give us the option for 8 buffs, and to move debuffs to the right side of the screen. its infuriating when i cant tell if i have combination blow up or not because i have *tangle cooldown, heavy handed cooldown, armor charge, radiant, etc* on my buff screen, and they for some reason decide the most important buff is not going to be there
Which begs the question WHY can't we just have more than 4 buffs visible at once on the left side of the screen?
Like is there some absurd engine issue with that?
I imagine it might be some concerns about information overload with too much text on screen at once but it CAN'T be worse than just not having that information visible at all and having buffs rotate in and out.
At least give us the option for more lines of buffs etc if we want it and the option to turn that off IF it's too much information for us.
My bet - they have UI guidelines to be as minimalist as possible and they consider more than 4 to be intrusive. It'd be stupid, but this whole debacle shows that Bungie is willing to put the aesthetics of a minimalist UI above usability for a *while* now.
Well, given how many buffs and debuffs exist in game, it could be pretty easy to completely fill your screen with them. That's not good game design. I'd like to be able to actually see what I'm doing.
Plenty of space at the top and bottom of the screen for more text, especially if you reduce the size of it, not only that, they can make it customizable. Your argument falls apart in the face of sense
Yeah I get their design perspective, but it would be nice to have a toggle option. So new players dont get overwhelmed, but veterans can see all their buffs
It’s not quite arbitrary and it’s just the section of the screen is cramped for space.
Directly below the current Buffs Display Channel is area in which the Kill Feed, Encounter Messages and Load Zone Update reside in. Directly above is where Encounter Objectives Progress is located.
On most resolution and screen aspects, you can probably fit a fifth element to the channel, but adding anymore risks overlapping text.
It could also be a toggle able option.
Hey you can have buffs and debuffs together, you can have them on left and right.
The fact that they showed it in the vids and then half the audience bitched about it without trying it and they undid the decisions is fucking infuriating.
Especially since they are already moving other buffs up top to use the screen better.
Cooldowns should be contained within the sublcass icons. Maybe a meter or circle that drains to signify it. Like if I run reaper then a bar in my class ability icon should drain or something. If it's an aspect cooldown maybe make a small icon for it within the super symbol. Point is, cooldowns need to be relocated.
maybe if it just showed the symbol in like. top right corner. I don't need the whole 'heavy handed cooldown' just gimme the symbols so I can check. the people who care will look, but most people genuinely couldn't care less for stuff like tangles etc.
I wish there was an option to show more buffs but with just an icon. The icons we have now are pretty distinct from one another. Some like the exotic icon get used for all exotic effects, but it's rare to have more than one active on you at once anyways.
I don't think icons are the way either. Warframe handles buffs like this and even long time players can't figure out what some of the buffs are. I don't think there is a great solution for destiny since especially with prismatic we can have so many buffs and perks active. I can imagine the average player having these descriptions covering the whole left of screen top to bottom if we could show them all.
I don't think icons only would be a good default. But I do think it would be a nice option to have in order to show more buffs at once without cluttering the UI. In general just having more control over the UI would be a much needed improvement.
Say for instance we could keep the text descriptions for debuffs so raid mechanics are easier to communicate at a glance, but have buffs just as icons. Nearly every buff atm has a very unique and distinct icon now with Final Shape.
That's just my 2 cents without knowing how difficult that would be with Bungie's UI framework. It could be much more difficult to implement, but I'd imagine it would be doable in general.
Either way, at this point we also need a Key/Legend that tells us what all the potential icons are and what some of the buffs do. There's a new one called "Press the Advantage" (or something to that effect) that keeps popping up in the Pale Heart that I still have no idea what does.
And anyone getting buffed by teammates with obscure effects from other-class exotics will have a hard time figuring out what the buffs are.
The teammate buffs are the exact reason warframes buff icons are so confusing. If you don't use that frame you probably have no idea what buff you have. I don't think there will be a good option for either game. Destiny reached the point of too many perks and buffs long ago and then basically doubled the problem with prismatic.
How about a scrolling bar at the bottom like how ESPN shows scores of games, or like the stock thing on news channels. One line for class buffs and another for weapon buffs and a third for teammate buffs....totally kidding BTW. Just emphasizing there is a lot of buffs.
Press the advantage is from one of your artifact mods. Something about breaking shields giving you weapon handling & stability and something with swords. I don't have it in front of me for the exact verbage.
debuffs on the right side of the screen would be amazing.
'just watch the right and if anything shows up, move down in front of atheon so you don't detain us all'
^((everyone gets detained anyway))
the fact that armor charges take up a slot in the buff ui instread of having their own display and on top of that the font and surge mods showing up in buffs is like 3 buffs from picking up an orb, which i can shit out nonstop, with 1 stat mod and a surge
It’s definitely a bug but it’s hilarious how the heart timer in queenswalk during last wish doesn’t take place at the top of the screen but rather on the left like the rest of your subclass buffs.
Arguably one of the most important timers in the game and it gets bumped out by stuff like amplified 😭
The buff the tormenter gives you in the 2nd encounter of Dual Destiny also appears in the left-hand side of buffs, after the game taught us that mission critical buffs like that should be top-center of our screen, which messed up more than a few rotations of that puzzle on my first run, I had kept assuming my teammate had the buff when I did because I assumed the buff would be where most other mission critical related buffs would beon my screen, and not cluttered alongside all the other prismatic buffs I had at that moment,
Yeah, Prismatic has made the buff list almost unusable and more or less negates the improvements they've made. Before TFS launched they mentioned that they weren't placing the debuffs on the right because it was "too visually distracting" and "difficult to keep track of both sides of the screen" (paraphrasing, but you get the gist)... And I feel like that doesn't make any sense. Like yeah it adds some UI clutter which is unavoidable at this point, but that's nowhere near as bad as searching through the left side of your screen and finding nothing at all?
It would be difficult to keep track of if the debuffs were on the right side of the hud.
Compared to now where it’s not even possible to keep track of buffs and debuffs. Because anything past the 4th is impossible to see because its not shown period.
Ideally I think Bungie would like to keep the HUD as unobtrusive as possible, but right now it just makes gameplay inconvenient more often than not. Debuffs on the right mean your eyes spend more time darting around the screen but I think the logical separation of left=good, right=bad, top=critical makes up for it. IMO that's a lot better for usability than the band-aid fix of 6-10 indicators only on the left. At some point you have to compromise immediate readability for information density, and we've been sitting at the wrong end of that compromise since the introduction of subclass 3.0.
No, definitely not. We've been asking for an improvement to the buff indicator system for a long time now, and any solution to that problem is inevitably going to put a bunch of new active elements on the HUD. "Debuffs on the right" is the compromise most people seem to be willing to accept because it puts the information we want on the screen, at a logical position that is currently empty. This WILL come at the cost of some increased mental load in combat (there are only so many things you can pay attention to at once) and potentially increased eye strain for some players. That's a genuine problem for a sizeable chunk of the population, not to mention the accessibility needs that will also have to be considered. Moving to a symbols-only system could mostly fix the UI real estate problem, but makes it much harder for Bungie to communicate things that aren't subclass verbs. There's also the minor problem of players having to retrain their brains to look at the right place, at the tight time.
This is all hardly ideal but it does sound better (to me at least) than having to parse a 6-10+ item list that's continuously being shuffled around when you're being shot at, and objectively better than having no clue if an effect is active or not. Fortunately they've already shown off real gameplay of this concept, so we know that it's something they could feasibly develop in a relatively reasonable timeframe (hopefully by the next episode). There are suggestions for making this an optional setting toggle or allowing full HUD customization, but Bungie has historically been very reluctant or slow to implement that sort of player-configurable behavior.
TL:DR: Your concern is valid and not uncommon, it's just that the existing system is so bad that most people will accept the solution that was previously revealed and binned.
Good insight. Current system sucks, but I genuinely don’t think I’d like the debuffs on the right more. Just make the list take up the whole left side of the screen and I’m happy.
Steal from some other popular MMOs and let us customize our buff/debuff bars. I'm fine keeping weapon buffs where they are, but my other buffs need like twice as much space.
WAY too complicated for Bungie.
I've wanted customizable sights for literally forever due to how horrendous a lot of the weapon sights are as someone who is colorblind. NONE of the colorblind options change them in the slightest. They FINALLY added "reticle color" but it literally just changes the hipfire reticle color which is next to useless.
I thought I was the only one who can't use some weapons because of their reticles.
Mainly snipers, because their reticles are tiny white circles that blend in with a lot of the white enemies and white environments.
It's the biggest reason I'm upset Bungie changed their philosophy on weapons having random sight/scope options. Sure usually one of them was "optimal" because of how they boosted range with zoom but it was a HUGE improvement for me being able to get different sights if some of them sucked for me visually. Really wish they'd go back to that in some way now that they decoupled zoom from weapon range.
