We gotta make an effort to stop building gasoline closets on our projects. Pretty sure its not really worth it seeing as though we use all cordless tools.
What do you need them for ? Where did all you 'blockbeads' learn carpentry? I'm just not talking about you, seems to be a ton of ppl who think you need blocking. Waste of time and money.
Lol! No it does not roll in the hangar… which has absolutely nothing to do with blocking. Blocking at mid span reduces deflection and bounce. Downward pressure mid span causes deflection to happen as the joist is deflected it rolls mid span so obviously you should put blocking/bridging in to stop the roll mid span and build a stiffer floor.
Not in the hanger it won't but out mid span it can. There's a reason that it's done and now you're showing that you're the lazy ignorant one. It's about deflection, look it up
Not in the hanger it won't but out mid span it can. There's a reason that it's done and now you're showing that you're the lazy ignorant one. It's about deflection, look it up
There's a few times blocking is more beneficial. If your deck is to low to diagonal brace the bottom is one. Another is if you're installing a waterproofing system with a tongue and groove ceiling.
I’d be worried about a guy that never adds blocking. Many reasons and purposes for it. Mainly deflection. Built a bunch of decks for the elevator guys to work off of while they were starting install. Their engineer required blocking 16” on center. Sometimes even double layer 3/4 ply. Seems overkill until you see the weight that gets put on these things while you are 150+ feet up in a shaft.
So? Lumber moves, loads change. You don’t need to get crazy but if a guy takes his offcuts and throws 2 rows of blocking in the center of those joists it’s just a better product. Not to mention they will be straightened out and you can have some nice straight lines on your screws.
It’s required in floors, decks and walls……residential or not. Usually 4-6’ max. The guy asked if it’s worth it, general consensus here seems to be “yes”. What’s the problem with taking an extra hour or two to do a better job?
Wow. You're really out there. They used to put bridging in floors, not any longer. No noticeable vertical deflection. Walls vary and for various reasons, but not 4-6 feet, sorry. Decks the same as house joist. Feel free to waste as much time as you want however. I've built in multiple states and pass my inspections everytime.
You’re not wrong, dimensional lumber got bridging or blocking. My house is 2x10 and still has mid span blocking. TGIs are the replacement, there is still usually a wall somewhere in the span to help with “party load”. Depends what you put on your deck. Stronger is still better. Most inspections are a joke and we hopefully all agree that code is an absolute minimum. You do you man.
A lot of people here said no, but I would install blocking if you’re using composite decking. Spend the 2 hours and put it in. Looks like you have plenty of extra sitting around.
Yeah that was a concern of mine. I am using composite, and am probably using a clip system, which I think wouldn’t provide as much bracing as face screws would
Skip the clips screw and plug it. The clips look like shit. If your spending thousands of dollars on nice new composite decking spend the extra couple hundred to go with cortex it's a much better finish. Anyone who says otherwise is a liar
Oh really? I thought clips had the best aesthetics but otherwise the most downsides, I didn't realize you could really see them once installed.
I do like the aspect of cortex that you can remove a single board later on if you need to.
Edit: actually cortext might not be an option for me. I'm currently planning on using timbertech edge prime and it's not compatible.
I used clips on mine and wish I hadn’t. Thought it would look cleaner but composite expands and contracts so much in the sunlight the butt joints are constantly pulling apart and popping up. I’ll be taking them all out and plugging when I find the time, or at least peppering the top with screws
Wet noodles compared to lumber. Stair tread material is 2" thick because of the flex. So make sure you order stair material, treads. Don't use the 1" bye decking material. Too thin & flexible. No support.
Code where I am is 12” on center for composite, according to a recent inspector, although we looked up the Trex website and they say 9” centers for some of their products.
I believe they do recommend 12” for the decking that isn’t the full 3/4”. Some of their decking isn’t full thickness underneath, and looks like ribs along the whole thing. Either way I wouldn’t recommend not using blocking on the deck.
There are 4 grades of TREX decking. The lower 2 grades require joists to be max 12” oc and stringers max of 9” oc. Per the website and the installation guide at lowes and the little folded instructions in clip boxes.
I do commercial hvac myself but I’ve even heard the electricians mentality be in agreement. If you overbuild it but it passes inspection it ain’t wrong. Far easier to add more clamps or supports and set it so you pass the first inspection than to fail for something stupid and have to pay for the guy to come out again.
Nuisance wildlife trapping company owner chiming in: The best method to keep wildlife from going under is to dig a 6” down, 12” out temporary trench under the deck perimeter. Cut L shaped heavy gauge hardware cloth that hangs down from the perimeter boards 6” below grade and out 12”, then fill the dirt/rock back in. Any animal that hits the vertical mesh and digs down will encounter the fold in the wire. I prefer 16ga 1/2” x 1/2” mesh as it keeps chipmunks and mice out as well.
Blocking provides two structural functions. (1) It spreads the load to adjacent joists. The picture looks like 2x8’s (or 2x10’s?) on twelve inch centers, and seven feet long? How many pianos and hot tubs will be on there? Already well overbuilt. And (2) it prevents the joists from rolling, which is usually an issue if the joists are sitting on top of the rim. With joist hangers properly installed at both ends that is already minimized. That deck would hold an elephant or two. Do blocking if you want to use up your scrap, but I’d save my time and just be careful not to park more than one bulldozer on it.
I agree with him^
Like I wrote earlier it's another hour or so for huge benefits. I live at the beach so no question- the blocks turn it into a grid platform, three times as strong, and hold the joists at 90, making that a 5 year versus 15 year warranty by simply having a cup of coffee and adding extra blocks. No reason not too-
Thanks! I’m about to do what might be the toughest part, a single step around the deck.
