American culture war nonsense spreading to Europe, causing large segments of European discourse (especially among younger people) to be analyzed through a lens tainted by American politics.
This is especially true of any conversations relating to race. I've seen educated Europeans unironically use terms like "BIPOC", despite the fact that it makes *no sense whatsoever* in a European context.
The BIPOC of Germany:
Black = Blacks
Indigenious: Germanic germans
Poc = People of Color = All ethnic Minorities
So the only evil Bipoc-oppressing races for Germany apparently are the other white europeans like frenchites, bongers, poles, spaniards and slavs, and white americans?
I think that kinda was Hitler's take if you consider the Versaille treaty lmao
The lack of good, clean, safe public transportation is fucking wild. It makes total sense, mind you. I get that our cities were really made for cars, but fuuuuuck. I live in Europe now and I haven't even kind of needed or wanted a car in the past 2 years.
Yall have to pay for how you’ve spread culture war bullshit across the globe.
Cause why do I as a non American have to hear the words ‘woke’ spoken by my government?
That’s yalls problem.
We got a lot of it from European sociologists and philosophers through the 20th century, we've just [unfortunately] dominated the online discussion recently. Plus, we got our racism from somewhere.
Hey, can you give me a quick summary of any of the Frankfurt school thinkers' thought and how their particular form of critique has "trickled down" into corporations? It sounds like you don't have the first idea of what you're talking about. It seems like you think deconstructionism somehow dangerous, when really its a method of analyzing cultural texts . You're just repeating a conspiracy theory.
Zero responsibility lol. I don't see anything hurtful rhetoric from Europe, Asia, Africa, South America, spreading in any serious way into America. How can you be so influenced by our culture yet we aren't by yours?
What? As in pro-palestine protestors?
I'm willing to admit we have regards and a cultural divide. The average eurotard will see their regards and cultural divide and blame it on America.
What your little brain cannot understand is looking at the source of the cultural divide. Most people with a brain and capability to look at things will be able to clearly pin point most of regardetion on americans, while you people champion and glorify the ability to murder yourselves on the streets in the name of freedom.
The cope is reaching critical levels, sir. I'm curious, since you have a brain, can you clearly pinpoint all of Europe's or your countries cultural issues and how it's completely America's fault?
I think the American attitude to long sleeve shirts is idiotic.
Some places in the rest of the world have a dress code including long sleeves and we are sick of Americans harping on about their right to bare arms.
I used to disagree and think this mindset was cringe, but America has greatly changed in the last 20 years in ways I thought it never would. Growing up in the 90s, there was a lingering sense of patriotism and a collective conscious of taking pride in building on the legacy of the Great American Experiment. It genuinely felt like the the country was healing from its sins, like racism, slavery, the Vietnam War, etc etc. and it definitely felt like there was some kind of broad American identity that transcended regional, or group, identity. Leftists would say this was just liberal cope, but most weren’t even born before the 2000s and never experienced this zeitgeist.
Then 9/11 happened, we entered into 2 forever wars and the internet and social media exploded onto the scene. The first two things disillusioned an entire generation of kids/young adults (and likely traumatized them as well, especially those of us within direct proximity of NYC), and subsequent generations as well. The third thing, social media, has individualism-maxxed an entire generation, and subsequent generations as well. Taken together, I can feel a palpable rift in the glue holding the social fabric together that was definitely *not* there when I was growing up. As social media algorithms have progressed, we are seeing this expressed in a tangible sense as people are getting sorted into more disparate, more extreme boxes, be they political, social, ideological etc.
These are just my personal thoughts about what I’ve observed in 30+ years of being an American, but I’m curious about what you personally mean by “extreme-individualism” in your OP u/Archi-Parchi
I’m around Destiny’s age and would also be interested in his thoughts and feelings about this
>Then 9/11 happened, we entered into 2 forever wars and the internet and social media exploded onto the scene.
Don't forget the financial crisis :). "9/11 -> Iraq & Afghanistan -> 2007 -> Social Media" was just a perfect sequence of dominoes to create the shitstorm of cynicism we're currently in. I don't know if it is necessarily “extreme-individualism” that has caused this because I think that has been present to some degree for decades, if not since our inception. Though I agree people's sense of patriotism being evaporated, as well as social media and social trends pushing people more towards this “extreme-individualism”, has made that level of individualism much more unsustainable. I was definitely victim to this, as I'm a younger millennial (almost a zoomer Sweatstiny), but a lot recent events like Jan 6. and the Ukraine-Russia conflict and watching Tiny has woken me up quite a bit.
Yea very good point. I think I’ve blocked out that period of time lol since I was in the tail-end of college/entering into the workforce in increasingly exploitative low-paying entry-level positions as became the norm during the financial crisis and beyond. I think that definitely contributed, and most definitely grew the dissident far-left *and* far-right we see today (Occupy Movement, conspiracy theories, Bernie Sanders, anti-establishment movements and the rise of Trump, socialism, etc).
My post is just my personal interpretation of what “extreme individualism” feels like to me when I think back to my youth til now. America felt like a happy medium between collectivism and individualism in my memories, and in media from the time; in modern times, it definitely feels like a pendulum swing to more extreme individualism, in its most vapid and narcissistic glory.
As an addendum- I am aware that my memories may be deceiving me about the “material conditions on the ground” (as Hasan would say), or I could have grown up in a uniquely blissful region of the US, or had a particularly blessed childhood. That being said, in all of my conversations with other elder millennials (and older generations- boomers, Gen X), many of whom grew up scattered across the country, and are of varying ethnic/religious backgrounds, the vast majority share my memory of a generally cohesive American culture.
Both of my parents were hippies and steeped in counter-culture and raged against the machine during the ‘60s/‘70s, and yet, like most hippies, were eventually neatly brought back into the fold. I am worried that this cohesion is no longer strong enough to bring those currently in angsty rebellion against the system back into the fold, and I don’t think that I need to explain why that spells trouble for America moving forward.
