Yup 1000%. My entire self esteem died because I feel so unloved and unwanted. I'm a very physical person, always have been and it definitely doesn't need to be just sex, heck sex isn't the best thing anyway, I love the intimacy. Intimacy is what I miss most. We've actually been having sex lately, like past couple of weeks?? He has gotten on T but the intimacy still lacks. I need more than a poke.. ah well. So yes this statement 1000%
Would be thrilled with kisses, massages, (good God could I use one), even a willingness to get me to climax..
Same here. I'm a female with HL & the hubs is LL and it hurts that he wont even touch me. 3 whole years and its lonely too. I've thought about just giving up on us and get divorced. It would be different if he would try to get help & would just touch me but he wont.
I know exactly how you feel. I compliment him on how good he looks in different outfits and what a sexy butt he has. I tell him I love the cologne he's wearing & it smells so good. We don't have kids together so thats not a problem. I even brag on his looks in front of my family & the very few friends I have. I'm all the time suggesting we go places or do things together but he makes up excuses to keep from doing it. Now, he was born with Crohns disease & i understand its a bad stomach disease but he's on meds for that & they help him. Well when sex stopped for us 3-4 yrs ago, he used his Crohns as an excuse. His belly hurt.i got so hurt from being rejected so much that I stopped initiating sex. Then I sat him down one day, crying, and asked him what was wrong because I just knew it was me. I gained a little weight & he wasn't attracted to me anymore but he said he believes he has ED. So I talked him into going to our doctor, alone, and talking to him. They put him on Viagra. Things were almost back to normal then it stopped again & he said they wasn't working for him. That was almost 4 years ago and I've been trying to get him to talk to our doc and see if there's something else he could do or take. He hasn't touched me in almost 4 years now. I get a peak on the lips if on of us is leaving the house without the other & at night before bed. No real intimate kiss, no touching me at all, no holding hands & if I put my arm around him at night when he's asleep, he moves my arm. It hurts so bad & I'm so lonely I just don't know what to do anymore. So I understand where you're coming from my friend.
DB-friend... can you have your partner look into low-T? I know, I know... so many peeps jump to this conclusion with male performance issues, but there really is a link with Crohn's and low-T... many a study on this... worth a discussion with the dr.
Source: besties partner and their battle with his Crohn's.
Edit: spelling.
Thank you so much. I will surely get him to talk to his doctor about it. I'm willing to try anything at this point because if he don't st leat try then I can't take anymore. Thank you so much.
Thats how he was making me feel that he was attracted to me anymore because of a little weight gain then he flat out told me that he believes he has ED so I told him that he needs to go talk to out doctor. I didn't think the Viagra would change how he felt about me but if it worked then maybe it would give him his confidence back & he would stop being ashamed & show me more love & affection. And you're not prodding at all. If I can help someone else then I will try my best. You can message me anytime you want to.
It’s also partly society’s fault that men are expected to be stoic and all the stupid fairytales enforce that. It’s truly unfair that all that is ingrained in us at early childhood story time phase when we are impressionable. And it’s no one’s fault, our parents, grandparents, etc. all did the best they could and were apart of the pattern like us.
Real humans with real emotions and real perspectives are so much more interesting. I think as each new generation comes up we break some of that useless patterning that is sometimes unintentionally reinforced by tradition. At least I hope we will.
Yes. That would go a LONG way towards showing you still care and aren't simply treating it as a non issue. There's a big difference between not having sexual intercourse and withholding affection all together.
I'm kinda in this situation right now. My partner likes physical affection, especially cuddling. But we don't have a sex life (including no oral, no sexual touching). I do feel wanted and I feel emotionally intimate, but I still miss sexual intimacy. I'm overall happy in the relationship but it does bring me down sometimes.
For me, the type of sex doesn't really matter (e.g. oral vs. intercourse), what's more important is that we both enjoy it and that's what I miss.
Yes, that's my situation too. I said pretty much what you wrote to him yesterday. He asked me "so is sex equal to love for you? Do you not feel loved if we're not having sex? What do you say to that? Well yeah, I said what you said. Reminded him how good sex feels and I could see that part of his brain light up briefly as he thought about it. Wish it'd light up more often and for longer but I think ED has really messed with his confidence
Yes, that's exactly what I've just been realising re the mental blocks. We've just decided to try therapy too as I think there are things he wants to say but feels too vulnerable without a therapist present.
One block is obviously the ED although recently he's been able to get and stay hard a few times without Viagra which was great for his confidence.
We've not been able to explore the porn issue as this makes him uncomfortable but it needs to come out and be more understood. I realised yesterday that all his single years using porn led him to develop a possibly false sexual identity or maybe he was virtually living out fantasies that felt too dark or extreme to share with a real partner, I just don't know. But there seems to be a huge gap between who he sees himself to be (gentle and quite vanilla in bed - his words) and the kind of porn he was addicted to..
Yes that would make all the difference. It is not the lack of sexual intercourse. It is the lack of affection, the lack of emotional intimacy. The being ignored for a phone and a TV that makes it so bad. If those things were present I would still feel loved and cared for. I would feel appreciated for the effort I put into working for money and at home. But it is not the case in my marriage. I am told I am needy for wanting those things. I have not had a kiss other than a peck in years. As long as I am providing for her lifestyle, for her girls trips, and for her kids from her first marriage then she has no other need of me and shows it.
Things would be so much better for me if she were to offer all or any of that. It's not just the sex I want. It's the closeness and intimacy I crave. The sex to me is a bonus. I love getting a bonus as much as anyone but I really need thentouch and feel stuff more.
My partner has been doing a lot more touchy feely stuff lately. But after four years and still not really interested in me physically, it’s kinda hurtful. It feels like he’s doing it to placate me. Idk I just want to be wanted and it doesn’t have that spark. It reads like a chore. He’s not doing it to make me feel good cause he wants me to… or to even get some satisfaction out of it. It’s cause he wants to get out of having to do something else. It just feels hollow to me. Of course we don’t communicate, like at all. So maybe it’s that I just don’t trust him like I should anymore. I think if it had been like that from the beginning I would’ve been a lot less depressed. It’s just now when he tries I flinch cause it doesn’t feel right. 🤷♀️
If there were at least some effort at maintaining oral/manual sexuality between us, that would be huge.
I love cuddling, kissing, other forms of physical affection. But teasing is really only a good thing if it sometimes builds to something. Otherwise it’s incredibly cruel in my book.