Only difficult because of the grade and because I want it to be continuous around the whole perimeter. That’s what the 3/4 gravel is for, it’s actually filling in a trench I dug. Plan is to compact it with a plate compactor and build box frames that gradually get shorter as they go up the grade.
Really my main concern is that compacted 3/4 gravel will be a solid enough foundation for the steps. But short of a huge concrete project I think it’s the best option as it’ll keep the PT wood in the steps the most dry compared to other options like using pavers as a foundation.
You can, and I've seen other builders do exactly that on youtube.
I'm just thinking of this from the angle of, what will last the longest? And to me, the #1 most important thing for keeping the PT wood intact is minimizing how much and how long water touches it.
Maybe it wouldn't end up actually being a big difference, but if the PT wood is sitting on concrete blocks/pavers, water can pool there for some period of time and start to get absorbed into the wood. Given that the stair framing is a box with a series of butt joints, there's plenty of end grain to soak up water.
Versus the PT wood sitting on 4-6" of gravel, where the water immediately flows away. Obviously some amount of water will always touch the wood with it being outside, but at least with this method, there's no standing water.
Honestly what I think would be perfect for this would be a resin-bound surface. Like where they mix a gravel or other aggregate with resin. So it's super stable and hard, but still water permeable.
But I think that's out of my wheelhouse and I doubt a contractor that does it would want to come do it here for such a small footprint.
https://resinbondedaggregates.com/blog/how-to-install-a-resin-bound-driveway
I was thinking about the concrete piers. Water shouldn't pool on those. Keeping the wood off the ground could be a better alternative than on top of gravel, but Iive in an area where it snows, so I am probably biased towards colder climate solutions. It sounds like you got everything figured out!
> Keeping the wood off the ground could be a better alternative than on top of gravel
Yeah everything about this project would have been easier if the deck could just be higher, I've had to get creative to make this work at such a low height on the house side.
So unfortunately the bottom of the stairs will be in contact with the plane of the ground for at least 2/3s of the deck.
> It sounds like you got everything figured out!
Thanks! I guess we won't really know until 10-15 years from now when it'll be too late haha.
This looks good. Random Q: would it have been more/less expensive to do this same deck as a concrete patio? I understand it would require lots of concrete to be at this level. I’m currently deciding between wood vs concrete for our similar project.
Honestly I’m not sure. A lot of people would tell you this is too low for a deck and to do concrete.
In my specific case I’d need to regrade the whole area before doing concrete. The regrade and concrete pouring aren’t things I can do myself so I’d have to pay whatever market rate is for contractors to do that.
I’m going with pretty cheap composite for this project and am doing the entire thing 100% myself, I’d estimate it’s about $7,000 total. $4k for composite decking, $3k for framing wood, hangers, screws (the approved structural kind) and footing concrete.
But it’s also a shit load of time and effort. This is all my weekends, all my time on weekdays after 5pm, for like 6 weeks.
If you get concrete poured, you don’t have to do any work lol.
So I’d get quotes for concrete and see what that looks like. I’d expect concrete to last a lot longer than any deck so that’s another consideration.
Personally besides cost and grade issues etc, I’m just more of a fan of the look of a deck vs concrete anyways though so it didn’t really factor in for me.
Agreed. In all, it would shake out to be the same when you factor in all labour and material for all of the subs.
Ultimately, it comes down to the look.
You’re fine, unless you got a shitty composite decking. There is a reason blocking is required for 8ft+.
Safest way to do it check with your composite product and make sure you follow their requirements for warranty (just in case). People almost never claim composite warranty. I had experience claiming it twice with customers and once it was refused due to not following framing requirements by previous contractor and warranty was void. As a result they had to put new composite after 3 years only, was super wavy.
But you should definitely add joist tape.
Nice work!👍
Aesthetics and cost mostly.
All in this will be $7-8k. Haven't gotten quotes but given the grading changes that would be needed I'd expect grading + concrete to cost a lot more than that.
But tbh I'm just not a big fan of a concrete patio.
But yes I know this won't last as long. I'm just hoping it'll be in good shape in 20 or so years when I might sell the house.
You will be lucky to get 15 years out of this. The material is horrible and not designed to last much longer under ideal conditions. I’ll give it 13 being on the ground like this. 10 if you use joist tape. I’ve been building decks for a very long time and everything keeps getting cheaper and not to last.
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Yes, and I'd make a nice pattern, since you are using composite, you can make accurate cuts. The difference over the years is astounding, straight boards, boring.
I’d be curious what other people say but personally I think that would be fine. Obviously 2x8 would be ideal but frankly I don’t think blocking with 2x6 would make much of a difference
In my personal case I did not attach the deck to my house because I’ve historically had really bad foundation issues, so I wanted to avoid any potential complication there.
Plus the foundation itself being so old and thin, I didn’t want any more load on it or risk introduce more cracks when hammering in fasteners.
For a normal house with a good foundation, yes I would have attached the ledger board to the house.
How solid does the deck feel right now? If you’re 100% happy with how rigid it feels even before the decking is put on (which will help) maybe you don’t need to. But you said as solid as possible, so unless you have a reason not to, might as well. Last thing you want to do is assume the decking will stiffen it up to your liking and find out it wasn’t as much as you hoped.
Blocking mostly stops bouncing. If your objective is to make it solid, then yes, add the blocking. Make them as square and as best fitting as possible. If they're askew or if there's gaps, then they're almost useless.
