Super interesting how propaganda and psychological warfare follows so closely behind any technological advancement - or maybe commercialization.
Unfortunately, the early Nazi party leadership understood the importance of this all too well.
They had versions of those propaganda girls during World War 2 called “Tokyo Rose” for Japan and “Axis Sally” for Germany I believe. Axis Sally would alternate between playing swing music (which the soldiers loved) and spouting propaganda about how their wives were cheating, they were losing the war, their locations, surrendering etc (which the soldiers found hilarious)
All in all it wasn’t effective and seemed to have the opposite impact of what was intended. The soldiers loved the popular music and they bonded together in laughing at the propaganda.
Repeating myself cuz’ someone else mentioned Rose -
I think it is super interesting the way propaganda and psychological warfare comes so soon after any technological advancements & commercialization.
Early Nazi party leadership understood the importance of this all too well.
Edit: Hannah also played music - the anti-war protest songs of the 60’s.
That’ll show em’. Playing the best music ever produced. Ever. How can they possibly cope!?
Here is the latest and greatest by the 4th PSYOP Group:
[https://youtu.be/VA4e0NqyYMw?si=xEDGs7\_LoPm4OhzY](https://youtu.be/VA4e0NqyYMw?si=xEDGs7_LoPm4OhzY)
Note: Both examples included in clip, one after the other…
Sources:
“Operation Wandering Soul”/The “Ghost Tapes”:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Wandering_Soul?wprov=sfti1#Voice_recordings
Original audio/video source:
https://youtu.be/4d9H_1ygEv8?si=4kzxRYWpyQ_E63Gu
Hanoi Hanna:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hanoi_Hannah?wprov=sfti1#Career
Original audio/video source:
https://youtu.be/P884x5WIP2k?si=nGivx7RAl8-m-x7D
That's just the brutality of war. Thousands to millions die just to move the lines on maps. The problem lies in the fact that there are no definitive lines on said specific war.
Considering my guy has an anime profile picture I doubt he has experience LOL
If you have experience (I’m assuming you do) I hope you’re doing alright now btw.
Isn't it intellectually lazy to just leave the blame at "corrupt governments?"
The Russians wanted world domination, and the US was willing to fight proxy wars to stop that. Can you explain how that's different from Ukraine?
Yes you're right! It's corrupt governments being controlled by those who lobby for influence/control that determine when, where and how wars break out.
Who told you russia wanted world domination? Would it happen to be the same people who advocate for war and profit well from it?
Can you please elaborate on bringing ukraine into the conversation.
Self projection I see is another skill you have mastered, got quite the achievement list going on!
Anything else you'd like to add that's relevant to the topic at hand or you just going to bark in your safe space for attention today?
And come to find out, she was forced to do this by the North Vietnamese. She was a US citizen and lost her citizenship because of this. Eventually she gained her citizenship back after it was found out that she was forced to do this
Okay? Trịnh Thị Ngọ, or Hanoi Hannah as she was known to the Americans, was not a US citizen. She was born and raised in Vietnam and learned English to watch English language movies. I'm not finding any record of an American working for the Vietnamese radio during the war. Can you provide a source? There are nearly 300 episodes of that show and they have very little written descriptions for each episode.
Can you find the name? Anything? Because I cannot.
Edit: Iva Toguri D'Aquino was one of the women who are attributed to being a "Tokyo Rose," but never actually renounced her US citizenship during World War 2. Her broadcasts are far more innocuous than other POW broadcasters. The POW writers apparently purposely made sure of this, due to a promise they made her.
After the war, she was tried and convicted in a US court in a deeply flawed trial that saw the US strip her of her citizenship. She was later given a full and unconditional pardon under Ford and her citizenship was restored.
The reason it's important to get this sort of information correctly is because you presented this information in a way that seemed to condemn the Vietnamese, when the truth was the US government unjustly jailing and stripping the citizenship of one of its own citizens.
I mean, I thought the original comment was pretty clear. She was forced by Northern Vietnam to make the recordings, the US stripped her of her citizenship for it, and she was only given it back later after it was discovered she was not willing. While yours has more details and was admittedly more clear, I don't see the original post as incorrect.
Because it wasn't ever the same war. It was WWII and it was the Japanese who did it. It came off as them trying to critique the Vietnamese, when it was the US that was really the villain in this story.
