More buff banner abilities, we need abilities that are like the Soldier from TF2 where we can buff our allies while carrying the flag into battle. That would be a great addition to our class.
If the other classes can buff themselves but with little to no mobility, make Titans have a buff and be mobile!
Buff-Banners as barricade replacement feels like the way to go to give Titan some Team-Utility that might actualy matter.
Like, Rally-Barricade can be neat but it's super clumsy to use with barely any range to it. Having instead a Banner-like ability that boosts Reload-Speed, Flinch-Reduction and grants a healthy amount of DMG resist, that also follows the titan around, seems a much better deal.
I think Banner of War type effects should be a lot more common on Titan. Give Void a version of it that gives overshield (after they buff overshield), solar one that gives radiant, stasis gives frost armor, idk what arc should do but you get the point.
I feel like an arc aura improving reload speed and zapping enemies in the area or giving joltshot could be cool - wouldn't break anything by itself, but could be nice in team scenarios
Yeah, they could slap something like this onto existing aspects and titan would be a lot more interesting. Other stuff needs to happen too but auras being a titan thing would be dope
I think they should change the heal from Controlled Demolition to an Overshield, as well as making Overshield just stronger in PvE. It would play much nicer with Offensive Bulwark to provide a strong grenade and sustain engine for the class, while giving more protection to your allies.
Yeah, it should function like the way stasis shards with Rime used to work. Health until you're maxed and then overshield. That one change alone helps it synergize a lot more with Controlled Demotion and Unbreakable.
I would personally propose looking at some stuff from Paladins, and Barbarians from Dungeons and Dragons as some inspiration for Titans.
Paladins get an “aura” as a class feature that benefits the paladin and any other allied character within a set distance. Then each subclass gets their own unique “aura” on top of that. These auras are all constant and usually are some kind of buff to allies and self (many are damage or effect resistance) and there is at least one that is a debuff to enemies. Every Titan getting a constant aura or even a class ability activated aura would make so much sense. Even minor effects are super beneficial if they were constant or just long durations.
Paladins also get Smite, where they can use a “spell slot” to add burst damage to any weapon attack, could be also an addition to the Titan kit. Maybe a “hold melee to charge” type thing that then adds additional damage for a short period of time to any weapons. There are even a few different kinds of “smites” that have additional effects. The different melees could maybe add a debuff to shots fired on enemies hit.
As for Barbarian influence, Barbarians get Rage. Rage depending on subclass has different effects, but all Rage reduces the damage you take and can increase the damage you do. Some types of Rage have area of effects, but the main idea I see since there is such a focus on titans getting up close with their current kit is to let a Titan Rage. More damage they take the more damage they can give. Make them immune or resistant to knock back effects for a duration of time while “raging”.
I pretty often bounce between Titan and Warlock but Titan probably will always be my class. I enjoy the Titan playstyle to an extent because it just fits how I like to play the game. I love being up close and just smacking the shit out of red bars. It isn’t optimal, I’ve not raided once in D2, I’ve never done grandmasters and I suck in PVP. But I would love to have more of the Space Knight Tank vibes going. I used to flip around between Tank and Healer back in my WOW days because it’s what I enjoyed, I didn’t care about big numbers so much but I loved knowing that I was assisting the group in a significant way. I want that feeling for Titans.
Immune to knockback effects HELLOOOOOO stomp mechanics! You're done! Would be cool but they love their boss stomps too much I think. Would love it though.
“Dual sandbox” was such a marketing point for Witch Queen era D2 and then Bungie barely did anything with it.
Like how much of a fucking mess of spaghetti code is D2 if changing values in a db somewhere is somehow a heavy lift?
Tbh what's started to become clear to me over the last year or two (as a non-titan, I'm sure this has been obvious to others for ages) is that the power fantasy Bungie tries to push with titans is just incompatible with so much of the game's design. You can't have a melee-focused class in a game where 99% of bosses have some sort of repel/insta-kill attack that they will immediately use the second someone gets within 5 feet of them. It's frankly a fundamental failure of design. And I think we're too far along for there to be a good solution, or at least a quick and easy one.
We shouldn't be melee focused. We're soldiers, generals and strategists. Professionals. The class should be a master at arms or fireteam support class. Banner is a good reference point and could honestly be something to rework everything around. We're now Flag Bearers and capable of buffing the team.
Banner of War as the only universal Aspect in the game would be super dope. Effect changes based on your class and provides some sort of DR against on your class element. Arc boosts team movement speed or damage, Solar provides Radiant buffs or healing, etc.
And I'll never not say it, but Ward should always have an aggro mechanic.
It might be cool if they split all the support functions across all 3 classes. Titans are buffers, Hunters debuffers, and Warlocks healers. Theoretically, the ideal fire team would be 2 of each class, one primarily offensive and the other primarily support.
But yeah, Titans got power crept on hard. As the game evolved and the other 2 grew in power, the niche that Titans provided in a much more simple and straightforward sandbox disappeared. As much as I love spawning 2 buddies and getting Devour going with a sword on a horde, it really feels like this should be a Titan's role.
We have Exotics like Actium War Rig which give really cool&fun Niche Buffs. We've got Bubble, we've got Shield, We've got the Void Axes. Let us spread this shit to our Team, and if there are no Teammates have the Buffs we get from them be stronger.
I don't care if it makes Titans more "viable" in the META or not as long as it's fun and doesn't feel out of place.
An Exotic that makes it so when we use our Class Ability it gives us&our Allies a really strong Kinetic/Strand/Stasis Overshield that will screw with enemies that get too close to it would be neat.
The problem is Bubble damage is worse than having a damaging super, the shield is basically made of paper, and nobody wants to pick up the void axes you just three at the feet of the enemy - especially since their rockets probably do more damage anyways.
Played since just before VoG was released in D1.
This is why I stopped playing back in WQ when they released the trailer for Lightfall and the introduction of Strand. It was that moment of, “It’s just a green Fist of Havoc.” that was the final nail in the coffin that Bungie just doesn’t get it and never will.
We don’t want *another* melee roaming super. We want damage supers. (Cue multiple nerfs to Thundercrash & Cuirass)
And, to put salt in the wound, any time Titan has a good punching build, it gets nerfed to hell. It’s basically:
“You can only punch.”
“Okay, I’m going to do it this way then. Since it’s fun and it does a lot of damage.”
“No, not like that.”
The joke has always been that no one at Bungie, or just the sandbox team, plays Titan at a high level. It was obvious back then and it looks like it hasn’t changed, nearly 2 years later.
Titan design has been lazy and uninspired for multiple expansions. This *should* be a wake up call to Bungie, but they’ll ignore it. Like always.
You hit the nail on the head with “no, not like that” - every workaround or very specific build that works is quickly nerfed or the perk of that build’s exotic is reworked/“reworded” to change how it fundamentally works, more often than not because “this element isn’t functioning as we intended”
yep
the #1 titan problem doesnt need a giant wall of text saying "X class does MUH MELEE FANTASY better!!!!"
its that titan has close to 0 options for the high end PvE content cus it gets pushed into melee all the time
and when melee is good in that content, we get Release Banner of War that tears the game appart everywhete
titan needs like half of its ussules "melee parts" that nobody is using anyway all replaced with ranged options + 2-3 good ranged dmg supers, going even more into "melee fantasy" doesnt help at all cus "melee fantasy" is always either ussules or broken with no inbettwen
Remember on Void Titan when you could choose to use the roaming super or the bubble? Long gone now but I appreciated choices like that when we had them. Wouldn't hurt to have alternative supers like that for different situations again.
This is the kinda thing that makes me want a Destiny 3. Its not fixable in Destiny 2 without ripping apart and remaking the game, which would be 10x easier and worthwhile to do within a new game
I will also say that the class item for titan is complete garbage. Like how the hell is Crest of Alpha lupi a freaking perk and horrorfrostz. Like I don't understand how insurmountable skullfront perk to get health on melee kills wasn't even considered
Even if you accept alpha lupi being on the class item why doesn't it work with thruster?! Its not just a weird choice its straight up lazy. Hunter's "spirit of crytarachine" was made to give woven mail on just using ANY grenade, would it really be so OP if alpha lupi gave a fart of healing on thruster use?
What's funny is that you get essentially the same effect on Thruster if you use Powerful Attraction and Recuperation. This season on Prismatic I'm getting OS, Amplified, and Radiant all on Thruster use near orbs.
Spirit of the Lupi is an actually dead class item roll.
I have been saying this for years. The damage isn’t the problem with Titan. It’s the fact that most builds feel like it’s missing a crucial piece no matter what.
Look at void Titan as an example. It needs all 3-4 aspects and 5-6 fragments in order to feel like a full class but has to only pick only 2 and 4 fragments. Offensive bullwark is great but needs a reliable overshield. Disregarding the fact OS’s feel like wet tissue paper in the current sandbox, you could just use the bastion aspect to get you the benefits from OB. However, if you do that you are then missing controlled demolition which feels mandatory on void titan to stay alive (again given OS’s are almost impossible to keep up past 2 seconds). So either you are struggling to generate overshields to make OB usable or you are handicapped by not having CD (sorry for all the acronyms).
I could list the same issues with all other non strand subclasses. But hey let’s all just play strand then despite it getting nerfed every patch…
Lastly, the issue sub classes are facing are also infecting Titan exotics. Synthos/wormgod are the only exotics that feels…whole. Doomfang and ursas should honestly be combined into one. I’m not even going to start on helm of s14 which should honestly be removed and weapons of light be put back into bubble (one of the dumbest things bungie did in the latest patch). 95% of all other titan exotics outside the brand new ones are just so bad.
The easiest fix for void titan is to add shield-gating with overshields, then revert Bastion to it's release state
> Fuck PvP I don't care if that breaks something that was always broken
That new hunter chest that gives resist for jolting is the kind of tanky type of asset Titans could definitely use. The titan exotics could be reworked to be more defensive and team defensive, similar to renewal grasps. They keep giving tank options to hunter for some reason instead of titans
Anything that requires enemies to you shoot at you Banner, Unbreakable, Arc Staff deflecting, seems to just make the enemies stop shooting a lot of the time and it's so frustrating.
It's true. Prismatic uses Tcrash for mobility or proccing amplified only. Also coupled with the fact you can have the rocket salvo and class ability back in literal seconds....
Yeah the rocket one is unique thing and we hold on to that with our crayola covered hands.
Its subclass agnostic. Elemental type agnostic.
It's pretty much one useful thing you could use on any subclass and it'd still provide good buff. (hot damn I'd love no backup plan if it had different keyword buff for each element. It's stupid it doesn't because it even has unique color for each elemental type)
Chest piece is too much fun. Should even buff Ergo Sword wolf pack rounds which I believe it does.
Works well with facet of command, which will probably get nerfed in some way.
Titans were flying since D1 with death from above and then they added twilight garrison. Explain to me Bungo how Warlocks are the flyboys aside from that you decided so? I will never forgive them for not bringing my ugly ass chest back in some way.
You are crazy if you think this chest is remotely good.
The hunter exotic gives you bomblets on the 2 most useless aspect of arc hunter, they do pitifully dmg.
Every jolt you inflict you get a stacking resist buff, up to x4, witch is 45% at max stacks with a 10s duration.
Basically you have woven mail at max stacks, but you only get a stack if the jolt you inflict is done on an enemy that is at around 10-15m from you (personal testing).
Basically you are using an exotic slot for kind of constant woven mail since the rest of this exotic is trash.
Cytarachne on strand has arguably better uptime than gifted conviction and is widely considered a bad exotic in pve.
On the other hand titan rocket chest (when the bug gets fixed of the 35% dmg being overridden by other empowering buffs like radiant) gives a 35% dmg buff on demand and basically a free 100k dmg on class ability cast witch is potent, this 35% buff is empowering most of the meta weapons too.
All in all both are not great but I would still give it to the titan chest, 45% resist in this sandbox is nothing crazy, there are a lot of ways to get dmg resist via your subclass now, and the titan chest at least does something unique that is not completely gimmicky.
Not to mention if your on Titan and that down bad for resistance Stronghold already hands out 50% DR for free in addition to the naturally high sword resist. All that and we haven't gotten to the Restoration x2 yet. Plus we have a special weapon sword now so you can another non-sword heavy if you prefer.
Sorry but I'm not giving up the very fun rocket body that absolutely cooks for a jolting/DR body. If I really want to jolt I got contact brace for that.
The insane thing is that they had years, and there are TONS of things you can do to make the subclasses have a melee identity but different.
Dark Knight?
Paladin?
Berserker?
A fighter?
Master of arms?
A monk?
A wrestler?
A gladiator?
A samurai?
A spearman?
So many, yet they just seem very similar.
Like literally all they had to do was go to tvtropes...
https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/FantasyCharacterClasses
It blows my mind that we got Stasis and Strand and no one at Bungie thought of "dark knight" on the fucking class that has had knight themes in the lore they wrote since D1. How the fuck did they make Warlock an Ice Wizard and not take the next logical step?
A lot of people complain about Titan's melee focus, but I've always loved it. The problem is the melee is so uninventive. Nothing but punch, punch, more punch, comically yeeting a hammer, and the shield throw. They even mostly use similar animations outside of Frenzied Blade.
As your link proved, even within the bounds of "melee focused tank" there are tons of permutations that are all super distinct, visually iconic, and possibly interesting to design around in a shooter. And they just keep giving us punches that arent even better than combination blow lmao. Diamond Lance and Twilight Arsenal are like, the only times in a decade they seem to have realized that there's more to their stated class fantasy than decking someone in the face.
I don't think I'd play anything else if behemoth titan was themed more like frost death knights from WoW. I'd do just about anything for that. Or strand could have been like unholy dk's. We already have poisons, moths, and "pets."
I always thought Behemoth Titan should have gotten a big two handed Axe. Get some death metal ice Viking vibes going. But the problem I see with my idea of what a cool Behemoth Titan would be ends up just with a similar aesthetic as Burning Maul and throwing hammers… just ice themed.
Really wish Sunbreakers were more sword focused than hammers. Have a great sword variation of Warlock’s dawnblade.
I guess a sword could work with Behemoth too. Pierce the ground and freeze everything around you. Do wave/caster frame style slashes that also freeze/slow. Icefall mantle should just be inherit to the stasis subclass honestly, the slowness would suck but making the stasis subclass ability just to coat yourself in ice armor for a strong overshield is cool.
Titan has been flanderized worse than characters in decade long TV shows. It's sad tbh. Even in pantheon, I ran with my clan and the guy doing fireteam finder posts for a 5th and 6th really preferred to not have titans on the team...and I don't blame him. Well had not been nerfed yet, and celestial nighthawk was pumping insane damage numbers due to the then recent buff and the artifact.
Come Final Shape, we have a final boss that favors crits (which NO TITAN SUPER FAVORS) and the release of Still Hunt which has synergy with celestial nighthawk to pump absolutely absurd damage numbers with insanely good ammo economy.
No team with any serious ambitions of getting day one clears or world's first was going to run titans, when you can spam what is essentially a 10% nerfed celestial goldie every 10 seconds on a boss that has an insanely easy crit spot to hit.
At this point, if titans don’t have star eaters they’re throwing. After having two titans on witness encounter, it’s very sad how bad they pull numbers. At least warlock can skate by with the crazy support they have. Toss healing nade to make a turret to give some breathing room, some bleak watchers, cenotaph for more dps. Fuck it, go child of the gods and apply a 15% debuff with a solid vortex super.
Titans are just everywhere, hunters are doing better melee performance.
The only thing titans are good at is personal survival and preventing a team wipe, which doesn’t even matter in endgame where revive tokens make that irrelevant.
I really don't mind being melee focused, i mean i do, but only because melee is basicakly dead in endgame without niche builds, I care that it's ONLY punching, or at best slashing or throwing. There's so man different melee weapons we could have gotten, but we're stuck sticking rainbow puke on our fists and punching.