Igneous Hammer to me is brutal because the sight just vanishes on most maps that have any sort of prominent red/green environments. REALLY sucks when I love hand cannons and it's been THE meta hand cannon for a long time.
There are a million obvious solutions to these problems that bungie could use and it's obviously either not something they're interested in focusing on or not something they're able to focus on. They seriously have what I would consider industry-worst UX for this kind of game.
I typically don't like to talk shit about game devs but Bungie's UX folks are one of the few cases where I feel like they're either legitimately, straight-up incompetent or have their hands tied to a tremendous degree by tech debt/bad management/poor staffing/etc.
The fact that it took so many YEARS to get this rework and the fact that it STILL is so poorly done really speaks to this. I seriously doubt it's going to see any real revision either since they seem to be wrapping up large-scale development of Destiny 2.
Like, if this was their 'big push' to fix this while they had the extra development time for TFS I'm very confident it will not be able to be revisited properly when they're pushing out nothing else but seasonal content with a much smaller dev team.
what tells you they are wrapping up "large scale development" (whatever that means)? they just announced a new DLC (or something similar) for 2025, with frontiers. TFS dlc is probably extremely succesful from a financial standpoint, they would be dumb to stop development, there is still a huge demand for additional content. companies dont just abandon succesful products. with the new of marathon going hero shooter (so there is turmoil) i think they will triple down on d2.
You want bungo to customize our the huds ? 😂
I've been asking for option to toggle on and off the auto melee/swords targeting just like warframe and no one's bother.
The only that worked is the separate charged and uncharged melee attack binding.
At minimum the buff and debuff on the left should be split into 4 and 4 separate stacks so a firesprite cooldown doesn't just replace an important buff that should be displayed.
They just need to make it bespoke where players can choose which buffs shows and which don’t, for example as a Hunter I have gunpowder gamble procc’d newrly all the time, additionally the grenade icon actually changes to represent it I don’t also need that in my buff list so let me turn that one off
They also should have built the armor charge gauge into the main UI since it’s a basic component rather than having it on the buff list
It'd be nice if you could weight different buffs
I always need to know if devour is up or not because if it's not this stupid thing I'm about to do is probably going to kill me, I don't really need to know if I'm radiant or amplified it's nice to know but not critical
Armor Charge, always need to know, don't really need that enhanced ability regen thing though because... I set my mods I know I got enhanced recovery going on
Dude, Bungie can't even make a functional UI to begin with and you're asking them to make a functional UI to adjust that UI - it's clearly not going to happen.
I think a more realistic ask would be along the lines of 'show 6 buffs instead of 4' but that's probably not happening either.
Adding context and separating the weapon buffs and encounter timers from left side feed was a good step, but obviously not enough.
They are currently stepping on UX principle of “always show system status” by limiting the slots on the left side feed. As a starting point, the number of things displayed needs to default to “all.” As a quick solution they could then just players pick the number of slots it truncates to in settings.
But it’s definitely a complex UI problem to solve in an more elegant manner. The game has so much going on at a given time that it needs even further effort to categorize and contextualize, the jumbled catch-all left side feed will be hard to make sense of even no matter the number of slots.
A few thoughts…
- All encounter timers should be at top even if you have to stack them — these are very important and different from everything else.
- I like that weapon buffs are more in context now, but I feel like it might be more useful to see all the damage output buffs and notifications together — rampage, radiant, vorpal, still hunt charging etc.
- Same thing for defense buffs — devour, restoration, overshield timers etc.
- Less critical things could move to the right or in a bottom section of the feed— stuff like cooldown timers, armor charges, and ability buff indicators.
There may be ways to provide better “homes” for this stuff in the UI than just a plain feed or shoving them to various edges of the screen, but the foundation is understanding users desired prioritization. Leaning more into how users make use of the system status notifications will lead them to better UI decisions.
Yeah, Warlord's Ruin is way more difficult now because while the imminent wish timer is at the top of the screen the wish empowered buff that tells you how long the damage phase is is stuck at the bottom and gets pushed off constantly.
Added how many buffs are displayed, but at the same time they added a new subclass that lets you have even *more* buffs at once so the problem is still there 🤣
Honestly, I could see them just having the elemental buffs as ICONS, which they all are have anyway, right below the rest of the buffs. Reduce the clutter, and prioritize other buffs.
I hate that Bungie decided for us that we wouldnt like Debuffs on the right. Many people liked it, if they could easily take it out then it should be an option. Its big headed of the top dogs to think for us like that
A huge thing to solve this would be super common buffs like volitle, radiant, wiven mail, etc is to have symbols to represent them. When you get them/refresh maybe their name flashes for a second but ideally you want just a row of easily recognized symbols. Like warframe or borderlands.
At this point it feels like bungie is a small indie studio with not enough staff to do things properly. So many baffling decisions...
Like do they really need our feedback to understand that the new pathfinder menu is a pain in the ass the get to?
In 3 months I guess there will be a ui update to have an actual button to get to it quickly.
Can they be this dense or out of touch? Did they really not see it coming that with prismatics the amount of buffs and cool-down will be a problem with the limited slots?
I just don't get it...
I could live with Armor Charge as long as every mod shared the same cool down versus it showing the armor charge, then the elemental weapon buff, plus my restoration or melee buff. They all run on the same timer, just file them together.
they said in their dev article about it that players didn't like having buffs and debuffs split left and right - they said it was distracting looking left then right all the time
idk I like it right now but there's no way they can show all the buffs
I dont understand why bungie doesnt give icons for buffs that come from our guns/classes
Do you really need to spell our bait and switch? The icon is already in the gun menu
I personally would like them to make icons for buffs, then have the icons across the bottom of the screen with a timer under them.
Most of the time it’s subclass stuff and a blue chest piece with a ticking timer under it is all I need to see for frost armor. Or a green one for woven mail. Or a purple one for void over shield. Etc.
I like the weapon buffs above the super bar. Procing BnS on Apex was hella difficult for quite some time.
Quick note: they fucked up the Last Wish Queenswalk - the timer is still on the left and you have to guess/mark it against another buff to do the countdown
Bruh heat rises keeps getting pushed off my screen by the million other status effects I have and then I need to just guess whether it's still working or not.
It does help a little, I know where to looks for bait and switch. However my weapon surges are still pushed off the buff list or I just can't find it at a glance during DPS phase.
100%, I'm running a punchy hunter build, and can never see what stack or how long my stack of combination blow is left. This isn't spoken about enough. All they've done is move important mechanical buffs to the centre, whilst good. It isn't enough to me.
Mechanic visual ques need to be more visible on the top, champion or weapon procs should stay just above the super. Cool downs need to have the lowest priority & once a buff / debuff is started it should be static in the visible list.
it's a small thing maybe but I dont need to know if hellion is up, I can fucking see it lol so maybe put it in a similar spot to weapon buffs (this spot would be specific to aspects like knockout, hellion, arc soul ect) since I know it's up but the timer is still useful
on the other hand yeah we still have the same problem of 3 out of the 7 buffs I currently have on not displaying cause raidient, woven mail, frost armor and orb/elemental pick up cooldowns obscure them, like wtf?
I had a funny moment with kings fall at golgi where I was teach8ng people about the "unstable light" debuff and just said that "if your screen urns green, give the boss a hug". It's like the game knew that I had never done KF post UI update and gave me the debuff every single time. Most of the time I was using whisper so looking for that buff was a "where tf is it"...and since it wasn't on the side I was panicking a few times 🤣....but then i remembered my own advice - "screen = green? Go hug the big mean bean"
Not only should bungie bump the left column up to 6, they should allow us to extend it further, add exotic armor to the space weapon perks show up. I have a bond with the hoil perk on it and I see it in the list when it procs MAYBE 1/50 times
there's definitely still a lot of work to be done with debuffs and buffs but the change has moved the needle slightly in a positive direction. It's at least given some sort of framework for them to change over the next year.
I'd like to see debuffs (or subclass buffs) moved over to the right side of the screen. Ideally I'd like there to be a way for the player to go in and individually assign a heriarchy to each buff, with mission specific buffs/debuffs being hidden until you've encountered it at least 1 time (to prevent spoilers etc.)
Subclass buffs could also just be shown as readable symbols that are either lit up or unlit depending on the status of the buff. Maybe a timer under each of them too if you really want to keep that part of it.
It's just as cluttered and now more spread out throughout the screen rather than in one place. Listing things horizontally in random places is whatever to me.
Definitely need more real estate for buffs, but debuffs should absolutely not be on the far end of the screen. That was always bad design -- you don't want the player's eyes dragging that far for crucial information. Should just be a separate module near the buffs.
The weapons buff/debuffs one fight as well
I have the raid smg with the raids version of frenzy and that, plus demo, plus the origin trait fight for dominance
What happened to Buffs on the left, debuffs on the right? With important buffs/debuffs on Top.