For me personally, it’s less about the sex and more about the DESIRE. I don’t want a partner who’s doing things out of some sort of duty. I want them to WANT to do these things because they can’t help themselves. As in, I need them to have an innate desire to do whatever it is that they’re doing, rather than a fear of losing me if they don’t.
I guess my question is what if they loved you and were so invested that it gave them joy to get you off. It turned them on to get you off. I think I am asking because I have a one that got away story. I am a very HLF, but after every piv with my ex-fiancé, I would get bladder or kidney infection, both of us tested for stds so it wasn’t that. I let him go partially because I knew that down the road he would resent me. I didn’t think that everything up to but not including regular piv would fulfill him… I read db now and sometimes I wonder if it could have worked so that’s what lead me to ask the question. For myself, I am HLF but I can get off without piv and I can also go without sex for long stretches if I am distracted by work or other life projects. But I still wonder if it could have worked, and also wonder if my drive, turning it on and off is an outlier. (Thank you to everyone for answering, it has been so enlightening).
Go call the person!!! When I first read your question my first thought was a proper bj/ handjob is more complicated than PIV. Attitude is 75% of the game. I also have a similar sexual style… there is a word for it that is escaping me at the moment.
I do actually think you guys could have come to a compromise satisfactory to both of you.
I guess in this particular instance I’d be 100% fine with it. I mean, I’d still miss being “inside” my partner and would likely want to pursue anal sex as a POSSIBLE solution to that particular problem. Each couple has their own requirements and limits I guess.
It would be interesting for you to try PiV with a female condom and see if that was effective at keeping bacteria from traveling up your ureter and giving you a bladder or kidney infection.
A lot of people have never even seen one of these in real-life. The reason I think it might help you is there is an external ring that rests at the opening of the vagina, which is large enough that I think it would offer protection to your ureter, and also stay in place during PiV.
https://www.plannedparenthood.org/learn/birth-control/internal-condom
I also wonder if you only had rear-entry sex, like doggystyle, where you got the PiV, but there was not a pubic bone pushing against your ureter would allow you to have PiV without infections.
Yes, I think that this would make a world of difference.
Can't say if over time we wouldn't go back to the same situation we are now, but it would be a considerable improvement. I guess that at this stage, more than sex, it is the feeling of affection and feeling wanted that is missing.
I don't question for a second that my partner loves me... but just having rare demonstrations of affection (physical or of any other kind), just leads to increase frustration :\\
That’s all I would want. I would also take in to account why they felt this way and if it was trauma I would not even try to get them to this point. I would try and broach that subject with her as much as she would be ok with and encourage professional help. Lovingness is all that I want from a relationship. The fact that she wanted to do those things despite not being able to engage is enough. I still wouldn’t take advantage of it beyond normal relationship stuff.
I wasn’t touched. If I was it was purely play fighting. I took it while I could. My children were affectionate. Hugs all around. However my ex didn’t like making out or kissing with actual tongue. He pursed his lips together into a tight butthole-like state. If I so much as stuck my tongue past his lips, it was met with incisors, God forbid.
Before our marriage we made out. Had sex almost daily. In the beginning of our marriage we had straight sex. No making out. No foreplay (it’s not like he didn’t know how as he watched porn constantly. Good old porn addiction at it’s finest).
I gave him head when I had my period. He started giving me some oral happiness after a couple of years. Seriously.
Let me just say that after the divorce and my finding a younger boyfriend, I’m now in heaven. I had to wait all these years just to know it’s not me. It was them.
“He pursed his lips together into a tight butthole-like state.”
The imagery you created in my mind. LOL Thanks needed that. You should be a writer. I am glad you found your happily ever after. 🌹
So spot on. My love language is touch. I would assume that ranks high for most HLs. It doesn't have to be sex, sex is the end state. Sexy glances, hand holding, hugging, cuddling, kissing, caressing that's the affection. Sex is the end of the roller coaster.
It’s not the lack of PIV sex per se, it’a the conviction that the lack of physical intimacy is not an important issue, that my desire for affection is invalid, and that I’m being selfish and unreasonable.
If my wife was unable to engage in PIV sex, but recognized it as an issue and showed me physical affection in whatever way we found mutually enjoyable I wouldn’t be here.
Really, it's less about the specific acts and more about my partner's enthusiasm. Doing stuff "for me" is generous, but if I just want to get off, I can do that alone.
What I love about sexual acts with my partner is seeing how excited he gets and how much he wants me, and the mutual feelings we're creating in each other. If I could have that, but without piv sex, I'd be okay with it.
But acts that are "for me" because he's not really into it? It doesn't matter what the activity is, I'd feel kinda weird about it. Sexual desire is best when mutually invested
Speaking only as myself, I just wanted to be wanted. In my marriage, even when we had sex, more often than not it was starfish, one sided sex.
So, if we are still doing things together, happy to see each other, she rubs my sore muscles after I build her something/fix her car, talks dirty to me, desires me, and we still have HJ/BJ, I could certainly maintain that for a long time.
The reason why we didn’t have intercourse would matter. It sounds strange but in my relationships I have derived a lot of my value from being a good sexual partner, I’m happiest when I make my partner cum. Sometimes they want oral, toys, PIV, whatever it takes. I pride myself on being flexible and knowledgable enough to make her cum. If that was off the table? I would struggle with that, depending on the reason.
TLDR; yeah, I could make your scenario work for a long, long time and I would be very happy for most of it. But I would have questions and I desperately would want to return the favor.
I think I would say in personal experience with this exact type of situation, ive said often its not just the lack of sex that is frustrating as a HL male, its the lack of initiation or interest in anything. I dont want there to be a pressure to always escalate to sex but it would be nice to intimate and physical whatever that may be!
HLM here. From my perspective if my LL wife did those things, it would be amazing and I would be much happier in life with a higher self esteem for sure. In fact, I like BJs and 69 more than PIV. Heck I love just giving my wife oral and I will get her off everytime easy and fast, I would do it every day for her if she wanted it….but I also know I would still want PIV at times!!
personally that would help a lot, thing is the frequency and the emotional connection that could bring. Because yeah bjs are cool but if she does it with disdain well id rather jack off by myself. Effort goes a long way but remember to have a positive attitude.
Thanks for asking. I’d definitely feel invested and sparked in my situation if those things returned, and I also would want my partner to set expectations with me ahead of time since those things are physical motivators for me. Something like “hey, I’d love you cuddle with you and be intimate because I care about you - but we won’t go to (x) level or activity.”