Based on the way Bungie has been dividing out pop culture, Fighter, Monk, Samurai and Spearman would go to Hunter. Dark Knight and Paladin would go to Warlock and we would get Wrestler and Gladiator... Which is still basically just punching...
I know HOIL was broken but it’s probably the most fun I’ve ever had playing this game. Arc titan was actually good and strong and fast paced yet had good survivability with heal thyself. Everything it had from seraph has been nerfed or gutted by now so there’s that I guess
Fwiw, HOIL on prismatic is a noticable upgrade for the the prismatic grenade if also paired with shield throw
I know, I know, shield throw's hit reg is a rough one, but with glacier grenade as well, it hits decently hard.
Might just be my play style but too, but still worth a try at least
I remember loving the Void Overshield buff at the Seraph as well. Then it was reverted or something on Lightfall where it became tissue paper again. I don't know what happened, but it felt like that buff never happened.
I honestly did not mind the banner of war nerf at all cuz it was objectively broken, the thing that pisses me off is how they went and just allowed a different class to outdo it immediately lol. What the fuck was the point in nerfing the Titan then..?
One of the funniest instances of this was old renewal grasps getting destroyed and then literally the next season they added solar 3.0 with pre nerf restoration, reworked loreley, and added 40% DR to resilience.
Like come on man, do the people balancing stuff and the people developing stuff not talk to eachother?
Renewal Grasps were nerfed solely because of PvP.
Granted, in span of 6 weeks from that nerf, PvP still got utterly broken because of Classy Restoration, and it's infinite uptime on Hunters.
But I guess it's the thoughts and commitment to "keeping PvP healthy" that counts, not actual reality, right?
Im a titan main, but i LOVE renewal grasps...
Its what i used in my attempt to beat VoD day 1/2 but poor teammate combos lead that to fail... and was genuinely so salty it got nerfed bc of pvp but im glad its back (now maybe... rebuff lorely? Pwease lol)
Let's be honest here. Well was fucking busted, but Fireborn punched a hole in the fundamental fabric of the game. Nothing has ever been, or will ever be, broken in the way that Fireborn was broken.
Fireborn was easily solved for in encounters by having the wipe mechanics drain your super before killing you.
Well of Radiance has forced all encounters to be designed around it since Forsaken, six years ago.
Unfortunately the biggest design fumble the game has had, it’s a shame it took them 10 years to realise they could have just removed self res and kept the super.
So much this. I think the game is healthier with balance between classes and within a class. Banner nerf was needed. Then they came and threw the idea of balance out the window in TFS.
I’m just sad about the shared nerf for behemoth. Crazy harsh it seems. I like behemoth in pvp bc it feels like a high skill ceiling. Manstrual and Nicho both play it so well that it inspired me. I’m not a PvP guy at all but as Cammycakes says behemoth “scratches that itch” for me.
I feel the shard nerf isn't even the worst of it. The chains rework and introduction of frost armor killed behemoth for me. While I've heard great things from the other stasis classes and I'm happy for them; As a Behemoth main in practically every activity this game offers -- PvP, GMs, Onslaught, etc. -- it's a shell of its former self.
While it was never meta, the potential from the kit felt limitless. The power fantasy of encasing entire rooms in crystals to shield allies or neutralize threats at will via shatter was exhilarating. Not to mention the movement capabilities with glacier nade and shiverstrike allowed me to dive into combat and be the wall that refused to fall.
For titans anyway, frost armor is outright a worse version of chains in every regard. Frost armor has 10% less damage reduction at MAX stacks AND with whisper of rime. What once was instant, indefinite DR from most of your abilities now requires one or two fragments AND an aspect slot to be remotely viable. Otherwise, hopefully you have external forms of healing in your arsenal.
The rest of the changes regarding, diamond lances, shatter damage, and whisper of torment are very much appreciated, but what I would give to play pre-Final Shape Behemoth again...
I honestly wish Frost armor didn’t stack as high but had slightly higher DR. 3 stacks base, 5 with Rime, 10% per stack. It’s easier to visualize and means it’d take less to get to max. I so wish that wasn’t an aspect and instead just a fragment though, I’d love to rock Cryoclasm on Titan and actually get DR on Warlock with Osti turrets.
Honestly they just should give us a fragment that’s just “stasis shards give frost armor stacks”
Then, to ensure it doesn’t completely make the aspects obsolete (tho they still let you make shards really easy without needing a fragment), they can give each class some unique interaction with shards.
Titans maybe get double frost armor stacks per shard pick up and/or get a bonus to shatter damage for a short time after picking up shard or just while they have frost armor
Hunters could bonuses to stasis damage for like very short time after picking up a shard, or have all their abilities cause more slow stacks while they have frost armor
Warlocks could have their abilities boosted while they have frost armor, their melee shoots out an extra projectile or two in a small spread, their super lasts longer, and their rifts are larger or more powerful.
It’s actually shocking how much the supposed rework just killed the class further :(
Not to mention it was my main in pvp but I kinda hate it now since they changed cryoclasm back to its old unchainable form that feels like garbage to use. Not to mention it’s currently bugged and just doesn’t work half the time.
In PVP behemoth def got hit pretty hard. Cryoclasm isn't even turned on during super and howl of the storm is bugged. In PVE behemoth still cooks for end game GMs / Dungeons and stronghold lament is one of the best add clear builds in the game. And lanceap with wicked implement is a CC machine. Crazy how behemoth makes up 0.5% in trials yet Hunters are nearly 50% of the population and barely get touched. Yet a triple stack of behemoth is the problem but 50% of a game mode is made up by 1 single class.
As a diehard hunter main, I agree with everything you've said here. I didn't even make a titan for a really long time, because nothing about titan really appealed to me, and I felt (and still do) that honestly a lot of what titans do, hunters can do "better." We have multiple great melee/punch builds, high damage supers/dps rotations in general, and some solid support builds in renewal grasps, omnioculous, hell even mothkeepers.
What I would love to see for titan is more things like banner of war that benefit a titan \*and their team\* for doing well. I'd love to see a void titan that can give their teammates overshields and volatile rounds (in a way other than forcing the team to stand behind a tiny little wall lol), arc titans providing amplified and maybe some form of DR, etc. I refuse to believe the creative well has run so dry that they can't think of a way to give titans a useful and unique niche.
I feel for my titan brethren.
I love that you called out void titan overshields because I've been saying we should be able to throw our shield at teammates to get them fat overshields for a short period of time (sort of like the new prismatic fragment does for us) - bonus points if it can bounce off them and hit other homies
>I'd love to see a void titan that can give their teammates overshields
Code of the Protector had that on melee kills with defensive strike and Code of the Commander let your void detonator explosions restore health, melee, and grenade energy for you and allies with controlled demo
My dream is where I can apply actually helpful void overshields with the melee and have controlled demo back in its original form.
And also to make Bubble better somehow.
I didn’t read everything but retail WoW has the same issue w class identity. When you have all classes do all things well it gets pretty muddy…
Anyway, Hunter is big time dps don’t looks like I need to get mine up to level
This is true, but you can't then give a class an identity that is garbage or boring. It's one thing if all classes have unique identities that are equally strong, fun to play, and varied within the identity. But if you give one class an identity like "shoot gun", another "use space magic", and the third "punch", in a game revolving entirely around guns and space magic that has no actual melee combat system, it's no surprise that the "punch" class is going to be generally weak and unfun.
Titans' identity *can't* be only melee (and *definitely* not "punch"). *It doesn't work*. There is no melee combat system in this game, just "stand near enemy and press melee button".
Funnily enough the arc strider super has a "melee system" with different combos for single or aoe damage etc. Not that anyone uses it for that but it is there.
Can we expect a class rework, no, but we could expect a better Super that isn't just punchy super in a new flavour. If they released a machine gun super I would play Titan way more.
You’re gonna get a lot of flak and people aren’t going to read it because it’s a long post and there’s been soooo much Titan discourse lately, but you’re right on the money with it.
I’m a case of the exact issue you’ve mentioned - somebody who wants to be a Titan main, but has abandoned the class in favor of Warlock.
The lack of identity, the horrid barricade, being stuck to the same two classes we’ve been using for a year and a half if we want to contribute in endgame.
And at this point, Warlock’s identity is so much more varied and interesting, I can’t say I’ll go back.
For all the talk about Hunters taking over Titan’s melee identity, even Warlocks have a banger melee build on Prismatic. Feed the Void, Lightning Surge, Crown of Tempests and Storm Grenade (plus the artifact mod for DR while amplified) make for a pretty potent melee heavy build that has a comparable gameplay loop to Knockout + Consecration but with far more survivability AND ability spam.
Honestly, I’ve heard rumors that Bungie is planning to do away with classes in the eventual “D3”, and assuming you buy into either of those, it would make sense. They can keep the “punch” identity to a set portion of the accessible abilities and let every have access to them, as well as the more unique ones.
Prismatic always seemed like a shortcut to me over creating a completely new subclass. And it's clear the Titans were the big losers in the Prismatic "battle."
I assumed that the Titan kit would get some massive buffs from the Stoicism exotic combos, but they really avoided doing anything close to controversial like having a Cuirass/Star-Eater combo, Peregrine/Synthoceos, or Wormgod/Synthoceps.
And don't get me started on the transcendence grenade skipping off to Narnia.
Focusing just on the grenade part, I haven’t done titan yet is the grenade really that hard to use? I’ve found hunters to be basically useless unless I can stick it directly to an enemy because of how janky every. Single. Surface. Is when I throw it on one
It’s not it just acts like a real grenade. You can even bounce it off of walls to hit enemies behind cover. It’s also generally just really good crowd control with good dmg. I think ppl just aren’t used to grenades that don’t explode on impact or stick to a surface
not even a little bit lol. it has a large radius and detonates shortly after hitting any terrain - it's predictable and easy to use. the people complaining are just not used to physics-based grenades, there's nothing actually wrong with it
One of your examples is a Super, and the other two are melee-focused.
That right here is the issue. I don't care about meleeing things to death, cheesing bosses, or having a spike in damage once every 5 minutes.
I care about shooting things for a long time. Throwing lots of grenades. Good ability loops. Being very resilient. Providing my team with all of these buffs. Keeping my teammates from dying. EXPLOSIONS.
The Titan fantasy goes far beyond "melees and supers", and Bungie seems to know that, because we have lots of effects and exotics that go far beyond "punch things or make them go boom". HoiL, Hazardous Propulsion, Armamentarium, No Backup Plans, One-Eyed Mask, Lorelei, Actium War Rig, Precious Scars.
Some of these exotics suck, but my point stands: they expand on what it means to be a Titan. Bungie needs to lean *more* into this kind of thing, not less, like they did with Prismatic.
The combos we got are just a bunch of crap for the most part.
Why couldn't we get Verity in the first column and Armamentarium in the 2nd? Nope! Both in the 2nd.
With 1 grenade aspect like Touch of Thunder we could have had an awesome grenade spam build.
I just settled on HOIL/Armamentarium and thats been my favorite so far.
They went so hard on making sure nothing was OP on stoicism that they forgot they could just do a plane old P, and make something fun and powerful but not broken.
That's the crazy thing, in a sane world titans aren't losers in prismatic. its a reasonable kit where the biggest hang-up is inflexibility. It's just that it's like the balance team went over titan with a fine toothed comb to make sure nothing imba existed (the drengr/thruster fart cloud doesn't just happen, its a conscious choice to nerf the interaction) but then just rubber stamped the other two classes kit without looking at them.
God what I wouldn't do for Hallowfire Heart and Phoenix Cradle/Loreley Splendor to be a possible combo on the exotic class item, but instead it feels like the overwhelming majority of combinations are painfully mid.
They threw I'm a bunch of underused exotics for titan, which is weird, because one, there was a reason they weren't used very often, and two, the other classes get access to some pretty broken combo's
Yeah it's so fucking weird.
Our stat is mobility but it sucks and is useless. Our jump is vertical, meaning every class can jump spam to our speed us. Until Acrobat Dodge we had zero support for the fire team on our class ability (I hate dodge is our class ability tbh). 99% of our exotics either are trash or require a super specific playstyle, and nothing just super fun and engaging. Also, smoke bomb sucks.
Then Titans become less punchy than us on Prismatic? How? Why? It's entire existence was dumbed down to punch, yet Hunter has a better punching flow with Prismatic. I still can't believe the only true one and done super for Titans is Thundercrash. Why don't they have their Nova Bomb/Golden Gun yet? Strand Titan getting ANOTHER roaming punch is so dumb still. Melee is the worst thing (I love Ergo Sum to be clear) because EVERYTHING gets a knock back that does more damage than the Collapse did. So their entire identity is antithetical to the sandbox.
Warlocks just get beaten down with a baseball bat because Well was downright the worst thing to add to this game. It forced entire encounters to be designed with Well in mind, and then they just don't give them decent melee.
It's so confusing how they look at all this and think it's fine? It too us like 6 expansions for Hunters to get proper synergy with an exotic weapon and armor (Moth arms and moth gun iirc, and then Still Hunt and Celestial.) while Titans I don't think have any and Warlocks got like 4. I've seen more exotics DoA because they're so bad it hurts or they go against every common sense thing.
I just don't get it.
I’ve been saying something similar for years now.
Either we are the “fist/punch class” and they should lean into that and stop nerfing us for making builds to excel at this niche.
Or we aren't and they should rework what they want Titan to be.
Outstanding post that articulates exactly everything wrong with Titans.
> Titans don’t need a buff. We NEED a REWORK. A complete overhaul of our identity that was forced upon us. We don’t want to be the boring punching class anymore. We need something, anything different than punching. Because we suck at this point, and it breaks my heart to say that.
This underlies all the recent titan threads, its not necessarily about buffing the class. That would just result in one off increases to discrete abilities or items that can easily be nerfed in the future. What needs to happen is a rework overall to give the class synergy between its different elements like Warlock and Hunter. I said yesterday in another thread that Bungie needs to put its best class designers on titan to rework it.
Funny thing is, they keep giving Hunters DPS options, and Warlocks healer options, but seem allergic to giving Titans tanking options. Now, granted, part of that is because really good tanking can trivialize a lot of activities, but still.
The problem is, they’re on one subclass and similar effects need to be expanded to all of them. IMO Sunspots should benefit teammates without the use of Phoenix Cradle is one example.
Titan definitely wasn't just seen as the punch class in D1 or launch d2.
Imo they only really started simplifying titan down and describing it as the punch class when they added stasis. Then everything was calcified when they doubled down and did the 3.0 reworks for the light subclasses.
All of the class abilities always felt completely designed around pvp for me. Call me crazy but rift on its own doesn't feel too viable in the hardest pve content the game has to offer either.
Almost every prismatic warlock and titan are using their movement class abilities because they just fit into the game better than placing an object. Class abilities are being used most of the time because of the things that happen when you use your class ability like hellion or reaper or heart of inmost light or the new rocket chest piece for titans not because the class ability itself.
Provides anything useful.
If class abilities were universal, everyone would be using one of the hunter dodges or phoenix dive in pve 95% of the time because they feel like they provide more AND have a faster cooldown for getting the on class ability benefits people actually want.
Dude... I will call you crazy if you think Rift doesn't have a place in PvE. I've played all three classes, and Warlock has the best class ability as a baseline and it's not close. The number one thing that everyone needs in harder content is a way to heal on demand, and every single Warlock gets it as a baseline. Your health is the resource that lets you play the game. Low health? Hide behind cover. No health? Literally start over.
A little somersault? A wall? They're good situationally, but the most common situation is taking and dealing damage. And only one class has a class ability that helps with both those things.
