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Because they weren't being used as a weapon to do damage.
"In another way, a more true and symbolic way, she is impaled on Oryx's blade. She has thrown all her might at him, and he has answered. He has snuffed her fledgling divinity and her meager claim to royalty, he has exposed Mara to the raw and caustic hostility of his High War. She has been defeated by the sword logic.
She dances down the blade and steps into his throne world. The Harbingers give her the gate and she takes the step. She is dead, consumed by Oryx: She is dead in his will, his Ascendant Realm. There was no other way inside except this true way."
https://www.ishtar-collective.net/entries/tyrannocide-v
"So now the decision is nigh. The Harbingers, which to prepare?” Shuro was determined to see this all through. Excitement was taught to be kept at bay.
“We cannot send them all.” Portia reminded.
“All but one, the oldest. It stays with us. Sedia, Kalli, Shuro, take the children, tell her they are to be planted into a dead thing to have children of their own.” A plan hid behind Illyn’s eyes, but Techeuns do not share their eyes with others.
https://www.ishtar-collective.net/cards/the-coven
She wasn't using them to damage the Dreadnaught. She was using them so when she died and went to the Ascendent Realm, she could enter Oryx's Throne.
Does that still answer the question however? Because, in piercing the throne world or not, the harbingers still crashed and exploded against the dreadnought. In lore, the harbingers doing such had shattered entire fleets and crushed asteroids. I would think the ‘incidental wielding’ of many Harbingers would still carry more impact than a large cabal ship at ramming speed.
And we see that during the cutscene! It's one of the clues of Mara's greater plan. Remember, the Harbingers aren't just missiles, they're alive, intelligent, sentient. They can make their own decisions. On their approach, we see then cut through several Hive ships, before reaching the Dreadnaught. Every ship that they make contact with they burst through and destroy in a fireball. When they reach the Dreadnaught, instead of doing any physical damage, their glow increases and then they vanish. There's no fireball, no sign of damage at all.
To me, at least, that makes it clear that they have destructive capabilities that they use on anything in their way, but once they reach their target, they choose to do their mission, joining with the Dreadnaught, which I will remind is also laterally Oryx's throne pushed into this plane, for Mara's pathway.
Why did she look disappointed / defeated when they visibly didn’t do any damage?
I’m going to chalk it up to Bungie not knowing what they wanted to do with the Harbingers until they wrote about them two years later though
Because they're alive and very old and sentient, and much like the thousands of other Awoken lives (including her brother and herself) she's sacrificing them for the greater plan to stop Oryx and despite the aloof persona she puts on, she cares for her people greatly.
Also the card about the Harbingers being implanted into the Dreadnaught and not being a weapon launched in Taken King.
I understand that Mara intended to die to enter Oryx’s Throne World, but I don’t understand how the Harbingers facilitated that. Why were they necessary? Could anyone Oryx killed just waltz into his Throne World?
Not anyone could. Anyone with a Throne World and voodoo space magic to make the pathway could.
Mara has her own Throne World. So when she dies (Like she did near Pluto) she goes into the Ascendant Realm, towards her Throne. The Harbingers somehow allowed her to redirect herself to go, not to her Throne, but to Oryx's. How exactly they did that, I don't know, but they opened a pathway, and she, with pure willpower directed herself down that path, and not towards her own Throne World.
I would think its because the dreadnought was resisted to stuff like the harbingers because it was paracausal
The cabal are the farthest thing from paracausal they see big ship and attack
Think of it like wearing a bullet proof suit, you won't get hurt by any bullets but if you get run over by a truck your out of luck
Yeah, there's a point at which pure, conventional physics will have you hitting hard enough to match paracausal power.
Something to note is that when we snuck onto the Dreadnought with Eris's ship, when we got detected we were at fairly close range, and we had to immediately gun it and just barely escaped them activating the superweapon, and we were a one person craft. Whatever security is on there certainly would've detected a massive Cabal cruiser, so the only options for how the Cabal actually hit is that they straight up tanked Oryx's ultimate attack (unlikely) or they were coming at them ridiculously fast. At near light speeds, with a craft designed for ramming, it's not unreasonable to imagine even the Dreadnought's armor might break
The Harbingers were intended to destroy Oryx’s fleet and embed themselves into the Dreadnought so Mara could take over Oryx’s throne world after he died. She didn’t want to destroy the Dreadnaught.
Because the harbingers didn’t attack the dreadnaught, they forced their way into oryx his throneworld.
The harbingers and dreadnaught are both in the ascendant plane and the ‘real space plane’.
They interacted with the physical plane. One by destroying the hive fleet and the other by decimating the awoken fleet and Saturns rings.
The cabal ship just rammed the physical portion, it rammed and broke into the thing we see but not unto the thing it really is. That is why we have to crash crotas cremation. We enter the physical structure not the ascendant plane.
