It's not and it's gonna have consequences. I was a sophomore when Bin Laden decided to do some sudden, unscheduled urban redevelopment. Now, some teens were down with the whole jingoistic "let's kill em all and let God sort it out", myself included, but that was honestly the overall attitude of the country as a whole at the time. There were a few peacenik weirdos that opposed the wars, Iraq more than Afghanistan. There was even one kid that wore a black armband every day and openly called Bush a war criminal.
All in all, most kids had no strong opinion either way and chalked it up to "I don't think the government cares what I think" and went about their day and lives.
However, social media has changed the game and there's this weird pressure where you have to take a stand for the cause or you'll get drowned out by the algorithm and accused by both sides of being complicit in Bad Things.
One big difference was that you didn't have to worry about being named and shamed for having no opinion.
Also, it was totally different. For the first time since Pearl Harbor, we were the undisputed aggrieved party, and oh boy were we cashing those chips in. Bush went from being controversially not Al Gore to the great man who was gonna open up a can of whoop ass. Now, the honeymoon period didn't last forever, but for the first 6 to 12 months, it was overwhelming nationalist solidarity.
Was curious, so I looked it up. FDR was already pretty popular, so not nearly as large of a jump. He went from 72% to 84%.
I was also incorrect, Bush went from 51% to 90%, not 50% to 85%.
Source: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rally_%27round_the_flag_effect
Yeah, FDR’s approval went from “great” to “astronomical.”
I jest, but the dude was already popular, to the extent he had just become the first person *ever* to succeed in getting a third term as president just the year before.
As a kid then who didn't like the idea of going to war, I absolutely was bullied for being a pacifist. Constant shaming for not passing the purity test of the zeitgeist. Not being happy about war meant being socially excluded.
I’m exactly your age and you’re misremembering this. The whole “we’re all united behind retribution” thing lasted barely a few months. Bush and Cheney pivoted very quickly from focusing on the terrorists to warmongering against Iraq, and a LOT of people opposed this. By 2003 there were massive protests all over the world (and walkouts in many high schools) against a war that many of us young men fully expected we’d be drafted into.
It wasn’t a few weirdo kids, it was a massive international effort.
\>a few peacenik weirdos that opposed the wars, Iraq more than Afghanistan. There was even one kid that wore a black armband every day and openly called Bush a war criminal.
These were the ppl that were proven right by history.
Your point mosly makes sense, but why do think its a bad thing for young people to have opinions about things? These topics are complicated and muanced yet, but why do you feel like teenagers shouldnt have the right to care about a topic?
It's not bad for people to care. The problem is when people care about an issue so much it defines their entire being and attack others for not sharing their same opinion. It's self destructive.
As I sad, I think social media has changed the game. It acts as such a force multiplier to every aspect of navigating the social scene which was extremely difficult for teens before every fault and foible could be recorded and posted for all to see.
How many kids are going to look back at themselves chanting "From the river to the sea" after they have realized a decades old call for indiscriminate slaughter isn't edgy, it's atrocious.
Frankly, I'm really glad there isn't video of me talking about how Afghanistan should be turned into a glass parking lot when I was 16 and full of self righteous anger.
Are you saying that “peacenik weirdos” and bloodthirsty war hawks are just two sides of the same coin and the proper response is to just be complacent and go about your day? r/enlightenedcentrist moment
Bin Laden needed to be brought to justice. He'd already gotten away with the 1993 bombing and he was emboldened to try again on a larger scale and look where that got us. The Taliban was given the opportunity to surrender him to the US and they told America to fuck off. To allow such an act to go unpunished would have encouraged further attacks on Americans.
Obviously, some sort of military response was justified and proper but "nuke every square inch of Afghanistan", which was a somewhat popular sentiment at the time, was probably a bit excessive. So, yeah, enlightened centrism was sort of the winner of the day in that scenario.
The Afghanistan war was a 20 year long multi trillion dollar disaster that resulted in 46,000 dead civilians, millions of refugees (undeniably a greater toll of human suffering than 9/11 several times over) and ultimately a Taliban victory. But at least we got Bin Laden 🤪🤪🤪
Our inability to execute the objectives doesn't mean that the pursuit of those objectives was not necessary and proper. It was a military victory that ultimately ended in a political defeat.
The truth is that pacifying an insurgency is extremely difficult under the constraints of modern warfare. The occupying force has a rule book and multiple abstract goals. The resistance has no rules and a single concrete goal: win.
To add to this, Aghanistan isnt even a fucking country, the people there have very little concept of national identity, its irrelevant to them, they care more about their ethnic identity, whether your Pashtun or Tajik or Hazara or Uzbek or one of the dozen or so other ethnic minorities matters a helluva lot more than being "Afghani". That isnt even getting into the economics of the country, and how unindustrialized vast swathes of it are and the profound lack of any kind of modern infrastructure outside of the major cities, simply put, its a fucking mess caused by the British and French drawing nations around where the oil was without a thought to the people living in the regions.
The great benefit, and great flaw, of social mefia is that it allows you to communicate anything you like (words, pictures, videos) with any message you please (especially as moderation is generally crappy so there’s little to no oversight like there can be in person), to almost anyone anywhere.
So if your message is misinformed, or malicious, you can plant the seed of terrible things in peoples minds very quickly.
Why do you think so many teens are depressed these days?
Humans weren’t built to handle constant exposure to global atrocities and it takes an even greater toll on kids
I am Ukrainian and I think that I made a mistake in wanting to know what other people think about the situation in my country. As a result, in order not to constantly be in hatred and despair, I cleaned out my Internet to such an extent that only entertainment remained. and in general I try to spend as little time as possible on the Internet.
I’m in the states and I volunteer with two local orgs founded by Ukrainians who help gather funding for medical equipment used by civilians and military personnel. I know a lot of people have badly formed opinions, or it seems like a lot of people don’t care, but there are still people out there that are trying to help and stay informed. Can’t say I disagree that staying off the internet is better for the view of humanity, though…
Guy on Reddit recently told me he doesnt listen to science because it’s “propaganda” that’s used to control us and tell us what to think.
Checked his account, he believes in everything astrology. He also believes in nephilims. My guy believes in anything that doesn’t have evidence because i guess… that’s science, and he doesnt like that
Ok this is so sad. I went to check his account to find his account has been deleted. Gone. Maybe banned. This is terrible, i miss him, i want to see his delusional takes again. RIP Bozo, miss you brother
Here’s the literal post where im sat here arguing with him. I know you shouldn’t argue with stupid people but I couldn’t help it, it was very fun https://www.reddit.com/r/facepalm/s/IUD5UOkYjo
yeah all he had to do was ask the red army very nicely not to immediately execute him despite them still being upset about that whole invading them, calling for the mass murder of their entire ethnic group, killing millions of people including millions of russians, burning down everything from warsaw to Stalingrad, and all the concentration camps they saw on the way to Berlin
Honestly, I choose to believe in the occult for fun, mostly. I stake nothing on its validity and make decisions as though it’s not real. However, life is more enjoyable if I say it is real so I go along with it.
I never really thought much about it on a meta-level, but am realising this description fits me pretty well. I love anything "occult" and make the active choice to believe in things like demons, spirits, divination, ESP, etc, just because it's fun to and makes the world a little more mysterious/cool to me. But I've also never considered allowing any of those beliefs to influence anything important in my life; it's basically just set dressing.
So, I always felt weird when asked about my religious/spiritual beliefs, as they're not something I let actually impact my life beyond fun thought-rabbit-holes and little occasional "rituals" (like doing a tarot or rune reading, or saying a short prayer for good luck/inspiration to a particular entity).
It's funny how *everyone* has their own superstitions. I remember reading a post about the [peculiar beliefs of grad students in the lab](https://preview.redd.it/tivys2dvrnm21.jpg). It seems to be a part of human nature to have little rituals for good fortune and no amount of worldly knowledge or technology has changed that.
This is why I think the Chaos Magick position of "it's all bullshit anyway" is the one that works best. Also, Alan Moore talking about magick and creativity being essentially the same thing.
science is litterally the opposite of propaganda.
Modern studies have to be reproductible, account for biases and prevent them when possible (something something double-blind), and thoroughly explain everything they're doing logically.
There are still issues like the tobacco smokescreen studies, and I wouldn't be surprised if there was a bit of corruption in the field, but there are LOTS of safeguards that prevent that from being too much of an issue.
Chemo is definitely deadly. It’s literally poison straight into your veins, relying on the fact that you have more non-cancer cells than cancer cells so you can hopefully outlast it. Not that it isn’t an incredible advancement in medicine, but it’s terrible too.
I got banned from a subreddit because I voiced my support for Ukraine. The mod's reasoning was "by supporting Ukraine you support ongoing warfare and young people dying. I am not going to allow a murder supporter on this subreddit".
That's insane.
What are they supposed to do then, hold hands and chant kumbaya while Putin invades their country? Like, Putin is murdering people too???
There was a bunch of people on Twitter a few days ago who wanted to do a "day of silence" where they'd use their platforms to promote visibility for Palestine, which I think is a good thing on its own.
However, there was a lot of people who said that if you don't participate, then you're actively "burying posts about Palestine" and are just as evil for it and "selfish for not giving up talking about your own interests for a day"
And like
??????
People on Twitter really have an overinflated sense of their own impact on the world.
They think activism is just about saying the right things and whether your "activism" achieves anything is irrelevant
I heard an interview a while ago with a guy from Extinction Rebellion/Just Stop Oil in which he explicitly states that's his goal.
Edit: [About 42:30-43:00 ish](https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/m001r7jn), IDK how region locking will be on the site.
Of course it's from Just Stop Oil. I wouldn't be surprised if they're paid by oil execs because their "protests" are the stupidest. Sitting down in the middle of an active F1 race and they also tried to destroy art just because the paint used had the word oil in it.