Why would they scrap that and go with this?! I don’t understand
I rarely used star eaters before they were on the class item, now I use them a lot and have to literally let buffs expire so I can know how many stacks of feast of light I'm at
Given the original designed UI having your attention points majorly on the left side of the screen, it makes sense they don't push our attention points to the right if not needed.
Please do this bungie. I know u don’t wanna overwhelm new players but i believe even a semi casual player could glance at 8 buffs and see oh i have frost armor, and a void overshield, and i have resist x3 with restoration x2, and stylish executioner is on cooldown. I also wonder why invis being procced has to pop up on the left when u hear the noise when entering invis and can visually clearly see your invisible.
This may be a dumb question, but is there anything stopping them from just having a gigantic list on the left side of the screen? Like I understand why splitting "4 on left, 4 on right" they didn't do because playertesters struggled to change their habits, but if we had 8 on the left side of the screen, there's no notifications or anything we'd be blocking, right? It would just look a weird. But I'd take "weird but functional" over "nice screenshots but interferes with gameplay" any day personally
They already have small but clearly designed icons (similar to the icons that represent seasons) that represent buffs and debuffs that people can easily memorize. Not sure what an icon means? Go to your subclass customization menu and they should show up next to the verbs that explain what they do. They’re literally there right now.
Use the colored versions for buffs applied to you, use greyed out versions for debuffs applied to you.
Weapon buffs: (up to 3 bcz of origin traits) above Super bar.
Subclass Buffs: up to 8 on the left with micro-symbols underneath for fragments, of which they will flash when their timers are running out.
Activity Debuffs/Buffs: up to 3 at the top of the screen with distinctly coloured symbols.
Debuffs: General debuffs on the right, up to 4, not including fragments
Make text size adjustable, radar size adjustable, gun and ability info size adjustable, mission popups (top right) size adjustable.
These are the HUD changes I think we need.
They originally had debuffs on the right side of the screen and people complained about having to look there. I was like, what? We have free screen space for these debuffs might as well use it and let people adjust
I pray every night for the ability to redyce or disable the fireteam feed.
Amidst all the info that comes up over there, I really don't need to know each and every time one of my teammates creates an orb.
If anything, it's even worse. Weapons only have space for 2 buffs, one of which is almost always taken up by anti champ mods. On top of that, prismatic has so many buffs that only last for a few seconds, and on top of that, the number of enemies that apply debuffs is the largest it's ever been.
It's really crazy that they put so much time and effort into a redesign that solves almost literally NONE of the issues with the old system.
All while at the same time creating Prismatic that fairly consistently has FAR MORE buff at the same time than we ever had previously. Not to mention adding more buffs than we previously had as well.
Oh and don't forget the new buffs and shit in the Pale Heart. Gotta see that 5 minute traveler buff and "near objective" taking up 2/4 buff spots now.
Meanwhile I have Radiant, Frost Armor, Combination Blow, Amplified etc all active at once constantly swapping in and out.
Most of the time I don't even know if I actually have Combination blow active OR what the timer is so I know when I need to make sure I get another melee kill to refresh it.
I almost never know if I ACTUALLY have a weapon surge buff active, despite armor charge being on screen still. It's REALLY confusing too because sometimes it seems to prioritize weapon surge being visible but sometimes it doesn't show at all despite having nothing else except armor charge being displayed.
Oh you want to use Hazardous Propulsion? That's another constant buff on your screen now too.
Did I properly activate Bait and Switch? Is it still up or has 10s passed? Fuck if I know.
What's REALLY crazy to me is what is possibly so hard about just increasing the # of buffs available on the left side of the screen? Why is it only possible for that to be 4? Is there some sort of absurd engine issue that limits it? Just give me 10 lines all stacked on top of each other if they literally can't be anywhere else on the screen. Why is that so hard to do? Sure it will be cluttered and might be slightly confusing but it CAN'T be worse than literally not having the buff indicated at all and having the buffs swap in and out constantly.
Personally, I found the change amazing. In my experience, the only buffs that are difficult to and need to be kept track of are weapon damage buffs. Moving those types of buffs to a completely separate section is invaluable for keeping track of them.
Having a sort of priority list for buffs would be nice tho
And another thing, it's still annoying when you're trying to see objectives and glimmer/XP/loot keeps popping up over the top, obscuring your progress until they go away.
I don’t get why they can’t just do it Warframe style. Just display the icon of every de/buff in a small grid format. Opening your ghost reveals the name & shifts them into a list. Over time you learn the icon, if you haven’t already.
We might need to move to a diablo-like square icons with no text mechanic and just clutter the left side of the UI with them. Since we don't have a cursor to mouse over them we'll never see text, but I can't think of any other solution.
While I do agree that the space still isn't big enough for all your buffs, I do think that on the whole the UI change is a plus. I really like that they use more of the screen space in general
Also the major buff/debuff thing on the top of the screen isn't even consistent, Warlords Ruin damage phase timer isn't being shown there and instead gets thrown in with the rest of your buffs where it just won't be seen
Feels like the easy solution is to just let us customise it ourselves. I'm so used to checking buffs and debuffs that I would happily have 8+ showing at once. That way, players who don't care can stick to 4 and prioritise the most important buffs and everyone else can choose how much screen clutter they want.
They should also just move armor charge while their at it, could very easily just put 3-6 squares to the right of your ammo and you would still know how much armor charge you have while getting it out of the way for your other buffs.
or better yet just let players customize their HUD, I really don't need to know my cooldowns TBH and its just more clutter for something that isn't really that important
We desperately need a fully customizable UI. What we have now is fine as the default so as to not overwhelm new players (more than they already are), but we 100% need to be able to expand how many are shown and where everything is shown
Can we also talk about how some of the text that goes below your health bar is really small and hard to read from far away? (I play on a 55 inch tv in the living room)
They should make it an option in settings where all buffs/debuffs are shown, so experienced players can toggle it on, but it won’t be “jarring” for new players (if that is the reason Bungie is not allowing it)
Debuffs should have 0 priority on the UI compared to buffs. If I'm frozen, suspended, suppressed and so on I don't have to look at my debuffs to know that and any other debuffs are not remotely important enough to sit next to my Restoration timer. I don't care how many seconds Firesprite or Heavy Handed cooldown I have.
I’d love an “Advanced” HUD option that shows all active buffs but only their symbols, not their names, like many other MMOs. Don’t clutter the screen with text, just a small little fragment/perk/ability/buff symbol with a timer.
Well, Bungie did say to let them know if we prefer debuffs being on the right. I say put debuffs on the right, lower the font down a bit and add 2 or 3 more, and add a minimalist setting so you have the option of only seeing the buff/debuff symbol and timer for those who want less clutter.
Honestly I really despise the positioning of the new buffs, I'm so accustomed to them being on the left that half the time I forget if I have weapon perks active or not. I wish Bungie would just keep everything on the left and have a top to bottom priority system, with weapon perks being where they are now, just slightly raised so they're not riding the damn super bar
On top of all of this, not all "encounter" buffs/debuffs are moved to the top and are kept in the left. This makes it confusing on where to look since it can change per activity. Arctition from Spire of the Watcher is still in the left. Even the pressure bar on ghosts of the deep is now removed entirely.
Gotta be real the weapon buffs getting moved above the super bar is the best thing they've ever done, tryna track bait during damage used to get really annoying for no reason. They just gotta scoot the champ mod buff out of there
Better yet give us full UI customization, allow us to adjust the max amount of visual buffs, the option to split debuffs to the right and maybe even let us set a buff priority that lets us prioritize showing certain buffs on screen over others.
If every buff and debuff had a unique icon, then they could have a setting thats just symbols that pop up. Leave unique, encounter defining buffs/debuffs with text so you know its different from your usual kit.
I wouldn’t say it solved nothing. It is a huge change that fixes a lot of problems. They just need to go through different content and make sure things are in the place they should be. I expect over the coming weeks we will see updates to how buffs and debuffs are displayed.
the UI/UX team needs some help, some new additions (including shader icons) are textbook examples of what to avoid. Just to name a couple, displaying too many informations at once in list items (shaders) and placing elements too close to other informations (weapon buffs). I thought it would have made sense to place weapon buffs on the right, most of the screen is covered by the weapon in the majority of case. It also doesn't really make sense to spread the text that much.
I think it was a step in the right direction, but I also think they’re retarded.
Why do I need people who don’t play the game to tell me how many buffs I should see so I can perform at my peak?
The answer is I don’t. I need the option to select the display of 1 buff or 20 buffs. I want to see all my buffs so that I can calculate how well I am doing in my max damage.
I don’t give 2 fucks if my HUD looks cluttered. I’d prefer clutter with information than no clutter and no information.
Knowledge is power.
There seems to be little priority applied to any of the timers. The timers could definitely be smaller, and provide us more space.