I just think Titan class ability could use a rework for sure. Both warlocks and hunters class ability is really good. Titan just plops a paper thin wall. Too many enemies have crazy splash dmg and can rush you for just sitting behind a barricade. Plus, it gives no benefits. Warlocks heal, hunters get full abilities back.
They went in the right direction when Void 3.0 launched and gave us Bastion. Would have loved if each subclass did something with its barricade. Hell I would have thought they would have made Kepri’s current benefit an aspect, and reworked the exotic to be the solar version of Abeyant Leap.
Edit: I originally said Offensive Bulwark instead of Bastion. I always mix them up…I’m a terrible Titan main.
Yeah bastion barricade was awesome when void 3.0 launched, and you could plant one every 14 (rally) or 25 (tower) seconds.
Nowadays though? Rally bastion cooldown is about 50 seconds, tower bastion about 80. Absolutely useless for pve with how flimsy void overshields are. Still was usable with unnerfed HOIL, but the HOIL class ability buff going from 100/200% for 10s to 25/50% for 5s absolutely destroyed that build too.
And yeah, titans having no class ability interaction on any subclass (and the one they had on void being absolutely destroyed) unless you run an exotic for it, really limits the subclasses.
They specifically gave the hunter stasis slow dodge a buff that gives it lower cooldown in pve than pvp with final shape... why oh why didn't they also give that to bastion barricade? Things like this really make me think no one who has anything to say at Bungie plays titan much.
The HOIL nerf was way too harsh. Feel like a good healthy medium would be 75/100% regen for 7 seconds would be better. Btw, what’s the point of thruster? It doesn’t reload my weapons, doesn’t give me melee energy or refund it if performed near enemies, doesn’t heal me. Just moves me in whatever direction I feel like moving. Feels like other than a smaller cool down than rally barricade, it should provide another benefit. Guess we’ll have to wait until another exotic drops for it to get an improvement of some kind.
Agree, I think the barricade at a minimum should provide an Auro of damage reduction. That 1 change would be very helpful in a support role. Call it something like Barricade Defense Aura.
Then allow exotics to interact with this Aura. Such as, while under the effects of Barricade Defense Aura, kills reload your equipped weapons from reserves.
Have barricades become mobile shields instead? Like once you place it down, you can pick it up? Maybe it hovers in front of the player, causing weapons to apply debuffs on hit? Or be able to push the barricade forward, cover teammates, and go for revives? Or just make it so barricades can reflect a portion of projectiles? Idk what to do. Most options are just borderline warframe or too broken for pvp. Remove barricades damage on contact for pvp so enemies can walk through it, but it applies a class specific debuff like jolt or volatile or scorch? Can I please just throw the barricade then? Sorry, I'm just ranting here.
Honestly, maybe we need a bit of Warframe. Give us the ability to pick up barricades and (maybe) grant weapons the ability to prod status effects when shot through a barricade at the cost of some of its health, idk.
Read everything and agree with most. There are a lot of exotics that have near no usability, but Titans have the most of them. And as far as their identity goes, it's just as you've said; they're the punching class but this isn't a game designed for melee combat, and even if it was, they're getting outclassed.
Before I talk about some other shit, I need to talk about something melee related. I like Glaives, but I hate how they block the powered melee abilities, just like the swords. That alone makes me steer away from Glaives completely. As Swords use heavy ammo (with the exception of the newer Ergo Sum), I rarely touch them.
Both Glaives and Swords need to allow powered melee abilities channelled through them. Wish Glaives and Swords were equipped on a dedicated melee item slot and enhanced your melee abilities. Even if Titans excelled at punching stuff, it gets quickly old seeing the very same punch animation for the umpteenth time.
With that Glaive complaint out of the way, I'd like to talk about Titan's barricade. It should be replaced by something like Banner of War. Melee hits, kills and finishers by anyone affected by the buff should extend its duration, and it should provide very high melee damage reduction.
The alternate version of the banner could provide a buff that gets strengthened the more people are in the aura and could provide ranged/color damage reduction instead. Strand's Aspect could amplify the effects, and maybe allow you to use air dash plant the banner on the ground, increasing its radius while dealing damage.
The Banner of War as Titan Class Ability suggestion above won't make the game more melee friendly on its own, but maybe with some tweaks to the existing melee weapons, such an ability could help Titans gaining a new identity as frontline soldiers. Still not enough though.
The prismatic I won't go into much detail, as I think that prismatic is rather restrictive. Some combos are unhinged for sure, but when you take those unhinged stuff out of the equation, prismatic feels like half a class. I can talk about this a lot, so I'll be skipping as it's mostly irrelevant.
One thing Bungie needs to do is separate PvP sandbox from PvE sandbox completely. An old game called Guild Wars (the first one) is one of the first games that I've seen which did exactly that. When you were in a PvP, some of your skills would be replaced with their PvP variants and some were completely different.
Without such a separation, what we get is PvP or PvE concerns and/or changes affecting each other, and I've read quite a few posts over here in the last few days. I wonder if such concerns affected the development of prismatic at all, given how restrictive it actually is when you ignore some combos with exotics.
Back to the topic, I've always seen Hunters as the sneaky, self-sufficient, accurate, infiltrator types. Warlocks are usually the wise, supportive, team-player, rearguard types. Titans as the vanguard (frontline), defensive, leader, tactical types. In the game however, Titans manage to be none of those.
The common denominator is the class ability, hence why I keep saying get rid of barricade, give banner. I truly believe that replacing the class ability with Banner of War would not only replace a shitty ability with a great one, but it'll also grant the leader & frontline descriptors to Titans very easily.
Anyway, I've strayed off topic here and there, apologizes. Exotics and other individual abilities like supers and whatnot would be a long read/write, which I won't go into. All I can say for those is, if Bungie tries to fix anything through those, they'll just compel everyone to use those instead of actually fixing anything.
Buffs and shit are bandaids at this point. As you've said, a rework is needed. Titan is my least played class, but to be honest I'd welcome such a rework. But more than anything else, PvE and PvP affecting each other needs to stop as it affects the whole game and not just the Titans in my opinion.
Whenever I play Warhammer 40k: Darktide, I find myself latching onto some of the classes' abilities and dreaming that I could use them when I play a Titan.
For example, the Ogryn Taunt/Shield tank build. This is what I wanted Unbreakable to be. Taunting all enemies around you and pulling the agro away from your teammates to give them some breathing room while you tank the damage...or quite literally being able to trample through all of them (this is what the Juggernaut aspect should have been all about lol).
The ability "Voice Of Command" on Veteran unleashes a 360° AoE effect around you that gives you breathing room and pushes all enemies away from you, and replenishes you and your teammates shields. Every time you do it there's also such a badass battlecry ["I WANNA HEAR THEM SCREAM!"](https://youtu.be/WsjZaHk8mbs?si=lkPmtduVlfc5hglf) You can also auto revive teammates with this.
It's things like this that would fit Titan perfectly, as well as fit the original "Unbreakable wall and tactician" description of Titans. It really is such a shame that the overall Titan class infrastructure is just a goddamn mess and at this point Bungie has dug the class into such a hole, it's almost hopeless, from a creativity standpoint.
Bungie needs to lean into Titan as the tank class, but for whatever reason they think "lol punch" is the correct identity. I wouldn't mind Titan having inferior melee and single-target damage to Hunter and inferior ability uptime and crowd control to Warlock if I could keep myself and the rest of the fireteam alive better. Bastion and Banner of War are the right direction for Titan: let us protect ourselves and the team with overshields and/or healing. If you want Warlocks buffing damage instead, that's fine with me. And Hunters can have the best damage supers and exotic interactions if you want. But let Titans be the protection class that keeps everyone alive and able to push forward.
I agree with this.
I **love** playing a tank class in games. In the Superhero MMOs the Tank class did less damage but was more durable.
It could even work for PVP - can your durability outlast a Hunter's high damage abilities? Or a Warlock's plus their healing?
Titans should really be: Here's the line in the sand - now come at me bro.
I remember this being essentially the dillema of playing a hunter pre subclass 2.0 after the golden gun nerf. Hopefully titans defensive capacity will be bolstered in end game content without harming other classes.
It'll be unfortunate if (more like when) bungo inevitably nerfs golden gun again so no one except warlock is having fun.
I wanted so bad for the titans to be the Braum of LoL. I want defense, I can sacrifice dps for a defensive subclass. Let me also defend others (Sentinel shield but more frequent and smaller). You hit the nail on the head about the good ideas out there and just the need for an identity that they are best at bar none that is relevant. ANYTHING. In most rpg trios you have the melee,ranged,magic. I don't often see the ranger out melee damage a barbarian, and yet here we are!
10 year Titan main as well here. So much said in this post, mostly I agree, some parts I think could've been put together better. For example, most exotics you listed, I won't even call them "good" or "not bad", they are straight up bad. Lorely is a cope exotic that I still see some titans run, but it's just not that great if you want meta strong builds. I know, meta, ewww. But literally if you want to compete with Synthos, Gryfalcon, Nighthawk, Sunbracers....etc, 90% of titan exotics are just mid.
I always like to take a step back to see if what being said is fair to everyone, to make sure I'm not just crying and biased, so let's take a look. I'm counting meta exotics that are widely used in the current sandbox, whether pvp or pve. Hunters have Nighthawk, Assassin's Cowl, Foetracer, Kunckle Head, Crytarachne's Facade, Mask of Bakris, Wormhusk, Liar Handshake, Renwal Grasp, Dragon's Shadow, Gryfalcon, Omnioculus, Orpheius Rig, Lucky Pants, Dance Machine, Stompee, Star Eater. Like holy fuck at least half of it has some uses. I have to have a excel sheet list opened on my 2nd monitor to list all those bc there are so many.
What about Titans? I can name them on the top of my head: Synthos, Wormgods, Pyro, HOIL, Rocket chest piece, Curiass, Peace Keeper, Dunemarchers, OEM, Feedback Fence. That's literally it. And the 3 pvp exotic can't even be used in pve lmfao, while Hunters have some overlaps ones like Liar, Lucky pants, Crytarachne's Facade if you have some unique playstyle in mind in pvp. E
Even Curiass could barely count bc a lot of encounters T-crash are useless, like the Witness fight. And if we are talking about exotics for buffing supers, how come you can straight up run a build with Nighthawk bc it's useful for both neutral game and buffing super (hs kills give you super energy), but you can't with Titan bc exotics like Curiass ONLY buffs the super, and does nothing when you don't have a super. HOW IS THAT FAIR??? Yes Pyro buffs consecration too, that's a good start, but then again you can't use Burning Maul in every encounter bc Bungie loves to design melee supers for Titan, but you can literally use Goldie on any encounter. Again, not fair.
I haven't even touch Warlocks yet, but pretty much the same case.
I wouldn't even give Ursa that much credit either. The only use for them I see is for King's Fall SPEED RUN during the Golgorath encounter, not a singular use outside of that for regular play bc Sentinel sucks. Pheonix Protocal has more use bc Well is just better at everything than every void Titan super.
I LOVE the new rocket chest piece (probably gonna get nerfed bc Bungie hates Titan having fun for some reason), because it's so unique AND useful. It's the only thing holding Prismatic Titan together for me, bc I can use decent abilities like consecration for neutral game, while also use thruster to dish out the rockets for good dmg (the only decent class ability for Titan, barricades are ass). Speaking of, I 100% agree on the class abilities. Why the fuck does Pheonix Dive heals you, Hunters can either INSTANT reload or INSTANT recharge a melee, while our Thruster or Barricades have 0 effects??? Honestly, giving the instant reload back to rally barricades like how it was in Forsaken, wouldn't even be that OP nowadays since we've power crept so much, why not?
Most melees are bad, and I hate that almost all TItan subclasses are just "Punching but with different colors" kind of builds. 100 agree on that. Void WOULD'VE BEEN so great if it's reworked/hugely buffed, because the fundamentals are there. We have controlled demolition for healing everyone, killing power, some abilities regen, and some defensive overshield. Bubble, Sentinel Shield, and Twilight axe are all great super as a concept. If they get some big buffs, it would amazing to play as Void Titan. Even Unbreakable is a cool concept, but it just isn't useful in practice bc it eats your grenade (should be changed imo) AND no synergy with everything else.
I’m glad you made this post because every time I try to bring this type of post up I get trolled.
You are 100% right about the state of Titans I realize this back in Beyond Light when Ager’s Scepter was first added but it had no synergy with Behemoth and made Warlocks and Hunters more tanky than anything a Titan can do. There’s lots of examples like this in the game such as Warlock Healing Rift giving overshield but all Titans get is a Barricade that helps reload, it took till Void 3.0 for Titans to get that and it requires an Aspect.
My point is that yeah I agree with you we need a rework from top to bottom, Subclasses, Supers, Abilities and especially Exotics. We need better synergy!
I hope that Bungie sees these post that have been popping up and I hope they address it because everything you said I’ve known for years as a day 1 Titan
Also last thing other exotics that suck or aren’t worth it…
Ice Fall Mantle - no reason it should make you slow and not able to jump
Dunemarches - seriously no jolt and or amplify? Or anything that synergizes
Ashen Wake - no scorch no ignite and requires roaring flames to be decent
Crest of Alpha Lupi - why does this even exist at this point? I wish the Witness had used Final Shape on this.
Path of Burning Steps - the original effect was never good and it still isn’t, like how often do you actually get frozen for this exotic to matter?
End of exotic rant
Path of Burning Steps was made to counter Stasis PVP meta
It was obvious that people would stop using it after Bungie nerfed Stasis, just a short slighted exotic
You forgot the worst offender - citans ramparts.
Bungie is afraid of making them half decent because it would trivialize half their game and show major flaws in their design.
It would feel as bad for me personally if Bungie hadn’t spent the last year nerfing the **** out of all Titan melee abilities only to ignore hunters melee and THEN giving them buffs so their melee’s are now the best options in the game with not even a close second. They have the best dps? Fine idc But stop nerfing me because I’m having a little bit of fun and deal with syntho+caliban+combination blowsx3 infinite uptime maybe?
i swear combination blow works like an aspect, it literely better than knockout and yet its actually juse a normal melee option. the closest thing titans have to a special melee would be thorwwing hammer and that only cus its also unlimted and grants cure on pickup but still everything else is really basic
As others have pointed out that doesn’t show how many used titans up till the last encounter then swapped. Which still isn’t great that one class than dps dominant that people would need to swap but I also mean used in general. Alot of complaints about Titan prismatic and I have my own but I don’t know if that’s representative of the majority of players but they’d have a better picture.
the thing about the final encounter of this latest raid is that, of course hunters are going to be the best for DPS, golden gun is meant to be the high damage, easy to miss, super. As long as you have a boss that doesn't move much and has a giant crit spot of course hunters are going to stand out.
The issue isn't that hunters are the best at boss dps, it's that titans bring nothing useful for boss dps. The best we have is barrier of bubble but they don't really fit in well either. And our best boss dps supers suck without using an exotic. Even worse, the only dps super that can even reasonably be used on the Witness fails to track correctly the majority of the time.
That's also just one specific issue with titans in relation to bosses. Outside of that our "identity" doesn't fit into endgame activities unless your playing solo.
I'm pretty sure they are waiting for GMs to drop before they say anything. I think Titan use will rise at that point because they do have a very good CC kit in their prismatic build. Then they can say "titan is fine in endgame" and do nothing for their raid viability.
I think they’ll do more to address it because while I do agree the final shape was an amazing dlc the honey moon phase will eventually end and since episodes seem a lot like season I don’t think they’ll do much to stop that so people are gonna start noticing the issues especially with sandbox even more so.
I've been a titan main the entire time I played D2. I picked it because I'm a tank main in just about every MMO and MMO-adjacent game I play. I like wearing big armor. I like being on the front lines, in the thick of combat. I like being a wall protecting my teammates. And while I do like punching things, I don't want it to be the class's entire identity. I remember reading the lore tab thing for Sentinel, and thinking it was the coolest thing.
