Goku logic: Let them live so they can be a better fight later.
Darth Vader logic: The BBEG thinks they can corrupt them into switching sides and rule the world together.
Secret weakness in the afterlife: The BBEG has some big weakness that would be discovered if the players die and their spirit gets sent to one of the outer planes. Like a weapon forged by angels, advice from a deceased minion, or a rival imprisoned in the Nine Hells that could be freed and help the party.
I’d like to tack on:
BBEG is sadistic and enjoys watching the players struggle only to find out they should have killed them from the start.
My BBEG is doing that right now while also running w/ a bit the Dart Vader style.
One of my BBEGs got comfortable with his ressurective immortality. He would contact them to gloat and wherever a PC died, he would personally drop them off with the party and tell them to take better care of his toys. He also bring the new characters to the party.
To him, they were walking talking toys. He would roughhouse with them occasionally until he couldn't anymore. And then they killed him.
- BBEG wants something from the PCs that they can't do / provide if they're dead. E.G. the BBEG thinks that the PCs can be tricked / bribed / blackmailed into doing something the BBEG would find troublesome.
- BBEG wants information that the PCs can provide but circumstances do not allow for immediate torture / bribery
- BBEG would totally kill all the PCs ans put their heads on pikes but BBEG has more pressing business right now
- BBEG is about to kill PCs when a third party intervenes ( Ancient dragon attacks / Massive earthquake / Infernal Patron requires immediate service / etc. )
Sometimes it can be a problem with means or opportunity too, not just motive
Palpatine logic: He is manipulating the players so that a rival of his, nearly equal in power. will be taken out. At some point, he will orchestrate his own "defeat" with heavy hints about a "larger threat" lurking in the shadows. In reality, BBEG simply fades into the shadows to wait as his new catspaws do his work for him, leaving him free to claim his rival's power for himself, at which point he will dispose of his now useless tools.
Could always use the Goku logic as a basis but change it around a bit to where the BBEG just gets bored. If he manages to win instead of letting them go so they can get stronger he just literally loses interest and doesn’t even see a point in wasting the energy to follow through with killing them.
It still hinges on that goku logic of wanting a challenge but takes it to a more arrogant direction. Can even have the BBEG taunt them by saying “Continuing this fight is an insult to me.”
Or time crunch: BBEG has somewhere else to be at the time and the party is purely an inconvenience at the moment. He’s content to disable them and get on with more important work.
What's the name for the logic where the BBEG is trying to stop a bigger threat, but is to weak, so he became the BBEG hoping that the heroes that rose up to stop him would be strong enough to stop the bigger threat once he was gone?
Possible reasons the party might be left alive:
* They're not worth his time. Once he's thrashed them enough, but before they've been TPKed, he scoffs, tells his lieutenants to finish cleaning up, he's got Terrible Plans to attend to elsewhere, that are better worth his time (this adds delicious insult to injury).
* He's impressed by their gumption. They would be better use converted to his cause. He imprisons them instead of killing them. If it's a corrupting fiend type BBEG, he may even let them go free, with the understanding that he can passively influence them as they continue along.
* Their embarrassment is better than their death. If the players are Heroes of the Realm, their defeat and disgrace could shake the resolve of the entire realm more than their martyrdom would have.
* The party still needs to serve a purpose. He leaves them alive so that they can send a message to the king (I'm coming for you). alt. He leaves them alive because The Prophecy Requires It.
>Their embarrassment is better than their death. If the players are Heroes of the Realm, their defeat and disgrace could shake the resolve of the entire realm more than their martyrdom would have.
Yo
That's wicked sick and I'm absolutely stealing it for Sunday
Absolutely love this one. The hero demands one of them surrender, to which they obviously respond. I would rather die.
The big bad tells them that, oh I'm not going to kill you, I'm going to destroy you. First, I'm going to spread word foreign wide that you tried, and failed. Then I'm going to punish the ones who sent you my way, just write everything you claim to protect, kill everyone you have saved, and undo all of the good you have done. And dying is not an option to stop me. Because if you die, I'll just finish off everyone you've ever loved and everyone you've ever helped and everyone who's ever helped you.
You see, You have insulted me. I was a weak enough to be stopped by the likes of you, and now you get to be an example of what will happen to anyone who resists me. So run. Shore up your defenses, hide the ones you love, let me show you the true debts of despair. When, despite your best efforts, everything you do ends in failure
- You may want to keep them alive and charmed as trophies.
- He might send them to a peer or his overlord as a gift.
- Might be saving them to use in a ritual when a certain astronomical event takes place.
So I'm picturing a bit of a Joker-esq villain manicly explaining it to a tied up Batman
"Who do you think pays for all this stuff Batsy?" "Me! Oh that's sweet, but no" "I could never afford this on a meagre 9 to 5. No."
"You see I have friends in lots of places, mobsters, smugglers, politicians, bureaucrats, and they all need my protection. And they're all willing to pay me handsomely for it."
"And you know why they pay me. That's really the best part." "You. They pay me because of you." "You, Bats, with all your vigilantism. With your snooping. With your justice." "You made all this possible."
"Every time the commissioner shines that beacon, every time they see you brooding on the corner of a building, every time they hear the flapping of a bat." "Better call Joker, make sure my payment plan is still fine."
"You're an influencer Bats, the biggest billboard i could wish for, you're practically my PR guy... Pro-bono." "Mwahawahawhamwaha"
Oh that is delicious
What if the villan works in a secret society, and its the hero's pushback against their plans that makes them more radical, more willing to enable the villan's more extreme measures
I think if your big bad's going to leave them alive, don't have him fight them. The PCs aren't there for the bad guy to brag about.
Havem show up just as he negligently toasts something the PCs know could own them. Then he can notice them and say, "Oh, hey guys, I didn't see you come in. Look, I like smashing do-gooders just as much as the next evil overlord, but I've really gotta see a man about a throne. The populace doesn't bend to my will on its own. Here, have fun with my kid brothers while I'm gone, I'm sick of babysitting." He walks out through the wall as a few boss level monsters come running up to play.
I would definitely lean towards this, the only reason to have combat stats ready is if your PCs really try to force a fight. My plan for when I do this is to have the BBEG respond with a high level hold person spell with a huge DC. He then casually strolls away. I also I will tell my PCs (mostly because they are brand new to DnD) that they will straight up die if they try to take this guy on.
Have him receive a sending stone from one of his minions that calls him to more important matters. Have him scoff at the hero's and point to another creature under his rule and say "you deal with these... "hero's" my attention is needed for matters much greater than this wimpy show of force" and leave allowing your party to rally and escape the much lessor foes.
This is by far one of the better options, and feels far less like the BBEG is taking a turn holding [the Idiot Ball](https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/IdiotBall).
BBEG is attention starved and wants their efforts to be recognized.
They are cocky and know they can defeat the heroes.
They are curious to see what the heroes are capable of so that they can use it against them later.
They want to convince one of the heroes to join their side but must break their spirit first.
They get called away for something else and must leave immediately.
They have a fear of death, so if they start to lose, they panic and run.
They are making an example out of the heroes as a warning for anyone who tries to get in their way. Next time, they won't be so merciful.
They are too focused on stealing a magic item from the characters, so they let them live but take a magic item for their evil plan.
They want someone to live on and tell their story and who better than a group of failed heroes who they could obviously destroy if they wanted to.
When they rule the world, they don't just want thralls. They want a loyal, powerful army, and they see the heroes being a part of it. By choice or force, it will be.
The heroes are the closest thing to equals they have encountered, and so they don't want to lose that dynamic. It keeps things interesting for them. Like a well balanced game of chess.
Maybe they actually do want to be stopped. Deep down they realize they've gone too far and don't truly want what they're pursuing. They just wanted to prove they could do it. However, stopping on their own is not an option.
They need something from the heroes that only they can get, but it's not time to collect...not just yet.
They have a familiar bond with one of the heroes that prevents them, either by feelings or code, from killing them.
The reason my BBEG will let the party live is that she is a forgotten goddess who secretly gains power directly from those who know and remember her (especially those who worship her). She was very recently released from her prison, forgotten in the new world. But since the PCs are pretty much the only people who currently remember her she needs to keep them alive in the moment to spread their knowledge of her.
The party comes to, beat up but alive. Each one finds that their hands have been branded with an arcane symbol -- the purpose of which is unknown.
See how your players address that and go from there.
I strongly advise to never make the bad guy choose to spare your heroes. Always make it so that the bbeg wants to kill them but sometimes thing else stops them. Either a gentlemen's agreement with something else or a cave in that gives the heros time to escape.
I say this because it is very hard to leave a session without your players hating you. It will feel like you were flexing your "super cool bad guy self insert" It will also lessen the effect of how dangerous your bbeg is. Players wont respect them or how dangerous you wish them to be.
I usually go with "self interest." The villain has them by the short hairs, so they can say "do X or die." Now the heroes a) have to do the bad guy's dirty work, which saves the bad guy doing it himself: and b) now risk being tainted by association. If the PCs' friends find out, will they ever be trusted again? It sets up an interesting series of meaningful choices, which is always my goal as a GM.
my bbeg at current state would not trust the pcs to do just about anything for them. if the final punishment is death either way, i dont see why the PCs would bother.
