Bitcoin [pros](/r/CryptoCurrency/comments/1blzsfj/blackrock_to_flip_23_billion_bitcoin_competitor/kw9v4b0/) & [cons](/r/CryptoCurrency/comments/1blzsfj/blackrock_to_flip_23_billion_bitcoin_competitor/kw9v4zu/) with related info are in the collapsed comments below.
Ah thank you. I don't understand newspeak so didn't know what "flip" in this context means.
Flipping usually involves physically turning over something/someone or purchasing an asset and reselling it for higher price.
Its not really that impressive when you consider its just the money from GBTC moving to Blockrocks ETF. The fees on GBTC are like 5x those on Blackrocks ETF. Not being a bear, but it’s not real buying this is just people switching to better fee structure. Still good inflows, but this is nothing.
Once greyscale outflows are done in about 2 months an 3 weeks and the halving will just increase the etf inflow. Also a lot of people don’t understand that 60k is the new floor price. Because for big miners to make money on btc it has to go from 35k to 60k and they will buy stronger GPU, hence NIVIDA is also surging.
In the gold run the people who sold the shovels made more money than the actual miners;))
The product being available and legally safe alone does that. Not that I simp for DCG, but I don’t much wrong with them. Sure, if Blackrock got rid of the fund today the price would tank and maybe we would lose a couple percent off what this cycles ATH would have been, but the roster of institutional products is quite large now.
Grayscale learned their lesson and they are switching to some mini version which will lower the fee dramatically. If they have any brains left at all on this count it wouldn't be a click over 50 basis points. And I think the drain could continue if they're dumb enough to even make it that expensive.
From 200 to 150 basis points was a slap in the face.
We've been slapping back for many weeks now. As I believe they've lost at least half their AUM last I checked...I turned over a quarter million of gbtc into micro strategy and some miner stocks within IRAs...
Absolutely, its the only reason the genesis block exists. Mr Nakamoto is alive and well just waiting to push the button and teach the banksters the lesson they deserve. Wasn\`t this the whole point of the 2008 whitepaper anyway?
Its not enough to pull the rug on volume alone, but in a market where value depends so heavily on optimism, trust and predictability a mega whale like this coming alive would wreck havoc. Once panic sets in the whole house of cards could easily crumble. Markets be wild like this. That said, its just a fun little thought experiment and its very very unlikely to happen.
And people would sell until the price gets too good to pass up…4 years later, new ATH. THE TRUST HAS BEEN BROKEN HUNDREDS OF TIMES and we’re still here.
It's pretty incredible how fast everyone flipped from "we need institutions for mainstream adoption" to "we don't need institutions taking people's Bitcoin"
Everything can be corrupted or used by shady players if it involves money. That's just how the world works. If everyone is free to use Bitcoin then we can't complain about corporations, institutions, terrorists, governments, etc taking advantage of it. Who's going to stop them? The CEO of Bitcoin?
That being said let me ask you this. Did it bother you when Grayscale had over 600k Bitcoin pre ETF? What about the fact that Saylor has over 200k Btc on behalf of Microstrategy? Also, Coinbase is the one who actually custodies the Bitcoin for Blackrock, so really they're the ones who actually "own" it. From what I understand they already hold over a million Btc. Does that bother you? Not to mention that Blackrock only buys Bitcoin on behalf of their customers who wish to purchase it. Those same customers who are personally choosing to sell their Grayscale shares and enter a lower fee product, which Blackrock offers. So which part gives you the ick? Blackrock offering an investment product or people deciding of their own free will to put their money into it?
Not exactly related to this, but why did ARKB price theirs to match BTC, but the others didn't. You can look at $67.7 and know more or less the price of BTC is 67700 (minus small slippage). Then look at IBIT and $33.29 and have no idea the actual price.
With years, this price will diverge because of the ETF's fees. I would say it's a bad idea for them because it will show how much investors lost in fees. It will become quite significant with compounding interests.
The price will be so astronomical in 5-10 years that fee (.25) will look like pennies. Low cost etf are in the .04 range. .25 isn’t even that bad for $ibit atleast..
The amount of selling on Grayscale is sheer madness. Looks like another 71 days or so before they literally run out of BTC to sell and are forced to turn out the lights.