>America felt like a happy medium between collectivism and individualism in my memories, and in media from the time; in modern times, it definitely feels like a pendulum swing to more extreme individualism, in its most vapid and narcissistic glory.
Yeah I suppose applying the term "extreme individualism" might not be the best word to describe previous generation's individualism. I think I would probably be more correct to say America and its culture has always trended more individualistic than most other countries and stuck out to a certain regard in this. I think it might be more precise to reserve "extreme individualism" for this new wave.
>Both of my parents were hippies and steeped in counter-culture and raged against the machine during the ‘60s/‘70s, and yet, like most hippies, were eventually neatly brought back into the fold.
Well even when I watch movies, docs or read about that era, while those counter-culture movements were very antagonist towards "America", it felt like there was still some underlying love or appreciation for America (obviously not always the case). My mind naturally thinks of Peter Fonda in *Easy Rider*, what is now one of *the* classic counter-culture films, whose character is decked out in the red, white and blue the whole movie. I think that maybe made it easier for them to come back in the fold, because there was still a little bit of glue left. Also it probably helped that most hippies were poor and it's harder to tour with the dead if you want to get a 9-to-5 to raise a family.
I think there is still hope considering myself. With Destiny taking off and the decline of Hasan, I'm a little more optimistic about the left becoming more liberal and stepping back from the "America bad!" ledge. I don't know about the trumpels though. They think they're the true patriots yet want to seemingly destroy 95% of American institutions. Also, for fuck's sake we need to ban TikTok and make it be sold to an American company.
The fact they call themselves a world champions in American football and basketball. You can’t be a world champion if the only people that compete are teams in America
Yeah, baseball is way more popular abroad, so that one is silly with much stiffer competition. I'd bet we're largely responsible for making it super popular in Korea and Japan though. I'm sure our win-rate for Basketball will go down as it becomes more popular abroad.
We are responsible.
Apparently an American English teacher brought baseball to Japan in the 1800s and it became just as popular over there as it was in America in the late 19th/early 20th century.
It was an American missionary who brought baseball to Korea originally, but it didn’t really take off until the Korean Civil War, and the subsequent American military presence in South Korea in the 1950s.
Nba for example. The best players in the world rn are majority foreign. They’re weirdly concentrated in the top 10, but the league itself is internationally sourced. All the best basketball players are in the NBA. I personally wouldnt call them “world champs” cuz i dont like imprecise language, but it’s also pretty much accurate. No team outside the league would have a chance in hell competing
Because it’s not open to the world is it. It’s the US and 1 Canadian team (according to someone else I don’t know). It’s not like Norway could enter a team if they wanted to
It’s not exclusive to the US, but the number of teams is limited yeah.
But either way, Norwegian players are allowed to compete. The league could move to any country in the world tomorrow, it would be the same 500 players. So why does it matter if the teams are located in the US?
Because you would never call club leagues such as the NBA or the premier league the world. It’s only considered the world when it’s international (when talking about teams)
idk anything about soccer, but if the premier league is open to everyone and the best soccer players in the world are fighting for minutes in the premier league, I would absolutely call the winner world champions. Why wouldn’t I? They’re the best private team in the world
They aren’t the best in the world they are the best in that league. They haven’t played in a tournament open to the world. They played against teams that worked their way up into the league.
It’s not the end of the world but it shows a level of disrespect to everyone else. No other country does it this way
The winner of the NBA Finals is absolutely the best private team in the world, no question. There aren’t even other leagues disputing this because all of their NBA caliber talent leaves to join the NBA.
The city that a team is located in has nothing to do with whether or not they’ve competed against the best international players. It’s completely irrelevant. The competition is open to everyone.
Very negative impact on climate change, you know how Americans say "but China.."? Europeans say "but America and China..."
And a big homelessness problem.
It's not that he published leaks of the dnc. It's that he was actively refused to publish leaked information critical of republicans and russia. He wasn't principled in his motives and to pretend the leaks were good kinda ignores the elephant in the room
Can you quote a single comment in that thread where someone espoused the belief that biased journalists should be imprisoned? Challenge Level: Literally Impossible
>In just two hours of searching the WikiLeaks archive, reporters found the names, villages, and fathers' names of dozens of Afghans credited with providing intelligence to U.S. forces, the paper said.
I can't find the quote, but he told a reporter that people murdered for working with US forces deserve it.
https://www.nbcnews.com/id/wbna38441360
>Assange’s stolen classified documents didn’t just find their way to the Taliban; the indictment points out that WikiLeaks copies were also found in Osama bin Laden’s compound in Abbottabad, Pakistan. During the raid that killed the al-Qaeda leader, U.S. forces recovered “a letter from bin Laden to another member of the terrorist organization al-Qaeda in which bin Laden requested that the member gather the DoD material posted to WikiLeaks”
>Indeed, Assange’s disclosures nearly blew the bin Laden operation. Just one week before the raid, Assange released his “Gitmo files” which contained information that could have tipped off bin Laden that the CIA was closing in on him.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2019/05/28/justice-department-is-right-indict-julian-assange/
I hate how stupid Americans are with guns and gun laws that kids have to have shooter drills. It's something you can expect if a country is at war with attacks on its own lands. But the US is not under attack. So it's crazy this keeps happening to the point of it being desensitizing.
The education system is so flawed, I am still in awe how they keep the country running.
The cultural ignorance and stupidity. A friend spent a year in the US as an exchange student and he got asked if we had refrigerators in Germany, not to mention the numerous questions about Nazis, if Hitler is still alive and why his relatives aren't in politics. Kann es sein, dass du dumm bist? Actually regarded.
The political system. Shit's fucked, from party aligned supreme court judges to trench and tribal politics, influence of big money. They are literally just larping as a democracy and anyone who still defends that system is tripping out of their mind on copium.
I’m not gonna lie, in my high school Spanish class (early 2000s) we learned that people in Spain and other European countries don’t use refrigeration like Americans and therefore will shop for fresh ingredients daily instead of storing things.
the iraq war was an unmitigated disaster and shows why unipolarity is a mistake
edit: and the bush admin should 100% be persecuted for war crimes. at least that would save america some face.
