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So I have a hot take. And my friends all think I’m crazy lol. Buuuuuttt.
My theory is about Cultivatuon. I think she’s the true big bad of SA Era 1. I think she’s been pulling the threads behind the scenes since way before honors death. She possibly set Honor up to die. She manipulated Dalinar, Odium, and Taravangian to get them where they are. Because she’s about cultivating. All about growth. Humans and even Parshendi grow through strife and change. And hard ship. Without it their societies stagnate.
Take for example >!Scadrial era 2!< they staggered in development because >!Harmony!< made it too easy for them.
Or for an example more related to Roshar. Soulcasting has stagnated their society. Why farm when you can turn things into grain? Why build when you can turn things into buildings. If they had enough soulcasters then they wouldn’t even need to have soldiers. Why fight when you can just turn them to bloody mist.
I don’t think Cultivation is really evil. I just think she’s rationalized this out and decided to go with it.
Anyway…. That’s my hot take lol. 🤷🏻♂️
I feel the same. She straight up admitted that she had planned for Taravangian to take up Odium and nudged events in that direction at the end of book 4, she's been playing both sides the whole time. She wants the others dead. After all, what better way to cultivate a field than by nourishing it with rotting corpses the way nature does?
I really don't think that the Cultivation is possibly the villain of arc 1 is really that wild of a theory. While I don't think we should make definitive statements on her intentions, I don't think it would be a huge shock if it was confirmed one way or another.
The way I understood it is that she was doing that to create an Odium capable of fighting his shards Intent. Hence the whole “capacity to stop what’s coming” boon that Taravangian was given by Cultivation.
I agree she is manipulating things, but I dont think it's for the reasons you think. I think she's setting up Roshar to be in the strongest position for when the seemingly inevitable conflict with the Scadrians comes, and thinks Rayse (who she hated for killing her lover) was too weak to do what needed to be done
Remember in Oathbringer when >!Dalinar opens Honors perpendicularity, "I am unity" part? Odium says "no, we killed you! We killed you!" Who the fuck is WE?? Odium had help killing Honor. !<
Oooo that's an interesting point about development stagnation. If she saw that as a problem because of Honor or Odium then she would absolutely find a way to fix it.
>Because she’s about cultivating. All about growth. Humans and even Parshendi grow through strife and change. And hard ship. Without it their societies stagnate.
Hmm. So.. Cultivation is like the Shadows in B5? Interesting.
I see this too. I've been listening to a bunch of theories on YouTube and I noticed that everyone I watched skipped over the possibility of cultivation being the messy one. When she revealed herself to ToDium, it struck me as odd because she plays her cards much closer to her chest. Rayse had become predictable and the war was like a loop in time. Sure, Taln gave them so much time to rebuild, but without her molding and pruning some of the key players, we wouldn't have this board of players that could turn things around.
I wonder if she's setting things up to have Lift take up all 3 shards. That would be interesting.
but… because of the desolations their technology basically reset several times. Some conflict definitely pushed them to do some things, but the level of conflict the desolations cause pushed back industry a LOT
I agree. I believe this is where not trusting anyone that claims to see the future comes from.
The death rattle "All is withdrawn for me. I stand against the one who saved my life. I protect the one who killed my promises. I raise my hand. The storm responds."
- It's commonly thought to reference Kaladin, but I think it's Dalanar. Cultivation saved his life, and if she's the big bad, he could stand against her and is bonded to the Storm Father, so it's not out of the question that the storm could respond to him.
"So the night will reign, for the choice of honor is life..." is another death rattle that turns my gut to Cultivation. Night reigning...Night Watcher..maybe something there? Feels like it anyway.
-The act of cultivation requires cycles. The cycles of the desolations to me represent growing cycles/seasons.
-she sends the people she influences out into the world like a weed or a non native plant. They take root and thrive, all while taking over whatever environment they find themselves in.
And finally- The Shin worship rock. A strange thing that. You know what you cannot do on rock? Cultivate.
Syladin Theory
1. Dalinar enters the contest of champions and realizes he is going to lose.
2. Dalinar says the words and Ascends again temporarily.
3. Dalinar realizes that “Honor is not dead so long as he lives in the hearts of men” is literal. There are tiny pieces of Honor in every human on Roshar. I’ve realized in my re-read of TWoK that there are many references to Honor residing in humanity.
4. Dalinar reaches out and BINDs these pieces, reforging the shard of Honor while he has Ascended. But there must be someone to bear the shard. It can’t be Dalinar, he’s going to lose
5. Who better than the Son of Tanavast himself?
6. During this time, Kaladin swears his 5th ideal bringing himself into alignment with the Shard’s intent. Syl has also grown into herself, as hinted in Kal’s SLA5 reading.
7. As his last act, Dalinar binds Kaladin and Syl (herself a piece of Honor) to the Shard and they collectively Ascend to shard hood.
8. They will spend eternity together, never having to be the one that survives the other, which is both of their greatest fears.
9. Bonus: as Kaladin ascends he says to Dalinar “Honor is dead but I’ll see what I can do.”
This is BRILLIANT. I'm a huge believer in Syl becoming Honor and Kaladin being her storm (Stormblessed), but your idea of Kal and Syl Ascending together would be an equally satisfying narrative.
EDIT: I agree the Hearts of Men are the solution to the problem, but I've never figured out a narrative way to use the hearts of men without it seeming like a retelling of what Preservation did. I think the Hearts of Men might be a metaphor for the people BELIEVING in Honor again. Because according to Realmatic Theory, if people think Honor exists, he will. They believe in Stormblessed.
I’m not sure if the relationship between faith and existence applies to Shards. Spren are reflections of cognitions, that’s true. But a Shard is not a spren. But that’s pretty much irrelevant, just wondering here.
I don't believe a spren could become a Shard since they are technically a fragment of that Shard to begin with. It would be like a drop trying to command the ocean - it would just be absorbed.
I could see Syl becoming the storm, however. A lot of emphasis was placed, at least in the early books, on how much she enjoys flying in the highstorms.
References to support this theory:
WoK - 2 or 3 times mentions the Almighty dwelling in men or dwelling in the hearts of men.
WoR, ch 41, Scars: Syl tells Kaladin Honor is dead but “he lives on in men, and in me.”
WoR epilogue Wit “You’ll find God in the same place that you find salvation, inside the hearts of men.”
OB, ch 10, distractions: the entire discussion about Syl being a mother and teaching spren to fly.
OB, ch 57 Passion: Rayse says he cannot leave behind the “splinters of Honor” as he once thought he could. “I can already see that going wrong.” Maybe he sees them binding him? Or bonding back to each other? Is he talking about spren or about other splinters? hearts of men?
OB, ch 64 Binder of Gods: Dalinar’s ability is connection, of joining men, worlds, minds, souls.
The hearts of men is something the shards can't see, and therefore, can't predict. Thematically, it's a perfect place for Honor to "hide" and wait to be reforged (or whatever Tanavast's plan was).
RoW, ch 115, Broken Gods: TOdium and Cultivation are chatting... "They showed you this possibility, I assume,” Taravangian said, looking at infinity. “But this isn’t nearly as … certain as I imagined it. It shows you things that can happen, but not the hearts of those who act."
>but not the hearts of those who act."
Oooh I love that, because it also feels like Cultivation just secretly taunting TOdium with her foresight being the strongest.
She'd be literally *telling* him how they're going to beat him.
This is totally in line with my theory. I love your take!
In mine, I posit that Kaladin brings Ishar back from Shinovar and he is present, perhaps subdued somehow, at the contest of champions. Dalinar loses. As Odium is Unmaking him and the Stormfather through their Connection, Kaladin swears the Fifth Ideal. The Stormfather, weak and beaten, in his final act utters, "These...words...are...ACCEPTED!" Kaladin explodes with light and all that. The swearing of such an oath brings Ishar to full clarity and he begins to re-bind Honor. Perhaps Odium/Unmade Dalinar kills him or the binding process does it but I don't see Ishar making it past this book. Kaladin, being of the Fifth Ideal and "Son of Tanavast", takes up the Shard. Syl, the Ancient Daughter and one of the Stormfather's first children, takes up her father's mantle becoming the Stormmother.
I haven't seen many other people talk about the "Son of Tanavast" thing with Kal. Plenty of people are called "son of Honor" but only Kaladin gets related directly to Tanavast, it's *way* to big of a chunk of foreshadowing, especially when you tie in the bit from Sunlit Man where >!Sig wonders if the being Connecting to him is Kaladin, decades or possibly even centuries after the events of Stormlight. Only way Kal would be that powerful and live that long is if he became shard/dawnshard levels of invested.!<
>I haven't seen many other people talk about the "Son of Tanavast" thing with Kal. Plenty of people are called "son of Honor" but only Kaladin gets related directly to Tanavast, it's way to big of a chunk of foreshadowing
I've seen it a bunch but agree that it has to mean something. He's obviously not his biological son though right so what actually makes him Son of Tanavast? Like, I get that that would make sense for him to then be the one to ascend, but does the fact itself mean something? If (hopefully) so, what?
I feel like it means his oaths, ideals, and actions are more or less in line with the ideals Tanavast held when he was the shard of Honor, making Kaladin the rightful heir to Tanavast's power and place in the cosmere. My guess is that Wind and Truth will show Dalinar realize but he *isn't* the hero, and he will use(and perhaps sacrifice) his powers to fully Connect Kaladin to Honor, much like the way Kelsier used the orb to Connect to Preservation so he could then pass it on to Vin through his Connection with her.
I'm talking about the conversation he has with Hoid after getting to Beacon.
"Worried that he was going mad. Yet desperate to know. Could it… “Kal?” he asked into the storm. The figure turned, revealing a hawkish face and an eminently punchable grin."
Addendum: upon further review, u rite. But also, he still wondered if Kal was able to connect to him from an entirely different planet, that's the sort of thing a Shard does, not a regular man(even a storming Bridgeboy).
Yes, it’s a combination we haven’t seen before and I think Brandon could explore what it would mean to have two vessels. I also think it would be a great way to sort of clear the field. Dalinar is removed from the good side. Kaladin and Syl can’t appear as they have anymore. But none of them are technically dead.
This is an awesome theory, but didn't Sando claim that it would be impossible (or very nearly impossible) to restore a shard using his power??
Edit: My bad, the WoB was about reuniting the Shards to reform Adonalsium, so never mind me.