It’s mostly just moving to the other funds. Keep in mind trades must settle. I sold GBTC and couldn’t rebuy for 3 days until the funds settled. Not every dollar that leaves will come back through the other funds but keep in mind a lot of the money buying today was sold 3+ days ago and has finally cleared to rebuy the cheaper fee funds.
Yep this is through a major firm and that’s how market execution works unless you have cash sidelined to put in immediately. I’d be curious to see but check 3 days after major outflow days and I bet you have major inflow days. And in my case, I was just too busy and was sidelined for probably 10 days before I got back in the other funds. So there’s a combination of all of that going on and it’s all still bullish. Over 50% of Gbtc sells are coming back in over time in the short term. Cheers!
I asked why they just don't change their rates and was told they were paying off debt and couldn't? Can someone elaborate on what's going on with grayscale
they will change their rates. But think about how much AUM they've kept since January at the 1.5% fee. Even with the runoff, it was worth it to them to keep the fee high.
At a certain point the AUM will reach a level low enough for it to make sense to lower their fee.
The cronies would have found something else to FUD with we should be way higher already but they are actually paying attention to crypto this cycle and playing it like a fiddle as always.
black rock doesn't control the crypto. if people sell the etf black rock will sell the crypto. you should really be concerned with Michael Saylor. he is just buying btc and likely never going to sell it.
No see, the only way we can break away the shackles of traditional finance is if BTC moons *because of traditional finance*. /s
We're fucked no matter what we do at this point. We lost the war generations ago. May as well ride the whales to a moderately stable quality of life.
Just look at their AUM in $ terms, even though they lost a lot of BTC their AUM
has been relatively stable due to the BTC price going up. So keeping the fees high is making them a lot more money then if they would've lowered them.
So it just means they're bullish on the BTC price rising more than the amount they're bleeding. Future will tell if this was smart or not
Bitcoin cost to much now for me to invest. I'll take my chances with Hedera Hbar governance council. If Google, LG, Hitachi and many more big corporations have partnered with Hedera then that's what I'm buying. Corporations rule the world. They love Hbar.
Bitcoin [pros](/r/CryptoCurrency/comments/1blzsfj/blackrock_to_flip_23_billion_bitcoin_competitor/kw9v4b0/) & [cons](/r/CryptoCurrency/comments/1blzsfj/blackrock_to_flip_23_billion_bitcoin_competitor/kw9v4zu/) with related info are in the collapsed comments below.
BlackRock is to overtake grayscale within two weeks, dude says****
r/titlegore
Ah thank you. I don't understand newspeak so didn't know what "flip" in this context means. Flipping usually involves physically turning over something/someone or purchasing an asset and reselling it for higher price.
In this case it refers to “flipping” their ranking. It’s currently Greyscale 1, Blackcock 2, that will “flip” to Blackrock 1, Greyscale 2.
Someone should start a 3rd company and call it Whitegoo
FYI, there is also a term called *The Flippening* which is the hypothetical time when Ethereum takes over Bitcoin.
in crypto it means surpass
Its not really that impressive when you consider its just the money from GBTC moving to Blockrocks ETF. The fees on GBTC are like 5x those on Blackrocks ETF. Not being a bear, but it’s not real buying this is just people switching to better fee structure. Still good inflows, but this is nothing.
Once greyscale outflows are done in about 2 months an 3 weeks and the halving will just increase the etf inflow. Also a lot of people don’t understand that 60k is the new floor price. Because for big miners to make money on btc it has to go from 35k to 60k and they will buy stronger GPU, hence NIVIDA is also surging. In the gold run the people who sold the shovels made more money than the actual miners;))
Blackrock will attract new capital, greyscale won't.
The product being available and legally safe alone does that. Not that I simp for DCG, but I don’t much wrong with them. Sure, if Blackrock got rid of the fund today the price would tank and maybe we would lose a couple percent off what this cycles ATH would have been, but the roster of institutional products is quite large now.
Grayscale learned their lesson and they are switching to some mini version which will lower the fee dramatically. If they have any brains left at all on this count it wouldn't be a click over 50 basis points. And I think the drain could continue if they're dumb enough to even make it that expensive. From 200 to 150 basis points was a slap in the face. We've been slapping back for many weeks now. As I believe they've lost at least half their AUM last I checked...I turned over a quarter million of gbtc into micro strategy and some miner stocks within IRAs...