Iirc, Just Stop Oil is funded by an oil baron and is intentionally pulling ridiculous protests out of their ass to make environmentalists look like clowns
They were funded by a group that distributes funding to multiple environmental causes, which in itself was funded by a lady that inherited a bunch of oil money and started giving it away to counteract the effects of where it came from.
The real psyop is the “Just Stop Oil is funded by an oil baron” narrative, because it’s vaguely true if you squint enough and it’s a perfect gotcha to undermine their entire movement in both the eyes of the left and the right. It’s insidious frankly.
I see a lot of people replying to random posts saying like "why didn't you say anything about Palestine??"
Maybe because writing a tweet saying "I support Palestine" does literally nothing
It has to be something about the way engagement on social media works, and being unable to understand scale
Getting 1000s of likes and comments must make it seem to these people that they're important and liked, and they assume that because so many people agreed with them they're right, despite being an extreme minority. Thousands of people are a fraction of a fraction of modern populations.
It’s giving preachy church lady who says you’re going to hell for wearing a tank top. If the only thing you’re concerned about is being the Best Activist you were not doing your job in the first place.
I gotta admit, a lot of this sounds like repackaged American evangelism, but replace Jesus with vague social justice and rapture with a mythical leftist revolution
This is the exact same problem with people calling for a general strike on twitter. Like a general strike would be fantastic for some many reasons but if you're hearing about a general strike from twitter there is no general strike.
I hope they do more days of silence. Not for awareness but it’s nice not having white teenagers grandstand about how I’m an evil person for buying a cake pop from Starbucks.
Reminds me of a meme.
The Myth of Consensual Warfare:
Israel: I consent
Hamas: I consent.
Isn't there some body you forgot to ask?
Random Protestor in America: I don't.
Whatever you think about the accuracy of their thoughts, most Israelis and Palestinians view the other as an existential threat. Short of America going all in with boots on the ground and blowing the shit out of both sides, the war will continue.
The problem being that winning is very difficult to define. Once upon a time it was break through the enemy lines, kill their king and force whoever else happens to be in the room to sign a piece of paper saying you won.
Unfortunately, even since the world wars no one has really been able to find a win condition for armed conflict that isn't either diplomatic or amounts to "kill everyone you see until the other side can't fight any more and gives up". And given how diplomatic resolutions have amounted to essentially delaying the very same war between Israel and Palestine that's been going on since 1948 when Israel declared itself an independant state, 'winning' is likely just going to be whoever kills the other better. A lot of death getting to that point though.
Yeah, I've had to take a step back and breath because I was like this when everything started. It was definitely misplaced anger and feeling helpless to do anything while I'm watch atrocities happen on my insta feed.
Now I'm still going to protests and marches, but I think I'm less frantic and lashing out at everyone who isn't doing all the "right" things. I've also gotten into canvassing for local politics, which has been rewarding.
All this to say, I think a lot of this purity testing comes from that feeling of helplessness. Add all the fun things that come with being a teenager and you get this.
You are not going to change a teenager's mind by saying that all that they value is wrong, teach them how they can achieve what they value or atleast steer the world towards it, peace after 30 years is better than peace never, small changes in political landscape today can have huge impact decades later.
They want to do good too.
Try to tell them their time would be better spent volunteering at an org or charity. They’ll inevitably make some excuse about why arguing on the internet is better.
It’s hard to tell the grifters from the well-intentioned. A lot of the time it isn’t worth trying. Really the only thing to do is to be the good “role model” and hope people mature past it.
The issue is that teens have not internalized the thing that adults have all become acclimated to, ie sometimes the nation you are a part of will commit some horrendous atrocity and you can only watch. That is something you just have to learn on your own, because it's so insane that trying to teach it to someone sounds monstrous.
Eventually everyone comes around to some degree to the healthier mindset of accepting that those things are happening and understanding that while you technically could do something about it in some microscopic way, not doing so does not greatly devalue you as a person. It isn't the same thing as the people living down the road from a concentration camp.
Or, to put it another way, they cling to whatever they believe might have an impact because they can't make sense of how a society could just have no way to stop it.
True, but also, is it really peace if you have to let so many brutalities happen until there is peace because otherwise you're "forcing other people"?
I can understand what you say, but we're also reaching a point in which we are recognizing that all but the most extreme methods of protest and sabotage are useless to get ourselves to be heard by powerful people
That has been the case since the inception of civilization. Powerful people will not listen unless a large portion of the populace decide to make them listen. There has never been sweeping societal change just because everyone went "hey y'all, how about we do this?". Its been famine, disease, or bloodshed that has made people sit up and listen. Acting like its all of a sudden different is just ignorant.
something something the road to hell is paved with good intentions and it's a lot easier to spread hate and inflammatory remarks, especially when doing so gets you social credit in your cliques.
The fandomification of real tragedies, with real body counts behind them, really grosses me out.
Grossed me out seeing redditors larping about how theyre gonna go to ukraine and fight the ruskies in the past. Grossed me out seeing the people calling for the death of russians for not fighting against putin enough. The constant, performative cries of SLAVA UKRAINI...(Luckily, most of them got bored and have stopped that at least.)
Grosses me out now seeing people draw 'fanart' (does she want fans? Of her darkest moments? That shes too young to really understand yet?) Of a little girl wearing a tattered princess dress, receiving a piece of bread. The misinfo of her being Palestinian. She is from Pakistan. That one sticks out to me- bit weird to be making fanart of actual children anyway- not even actors playing a role, or fictional characters- but then to, through sheer laziness, erase her lived experiences. When there are so. Just SO MANY videos and pictures of palestinians suffering already?!
It makes my skin crawl, and is extremely fucking digusting. I'm sorry. This is what living in echo chambers does to people, I swear. Convinces them to treat real people, who they claim to defend, as fictional blorbos from their shows. And to treat reality with less nuance than their favourite shows, too.
Like, Im not stupid. I get WHY theyre doing it. They want to feel like they can help. And if you cant protest, and cant donate, your options are limited. If the only thing you know how to do is draw, it makes sense to pick up a pencil.
Just. I dont know. Fact check before you make drawings of a three year old? Would you want someone, through ignorance, to lie about your little sibling? Would you want their image pasted all over the internet?
Sometimes, we just have to sit with the reality that we cant fix everything. We cant save everyone. If youre a teen, it isnt your fault that the world is shit. So please dont blame yourself for not doing more. One day, you will have a job and will be able to donate more money. You will have a vote in your national elections. You will have more oppotunities to let your voice be heard. Use this time you have to really take in the world, and figure out where you stand.
I hope this little girl grows up. And i hope she doesnt see the voyeuristic way people treated her suffering.
I used to be on Tiktok, from 2020 to 2023. It was a fun little place to watch people dance, and to occasionally see a handsome man flex for me. Up until October 7, 2023, the influencers stayed in their lanes, talking about fashion, entertainment, and endorsed their various products.
Then the attacks on Gaza escalated.
Next thing I knew, a woman who normally discussed movies and TV, and the WGA/SAG-AFTRA strikes, suddenly was bundled in a blanket, huddling, telling me how to feel about Gaza being bombed. "Don't look away! They can't look away!"
Pretty soon, it was a whole pack of people, talking about how we should feel. Even when Gazans themselves posted about how they resented being used for these influencers' content, the influencers just kept on. Part of their content was arguing with people about which stores not to shop at, or which foods not to buy, etc.
So, I deleted my account.
TL;DR: I would rather watch the Gazans' own posts, rather than an influencer's.
Someone in my friend circle said something along the lines of “Good, the less Russians in the world the better” fully serious when I joked about hoping a Russian game dev (Nikita of EFT) would die.
The black and white viewpoint that many people are adopting in world events is terrible. Suddenly all Russians are bad, all israelis are bad, all palestinians are good, including hamas, all Ukrainians are good. There is always a gray area, something that people are completely ignoring, and it's leading to extreme and even violent views.
Art is an act of communication. The moment an AI has something to communicate with its art, it's a silicon person, and the artificiality of its intelligence is totally immaterial.
Till then, it's an easy-bake oven.
Also why do so many people go "Isnotreal" or such.
Like its so fucking childish. Tha name is funny if an Israeli teen is complaining about school sucking. But you are trying to be a serious fucking activist.
Childish name calling is not helpful. It just makes you look like an immature brat.
====
Here the ugly reality.
You \[as a US citizen\]. Have zero impact or influence to effect the conflict in a meaingful way. At best you can generate and support aid agencies that seek to alleiviate the crisis or uplift pro-peace voices \[across both Israel and Palestein side, seriously both state actors in cotnrol are anti-peace\]. But you persoanlly? cant do much.
On the topic of childish name calling, people calling Trump “Drumpf” as if it means something is just so stupid to me. Instead of calling him names, bring up the shit he’s done
Also if your starting point is “this country is illegitimate and the seven million Jews of the Levant should be sent back into exile” you simply are not engaging with the reality of the situation. Israel has won against much worse odds with no allies, and now it’s a nuclear-armed country. It’s hip to insist that peace somehow involves Israel disappearing, but that simply isn’t going to happen and inhabiting that fantasy world isn’t productive.
Right. Israel's not going anywhere; it's a nuclear-armed power. Even if it somehow starts losing a war, it - like any nuclear-armed power - will turn its enemies' cities into radioactive craters before succumbing.
Not likely seeing how even a small nuke would have devastating effects on Israel itself but it will certainly leverage them in the international scene.
The far right in Israel don't care about that though. There were cabinet members screaming about nuking Palestine a couple of months ago. The extremists don't care what happens to them as long as they exterminate the Arabs around them, and unfortunately a lot of those extremists are in positions of power right now.
Well, as long as the country your specifically in isn't involved it the war you (probably) won't get nuked. So if you're somewhere like Saudi Arabia which isn't going to invade anytime soon, you're in the clear.