Ok so I understand he and I got Japan and North Vietnam mixed up but he clearly, at least to me, states the US stripped her of her citizenship falsely. How is that not making them at least partly the villain? I'm really not seeing how you think he didn't paint them at least in a bad light
ETA: And wouldn't it be both who are the villains? That is often the case in war
It was too until she started saying "your pilots cant see you from up there they are going to bomb you" and stuff like that then it started being funny
When we modern Americans hear Americans of the fifties and sixties speak, we say very similar things.
Not sure if this is all that is happening here, but I can very much tell you we do not sound like films from 1958 - like at all.
Edit:
She learned English from media of the day, largely:
Born: 1931 - Hanoi, Tonkin, French Indochina
Died: 30 September 2016 (aged 85) - Ho Chi Minh City, Vietnam
Early life
Ngọ was born in Hanoi in 1931. Her father, Trịnh Định Kính, was a successful businessman who owned the largest glass factory in French Indochina. She later stated that she grew eager to learn English because of her desire to watch her favorite films such as Gone with the Wind without subtitles. Her family provided her with private lessons in English. In 1955, when she was 24 years old, she joined the Voice of Vietnam radio station and was chosen to read the English language newscast aimed at listeners in Asia's English-speaking countries. One of her tutors and mentors at the station was Australian journalist Wilfred Burchett. At this time, she adopted the alias Thu Hương, meaning "autumn fragrance", as it was easier and shorter for her non-Vietnamese listeners.
But like American Vietnamese or like native Vietnamese speaking English for the first time? Or maybe it sounds old fashioned? Hard to tell with an outside ear
When I was a kid I got *really* into the Good Morning Vietnam soundtrack. I loved Robin Williams and Motown. What can I say? A child of culture. I was pretty much the only 8 year old in my jurisdiction who could quote those monologues. Since I've found Reddit, I met other kids who could perform the same trick. Anyway, I'm almost 40 now and sometimes, I read shit about this war. Hanoi Hannah for instance. I had no idea what I was saying but it made the adults around me laugh. "Hanoi Hannah, oh little G.I, you and your little Toto too. Aaaahahahah. I'll get you my pretty!" Robin, comparing Hanoi Hannah to the Wicked Witch from Wizard of Oz before moving into Marsha And The Van Della's, yes.
Anyway, this is really cool information and thank you for teaching me about a joke I've been repeating my entire life.
I don’t know what you’re talking about at this point.
Is this a “communism good” thing? Seems like an equally well constructed thought to me
Jane.. is that you?
Pretty fucked up.
Imagine a superpower greater than the USA invades us because they don't agree with our economic system domestically and want our mineral resources. We defend ourselves with War and the enemy superpower starts projecting Ghost like something from Project Blue Beam all around. Or some event where Jesus returns and needs everyone to kill themselves or something.
Had to go through torture like this in S.E.R.E school. Many days locked in a very small box with shit like this blasting all around you 24/7. I often still have random moments where i hear that place That was 20yrs ago. And it was training. A very effective training but still just a simulation. I cant imagine a day in the shoes of the men who were exposed to the real deal for years.
Those voices and sounds in thier head are probably as loud today as they were then
Isn't Vietnam communist? Wouldn't that mean the Americans are the ones with the belief in an afterlife? I thought communist countries didn't really have much religion.
There was a ton of traditional Buddhism and similar beliefs in Vietnam during the era (despite nationalist sentiment ). Also, I was referring to specific beliefs about non-religious, or a total lack of, burials which would result in a “wandering soul” unable to move on, which listening to the recording you can tell they exploit very directly.
Great question though.
And - yes. American religious culture is uber stupid. That also.
I hate to um actually you but MASH was made (partially) during the Vietnam war and you can see a lot of that reflected in the themes of the show. MASH may have been set in Korea but it was very heavy handed in its relatability to the Vietnam war and the anti war proponents.
Sure. That doesn't mean that the characters in M\*A\*S\*H were time travelers who could thus make reference to a war that'd start in the future.
There may very well have been references to Tokyo Rose or some similar kind of North Korean/Chinese psy-op radio station/speaker thing.
What is Reddit on about? This is the only comment not praising the propaganda, and it gets downvoted. It's propaganda. It's valid to call it bullshit even if it's against the U.S.
Thanks. But don't need any defending from these gullible douches. I've been told my whole life how great our country is and it is. But what i didn't learn until now was how "Evil" the USA is.
Our government is out of control. We can't stop sticking our noses in every other country's business and elections.
Hanoi Hannah was basically copied from the Japanese WW2 “Tokyo Rose” campaign.
Super interesting how propaganda and psychological warfare follows so closely behind any technological advancement - or maybe commercialization. Unfortunately, the early Nazi party leadership understood the importance of this all too well.
