Absolutely not. Without Tim’s optimism and reverence of the Batman mantle, Bruce would’ve gone down a violent path. That’s not a role Damian could’ve taken, if anything he’d probably make it worse.
What they should do is have Tim in the movie and kick him out of the Robin role at the end
I’d rather he be off globe trotting and obsessively solving cases to the point of near derangement as Red Robin like in the comic. Would be a good tie in with the league of assassins thing we’ll get in the Batman movie
That’s more a thing you do with him after Damian takes his spot. For the first movie I think it would work best to have him temporarily out of the picture and focus on Bruce, Dick and Alfred bonding with him, then build up Tim in a sequel or tv show or something. Jason should be “dead” for the same reason. He would be great to properly explore in an adaption of Under the Red Hood later on.
I disagree. I’d say he needs to be Robin when Damian is introduced, then whenever Damian also becomes Robin in the movie, have him feel like he’s being pushed out and leave at the end of the movie. Then we can see him as Red Robin or Drake or whatever in the next one
As long as Bruce doesn’t intentionally make Tim give up the mantle to Damian, I’m fine with that. Like maybe Bruce tries to make having two Robins work but Tim doesn’t think it’s going to work in the end and decides to leave. I can’t really see Bruce straight up telling Tim to willingly give up the mantle to Damian.
>Like maybe Bruce tries to make having two Robins work but Tim doesn’t think it’s going to work in the end and decides to leave.
This could work on the logic of Tim determining that when he joined as Robin, it was because Bruce needed him to help him heal, but now that time has passed, Bruce has healed and no longer needs him, but now Damian needs Bruce to move away from the violence and death he was raised in.
I can work with that. I just don’t want Bruce to just forcibly Tim to give that mantle to Damian and deny him of it. Tim leaving on his own accord even when Bruce tries to make two Robin work is the best way to go about it imo.
It is worth noting though that Tim had the Robin name taken from him in the comics, though that was under different circumstances that I doubt we'll have in these movies, as by that point Bruce was "dead" and Dick became Batman, deciding to take Damian as his Robin in order to keep an eye on Damian and feeling like he couldn't regard Tim as a subordinate. In this case, that clearly wouldn't work the same way as we probably won't get DickBats (Hope we will anyways but probably won't).
But yeah, I think that Tim willingly giving it up to help Damian would be a good way to give Tim an arc in the movie as well. It allows him to see Damian as someone who needs help just like Bruce once did, and make a choice just like he did when he became Robin in the first place.
Yeah that’s partly why I worry about how Tim will leave. While I do agree that in the comics, the circumstances were different (since Dick was Batman at the time), the idea of Tim having the Robin mantle taken away from him by Damian and not having a say in it, just seems really wrong.
Yes this one of the few options that make sense. He wouldn’t really be retired but just at college and he occasionally has too show fight crime as robin before officially forming Young Justice sometime in chapter 2.
I agree but one thing I wonder is how exactly does Damian become Tim’s replacement? Does Bruce straight up tells Tim to hand over the mantle to Damian?
It’s an adaptation. It’s not gonna be the same thing. Having a violent Bruce have to mentor an even more violent Damian would give him a reason to be a better example for his son.
I love Tim, but he’s just one character that’s not needed, sadly. The movie won’t have time to develop Bruce, Damian, presumably Nightwing, and ALSO Tim, without making him a really small part of the movie like Ben Reilly in ATSV.
That’s why people are pushing so hard for Tim to be the Robin in the teen titans movie for this universe. It’s been like 40 years of live action Batman movies that haven’t fleshed the family out at all and I think that’s starting to get ridiculous. Theres no reason we can’t have Tim drake
I agree about the Bat Family being poorly fleshed out, but for an actual film, it’s just too many characters. Bruce, Nightwing, Damian, and Oracle seem like the perfect setup for a movie (at least the first one).
I suppose your idea makes the most sense, with Tim in the Titans. The issue with that tho, where does that leave Nightwing?
Nightwing is an adult, presumably in his mid-late 20s. He doesn’t need to be hanging out with the “teen” titans anymore. Assuming the titans are the version with Bart, Conner, and Cassie, I’m imagining Nightwing is just gonna be a solo franchise. He’s certainly popular enough to carry his own weight and if we can get three ant man movies we can get a few nightwing movies. If it were up to me said movies would have cameos from Wally, Roy, and Donna, and have Kori as a supporting character/love interest but that might be greedy. But this way we can have both Nightwing and Tim/Robin/Red Robin existing in a way that’s both fair to their characters and not suffocating to what they want to do with Damian
>>It’s an adaptation. It’s not gonna be the same thing. Having a violent Bruce have to mentor an even more violent Damian would give him a reason to be a better example his son.
Yep. I can see them going this route.
>>I love Tim, but he’s just one character that’s not needed, sadly. The movie won’t have time to develop Bruce, Damian, presumably Nightwing, and ALSO Tim, without making him a really small part of the movie like Ben Reilly in ATSV.
Yep. Another solid point. Even across multiple films and shows, there’s only so much time the DCU can devote to Batman-related characters. At a certain point it becomes a “quality versus quantity” issue in terms of character development.
Tim is definitely needed in dcu he can show up in TBatB as the active robin alongside oracle Cassandra cain with Nightwing showing up when needed but he works from Bludhaven. Damian shows up in the he has a sort of mini rivalry with Tim. Tim decides he wants to go too college alongside Stephanie brown before eventually returning in TT movie or showing up in Young justice project in Chapter 2
Who said the movie was gonna “develop” nightwing or Tim…??
It’s based off Batman and Son. You do realize Tim and Dick do basically nothing in that comic right??? (Hell dick wasn’t even in Batman and Son)
Nightwing is almost 100% guaranteed. James is going to bring the characters we haven’t seen yet to live action, and Nightwings one of the most popular.
Also, it’d be pretty weird to NOT involve him. The first Robin, shows Bruce has experience, gives him someone of his level to bounce off of, etc.
They said the bat family is gonna show up. I never heard anyone working on the movie say anything about “developing” them.
It wouldn’t be weird not to have him. He has nothing to do with Damian and Bruce’s relationship. And makes no appearance in the comic this is based off of.
The movie is about Bruce and Damian. Not Nightwing. He does not serve any unique role outside of being a stand in for Tim Drake.
You could already “show Bruce has experience” by telling us he has a had 3 robins already. The fact he has a 10 year old son means Batman is experienced enough and pushing 40
Characters usually show up in movies to be developed. Or to help develop the other characters. That’s what film is.
Also, movies are supposed to show us things, not tell us. It means nothing if we hear he had other “kids”, whereas it’d actually matter more if we at least saw one of them.
You do realize Damian and Bruce aren’t gonna be the only characters, right?
Not every character. Plently of characters are in a film and don’t “develop”.
They could literally just show Tim Drake… and again how is a ten year old son not showing his experience
They won’t be. But the film is about them. Meaning other BatFamily characters don’t have to get story arcs. Or their own plots.