For some HLs, the act of physical closeness might be too overwhelming or falsely encouraging, setting those boundaries and expectations ahead of time would be healthy for me at least.
It’ll really depend on the person, and I wish you luck.
I would be fine with the physical and emocional affection no problem :) I totally understand when he doesn’t want to have intercourse but he take care of my needs in different ways as well. Communication.
We've had the talk and I've been told that she would be more open to it if there were more intimacy, cuddling, touching, things like that. I've tried but I don't get hugs nor kisses ever, even though I used to initiate that when I'd get home. There is no cuddling at all. Shit, I don't even get hand holding. I losing a battle against a phone mainly. TV time is her half watching half listening to what is turned on and the other half is her reading or texting on her phone.
I lay on the bitter edge of the bed because if she wants touch she'll have to make a legitimate effort, I don't want to feel bad for accidentally touching her occasionally.
To answer your question, yes I think it would help but I don't get turned down, I get the "she just does it because she feels she has to" sex.
>would you feel invested and sparked by them
I absolutely would have. I would have loved that. There was a total lack of any emotional or physical connection from the LL. PIV is only one aspect of sex but not the end all of sex. Sex happens in many different ways and forms.
I could definitely live without PiV if cuddling, hugs, handholding and mutual oral were regular. I don’t think I’d be ok with just getting BJs and not reciprocating. I love going down and love connecting by giving each other mutual pleasure.
Effort and investment are 90+% of what I want. If PIV was impossible, but everything else was available, that would be awesome. Almost nothing on that list is in my world now, and it would be life-changing to have her snuggle up to me rather than laying on the couch. An enthusiastic BJ would be heaven - I asked her to stop years ago when it was obviously a chore. There’s so much fun to be had without PIV that it wouldn’t be missed if the interest was there.
If isn't the sex or sexual intricacy in general, it's the attention and that you never initiate. I always touch your first, cuddle you, kiss you, massage you, start sex, and then you reciprocate. And while you reciprocate you're playing on your phone your computer or tablet. It's like you don't want me and you're responding because you feel like you have to.
If you're being intimate with me out of duty go find someone you want to be physical with, just don't do it without telling me.
He kisses me like you'd kiss your grandma. Yeah. Anything would be an improvement at this point. It's not just a lack of *intimate* contact, it's a lack of any physical contact of any kind. I feel dejected.
HLF here, and 100%. It would still matter and be a struggle without any sex, but it would be VASTLY different and extremely easier to manage. The touch, the jokes, the connection would still be there and that’s the gist of what I miss.
Yea absolutely! I’m tired of not being looked at. I’m tired of being ignored. I’m tired of having to ask for hugs. I’m tired of feeling like I only get to have sec because I’ve wore her down too much. I don’t volunteer kisses - those only come on the rare occasion we actually do have sex. Honestly, physical intimacy of any sort is so dead between us (I should clarify - dead when to me as I have to initiate even a hug) that it doesn’t take much to improve. The thought of actually getting a blowjob (it’s been 12 years) is so fantastical I couldn’t even imagine it. I’d be thrilled with an unsolicited handjob.
And I’d feel good, loved and cared for if she just held my hand for a few minutes.
My LL hubby does a lot of kissing (no tongue), cuddles, handholding in public and massages, period. Nothing truly sexual. We do have a nightly game where we each try to get into bed first because then you can watch the other one undress (we usually sleep naked). Sleep naked but never touch.
I feel like he's more like a very good friend and roommate. I do feel hurt and it does affect my self esteem because it's just games and I know it will never go further.
(Edited to add). Wow, after reading all the posts I feel sort of lucky to get the physical attention that he gives me. I just wish it was more.
I would love it if my LLM SO took interest in wanting to do other things with me other than PIV. Right now, that kind of stuff doesn’t happen unless PIV is happening.
I suppose I should reply before reading other comments.
If I was getting only BJ and kissing, I wouldn't cheat and would be happy with my marriage.
I strongly believe that everyone's answer is personal, so it's really hard to generalize this issue
Definitely invested and sparked. There's so much more to sex than penetrating.
I have often fallen into the anxiety trap of focusing on what's missing, it's hard not to.
For most it isn't only the lack of sex, yes sex is important, but i believe it's the lack of intimacy and affection, feeling loved, wanted and desired.
Would it be perfect without sex? NO.
Would it be better tolerable with physical and emotional intimacy and affection? Yes.
This would have worked for me.
What I missed the most was feeling wanted and desired. Physical intimacy was extremely important to me and my well-being.
It would be very hard to get pst but I think I could. It would be an amazing improvement though. For me its not per say about the sex but its the feeling of being wanted and loved. So BJ’s would be a great improvement if she actually wanted to and was enthusiastic about it. Theres a major difference between a person being intimate out of duty or if they really want to and its easy to tell. So if she was enthusiastic I would like it. But I have to admit I would still feel off at times and would miss having sex.
As a HLM, the effort, empathy and non-intercourse activities would absolutely be enough for me and appreciated.
I once told my LL wife that it didn't have to be PIV intercourse to make me feel loved in that way - I would be open to many other things physically. I meant if she had any struggles with PIV that we could take that off the table. However, it didn't go as I had hoped. She took it as I still was only interested in her doing other sexual things and it actually made things worse.
Honestly, I'd be happy with it.
It would make me feel desired and it would be intimate and affectionate, which is what I really want. PIV is very nice but holding it up as the pinnacle of intimacy is, well, weird to me and not sustainable in the long run.
You wouldn't hear me complain in this case, that's for sure! But in this case, just getting part of the package - kisses, cuddles, etc. without getting to the "satisfactory" part, like a HJ, BJ - is actually worse than not getting anything at all.
That would actually be an improvement over my current situation. I already love her and plan to remain with her, but that situation would make us a stronger couple.
I would absolutely feel invested.
What hurts the most is when the LL seems to not give a F about the pain you feel and build when you’re rejected all the time. (FHL here)
I would be thrilled to feel that I actually mattered as more than the hired help ( unpaid hired help ) That's why after 16 years divorce is on the table
Blowjobs are a great sub. Along with all those other things. But many men never receive them so throwing that out there would likely give you a response that HELL YEAH! but many want something more “together” in the bed.
If my LL (soon to be ex) partner did anything more than give me a side hug, I’d probably be suspicious that she has an ulterior motive for why she’s doing it, and then I’d be in trouble.
Anyway, to give you a straight answer, I would be really excited and fulfilled by these alternatives to PIV sex!