Gotta love “leftists” who cannot help but associate the concept of decolonization with genocide/ethnic cleansing despite that at no step being a part of the process. Really showing once again that white leftism starts and ends with whatever helps white people the most
Oh no, they know thats where their logic leads, they just know it will never happen to them. Personally i feel like these people are wanting salvatiom through the destruction of Israel/Israeli people, that way they dont ever have to come to terms with their own colonial actions/institutions.
The whole “Israhell” or “Isnotreal” thing is so fucking funny to me. It’s literally just schoolyard name-calling. You’re not saying something revolutionary or challenging the status quo, you’re not making some grand political statement, you’re outing yourself as a childish moron who can’t have an actual conversation about complex historical and geopolitical topics.
I saw someone say "IOF" a few months ago (before 7.10) and thought "that's so fucking funny. I'm not even gonna say anything" (which is an approach people should take more online.) People are now constantly saying it. It's become more pitiful than funny
>Also why do so many people go "Isnotreal" or such.
Because they can't even handle the fact that Israel exists. It's not that they don't agree with Israel's actions or its current government, they don't want peace. They want war unless their side is losing.
The fact that “the seven million Jews of the Levant should be killed or sent back into exile” is a semi-acceptable policy belief in some otherwise progressive circles is one of the most baffling political realities right now.
Until they are reminded that sending Israeli Jews into exile in the countries their grandparents were born would end up sending Israelis to Iraq and Yemen. Not to mention either country would refuse to take anyone in the first place.
Attempting to even talk about the bulk expulsion of Jews from the Arab world that happened in parallel to the European Holocaust generally gets you stonewalled with denialism.
Also not even considering how poorly it would go if Europe suddenly had to take in 7 millions Jews given how far gone a lot of the right already is for blaming all of the world's problems on "(((them)))"
It would absolutely embolden and empower fascist elements in Europe and be unsafe for everyone involved
Ironically Jewish refugees would probably receive a less hostile reception because they're "culturally European"... until antisemitism comes into it, naturally.
Also, Israel is a nuclear-armed country. Like every other nuclear-armed country, it has the ultimate “don’t fuck with us” button of “we will cause the apocalypse if we have to.” Disestablishing Israel as a state is simply not a thing that can happen.
And even if you somehow manage to disestablish Israel without Netanyahu pushing the apocalypse button, those nukes have to go SOMEWHERE, and literally none of Israel's immediate neighbours are someone we want having access to that arms stockpile. So what then, have the US squat on them? I'm sure that would go over well
And we’ve already seen from the Syrian Civil War how Europe reacts to a mass wave of immigrants. There’s been an alarming uptick in Islamophobia ever since the refugees started arriving
Europe is already having problems with anti-semitism as well and that would only get exponentially worse if the Jews were expelled from Israel
People try to deny it by saying that it was actually Israel who did false flag attacks which caused Jews to flee the Middle East
Ignoring that governments, like Egypt, made official state orders [expelling jews from their country](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/1956%E2%80%931957_exodus_and_expulsions_from_Egypt), there’s no proof that Israel executed false flag attacks to force Jews to emigrate
Fucking obviously
You can make anyone believe anything as long as you use what they know, like once one here I saw one person say that Jews are a wealthy minority,which is just the idea that Jews control the banks and the eat the rich rethoric.
It’s not shocking at all when every progressive space that isn’t r/politics level mainstream has been taken over by tankies. The most influential leftist is ducking Hamas Piker.
Who doesn’t think that Jews should be expelled from Israel and think’s October 7th was a heinous crime (that still has context behind it). I agree with most of his Israel/Palestine takes as an Israeli, which is becoming increasingly rare to say about anyone. I don’t see the problem, tbh.
Adding to the confusion, large groups of protesters have been putting pressure on their local city councils to officially call for a ceasefire across the US and Canada.
I'm an annoyingly opinionated dude but I'm just kind of at a loss when it comes to even beginning to describe how meaningless it is to have your podunk Oregan city council call for a ceasefire.
People seem to think that the President is all-powerful and can just stop all the aid going to Israel when that is very much not how it works and it’s far more complicated than that
i'm fairly sure reagan personally stopped israel from shelling lebanon a few years back through a single phone call tho? idk i'm not from any of the involved countries
It's a little different now.
Biden could, hypothetically, use his presidential veto to strike down any and all military aid destined for Israel that Congress passes but the presidential Veto is used very sparingly because it costs the President quite a bit of political capital.
For context, Trump used the veto 10 times in his tenure and Obama used it 12 times total.
The argument about whether Biden could throw the US's influence around to pressure Israel to stop military activities in Gaza is a lot more nebulous. Other presidents have done it in the past to varying degrees of effectiveness but the current conflict exists within the context of October 7th which has made Israel alot more dedicated to their current military operations than they have been to specific military operations in the past.
If Biden were to put enormous pressure on Israel to cease military operations, even temporarily, and it *failed*, the US would take a non-trivial blow to their perceived influence over the conflict and the region. That loss of influence/percieved weakness/degradation of the US's relationship with Israel is not a risk that can be taken lightly, especially going into an election year(he would essentially be handing a major winning talking point to the republicans, especially considering that alot of their rhetoric is already focused on him being a weak leader).
Ah, my bad, misread on my part.
Yeah, Biden's policy history has been pretty Israel-friendly and he doesnt strike me as populist enough to 180 on that precedent.
>reagan
>a few years back
Over 35 years have passed since Reagan's last day in office and in those 3 and half decades, Isreal's ability to wage war without US support has vastly increased.
Also, Lebanon wasn't a borderline failed state at the time, so the circumstances were much different.
Protests could potentially have an impact on people who are not the president and the american government as a whole has a gargantuan amount of impact on the world stage in every area.
People turned against iraq eventually in both parties. It's not impossible. And I think people who care about human lives and talk about humanitarian issues generally do not deserve the amount of shit they get.
It's like a reverse form of American exceptionalism, but instead of America being responsible for everything good, it's responsible for everything bad. To them, if a bad thing is happening, America is responsible. Because of that they think if they do something in America, they will make it stop.
“Don’t send money to Israel while they’re doing horrible things” is the most disingenuous definition of World Police possible and I’m here for it. When you think about it, it really is a brutal overreach of American might to not fund Israel’s military.
Everybody knows to boycott McDonald's! Except like... I've only heard it in passing on Twitter and like none of the people I know IRL or who even WORK at McDonald's knows there's a boycott.
Like for all the hours you spent on a stupid hamburger place that hasn't lost a penny you could have been supporting greater things or voices that actually need help.
Except no, I've watched teens burn up their friendlists and their own mental health because they need to morality police everyone all of the time. I feel like the medieval Vatican is more lenient than them sometimes.
Like it's 100% good to care, but they seem to focus on burning their imperfect allies alive versus the people that are actually causing harm.
Always letting 'perfect be the enemy of good.'
ETA:
Like this isn't supposed to be some attack on activism but like there are listed charities and causes that are out there to help! Please listen to them and what they ask for! Like your grandma isn't a zionist neo nazi traitor to the cause because she couldn't have possibly known about your Twitter bubble! Most people are kind and can be spoken to, so maybe breaking their knees for wrong think isn't the place to start.
A growing portion of people are acting as if activism is just… a purity test about your own values and thoughts. Instead of actually *doing something to help* they say « I don’t support x or y so I’m good » and they leave it at that.
Like the people who hate JKR. Soooo many times I see « how can you even like HP anymore!!! You’re evil!!! ». They think they’re good because they hate HP. No. This ain’t how that works. You want change? You want people to stop giving JKR their money? Focus on encouraging the boycott of official merch, games and movies. Don’t tell people they’re evil for liking the series. All you’ll achieve is making them hate you.
Teenage online “activists” treat what’s happening in Gaza like it’s a sports game that has to be “won” and if you dare to acknowledge that it isn’t quite that simple, then you’re on the wrong “team.” It was a similar kind of performative activism that we saw (and still see) regarding Ukraine. Terms like “pro-Palestine” and “pro-Israel” are so ridiculously reductive it’s almost funny. Almost.
If your “activism” involves advocating for the displacement and eradication of an entire people, then you don’t truly care about the value of human life. You’re just hateful and using an outlet for that which you think makes you look good and it is not at all helpful to the Palestinians or the hostages. And the saddest thing is actually, it’s not just teenagers who are doing it at all.
I wish it wasn’t so difficult for people to stop turning compassion into a dichotomy.
I think a big part of it is online, everything is a dichotomy. Click or don't click. Like or dislike. Upvote or downvote. Everything has to be reduced to a catchy slogan because people have an attention span of three seconds. The Internet is a very polarized place
That’s very true. It reminds me of that old Facebook boomer “LIKE FOR JESUS IGNORE TO GO TO HELL” thing except now it’s a purity test on whether you’re sad enough about a war or a genocide that you, as a random person scrolling on the internet many miles away, can’t realistically do much about, and shouldn’t be EXPECTED to try to do too much about.
The most you can do is stay informed, use the resources available to you, and, if you can afford it, donate. But shaming people for not watching bombing videos or buying McDonald’s is not the way.
I had someone call me a "useful idiot" over Ukraine because I advocated using critical thinking to look at the facts of the situation and determine the most beneficial course of action rather than mindlessly repeating "war bad!" with them.
So apparently I'm a sheep for calling Russia's blatant and repeated violations of Ukrainian sovereignty "aggression". Okay, sure Jan.
It’s especially bad when it comes to the War in Israel. This whole thing has seemed to turn everyone to factory default settings. You sure do see a lot of armchair geopolitical strategists and extremists on the internet now.
My thing is watching people try to struggle between antisemitism and Islamophobia, and be able to think critically about none of the information they’re receiving. Like those were actually not supposed to be the only choices.
Agreed. It's a very complex and Grey conflict with a ton of layers and viewpoints, and it's scary how many people treat it like a football game and root for a side.
I actually think it’s very simple to say that Israel is targeting indiscriminately. They have one of the world’s most advanced militaries, they can absolutely accomplish their goals without incurring this kind of civilian collateral damage. They’re also destroying illegal targets and claiming military necessity. They *are* committing war crimes.