They had versions of those propaganda girls during World War 2 called “Tokyo Rose” for Japan and “Axis Sally” for Germany I believe. Axis Sally would alternate between playing swing music (which the soldiers loved) and spouting propaganda about how their wives were cheating, they were losing the war, their locations, surrendering etc (which the soldiers found hilarious) All in all it wasn’t effective and seemed to have the opposite impact of what was intended. The soldiers loved the popular music and they bonded together in laughing at the propaganda.
Repeating myself cuz’ someone else mentioned Rose - I think it is super interesting the way propaganda and psychological warfare comes so soon after any technological advancements & commercialization. Early Nazi party leadership understood the importance of this all too well. Edit: Hannah also played music - the anti-war protest songs of the 60’s. That’ll show em’. Playing the best music ever produced. Ever. How can they possibly cope!?
Here is the latest and greatest by the 4th PSYOP Group: [https://youtu.be/VA4e0NqyYMw?si=xEDGs7\_LoPm4OhzY](https://youtu.be/VA4e0NqyYMw?si=xEDGs7_LoPm4OhzY)
I made only like 30 seconds and turned off………
My history teacher said she was also known as the Berlin Bitch.
Who played the music/propaganda to who? And what was the intended effect? Could you elaborate? This is interesting.
Interesting fact: They had to stop using the "Ghost Tapes", as it was freaking out the GI's and the ARVN troops also.
I'm watching this on my bed and I was getting freaked out let alone some dark jungle
I'm watching *you* watching this on your bed and I'm getting freaked out. Sorry, couldn't resist the joke, but now I feel like a sicko. 🙏
I was wondering what you were looking at.
I thought I heard breathing
Try listening, after smoking a joint, alone in some dark jungle. It should be outlawed by the Geneva Convention.
Maybe not the best time for joints
Lol....you want rules....in war....lol
BF Vietnam flashbacks
Without doubt the best BF game ever. Requesting a pickup, over!
Playing fortunate son activated in my huey while picking u up while drifting in the air. :)
i only searched for this comment! :)
“They will napalm you tonight…”
Note: Both examples included in clip, one after the other… Sources: “Operation Wandering Soul”/The “Ghost Tapes”: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Wandering_Soul?wprov=sfti1#Voice_recordings Original audio/video source: https://youtu.be/4d9H_1ygEv8?si=4kzxRYWpyQ_E63Gu Hanoi Hanna: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hanoi_Hannah?wprov=sfti1#Career Original audio/video source: https://youtu.be/P884x5WIP2k?si=nGivx7RAl8-m-x7D
Bad ass
The ghost tape audio is absolutely horrifying. I couldn't imagine being on edge tracking an enemy and having to deal with that twisted shit.
a lot of what the girl says is actually true.
did she lie tho
I mean, Hannah was spittin straight facts.
Fallout 3 radio signal near the Citadel
She ain't lying
It wasn't propaganda, america fucked up and used their soldiers like Canon fodder.
it was propaganda but it was also true
That's just the brutality of war. Thousands to millions die just to move the lines on maps. The problem lies in the fact that there are no definitive lines on said specific war.
No, that's the brutality of corrupt governments who want recources or political control on foreign lands.
Well put, getting sick of the “that’s just war” argument.
It's a terrible opinion to have specially when it comes from people without experiance!
Considering my guy has an anime profile picture I doubt he has experience LOL If you have experience (I’m assuming you do) I hope you’re doing alright now btw.
Hard not to judge a book by its cover these days! Yes thank you! 👍
Isn't it intellectually lazy to just leave the blame at "corrupt governments?" The Russians wanted world domination, and the US was willing to fight proxy wars to stop that. Can you explain how that's different from Ukraine?
Yes you're right! It's corrupt governments being controlled by those who lobby for influence/control that determine when, where and how wars break out. Who told you russia wanted world domination? Would it happen to be the same people who advocate for war and profit well from it? Can you please elaborate on bringing ukraine into the conversation.
Weird coping mechanism, but ok. 👍
Weird opinion but OK 👌
Self-deprecation has always been a amusing thing.
Considering you got triggered so easily by one challenge to your opinion you're a natural at it.
Ahahhahaaha don't care shit. You do have some nerves poke out lol
Self projection I see is another skill you have mastered, got quite the achievement list going on! Anything else you'd like to add that's relevant to the topic at hand or you just going to bark in your safe space for attention today?
Hahahah bros mad.
That doesn't justify anything.
Lol where's the lie though?
Being told they’re there for a just war and that the American people are proud of them?