I guess that's fair. My players know my games are potentially lethal, so a "do X or die" choice is an accepted possibility, and one where they might choose death. And, as you say, you have to be willing to follow through.
The BBEG's lieutenant / advisor / warlock convinces the BBEG to spare them. The advisor wants to use them for his own devices, possibly to have them send a message to the innocent townspeople / kingdom / whoever the good guys are that BBEG is coming for them next. BBEG acquiesces since this PC party was barely worth his time anyway.
Little does BBEG know, the advisor is more of a Starscream kind of advisor - he wants to take out the BBEG himself so he can be the new BBEG and wants to help the PC party defeat the BBEG by giving away his weaknesses, secrets, maps to his lair, etc.
The BBEG is manipulating the party into helping their overall goal, and they're more useful alive than dead, all the way up until the party can actually fight the BBEG properly?
"Oh, hi, Ma! Happy - Counterspell - birthday! What, you didn't like the pet dragon? Shit - I forgot *Fireball you sonova* sorry, Ma! Ok, well, I'll take it back to Evil Petsmart and see if they'll take a trade for platinum, because gold dragon turns your skin - forcecage you stinking... - hold on a minute Ma, I'm real sorry"
"Alright, Time Stop! Guys, this has been great, but I'm on the phone with Evil Ma, and I'd be a crummy Evil Son if I gave you more attention to her on her B-Day, amiright?"
"...alright, Ma, just lemme get a quick prestidigitation and fire up my gate. We'll go to that barbecue joint in the Abyss you like. No reservation needed for your boy, I know the owner..."
*Clap clap* all light vanishes, not even darkvision works, as their "nemesis" saunters out, loosening his tie to change for his dinner plans.
You control the battlefield, have the BBEG yeet them off a cliff or something when they're defeated.
They just happen to survive the landing. This can be either due to what they land in or in or who's around when they hit the bottom.
My first thought was similar: battle happens on upper floor of a castle, bbeg’s spell is so powerful the floor breaks out below them and they fall out of his sight and have a couple of turns to run for it.
Important question: if the players are so far beneath the BBEG that he won't bother to kill them, then why is he even fighting them in the first place? The players will pick up on this, either consciously or subconsciously, and it will make the villain feel both less interesting and less threatening.
No, the reason the villain doesn't impact the final blow in the fight should be because of something else that happens that draws the villains attention away.
Perhaps one of his great war beasts went out of control temporarily, and he has to take a few moments to wrangle it, giving the PCs an opportunity to run off and hide among some rubble.
Maybe someone that's an actual threat shows up, and he has to turn and fight them (winning, of course, but only after a couple rounds of back and forth. This will also serve to give the PCs a healthy respect for his power, especially if it's a character the PCs have already met and knows is more powerful than them).
Or he might receive a missive from one of his lieutenants that one of their objectives has been completed, and they are awaiting further orders, so he leaves to direct his army.
Anyways, my point is: the BBEG can't just *say* "killing you isn't worth my time," because generally, it makes no sense for him to say. Instead, you need to *show* that he doesn't consider the players worth his time, by having something that's more important than them (which can be basically anything, as long as it's not silly) come up mid-fight.
i agree.
currently im leaning towards the: "your actions make my benefactors push for radical actions (see: \*my\* radical actions). keeping you alive both amuses me and accelerates my schedule for domination, otherwise, my benefactors will be reluctant to do this or that, because they are a pansy bunch that only respond to fear"
They don't get their hands dirty/the party isn't worth their time.
Everytime the party fights the BBEG before the final battle, the BBEG isn't actually fighting, they are generally directing their minions and the flavor of the week or casting buffs on them.
By the time the party is done with the appetizers, they've already left.
I had this issue too because I want a big boss right at the end despite other encounters with the big bad, so I established that both the players and the big bad had each learned of a different prophecy.
Basically one prophecy stated that only the players could potentially stop her. Of course it was stated more mysteriously and linked to the event that brought all the players together.
For the big bad, an ancient goddess of hate and bloodshed, she learned that she would only succeed on her evil plans if she slaughtered "her greatest opposers" on the day of slaughter, which is the day everything aligns for her to open portals from Acheron where she resides and unleash endless battle and bloodshed across the realm. So her avatar and minions can fuck with the party she knows they can't be killed until a certain day.
I kind of was inspired by Fullmetal alchemist for this, if you haven't seen it, the protagonist has a moment where the main enemies have the perfect opportunity to kill him but actually save his life, stating the time is not right for his death. Always thought this was a mysterious and cool moment.
They later find out that the big ritual requires the heroes of the story to be present for it to work so while they can get beaten down they can't be killed, and they use this to their advantage.
If they have a way to revive one player going down (ex: scroll of revivify or the spell itself), let the big bad kill one of them, then do a little monologue with him close to something like that :
"Let this death be a warning. Stand against me and my plans again and you will suffer the same fate as your friend here."
Then he teleports away.
Now he's not only the big bad guys that's evil in the region, he will be hated by your PCs and there will be the question of revenge when they inevitably challenge him again.
Beh, don't worry if they've got it. Just snuff their cleric and their new quest can be finding somebody to cast before he starts to turn. Meanwhile, the cleric's walking the Serpent Road to get to King Kai.
I mean a smart villain would kill the opposition that made it all the way to his lair unless there was some in canon reason why a new more powerful party might step up (some life essences, chosen one bullshit).
A truly malevolent BBEG might want to ensure the party is around to watch them lose everything, their family, their world blah blah blah, that whole bit. But if the party is the first one that's gotten to his door step, that probably means they're his current biggest threat to his power, so not killing or crippling them is a hard sell
One thing you could do I haven't seen mentioned is the BBEG does actually kill the heroes but some other entity or being intervenes and brings them back to stop the BBEG.
Honestly I think this would be intresting.
You know the quote "you die as a hero where you live long enough to see yourself become a villain"
Go with that, a villain that started out with good intentions that started out as a good person that slowly turned to more and more questionable means to better what was around him until he realized maybe it wasn't worth it. Maybe x group didn't really deserve it or were corrupt. So he turned into the force that MADE them better.
A happy smile from a dying man and the realization that he was willing to pay the price for a better world is a beautiful thing if you can pull it off.
Because what fun is there in taking over/destroying something if there is no one there to try to stop it? Why kill the party, one of the only groups that has managed to even come near the BBEG, when it is going to be so much fun to see them try again later and squirm when they realize the stakes?
There are good and bad reasons for a BBEG to leave their enemies alive.
* Bad
* Variations on "I just don't feel like". E.g. "you're not worth it". This is really transparently bad writing. BBEG just spent a minute fighting you, but a single spell or slash from their sword to kill you is now "not worth it"? It doesn't make sense internally. It also wastes time in that the players are really playing a cutscene where their actions don't matter.
* Because your BBEG doesn't have organic goals or motivations and you just want to show off their statblock.
* Good
* It either adversely affects their goals to kill the PCs or does not further their goals.
* They hope to recruit/corrupt the PCs.
* The PCs possess some desired trait that would be lost if they died. E.g. a prophecy that requires them alive, a curse/boon that ends on their death, etc.
* Part of their plan requires manipulating the party into taking a course of action that they don't realize furthers the BBEG goal.
* The party being injured but not dead leads to some crucial information the BBEG is seeking. E.g. they will recuperate in a secret stronghold, and taking a physical token from the party will allow the BBEG to scry on its location.
* The BBEG would normally kill the party gladly, but the particular location/circumstance would draw the attention of something they are avoiding in a way that merely beating them unconscious would not. E.g. a plane where death would attract the attention of a local deity. E.g. A magical location where swarms of shadows would overrun the area to feed on the dead.
* The BBEG needs to kill them in a specific manner according to a prophecy/ritual, and the circumstances do not match up.
* They have some sort of moral code about who they will kill, and the party currently is not part of it.
* The BBEG cannot kill on certain holy days.
* The BBEG is indebted to the party for some reason, such as the party sparing a minion, and they are obsessed with debts.
* A prophecy prohibits them from directly taking a life X days before a ritual.
* The party was accidentally engaged in a manner the BBEG finds dishonorable and will kill them on even footing later.
Someone posted this resource a few weeks ago, and I just happened to find I still had the tab open on my phone today!
[here's 100 reasons ](https://www.dndspeak.com/2022/02/06/100-plausible-reasons-that-the-villain-doesnt-kill-the-heroes-when-they-have-the-chance/)
One I've always wanted to do was an inquisitor for the evil empire: he secretly *wants* the empire to fall, but knows he can't do it for whatever reason (perhaps his name is already marred, or the BBEG has leverage over him). He *wants* the party to grow strong enough to kill him and overthrow the empire, so he spares them and takes something they value (hostages... limbs... take your pick) to ensure they come after him again.
"Even a coward can die for a cause. It takes courage to live for one."
BBEG doesn't want to kill them, he wants to break them. In death, they will be martyrs and their legacy will inspire other heroes to rise in their wake, but if he breaks them and any will to keep fighting, all those who look to these heroes for safety, for hope, they break too.