I don’t know as it never happened. However, I need to see/feel my partner sexually aroused, I need to see/feel her coming. It doesn’t have to be from PIV but without the sexual excitement I would probably still leave (eventually).
Yes.
Also, there is more to sex than PIV. If you want to expand your thinking, I consider sex anything involving more than 1 person spending time together in the same room where genitals are being touched. BJs *are* sex, just not the only kind.
>anything but intercourse
You question seems pretty theoretical. I kindof don't believe such a relationship exists. Because I feel like the effort to genuinely meet the sexual needs of a partner with 'anything but intercourse' would put them pretty firmly into the HL category. And in my lived experience as a male with female partners, those women would rather be having PiV sex than all the frankly higher-effort sex like a blow job to completion or PiA.
I'm a daily / near-daily kindof HL. If I had a partner who wanted to be involved in some way in every ejaculation of mine with the catch being no-PiV, that would make them very well matched to me, and we wouldn't have a deadbedroom.
If my wife would hold my hand or even sit close to me on the couch it would have made a huge difference. I waited nearly 12 years for her to help me understand why. I was just kept at arms length and kept me at arms length.
It killed my self esteem.
I left in January we are still plodding through the divorce. She would rather travel and go tell her friends how terrible I am because I want to start my life over. I have met a woman who has amazing. She lost her last partner 2 years ago unexpectedly. We have formed a very close bond. We have started sleeping together and it has been amazing. We are both 52 and healthy.
The connection is amazing. I missed that so much.
We started with just cuddling. Watching tv together. It’s progressed so naturally.
I am used to being rejected. She peruses my affection and makes me feel wanted, handsome and sexual.
I’ve never been more happy in my life
It’s been really unexpected. I’ve done individual therapy and couples therapy. Shortly after we decided to
Divorce. My relationship with this person changed. Finding someone so quickly was unexpected. We are cautious and realistic.
Right now it’s once a week get together and if we can a weekend date. It’s largely cuddle and sex. I never thought I would have this sort of intimacy with another person. I
Hope you find what you need. Stop feeling invisible, start being invincible
I need intercourse for the deep level of emotional connection. I get the HJ and BJ, and I reciprocate, but I’m to the point that I’d rather not anymore.
Yes yes yes!!! I know for myself and others our LL partners will not do these things out of fear it will lead to something else, so basically not getting any intimacy or affection at all.
mine is LL and the only thing that saves us *IS* the tons of physical affection. I’m still loved and appreciated and treated wonderfully, just.. not getting my back blown out like.. ever.
No- because that’s 60% of what I have now… most of an ok relationship with an avoidant guy who just doesn’t prefer to fuck a pussy. It’s not rocket science- it’s just incompatibility.
Literally my partner just called me sexy out of the blue yesterday for no reason and I practically came right then and there. I think I’d be fine with what you’d said
Well yes, if with all this interaction there was real communication and understanding. I think blowjobs, etc, would probably address a lot of the sexual frustration but not being able to reciprocate would be concerning too. I’d really want to understand what’s going on. If you’ve lost interest in me then that’s going to be a problem and the blowjobs will just feel like you’re going through the motions.
It actually amazes me how many people on this sub think that men only want the physical contact of sex. Men have emotions and need to be love just as much as women do.
That depends entirely on the situation and the HLs mindset.
Many guys have never learned to relax and enjoy letting arousal come and go. For them, what you describe would be excruciating because it would just feel like a tease and rubbing their nose in the face that you don't desire them sexually.
Other guys would love the touch and closeness to the fullest and would be very appreciative. For them, it would be just as fulfilling as PIV if not more so.
Other guys would have a hard time not trying to escalate to PIV, and would end up feeling completely frustrated.
At the end of the day, the key is communication to figure out if it would be a pleasant thing or a source of agony for the person on the receiving end.
I’ve been single my whole life (Muslim) so I can’t say anything about dynamics of a relationship but I consider myself a HLM cuz sex is literally always on my mind (I wish I was LL to be honest).
If they offered to help in other ways such as outercourse, I would be ok with it. As long as we still have some intercourse, even if it’s little. If intimacy was ONLY outercourse I would feel sad obviously I wouldn’t blame them but I’d respectfully have to walk away
Yes, if BJ’s were part of the deal
(As stipulated) and reciprocation was not necessarily always needed, then yes that would be a good start. Still would need some PIV at some point, tho.
I was more so referring to the fact that OP included oral sex in that list. I can’t speak for everyone, but if I was personally receiving that regularly, I wouldn’t consider it a DB. Based on others posts in the sub, it’s clear they aren’t receiving oral sex either.
This would be a vast improvement. For me it’s not just about the lack of sex it’s about being ignored and made to feel unwanted.
Yup 1000%. My entire self esteem died because I feel so unloved and unwanted. I'm a very physical person, always have been and it definitely doesn't need to be just sex, heck sex isn't the best thing anyway, I love the intimacy. Intimacy is what I miss most. We've actually been having sex lately, like past couple of weeks?? He has gotten on T but the intimacy still lacks. I need more than a poke.. ah well. So yes this statement 1000% Would be thrilled with kisses, massages, (good God could I use one), even a willingness to get me to climax..
Same here. I'm a female with HL & the hubs is LL and it hurts that he wont even touch me. 3 whole years and its lonely too. I've thought about just giving up on us and get divorced. It would be different if he would try to get help & would just touch me but he wont.
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I know exactly how you feel. I compliment him on how good he looks in different outfits and what a sexy butt he has. I tell him I love the cologne he's wearing & it smells so good. We don't have kids together so thats not a problem. I even brag on his looks in front of my family & the very few friends I have. I'm all the time suggesting we go places or do things together but he makes up excuses to keep from doing it. Now, he was born with Crohns disease & i understand its a bad stomach disease but he's on meds for that & they help him. Well when sex stopped for us 3-4 yrs ago, he used his Crohns as an excuse. His belly hurt.i got so hurt from being rejected so much that I stopped initiating sex. Then I sat him down one day, crying, and asked him what was wrong because I just knew it was me. I gained a little weight & he wasn't attracted to me anymore but he said he believes he has ED. So I talked him into going to our doctor, alone, and talking to him. They put him on Viagra. Things were almost back to normal then it stopped again & he said they wasn't working for him. That was almost 4 years ago and I've been trying to get him to talk to our doc and see if there's something else he could do or take. He hasn't touched me in almost 4 years now. I get a peak on the lips if on of us is leaving the house without the other & at night before bed. No real intimate kiss, no touching me at all, no holding hands & if I put my arm around him at night when he's asleep, he moves my arm. It hurts so bad & I'm so lonely I just don't know what to do anymore. So I understand where you're coming from my friend.
