She's not saying you have to prove yourself - dude this is the quickest way to lose your wife and there's a ton of info on this right now. Read my last sentence.
When women feel like they are carrying all of the household duties plus working, taking care of the children, school stuff, planning bday parties, maintaining social connections, laundry, folding towels, cooking, scheduling doctor visits, clean the fridge, windex the mirrors whatever fluffing the effing throw pillows on the couch after swiffering the ceiling fan etc and they don't feel like they're partner is putting in a fair contribution they lose attraction because resentment is setting in.
I think what she is saying is that she wishes you could recognize on your own what she does and lend a hand without her asking. That working then coming home and relaxing is not going cut it because it takes two people to fully contribute to maintain the household as well.
My advice would be pay close attention and literally take notes on everything she does - like just sit back and watch and then clean a room an entire room without her even having to ask.
I'd be heading to the store right now buying some flowers cleaning a room and changing a diaper - too late when you're sitting in front of a divorce lawyer.
OMG exactly this.
OP, it is not sexy if your wife views you as another child to take care of. She wants a partner. A competent, fully adult MAN who has his shit together and applies all of his problem solving and initiative and competence he has a work to being a team player and equal partner at home.
Doing your fair share of the work at home won’t necessarily get her horny or be a “gas” for her libido, but it will definitely remove a “brake” she has around sex which is she has resentment. It is also the only responsible thing for you to do as a partner in your marriage.
Kids are a 24/7/365 job. You don’t get to clock out of your 9-5 and not clock in for the home shift. Your wife doesn’t get to clock out. You both need to share the 5-9 shift together.
Consider getting the Fair Play book and cards and go over it together with your wife. It will probably be very illuminating for you.
Consider also getting Come As You Are to better understand “gas” and “brakes” for desire.
I have never been told I don't do enough. In fact, my wife has even said she knows I do more than my fair share. We are well into a multi year DB and I am acutely aware that choreplay doesn't work. Not doing your fair share, though, is a great way to make her LL4U.
With that said I haven't and won't change the amount of things I do around the house because it has nothing to do with the DB. It is part of being an adult.
You will know if she is right and you don't do enough, and if so, be an adult and do your share. If you already are, then you know this is just the first step in the moving goal posts.
Here’s the perspective of a HLW.
She’s asking you to contribute more or balance the household work. Feeling overwhelmed kills the libido or turns her LL4U.
I’m a HLW who works full time. Also I carry the majority of the childrearing and household responsibilities. This definitely impacts my attraction to him. Not that he’s lazy per se. He works full time and does a bit around the house. But it’s not enough. I have talked about this for years. So at this point, I figure he’s not interested changing. Could build a house from the bricks of resentment.
Wife said the same thing . So I helped with those things . Then she switched to something else , and so on and so on.
They always find “another reason “ not to .
It’s like a dam scavenger hunt where one thing leads to the next , except this hunt never ends until you die .
Yep, mine played this game until I was doing 95% of the house work and she still complained about something. I laughed out loud and told her the gig was up…I had made a bet with myself that it was all just bullshit and she just proved it. So, we are going back to status quo. I do about 30% of the internal stuff and 95% of the external stuff which constitutes many many more hours of household chores than she has. I don’t really know what changed but she has largely accepted the division of responsibilities although sex and intimacy isn’t quite where I’d like it to be it’s hard to complain too bitterly with once a week and plenty of good feeling and cuddling.
A little more detail needed. I take it she’s a SAHM, with a little one under 2? What is the full situation?
How much of the housework/child work do you do now?
There in lies an answer.
And as another mentioned already, choreplay rarely works.
I’ll say this—— and I don’t know if it pertains to your situation or not— just something to think of in general. There is nothing more unattractive to me (and other women) then having to “mother” your partner. If I’m paying the bills, doing all the chores, washing your laundry, and turning off the TV behind you…. I’m your mother and I don’t want to have sex with someone I’m mothering.
Again, I am not saying this is the situation for you— but I think it’s something that some men (and probably women) need to reflect on.
If you don’t help around the house and don’t actively give her breathing space from doing everything with the child then yes she is telling the truth.