Ya, that works. Honestly, one of my favourite bad guy tropes, though, is the cordial villain. The one who chats with them happily and will just shoot the shit while he “spars” with them. They’re fighting for their lives but he’s just having a nice chat while he gets in his daily practice. They never stood a chance and he won’t kill them afterward. Why would he? He so enjoys these little distractions.
>The bbeg has polymorphed an entire town into obedient rabid humanoid-on-all-fours monstrosities, and wagers with the party
Seems like the reason right here. Can't collect on the bet if they're dead. In fact, them fighting him probably just makes him increase the stakes.
Sure, but if they lose, why kill them when he can make them into monstrosities as well, or force them to go find him more folks to change, or help with whatever larger scheme he's got going on?
very good questions.
perhaps he doesnt consider it self sabotage to let them go for his amusement, as it entertains him, and they further his goals by making his "benefactors" push for more extreme measures (see: his measures), by disrupting their non-essential plans?
Some context would help greatly because otherwise, no they’d just wipe out the party wholesale.
Without any details, this makes me think of the movie Constantine with Keanu Reeves where spoiler alert: they need to reawaken Rachel Wiesz’s psychic abilities before she can be used as a vessel/sacrifice for Mammon/Lucifer’s son.
I mean, maybe the BBE GIs just a genuine sadest. Who wants to keep the party alive to torture them slowly doing damage but giving them like a month or more in game before they would actually be killed.
He could curse them or force them into a deal in which he needs adventurers to do a task he couldn't do lowmey himself.
Maybe they are cursed until the retrieve another adventurers special magic item, so now they're on a morally ambiguous quest. Maybe they could follow their squad until they camp and take it in their sleep. Maybe get them drunk and steal it. Maybe straight up fight them.
That way the defeat still carries weight and consequences without them feeling like they got off scott free because nothing actually matters
My BBEG is grooming my players without their knowledge. She will hold them as a private adventuring band, or a trophy, at the end of the campaign. Or they will kill her. But she is orchestrating every big fight they've gotten into.
A classic is to have the party be the only survivors of a larger group. The BBEG needs messengers to spread the word of how unbeatable they are. If you're ruling through fear you need to maintain your reputation and word doesn't spread as well if everyone dies.
Another reason could be: “It’s not enough for me to kill you, I can do that at anytime, rather I want to break your spirits. When the reality of your own inferiority has finally settled into your feeble little minds and despair overtakes you, only then will I consider putting you out of your misery and only if the mood strikes me.” It is arrogant and cocky to the core while making it the fatal flaw that will inevitably lead to his downfall.
Exactly, gives the players the chance to hit him with the “Who’s inferior now?” line, as he indignantly complains about how “this can’t be happening”. It’s always satisfying to knock down a smug a-hole with a superiority complex 😈
My BBEG needs the hero to do their "hero" things. He does leave them alive. He NEEDS them alive. The BBEG plan is for those PCs to start a rebellion against the lukewarm dying empire. The chaos that the PCs are making while fighting. IS the BBEG goal. This is not generally applicable but it's a great reason for the BBEG leaving the heroes alive.
How about this, BBEG underestimates them and thinks they died. Walks away and says some Elden Ring line like “Lowly Tarnished... Thou'rt unfit even to graft...”
1. You are merely pests , I can’t be bothered
2. I want to toy with you, it’s my entertainment
3. You are useful for now for a temporary goal
4. You are in my way and I’m in a hurry
5. It’s too much work to kill you and deal with the fallout
6. I actually am impressed by your skills and want to recruit you
Maybe he's very propaganda-minded and finds it more useful to lock them up, have a sham trial, and then a public execution. It turns his believers against heroes like you, and it scares his enemies into compliance.
Or maybe the battle is in a very public space, and to be seen killing someone in cold blood like that would be detrimental to the persona he's trying to depict. So he'll kill them later when no one is watching.
Or much simpler one - there's a time constraint on the battle for him, and he NEEDS to leave/escape at a certain point and is not able to deal the killing blow. To avoid this being a railroaded deus ex, apply this same time constraint to the heroes if they are winning but can't do it in time.
Edit: just thought of a good one - at the last moment, his second in command betrays and kills him to take power, and in the confusion the PCs escape. Gets them out alive, but now they have a new, potentially more deadly BBEG to deal with.
The logic I would use, depending on the level the party is at, is that they’re so far beneath the BBEG that they’re not even worth his time or effort to deal with.
I.E. they have to deal with his minions until they take down something like his second in command, at which point he finally decides “fine, I’ll swat these flies off myself since no one else is competent enough to deal with them.
The BBEG learns enough about the party's motivations and weaknesses to manipulate them into unwittingly advancing his agenda. Maybe that's a more expedient means of accomplishing his goals than what he had initially planned.
The party might not be strong enough to stop the BBEG, but they might be strong enough to derail the plans of someone else who's actually a threat to the BBEG.
All it takes is the right set of lies, half-truths, and omissions to set them on a collision course with a person or group who could actually be a thorn in the BBEG's side. Regardless of whether the PCs ruin the plans of this third party or get killed by them, the BBEG still comes out ahead.
Two birds, one stone.
My two cents: if you don't want your party to kill something, don't put it in front of them. If they come up with something crazy and have a chance of beating him, you'll have two options. Replace him or pull something out of your butt and let him escape. The first option means your bbeg is gone and you have to figure out something new, which is a bummer. If you fudge to let him escape, your players will feel really cheated.
My solution for this problem, which I'm currently facing: Use a simulacrum. Make the simulacrum extremely tough, and then the party finds out that that was just a created copy, and the real one is MUCH more powerful.
Bbeg wins.
Three of 4 rolling deaths saves. The 4th fully dead.
Bbeg walks over to the cleric of the party's struggling body and casts cure wounds.
"You are not worth my time, go heal your comrades and remember this."
Then walks away. Be sure their is a heavy consequence if the cleric fights him. Real death.
If they can't revivify 4th might be fully dead permanently but sets the stakes
I mean.
He might just leave them for dead.
Roll for death saving throws and you are good. If they survive they wake up after 1d4 hours.
To note, usually characters are unable to understand if a creature is dead or not unless they inspect it and make a medicine check, some undead can because they have the appropriate trait.
The party is actually a part of their grand plan. The BBEG is manipulating the party through a third party. Or is planning on pinning their crimes on the parry or a member of it.
You ever seen a movie?
Like ... every movie, the BBEG captures the heroes, reveals his plan/lair, and then tries to \[enslave, torture, kill, seduce, duel, impress, persuade, convert, intimidate, sell, cook, blackmail, etc\] them.
More important - you should ALWAYS have a motive like that for EVERY encounter. If the stakes are always "kill or be killed" the fights get pretty boring. Annnd, you'll always have Players who fight to the death even when surrounded by 20 goons with xbows aimed at their faces. Because they have been taught it's kill or die.
If, instead, you run combat like a movie or book, and you focus on the mental/social game as much (or more than) the physical one, the players will be trained to try different methods of resolving the fight (retreat, seduction, surrender, intimidation, negotiation, persuasion, charm, etc). Like a comic book, they could clash swords, then lean forward against the enemy and snarl a humiliating secret that throws the baddie off their game. Or the PC takes big damage one round and seeing their HP is low, they fall to the ground and say, "OK, ok, enough.. What do you want in the Neverwood Forest?"
Don't worry about TPKing the party. Just narrate that, on the last hit, they go out. Thennn, they wake up sitting at a giant, elegant table, with a feast before them, and an attractive person at the other end, smiling charmingly, saying, "eat up, you'll need your strength."
The setting so far has been very bdz esque
The bbg has polymorphed an entire town into obedient rabid humanoid-on-all-fours monstrosities, and wagers with the party
Incapacitate him, and they will relinquish a quarter of the citizens of the town.
Could be that they want to corrupt the party to serve them as worthy fighters.
Or maybe they honestly believe that the reason they're doing all the BBEG stuff is because there's something much worse coming and it's just self-serving politicians who can't see what's coming, so they want the party to help them rather than fight them.
In their first face meeting, my BBEG outright told our the Warforged PC that he has future plans for him, and then that he knows/knew the cleric's forgotten mother. He also mentioned the Ranger PC, but only by trash talking their Dragon Rider lineage.
My BBEG is an all powerful Wizard and while my party hasn’t encountered him yet, I’ve got a plan in mind for once they do.
I want this wizard to treat them like a pesky fly. He does not have time to peddle their heroic fantasies and give them a proper fight, he is busy doing evil Wizard stuff. So instead he banishes them all back in time to a prehistoric era. That way I can have an arc involving dinosaurs and getting back to the future, and the party knows that this guy does not fuck around.
BBEG isn't really a BBEG, the party is being manipulated by the faction that wants to destroy it for whatever reason. BBEG defeats the party and presents them with evidence that they're being used.
Doesn't care enough.
Does this regularly, like tell them ahead of time or afterwards this is a regular thing. He just does not take the time to double tap.
Im my campaign the BBEG BELIEVES with all his heart that what he is doing is good. And he hopes that these heroes will come around and join him and his cause, that each time he sends someone after them it is to make them stronger so that eventually they will join him.