They could even make it symbol based, so we can fit a ton more. Then eventually they could think about implementing those symbols onto targets, allowing you to see what buffs and debuffs a target has. That second part is complicated I'm sure for destinys....struggling engine lol
It's even a problem on base classes. On Voidwalker you can get all 3 void buffs this season, off of a single finisher, which causes 3 buffs to proc (Devour, Overshield, Invisibility) and two cooldown timers (Orb generation and Void breach, both from the same fragment that I can't fully remember the name of when you defeat a weakened target.
Throw in armor charge, which is 1-2 more buffs, and off of one finisher you've already completely overloaded your buff/debuff tray before anything applied by allies or enemies.
It's actually insane how buffs still get lost on the screen. Especially since we have prismatic now, we have like 12 different buffs going on. We just need more slots for buffs instead of just 4 on the side. I would even settle for 4 on the left and 4 on the right or 8 or more in a very long line on the right.
I’m nearly positive they just don’t want more screen clutter, but I don’t understand why they don’t let us make that decision ourselves. It should be an option to let us show 8+ or something.
Theres still too many elemental buffs debuffs / effects (Devourer, Radiant, Amplified, Tangle Cooldown, Restoration, Darkness Aligned...etc etc) to be on the screen at one time.
The amount of times I still lose track of what's affecting me feels the same as I did before TFS
What kills me is... years and years and years later, and the general buff/debuff area on the left of the screen can still only show four things.
Come on.
I totally agree, at first I thought this was a welcome change, but in the end, it has solved absolutely nothing.
Move buffs on one side, debuffs on another, raid/dungeon buffs/debuffs on the top. And allow us to set how many as the limit.
They did address this in a twid; they held off on creating a spot for more ui info in the bottom right on the screen bc they got feedback from the leaked ui that too many feeds seemed overwhelming but said they were going to continue monitoring feedback. As with all things in this game changes tend to happen incrementally as opposed to all at once and now that people are used to the new ui I am very much expecting them to add that spot for debuffs in the bottom right corner eventually bc it’s still very much needed
Bungie seems to be really *really* into clean UI, which is something I honestly respect, even if I think they play a bit heavily into it. I imagine they found that the right hand buff display putting text literally everywhere on the screen made the screen feel really cagey and boxed in. Great info for us who care, but for the vast majority of players who don't need all that info it makes the general gameplay experience feel worse because it makes their sightlines feel more limited. Likewise, too many lines of text in one place makes things much less readable for those who aren't experienced, and often results in them simply ignoring what might be critical information.
Personally, I think they should bump the four slot indicator on the left up to six or maybe eight, and play more with layered elements. Make Still Hunt's indicator an overlay that covers the upper or lower half of the super bar, and something similar with Gunpowder gamble and the grenade slot. That kind of thing. Stuff like that lets you get more info across without taking more screen space. The inevitable downside is that clearly labelling those becomes much more difficult, which again can lead less savvy players to ignore it, but at least in this case it doesn't cover up their view.
Devour always gets pushed off and im having to use the visuals of buried bloodline (I'm lucky here) to tell if it on so I can be more aggressive if the timer isn't about to run out.
Important buff/debuff is under health bar and that is enought for me. Weapons buffs near super is just a bonus. Left side is something I dont talk about :D
There should be an option in settings such as "buff display limit" that lets you choose how many 'cause it's currently not enough. Imagine refactoring the UI, being proud about it, releasing prismatic at the same time and then you still can't see half your buffs like combi blow or knockout.
Naeems wish fulfillment in WLR also goes to the left and gets pushed out by practically every over buff so I never know how long the damage phase has left, yippee
I cannot comprehend how Armor Charge didn't get a special place, it's a very unique and basic thing, and you have it 24/7. It's like having your magazine in buffs.
And speaking on armor charges - the game telling you "faster ability cooldown x2" is absolutely useless since YOU PUT ON THE MODS YOURSELF, and it's not even telling you what abilites are cd'ing faster. The weapon surges KINDA makes sense considering some ways of getting them other than leg mods but sitll I'd think we don't need to see them.
Sorry guys we can only show you 4 buffs at a time because well, we vaulted part of the UI be sure to check back in the eververse store later to re purchase more unlocks for your UI - fraudgie dev probably
This is a hard problem to solve. I know "just put debuffs on the right side" sounds easy but Bungie tried that and reverted it for a good reason. I say this as a ffxiv player with my buffs and debuffs split to each side of my screen and enlarged to 120%.
I'm still dying to fracturing in cooperative focus because I forget to look at the top of my screen. I appreciate that deadly debuffs are up there now, but I'm not used to it yet and it's not where my eyes go (I know if I'm low health without needing to look up).
Putting debuffs on the right side frees up slots on the left but now you're looking at another spot on your screen where *nothing has ever been in this game before*. Giving armor charge related buffs and debuffs their own spot would free up even more slots but now you've got *another* new spot to look. I can barely even think to look above my super bar for weapon buffs.
This might be a thing that Bungie start to iterate on slowly, but they probably released it this way so, at the very least, people could have time to slowly adjust to looking other places on their screen.
I don't understand why they don't just make the list bigger. Is it a programming problem? I genuinely don't see how that can be the case. Are they worried that we're just too stupid and will be overwhelmed? If so, make it an option to determine how many buffs you can see.
I was so confused when I started playing after tfs came out, I'm the clutter is slightly better but not much. This display update was one of the things I was most looking forward to.
I honestly like that they're in the same location, it keeps my eyes from having to dart to one less place on the screen to look for info. Clarity should be addressed though. If debuffs were red, or smaller, or had a divider between them etc I think it would be more readable without having to check the right of my screen.
I will admit though, this issue is exacerbated for me as I use a UHD monitor for gaming. So moving it to the right would be annoying.
Even if cooldowns just had an icon that dynamically populated based on what you have slotted, could then grey out when on cooldown I think that would be so much easier to read.
give us the option for 8 buffs, and to move debuffs to the right side of the screen. its infuriating when i cant tell if i have combination blow up or not because i have *tangle cooldown, heavy handed cooldown, armor charge, radiant, etc* on my buff screen, and they for some reason decide the most important buff is not going to be there
Cool downs need their own spot for sure. Can't believe they thought it was a good idea to keep them with buffs. Just put them right above the hp bar.
Apparently it was really jarring to play since we always look to the left for buffs. But it wouldn't take long to get used to.
Rather be jarred for 2 minutes than never see any of my buffs again lol
Which begs the question WHY can't we just have more than 4 buffs visible at once on the left side of the screen? Like is there some absurd engine issue with that? I imagine it might be some concerns about information overload with too much text on screen at once but it CAN'T be worse than just not having that information visible at all and having buffs rotate in and out. At least give us the option for more lines of buffs etc if we want it and the option to turn that off IF it's too much information for us.
My bet - they have UI guidelines to be as minimalist as possible and they consider more than 4 to be intrusive. It'd be stupid, but this whole debacle shows that Bungie is willing to put the aesthetics of a minimalist UI above usability for a *while* now.
Well, given how many buffs and debuffs exist in game, it could be pretty easy to completely fill your screen with them. That's not good game design. I'd like to be able to actually see what I'm doing.
That's true too, but I think there's a better balance than four or filling the entire screen.
Plenty of space at the top and bottom of the screen for more text, especially if you reduce the size of it, not only that, they can make it customizable. Your argument falls apart in the face of sense
Armor charge stacks can go vertically, directly to the right of the ammo display. There is no need for those to take up the buff debuff section.
Yeah I get their design perspective, but it would be nice to have a toggle option. So new players dont get overwhelmed, but veterans can see all their buffs
It’s not quite arbitrary and it’s just the section of the screen is cramped for space. Directly below the current Buffs Display Channel is area in which the Kill Feed, Encounter Messages and Load Zone Update reside in. Directly above is where Encounter Objectives Progress is located. On most resolution and screen aspects, you can probably fit a fifth element to the channel, but adding anymore risks overlapping text.
It could also be a toggle able option. Hey you can have buffs and debuffs together, you can have them on left and right. The fact that they showed it in the vids and then half the audience bitched about it without trying it and they undid the decisions is fucking infuriating. Especially since they are already moving other buffs up top to use the screen better.
Cooldowns should be contained within the sublcass icons. Maybe a meter or circle that drains to signify it. Like if I run reaper then a bar in my class ability icon should drain or something. If it's an aspect cooldown maybe make a small icon for it within the super symbol. Point is, cooldowns need to be relocated.
Why even show cool downs at all? It's like "here a list of stuff you can't do right now"
Cool downs should be where the current buffs are maybe a little lower and buffs under the mini map
I feel like you could integrate some into the ability icon like wow does.
maybe if it just showed the symbol in like. top right corner. I don't need the whole 'heavy handed cooldown' just gimme the symbols so I can check. the people who care will look, but most people genuinely couldn't care less for stuff like tangles etc.
