Visually it was more appealing than the rest. With Sirius, Remus getting introduced, time travel, hermoine punching Draco, Snape jumping to save golden trio & Harry casting patronus. This was the peak of the series in terms of movies
IMO it was peak for character development and vibes but as far as visual design goes I think Goblet of Fire is the best, with the quidditch world cup, dragon trial, underwater trial, etc.
Also had the best balance between making the stakes feel real and an appropriate level of world building
The later books really push it with unnecessarily raising the stakes and thereby making the world building feel like it doesn't exist outside the main characters and Hogwarts, then the movies make the problem worse by cutting the wrong details
You're really telling me there isn't a single good wizard other than Dumbledore who poses a threat to Voldemort? I'd think the title of strongest/wisest/smartest wizard would have more important things to do that teach teenagers even without Voldemort. Also, there are 3 billion people in China and India, you can't tell me there's no helpful wizards there
Harry and Hogwarts was a perfectly good scope
Yeah I like to think that even though the books make him out to be a big deal, Voldemort is kinda like a local serial killer. Yeah he's not a great person to be locked in a room with, but the wizards in India, China, and America were like "Who tf is Voldemort? Why do we care about this guy?"
Did they? I haven’t read the books in a while, and I don’t think I’ll read them ever again, but I distinctly remember characters wearing muggle clothes numerous times. Hell, thanks to how translations get marketed, this is how I learned that in Spain, denim jeans are called “pantalones vaqueros” (“cowboy pants”).
Harry and Hermione were raised by Muggles so they wear jeans but in Book 4 we're shown that most wizards (incl. the Weasleys? can't remember) don't really understand muggle fashion to the point where the concept of "pants" is foreign to at least some of them. There is in fact a minorly transphobic joke about it.
I don't recall the minorly transphobic joke, could you refresh my memory? Context is that I am trans, and used to be into HP when I was a young boy. Now that I'm a grown woman, I've been looking back at various problematic aspects.
Like I said, minor, especially for the time, but at the World Cup when they're all supposed to be disguised as muggles there's a confused male wizard in a dress and Hermione thinks it's hilarious.
I actually hate the Prisoner of Azkaban movie. That book was really underrated and the movie botched a whole lot of it and didn’t do it the justice needed.
It’s one of the “short” books but when people want to point to one of those, they generally choose Chamber of Secrets or Philosopher’s stone. Heading into the doorstop that is Goblet of Fire, people seem to forget it. It also doesn’t help that it’s the only book where Voldemort doesn’t make an appearance.
Prizoner of Azkaban has a higher Goodreads rating (4.58 stars) than both Sorcerers Stone (4.47) and Chamber of Secrets (4.43). Tied with Half Blood Prince (4.58), the only book in the series with a higher rating is Deathly Hollows (4.62). I don't believe it's underrated at all...
[source](https://www.goodreads.com/series/45175-harry-potter)
Yeah, that bit’s fun. But It felt rushed towards the end. Plus, even though they could never get it in the movie, the Quidditch Cup subplot was extremely enjoyable so it kinda rankles to see it cut even if there’s a perfectly legitimate reason for doing so.
It's been years since I revisited prisoner of Azkaban but I remember it being my favorite of the first 3. Goblet of fire is my favorite overall I think. The movies mostly miss the mark for me but they are fun on a rainy night
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I once ended an English paper with “all the worlds a stage.” My teacher loved it. I was surprised they were such a big Rush fan. Turns out Rush was making a reference themselves.
Me: Ha ha, what a funny mix up. Hey brain, what IS the opposite of a dominant gene?
My brain:
Me:
My brain:
Me:
My brain: …. dormant?
FUCK. It’s recessive. For a second I felt like I had lost my actual mind lmao 🥲
Actually seen this happen in a university class.
The topic was translation of media that referenced other media. Teacher asked what the word "rosebud" was a reference to.
One girl very enthusiastically called out "The Sims".
The answer he was looking for was Citizen Kane.
The funny thing is I know about rosebud in The Sims, it's a cheat code you can enter to get a load of money. And like her, I knew about rosebud in The Sims waaaay before I knew about rosebud in Citizen Kane.
I mean, this does seem like more of a generational issue more than anything. University classes are only getting younger, and so The Sims is ever more topical and even known by them than Citizen Kane.
It's an interesting phenomenon, generational misunderstanding of what were meant to be references due to not knowing what was referenced. I definitely noticed in cartoons I saw growing up that there was a lot of stuff that I accepted as cartoon logic but were actually deliberate parodies of other media or tropes.
That's kinda how nimrod became an insult - Bugs Bunny used it in a Looney Toon, sarcastically comparing Elmer to the biblical hunter Nimrod. Older audiences who knew the Bible closely would get it, kids and less devout people wouldn't, and that reference comes off as calling him an idiot. Those people won out and nimrod became a new word.
You can talk about the character all you want, just not the Scottish play (which is the usual euphemism).
I mean nobody takes it that seriously. There's an episode of Blackadder III that plays with the trope, it's quite funny in a pantomime way (call and response).
He makes a point not to say it. He only mentions the character and not the play due to this superstition:
My dearest, Angelica
“Tomorrow and tomorrow and tomorrow
Creeps in this petty pace from day to day”
I trust you’ll understand the reference to
Another Scottish tragedy without my having to name the play
They think me Macbeth, and ambition is my folly
Oh I always thought he says 'scottish tragedy' first, only to be provocative by saying it immediately after. Didn't know that it's only about the play, not the person
Well I learned something today.
In the theater troops I've been involved with it was just for fun. But we WOULD totally razz on someone for saying it (jokingly).