What I don’t vibe with is the sudden influx of “antisemitism is alright because a government of an religious ethnostate is killing civilians” and the opposite fear mongering by a lot of Zionists that every Palestinian is a part of Hamas and deserves to die. People don’t seem to grasp that Hamas has an incredibly powerful disinformation network. Israel has one as well, but to my knowledge they’re not as good at it and they concentrate their energy into other areas of the conflict. They don’t really need disinformation as much because they count on the veto power of the USA in the United Nations Security Council (as they have for decades) and they have superior firepower.
I’m against the actions of the IDF. I’m part of the boycotts. But you *have to* be critical of the information that’s being fed to you. Most of it is meant to radicalize people, and it’s working.
I agree with what you've said here, but I'd also like to add that I'm pretty uncomfortable with people saying that Israel shouldn't exist at all. I don't love the way Israel came to be, but there's a good reason why the country exists now and there isn't a realistic option to dissolve the country without making things worse.
Directly? The US isn't running sorties, that's direct involvement. We're directly running sorties in Yemen that are doing *really bad things* there.
*Indirectly*, the US does provide certain military assistance to Israel. Current aid, however, isn't being used there, as current aid is better suited to buffering against Iran. You could argue that this makes it easier for them to spend on their domestic military gains, but that's still an indirect assistance and not direct.
Exactly! BDS movement isn’t a twitter trend, it’s an actual organization that has *had success before.* https://bdsmovement.net/Act-Now-Against-These-Companies-Profiting-From-Genocide
And, yeah, if it cheers someone up— people who most certainly need comfort right now— then drawing fictional characters supporting Palestine is a worthwhile use of time. The title is overly pessimistic at best.
Listen. As long as there are Palestinian Tenkaichi fans and they will be comforted by my art I am goddamn gonna draw it. Also there is a notable Palestinian fan of Gojo on twt who was injured and could not draw, but mustered up the strength to draw Gojo again. Characters and stories matter more than we think.
Politics as a spectator sport is killing democracy and social media is handing over the gun.
A big part of why so many people's takes are so completely one sided and lacking in real, deep nuance is because so many of us, not even just the younger generations, have adopted a mindset that it's about "our team" winning, which takes precedence over all else. A Palestinian kid chokes a little on some water given to them by an IDF soldier? Proof that the Israeli people have a mindless, insect-like drive to kill children and are all monsters. Hamas flips out one day and just starts gunning their own people down? Proof that the Israeli people have a mindless insect-like drive to kill children and are all monsters. Domestic politician in your country does something reprehensible? You get the point by now...
And I'm not specifically singling out Palestine supporters as being unique in this, or making any points specifically about the Gaza war: it's literally every major political fault line in basically every country these days, to the extent that actual politicians and media pundits have started taking part in the kind of virtue signalling nonsense that used to be the preserve of permanently online, opinionated weirdos on social media.
It's an unfortunate reality of democratic systems that they're not only inherently fragile and unstable in many ways, but that they're *specifically* weak to this kind of nonsense. I feel a bit like I'm going crazy watching our democratic systems being eroded because we need to get one up on the opposition.
What annoys me most is those kinds of people often give a vibe I don’t know how to articulate in English,like “only black and white,100 or 0,anything slightly different is against me there for immoral “ as they care more about how loud they can scream into other’s ears and look down on them.
The worst thing is,they make themselves to be some kind of savior of human yet they don’t see the other side as people.
In which OP actively spits on BDS, a movement created by Palestinians which has had actual successes in the past, because the idea of boycotting is apparently too radical for the modern left. I swear, nearly everyone in this sub would call themself a leftist but then the moment any actual leftist political action occurs half the sub declares the idea of protest itself to be too far
If they only boycott things that BDS told them to there would not have been a problem. The issue is that people boycott stuff that were never called for by credible orgs and just decided by a few unsourced tweets. Things like Starbucks boycott (which does not even have a branch in Israel) actively detract from effectiveness of the action. Even BDS themselves point out that boycott are at their most effective when they are organized and focused on a few targets and it is easier for people to engage if there is only a small list rather than a gigantic one where if you even touch a single thing on there you will get harassed for "supporting genocide"
The title mentions Burger King, which is listed as an “organic boycott target” by BDS and is supported as a target by them. Maybe you’re making this fair argument, but the OP was not
This whole sub seems to be full of people complaining how others have actual sincere goals and aren’t just sitting on the sidelines making fun of it like them.
I cannot believe I'm seeing this on a primarily non-jewish subreddit. You have no idea how happy this makes me. I have received so much shit from leftist goyim my trust in these circles I used to feel somewhat safe in has decreased exponentially. Like, I have received death threats for talking about antisemitism, existing as a Jew, begging people not to fandomize the conflict, spread vile antisemitic rhetoric or support Hamas.
I'm sorry if that is a bit much but it's just so astounding to see. In a good way.
It's fucked up seeing people draw art of characters like Sonic saying horrible shit like "From the river to the sea!", like, A. You're forcing a fictional character to have an extreme opinion on a real world war, which is cringe as hell when you're super misinformed like most interwebs denizens are. And B. I'm an Israeli, you just drew my childhood hero calling for my death. If you can't tell, this is fucked up.
It's like you also can't be even a \*little\* patriotic if it's about the "wrong" side. I remember there was a little Israeli Spider Man drawing being clowned on, killed and brutalized by like a hundred fictional characters, simply because it's in support of Israel. Or the fact that simply supporting Israeli businesses is somehow supporting genocide, like if you create a website on Wix it's suddenly directly responsible for a missile hitting a little girl you don't actually care about somewhere.
It's so obviously uninformed and superficial and I just hate being on the internet these days.
If people could stop behaving like the solution to the Gaza war is to exile 7 million Jews, most of whom were born there, and exile them to countries that they've never been to, many of which are actively hostile to Jews, that would be fucking great.
Try dipping your toes in the echo chambers of the Zionist side. These mfs really doing their best Nazi impression, trying to excuse shooting held down 15 year olds in the neck and blowing up an escaping civilian car along with the ambulance sent to rescue a dying 6 year old.
The problem, IMO, is that it's meaningless. Saying that Hatsune Miku supports Palestine does not feed starving children or bring an end to the war. All it does is make you feel better.
Admittedly, it also does no harm, but that's insufficient.
Also while this is such a fringe case admittedly because the crossover between fandom blorbos and actual discussion of actual real life colonialism is very slim, but you do sometimes get people applying it to characters which just, kinda out yourself as have absolutely *no* media literacy
Like I'm not talking like "oh this character is an analogy for this thing so you can't make them say that" here I saw someone do it to a pair of characters who are a French colonist in 1930's Algeria and and someone who actively calls for crusades in the middle east against Muslims and it broke my brain for a good few minutes
to be fair, it's a bit of a lofty expectation to think that American Twitter teenagers have the capacity to meaningfully affect a genocide. sometimes showing support is all you can do
I understand and sympathize. I feel guilty sometimes about how little I can meaningfully do about the genocide. However, let us be honest with ourselves about that guilt instead of claiming that our posting is actually activism.
It can't be healthy for teenagers to constantly purity test themselves and each other over what they eat or watch
It's not and it's gonna have consequences. I was a sophomore when Bin Laden decided to do some sudden, unscheduled urban redevelopment. Now, some teens were down with the whole jingoistic "let's kill em all and let God sort it out", myself included, but that was honestly the overall attitude of the country as a whole at the time. There were a few peacenik weirdos that opposed the wars, Iraq more than Afghanistan. There was even one kid that wore a black armband every day and openly called Bush a war criminal. All in all, most kids had no strong opinion either way and chalked it up to "I don't think the government cares what I think" and went about their day and lives. However, social media has changed the game and there's this weird pressure where you have to take a stand for the cause or you'll get drowned out by the algorithm and accused by both sides of being complicit in Bad Things.
“Sudden, unscheduled urban redevelopment” is the funniest way I’ve heard someone refer to 9/11.
Fr I laughed, I wish I was that witty
I'll be honest - that sounds exactly the same as now.
One big difference was that you didn't have to worry about being named and shamed for having no opinion. Also, it was totally different. For the first time since Pearl Harbor, we were the undisputed aggrieved party, and oh boy were we cashing those chips in. Bush went from being controversially not Al Gore to the great man who was gonna open up a can of whoop ass. Now, the honeymoon period didn't last forever, but for the first 6 to 12 months, it was overwhelming nationalist solidarity.
Bush went from 50% approval to 85% basically overnight. I don’t think that had happened before and certainly not since.
Pearl harbor probably was similar
Was curious, so I looked it up. FDR was already pretty popular, so not nearly as large of a jump. He went from 72% to 84%. I was also incorrect, Bush went from 51% to 90%, not 50% to 85%. Source: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rally_%27round_the_flag_effect
Yeah, FDR’s approval went from “great” to “astronomical.” I jest, but the dude was already popular, to the extent he had just become the first person *ever* to succeed in getting a third term as president just the year before.
As a kid then who didn't like the idea of going to war, I absolutely was bullied for being a pacifist. Constant shaming for not passing the purity test of the zeitgeist. Not being happy about war meant being socially excluded.
Yeah same. Though I had a few other kids around me who thought similarly because we had a friend whose dad died when we invaded.
I’m exactly your age and you’re misremembering this. The whole “we’re all united behind retribution” thing lasted barely a few months. Bush and Cheney pivoted very quickly from focusing on the terrorists to warmongering against Iraq, and a LOT of people opposed this. By 2003 there were massive protests all over the world (and walkouts in many high schools) against a war that many of us young men fully expected we’d be drafted into. It wasn’t a few weirdo kids, it was a massive international effort.