>I'm shaking, hands on my knees, panting. Let the monsters come. Let them come forever. Let them climb the piled bodies of their dead. I don't care. That's the thing I do better than anyone. Not care. Let them come in their hundreds and every one will die at my feet. I don't care about their homing rockets, their exotic matter slugs, their blades from another dimension.
> I don't care because I cannot be moved. I am the wall against which the Darkness breaks.
> Malphur can turn his gun to fire and Shinobu can dance with lightning, but when the horrors run out of the dark, I am the one who does not move.
> I am a wall. And walls don't move. Because walls don't care.
This *still* fucking rules, man. I want to be this! The closest thing to this is on Strand with Banner of War/Into the Fray, but that just doesn't work for me. I don't like the constant pulsing and the noise it makes, and even with the DR from Woven Mail and the healing pulses, I feel like I still just die a lot of the time if I ever go out into the open in harder content. I don't know how the people who say it's braindead easy and you can do that and be unkillable do it.
Prismatic was such a disappointment. The starting setup they give you feels like the only thing close to synergistic that it has. Shackle grenade a group, and zap'em with a charged up thunderclap to kill them and heal yourself with Knockout (and you better have Point-Contact Cannon Brace), then throw a diamond lance at the next group, zap them, etc. This falls apart pretty quickly though. Often times you'll kill the next group before the diamond lance cooldown is up, unless you're purposefully playing slow to wait out the timer. Or you'll just take too much damage and die, even with the extra damage reduction it got. Sometimes there's just too many dudes, or sometimes you'll just take too much damage getting into position from enemies that didn't get frozen that the DR can't save you once you start charging.
The only thing we seem to get is like "Wow! 3 Consecrates!" but Frenzied Blade has such a long cooldown on Prismatic that it mostly feels like I'm just using normal Consecrate without any of Solar's fragments that make it good. Unbreakable drains too fast, and even when I block damage, it doesn't seem to do as much damage that just throwing a grenade would have done. Also flavor-wise, I feel like it should drain from your melee (or barricade, I guess) instead. Void's whole deal is shields. Shield bash, shield throw, sentinel shield super. Hell, even our new axe super has the shield for an axe head! I also think Ursa should recharge some of that energy on block too. Maybe that's giving too much to the exotic, but I want it (and Banner Shield) to be good.
Transcendence is also really underwhelming, like the constant roaming supers we get, this is yet another thing designed for add clear. And the grenade is just annoying to use, especially with physics and the amount of greebly floor textures. I know, I know, "skill issue." But are you telling me you never have it hit a weird part of the floor and bounce back towards you, or off in some other direction and be completely wasted? It doesn't happen all the time, but just enough to be really noticeable and frustrating. And if I had to guess, the bounce and delayed explosion is designed to give you time to charge up Thunderclap or run up and Consecrate, but I can do those *while* they're suspended, and much safer since I'll have less things shooting at me as I get into position!
The only upside I have to running Prismatic is being able to use Thruster on a non-Arc class, so I can abuse its lower cooldown to use the missiles from Hazardous Propulsion more. I even put Strategist on The Call to help with this. These two things have been the only things that I've been enjoying on the class since TFS dropped, and I live in fear of them being nerfed. None of the exotic class item combos have seemed interesting, outside of like, a HoIL/Star-Eaters combo. I got Abeyant/Khepri's and got excited since it's synergistic, but it's pathetic. It'll kill the weakest of red bars, but doesn't even kill a red bar acolyte with a moth shield in Overthrow, and it barely tickles anything above that.
Also, I am sick of things being ruined because of PvP balancing. I know they buffed the PvE DR for barricades to compensate for their lower HP, but it still *feels* like they get shredded faster. And we still have the longer cooldown on them too. Even moreso for Bastion, which really got fucked hard for PvP balance.
It's just all so frustrating, man. Prismatic Warlock has been so much fun, and I want to do cool things on my main too!
exactly this. with hunters taking the spotlight in terms of just about everything and prismatic having barely any flexibility (imo) i just feel kinda lost as a titan main :p
Firstly, I agree with just about everything you said. I maimed Titan from TTK up until TFS. I dropped it, because, as you put so eloquently, it sucks. Moved to the other two classes, classes which I hate. But what can you do? I don’t want to get kicked from raid groups because the class I want to play is useless.
In every role-based game I’ve ever played, I’ve gravitated towards tanks. Everything from D&D to damn Overwatch. And this game just… doesn’t have that. We started to with Banner of War, but then that got nerfed, then got outdone by hunters, who now have a melee build far more broken than Banner ever was. It just… I don’t know. It’s really nice and cathartic to see someone else put my abstract thoughts into words so well. Thank you. Praying that this sentiment somehow finds its way to Bungie.
>In every role-based game I’ve ever played, I’ve gravitated towards tanks. Everything from D&D to damn Overwatch. And this game just… doesn’t have that.
I play Paladin in D&D because one turn I can be laughing off almost as much damage as the Barbarian and the next I can evaporate some demon, devil, or undead while burning all my smite slots, all the while making my team more resilient with my Aura of Protection.
The closest I've felt to that fantasy in Destiny was when I gave my whole fireteam Woven Mail with a Tangle and then kept them healed with Banner of War.
Literally the only build I've seen for prismatic titan is "spam consecration", and while fun for a bit, it's a novelty that gets so boring. I don't want to just spam a single attack in every encounter forever, I should be able to do wacky wild shit like warlocks having 4 turrets and 1 shotting bosses with Nova Bomb.
Every time they give titans something powerful, they immediately whittle away at it until it's a fragment of what it was and forgotten about. You can't even t-crash some bosses anymore. And they never have us the promised tracking on bonk hammer.
I've gone back to warlock. Haven't mained warlock since Forsaken. I forgot how much fun it is and how powerful I feel. I don't feel powerful on titan.
The prismatic thing gets me the most. I was so hype for prismatic because FINALLY playing titan would be fun and powerful and I'd be able to keep up with rhe rest of the classes without spending weeks perfecting a build. But nope. Every fragment is eh for what the titan does, consecration is the only good dps option, t crash is ass (it won't even take out a blistering ogre in the pale heart or even take it below half health in my experience), punching everything is so incredibly risky, and the only good dps we have (cons.) Is a melee thing that end up fucking you over more than anything else. I remember making a warlock last season, spending about 3 minutes to throw together some shoddy build, and I rid better than my titan (who was leveled up, had the build crafting, better weapons, etc.) And it just started to kill any love I have for titan
I've read the whole thing and I most definitely agree, insofar as Titan fantasy we have a lot to go off of. Titans are leaders, strategists, builders, architects, warriors, soldiers, artists and sometimes philosophers. Fact of the matter is there is a lot that can be drawn from but for some reason they won't. I feel the Titan has been flanderized to such a ridiculous degree I can't take anyone seriously that buys into the memes: crayon eaters, fist on the cover, punching class etc. I chose Titan way back in the beginning of D1 because I wanted to be a magic wielding super soldier, master of arms and a leader that guides his fellow guardians into battle with explosions, kickass and the *occasional* punch.
Do I like to punch? Yes I do, but there is *far* more to the Titan than the freaking punch as fun as it is. I want Titan to be more closer to the old school lore of what they are. Not convinced? Let me ask you one question: Would you call Shaxx a crayon eater to his face? He'd most likely backhand your Guardian's head off like he did to Felwinter during his Warlord days. I doubt you'd say that to Saladin, Zavala or especially Wei-Ning: she'd Thunderclap you into next millenium! All I'm trying to say is bring Titan back to our roots fantasy wise and tweak the class to lean into that.
It was really disheartening when the devs were talking so passionately about Hunter and Warlock identities and new content and then Yanes addressed the complaints about Strand being punch but green this time by essentially saying that Titans are one dimensional with the "guy with the fist on the cover" shit. That was kind of the moment I started feeling like they have no one passionate or caring about Titan at Bungie who works on the abilities team. It just sucks that the majority of Titan feels so one dimensional and feels like I'm sandbagging my team by not playing Hunter or Warlock.
Prismatic actually got me to play some titan, even if it is just gimmicky.
Three consecrations and a neat void shield thing that’s bugged and always does max damage? Sign me up.
The issue I’ve noticed with prismatic is that while you’d assume there a a lot of buildcrafting potential, the classes (or at least hunters) are coerced into on build.
3 of hunter’s aspects revolve around the class ability. Winter’s shroud for slow/freeze, threaded spectre for debuff/decoy, and ascension for haha funny.
3 of 5 aspects revolve around the class ability, with the remaining 2 being: invis and weaken, gunpowder gamble.
There isn’t a lot of potential for a variety of builds when the aspects are so restrictive. Not much else you can do but punch, since combination blow is the only consistent way to get that class ability back.
Which goes to say, why do hunters get the punchy class? Why do hunters get to freeze all nearby targets after 2 s
Dodges, doubling melee damage? Plus stylish, liars, etc, for hundreds of thousands of damage in a single punch?
Hunters even got grapple, meaning they have access to a second punch ability, that can be used infinitely (via grapple points).
And hunter healing with combo blow/liars isn’t just limited to those two sources. If you didn’t know, the recuperation legs armor mod heals you pretty massively per orb you pick up. If you also didn’t know, having three heavy handed/firepower arms mods will completely remove the orb generation cooldown of these methods.
If you also didn’t know, while combination blow is active, for heavy handed’s purposes, unpowered melee’s will be considered powered melees. Meaning every single powered and unpowered melee will spawn an orb to heal you, you’ll potentially get liars healing and potentially get combination blow healing.
You also can run the fragment that makes melee final blows start health regen, but that’s available to all classes.
Prismatic titan has access to… the fragment.
I don’t even remember if they have access to banner of war or not. I think so? But without the numerous damage buffs hunters get, and with synthoceps being available on all exotic class items, not even synthoceps gives titans an edge in melee anymore.
All identity has been stripped away from titan with prismatic, and replaced with a new identity: the gimmick class.
Consecration. The new void aspect. Ward of dawn. Sentinel shield. Twilight arsenal. Drengr’s lash. Diamond lance. I’d go on, but I don’t play much titan, so I don’t know much about what’s available to them.
Titan has become the “new fun toy” class. You get to spawn relics for people to use, you get to use a shield that absorbs and reflects damage, you get to use consecration, all at the same time! But, while it’s fun for a bit, you realise it isn’t exactly viable. You can’t take twilight arsenal into a raid, the damage it does doesn’t justify the time. So pyrogale? Well, no more fun super for you.
Wanna use the shield aspect? Gotta get real close. And guess what? It’s bugged, and always does max damage, so there’s currently so motivation to actually reflect damage, and seems just like another form of damage. Not usable on many bosses due to short range, and AoE of some attacks means you can’t even protect your team with it.
Consecration? Fun the first 50 times, but then it just becomes routine. It’s an add clear machine, and transcendence means you get to soak it to your heart’s content, but that just means the prismatic titan is just consecration.
Replace prismatic titan with the consecration aspect. Nothing else. Functionally won’t be much different.
Prismatic is incredibly fun, and strong on hunter especially, but with a little more time having passed, the options for builds are significantly more limited than they first appeared. As I mentioned before, prismatic hunter has an incredibly strong punch build. But what else?
I suppose time will tell.
I heavily disagree with some of the stuff you talk about but upvoting anyway cuz such a lengthy discussion with stuff I disagree with is better than the billionth brainless "Titan sucks look at these usage stats" or "Why is Hunter better at melee than Titans" post.
And that’s okay! I understand not everyone is going to agree with what I have to say. I play Hunter and Warlock (more so Hunter) frequently and they do have weaknesses of their own. I care more about active discussion than just telling Bungie to “buff titans and everything will be alright”.
And don't get me wrong I definitely agree with some of your broader points especially, like that there's more foundational issues with the identity they've been leaning into.
I always considered Titans the lockdown class. They are meant to hold a point and hold it well, or take a point and hold it well. Their entire identity is “this man does not move and you can’t make him”.
Fortunately, the game has long since evolved from simple plate mechanics and brainless ad clear. Warlocks are the king of sieging a position, Hunters not ever needing a position to begin with. But when it comes time to actually hold a point, I would trust a Titan over a pre-nerf Well.
However, holding a point does not always translate to damage output. And that’s okay because you ideally have 2-5 other people who can do that. Your job is set up the barricade as necessary and be an immovable backbone to the team. I love to rag on Titans myself, saying that Heir Apparent can do your job but better. But that’s not entirely true. The only thing better than a guy rocking Heir Apparent and being an unkillable behemoth is a Titan rocking Heir Apparent.
Embrace the tanky construct identity. Punching things is only a small part of that identity.
I will say, I utilized Ursa Titan in the Witness Fight of Salvation’s Edge because we kept getting killed by the Resonance Beams, and the moment I swapped to that, the team cleared it. I was still contributing damage when the Super ran out (damage phase is decently long), and it kept us all alive to actually have rez’s when we went to final stand, and one of the guys said from then on he’s telling Titans to run Ursa for that fight
I've been playing Prismatic Titan a lot.
Not because I like it, but because I am trying to find a way to make it work in a way that I like.
I can't find it. Nothing feels great. Everything, so far, feels sub par and survivability is whack. Knockout needs huge buffs.
So yeah, it may look like people are playing Prismatic Titan a lot. It's most likely because we are just trying to figure out a way to make it work effectively. I am at the point where I am going to stop until it is buffed.
P.S. It also doesn't help that farming the class item is a slog and it really feels like some perks are weighted differently. Maybe RNGesus just hates me. I am so sick of getting Orphidian and Verity.
I'd rather just have a complete buff set along everything really, the unbreakable needs a buff, tcrash needs a buff, a ton of stuff needs buffing not reworks.
I just want to point out, that in this insane wall of text, you started a paragraph with “Finally…” as if you were finishing up this book of yours, and then went on to write 4 more paragraphs. :-|
"TL;DR: Go Play Hunter" no. If that's your answer then clearly there is something about Titan that needs addressing.
It's not even so much about buffing them so much as they need to stop nerfing things they need to be able to do the thing they're supposed to do. I.e Tanking.
Rework only Titans?
In year 11 of Destiny's existence??
After the light/dark saga has concluded???
Right after they just finished introducing a new subclass and new abilities????
Of course I agree, but this is like saying what they need to do is invent a time machine and go back in time to correct their mistakes before they exist! I just don't see it happenin, and I'm sure many others don't see that as a viable option either.
The only thing I can see them doing is buffing Titans and nerfing some Titan-like capabilities of the other classes.
> The only thing I can see them doing is buffing Titans and nerfing some Titan-like capabilities of the other classes
This would just perpetuate the issues.
Tbf the hunter prismatic grapple melee setup is absolutely getting nerfed ASAP, either stylish is getting it's melee bonus removed or they'll fix the tether interaction.
Bungie honestly has no idea what they're doing when it comes to class identities
Hunter and warlock can be more melee and tanky than titan and titan and warlock can be more mobile than hunter, that second one really bugs me
It do be weird. Why does titan, the punchie tanky class get the storm grenade on steroids with tracking, while warlock, the literal stormcaller subclass gets the normal base level storm grenade?
Not to take anything from titans, they def deserve more, but this goes back to the core commentary - class identity design.
Reminder that clear stats represent only the final encounter, hard dps check when celestial still hunt is a thing is gonna mean more hunters. Especially when the boss is designed so most offensive supers other than golden gun do absolutely nothing.
I gave up reading the book half way through, but I’m either happy for you or sorry that happened
In all seriousness though, it’s crazy to expect a complete rework to an entire class. They gonna just comepletely remake all your aspects, supers, and exotics. It’s just not gonna happen
I’ve been using loreleys since beyond light even after the nerf it’s pretty good for survival especially now with prismatic. Guy is right tho most titan exotics just plain suck.