The way my BBEG is thinking is "the party has things I want, but they have to give them to me volountarily" (all my players have different kinds of mcguffins that the bbeg needs for their final plan)
Probably mentioned, but too tired to read through them all:
Depending on the level they meet the BBEG at...its not worth the effort to kill them. They are so beneath the BBEG's time and effort and are squashed so easily that the BBEG literally does not care enough to kill them. The party is a momentary amusement, a test, a diversion, a unique pop up in his day that caught is attention for the moment, but now that the "threat" has been realized and neutralized...its actually a disappointment.
The BBEG: I was hoping for a challenge, and all that arrived was this? You managed to make me take notice of your attempts to interfere with my plans, and this is what is causing the ruckus? A ragtag group of ill-equiped, ill-informed adventurers. How...droll. This is the best that could be mustered against me. I am...honestly, flabbergasted. And insulted. I was expecting...more. and this is what I get.
Although...I suppose your efforts should be...acknowledged, meager as they were. No, no...I will not kill you. The effort and expenditure on my part to do so is not worth the instant gratification that I would momentarily gain. You are not worthy of death by my hands. For making one such as myself take notice of your paltry attempts at heroism, I grant you your pathetic lives, such as they may be. You will live, if only to bear witness to the failure that your endeavor was.
The people of this town are MINE. Begone from here. *mass teleport the party away, to a place of DM's choosing*
>Edit : The setting so far has been very goku esque
They fade to black, and the next time they meet the bbeg: "Hm, I thought I already killed you all."
I’d go with the BBEG gets off on the mental torment of leaving the party alive. Every evil he commits after their encounter eats away at them, knowing that if they were strong enough, they would have prevented these atrocities.
The bbegs tend to leave the heros alive in my game for one of a few reasons. They are busy, the heros are making the world a better place for everyone anyway, heros are test subjects or unwitting allies to the bbeg, or even the gods have rules. One game the bbeg is using the heros to defeat a mutual enemy. Might as well team up with the lesser of two evils. Who would you rather have to deal with. The monster that picks you off or the monster that wanton slaughters you? Another game, the world is run by a collection of gods who turn people into reality TV shows and content creators to keep the head god busy.
Maybe one of them is somehow related to him or her. They are an unknown brother or sister. They want contact but have decided that corrupting them is the best route. By beating them but leaving them alive, people lose faith in them as heroes and push them away.
They could have a plan which they need this group for, by targeting them even in defeat he or she raises their prominence in society. Ultimately, he or she can use that to draw out a specific target, be it a person or item whexh they intend to kill or steal.
Finally, maybe he or she wishes to absolutely destroy them by physically beating them numerous times. Then by discrediting them and maybe even ultimately turning the tables on them and making everyone view them as the bad guys.
The BBEG is aware of a prophecy or set up some series of events that the heroes must do themselves in order to further their aims. I can imagine a temple that is protected by a powerful entity that bars the BBEG from entry. They trick the heroes into going into the temple to recover some artifact, thinling they need it to defeat them or something. Then BBEG comes for them.
Honestly sometimes it’s just pride. They’re insignificant. A waste of his power. They don’t deserve the satisfaction of dying as heroes, but living as failures. It motivates them to live as heroes.
How about just "I am not a murderer. You are only opposing me because you don't understand the full situation. But I will defend myself, as I have proven today."
Something I did with my party is have the BBEG not even recognize the party as enough of a threat to finish them off. The rules for dying are designed assuming you want there to be an actual chance at death in the situation; however if you don't want them to die, you can ignore the rules and have the party just unconscious. Maybe the BBEG thought the party was going to bleed out, but there's been a Druid tracking the BBEG hoping to find a way to beat him that comes by and stabilizes the party after the BBEG leaves, and they become an ally that helps out a little, but not in combat.
BBEG is a secret relative of the players, yet uncovered, and does not want to kill family?
BBEG is secretly in love with one of the players but is not ready to reveal that feeling?
BBEG needs some sparring partners, so keeps them around to play with them. While they secretly strive for power, they are disappointed as soon as someone gives in, so they are looking for amusement.
BBEG needs some free-of-will henchmen, and by displaying their power and offering rewards after the defeat, they try to hire the players over to their side. If the players stall, they survive to fight another fight.
It's 3 parts for my BBEG.
1. Might makes right. She wants a challenge, and the party is that challenge so she lets them run about so they can get strong.
2. She's immortal. She's a death knight, and as far as she knows, and as far as the party knows, they can't kill her permanently.
3. She's imprisoned. She is in a magical prison and cannot escape until a certain point. Her minions work towards freeing her rather than killing the party.
This works for me because it allows the party to do what they want in the short term (chase down foes from their backstory, etc.) while not having to worry about the BBEG as a number 1 priority. My campaign is very sandbox-esque so it flows a lot better to have her just be a piece in the background that looms over the party knowing they'll eventually have to face her when the time comes, but in the meantime can handle their personal problems.
Could also be: BBEG puts on terrifying show of force, decided they’re not worth it, or boring, or he has something time sensitive going. So he leaves because f that he has things to do. (This happened to my party in a campaign we are about to end. We broke his lab, killed his science experiment and sent him fleeing to another plane far away from us to pick up the pieces. That was winning bc we needed his experiment gone, and fighting him was a bonus. He nearly died and for a lich that strong? We did a good job.)
One of my BBEG was a devil that went around killing people's loved ones to rile them up so they would train and become strong enough to kill his own boss. Also the BBEG could have a curse of immortality and be doing evil shit just so someone would finally manage to give him rest.
The heroes are part of a prophecy that the BBEG wants to see to fruition.
The BBEG wants to capture and interrogate the heroes for information.
The BBEG keeps the heroes alive so that they can warp them into monstrosities like the townspeople were.
He might to steal something from them?
"No need to kill, guards might check up on murders, a highway robbery is a annoying, but not something for a city/barony/principality/kingdom/Empire to pull the stops for it as murders are."
It could be really funny if they have a small piece of something which they have never really investigated but kept, maybe a part of a sword which was used for something else but an artistic Smith incorporated into the Blum of the Sword?
Might be late to the party, but if the bbeg has never been witnessed by the party killing someone, then it could be a fun twist, if he cannot kill anyone himself (a curse or something maybe) which then also works as a hidden weakness.
The BBEG orders them to be made into slaves to serve as an example to anyone who may oppose them. Complete with Collars of Antimagic Field forced around their necks.
"That prophecy that says you're the chosen ones who will defeat me? The prophecy that made everyone rally to you like the one, solitary flame in the darkness? Yeah, I wrote that prophecy. It's all bullshit, but so long as the people of the kingdom believe it, none of them will rise up. They're waiting for you to achieve the impossible rather than trying for themselves... Now... YOU guys are familiar to me, harmless, incompetent and easily countered. I can deal with you comfortably and without inconvenience. You aren't so much a thorn in my side as you are a grain of sand in my shoe. I would prefer not to have to deal with unknown mystery actors who rise up from the masses. Who knows, maybe one of them has what it takes to take me down? But so long as they believe that ONLY you guys can succeed? Not one of them will step forward. And that, dear puppet, is exactly how I like it."
-Chuban, forced fulfiller of prophecy.
I have a take: BBEG isn't actually the real bad guy, and unfortunately YOU have been working for the bigger, badder guy, and you just haven't worked it out yet.
But you'll work that out.
If you want to, that is.
Next time, you'll either join them, or be killed.
Goku logic: Let them live so they can be a better fight later. Darth Vader logic: The BBEG thinks they can corrupt them into switching sides and rule the world together. Secret weakness in the afterlife: The BBEG has some big weakness that would be discovered if the players die and their spirit gets sent to one of the outer planes. Like a weapon forged by angels, advice from a deceased minion, or a rival imprisoned in the Nine Hells that could be freed and help the party.
I’d like to tack on: BBEG is sadistic and enjoys watching the players struggle only to find out they should have killed them from the start. My BBEG is doing that right now while also running w/ a bit the Dart Vader style.
One of my BBEGs got comfortable with his ressurective immortality. He would contact them to gloat and wherever a PC died, he would personally drop them off with the party and tell them to take better care of his toys. He also bring the new characters to the party. To him, they were walking talking toys. He would roughhouse with them occasionally until he couldn't anymore. And then they killed him.
This ☝️ is twisted. I like it!
- BBEG wants something from the PCs that they can't do / provide if they're dead. E.G. the BBEG thinks that the PCs can be tricked / bribed / blackmailed into doing something the BBEG would find troublesome. - BBEG wants information that the PCs can provide but circumstances do not allow for immediate torture / bribery - BBEG would totally kill all the PCs ans put their heads on pikes but BBEG has more pressing business right now - BBEG is about to kill PCs when a third party intervenes ( Ancient dragon attacks / Massive earthquake / Infernal Patron requires immediate service / etc. ) Sometimes it can be a problem with means or opportunity too, not just motive
Joker logic: they want to prove that they can break the party
Palpatine logic: He is manipulating the players so that a rival of his, nearly equal in power. will be taken out. At some point, he will orchestrate his own "defeat" with heavy hints about a "larger threat" lurking in the shadows. In reality, BBEG simply fades into the shadows to wait as his new catspaws do his work for him, leaving him free to claim his rival's power for himself, at which point he will dispose of his now useless tools.