After WW2 America got to export a lot of its garbage decisions to the rest of us. You failed to implement basic marketing standards and you let Ford and GM dictate your urban planning. You are still, as of my knowledge the only people to eat sweet food for breakfast. Your cities are garbage, the amount of paring lots is just perplexing.
On the other hand I have a favourable view of most foreign policy decisions Merica has made
I know cake for breakfast is insane, but it's tasty man. It's very occasional for most adults I know, though. Marketing cereal to kids, tasty as it is, is fucked.
Mine is that Trump as President was the predictable result of the worst parts of American culture.
Obsession with wealth and fame as markers of success and rising to the top with a mentally of any means justify the ends. A culture where drama and “all attention is good attention” is substituted for education, merit, and integrity.
As a rightwing former-american who moved to europe. I despise everything about the US. It's a failed state.
-The urban design is anti-human, hyper-capitalist and evil. Car-dependency is a plague to community and creating a sense of belonging.
-The roads are built in a way to maximise car deaths by prioritising speed over safety (because things are always so far apart in the US), while most of the rest of the western world cares about building roads to save lives. This is why the US is the only western country that has had car deaths consistently rising.
-The food industry is evil and exists to keep americans fat.
-The political discourse is theatrical and sophomoric.
-Americans sound like uniquely dumb people. They're ignorant as fuck.
-Leftist critical theories will lead to the destruction of the US and probably the rest of western civilisation if we don't defeat it. The cancerous hyper-individualist rot is very advanced in the US.
I can understand there's legitimate criticisms to make about the US, but you calling the most powerful, richest, and most technologically advanced state for the last 2 centuries a failed state is really unhinged ngl, you're living in fantasy land my friend.
What's the connecting thread between critical theory and "hyper-individualism"? If anything, leftist theory encourages solidarity and criticizes neoliberalism for producing the asocial, atomized individual.
leftist theories are hyper-individualist, in that they think each individual can "craft" their own identity and purpose, that each individual is necessarily separate to their history, tradition and culture, that they can craft their own, that they're not "bound" by their history, tradition and heritage.
>encourages solidarity and criticizes neoliberalism for producing the asocial, atomized individual
Maybe they wax poetic about it but they don't actually do anything to live non-asocial, atomized and individual lives. Leftists are the biggest disconnected losers out there from my experience, and they most often actively despise their heritage, history and culture. Conservatism and nationalism is the natural answer to the neoliberal atomised hellscape we live in.
I had a long, detailed comment written out, but I accidentally deleted it. It seems like we are using different definitions for the same words. When I refer to "leftist theory", I am referring to the textual tradition emerging from Marxism and Anarchism. Under that framework, your characterization that leftist theory understands the individual as "separate to their history, tradition, and culture", is exactly wrong. Marxist theories understand individual subjectivity as a product of material and cultural forces at play within a given society. A common critique of this kind of analysis that it is too mechanical and doesn't account for individual agency.
As for the second part of your post... I'm not sure how the behavior or imputed character flaws of people that you've interacted with have any bearing on having an understanding of political theory, but you do you. Your conception that social processes like atomization can be overcome by individual action is remarkably individualist for someone that seems to despise individualism. A leftist approach to overcoming atomization would be collective struggle to change the material base of society, or at least to implement policy that creates pro-social space.
>Marxist theories understand individual subjectivity as a product of material and cultural forces at play within a given society. A common critique of this kind of analysis that it is too mechanical and doesn't account for individual agency.
Again, I don't doubt the theories wax poetic about these things, but we see how it plays out in reality. All these university kids learning the watered down version of these things in "xx studies" degrees and in these critical theory-based courses are *obsessed* with their individual identity. They *hate* their heritage and tradition (the white ones at least) and throw it away to *craft their own identity from literally nothing.* This is hardcore individualism for white people, collectivism for BIPOC people. You might see your black nationalist marxist like Mark Lamont Hill being a big collectivist and loves his black history and culture, but the issue is that they don't allow white people to feel the same, so really these theories are wholly inconsistent.
>can be overcome by individual action is remarkably individualist for someone that seems to despise individualism.
That's not what I said. It should be overcome by society collectively working towards a nationalist framework that brainwashes the population to consider their particular national history as beautiful, unique, timeless and worth preserving. I want what marc lamont hill wants for black people, but for all peoples.
I'm still not understanding the distinction you're making between individualism and collectivism. When white people take these "critical-theory based courses", its individualism because it teaches that they can "craft their identity from literally nothing," but when black people are exposed to the same curriculum, they come to the opposite conclusion? I don't follow the logic here. You also characterize Marc Lamont Hill as both marxist and collectivist (contradicting your earlier point that marxism is individualist), but not really because "they don't allow white people to feel the same." Why would that be a criteria for marxism or collectivism? That would just be racism. It seems like you just think collectivism is good and individualism is bad so you characterize people you like as collectivists and people you don't like as individualist, whether or not those terms actually apply to anything they've actually said. It would help if you analysed a specific claim from Marc Lamont Hill. I am not familiar with his theoretical work.
I am not sure how roads are built to maximize car deaths? Idk where you lived in the USA but who’s prioritizing speed over safety other than individuals? There’s a speed limit for a reason, whether someone breaks that law is up to the individual. And roads are built for multi-purposes, saving lives, transportation for a function economy, whatever. Laws like stopping for emergency vehicles are meant to make it so that people can be saved quicker. I fail to see how they aren’t prioritized to save lives? And maybe car deaths are increasing due to phone usage or our failing roads in many cities? Which is why repairing and creating more roads probably is for the better, not the worse.
Critical theories are iffy, but I think its hyperbolic to say they’ll lead to any destruction. I will just use CRT as an example since its the one I am mostly familiar with. CRT could be utilized in a way to educate people on racial inequality and inequities. There are facets of the USA that benefit the majority and harm the minority. Understanding how they came to be and what they currently are is important to form solutions. There are aspects I don’t agree with in CRT but in an American context, it is something that should be discussed.
