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It wasn't the fact that it was an unmade that was captured. It was that BAM Connected itself to the Singers in an intrinsic way that wasn't what Nergaoul was doing.
We only really know a few things:
- She was deeply Connected to Roshar and the Singers
- She was on her way to challenging Odium
- She was imprisoned by Melishi
- She preceded the Recreance but was captured by the time it occurred
- The consequences of her being imprisoned in a gemstone when the Recreance happened resulted in the Singers losing their Identity and becoming parshmen
- Not all Singers were affected, the Listeners seemed to have escaped her influence before the Recreance occurred
- The Listeners intentionally refused forms of power, and it was likely this that saved them from becoming parshmen
I think there's a good chance that BAM was Odium's way of becoming Connected to Roshar and adding his rhythm to the true tones of Roshar. So the reason everything's broken is that his tone is present and integrated into the fabric of everything, but his conduit for that Connection was ripped away.
I think BAM is the spren of roshar. Her being unmade is how odium became native to roshar. It explains why the singers lost their forms with her capture.
I like the theory that the Unmade are the Sibling's, well, siblings. That originally there were 10 spren made for that purpose, not just one, but Odium unmade 9 of them. The Sibling specifically says the voidlight corruption used on them will Unmake them.
I like that! I saw a post earlier that was theorizing the Unmade corresponded to the cities on Roshar, so that is what had me thinking about the Unmade to start but something like that would explain why BAM is so much more powerful than the others to begin with.
Remember in RoW when Ishar tries to steal the bond between Dalinar and the Stormfather and Dalinar describes a tearing "as if his very soul was being ripped out." This caused the Stormfather to "scream, a terrifying agonized sound like lightning that warped and broke." So think of something with that kind of bond, but on a population level. I know that Singers' forms of power aren't exactly the same as a Nahel bond, but I think they are similar enough that the comparison to bond ripping is apt.
Nergaoul wasn't Connected like that to people.
I am re-reading RoW at the moment and read a Sibling & Navani chapter yesterday - the Sibling said that they lost the ability to make Towerlight as a result of no longer being able to hear the Pure Tones of Roshar.
My suspicion is that the method Kelek and Co used to capture BAM somehow disrupted the Connection of the Pure Tones to Roshar directly, rather than just BAMs influence on the Singers.
Yes! That's what I was thinking of! I assume that Nergaoul is also Connected to the Pure Tones, not to mention Ishar says he "dealt with" an Unmade that the Shin tried to worship. Obviously we don't know if that's even true let alone if he also captured it but assuming it's true and he also captured that one, some real messed up stuff is probably going on with the Pure Tones.
The Thrill was noted to be country wide at its max whereas BAM was able to empower the singers across Roshar at the same time. They're different levels tbh, mostly probably coming down to sapience.
Something worth noting is that the Unmade's name is kinda literal. They were powerful entities that Odium corrupted for his benefit. Its not yet been revealed what they were before being unmade, but its possible some of them were important parts of Roshar and still maintained that functionality after being corrupted.
I've thought about that as well! My best guess is that Nergaoul had already moved to the Shattered Plains, following the Alethi by the time that Kaladin started fighting. And by the time he was fighting near Nergaoul he had already bonded Syl so was kinda immune.
Yeah but it definitely was weaker. Like he was able to easily snap out of it and he even had to focus to let the Thrill take him. Even just when he started having the visions he wasn't really feeling the Thrill.
I guess that’s one way to look at it. I always thought his new found resistance to it was due to his life experience and wisdom. I guess it could have been his bond with the Stormfather.
This way of thinking got me to how he remembered his wife. He earned the boon he asked for kinda naturally over time so the deal he made with cultivation/the nightwatcher became null. If there is another reason for this let me know.
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It wasn't the fact that it was an unmade that was captured. It was that BAM Connected itself to the Singers in an intrinsic way that wasn't what Nergaoul was doing.
But didn't someone (possibly Kalak can't remember where exactly) say that it had consequences for all of Roshar, not just the Singers?