Actually there’s a reason for this IIRC, it was because after theaters would perform this, they’d tend to shut down or go out of business. In reality it was because if a theater or group was financially on death’s door, they’d put on a production that costs very little, and so Macbeth was often the last play theater companies did before closing
I was in a high school one act play called The Firebugs. I played one of a pair of characters that bring up M*cbeth in a conversation. I broke my leg after school waiting for the bus.
Admittedly I broke my leg in martial arts shenanigans, but that shouldn't diminish the all.rncompasing nature of the curse.
For a modern example, Chris Rock said “Macbeth” in the Dolby Theater, and then got slapped by Will Smith a minute later.
This example really doesn’t prove anything one way or the other, but it is a hilarious coincidence.
Macbeth allegedly had real black magic spells in its script. Thus actors in ye olden times would be coy about refering to the play, and use Euphemisms like the Scottish play. This tradition is kept up in the modern day, semi-seriously, because it's fun, an in group identifier and because actors remain superstitious.
Of course, you'll have people who swear up and down about the consequences of saying Macbeth, but that's mostly people attributing the inevitable random bad luck to a specific source and not actual providence.
Scottish play is the best euphemism imo. It's definitely better than having your castmates whisper backstage about someone saying "the M-word". As you might imagine, that often gets misheard.
It’s not mostly misattribution, it’s entirely misattribution. Saying Macbeth does nothing magical nor curses anyone in any context.
The utility is entirely in-group bonding and superstition, as you said
Same reason you say "break a leg" instead of "good luck" to an actor, but you should only say "good luck" and not "break a leg" to a dancer. Bad juju. "Macbeth" is only bad luck while inside a theatre though.
Yeah, it's all superstition. And none of us really take it too seriously.
.... but.
I played Macduff a couple of years back, and in the climactic sword fight (choreographed full contact brawl with (stage) claymores), I stepped back to block an overhead strike, and part of my calf muscle went "POP" and tore in half, and I had to do the rest of the run with a cane and fight with a severe limp.
Not an actually broken leg, but close enough. We laugh about it now.... slighltly nervously.
The "good luck/break a leg superstition" is just about taken seriously enough that I slightly flinch when someone says good luck to me or I say it someone else, regardless of context, and that you might get some annoyed glares if you say in our theatre
Yup. Apparently, it refers to a full house in the time when aristocrats would arrive to the theatre in horse-drawn carriages and fill the streets outside with, well, merde. Merde in the streets = butts in the seats.
No idea if it’s true or not but I heard somewhere that “break a leg” is something you tell someone specifically before an audition because it means “I hope you end up in the cast” using a double-meaning of the word “cast.”
My source for this information is osmosis so it’s probably not true tbh, but I like it enough to spread it anyway
Supposedly brings bad luck when spoken in a theatre. I heard the first time the show was put on the theatre burned down or something like that, have no clue what everyone else is talking about with the Black Magic.
Most think the real reason it exists is because a lot of failing theaters would try to put on the Scottish Play as a Hail-Mary (banking on recognizability) and either would fail or a disaster would occur due to the carelessness brought about by the desperation to stay afloat.
It could also be 400 years worth of confirmation bias. No one talks about the countless times it went off without a hitch, but that time their buddy broke an arm falling off the stage, or that actress got hit by a car on opening night ^(both examples I've actualle heard) are interesting enough to bring up in a conversation.
Could it also be due to the presence of scenes that could lead to accidents, like the murder and battle scenes, the special effects for the witches and the ghosts etc?
It's a popular tune for closing time at bars, to let you know it's time to drink up and go home for the night.
Different places have different closing songs.
Only this time it's the theatre that closes permanently, instead of a bar closing just for the night.
The play is short, easy to set up, and widely recognized, making it a cash cow. For these reasons, it's usually a play troupes do when they're short on cash, and about to fail.
I had no idea about the "M*cbeth" curse thing, and I was talking about it with my bestie between scenes during my Junior year production, the final rehearsal.
We had this big lemonade stand prop that was in most of the scenes of the play. It was heavy as hell.
Well this guy in my class walks up to me and says "Don't say that word, what are you doing?", and I'm confused as fuck so I'm like "What? Macbeth? Why?" and he gets pissed and tells me to stop saying it 😭 I keep bugging him about it, and eventually he storms off.
A minute or two later, it's time for the last scene. Everyone is getting to their places waiting for the cue to begin - and then ***BANG!!!***
Everyone is fucking startled and we turn around
The fucking lemonade stand had fell over - and it was *broken*. The sign had split in two, and it wouldn't balance right when we picked it up.
So we had to spend the last rehearsal night and the morning of our first production fixing this lemonade stand
I got a LOT of shit for that 😭
But it wasn't really your fault in the first place. If the curse was actually real then you would have died anyway.
Maybe a hot take but it's beyond idiotic to blame someone for an accident occuring due to superstitious nonsense.
"Jimmy, I heard this thing about *Macbeth* where you're not supposed to say 'Macbeth,' because if you do, bad things happen 'cuz you said 'Macbeth.' And we've been saying 'Macbeth' a lot. ...Oh, and congratulations on getting the part of Macbeth. ...I SAID 'MACBETH'!"
one of the main benefits to getting an education in classic lit is understanding all the classic lit memes ("literary references") so you don't look cringe ("uncultured")
Uncultured fucks unable to take a joke being really loud rn. Like Shakespeare is far far more popular and widely known than a series that came out a mere 20 years ago. Billions of people alive and not have read shakespeare over hundreds of years. Billions haven't read Harry potter. People who haven't read shakespeare, but know how to speak English are going around quoting shakespeare in their daily lives on the regular.