Just because you work full time doesn’t mean you’re entitled to do jackshit once you’re home. If you make her feel like a single mum why would you get the benefits of a partner?..
My partner WFH full-time , I’m currently a SAHM while we figure out what’s best for baby. He is without a doubt the most hands on dad I’ve ever seen.. A gap in his schedule? You best believe he’s coming playing with his baby or telling me to go take a shower or making me some food so he knows I’m eating properly. I haven’t had a chance to clean up from baby’s breakfast or dinner? He’ll be in the kitchen doing it while he’s got a minute.
If I ever say “I feel like I’m not doing enough when he’s doing so much and working.” His response is “But you are doing enough, you’re with baby 24 hours a day. You go without sleep when baby has bad nights, you leave your cups of tea to go cold because you prioritise baby.” Never ever would he say I’m not helping out with chores or the baby because you don’t work and we definitely don’t have a DB.
Edit: spelling*
HLM. I do a ton of stuff with the kids including their entire morning routine all by myself and school dropoff. For YEARS. Plus house chores, plus full-time job.
Dude, sometimes it just doesn't matter how much or how little we do.
They want us, or they don't want us. I've seen a hundred stories of slacker HLs and servant HLs, and everything in between here.
Maybe I should try out that Mating in Captivity book I keep hearing about. I already crushed Mr Nice Guy.
Or ya know, I could just fucking leave 😂
There’s years of examples of this kind of situation and typically increasing chores just doesn’t work.
That’s said it might be good to change your overall approach. Ask her what’s on her list of things to get done for the coming week for the family/house. There are probably things on there beyond the standard household chores. Then go tackle some of them that week. If nothing else she’ll take notice and be impressed - and probably feel like you’re starting to take your share of the mental load.
Apart from that maybe walk around with purpose and confidence.
Wishing you the best
From what you wrote in your post, it does sound like regardless of intimacy or lack thereof, you may not be contributing equally to the home. In most situations, if you work full time and your partner doesn’t they should handle a larger percentage of household work but definitely not all of it especially if a young child is involved and even more so if that child is still an infant.
Now that being said, taking some/most/all of the burden of the home off the LL partner’s shoulders rarely works out for a several reasons. I’ll be explaining below in detail why household tasks in my opinion, should not be part of the intimacy conversation and should be separated from it despite the topic being used by many LL partners as a defining reason for low intimacy.
You’re unfortunately in a bit of a catch 22 situation. Your LL partner is claiming that intimacy is off the table due to the stress of the home. They are likely being truthful but if you start helping with the home, the next response will be something along the lines of “you shouldn’t expect sex for helping around the house”.
Based on the above, let’s dive into the actual circular logic or different options available so you can see why the HL partner needs to separate the concept of the home away from intimacy even though the LL is setting this standard. I’m high libido myself and it took me a long time to mentally sort this one and put it together.
If you start helping around the home more one of three outcomes will probably start to happen:
1) Your spouse will recognize your increased efforts and just like they told you, the extra household help has now magically increased their libido and intimacy starts back up again or conversely their libido stays the same but they feel obligated to provide “duty sex” in exchange. Even though one is worse than the other, either way, it sets up a transactional nature to the relationship. I think what most HLs desire is to feel passion from their partner and to feel wanted by them despite the challenges in their lives. So even if the increased assistance with chores is “successful” I think long term it can make a HL partner bitter to the fact that they only feel worthy of intimacy when they have fulfilled actions the LL partner has deemed worthy of providing intimacy for.
2) 2nd response: Your spouse may recognize your increased efforts around the home and despite telling you this would fix things, they may start finding new reasons to continue the deadbedroom and/or start saying things like “helping around the house doesn’t entitle you to sex” or some variation of this. Basically, it’s a broken loop where they give you a reason why you’re not having intimacy but resolving that reason does not entitle you to intimacy. In this situation, a lot of HL partners who take on more household burden may notice their LL partners using the additional time and bandwidth to be more on their phones, watching shows, spending time outside the home, etc. Basically, it very rarely translates to more intimate time together for the two of you. HL partners who have attempted the above and been met with this result may start to become bitter and feel stuck at their inability to fix the situation as the goal post continues to be moved and their LL partner shows indifference at the efforts being made.