Considering that it also effected the Spren BAM may have Connected to Roshar itself somehow. RN there's a bit too much unknown about the specififcs.
We only really know a few things: - She was deeply Connected to Roshar and the Singers - She was on her way to challenging Odium - She was imprisoned by Melishi - She preceded the Recreance but was captured by the time it occurred - The consequences of her being imprisoned in a gemstone when the Recreance happened resulted in the Singers losing their Identity and becoming parshmen - Not all Singers were affected, the Listeners seemed to have escaped her influence before the Recreance occurred - The Listeners intentionally refused forms of power, and it was likely this that saved them from becoming parshmen
I think there's a good chance that BAM was Odium's way of becoming Connected to Roshar and adding his rhythm to the true tones of Roshar. So the reason everything's broken is that his tone is present and integrated into the fabric of everything, but his conduit for that Connection was ripped away.
I think BAM is the spren of roshar. Her being unmade is how odium became native to roshar. It explains why the singers lost their forms with her capture.
I like the theory that the Unmade are the Sibling's, well, siblings. That originally there were 10 spren made for that purpose, not just one, but Odium unmade 9 of them. The Sibling specifically says the voidlight corruption used on them will Unmake them.
I like that! I saw a post earlier that was theorizing the Unmade corresponded to the cities on Roshar, so that is what had me thinking about the Unmade to start but something like that would explain why BAM is so much more powerful than the others to begin with.
Remember in RoW when Ishar tries to steal the bond between Dalinar and the Stormfather and Dalinar describes a tearing "as if his very soul was being ripped out." This caused the Stormfather to "scream, a terrifying agonized sound like lightning that warped and broke." So think of something with that kind of bond, but on a population level. I know that Singers' forms of power aren't exactly the same as a Nahel bond, but I think they are similar enough that the comparison to bond ripping is apt. Nergaoul wasn't Connected like that to people.
I am re-reading RoW at the moment and read a Sibling & Navani chapter yesterday - the Sibling said that they lost the ability to make Towerlight as a result of no longer being able to hear the Pure Tones of Roshar. My suspicion is that the method Kelek and Co used to capture BAM somehow disrupted the Connection of the Pure Tones to Roshar directly, rather than just BAMs influence on the Singers.
Yes! That's what I was thinking of! I assume that Nergaoul is also Connected to the Pure Tones, not to mention Ishar says he "dealt with" an Unmade that the Shin tried to worship. Obviously we don't know if that's even true let alone if he also captured it but assuming it's true and he also captured that one, some real messed up stuff is probably going on with the Pure Tones.
The Thrill was noted to be country wide at its max whereas BAM was able to empower the singers across Roshar at the same time. They're different levels tbh, mostly probably coming down to sapience.
Something worth noting is that the Unmade's name is kinda literal. They were powerful entities that Odium corrupted for his benefit. Its not yet been revealed what they were before being unmade, but its possible some of them were important parts of Roshar and still maintained that functionality after being corrupted.
I personally subscribe to the theory that BAM is the spren of Roshar
On a side note regarding Nergaoul. Why does Kaladin never feel the Thrill, or did I miss it?
I've thought about that as well! My best guess is that Nergaoul had already moved to the Shattered Plains, following the Alethi by the time that Kaladin started fighting. And by the time he was fighting near Nergaoul he had already bonded Syl so was kinda immune.
But didn’t Dalinar still feel the thrill after bonding the stormfather. Or at least he felt the thrill trying to take him after making the bond.
Yeah, but Dalinar and the Thrill had a long relationship. Could have something to do with it
Yeah but it definitely was weaker. Like he was able to easily snap out of it and he even had to focus to let the Thrill take him. Even just when he started having the visions he wasn't really feeling the Thrill.
I guess that’s one way to look at it. I always thought his new found resistance to it was due to his life experience and wisdom. I guess it could have been his bond with the Stormfather. This way of thinking got me to how he remembered his wife. He earned the boon he asked for kinda naturally over time so the deal he made with cultivation/the nightwatcher became null. If there is another reason for this let me know.