I know we all like to harp on Potterheads from time to time, but I don't see what makes the original post so cringy. I mean, yeah, the student didn't know the original source of the quote, but they recognized it from another famous piece of media where it was referenced. Despite all the controversy surrounding its creator, Harry Potter is regardless an incredibly influential work of fiction.
People are acting like them making one mistake because the first thing that came to mind was a scene from a famous movie franchise they like rather than a play they read in high school means they don’t read anything except Harry Potter and think exposing themselves to other media is beneath them despite the fact that they’re literally an English major (unironic conversation I had with someone on the post)
... might just be me, but context wise (with the exception of something like the class I had specifically on children's books) why would you assume the answer to what a college English literature class professor is putting on the board is from a children's book?
Why couldn't it come from a children's book? Children's books are literature too, and this one specifically is well known. Books don't lose value because of a reader age cutoff
seriously, I can understand hating on JK, I can understand criticizing the books, but some people on Tumblr act like its a heinous crime to *like* Harry Potter, the classic young adult novel and movie series beloved around the world.
I have distinct memories of reading tumblr essays on why Harry Potter is an anti-fascist handbook, and I have to still be following someone who reblogged it, I don't unfollow people that often. That was always a silly take but like, Harry Potter also isn't literal Hate Speech, JKR just used pre-existing fantasy tropes and didn't think through the implications.
Also it was released in 1997? That's 27 years ago. A lot has changed in 27 years in terms of social responsibility with writing. Like... American Pie came out 2 years later. At this point the Harry Potter series should be considered "a product of its time."
It's barely even a product of its time in that regard. Most of the big issues people have with it are issues that exist in *most* fantasy settings.
JKR is shit a lot of times, but few of those views are actually highlighted in the series.
It's long enough ago that, thanks to the Section 28 legislation put in place by Margeret Thatcher, it is *entirely* plausible that Dumbledore having purple boots was as 'gay coded' as she was able to get. Teachers could get into legal trouble for 'promoting gay role models' and Dumbledore would have been banned from British school if he'd been gay in any definitive way.
By the time she could say openly, 'Dumbledore is gay', that legislation had been rescinded. But in that culture at the time, purple was a definite nod to 'lavender' which was a gay colour signal to other gay men.
I completly loathe the way her politics have gone, but that is one I'd give her a pass on.
I mean, it’s not *so* silly considering it’s literally about the fight to dethrone a wizarding fascist, who fits every conceivable definition of the term. Which honestly makes JKR’s horrible actions in the last few years sting all the more.
Even some of the criticisms are a general fantasy issue from the time. Fantasy always has had that aspect of holding up the status quo and trying to get things back to normal with little societal change. The ones that didn't have that tended to stand out. Kids books in general at the time were often ended with "and then everything went back to normal and life was good"
Fantasy has as a whole genre has only recently stated to move away from that as a whole as those outliers became more popular, monarchist attitudes are looked down on and the general trend for fiction to be about upheaval of the status quo that can never go back.
> Despite all the controversy surrounding its creator, Harry Potter is regardless an incredibly influential work of fiction.
Harry Potter had an entire generation (or two, maybe three) of kids turned into readers.
It had people lining up outside bookstores and the entire western world waited on baited breath for the 5th, 6th and 7th book drops and reveals. Spoiling a fucking *book* was something taken seriously. Can you imagine that these days? Can you think of a book influential enough that spoiling it would be a thing to do? The closest I can think of would be if GRR Martin ever finishes another one, and that's as much because of the TV Show as the books themselves.
I've never seen anything like it before or since. Say what you will about JK, the world was far better for Harry the Potter, and we got a lot more readers and a lot more literate people from it. Plus more people interested in fantasy and adventure which is nice too.
The university professor asked where the sentence was from. You can assume they were asking where it was originally from. You would also assume an English major would have read Macbeth. Also, the sentence wasn't even in the Harry Potter books, only in the movie.
So in a discussion about a famous quote from one of the most famous English writer, from one of his most famous piece of work, OP attributed the quote to a movie.
It's not "I can never forgive myself for saying this" kind of bad, but it's worse than saying "you too!" when your server tells you to enjoy your food, which might be too much for the average Tumblr user to handle considering the amount of meme about not being equipped to handle socially awkward situation they produce.
Right? These things are so common and everyone does them. I once forgot a word and so I said “you know, the paper… on a wall”
“You mean wallpaper?”
“Oh. Yeah.”
I think the first reply might’ve meant from embarrassment and the second one is kinda just typical tumblr poking fun at menial shit. I don’t think it’s a slight on potterheads at all
Once a friend and I worked as stagehands for a production we really disliked. We'd been there since the beginning of production, built and worked on the sets and everything, but the whole administration side was a shitshow. Director was good with getting funds put terrible at actually directing. We would constantly mutter the bards play at each other as a greeting everytime we ran into each other backstage, but nothing bad really happened, which was a shame tbh
Straight up I don't believe in superstition but I was in like 12 plays in highschool and Macbeth was the only one that had problems. Our Macduff got sick the day before opening night and one of the witches broke her leg on opening night. Shit was *wild*
This is really not that bad, it’s not because you’re an english major that you suddenly know absolutely everything
And also, this isn’t literacy but just general knowledge
No. But an English major should know about the Scottish play.
Not know entering but should know most foundational things. But harry potter might be bigger than shakespear, time will tell.
Apparently using real spell words is where the curse originated. Witches were angry at Shakespeare for taking from their real spells.
So I'd be extra careful when adding those words as well as saying the name.