Batman and Son is not about the BatFamily.
… “or help develop other characters”.
Tim isn’t as popular as Dick is.
You’re right. Movies like Civil War weren’t about people like Black Panther, so why would we expect them to have an arc?
Batman and Son is not about Dick Grayson “developing” Damian or Bruce.
That… doesn’t matter since most people don’t even know who df Tim Drake or Dick Grayson is.
They know Robin. And even less people know Nightwing. Robin >> Nightwing in popularity. Unless you’re asking for Dick Grayson to be the only bat family member besides one Batgirl.
Ahhh you tried to be disingenuous and cherry pick black panther in civil war.
The movie was about him. Just not only him. He had a big role and was one of the few characters with character development in that entire movie.
Who said Civil War wasn’t supposed to be about the people fighting??? Last time I checked Civil War is supposed to be about a lot of heroes.
Nothing in comparison to Batman and Son which is exclusively about Damian and Bruce.
Try again.
The Teen Titans cartoon was huge. Dick Grayson IS Robin — that’s who people know.
The Batman (2022) isn’t about Catwoman. She still has an arc. My point is that supporting characters can get it too.
You fans are soooo unwilling to accept any change. The crazy part is that, Nightwing was IN the Batman & Son movie from years ago. You had an issue with that?
I think if *Son of the Demon* is used to inform Bruce, Talia, and Damian's backstory, I can see introducing Damian to Batman after Jason's death working. Batman is spiraling from the loss of one son, and then discovers that the unborn son he thought he also lost is actually alive. The unborn child who represented the potential happiness a younger Bruce Wayne might've had. Prompting an emotional response from Batman that begins to pull him out of his self-destruction.
Kicking Tim out of the Robin identity at the end also seems like quite an unpleasant notion for all involved.
Kicking Tim out of Robin is what happened in the original.
And like I said, Bruce’s reaction to Damian was not pleasant in any regard, especially considering the nature of him not knowing Damian was alive and Damian’s personality itself. Bruce NEEDED Tim to keep him from being something worse than he was, and not just because he was a kid Bruce had to take care of. It was who Tim was fundamentally and what he did for Bruce. Besides Tim’s reaction to Damian was a big part of the original Batman and Som story. Taking that out would be silly
You can’t have Jason without Tim, and can’t have Tim without Jason. That’s why the DCAMU skipped both and went straight to Damian. Jason -> Damian just doesn’t work without Tim to transition
Tim being unceremoniously divested of the Robin identity worked in the comics because of the unique status quo brought about by Bruce's "death." Dick choosing to replace Tim with Damian works in specifically in that context with those three characters. It would not have worked had Bruce still been "alive."
Tim Drake is my favorite Robin, and I do not dispute that he was instrumental in the late 80s and 90s in pulling Bruce back from the brink after Jason's death. However, I think in an adaptation, one which takes influence from *Son of the Demon* to inform the characters, I think you can do a similar but different story that combines elements of *Batman and Son* and *A Lonely Place of Dying*.
I also think the "Batman needs a Robin" credo of *A Lonely Place of Dying*, at least as its presented the original 1989 comic, is a bit of a hard sell to modern audiences. It works in the somewhat old fashioned comic book presentation of that story. By contrast, I think a modern film showing that Batman has to change for Damian, so he can be the father and mentor Damian needs, is an easier sell for Robin to general audiences.
I agree with your first point but I don’t think any of that is reason to skip him entirely. Tim is a very important part of the Batman mythos and not having him is just silly to me. If we’re finally getting a flashed out batfamily on screen then cutting one of the most developed and most important members of said family seems like a serious misstep to me
I understand where you’re coming from, but these are the challenges involved in adaptation. If instead of the DCU we were getting a long running Batman TV show, and/or a Batman Cinematic Universe, then I think we’d see almost every Bat-family member at some point. But we’re talking about the DCU. There are only so many films and TV shows they can make, and only a fraction of them can focus on Batman-related characters. Especially as Gunn likes obscure C-Listers. So you only have so much screen time to devote to developing the Bat-family and the character relationships.
Then just put Tim in the titans. But don’t skip him, especially since if they skip him they won’t do cass or Stephanie or Duke, and possibly not even jason
They could put him in the Titans, but I can also see them preferring to use Nightwing or Damian in a Titans film to further develop those characters and flesh them out in a different context.
I also don’t think no Tim Drake means characters like Cassandra Cain, Duke Thomas, or Jason Todd will be omitted. Though I doubt all of them will be included just due to space restrictions. Stephanie I can see being removed alongside Tim unfortunately, though I wouldn’t entirely rule her out.
Here’s the thing about it tho: they can be done justice. People know who Tim Drake is. We don’t need a whole thing explaining him, or a whole long running series. Why aren’t we making the same assumptions about dick Grayson? And just based on Gunn’s approach to Superman and the faithfulness he’s kept for that part of the universe, I don’t find it unbelievable that we’re gonna get Tim Drake. He did say Batman “family” and just Bruce dick and Barbara hardly make it a family
I think general audiences know who Robin is, and might even have some notion that there are multiple Robins. They’re probably familiar with Dick Grayson on some level. Ofc, it’s more about how much information a given film can give to the audience without it being overload.
As for just Bruce, Dick, and Barbara (and Alfred) not being much of a “family” that’s rather subjective. That was the Bat-family in the ‘66 show and BTAS. For most of Batman’s history he’s usually just had a small core of Robin, Alfred, Commissioner Gordon, and sometimes a few other characters as his main supporting case. The large Bat-family of today is a relatively recent invention within Batman’s 85 years of history.
From a storytelling standpoint though I think starting after the death of the second Robin allows you to give the whole Bat-family an arc. We meet the family broken and in tatters due to recent tragedies. Dick and Bruce aren’t on good terms. Batman’s relationship with the Gordon family is strained. Robin is dead. That’s a great starting point dramatically because you can have the characters grow and come back together, and introduce new members. Much as what happened in the comics in the 90s and 2000s after Tim’s introduction.
I don’t think it could work. I understand with Tim in BTAS being Tim and Jason together but I don’t think Damian and Tim would be fused together for Damian.
Part of me thinks Tim still exist but just goes solo, somewhat like Dick going solo to Bludhaven or forming the Titans as Nightwing.
I think it could fit with the theme of Batman having to deal with not having Damian end up like the other Robins (excluding Dick).
- With Jason, Batman blames himself for not saving him as well as Jason seems to be more aggressive and brutal towards criminals, if he were to prevent Jason going after Joker because of his overconfidence he wouldn’t have died.
- I thought of maybe Tim gets into an argument with Batman about something that causes him to leave. Or a near-death/traumatic experience, something like BTAS and Beyond where Tim gets kidnapped to be brainwashed by the Joker and he almost kills Batman, although it would have been repetitive in having a Robin facing a life or death situation like Jason.