And come to find out, she was forced to do this by the North Vietnamese. She was a US citizen and lost her citizenship because of this. Eventually she gained her citizenship back after it was found out that she was forced to do this
Do you have a source for this? Nothing online seems to indicate that she was a US citizen, and she also seems to have agreed with the broadcasts.
It was actually on Mysteries at The Museum on the Travel Channel..
Okay? Trịnh Thị Ngọ, or Hanoi Hannah as she was known to the Americans, was not a US citizen. She was born and raised in Vietnam and learned English to watch English language movies. I'm not finding any record of an American working for the Vietnamese radio during the war. Can you provide a source? There are nearly 300 episodes of that show and they have very little written descriptions for each episode.
There is another woman with a similar story.
Can you find the name? Anything? Because I cannot. Edit: Iva Toguri D'Aquino was one of the women who are attributed to being a "Tokyo Rose," but never actually renounced her US citizenship during World War 2. Her broadcasts are far more innocuous than other POW broadcasters. The POW writers apparently purposely made sure of this, due to a promise they made her. After the war, she was tried and convicted in a US court in a deeply flawed trial that saw the US strip her of her citizenship. She was later given a full and unconditional pardon under Ford and her citizenship was restored. The reason it's important to get this sort of information correctly is because you presented this information in a way that seemed to condemn the Vietnamese, when the truth was the US government unjustly jailing and stripping the citizenship of one of its own citizens.
I mean, I thought the original comment was pretty clear. She was forced by Northern Vietnam to make the recordings, the US stripped her of her citizenship for it, and she was only given it back later after it was discovered she was not willing. While yours has more details and was admittedly more clear, I don't see the original post as incorrect.
Because it wasn't ever the same war. It was WWII and it was the Japanese who did it. It came off as them trying to critique the Vietnamese, when it was the US that was really the villain in this story.
Ok so I understand he and I got Japan and North Vietnam mixed up but he clearly, at least to me, states the US stripped her of her citizenship falsely. How is that not making them at least partly the villain? I'm really not seeing how you think he didn't paint them at least in a bad light ETA: And wouldn't it be both who are the villains? That is often the case in war
"They lie to you"; well, she wasn't wrong about that, to be honest.
She’s not wrong though.
And Vietnam won. So that's all she wrote.
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Naah, i kinda know they won. Vietnam is a whole state, not North and South, innit?And the comunists run the country.
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Hahahah, whatever dude, fuck yeah. Siri, play "Team America"
Username checks out
You say we, we, we. But you didn’t do anything. Lives were lost for what exactly? “Oh yeah just another korea”.
Damnthatsspooky
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It was too until she started saying "your pilots cant see you from up there they are going to bomb you" and stuff like that then it started being funny
south vietnamese here, literally nobody in vietnam speaks like the ghost tapes do, not even in the north
When we modern Americans hear Americans of the fifties and sixties speak, we say very similar things. Not sure if this is all that is happening here, but I can very much tell you we do not sound like films from 1958 - like at all. Edit: She learned English from media of the day, largely: Born: 1931 - Hanoi, Tonkin, French Indochina Died: 30 September 2016 (aged 85) - Ho Chi Minh City, Vietnam Early life Ngọ was born in Hanoi in 1931. Her father, Trịnh Định Kính, was a successful businessman who owned the largest glass factory in French Indochina. She later stated that she grew eager to learn English because of her desire to watch her favorite films such as Gone with the Wind without subtitles. Her family provided her with private lessons in English. In 1955, when she was 24 years old, she joined the Voice of Vietnam radio station and was chosen to read the English language newscast aimed at listeners in Asia's English-speaking countries. One of her tutors and mentors at the station was Australian journalist Wilfred Burchett. At this time, she adopted the alias Thu Hương, meaning "autumn fragrance", as it was easier and shorter for her non-Vietnamese listeners.
The transatlantic accent of the elite class had a lot to do with that, specifically in film.
True. I actually miss it…
Does she have an American accent?
no, vietnamese accent
But like American Vietnamese or like native Vietnamese speaking English for the first time? Or maybe it sounds old fashioned? Hard to tell with an outside ear
like native vietnamese speaking eng by studying through university
Ok idontknowvietnam
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Definitely true. This was called out early and often. Plus it sounded like a recording…
Hey it worked I guess.
thats a weird aphex twin - come to daddy remix.. i like it
When I was a kid I got *really* into the Good Morning Vietnam soundtrack. I loved Robin Williams and Motown. What can I say? A child of culture. I was pretty much the only 8 year old in my jurisdiction who could quote those monologues. Since I've found Reddit, I met other kids who could perform the same trick. Anyway, I'm almost 40 now and sometimes, I read shit about this war. Hanoi Hannah for instance. I had no idea what I was saying but it made the adults around me laugh. "Hanoi Hannah, oh little G.I, you and your little Toto too. Aaaahahahah. I'll get you my pretty!" Robin, comparing Hanoi Hannah to the Wicked Witch from Wizard of Oz before moving into Marsha And The Van Della's, yes. Anyway, this is really cool information and thank you for teaching me about a joke I've been repeating my entire life.