I THINK WHAT I WROTE KINDA BORDERS ON GOKU LOGIC BUT YEAH PREE MUCH
I mean there's no need to shout
I think in caps lock. Its too loud sometimes.
Just give the party a senzu
Lol too relatable.
That doesn't mean you have to type in caps-lock.
#I AGREE
Could always use the Goku logic as a basis but change it around a bit to where the BBEG just gets bored. If he manages to win instead of letting them go so they can get stronger he just literally loses interest and doesn’t even see a point in wasting the energy to follow through with killing them. It still hinges on that goku logic of wanting a challenge but takes it to a more arrogant direction. Can even have the BBEG taunt them by saying “Continuing this fight is an insult to me.”
Or time crunch: BBEG has somewhere else to be at the time and the party is purely an inconvenience at the moment. He’s content to disable them and get on with more important work.
What's the name for the logic where the BBEG is trying to stop a bigger threat, but is to weak, so he became the BBEG hoping that the heroes that rose up to stop him would be strong enough to stop the bigger threat once he was gone?
I''ve got a fun one: The BBEG made a bet with one of his lieutenant that he could spend a whole day without killing anybody.
This made me crack a smile
Possible reasons the party might be left alive: * They're not worth his time. Once he's thrashed them enough, but before they've been TPKed, he scoffs, tells his lieutenants to finish cleaning up, he's got Terrible Plans to attend to elsewhere, that are better worth his time (this adds delicious insult to injury). * He's impressed by their gumption. They would be better use converted to his cause. He imprisons them instead of killing them. If it's a corrupting fiend type BBEG, he may even let them go free, with the understanding that he can passively influence them as they continue along. * Their embarrassment is better than their death. If the players are Heroes of the Realm, their defeat and disgrace could shake the resolve of the entire realm more than their martyrdom would have. * The party still needs to serve a purpose. He leaves them alive so that they can send a message to the king (I'm coming for you). alt. He leaves them alive because The Prophecy Requires It.
>Their embarrassment is better than their death. If the players are Heroes of the Realm, their defeat and disgrace could shake the resolve of the entire realm more than their martyrdom would have. Yo That's wicked sick and I'm absolutely stealing it for Sunday
Absolutely love this one. The hero demands one of them surrender, to which they obviously respond. I would rather die. The big bad tells them that, oh I'm not going to kill you, I'm going to destroy you. First, I'm going to spread word foreign wide that you tried, and failed. Then I'm going to punish the ones who sent you my way, just write everything you claim to protect, kill everyone you have saved, and undo all of the good you have done. And dying is not an option to stop me. Because if you die, I'll just finish off everyone you've ever loved and everyone you've ever helped and everyone who's ever helped you. You see, You have insulted me. I was a weak enough to be stopped by the likes of you, and now you get to be an example of what will happen to anyone who resists me. So run. Shore up your defenses, hide the ones you love, let me show you the true debts of despair. When, despite your best efforts, everything you do ends in failure
- You may want to keep them alive and charmed as trophies. - He might send them to a peer or his overlord as a gift. - Might be saving them to use in a ritual when a certain astronomical event takes place.
So I'm picturing a bit of a Joker-esq villain manicly explaining it to a tied up Batman "Who do you think pays for all this stuff Batsy?" "Me! Oh that's sweet, but no" "I could never afford this on a meagre 9 to 5. No." "You see I have friends in lots of places, mobsters, smugglers, politicians, bureaucrats, and they all need my protection. And they're all willing to pay me handsomely for it." "And you know why they pay me. That's really the best part." "You. They pay me because of you." "You, Bats, with all your vigilantism. With your snooping. With your justice." "You made all this possible." "Every time the commissioner shines that beacon, every time they see you brooding on the corner of a building, every time they hear the flapping of a bat." "Better call Joker, make sure my payment plan is still fine." "You're an influencer Bats, the biggest billboard i could wish for, you're practically my PR guy... Pro-bono." "Mwahawahawhamwaha"
Oh that is delicious What if the villan works in a secret society, and its the hero's pushback against their plans that makes them more radical, more willing to enable the villan's more extreme measures
Now we're talking Legion of Doom and I'm here for it.
I think if your big bad's going to leave them alive, don't have him fight them. The PCs aren't there for the bad guy to brag about. Havem show up just as he negligently toasts something the PCs know could own them. Then he can notice them and say, "Oh, hey guys, I didn't see you come in. Look, I like smashing do-gooders just as much as the next evil overlord, but I've really gotta see a man about a throne. The populace doesn't bend to my will on its own. Here, have fun with my kid brothers while I'm gone, I'm sick of babysitting." He walks out through the wall as a few boss level monsters come running up to play.
I would definitely lean towards this, the only reason to have combat stats ready is if your PCs really try to force a fight. My plan for when I do this is to have the BBEG respond with a high level hold person spell with a huge DC. He then casually strolls away. I also I will tell my PCs (mostly because they are brand new to DnD) that they will straight up die if they try to take this guy on.
Have him receive a sending stone from one of his minions that calls him to more important matters. Have him scoff at the hero's and point to another creature under his rule and say "you deal with these... "hero's" my attention is needed for matters much greater than this wimpy show of force" and leave allowing your party to rally and escape the much lessor foes.
This is by far one of the better options, and feels far less like the BBEG is taking a turn holding [the Idiot Ball](https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/IdiotBall).
If killing the party incurs risks, the risk/reward may still be too much to justify it. Like, if it brings too much attention now.
BBEG is attention starved and wants their efforts to be recognized. They are cocky and know they can defeat the heroes. They are curious to see what the heroes are capable of so that they can use it against them later. They want to convince one of the heroes to join their side but must break their spirit first. They get called away for something else and must leave immediately. They have a fear of death, so if they start to lose, they panic and run. They are making an example out of the heroes as a warning for anyone who tries to get in their way. Next time, they won't be so merciful. They are too focused on stealing a magic item from the characters, so they let them live but take a magic item for their evil plan. They want someone to live on and tell their story and who better than a group of failed heroes who they could obviously destroy if they wanted to. When they rule the world, they don't just want thralls. They want a loyal, powerful army, and they see the heroes being a part of it. By choice or force, it will be. The heroes are the closest thing to equals they have encountered, and so they don't want to lose that dynamic. It keeps things interesting for them. Like a well balanced game of chess. Maybe they actually do want to be stopped. Deep down they realize they've gone too far and don't truly want what they're pursuing. They just wanted to prove they could do it. However, stopping on their own is not an option. They need something from the heroes that only they can get, but it's not time to collect...not just yet. They have a familiar bond with one of the heroes that prevents them, either by feelings or code, from killing them.
I think the best one is "I'm going to keep you alive to toy with you till I'm bored then il kill you" kind of like the way Strahd behaves.
The reason my BBEG will let the party live is that she is a forgotten goddess who secretly gains power directly from those who know and remember her (especially those who worship her). She was very recently released from her prison, forgotten in the new world. But since the PCs are pretty much the only people who currently remember her she needs to keep them alive in the moment to spread their knowledge of her.
The party comes to, beat up but alive. Each one finds that their hands have been branded with an arcane symbol -- the purpose of which is unknown. See how your players address that and go from there.
Unbeknownst to the party, they don't actually do anything. They're just "weiner" in some ancient arcane tounge that mighty wizard-types all know.
This is hillarious
Yeah, you said "cocky", I heard "frat boy".
I strongly advise to never make the bad guy choose to spare your heroes. Always make it so that the bbeg wants to kill them but sometimes thing else stops them. Either a gentlemen's agreement with something else or a cave in that gives the heros time to escape. I say this because it is very hard to leave a session without your players hating you. It will feel like you were flexing your "super cool bad guy self insert" It will also lessen the effect of how dangerous your bbeg is. Players wont respect them or how dangerous you wish them to be.
I usually go with "self interest." The villain has them by the short hairs, so they can say "do X or die." Now the heroes a) have to do the bad guy's dirty work, which saves the bad guy doing it himself: and b) now risk being tainted by association. If the PCs' friends find out, will they ever be trusted again? It sets up an interesting series of meaningful choices, which is always my goal as a GM.
And if the PCs tell him to piss off? OP doesn't want to follow through on that threat.
my bbeg at current state would not trust the pcs to do just about anything for them. if the final punishment is death either way, i dont see why the PCs would bother.
Gives them time to get swole and find the Holy MacGuffin that will stop the villains evil plan.
I guess that's fair. My players know my games are potentially lethal, so a "do X or die" choice is an accepted possibility, and one where they might choose death. And, as you say, you have to be willing to follow through.
So far my PCs have not encountered anyone bad enough to offer that ultimatum. There are three villains, and I haven't decided their order of bigness.
The BBEG's lieutenant / advisor / warlock convinces the BBEG to spare them. The advisor wants to use them for his own devices, possibly to have them send a message to the innocent townspeople / kingdom / whoever the good guys are that BBEG is coming for them next. BBEG acquiesces since this PC party was barely worth his time anyway. Little does BBEG know, the advisor is more of a Starscream kind of advisor - he wants to take out the BBEG himself so he can be the new BBEG and wants to help the PC party defeat the BBEG by giving away his weaknesses, secrets, maps to his lair, etc.