Both of them fits with Damian being overconfident and aggressive like Jason, and talking back at Batman like Tim. Which is why this time Dick comes in to help out Batman with Damian as maybe Dick wasn’t around with Jason or Tim as much due to him doing his own thing.
I appreciate your thoughtful response.
Adaptations being so much more limited than ongoing comics, have to be a lot more economical. You can't have much overlap without bogging down the film or TV show. Your two main ideas for what to do with Tim are really just variations of the first two Robins' stories. Getting into an argument with Batman and then going solo is Nightwing' story. Having Tim being devastated by something traumatic at the hands of the Joker is, as you noted, just another version of Jason's story. The things you suggest doing with Tim are already accomplished by Nightwing's existence and Jason's death.
Also, once Damian comes along, you'd then have to figure out what to do with Tim Drake, and it can't just be a version of Nightwing or Red Hood. In the comics this worked because Bruce was "dead" and that unique status quo allowed Dick, Damian, and Tim to each have room for clear distinct storylines that weren't overlapping. But obviously Bruce will be alive and well in the DCU.
I had another idea of maybe having Tim be part of the Titans the whole time during TBATB as Red Robin, while Nightwing introduces Damian to Tim and the team in the Teen Titans movie.
As Nightwing would still be part of the team but as someone who overlooks everyone, with Starfire in a similar position. While Tim basically takes Dick’s place back when he was Robin and formed the team.
Edit: You could maybe fuse Dick and Jason’s outing as he argues with Batman a lot more (he’s almost as smart as Batman). Then Batman gets captured and almost killed as Tim saves him but accidentally killing whoever was gonna kill him. Tim agrees Batman about the ‘0 kill rule’ but the fact he broke it just makes himself ashamed even if Bruce says that it was an accident.
Im sorry but this is horrible. Tim already gets done dirty enough, he has so much potential and relationships
He’s close to Steph and Cass in the Batfamily, his Young Justice pals are cool. Would be a waste to merge the two
I think they should just do Damian's introduction as it is in Grant's run and then just carry the story on from Tomasi's run. The League of assassins and R'as should be recurring characters and villains throughout the DCU, especially the batfamily side of it
I doubt it.
An early Damian is not supposed to affect Bruce like that. You’d have to get rid of a lot of his core traits, and character development.
Both Tim and Damian are too different to just be combined. A Lonely Place of Dying is impossible to mesh with Batman and Son. Out of pure curiosity, how does a story like that work when both Batman and Robin are dark and out of control??
Unless you just change Damian into 10 year old Ibn Al Xu’ffasch or 10 year old Tallant Wayne.
Idk how Batman is gonna be balanced by someone who is gonna be even more violent and murderous than him.
How is he gonna be convinced to take another Robin? Is Damian go through years of development all in one movie??
I had many of the same thoughts and concerns you do. But after thinking about it more I think it can work. In some ways it’s a more extreme version of Dick Grayson’s origin as Robin. There you have an early years dark violent Batman who takes in a young Dick Grayson, who is out for Tony Zucco’s blood. Bruce sees himself in the young man and eventually brings him into his life as Batman to give him a better path.
I think you could do something similar with Bruce and Damian, just a lot more high stakes if you will.
I think especially if *Son of the Demon* is a major influence on the characters’ backstories, that can make it work. Bruce has recently lost one son, only to discover the unborn son he thought he also lost is in fact alive. The unborn child who was conceived during a time when Bruce was truly happy. That changes Bruce’s response to Damian quite a bit I think. And thus I think you can give him an arc where he realizes he needs to change course from the hyper violent self destructive place he’s been in. In order to be the father and mentor Damian needs.
I get what you mean with that. But Dick wasn’t as violent as Damian. Nor was he as committed to violence as Damian.
But In LPOD Bruce’s violence was written as a really bad thing. In the golden age, Bruces violence wasn’t written all that bad, but I have a better understanding of your vision.
Idk how Son of Demon could be a major influence. I thought this was based off the Grant Morrison run. Those are 2 contradictory stories. Damian is not supposed to be from when Bruce is happy.
Or else Damian would have never been in the LoA.
Batman is supposed to be drugged, because that’s the best explanation you give to him having sex with someone trying to kill him and like 6 billion people.
But I guess he could change in order to take responsibility over something thrown his way.
Gunn has stated it is based off Morrison’s run, and that Damian will be an assassin, and a little SOB. However, as we both know the live action Batman films always take bits and pieces from different stories and splice them together. Just look at how the *The Dark Knight* film essentially took the gist of the Joker’s scheme to break a sane man from *The Killing Joke* and merged it with Two-face’s origin story in *The Long Halloween*.
Tbh, I’m not sure how much of Morrison’s run BatB can directly draw from as Morrison deliberately didn’t develop Bruce and Damian’s relationship much. Yet that appears to be what the heart of this film will be about. So they’ll have to draw from other comics too, as you’d expect.
As far as Bruce and the Al Ghul’s go, it depends on how they present it. After all, *Son of the Demon* does present a scenario where Bruce and Ra’s do reconcile their differences and Batman does get with Talia. They could also have the Bruce and Talia romance be set during his Pre-Batman years abroad if they go with the idea of Bruce being trained by the League.
I also think the death of Jason Todd could add another element here if they draw from the animated adaption of that story. Making Ra’s the terrorist the Joker sold nuclear weapons to. Leading to Bruce cutting ties with the Al Ghuls. In the UtRH film, Ra’s regret over how he inadvertently played a role in Jason’s death is what led him to resurrect Jason in the Lazarus Pit. I could see a similar motivation causing him and Talia to decide to reveal to Bruce his unborn son is alive. Ofc, Ra’s could also be playing his own game of trying to use Damian to take advantage of Batman’s emotionally vulnerable state and manipulate Bruce in joining forces with him again.
Well I feel like you gotta do a lot more than just make a ten year old Robin a former assassin to truly base it off the Morrison run. And since Gunn says it’s his favorite Robin I highly doubt he wants this to be a normal story that just happens to be hyper competent and a former killer.
That is true they take bits and pieces.
Yes Morrison did not focus too much on Bruce and Damian. I assumed the rest was gonna be filled with Tomasi stuff.
Or maybe they were gonna take away Dick Grayson stuff, and give it Bruce. Because Batman and Son is not a story you can directly adapt. You need to add stuff to it.
The thing with that is Damian was created by Talia with intent of murdering Bruce, murdering and taking over the world. How exactly do you explain Bruce falling for that without making him look like a weirdo??
The son of the demon route doesn’t work, because they’re gonna explain why Talia would keep the child and raise him to kill people, replace his dad, and take over the world.
It kind of pushes the idea that she didn’t even love him in SOD, and was just faking it, so Bruce could give her a child.
I’m not sure about it happening pre Batman. Is it in character for Bruce to do this when he is dedicated to the mission??? Especially when it is again with a woman that is just using him as a sperm donor.
That UTRH stuff could work I guess, but if they’re both in agreement to hide away the children of the guy who bases his entire life on his parents, it seems off for them to care about Jason.
As they would know, hiding his son is already pretty evil.