DB-friend... can you have your partner look into low-T? I know, I know... so many peeps jump to this conclusion with male performance issues, but there really is a link with Crohn's and low-T... many a study on this... worth a discussion with the dr. Source: besties partner and their battle with his Crohn's. Edit: spelling.
Thank you so much. I will surely get him to talk to his doctor about it. I'm willing to try anything at this point because if he don't st leat try then I can't take anymore. Thank you so much.
Agree with the other person. Get his levels checked and try cialis. Better than viagra for sure.
Thank you
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Thats how he was making me feel that he was attracted to me anymore because of a little weight gain then he flat out told me that he believes he has ED so I told him that he needs to go talk to out doctor. I didn't think the Viagra would change how he felt about me but if it worked then maybe it would give him his confidence back & he would stop being ashamed & show me more love & affection. And you're not prodding at all. If I can help someone else then I will try my best. You can message me anytime you want to.
It’s also partly society’s fault that men are expected to be stoic and all the stupid fairytales enforce that. It’s truly unfair that all that is ingrained in us at early childhood story time phase when we are impressionable. And it’s no one’s fault, our parents, grandparents, etc. all did the best they could and were apart of the pattern like us. Real humans with real emotions and real perspectives are so much more interesting. I think as each new generation comes up we break some of that useless patterning that is sometimes unintentionally reinforced by tradition. At least I hope we will.
Yes. That would go a LONG way towards showing you still care and aren't simply treating it as a non issue. There's a big difference between not having sexual intercourse and withholding affection all together.
I'm kinda in this situation right now. My partner likes physical affection, especially cuddling. But we don't have a sex life (including no oral, no sexual touching). I do feel wanted and I feel emotionally intimate, but I still miss sexual intimacy. I'm overall happy in the relationship but it does bring me down sometimes. For me, the type of sex doesn't really matter (e.g. oral vs. intercourse), what's more important is that we both enjoy it and that's what I miss.
Yes, that's my situation too. I said pretty much what you wrote to him yesterday. He asked me "so is sex equal to love for you? Do you not feel loved if we're not having sex? What do you say to that? Well yeah, I said what you said. Reminded him how good sex feels and I could see that part of his brain light up briefly as he thought about it. Wish it'd light up more often and for longer but I think ED has really messed with his confidence
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Yes, that's exactly what I've just been realising re the mental blocks. We've just decided to try therapy too as I think there are things he wants to say but feels too vulnerable without a therapist present. One block is obviously the ED although recently he's been able to get and stay hard a few times without Viagra which was great for his confidence. We've not been able to explore the porn issue as this makes him uncomfortable but it needs to come out and be more understood. I realised yesterday that all his single years using porn led him to develop a possibly false sexual identity or maybe he was virtually living out fantasies that felt too dark or extreme to share with a real partner, I just don't know. But there seems to be a huge gap between who he sees himself to be (gentle and quite vanilla in bed - his words) and the kind of porn he was addicted to..
Yes that would make all the difference. It is not the lack of sexual intercourse. It is the lack of affection, the lack of emotional intimacy. The being ignored for a phone and a TV that makes it so bad. If those things were present I would still feel loved and cared for. I would feel appreciated for the effort I put into working for money and at home. But it is not the case in my marriage. I am told I am needy for wanting those things. I have not had a kiss other than a peck in years. As long as I am providing for her lifestyle, for her girls trips, and for her kids from her first marriage then she has no other need of me and shows it.
Things would be so much better for me if she were to offer all or any of that. It's not just the sex I want. It's the closeness and intimacy I crave. The sex to me is a bonus. I love getting a bonus as much as anyone but I really need thentouch and feel stuff more.
newly divorced to a LL male here. pretty sure we'd still be together if he compensated the lack of sex with these things you mentioned
It would be amazing if my wife did any of those things with me. I miss that more than the actual sex.
Yes. That would help. Effort = caring about the relationship
Yeah would make a difference for me The effort plus recognition that my needs are important too would mean a lot
My partner has been doing a lot more touchy feely stuff lately. But after four years and still not really interested in me physically, it’s kinda hurtful. It feels like he’s doing it to placate me. Idk I just want to be wanted and it doesn’t have that spark. It reads like a chore. He’s not doing it to make me feel good cause he wants me to… or to even get some satisfaction out of it. It’s cause he wants to get out of having to do something else. It just feels hollow to me. Of course we don’t communicate, like at all. So maybe it’s that I just don’t trust him like I should anymore. I think if it had been like that from the beginning I would’ve been a lot less depressed. It’s just now when he tries I flinch cause it doesn’t feel right. 🤷♀️
Wow, you’ve described my life perfectly.
☝️☝️☝️☝️☝️THIS!!!
If there were at least some effort at maintaining oral/manual sexuality between us, that would be huge. I love cuddling, kissing, other forms of physical affection. But teasing is really only a good thing if it sometimes builds to something. Otherwise it’s incredibly cruel in my book.
Exactly how I feel.
For me personally, it’s less about the sex and more about the DESIRE. I don’t want a partner who’s doing things out of some sort of duty. I want them to WANT to do these things because they can’t help themselves. As in, I need them to have an innate desire to do whatever it is that they’re doing, rather than a fear of losing me if they don’t.
I guess my question is what if they loved you and were so invested that it gave them joy to get you off. It turned them on to get you off. I think I am asking because I have a one that got away story. I am a very HLF, but after every piv with my ex-fiancé, I would get bladder or kidney infection, both of us tested for stds so it wasn’t that. I let him go partially because I knew that down the road he would resent me. I didn’t think that everything up to but not including regular piv would fulfill him… I read db now and sometimes I wonder if it could have worked so that’s what lead me to ask the question. For myself, I am HLF but I can get off without piv and I can also go without sex for long stretches if I am distracted by work or other life projects. But I still wonder if it could have worked, and also wonder if my drive, turning it on and off is an outlier. (Thank you to everyone for answering, it has been so enlightening).
Go call the person!!! When I first read your question my first thought was a proper bj/ handjob is more complicated than PIV. Attitude is 75% of the game. I also have a similar sexual style… there is a word for it that is escaping me at the moment. I do actually think you guys could have come to a compromise satisfactory to both of you.