Are we really still being afraid of superstitions like that in this day and age ?…
It’s called Macbeth and you could litteraly recite all those spells at midnight in front of a pentagram with candles and while it would admittedly be fun to do it wouldn’t do anything.
The problem is even as a Shakespeare fan and English major, I have not in fact read Macbeth and do in fact associate the phrase “double double, toil and trouble” with Harry Potter. I am part of the problem. 😔
I associate it with Wyrd Sisters by Terry Pratchett. And then Shakespeare, because I have read and seen the play, but I have read the book a whole lot more often.
Hi. You just mentioned *Wyrd Sisters* by Terry Pratchett.
I've found an audiobook of that novel on YouTube. You can listen to it here:
[YouTube | Terry pratchett’s. WYRD SISTERS. (Part one) (Audiobook)](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V17GSCTPYcM)
*I'm a bot that searches YouTube for science fiction and fantasy audiobooks.*
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I'll admit I didn't remember it was from Macbeth but it is referenced in most Halloween themed episodes or media featuring witches. I always assumed it was just a generic witchy thing you say while mixing at a cauldron. Hell Mary Kate and Ashley had a movie called "Double Double Toil and Trouble" when they were little.
I know Harry Potter is influential but have most Harry Potter fans never noticed the phrase in other media?
>I know Harry Potter is influential but have most Harry Potter fans never noticed the phrase in other media?
Harry Potter fans get very defensive over it, but they're the reason r/readanotherbook exists.
I can sympathize with this- as a kid I watched a lot of cartoons that would make references to things I didn't even realize were references until decades later. For example, one plotline in *Rocky and Bullwinkle* involved them finding a ruby-encrusted model ship called "The Ruby Yacht of Omar Khayyám", which I would later learn was a pun on the title of a famous book of poetry called *The Rubáiyát of Omar Khayyám*.
The frog choir singing that specific song wasn't even in the books???
What is the frog choir???
[Behold the frog choir](https://youtu.be/6I1P1Vml8WM?si=bqdtEa7CRbhJbp-k).
Harry Potter 3 has its issues, but I’ll give it props for actually leaning hard into the “witchiness” of the setting.
It's still my favourite one. Cuarón just had that distinct directorial flavour that set it apart from the rest.
Visually it was more appealing than the rest. With Sirius, Remus getting introduced, time travel, hermoine punching Draco, Snape jumping to save golden trio & Harry casting patronus. This was the peak of the series in terms of movies
IMO it was peak for character development and vibes but as far as visual design goes I think Goblet of Fire is the best, with the quidditch world cup, dragon trial, underwater trial, etc.
Gof had potential. But the yule ball scene blew my mind when I watched it as a kid
Also had the best balance between making the stakes feel real and an appropriate level of world building The later books really push it with unnecessarily raising the stakes and thereby making the world building feel like it doesn't exist outside the main characters and Hogwarts, then the movies make the problem worse by cutting the wrong details You're really telling me there isn't a single good wizard other than Dumbledore who poses a threat to Voldemort? I'd think the title of strongest/wisest/smartest wizard would have more important things to do that teach teenagers even without Voldemort. Also, there are 3 billion people in China and India, you can't tell me there's no helpful wizards there Harry and Hogwarts was a perfectly good scope
Yeah I like to think that even though the books make him out to be a big deal, Voldemort is kinda like a local serial killer. Yeah he's not a great person to be locked in a room with, but the wizards in India, China, and America were like "Who tf is Voldemort? Why do we care about this guy?"
A bit, but at the same time they ditched the robes and had them running around in clothes the characters in the books are canonically unfamiliar with.
Did they? I haven’t read the books in a while, and I don’t think I’ll read them ever again, but I distinctly remember characters wearing muggle clothes numerous times. Hell, thanks to how translations get marketed, this is how I learned that in Spain, denim jeans are called “pantalones vaqueros” (“cowboy pants”).
Harry and Hermione were raised by Muggles so they wear jeans but in Book 4 we're shown that most wizards (incl. the Weasleys? can't remember) don't really understand muggle fashion to the point where the concept of "pants" is foreign to at least some of them. There is in fact a minorly transphobic joke about it.
I don't think it goes that hard, like Ron and them wear regular clothes outside of school. I think the robe thing is an older wizard thing
also, in the movies at least, the basic uniform has pants too
I don't recall the minorly transphobic joke, could you refresh my memory? Context is that I am trans, and used to be into HP when I was a young boy. Now that I'm a grown woman, I've been looking back at various problematic aspects.
Like I said, minor, especially for the time, but at the World Cup when they're all supposed to be disguised as muggles there's a confused male wizard in a dress and Hermione thinks it's hilarious.
Gotcha, thanks. Yeah that tracks.
I heard that the reason they ditched the robes is cause Cuarón wanted them to “act like they would of their parents weren’t around”
It helps that it was directed by Alfonso Cuaron
Frog choir beheld.
Omg that's so cool~ Thank you! :)
Damn, loved that scene. It really sets the tone.
[Behold the live action frog choir while we're at it](https://youtu.be/gnNKzcaiILU?si=4KARmhuKH6Dz5MCL). (It's significantly worse, but still neat)
[This one?](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6PMiP90ntZ8) Wait, wrong one.
There were books???
With extra characters!
Like Ron
Sounds made up
Came here to say this, "reading harry Potter actively makes you less literate" said the person who cites their evidence from the movie...
I actually hate the Prisoner of Azkaban movie. That book was really underrated and the movie botched a whole lot of it and didn’t do it the justice needed.
Is it really underrated? Didn't read the books until a few years ago, and it's easily my favorite in the whole series.