So far it looks like better framing of 90% of the professionally built decks I’ve seen. Blocking or not, it won’t be wrong.
Can you tell us what size the lumber is and the joist spacing. I’m guessing 2x8 and 12 inches.
If you haven’t yet, I’d stitch the two boards in each beam together with 3 inch woodex screws, or similar, on a 12 inch high/low pattern. I don’t know what the code might have to say about it.
Keep up the good work.
Thanks, you’re right - 2x8 12in OC.
I’m actually using Simpson strong tie SD connector screws, not nails. So all the lateral beams are already screwed together by all the joist hanger attachment points.
The rim joists are also joined with the same structural screw but not as many.
Link if you’re not familiar:
https://www.strongtie.com/strongdrive_exteriorwoodscrews/sd_screw/p/strong-drive-sd-connector-screw
It’s a lot of wood and even more cuts, but it looks really nice so far. I recently had a similar question in my head and just decided to do it. I’m glad that I did.
You’ll knock it out pretty fast and it’s just a couple hundred more in wood. So, I’d definitely do it.
I’m no pro.. but I’d put them in. You’re already there.. all the tools and materials are ready to go. What’s a little effort now for years worth of peace of mind later?
Nope I wouldn’t waste the time or material. 7’ isn’t much of a span at all. Now if the joist we’re sitting on top of a beam instead of level with hangers I would block in between the joist on top of the beam. But for this situation. Nah
Please explain to me. I honestly don’t know why so many people build a deck on the ground. Why wouldn’t you pour a slab of concrete?? It just don’t make sense to me!
Built my deck around 87. All PT wood.No blocking, still standing.
My issue is I didn't flash properly against the house. Having some issues I have to address.
Another issue is that I used galvanized post anchors that are rusting away on the side strap that's nailed to the 4x4 post.
Last issue that I fixed last summer. Top of deck rail got weathered and rotted and had to replace. Damage mostly from the wife's planters that she placed in the deck rail. Lots of bugs under the planters.
Aside from your blocking question, I would not have used joist hangers on treated wood. It is corrosive to steel, even if galvanized. You should be using stainless steel fasteners, as well.
Ideally, you'd want your joists to sit on top of a beam.... but if clearance isn't enough, then you would use fasteners through the face of the intersecting joists and into the ends of your joists.
Also, those corners of your rim joists should have been staggered or alternated so that the joints overlap.
> Ideally, you'd want your joists to sit on top of a beam.... but if clearance isn't enough, then you would use fasteners through the face of the intersecting joists and into the ends of your joists.
There isn't enough clearance, so end-nailing? [like this?](https://d7fcfvvxwoz9e.cloudfront.net/dom43635/wp-content/uploads/2022/06/Cotys-Template-for-Body-Photos-2.png)
My understanding is that end nailing is not very structurally sound. But maybe it is if you use a lot of nails? All I've ever seen online is that end nailing is only a temporary solution to hold the joist in place until you use a hanger.
End nailing, yes.
If you can find stainless steel joist hangers, that would be another solution. You could have also used taller cross joists and added a ledger board. Think about scabbing on a 2x4 at the bottom of a 2x12, leaving you enough room for a 2x8 to sit on top of the 2x4 and still be end nailed through the 2x12.
There are a few solutions, but I would be afraid the steel joist hangers will rot away in a few years. Apparently there are joist hangers made for treated lumber but I'm not sure how much I would trust them either. They claim to be more resistant to corrosion.
So, some back history. Treated lumber contained arsenate, which was considered an environmental issue... although I think this was overblown. So, they switched to ACQ treating, which uses some derivative of copper, but it is corrosive to steel. I think it was a disaster in the making as many builders continued using steel fasteners, either because it was so much cheaper, or available (was hard to find SS nails early on), or simply because they didn't know.
My own deck at home is 23 years old. I used heavy galvanized spiral nails for the decking boards and they have dissolved, over the years, to nothing. The heads look fine, but the shanks are just gone where they are completely embedded in the wood. That was early on in the ACQ switch when you couldn't get SS nails and people thought that heavy galv would be suitable. It took awhile, but 23 years passes by way faster than you'd think, lol. I just have been replacing those nails with screws as the board come loose.
The joist hangers and fasteners I used for this are rated by simpson for use with PT wood, but they do say it's not as good as stainless.
Well, too late now. I'm not gonna go redo everything.
I don't expect the metal to be corroded away in a few years, but my previous assumption would be that the PT wood would rot first. Now it seems it could be that or the galvanized steel corroding away.
"I’m looking to make the most solid, long lasting deck I can" well you answered the question right there, overkill it is. I would. Too much is always enough.
Bridging or blocking help keep the top of joists aligned. If you get a board that wants to crown the bridging helps hold it in line (the decking can help too)
It's more important with longer spans and lower quality lumber.
If it's not big box lumber you're probably OK
Proper frame construction is key, and this is where blocking comes in—a Code Requirement in the International Building Code for Deck Construction (Ref 2018 IRC R502.7, R502.7.1, and as updates may appear in the IRC 2024).
If you’re using composite I’d put it in for sure. Make sure the top of the blocking is even either the top of the joists on each piece of blocking and joist.
This will help even out the uneveness of the joists and help your floor look flat, not wavy.
It helps if the thickness of the joists is consistent where it sits on the beams too. Typically we’ll rip the ends of all the joists to 9-1/8” so they’re all even. Then the blocking keeps the middle nice.
Use a temporary stringer board to align your joists. Do you guys try to use blocking in rafters also? How about ceiling joists?