The Fifth Ideal will be something almost insurmountable. “I accept that I must sacrifice others to protect myself” or something completely against who Kaladin is.
yea.
our lil boy kal has been sacrificibg himself so much to protect others in all 4 books so far that i honestly believe the last ideal will be "i will put myself first" or something along those lines.
if he is unfit to protect people he cant protect anyone and him realising that sometimes he needs to put _himself_ first could be a _big_ realisation imo
So I’m currently on a TWOK reread and so far all of Kaladin’s ideals have been lessons Lirin taught to him as part of his surgeon training. I’m thinking it’ll be “I am worthy of protection”
I agree with the insurmountability, but from the dialogue with Nale we know that the 5th is about "*becoming the law*" for the Skybreakers. I would assume that the Windrunners would have something like becoming the embodiment of those who protect.
I disagree. There’s a ton of variance among orders in how ideals or even the Words work, I expect basically no consistency among them as far as the 5th ideal is concerned. It would also be way cooler if they were all different.
I still think there's something fishy going on with Honor's and Odium's numbers. Supposedly Honor's "number" is 10 and Odium's "number" is 9, however:
* (Honor) There were originally 9 surges, but Honor added a 10th
* (Honor) Taln was originally not supposed to be a Herald, so again 9 Heralds with a 10th added
* (Odium) There are 10 levels of voidbinding (when you might expect 9 if it's Odium's magic), according to the Ars Arcanum: https://coppermind.net/wiki/Voidbinding. Note that the Fused are not Voidbinding. Voidbinding is completely different from the Surges we've seen, and is more related to Renarin's visions somehow: https://wob.coppermind.net/events/176-oathbringer-chicago-signing/#e8461
Something got swapped somewhere. I don't know what, and I don't know the significance, but I think somehow Odium's original "number" was 10 and Honor's original "number" was 9
I'm fucking telling you guys Danlan is the Kandra.
It's not going to be a spotlight character as that would distract from the whole narrative.
It's the royal family's communications officer with spikes in her hair that seems to be in on every conspiracy and is pretending to be a bimbo.
Plus Taravangian mentioned her by name when disbanding the Diagram, either because she was actually impactful within the organisation or as a point by brandon to remind the reader of her existence.
"I will accept that not everyone needs my protection."
Dude has been mother-henning his men for what is now literal years. He needs to learn to accept that he has given them the tools, and whether or not he has the power to protect them from everything, he doesn't have the duty.
I'm of the opinion that all oaths kaladin will make have been heavily foreshadowed by Lirin. As much as I despise the man as a father, he has done so for the first 4.
Maybe something about choosing what's worth protecting, or choosing between things to protect? There are those you can't protect was already foreshadowed by the girl that Kaladin tried to treat but died, choosing to let the son die while he saved Roshone might be the foreshadowing for the final oath.
Mmm maybe, but I feel like that’s covered by the 4th ideal, accepting that there are those he cannot protect.
I personally think it’ll be something to do with himself, like the original comment suggested - “I accept that I need protection” or “I accept that I deserve to be protected”. It may also be the classic oxygen mask principle of “I must first protect myself in order to protect others” or something similar. We’ve seen so much of Kal’s journey in terms of learning what he’s capable of, and learning to love and trust others despite loss; but the one thing that he hasn’t been able to accept, because it’s such a fundamental part of his identity and his internal narrative, is that he is fundamentally good and deserving of love and protection. Like, even after the 4th ideal where he released so much of the guilt he held over the people he’d lost, he immediately focused on finding ways to take care of other people because he feels like that’s the only thing that makes him worthy. I think his remaining struggle is going to be with himself more than anything or anyone else.
I also like the theory that someone else mentioned that it’s related to Lirin’s view on violence, and Kal needing to stop fighting - which kinda goes along with what I said above about Kal accepting that he needs help too. Like, by putting down the sword and learning to help others with their mental health, he will learn that he too needs and deserves help, and that’s okay, and it doesn’t make him any less worthy of being a knight radiant.
I think Kal retiring at the end of book 5 for his and others mental health, then book 9 or 10 being called back for 1 last mission would work well. The only problem is I thought of it, and Brandon always surprises me, even though the finale is apparently told to us in the first 2 books. Lol.
Now that I think about it, along these lines, the last oath probably has to also find some harmony between their views on violence and will probably tie into whether Lirin should have let Roshone die on the table. So, thematically, I think it will probably also have something to do with pacifism vs violence.
Up to this point I've avoided the speculation, but your point is just so intriguing that I can't help myself.
Fourth ideal is accepting that you might fail. My idea of the fifth is that sometimes you don't need to try. If anything, I'd say it's a corollary to the second. "I will protect those who cannot protect themselves." Once they can protect themselves, it's not really your job anymore.
I feel like it could be something like, "I accept that people need protection from themseleves." Or "I will protect others without violence."
Something that leads him down the mental health path. He's too deadly for the Cosmere, any fight he's in and unchained we expect him to win and it'd be boring for his character arc if he just keeps whooping ass, imo at least.
This would be lit. Shallan “causing the desolation” would be even more direct bc instead of it being from killing her mother, it would be she herself…???
The Shin have all the missing shardblades.
I say “missing” because there’s less than a hundred accounted for on modern Roshar. Per ROW there were 2000 honorspren alone bonded at the Recreance. Even if Windrunners were the largest order by far that’s still thousands and thousands of blades that are awol.
The Shin have an enforced cultural norm of servitude for anyone that wields a blade, which would be a clever way controlling a large contingent of shardbearers. We also know it’s forbidden for the Shin to sell their warriors to outsiders, which make sense if those warriors have shardblades.
They also have the means to pick up all the blades. We know they repeatedly invaded the rest of Roshar, but didn’t seem to try to hold territory. Maybe those “invasions” were more crusades to acquire more blades. They clearly see themselves as the only safe keepers of the honorblades, why not the rest of the shards.
A reveal like that also works on a thematic level. From Szeth it seems like the Shin consider fighters basically human deadeyes, who have no right to make decisions. Like imagine a Shin soldier who’s relearning how to be a person alongside their deadeye blade. It also just feels like a Sanderson move, Shinovar has been so secretive there’s got to be another layer to what they’re hiding behind just the other honorblades.
this is somewhat hinted in rysn's shinovar interlude in TWoK - they see shin soldiers (lowest and most numerous caste) but they aren't carrying weapons.
Yeah! Shin warriors are basically defined by the fact that they have weapons. Anyone who picks up a weapon automatically becomes a warrior. Yet when we finally see the soldiers they’re conspicuously unarmed.
I think that shallan will absorb radiant and remember that she worked with the ghostbloods when she was a child, and that when her mother said "she is one of them", she said it about shallan being a ghostblood. I also think she would meet with thaidakar
Pretty sure that she was just referring to Shallan's Radiance, given that other heralds also thought (whether true or not) that this would begin the process of the desolations.
Yeah, Ishar said this to all Heralds, and since they all looked up to him as "the last who retained his wisdom", and even before that he was even the one who forged the Oathpact, so pretty much everybody started killing off upcoming Radiants if encountered.
I believe Brandon said that someone could theoretically bond Thaidakar like a spren, and if the Knights Radiance can get off Roshar, he should be able to do something similar.
I also like the idea of the Order of the Survivor, lol.
My crackpot theory is that Todium will win and Dalinar will have to go over to his side. The second half of the books will start off dealing with the fallout and consequences of this, 5 years later, and Dalinar will have to be defeated
It's in the name itself, Blackthorn. That's menacing as hell. Him being a Silver Surfer character, conquering on Odium behalf. Plus I believe Sanderson has an affinity for Lawful evil characters
I think the conflict with Odium will be over by the end of the book - the Shard left in a very different state (splintered or merged), Taravangian and Dalinar both dead. But the plot of Stormlight will continue because as it’ll turn out either Cultivation isn’t that benevolent (she did make Todium happen after all) or whatever happens with Odium will turn out not to resolve the conflict between the various human/singer factions.
He’s not a one book villain though! He’s been a villain for all four books so far. In book 1, it turned out he was running the death hospitals and was causing worldwide strife with Szeth. Book 2 he sent Szeth against Dalinar twice. Book 3 he led the betrayal that almost destroyed the coalition and almost gave Odium victory at the battle of Thaylen field , book 4 he betrayed them AGAIN and helped Odium take Urithiru. He’s still a villain in book 5, now with even more power, but even if he gets killed in the next book he won’t have been a one book villain!
I tend to agree with this. TOdium has been set up from the beginning by Cultivation, and I think I'm starting to see why she needed someone else to hold the Shard.
Rayse was too knowledgeable, too careful, with his Shard and how he used it. Cultivation's endgame for SA Era 1 is the shattering of Odium, because the Shard is problematic in the short term, and devastating in the long term to any plans she has to Cultivate things. She needed to set up Rayse such that he lost control of the Shard to someone who is both unfamiliar enough with the Power and bold enough to risk it being destroyed. To add to this, a big change and growth for the Shard of Odium itself would be to be shattered, sown like seeds, and given an opportunity to grow.
I think that BAM will end up leading the singers after this shattering, and that she will end up being the primary antagonist for most of SA era 2.
That sounds cool but I feel like it would have to give him a whole lot of development in the fifth book. Without that, it could easily feel very much like a Deus Ex Machina. After all, not everyone has/will read Warbreaker.
Yeah I could definitely see this happening in the second half of the series as by then presumably, as Mistborn era 2 has shown, the cosmere is going to be more and more involved and intertwined, and so it would be more acceptable. First half can stand alone, second half really benefits from more context.
The whole "sun setting" in shadesmar theory resulting in the darkness and no more stormlight after Odium wins. Leads us into SA6 (Lift) who will now be the only notable character with powers since she uses cultivations light. It's a bit of a mishmash, and I'm not sure how it actually goes down, but those are definitely "crack pot" theories I hardly see discussed that I'm nearly certain we'll see.
Everything on Roshar is adapted to stormlight and would die without it, though. Like epidemics are practically unknown because of it, plants and animals need it, etc.
Also, even apart from that, the Sibling can produce a Light that is a mixture of Honor and Cultivation, and as such usable by the Radiants.
That fits in with Aux calling himself a Knight in TSM. Maybe Maya learns to be more of a Spren, like in that book.