When you see the headline involving 'analyst' and then see its just a shilling crypto YouTuber...
_don't forget to hit like and subscribe and click the little bell icon_
"Hey what's up YouTube, it's me ya boy back at it with another video"
You know it’s pure shit!
Maybe they are super good at anal
"Hey there, im super good at anal"
"let me explain"
Extensive peer reviewed research published in Trust me Bro.
Something about institutions gives me the ick
It's what Satoshi would have wanted
Absolutely, its the only reason the genesis block exists. Mr Nakamoto is alive and well just waiting to push the button and teach the banksters the lesson they deserve. Wasn\`t this the whole point of the 2008 whitepaper anyway?
[удалено]
You're spot on! Those banksters always manage to find a way to win, no matter what the game.
correct
but the tide would rise with *all* the ships
A sinking ship lowers all tides
You sunk my battleship
Please turn me on, I'm Mr. Coffee with an automatic drip.
So show me yours I'll show you mine "tool time" you'll Lovett just like Lyle
Satoshi only owns about 2 million Bitcoin doesn’t he? It’s too late now to rug everyone.
Its not enough to pull the rug on volume alone, but in a market where value depends so heavily on optimism, trust and predictability a mega whale like this coming alive would wreck havoc. Once panic sets in the whole house of cards could easily crumble. Markets be wild like this. That said, its just a fun little thought experiment and its very very unlikely to happen.
And people would sell until the price gets too good to pass up…4 years later, new ATH. THE TRUST HAS BEEN BROKEN HUNDREDS OF TIMES and we’re still here.
jesus christ, you are taking this way to serious
Duump eet
He bought?
good to know someone else has a similar prediction :)
FUD. I don’t think that if he is alive, that he would ever move his bags.
It's pretty incredible how fast everyone flipped from "we need institutions for mainstream adoption" to "we don't need institutions taking people's Bitcoin"
The only one flipping is Satoshi in his grave.
Lol I don’t think so. I’m pretty sure he wanted libertarian peer to peer cash haha
Somehow I don’t think that’s true
I guess the joke wasn't funny. Was only a matter of time before legacy markets would taint the industry
If he presses a button and he's still alive we are fucked
For a short period of time
Yep, I suspect he wouldnt want have wanted most of what cryptocurrency has turned into.
if he's smart enough to foresee and create Bitcoin and still remain anonymous, I'm sure he's smart enough to have foreseen the rest of it
No no no, he mentioned something about banks and government bailouts in the first block, so it's fine. Big fan.
you forgot /s
/s ruins the fun of sarcasm
Everything about BlackRock should give you the "Ick".
Everything can be corrupted or used by shady players if it involves money. That's just how the world works. If everyone is free to use Bitcoin then we can't complain about corporations, institutions, terrorists, governments, etc taking advantage of it. Who's going to stop them? The CEO of Bitcoin?
>about institutions gives me the ick So true! Everything about institutions gives me the ick
Same
That being said let me ask you this. Did it bother you when Grayscale had over 600k Bitcoin pre ETF? What about the fact that Saylor has over 200k Btc on behalf of Microstrategy? Also, Coinbase is the one who actually custodies the Bitcoin for Blackrock, so really they're the ones who actually "own" it. From what I understand they already hold over a million Btc. Does that bother you? Not to mention that Blackrock only buys Bitcoin on behalf of their customers who wish to purchase it. Those same customers who are personally choosing to sell their Grayscale shares and enter a lower fee product, which Blackrock offers. So which part gives you the ick? Blackrock offering an investment product or people deciding of their own free will to put their money into it?
Not exactly related to this, but why did ARKB price theirs to match BTC, but the others didn't. You can look at $67.7 and know more or less the price of BTC is 67700 (minus small slippage). Then look at IBIT and $33.29 and have no idea the actual price.
that's interesting to note; I hadn't noticed that
With years, this price will diverge because of the ETF's fees. I would say it's a bad idea for them because it will show how much investors lost in fees. It will become quite significant with compounding interests.
The price will be so astronomical in 5-10 years that fee (.25) will look like pennies. Low cost etf are in the .04 range. .25 isn’t even that bad for $ibit atleast..
To a poor individual not someone with millions in the fund and GBTCs fees are really high.