I mostly agree with everything else though, food industry is predatory but that is being fought against in many ways, political discourse is undeniably horrible, Americans being ignorant is subjective since I’d argue most people are ignorant in many ways.
>I am not sure how roads are built to maximize car deaths? Idk where you lived in the USA but who’s prioritizing speed over safety other than individuals?
[This vid e](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bglWCuCMSWc)xplains it in high detail. Essentially:
-There's 1 main method all roads in the US create speed limits, and this is extremely arbitrary and not based on the function/purpose of the road/street (85th percentile method). It's only based on the actual speed of drivers on the road before the limit is set. It makes more sense to consider things like: purpose of the street and safety when setting speed limits.
-Speed is the #1 factor in whether a collision with a pedestrian is fatal, and this % chance of fatality increases dramatically even beyond 20/30 miles/hour.
-European cities set their "city centre" speed like around 30-50km/hr (like 15-30miles/hour)- meanwhile in many US cities you're looking at 40-80miles/hour.
-US roads are enormous and have so much space, meaning drivers feel comfortable on a huge road and drive faster. So you could have an enormous, comfy road in the US with a speed limit of 30, but since it's so comfy people are actually driving >60. EU roads are much narrower and subconsciously make you more aware of your speed.
American designers just ignore all this cuz americans don't really care about human life and only care about moving cars through traffic supposedly as fast as possible.
I'm sorry, but I don't think you actually understand what constitutes a critical theory or what CRT actually is. I can understand, after having read a work of critical theory, you could disagree with its premises or conclusions or think its methodology was sloppy, but characterizing all critical theories as "iffy" is just hand-waving. I think some of Adorno's critique of the Culture Industry or Christopher Lasch's "Culture of Narcissm" would be well-received on the sub if everyone was too afraid of the spectre of communism leaping off the page and possessing them to actually engage with it.
That dune is a good movie. It's unfair to Amerifats because it doesn't have many scenes to clap at, and it's not Michael Bay enough to hold their attention.
The tipping culture you americucks cultivated and perpetuate is absolutely insane, and I hope to all that is holy it never spreads to Europe or anywhere else in the world. This is something you need to end before we all get consumed.
I think the system of government is outdated and should be slowly but surely be replaced by a proportional representation system with multiple parties.
from my outside, european perspective it just seems like the system causes the huge rift in american politics. Dest tends to say it reflects just how the public thinks, but imo first past the post inherently causes the devision.
one of the biggest problems is the forced coalition between libertarians, conservatives and outright theocrats in the republican party. Just forcing the population to take one of two options leads to us vs them thinking.
ecconomic liberals, greens and social democrats in germany passed legal weed yesterday. meanwhile ecconomic liberals in america literally think non republicans are communists.
As much as people look down on political science, it is a pretty robust effect that plurality voting leads to devision and fighting between parties while proportional representation leads to partys working together.
dont even get me started on gerrymandering, voter id, campaign financing. the system is just not meant to represent the amiracan people but strategically supress or make irrelevant certain sections of it. The founding fathers actually seemed to unappologetically confirm this too.
At the very least there needs to be a system of creative destruction so different parties can become dominant. the GOP is rotten corpse of a party, its only relevance comes from first past the post where voting for another conservative party would just weaken the overall movement. same for the democrats too tbh, they also need competition (but atleast they are less defunct).
Despite being such a car centric and obssessed region, we pretty much dont get any of the cooler cars that the euros and asians get because the dumbass drivers here only want suvs and f150s with 50 gizmos in it. its an NA gruoe tbh
Americans are truly ignorant about the rest of the world in a way that other countries just aren't. For example, in other countries' literature courses you usually read a good mix of literature from different countries, which encompass a wide range of historical and philosophical topics. In America, we basically only read American lit and event then mostly only the ones about slavery or segregation.
I really think this is a big contributor to why Americans have such a big issue understanding how non-Americans think, and why they project uniquely American values (e.g. the obscene emphasis placed on "freedom" or the desire to own guns) into other nations.
2 party bs is pure idiotism. Everyone want to vote for winning party and are not voting for who they support. Why would you change your vote for someone who has more chance than your ideal but not change the faulty voting system.
The collective delusion that the USA is plagued by, something so notable that it has its own name - American exceptionalism. Most cringe thing in the world.
Also completely hate how bombastic a lot of Americans are, in particular your celebrities, which makes a lot of your TV unbearable. The editing plays into this to over-dramatise everything even further, be it the music, cuts, or dumb sound effects... Just watch some American versions of British TV shows and compare the two, it's night and day.
The fact that we’ve culturally colonized the world, and it’s probably not a good thing. At all.
Example: when I’m looking for a movie to watch, if it’s “foreign,” that’s an immediate +10pts to my decision—hit me with those subtitles, baby!
American culture war nonsense spreading to Europe, causing large segments of European discourse (especially among younger people) to be analyzed through a lens tainted by American politics. This is especially true of any conversations relating to race. I've seen educated Europeans unironically use terms like "BIPOC", despite the fact that it makes *no sense whatsoever* in a European context.
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there were BLM protests in Poland, country with almost no black people.
It makes no sense in any context.
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Ok, I'm happy to hear your pitch. Give me a sentence where you would use it.
100% right, plus the easy to which they abandon allies when they become bored of wars...
It barely makes sense in the US so…
They did it to exclude Asians because they're the minorities that are successful. Can't be oppressed if winners are in the losers only club. /S
The BIPOC of Germany: Black = Blacks Indigenious: Germanic germans Poc = People of Color = All ethnic Minorities So the only evil Bipoc-oppressing races for Germany apparently are the other white europeans like frenchites, bongers, poles, spaniards and slavs, and white americans? I think that kinda was Hitler's take if you consider the Versaille treaty lmao
The lack of good, clean, safe public transportation is fucking wild. It makes total sense, mind you. I get that our cities were really made for cars, but fuuuuuck. I live in Europe now and I haven't even kind of needed or wanted a car in the past 2 years.