It also fits a bit in with the theory that Adolin doesn't become Radiant but ends up with some of those abilities. Notice how he was always able to throw his Shardblade, and Moash was trying to figure out how to do it with Jezrien's blade. So Maya has already been different from pretty much every Deadeye and Nahel Bonded Spren we've seen. Why not see her return by not quite with the Nahel Bond, but something more than a Deadeye.
Lift is a Kandra. A Kandra who didn't want to be forced by Harmony to go and be someone else. So she went to Cultivation and asked "when everything is going wrong I want to remain myself". Cultivation took out one spike and grafted some of her own power, making her independent but also able to consume life light. Her memories were also pruned so she only remembers her current identity, of a little girl with a loving mom. She might somehow be part human or singer in that transformation.
For extra cremminess, there's one Kandra we know of that disappeared for a while and returned with one of her spikes plus a corrupted one made from some odd metal. Yes that's right, she went to Roshar, petitioned Cultivation, who split her in two, one side with her Scadrial memories and the corrupted spike and the other a newborn with a connection to Cultivation. The newborn grew up loving her "mother" who ended up going insane and going back to Scadrial for revenge, traumatizing her daughter who was left behind.
That's right, Lift is Wax's daughter 🤪
That is very plausible, but I think it's more likely he is The Villain™ in the context of the Cosmere as a whole, and we won't see that side of him in WaT.
I'm almost convinced the finale of the Cosmere saga will be a battle between Hoid and Kelsier, but I'm not sure who will be the "good" guy in it.
I think the dead Shardblades will be revived…through Enlightenment.
Their problem is that a portion of their being was severed with their Bond. Replace that power! Then there would be a lot of people like Renarin, but for every order. Wonder what an Enlightened Inkspren is like? An Enlightened Windrunner?
I'm pretty confident it's going to wrap up several of the small scale storylines but abort many others with a cataclysmic event that will be a gigantic cliffhanger that raises far more questions than it answers to set up the next 5 books but mostly the readers are going to be very confused
>!and it will make everyone say "wat"!<
The unmade are the souls of the heralds. This separation of soul and body is what allowed them to persist though what should have been death, and corruption of the unmade is what truely gave them their madness
I have a theory that shallan is and always has been a spy for the ghostbloods. I think she doesn't remember that anymore because I think she is a kandra who has gotten so into the role that they forgot who they were. I think that the formless identity they have is that.
The kandra part is an interesting twist, but I don't think a kandra would be quite as traumatized about any people as Shallan is.
She's 100% a Ghostblood plant and always has been the "broken Davar soulcaster" for sure, though. Definitely agree with that.
Why use a good twist once when you can use it twice. This is... a beautiful theory.
The dynamics of the Davar family are going to be super important. The mining of white stone they do, the possible herald mother, the Ghostblood interactions, the Skybreaker meddling, the Amaram-recruited...
Either we see more Shallan flashbacks to get to the root of it, or someone else who was around at the time is going to be the flashback character for a book. Ash, maybe?
Mraize even said it in Words of Radiance.
"Your family, however, does owe me a debt. One Soulcaster. Broken. How convenient that you, by my estimations, are one, little knife."
This. The duel isn't a fight, it's a moral quandary.
Dalinar's final act as a man is to not put the ends before the means, and then he will pivot to being the scariest villain in the cosmere when he becomes odium's general.
It's almost like Taravangian and Dalinar had several discussions about leaders having to make hard choices and doing what is best for their people, even if it's morally abhorrent.
I just think people are building up the duel to be a huge fight when it's almost guaranteed to not be that. Dalinar can't use a shardblade, so even if it is an actual sword fight, all Odium has to do is give his champion a shardblade and it's over.
This gains odium almost nothing except one more soldier. I'm of the opinion Todium is going for a tie as Wit foreshadowed. It's the only way Todium gets what he really wants, freedom. Win and he is stuck, lose and he is stuck. A tie however is the only way to win a rigged game.
Adolin will become an antagonist (not bad guy) against his father (continuing on from RoW) and the knights radiant (for the same reason Maya once chose the recreance) and end up duelling his father as Odium’s champion.
He is upset and somewhat angry, but Adolin is to good a guy and focused on helping people. Also restoring all the blades.
More than pretty much any theory, I hate this.
"I'm upset because my dad isn't exactly who I thought he was, so I'm gonna turn against the whole planet..." fuck no.
I'd rather see Dalinar lose, kaladin die and Todium go free, than Adolin just become some bad guy, it feels dumb.
Moash, now blind and unable to fight, is used by Todium as bait to get Gavinor to become Odium's champion whic forces Dalinar to choose between a child and Roshar.
Moash, bereft of Odium's Copium tries to kill himself only to be saved at the last moment by Kaladin, who orders him to live. Thus starting his long road to a redemption arc in the back half of Stormlight Archives.
That top part is probably the only way that I think the Gavinor Champion theory will work. But I think Moash will be killed by Gavinor, or at least by Odium in exchange for him being the champion.
Yes! This is *exactly* it.
People constantly say ‘but the champion has to be willing’ as an argument for why Gavinor wouldn’t be the champion, ignoring that we know exactly one thing about him, he wants to kill Moash.
I feel crazy when people say there is no good evidence for it.
He might also sweeten the deal by pointing out Jasnah's goal of restricting the monarchy, "they let your dad go fight and are now trying to erase what he died for, but I can give you his killer and restore your throne". Moash would probably still be the primary bargaining chip though.
(Course, if Taravangian conditions this on Gavinor *winning* the fight then he probably won't have to go through with anything he promises anyway, since there's no shot a five-year-old child is killing the Blackthorn. The true goal would be forcing Dalinar back to the bargaining table, but Gav doesn't need to know that part.)
- Shallan is a Kandra
- Shallan worked with the Ghostbloods prior to SA/when she was younger if she isn’t a Kandra
- suckling child death rattle + “and so the night shall reign” death rattle are one sentence, and refer to Chana letting Shallan kill her
- TOdium dies/is shattered/is defeated/whatever because he breaks his oath to himself and harms someone from Kharbranth
Ba-Ado-Mishram used to be a greater spren, like the Stormfather, which was created by Adonalsium itself and was on Roshar long before Honor and Cultivation came. When The war broke out she sided with Odium, due to the fact that she sees humans as alien, since Adonalsium didnt intend for them to live on Roshar, the planet was meant for the singers.
She isnt evil, she is just doing what her creator asked of her: Look after the singers and the planet and protect it from the evil people
Ok, I have a few. In no particular order:
Mraize has a Connector spike, which explains him easily worming himself into people's confidence, despite being a pretty bad actor, according to Shallan, and not having time to gain people's trust normally, because he has too many irons in the fire and too many places to be. Also, that's why his Aviar occasions no comment even in wildly inappropriate situations, like when he was playing Ialai's trusted bodyguard! And after spiking Gereh in RoW he likely has another power as well, + whatever the Aviar provides him.
Liss the assassin is Herald Vedel. Killing for hire is an inversion of her Divine Attributes and her Body Focus is the eyes, which is why she removes them from her victims. Liss also looks to be of mixed ethnicity, like most of the Heralds do and she was subtly mocking Jasnah during their conversation.
Shallan's mother was the first Ghostblood in the family and trained Shallan to be an operative for them, which is why Mraize was so sure that Veil was "the real Shallan" and also why inventing Veil got Shallan some genuine skills. Shallan attracting Testament must have been a real coup for Lady Davar, but at some point Shallan refused to go on with the program. Her attack on her daughter was an attempt to provoke a demonstration of recalcitrant Shallan's powers and value to a Ghostblood associate, who was the male "friend" present at the scene. It was a tragic misunderstanding.
We know from Pattern that Mraize's letter explaining what happened contained some lies. Well, blaming it all on the Skybreakers fits! There was also a strong hint when Shallan performed "The Girl Who Looked Up" for Pattern in OB that the happy childhood pre-bonding had been another fabrication. And, of course, there is the memory of a young Shallan using a Seon.
Iriali came to Roshar at some point after Aharietam, when large parts of it were depopulated. They don't appear in a single one of Dalinar's visions and it makes no sense for them to have been stuck on one planet for so long, particularly in recurring apocalyptic conditions. They sided with Odium in SA because their rulers already knew that time for the next exodus was close, so they did just enough for him, so he would leave them alone and not interfere. The singers were getting all of the country back, so win-win. I had this theory after reading OB, long before the certain Interlude sneak peak became available. They will be next seen on Scadrial, having settled in one of the many unexplored regions, with natives being none the wiser until some expedition discovers them. There was already a hint of them in TLM, but not of a country's worth of population. Thankfully, Scadrial has plenty of uninhabited space.
If Kaladin doesn't Ascend to Honor in WaT, he will replace Dalinar as a Bondsmith. There have been plenty of special interactions between him and the Stormfather, and his trajectory away from the battlefield mirrors Dalinar's. Syl will either share him with Daddy or die.
Another old theory of mine, since WoR or OB is that Tanavast's cognitive shadow has full independent personality, like all others except for Threnody's shades, but mostly hides behind Stormfather's consciousness. All the visions and interjections that the SF insists didn't come from him, were sent by Tanavast's CS. He also played Nohadon in the changed vision.
And he was the one talking to Gavilar in the WaT prologue. After this fiasco, he chose a more hands-off approach with Dalinar.
I mean it still wouldn't confirm it 100% for most people, but it would absolutely win me more followers in the great cordial gentlemen's battle to the death between myself and u/kelsierisgood
I seriously doubt that. Twinsoul’s remarks (and Brandon’s own comments) in TLM make it sound like the Roshar Ghostbloods are going a little rouge. But you can keep your deluded hopes.
That Todium won't be that bad.
I see Dalinar losing the contest, and having to serve Todium, however I also don't necessarily think Taravangian will be as straight up antagonistic as Rayse was. I don't see him being a hero or anything, but I could see him being good for roshar in the long run.
I have a whole note pad document of theories i think are plausible. But i will list the ones I find the most plausible:
Dalinar will lose the contest and become odium's evil commander against his will (just like how ruin controlled the inquisitors) blackthorn part 2
Ba-Ado-Mishram will be freed from her prison
Sixteen is Spook
The Unmade in Shinovar is Chemoarish and her effect might be something like making others no longer care about tradition or keeping records etc.