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Because they weren't being used as a weapon to do damage. "In another way, a more true and symbolic way, she is impaled on Oryx's blade. She has thrown all her might at him, and he has answered. He has snuffed her fledgling divinity and her meager claim to royalty, he has exposed Mara to the raw and caustic hostility of his High War. She has been defeated by the sword logic. She dances down the blade and steps into his throne world. The Harbingers give her the gate and she takes the step. She is dead, consumed by Oryx: She is dead in his will, his Ascendant Realm. There was no other way inside except this true way." https://www.ishtar-collective.net/entries/tyrannocide-v "So now the decision is nigh. The Harbingers, which to prepare?” Shuro was determined to see this all through. Excitement was taught to be kept at bay. “We cannot send them all.” Portia reminded. “All but one, the oldest. It stays with us. Sedia, Kalli, Shuro, take the children, tell her they are to be planted into a dead thing to have children of their own.” A plan hid behind Illyn’s eyes, but Techeuns do not share their eyes with others. https://www.ishtar-collective.net/cards/the-coven She wasn't using them to damage the Dreadnaught. She was using them so when she died and went to the Ascendent Realm, she could enter Oryx's Throne.
Does that still answer the question however? Because, in piercing the throne world or not, the harbingers still crashed and exploded against the dreadnought. In lore, the harbingers doing such had shattered entire fleets and crushed asteroids. I would think the ‘incidental wielding’ of many Harbingers would still carry more impact than a large cabal ship at ramming speed.
And we see that during the cutscene! It's one of the clues of Mara's greater plan. Remember, the Harbingers aren't just missiles, they're alive, intelligent, sentient. They can make their own decisions. On their approach, we see then cut through several Hive ships, before reaching the Dreadnaught. Every ship that they make contact with they burst through and destroy in a fireball. When they reach the Dreadnaught, instead of doing any physical damage, their glow increases and then they vanish. There's no fireball, no sign of damage at all. To me, at least, that makes it clear that they have destructive capabilities that they use on anything in their way, but once they reach their target, they choose to do their mission, joining with the Dreadnaught, which I will remind is also laterally Oryx's throne pushed into this plane, for Mara's pathway.
Why did she look disappointed / defeated when they visibly didn’t do any damage? I’m going to chalk it up to Bungie not knowing what they wanted to do with the Harbingers until they wrote about them two years later though
Because they're alive and very old and sentient, and much like the thousands of other Awoken lives (including her brother and herself) she's sacrificing them for the greater plan to stop Oryx and despite the aloof persona she puts on, she cares for her people greatly. Also the card about the Harbingers being implanted into the Dreadnaught and not being a weapon launched in Taken King.
Thank you for the explanation, that makes sense!
I understand that Mara intended to die to enter Oryx’s Throne World, but I don’t understand how the Harbingers facilitated that. Why were they necessary? Could anyone Oryx killed just waltz into his Throne World?
Not anyone could. Anyone with a Throne World and voodoo space magic to make the pathway could. Mara has her own Throne World. So when she dies (Like she did near Pluto) she goes into the Ascendant Realm, towards her Throne. The Harbingers somehow allowed her to redirect herself to go, not to her Throne, but to Oryx's. How exactly they did that, I don't know, but they opened a pathway, and she, with pure willpower directed herself down that path, and not towards her own Throne World.
I would think its because the dreadnought was resisted to stuff like the harbingers because it was paracausal The cabal are the farthest thing from paracausal they see big ship and attack Think of it like wearing a bullet proof suit, you won't get hurt by any bullets but if you get run over by a truck your out of luck
I love this comment so much
Yeah, there's a point at which pure, conventional physics will have you hitting hard enough to match paracausal power. Something to note is that when we snuck onto the Dreadnought with Eris's ship, when we got detected we were at fairly close range, and we had to immediately gun it and just barely escaped them activating the superweapon, and we were a one person craft. Whatever security is on there certainly would've detected a massive Cabal cruiser, so the only options for how the Cabal actually hit is that they straight up tanked Oryx's ultimate attack (unlikely) or they were coming at them ridiculously fast. At near light speeds, with a craft designed for ramming, it's not unreasonable to imagine even the Dreadnought's armor might break
Sigh… We are Cabal. We eat the mountains, and drink the seas.
The Harbingers were intended to destroy Oryx’s fleet and embed themselves into the Dreadnought so Mara could take over Oryx’s throne world after he died. She didn’t want to destroy the Dreadnaught.
Because the harbingers didn’t attack the dreadnaught, they forced their way into oryx his throneworld. The harbingers and dreadnaught are both in the ascendant plane and the ‘real space plane’. They interacted with the physical plane. One by destroying the hive fleet and the other by decimating the awoken fleet and Saturns rings. The cabal ship just rammed the physical portion, it rammed and broke into the thing we see but not unto the thing it really is. That is why we have to crash crotas cremation. We enter the physical structure not the ascendant plane.
Thanks for the explanations “Crota’s cremation”. That’s a new one
Couldn’t remember the name of the mission but it was the one where you had to sneak around his throneworld
Yeah I know the one. Got to use a cloaking device