Helpful hint on deck screws.. snap white chalk lines.
I don’t care what any “experts” or “professionals” say in this thread. You will never regret something that might be overbuilt, but you’ll always regret something under. Also, wood structures age and can use all the help they can get.
On your rim joist you shouldnt cut them the same length. Your inside rim joist should be 1-1/2" shorter so that they lock in. As far as blocking goes i dont think you'll need it but it will definitely help take some shake out of your build.
If you pour concrete footers and then raise the ground level above the footers with gravel, doesn't that negate the footer? The post is now in contact with the ground again.
Honest question for the community.
I'm not even close to done with those areas, there's gonna be a stair step there.
Once that gravel is compacted it'll be at level with the ground and there won't be gravel touching the wood.
I'm no deck expert, but yeah I think gravel touching wood is worse than gravel not touching wood, but not nearly as bad as dirt touching wood.
Dirt retains moisture, gravel doesn't.
Edit: just re-read your comment. To be clear, these concrete footings were always ground level. But the wood is attached to the concrete with 1 inch metal spacers, so they never touch the ground, and water never pools up an inch.
So a couple of non-blocking observations.
* Are the mid span beams supported by the same # of posts and footings as the outer flush beam? If not, your deck could break and fold in half. Building this in 3 sections with mid span flush beams and no contiguous joists can certainly be done, but each section needs to be independently supported as there is little structural rigidity between the sections.
* The end joist should terminate at the ledger, not next to it. The way it’s currently set up, it’s a weak connection as there is nothing supporting the house end. I can’t tell if there’s a post back there from the picture.
If you install blockers and don’t need them it won’t matter, but in 3 years from now if you need them and don’t install them, it will be too late
then you'll risk having to hire the guy my dad hired to jack up our cabin who somehow just burned it down, haha
Lol howd he manage that one 😂😂😂 theres gotta be a great story in there.
Mini grinder in the gasoline closet. It’ll getcha every time
We gotta make an effort to stop building gasoline closets on our projects. Pretty sure its not really worth it seeing as though we use all cordless tools.
How do you expect the drywallers to get to work if they can’t steal gas?
Last drywallers huffed up 23 gallons of petro and 2 gallons of diesel. We're gonna have to install bigger fuel tanks.
I'd huff gas too if I had to hang rock all day.
I caught one gnawing on my ratchet straps the other day which was weird because I was working on a bridge deck. Not a sheet of drywall in sight
Must be that same guy I try to avoid and not make eye contact with at the 7eleven.
They'd be rich if they bought into the piss bottle market.
My guess is fire caused by moving the structure, so snapped a gas line or electrical.
He used the other oven
Wtf? Ins job?
Was it the cigars Kramer?
Great reason to do it
What do you need them for ? Where did all you 'blockbeads' learn carpentry? I'm just not talking about you, seems to be a ton of ppl who think you need blocking. Waste of time and money.
Keeps joists from rolling and helps mitigate away. It's good practice and you're just lazy.
Ever heard of joist hangers? It's good practice your just lazy
Lol, yes. I even have two positive placement guns. Wood can still move.
Yeah joist are not rolling over in hangers my man. Blocking is just not nessicary
Lol! No it does not roll in the hangar… which has absolutely nothing to do with blocking. Blocking at mid span reduces deflection and bounce. Downward pressure mid span causes deflection to happen as the joist is deflected it rolls mid span so obviously you should put blocking/bridging in to stop the roll mid span and build a stiffer floor.
Not in the hanger it won't but out mid span it can. There's a reason that it's done and now you're showing that you're the lazy ignorant one. It's about deflection, look it up
Not in the hanger it won't but out mid span it can. There's a reason that it's done and now you're showing that you're the lazy ignorant one. It's about deflection, look it up
What are rolling joist? Did you nail them properly? You're supposed to diagonally brace the underside of a deck.
There's a few times blocking is more beneficial. If your deck is to low to diagonal brace the bottom is one. Another is if you're installing a waterproofing system with a tongue and groove ceiling.
I’d be worried about a guy that never adds blocking. Many reasons and purposes for it. Mainly deflection. Built a bunch of decks for the elevator guys to work off of while they were starting install. Their engineer required blocking 16” on center. Sometimes even double layer 3/4 ply. Seems overkill until you see the weight that gets put on these things while you are 150+ feet up in a shaft.
It's a deck though, not a home floor.
So? Lumber moves, loads change. You don’t need to get crazy but if a guy takes his offcuts and throws 2 rows of blocking in the center of those joists it’s just a better product. Not to mention they will be straightened out and you can have some nice straight lines on your screws.
What are you talking about? You want to tell us a story about a commercial job you were on?
It’s required in floors, decks and walls……residential or not. Usually 4-6’ max. The guy asked if it’s worth it, general consensus here seems to be “yes”. What’s the problem with taking an extra hour or two to do a better job?
Wow. You're really out there. They used to put bridging in floors, not any longer. No noticeable vertical deflection. Walls vary and for various reasons, but not 4-6 feet, sorry. Decks the same as house joist. Feel free to waste as much time as you want however. I've built in multiple states and pass my inspections everytime.
You’re not wrong, dimensional lumber got bridging or blocking. My house is 2x10 and still has mid span blocking. TGIs are the replacement, there is still usually a wall somewhere in the span to help with “party load”. Depends what you put on your deck. Stronger is still better. Most inspections are a joke and we hopefully all agree that code is an absolute minimum. You do you man.