Yall have to pay for how you’ve spread culture war bullshit across the globe. Cause why do I as a non American have to hear the words ‘woke’ spoken by my government? That’s yalls problem.
We got a lot of it from European sociologists and philosophers through the 20th century, we've just [unfortunately] dominated the online discussion recently. Plus, we got our racism from somewhere.
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Hey, can you give me a quick summary of any of the Frankfurt school thinkers' thought and how their particular form of critique has "trickled down" into corporations? It sounds like you don't have the first idea of what you're talking about. It seems like you think deconstructionism somehow dangerous, when really its a method of analyzing cultural texts . You're just repeating a conspiracy theory.
Sounds like it's y'alls problem if your culture is so amenable.
"Its not our fault we're stupid and regarded and its spreading, its yours because you listen to us" great thinking process buddy, at least you know
It just means your country also has morons lol. My country does this as well where we blame America for our stupid people and it’s so stupid.
Every large group of people will have different types of people, yes. Does that excuse americans for spreading their hurtful retoric worldwide?
Zero responsibility lol. I don't see anything hurtful rhetoric from Europe, Asia, Africa, South America, spreading in any serious way into America. How can you be so influenced by our culture yet we aren't by yours?
I understand you consider all those university protests from muslims as not hateful then lmao
What? As in pro-palestine protestors? I'm willing to admit we have regards and a cultural divide. The average eurotard will see their regards and cultural divide and blame it on America.
What your little brain cannot understand is looking at the source of the cultural divide. Most people with a brain and capability to look at things will be able to clearly pin point most of regardetion on americans, while you people champion and glorify the ability to murder yourselves on the streets in the name of freedom.
The cope is reaching critical levels, sir. I'm curious, since you have a brain, can you clearly pinpoint all of Europe's or your countries cultural issues and how it's completely America's fault?
Americans are fat and I don't like that
you hate them because you aren't them
Or otherwise
I hate them because I am them.
I think the American attitude to long sleeve shirts is idiotic. Some places in the rest of the world have a dress code including long sleeves and we are sick of Americans harping on about their right to bare arms.
the anti-war opinions are so common idk if I'd even count those as anti-american
extreme-individualism as a cultural trait is cringe and a bad way to organise society
What do you mean by extreme individualism? Got an example? (Not American btw just curious)
I used to disagree and think this mindset was cringe, but America has greatly changed in the last 20 years in ways I thought it never would. Growing up in the 90s, there was a lingering sense of patriotism and a collective conscious of taking pride in building on the legacy of the Great American Experiment. It genuinely felt like the the country was healing from its sins, like racism, slavery, the Vietnam War, etc etc. and it definitely felt like there was some kind of broad American identity that transcended regional, or group, identity. Leftists would say this was just liberal cope, but most weren’t even born before the 2000s and never experienced this zeitgeist. Then 9/11 happened, we entered into 2 forever wars and the internet and social media exploded onto the scene. The first two things disillusioned an entire generation of kids/young adults (and likely traumatized them as well, especially those of us within direct proximity of NYC), and subsequent generations as well. The third thing, social media, has individualism-maxxed an entire generation, and subsequent generations as well. Taken together, I can feel a palpable rift in the glue holding the social fabric together that was definitely *not* there when I was growing up. As social media algorithms have progressed, we are seeing this expressed in a tangible sense as people are getting sorted into more disparate, more extreme boxes, be they political, social, ideological etc. These are just my personal thoughts about what I’ve observed in 30+ years of being an American, but I’m curious about what you personally mean by “extreme-individualism” in your OP u/Archi-Parchi I’m around Destiny’s age and would also be interested in his thoughts and feelings about this
>Then 9/11 happened, we entered into 2 forever wars and the internet and social media exploded onto the scene. Don't forget the financial crisis :). "9/11 -> Iraq & Afghanistan -> 2007 -> Social Media" was just a perfect sequence of dominoes to create the shitstorm of cynicism we're currently in. I don't know if it is necessarily “extreme-individualism” that has caused this because I think that has been present to some degree for decades, if not since our inception. Though I agree people's sense of patriotism being evaporated, as well as social media and social trends pushing people more towards this “extreme-individualism”, has made that level of individualism much more unsustainable. I was definitely victim to this, as I'm a younger millennial (almost a zoomer Sweatstiny), but a lot recent events like Jan 6. and the Ukraine-Russia conflict and watching Tiny has woken me up quite a bit.
Yea very good point. I think I’ve blocked out that period of time lol since I was in the tail-end of college/entering into the workforce in increasingly exploitative low-paying entry-level positions as became the norm during the financial crisis and beyond. I think that definitely contributed, and most definitely grew the dissident far-left *and* far-right we see today (Occupy Movement, conspiracy theories, Bernie Sanders, anti-establishment movements and the rise of Trump, socialism, etc). My post is just my personal interpretation of what “extreme individualism” feels like to me when I think back to my youth til now. America felt like a happy medium between collectivism and individualism in my memories, and in media from the time; in modern times, it definitely feels like a pendulum swing to more extreme individualism, in its most vapid and narcissistic glory. As an addendum- I am aware that my memories may be deceiving me about the “material conditions on the ground” (as Hasan would say), or I could have grown up in a uniquely blissful region of the US, or had a particularly blessed childhood. That being said, in all of my conversations with other elder millennials (and older generations- boomers, Gen X), many of whom grew up scattered across the country, and are of varying ethnic/religious backgrounds, the vast majority share my memory of a generally cohesive American culture. Both of my parents were hippies and steeped in counter-culture and raged against the machine during the ‘60s/‘70s, and yet, like most hippies, were eventually neatly brought back into the fold. I am worried that this cohesion is no longer strong enough to bring those currently in angsty rebellion against the system back into the fold, and I don’t think that I need to explain why that spells trouble for America moving forward.