\>a few peacenik weirdos that opposed the wars, Iraq more than Afghanistan. There was even one kid that wore a black armband every day and openly called Bush a war criminal. These were the ppl that were proven right by history.
that's not new though that's the principal between public stonings, witch trials and mcarthyism
You’re saying the kids back then who opposed the Iraq War were weirdoes, and not giving a fuck would have been better?
Your point mosly makes sense, but why do think its a bad thing for young people to have opinions about things? These topics are complicated and muanced yet, but why do you feel like teenagers shouldnt have the right to care about a topic?
It's not bad for people to care. The problem is when people care about an issue so much it defines their entire being and attack others for not sharing their same opinion. It's self destructive.
As I sad, I think social media has changed the game. It acts as such a force multiplier to every aspect of navigating the social scene which was extremely difficult for teens before every fault and foible could be recorded and posted for all to see. How many kids are going to look back at themselves chanting "From the river to the sea" after they have realized a decades old call for indiscriminate slaughter isn't edgy, it's atrocious. Frankly, I'm really glad there isn't video of me talking about how Afghanistan should be turned into a glass parking lot when I was 16 and full of self righteous anger.
Are you saying that “peacenik weirdos” and bloodthirsty war hawks are just two sides of the same coin and the proper response is to just be complacent and go about your day? r/enlightenedcentrist moment
Bin Laden needed to be brought to justice. He'd already gotten away with the 1993 bombing and he was emboldened to try again on a larger scale and look where that got us. The Taliban was given the opportunity to surrender him to the US and they told America to fuck off. To allow such an act to go unpunished would have encouraged further attacks on Americans. Obviously, some sort of military response was justified and proper but "nuke every square inch of Afghanistan", which was a somewhat popular sentiment at the time, was probably a bit excessive. So, yeah, enlightened centrism was sort of the winner of the day in that scenario.
All that, and he wasn't even in Afghanistan. It was a very enlightened operation.
The Afghanistan war was a 20 year long multi trillion dollar disaster that resulted in 46,000 dead civilians, millions of refugees (undeniably a greater toll of human suffering than 9/11 several times over) and ultimately a Taliban victory. But at least we got Bin Laden 🤪🤪🤪
Our inability to execute the objectives doesn't mean that the pursuit of those objectives was not necessary and proper. It was a military victory that ultimately ended in a political defeat. The truth is that pacifying an insurgency is extremely difficult under the constraints of modern warfare. The occupying force has a rule book and multiple abstract goals. The resistance has no rules and a single concrete goal: win.
To add to this, Aghanistan isnt even a fucking country, the people there have very little concept of national identity, its irrelevant to them, they care more about their ethnic identity, whether your Pashtun or Tajik or Hazara or Uzbek or one of the dozen or so other ethnic minorities matters a helluva lot more than being "Afghani". That isnt even getting into the economics of the country, and how unindustrialized vast swathes of it are and the profound lack of any kind of modern infrastructure outside of the major cities, simply put, its a fucking mess caused by the British and French drawing nations around where the oil was without a thought to the people living in the regions.
The great benefit, and great flaw, of social mefia is that it allows you to communicate anything you like (words, pictures, videos) with any message you please (especially as moderation is generally crappy so there’s little to no oversight like there can be in person), to almost anyone anywhere. So if your message is misinformed, or malicious, you can plant the seed of terrible things in peoples minds very quickly.
Why do you think so many teens are depressed these days? Humans weren’t built to handle constant exposure to global atrocities and it takes an even greater toll on kids
I am Ukrainian and I think that I made a mistake in wanting to know what other people think about the situation in my country. As a result, in order not to constantly be in hatred and despair, I cleaned out my Internet to such an extent that only entertainment remained. and in general I try to spend as little time as possible on the Internet.
I’m in the states and I volunteer with two local orgs founded by Ukrainians who help gather funding for medical equipment used by civilians and military personnel. I know a lot of people have badly formed opinions, or it seems like a lot of people don’t care, but there are still people out there that are trying to help and stay informed. Can’t say I disagree that staying off the internet is better for the view of humanity, though…
Good call, tbh. My block list on Tumblr is a mile long and includes so many world politics buzzwords
Guy on Reddit recently told me he doesnt listen to science because it’s “propaganda” that’s used to control us and tell us what to think. Checked his account, he believes in everything astrology. He also believes in nephilims. My guy believes in anything that doesn’t have evidence because i guess… that’s science, and he doesnt like that
Ok this is so sad. I went to check his account to find his account has been deleted. Gone. Maybe banned. This is terrible, i miss him, i want to see his delusional takes again. RIP Bozo, miss you brother
The death of a legend… 🫡
Here’s the literal post where im sat here arguing with him. I know you shouldn’t argue with stupid people but I couldn’t help it, it was very fun https://www.reddit.com/r/facepalm/s/IUD5UOkYjo
Bro said “minority doesn’t mean wrong” like wow, way to put yourself on a pedestal
He's been spirited away by the nephilim to live in agartha with hitler and martha stewart
where did Hitler come from
Some conspiracy gibberish about him fleeing into hollow earth instead of dying. At least that's how I think it goes
He didn’t need to flee into hollow earth, Argentina was right there
yeah all he had to do was ask the red army very nicely not to immediately execute him despite them still being upset about that whole invading them, calling for the mass murder of their entire ethnic group, killing millions of people including millions of russians, burning down everything from warsaw to Stalingrad, and all the concentration camps they saw on the way to Berlin
All he has to do is shave that mustache and everyone would be like “Hitler???? Where?????”
Austria
Like, in a polycule, or...?
Honestly, I choose to believe in the occult for fun, mostly. I stake nothing on its validity and make decisions as though it’s not real. However, life is more enjoyable if I say it is real so I go along with it.
I never really thought much about it on a meta-level, but am realising this description fits me pretty well. I love anything "occult" and make the active choice to believe in things like demons, spirits, divination, ESP, etc, just because it's fun to and makes the world a little more mysterious/cool to me. But I've also never considered allowing any of those beliefs to influence anything important in my life; it's basically just set dressing. So, I always felt weird when asked about my religious/spiritual beliefs, as they're not something I let actually impact my life beyond fun thought-rabbit-holes and little occasional "rituals" (like doing a tarot or rune reading, or saying a short prayer for good luck/inspiration to a particular entity).
It's funny how *everyone* has their own superstitions. I remember reading a post about the [peculiar beliefs of grad students in the lab](https://preview.redd.it/tivys2dvrnm21.jpg). It seems to be a part of human nature to have little rituals for good fortune and no amount of worldly knowledge or technology has changed that.
This is why I think the Chaos Magick position of "it's all bullshit anyway" is the one that works best. Also, Alan Moore talking about magick and creativity being essentially the same thing.
science is litterally the opposite of propaganda. Modern studies have to be reproductible, account for biases and prevent them when possible (something something double-blind), and thoroughly explain everything they're doing logically. There are still issues like the tobacco smokescreen studies, and I wouldn't be surprised if there was a bit of corruption in the field, but there are LOTS of safeguards that prevent that from being too much of an issue.
Just saw a guy say cancer isn’t deadly but chemotherapy is.
Hold the fuck up I JUST saw that post lmao
I mean chemo is just *barely* not deadly, but he's still incredibly wrong
Chemo is definitely deadly. It’s literally poison straight into your veins, relying on the fact that you have more non-cancer cells than cancer cells so you can hopefully outlast it. Not that it isn’t an incredible advancement in medicine, but it’s terrible too.
Not exactly. Chemo kills fast replicating cells, which includes cancer cells. It also includes hair, which is why hair falls out.
Wtf I just saw that post
same energy as this weird FB group I found once that claims the "HIV doesn't exist and it's the treatment that kills people". it's so infuriating
I got banned from a subreddit because I voiced my support for Ukraine. The mod's reasoning was "by supporting Ukraine you support ongoing warfare and young people dying. I am not going to allow a murder supporter on this subreddit".
That's insane. What are they supposed to do then, hold hands and chant kumbaya while Putin invades their country? Like, Putin is murdering people too???
I do not presume to understand the tankie mind.
That happened to me as well. Some Reddit mods are entirely out of their mind (or else tankies).
What's the difference?
All tankies are out of their mind, but not everyone out of their mind is a tankie.
I like this approach. It's objecting to the correct part of the equivalence. "Look, I may be crazy, but at least I'm not an authoritarian."
Well that mod is _actually_ a genocide supporter.
Which sub was it?
Don't remember. One of the left wing subs that start good but get taken over by terminally online tankies. The usual.
only one that comes to my mind is r/TheRightCantMeme
That's all left wing subs. r/antiwork is the only one I know that hasn't been completely destroyed by tankie brainrot.
There was a bunch of people on Twitter a few days ago who wanted to do a "day of silence" where they'd use their platforms to promote visibility for Palestine, which I think is a good thing on its own. However, there was a lot of people who said that if you don't participate, then you're actively "burying posts about Palestine" and are just as evil for it and "selfish for not giving up talking about your own interests for a day" And like ??????
People on Twitter really have an overinflated sense of their own impact on the world. They think activism is just about saying the right things and whether your "activism" achieves anything is irrelevant
I heard an interview a while ago with a guy from Extinction Rebellion/Just Stop Oil in which he explicitly states that's his goal. Edit: [About 42:30-43:00 ish](https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/m001r7jn), IDK how region locking will be on the site.
Of course it's from Just Stop Oil. I wouldn't be surprised if they're paid by oil execs because their "protests" are the stupidest. Sitting down in the middle of an active F1 race and they also tried to destroy art just because the paint used had the word oil in it.
It wasnt even f1 but formela E, you know the one where they race elertric cars with no burning of fossil fuels...
Iirc, Just Stop Oil is funded by an oil baron and is intentionally pulling ridiculous protests out of their ass to make environmentalists look like clowns
They were funded by a group that distributes funding to multiple environmental causes, which in itself was funded by a lady that inherited a bunch of oil money and started giving it away to counteract the effects of where it came from. The real psyop is the “Just Stop Oil is funded by an oil baron” narrative, because it’s vaguely true if you squint enough and it’s a perfect gotcha to undermine their entire movement in both the eyes of the left and the right. It’s insidious frankly.