Odium's champion will be Gavinor
I mean I'm sure it's not very original but Todium wins in ALMOST every conceivable way. How else are they going to set up 5 more books, potentially leading to an all out shard war? Todium HAS to win in an impactful way. I'm sure the heroes will get some small victories that will lead to big things down the line (really love the idea of Kaladin ascending to the Honor shard) but I view this as the Infinity War of Stormlight, Todium wins and the follow up will be them picking up the pieces and the rest of the cosmere preparing for the larger war to come now that Todium is free of Roshar.
Along with many others, I see Cultivation as the master manipulator on Roshar. She's specifically set up at least three of the major players as pawns to manipulate exactly these events. But I don't think she's evil. I think she's terribly depressed. Cultivation wants to kill herself.
She loved Tanavast deeply. No matter how their relationship may have changed through the centuries, his death must have been devastating. They broke God together. Immortality was the least of their rewards.
I think she's planning to pass on her shard to a vessel she's been grooming. But, being Cultivation, she's got to make even her death an act of growth. She's been grooming her vessel not to take on just her shard, but all three shards on Roshar.
Dalinar is her vessel. He has been directly touched and influenced by Honor, Cultivation and Odium. He's shown outrageous growth and mastery of the most noble aspects of all three. His personal honor is unquestionable, and his passion is terrifying.
He will still fail.
But it's not his fault. Cultivation won't die in time. Her shard's influence betrays her, and she keeps trying to shape events until it's too late.
Dalinar says the words and ascends again, reuniting the shard of Honor and Slaying TOdium. He's a perfect vessel for both shards, and he becomes War.
I'm not sure how Cultivation ultimately dies. Maybe War kills her in his initial rage. Seizing Odium must be like the Thrill on divine steroids.
Lift takes the discarded Shard. She was always the backup, the hole card. Wyndle was asked specifically to bond with her. He's her bodyguard. That's why he's always trying to get her to avoid risks.
Somehow, in all this, Dalinar discovers the influence of the Ghostbloods. He hates it. He's dealing not only with Gods and mad magics, but now aliens!? He immediately declares war on Scadriel, home of Thaidakar.
Lift flees with Shallan and the Ghostbloods.
End of Era 1.
I agree with Dalinar becoming War. He's too honorable to not at least play a major role in reforging Honor, and he's definitely got the side of Odium too. Combine that with Navani's discovery of the Rhythms and in particular, of the Rhythm of War, and we have a recipe for an absolutely insane Vessel/Shard combination in Dalinar/War
It's a fear-expectation thing. We've seen a couple of ways now that spren can die with no meaningful consequences yet deriving from that.
It feels like the one thing left that can really hurt Kaladin, and I do buy into him taking the honor shard, and I think maybe he may need to be without Syl for that.
I don't really have a unifying theory of why or how, it just feels like a story beat that is inevitable to me.
I don't think the Maya arc is mostly over. It barely started. She showed the first few glimpses of lucidity but I really doubt she will gain full consciousness in less than 10 days. And even if that was the case it would be an extremely unsatisfying end to his arc, as he in your prediction just found out deadeys can be revived, possibly forming something like a reverse Nahel bond just to die shortly after, making this achievement completely useless.
Also I really don't see how Adolins death would be good for Shallans mental health lmao. That's Insane.
And how would Dalinar become odiums champion that doesn't make sense at all. Especially given that he resisted exactly that already in OB.
If he becomes champion I doubt he will die.
I think todium wins and binds dalinar to his will and begins an age of Cold War on Roshar, but at the end of book ten he reforges honor and becomes its new vessel
Spoilers for Yumi >!When Hoid was describing Design, he said that her body was not real, as "we all sort of learned our lesson on that", which leads me to believe that Ishar's experiments ultimately failed. Of course, B-money intentionally phrased it vaguely, so it's possible there was another reason for Hoid to say that!<
I've had the theory for awhile now that they'll find Ba-Ado-Mishram at Akinah. After sealing her, the radiants gave her to the Sleepless to hide, so they put her with the Dawnshard since they already planned on no one ever finding it. It answers a question that's bugged me since Dawnshard came out; where did the stormlight come from in the cave?
They're in a cave underwater, so no stormlight is coming in from the Highstorm, but they find enough light gems to infuse a set of Shardplate. We know Mishram was able to generate voidlight, so it's not a stretch that she might be able to create stormlight as well (maybe a carryover from before being unmade).
Even more telling, there's a corridor leading further in to the cave, one with light coming from further down, that we never see them explore. It would be odd to add that in without exploration unless it was foreshadowing something down the passage that we find later.
1. I haven't really crafted this into a good theory yet, but:
* BAM's capture is the cause for deadeyes, as well as the listener's Dull Form
* Adolin "fixing" Maya from being a deadeye is clearly part of his arc
* At the end of RoW, Shallan and Adolin set out to find BAM before the Ghostbloods
-> So Shallan and Adolin's arc in RoW is key in resolving both the deadeye spren issue and making peace between humans and listeners.
Or I guess what I'm trying to say is Shallan's BAM/Ghostblood arc and Adolin's Maya/deadeye arc are connected.
2. Sja-Anat is a double agent for Cultivation. It might be a translation thing, but the Sja-Anat pov chapters where she talks about the corrupted spren really gave me Cultivation-like vibes. So I guess she was originally a spren of Cultivation that was then unmade by Odium. We already know that tries to fight Odium, so she somehow remained loyal to Cultivation.
The Unmade are corrupted pieces of the Shard of Honor.
I feel as though the Thrill could have been Mercy, once, or perhaps the Heart of the Revel might have been Restraint, all of them splintered from Honor, and embodying different components of Honor, but twisted by Odium to his own Shard's whims. Maybe I just don't know enough to know why I'm wrong, though
1. Dalinar has already been chosen as Odium's champion.
2. Dalinar enters the duel of champions and loses/dies.
3. Kaladin kills him in said duel.
4. ???
5. Kaladin learns to mourn and move on.
Taln as Odium’s champion while wielding Nightblood (hopefully against Kaladin). I think there’s been too much foreshadowing of Taln as a god-tier fighter, and add to this that Kaladin keeps winning against people who have these unbelievable power-ups, I think the reader needs to see Odium with a champion that makes us think “as strong as Kaladin is, there’s just no way he can pull this off”.
There are other ways this could complete or move forward narrative arcs with interesting twists. Taln was never broken, he never gave up, Brandon even made that very clear in a WOB. We know that every other herald has, in a way, become the opposite of their ideals. For Taln to be Odium’s champion he would need to be broken or deceived in some way. We already know he’s kind of crazy, what if Nightblood were to come along saying “Would you like to destroy some evil today?” Could that sway Taln? And, finally, I think it’s so interesting that Nightblood was crafted based on either an honorblade or shardblade. What if it was crafted based on Taln’s honorblade? And since Taln’s honorblade is missing (another interesting detail), would he think that Nightblood is his own honorblade? Would he be more inclined to trust Nightblood, thus leading to his long-awaited break from Honor?
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So I have a hot take. And my friends all think I’m crazy lol. Buuuuuttt. My theory is about Cultivatuon. I think she’s the true big bad of SA Era 1. I think she’s been pulling the threads behind the scenes since way before honors death. She possibly set Honor up to die. She manipulated Dalinar, Odium, and Taravangian to get them where they are. Because she’s about cultivating. All about growth. Humans and even Parshendi grow through strife and change. And hard ship. Without it their societies stagnate. Take for example >!Scadrial era 2!< they staggered in development because >!Harmony!< made it too easy for them. Or for an example more related to Roshar. Soulcasting has stagnated their society. Why farm when you can turn things into grain? Why build when you can turn things into buildings. If they had enough soulcasters then they wouldn’t even need to have soldiers. Why fight when you can just turn them to bloody mist. I don’t think Cultivation is really evil. I just think she’s rationalized this out and decided to go with it. Anyway…. That’s my hot take lol. 🤷🏻♂️
I feel the same. She straight up admitted that she had planned for Taravangian to take up Odium and nudged events in that direction at the end of book 4, she's been playing both sides the whole time. She wants the others dead. After all, what better way to cultivate a field than by nourishing it with rotting corpses the way nature does?
Your comment validates me lol. Thank you lol. My “friends” said I was crazy.
Your friends need to read the end of book 4 again. She straight up admits she has been manipulating events to her advantage the whole time.
I really don't think that the Cultivation is possibly the villain of arc 1 is really that wild of a theory. While I don't think we should make definitive statements on her intentions, I don't think it would be a huge shock if it was confirmed one way or another.
I’m fully of the opinion that Gavilar was talking to Cultivation in the WAT prologue.
The way I understood it is that she was doing that to create an Odium capable of fighting his shards Intent. Hence the whole “capacity to stop what’s coming” boon that Taravangian was given by Cultivation.
I agree she is manipulating things, but I dont think it's for the reasons you think. I think she's setting up Roshar to be in the strongest position for when the seemingly inevitable conflict with the Scadrians comes, and thinks Rayse (who she hated for killing her lover) was too weak to do what needed to be done
Remember in Oathbringer when >!Dalinar opens Honors perpendicularity, "I am unity" part? Odium says "no, we killed you! We killed you!" Who the fuck is WE?? Odium had help killing Honor. !<
Oooo that's an interesting point about development stagnation. If she saw that as a problem because of Honor or Odium then she would absolutely find a way to fix it.
>Because she’s about cultivating. All about growth. Humans and even Parshendi grow through strife and change. And hard ship. Without it their societies stagnate. Hmm. So.. Cultivation is like the Shadows in B5? Interesting.
I see this too. I've been listening to a bunch of theories on YouTube and I noticed that everyone I watched skipped over the possibility of cultivation being the messy one. When she revealed herself to ToDium, it struck me as odd because she plays her cards much closer to her chest. Rayse had become predictable and the war was like a loop in time. Sure, Taln gave them so much time to rebuild, but without her molding and pruning some of the key players, we wouldn't have this board of players that could turn things around. I wonder if she's setting things up to have Lift take up all 3 shards. That would be interesting.
but… because of the desolations their technology basically reset several times. Some conflict definitely pushed them to do some things, but the level of conflict the desolations cause pushed back industry a LOT
So SA is just Dune? :P
[удалено]
I agree. I believe this is where not trusting anyone that claims to see the future comes from. The death rattle "All is withdrawn for me. I stand against the one who saved my life. I protect the one who killed my promises. I raise my hand. The storm responds." - It's commonly thought to reference Kaladin, but I think it's Dalanar. Cultivation saved his life, and if she's the big bad, he could stand against her and is bonded to the Storm Father, so it's not out of the question that the storm could respond to him. "So the night will reign, for the choice of honor is life..." is another death rattle that turns my gut to Cultivation. Night reigning...Night Watcher..maybe something there? Feels like it anyway. -The act of cultivation requires cycles. The cycles of the desolations to me represent growing cycles/seasons. -she sends the people she influences out into the world like a weed or a non native plant. They take root and thrive, all while taking over whatever environment they find themselves in. And finally- The Shin worship rock. A strange thing that. You know what you cannot do on rock? Cultivate.