A lot of people here said no, but I would install blocking if you’re using composite decking. Spend the 2 hours and put it in. Looks like you have plenty of extra sitting around.
Yeah that was a concern of mine. I am using composite, and am probably using a clip system, which I think wouldn’t provide as much bracing as face screws would
Yes, then I would block it.
The blocking will stop bowing from occuring in the future. Def do it
This !!
Clip the hell out of it.
Composite sags badly so don’t give it a chance to.
Skip the clips screw and plug it. The clips look like shit. If your spending thousands of dollars on nice new composite decking spend the extra couple hundred to go with cortex it's a much better finish. Anyone who says otherwise is a liar
Oh really? I thought clips had the best aesthetics but otherwise the most downsides, I didn't realize you could really see them once installed. I do like the aspect of cortex that you can remove a single board later on if you need to. Edit: actually cortext might not be an option for me. I'm currently planning on using timbertech edge prime and it's not compatible.
I used clips on mine and wish I hadn’t. Thought it would look cleaner but composite expands and contracts so much in the sunlight the butt joints are constantly pulling apart and popping up. I’ll be taking them all out and plugging when I find the time, or at least peppering the top with screws
Perfect logic, I love the clip systems they have now but it does allow joists to move and twist around.
Then yes, use blocking
Can you explain this? What is the nuance with composite decking?
it has flex
Hidden fasteners systems allow boards to float which allows joists to twist around.
Wet noodles compared to lumber. Stair tread material is 2" thick because of the flex. So make sure you order stair material, treads. Don't use the 1" bye decking material. Too thin & flexible. No support.
Stringers 12 in oc solves this. As risers are required
Code where I am is 12” on center for composite, according to a recent inspector, although we looked up the Trex website and they say 9” centers for some of their products.
Trex decking is 16 oc, maximum and 12 for stairs. It has been this way since it came out. Trex company and Local codes every where it’s sold.
I believe they do recommend 12” for the decking that isn’t the full 3/4”. Some of their decking isn’t full thickness underneath, and looks like ribs along the whole thing. Either way I wouldn’t recommend not using blocking on the deck.
Scalloped boards are crap. Always buy full profile.
Yes. I thought so too, but this is from their website “ (in this case, a stringer will be needed every 9”, minimum, for Trex® Enhance Decking). “
There are 4 grades of TREX decking. The lower 2 grades require joists to be max 12” oc and stringers max of 9” oc. Per the website and the installation guide at lowes and the little folded instructions in clip boxes.
They wouldn’t sell this stuff if that was so
Because Trex is shit. They've totally compromised on their quality since they have name recognition to corner the market.
Pretty soon you'll be putting down a sub floor
The newer PVC decking which is not sold in scalloped boards can be 16 OC on stairs
Okay. The new materials come out and change so fast a business needs someone to keep up with it all full time.
Some may have. Best answer I saw was the if you do and didn’t need em no harm no foul. But if you don’t and needed em your fucked and it’s too late.
Ya I saw that too and it made thing of my dad. He always overbuids things. Lol
I do commercial hvac myself but I’ve even heard the electricians mentality be in agreement. If you overbuild it but it passes inspection it ain’t wrong. Far easier to add more clamps or supports and set it so you pass the first inspection than to fail for something stupid and have to pay for the guy to come out again.
I would at 3.5 feet and put joist tape over the tops to prevent rotting
I’d block it not matter what just stiffens the deck the mat much more
If you had a lot of cutoffs that you dont wanna burn then yes. But otherwise id leave as is.
Don't burn PT lumber very toxic
So that’s what that was 😵💫
Ummm... whoops.
np
But the colors are worth it.
I was using the word burn as a substitute for ‘get rid of’
sorry went right over my head
Can’t burn Treated lumber it gives off toxic gases. Mostly it smolders If you can actually get it to ignite
Sounds like I won’t then, I have a lot of cutoffs but I’m going to use them for blocking the perimeter for the picture frame
Nope.
How do you keep possums from living under it?
I'm guessing that might happen no matter what I do. but there will be steps around the whole perimeter that *should* keep animals out.
Nuisance wildlife trapping company owner chiming in: The best method to keep wildlife from going under is to dig a 6” down, 12” out temporary trench under the deck perimeter. Cut L shaped heavy gauge hardware cloth that hangs down from the perimeter boards 6” below grade and out 12”, then fill the dirt/rock back in. Any animal that hits the vertical mesh and digs down will encounter the fold in the wire. I prefer 16ga 1/2” x 1/2” mesh as it keeps chipmunks and mice out as well.
No, blocking is useless for most dimensional lumber.
Blocking provides two structural functions. (1) It spreads the load to adjacent joists. The picture looks like 2x8’s (or 2x10’s?) on twelve inch centers, and seven feet long? How many pianos and hot tubs will be on there? Already well overbuilt. And (2) it prevents the joists from rolling, which is usually an issue if the joists are sitting on top of the rim. With joist hangers properly installed at both ends that is already minimized. That deck would hold an elephant or two. Do blocking if you want to use up your scrap, but I’d save my time and just be careful not to park more than one bulldozer on it.
Thanks for the feedback, I was trying to overbuild but didn’t realize I had to that extent, happy to hear it, thanks!
I’m not a structural engineer, just sharing my (experienced) gut reaction. It looks solid. Enjoy it.
I agree with him^ Like I wrote earlier it's another hour or so for huge benefits. I live at the beach so no question- the blocks turn it into a grid platform, three times as strong, and hold the joists at 90, making that a 5 year versus 15 year warranty by simply having a cup of coffee and adding extra blocks. No reason not too-
No
It looks nice, what are your deck dimensions?