>America felt like a happy medium between collectivism and individualism in my memories, and in media from the time; in modern times, it definitely feels like a pendulum swing to more extreme individualism, in its most vapid and narcissistic glory. Yeah I suppose applying the term "extreme individualism" might not be the best word to describe previous generation's individualism. I think I would probably be more correct to say America and its culture has always trended more individualistic than most other countries and stuck out to a certain regard in this. I think it might be more precise to reserve "extreme individualism" for this new wave. >Both of my parents were hippies and steeped in counter-culture and raged against the machine during the ‘60s/‘70s, and yet, like most hippies, were eventually neatly brought back into the fold. Well even when I watch movies, docs or read about that era, while those counter-culture movements were very antagonist towards "America", it felt like there was still some underlying love or appreciation for America (obviously not always the case). My mind naturally thinks of Peter Fonda in *Easy Rider*, what is now one of *the* classic counter-culture films, whose character is decked out in the red, white and blue the whole movie. I think that maybe made it easier for them to come back in the fold, because there was still a little bit of glue left. Also it probably helped that most hippies were poor and it's harder to tour with the dead if you want to get a 9-to-5 to raise a family. I think there is still hope considering myself. With Destiny taking off and the decline of Hasan, I'm a little more optimistic about the left becoming more liberal and stepping back from the "America bad!" ledge. I don't know about the trumpels though. They think they're the true patriots yet want to seemingly destroy 95% of American institutions. Also, for fuck's sake we need to ban TikTok and make it be sold to an American company.
The fact they call themselves a world champions in American football and basketball. You can’t be a world champion if the only people that compete are teams in America
The US crushes at Olympic Basketball, winning 16/19 tournaments we participated in. Add American football, and I'd expect similar results.
For Baseball they do the same thing and they lost the last WBC
Yeah, baseball is way more popular abroad, so that one is silly with much stiffer competition. I'd bet we're largely responsible for making it super popular in Korea and Japan though. I'm sure our win-rate for Basketball will go down as it becomes more popular abroad.
We are responsible. Apparently an American English teacher brought baseball to Japan in the 1800s and it became just as popular over there as it was in America in the late 19th/early 20th century. It was an American missionary who brought baseball to Korea originally, but it didn’t really take off until the Korean Civil War, and the subsequent American military presence in South Korea in the 1950s.
Ah, very cool.
Nba for example. The best players in the world rn are majority foreign. They’re weirdly concentrated in the top 10, but the league itself is internationally sourced. All the best basketball players are in the NBA. I personally wouldnt call them “world champs” cuz i dont like imprecise language, but it’s also pretty much accurate. No team outside the league would have a chance in hell competing
There's 1 Canadian team.
What difference does it make if the teams are located in America? All the best players in the world are in the NBA
Because it’s not open to the world is it. It’s the US and 1 Canadian team (according to someone else I don’t know). It’s not like Norway could enter a team if they wanted to
It’s not exclusive to the US, but the number of teams is limited yeah. But either way, Norwegian players are allowed to compete. The league could move to any country in the world tomorrow, it would be the same 500 players. So why does it matter if the teams are located in the US?
Because you would never call club leagues such as the NBA or the premier league the world. It’s only considered the world when it’s international (when talking about teams)
idk anything about soccer, but if the premier league is open to everyone and the best soccer players in the world are fighting for minutes in the premier league, I would absolutely call the winner world champions. Why wouldn’t I? They’re the best private team in the world
They aren’t the best in the world they are the best in that league. They haven’t played in a tournament open to the world. They played against teams that worked their way up into the league. It’s not the end of the world but it shows a level of disrespect to everyone else. No other country does it this way
The winner of the NBA Finals is absolutely the best private team in the world, no question. There aren’t even other leagues disputing this because all of their NBA caliber talent leaves to join the NBA. The city that a team is located in has nothing to do with whether or not they’ve competed against the best international players. It’s completely irrelevant. The competition is open to everyone.
Very negative impact on climate change, you know how Americans say "but China.."? Europeans say "but America and China..." And a big homelessness problem.
Baseball games are way too long.
American race science is dumb and corrosive
Assange isnt a hero, hes a russian agent https://www.bu.edu/bostonia/2017/julian-assange-wikileaks-not-heroes/
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I don't care if he's a Russian, Chinese or Malaysian agent. I think the leaks were good no matter what source they came from
It's not that he published leaks of the dnc. It's that he was actively refused to publish leaked information critical of republicans and russia. He wasn't principled in his motives and to pretend the leaks were good kinda ignores the elephant in the room
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??? Literally nobody here has ever advocated for that.
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Link?
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Can you quote a single comment in that thread where someone espoused the belief that biased journalists should be imprisoned? Challenge Level: Literally Impossible
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>In just two hours of searching the WikiLeaks archive, reporters found the names, villages, and fathers' names of dozens of Afghans credited with providing intelligence to U.S. forces, the paper said. I can't find the quote, but he told a reporter that people murdered for working with US forces deserve it. https://www.nbcnews.com/id/wbna38441360 >Assange’s stolen classified documents didn’t just find their way to the Taliban; the indictment points out that WikiLeaks copies were also found in Osama bin Laden’s compound in Abbottabad, Pakistan. During the raid that killed the al-Qaeda leader, U.S. forces recovered “a letter from bin Laden to another member of the terrorist organization al-Qaeda in which bin Laden requested that the member gather the DoD material posted to WikiLeaks” >Indeed, Assange’s disclosures nearly blew the bin Laden operation. Just one week before the raid, Assange released his “Gitmo files” which contained information that could have tipped off bin Laden that the CIA was closing in on him. https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2019/05/28/justice-department-is-right-indict-julian-assange/
I hate how stupid Americans are with guns and gun laws that kids have to have shooter drills. It's something you can expect if a country is at war with attacks on its own lands. But the US is not under attack. So it's crazy this keeps happening to the point of it being desensitizing.
The education system is so flawed, I am still in awe how they keep the country running. The cultural ignorance and stupidity. A friend spent a year in the US as an exchange student and he got asked if we had refrigerators in Germany, not to mention the numerous questions about Nazis, if Hitler is still alive and why his relatives aren't in politics. Kann es sein, dass du dumm bist? Actually regarded. The political system. Shit's fucked, from party aligned supreme court judges to trench and tribal politics, influence of big money. They are literally just larping as a democracy and anyone who still defends that system is tripping out of their mind on copium.