Syladin Theory 1. Dalinar enters the contest of champions and realizes he is going to lose. 2. Dalinar says the words and Ascends again temporarily. 3. Dalinar realizes that “Honor is not dead so long as he lives in the hearts of men” is literal. There are tiny pieces of Honor in every human on Roshar. I’ve realized in my re-read of TWoK that there are many references to Honor residing in humanity. 4. Dalinar reaches out and BINDs these pieces, reforging the shard of Honor while he has Ascended. But there must be someone to bear the shard. It can’t be Dalinar, he’s going to lose 5. Who better than the Son of Tanavast himself? 6. During this time, Kaladin swears his 5th ideal bringing himself into alignment with the Shard’s intent. Syl has also grown into herself, as hinted in Kal’s SLA5 reading. 7. As his last act, Dalinar binds Kaladin and Syl (herself a piece of Honor) to the Shard and they collectively Ascend to shard hood. 8. They will spend eternity together, never having to be the one that survives the other, which is both of their greatest fears. 9. Bonus: as Kaladin ascends he says to Dalinar “Honor is dead but I’ll see what I can do.”
This is BRILLIANT. I'm a huge believer in Syl becoming Honor and Kaladin being her storm (Stormblessed), but your idea of Kal and Syl Ascending together would be an equally satisfying narrative. EDIT: I agree the Hearts of Men are the solution to the problem, but I've never figured out a narrative way to use the hearts of men without it seeming like a retelling of what Preservation did. I think the Hearts of Men might be a metaphor for the people BELIEVING in Honor again. Because according to Realmatic Theory, if people think Honor exists, he will. They believe in Stormblessed.
Any chance hearts of men refer to gem hearts aka holding stormlight? Since “men” were originally the parshmen maybe?
That does feel very Brandon Sanderson. Very much a "world *on* his arms" energy
Damn I really like the idea of a spren becoming a shard. Especially with Syl becoming more ‘human’ in RoW
I’m not sure if the relationship between faith and existence applies to Shards. Spren are reflections of cognitions, that’s true. But a Shard is not a spren. But that’s pretty much irrelevant, just wondering here.
I think Hearts of Men has to do with Nahel bonds and their interaction with spirit web
I don't believe a spren could become a Shard since they are technically a fragment of that Shard to begin with. It would be like a drop trying to command the ocean - it would just be absorbed. I could see Syl becoming the storm, however. A lot of emphasis was placed, at least in the early books, on how much she enjoys flying in the highstorms.
References to support this theory: WoK - 2 or 3 times mentions the Almighty dwelling in men or dwelling in the hearts of men. WoR, ch 41, Scars: Syl tells Kaladin Honor is dead but “he lives on in men, and in me.” WoR epilogue Wit “You’ll find God in the same place that you find salvation, inside the hearts of men.” OB, ch 10, distractions: the entire discussion about Syl being a mother and teaching spren to fly. OB, ch 57 Passion: Rayse says he cannot leave behind the “splinters of Honor” as he once thought he could. “I can already see that going wrong.” Maybe he sees them binding him? Or bonding back to each other? Is he talking about spren or about other splinters? hearts of men? OB, ch 64 Binder of Gods: Dalinar’s ability is connection, of joining men, worlds, minds, souls.
The hearts of men is something the shards can't see, and therefore, can't predict. Thematically, it's a perfect place for Honor to "hide" and wait to be reforged (or whatever Tanavast's plan was). RoW, ch 115, Broken Gods: TOdium and Cultivation are chatting... "They showed you this possibility, I assume,” Taravangian said, looking at infinity. “But this isn’t nearly as … certain as I imagined it. It shows you things that can happen, but not the hearts of those who act."
Ooh! I like that. I haven’t gotten to RoW yet in my reread
Thanks! I feel like I'm the only person to have noticed this line in the context of the Hearts of Men
>but not the hearts of those who act." Oooh I love that, because it also feels like Cultivation just secretly taunting TOdium with her foresight being the strongest. She'd be literally *telling* him how they're going to beat him.
This is totally in line with my theory. I love your take! In mine, I posit that Kaladin brings Ishar back from Shinovar and he is present, perhaps subdued somehow, at the contest of champions. Dalinar loses. As Odium is Unmaking him and the Stormfather through their Connection, Kaladin swears the Fifth Ideal. The Stormfather, weak and beaten, in his final act utters, "These...words...are...ACCEPTED!" Kaladin explodes with light and all that. The swearing of such an oath brings Ishar to full clarity and he begins to re-bind Honor. Perhaps Odium/Unmade Dalinar kills him or the binding process does it but I don't see Ishar making it past this book. Kaladin, being of the Fifth Ideal and "Son of Tanavast", takes up the Shard. Syl, the Ancient Daughter and one of the Stormfather's first children, takes up her father's mantle becoming the Stormmother.
Yes! I love the Stormmother theory.
“Honor lives” would do it for me.
I don’t know how it’ll happen, but I like the idea of Kaladin ascending to Honor over Dalinar.
I haven't seen many other people talk about the "Son of Tanavast" thing with Kal. Plenty of people are called "son of Honor" but only Kaladin gets related directly to Tanavast, it's *way* to big of a chunk of foreshadowing, especially when you tie in the bit from Sunlit Man where >!Sig wonders if the being Connecting to him is Kaladin, decades or possibly even centuries after the events of Stormlight. Only way Kal would be that powerful and live that long is if he became shard/dawnshard levels of invested.!<
>I haven't seen many other people talk about the "Son of Tanavast" thing with Kal. Plenty of people are called "son of Honor" but only Kaladin gets related directly to Tanavast, it's way to big of a chunk of foreshadowing I've seen it a bunch but agree that it has to mean something. He's obviously not his biological son though right so what actually makes him Son of Tanavast? Like, I get that that would make sense for him to then be the one to ascend, but does the fact itself mean something? If (hopefully) so, what?
I feel like it means his oaths, ideals, and actions are more or less in line with the ideals Tanavast held when he was the shard of Honor, making Kaladin the rightful heir to Tanavast's power and place in the cosmere. My guess is that Wind and Truth will show Dalinar realize but he *isn't* the hero, and he will use(and perhaps sacrifice) his powers to fully Connect Kaladin to Honor, much like the way Kelsier used the orb to Connect to Preservation so he could then pass it on to Vin through his Connection with her.
Wasn’t >!Sig!< thinking at the time he was hallucinating?
I'm talking about the conversation he has with Hoid after getting to Beacon. "Worried that he was going mad. Yet desperate to know. Could it… “Kal?” he asked into the storm. The figure turned, revealing a hawkish face and an eminently punchable grin." Addendum: upon further review, u rite. But also, he still wondered if Kal was able to connect to him from an entirely different planet, that's the sort of thing a Shard does, not a regular man(even a storming Bridgeboy).
In my opinion, his reaction is left ambiguous. I took it as support for my theory.
Okay, you cooked with this mate.
Nice and it's not some shipper theory, but they both won't be alone.
Thats a really interesting idea. We have someone holding two shards, so why not two people holding one?
Yes, it’s a combination we haven’t seen before and I think Brandon could explore what it would mean to have two vessels. I also think it would be a great way to sort of clear the field. Dalinar is removed from the good side. Kaladin and Syl can’t appear as they have anymore. But none of them are technically dead.
This makes way too much sense, damn
This is an awesome theory, but didn't Sando claim that it would be impossible (or very nearly impossible) to restore a shard using his power?? Edit: My bad, the WoB was about reuniting the Shards to reform Adonalsium, so never mind me.
The Fifth Ideal will be something almost insurmountable. “I accept that I must sacrifice others to protect myself” or something completely against who Kaladin is.
yea. our lil boy kal has been sacrificibg himself so much to protect others in all 4 books so far that i honestly believe the last ideal will be "i will put myself first" or something along those lines. if he is unfit to protect people he cant protect anyone and him realising that sometimes he needs to put _himself_ first could be a _big_ realisation imo
My theory is it will be something along the lines of "I will let others protect me", accepting he doesn't have to put everyone above himself.
Whatever is it’s going to be a huge curveball and not a freebie
So I’m currently on a TWOK reread and so far all of Kaladin’s ideals have been lessons Lirin taught to him as part of his surgeon training. I’m thinking it’ll be “I am worthy of protection”
I agree with the insurmountability, but from the dialogue with Nale we know that the 5th is about "*becoming the law*" for the Skybreakers. I would assume that the Windrunners would have something like becoming the embodiment of those who protect.
I disagree. There’s a ton of variance among orders in how ideals or even the Words work, I expect basically no consistency among them as far as the 5th ideal is concerned. It would also be way cooler if they were all different.
I still think there's something fishy going on with Honor's and Odium's numbers. Supposedly Honor's "number" is 10 and Odium's "number" is 9, however: * (Honor) There were originally 9 surges, but Honor added a 10th * (Honor) Taln was originally not supposed to be a Herald, so again 9 Heralds with a 10th added * (Odium) There are 10 levels of voidbinding (when you might expect 9 if it's Odium's magic), according to the Ars Arcanum: https://coppermind.net/wiki/Voidbinding. Note that the Fused are not Voidbinding. Voidbinding is completely different from the Surges we've seen, and is more related to Renarin's visions somehow: https://wob.coppermind.net/events/176-oathbringer-chicago-signing/#e8461 Something got swapped somewhere. I don't know what, and I don't know the significance, but I think somehow Odium's original "number" was 10 and Honor's original "number" was 9
I've got a mostly unsubstantiated crack theory that could relate here - somewhere along the line Tanavast and Rayse switched Shards.
Damn that's really good, but don't we already know that Wit didn't like Rayse being Odium from the beginning because of the letters?
