn't have been 99% just a decade ago.
1) What does it mean to "feel" like a male or a female? Until that is defined, surgery and hormones are clearly experimental procedures which all too often fail.
2) What is the suicide rate for folks who feel like the opposite sex, and don't have surgery or take hormones? What is the suicide rate for those who feel like the opposite sex and take hormones? What is the suicide rate for those who feel like the opposite sex and have surgery and take hormones?
If "science" doesn't know the answers to those questions, or the answers do not support mutilation, what on earth are "we" doing? Or are there other outcome variables besides suicide that tell "science" that surgery and hormones are effective and safe (which is the standard for all other medical treatments...)?
Add to the equation children, and this is guaranteed to be harmful.
There has been a fairly concerted effort to hide the suicide rates. It's not good the bits of research I have seen and it doesn't improve much after. But knowing a few trans people, they have a lot of other issues on top of that. Fucked up childhood, severe social anxiety, that sort of stuff. Even if the surgery is successful you are still looking at a heap of problems that would make a lot of people suicidal.
I really don't care about the surgery as far as adults go. If they think it's going to make their life a little better, then go for it, it's your life.
Children should absolutely not be getting these sorts of treatments. Get them counseling, get them whatever help they need but you should absolutely not be making life altering choices like this for kids. It's fucking hard and confusing enough to be a teenager without adults pushing this stuff on you.
Even simple things like a knee or a back surgery can eff someone up. Once they cut in you, you are never really the same, especially in body parts that have reflexes. Greedy doctors will do anything. But don't expect them to return you back to the way you were meant to be.
I think this is a both sides of the issue so it should be 100%. Minors need to know the real effects of sex change. Adults who go through this see it through and can foresee how life will be for them. Minors can’t as they don’t have the experience to do so. My opinion is that anyone under 25 shouldn’t be allowed to get one since under that age, 25, your brain isn’t fully developed yet.
Can anyone point to data regarding the number of sex change procedures on minors?
This seems like something both sides of the aisles agree upon, based on this data, so I’d like to better understand just how many minors are actually getting constructive / reconstructive surgery.
It's a small percentage of all teens, but it's a pretty quickly growing market in the US.
Part of the issue with knowing how many teens are being operated on or permanently altered through "medications" is that no doctors have made that information public, there's no reliable studies on it, and yet WPATH has continually lowered the age of recommended medical intervention even while the rest of the Western World has been hitting the brakes due to all the health concerns that have come up. They also refuse to include or study detransitioners so we don't have any data on that, and they use the lack of data to claim its rare or doesn't happen.
However there are numbers that are accessible from Europe. Look up Tavistock Gender Clinic both the lawsuits they're facing (over 5% of their patients are involved) and their increase in referrals and patients. "In less than a decade there has been a 1,460% increase in referrals of boys and a 5,337% increase in girls."
Of course it is wildly disapproved of. Thats why the woke gravitate to it.
Wokeism is a bully culture. It exists to allow it's adherents to bully others and feel self righteous when doing do. They follow three steps:
Step 1. Choose a social stance that you know most people will reflexively reject. It's important to be an idea normal, healthy people will object to: that give you the widest possible audience to bully.
Step 2. Build your army. Target socially awkward rejects online with no friends or social connections, and promise them exactly what they crave, acceptance among a social group. All they have to do is accept the ludicrous proposition created in step 1
Step 3. Attack. Target the vast majority of the population that reject your reprehensible idea from step 1 and publicly bully them. Shame them be claiming that their obvious reaction to your ridiculous proposition is somehow hurtful to dome marginalized group, and in defend the ridiculous idea you are virtuous and immune to any blowback by bullying others
Ride step 3 for a while, the return to Step 1, come up with another ridiculous claim, and run the course again. This is also why wokeism is destined to die. Bully cultures have never lasted long throughout human history. Popular revolts always topple them
We don’t allow children to smoke or drink. If a child identifies as a different sex, I am not against it. I am only against children being medically or surgically treated before they are adults.
Whoever were on these polls voting in favor of these procedures need to be investigated and locked up. Too bad the FBI is too busy being political slaves and an army for liberals.
They literally claim that not performing medical experiments involving chemical castration and genital mutilation on children is equivalent to the Holocaust. Their insanity is mind boggling as they would label a 2008 Democrat as a genocidal Nazi.
Pointing out that it’s not common is gas lighting. The only way you could think it is common is if you only listen to people who agree with you. As the study shows 80% of people disagree with it which means a large portion of progressives do to. Unless we are grouping in hormone blockers as a sex change procedure. But very very few agree with sex change on kids and most doctors wouldn’t perform it.
I mean according to this exact poll this post is about, you're fucking wrong. The reason it's 80% overall is because almost 100% of conservatives are against it. With lefties/progressives it's basically 50-50. Literally half the people you're trying to defend are ok with it. So yea you are gaslighting. 50% is not a very very small amount bud.
I said right above if you include hormone blockers which isn’t a sex change procedure so this poll is intentionally misleading because bottom surgery and hormones therapy are two different things.