The BBEG is manipulating the party into helping their overall goal, and they're more useful alive than dead, all the way up until the party can actually fight the BBEG properly?
He barely notices them amongst the army he just felled. Let the straggling survivors spread word of his terrifying might
That is a good one
If you wanna play not that seriously have him get a phonecall/a sending message in the middle of the fight so he has to leave.
"Oh, hi, Ma! Happy - Counterspell - birthday! What, you didn't like the pet dragon? Shit - I forgot *Fireball you sonova* sorry, Ma! Ok, well, I'll take it back to Evil Petsmart and see if they'll take a trade for platinum, because gold dragon turns your skin - forcecage you stinking... - hold on a minute Ma, I'm real sorry" "Alright, Time Stop! Guys, this has been great, but I'm on the phone with Evil Ma, and I'd be a crummy Evil Son if I gave you more attention to her on her B-Day, amiright?" "...alright, Ma, just lemme get a quick prestidigitation and fire up my gate. We'll go to that barbecue joint in the Abyss you like. No reservation needed for your boy, I know the owner..." *Clap clap* all light vanishes, not even darkvision works, as their "nemesis" saunters out, loosening his tie to change for his dinner plans.
You control the battlefield, have the BBEG yeet them off a cliff or something when they're defeated. They just happen to survive the landing. This can be either due to what they land in or in or who's around when they hit the bottom.
My first thought was similar: battle happens on upper floor of a castle, bbeg’s spell is so powerful the floor breaks out below them and they fall out of his sight and have a couple of turns to run for it.
BBEG’s daughter wants to have a tea party so he has to leave without finishing off the PCs. The BBEG throws on his tutu and tiara as he walks away.
Important question: if the players are so far beneath the BBEG that he won't bother to kill them, then why is he even fighting them in the first place? The players will pick up on this, either consciously or subconsciously, and it will make the villain feel both less interesting and less threatening. No, the reason the villain doesn't impact the final blow in the fight should be because of something else that happens that draws the villains attention away. Perhaps one of his great war beasts went out of control temporarily, and he has to take a few moments to wrangle it, giving the PCs an opportunity to run off and hide among some rubble. Maybe someone that's an actual threat shows up, and he has to turn and fight them (winning, of course, but only after a couple rounds of back and forth. This will also serve to give the PCs a healthy respect for his power, especially if it's a character the PCs have already met and knows is more powerful than them). Or he might receive a missive from one of his lieutenants that one of their objectives has been completed, and they are awaiting further orders, so he leaves to direct his army. Anyways, my point is: the BBEG can't just *say* "killing you isn't worth my time," because generally, it makes no sense for him to say. Instead, you need to *show* that he doesn't consider the players worth his time, by having something that's more important than them (which can be basically anything, as long as it's not silly) come up mid-fight.
i agree. currently im leaning towards the: "your actions make my benefactors push for radical actions (see: \*my\* radical actions). keeping you alive both amuses me and accelerates my schedule for domination, otherwise, my benefactors will be reluctant to do this or that, because they are a pansy bunch that only respond to fear"
Maybe they aren’t worth bbeg’s time. Bbeg might have a very clear goal and just ignore underlings like the party unless the party forces them to fight
They don't get their hands dirty/the party isn't worth their time. Everytime the party fights the BBEG before the final battle, the BBEG isn't actually fighting, they are generally directing their minions and the flavor of the week or casting buffs on them. By the time the party is done with the appetizers, they've already left.
I had this issue too because I want a big boss right at the end despite other encounters with the big bad, so I established that both the players and the big bad had each learned of a different prophecy. Basically one prophecy stated that only the players could potentially stop her. Of course it was stated more mysteriously and linked to the event that brought all the players together. For the big bad, an ancient goddess of hate and bloodshed, she learned that she would only succeed on her evil plans if she slaughtered "her greatest opposers" on the day of slaughter, which is the day everything aligns for her to open portals from Acheron where she resides and unleash endless battle and bloodshed across the realm. So her avatar and minions can fuck with the party she knows they can't be killed until a certain day. I kind of was inspired by Fullmetal alchemist for this, if you haven't seen it, the protagonist has a moment where the main enemies have the perfect opportunity to kill him but actually save his life, stating the time is not right for his death. Always thought this was a mysterious and cool moment. They later find out that the big ritual requires the heroes of the story to be present for it to work so while they can get beaten down they can't be killed, and they use this to their advantage.
If they have a way to revive one player going down (ex: scroll of revivify or the spell itself), let the big bad kill one of them, then do a little monologue with him close to something like that : "Let this death be a warning. Stand against me and my plans again and you will suffer the same fate as your friend here." Then he teleports away. Now he's not only the big bad guys that's evil in the region, he will be hated by your PCs and there will be the question of revenge when they inevitably challenge him again.
Beh, don't worry if they've got it. Just snuff their cleric and their new quest can be finding somebody to cast before he starts to turn. Meanwhile, the cleric's walking the Serpent Road to get to King Kai.
I mean a smart villain would kill the opposition that made it all the way to his lair unless there was some in canon reason why a new more powerful party might step up (some life essences, chosen one bullshit). A truly malevolent BBEG might want to ensure the party is around to watch them lose everything, their family, their world blah blah blah, that whole bit. But if the party is the first one that's gotten to his door step, that probably means they're his current biggest threat to his power, so not killing or crippling them is a hard sell
One thing you could do I haven't seen mentioned is the BBEG does actually kill the heroes but some other entity or being intervenes and brings them back to stop the BBEG.
Honestly I think this would be intresting. You know the quote "you die as a hero where you live long enough to see yourself become a villain" Go with that, a villain that started out with good intentions that started out as a good person that slowly turned to more and more questionable means to better what was around him until he realized maybe it wasn't worth it. Maybe x group didn't really deserve it or were corrupt. So he turned into the force that MADE them better. A happy smile from a dying man and the realization that he was willing to pay the price for a better world is a beautiful thing if you can pull it off.
He needs to take a long rest to memorize *geas*
Hopefully it's 2e geas. 5e geas isn't worth the paper it's printed on.
Because what fun is there in taking over/destroying something if there is no one there to try to stop it? Why kill the party, one of the only groups that has managed to even come near the BBEG, when it is going to be so much fun to see them try again later and squirm when they realize the stakes?
There are good and bad reasons for a BBEG to leave their enemies alive. * Bad * Variations on "I just don't feel like". E.g. "you're not worth it". This is really transparently bad writing. BBEG just spent a minute fighting you, but a single spell or slash from their sword to kill you is now "not worth it"? It doesn't make sense internally. It also wastes time in that the players are really playing a cutscene where their actions don't matter. * Because your BBEG doesn't have organic goals or motivations and you just want to show off their statblock. * Good * It either adversely affects their goals to kill the PCs or does not further their goals. * They hope to recruit/corrupt the PCs. * The PCs possess some desired trait that would be lost if they died. E.g. a prophecy that requires them alive, a curse/boon that ends on their death, etc. * Part of their plan requires manipulating the party into taking a course of action that they don't realize furthers the BBEG goal. * The party being injured but not dead leads to some crucial information the BBEG is seeking. E.g. they will recuperate in a secret stronghold, and taking a physical token from the party will allow the BBEG to scry on its location. * The BBEG would normally kill the party gladly, but the particular location/circumstance would draw the attention of something they are avoiding in a way that merely beating them unconscious would not. E.g. a plane where death would attract the attention of a local deity. E.g. A magical location where swarms of shadows would overrun the area to feed on the dead. * The BBEG needs to kill them in a specific manner according to a prophecy/ritual, and the circumstances do not match up. * They have some sort of moral code about who they will kill, and the party currently is not part of it. * The BBEG cannot kill on certain holy days. * The BBEG is indebted to the party for some reason, such as the party sparing a minion, and they are obsessed with debts. * A prophecy prohibits them from directly taking a life X days before a ritual. * The party was accidentally engaged in a manner the BBEG finds dishonorable and will kill them on even footing later.
Someone posted this resource a few weeks ago, and I just happened to find I still had the tab open on my phone today! [here's 100 reasons ](https://www.dndspeak.com/2022/02/06/100-plausible-reasons-that-the-villain-doesnt-kill-the-heroes-when-they-have-the-chance/)
One I've always wanted to do was an inquisitor for the evil empire: he secretly *wants* the empire to fall, but knows he can't do it for whatever reason (perhaps his name is already marred, or the BBEG has leverage over him). He *wants* the party to grow strong enough to kill him and overthrow the empire, so he spares them and takes something they value (hostages... limbs... take your pick) to ensure they come after him again. "Even a coward can die for a cause. It takes courage to live for one."
BBEG doesn't want to kill them, he wants to break them. In death, they will be martyrs and their legacy will inspire other heroes to rise in their wake, but if he breaks them and any will to keep fighting, all those who look to these heroes for safety, for hope, they break too.