Imma still rock my titan, i have fun with that class since d1/day one and even if its not the end all be all or as nutty as the other two, im having fun with it still. Nothing against those that want to switch either. but for me Titan till death lol
Hard disagree with the Thundercrash part.
220k is with that high risk, highest cooldown and beeing the weakest super is unbalanced as hell.
It WILL be a huge difference making it 100% stronger (440k is solid meta like needlestorm) and rework cuirass to make something that has nothing to do with making Thundercrash stronger.
Its a shame we literally cant use an exotic just because Thundercrash is so bad, WE need an exotic just to make it not bad. Its a wasted of a complete build.
I think one big design issue with Titan is how about two thirds of the exotics and the majority of the exotics do absolutely nothing If you're not getting kills, and usually those are supposed to be melee kills. Hazardous is Titan finally getting something close to a neutral exotic which has pretty much just been HOIL
I think with the success of banner of war Bungie should start looking into more aura based abilities for titan, I strongly agree that banner NEEDS something other than "I am wall here me- oh dammit it's gone" Titans class ability is fundamentally the WEAKEST as you've said because it only does one thing.... Place a wall.
Titans just need less roaming supers, I would've rather had the 3 axes from Twilight cause big explosions in exchange for being able to roam with them. We need more heavy burst supers.
More buff banner abilities, we need abilities that are like the Soldier from TF2 where we can buff our allies while carrying the flag into battle. That would be a great addition to our class. If the other classes can buff themselves but with little to no mobility, make Titans have a buff and be mobile!
Buff-Banners as barricade replacement feels like the way to go to give Titan some Team-Utility that might actualy matter. Like, Rally-Barricade can be neat but it's super clumsy to use with barely any range to it. Having instead a Banner-like ability that boosts Reload-Speed, Flinch-Reduction and grants a healthy amount of DMG resist, that also follows the titan around, seems a much better deal.
I think Banner of War type effects should be a lot more common on Titan. Give Void a version of it that gives overshield (after they buff overshield), solar one that gives radiant, stasis gives frost armor, idk what arc should do but you get the point.
I feel like an arc aura improving reload speed and zapping enemies in the area or giving joltshot could be cool - wouldn't break anything by itself, but could be nice in team scenarios
Yeah, they could slap something like this onto existing aspects and titan would be a lot more interesting. Other stuff needs to happen too but auras being a titan thing would be dope
Make me a space paladin with an AK 47 pls
This literally
Man I miss zhalo
I think they should change the heal from Controlled Demolition to an Overshield, as well as making Overshield just stronger in PvE. It would play much nicer with Offensive Bulwark to provide a strong grenade and sustain engine for the class, while giving more protection to your allies.
Or the Healing that exceeds your normal shields gets converted into an Void OS
Yeah, it should function like the way stasis shards with Rime used to work. Health until you're maxed and then overshield. That one change alone helps it synergize a lot more with Controlled Demotion and Unbreakable.
Let solar titan slam down a sun forge or something, that pulses out the old tempered metal buff + healing from it.
Definitely. Like paladin auras. Boom, there’s the fantasy.
Tesla tower? Allies extend the area via chaining.
Wouldn't that be a sick class ability. Like a mobile well that hands out DR Arc chains Void links Solar rays Stasis field Strand tethers
I would personally propose looking at some stuff from Paladins, and Barbarians from Dungeons and Dragons as some inspiration for Titans. Paladins get an “aura” as a class feature that benefits the paladin and any other allied character within a set distance. Then each subclass gets their own unique “aura” on top of that. These auras are all constant and usually are some kind of buff to allies and self (many are damage or effect resistance) and there is at least one that is a debuff to enemies. Every Titan getting a constant aura or even a class ability activated aura would make so much sense. Even minor effects are super beneficial if they were constant or just long durations. Paladins also get Smite, where they can use a “spell slot” to add burst damage to any weapon attack, could be also an addition to the Titan kit. Maybe a “hold melee to charge” type thing that then adds additional damage for a short period of time to any weapons. There are even a few different kinds of “smites” that have additional effects. The different melees could maybe add a debuff to shots fired on enemies hit. As for Barbarian influence, Barbarians get Rage. Rage depending on subclass has different effects, but all Rage reduces the damage you take and can increase the damage you do. Some types of Rage have area of effects, but the main idea I see since there is such a focus on titans getting up close with their current kit is to let a Titan Rage. More damage they take the more damage they can give. Make them immune or resistant to knock back effects for a duration of time while “raging”. I pretty often bounce between Titan and Warlock but Titan probably will always be my class. I enjoy the Titan playstyle to an extent because it just fits how I like to play the game. I love being up close and just smacking the shit out of red bars. It isn’t optimal, I’ve not raided once in D2, I’ve never done grandmasters and I suck in PVP. But I would love to have more of the Space Knight Tank vibes going. I used to flip around between Tank and Healer back in my WOW days because it’s what I enjoyed, I didn’t care about big numbers so much but I loved knowing that I was assisting the group in a significant way. I want that feeling for Titans.
Immune to knockback effects HELLOOOOOO stomp mechanics! You're done! Would be cool but they love their boss stomps too much I think. Would love it though.
What irks me the most, is that Bungo has done PVP only changes before. They could pretty much fix all of our classes while keeping PVP shit leashed.
Some of the PvE only changes in the Witch Queen were nice. I thought that was the beginning of a new era. Wish it was.
“Dual sandbox” was such a marketing point for Witch Queen era D2 and then Bungie barely did anything with it. Like how much of a fucking mess of spaghetti code is D2 if changing values in a db somewhere is somehow a heavy lift?
Tbh what's started to become clear to me over the last year or two (as a non-titan, I'm sure this has been obvious to others for ages) is that the power fantasy Bungie tries to push with titans is just incompatible with so much of the game's design. You can't have a melee-focused class in a game where 99% of bosses have some sort of repel/insta-kill attack that they will immediately use the second someone gets within 5 feet of them. It's frankly a fundamental failure of design. And I think we're too far along for there to be a good solution, or at least a quick and easy one.
We shouldn't be melee focused. We're soldiers, generals and strategists. Professionals. The class should be a master at arms or fireteam support class. Banner is a good reference point and could honestly be something to rework everything around. We're now Flag Bearers and capable of buffing the team. Banner of War as the only universal Aspect in the game would be super dope. Effect changes based on your class and provides some sort of DR against on your class element. Arc boosts team movement speed or damage, Solar provides Radiant buffs or healing, etc. And I'll never not say it, but Ward should always have an aggro mechanic.
It might be cool if they split all the support functions across all 3 classes. Titans are buffers, Hunters debuffers, and Warlocks healers. Theoretically, the ideal fire team would be 2 of each class, one primarily offensive and the other primarily support. But yeah, Titans got power crept on hard. As the game evolved and the other 2 grew in power, the niche that Titans provided in a much more simple and straightforward sandbox disappeared. As much as I love spawning 2 buddies and getting Devour going with a sword on a horde, it really feels like this should be a Titan's role.
We have Exotics like Actium War Rig which give really cool&fun Niche Buffs. We've got Bubble, we've got Shield, We've got the Void Axes. Let us spread this shit to our Team, and if there are no Teammates have the Buffs we get from them be stronger. I don't care if it makes Titans more "viable" in the META or not as long as it's fun and doesn't feel out of place. An Exotic that makes it so when we use our Class Ability it gives us&our Allies a really strong Kinetic/Strand/Stasis Overshield that will screw with enemies that get too close to it would be neat.
Imagine if actium allowed rally barricade and banner shield to spread its buff to teammates behind it. Could open up some really fun dps strategies.
The problem is Bubble damage is worse than having a damaging super, the shield is basically made of paper, and nobody wants to pick up the void axes you just three at the feet of the enemy - especially since their rockets probably do more damage anyways.
Played since just before VoG was released in D1. This is why I stopped playing back in WQ when they released the trailer for Lightfall and the introduction of Strand. It was that moment of, “It’s just a green Fist of Havoc.” that was the final nail in the coffin that Bungie just doesn’t get it and never will. We don’t want *another* melee roaming super. We want damage supers. (Cue multiple nerfs to Thundercrash & Cuirass) And, to put salt in the wound, any time Titan has a good punching build, it gets nerfed to hell. It’s basically: “You can only punch.” “Okay, I’m going to do it this way then. Since it’s fun and it does a lot of damage.” “No, not like that.” The joke has always been that no one at Bungie, or just the sandbox team, plays Titan at a high level. It was obvious back then and it looks like it hasn’t changed, nearly 2 years later. Titan design has been lazy and uninspired for multiple expansions. This *should* be a wake up call to Bungie, but they’ll ignore it. Like always.
You hit the nail on the head with “no, not like that” - every workaround or very specific build that works is quickly nerfed or the perk of that build’s exotic is reworked/“reworded” to change how it fundamentally works, more often than not because “this element isn’t functioning as we intended”
yep the #1 titan problem doesnt need a giant wall of text saying "X class does MUH MELEE FANTASY better!!!!" its that titan has close to 0 options for the high end PvE content cus it gets pushed into melee all the time and when melee is good in that content, we get Release Banner of War that tears the game appart everywhete titan needs like half of its ussules "melee parts" that nobody is using anyway all replaced with ranged options + 2-3 good ranged dmg supers, going even more into "melee fantasy" doesnt help at all cus "melee fantasy" is always either ussules or broken with no inbettwen
Remember on Void Titan when you could choose to use the roaming super or the bubble? Long gone now but I appreciated choices like that when we had them. Wouldn't hurt to have alternative supers like that for different situations again.
This is the kinda thing that makes me want a Destiny 3. Its not fixable in Destiny 2 without ripping apart and remaking the game, which would be 10x easier and worthwhile to do within a new game
I will also say that the class item for titan is complete garbage. Like how the hell is Crest of Alpha lupi a freaking perk and horrorfrostz. Like I don't understand how insurmountable skullfront perk to get health on melee kills wasn't even considered
Even if you accept alpha lupi being on the class item why doesn't it work with thruster?! Its not just a weird choice its straight up lazy. Hunter's "spirit of crytarachine" was made to give woven mail on just using ANY grenade, would it really be so OP if alpha lupi gave a fart of healing on thruster use?
What's funny is that you get essentially the same effect on Thruster if you use Powerful Attraction and Recuperation. This season on Prismatic I'm getting OS, Amplified, and Radiant all on Thruster use near orbs. Spirit of the Lupi is an actually dead class item roll.
I have been saying this for years. The damage isn’t the problem with Titan. It’s the fact that most builds feel like it’s missing a crucial piece no matter what. Look at void Titan as an example. It needs all 3-4 aspects and 5-6 fragments in order to feel like a full class but has to only pick only 2 and 4 fragments. Offensive bullwark is great but needs a reliable overshield. Disregarding the fact OS’s feel like wet tissue paper in the current sandbox, you could just use the bastion aspect to get you the benefits from OB. However, if you do that you are then missing controlled demolition which feels mandatory on void titan to stay alive (again given OS’s are almost impossible to keep up past 2 seconds). So either you are struggling to generate overshields to make OB usable or you are handicapped by not having CD (sorry for all the acronyms). I could list the same issues with all other non strand subclasses. But hey let’s all just play strand then despite it getting nerfed every patch… Lastly, the issue sub classes are facing are also infecting Titan exotics. Synthos/wormgod are the only exotics that feels…whole. Doomfang and ursas should honestly be combined into one. I’m not even going to start on helm of s14 which should honestly be removed and weapons of light be put back into bubble (one of the dumbest things bungie did in the latest patch). 95% of all other titan exotics outside the brand new ones are just so bad.
The easiest fix for void titan is to add shield-gating with overshields, then revert Bastion to it's release state > Fuck PvP I don't care if that breaks something that was always broken
That new hunter chest that gives resist for jolting is the kind of tanky type of asset Titans could definitely use. The titan exotics could be reworked to be more defensive and team defensive, similar to renewal grasps. They keep giving tank options to hunter for some reason instead of titans
What’s that chest? I’m just now getting back into the game
https://www.light.gg/db/items/1627691271/
The fact that Hunters thread-clone can pull aggro from enemies, but banner shield and unbreakable don’t is criminal. Let me be a tank.
Anything that requires enemies to you shoot at you Banner, Unbreakable, Arc Staff deflecting, seems to just make the enemies stop shooting a lot of the time and it's so frustrating.
I would even accept an incredibly strong middle game. Just let me get friggin hoil back in all its glory. We had one thing.
Trade me the rocket one for it
you're god damn insane if you think that thing is worth giving away
The fact that the fully charged volley does as much damage as a baseline Thundercrash is fucking hilarious.
Wait what
It's true. Prismatic uses Tcrash for mobility or proccing amplified only. Also coupled with the fact you can have the rocket salvo and class ability back in literal seconds....
Yeah the rocket one is unique thing and we hold on to that with our crayola covered hands. Its subclass agnostic. Elemental type agnostic. It's pretty much one useful thing you could use on any subclass and it'd still provide good buff. (hot damn I'd love no backup plan if it had different keyword buff for each element. It's stupid it doesn't because it even has unique color for each elemental type)
Yeah, No Backup Plans needs a second rework to factor the other elements in
The main thing I'm annoyed at is that nbp already has unique visuals for each subclass, yet they only let us use it with void super
Chest piece is too much fun. Should even buff Ergo Sword wolf pack rounds which I believe it does. Works well with facet of command, which will probably get nerfed in some way.
You can pry that exotic from my cold dead hands.
In Destiny 3 they will make it part of warlocks class identity and a dev will say titans will never have that again.
Titans were flying since D1 with death from above and then they added twilight garrison. Explain to me Bungo how Warlocks are the flyboys aside from that you decided so? I will never forgive them for not bringing my ugly ass chest back in some way.
D1 Sunsinger had the Wings of Sacred Dawn as a subclass option, it was outclassed by another option in that column though
That is true and shit now that I think about it Titans got that perk as a helmet. Empyrean Bellicose I think it was called. It was shiny silver.
Seriously lol, there’s no way that hunter chest piece is worth rocking over other exotics.
You are crazy if you think this chest is remotely good. The hunter exotic gives you bomblets on the 2 most useless aspect of arc hunter, they do pitifully dmg. Every jolt you inflict you get a stacking resist buff, up to x4, witch is 45% at max stacks with a 10s duration. Basically you have woven mail at max stacks, but you only get a stack if the jolt you inflict is done on an enemy that is at around 10-15m from you (personal testing). Basically you are using an exotic slot for kind of constant woven mail since the rest of this exotic is trash. Cytarachne on strand has arguably better uptime than gifted conviction and is widely considered a bad exotic in pve. On the other hand titan rocket chest (when the bug gets fixed of the 35% dmg being overridden by other empowering buffs like radiant) gives a 35% dmg buff on demand and basically a free 100k dmg on class ability cast witch is potent, this 35% buff is empowering most of the meta weapons too. All in all both are not great but I would still give it to the titan chest, 45% resist in this sandbox is nothing crazy, there are a lot of ways to get dmg resist via your subclass now, and the titan chest at least does something unique that is not completely gimmicky.
Not to mention if your on Titan and that down bad for resistance Stronghold already hands out 50% DR for free in addition to the naturally high sword resist. All that and we haven't gotten to the Restoration x2 yet. Plus we have a special weapon sword now so you can another non-sword heavy if you prefer. Sorry but I'm not giving up the very fun rocket body that absolutely cooks for a jolting/DR body. If I really want to jolt I got contact brace for that.
Hunter main here. I accept. In a heartbeat.