3) You start doing everything right and your partner confides to you that you are amazing and ticking all the boxes but just does not want intimacy. This may be a case of your partner being LL4U potentially due to the length of the relationship, changes they’ve experienced as an individual, etc. The LL may not know this is the core issue and the LL may attribute their LL4U to other factors but it’s a fundamental issue that is outside your control regardless of the actions you take. Super sucky situation to be in but I think it is quite common with individuals who are just more LL to begin with and attempt to enter LTRs.
In closing, you should help around the home more for the sake of being an equal partner but do not do so with the expectation it will fix anything intimacy wise since as I explained above, it probably won’t and that expectation not being met could make you more bitter in the long run. I’d look at helping more around the home in the meantime but the intimacy issues will probably require different conversations, methods and actions to address assuming your spouse is even willing to put the work in.
I'm curious as to why it took you bringing up intimacy for her to bring up household chores.
If she has had a problem with you not pulling your weight, why hasn't she said something up until now?
Make sure you're doing your share but also make sure that you both write down and revisit the goals you set for yourself on a regular basis, like once every two weeks. Keep a journal of what you do, especially the things that you do without being asked - mental load is a thing.
You don't want to get to six months from here and have the same conversation only to find the goalposts have moved. They probably will, but you'll have a complete record of what was agreed to and how you fulfilled that agreement.
And when you get the new goals in six months say, "Sorry, not accepting that this time. I did what was asked. You have the lighter load."
From the other comments, it looks like she has brought it up several times unrelated to sex. OP just thinks she's "more mature" and that's why he doesn't contribute as much as her. Sounds like the goalpost has been in the same spot for a while, at least regarding her complaints about him doing chores and taking initiative on his own.
Her other point was about how she takes on 90% of the mental load for everything and that I leave it up to her to sort everything out, and she thinks I prefer this because it gives me less responsibilities to worry about. She is undoubtedly more mature than me, has more life experience and is a much better planner than me, hence why I “leave it up to her”.
We’ve had “talks” like this in the past and when emotions are settled, the main point she ends up making is that I need to grow up
Yes it sounds like you do need to grow up.
It is unfair to leave the mental load to her. You will get better with practice and effort.
Get the Fair Play book and cards and go over all of the life chores and mental labor in your household, and split everything up fairly. You will most likely need to take on a much larger share than you currently are. And you need to *own* it—from remembering, scheduling, planning, executing.
She “loves you but isn’t in love with you” means you’re a friend or roommate and the amount of chores won’t change that. Move out and stay with friends or family. Rebuild your self esteem. There’s no reason to stay with someone who isn’t in love with you.
Unfortunatelly, it's just an excuse and you are being strung along as a roommate. Sorry, but you are done. You are too good to leave, and too bad to stay.
It may make things less tense but the bedroom thing …it’s over. I’m not in love with you is code for i don’t have desire for you. Chores don’t create desire . It might create appreciation or contentment but desire? Nope
You can do more of you want and see of your relationship may improve but if you think more chores = more sex you are likely to be very disappointed.
Just remember when your relationship was new and you were having the pay sex you ever had you probably weren’t doing a single dishes or washing any clothes . She didn’t desire you for your stellar ironing skills.
She is definitely telling the truth, if things used to be good in this department then something has happened to turn her off. Sex is mental for women a lot of the time. We’re super attracted to our partners if they tick other boxes and make us feel loved and valued. Try helping out more, give it a month or two for her to see the change is long lasting, and I bet things will change. And don’t ask her what she wants you to do. Take initiative. Good luck ☺️
She's not saying you have to prove yourself - dude this is the quickest way to lose your wife and there's a ton of info on this right now. Read my last sentence. When women feel like they are carrying all of the household duties plus working, taking care of the children, school stuff, planning bday parties, maintaining social connections, laundry, folding towels, cooking, scheduling doctor visits, clean the fridge, windex the mirrors whatever fluffing the effing throw pillows on the couch after swiffering the ceiling fan etc and they don't feel like they're partner is putting in a fair contribution they lose attraction because resentment is setting in. I think what she is saying is that she wishes you could recognize on your own what she does and lend a hand without her asking. That working then coming home and relaxing is not going cut it because it takes two people to fully contribute to maintain the household as well. My advice would be pay close attention and literally take notes on everything she does - like just sit back and watch and then clean a room an entire room without her even having to ask. I'd be heading to the store right now buying some flowers cleaning a room and changing a diaper - too late when you're sitting in front of a divorce lawyer.