There’s no way that’s true but if it is that’s actually the funniest thing ever lmao
I see a lot of people replying to random posts saying like "why didn't you say anything about Palestine??" Maybe because writing a tweet saying "I support Palestine" does literally nothing
It has to be something about the way engagement on social media works, and being unable to understand scale Getting 1000s of likes and comments must make it seem to these people that they're important and liked, and they assume that because so many people agreed with them they're right, despite being an extreme minority. Thousands of people are a fraction of a fraction of modern populations.
It’s giving preachy church lady who says you’re going to hell for wearing a tank top. If the only thing you’re concerned about is being the Best Activist you were not doing your job in the first place.
I gotta admit, a lot of this sounds like repackaged American evangelism, but replace Jesus with vague social justice and rapture with a mythical leftist revolution
It sounds like American evangelism because it’s also a cult.
This is the exact same problem with people calling for a general strike on twitter. Like a general strike would be fantastic for some many reasons but if you're hearing about a general strike from twitter there is no general strike.
I hope they do more days of silence. Not for awareness but it’s nice not having white teenagers grandstand about how I’m an evil person for buying a cake pop from Starbucks.
Holy shit shel silverstein
Reminds me of a meme. The Myth of Consensual Warfare: Israel: I consent Hamas: I consent. Isn't there some body you forgot to ask? Random Protestor in America: I don't. Whatever you think about the accuracy of their thoughts, most Israelis and Palestinians view the other as an existential threat. Short of America going all in with boots on the ground and blowing the shit out of both sides, the war will continue.
It will also end if one of the sides wins it.
The problem being that winning is very difficult to define. Once upon a time it was break through the enemy lines, kill their king and force whoever else happens to be in the room to sign a piece of paper saying you won. Unfortunately, even since the world wars no one has really been able to find a win condition for armed conflict that isn't either diplomatic or amounts to "kill everyone you see until the other side can't fight any more and gives up". And given how diplomatic resolutions have amounted to essentially delaying the very same war between Israel and Palestine that's been going on since 1948 when Israel declared itself an independant state, 'winning' is likely just going to be whoever kills the other better. A lot of death getting to that point though.
Pretty much. It probably doesn't help that both sides have been propagandised to see the other as subhuman.
Yeah, I've had to take a step back and breath because I was like this when everything started. It was definitely misplaced anger and feeling helpless to do anything while I'm watch atrocities happen on my insta feed. Now I'm still going to protests and marches, but I think I'm less frantic and lashing out at everyone who isn't doing all the "right" things. I've also gotten into canvassing for local politics, which has been rewarding. All this to say, I think a lot of this purity testing comes from that feeling of helplessness. Add all the fun things that come with being a teenager and you get this.
You are not going to change a teenager's mind by saying that all that they value is wrong, teach them how they can achieve what they value or atleast steer the world towards it, peace after 30 years is better than peace never, small changes in political landscape today can have huge impact decades later. They want to do good too.
Try to tell them their time would be better spent volunteering at an org or charity. They’ll inevitably make some excuse about why arguing on the internet is better. It’s hard to tell the grifters from the well-intentioned. A lot of the time it isn’t worth trying. Really the only thing to do is to be the good “role model” and hope people mature past it.
The issue is that teens have not internalized the thing that adults have all become acclimated to, ie sometimes the nation you are a part of will commit some horrendous atrocity and you can only watch. That is something you just have to learn on your own, because it's so insane that trying to teach it to someone sounds monstrous. Eventually everyone comes around to some degree to the healthier mindset of accepting that those things are happening and understanding that while you technically could do something about it in some microscopic way, not doing so does not greatly devalue you as a person. It isn't the same thing as the people living down the road from a concentration camp. Or, to put it another way, they cling to whatever they believe might have an impact because they can't make sense of how a society could just have no way to stop it.
True, but also, is it really peace if you have to let so many brutalities happen until there is peace because otherwise you're "forcing other people"? I can understand what you say, but we're also reaching a point in which we are recognizing that all but the most extreme methods of protest and sabotage are useless to get ourselves to be heard by powerful people
That has been the case since the inception of civilization. Powerful people will not listen unless a large portion of the populace decide to make them listen. There has never been sweeping societal change just because everyone went "hey y'all, how about we do this?". Its been famine, disease, or bloodshed that has made people sit up and listen. Acting like its all of a sudden different is just ignorant.
something something the road to hell is paved with good intentions and it's a lot easier to spread hate and inflammatory remarks, especially when doing so gets you social credit in your cliques.
i feel like most of the examples here are just standard issue bad takes and not like extreme next level bad takes
The fandomification of real tragedies, with real body counts behind them, really grosses me out. Grossed me out seeing redditors larping about how theyre gonna go to ukraine and fight the ruskies in the past. Grossed me out seeing the people calling for the death of russians for not fighting against putin enough. The constant, performative cries of SLAVA UKRAINI...(Luckily, most of them got bored and have stopped that at least.) Grosses me out now seeing people draw 'fanart' (does she want fans? Of her darkest moments? That shes too young to really understand yet?) Of a little girl wearing a tattered princess dress, receiving a piece of bread. The misinfo of her being Palestinian. She is from Pakistan. That one sticks out to me- bit weird to be making fanart of actual children anyway- not even actors playing a role, or fictional characters- but then to, through sheer laziness, erase her lived experiences. When there are so. Just SO MANY videos and pictures of palestinians suffering already?! It makes my skin crawl, and is extremely fucking digusting. I'm sorry. This is what living in echo chambers does to people, I swear. Convinces them to treat real people, who they claim to defend, as fictional blorbos from their shows. And to treat reality with less nuance than their favourite shows, too. Like, Im not stupid. I get WHY theyre doing it. They want to feel like they can help. And if you cant protest, and cant donate, your options are limited. If the only thing you know how to do is draw, it makes sense to pick up a pencil. Just. I dont know. Fact check before you make drawings of a three year old? Would you want someone, through ignorance, to lie about your little sibling? Would you want their image pasted all over the internet? Sometimes, we just have to sit with the reality that we cant fix everything. We cant save everyone. If youre a teen, it isnt your fault that the world is shit. So please dont blame yourself for not doing more. One day, you will have a job and will be able to donate more money. You will have a vote in your national elections. You will have more oppotunities to let your voice be heard. Use this time you have to really take in the world, and figure out where you stand. I hope this little girl grows up. And i hope she doesnt see the voyeuristic way people treated her suffering.
Worst take to come out of the Russo-Ukrainian war recently: “Poland started WW2”
They should have thought about that before they looked so invadable /s
Tbf, that's what happens when you give Putin a microphone and he's not on script. He is...special
There's also a sound on TikTok that if you use, you're somehow evacuating civilians.
Boycotting works tho? We should encourage people to boycott. Not by angrily yelling tho.
I used to be on Tiktok, from 2020 to 2023. It was a fun little place to watch people dance, and to occasionally see a handsome man flex for me. Up until October 7, 2023, the influencers stayed in their lanes, talking about fashion, entertainment, and endorsed their various products. Then the attacks on Gaza escalated. Next thing I knew, a woman who normally discussed movies and TV, and the WGA/SAG-AFTRA strikes, suddenly was bundled in a blanket, huddling, telling me how to feel about Gaza being bombed. "Don't look away! They can't look away!" Pretty soon, it was a whole pack of people, talking about how we should feel. Even when Gazans themselves posted about how they resented being used for these influencers' content, the influencers just kept on. Part of their content was arguing with people about which stores not to shop at, or which foods not to buy, etc. So, I deleted my account. TL;DR: I would rather watch the Gazans' own posts, rather than an influencer's.
Someone in my friend circle said something along the lines of “Good, the less Russians in the world the better” fully serious when I joked about hoping a Russian game dev (Nikita of EFT) would die.
The black and white viewpoint that many people are adopting in world events is terrible. Suddenly all Russians are bad, all israelis are bad, all palestinians are good, including hamas, all Ukrainians are good. There is always a gray area, something that people are completely ignoring, and it's leading to extreme and even violent views.
had an argument with someone here yesterday about the ethics of ai “art”. they, and i quote, told me i was being “ai racist.” i clocked out
Art is an act of communication. The moment an AI has something to communicate with its art, it's a silicon person, and the artificiality of its intelligence is totally immaterial. Till then, it's an easy-bake oven.
Also why do so many people go "Isnotreal" or such. Like its so fucking childish. Tha name is funny if an Israeli teen is complaining about school sucking. But you are trying to be a serious fucking activist. Childish name calling is not helpful. It just makes you look like an immature brat. ==== Here the ugly reality. You \[as a US citizen\]. Have zero impact or influence to effect the conflict in a meaingful way. At best you can generate and support aid agencies that seek to alleiviate the crisis or uplift pro-peace voices \[across both Israel and Palestein side, seriously both state actors in cotnrol are anti-peace\]. But you persoanlly? cant do much.
On the topic of childish name calling, people calling Trump “Drumpf” as if it means something is just so stupid to me. Instead of calling him names, bring up the shit he’s done
Also if your starting point is “this country is illegitimate and the seven million Jews of the Levant should be sent back into exile” you simply are not engaging with the reality of the situation. Israel has won against much worse odds with no allies, and now it’s a nuclear-armed country. It’s hip to insist that peace somehow involves Israel disappearing, but that simply isn’t going to happen and inhabiting that fantasy world isn’t productive.
Right. Israel's not going anywhere; it's a nuclear-armed power. Even if it somehow starts losing a war, it - like any nuclear-armed power - will turn its enemies' cities into radioactive craters before succumbing.
The Samson Option.
Not likely seeing how even a small nuke would have devastating effects on Israel itself but it will certainly leverage them in the international scene.