>bottom surgery and hormones therapy are two different things.
Are they really? If hormone therapy leads to surgical alteration in almost every instance wouldn't it be considered two steps of the same process?
No. They’re two different process. All surgeries use anesthesia. That’s like saying back and heart surgery the same cause they start with anesthesia. Hormones therapy is a specific and different process than bottom surgery. Can’t just group them together
I think you missed my point. Anesthesia can be the precursor to many different procedures. Hormone therapy almost always leads to the same place when administered to minors.
Yes it is gaslighting, if it wasn't a big deal or didn't occur there would be ZERO issue with banning such procedures for minors. We know exactly what you are trying.
According to this poll it's 50/50 for leftists so way more common than it should be.
98 percent of Republicans and 90 percent of independentsv oppose this garbage.
Should be 100%
It’s probably closer to 100%…
What I came here to say.
\~Fits "The psychology of Totalitarianism" prediction
Article says ‘a whopping 78%’ Wtf only 78%??
You can usually count on 20% of the base doing and going along with whatEVER their party says.
Isn’t 22% approximately how many support murdering children as they exit the birth canal after nine months?
That number is both surprisingly high (for what is happening) and surprisingly low (for decent civilized humans)
Part of it may be due to how the question was asked. > [Do you believe underage minors should be required to wait until they are adults to use puberty blockers and **undergo permanent sex change procedures?**](https://www.thetrafalgargroup.org/wp-content/uploads/2022/10/COSA-Minors-Full-Report-1014.pdf) There is generally more acceptance for puberty blockers for minors compared to permanent sex change procedures. Even then "permanent sex change procedures" seems pretty vague... Whichever side of the debate you're on, I don't think much of an conclusion can be drawn from this.
Couldn’t have put it better myself!
The Dems are becoming the party of Trans issues. That’s a huge part of their platform. Even most Dems are having none of that shit.
...and the other 20% should probably be kept away from children.
I was about to say the other 20% worry me.
Exactly what I thought
TIL 20% of the population shouldn’t be around minors.
One of them is our President
I’m concerned as to what is wrong with the 20% who said they weren’t
Which is why Republicans need to make this a far more prominent issue moving forward. Yes, the media and Democrats will call the GOP transphobic. But 80% of voters will agree with the GOP.
It’s already pretty central to everyone’s campaign
I just took a quick look at Kari Lake, Blake Masters, and Dr. Oz's campaign websites. Of all their issue pages, only Masters has a single sentence referencing gender ideology. It is hardly central to campaigns because GOP politicians are still fearful of getting deep into the culture war that is unpopular with the media and Democrats.
Well that’s super interesting. I was under the impression it would be more widespread given conservative media
"Nearly 80%" is a huge shift, and a demonstration of the power of mass media as propaganda. There's no way it wouldn't have been 99% just a decade ago.
20% of respondents are repugnant degenerates.
20% should be put on a list. Not that the FBI would be concerned with that…
There is pretty much nothing that you can get 80 percent of people to agree on in this country.
Republicans need to push hard on this issue. Force the left to defend it.
And 80% of that 20% is likely under 25 years old themselves…
1) What does it mean to "feel" like a male or a female? Until that is defined, surgery and hormones are clearly experimental procedures which all too often fail. 2) What is the suicide rate for folks who feel like the opposite sex, and don't have surgery or take hormones? What is the suicide rate for those who feel like the opposite sex and take hormones? What is the suicide rate for those who feel like the opposite sex and have surgery and take hormones? If "science" doesn't know the answers to those questions, or the answers do not support mutilation, what on earth are "we" doing? Or are there other outcome variables besides suicide that tell "science" that surgery and hormones are effective and safe (which is the standard for all other medical treatments...)? Add to the equation children, and this is guaranteed to be harmful.
There has been a fairly concerted effort to hide the suicide rates. It's not good the bits of research I have seen and it doesn't improve much after. But knowing a few trans people, they have a lot of other issues on top of that. Fucked up childhood, severe social anxiety, that sort of stuff. Even if the surgery is successful you are still looking at a heap of problems that would make a lot of people suicidal. I really don't care about the surgery as far as adults go. If they think it's going to make their life a little better, then go for it, it's your life. Children should absolutely not be getting these sorts of treatments. Get them counseling, get them whatever help they need but you should absolutely not be making life altering choices like this for kids. It's fucking hard and confusing enough to be a teenager without adults pushing this stuff on you.
Even simple things like a knee or a back surgery can eff someone up. Once they cut in you, you are never really the same, especially in body parts that have reflexes. Greedy doctors will do anything. But don't expect them to return you back to the way you were meant to be.
[удалено]
That’s scary that it’s not way higher
Does the kid identify as a smoker? Too bad Wanna chop off your goods? As long as you swear it'll make you happy!
“We have to pass it to find out what’s in it.” Now we know what’s in it, Nancy.
Is it even legal to do sex changes on minors?