Cuz I can’t imagine an in character Batman would be ok not being there for his children growing up. When he himself obviously was in pain of his parents not being there.
>
Incorporating Tim organically into the film could involve portraying him as Robin, initially working alongside Batman. However, a significant falling out occurs between them when Bruce becomes increasingly concerned about Tim's safety, fearing that he is putting him in danger by involving him in life-threatening situations. Tim, feeling hurt and rejected, expresses his frustration, arguing that pushing away loved ones only leads to further pain. Bruce, driven by his belief that he must endure solitude to protect others, remains steadfast in his decision.
Good question. So I imagine this would moreso be Damian Wayne with some of Tim Drake’s storylines and plot beats reimagined for Damian’s character.
I particularly like the notion of Batman meeting Damian after the death of Jason Todd. Especially if *Son of the Demon* is a major influence on the backstories of the characters. Having just lost one son, Bruce learns the unborn son he thought he also lost all those years ago is actually alive. Bruce eventually realizes he has to turn away from the self destructive course he’s been on since Jason’s death and become the mentor and father figure Damian needs.
There are some other broader aspects to it. Such as it allowing the DCU to begin with a Batman and Bat-family that have been broken and torn apart by tragedy, but over the course of the films and shows, we see the Bat-family rebuild and grow again. It gives the Batman characters a unified arc and direction by introducing Damian after Jason Todd’s death.
Na I think it’s good to see a Robin who has to grow up and leave the nest to become something else (since we’ll already have passed that point with Nightwing) when he’s replaced by Damian
That is where some of the redundancy comes in though. Because with Nightwing you already have the Robin who left and became something else.
While I understand your point about Nightwing pre-existing meaning the transition is already completed, I rather doubt if Tim were included his journey from Robin to...whatever he becomes...would get much focus. On that note, unlike Nightwing, there's really no clearly established storyline for where Tim goes after leaving the Robin identity. Not unless you're directly adapting the Batman Reborn-era *Red Robin* series, but that requires having the specific status quo of Bruce Wayne being "dead." If Bruce is still alive, then Red Robin is essentially just a less compelling version of Nightwing. Too much overlap for a compressed medium like film.
I don’t think Tim becoming something else would get focus in Brave and the bold, no (if anything his disposability could just be used to instill doubt in Damian about how little Bruce cares about his “sons”) but perhaps in the rumored Teen Titans movie, he could be your pov character as Dick brings him into the fold or maybe even gets the defunct Titans going again solely for Tim
>>if anything his disposability could just be used to instill doubt in Damian about how little Bruce cares about his “sons”
What an awful way to portray Batman. Why would anyone want that? Smh
Maybe that’s just Damian’s perception and perhaps Tim’s, as Bruce isn’t always the best at expressing how much people mean to him, a potential arc for Bruce. Maybe after Jason he got even worse at that, not letting himself get attached, when in actuality he has the utmost confidence in Tim to go solo.
Also you might wanna work on your manners and refrain from terms like smh when just spitballing ideas about comic book characters. If you’re going to be concerned with your beloved characters being portrayed “awfully” you may want to consider applying that to yourself as well. Food for thought!
What could Damain take from Tim, except being the Robin after Jason? They most likely will skip him alltogether. Maybe have him down the line as a cameo as Tim Drake only, no Robin.
As much i like Tim. I don’t see him fitting in Gunn’s verse unless they do a long term plan if assuming Damian actor grows up and take up the mantle when Bruce dies in a Tony Stark endgame scenario. I can see a massive change where Tim becomes Damian’s Robin as a reminder Batman should not fight alone.
I would absolutely despise this. Tim is the hope that Batman needs to pull him out of his grief over Jason Todd. Damian cannot be that hope, it's not fitting of the character. What they should have done is have Tim be the current Robin, have Jason be "dead" as of now in the DCU, and have Dick be Nightwing in Bludhaven (or have him as another Gotham hero if they want to remain concise and not have everyone spread out). Damian could be Tim's replacement, either because he's going off to high school or because he's taking up the role of Red Robin. There's ways to have the whole Batfamily in this universe that I desperately hope Gunn and Co. are taking into account.
Adaptation needs to serve the script , not the original narrative . If that made a good MOVIE Sure . People do seem to gloss over the fact that film and comic books are not the same and I believe truly as a fan of both , James Gunn’s DCU should not be like the MCU and instead hopefully try to make good films based on comic books , not comic book films .
Bruce in his 40s - Josh Hartnett
Dick as Nightwing in his mid 20s - Timothee Chalamet
Jason presumed dead in his 20s (introduces Red Hood in a sequel) - Jacob Elordi
Tim in his teens as the current Robin - TBD
Damian in his pre-teens (becomes Robin in a sequel) - TBD
even though Bruce Wayne is at the center of the Bat Family, the audience POV is mainly from Dick Grayson's perspective through the DCU. this would distinguish it from The Batman, and Robert Pattinson's character development.
I mean yea. They could have Damian start out normal brat mode and end being more like tim.
Lets be real Tims the most boring of the robins other than the chick from dark knight returns
Hes not the first
He doesnt die
Hes not bruces kid
Hes just the replacement for Jason.
I'm a fan of Tim drake I have to be honest I hate this comment. saying that Tim is a boring Robin and has nothing interesting compared to the others is literally the same thing people do with Superman!
Tim has over 20 years of history but is it boring just because it can't be summarized in a short sentence? and it's also very easy to say that with one of the other Robins literally using his storys.
That’s an option. Doesn’t solve that the Bat-Family in general is arguably too large to develop everyone believably in a series of 2-2.5 hour long movies. Do these movies start with Dick Grayson as Batman, then they reintroduce Bruce Wayne as Batman later in an outlandish way so we finally have our fully fantastical Batman movie franchise? How do we reconcile all the Batgirls as well. It’s more important that they maintain the mixed ethnicity of Damien than whether his characterization mixes him with Tim Drake.
Majority of DC fans will murder James Gunn for doing this. Because dc fans are very backward minded , they want movies to be exactly like comics , if there will be a slight difference then they will not go to theatres, watch online reviews and criticise the movie by watching those reviews. Such fans don't deserve to call themselves dc fan .
Absolutely not. Without Tim’s optimism and reverence of the Batman mantle, Bruce would’ve gone down a violent path. That’s not a role Damian could’ve taken, if anything he’d probably make it worse. What they should do is have Tim in the movie and kick him out of the Robin role at the end
Tim should be off at school or something, soft retired. They could address him further in a sequel or YJ/Teen Titans project.
I’d rather he be off globe trotting and obsessively solving cases to the point of near derangement as Red Robin like in the comic. Would be a good tie in with the league of assassins thing we’ll get in the Batman movie
That’s more a thing you do with him after Damian takes his spot. For the first movie I think it would work best to have him temporarily out of the picture and focus on Bruce, Dick and Alfred bonding with him, then build up Tim in a sequel or tv show or something. Jason should be “dead” for the same reason. He would be great to properly explore in an adaption of Under the Red Hood later on.