OMG exactly this. OP, it is not sexy if your wife views you as another child to take care of. She wants a partner. A competent, fully adult MAN who has his shit together and applies all of his problem solving and initiative and competence he has a work to being a team player and equal partner at home. Doing your fair share of the work at home won’t necessarily get her horny or be a “gas” for her libido, but it will definitely remove a “brake” she has around sex which is she has resentment. It is also the only responsible thing for you to do as a partner in your marriage. Kids are a 24/7/365 job. You don’t get to clock out of your 9-5 and not clock in for the home shift. Your wife doesn’t get to clock out. You both need to share the 5-9 shift together. Consider getting the Fair Play book and cards and go over it together with your wife. It will probably be very illuminating for you. Consider also getting Come As You Are to better understand “gas” and “brakes” for desire.
I have never been told I don't do enough. In fact, my wife has even said she knows I do more than my fair share. We are well into a multi year DB and I am acutely aware that choreplay doesn't work. Not doing your fair share, though, is a great way to make her LL4U. With that said I haven't and won't change the amount of things I do around the house because it has nothing to do with the DB. It is part of being an adult. You will know if she is right and you don't do enough, and if so, be an adult and do your share. If you already are, then you know this is just the first step in the moving goal posts.
Here’s the perspective of a HLW. She’s asking you to contribute more or balance the household work. Feeling overwhelmed kills the libido or turns her LL4U. I’m a HLW who works full time. Also I carry the majority of the childrearing and household responsibilities. This definitely impacts my attraction to him. Not that he’s lazy per se. He works full time and does a bit around the house. But it’s not enough. I have talked about this for years. So at this point, I figure he’s not interested changing. Could build a house from the bricks of resentment.
Wife said the same thing . So I helped with those things . Then she switched to something else , and so on and so on. They always find “another reason “ not to . It’s like a dam scavenger hunt where one thing leads to the next , except this hunt never ends until you die .
Yep, mine played this game until I was doing 95% of the house work and she still complained about something. I laughed out loud and told her the gig was up…I had made a bet with myself that it was all just bullshit and she just proved it. So, we are going back to status quo. I do about 30% of the internal stuff and 95% of the external stuff which constitutes many many more hours of household chores than she has. I don’t really know what changed but she has largely accepted the division of responsibilities although sex and intimacy isn’t quite where I’d like it to be it’s hard to complain too bitterly with once a week and plenty of good feeling and cuddling.
Because she knew she was wrong for taking advantage and you called her out
A little more detail needed. I take it she’s a SAHM, with a little one under 2? What is the full situation? How much of the housework/child work do you do now? There in lies an answer. And as another mentioned already, choreplay rarely works.
I’ll say this—— and I don’t know if it pertains to your situation or not— just something to think of in general. There is nothing more unattractive to me (and other women) then having to “mother” your partner. If I’m paying the bills, doing all the chores, washing your laundry, and turning off the TV behind you…. I’m your mother and I don’t want to have sex with someone I’m mothering. Again, I am not saying this is the situation for you— but I think it’s something that some men (and probably women) need to reflect on.