Roughly 22’ from the house, 20’ wide
Thanks, I just noticed you had plans in a previous post. Keep up with the good work!
Thanks! I’m about to do what might be the toughest part, a single step around the deck. Only difficult because of the grade and because I want it to be continuous around the whole perimeter. That’s what the 3/4 gravel is for, it’s actually filling in a trench I dug. Plan is to compact it with a plate compactor and build box frames that gradually get shorter as they go up the grade. Really my main concern is that compacted 3/4 gravel will be a solid enough foundation for the steps. But short of a huge concrete project I think it’s the best option as it’ll keep the PT wood in the steps the most dry compared to other options like using pavers as a foundation.
Oh, that's an interesting design. Can you use concrete blocks on top of the gravel?
You can, and I've seen other builders do exactly that on youtube. I'm just thinking of this from the angle of, what will last the longest? And to me, the #1 most important thing for keeping the PT wood intact is minimizing how much and how long water touches it. Maybe it wouldn't end up actually being a big difference, but if the PT wood is sitting on concrete blocks/pavers, water can pool there for some period of time and start to get absorbed into the wood. Given that the stair framing is a box with a series of butt joints, there's plenty of end grain to soak up water. Versus the PT wood sitting on 4-6" of gravel, where the water immediately flows away. Obviously some amount of water will always touch the wood with it being outside, but at least with this method, there's no standing water. Honestly what I think would be perfect for this would be a resin-bound surface. Like where they mix a gravel or other aggregate with resin. So it's super stable and hard, but still water permeable. But I think that's out of my wheelhouse and I doubt a contractor that does it would want to come do it here for such a small footprint. https://resinbondedaggregates.com/blog/how-to-install-a-resin-bound-driveway
I was thinking about the concrete piers. Water shouldn't pool on those. Keeping the wood off the ground could be a better alternative than on top of gravel, but Iive in an area where it snows, so I am probably biased towards colder climate solutions. It sounds like you got everything figured out!
> Keeping the wood off the ground could be a better alternative than on top of gravel Yeah everything about this project would have been easier if the deck could just be higher, I've had to get creative to make this work at such a low height on the house side. So unfortunately the bottom of the stairs will be in contact with the plane of the ground for at least 2/3s of the deck. > It sounds like you got everything figured out! Thanks! I guess we won't really know until 10-15 years from now when it'll be too late haha.
This looks good. Random Q: would it have been more/less expensive to do this same deck as a concrete patio? I understand it would require lots of concrete to be at this level. I’m currently deciding between wood vs concrete for our similar project.
Honestly I’m not sure. A lot of people would tell you this is too low for a deck and to do concrete. In my specific case I’d need to regrade the whole area before doing concrete. The regrade and concrete pouring aren’t things I can do myself so I’d have to pay whatever market rate is for contractors to do that. I’m going with pretty cheap composite for this project and am doing the entire thing 100% myself, I’d estimate it’s about $7,000 total. $4k for composite decking, $3k for framing wood, hangers, screws (the approved structural kind) and footing concrete. But it’s also a shit load of time and effort. This is all my weekends, all my time on weekdays after 5pm, for like 6 weeks. If you get concrete poured, you don’t have to do any work lol. So I’d get quotes for concrete and see what that looks like. I’d expect concrete to last a lot longer than any deck so that’s another consideration. Personally besides cost and grade issues etc, I’m just more of a fan of the look of a deck vs concrete anyways though so it didn’t really factor in for me.
Agreed. In all, it would shake out to be the same when you factor in all labour and material for all of the subs. Ultimately, it comes down to the look.
Wood / decking feels so much nicer to walk out onto barefoot on a sunny morning.
Why not?
yep
You’re fine, unless you got a shitty composite decking. There is a reason blocking is required for 8ft+. Safest way to do it check with your composite product and make sure you follow their requirements for warranty (just in case). People almost never claim composite warranty. I had experience claiming it twice with customers and once it was refused due to not following framing requirements by previous contractor and warranty was void. As a result they had to put new composite after 3 years only, was super wavy. But you should definitely add joist tape. Nice work!👍
I’m building a deck this year. Super excited.
It's a lot of work but really satisfying to see progress!
I’ve built decks for commercial purposes and the more you fit the better but it’s up to you if it’s for yourself or a private job 👍🏻
Pretty minimal additional time and cost to add the blocking compared to what you already have into it.
Very large deck with a small attached house.
No
If you want solid and long lasting why didn’t you do stamped concrete?
Aesthetics and cost mostly. All in this will be $7-8k. Haven't gotten quotes but given the grading changes that would be needed I'd expect grading + concrete to cost a lot more than that. But tbh I'm just not a big fan of a concrete patio. But yes I know this won't last as long. I'm just hoping it'll be in good shape in 20 or so years when I might sell the house.
You will be lucky to get 15 years out of this. The material is horrible and not designed to last much longer under ideal conditions. I’ll give it 13 being on the ground like this. 10 if you use joist tape. I’ve been building decks for a very long time and everything keeps getting cheaper and not to last.
RemindMe! 10 years “has my deck fallen apart?”
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YESSS
Yes, and I'd make a nice pattern, since you are using composite, you can make accurate cuts. The difference over the years is astounding, straight boards, boring.
I would personally, might as well you’ve got plenty of extra
Yes adds structure to the floor I’ve been framing for almost 30 years
Looks like your on 12 inch centers already
Engineering squared equals stability plus durability, or E2=S+D.