I disagree. I’d say he needs to be Robin when Damian is introduced, then whenever Damian also becomes Robin in the movie, have him feel like he’s being pushed out and leave at the end of the movie. Then we can see him as Red Robin or Drake or whatever in the next one
As long as Bruce doesn’t intentionally make Tim give up the mantle to Damian, I’m fine with that. Like maybe Bruce tries to make having two Robins work but Tim doesn’t think it’s going to work in the end and decides to leave. I can’t really see Bruce straight up telling Tim to willingly give up the mantle to Damian.
>Like maybe Bruce tries to make having two Robins work but Tim doesn’t think it’s going to work in the end and decides to leave. This could work on the logic of Tim determining that when he joined as Robin, it was because Bruce needed him to help him heal, but now that time has passed, Bruce has healed and no longer needs him, but now Damian needs Bruce to move away from the violence and death he was raised in.
I can work with that. I just don’t want Bruce to just forcibly Tim to give that mantle to Damian and deny him of it. Tim leaving on his own accord even when Bruce tries to make two Robin work is the best way to go about it imo.
It is worth noting though that Tim had the Robin name taken from him in the comics, though that was under different circumstances that I doubt we'll have in these movies, as by that point Bruce was "dead" and Dick became Batman, deciding to take Damian as his Robin in order to keep an eye on Damian and feeling like he couldn't regard Tim as a subordinate. In this case, that clearly wouldn't work the same way as we probably won't get DickBats (Hope we will anyways but probably won't). But yeah, I think that Tim willingly giving it up to help Damian would be a good way to give Tim an arc in the movie as well. It allows him to see Damian as someone who needs help just like Bruce once did, and make a choice just like he did when he became Robin in the first place.
Yeah that’s partly why I worry about how Tim will leave. While I do agree that in the comics, the circumstances were different (since Dick was Batman at the time), the idea of Tim having the Robin mantle taken away from him by Damian and not having a say in it, just seems really wrong.
Ngl this would be the best option to do that or college
Yes this one of the few options that make sense. He wouldn’t really be retired but just at college and he occasionally has too show fight crime as robin before officially forming Young Justice sometime in chapter 2.
I agree but one thing I wonder is how exactly does Damian become Tim’s replacement? Does Bruce straight up tells Tim to hand over the mantle to Damian?
It’s an adaptation. It’s not gonna be the same thing. Having a violent Bruce have to mentor an even more violent Damian would give him a reason to be a better example for his son. I love Tim, but he’s just one character that’s not needed, sadly. The movie won’t have time to develop Bruce, Damian, presumably Nightwing, and ALSO Tim, without making him a really small part of the movie like Ben Reilly in ATSV.
That’s why people are pushing so hard for Tim to be the Robin in the teen titans movie for this universe. It’s been like 40 years of live action Batman movies that haven’t fleshed the family out at all and I think that’s starting to get ridiculous. Theres no reason we can’t have Tim drake
I agree about the Bat Family being poorly fleshed out, but for an actual film, it’s just too many characters. Bruce, Nightwing, Damian, and Oracle seem like the perfect setup for a movie (at least the first one). I suppose your idea makes the most sense, with Tim in the Titans. The issue with that tho, where does that leave Nightwing?
Nightwing is an adult, presumably in his mid-late 20s. He doesn’t need to be hanging out with the “teen” titans anymore. Assuming the titans are the version with Bart, Conner, and Cassie, I’m imagining Nightwing is just gonna be a solo franchise. He’s certainly popular enough to carry his own weight and if we can get three ant man movies we can get a few nightwing movies. If it were up to me said movies would have cameos from Wally, Roy, and Donna, and have Kori as a supporting character/love interest but that might be greedy. But this way we can have both Nightwing and Tim/Robin/Red Robin existing in a way that’s both fair to their characters and not suffocating to what they want to do with Damian
>>It’s an adaptation. It’s not gonna be the same thing. Having a violent Bruce have to mentor an even more violent Damian would give him a reason to be a better example his son. Yep. I can see them going this route. >>I love Tim, but he’s just one character that’s not needed, sadly. The movie won’t have time to develop Bruce, Damian, presumably Nightwing, and ALSO Tim, without making him a really small part of the movie like Ben Reilly in ATSV. Yep. Another solid point. Even across multiple films and shows, there’s only so much time the DCU can devote to Batman-related characters. At a certain point it becomes a “quality versus quantity” issue in terms of character development.
Tim is definitely needed in dcu he can show up in TBatB as the active robin alongside oracle Cassandra cain with Nightwing showing up when needed but he works from Bludhaven. Damian shows up in the he has a sort of mini rivalry with Tim. Tim decides he wants to go too college alongside Stephanie brown before eventually returning in TT movie or showing up in Young justice project in Chapter 2
Who said the movie was gonna “develop” nightwing or Tim…?? It’s based off Batman and Son. You do realize Tim and Dick do basically nothing in that comic right??? (Hell dick wasn’t even in Batman and Son)
Nightwing is almost 100% guaranteed. James is going to bring the characters we haven’t seen yet to live action, and Nightwings one of the most popular. Also, it’d be pretty weird to NOT involve him. The first Robin, shows Bruce has experience, gives him someone of his level to bounce off of, etc.
They said the bat family is gonna show up. I never heard anyone working on the movie say anything about “developing” them. It wouldn’t be weird not to have him. He has nothing to do with Damian and Bruce’s relationship. And makes no appearance in the comic this is based off of. The movie is about Bruce and Damian. Not Nightwing. He does not serve any unique role outside of being a stand in for Tim Drake. You could already “show Bruce has experience” by telling us he has a had 3 robins already. The fact he has a 10 year old son means Batman is experienced enough and pushing 40
Characters usually show up in movies to be developed. Or to help develop the other characters. That’s what film is. Also, movies are supposed to show us things, not tell us. It means nothing if we hear he had other “kids”, whereas it’d actually matter more if we at least saw one of them. You do realize Damian and Bruce aren’t gonna be the only characters, right?
Not every character. Plently of characters are in a film and don’t “develop”. They could literally just show Tim Drake… and again how is a ten year old son not showing his experience They won’t be. But the film is about them. Meaning other BatFamily characters don’t have to get story arcs. Or their own plots. Batman and Son is not about the BatFamily.
… “or help develop other characters”. Tim isn’t as popular as Dick is. You’re right. Movies like Civil War weren’t about people like Black Panther, so why would we expect them to have an arc?
Batman and Son is not about Dick Grayson “developing” Damian or Bruce. That… doesn’t matter since most people don’t even know who df Tim Drake or Dick Grayson is. They know Robin. And even less people know Nightwing. Robin >> Nightwing in popularity. Unless you’re asking for Dick Grayson to be the only bat family member besides one Batgirl. Ahhh you tried to be disingenuous and cherry pick black panther in civil war. The movie was about him. Just not only him. He had a big role and was one of the few characters with character development in that entire movie. Who said Civil War wasn’t supposed to be about the people fighting??? Last time I checked Civil War is supposed to be about a lot of heroes. Nothing in comparison to Batman and Son which is exclusively about Damian and Bruce. Try again.