I'm fucking telling you guys Danlan is the Kandra. It's not going to be a spotlight character as that would distract from the whole narrative. It's the royal family's communications officer with spikes in her hair that seems to be in on every conspiracy and is pretending to be a bimbo.
Also Danlin does sorta have a kandra voice when read by Kramer. I like this theory
Plus Taravangian mentioned her by name when disbanding the Diagram, either because she was actually impactful within the organisation or as a point by brandon to remind the reader of her existence.
I don’t even remember who that character is, so I actually find this theory very likely. lol. :)
See! Just like a Kandra!
i first read this as: Dalinar is the Kandra, and I was very intrigued
Kal will swear the Fifth Oath and it will be "I accept that others will protect me"
"I will accept that not everyone needs my protection." Dude has been mother-henning his men for what is now literal years. He needs to learn to accept that he has given them the tools, and whether or not he has the power to protect them from everything, he doesn't have the duty.
I'm of the opinion that all oaths kaladin will make have been heavily foreshadowed by Lirin. As much as I despise the man as a father, he has done so for the first 4.
Did Lirin foreshadow something for the fifth? Because looking back, yeah, every oath's been a lesson that Lirin's already tried to teach Kaladin.
I'm almost positive he has, but can't think of one that also fits with the mold suggested by the skybreaker 5th ideal.
Maybe something about choosing what's worth protecting, or choosing between things to protect? There are those you can't protect was already foreshadowed by the girl that Kaladin tried to treat but died, choosing to let the son die while he saved Roshone might be the foreshadowing for the final oath.
Mmm maybe, but I feel like that’s covered by the 4th ideal, accepting that there are those he cannot protect. I personally think it’ll be something to do with himself, like the original comment suggested - “I accept that I need protection” or “I accept that I deserve to be protected”. It may also be the classic oxygen mask principle of “I must first protect myself in order to protect others” or something similar. We’ve seen so much of Kal’s journey in terms of learning what he’s capable of, and learning to love and trust others despite loss; but the one thing that he hasn’t been able to accept, because it’s such a fundamental part of his identity and his internal narrative, is that he is fundamentally good and deserving of love and protection. Like, even after the 4th ideal where he released so much of the guilt he held over the people he’d lost, he immediately focused on finding ways to take care of other people because he feels like that’s the only thing that makes him worthy. I think his remaining struggle is going to be with himself more than anything or anyone else. I also like the theory that someone else mentioned that it’s related to Lirin’s view on violence, and Kal needing to stop fighting - which kinda goes along with what I said above about Kal accepting that he needs help too. Like, by putting down the sword and learning to help others with their mental health, he will learn that he too needs and deserves help, and that’s okay, and it doesn’t make him any less worthy of being a knight radiant.
I think Kal retiring at the end of book 5 for his and others mental health, then book 9 or 10 being called back for 1 last mission would work well. The only problem is I thought of it, and Brandon always surprises me, even though the finale is apparently told to us in the first 2 books. Lol.
Now that I think about it, along these lines, the last oath probably has to also find some harmony between their views on violence and will probably tie into whether Lirin should have let Roshone die on the table. So, thematically, I think it will probably also have something to do with pacifism vs violence. Up to this point I've avoided the speculation, but your point is just so intriguing that I can't help myself.
I absolutely love discussing theories with fans. Thanks for succumbing to the temptation.
"I will sass back at the lighteyes." Oh wait, Kal already swore that one.
Kal was born sassing everything.
imo that's too close to the fourth ideal.
Fourth ideal is accepting that you might fail. My idea of the fifth is that sometimes you don't need to try. If anything, I'd say it's a corollary to the second. "I will protect those who cannot protect themselves." Once they can protect themselves, it's not really your job anymore.
I feel like it could be something like, "I accept that people need protection from themseleves." Or "I will protect others without violence." Something that leads him down the mental health path. He's too deadly for the Cosmere, any fight he's in and unchained we expect him to win and it'd be boring for his character arc if he just keeps whooping ass, imo at least.
oooh that’s a great one.
"i accept that i can protect without killing"
I actually lately have been thinking the fifth ideal may be “before all others, I will protect myself.”
Shallan is Chanarach. Radiant contains all her “Herald” memories.
That would be very interesting to see. I still feel it's more likely that Chana is her mother, though.
This would be lit. Shallan “causing the desolation” would be even more direct bc instead of it being from killing her mother, it would be she herself…???
Taln and Ash don’t react to her at all at the end of oathbringer if this is the case.
Shallan is not exceptionally invested
The Shin have all the missing shardblades. I say “missing” because there’s less than a hundred accounted for on modern Roshar. Per ROW there were 2000 honorspren alone bonded at the Recreance. Even if Windrunners were the largest order by far that’s still thousands and thousands of blades that are awol. The Shin have an enforced cultural norm of servitude for anyone that wields a blade, which would be a clever way controlling a large contingent of shardbearers. We also know it’s forbidden for the Shin to sell their warriors to outsiders, which make sense if those warriors have shardblades. They also have the means to pick up all the blades. We know they repeatedly invaded the rest of Roshar, but didn’t seem to try to hold territory. Maybe those “invasions” were more crusades to acquire more blades. They clearly see themselves as the only safe keepers of the honorblades, why not the rest of the shards. A reveal like that also works on a thematic level. From Szeth it seems like the Shin consider fighters basically human deadeyes, who have no right to make decisions. Like imagine a Shin soldier who’s relearning how to be a person alongside their deadeye blade. It also just feels like a Sanderson move, Shinovar has been so secretive there’s got to be another layer to what they’re hiding behind just the other honorblades.
this is somewhat hinted in rysn's shinovar interlude in TWoK - they see shin soldiers (lowest and most numerous caste) but they aren't carrying weapons.
Yeah! Shin warriors are basically defined by the fact that they have weapons. Anyone who picks up a weapon automatically becomes a warrior. Yet when we finally see the soldiers they’re conspicuously unarmed.
I think that shallan will absorb radiant and remember that she worked with the ghostbloods when she was a child, and that when her mother said "she is one of them", she said it about shallan being a ghostblood. I also think she would meet with thaidakar
Pretty sure that she was just referring to Shallan's Radiance, given that other heralds also thought (whether true or not) that this would begin the process of the desolations.
Yeah, Ishar said this to all Heralds, and since they all looked up to him as "the last who retained his wisdom", and even before that he was even the one who forged the Oathpact, so pretty much everybody started killing off upcoming Radiants if encountered.
Especially if it's true that >!Shallan's mother is Chanarach !<
Thaidakar doesn't have any way off of >!scadriel!< though, does he? Isn't he bound there much the same way the Heralds are bound to Roshar?
Shallan has a seon and thaidakar likely uses seons to communicate off-world, so its possible
That's true.
I believe Brandon said that someone could theoretically bond Thaidakar like a spren, and if the Knights Radiance can get off Roshar, he should be able to do something similar. I also like the idea of the Order of the Survivor, lol.
My crackpot theory is that Todium will win and Dalinar will have to go over to his side. The second half of the books will start off dealing with the fallout and consequences of this, 5 years later, and Dalinar will have to be defeated
I would say that this is rather in the realm of possibility and not crackpot.
I guess I would kind of prefer it to be crackpot rather than have to watch Dalinar be the bad guy
Idk… having the Blackthorn be the Sauron to Todium’s Morgoth could be awesome.
It's in the name itself, Blackthorn. That's menacing as hell. Him being a Silver Surfer character, conquering on Odium behalf. Plus I believe Sanderson has an affinity for Lawful evil characters
This is my theory, also that his Connection to Odium through losing the challenge allows him to combine Odium and Honor and become War.
Someone on here has said something about combining all three shards, becoming Conquest.
I am all for the adventures of Mercenary Dalinar, traveling the Cosmere doing Odium’s dirty work
I would seriously hate if dalinar became one of the fused after he so kindly rejected the original offer.
I think the conflict with Odium will be over by the end of the book - the Shard left in a very different state (splintered or merged), Taravangian and Dalinar both dead. But the plot of Stormlight will continue because as it’ll turn out either Cultivation isn’t that benevolent (she did make Todium happen after all) or whatever happens with Odium will turn out not to resolve the conflict between the various human/singer factions.
I think there is wayyyy too much setup for T to just be a one book villain
He’s not a one book villain though! He’s been a villain for all four books so far. In book 1, it turned out he was running the death hospitals and was causing worldwide strife with Szeth. Book 2 he sent Szeth against Dalinar twice. Book 3 he led the betrayal that almost destroyed the coalition and almost gave Odium victory at the battle of Thaylen field , book 4 he betrayed them AGAIN and helped Odium take Urithiru. He’s still a villain in book 5, now with even more power, but even if he gets killed in the next book he won’t have been a one book villain!
I tend to agree with this. TOdium has been set up from the beginning by Cultivation, and I think I'm starting to see why she needed someone else to hold the Shard. Rayse was too knowledgeable, too careful, with his Shard and how he used it. Cultivation's endgame for SA Era 1 is the shattering of Odium, because the Shard is problematic in the short term, and devastating in the long term to any plans she has to Cultivate things. She needed to set up Rayse such that he lost control of the Shard to someone who is both unfamiliar enough with the Power and bold enough to risk it being destroyed. To add to this, a big change and growth for the Shard of Odium itself would be to be shattered, sown like seeds, and given an opportunity to grow. I think that BAM will end up leading the singers after this shattering, and that she will end up being the primary antagonist for most of SA era 2.
I would actively dislike this. Having Taravangian Ascend and then be defeated one book later would make the whole Ascension thing feel less impactful.
I think Todium might turn his hate on the Ghostbloods and Scadrial but needs to get off-world to get to them
Similar to hero of ages
I think Honor shattered himself. My husband doesn't agree and I so badly want to be right, lol.
My theory is that none of your theories about killing off or ruining beloved characters will come true
That would be very Sanderson. "And they all lived happily ever after.", just sums up his entire catalog 😆
I more meant killing off characters that imo it doesn't make sense for - Adolin and Kaladin, for example.
Vasher will give up his returned breath to save the day.
That sounds cool but I feel like it would have to give him a whole lot of development in the fifth book. Without that, it could easily feel very much like a Deus Ex Machina. After all, not everyone has/will read Warbreaker.