If Israel is in danger of being exterminated they’re taking their killers with them.
The far right in Israel don't care about that though. There were cabinet members screaming about nuking Palestine a couple of months ago. The extremists don't care what happens to them as long as they exterminate the Arabs around them, and unfortunately a lot of those extremists are in positions of power right now.
Hmm, you might just be right :( I really hope it doesn't come to that because I rather like living and I imagine most others around me.
Well, as long as the country your specifically in isn't involved it the war you (probably) won't get nuked. So if you're somewhere like Saudi Arabia which isn't going to invade anytime soon, you're in the clear.
I live in Israel itself lol
Gotta love “leftists” who cannot help but associate the concept of decolonization with genocide/ethnic cleansing despite that at no step being a part of the process. Really showing once again that white leftism starts and ends with whatever helps white people the most
This brand of white leftist not realizing that by their own logic they should be killed because they're on stolen land from Native Americans
Oh no, they know thats where their logic leads, they just know it will never happen to them. Personally i feel like these people are wanting salvatiom through the destruction of Israel/Israeli people, that way they dont ever have to come to terms with their own colonial actions/institutions.
Don't you remember what they called Oct 7th? "Decolonization"
The whole “Israhell” or “Isnotreal” thing is so fucking funny to me. It’s literally just schoolyard name-calling. You’re not saying something revolutionary or challenging the status quo, you’re not making some grand political statement, you’re outing yourself as a childish moron who can’t have an actual conversation about complex historical and geopolitical topics.
I saw someone say "IOF" a few months ago (before 7.10) and thought "that's so fucking funny. I'm not even gonna say anything" (which is an approach people should take more online.) People are now constantly saying it. It's become more pitiful than funny
>Also why do so many people go "Isnotreal" or such. Because they can't even handle the fact that Israel exists. It's not that they don't agree with Israel's actions or its current government, they don't want peace. They want war unless their side is losing.
The fact that “the seven million Jews of the Levant should be killed or sent back into exile” is a semi-acceptable policy belief in some otherwise progressive circles is one of the most baffling political realities right now.
Until they are reminded that sending Israeli Jews into exile in the countries their grandparents were born would end up sending Israelis to Iraq and Yemen. Not to mention either country would refuse to take anyone in the first place.
There is literally one (1) jew left in Yemen, and the Houthis put him in jail for the crime of owning a Torah
Especially when most of them were born in Israel, and most of them would be killed on sight in the countries their parents/grandparents came from.
Attempting to even talk about the bulk expulsion of Jews from the Arab world that happened in parallel to the European Holocaust generally gets you stonewalled with denialism.
Also not even considering how poorly it would go if Europe suddenly had to take in 7 millions Jews given how far gone a lot of the right already is for blaming all of the world's problems on "(((them)))" It would absolutely embolden and empower fascist elements in Europe and be unsafe for everyone involved
Not to mention how shit Europe already handles immigrants.
Ironically Jewish refugees would probably receive a less hostile reception because they're "culturally European"... until antisemitism comes into it, naturally.
Also, Israel is a nuclear-armed country. Like every other nuclear-armed country, it has the ultimate “don’t fuck with us” button of “we will cause the apocalypse if we have to.” Disestablishing Israel as a state is simply not a thing that can happen.
And even if you somehow manage to disestablish Israel without Netanyahu pushing the apocalypse button, those nukes have to go SOMEWHERE, and literally none of Israel's immediate neighbours are someone we want having access to that arms stockpile. So what then, have the US squat on them? I'm sure that would go over well
And we’ve already seen from the Syrian Civil War how Europe reacts to a mass wave of immigrants. There’s been an alarming uptick in Islamophobia ever since the refugees started arriving Europe is already having problems with anti-semitism as well and that would only get exponentially worse if the Jews were expelled from Israel
People try to deny it by saying that it was actually Israel who did false flag attacks which caused Jews to flee the Middle East Ignoring that governments, like Egypt, made official state orders [expelling jews from their country](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/1956%E2%80%931957_exodus_and_expulsions_from_Egypt), there’s no proof that Israel executed false flag attacks to force Jews to emigrate Fucking obviously
You can make anyone believe anything as long as you use what they know, like once one here I saw one person say that Jews are a wealthy minority,which is just the idea that Jews control the banks and the eat the rich rethoric.
It’s not shocking at all when every progressive space that isn’t r/politics level mainstream has been taken over by tankies. The most influential leftist is ducking Hamas Piker.
Who doesn’t think that Jews should be expelled from Israel and think’s October 7th was a heinous crime (that still has context behind it). I agree with most of his Israel/Palestine takes as an Israeli, which is becoming increasingly rare to say about anyone. I don’t see the problem, tbh.
Idk. I remember when Oct 7 happened, before Israel had started their invasion, he was already minimizing the deaths of Israeli children.
True- But that "timHouthi" interview really isn't a good look either...
I'm confused as to how protesting a continent away will affect the domestic policy of Israel. This is a genuine matter of confusion for myself.
Adding to the confusion, large groups of protesters have been putting pressure on their local city councils to officially call for a ceasefire across the US and Canada. I'm an annoyingly opinionated dude but I'm just kind of at a loss when it comes to even beginning to describe how meaningless it is to have your podunk Oregan city council call for a ceasefire.
People seem to think that the President is all-powerful and can just stop all the aid going to Israel when that is very much not how it works and it’s far more complicated than that
i'm fairly sure reagan personally stopped israel from shelling lebanon a few years back through a single phone call tho? idk i'm not from any of the involved countries
It's a little different now. Biden could, hypothetically, use his presidential veto to strike down any and all military aid destined for Israel that Congress passes but the presidential Veto is used very sparingly because it costs the President quite a bit of political capital. For context, Trump used the veto 10 times in his tenure and Obama used it 12 times total. The argument about whether Biden could throw the US's influence around to pressure Israel to stop military activities in Gaza is a lot more nebulous. Other presidents have done it in the past to varying degrees of effectiveness but the current conflict exists within the context of October 7th which has made Israel alot more dedicated to their current military operations than they have been to specific military operations in the past. If Biden were to put enormous pressure on Israel to cease military operations, even temporarily, and it *failed*, the US would take a non-trivial blow to their perceived influence over the conflict and the region. That loss of influence/percieved weakness/degradation of the US's relationship with Israel is not a risk that can be taken lightly, especially going into an election year(he would essentially be handing a major winning talking point to the republicans, especially considering that alot of their rhetoric is already focused on him being a weak leader).
It also assumes Biden, who has been a vociferous supporter of Israel for 40+ years, wants to do that.
I think Biden's personal feelings about the conflict are probably pretty low on the totem pole of factors affecting his decision-making, tbh.
it's not just his "personal feelings", it's his record as a senator and Vice President.
Ah, my bad, misread on my part. Yeah, Biden's policy history has been pretty Israel-friendly and he doesnt strike me as populist enough to 180 on that precedent.
>reagan >a few years back Over 35 years have passed since Reagan's last day in office and in those 3 and half decades, Isreal's ability to wage war without US support has vastly increased. Also, Lebanon wasn't a borderline failed state at the time, so the circumstances were much different.
Protests could potentially have an impact on people who are not the president and the american government as a whole has a gargantuan amount of impact on the world stage in every area. People turned against iraq eventually in both parties. It's not impossible. And I think people who care about human lives and talk about humanitarian issues generally do not deserve the amount of shit they get.
It's like a reverse form of American exceptionalism, but instead of America being responsible for everything good, it's responsible for everything bad. To them, if a bad thing is happening, America is responsible. Because of that they think if they do something in America, they will make it stop.
This sentiment you describe is sometimes referred to as “American Diabolism”
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Maybe I've been playing too much Civilization VI, but I thought that there were options between "send F-35s (landing)" and "send F-35s (not landing)."
“Don’t send money to Israel while they’re doing horrible things” is the most disingenuous definition of World Police possible and I’m here for it. When you think about it, it really is a brutal overreach of American might to not fund Israel’s military.
Americans often struggle to grasp the idea that there are issues in the world that aren't completely focused on them
I think most activists never really get out of their teen years. Guess it takes some level of childish optimism to be an activist in the first place.
Everybody knows to boycott McDonald's! Except like... I've only heard it in passing on Twitter and like none of the people I know IRL or who even WORK at McDonald's knows there's a boycott. Like for all the hours you spent on a stupid hamburger place that hasn't lost a penny you could have been supporting greater things or voices that actually need help. Except no, I've watched teens burn up their friendlists and their own mental health because they need to morality police everyone all of the time. I feel like the medieval Vatican is more lenient than them sometimes. Like it's 100% good to care, but they seem to focus on burning their imperfect allies alive versus the people that are actually causing harm. Always letting 'perfect be the enemy of good.' ETA: Like this isn't supposed to be some attack on activism but like there are listed charities and causes that are out there to help! Please listen to them and what they ask for! Like your grandma isn't a zionist neo nazi traitor to the cause because she couldn't have possibly known about your Twitter bubble! Most people are kind and can be spoken to, so maybe breaking their knees for wrong think isn't the place to start.
A growing portion of people are acting as if activism is just… a purity test about your own values and thoughts. Instead of actually *doing something to help* they say « I don’t support x or y so I’m good » and they leave it at that. Like the people who hate JKR. Soooo many times I see « how can you even like HP anymore!!! You’re evil!!! ». They think they’re good because they hate HP. No. This ain’t how that works. You want change? You want people to stop giving JKR their money? Focus on encouraging the boycott of official merch, games and movies. Don’t tell people they’re evil for liking the series. All you’ll achieve is making them hate you.