The Teen Titans cartoon was huge. Dick Grayson IS Robin — that’s who people know. The Batman (2022) isn’t about Catwoman. She still has an arc. My point is that supporting characters can get it too. You fans are soooo unwilling to accept any change. The crazy part is that, Nightwing was IN the Batman & Son movie from years ago. You had an issue with that?
I think if *Son of the Demon* is used to inform Bruce, Talia, and Damian's backstory, I can see introducing Damian to Batman after Jason's death working. Batman is spiraling from the loss of one son, and then discovers that the unborn son he thought he also lost is actually alive. The unborn child who represented the potential happiness a younger Bruce Wayne might've had. Prompting an emotional response from Batman that begins to pull him out of his self-destruction. Kicking Tim out of the Robin identity at the end also seems like quite an unpleasant notion for all involved.
Kicking Tim out of Robin is what happened in the original. And like I said, Bruce’s reaction to Damian was not pleasant in any regard, especially considering the nature of him not knowing Damian was alive and Damian’s personality itself. Bruce NEEDED Tim to keep him from being something worse than he was, and not just because he was a kid Bruce had to take care of. It was who Tim was fundamentally and what he did for Bruce. Besides Tim’s reaction to Damian was a big part of the original Batman and Som story. Taking that out would be silly You can’t have Jason without Tim, and can’t have Tim without Jason. That’s why the DCAMU skipped both and went straight to Damian. Jason -> Damian just doesn’t work without Tim to transition
Tim being unceremoniously divested of the Robin identity worked in the comics because of the unique status quo brought about by Bruce's "death." Dick choosing to replace Tim with Damian works in specifically in that context with those three characters. It would not have worked had Bruce still been "alive." Tim Drake is my favorite Robin, and I do not dispute that he was instrumental in the late 80s and 90s in pulling Bruce back from the brink after Jason's death. However, I think in an adaptation, one which takes influence from *Son of the Demon* to inform the characters, I think you can do a similar but different story that combines elements of *Batman and Son* and *A Lonely Place of Dying*. I also think the "Batman needs a Robin" credo of *A Lonely Place of Dying*, at least as its presented the original 1989 comic, is a bit of a hard sell to modern audiences. It works in the somewhat old fashioned comic book presentation of that story. By contrast, I think a modern film showing that Batman has to change for Damian, so he can be the father and mentor Damian needs, is an easier sell for Robin to general audiences.
I agree with your first point but I don’t think any of that is reason to skip him entirely. Tim is a very important part of the Batman mythos and not having him is just silly to me. If we’re finally getting a flashed out batfamily on screen then cutting one of the most developed and most important members of said family seems like a serious misstep to me
I understand where you’re coming from, but these are the challenges involved in adaptation. If instead of the DCU we were getting a long running Batman TV show, and/or a Batman Cinematic Universe, then I think we’d see almost every Bat-family member at some point. But we’re talking about the DCU. There are only so many films and TV shows they can make, and only a fraction of them can focus on Batman-related characters. Especially as Gunn likes obscure C-Listers. So you only have so much screen time to devote to developing the Bat-family and the character relationships.
Then just put Tim in the titans. But don’t skip him, especially since if they skip him they won’t do cass or Stephanie or Duke, and possibly not even jason
They could put him in the Titans, but I can also see them preferring to use Nightwing or Damian in a Titans film to further develop those characters and flesh them out in a different context. I also don’t think no Tim Drake means characters like Cassandra Cain, Duke Thomas, or Jason Todd will be omitted. Though I doubt all of them will be included just due to space restrictions. Stephanie I can see being removed alongside Tim unfortunately, though I wouldn’t entirely rule her out.
Here’s the thing about it tho: they can be done justice. People know who Tim Drake is. We don’t need a whole thing explaining him, or a whole long running series. Why aren’t we making the same assumptions about dick Grayson? And just based on Gunn’s approach to Superman and the faithfulness he’s kept for that part of the universe, I don’t find it unbelievable that we’re gonna get Tim Drake. He did say Batman “family” and just Bruce dick and Barbara hardly make it a family
I think general audiences know who Robin is, and might even have some notion that there are multiple Robins. They’re probably familiar with Dick Grayson on some level. Ofc, it’s more about how much information a given film can give to the audience without it being overload. As for just Bruce, Dick, and Barbara (and Alfred) not being much of a “family” that’s rather subjective. That was the Bat-family in the ‘66 show and BTAS. For most of Batman’s history he’s usually just had a small core of Robin, Alfred, Commissioner Gordon, and sometimes a few other characters as his main supporting case. The large Bat-family of today is a relatively recent invention within Batman’s 85 years of history. From a storytelling standpoint though I think starting after the death of the second Robin allows you to give the whole Bat-family an arc. We meet the family broken and in tatters due to recent tragedies. Dick and Bruce aren’t on good terms. Batman’s relationship with the Gordon family is strained. Robin is dead. That’s a great starting point dramatically because you can have the characters grow and come back together, and introduce new members. Much as what happened in the comics in the 90s and 2000s after Tim’s introduction.
You could for sure merge them all into one. But why would you want to?
NO!
They could that but they shouldn’t
I don’t think it could work. I understand with Tim in BTAS being Tim and Jason together but I don’t think Damian and Tim would be fused together for Damian. Part of me thinks Tim still exist but just goes solo, somewhat like Dick going solo to Bludhaven or forming the Titans as Nightwing. I think it could fit with the theme of Batman having to deal with not having Damian end up like the other Robins (excluding Dick). - With Jason, Batman blames himself for not saving him as well as Jason seems to be more aggressive and brutal towards criminals, if he were to prevent Jason going after Joker because of his overconfidence he wouldn’t have died. - I thought of maybe Tim gets into an argument with Batman about something that causes him to leave. Or a near-death/traumatic experience, something like BTAS and Beyond where Tim gets kidnapped to be brainwashed by the Joker and he almost kills Batman, although it would have been repetitive in having a Robin facing a life or death situation like Jason. Both of them fits with Damian being overconfident and aggressive like Jason, and talking back at Batman like Tim. Which is why this time Dick comes in to help out Batman with Damian as maybe Dick wasn’t around with Jason or Tim as much due to him doing his own thing.
I appreciate your thoughtful response. Adaptations being so much more limited than ongoing comics, have to be a lot more economical. You can't have much overlap without bogging down the film or TV show. Your two main ideas for what to do with Tim are really just variations of the first two Robins' stories. Getting into an argument with Batman and then going solo is Nightwing' story. Having Tim being devastated by something traumatic at the hands of the Joker is, as you noted, just another version of Jason's story. The things you suggest doing with Tim are already accomplished by Nightwing's existence and Jason's death. Also, once Damian comes along, you'd then have to figure out what to do with Tim Drake, and it can't just be a version of Nightwing or Red Hood. In the comics this worked because Bruce was "dead" and that unique status quo allowed Dick, Damian, and Tim to each have room for clear distinct storylines that weren't overlapping. But obviously Bruce will be alive and well in the DCU.