Same thing for roaring flames x3.
The entire UI should be completely adjustable like an MMO has. If i couldnt move stuff in WoW it would be way harder to play well lol
I wish there was an option to show more buffs but with just an icon. The icons we have now are pretty distinct from one another. Some like the exotic icon get used for all exotic effects, but it's rare to have more than one active on you at once anyways.
I don't think icons are the way either. Warframe handles buffs like this and even long time players can't figure out what some of the buffs are. I don't think there is a great solution for destiny since especially with prismatic we can have so many buffs and perks active. I can imagine the average player having these descriptions covering the whole left of screen top to bottom if we could show them all.
I don't think icons only would be a good default. But I do think it would be a nice option to have in order to show more buffs at once without cluttering the UI. In general just having more control over the UI would be a much needed improvement. Say for instance we could keep the text descriptions for debuffs so raid mechanics are easier to communicate at a glance, but have buffs just as icons. Nearly every buff atm has a very unique and distinct icon now with Final Shape. That's just my 2 cents without knowing how difficult that would be with Bungie's UI framework. It could be much more difficult to implement, but I'd imagine it would be doable in general.
Either way, at this point we also need a Key/Legend that tells us what all the potential icons are and what some of the buffs do. There's a new one called "Press the Advantage" (or something to that effect) that keeps popping up in the Pale Heart that I still have no idea what does. And anyone getting buffed by teammates with obscure effects from other-class exotics will have a hard time figuring out what the buffs are.
The teammate buffs are the exact reason warframes buff icons are so confusing. If you don't use that frame you probably have no idea what buff you have. I don't think there will be a good option for either game. Destiny reached the point of too many perks and buffs long ago and then basically doubled the problem with prismatic. How about a scrolling bar at the bottom like how ESPN shows scores of games, or like the stock thing on news channels. One line for class buffs and another for weapon buffs and a third for teammate buffs....totally kidding BTW. Just emphasizing there is a lot of buffs.
Press the advantage is from one of your artifact mods. Something about breaking shields giving you weapon handling & stability and something with swords. I don't have it in front of me for the exact verbage.
debuffs on the right side of the screen would be amazing. 'just watch the right and if anything shows up, move down in front of atheon so you don't detain us all' ^((everyone gets detained anyway))
No - no "option". Just solve is properly.
Armor charges should be a separate callout
*customisable hud enters the chat*
the fact that armor charges take up a slot in the buff ui instread of having their own display and on top of that the font and surge mods showing up in buffs is like 3 buffs from picking up an orb, which i can shit out nonstop, with 1 stat mod and a surge
Armor Charge feels like it should sit right above the super bar
Or to the right of it, or under/over the health bar.
It’s definitely a bug but it’s hilarious how the heart timer in queenswalk during last wish doesn’t take place at the top of the screen but rather on the left like the rest of your subclass buffs. Arguably one of the most important timers in the game and it gets bumped out by stuff like amplified 😭
Same with Naeems Wish Empowerment in warlords ruin... the countdown until damage is up top, but the countdown for the damage phase is on the left
The buff the tormenter gives you in the 2nd encounter of Dual Destiny also appears in the left-hand side of buffs, after the game taught us that mission critical buffs like that should be top-center of our screen, which messed up more than a few rotations of that puzzle on my first run, I had kept assuming my teammate had the buff when I did because I assumed the buff would be where most other mission critical related buffs would beon my screen, and not cluttered alongside all the other prismatic buffs I had at that moment,
Even the Resonance buffs in Salvation's Edge don't take the top of the screen, despite being integral to the mechanics.
“10……9……8……7……uh….um…..guys…..my buff is gone.”
To be fair, why u need a queenswalk timer with perpetual amplification and eager edge launching ur teammate😂
Yeah, Prismatic has made the buff list almost unusable and more or less negates the improvements they've made. Before TFS launched they mentioned that they weren't placing the debuffs on the right because it was "too visually distracting" and "difficult to keep track of both sides of the screen" (paraphrasing, but you get the gist)... And I feel like that doesn't make any sense. Like yeah it adds some UI clutter which is unavoidable at this point, but that's nowhere near as bad as searching through the left side of your screen and finding nothing at all?
"It makes keeping track of things too hard, so we decided instead of making it impossible"
It would be difficult to keep track of if the debuffs were on the right side of the hud. Compared to now where it’s not even possible to keep track of buffs and debuffs. Because anything past the 4th is impossible to see because its not shown period.
Ideally I think Bungie would like to keep the HUD as unobtrusive as possible, but right now it just makes gameplay inconvenient more often than not. Debuffs on the right mean your eyes spend more time darting around the screen but I think the logical separation of left=good, right=bad, top=critical makes up for it. IMO that's a lot better for usability than the band-aid fix of 6-10 indicators only on the left. At some point you have to compromise immediate readability for information density, and we've been sitting at the wrong end of that compromise since the introduction of subclass 3.0.
Am I the only one here who thinks having some things over in the right side genuinely would be difficult to keep track of?
No, definitely not. We've been asking for an improvement to the buff indicator system for a long time now, and any solution to that problem is inevitably going to put a bunch of new active elements on the HUD. "Debuffs on the right" is the compromise most people seem to be willing to accept because it puts the information we want on the screen, at a logical position that is currently empty. This WILL come at the cost of some increased mental load in combat (there are only so many things you can pay attention to at once) and potentially increased eye strain for some players. That's a genuine problem for a sizeable chunk of the population, not to mention the accessibility needs that will also have to be considered. Moving to a symbols-only system could mostly fix the UI real estate problem, but makes it much harder for Bungie to communicate things that aren't subclass verbs. There's also the minor problem of players having to retrain their brains to look at the right place, at the tight time. This is all hardly ideal but it does sound better (to me at least) than having to parse a 6-10+ item list that's continuously being shuffled around when you're being shot at, and objectively better than having no clue if an effect is active or not. Fortunately they've already shown off real gameplay of this concept, so we know that it's something they could feasibly develop in a relatively reasonable timeframe (hopefully by the next episode). There are suggestions for making this an optional setting toggle or allowing full HUD customization, but Bungie has historically been very reluctant or slow to implement that sort of player-configurable behavior. TL:DR: Your concern is valid and not uncommon, it's just that the existing system is so bad that most people will accept the solution that was previously revealed and binned.
Good insight. Current system sucks, but I genuinely don’t think I’d like the debuffs on the right more. Just make the list take up the whole left side of the screen and I’m happy.
Steal from some other popular MMOs and let us customize our buff/debuff bars. I'm fine keeping weapon buffs where they are, but my other buffs need like twice as much space.
I'd love that, sometimes I only want to see the thing keeping me alive Restoration, Devour get that other shit outta there nothing but a distraction
WAY too complicated for Bungie. I've wanted customizable sights for literally forever due to how horrendous a lot of the weapon sights are as someone who is colorblind. NONE of the colorblind options change them in the slightest. They FINALLY added "reticle color" but it literally just changes the hipfire reticle color which is next to useless.
I thought I was the only one who can't use some weapons because of their reticles. Mainly snipers, because their reticles are tiny white circles that blend in with a lot of the white enemies and white environments.
It's the biggest reason I'm upset Bungie changed their philosophy on weapons having random sight/scope options. Sure usually one of them was "optimal" because of how they boosted range with zoom but it was a HUGE improvement for me being able to get different sights if some of them sucked for me visually. Really wish they'd go back to that in some way now that they decoupled zoom from weapon range. Igneous Hammer to me is brutal because the sight just vanishes on most maps that have any sort of prominent red/green environments. REALLY sucks when I love hand cannons and it's been THE meta hand cannon for a long time.
ElvUI for Destiny when??
There are a million obvious solutions to these problems that bungie could use and it's obviously either not something they're interested in focusing on or not something they're able to focus on. They seriously have what I would consider industry-worst UX for this kind of game. I typically don't like to talk shit about game devs but Bungie's UX folks are one of the few cases where I feel like they're either legitimately, straight-up incompetent or have their hands tied to a tremendous degree by tech debt/bad management/poor staffing/etc. The fact that it took so many YEARS to get this rework and the fact that it STILL is so poorly done really speaks to this. I seriously doubt it's going to see any real revision either since they seem to be wrapping up large-scale development of Destiny 2. Like, if this was their 'big push' to fix this while they had the extra development time for TFS I'm very confident it will not be able to be revisited properly when they're pushing out nothing else but seasonal content with a much smaller dev team.
what tells you they are wrapping up "large scale development" (whatever that means)? they just announced a new DLC (or something similar) for 2025, with frontiers. TFS dlc is probably extremely succesful from a financial standpoint, they would be dumb to stop development, there is still a huge demand for additional content. companies dont just abandon succesful products. with the new of marathon going hero shooter (so there is turmoil) i think they will triple down on d2.