The insane thing is that they had years, and there are TONS of things you can do to make the subclasses have a melee identity but different. Dark Knight? Paladin? Berserker? A fighter? Master of arms? A monk? A wrestler? A gladiator? A samurai? A spearman? So many, yet they just seem very similar. Like literally all they had to do was go to tvtropes... https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/FantasyCharacterClasses
It blows my mind that we got Stasis and Strand and no one at Bungie thought of "dark knight" on the fucking class that has had knight themes in the lore they wrote since D1. How the fuck did they make Warlock an Ice Wizard and not take the next logical step? A lot of people complain about Titan's melee focus, but I've always loved it. The problem is the melee is so uninventive. Nothing but punch, punch, more punch, comically yeeting a hammer, and the shield throw. They even mostly use similar animations outside of Frenzied Blade. As your link proved, even within the bounds of "melee focused tank" there are tons of permutations that are all super distinct, visually iconic, and possibly interesting to design around in a shooter. And they just keep giving us punches that arent even better than combination blow lmao. Diamond Lance and Twilight Arsenal are like, the only times in a decade they seem to have realized that there's more to their stated class fantasy than decking someone in the face.
I don't think I'd play anything else if behemoth titan was themed more like frost death knights from WoW. I'd do just about anything for that. Or strand could have been like unholy dk's. We already have poisons, moths, and "pets."
I always thought Behemoth Titan should have gotten a big two handed Axe. Get some death metal ice Viking vibes going. But the problem I see with my idea of what a cool Behemoth Titan would be ends up just with a similar aesthetic as Burning Maul and throwing hammers… just ice themed. Really wish Sunbreakers were more sword focused than hammers. Have a great sword variation of Warlock’s dawnblade. I guess a sword could work with Behemoth too. Pierce the ground and freeze everything around you. Do wave/caster frame style slashes that also freeze/slow. Icefall mantle should just be inherit to the stasis subclass honestly, the slowness would suck but making the stasis subclass ability just to coat yourself in ice armor for a strong overshield is cool.
Titan has been flanderized worse than characters in decade long TV shows. It's sad tbh. Even in pantheon, I ran with my clan and the guy doing fireteam finder posts for a 5th and 6th really preferred to not have titans on the team...and I don't blame him. Well had not been nerfed yet, and celestial nighthawk was pumping insane damage numbers due to the then recent buff and the artifact. Come Final Shape, we have a final boss that favors crits (which NO TITAN SUPER FAVORS) and the release of Still Hunt which has synergy with celestial nighthawk to pump absolutely absurd damage numbers with insanely good ammo economy. No team with any serious ambitions of getting day one clears or world's first was going to run titans, when you can spam what is essentially a 10% nerfed celestial goldie every 10 seconds on a boss that has an insanely easy crit spot to hit.
At this point, if titans don’t have star eaters they’re throwing. After having two titans on witness encounter, it’s very sad how bad they pull numbers. At least warlock can skate by with the crazy support they have. Toss healing nade to make a turret to give some breathing room, some bleak watchers, cenotaph for more dps. Fuck it, go child of the gods and apply a 15% debuff with a solid vortex super. Titans are just everywhere, hunters are doing better melee performance.
The only thing titans are good at is personal survival and preventing a team wipe, which doesn’t even matter in endgame where revive tokens make that irrelevant.
I really don't mind being melee focused, i mean i do, but only because melee is basicakly dead in endgame without niche builds, I care that it's ONLY punching, or at best slashing or throwing. There's so man different melee weapons we could have gotten, but we're stuck sticking rainbow puke on our fists and punching.
Based on the way Bungie has been dividing out pop culture, Fighter, Monk, Samurai and Spearman would go to Hunter. Dark Knight and Paladin would go to Warlock and we would get Wrestler and Gladiator... Which is still basically just punching...
Monk has already gone to Hunter with ~~Poledancer~~ Arcstrider.
the closest we've gotten in the last six years was Twilight Arsenal
But Twilight Arsenal is a buggy mess. It's fantastic when it works and it was the super Titans sorely needed but good god is it inconsistent.
***Alright, first Axe is on the boss... and the other two just hit the one thrall tickling my toes. Great.***
But uh, light blue and green punching!!
I know HOIL was broken but it’s probably the most fun I’ve ever had playing this game. Arc titan was actually good and strong and fast paced yet had good survivability with heal thyself. Everything it had from seraph has been nerfed or gutted by now so there’s that I guess
I miss void titan with HOIL so fucking much. I still try to play void titan with vexcalibur and just feel so neutered.
Fwiw, HOIL on prismatic is a noticable upgrade for the the prismatic grenade if also paired with shield throw I know, I know, shield throw's hit reg is a rough one, but with glacier grenade as well, it hits decently hard. Might just be my play style but too, but still worth a try at least
…it retrospect with all the prismatic shit on hunter and warlock HOIL is fucking tame compared to them….
I remember loving the Void Overshield buff at the Seraph as well. Then it was reverted or something on Lightfall where it became tissue paper again. I don't know what happened, but it felt like that buff never happened.
I honestly did not mind the banner of war nerf at all cuz it was objectively broken, the thing that pisses me off is how they went and just allowed a different class to outdo it immediately lol. What the fuck was the point in nerfing the Titan then..?
One of the funniest instances of this was old renewal grasps getting destroyed and then literally the next season they added solar 3.0 with pre nerf restoration, reworked loreley, and added 40% DR to resilience. Like come on man, do the people balancing stuff and the people developing stuff not talk to eachother?
Renewal Grasps were nerfed solely because of PvP. Granted, in span of 6 weeks from that nerf, PvP still got utterly broken because of Classy Restoration, and it's infinite uptime on Hunters. But I guess it's the thoughts and commitment to "keeping PvP healthy" that counts, not actual reality, right?
Im a titan main, but i LOVE renewal grasps... Its what i used in my attempt to beat VoD day 1/2 but poor teammate combos lead that to fail... and was genuinely so salty it got nerfed bc of pvp but im glad its back (now maybe... rebuff lorely? Pwease lol)
That's just typical Bungie design "logic." Like coming into D2 thinking that Self-Res was broken, only to then create well of radiance.
Let's be honest here. Well was fucking busted, but Fireborn punched a hole in the fundamental fabric of the game. Nothing has ever been, or will ever be, broken in the way that Fireborn was broken.
Fireborn was easily solved for in encounters by having the wipe mechanics drain your super before killing you. Well of Radiance has forced all encounters to be designed around it since Forsaken, six years ago.
Unfortunately the biggest design fumble the game has had, it’s a shame it took them 10 years to realise they could have just removed self res and kept the super.
So much this. I think the game is healthier with balance between classes and within a class. Banner nerf was needed. Then they came and threw the idea of balance out the window in TFS.
I’m just sad about the shared nerf for behemoth. Crazy harsh it seems. I like behemoth in pvp bc it feels like a high skill ceiling. Manstrual and Nicho both play it so well that it inspired me. I’m not a PvP guy at all but as Cammycakes says behemoth “scratches that itch” for me.
I feel the shard nerf isn't even the worst of it. The chains rework and introduction of frost armor killed behemoth for me. While I've heard great things from the other stasis classes and I'm happy for them; As a Behemoth main in practically every activity this game offers -- PvP, GMs, Onslaught, etc. -- it's a shell of its former self. While it was never meta, the potential from the kit felt limitless. The power fantasy of encasing entire rooms in crystals to shield allies or neutralize threats at will via shatter was exhilarating. Not to mention the movement capabilities with glacier nade and shiverstrike allowed me to dive into combat and be the wall that refused to fall. For titans anyway, frost armor is outright a worse version of chains in every regard. Frost armor has 10% less damage reduction at MAX stacks AND with whisper of rime. What once was instant, indefinite DR from most of your abilities now requires one or two fragments AND an aspect slot to be remotely viable. Otherwise, hopefully you have external forms of healing in your arsenal. The rest of the changes regarding, diamond lances, shatter damage, and whisper of torment are very much appreciated, but what I would give to play pre-Final Shape Behemoth again...
I honestly wish Frost armor didn’t stack as high but had slightly higher DR. 3 stacks base, 5 with Rime, 10% per stack. It’s easier to visualize and means it’d take less to get to max. I so wish that wasn’t an aspect and instead just a fragment though, I’d love to rock Cryoclasm on Titan and actually get DR on Warlock with Osti turrets.
Honestly they just should give us a fragment that’s just “stasis shards give frost armor stacks” Then, to ensure it doesn’t completely make the aspects obsolete (tho they still let you make shards really easy without needing a fragment), they can give each class some unique interaction with shards. Titans maybe get double frost armor stacks per shard pick up and/or get a bonus to shatter damage for a short time after picking up shard or just while they have frost armor Hunters could bonuses to stasis damage for like very short time after picking up a shard, or have all their abilities cause more slow stacks while they have frost armor Warlocks could have their abilities boosted while they have frost armor, their melee shoots out an extra projectile or two in a small spread, their super lasts longer, and their rifts are larger or more powerful.
It was uncalled for. It's survivability was improved for the first 5 seconds, but once you're on cooldown, you drop dead.
It’s actually shocking how much the supposed rework just killed the class further :( Not to mention it was my main in pvp but I kinda hate it now since they changed cryoclasm back to its old unchainable form that feels like garbage to use. Not to mention it’s currently bugged and just doesn’t work half the time.
In PVP behemoth def got hit pretty hard. Cryoclasm isn't even turned on during super and howl of the storm is bugged. In PVE behemoth still cooks for end game GMs / Dungeons and stronghold lament is one of the best add clear builds in the game. And lanceap with wicked implement is a CC machine. Crazy how behemoth makes up 0.5% in trials yet Hunters are nearly 50% of the population and barely get touched. Yet a triple stack of behemoth is the problem but 50% of a game mode is made up by 1 single class.
As a diehard hunter main, I agree with everything you've said here. I didn't even make a titan for a really long time, because nothing about titan really appealed to me, and I felt (and still do) that honestly a lot of what titans do, hunters can do "better." We have multiple great melee/punch builds, high damage supers/dps rotations in general, and some solid support builds in renewal grasps, omnioculous, hell even mothkeepers. What I would love to see for titan is more things like banner of war that benefit a titan \*and their team\* for doing well. I'd love to see a void titan that can give their teammates overshields and volatile rounds (in a way other than forcing the team to stand behind a tiny little wall lol), arc titans providing amplified and maybe some form of DR, etc. I refuse to believe the creative well has run so dry that they can't think of a way to give titans a useful and unique niche. I feel for my titan brethren.
I love that you called out void titan overshields because I've been saying we should be able to throw our shield at teammates to get them fat overshields for a short period of time (sort of like the new prismatic fragment does for us) - bonus points if it can bounce off them and hit other homies
>I'd love to see a void titan that can give their teammates overshields Code of the Protector had that on melee kills with defensive strike and Code of the Commander let your void detonator explosions restore health, melee, and grenade energy for you and allies with controlled demo My dream is where I can apply actually helpful void overshields with the melee and have controlled demo back in its original form. And also to make Bubble better somehow.
I didn’t read everything but retail WoW has the same issue w class identity. When you have all classes do all things well it gets pretty muddy… Anyway, Hunter is big time dps don’t looks like I need to get mine up to level
This is true, but you can't then give a class an identity that is garbage or boring. It's one thing if all classes have unique identities that are equally strong, fun to play, and varied within the identity. But if you give one class an identity like "shoot gun", another "use space magic", and the third "punch", in a game revolving entirely around guns and space magic that has no actual melee combat system, it's no surprise that the "punch" class is going to be generally weak and unfun. Titans' identity *can't* be only melee (and *definitely* not "punch"). *It doesn't work*. There is no melee combat system in this game, just "stand near enemy and press melee button".
Funnily enough the arc strider super has a "melee system" with different combos for single or aoe damage etc. Not that anyone uses it for that but it is there.
This post feels like all my pent up frustrations spilled out in text form. Bravo, OP.
Can we expect a class rework, no, but we could expect a better Super that isn't just punchy super in a new flavour. If they released a machine gun super I would play Titan way more.
> Can we expect a class rework, no, but could we expect a better Super that isn't just punchy super in a new flavour? Also no. FTFY.
You’re gonna get a lot of flak and people aren’t going to read it because it’s a long post and there’s been soooo much Titan discourse lately, but you’re right on the money with it. I’m a case of the exact issue you’ve mentioned - somebody who wants to be a Titan main, but has abandoned the class in favor of Warlock. The lack of identity, the horrid barricade, being stuck to the same two classes we’ve been using for a year and a half if we want to contribute in endgame. And at this point, Warlock’s identity is so much more varied and interesting, I can’t say I’ll go back. For all the talk about Hunters taking over Titan’s melee identity, even Warlocks have a banger melee build on Prismatic. Feed the Void, Lightning Surge, Crown of Tempests and Storm Grenade (plus the artifact mod for DR while amplified) make for a pretty potent melee heavy build that has a comparable gameplay loop to Knockout + Consecration but with far more survivability AND ability spam. Honestly, I’ve heard rumors that Bungie is planning to do away with classes in the eventual “D3”, and assuming you buy into either of those, it would make sense. They can keep the “punch” identity to a set portion of the accessible abilities and let every have access to them, as well as the more unique ones.
If warlock just had a standard jump I would probably only play that class. Lol So much more personality than Hunter and Titan for sure.
Prismatic always seemed like a shortcut to me over creating a completely new subclass. And it's clear the Titans were the big losers in the Prismatic "battle." I assumed that the Titan kit would get some massive buffs from the Stoicism exotic combos, but they really avoided doing anything close to controversial like having a Cuirass/Star-Eater combo, Peregrine/Synthoceos, or Wormgod/Synthoceps. And don't get me started on the transcendence grenade skipping off to Narnia.
Focusing just on the grenade part, I haven’t done titan yet is the grenade really that hard to use? I’ve found hunters to be basically useless unless I can stick it directly to an enemy because of how janky every. Single. Surface. Is when I throw it on one
It’s not it just acts like a real grenade. You can even bounce it off of walls to hit enemies behind cover. It’s also generally just really good crowd control with good dmg. I think ppl just aren’t used to grenades that don’t explode on impact or stick to a surface
Bounces like an incendiary grenade.
not even a little bit lol. it has a large radius and detonates shortly after hitting any terrain - it's predictable and easy to use. the people complaining are just not used to physics-based grenades, there's nothing actually wrong with it
One of your examples is a Super, and the other two are melee-focused. That right here is the issue. I don't care about meleeing things to death, cheesing bosses, or having a spike in damage once every 5 minutes. I care about shooting things for a long time. Throwing lots of grenades. Good ability loops. Being very resilient. Providing my team with all of these buffs. Keeping my teammates from dying. EXPLOSIONS. The Titan fantasy goes far beyond "melees and supers", and Bungie seems to know that, because we have lots of effects and exotics that go far beyond "punch things or make them go boom". HoiL, Hazardous Propulsion, Armamentarium, No Backup Plans, One-Eyed Mask, Lorelei, Actium War Rig, Precious Scars. Some of these exotics suck, but my point stands: they expand on what it means to be a Titan. Bungie needs to lean *more* into this kind of thing, not less, like they did with Prismatic.
The combos we got are just a bunch of crap for the most part. Why couldn't we get Verity in the first column and Armamentarium in the 2nd? Nope! Both in the 2nd. With 1 grenade aspect like Touch of Thunder we could have had an awesome grenade spam build. I just settled on HOIL/Armamentarium and thats been my favorite so far.
They went so hard on making sure nothing was OP on stoicism that they forgot they could just do a plane old P, and make something fun and powerful but not broken.
I generally agree. I just raised the point of the Stoicism releasing as a potential reason the Titan Prismatic Kit was so underwhelming to start.
That's the crazy thing, in a sane world titans aren't losers in prismatic. its a reasonable kit where the biggest hang-up is inflexibility. It's just that it's like the balance team went over titan with a fine toothed comb to make sure nothing imba existed (the drengr/thruster fart cloud doesn't just happen, its a conscious choice to nerf the interaction) but then just rubber stamped the other two classes kit without looking at them.