OP, has this happened only with this person? It's possible you could be allergic to semen/precum, using condoms might solve your problem
Good point, I’ll look into it. Thank you.
I guess in this particular instance I’d be 100% fine with it. I mean, I’d still miss being “inside” my partner and would likely want to pursue anal sex as a POSSIBLE solution to that particular problem. Each couple has their own requirements and limits I guess.
It would be interesting for you to try PiV with a female condom and see if that was effective at keeping bacteria from traveling up your ureter and giving you a bladder or kidney infection. A lot of people have never even seen one of these in real-life. The reason I think it might help you is there is an external ring that rests at the opening of the vagina, which is large enough that I think it would offer protection to your ureter, and also stay in place during PiV. https://www.plannedparenthood.org/learn/birth-control/internal-condom I also wonder if you only had rear-entry sex, like doggystyle, where you got the PiV, but there was not a pubic bone pushing against your ureter would allow you to have PiV without infections.
Yes, I think that this would make a world of difference. Can't say if over time we wouldn't go back to the same situation we are now, but it would be a considerable improvement. I guess that at this stage, more than sex, it is the feeling of affection and feeling wanted that is missing. I don't question for a second that my partner loves me... but just having rare demonstrations of affection (physical or of any other kind), just leads to increase frustration :\\
That’s all I would want. I would also take in to account why they felt this way and if it was trauma I would not even try to get them to this point. I would try and broach that subject with her as much as she would be ok with and encourage professional help. Lovingness is all that I want from a relationship. The fact that she wanted to do those things despite not being able to engage is enough. I still wouldn’t take advantage of it beyond normal relationship stuff.
You might be badwolf2013, but you’re a good guy.
I wasn’t touched. If I was it was purely play fighting. I took it while I could. My children were affectionate. Hugs all around. However my ex didn’t like making out or kissing with actual tongue. He pursed his lips together into a tight butthole-like state. If I so much as stuck my tongue past his lips, it was met with incisors, God forbid. Before our marriage we made out. Had sex almost daily. In the beginning of our marriage we had straight sex. No making out. No foreplay (it’s not like he didn’t know how as he watched porn constantly. Good old porn addiction at it’s finest). I gave him head when I had my period. He started giving me some oral happiness after a couple of years. Seriously. Let me just say that after the divorce and my finding a younger boyfriend, I’m now in heaven. I had to wait all these years just to know it’s not me. It was them.
“He pursed his lips together into a tight butthole-like state.” The imagery you created in my mind. LOL Thanks needed that. You should be a writer. I am glad you found your happily ever after. 🌹
I am actually. 😂 But, damn! It took many years for my ex husband to tell me that he had been molested as a child. Among other issues.
So long as we weren’t trying to have children and the workarounds were born of mutual desire, I’d be quite fine with it.
So spot on. My love language is touch. I would assume that ranks high for most HLs. It doesn't have to be sex, sex is the end state. Sexy glances, hand holding, hugging, cuddling, kissing, caressing that's the affection. Sex is the end of the roller coaster.
It’s not the lack of PIV sex per se, it’a the conviction that the lack of physical intimacy is not an important issue, that my desire for affection is invalid, and that I’m being selfish and unreasonable. If my wife was unable to engage in PIV sex, but recognized it as an issue and showed me physical affection in whatever way we found mutually enjoyable I wouldn’t be here.
Really, it's less about the specific acts and more about my partner's enthusiasm. Doing stuff "for me" is generous, but if I just want to get off, I can do that alone. What I love about sexual acts with my partner is seeing how excited he gets and how much he wants me, and the mutual feelings we're creating in each other. If I could have that, but without piv sex, I'd be okay with it. But acts that are "for me" because he's not really into it? It doesn't matter what the activity is, I'd feel kinda weird about it. Sexual desire is best when mutually invested
Speaking only as myself, I just wanted to be wanted. In my marriage, even when we had sex, more often than not it was starfish, one sided sex. So, if we are still doing things together, happy to see each other, she rubs my sore muscles after I build her something/fix her car, talks dirty to me, desires me, and we still have HJ/BJ, I could certainly maintain that for a long time. The reason why we didn’t have intercourse would matter. It sounds strange but in my relationships I have derived a lot of my value from being a good sexual partner, I’m happiest when I make my partner cum. Sometimes they want oral, toys, PIV, whatever it takes. I pride myself on being flexible and knowledgable enough to make her cum. If that was off the table? I would struggle with that, depending on the reason. TLDR; yeah, I could make your scenario work for a long, long time and I would be very happy for most of it. But I would have questions and I desperately would want to return the favor.
I think I would say in personal experience with this exact type of situation, ive said often its not just the lack of sex that is frustrating as a HL male, its the lack of initiation or interest in anything. I dont want there to be a pressure to always escalate to sex but it would be nice to intimate and physical whatever that may be!
Absolutely. I craaaaved to be touch. I wanted to be wanted
I think that would help, but I would still miss(=want) sex.
This would kick ass and really make me feel cared for
HLM here. From my perspective if my LL wife did those things, it would be amazing and I would be much happier in life with a higher self esteem for sure. In fact, I like BJs and 69 more than PIV. Heck I love just giving my wife oral and I will get her off everytime easy and fast, I would do it every day for her if she wanted it….but I also know I would still want PIV at times!!
personally that would help a lot, thing is the frequency and the emotional connection that could bring. Because yeah bjs are cool but if she does it with disdain well id rather jack off by myself. Effort goes a long way but remember to have a positive attitude.
Thanks for asking. I’d definitely feel invested and sparked in my situation if those things returned, and I also would want my partner to set expectations with me ahead of time since those things are physical motivators for me. Something like “hey, I’d love you cuddle with you and be intimate because I care about you - but we won’t go to (x) level or activity.” For some HLs, the act of physical closeness might be too overwhelming or falsely encouraging, setting those boundaries and expectations ahead of time would be healthy for me at least. It’ll really depend on the person, and I wish you luck.
I would be fine with the physical and emocional affection no problem :) I totally understand when he doesn’t want to have intercourse but he take care of my needs in different ways as well. Communication.
We've had the talk and I've been told that she would be more open to it if there were more intimacy, cuddling, touching, things like that. I've tried but I don't get hugs nor kisses ever, even though I used to initiate that when I'd get home. There is no cuddling at all. Shit, I don't even get hand holding. I losing a battle against a phone mainly. TV time is her half watching half listening to what is turned on and the other half is her reading or texting on her phone. I lay on the bitter edge of the bed because if she wants touch she'll have to make a legitimate effort, I don't want to feel bad for accidentally touching her occasionally. To answer your question, yes I think it would help but I don't get turned down, I get the "she just does it because she feels she has to" sex.