I had another idea of maybe having Tim be part of the Titans the whole time during TBATB as Red Robin, while Nightwing introduces Damian to Tim and the team in the Teen Titans movie. As Nightwing would still be part of the team but as someone who overlooks everyone, with Starfire in a similar position. While Tim basically takes Dick’s place back when he was Robin and formed the team. Edit: You could maybe fuse Dick and Jason’s outing as he argues with Batman a lot more (he’s almost as smart as Batman). Then Batman gets captured and almost killed as Tim saves him but accidentally killing whoever was gonna kill him. Tim agrees Batman about the ‘0 kill rule’ but the fact he broke it just makes himself ashamed even if Bruce says that it was an accident.
Im sorry but this is horrible. Tim already gets done dirty enough, he has so much potential and relationships He’s close to Steph and Cass in the Batfamily, his Young Justice pals are cool. Would be a waste to merge the two
I think they should just do Damian's introduction as it is in Grant's run and then just carry the story on from Tomasi's run. The League of assassins and R'as should be recurring characters and villains throughout the DCU, especially the batfamily side of it
No
I mean they always merge some elements....but no I don't think this is likely or should happen at all. Absolutely No Though
Think they would be more likely to mix in Tim with Dick and mix in Jason with Damian
Please no. They need their spotlight and important to Batman development. Each Robin is a chapter in Batman’s life and shows how he grew.
HELL NO! Tim is great as is. Damian sucks.
I doubt it. An early Damian is not supposed to affect Bruce like that. You’d have to get rid of a lot of his core traits, and character development. Both Tim and Damian are too different to just be combined. A Lonely Place of Dying is impossible to mesh with Batman and Son. Out of pure curiosity, how does a story like that work when both Batman and Robin are dark and out of control?? Unless you just change Damian into 10 year old Ibn Al Xu’ffasch or 10 year old Tallant Wayne. Idk how Batman is gonna be balanced by someone who is gonna be even more violent and murderous than him. How is he gonna be convinced to take another Robin? Is Damian go through years of development all in one movie??
I had many of the same thoughts and concerns you do. But after thinking about it more I think it can work. In some ways it’s a more extreme version of Dick Grayson’s origin as Robin. There you have an early years dark violent Batman who takes in a young Dick Grayson, who is out for Tony Zucco’s blood. Bruce sees himself in the young man and eventually brings him into his life as Batman to give him a better path. I think you could do something similar with Bruce and Damian, just a lot more high stakes if you will. I think especially if *Son of the Demon* is a major influence on the characters’ backstories, that can make it work. Bruce has recently lost one son, only to discover the unborn son he thought he also lost is in fact alive. The unborn child who was conceived during a time when Bruce was truly happy. That changes Bruce’s response to Damian quite a bit I think. And thus I think you can give him an arc where he realizes he needs to change course from the hyper violent self destructive place he’s been in. In order to be the father and mentor Damian needs.
I get what you mean with that. But Dick wasn’t as violent as Damian. Nor was he as committed to violence as Damian. But In LPOD Bruce’s violence was written as a really bad thing. In the golden age, Bruces violence wasn’t written all that bad, but I have a better understanding of your vision. Idk how Son of Demon could be a major influence. I thought this was based off the Grant Morrison run. Those are 2 contradictory stories. Damian is not supposed to be from when Bruce is happy. Or else Damian would have never been in the LoA. Batman is supposed to be drugged, because that’s the best explanation you give to him having sex with someone trying to kill him and like 6 billion people. But I guess he could change in order to take responsibility over something thrown his way.
Gunn has stated it is based off Morrison’s run, and that Damian will be an assassin, and a little SOB. However, as we both know the live action Batman films always take bits and pieces from different stories and splice them together. Just look at how the *The Dark Knight* film essentially took the gist of the Joker’s scheme to break a sane man from *The Killing Joke* and merged it with Two-face’s origin story in *The Long Halloween*. Tbh, I’m not sure how much of Morrison’s run BatB can directly draw from as Morrison deliberately didn’t develop Bruce and Damian’s relationship much. Yet that appears to be what the heart of this film will be about. So they’ll have to draw from other comics too, as you’d expect. As far as Bruce and the Al Ghul’s go, it depends on how they present it. After all, *Son of the Demon* does present a scenario where Bruce and Ra’s do reconcile their differences and Batman does get with Talia. They could also have the Bruce and Talia romance be set during his Pre-Batman years abroad if they go with the idea of Bruce being trained by the League. I also think the death of Jason Todd could add another element here if they draw from the animated adaption of that story. Making Ra’s the terrorist the Joker sold nuclear weapons to. Leading to Bruce cutting ties with the Al Ghuls. In the UtRH film, Ra’s regret over how he inadvertently played a role in Jason’s death is what led him to resurrect Jason in the Lazarus Pit. I could see a similar motivation causing him and Talia to decide to reveal to Bruce his unborn son is alive. Ofc, Ra’s could also be playing his own game of trying to use Damian to take advantage of Batman’s emotionally vulnerable state and manipulate Bruce in joining forces with him again.
Well I feel like you gotta do a lot more than just make a ten year old Robin a former assassin to truly base it off the Morrison run. And since Gunn says it’s his favorite Robin I highly doubt he wants this to be a normal story that just happens to be hyper competent and a former killer. That is true they take bits and pieces. Yes Morrison did not focus too much on Bruce and Damian. I assumed the rest was gonna be filled with Tomasi stuff. Or maybe they were gonna take away Dick Grayson stuff, and give it Bruce. Because Batman and Son is not a story you can directly adapt. You need to add stuff to it. The thing with that is Damian was created by Talia with intent of murdering Bruce, murdering and taking over the world. How exactly do you explain Bruce falling for that without making him look like a weirdo?? The son of the demon route doesn’t work, because they’re gonna explain why Talia would keep the child and raise him to kill people, replace his dad, and take over the world. It kind of pushes the idea that she didn’t even love him in SOD, and was just faking it, so Bruce could give her a child. I’m not sure about it happening pre Batman. Is it in character for Bruce to do this when he is dedicated to the mission??? Especially when it is again with a woman that is just using him as a sperm donor. That UTRH stuff could work I guess, but if they’re both in agreement to hide away the children of the guy who bases his entire life on his parents, it seems off for them to care about Jason. As they would know, hiding his son is already pretty evil. Cuz I can’t imagine an in character Batman would be ok not being there for his children growing up. When he himself obviously was in pain of his parents not being there.
> Incorporating Tim organically into the film could involve portraying him as Robin, initially working alongside Batman. However, a significant falling out occurs between them when Bruce becomes increasingly concerned about Tim's safety, fearing that he is putting him in danger by involving him in life-threatening situations. Tim, feeling hurt and rejected, expresses his frustration, arguing that pushing away loved ones only leads to further pain. Bruce, driven by his belief that he must endure solitude to protect others, remains steadfast in his decision.