She speaketh facts
This reminds me of Far Cry radio tower propaganda.
What video game was this in? Anyone remember?
This? Battlefield Vietnam
Thanks. I had a feeling it was a memory from farther back. Good times.
Far cry 5. The first Dlc where you played like rambo/ movie star.
I'll have to check it out.
It's called "hours of darkness"
Thanks! Will be nice to jump back into that game again, had fun with it during lockdowns
They also had it in the “Hour of Darkness” DLC for Farcry 5
Cheers, I like Far Cry 5, I'll have to give that DLC a play
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Arguably so…
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Oh. I had no idea… I thought we called it a draw, took our ball and went home. I was talking about the psychological efforts… obviously.
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Jeez. Sarcasm… sometimes I feel like the /s isn’t needed. Or really shouldn’t be. Since south Vietnam doesn’t exist…
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I don’t know what you’re talking about at this point. Is this a “communism good” thing? Seems like an equally well constructed thought to me Jane.. is that you?
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i woulda been smoking reefer out my shotgun loling
She sounds hot.
Hitting a little too close to home there Hanoi Hannah.
Ah yes, I remember Higurashi No Naku Koro Ni showcasing this tactic: https://youtu.be/Bw6tKKEnFjo?feature=shared
What was the song the CIA kept blasting into Noriega’s compound? I know it was Baby Shark.
Sure takes one to know one
Pretty fucked up. Imagine a superpower greater than the USA invades us because they don't agree with our economic system domestically and want our mineral resources. We defend ourselves with War and the enemy superpower starts projecting Ghost like something from Project Blue Beam all around. Or some event where Jesus returns and needs everyone to kill themselves or something.
Where’s the lie ?
“You cannot win this war” Well, you can’t call her a liar.
Had to go through torture like this in S.E.R.E school. Many days locked in a very small box with shit like this blasting all around you 24/7. I often still have random moments where i hear that place That was 20yrs ago. And it was training. A very effective training but still just a simulation. I cant imagine a day in the shoes of the men who were exposed to the real deal for years. Those voices and sounds in thier head are probably as loud today as they were then
Napalm sticks to kids...
Based
she was not wrong
Isn't Vietnam communist? Wouldn't that mean the Americans are the ones with the belief in an afterlife? I thought communist countries didn't really have much religion.
There was a clash between religions and the communist's materialism in Vietnam. Short story, the government gave up 😆
There was a ton of traditional Buddhism and similar beliefs in Vietnam during the era (despite nationalist sentiment ). Also, I was referring to specific beliefs about non-religious, or a total lack of, burials which would result in a “wandering soul” unable to move on, which listening to the recording you can tell they exploit very directly. Great question though. And - yes. American religious culture is uber stupid. That also.
They reference this is MASH
They don't reference THIS. This is the Vietnam War. Which the U.S. wasn't involved in yet during the Korean War.
I hate to um actually you but MASH was made (partially) during the Vietnam war and you can see a lot of that reflected in the themes of the show. MASH may have been set in Korea but it was very heavy handed in its relatability to the Vietnam war and the anti war proponents.
Sure. That doesn't mean that the characters in M\*A\*S\*H were time travelers who could thus make reference to a war that'd start in the future. There may very well have been references to Tokyo Rose or some similar kind of North Korean/Chinese psy-op radio station/speaker thing.
Correct, same tactic was used in both wars.
The same tactic was referenced in MASH even though different war.
No they didn't. MASH used Seoul City Sue who North Korea based on Axis Sally.
technically correct. the best kind.
Tucker’s inspiration
That's such bullshit.
What is Reddit on about? This is the only comment not praising the propaganda, and it gets downvoted. It's propaganda. It's valid to call it bullshit even if it's against the U.S.
Thanks. But don't need any defending from these gullible douches. I've been told my whole life how great our country is and it is. But what i didn't learn until now was how "Evil" the USA is. Our government is out of control. We can't stop sticking our noses in every other country's business and elections.