>would you feel invested and sparked by them I absolutely would have. I would have loved that. There was a total lack of any emotional or physical connection from the LL. PIV is only one aspect of sex but not the end all of sex. Sex happens in many different ways and forms.
I could definitely live without PiV if cuddling, hugs, handholding and mutual oral were regular. I don’t think I’d be ok with just getting BJs and not reciprocating. I love going down and love connecting by giving each other mutual pleasure.
Effort and investment are 90+% of what I want. If PIV was impossible, but everything else was available, that would be awesome. Almost nothing on that list is in my world now, and it would be life-changing to have her snuggle up to me rather than laying on the couch. An enthusiastic BJ would be heaven - I asked her to stop years ago when it was obviously a chore. There’s so much fun to be had without PIV that it wouldn’t be missed if the interest was there.
If isn't the sex or sexual intricacy in general, it's the attention and that you never initiate. I always touch your first, cuddle you, kiss you, massage you, start sex, and then you reciprocate. And while you reciprocate you're playing on your phone your computer or tablet. It's like you don't want me and you're responding because you feel like you have to. If you're being intimate with me out of duty go find someone you want to be physical with, just don't do it without telling me.
He kisses me like you'd kiss your grandma. Yeah. Anything would be an improvement at this point. It's not just a lack of *intimate* contact, it's a lack of any physical contact of any kind. I feel dejected.
HLF here, and 100%. It would still matter and be a struggle without any sex, but it would be VASTLY different and extremely easier to manage. The touch, the jokes, the connection would still be there and that’s the gist of what I miss.
I think it’s important to note the reason.
I recently figured out that I want to feel desired more than I actually want sex so for me, yes, I would be content with this.
Yea absolutely! I’m tired of not being looked at. I’m tired of being ignored. I’m tired of having to ask for hugs. I’m tired of feeling like I only get to have sec because I’ve wore her down too much. I don’t volunteer kisses - those only come on the rare occasion we actually do have sex. Honestly, physical intimacy of any sort is so dead between us (I should clarify - dead when to me as I have to initiate even a hug) that it doesn’t take much to improve. The thought of actually getting a blowjob (it’s been 12 years) is so fantastical I couldn’t even imagine it. I’d be thrilled with an unsolicited handjob. And I’d feel good, loved and cared for if she just held my hand for a few minutes.
My husband is LL and I'm in the same boat of always initiating. It's exhausting and demoralizing
My LL hubby does a lot of kissing (no tongue), cuddles, handholding in public and massages, period. Nothing truly sexual. We do have a nightly game where we each try to get into bed first because then you can watch the other one undress (we usually sleep naked). Sleep naked but never touch. I feel like he's more like a very good friend and roommate. I do feel hurt and it does affect my self esteem because it's just games and I know it will never go further. (Edited to add). Wow, after reading all the posts I feel sort of lucky to get the physical attention that he gives me. I just wish it was more.
I would love it if my LLM SO took interest in wanting to do other things with me other than PIV. Right now, that kind of stuff doesn’t happen unless PIV is happening.
Yeah that would be fine. It’s the low self esteem and feeling unwanted that’s the killer
Yes, definitely notice and appreciate the effort
Invested and sparked for sure! Compromise is key
My SO is medically unable. If he skimps on affection and other kinds of connection our relationship suffers. Otherwise I can cope.
I suppose I should reply before reading other comments. If I was getting only BJ and kissing, I wouldn't cheat and would be happy with my marriage. I strongly believe that everyone's answer is personal, so it's really hard to generalize this issue
If it felt sincere and organic, not just a chore, then yeah, we'd be good.
Definitely invested and sparked. There's so much more to sex than penetrating. I have often fallen into the anxiety trap of focusing on what's missing, it's hard not to.
For most it isn't only the lack of sex, yes sex is important, but i believe it's the lack of intimacy and affection, feeling loved, wanted and desired. Would it be perfect without sex? NO. Would it be better tolerable with physical and emotional intimacy and affection? Yes.
This would have worked for me. What I missed the most was feeling wanted and desired. Physical intimacy was extremely important to me and my well-being.
It would be very hard to get pst but I think I could. It would be an amazing improvement though. For me its not per say about the sex but its the feeling of being wanted and loved. So BJ’s would be a great improvement if she actually wanted to and was enthusiastic about it. Theres a major difference between a person being intimate out of duty or if they really want to and its easy to tell. So if she was enthusiastic I would like it. But I have to admit I would still feel off at times and would miss having sex.
I would be thrilled with any of what you listed. It would make a world of difference.
As a HLM, the effort, empathy and non-intercourse activities would absolutely be enough for me and appreciated. I once told my LL wife that it didn't have to be PIV intercourse to make me feel loved in that way - I would be open to many other things physically. I meant if she had any struggles with PIV that we could take that off the table. However, it didn't go as I had hoped. She took it as I still was only interested in her doing other sexual things and it actually made things worse.
Honestly, I'd be happy with it. It would make me feel desired and it would be intimate and affectionate, which is what I really want. PIV is very nice but holding it up as the pinnacle of intimacy is, well, weird to me and not sustainable in the long run.
If my LL ex would have even acknowledged my sexual needs, our outcome would have been wildly different.
You wouldn't hear me complain in this case, that's for sure! But in this case, just getting part of the package - kisses, cuddles, etc. without getting to the "satisfactory" part, like a HJ, BJ - is actually worse than not getting anything at all.
I really wish my husband would just lay next to me and TOUCH ME while I masturbate but we can’t have it all, can we
That would actually be an improvement over my current situation. I already love her and plan to remain with her, but that situation would make us a stronger couple.
I would absolutely feel invested. What hurts the most is when the LL seems to not give a F about the pain you feel and build when you’re rejected all the time. (FHL here)
I'd rather not have any intimacy if there is a long term DB situation although you threw oral in there which complicates it.
Bjs? Ya’ll are getting bjs?
I would be thrilled to feel that I actually mattered as more than the hired help ( unpaid hired help ) That's why after 16 years divorce is on the table
As I've read through these replies it seems the vast majority of us would love, and indeed are painfully craving, this type of situation.
I’d be fine without intercourse with all these other things
Blowjobs are a great sub. Along with all those other things. But many men never receive them so throwing that out there would likely give you a response that HELL YEAH! but many want something more “together” in the bed.