You want bungo to customize our the huds ? 😂 I've been asking for option to toggle on and off the auto melee/swords targeting just like warframe and no one's bother. The only that worked is the separate charged and uncharged melee attack binding.
The ability to toggle the auto tracking on and off would be great.
At minimum the buff and debuff on the left should be split into 4 and 4 separate stacks so a firesprite cooldown doesn't just replace an important buff that should be displayed.
They just need to make it bespoke where players can choose which buffs shows and which don’t, for example as a Hunter I have gunpowder gamble procc’d newrly all the time, additionally the grenade icon actually changes to represent it I don’t also need that in my buff list so let me turn that one off They also should have built the armor charge gauge into the main UI since it’s a basic component rather than having it on the buff list
It'd be nice if you could weight different buffs I always need to know if devour is up or not because if it's not this stupid thing I'm about to do is probably going to kill me, I don't really need to know if I'm radiant or amplified it's nice to know but not critical Armor Charge, always need to know, don't really need that enhanced ability regen thing though because... I set my mods I know I got enhanced recovery going on
Dude, Bungie can't even make a functional UI to begin with and you're asking them to make a functional UI to adjust that UI - it's clearly not going to happen. I think a more realistic ask would be along the lines of 'show 6 buffs instead of 4' but that's probably not happening either.
I just wish it doesnt even list 'tangle down time' and that sort of thing. For me that info is kinda useless and arent every needed.
Better yet, have a menu in the Settings to let us turn on or off and re-order non-critical information as we so choose.
Exactly. I also don’t need things that are pretty much up all the time, like devour, taking priority over more important buffs/debuffs.
Adding context and separating the weapon buffs and encounter timers from left side feed was a good step, but obviously not enough. They are currently stepping on UX principle of “always show system status” by limiting the slots on the left side feed. As a starting point, the number of things displayed needs to default to “all.” As a quick solution they could then just players pick the number of slots it truncates to in settings. But it’s definitely a complex UI problem to solve in an more elegant manner. The game has so much going on at a given time that it needs even further effort to categorize and contextualize, the jumbled catch-all left side feed will be hard to make sense of even no matter the number of slots. A few thoughts… - All encounter timers should be at top even if you have to stack them — these are very important and different from everything else. - I like that weapon buffs are more in context now, but I feel like it might be more useful to see all the damage output buffs and notifications together — rampage, radiant, vorpal, still hunt charging etc. - Same thing for defense buffs — devour, restoration, overshield timers etc. - Less critical things could move to the right or in a bottom section of the feed— stuff like cooldown timers, armor charges, and ability buff indicators. There may be ways to provide better “homes” for this stuff in the UI than just a plain feed or shoving them to various edges of the screen, but the foundation is understanding users desired prioritization. Leaning more into how users make use of the system status notifications will lead them to better UI decisions.
Yeah, Warlord's Ruin is way more difficult now because while the imminent wish timer is at the top of the screen the wish empowered buff that tells you how long the damage phase is is stuck at the bottom and gets pushed off constantly.
Added how many buffs are displayed, but at the same time they added a new subclass that lets you have even *more* buffs at once so the problem is still there 🤣
Fr like just let me have 15 different buffs on screen, I can handle it
Honestly, I could see them just having the elemental buffs as ICONS, which they all are have anyway, right below the rest of the buffs. Reduce the clutter, and prioritize other buffs.
I hate that Bungie decided for us that we wouldnt like Debuffs on the right. Many people liked it, if they could easily take it out then it should be an option. Its big headed of the top dogs to think for us like that
I don't fucking understand why cooldowns were implemented. They just clog up important buffs on the left side.
i don't know why they didnt just make using the right side a toggleable setting, why did it have to be "either or"
This can all be solved by making the actual effect a in-game visual rather than a HUD element.
Probably the biggest L with this entire DLC
I wouldn't call it an L, the change does help. Just not enough
idk about calling it an L It's an improvement still and something they can tweak to improve it even further
A huge thing to solve this would be super common buffs like volitle, radiant, wiven mail, etc is to have symbols to represent them. When you get them/refresh maybe their name flashes for a second but ideally you want just a row of easily recognized symbols. Like warframe or borderlands.
Bring back the separate location for debuffs! Put them on the right, or low center, or separate above the buffs, something, ANYTHING
At this point it feels like bungie is a small indie studio with not enough staff to do things properly. So many baffling decisions... Like do they really need our feedback to understand that the new pathfinder menu is a pain in the ass the get to? In 3 months I guess there will be a ui update to have an actual button to get to it quickly. Can they be this dense or out of touch? Did they really not see it coming that with prismatics the amount of buffs and cool-down will be a problem with the limited slots? I just don't get it...
Armor charge and CDs on pickups need to fuck off
I could live with Armor Charge as long as every mod shared the same cool down versus it showing the armor charge, then the elemental weapon buff, plus my restoration or melee buff. They all run on the same timer, just file them together.
Bungie has the worst UX design team in the industry and it’s not even close.
they said in their dev article about it that players didn't like having buffs and debuffs split left and right - they said it was distracting looking left then right all the time idk I like it right now but there's no way they can show all the buffs
I dont understand why bungie doesnt give icons for buffs that come from our guns/classes Do you really need to spell our bait and switch? The icon is already in the gun menu
I personally would like them to make icons for buffs, then have the icons across the bottom of the screen with a timer under them. Most of the time it’s subclass stuff and a blue chest piece with a ticking timer under it is all I need to see for frost armor. Or a green one for woven mail. Or a purple one for void over shield. Etc. I like the weapon buffs above the super bar. Procing BnS on Apex was hella difficult for quite some time.
Quick note: they fucked up the Last Wish Queenswalk - the timer is still on the left and you have to guess/mark it against another buff to do the countdown
Bruh heat rises keeps getting pushed off my screen by the million other status effects I have and then I need to just guess whether it's still working or not.
Bro I like the update about the buff hud but it's half complete buffs still getting pushed out of the hud
Yeah I actually find it even more confusing now.
It does help a little, I know where to looks for bait and switch. However my weapon surges are still pushed off the buff list or I just can't find it at a glance during DPS phase.
100%, I'm running a punchy hunter build, and can never see what stack or how long my stack of combination blow is left. This isn't spoken about enough. All they've done is move important mechanical buffs to the centre, whilst good. It isn't enough to me.
Mechanic visual ques need to be more visible on the top, champion or weapon procs should stay just above the super. Cool downs need to have the lowest priority & once a buff / debuff is started it should be static in the visible list.
it's a small thing maybe but I dont need to know if hellion is up, I can fucking see it lol so maybe put it in a similar spot to weapon buffs (this spot would be specific to aspects like knockout, hellion, arc soul ect) since I know it's up but the timer is still useful on the other hand yeah we still have the same problem of 3 out of the 7 buffs I currently have on not displaying cause raidient, woven mail, frost armor and orb/elemental pick up cooldowns obscure them, like wtf?
As a warlock on prismatic i cannot see DEVOUR. HELLO?!?!
It’s better but I don’t understand why they won’t just fix the core issue
I had a funny moment with kings fall at golgi where I was teach8ng people about the "unstable light" debuff and just said that "if your screen urns green, give the boss a hug". It's like the game knew that I had never done KF post UI update and gave me the debuff every single time. Most of the time I was using whisper so looking for that buff was a "where tf is it"...and since it wasn't on the side I was panicking a few times 🤣....but then i remembered my own advice - "screen = green? Go hug the big mean bean"
Not only should bungie bump the left column up to 6, they should allow us to extend it further, add exotic armor to the space weapon perks show up. I have a bond with the hoil perk on it and I see it in the list when it procs MAYBE 1/50 times
Yeah if they had 8 viewable on the left - there's more than enough space - and debuffs on the right, it would work just fine
there's definitely still a lot of work to be done with debuffs and buffs but the change has moved the needle slightly in a positive direction. It's at least given some sort of framework for them to change over the next year. I'd like to see debuffs (or subclass buffs) moved over to the right side of the screen. Ideally I'd like there to be a way for the player to go in and individually assign a heriarchy to each buff, with mission specific buffs/debuffs being hidden until you've encountered it at least 1 time (to prevent spoilers etc.) Subclass buffs could also just be shown as readable symbols that are either lit up or unlit depending on the status of the buff. Maybe a timer under each of them too if you really want to keep that part of it.
It's just as cluttered and now more spread out throughout the screen rather than in one place. Listing things horizontally in random places is whatever to me.
Definitely need more real estate for buffs, but debuffs should absolutely not be on the far end of the screen. That was always bad design -- you don't want the player's eyes dragging that far for crucial information. Should just be a separate module near the buffs.
Make it like twitch where you can move that around the screen into selected segments
The weapons buff/debuffs one fight as well I have the raid smg with the raids version of frenzy and that, plus demo, plus the origin trait fight for dominance
I feel like I can't tell my weapon buffs now.