Those look like 2x8s you can if you like over building but it’s fine.
Does the blocking have to be the same size boards as the joists? My joists are 2x8’s. Wanted to use 2x6’s. Is that okay?
I’d be curious what other people say but personally I think that would be fine. Obviously 2x8 would be ideal but frankly I don’t think blocking with 2x6 would make much of a difference
No
No. Wait a second, hell no. Looks good.
Hopefully not an annoying question. But deck basics: would a deck like this be attached to the house or nah?
In my personal case I did not attach the deck to my house because I’ve historically had really bad foundation issues, so I wanted to avoid any potential complication there. Plus the foundation itself being so old and thin, I didn’t want any more load on it or risk introduce more cracks when hammering in fasteners. For a normal house with a good foundation, yes I would have attached the ledger board to the house.
Block it, and put joist tape on it
no, but the middle bands should have been doubled, also I still prefer bridging to blocking
All the beams are doubled. Maybe the angle makes them looks thinner. The only parts that aren’t doubled are the joists themselves.
How solid does the deck feel right now? If you’re 100% happy with how rigid it feels even before the decking is put on (which will help) maybe you don’t need to. But you said as solid as possible, so unless you have a reason not to, might as well. Last thing you want to do is assume the decking will stiffen it up to your liking and find out it wasn’t as much as you hoped.
For the $50 bucks in material? Yeah I would
Did you cut in all the beams to the post? Looks nice man
If you got the extra material laying around you might as well
Blocking mostly stops bouncing. If your objective is to make it solid, then yes, add the blocking. Make them as square and as best fitting as possible. If they're askew or if there's gaps, then they're almost useless.
Usually 4 square feet can hold up to 8 persons at 1200 pounds but if you’re in the USA that’s only 4 persons so better block it.
😂😂😂
Yes. It will help with the structure rigidity of the deck. It won't be bouncy. It will feel more solid.
Wouldn’t hurt. I would
Absolutely. It costs almost nothing and will add substantial integrity.
So far it looks like better framing of 90% of the professionally built decks I’ve seen. Blocking or not, it won’t be wrong. Can you tell us what size the lumber is and the joist spacing. I’m guessing 2x8 and 12 inches. If you haven’t yet, I’d stitch the two boards in each beam together with 3 inch woodex screws, or similar, on a 12 inch high/low pattern. I don’t know what the code might have to say about it. Keep up the good work.
Thanks, you’re right - 2x8 12in OC. I’m actually using Simpson strong tie SD connector screws, not nails. So all the lateral beams are already screwed together by all the joist hanger attachment points. The rim joists are also joined with the same structural screw but not as many. Link if you’re not familiar: https://www.strongtie.com/strongdrive_exteriorwoodscrews/sd_screw/p/strong-drive-sd-connector-screw
Dang, those screws beat the heck out of Teco nails and will serve double duty. I think you’re good to go!
Wouldn’t bother. Its fine.
It’s a lot of wood and even more cuts, but it looks really nice so far. I recently had a similar question in my head and just decided to do it. I’m glad that I did. You’ll knock it out pretty fast and it’s just a couple hundred more in wood. So, I’d definitely do it.
I’m no pro.. but I’d put them in. You’re already there.. all the tools and materials are ready to go. What’s a little effort now for years worth of peace of mind later?
I'd do it just to get rid of all those 1' chunks. Chop saw for sure.
Yes. Another hour of time, more stronger for longer time.
Nope I wouldn’t waste the time or material. 7’ isn’t much of a span at all. Now if the joist we’re sitting on top of a beam instead of level with hangers I would block in between the joist on top of the beam. But for this situation. Nah
Please explain to me. I honestly don’t know why so many people build a deck on the ground. Why wouldn’t you pour a slab of concrete?? It just don’t make sense to me!
I don't want my backyard to be a mini parking lot. Yes I know you can stamp and stain it, and it'll last decades longer. Still not my bag.
yes
Built my deck around 87. All PT wood.No blocking, still standing. My issue is I didn't flash properly against the house. Having some issues I have to address. Another issue is that I used galvanized post anchors that are rusting away on the side strap that's nailed to the 4x4 post. Last issue that I fixed last summer. Top of deck rail got weathered and rotted and had to replace. Damage mostly from the wife's planters that she placed in the deck rail. Lots of bugs under the planters.
I’d put strips of tar paper over the frame pieces.
That’s real pretty. 🙌🙌🙌
Blocking 8’. 2’ blocking around the exterior rim joist is common too. Look like your good to go on the pictured deck
More is better but best to plan where the blocking will be. If they are at a joint crap will build up in the gap between boards and look crappy.
No
I would not. You’re good.
Aside from your blocking question, I would not have used joist hangers on treated wood. It is corrosive to steel, even if galvanized. You should be using stainless steel fasteners, as well.
How would you do this without joist hangers?
Ideally, you'd want your joists to sit on top of a beam.... but if clearance isn't enough, then you would use fasteners through the face of the intersecting joists and into the ends of your joists. Also, those corners of your rim joists should have been staggered or alternated so that the joints overlap.
> Ideally, you'd want your joists to sit on top of a beam.... but if clearance isn't enough, then you would use fasteners through the face of the intersecting joists and into the ends of your joists. There isn't enough clearance, so end-nailing? [like this?](https://d7fcfvvxwoz9e.cloudfront.net/dom43635/wp-content/uploads/2022/06/Cotys-Template-for-Body-Photos-2.png) My understanding is that end nailing is not very structurally sound. But maybe it is if you use a lot of nails? All I've ever seen online is that end nailing is only a temporary solution to hold the joist in place until you use a hanger.