It’s appropriately rated.
You could even say it's whelming.
It’s one of the “short” books but when people want to point to one of those, they generally choose Chamber of Secrets or Philosopher’s stone. Heading into the doorstop that is Goblet of Fire, people seem to forget it. It also doesn’t help that it’s the only book where Voldemort doesn’t make an appearance.
Prizoner of Azkaban has a higher Goodreads rating (4.58 stars) than both Sorcerers Stone (4.47) and Chamber of Secrets (4.43). Tied with Half Blood Prince (4.58), the only book in the series with a higher rating is Deathly Hollows (4.62). I don't believe it's underrated at all... [source](https://www.goodreads.com/series/45175-harry-potter)
You don't like how it ends on a freeze frame of Harry going Woohoooo!
Yeah, that bit’s fun. But It felt rushed towards the end. Plus, even though they could never get it in the movie, the Quidditch Cup subplot was extremely enjoyable so it kinda rankles to see it cut even if there’s a perfectly legitimate reason for doing so.
It's been years since I revisited prisoner of Azkaban but I remember it being my favorite of the first 3. Goblet of fire is my favorite overall I think. The movies mostly miss the mark for me but they are fun on a rainy night
“All the world’s a stage, catgirlforeskin.” There’s a new one
I love when a witty response makes great use of metaphor.
Yeah I love foone
I love them. My introduction to them was them figuring out how to play Doom on a pregnancy test.
I accidentally sang this line to the tune of Uncle Fucka. Hopefully now I won't be the only one with it stuck in my head for the next hour.
All the world’s a stage, Catgirlforeskin You’re a yiff-addicted furry, Catgirlforeskin
r/rimjob_steve for more.. interesting.. usernames
thats like a very average username over on tumblr
r/brandnewsentence
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I once ended an English paper with “all the worlds a stage.” My teacher loved it. I was surprised they were such a big Rush fan. Turns out Rush was making a reference themselves.
Well in the end we are all merely players, performers and portrayers. Each another's audience outside the gilded cage.
Dumbledore must've said that
Another classic line from Harry Potter.
I like that you can sing that name to the tune of the spongebob theme song
what part of the song?
Basically just the parts where they sing his name
That has the same energy as the girl who said submissive was the opposite of dominant genes in a post secondary class
lol
I don't think I've ever seen it specified to genetics, just biology, but now it does make more sense
metal gear solid type of education
Yeah, but at least I know women breathe through their skin
Me: Ha ha, what a funny mix up. Hey brain, what IS the opposite of a dominant gene? My brain: Me: My brain: Me: My brain: …. dormant? FUCK. It’s recessive. For a second I felt like I had lost my actual mind lmao 🥲
Actually seen this happen in a university class. The topic was translation of media that referenced other media. Teacher asked what the word "rosebud" was a reference to. One girl very enthusiastically called out "The Sims". The answer he was looking for was Citizen Kane. The funny thing is I know about rosebud in The Sims, it's a cheat code you can enter to get a load of money. And like her, I knew about rosebud in The Sims waaaay before I knew about rosebud in Citizen Kane.
I mean, this does seem like more of a generational issue more than anything. University classes are only getting younger, and so The Sims is ever more topical and even known by them than Citizen Kane.
It's an interesting phenomenon, generational misunderstanding of what were meant to be references due to not knowing what was referenced. I definitely noticed in cartoons I saw growing up that there was a lot of stuff that I accepted as cartoon logic but were actually deliberate parodies of other media or tropes. That's kinda how nimrod became an insult - Bugs Bunny used it in a Looney Toon, sarcastically comparing Elmer to the biblical hunter Nimrod. Older audiences who knew the Bible closely would get it, kids and less devout people wouldn't, and that reference comes off as calling him an idiot. Those people won out and nimrod became a new word.
For an embarrassingly long time, I thought "and if you don't know, now you know" was a Hamilton reference.
That is embarrassing
Tbf the first time I heard someone dramatically whisper “Rosebud” was in Over the Hedge with William Shatner as an opossum, so I get it
I would've gone with Animaniacs
Why is m*cbeth a bad thing to say?
There's a running trend of people saying "Macbeth" in theaters before getting a one-way ticket to meet the man that wrote it
iirc this only applies to saying macbeth, as in the play, not Macbeth, as in the man behind the slaughter
Some people say it only applies to the play but some say it applies to both and call him The Scottish King
PURPLE GUY?!
Nine Nights at Macbeth's
Ah well fuck, I work in a theatre, never heard of this. Thank god I haven’t said it.
You can talk about the character all you want, just not the Scottish play (which is the usual euphemism). I mean nobody takes it that seriously. There's an episode of Blackadder III that plays with the trope, it's quite funny in a pantomime way (call and response).
Hamilton uses it as well. Alexander mentions Macbeth in a letter to Angelica at the turning point after which his life goes downhill
He makes a point not to say it. He only mentions the character and not the play due to this superstition: My dearest, Angelica “Tomorrow and tomorrow and tomorrow Creeps in this petty pace from day to day” I trust you’ll understand the reference to Another Scottish tragedy without my having to name the play They think me Macbeth, and ambition is my folly
Oh I always thought he says 'scottish tragedy' first, only to be provocative by saying it immediately after. Didn't know that it's only about the play, not the person
hot potato off his drawers puck will make amends! *pinches nose
Aaargh!
I have to go watch that episode again. Between the Macbeth gag and the actors endless verbal abuse of Blackadder it’s just too funny.
People definitely do take it seriously. I've personally witnessed people getting kicked out of rehearsal rooms for saying it.