Ya, that works. Honestly, one of my favourite bad guy tropes, though, is the cordial villain. The one who chats with them happily and will just shoot the shit while he “spars” with them. They’re fighting for their lives but he’s just having a nice chat while he gets in his daily practice. They never stood a chance and he won’t kill them afterward. Why would he? He so enjoys these little distractions.
>The bbeg has polymorphed an entire town into obedient rabid humanoid-on-all-fours monstrosities, and wagers with the party Seems like the reason right here. Can't collect on the bet if they're dead. In fact, them fighting him probably just makes him increase the stakes.
The wager was that if they can even Incapacitate him, he'll relinquish a quarter of the citizens
Sure, but if they lose, why kill them when he can make them into monstrosities as well, or force them to go find him more folks to change, or help with whatever larger scheme he's got going on?
very good questions. perhaps he doesnt consider it self sabotage to let them go for his amusement, as it entertains him, and they further his goals by making his "benefactors" push for more extreme measures (see: his measures), by disrupting their non-essential plans?
can go the way of: since everything you do benefits me, i have no reason to eliminate you, yet.
Some context would help greatly because otherwise, no they’d just wipe out the party wholesale. Without any details, this makes me think of the movie Constantine with Keanu Reeves where spoiler alert: they need to reawaken Rachel Wiesz’s psychic abilities before she can be used as a vessel/sacrifice for Mammon/Lucifer’s son.
He's in a hurry to get somewhere and doesn't have time to finish them off.
How did megatron pull off the "murder soulmates" vibe in his renditions? And how can i pull that off with characters?
Depending on their level of power, because death might make them stronger.
I mean, maybe the BBE GIs just a genuine sadest. Who wants to keep the party alive to torture them slowly doing damage but giving them like a month or more in game before they would actually be killed.
He could curse them or force them into a deal in which he needs adventurers to do a task he couldn't do lowmey himself. Maybe they are cursed until the retrieve another adventurers special magic item, so now they're on a morally ambiguous quest. Maybe they could follow their squad until they camp and take it in their sleep. Maybe get them drunk and steal it. Maybe straight up fight them. That way the defeat still carries weight and consequences without them feeling like they got off scott free because nothing actually matters
My BBEG is grooming my players without their knowledge. She will hold them as a private adventuring band, or a trophy, at the end of the campaign. Or they will kill her. But she is orchestrating every big fight they've gotten into.
A classic is to have the party be the only survivors of a larger group. The BBEG needs messengers to spread the word of how unbeatable they are. If you're ruling through fear you need to maintain your reputation and word doesn't spread as well if everyone dies.
Maybe the BBEG isn't a homosidial madman and prefers to leave the PCs alive if and when they are already beaten once.
Another reason could be: “It’s not enough for me to kill you, I can do that at anytime, rather I want to break your spirits. When the reality of your own inferiority has finally settled into your feeble little minds and despair overtakes you, only then will I consider putting you out of your misery and only if the mood strikes me.” It is arrogant and cocky to the core while making it the fatal flaw that will inevitably lead to his downfall.
This is probably closest to what i have in mind. My bbeg isnt flawless, and a flaw that they can call back on to in his final defeat
Exactly, gives the players the chance to hit him with the “Who’s inferior now?” line, as he indignantly complains about how “this can’t be happening”. It’s always satisfying to knock down a smug a-hole with a superiority complex 😈
3rd act breakdown ftw
My BBEG needs the hero to do their "hero" things. He does leave them alive. He NEEDS them alive. The BBEG plan is for those PCs to start a rebellion against the lukewarm dying empire. The chaos that the PCs are making while fighting. IS the BBEG goal. This is not generally applicable but it's a great reason for the BBEG leaving the heroes alive.
How about this, BBEG underestimates them and thinks they died. Walks away and says some Elden Ring line like “Lowly Tarnished... Thou'rt unfit even to graft...”
1. You are merely pests , I can’t be bothered 2. I want to toy with you, it’s my entertainment 3. You are useful for now for a temporary goal 4. You are in my way and I’m in a hurry 5. It’s too much work to kill you and deal with the fallout 6. I actually am impressed by your skills and want to recruit you
Maybe he's very propaganda-minded and finds it more useful to lock them up, have a sham trial, and then a public execution. It turns his believers against heroes like you, and it scares his enemies into compliance. Or maybe the battle is in a very public space, and to be seen killing someone in cold blood like that would be detrimental to the persona he's trying to depict. So he'll kill them later when no one is watching. Or much simpler one - there's a time constraint on the battle for him, and he NEEDS to leave/escape at a certain point and is not able to deal the killing blow. To avoid this being a railroaded deus ex, apply this same time constraint to the heroes if they are winning but can't do it in time. Edit: just thought of a good one - at the last moment, his second in command betrays and kills him to take power, and in the confusion the PCs escape. Gets them out alive, but now they have a new, potentially more deadly BBEG to deal with.
The logic I would use, depending on the level the party is at, is that they’re so far beneath the BBEG that they’re not even worth his time or effort to deal with. I.E. they have to deal with his minions until they take down something like his second in command, at which point he finally decides “fine, I’ll swat these flies off myself since no one else is competent enough to deal with them.
The BBEG learns enough about the party's motivations and weaknesses to manipulate them into unwittingly advancing his agenda. Maybe that's a more expedient means of accomplishing his goals than what he had initially planned. The party might not be strong enough to stop the BBEG, but they might be strong enough to derail the plans of someone else who's actually a threat to the BBEG. All it takes is the right set of lies, half-truths, and omissions to set them on a collision course with a person or group who could actually be a thorn in the BBEG's side. Regardless of whether the PCs ruin the plans of this third party or get killed by them, the BBEG still comes out ahead. Two birds, one stone.
My two cents: if you don't want your party to kill something, don't put it in front of them. If they come up with something crazy and have a chance of beating him, you'll have two options. Replace him or pull something out of your butt and let him escape. The first option means your bbeg is gone and you have to figure out something new, which is a bummer. If you fudge to let him escape, your players will feel really cheated. My solution for this problem, which I'm currently facing: Use a simulacrum. Make the simulacrum extremely tough, and then the party finds out that that was just a created copy, and the real one is MUCH more powerful.
Ive accounted for both options If they win the bbeg has a thematically appropriate escape that sets up future conflicts Now just thinking if bbeg wins
I got the impression the BBEG was definitely going to win, cuz GM-magic.
Bbeg wins. Three of 4 rolling deaths saves. The 4th fully dead. Bbeg walks over to the cleric of the party's struggling body and casts cure wounds. "You are not worth my time, go heal your comrades and remember this." Then walks away. Be sure their is a heavy consequence if the cleric fights him. Real death. If they can't revivify 4th might be fully dead permanently but sets the stakes
I mean. He might just leave them for dead. Roll for death saving throws and you are good. If they survive they wake up after 1d4 hours. To note, usually characters are unable to understand if a creature is dead or not unless they inspect it and make a medicine check, some undead can because they have the appropriate trait.
The party is actually a part of their grand plan. The BBEG is manipulating the party through a third party. Or is planning on pinning their crimes on the parry or a member of it.
Because they need the heroes alive for their evil plan to work out.
You ever seen a movie? Like ... every movie, the BBEG captures the heroes, reveals his plan/lair, and then tries to \[enslave, torture, kill, seduce, duel, impress, persuade, convert, intimidate, sell, cook, blackmail, etc\] them. More important - you should ALWAYS have a motive like that for EVERY encounter. If the stakes are always "kill or be killed" the fights get pretty boring. Annnd, you'll always have Players who fight to the death even when surrounded by 20 goons with xbows aimed at their faces. Because they have been taught it's kill or die. If, instead, you run combat like a movie or book, and you focus on the mental/social game as much (or more than) the physical one, the players will be trained to try different methods of resolving the fight (retreat, seduction, surrender, intimidation, negotiation, persuasion, charm, etc). Like a comic book, they could clash swords, then lean forward against the enemy and snarl a humiliating secret that throws the baddie off their game. Or the PC takes big damage one round and seeing their HP is low, they fall to the ground and say, "OK, ok, enough.. What do you want in the Neverwood Forest?" Don't worry about TPKing the party. Just narrate that, on the last hit, they go out. Thennn, they wake up sitting at a giant, elegant table, with a feast before them, and an attractive person at the other end, smiling charmingly, saying, "eat up, you'll need your strength."
The setting so far has been very bdz esque The bbg has polymorphed an entire town into obedient rabid humanoid-on-all-fours monstrosities, and wagers with the party Incapacitate him, and they will relinquish a quarter of the citizens of the town.
Bdz?
Uhm.... to send them to the torture chambers for interrogation? To keep them alive in order to feed them later to his favourite pets?
Could be that they want to corrupt the party to serve them as worthy fighters. Or maybe they honestly believe that the reason they're doing all the BBEG stuff is because there's something much worse coming and it's just self-serving politicians who can't see what's coming, so they want the party to help them rather than fight them.
In their first face meeting, my BBEG outright told our the Warforged PC that he has future plans for him, and then that he knows/knew the cleric's forgotten mother. He also mentioned the Ranger PC, but only by trash talking their Dragon Rider lineage.
BBEG is honorable: They surrendered, they are no longer viable combatants under the sacred code of lady Gen'va so I will no longer fight then.