So basically just no PIV? That's a *very* easy **yes, please**.
That’s called compromise and relationships are all about compromise
Wow.. One can only dream!
I'd love a BJ if it was a no go for the happy times. Gladly take it as consolation
This would mean the world to me. It was basically like this as sex was painful for her. But the last 4 years no contact separate bedrooms etc.
If my LL (soon to be ex) partner did anything more than give me a side hug, I’d probably be suspicious that she has an ulterior motive for why she’s doing it, and then I’d be in trouble. Anyway, to give you a straight answer, I would be really excited and fulfilled by these alternatives to PIV sex!
I'd love that
I wouldn't feel slighted exactly and I would appreciate the investment, but it wouldn't be enough for me.
I don’t know as it never happened. However, I need to see/feel my partner sexually aroused, I need to see/feel her coming. It doesn’t have to be from PIV but without the sexual excitement I would probably still leave (eventually).
Yes. Also, there is more to sex than PIV. If you want to expand your thinking, I consider sex anything involving more than 1 person spending time together in the same room where genitals are being touched. BJs *are* sex, just not the only kind.
>anything but intercourse You question seems pretty theoretical. I kindof don't believe such a relationship exists. Because I feel like the effort to genuinely meet the sexual needs of a partner with 'anything but intercourse' would put them pretty firmly into the HL category. And in my lived experience as a male with female partners, those women would rather be having PiV sex than all the frankly higher-effort sex like a blow job to completion or PiA. I'm a daily / near-daily kindof HL. If I had a partner who wanted to be involved in some way in every ejaculation of mine with the catch being no-PiV, that would make them very well matched to me, and we wouldn't have a deadbedroom.
If my wife would hold my hand or even sit close to me on the couch it would have made a huge difference. I waited nearly 12 years for her to help me understand why. I was just kept at arms length and kept me at arms length. It killed my self esteem. I left in January we are still plodding through the divorce. She would rather travel and go tell her friends how terrible I am because I want to start my life over. I have met a woman who has amazing. She lost her last partner 2 years ago unexpectedly. We have formed a very close bond. We have started sleeping together and it has been amazing. We are both 52 and healthy. The connection is amazing. I missed that so much. We started with just cuddling. Watching tv together. It’s progressed so naturally. I am used to being rejected. She peruses my affection and makes me feel wanted, handsome and sexual. I’ve never been more happy in my life
So glad you found her. 🌹
It’s been really unexpected. I’ve done individual therapy and couples therapy. Shortly after we decided to Divorce. My relationship with this person changed. Finding someone so quickly was unexpected. We are cautious and realistic. Right now it’s once a week get together and if we can a weekend date. It’s largely cuddle and sex. I never thought I would have this sort of intimacy with another person. I Hope you find what you need. Stop feeling invisible, start being invincible
If sex is an intregal part to your bond, yes completely. If it isn't, then yeah and HJ and BJ on the reg would help things.
I need intercourse for the deep level of emotional connection. I get the HJ and BJ, and I reciprocate, but I’m to the point that I’d rather not anymore.
I would largely be fine with that. Maybe kink other things up a little for fun
Yes yes yes!!! I know for myself and others our LL partners will not do these things out of fear it will lead to something else, so basically not getting any intimacy or affection at all.
mine is LL and the only thing that saves us *IS* the tons of physical affection. I’m still loved and appreciated and treated wonderfully, just.. not getting my back blown out like.. ever.
Absolutely. My now ex ("LL" btw) instead chose to cheat on me thrice to compensate lol
No- because that’s 60% of what I have now… most of an ok relationship with an avoidant guy who just doesn’t prefer to fuck a pussy. It’s not rocket science- it’s just incompatibility.
I’d love this. I feel like a roommate/butler. Do it all and zero appreciation or affection returned to me.
Literally my partner just called me sexy out of the blue yesterday for no reason and I practically came right then and there. I think I’d be fine with what you’d said
Well yes, if with all this interaction there was real communication and understanding. I think blowjobs, etc, would probably address a lot of the sexual frustration but not being able to reciprocate would be concerning too. I’d really want to understand what’s going on. If you’ve lost interest in me then that’s going to be a problem and the blowjobs will just feel like you’re going through the motions. It actually amazes me how many people on this sub think that men only want the physical contact of sex. Men have emotions and need to be love just as much as women do.
I’d be happy with a bad BJ, I mean all teeth
Honestly, that’s all I want. Hugs and kisses. Casual touch. Anything. That’s really what I want. The sex I could take or leave it.
Better than nothing, but not enough.
This seems like a rhetorical question. I don’t know how someone who is HL would dislike a connected and enthusiastic partner.
I was trying to find out if it is specifically lack of piv that leads to db.
I’m sure for some it could. I would imagine it all depends on the person.
That depends entirely on the situation and the HLs mindset. Many guys have never learned to relax and enjoy letting arousal come and go. For them, what you describe would be excruciating because it would just feel like a tease and rubbing their nose in the face that you don't desire them sexually. Other guys would love the touch and closeness to the fullest and would be very appreciative. For them, it would be just as fulfilling as PIV if not more so. Other guys would have a hard time not trying to escalate to PIV, and would end up feeling completely frustrated. At the end of the day, the key is communication to figure out if it would be a pleasant thing or a source of agony for the person on the receiving end.
I’ve been single my whole life (Muslim) so I can’t say anything about dynamics of a relationship but I consider myself a HLM cuz sex is literally always on my mind (I wish I was LL to be honest). If they offered to help in other ways such as outercourse, I would be ok with it. As long as we still have some intercourse, even if it’s little. If intimacy was ONLY outercourse I would feel sad obviously I wouldn’t blame them but I’d respectfully have to walk away
there's nothing like intercourse, not for me anyway....
Yes, if BJ’s were part of the deal (As stipulated) and reciprocation was not necessarily always needed, then yes that would be a good start. Still would need some PIV at some point, tho.
But LL typically won’t do this. Assuming they would, I don’t think anyone would consider it a DB.
Reported. There's all sorts of libidos and all sorts of DBs, try to not generalise like this.
Actually, my LL husband does most of this, just nothing in the bedroom, so yeah, it's a dead bedroom.
I was more so referring to the fact that OP included oral sex in that list. I can’t speak for everyone, but if I was personally receiving that regularly, I wouldn’t consider it a DB. Based on others posts in the sub, it’s clear they aren’t receiving oral sex either.
Gotcha.
Why would I settle for that?