God what I wouldn't do for Hallowfire Heart and Phoenix Cradle/Loreley Splendor to be a possible combo on the exotic class item, but instead it feels like the overwhelming majority of combinations are painfully mid.
They threw I'm a bunch of underused exotics for titan, which is weird, because one, there was a reason they weren't used very often, and two, the other classes get access to some pretty broken combo's
Nah. Buff titan because it can be so much more than what it currently is. Give titan more identity because through all the nerfs we lost ours.
It’s just sad to see a hunter do a better job at the role of what titans are meant to be
Hunters have that same problem with mobility, titans and warlocks have better movement than them and it's so weird
Yeah it's so fucking weird. Our stat is mobility but it sucks and is useless. Our jump is vertical, meaning every class can jump spam to our speed us. Until Acrobat Dodge we had zero support for the fire team on our class ability (I hate dodge is our class ability tbh). 99% of our exotics either are trash or require a super specific playstyle, and nothing just super fun and engaging. Also, smoke bomb sucks. Then Titans become less punchy than us on Prismatic? How? Why? It's entire existence was dumbed down to punch, yet Hunter has a better punching flow with Prismatic. I still can't believe the only true one and done super for Titans is Thundercrash. Why don't they have their Nova Bomb/Golden Gun yet? Strand Titan getting ANOTHER roaming punch is so dumb still. Melee is the worst thing (I love Ergo Sum to be clear) because EVERYTHING gets a knock back that does more damage than the Collapse did. So their entire identity is antithetical to the sandbox. Warlocks just get beaten down with a baseball bat because Well was downright the worst thing to add to this game. It forced entire encounters to be designed with Well in mind, and then they just don't give them decent melee. It's so confusing how they look at all this and think it's fine? It too us like 6 expansions for Hunters to get proper synergy with an exotic weapon and armor (Moth arms and moth gun iirc, and then Still Hunt and Celestial.) while Titans I don't think have any and Warlocks got like 4. I've seen more exotics DoA because they're so bad it hurts or they go against every common sense thing. I just don't get it.
Titan glaive doesn't even work with Saint-14 lmao it's so bad.
I’ve been saying something similar for years now. Either we are the “fist/punch class” and they should lean into that and stop nerfing us for making builds to excel at this niche. Or we aren't and they should rework what they want Titan to be.
Outstanding post that articulates exactly everything wrong with Titans. > Titans don’t need a buff. We NEED a REWORK. A complete overhaul of our identity that was forced upon us. We don’t want to be the boring punching class anymore. We need something, anything different than punching. Because we suck at this point, and it breaks my heart to say that. This underlies all the recent titan threads, its not necessarily about buffing the class. That would just result in one off increases to discrete abilities or items that can easily be nerfed in the future. What needs to happen is a rework overall to give the class synergy between its different elements like Warlock and Hunter. I said yesterday in another thread that Bungie needs to put its best class designers on titan to rework it.
Funny thing is, they keep giving Hunters DPS options, and Warlocks healer options, but seem allergic to giving Titans tanking options. Now, granted, part of that is because really good tanking can trivialize a lot of activities, but still.
How would you describe Into the Fray or Banner of War if not as tanking and healing options?
The problem is, they’re on one subclass and similar effects need to be expanded to all of them. IMO Sunspots should benefit teammates without the use of Phoenix Cradle is one example.
Titan definitely wasn't just seen as the punch class in D1 or launch d2. Imo they only really started simplifying titan down and describing it as the punch class when they added stasis. Then everything was calcified when they doubled down and did the 3.0 reworks for the light subclasses. All of the class abilities always felt completely designed around pvp for me. Call me crazy but rift on its own doesn't feel too viable in the hardest pve content the game has to offer either. Almost every prismatic warlock and titan are using their movement class abilities because they just fit into the game better than placing an object. Class abilities are being used most of the time because of the things that happen when you use your class ability like hellion or reaper or heart of inmost light or the new rocket chest piece for titans not because the class ability itself. Provides anything useful. If class abilities were universal, everyone would be using one of the hunter dodges or phoenix dive in pve 95% of the time because they feel like they provide more AND have a faster cooldown for getting the on class ability benefits people actually want.
Dude... I will call you crazy if you think Rift doesn't have a place in PvE. I've played all three classes, and Warlock has the best class ability as a baseline and it's not close. The number one thing that everyone needs in harder content is a way to heal on demand, and every single Warlock gets it as a baseline. Your health is the resource that lets you play the game. Low health? Hide behind cover. No health? Literally start over. A little somersault? A wall? They're good situationally, but the most common situation is taking and dealing damage. And only one class has a class ability that helps with both those things.
Just give us all thematic dodges, Hunters stay, Titans roll and put up cover, Warlocks teleport.
I just think Titan class ability could use a rework for sure. Both warlocks and hunters class ability is really good. Titan just plops a paper thin wall. Too many enemies have crazy splash dmg and can rush you for just sitting behind a barricade. Plus, it gives no benefits. Warlocks heal, hunters get full abilities back.
They went in the right direction when Void 3.0 launched and gave us Bastion. Would have loved if each subclass did something with its barricade. Hell I would have thought they would have made Kepri’s current benefit an aspect, and reworked the exotic to be the solar version of Abeyant Leap. Edit: I originally said Offensive Bulwark instead of Bastion. I always mix them up…I’m a terrible Titan main.
Yeah bastion barricade was awesome when void 3.0 launched, and you could plant one every 14 (rally) or 25 (tower) seconds. Nowadays though? Rally bastion cooldown is about 50 seconds, tower bastion about 80. Absolutely useless for pve with how flimsy void overshields are. Still was usable with unnerfed HOIL, but the HOIL class ability buff going from 100/200% for 10s to 25/50% for 5s absolutely destroyed that build too. And yeah, titans having no class ability interaction on any subclass (and the one they had on void being absolutely destroyed) unless you run an exotic for it, really limits the subclasses. They specifically gave the hunter stasis slow dodge a buff that gives it lower cooldown in pve than pvp with final shape... why oh why didn't they also give that to bastion barricade? Things like this really make me think no one who has anything to say at Bungie plays titan much.
The HOIL nerf was way too harsh. Feel like a good healthy medium would be 75/100% regen for 7 seconds would be better. Btw, what’s the point of thruster? It doesn’t reload my weapons, doesn’t give me melee energy or refund it if performed near enemies, doesn’t heal me. Just moves me in whatever direction I feel like moving. Feels like other than a smaller cool down than rally barricade, it should provide another benefit. Guess we’ll have to wait until another exotic drops for it to get an improvement of some kind.
On void you can sacrafice* an aspect spot to get an overshield from it... *not like there are way better options
Agree, I think the barricade at a minimum should provide an Auro of damage reduction. That 1 change would be very helpful in a support role. Call it something like Barricade Defense Aura. Then allow exotics to interact with this Aura. Such as, while under the effects of Barricade Defense Aura, kills reload your equipped weapons from reserves.
Have barricades become mobile shields instead? Like once you place it down, you can pick it up? Maybe it hovers in front of the player, causing weapons to apply debuffs on hit? Or be able to push the barricade forward, cover teammates, and go for revives? Or just make it so barricades can reflect a portion of projectiles? Idk what to do. Most options are just borderline warframe or too broken for pvp. Remove barricades damage on contact for pvp so enemies can walk through it, but it applies a class specific debuff like jolt or volatile or scorch? Can I please just throw the barricade then? Sorry, I'm just ranting here.
Honestly, maybe we need a bit of Warframe. Give us the ability to pick up barricades and (maybe) grant weapons the ability to prod status effects when shot through a barricade at the cost of some of its health, idk.
Doesn’t rally boost your reload speed a ton?
Read everything and agree with most. There are a lot of exotics that have near no usability, but Titans have the most of them. And as far as their identity goes, it's just as you've said; they're the punching class but this isn't a game designed for melee combat, and even if it was, they're getting outclassed. Before I talk about some other shit, I need to talk about something melee related. I like Glaives, but I hate how they block the powered melee abilities, just like the swords. That alone makes me steer away from Glaives completely. As Swords use heavy ammo (with the exception of the newer Ergo Sum), I rarely touch them. Both Glaives and Swords need to allow powered melee abilities channelled through them. Wish Glaives and Swords were equipped on a dedicated melee item slot and enhanced your melee abilities. Even if Titans excelled at punching stuff, it gets quickly old seeing the very same punch animation for the umpteenth time. With that Glaive complaint out of the way, I'd like to talk about Titan's barricade. It should be replaced by something like Banner of War. Melee hits, kills and finishers by anyone affected by the buff should extend its duration, and it should provide very high melee damage reduction. The alternate version of the banner could provide a buff that gets strengthened the more people are in the aura and could provide ranged/color damage reduction instead. Strand's Aspect could amplify the effects, and maybe allow you to use air dash plant the banner on the ground, increasing its radius while dealing damage. The Banner of War as Titan Class Ability suggestion above won't make the game more melee friendly on its own, but maybe with some tweaks to the existing melee weapons, such an ability could help Titans gaining a new identity as frontline soldiers. Still not enough though. The prismatic I won't go into much detail, as I think that prismatic is rather restrictive. Some combos are unhinged for sure, but when you take those unhinged stuff out of the equation, prismatic feels like half a class. I can talk about this a lot, so I'll be skipping as it's mostly irrelevant. One thing Bungie needs to do is separate PvP sandbox from PvE sandbox completely. An old game called Guild Wars (the first one) is one of the first games that I've seen which did exactly that. When you were in a PvP, some of your skills would be replaced with their PvP variants and some were completely different. Without such a separation, what we get is PvP or PvE concerns and/or changes affecting each other, and I've read quite a few posts over here in the last few days. I wonder if such concerns affected the development of prismatic at all, given how restrictive it actually is when you ignore some combos with exotics. Back to the topic, I've always seen Hunters as the sneaky, self-sufficient, accurate, infiltrator types. Warlocks are usually the wise, supportive, team-player, rearguard types. Titans as the vanguard (frontline), defensive, leader, tactical types. In the game however, Titans manage to be none of those. The common denominator is the class ability, hence why I keep saying get rid of barricade, give banner. I truly believe that replacing the class ability with Banner of War would not only replace a shitty ability with a great one, but it'll also grant the leader & frontline descriptors to Titans very easily. Anyway, I've strayed off topic here and there, apologizes. Exotics and other individual abilities like supers and whatnot would be a long read/write, which I won't go into. All I can say for those is, if Bungie tries to fix anything through those, they'll just compel everyone to use those instead of actually fixing anything. Buffs and shit are bandaids at this point. As you've said, a rework is needed. Titan is my least played class, but to be honest I'd welcome such a rework. But more than anything else, PvE and PvP affecting each other needs to stop as it affects the whole game and not just the Titans in my opinion.
Whenever I play Warhammer 40k: Darktide, I find myself latching onto some of the classes' abilities and dreaming that I could use them when I play a Titan. For example, the Ogryn Taunt/Shield tank build. This is what I wanted Unbreakable to be. Taunting all enemies around you and pulling the agro away from your teammates to give them some breathing room while you tank the damage...or quite literally being able to trample through all of them (this is what the Juggernaut aspect should have been all about lol). The ability "Voice Of Command" on Veteran unleashes a 360° AoE effect around you that gives you breathing room and pushes all enemies away from you, and replenishes you and your teammates shields. Every time you do it there's also such a badass battlecry ["I WANNA HEAR THEM SCREAM!"](https://youtu.be/WsjZaHk8mbs?si=lkPmtduVlfc5hglf) You can also auto revive teammates with this. It's things like this that would fit Titan perfectly, as well as fit the original "Unbreakable wall and tactician" description of Titans. It really is such a shame that the overall Titan class infrastructure is just a goddamn mess and at this point Bungie has dug the class into such a hole, it's almost hopeless, from a creativity standpoint.
Bungie needs to lean into Titan as the tank class, but for whatever reason they think "lol punch" is the correct identity. I wouldn't mind Titan having inferior melee and single-target damage to Hunter and inferior ability uptime and crowd control to Warlock if I could keep myself and the rest of the fireteam alive better. Bastion and Banner of War are the right direction for Titan: let us protect ourselves and the team with overshields and/or healing. If you want Warlocks buffing damage instead, that's fine with me. And Hunters can have the best damage supers and exotic interactions if you want. But let Titans be the protection class that keeps everyone alive and able to push forward.
I agree with this. I **love** playing a tank class in games. In the Superhero MMOs the Tank class did less damage but was more durable. It could even work for PVP - can your durability outlast a Hunter's high damage abilities? Or a Warlock's plus their healing? Titans should really be: Here's the line in the sand - now come at me bro.
Dude smoked a dubbie and went on a rant.. he's right though titans got screwed.
I remember this being essentially the dillema of playing a hunter pre subclass 2.0 after the golden gun nerf. Hopefully titans defensive capacity will be bolstered in end game content without harming other classes. It'll be unfortunate if (more like when) bungo inevitably nerfs golden gun again so no one except warlock is having fun.
I wanted so bad for the titans to be the Braum of LoL. I want defense, I can sacrifice dps for a defensive subclass. Let me also defend others (Sentinel shield but more frequent and smaller). You hit the nail on the head about the good ideas out there and just the need for an identity that they are best at bar none that is relevant. ANYTHING. In most rpg trios you have the melee,ranged,magic. I don't often see the ranger out melee damage a barbarian, and yet here we are!
10 year Titan main as well here. So much said in this post, mostly I agree, some parts I think could've been put together better. For example, most exotics you listed, I won't even call them "good" or "not bad", they are straight up bad. Lorely is a cope exotic that I still see some titans run, but it's just not that great if you want meta strong builds. I know, meta, ewww. But literally if you want to compete with Synthos, Gryfalcon, Nighthawk, Sunbracers....etc, 90% of titan exotics are just mid. I always like to take a step back to see if what being said is fair to everyone, to make sure I'm not just crying and biased, so let's take a look. I'm counting meta exotics that are widely used in the current sandbox, whether pvp or pve. Hunters have Nighthawk, Assassin's Cowl, Foetracer, Kunckle Head, Crytarachne's Facade, Mask of Bakris, Wormhusk, Liar Handshake, Renwal Grasp, Dragon's Shadow, Gryfalcon, Omnioculus, Orpheius Rig, Lucky Pants, Dance Machine, Stompee, Star Eater. Like holy fuck at least half of it has some uses. I have to have a excel sheet list opened on my 2nd monitor to list all those bc there are so many. What about Titans? I can name them on the top of my head: Synthos, Wormgods, Pyro, HOIL, Rocket chest piece, Curiass, Peace Keeper, Dunemarchers, OEM, Feedback Fence. That's literally it. And the 3 pvp exotic can't even be used in pve lmfao, while Hunters have some overlaps ones like Liar, Lucky pants, Crytarachne's Facade if you have some unique playstyle in mind in pvp. E Even Curiass could barely count bc a lot of encounters T-crash are useless, like the Witness fight. And if we are talking about exotics for buffing supers, how come you can straight up run a build with Nighthawk bc it's useful for both neutral game and buffing super (hs kills give you super energy), but you can't with Titan bc exotics like Curiass ONLY buffs the super, and does nothing when you don't have a super. HOW IS THAT FAIR??? Yes Pyro buffs consecration too, that's a good start, but then again you can't use Burning Maul in every encounter bc Bungie loves to design melee supers for Titan, but you can literally use Goldie on any encounter. Again, not fair. I haven't even touch Warlocks yet, but pretty much the same case. I wouldn't even give Ursa that much credit either. The only use for them I see is for King's Fall SPEED RUN during the Golgorath encounter, not a singular use outside of that for regular play bc Sentinel sucks. Pheonix Protocal has more use bc Well is just better at everything than every void Titan super. I LOVE the new rocket chest piece (probably gonna get nerfed bc Bungie hates Titan having fun for some reason), because it's so unique AND useful. It's the only thing holding Prismatic Titan together for me, bc I can use decent abilities like consecration for neutral game, while also use thruster to dish out the rockets for good dmg (the only decent class ability for Titan, barricades are ass). Speaking of, I 100% agree on the class abilities. Why the fuck does Pheonix Dive heals you, Hunters can either INSTANT reload or INSTANT recharge a melee, while our Thruster or Barricades have 0 effects??? Honestly, giving the instant reload back to rally barricades like how it was in Forsaken, wouldn't even be that OP nowadays since we've power crept so much, why not? Most melees are bad, and I hate that almost all TItan subclasses are just "Punching but with different colors" kind of builds. 100 agree on that. Void WOULD'VE BEEN so great if it's reworked/hugely buffed, because the fundamentals are there. We have controlled demolition for healing everyone, killing power, some abilities regen, and some defensive overshield. Bubble, Sentinel Shield, and Twilight axe are all great super as a concept. If they get some big buffs, it would amazing to play as Void Titan. Even Unbreakable is a cool concept, but it just isn't useful in practice bc it eats your grenade (should be changed imo) AND no synergy with everything else.