Well I learned something today. In the theater troops I've been involved with it was just for fun. But we WOULD totally razz on someone for saying it (jokingly).
Huh. I always thought it was more "your next play will flop" style curse.
Actually there’s a reason for this IIRC, it was because after theaters would perform this, they’d tend to shut down or go out of business. In reality it was because if a theater or group was financially on death’s door, they’d put on a production that costs very little, and so Macbeth was often the last play theater companies did before closing
I was in a high school one act play called The Firebugs. I played one of a pair of characters that bring up M*cbeth in a conversation. I broke my leg after school waiting for the bus. Admittedly I broke my leg in martial arts shenanigans, but that shouldn't diminish the all.rncompasing nature of the curse.
For a modern example, Chris Rock said “Macbeth” in the Dolby Theater, and then got slapped by Will Smith a minute later. This example really doesn’t prove anything one way or the other, but it is a hilarious coincidence.
…. Hey uh, are you okay
In terms of being alive, to a relativity, yes.
Macbeth allegedly had real black magic spells in its script. Thus actors in ye olden times would be coy about refering to the play, and use Euphemisms like the Scottish play. This tradition is kept up in the modern day, semi-seriously, because it's fun, an in group identifier and because actors remain superstitious. Of course, you'll have people who swear up and down about the consequences of saying Macbeth, but that's mostly people attributing the inevitable random bad luck to a specific source and not actual providence.
Scottish play is the best euphemism imo. It's definitely better than having your castmates whisper backstage about someone saying "the M-word". As you might imagine, that often gets misheard.
NeckBeth.
The M-word is what Mutants get called in Marvel
The play where a king's wife convinces him to buy a Pass and then liberally use it
M-Word with a hard A
It's basically the same thing as "break a leg" rather than "good luck". A little superstition makes stuff fun.
It’s not mostly misattribution, it’s entirely misattribution. Saying Macbeth does nothing magical nor curses anyone in any context. The utility is entirely in-group bonding and superstition, as you said
Same reason you say "break a leg" instead of "good luck" to an actor, but you should only say "good luck" and not "break a leg" to a dancer. Bad juju. "Macbeth" is only bad luck while inside a theatre though.
Yeah, it's all superstition. And none of us really take it too seriously. .... but. I played Macduff a couple of years back, and in the climactic sword fight (choreographed full contact brawl with (stage) claymores), I stepped back to block an overhead strike, and part of my calf muscle went "POP" and tore in half, and I had to do the rest of the run with a cane and fight with a severe limp. Not an actually broken leg, but close enough. We laugh about it now.... slighltly nervously.
The "good luck/break a leg superstition" is just about taken seriously enough that I slightly flinch when someone says good luck to me or I say it someone else, regardless of context, and that you might get some annoyed glares if you say in our theatre
For dancers, the “good luck” replacement is “merde.”
Like the French cuss word?
Yup. Apparently, it refers to a full house in the time when aristocrats would arrive to the theatre in horse-drawn carriages and fill the streets outside with, well, merde. Merde in the streets = butts in the seats.
Oh, thank you, that actually kinda makes sense.
I didn't know about the dancer part. I always thought it was "break a leg" for any kind of performance on a stage.
No idea if it’s true or not but I heard somewhere that “break a leg” is something you tell someone specifically before an audition because it means “I hope you end up in the cast” using a double-meaning of the word “cast.” My source for this information is osmosis so it’s probably not true tbh, but I like it enough to spread it anyway
Supposedly brings bad luck when spoken in a theatre. I heard the first time the show was put on the theatre burned down or something like that, have no clue what everyone else is talking about with the Black Magic. Most think the real reason it exists is because a lot of failing theaters would try to put on the Scottish Play as a Hail-Mary (banking on recognizability) and either would fail or a disaster would occur due to the carelessness brought about by the desperation to stay afloat.
It could also be 400 years worth of confirmation bias. No one talks about the countless times it went off without a hitch, but that time their buddy broke an arm falling off the stage, or that actress got hit by a car on opening night ^(both examples I've actualle heard) are interesting enough to bring up in a conversation.
Could it also be due to the presence of scenes that could lead to accidents, like the murder and battle scenes, the special effects for the witches and the ghosts etc?
Like Sweet Caroline, but for theatres.
What about Sweet Caroline?
It's a popular tune for closing time at bars, to let you know it's time to drink up and go home for the night. Different places have different closing songs. Only this time it's the theatre that closes permanently, instead of a bar closing just for the night.
The play is short, easy to set up, and widely recognized, making it a cash cow. For these reasons, it's usually a play troupes do when they're short on cash, and about to fail.
If you say Macbeth four times, he appears.
Actors have to exorcise evil spirits every time you speak the name. Here's a video of it. https://youtu.be/h--HR7PWfp0?si=__FCLpmNCmNtGT3I
bubble bubble toilet trouble
Taco Bell and stomach rumble
Ground meat of a Jersey cow\ In the taco, spiced and browned
With the slapping of my ass, Something baja this way blasts
By the tingling of my ass Something liquid's about to pass
Hot potato, orchestra stalls, Puck will make amends!
You really have to do that every time I say Macbeth?
Thank you for being the first person, including the publishers of *The Whole Damn Dynasty*, to ever write this out in full.
*pinches nose*
Came here specifically to post this, glad to see I was beaten to it.