I think this is a both sides of the issue so it should be 100%. Minors need to know the real effects of sex change. Adults who go through this see it through and can foresee how life will be for them. Minors can’t as they don’t have the experience to do so. My opinion is that anyone under 25 shouldn’t be allowed to get one since under that age, 25, your brain isn’t fully developed yet.
Can anyone point to data regarding the number of sex change procedures on minors? This seems like something both sides of the aisles agree upon, based on this data, so I’d like to better understand just how many minors are actually getting constructive / reconstructive surgery.
It's greater than 0 which is too many
It's a small percentage of all teens, but it's a pretty quickly growing market in the US. Part of the issue with knowing how many teens are being operated on or permanently altered through "medications" is that no doctors have made that information public, there's no reliable studies on it, and yet WPATH has continually lowered the age of recommended medical intervention even while the rest of the Western World has been hitting the brakes due to all the health concerns that have come up. They also refuse to include or study detransitioners so we don't have any data on that, and they use the lack of data to claim its rare or doesn't happen. However there are numbers that are accessible from Europe. Look up Tavistock Gender Clinic both the lawsuits they're facing (over 5% of their patients are involved) and their increase in referrals and patients. "In less than a decade there has been a 1,460% increase in referrals of boys and a 5,337% increase in girls."
Wow. 20% is just fucking evil.
It seems the very loud and angry minority rule the day.
Of course it is wildly disapproved of. Thats why the woke gravitate to it. Wokeism is a bully culture. It exists to allow it's adherents to bully others and feel self righteous when doing do. They follow three steps: Step 1. Choose a social stance that you know most people will reflexively reject. It's important to be an idea normal, healthy people will object to: that give you the widest possible audience to bully. Step 2. Build your army. Target socially awkward rejects online with no friends or social connections, and promise them exactly what they crave, acceptance among a social group. All they have to do is accept the ludicrous proposition created in step 1 Step 3. Attack. Target the vast majority of the population that reject your reprehensible idea from step 1 and publicly bully them. Shame them be claiming that their obvious reaction to your ridiculous proposition is somehow hurtful to dome marginalized group, and in defend the ridiculous idea you are virtuous and immune to any blowback by bullying others Ride step 3 for a while, the return to Step 1, come up with another ridiculous claim, and run the course again. This is also why wokeism is destined to die. Bully cultures have never lasted long throughout human history. Popular revolts always topple them
It would be 100% if people saw how a sex change operation is performed, they’re horrific.
Ever see a hip replacement?
Reeeeeeeeee!!!
We don’t allow children to smoke or drink. If a child identifies as a different sex, I am not against it. I am only against children being medically or surgically treated before they are adults.
Could be 0% and I'd still be right
I wonder what the result would have been had they also asked the same question with a cutoff at the age of 16.
Whoever were on these polls voting in favor of these procedures need to be investigated and locked up. Too bad the FBI is too busy being political slaves and an army for liberals.
I hope they kept their names so they can be subpoenaed and put on a watchlist.
As do most leftist. It’s not a common thing at all.
Go on any left wing sub and say you oppose sex changes for kids, and see how long it takes for you to get banned.
They literally claim that not performing medical experiments involving chemical castration and genital mutilation on children is equivalent to the Holocaust. Their insanity is mind boggling as they would label a 2008 Democrat as a genocidal Nazi.
Do you actually think that gaslighting is going to work on us here lol
Pointing out that it’s not common is gas lighting. The only way you could think it is common is if you only listen to people who agree with you. As the study shows 80% of people disagree with it which means a large portion of progressives do to. Unless we are grouping in hormone blockers as a sex change procedure. But very very few agree with sex change on kids and most doctors wouldn’t perform it.
Hormone blockers are a sex change procedure.
I mean according to this exact poll this post is about, you're fucking wrong. The reason it's 80% overall is because almost 100% of conservatives are against it. With lefties/progressives it's basically 50-50. Literally half the people you're trying to defend are ok with it. So yea you are gaslighting. 50% is not a very very small amount bud.
I said right above if you include hormone blockers which isn’t a sex change procedure so this poll is intentionally misleading because bottom surgery and hormones therapy are two different things.
Chemically castrating children is wrong.
>bottom surgery and hormones therapy are two different things. Are they really? If hormone therapy leads to surgical alteration in almost every instance wouldn't it be considered two steps of the same process?
No. They’re two different process. All surgeries use anesthesia. That’s like saying back and heart surgery the same cause they start with anesthesia. Hormones therapy is a specific and different process than bottom surgery. Can’t just group them together
I think you missed my point. Anesthesia can be the precursor to many different procedures. Hormone therapy almost always leads to the same place when administered to minors.
Yes it is gaslighting, if it wasn't a big deal or didn't occur there would be ZERO issue with banning such procedures for minors. We know exactly what you are trying.
According to this poll it's 50/50 for leftists so way more common than it should be. 98 percent of Republicans and 90 percent of independentsv oppose this garbage.
I mean 80% could be in favor of child abuse doesn’t mean it should be legal.
Why is it not 100 percent. This is the kind of shit that makes book burning come back in style.
That’s a bit low.