If you don’t help around the house and don’t actively give her breathing space from doing everything with the child then yes she is telling the truth. Just because you work full time doesn’t mean you’re entitled to do jackshit once you’re home. If you make her feel like a single mum why would you get the benefits of a partner?.. My partner WFH full-time , I’m currently a SAHM while we figure out what’s best for baby. He is without a doubt the most hands on dad I’ve ever seen.. A gap in his schedule? You best believe he’s coming playing with his baby or telling me to go take a shower or making me some food so he knows I’m eating properly. I haven’t had a chance to clean up from baby’s breakfast or dinner? He’ll be in the kitchen doing it while he’s got a minute. If I ever say “I feel like I’m not doing enough when he’s doing so much and working.” His response is “But you are doing enough, you’re with baby 24 hours a day. You go without sleep when baby has bad nights, you leave your cups of tea to go cold because you prioritise baby.” Never ever would he say I’m not helping out with chores or the baby because you don’t work and we definitely don’t have a DB. Edit: spelling*
HLM. I do a ton of stuff with the kids including their entire morning routine all by myself and school dropoff. For YEARS. Plus house chores, plus full-time job. Dude, sometimes it just doesn't matter how much or how little we do. They want us, or they don't want us. I've seen a hundred stories of slacker HLs and servant HLs, and everything in between here. Maybe I should try out that Mating in Captivity book I keep hearing about. I already crushed Mr Nice Guy. Or ya know, I could just fucking leave 😂
Same boat. DB for me started before kids.
No one knows if she’s telling the truth or not. Choreplay does not work, though. Do your part, and if you are, well, then you know your answer
Doesn’t sound like chore play.
Agree.
Good thing the next three words, literally, are *DO YOUR PART*
There’s years of examples of this kind of situation and typically increasing chores just doesn’t work. That’s said it might be good to change your overall approach. Ask her what’s on her list of things to get done for the coming week for the family/house. There are probably things on there beyond the standard household chores. Then go tackle some of them that week. If nothing else she’ll take notice and be impressed - and probably feel like you’re starting to take your share of the mental load. Apart from that maybe walk around with purpose and confidence. Wishing you the best
Why don’t you try doing what you think is your fair share and see if anything improves??
From what you wrote in your post, it does sound like regardless of intimacy or lack thereof, you may not be contributing equally to the home. In most situations, if you work full time and your partner doesn’t they should handle a larger percentage of household work but definitely not all of it especially if a young child is involved and even more so if that child is still an infant. Now that being said, taking some/most/all of the burden of the home off the LL partner’s shoulders rarely works out for a several reasons. I’ll be explaining below in detail why household tasks in my opinion, should not be part of the intimacy conversation and should be separated from it despite the topic being used by many LL partners as a defining reason for low intimacy. You’re unfortunately in a bit of a catch 22 situation. Your LL partner is claiming that intimacy is off the table due to the stress of the home. They are likely being truthful but if you start helping with the home, the next response will be something along the lines of “you shouldn’t expect sex for helping around the house”. Based on the above, let’s dive into the actual circular logic or different options available so you can see why the HL partner needs to separate the concept of the home away from intimacy even though the LL is setting this standard. I’m high libido myself and it took me a long time to mentally sort this one and put it together. If you start helping around the home more one of three outcomes will probably start to happen: 1) Your spouse will recognize your increased efforts and just like they told you, the extra household help has now magically increased their libido and intimacy starts back up again or conversely their libido stays the same but they feel obligated to provide “duty sex” in exchange. Even though one is worse than the other, either way, it sets up a transactional nature to the relationship. I think what most HLs desire is to feel passion from their partner and to feel wanted by them despite the challenges in their lives. So even if the increased assistance with chores is “successful” I think long term it can make a HL partner bitter to the fact that they only feel worthy of intimacy when they have fulfilled actions the LL partner has deemed worthy of providing intimacy for. 2) 2nd response: Your spouse may recognize your increased efforts around the home and despite telling you this would fix things, they may start finding new reasons to continue the deadbedroom and/or start saying things like “helping around the house doesn’t entitle you to sex” or some variation of this. Basically, it’s a broken loop where they give you a reason why you’re not having intimacy but resolving that reason does not entitle you to intimacy. In this situation, a lot of HL partners who take on more household burden may notice their LL partners using the additional time and bandwidth to be more on their phones, watching shows, spending time outside the home, etc. Basically, it very rarely translates to more intimate time together for the two of you. HL partners who have attempted the above and been met with this result may start to become bitter and feel stuck at their inability to fix the situation as the goal post continues to be moved and their LL partner shows indifference at the efforts being made. 3) You start doing everything right and your partner confides to you that you are amazing and ticking all the boxes but just does not want intimacy. This may be a case of your partner being LL4U potentially due to the length of the relationship, changes they’ve experienced as an individual, etc. The LL may not know this is the core issue and the LL may attribute their LL4U to other factors but it’s a fundamental issue that is outside your control regardless of the actions you take. Super sucky situation to be in but I think it is quite common with individuals who are just more LL to begin with and attempt to enter LTRs. In closing, you should help around the home more for the sake of being an equal partner but do not do so with the expectation it will fix anything intimacy wise since as I explained above, it probably won’t and that expectation not being met could make you more bitter in the long run. I’d look at helping more around the home in the meantime but the intimacy issues will probably require different conversations, methods and actions to address assuming your spouse is even willing to put the work in.