My BBEG is an all powerful Wizard and while my party hasn’t encountered him yet, I’ve got a plan in mind for once they do. I want this wizard to treat them like a pesky fly. He does not have time to peddle their heroic fantasies and give them a proper fight, he is busy doing evil Wizard stuff. So instead he banishes them all back in time to a prehistoric era. That way I can have an arc involving dinosaurs and getting back to the future, and the party knows that this guy does not fuck around.
BBEG is a dom
BBEG isn't really a BBEG, the party is being manipulated by the faction that wants to destroy it for whatever reason. BBEG defeats the party and presents them with evidence that they're being used.
Doesn't care enough. Does this regularly, like tell them ahead of time or afterwards this is a regular thing. He just does not take the time to double tap.
Im my campaign the BBEG BELIEVES with all his heart that what he is doing is good. And he hopes that these heroes will come around and join him and his cause, that each time he sends someone after them it is to make them stronger so that eventually they will join him.
The way my BBEG is thinking is "the party has things I want, but they have to give them to me volountarily" (all my players have different kinds of mcguffins that the bbeg needs for their final plan)
Probably mentioned, but too tired to read through them all: Depending on the level they meet the BBEG at...its not worth the effort to kill them. They are so beneath the BBEG's time and effort and are squashed so easily that the BBEG literally does not care enough to kill them. The party is a momentary amusement, a test, a diversion, a unique pop up in his day that caught is attention for the moment, but now that the "threat" has been realized and neutralized...its actually a disappointment. The BBEG: I was hoping for a challenge, and all that arrived was this? You managed to make me take notice of your attempts to interfere with my plans, and this is what is causing the ruckus? A ragtag group of ill-equiped, ill-informed adventurers. How...droll. This is the best that could be mustered against me. I am...honestly, flabbergasted. And insulted. I was expecting...more. and this is what I get. Although...I suppose your efforts should be...acknowledged, meager as they were. No, no...I will not kill you. The effort and expenditure on my part to do so is not worth the instant gratification that I would momentarily gain. You are not worthy of death by my hands. For making one such as myself take notice of your paltry attempts at heroism, I grant you your pathetic lives, such as they may be. You will live, if only to bear witness to the failure that your endeavor was. The people of this town are MINE. Begone from here. *mass teleport the party away, to a place of DM's choosing*
An interesting path may be to actually just kill them all and then have their souls do some sort of afterlife quests to come back.
>Edit : The setting so far has been very goku esque They fade to black, and the next time they meet the bbeg: "Hm, I thought I already killed you all."
Or Jafar: HOW MANY TIMES DO I HAVE TO KILL YOU, BOY?
After trouncing them: “You’re not *terrible* fighters. You could be useful. Join me…blah blah blah. You have until tomorrow.”
This might be helpful. https://youtu.be/gbaL5VpMQs8?si=MIcBi1oBH37FuWLs
I’d go with the BBEG gets off on the mental torment of leaving the party alive. Every evil he commits after their encounter eats away at them, knowing that if they were strong enough, they would have prevented these atrocities.
My BBEG is just bored….they really want to play. Maybe next time the heroes will be more entertaining….
The bbegs tend to leave the heros alive in my game for one of a few reasons. They are busy, the heros are making the world a better place for everyone anyway, heros are test subjects or unwitting allies to the bbeg, or even the gods have rules. One game the bbeg is using the heros to defeat a mutual enemy. Might as well team up with the lesser of two evils. Who would you rather have to deal with. The monster that picks you off or the monster that wanton slaughters you? Another game, the world is run by a collection of gods who turn people into reality TV shows and content creators to keep the head god busy.
Maybe one of them is somehow related to him or her. They are an unknown brother or sister. They want contact but have decided that corrupting them is the best route. By beating them but leaving them alive, people lose faith in them as heroes and push them away. They could have a plan which they need this group for, by targeting them even in defeat he or she raises their prominence in society. Ultimately, he or she can use that to draw out a specific target, be it a person or item whexh they intend to kill or steal. Finally, maybe he or she wishes to absolutely destroy them by physically beating them numerous times. Then by discrediting them and maybe even ultimately turning the tables on them and making everyone view them as the bad guys.
The BBEG is aware of a prophecy or set up some series of events that the heroes must do themselves in order to further their aims. I can imagine a temple that is protected by a powerful entity that bars the BBEG from entry. They trick the heroes into going into the temple to recover some artifact, thinling they need it to defeat them or something. Then BBEG comes for them.
Honestly sometimes it’s just pride. They’re insignificant. A waste of his power. They don’t deserve the satisfaction of dying as heroes, but living as failures. It motivates them to live as heroes.
Simply not worth the time nor effort to finish off
How about just "I am not a murderer. You are only opposing me because you don't understand the full situation. But I will defend myself, as I have proven today."
Something I did with my party is have the BBEG not even recognize the party as enough of a threat to finish them off. The rules for dying are designed assuming you want there to be an actual chance at death in the situation; however if you don't want them to die, you can ignore the rules and have the party just unconscious. Maybe the BBEG thought the party was going to bleed out, but there's been a Druid tracking the BBEG hoping to find a way to beat him that comes by and stabilizes the party after the BBEG leaves, and they become an ally that helps out a little, but not in combat.
BBEG is a secret relative of the players, yet uncovered, and does not want to kill family? BBEG is secretly in love with one of the players but is not ready to reveal that feeling? BBEG needs some sparring partners, so keeps them around to play with them. While they secretly strive for power, they are disappointed as soon as someone gives in, so they are looking for amusement. BBEG needs some free-of-will henchmen, and by displaying their power and offering rewards after the defeat, they try to hire the players over to their side. If the players stall, they survive to fight another fight.
It's 3 parts for my BBEG. 1. Might makes right. She wants a challenge, and the party is that challenge so she lets them run about so they can get strong. 2. She's immortal. She's a death knight, and as far as she knows, and as far as the party knows, they can't kill her permanently. 3. She's imprisoned. She is in a magical prison and cannot escape until a certain point. Her minions work towards freeing her rather than killing the party. This works for me because it allows the party to do what they want in the short term (chase down foes from their backstory, etc.) while not having to worry about the BBEG as a number 1 priority. My campaign is very sandbox-esque so it flows a lot better to have her just be a piece in the background that looms over the party knowing they'll eventually have to face her when the time comes, but in the meantime can handle their personal problems.
Could also be: BBEG puts on terrifying show of force, decided they’re not worth it, or boring, or he has something time sensitive going. So he leaves because f that he has things to do. (This happened to my party in a campaign we are about to end. We broke his lab, killed his science experiment and sent him fleeing to another plane far away from us to pick up the pieces. That was winning bc we needed his experiment gone, and fighting him was a bonus. He nearly died and for a lich that strong? We did a good job.)
One of my BBEG was a devil that went around killing people's loved ones to rile them up so they would train and become strong enough to kill his own boss. Also the BBEG could have a curse of immortality and be doing evil shit just so someone would finally manage to give him rest.
the pawn: i need you to achieve/touch/locate/solve something i cannot due to the nature of my power.
The heroes are part of a prophecy that the BBEG wants to see to fruition. The BBEG wants to capture and interrogate the heroes for information. The BBEG keeps the heroes alive so that they can warp them into monstrosities like the townspeople were.
He might to steal something from them? "No need to kill, guards might check up on murders, a highway robbery is a annoying, but not something for a city/barony/principality/kingdom/Empire to pull the stops for it as murders are." It could be really funny if they have a small piece of something which they have never really investigated but kept, maybe a part of a sword which was used for something else but an artistic Smith incorporated into the Blum of the Sword?
Might be late to the party, but if the bbeg has never been witnessed by the party killing someone, then it could be a fun twist, if he cannot kill anyone himself (a curse or something maybe) which then also works as a hidden weakness.
If he’s super cocky, “Killing you just isn’t worth my time” is a classic way to go
My bbeg is a god of chaos and just LOVES everything the players do. It makes them very uneasy.
The BBEG orders them to be made into slaves to serve as an example to anyone who may oppose them. Complete with Collars of Antimagic Field forced around their necks.
"That prophecy that says you're the chosen ones who will defeat me? The prophecy that made everyone rally to you like the one, solitary flame in the darkness? Yeah, I wrote that prophecy. It's all bullshit, but so long as the people of the kingdom believe it, none of them will rise up. They're waiting for you to achieve the impossible rather than trying for themselves... Now... YOU guys are familiar to me, harmless, incompetent and easily countered. I can deal with you comfortably and without inconvenience. You aren't so much a thorn in my side as you are a grain of sand in my shoe. I would prefer not to have to deal with unknown mystery actors who rise up from the masses. Who knows, maybe one of them has what it takes to take me down? But so long as they believe that ONLY you guys can succeed? Not one of them will step forward. And that, dear puppet, is exactly how I like it." -Chuban, forced fulfiller of prophecy.
I have a take: BBEG isn't actually the real bad guy, and unfortunately YOU have been working for the bigger, badder guy, and you just haven't worked it out yet. But you'll work that out. If you want to, that is. Next time, you'll either join them, or be killed.