What happened to Buffs on the left, debuffs on the right? With important buffs/debuffs on Top. Why would they scrap that and go with this?! I don’t understand
I rarely used star eaters before they were on the class item, now I use them a lot and have to literally let buffs expire so I can know how many stacks of feast of light I'm at
Given the original designed UI having your attention points majorly on the left side of the screen, it makes sense they don't push our attention points to the right if not needed.
Please do this bungie. I know u don’t wanna overwhelm new players but i believe even a semi casual player could glance at 8 buffs and see oh i have frost armor, and a void overshield, and i have resist x3 with restoration x2, and stylish executioner is on cooldown. I also wonder why invis being procced has to pop up on the left when u hear the noise when entering invis and can visually clearly see your invisible.
This may be a dumb question, but is there anything stopping them from just having a gigantic list on the left side of the screen? Like I understand why splitting "4 on left, 4 on right" they didn't do because playertesters struggled to change their habits, but if we had 8 on the left side of the screen, there's no notifications or anything we'd be blocking, right? It would just look a weird. But I'd take "weird but functional" over "nice screenshots but interferes with gameplay" any day personally
Imo show the buffs with their icons somewhere one near the bottom or the side
I feel like even if they just made a dedicated spot for armor charge, that would alleviate so much of the frustration.
They already have small but clearly designed icons (similar to the icons that represent seasons) that represent buffs and debuffs that people can easily memorize. Not sure what an icon means? Go to your subclass customization menu and they should show up next to the verbs that explain what they do. They’re literally there right now. Use the colored versions for buffs applied to you, use greyed out versions for debuffs applied to you.
Also the fact that some raid buffs also polite that section is sickening. I know I have hexahedronal resonance but can we but it up top 😭
Weapon buffs: (up to 3 bcz of origin traits) above Super bar. Subclass Buffs: up to 8 on the left with micro-symbols underneath for fragments, of which they will flash when their timers are running out. Activity Debuffs/Buffs: up to 3 at the top of the screen with distinctly coloured symbols. Debuffs: General debuffs on the right, up to 4, not including fragments Make text size adjustable, radar size adjustable, gun and ability info size adjustable, mission popups (top right) size adjustable. These are the HUD changes I think we need.
Just give us symbols and a codex. Show the symbol with a counter. Problem solved.
I think the MMO route of just showing an icon with a DOT-style counter is the way to go
They originally had debuffs on the right side of the screen and people complained about having to look there. I was like, what? We have free screen space for these debuffs might as well use it and let people adjust
I pray every night for the ability to redyce or disable the fireteam feed. Amidst all the info that comes up over there, I really don't need to know each and every time one of my teammates creates an orb.
Do what Call of Duty is doing and provide customizable UIs. They can build it up slowly if they want and just allow buff customization.
Always felt buffs on right side be better than left
If anything, it's even worse. Weapons only have space for 2 buffs, one of which is almost always taken up by anti champ mods. On top of that, prismatic has so many buffs that only last for a few seconds, and on top of that, the number of enemies that apply debuffs is the largest it's ever been.
It's really crazy that they put so much time and effort into a redesign that solves almost literally NONE of the issues with the old system. All while at the same time creating Prismatic that fairly consistently has FAR MORE buff at the same time than we ever had previously. Not to mention adding more buffs than we previously had as well. Oh and don't forget the new buffs and shit in the Pale Heart. Gotta see that 5 minute traveler buff and "near objective" taking up 2/4 buff spots now. Meanwhile I have Radiant, Frost Armor, Combination Blow, Amplified etc all active at once constantly swapping in and out. Most of the time I don't even know if I actually have Combination blow active OR what the timer is so I know when I need to make sure I get another melee kill to refresh it. I almost never know if I ACTUALLY have a weapon surge buff active, despite armor charge being on screen still. It's REALLY confusing too because sometimes it seems to prioritize weapon surge being visible but sometimes it doesn't show at all despite having nothing else except armor charge being displayed. Oh you want to use Hazardous Propulsion? That's another constant buff on your screen now too. Did I properly activate Bait and Switch? Is it still up or has 10s passed? Fuck if I know. What's REALLY crazy to me is what is possibly so hard about just increasing the # of buffs available on the left side of the screen? Why is it only possible for that to be 4? Is there some sort of absurd engine issue that limits it? Just give me 10 lines all stacked on top of each other if they literally can't be anywhere else on the screen. Why is that so hard to do? Sure it will be cluttered and might be slightly confusing but it CAN'T be worse than literally not having the buff indicated at all and having the buffs swap in and out constantly.
Personally, I found the change amazing. In my experience, the only buffs that are difficult to and need to be kept track of are weapon damage buffs. Moving those types of buffs to a completely separate section is invaluable for keeping track of them. Having a sort of priority list for buffs would be nice tho
And another thing, it's still annoying when you're trying to see objectives and glimmer/XP/loot keeps popping up over the top, obscuring your progress until they go away.
I don’t get why they can’t just do it Warframe style. Just display the icon of every de/buff in a small grid format. Opening your ghost reveals the name & shifts them into a list. Over time you learn the icon, if you haven’t already.
We might need to move to a diablo-like square icons with no text mechanic and just clutter the left side of the UI with them. Since we don't have a cursor to mouse over them we'll never see text, but I can't think of any other solution.
I mean its an improvement but prismatic has just made it even more wild.
While I do agree that the space still isn't big enough for all your buffs, I do think that on the whole the UI change is a plus. I really like that they use more of the screen space in general
I think it’s worse I have to look at 3 different spots on the HUD to know what’s going on and god forbid if they interact with each other.
Also the major buff/debuff thing on the top of the screen isn't even consistent, Warlords Ruin damage phase timer isn't being shown there and instead gets thrown in with the rest of your buffs where it just won't be seen
Feels like the easy solution is to just let us customise it ourselves. I'm so used to checking buffs and debuffs that I would happily have 8+ showing at once. That way, players who don't care can stick to 4 and prioritise the most important buffs and everyone else can choose how much screen clutter they want.
fight specific buffs/debuffs at the top of the screen is a really, really great change
They should also just move armor charge while their at it, could very easily just put 3-6 squares to the right of your ammo and you would still know how much armor charge you have while getting it out of the way for your other buffs. or better yet just let players customize their HUD, I really don't need to know my cooldowns TBH and its just more clutter for something that isn't really that important
We desperately need a fully customizable UI. What we have now is fine as the default so as to not overwhelm new players (more than they already are), but we 100% need to be able to expand how many are shown and where everything is shown
Can we also talk about how some of the text that goes below your health bar is really small and hard to read from far away? (I play on a 55 inch tv in the living room)
Couldn't agree more.
Yeah the left bar is still flooded with random buffs and important stuff gets lost lol
They should make it an option in settings where all buffs/debuffs are shown, so experienced players can toggle it on, but it won’t be “jarring” for new players (if that is the reason Bungie is not allowing it)
Debuffs should have 0 priority on the UI compared to buffs. If I'm frozen, suspended, suppressed and so on I don't have to look at my debuffs to know that and any other debuffs are not remotely important enough to sit next to my Restoration timer. I don't care how many seconds Firesprite or Heavy Handed cooldown I have.
Yeah and my colorblind ass cant see when the prismatic bar is charged
I’d love an “Advanced” HUD option that shows all active buffs but only their symbols, not their names, like many other MMOs. Don’t clutter the screen with text, just a small little fragment/perk/ability/buff symbol with a timer.
Agreed.
🚨REJUVENATION X2🚨let’s go that is epic
Armor charge could be move to bottom center over the exp bar
Anything would be better than trying to find out where I procc'd Killing Tally now. It's so hard to identify quickly amongst the cluttered UI.
Well, Bungie did say to let them know if we prefer debuffs being on the right. I say put debuffs on the right, lower the font down a bit and add 2 or 3 more, and add a minimalist setting so you have the option of only seeing the buff/debuff symbol and timer for those who want less clutter.
I don’t like the new buff hud tbh
Honestly I really despise the positioning of the new buffs, I'm so accustomed to them being on the left that half the time I forget if I have weapon perks active or not. I wish Bungie would just keep everything on the left and have a top to bottom priority system, with weapon perks being where they are now, just slightly raised so they're not riding the damn super bar
On top of all of this, not all "encounter" buffs/debuffs are moved to the top and are kept in the left. This makes it confusing on where to look since it can change per activity. Arctition from Spire of the Watcher is still in the left. Even the pressure bar on ghosts of the deep is now removed entirely.
Dial destiny’s encounter takes up one of the 4 slots. I never know when I’m radiant… awful design
Gotta be real the weapon buffs getting moved above the super bar is the best thing they've ever done, tryna track bait during damage used to get really annoying for no reason. They just gotta scoot the champ mod buff out of there
Better yet give us full UI customization, allow us to adjust the max amount of visual buffs, the option to split debuffs to the right and maybe even let us set a buff priority that lets us prioritize showing certain buffs on screen over others.