I’m not gonna lie, in my high school Spanish class (early 2000s) we learned that people in Spain and other European countries don’t use refrigeration like Americans and therefore will shop for fresh ingredients daily instead of storing things.
American exceptionalism and treating other countries like they are children with no autonomy is super cringe to me.
American legal system is poop way too p2w and stuff like lifeterms for supreme court and shit
I dont really care for apple pie or the superbowl.
I like apple Pie but yeah, I don't give a shit abouy superbowl
the iraq war was an unmitigated disaster and shows why unipolarity is a mistake edit: and the bush admin should 100% be persecuted for war crimes. at least that would save america some face.
After WW2 America got to export a lot of its garbage decisions to the rest of us. You failed to implement basic marketing standards and you let Ford and GM dictate your urban planning. You are still, as of my knowledge the only people to eat sweet food for breakfast. Your cities are garbage, the amount of paring lots is just perplexing. On the other hand I have a favourable view of most foreign policy decisions Merica has made
Bro not everyone is eating sugary cereal for breakfast most people drink coffee for breakfast along with like something that involving a egg and bread
I was thinking pancakes for breakfast, that's kinda what i associate with America. And orange juice
the bread in america contains sugar .. it tastes like cake for all non muricans.
I know cake for breakfast is insane, but it's tasty man. It's very occasional for most adults I know, though. Marketing cereal to kids, tasty as it is, is fucked.
Mine is that Trump as President was the predictable result of the worst parts of American culture. Obsession with wealth and fame as markers of success and rising to the top with a mentally of any means justify the ends. A culture where drama and “all attention is good attention” is substituted for education, merit, and integrity.
Your bread sucks
As a rightwing former-american who moved to europe. I despise everything about the US. It's a failed state. -The urban design is anti-human, hyper-capitalist and evil. Car-dependency is a plague to community and creating a sense of belonging. -The roads are built in a way to maximise car deaths by prioritising speed over safety (because things are always so far apart in the US), while most of the rest of the western world cares about building roads to save lives. This is why the US is the only western country that has had car deaths consistently rising. -The food industry is evil and exists to keep americans fat. -The political discourse is theatrical and sophomoric. -Americans sound like uniquely dumb people. They're ignorant as fuck. -Leftist critical theories will lead to the destruction of the US and probably the rest of western civilisation if we don't defeat it. The cancerous hyper-individualist rot is very advanced in the US.
I can understand there's legitimate criticisms to make about the US, but you calling the most powerful, richest, and most technologically advanced state for the last 2 centuries a failed state is really unhinged ngl, you're living in fantasy land my friend.
What's the connecting thread between critical theory and "hyper-individualism"? If anything, leftist theory encourages solidarity and criticizes neoliberalism for producing the asocial, atomized individual.
leftist theories are hyper-individualist, in that they think each individual can "craft" their own identity and purpose, that each individual is necessarily separate to their history, tradition and culture, that they can craft their own, that they're not "bound" by their history, tradition and heritage. >encourages solidarity and criticizes neoliberalism for producing the asocial, atomized individual Maybe they wax poetic about it but they don't actually do anything to live non-asocial, atomized and individual lives. Leftists are the biggest disconnected losers out there from my experience, and they most often actively despise their heritage, history and culture. Conservatism and nationalism is the natural answer to the neoliberal atomised hellscape we live in.
I had a long, detailed comment written out, but I accidentally deleted it. It seems like we are using different definitions for the same words. When I refer to "leftist theory", I am referring to the textual tradition emerging from Marxism and Anarchism. Under that framework, your characterization that leftist theory understands the individual as "separate to their history, tradition, and culture", is exactly wrong. Marxist theories understand individual subjectivity as a product of material and cultural forces at play within a given society. A common critique of this kind of analysis that it is too mechanical and doesn't account for individual agency. As for the second part of your post... I'm not sure how the behavior or imputed character flaws of people that you've interacted with have any bearing on having an understanding of political theory, but you do you. Your conception that social processes like atomization can be overcome by individual action is remarkably individualist for someone that seems to despise individualism. A leftist approach to overcoming atomization would be collective struggle to change the material base of society, or at least to implement policy that creates pro-social space.
>Marxist theories understand individual subjectivity as a product of material and cultural forces at play within a given society. A common critique of this kind of analysis that it is too mechanical and doesn't account for individual agency. Again, I don't doubt the theories wax poetic about these things, but we see how it plays out in reality. All these university kids learning the watered down version of these things in "xx studies" degrees and in these critical theory-based courses are *obsessed* with their individual identity. They *hate* their heritage and tradition (the white ones at least) and throw it away to *craft their own identity from literally nothing.* This is hardcore individualism for white people, collectivism for BIPOC people. You might see your black nationalist marxist like Mark Lamont Hill being a big collectivist and loves his black history and culture, but the issue is that they don't allow white people to feel the same, so really these theories are wholly inconsistent. >can be overcome by individual action is remarkably individualist for someone that seems to despise individualism. That's not what I said. It should be overcome by society collectively working towards a nationalist framework that brainwashes the population to consider their particular national history as beautiful, unique, timeless and worth preserving. I want what marc lamont hill wants for black people, but for all peoples.
I'm still not understanding the distinction you're making between individualism and collectivism. When white people take these "critical-theory based courses", its individualism because it teaches that they can "craft their identity from literally nothing," but when black people are exposed to the same curriculum, they come to the opposite conclusion? I don't follow the logic here. You also characterize Marc Lamont Hill as both marxist and collectivist (contradicting your earlier point that marxism is individualist), but not really because "they don't allow white people to feel the same." Why would that be a criteria for marxism or collectivism? That would just be racism. It seems like you just think collectivism is good and individualism is bad so you characterize people you like as collectivists and people you don't like as individualist, whether or not those terms actually apply to anything they've actually said. It would help if you analysed a specific claim from Marc Lamont Hill. I am not familiar with his theoretical work.