Teenage online “activists” treat what’s happening in Gaza like it’s a sports game that has to be “won” and if you dare to acknowledge that it isn’t quite that simple, then you’re on the wrong “team.” It was a similar kind of performative activism that we saw (and still see) regarding Ukraine. Terms like “pro-Palestine” and “pro-Israel” are so ridiculously reductive it’s almost funny. Almost. If your “activism” involves advocating for the displacement and eradication of an entire people, then you don’t truly care about the value of human life. You’re just hateful and using an outlet for that which you think makes you look good and it is not at all helpful to the Palestinians or the hostages. And the saddest thing is actually, it’s not just teenagers who are doing it at all. I wish it wasn’t so difficult for people to stop turning compassion into a dichotomy.
I think a big part of it is online, everything is a dichotomy. Click or don't click. Like or dislike. Upvote or downvote. Everything has to be reduced to a catchy slogan because people have an attention span of three seconds. The Internet is a very polarized place
That’s very true. It reminds me of that old Facebook boomer “LIKE FOR JESUS IGNORE TO GO TO HELL” thing except now it’s a purity test on whether you’re sad enough about a war or a genocide that you, as a random person scrolling on the internet many miles away, can’t realistically do much about, and shouldn’t be EXPECTED to try to do too much about. The most you can do is stay informed, use the resources available to you, and, if you can afford it, donate. But shaming people for not watching bombing videos or buying McDonald’s is not the way.
I had someone call me a "useful idiot" over Ukraine because I advocated using critical thinking to look at the facts of the situation and determine the most beneficial course of action rather than mindlessly repeating "war bad!" with them. So apparently I'm a sheep for calling Russia's blatant and repeated violations of Ukrainian sovereignty "aggression". Okay, sure Jan.
It’s especially bad when it comes to the War in Israel. This whole thing has seemed to turn everyone to factory default settings. You sure do see a lot of armchair geopolitical strategists and extremists on the internet now.
My thing is watching people try to struggle between antisemitism and Islamophobia, and be able to think critically about none of the information they’re receiving. Like those were actually not supposed to be the only choices.
Agreed. It's a very complex and Grey conflict with a ton of layers and viewpoints, and it's scary how many people treat it like a football game and root for a side.
I actually think it’s very simple to say that Israel is targeting indiscriminately. They have one of the world’s most advanced militaries, they can absolutely accomplish their goals without incurring this kind of civilian collateral damage. They’re also destroying illegal targets and claiming military necessity. They *are* committing war crimes. What I don’t vibe with is the sudden influx of “antisemitism is alright because a government of an religious ethnostate is killing civilians” and the opposite fear mongering by a lot of Zionists that every Palestinian is a part of Hamas and deserves to die. People don’t seem to grasp that Hamas has an incredibly powerful disinformation network. Israel has one as well, but to my knowledge they’re not as good at it and they concentrate their energy into other areas of the conflict. They don’t really need disinformation as much because they count on the veto power of the USA in the United Nations Security Council (as they have for decades) and they have superior firepower. I’m against the actions of the IDF. I’m part of the boycotts. But you *have to* be critical of the information that’s being fed to you. Most of it is meant to radicalize people, and it’s working.
I agree with what you've said here, but I'd also like to add that I'm pretty uncomfortable with people saying that Israel shouldn't exist at all. I don't love the way Israel came to be, but there's a good reason why the country exists now and there isn't a realistic option to dissolve the country without making things worse.
America is directly involved in the "war". It kind of makes sense for so many Americans to feel strongly about it.
Directly? The US isn't running sorties, that's direct involvement. We're directly running sorties in Yemen that are doing *really bad things* there. *Indirectly*, the US does provide certain military assistance to Israel. Current aid, however, isn't being used there, as current aid is better suited to buffering against Iran. You could argue that this makes it easier for them to spend on their domestic military gains, but that's still an indirect assistance and not direct.
I will take the correction, my point still stands. Americams have a part here whether we like it or not.
dogshit post title tbh
just trying to hit the 300 character limit
i could generate a better title with random keysmashing
Treating political ideologies and complex geopolitical conflicts as fandom wars.
BDS lists Burger King as a boycott target. Palestinians are the ones asking for characters drawn like that.
Exactly! BDS movement isn’t a twitter trend, it’s an actual organization that has *had success before.* https://bdsmovement.net/Act-Now-Against-These-Companies-Profiting-From-Genocide And, yeah, if it cheers someone up— people who most certainly need comfort right now— then drawing fictional characters supporting Palestine is a worthwhile use of time. The title is overly pessimistic at best.
fucking thank you
Listen. As long as there are Palestinian Tenkaichi fans and they will be comforted by my art I am goddamn gonna draw it. Also there is a notable Palestinian fan of Gojo on twt who was injured and could not draw, but mustered up the strength to draw Gojo again. Characters and stories matter more than we think.
Politics as a spectator sport is killing democracy and social media is handing over the gun. A big part of why so many people's takes are so completely one sided and lacking in real, deep nuance is because so many of us, not even just the younger generations, have adopted a mindset that it's about "our team" winning, which takes precedence over all else. A Palestinian kid chokes a little on some water given to them by an IDF soldier? Proof that the Israeli people have a mindless, insect-like drive to kill children and are all monsters. Hamas flips out one day and just starts gunning their own people down? Proof that the Israeli people have a mindless insect-like drive to kill children and are all monsters. Domestic politician in your country does something reprehensible? You get the point by now... And I'm not specifically singling out Palestine supporters as being unique in this, or making any points specifically about the Gaza war: it's literally every major political fault line in basically every country these days, to the extent that actual politicians and media pundits have started taking part in the kind of virtue signalling nonsense that used to be the preserve of permanently online, opinionated weirdos on social media. It's an unfortunate reality of democratic systems that they're not only inherently fragile and unstable in many ways, but that they're *specifically* weak to this kind of nonsense. I feel a bit like I'm going crazy watching our democratic systems being eroded because we need to get one up on the opposition.
What annoys me most is those kinds of people often give a vibe I don’t know how to articulate in English,like “only black and white,100 or 0,anything slightly different is against me there for immoral “ as they care more about how loud they can scream into other’s ears and look down on them. The worst thing is,they make themselves to be some kind of savior of human yet they don’t see the other side as people.
we live in a wrold
In which OP actively spits on BDS, a movement created by Palestinians which has had actual successes in the past, because the idea of boycotting is apparently too radical for the modern left. I swear, nearly everyone in this sub would call themself a leftist but then the moment any actual leftist political action occurs half the sub declares the idea of protest itself to be too far
If they only boycott things that BDS told them to there would not have been a problem. The issue is that people boycott stuff that were never called for by credible orgs and just decided by a few unsourced tweets. Things like Starbucks boycott (which does not even have a branch in Israel) actively detract from effectiveness of the action. Even BDS themselves point out that boycott are at their most effective when they are organized and focused on a few targets and it is easier for people to engage if there is only a small list rather than a gigantic one where if you even touch a single thing on there you will get harassed for "supporting genocide"
The title mentions Burger King, which is listed as an “organic boycott target” by BDS and is supported as a target by them. Maybe you’re making this fair argument, but the OP was not
This whole sub seems to be full of people complaining how others have actual sincere goals and aren’t just sitting on the sidelines making fun of it like them.
I cannot believe I'm seeing this on a primarily non-jewish subreddit. You have no idea how happy this makes me. I have received so much shit from leftist goyim my trust in these circles I used to feel somewhat safe in has decreased exponentially. Like, I have received death threats for talking about antisemitism, existing as a Jew, begging people not to fandomize the conflict, spread vile antisemitic rhetoric or support Hamas. I'm sorry if that is a bit much but it's just so astounding to see. In a good way.
It's fucked up seeing people draw art of characters like Sonic saying horrible shit like "From the river to the sea!", like, A. You're forcing a fictional character to have an extreme opinion on a real world war, which is cringe as hell when you're super misinformed like most interwebs denizens are. And B. I'm an Israeli, you just drew my childhood hero calling for my death. If you can't tell, this is fucked up. It's like you also can't be even a \*little\* patriotic if it's about the "wrong" side. I remember there was a little Israeli Spider Man drawing being clowned on, killed and brutalized by like a hundred fictional characters, simply because it's in support of Israel. Or the fact that simply supporting Israeli businesses is somehow supporting genocide, like if you create a website on Wix it's suddenly directly responsible for a missile hitting a little girl you don't actually care about somewhere. It's so obviously uninformed and superficial and I just hate being on the internet these days.
If people could stop behaving like the solution to the Gaza war is to exile 7 million Jews, most of whom were born there, and exile them to countries that they've never been to, many of which are actively hostile to Jews, that would be fucking great.
The post before this one for me was a dude who put himself in a dryer
I think opposing genocide is good, tbh
Try dipping your toes in the echo chambers of the Zionist side. These mfs really doing their best Nazi impression, trying to excuse shooting held down 15 year olds in the neck and blowing up an escaping civilian car along with the ambulance sent to rescue a dying 6 year old.
where's the problem with "hatsune miku supports palestine"? that just sounds based to me
The problem, IMO, is that it's meaningless. Saying that Hatsune Miku supports Palestine does not feed starving children or bring an end to the war. All it does is make you feel better. Admittedly, it also does no harm, but that's insufficient.
Also while this is such a fringe case admittedly because the crossover between fandom blorbos and actual discussion of actual real life colonialism is very slim, but you do sometimes get people applying it to characters which just, kinda out yourself as have absolutely *no* media literacy Like I'm not talking like "oh this character is an analogy for this thing so you can't make them say that" here I saw someone do it to a pair of characters who are a French colonist in 1930's Algeria and and someone who actively calls for crusades in the middle east against Muslims and it broke my brain for a good few minutes
Palestinians like fanart!! https://twitter.com/deedeedollas/status/1760707431485563145?t=nO2EbQEDozrZzx4sT_TN3w&s=19
to be fair, it's a bit of a lofty expectation to think that American Twitter teenagers have the capacity to meaningfully affect a genocide. sometimes showing support is all you can do
I understand and sympathize. I feel guilty sometimes about how little I can meaningfully do about the genocide. However, let us be honest with ourselves about that guilt instead of claiming that our posting is actually activism.