Does this happen with VOO, or any fund that tracks a things price?
And when Grayscale runs out, coincides with the halving. we lift off to the moon
The amount of selling on Grayscale is sheer madness. Looks like another 71 days or so before they literally run out of BTC to sell and are forced to turn out the lights.
[удалено]
It's okay, they are just building the market lows for us.
, says analyst
I have shares in grayscale BTC ETF. I should probably sell….
If gcbt wouldn’t sell we would have seen 80k easily than
It’s mostly just moving to the other funds. Keep in mind trades must settle. I sold GBTC and couldn’t rebuy for 3 days until the funds settled. Not every dollar that leaves will come back through the other funds but keep in mind a lot of the money buying today was sold 3+ days ago and has finally cleared to rebuy the cheaper fee funds.
If there are lots of folks like you, this sounds blessing in a disguise..
Yep this is through a major firm and that’s how market execution works unless you have cash sidelined to put in immediately. I’d be curious to see but check 3 days after major outflow days and I bet you have major inflow days. And in my case, I was just too busy and was sidelined for probably 10 days before I got back in the other funds. So there’s a combination of all of that going on and it’s all still bullish. Over 50% of Gbtc sells are coming back in over time in the short term. Cheers!
I asked why they just don't change their rates and was told they were paying off debt and couldn't? Can someone elaborate on what's going on with grayscale
they will change their rates. But think about how much AUM they've kept since January at the 1.5% fee. Even with the runoff, it was worth it to them to keep the fee high. At a certain point the AUM will reach a level low enough for it to make sense to lower their fee.
Lost money in FTX and Genesis
What?
Its not grayscale selling, its their investors selling
The cronies would have found something else to FUD with we should be way higher already but they are actually paying attention to crypto this cycle and playing it like a fiddle as always.
Why would anyone celebrate Black Rock controlling more crypto?
black rock doesn't control the crypto. if people sell the etf black rock will sell the crypto. you should really be concerned with Michael Saylor. he is just buying btc and likely never going to sell it.
Saylor is the burn wallet
So…we have to burn him?
sometimes you have to build bridges before you burn them.
Or run barges into them…
lmao
To become richer
One ring to rule them all
Those people just want their bags to pump even if traditional financial system is involved.
That’s the whole point, yes
Not for Satoshi or the cypherpunk who built it.
Nobody cares
Of course degens or maxis don't care, they would lick Larry Fink balls to pump their bags.
No see, the only way we can break away the shackles of traditional finance is if BTC moons *because of traditional finance*. /s We're fucked no matter what we do at this point. We lost the war generations ago. May as well ride the whales to a moderately stable quality of life.
When this sub started simping for gensler, BTC sold it's soul.
People are celebrating adoption, which does include companies like blackrock weather you like it or not.
Why would anyone be against Black Rock owning bitcoin?
The global financial system is about to start pouring billions into Bitcoin. These number have their attention
Trillions*
GG guys
The real Flippening
Ok
I’m sick of hearing about black Rock . They crashed Terra stable coin and need to be punished.
I'd rather pay taxes than let these corporations make money from me.
I imagine they probably have a backroom deal where Greyscale sells all their BTC and Blackrock buys it up.
Its not grayscale selling or blackrock buying. Its investors selling and investors buying through those companies
underrated comment
It's probably going to have a similar effect on ethereum with the fund they are putting on it as well.
I don’t understand how grayscale is this dumb . It’s shady .
Just look at their AUM in $ terms, even though they lost a lot of BTC their AUM has been relatively stable due to the BTC price going up. So keeping the fees high is making them a lot more money then if they would've lowered them. So it just means they're bullish on the BTC price rising more than the amount they're bleeding. Future will tell if this was smart or not
That’s because btc price has gone up. At these rates they will run out of btc in a matter of months.
Blackrock about to overtake them in how hard they can dump?
Blackrock can’t and won’t dump. The funds in their portfolio belong to investors and the investors may dump the same way they do every cycle.
This will be an interesting bull run as always.
may you live in interesting times
word on the street, trust me bro
Bitcoin cost to much now for me to invest. I'll take my chances with Hedera Hbar governance council. If Google, LG, Hitachi and many more big corporations have partnered with Hedera then that's what I'm buying. Corporations rule the world. They love Hbar.