End nailing, yes. If you can find stainless steel joist hangers, that would be another solution. You could have also used taller cross joists and added a ledger board. Think about scabbing on a 2x4 at the bottom of a 2x12, leaving you enough room for a 2x8 to sit on top of the 2x4 and still be end nailed through the 2x12. There are a few solutions, but I would be afraid the steel joist hangers will rot away in a few years. Apparently there are joist hangers made for treated lumber but I'm not sure how much I would trust them either. They claim to be more resistant to corrosion. So, some back history. Treated lumber contained arsenate, which was considered an environmental issue... although I think this was overblown. So, they switched to ACQ treating, which uses some derivative of copper, but it is corrosive to steel. I think it was a disaster in the making as many builders continued using steel fasteners, either because it was so much cheaper, or available (was hard to find SS nails early on), or simply because they didn't know. My own deck at home is 23 years old. I used heavy galvanized spiral nails for the decking boards and they have dissolved, over the years, to nothing. The heads look fine, but the shanks are just gone where they are completely embedded in the wood. That was early on in the ACQ switch when you couldn't get SS nails and people thought that heavy galv would be suitable. It took awhile, but 23 years passes by way faster than you'd think, lol. I just have been replacing those nails with screws as the board come loose.
The joist hangers and fasteners I used for this are rated by simpson for use with PT wood, but they do say it's not as good as stainless. Well, too late now. I'm not gonna go redo everything. I don't expect the metal to be corroded away in a few years, but my previous assumption would be that the PT wood would rot first. Now it seems it could be that or the galvanized steel corroding away.
the top boards are going to be enough
Over build it. Better to have too much structure, than not enough. My opinion only. I am NOT a P.E.
"I’m looking to make the most solid, long lasting deck I can" well you answered the question right there, overkill it is. I would. Too much is always enough.
Yes I'd definitely block it. One extra step now save headache later!
No. It's not ever going to matter unless you want a hot tub on the deck. Southern pine is pretty rigid toom
Wood deck... No. Hidden fastener Trex deck... Yes.
Do it now while it’s opened up. Better safe than sorry. Too easy and cheap not to
Yup
nah not if those joists are 2x10
Bridging or blocking help keep the top of joists aligned. If you get a board that wants to crown the bridging helps hold it in line (the decking can help too) It's more important with longer spans and lower quality lumber. If it's not big box lumber you're probably OK
Proper frame construction is key, and this is where blocking comes in—a Code Requirement in the International Building Code for Deck Construction (Ref 2018 IRC R502.7, R502.7.1, and as updates may appear in the IRC 2024).
Not on joists that short unless you have a very heavy load.
Are those all doubled up by the house? Are we getting a hot tub?!
If you’re using composite I’d put it in for sure. Make sure the top of the blocking is even either the top of the joists on each piece of blocking and joist. This will help even out the uneveness of the joists and help your floor look flat, not wavy. It helps if the thickness of the joists is consistent where it sits on the beams too. Typically we’ll rip the ends of all the joists to 9-1/8” so they’re all even. Then the blocking keeps the middle nice.
Use a temporary stringer board to align your joists. Do you guys try to use blocking in rafters also? How about ceiling joists? Helpful hint on deck screws.. snap white chalk lines.
' code an absolute minimum'? .. what planet are you on? You are not a tradesman or a builder I don't beleve.
Not required
But would stiffen the floir
Single beams?
I would, I wouldn't have used pressure treated lumber
Maybe if your using composite decking with hidden fasteners. Never hurts the build to add.
I would
I don’t care what any “experts” or “professionals” say in this thread. You will never regret something that might be overbuilt, but you’ll always regret something under. Also, wood structures age and can use all the help they can get.
Make sure you cover over the tops of the joist so they won’t rot with all the screws going in them
Always block. Wood expands and contracts a lot more outdoors. The deck will feel more solid and that is a great feeling.
On your rim joist you shouldnt cut them the same length. Your inside rim joist should be 1-1/2" shorter so that they lock in. As far as blocking goes i dont think you'll need it but it will definitely help take some shake out of your build.
Even though it can be a waste of time of not needed blocking never hurts
It won't hurt.
Fin deck is bigger then the house just saying.
You do not need blocking
Nah you’re good. Nice deck
Don't stop now, continuing on the path of ~~self-destruction~~ enlightenment.
huh?
If you pour concrete footers and then raise the ground level above the footers with gravel, doesn't that negate the footer? The post is now in contact with the ground again. Honest question for the community.
I'm not even close to done with those areas, there's gonna be a stair step there. Once that gravel is compacted it'll be at level with the ground and there won't be gravel touching the wood. I'm no deck expert, but yeah I think gravel touching wood is worse than gravel not touching wood, but not nearly as bad as dirt touching wood. Dirt retains moisture, gravel doesn't. Edit: just re-read your comment. To be clear, these concrete footings were always ground level. But the wood is attached to the concrete with 1 inch metal spacers, so they never touch the ground, and water never pools up an inch.
Absolutely unnecessary
So a couple of non-blocking observations. * Are the mid span beams supported by the same # of posts and footings as the outer flush beam? If not, your deck could break and fold in half. Building this in 3 sections with mid span flush beams and no contiguous joists can certainly be done, but each section needs to be independently supported as there is little structural rigidity between the sections. * The end joist should terminate at the ledger, not next to it. The way it’s currently set up, it’s a weak connection as there is nothing supporting the house end. I can’t tell if there’s a post back there from the picture.