I am not sure how roads are built to maximize car deaths? Idk where you lived in the USA but who’s prioritizing speed over safety other than individuals? There’s a speed limit for a reason, whether someone breaks that law is up to the individual. And roads are built for multi-purposes, saving lives, transportation for a function economy, whatever. Laws like stopping for emergency vehicles are meant to make it so that people can be saved quicker. I fail to see how they aren’t prioritized to save lives? And maybe car deaths are increasing due to phone usage or our failing roads in many cities? Which is why repairing and creating more roads probably is for the better, not the worse. Critical theories are iffy, but I think its hyperbolic to say they’ll lead to any destruction. I will just use CRT as an example since its the one I am mostly familiar with. CRT could be utilized in a way to educate people on racial inequality and inequities. There are facets of the USA that benefit the majority and harm the minority. Understanding how they came to be and what they currently are is important to form solutions. There are aspects I don’t agree with in CRT but in an American context, it is something that should be discussed. I mostly agree with everything else though, food industry is predatory but that is being fought against in many ways, political discourse is undeniably horrible, Americans being ignorant is subjective since I’d argue most people are ignorant in many ways.
>I am not sure how roads are built to maximize car deaths? Idk where you lived in the USA but who’s prioritizing speed over safety other than individuals? [This vid e](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bglWCuCMSWc)xplains it in high detail. Essentially: -There's 1 main method all roads in the US create speed limits, and this is extremely arbitrary and not based on the function/purpose of the road/street (85th percentile method). It's only based on the actual speed of drivers on the road before the limit is set. It makes more sense to consider things like: purpose of the street and safety when setting speed limits. -Speed is the #1 factor in whether a collision with a pedestrian is fatal, and this % chance of fatality increases dramatically even beyond 20/30 miles/hour. -European cities set their "city centre" speed like around 30-50km/hr (like 15-30miles/hour)- meanwhile in many US cities you're looking at 40-80miles/hour. -US roads are enormous and have so much space, meaning drivers feel comfortable on a huge road and drive faster. So you could have an enormous, comfy road in the US with a speed limit of 30, but since it's so comfy people are actually driving >60. EU roads are much narrower and subconsciously make you more aware of your speed. American designers just ignore all this cuz americans don't really care about human life and only care about moving cars through traffic supposedly as fast as possible.
I'm sorry, but I don't think you actually understand what constitutes a critical theory or what CRT actually is. I can understand, after having read a work of critical theory, you could disagree with its premises or conclusions or think its methodology was sloppy, but characterizing all critical theories as "iffy" is just hand-waving. I think some of Adorno's critique of the Culture Industry or Christopher Lasch's "Culture of Narcissm" would be well-received on the sub if everyone was too afraid of the spectre of communism leaping off the page and possessing them to actually engage with it.
That dune is a good movie. It's unfair to Amerifats because it doesn't have many scenes to clap at, and it's not Michael Bay enough to hold their attention.
The tipping culture you americucks cultivated and perpetuate is absolutely insane, and I hope to all that is holy it never spreads to Europe or anywhere else in the world. This is something you need to end before we all get consumed.
I think the system of government is outdated and should be slowly but surely be replaced by a proportional representation system with multiple parties. from my outside, european perspective it just seems like the system causes the huge rift in american politics. Dest tends to say it reflects just how the public thinks, but imo first past the post inherently causes the devision. one of the biggest problems is the forced coalition between libertarians, conservatives and outright theocrats in the republican party. Just forcing the population to take one of two options leads to us vs them thinking. ecconomic liberals, greens and social democrats in germany passed legal weed yesterday. meanwhile ecconomic liberals in america literally think non republicans are communists. As much as people look down on political science, it is a pretty robust effect that plurality voting leads to devision and fighting between parties while proportional representation leads to partys working together. dont even get me started on gerrymandering, voter id, campaign financing. the system is just not meant to represent the amiracan people but strategically supress or make irrelevant certain sections of it. The founding fathers actually seemed to unappologetically confirm this too. At the very least there needs to be a system of creative destruction so different parties can become dominant. the GOP is rotten corpse of a party, its only relevance comes from first past the post where voting for another conservative party would just weaken the overall movement. same for the democrats too tbh, they also need competition (but atleast they are less defunct).
American city planning is dystopian and The Super Bowl is a circus compared to the World Cup.
Despite being such a car centric and obssessed region, we pretty much dont get any of the cooler cars that the euros and asians get because the dumbass drivers here only want suvs and f150s with 50 gizmos in it. its an NA gruoe tbh
Snowden is kind of a hero, Assange is not really
Americans sports suck. The superbowl is just unwatchable. Slow paced basically just an advert fest
America is a terror state and should be bombed to be stopped
Apple pie is the worst pie.
Apple pie isn't even American, that's our shit (and it's great)
I’m just goofin’. Apple pie is tasty as fuck.
Americans are truly ignorant about the rest of the world in a way that other countries just aren't. For example, in other countries' literature courses you usually read a good mix of literature from different countries, which encompass a wide range of historical and philosophical topics. In America, we basically only read American lit and event then mostly only the ones about slavery or segregation. I really think this is a big contributor to why Americans have such a big issue understanding how non-Americans think, and why they project uniquely American values (e.g. the obscene emphasis placed on "freedom" or the desire to own guns) into other nations.
2 party bs is pure idiotism. Everyone want to vote for winning party and are not voting for who they support. Why would you change your vote for someone who has more chance than your ideal but not change the faulty voting system.
The collective delusion that the USA is plagued by, something so notable that it has its own name - American exceptionalism. Most cringe thing in the world. Also completely hate how bombastic a lot of Americans are, in particular your celebrities, which makes a lot of your TV unbearable. The editing plays into this to over-dramatise everything even further, be it the music, cuts, or dumb sound effects... Just watch some American versions of British TV shows and compare the two, it's night and day.
The fact that we’ve culturally colonized the world, and it’s probably not a good thing. At all. Example: when I’m looking for a movie to watch, if it’s “foreign,” that’s an immediate +10pts to my decision—hit me with those subtitles, baby!