Okay but how exactly would that work? Like what aspects of Tim and Damian would this version have?
Good question. So I imagine this would moreso be Damian Wayne with some of Tim Drake’s storylines and plot beats reimagined for Damian’s character. I particularly like the notion of Batman meeting Damian after the death of Jason Todd. Especially if *Son of the Demon* is a major influence on the backstories of the characters. Having just lost one son, Bruce learns the unborn son he thought he also lost all those years ago is actually alive. Bruce eventually realizes he has to turn away from the self destructive course he’s been on since Jason’s death and become the mentor and father figure Damian needs. There are some other broader aspects to it. Such as it allowing the DCU to begin with a Batman and Bat-family that have been broken and torn apart by tragedy, but over the course of the films and shows, we see the Bat-family rebuild and grow again. It gives the Batman characters a unified arc and direction by introducing Damian after Jason Todd’s death.
Na I think it’s good to see a Robin who has to grow up and leave the nest to become something else (since we’ll already have passed that point with Nightwing) when he’s replaced by Damian
That is where some of the redundancy comes in though. Because with Nightwing you already have the Robin who left and became something else. While I understand your point about Nightwing pre-existing meaning the transition is already completed, I rather doubt if Tim were included his journey from Robin to...whatever he becomes...would get much focus. On that note, unlike Nightwing, there's really no clearly established storyline for where Tim goes after leaving the Robin identity. Not unless you're directly adapting the Batman Reborn-era *Red Robin* series, but that requires having the specific status quo of Bruce Wayne being "dead." If Bruce is still alive, then Red Robin is essentially just a less compelling version of Nightwing. Too much overlap for a compressed medium like film.
I don’t think Tim becoming something else would get focus in Brave and the bold, no (if anything his disposability could just be used to instill doubt in Damian about how little Bruce cares about his “sons”) but perhaps in the rumored Teen Titans movie, he could be your pov character as Dick brings him into the fold or maybe even gets the defunct Titans going again solely for Tim
>>if anything his disposability could just be used to instill doubt in Damian about how little Bruce cares about his “sons” What an awful way to portray Batman. Why would anyone want that? Smh
Maybe that’s just Damian’s perception and perhaps Tim’s, as Bruce isn’t always the best at expressing how much people mean to him, a potential arc for Bruce. Maybe after Jason he got even worse at that, not letting himself get attached, when in actuality he has the utmost confidence in Tim to go solo. Also you might wanna work on your manners and refrain from terms like smh when just spitballing ideas about comic book characters. If you’re going to be concerned with your beloved characters being portrayed “awfully” you may want to consider applying that to yourself as well. Food for thought!
Now that I can see
That’s fair. I apologize as that was rather rude of me.
Just merge Batman and Robin into one character
Absolutely not, just make them two separate characters, I don’t know why you guys want things like this
## no
Can we stop just taking Tim and making him into the other robins. Dcau already did this with a weird mesh of him and Jason
Hard Pass
Tim and Damian are probably the two hardest robins to merge so I hope not
No
What could Damain take from Tim, except being the Robin after Jason? They most likely will skip him alltogether. Maybe have him down the line as a cameo as Tim Drake only, no Robin.
I actually think introducing Damian in the context of the aftermath of Jason’s death is really fertile ground for storytelling.
Could? Sure. Should? Absolutely not.
I think they'll simply erase Jason and Tim and Damian will be the second Robin. Trying to include all of them will repeat the new 52s timeline issues.
Damian whole character is all about timeline issues Which a biological son, Bruce is gonna have to be old no matter what.
It's possible. The Animated Series rolled Jason Todd and Tim Drake into one.
I hope not, I'd rather keep the robins distinct from each other.
Hell no, I love damien and tim don't combine them
You could also merge steak and cake but it won’t taste good.
No.
As much i like Tim. I don’t see him fitting in Gunn’s verse unless they do a long term plan if assuming Damian actor grows up and take up the mantle when Bruce dies in a Tony Stark endgame scenario. I can see a massive change where Tim becomes Damian’s Robin as a reminder Batman should not fight alone.
I would absolutely despise this. Tim is the hope that Batman needs to pull him out of his grief over Jason Todd. Damian cannot be that hope, it's not fitting of the character. What they should have done is have Tim be the current Robin, have Jason be "dead" as of now in the DCU, and have Dick be Nightwing in Bludhaven (or have him as another Gotham hero if they want to remain concise and not have everyone spread out). Damian could be Tim's replacement, either because he's going off to high school or because he's taking up the role of Red Robin. There's ways to have the whole Batfamily in this universe that I desperately hope Gunn and Co. are taking into account.
Adaptation needs to serve the script , not the original narrative . If that made a good MOVIE Sure . People do seem to gloss over the fact that film and comic books are not the same and I believe truly as a fan of both , James Gunn’s DCU should not be like the MCU and instead hopefully try to make good films based on comic books , not comic book films .
Bruce in his 40s - Josh Hartnett Dick as Nightwing in his mid 20s - Timothee Chalamet Jason presumed dead in his 20s (introduces Red Hood in a sequel) - Jacob Elordi Tim in his teens as the current Robin - TBD Damian in his pre-teens (becomes Robin in a sequel) - TBD even though Bruce Wayne is at the center of the Bat Family, the audience POV is mainly from Dick Grayson's perspective through the DCU. this would distinguish it from The Batman, and Robert Pattinson's character development.
I mean yea. They could have Damian start out normal brat mode and end being more like tim. Lets be real Tims the most boring of the robins other than the chick from dark knight returns Hes not the first He doesnt die Hes not bruces kid Hes just the replacement for Jason.
I'm a fan of Tim drake I have to be honest I hate this comment. saying that Tim is a boring Robin and has nothing interesting compared to the others is literally the same thing people do with Superman! Tim has over 20 years of history but is it boring just because it can't be summarized in a short sentence? and it's also very easy to say that with one of the other Robins literally using his storys.
I really hope this doesn’t happen
That’s an option. Doesn’t solve that the Bat-Family in general is arguably too large to develop everyone believably in a series of 2-2.5 hour long movies. Do these movies start with Dick Grayson as Batman, then they reintroduce Bruce Wayne as Batman later in an outlandish way so we finally have our fully fantastical Batman movie franchise? How do we reconcile all the Batgirls as well. It’s more important that they maintain the mixed ethnicity of Damien than whether his characterization mixes him with Tim Drake.
i hope this post gets downvoted
Majority of DC fans will murder James Gunn for doing this. Because dc fans are very backward minded , they want movies to be exactly like comics , if there will be a slight difference then they will not go to theatres, watch online reviews and criticise the movie by watching those reviews. Such fans don't deserve to call themselves dc fan .
That's a terrible idea
I will never do anything remotely as funny as this reddit post. God damn