Yeah I could definitely see this happening in the second half of the series as by then presumably, as Mistborn era 2 has shown, the cosmere is going to be more and more involved and intertwined, and so it would be more acceptable. First half can stand alone, second half really benefits from more context.
I agree. I definitely think Vasher will do something like this, but I see it happening in mbe4 or back half of stormlight rather than book 5
OOOOhh, that would be so neat to have the Vasher+Nightblood duo to have such HUGE impacts to Roshar within 10 days of each other.
We do not finish the series with Honor and Odium, but rather two hybrid Shards that are a mix of both intents (Justice and Conquest are my top faves).
Conquest Shard would not be good
Conquest would be terrifying. I've seen a theory about all three shards being combined to form Conquest.
That's the whole War theory.
The whole "sun setting" in shadesmar theory resulting in the darkness and no more stormlight after Odium wins. Leads us into SA6 (Lift) who will now be the only notable character with powers since she uses cultivations light. It's a bit of a mishmash, and I'm not sure how it actually goes down, but those are definitely "crack pot" theories I hardly see discussed that I'm nearly certain we'll see.
Everything on Roshar is adapted to stormlight and would die without it, though. Like epidemics are practically unknown because of it, plants and animals need it, etc. Also, even apart from that, the Sibling can produce a Light that is a mixture of Honor and Cultivation, and as such usable by the Radiants.
I'm going with Adolin stays Adolin, but Maya becomes something new. She's the Knight, not just the Blade.
That fits in with Aux calling himself a Knight in TSM. Maybe Maya learns to be more of a Spren, like in that book. It also fits a bit in with the theory that Adolin doesn't become Radiant but ends up with some of those abilities. Notice how he was always able to throw his Shardblade, and Moash was trying to figure out how to do it with Jezrien's blade. So Maya has already been different from pretty much every Deadeye and Nahel Bonded Spren we've seen. Why not see her return by not quite with the Nahel Bond, but something more than a Deadeye.
Lift is a Kandra. A Kandra who didn't want to be forced by Harmony to go and be someone else. So she went to Cultivation and asked "when everything is going wrong I want to remain myself". Cultivation took out one spike and grafted some of her own power, making her independent but also able to consume life light. Her memories were also pruned so she only remembers her current identity, of a little girl with a loving mom. She might somehow be part human or singer in that transformation. For extra cremminess, there's one Kandra we know of that disappeared for a while and returned with one of her spikes plus a corrupted one made from some odd metal. Yes that's right, she went to Roshar, petitioned Cultivation, who split her in two, one side with her Scadrial memories and the corrupted spike and the other a newborn with a connection to Cultivation. The newborn grew up loving her "mother" who ended up going insane and going back to Scadrial for revenge, traumatizing her daughter who was left behind. That's right, Lift is Wax's daughter 🤪
Lmao what
Hoid is a villain. In fact, Hoid is THE villain.
That is very plausible, but I think it's more likely he is The Villain™ in the context of the Cosmere as a whole, and we won't see that side of him in WaT. I'm almost convinced the finale of the Cosmere saga will be a battle between Hoid and Kelsier, but I'm not sure who will be the "good" guy in it.
Mraize is a sleepless.
That would explain the scars!
I think the dead Shardblades will be revived…through Enlightenment. Their problem is that a portion of their being was severed with their Bond. Replace that power! Then there would be a lot of people like Renarin, but for every order. Wonder what an Enlightened Inkspren is like? An Enlightened Windrunner?
There's definitely something happening with the deadeyes. The reason the radiants gave up their powers is not what we think.
I'm pretty confident it's going to wrap up several of the small scale storylines but abort many others with a cataclysmic event that will be a gigantic cliffhanger that raises far more questions than it answers to set up the next 5 books but mostly the readers are going to be very confused >!and it will make everyone say "wat"!<
The unmade are the souls of the heralds. This separation of soul and body is what allowed them to persist though what should have been death, and corruption of the unmade is what truely gave them their madness
I have a theory that shallan is and always has been a spy for the ghostbloods. I think she doesn't remember that anymore because I think she is a kandra who has gotten so into the role that they forgot who they were. I think that the formless identity they have is that.
The kandra part is an interesting twist, but I don't think a kandra would be quite as traumatized about any people as Shallan is. She's 100% a Ghostblood plant and always has been the "broken Davar soulcaster" for sure, though. Definitely agree with that.
"broken Davar soulcaster" Oh wow! I hadn't ever thought of it like that, super interesting.
Why use a good twist once when you can use it twice. This is... a beautiful theory. The dynamics of the Davar family are going to be super important. The mining of white stone they do, the possible herald mother, the Ghostblood interactions, the Skybreaker meddling, the Amaram-recruited... Either we see more Shallan flashbacks to get to the root of it, or someone else who was around at the time is going to be the flashback character for a book. Ash, maybe?
Mraize even said it in Words of Radiance. "Your family, however, does owe me a debt. One Soulcaster. Broken. How convenient that you, by my estimations, are one, little knife."
This is an awesome theory. You left it in the oven longer than anyone else and it browned to golden perfection
My wife and I refer to it as the "Shallandra Theory". We first thought about it because of her eidetic memory which they also possess.
BAM will be found and released before the deadline of the battle in Shinovar, and they (she?) will be Todiums champion.
Gavinor will be Odium’s champion.
This. The duel isn't a fight, it's a moral quandary. Dalinar's final act as a man is to not put the ends before the means, and then he will pivot to being the scariest villain in the cosmere when he becomes odium's general.
It's almost like Taravangian and Dalinar had several discussions about leaders having to make hard choices and doing what is best for their people, even if it's morally abhorrent. I just think people are building up the duel to be a huge fight when it's almost guaranteed to not be that. Dalinar can't use a shardblade, so even if it is an actual sword fight, all Odium has to do is give his champion a shardblade and it's over.
This gains odium almost nothing except one more soldier. I'm of the opinion Todium is going for a tie as Wit foreshadowed. It's the only way Todium gets what he really wants, freedom. Win and he is stuck, lose and he is stuck. A tie however is the only way to win a rigged game.
That's just evil. I like it.
Adolin will become an antagonist (not bad guy) against his father (continuing on from RoW) and the knights radiant (for the same reason Maya once chose the recreance) and end up duelling his father as Odium’s champion.
He is upset and somewhat angry, but Adolin is to good a guy and focused on helping people. Also restoring all the blades. More than pretty much any theory, I hate this. "I'm upset because my dad isn't exactly who I thought he was, so I'm gonna turn against the whole planet..." fuck no. I'd rather see Dalinar lose, kaladin die and Todium go free, than Adolin just become some bad guy, it feels dumb.
Syl gets killed but Kal survives.
Book 5 ends with Navani coming up with ideas for space travel to rescue Dalinar from Todium
Moash, now blind and unable to fight, is used by Todium as bait to get Gavinor to become Odium's champion whic forces Dalinar to choose between a child and Roshar. Moash, bereft of Odium's Copium tries to kill himself only to be saved at the last moment by Kaladin, who orders him to live. Thus starting his long road to a redemption arc in the back half of Stormlight Archives.
That top part is probably the only way that I think the Gavinor Champion theory will work. But I think Moash will be killed by Gavinor, or at least by Odium in exchange for him being the champion.
Yes! This is *exactly* it. People constantly say ‘but the champion has to be willing’ as an argument for why Gavinor wouldn’t be the champion, ignoring that we know exactly one thing about him, he wants to kill Moash. I feel crazy when people say there is no good evidence for it.
He might also sweeten the deal by pointing out Jasnah's goal of restricting the monarchy, "they let your dad go fight and are now trying to erase what he died for, but I can give you his killer and restore your throne". Moash would probably still be the primary bargaining chip though. (Course, if Taravangian conditions this on Gavinor *winning* the fight then he probably won't have to go through with anything he promises anyway, since there's no shot a five-year-old child is killing the Blackthorn. The true goal would be forcing Dalinar back to the bargaining table, but Gav doesn't need to know that part.)
There is more to the story of fleet, its a foreshadowing of kaladins life
- Shallan is a Kandra - Shallan worked with the Ghostbloods prior to SA/when she was younger if she isn’t a Kandra - suckling child death rattle + “and so the night shall reign” death rattle are one sentence, and refer to Chana letting Shallan kill her - TOdium dies/is shattered/is defeated/whatever because he breaks his oath to himself and harms someone from Kharbranth
Ba-Ado-Mishram used to be a greater spren, like the Stormfather, which was created by Adonalsium itself and was on Roshar long before Honor and Cultivation came. When The war broke out she sided with Odium, due to the fact that she sees humans as alien, since Adonalsium didnt intend for them to live on Roshar, the planet was meant for the singers. She isnt evil, she is just doing what her creator asked of her: Look after the singers and the planet and protect it from the evil people
Why have your boots licked when you could demand someone else GIVE BOOTS to you?
Lift will take up the shard of odium, the boon to not change given to her by cultivation will allow her to resist odium's intent.
Ok, I have a few. In no particular order: Mraize has a Connector spike, which explains him easily worming himself into people's confidence, despite being a pretty bad actor, according to Shallan, and not having time to gain people's trust normally, because he has too many irons in the fire and too many places to be. Also, that's why his Aviar occasions no comment even in wildly inappropriate situations, like when he was playing Ialai's trusted bodyguard! And after spiking Gereh in RoW he likely has another power as well, + whatever the Aviar provides him. Liss the assassin is Herald Vedel. Killing for hire is an inversion of her Divine Attributes and her Body Focus is the eyes, which is why she removes them from her victims. Liss also looks to be of mixed ethnicity, like most of the Heralds do and she was subtly mocking Jasnah during their conversation. Shallan's mother was the first Ghostblood in the family and trained Shallan to be an operative for them, which is why Mraize was so sure that Veil was "the real Shallan" and also why inventing Veil got Shallan some genuine skills. Shallan attracting Testament must have been a real coup for Lady Davar, but at some point Shallan refused to go on with the program. Her attack on her daughter was an attempt to provoke a demonstration of recalcitrant Shallan's powers and value to a Ghostblood associate, who was the male "friend" present at the scene. It was a tragic misunderstanding. We know from Pattern that Mraize's letter explaining what happened contained some lies. Well, blaming it all on the Skybreakers fits! There was also a strong hint when Shallan performed "The Girl Who Looked Up" for Pattern in OB that the happy childhood pre-bonding had been another fabrication. And, of course, there is the memory of a young Shallan using a Seon. Iriali came to Roshar at some point after Aharietam, when large parts of it were depopulated. They don't appear in a single one of Dalinar's visions and it makes no sense for them to have been stuck on one planet for so long, particularly in recurring apocalyptic conditions. They sided with Odium in SA because their rulers already knew that time for the next exodus was close, so they did just enough for him, so he would leave them alone and not interfere. The singers were getting all of the country back, so win-win. I had this theory after reading OB, long before the certain Interlude sneak peak became available. They will be next seen on Scadrial, having settled in one of the many unexplored regions, with natives being none the wiser until some expedition discovers them. There was already a hint of them in TLM, but not of a country's worth of population. Thankfully, Scadrial has plenty of uninhabited space. If Kaladin doesn't Ascend to Honor in WaT, he will replace Dalinar as a Bondsmith. There have been plenty of special interactions between him and the Stormfather, and his trajectory away from the battlefield mirrors Dalinar's. Syl will either share him with Daddy or die. Another old theory of mine, since WoR or OB is that Tanavast's cognitive shadow has full independent personality, like all others except for Threnody's shades, but mostly hides behind Stormfather's consciousness. All the visions and interjections that the SF insists didn't come from him, were sent by Tanavast's CS. He also played Nohadon in the changed vision. And he was the one talking to Gavilar in the WaT prologue. After this fiasco, he chose a more hands-off approach with Dalinar.