Ask her what more you can do to help her with all of the mental work she does. Then do it without complaint or expectations.
I'm curious as to why it took you bringing up intimacy for her to bring up household chores. If she has had a problem with you not pulling your weight, why hasn't she said something up until now? Make sure you're doing your share but also make sure that you both write down and revisit the goals you set for yourself on a regular basis, like once every two weeks. Keep a journal of what you do, especially the things that you do without being asked - mental load is a thing. You don't want to get to six months from here and have the same conversation only to find the goalposts have moved. They probably will, but you'll have a complete record of what was agreed to and how you fulfilled that agreement. And when you get the new goals in six months say, "Sorry, not accepting that this time. I did what was asked. You have the lighter load."
From the other comments, it looks like she has brought it up several times unrelated to sex. OP just thinks she's "more mature" and that's why he doesn't contribute as much as her. Sounds like the goalpost has been in the same spot for a while, at least regarding her complaints about him doing chores and taking initiative on his own.
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Her other point was about how she takes on 90% of the mental load for everything and that I leave it up to her to sort everything out, and she thinks I prefer this because it gives me less responsibilities to worry about. She is undoubtedly more mature than me, has more life experience and is a much better planner than me, hence why I “leave it up to her”. We’ve had “talks” like this in the past and when emotions are settled, the main point she ends up making is that I need to grow up
Yes it sounds like you do need to grow up. It is unfair to leave the mental load to her. You will get better with practice and effort. Get the Fair Play book and cards and go over all of the life chores and mental labor in your household, and split everything up fairly. You will most likely need to take on a much larger share than you currently are. And you need to *own* it—from remembering, scheduling, planning, executing.
Thank you, hearing it from somebody other than my partner makes it sound more true rather than an excuse
She “loves you but isn’t in love with you” means you’re a friend or roommate and the amount of chores won’t change that. Move out and stay with friends or family. Rebuild your self esteem. There’s no reason to stay with someone who isn’t in love with you.
Unfortunatelly, it's just an excuse and you are being strung along as a roommate. Sorry, but you are done. You are too good to leave, and too bad to stay.
It may make things less tense but the bedroom thing …it’s over. I’m not in love with you is code for i don’t have desire for you. Chores don’t create desire . It might create appreciation or contentment but desire? Nope You can do more of you want and see of your relationship may improve but if you think more chores = more sex you are likely to be very disappointed. Just remember when your relationship was new and you were having the pay sex you ever had you probably weren’t doing a single dishes or washing any clothes . She didn’t desire you for your stellar ironing skills.
Surely the easiest thing to do here is would be to do more around the house
She is definitely telling the truth, if things used to be good in this department then something has happened to turn her off. Sex is mental for women a lot of the time. We’re super attracted to our partners if they tick other boxes and make us feel loved and valued. Try helping out more, give it a month or two for her to see the change is long lasting, and I bet things will change. And don’t ask her what she wants you to do. Take initiative. Good luck ☺️
Yeah I lack initiative, that’s another big factor and she hates having to tell me what to do, I just need to grow balls