I had no idea about the "M*cbeth" curse thing, and I was talking about it with my bestie between scenes during my Junior year production, the final rehearsal. We had this big lemonade stand prop that was in most of the scenes of the play. It was heavy as hell. Well this guy in my class walks up to me and says "Don't say that word, what are you doing?", and I'm confused as fuck so I'm like "What? Macbeth? Why?" and he gets pissed and tells me to stop saying it 😭 I keep bugging him about it, and eventually he storms off. A minute or two later, it's time for the last scene. Everyone is getting to their places waiting for the cue to begin - and then ***BANG!!!*** Everyone is fucking startled and we turn around The fucking lemonade stand had fell over - and it was *broken*. The sign had split in two, and it wouldn't balance right when we picked it up. So we had to spend the last rehearsal night and the morning of our first production fixing this lemonade stand I got a LOT of shit for that 😭
But it wasn't really your fault in the first place. If the curse was actually real then you would have died anyway. Maybe a hot take but it's beyond idiotic to blame someone for an accident occuring due to superstitious nonsense.
Who's to say I'm not like a freaky zombie or perhaps evil gheist or revenant or something now? 🧟♀️
Double Double Toil and Trouble makes me think of the Jimmy Neutron episode where they put on a Sci-Fi parody of the Scottish Play... does that work?
The Scottish Play? Do you mean Macb--
*The stage collapses under u/kRkthOr, sending them to an untimely death.*
Oh so now the name is as bad as Candlejack where you can't even finish a sent-
"Jimmy, I heard this thing about *Macbeth* where you're not supposed to say 'Macbeth,' because if you do, bad things happen 'cuz you said 'Macbeth.' And we've been saying 'Macbeth' a lot. ...Oh, and congratulations on getting the part of Macbeth. ...I SAID 'MACBETH'!"
This one got me good. Well done
I was thinking Hocus Pocus...
This is my canary in the coal mine that society is done for, took way too long for anyone else to mention Hocus Pocus.
How is this literacy?
Not just literacy, but literature as well.
[удалено]
one of the main benefits to getting an education in classic lit is understanding all the classic lit memes ("literary references") so you don't look cringe ("uncultured")
Media??? Not typically read???
Uncultured fucks unable to take a joke being really loud rn. Like Shakespeare is far far more popular and widely known than a series that came out a mere 20 years ago. Billions of people alive and not have read shakespeare over hundreds of years. Billions haven't read Harry potter. People who haven't read shakespeare, but know how to speak English are going around quoting shakespeare in their daily lives on the regular.
Pretty sure this is a Blackadder skit
Hot potato, orchestra stall! Puck will make amends!
I know we all like to harp on Potterheads from time to time, but I don't see what makes the original post so cringy. I mean, yeah, the student didn't know the original source of the quote, but they recognized it from another famous piece of media where it was referenced. Despite all the controversy surrounding its creator, Harry Potter is regardless an incredibly influential work of fiction.
My father once mentioned Morpheus and I asked, "From *The Matrix?"* I'm still reeling from that one.
From the Sandman comics?! /jk
I did it the other way once. My friends were talking about the Matrix, and silly me asked "Morpheus, the Roman god of dreams?"
People are acting like them making one mistake because the first thing that came to mind was a scene from a famous movie franchise they like rather than a play they read in high school means they don’t read anything except Harry Potter and think exposing themselves to other media is beneath them despite the fact that they’re literally an English major (unironic conversation I had with someone on the post)
... might just be me, but context wise (with the exception of something like the class I had specifically on children's books) why would you assume the answer to what a college English literature class professor is putting on the board is from a children's book?
Why couldn't it come from a children's book? Children's books are literature too, and this one specifically is well known. Books don't lose value because of a reader age cutoff
The thing is the frog choir isn't even in the books, it's only in the films
Really!? Hah, that's great.
seriously, I can understand hating on JK, I can understand criticizing the books, but some people on Tumblr act like its a heinous crime to *like* Harry Potter, the classic young adult novel and movie series beloved around the world.
I have distinct memories of reading tumblr essays on why Harry Potter is an anti-fascist handbook, and I have to still be following someone who reblogged it, I don't unfollow people that often. That was always a silly take but like, Harry Potter also isn't literal Hate Speech, JKR just used pre-existing fantasy tropes and didn't think through the implications.
Also it was released in 1997? That's 27 years ago. A lot has changed in 27 years in terms of social responsibility with writing. Like... American Pie came out 2 years later. At this point the Harry Potter series should be considered "a product of its time."
It's barely even a product of its time in that regard. Most of the big issues people have with it are issues that exist in *most* fantasy settings. JKR is shit a lot of times, but few of those views are actually highlighted in the series.
It's long enough ago that, thanks to the Section 28 legislation put in place by Margeret Thatcher, it is *entirely* plausible that Dumbledore having purple boots was as 'gay coded' as she was able to get. Teachers could get into legal trouble for 'promoting gay role models' and Dumbledore would have been banned from British school if he'd been gay in any definitive way. By the time she could say openly, 'Dumbledore is gay', that legislation had been rescinded. But in that culture at the time, purple was a definite nod to 'lavender' which was a gay colour signal to other gay men. I completly loathe the way her politics have gone, but that is one I'd give her a pass on.
I mean, it’s not *so* silly considering it’s literally about the fight to dethrone a wizarding fascist, who fits every conceivable definition of the term. Which honestly makes JKR’s horrible actions in the last few years sting all the more.
Even some of the criticisms are a general fantasy issue from the time. Fantasy always has had that aspect of holding up the status quo and trying to get things back to normal with little societal change. The ones that didn't have that tended to stand out. Kids books in general at the time were often ended with "and then everything went back to normal and life was good" Fantasy has as a whole genre has only recently stated to move away from that as a whole as those outliers became more popular, monarchist attitudes are looked down on and the general trend for fiction to be about upheaval of the status quo that can never go back.