The Ghostbloods reveal everything they did was under the direct orders of Kelsier.
That would confirm your username as well lol
I mean it still wouldn't confirm it 100% for most people, but it would absolutely win me more followers in the great cordial gentlemen's battle to the death between myself and u/kelsierisgood
I seriously doubt that. Twinsoul’s remarks (and Brandon’s own comments) in TLM make it sound like the Roshar Ghostbloods are going a little rouge. But you can keep your deluded hopes.
That Todium won't be that bad. I see Dalinar losing the contest, and having to serve Todium, however I also don't necessarily think Taravangian will be as straight up antagonistic as Rayse was. I don't see him being a hero or anything, but I could see him being good for roshar in the long run.
Teatament will get enlightened and bond formless, making an un-lightweaver.
I have a whole note pad document of theories i think are plausible. But i will list the ones I find the most plausible: Dalinar will lose the contest and become odium's evil commander against his will (just like how ruin controlled the inquisitors) blackthorn part 2 Ba-Ado-Mishram will be freed from her prison Sixteen is Spook The Unmade in Shinovar is Chemoarish and her effect might be something like making others no longer care about tradition or keeping records etc. Odium's champion will be Gavinor
I mean I'm sure it's not very original but Todium wins in ALMOST every conceivable way. How else are they going to set up 5 more books, potentially leading to an all out shard war? Todium HAS to win in an impactful way. I'm sure the heroes will get some small victories that will lead to big things down the line (really love the idea of Kaladin ascending to the Honor shard) but I view this as the Infinity War of Stormlight, Todium wins and the follow up will be them picking up the pieces and the rest of the cosmere preparing for the larger war to come now that Todium is free of Roshar.
Along with many others, I see Cultivation as the master manipulator on Roshar. She's specifically set up at least three of the major players as pawns to manipulate exactly these events. But I don't think she's evil. I think she's terribly depressed. Cultivation wants to kill herself. She loved Tanavast deeply. No matter how their relationship may have changed through the centuries, his death must have been devastating. They broke God together. Immortality was the least of their rewards. I think she's planning to pass on her shard to a vessel she's been grooming. But, being Cultivation, she's got to make even her death an act of growth. She's been grooming her vessel not to take on just her shard, but all three shards on Roshar. Dalinar is her vessel. He has been directly touched and influenced by Honor, Cultivation and Odium. He's shown outrageous growth and mastery of the most noble aspects of all three. His personal honor is unquestionable, and his passion is terrifying. He will still fail. But it's not his fault. Cultivation won't die in time. Her shard's influence betrays her, and she keeps trying to shape events until it's too late. Dalinar says the words and ascends again, reuniting the shard of Honor and Slaying TOdium. He's a perfect vessel for both shards, and he becomes War. I'm not sure how Cultivation ultimately dies. Maybe War kills her in his initial rage. Seizing Odium must be like the Thrill on divine steroids. Lift takes the discarded Shard. She was always the backup, the hole card. Wyndle was asked specifically to bond with her. He's her bodyguard. That's why he's always trying to get her to avoid risks. Somehow, in all this, Dalinar discovers the influence of the Ghostbloods. He hates it. He's dealing not only with Gods and mad magics, but now aliens!? He immediately declares war on Scadriel, home of Thaidakar. Lift flees with Shallan and the Ghostbloods. End of Era 1.
I agree with Dalinar becoming War. He's too honorable to not at least play a major role in reforging Honor, and he's definitely got the side of Odium too. Combine that with Navani's discovery of the Rhythms and in particular, of the Rhythm of War, and we have a recipe for an absolutely insane Vessel/Shard combination in Dalinar/War
I truly believe syl is going to die, and I am hate-downvoted anytime I mention it. Even in threads like this one SMH my head 🤡
Why do you think she will die?
It's a fear-expectation thing. We've seen a couple of ways now that spren can die with no meaningful consequences yet deriving from that. It feels like the one thing left that can really hurt Kaladin, and I do buy into him taking the honor shard, and I think maybe he may need to be without Syl for that. I don't really have a unifying theory of why or how, it just feels like a story beat that is inevitable to me.
I don't think the Maya arc is mostly over. It barely started. She showed the first few glimpses of lucidity but I really doubt she will gain full consciousness in less than 10 days. And even if that was the case it would be an extremely unsatisfying end to his arc, as he in your prediction just found out deadeys can be revived, possibly forming something like a reverse Nahel bond just to die shortly after, making this achievement completely useless. Also I really don't see how Adolins death would be good for Shallans mental health lmao. That's Insane. And how would Dalinar become odiums champion that doesn't make sense at all. Especially given that he resisted exactly that already in OB. If he becomes champion I doubt he will die.
Shalladin.
Adolin would have to die or they become poly
I think todium wins and binds dalinar to his will and begins an age of Cold War on Roshar, but at the end of book ten he reforges honor and becomes its new vessel
Syladin. We saw the experiments with making spren "physical" by ishar (I think). And also, please brandon, it would be *sooooo* funny
Spoilers for Yumi >!When Hoid was describing Design, he said that her body was not real, as "we all sort of learned our lesson on that", which leads me to believe that Ishar's experiments ultimately failed. Of course, B-money intentionally phrased it vaguely, so it's possible there was another reason for Hoid to say that!<
I've had the theory for awhile now that they'll find Ba-Ado-Mishram at Akinah. After sealing her, the radiants gave her to the Sleepless to hide, so they put her with the Dawnshard since they already planned on no one ever finding it. It answers a question that's bugged me since Dawnshard came out; where did the stormlight come from in the cave? They're in a cave underwater, so no stormlight is coming in from the Highstorm, but they find enough light gems to infuse a set of Shardplate. We know Mishram was able to generate voidlight, so it's not a stretch that she might be able to create stormlight as well (maybe a carryover from before being unmade). Even more telling, there's a corridor leading further in to the cave, one with light coming from further down, that we never see them explore. It would be odd to add that in without exploration unless it was foreshadowing something down the passage that we find later.
Navani combines all three forms of light and nukes Urithiru by mistake
Adolin will take up reforged honor. My man's probably gonna sacrifice himself for something but I can hope.
My theory is the Honor shard is reforged but taken up by Todium to become War instead of Dalinar beating Todium and taking up both Honor and Odium.
1. I haven't really crafted this into a good theory yet, but: * BAM's capture is the cause for deadeyes, as well as the listener's Dull Form * Adolin "fixing" Maya from being a deadeye is clearly part of his arc * At the end of RoW, Shallan and Adolin set out to find BAM before the Ghostbloods -> So Shallan and Adolin's arc in RoW is key in resolving both the deadeye spren issue and making peace between humans and listeners. Or I guess what I'm trying to say is Shallan's BAM/Ghostblood arc and Adolin's Maya/deadeye arc are connected. 2. Sja-Anat is a double agent for Cultivation. It might be a translation thing, but the Sja-Anat pov chapters where she talks about the corrupted spren really gave me Cultivation-like vibes. So I guess she was originally a spren of Cultivation that was then unmade by Odium. We already know that tries to fight Odium, so she somehow remained loyal to Cultivation.
My insane theory is that Taravangian will become an ally by using the Odium shard as Passion.
That there will be lasting peace between the singers and humans. Though this may come closer to book 10.
The Unmade are corrupted pieces of the Shard of Honor. I feel as though the Thrill could have been Mercy, once, or perhaps the Heart of the Revel might have been Restraint, all of them splintered from Honor, and embodying different components of Honor, but twisted by Odium to his own Shard's whims. Maybe I just don't know enough to know why I'm wrong, though
1. Dalinar has already been chosen as Odium's champion. 2. Dalinar enters the duel of champions and loses/dies. 3. Kaladin kills him in said duel. 4. ??? 5. Kaladin learns to mourn and move on.
I'm with you that Adolin will be champion. I don't think he'll die.
Szeth bonding a shard before becoming a skybreaker. If I’m right about this y’all will never hear the end of it.
Taln as Odium’s champion while wielding Nightblood (hopefully against Kaladin). I think there’s been too much foreshadowing of Taln as a god-tier fighter, and add to this that Kaladin keeps winning against people who have these unbelievable power-ups, I think the reader needs to see Odium with a champion that makes us think “as strong as Kaladin is, there’s just no way he can pull this off”. There are other ways this could complete or move forward narrative arcs with interesting twists. Taln was never broken, he never gave up, Brandon even made that very clear in a WOB. We know that every other herald has, in a way, become the opposite of their ideals. For Taln to be Odium’s champion he would need to be broken or deceived in some way. We already know he’s kind of crazy, what if Nightblood were to come along saying “Would you like to destroy some evil today?” Could that sway Taln? And, finally, I think it’s so interesting that Nightblood was crafted based on either an honorblade or shardblade. What if it was crafted based on Taln’s honorblade? And since Taln’s honorblade is missing (another interesting detail), would he think that Nightblood is his own honorblade? Would he be more inclined to trust Nightblood, thus leading to his long-awaited break from Honor?