If every buff and debuff had a unique icon, then they could have a setting thats just symbols that pop up. Leave unique, encounter defining buffs/debuffs with text so you know its different from your usual kit.
Sometimes my screen decides to only show 3 buffs/debuffs at a time
I wouldn’t say it solved nothing. It is a huge change that fixes a lot of problems. They just need to go through different content and make sure things are in the place they should be. I expect over the coming weeks we will see updates to how buffs and debuffs are displayed.
the UI/UX team needs some help, some new additions (including shader icons) are textbook examples of what to avoid. Just to name a couple, displaying too many informations at once in list items (shaders) and placing elements too close to other informations (weapon buffs). I thought it would have made sense to place weapon buffs on the right, most of the screen is covered by the weapon in the majority of case. It also doesn't really make sense to spread the text that much.
Inb4 they go The Basic World Of Warcraft Icons for Debuffs Route Instead of Having Text it would be a Icon for It
I think it was a step in the right direction, but I also think they’re retarded. Why do I need people who don’t play the game to tell me how many buffs I should see so I can perform at my peak? The answer is I don’t. I need the option to select the display of 1 buff or 20 buffs. I want to see all my buffs so that I can calculate how well I am doing in my max damage. I don’t give 2 fucks if my HUD looks cluttered. I’d prefer clutter with information than no clutter and no information. Knowledge is power.
I think they should take a look at warframes buff/debuffs cause that's pretty easy to keep track of and can fit a lot of them in the Hud
There seems to be little priority applied to any of the timers. The timers could definitely be smaller, and provide us more space. They could even make it symbol based, so we can fit a ton more. Then eventually they could think about implementing those symbols onto targets, allowing you to see what buffs and debuffs a target has. That second part is complicated I'm sure for destinys....struggling engine lol
It's even a problem on base classes. On Voidwalker you can get all 3 void buffs this season, off of a single finisher, which causes 3 buffs to proc (Devour, Overshield, Invisibility) and two cooldown timers (Orb generation and Void breach, both from the same fragment that I can't fully remember the name of when you defeat a weakened target. Throw in armor charge, which is 1-2 more buffs, and off of one finisher you've already completely overloaded your buff/debuff tray before anything applied by allies or enemies.
It's actually insane how buffs still get lost on the screen. Especially since we have prismatic now, we have like 12 different buffs going on. We just need more slots for buffs instead of just 4 on the side. I would even settle for 4 on the left and 4 on the right or 8 or more in a very long line on the right.
It's beyond me why they refuse to utilize the right side and also the middle (above boss HP bar)
Bro said rejuvenation
Messes up my out of luck lucky pants 😪
I’m nearly positive they just don’t want more screen clutter, but I don’t understand why they don’t let us make that decision ourselves. It should be an option to let us show 8+ or something.
I still lose my rift constantly due to the absolutely tiny graphics
I dunno, on console it’s easier for me to tell what’s buffed and what’s not so I’m happy
Yea it’s dumb
''we hear your feedback, so now we are limiting buffs 4 total, if you have more at any given time you can't get buffed any more."
It's a step in the right direction but yeah, we should be able to have like 2x more on the screen at once
Theres still too many elemental buffs debuffs / effects (Devourer, Radiant, Amplified, Tangle Cooldown, Restoration, Darkness Aligned...etc etc) to be on the screen at one time. The amount of times I still lose track of what's affecting me feels the same as I did before TFS
What kills me is... years and years and years later, and the general buff/debuff area on the left of the screen can still only show four things. Come on.
I totally agree, at first I thought this was a welcome change, but in the end, it has solved absolutely nothing. Move buffs on one side, debuffs on another, raid/dungeon buffs/debuffs on the top. And allow us to set how many as the limit.
They did address this in a twid; they held off on creating a spot for more ui info in the bottom right on the screen bc they got feedback from the leaked ui that too many feeds seemed overwhelming but said they were going to continue monitoring feedback. As with all things in this game changes tend to happen incrementally as opposed to all at once and now that people are used to the new ui I am very much expecting them to add that spot for debuffs in the bottom right corner eventually bc it’s still very much needed
I would argue it’s caused more problems
Bungie seems to be really *really* into clean UI, which is something I honestly respect, even if I think they play a bit heavily into it. I imagine they found that the right hand buff display putting text literally everywhere on the screen made the screen feel really cagey and boxed in. Great info for us who care, but for the vast majority of players who don't need all that info it makes the general gameplay experience feel worse because it makes their sightlines feel more limited. Likewise, too many lines of text in one place makes things much less readable for those who aren't experienced, and often results in them simply ignoring what might be critical information. Personally, I think they should bump the four slot indicator on the left up to six or maybe eight, and play more with layered elements. Make Still Hunt's indicator an overlay that covers the upper or lower half of the super bar, and something similar with Gunpowder gamble and the grenade slot. That kind of thing. Stuff like that lets you get more info across without taking more screen space. The inevitable downside is that clearly labelling those becomes much more difficult, which again can lead less savvy players to ignore it, but at least in this case it doesn't cover up their view.
Icons , just icons is enough. and you can do 2-3 columns
I never know what my Combination Blow stacks are at all playing Prismatic
They should really remove the words altogether and just use symbols for each buff like in mmo's
Devour always gets pushed off and im having to use the visuals of buried bloodline (I'm lucky here) to tell if it on so I can be more aggressive if the timer isn't about to run out.
Important buff/debuff is under health bar and that is enought for me. Weapons buffs near super is just a bonus. Left side is something I dont talk about :D
There should be an option in settings such as "buff display limit" that lets you choose how many 'cause it's currently not enough. Imagine refactoring the UI, being proud about it, releasing prismatic at the same time and then you still can't see half your buffs like combi blow or knockout. Naeems wish fulfillment in WLR also goes to the left and gets pushed out by practically every over buff so I never know how long the damage phase has left, yippee
Just let the list go to the top of the screen. Problem solved
I cannot comprehend how Armor Charge didn't get a special place, it's a very unique and basic thing, and you have it 24/7. It's like having your magazine in buffs. And speaking on armor charges - the game telling you "faster ability cooldown x2" is absolutely useless since YOU PUT ON THE MODS YOURSELF, and it's not even telling you what abilites are cd'ing faster. The weapon surges KINDA makes sense considering some ways of getting them other than leg mods but sitll I'd think we don't need to see them.
Can anyone with UI prowess explain why all the buffs on screen is an issue? (If you have to get super nerdy, Im okay with it).
I can never see my combination blows stacks because of this so yes its annoying af.
Sorry guys we can only show you 4 buffs at a time because well, we vaulted part of the UI be sure to check back in the eververse store later to re purchase more unlocks for your UI - fraudgie dev probably
This is a hard problem to solve. I know "just put debuffs on the right side" sounds easy but Bungie tried that and reverted it for a good reason. I say this as a ffxiv player with my buffs and debuffs split to each side of my screen and enlarged to 120%. I'm still dying to fracturing in cooperative focus because I forget to look at the top of my screen. I appreciate that deadly debuffs are up there now, but I'm not used to it yet and it's not where my eyes go (I know if I'm low health without needing to look up). Putting debuffs on the right side frees up slots on the left but now you're looking at another spot on your screen where *nothing has ever been in this game before*. Giving armor charge related buffs and debuffs their own spot would free up even more slots but now you've got *another* new spot to look. I can barely even think to look above my super bar for weapon buffs. This might be a thing that Bungie start to iterate on slowly, but they probably released it this way so, at the very least, people could have time to slowly adjust to looking other places on their screen.
I don't understand why they don't just make the list bigger. Is it a programming problem? I genuinely don't see how that can be the case. Are they worried that we're just too stupid and will be overwhelmed? If so, make it an option to determine how many buffs you can see.
I was so confused when I started playing after tfs came out, I'm the clutter is slightly better but not much. This display update was one of the things I was most looking forward to.
Its also just less convinient to have to look to 2 additional locations to see weapon buffs and "important" buffs/debuffs
It’s a work in progress. It’s better than it was.
Facts, i thought i was the only one
Can someone explain to me why we can't have a system similar to BL3?
Because Bungie has to have it be their own.
I like being able to see if my bait and switch is working or not
I honestly like that they're in the same location, it keeps my eyes from having to dart to one less place on the screen to look for info. Clarity should be addressed though. If debuffs were red, or smaller, or had a divider between them etc I think it would be more readable without having to check the right of my screen. I will admit though, this issue is exacerbated for me as I use a UHD monitor for gaming. So moving it to the right would be annoying.
Even if cooldowns just had an icon that dynamically populated based on what you have slotted, could then grey out when on cooldown I think that would be so much easier to read.
erm its not rejuvenating its restoration /j