> Despite all the controversy surrounding its creator, Harry Potter is regardless an incredibly influential work of fiction. Harry Potter had an entire generation (or two, maybe three) of kids turned into readers. It had people lining up outside bookstores and the entire western world waited on baited breath for the 5th, 6th and 7th book drops and reveals. Spoiling a fucking *book* was something taken seriously. Can you imagine that these days? Can you think of a book influential enough that spoiling it would be a thing to do? The closest I can think of would be if GRR Martin ever finishes another one, and that's as much because of the TV Show as the books themselves. I've never seen anything like it before or since. Say what you will about JK, the world was far better for Harry the Potter, and we got a lot more readers and a lot more literate people from it. Plus more people interested in fantasy and adventure which is nice too.
The university professor asked where the sentence was from. You can assume they were asking where it was originally from. You would also assume an English major would have read Macbeth. Also, the sentence wasn't even in the Harry Potter books, only in the movie. So in a discussion about a famous quote from one of the most famous English writer, from one of his most famous piece of work, OP attributed the quote to a movie. It's not "I can never forgive myself for saying this" kind of bad, but it's worse than saying "you too!" when your server tells you to enjoy your food, which might be too much for the average Tumblr user to handle considering the amount of meme about not being equipped to handle socially awkward situation they produce.
Honestly sounds like she was making fun of herself for having a brain fart in her class. It happens.
Right? These things are so common and everyone does them. I once forgot a word and so I said “you know, the paper… on a wall” “You mean wallpaper?” “Oh. Yeah.”
I think the first reply might’ve meant from embarrassment and the second one is kinda just typical tumblr poking fun at menial shit. I don’t think it’s a slight on potterheads at all
Apart from the fact the line is actually **H**ubble bubble, toil and trouble, me neither!
The worst part is the line isn’t even in the book, only the movie
Frog choir was literally only in the movie. It had nothing to do with the book. That should have been clue #1 that it’s a reference.
It's not Bubble Bubble? Huh damn
Double double toil and trouble/ Fire burn and cauldron bubble There is a bubble in there, just in the next line :)
cringe ass Tumblr kids, you can say it outside of a theatre jfc
This has nothing to do with literacy, this is just literary trivia.
Once a friend and I worked as stagehands for a production we really disliked. We'd been there since the beginning of production, built and worked on the sets and everything, but the whole administration side was a shitshow. Director was good with getting funds put terrible at actually directing. We would constantly mutter the bards play at each other as a greeting everytime we ran into each other backstage, but nothing bad really happened, which was a shame tbh
Straight up I don't believe in superstition but I was in like 12 plays in highschool and Macbeth was the only one that had problems. Our Macduff got sick the day before opening night and one of the witches broke her leg on opening night. Shit was *wild*
This is really not that bad, it’s not because you’re an english major that you suddenly know absolutely everything And also, this isn’t literacy but just general knowledge
No. But an English major should know about the Scottish play. Not know entering but should know most foundational things. But harry potter might be bigger than shakespear, time will tell.
I mean, even English majors do not need to know the thing by heart, especially the passages including frogs.
Apparently using real spell words is where the curse originated. Witches were angry at Shakespeare for taking from their real spells. So I'd be extra careful when adding those words as well as saying the name.
Are we really still being afraid of superstitions like that in this day and age ?… It’s called Macbeth and you could litteraly recite all those spells at midnight in front of a pentagram with candles and while it would admittedly be fun to do it wouldn’t do anything.
A piano will fall on your head shortly
Good I have awaited my cartoon character era. I shall have a comically big red lump on the head and see actual stars rotating around me.
The problem is even as a Shakespeare fan and English major, I have not in fact read Macbeth and do in fact associate the phrase “double double, toil and trouble” with Harry Potter. I am part of the problem. 😔
I associate it with Wyrd Sisters by Terry Pratchett. And then Shakespeare, because I have read and seen the play, but I have read the book a whole lot more often.
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*When shall we three meet again?* Well, I can do next Tuesday...
I'll admit I didn't remember it was from Macbeth but it is referenced in most Halloween themed episodes or media featuring witches. I always assumed it was just a generic witchy thing you say while mixing at a cauldron. Hell Mary Kate and Ashley had a movie called "Double Double Toil and Trouble" when they were little. I know Harry Potter is influential but have most Harry Potter fans never noticed the phrase in other media?
>I know Harry Potter is influential but have most Harry Potter fans never noticed the phrase in other media? Harry Potter fans get very defensive over it, but they're the reason r/readanotherbook exists.
As someone with an English degree this was amazing 😆
5 minutes before seeing this post i was thinking "I wonder where double, double toil and trouble comes from". Neat.
I can sympathize with this- as a kid I watched a lot of cartoons that would make references to things I didn't even realize were references until decades later. For example, one plotline in *Rocky and Bullwinkle* involved them finding a ruby-encrusted model ship called "The Ruby Yacht of Omar Khayyám", which I would later learn was a pun on the title of a famous book of poetry called *The Rubáiyát of Omar Khayyám*.
MACBETH! (Somewhere in the distance, [Ian McKellan gets struck by lightning](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u-tD2t77RSQ).)
That last post was the cherry on top of the whole exchange.
I would’ve thought it was from broad city
I thought it was the team rocket thing which might be worse
I think Harry Potter is good, just not my taste, it’s too whimsical. Almost certainly doesn’t make you less literate though
They mean "*watching* Harry Potter makes you less literate." That sh*t ain't in the books. If you read them, you would know.
🙋♂️ hi, idiot here... why can't we say Macbeth?
I think watching movies might make you less literate. The song is from the movies not the books.