I’m glad you made this post because every time I try to bring this type of post up I get trolled. You are 100% right about the state of Titans I realize this back in Beyond Light when Ager’s Scepter was first added but it had no synergy with Behemoth and made Warlocks and Hunters more tanky than anything a Titan can do. There’s lots of examples like this in the game such as Warlock Healing Rift giving overshield but all Titans get is a Barricade that helps reload, it took till Void 3.0 for Titans to get that and it requires an Aspect. My point is that yeah I agree with you we need a rework from top to bottom, Subclasses, Supers, Abilities and especially Exotics. We need better synergy! I hope that Bungie sees these post that have been popping up and I hope they address it because everything you said I’ve known for years as a day 1 Titan Also last thing other exotics that suck or aren’t worth it… Ice Fall Mantle - no reason it should make you slow and not able to jump Dunemarches - seriously no jolt and or amplify? Or anything that synergizes Ashen Wake - no scorch no ignite and requires roaring flames to be decent Crest of Alpha Lupi - why does this even exist at this point? I wish the Witness had used Final Shape on this. Path of Burning Steps - the original effect was never good and it still isn’t, like how often do you actually get frozen for this exotic to matter? End of exotic rant
Path of Burning Steps was made to counter Stasis PVP meta It was obvious that people would stop using it after Bungie nerfed Stasis, just a short slighted exotic
Yeah and even then it didn’t do much against the meta, I don’t recall ever seeing anyone use this in PVP
You forgot the worst offender - citans ramparts. Bungie is afraid of making them half decent because it would trivialize half their game and show major flaws in their design.
It would feel as bad for me personally if Bungie hadn’t spent the last year nerfing the **** out of all Titan melee abilities only to ignore hunters melee and THEN giving them buffs so their melee’s are now the best options in the game with not even a close second. They have the best dps? Fine idc But stop nerfing me because I’m having a little bit of fun and deal with syntho+caliban+combination blowsx3 infinite uptime maybe?
i swear combination blow works like an aspect, it literely better than knockout and yet its actually juse a normal melee option. the closest thing titans have to a special melee would be thorwwing hammer and that only cus its also unlimted and grants cure on pickup but still everything else is really basic
And also they hate throwing hammer and have nerfed it many times Dunemarchers, cooldown added, etc
I’m wanting to see what bungie says as they have more accurate data then we do about pick and usage rates.
The contest mode stuff is public data, anyone can look it up
As others have pointed out that doesn’t show how many used titans up till the last encounter then swapped. Which still isn’t great that one class than dps dominant that people would need to swap but I also mean used in general. Alot of complaints about Titan prismatic and I have my own but I don’t know if that’s representative of the majority of players but they’d have a better picture.
the thing about the final encounter of this latest raid is that, of course hunters are going to be the best for DPS, golden gun is meant to be the high damage, easy to miss, super. As long as you have a boss that doesn't move much and has a giant crit spot of course hunters are going to stand out.
The issue isn't that hunters are the best at boss dps, it's that titans bring nothing useful for boss dps. The best we have is barrier of bubble but they don't really fit in well either. And our best boss dps supers suck without using an exotic. Even worse, the only dps super that can even reasonably be used on the Witness fails to track correctly the majority of the time. That's also just one specific issue with titans in relation to bosses. Outside of that our "identity" doesn't fit into endgame activities unless your playing solo.
I'm pretty sure they are waiting for GMs to drop before they say anything. I think Titan use will rise at that point because they do have a very good CC kit in their prismatic build. Then they can say "titan is fine in endgame" and do nothing for their raid viability.
I think they’ll do more to address it because while I do agree the final shape was an amazing dlc the honey moon phase will eventually end and since episodes seem a lot like season I don’t think they’ll do much to stop that so people are gonna start noticing the issues especially with sandbox even more so.
I've been a titan main the entire time I played D2. I picked it because I'm a tank main in just about every MMO and MMO-adjacent game I play. I like wearing big armor. I like being on the front lines, in the thick of combat. I like being a wall protecting my teammates. And while I do like punching things, I don't want it to be the class's entire identity. I remember reading the lore tab thing for Sentinel, and thinking it was the coolest thing. >I'm shaking, hands on my knees, panting. Let the monsters come. Let them come forever. Let them climb the piled bodies of their dead. I don't care. That's the thing I do better than anyone. Not care. Let them come in their hundreds and every one will die at my feet. I don't care about their homing rockets, their exotic matter slugs, their blades from another dimension. > I don't care because I cannot be moved. I am the wall against which the Darkness breaks. > Malphur can turn his gun to fire and Shinobu can dance with lightning, but when the horrors run out of the dark, I am the one who does not move. > I am a wall. And walls don't move. Because walls don't care. This *still* fucking rules, man. I want to be this! The closest thing to this is on Strand with Banner of War/Into the Fray, but that just doesn't work for me. I don't like the constant pulsing and the noise it makes, and even with the DR from Woven Mail and the healing pulses, I feel like I still just die a lot of the time if I ever go out into the open in harder content. I don't know how the people who say it's braindead easy and you can do that and be unkillable do it. Prismatic was such a disappointment. The starting setup they give you feels like the only thing close to synergistic that it has. Shackle grenade a group, and zap'em with a charged up thunderclap to kill them and heal yourself with Knockout (and you better have Point-Contact Cannon Brace), then throw a diamond lance at the next group, zap them, etc. This falls apart pretty quickly though. Often times you'll kill the next group before the diamond lance cooldown is up, unless you're purposefully playing slow to wait out the timer. Or you'll just take too much damage and die, even with the extra damage reduction it got. Sometimes there's just too many dudes, or sometimes you'll just take too much damage getting into position from enemies that didn't get frozen that the DR can't save you once you start charging. The only thing we seem to get is like "Wow! 3 Consecrates!" but Frenzied Blade has such a long cooldown on Prismatic that it mostly feels like I'm just using normal Consecrate without any of Solar's fragments that make it good. Unbreakable drains too fast, and even when I block damage, it doesn't seem to do as much damage that just throwing a grenade would have done. Also flavor-wise, I feel like it should drain from your melee (or barricade, I guess) instead. Void's whole deal is shields. Shield bash, shield throw, sentinel shield super. Hell, even our new axe super has the shield for an axe head! I also think Ursa should recharge some of that energy on block too. Maybe that's giving too much to the exotic, but I want it (and Banner Shield) to be good. Transcendence is also really underwhelming, like the constant roaming supers we get, this is yet another thing designed for add clear. And the grenade is just annoying to use, especially with physics and the amount of greebly floor textures. I know, I know, "skill issue." But are you telling me you never have it hit a weird part of the floor and bounce back towards you, or off in some other direction and be completely wasted? It doesn't happen all the time, but just enough to be really noticeable and frustrating. And if I had to guess, the bounce and delayed explosion is designed to give you time to charge up Thunderclap or run up and Consecrate, but I can do those *while* they're suspended, and much safer since I'll have less things shooting at me as I get into position! The only upside I have to running Prismatic is being able to use Thruster on a non-Arc class, so I can abuse its lower cooldown to use the missiles from Hazardous Propulsion more. I even put Strategist on The Call to help with this. These two things have been the only things that I've been enjoying on the class since TFS dropped, and I live in fear of them being nerfed. None of the exotic class item combos have seemed interesting, outside of like, a HoIL/Star-Eaters combo. I got Abeyant/Khepri's and got excited since it's synergistic, but it's pathetic. It'll kill the weakest of red bars, but doesn't even kill a red bar acolyte with a moth shield in Overthrow, and it barely tickles anything above that. Also, I am sick of things being ruined because of PvP balancing. I know they buffed the PvE DR for barricades to compensate for their lower HP, but it still *feels* like they get shredded faster. And we still have the longer cooldown on them too. Even moreso for Bastion, which really got fucked hard for PvP balance. It's just all so frustrating, man. Prismatic Warlock has been so much fun, and I want to do cool things on my main too!
As a titan main, I've never felt so useless
exactly this. with hunters taking the spotlight in terms of just about everything and prismatic having barely any flexibility (imo) i just feel kinda lost as a titan main :p
Bungie: Titans... You can use melting point! .......
Firstly, I agree with just about everything you said. I maimed Titan from TTK up until TFS. I dropped it, because, as you put so eloquently, it sucks. Moved to the other two classes, classes which I hate. But what can you do? I don’t want to get kicked from raid groups because the class I want to play is useless. In every role-based game I’ve ever played, I’ve gravitated towards tanks. Everything from D&D to damn Overwatch. And this game just… doesn’t have that. We started to with Banner of War, but then that got nerfed, then got outdone by hunters, who now have a melee build far more broken than Banner ever was. It just… I don’t know. It’s really nice and cathartic to see someone else put my abstract thoughts into words so well. Thank you. Praying that this sentiment somehow finds its way to Bungie.
>In every role-based game I’ve ever played, I’ve gravitated towards tanks. Everything from D&D to damn Overwatch. And this game just… doesn’t have that. I play Paladin in D&D because one turn I can be laughing off almost as much damage as the Barbarian and the next I can evaporate some demon, devil, or undead while burning all my smite slots, all the while making my team more resilient with my Aura of Protection. The closest I've felt to that fantasy in Destiny was when I gave my whole fireteam Woven Mail with a Tangle and then kept them healed with Banner of War.
Literally the only build I've seen for prismatic titan is "spam consecration", and while fun for a bit, it's a novelty that gets so boring. I don't want to just spam a single attack in every encounter forever, I should be able to do wacky wild shit like warlocks having 4 turrets and 1 shotting bosses with Nova Bomb. Every time they give titans something powerful, they immediately whittle away at it until it's a fragment of what it was and forgotten about. You can't even t-crash some bosses anymore. And they never have us the promised tracking on bonk hammer. I've gone back to warlock. Haven't mained warlock since Forsaken. I forgot how much fun it is and how powerful I feel. I don't feel powerful on titan.
The prismatic thing gets me the most. I was so hype for prismatic because FINALLY playing titan would be fun and powerful and I'd be able to keep up with rhe rest of the classes without spending weeks perfecting a build. But nope. Every fragment is eh for what the titan does, consecration is the only good dps option, t crash is ass (it won't even take out a blistering ogre in the pale heart or even take it below half health in my experience), punching everything is so incredibly risky, and the only good dps we have (cons.) Is a melee thing that end up fucking you over more than anything else. I remember making a warlock last season, spending about 3 minutes to throw together some shoddy build, and I rid better than my titan (who was leveled up, had the build crafting, better weapons, etc.) And it just started to kill any love I have for titan
I mean I've seen more people talk about how the Titan design, the fantasy, needs to change more than numbers or "buffing".
I've read the whole thing and I most definitely agree, insofar as Titan fantasy we have a lot to go off of. Titans are leaders, strategists, builders, architects, warriors, soldiers, artists and sometimes philosophers. Fact of the matter is there is a lot that can be drawn from but for some reason they won't. I feel the Titan has been flanderized to such a ridiculous degree I can't take anyone seriously that buys into the memes: crayon eaters, fist on the cover, punching class etc. I chose Titan way back in the beginning of D1 because I wanted to be a magic wielding super soldier, master of arms and a leader that guides his fellow guardians into battle with explosions, kickass and the *occasional* punch. Do I like to punch? Yes I do, but there is *far* more to the Titan than the freaking punch as fun as it is. I want Titan to be more closer to the old school lore of what they are. Not convinced? Let me ask you one question: Would you call Shaxx a crayon eater to his face? He'd most likely backhand your Guardian's head off like he did to Felwinter during his Warlord days. I doubt you'd say that to Saladin, Zavala or especially Wei-Ning: she'd Thunderclap you into next millenium! All I'm trying to say is bring Titan back to our roots fantasy wise and tweak the class to lean into that.
It was really disheartening when the devs were talking so passionately about Hunter and Warlock identities and new content and then Yanes addressed the complaints about Strand being punch but green this time by essentially saying that Titans are one dimensional with the "guy with the fist on the cover" shit. That was kind of the moment I started feeling like they have no one passionate or caring about Titan at Bungie who works on the abilities team. It just sucks that the majority of Titan feels so one dimensional and feels like I'm sandbagging my team by not playing Hunter or Warlock.
Prismatic actually got me to play some titan, even if it is just gimmicky. Three consecrations and a neat void shield thing that’s bugged and always does max damage? Sign me up. The issue I’ve noticed with prismatic is that while you’d assume there a a lot of buildcrafting potential, the classes (or at least hunters) are coerced into on build. 3 of hunter’s aspects revolve around the class ability. Winter’s shroud for slow/freeze, threaded spectre for debuff/decoy, and ascension for haha funny. 3 of 5 aspects revolve around the class ability, with the remaining 2 being: invis and weaken, gunpowder gamble. There isn’t a lot of potential for a variety of builds when the aspects are so restrictive. Not much else you can do but punch, since combination blow is the only consistent way to get that class ability back. Which goes to say, why do hunters get the punchy class? Why do hunters get to freeze all nearby targets after 2 s Dodges, doubling melee damage? Plus stylish, liars, etc, for hundreds of thousands of damage in a single punch? Hunters even got grapple, meaning they have access to a second punch ability, that can be used infinitely (via grapple points). And hunter healing with combo blow/liars isn’t just limited to those two sources. If you didn’t know, the recuperation legs armor mod heals you pretty massively per orb you pick up. If you also didn’t know, having three heavy handed/firepower arms mods will completely remove the orb generation cooldown of these methods. If you also didn’t know, while combination blow is active, for heavy handed’s purposes, unpowered melee’s will be considered powered melees. Meaning every single powered and unpowered melee will spawn an orb to heal you, you’ll potentially get liars healing and potentially get combination blow healing. You also can run the fragment that makes melee final blows start health regen, but that’s available to all classes. Prismatic titan has access to… the fragment. I don’t even remember if they have access to banner of war or not. I think so? But without the numerous damage buffs hunters get, and with synthoceps being available on all exotic class items, not even synthoceps gives titans an edge in melee anymore. All identity has been stripped away from titan with prismatic, and replaced with a new identity: the gimmick class. Consecration. The new void aspect. Ward of dawn. Sentinel shield. Twilight arsenal. Drengr’s lash. Diamond lance. I’d go on, but I don’t play much titan, so I don’t know much about what’s available to them. Titan has become the “new fun toy” class. You get to spawn relics for people to use, you get to use a shield that absorbs and reflects damage, you get to use consecration, all at the same time! But, while it’s fun for a bit, you realise it isn’t exactly viable. You can’t take twilight arsenal into a raid, the damage it does doesn’t justify the time. So pyrogale? Well, no more fun super for you. Wanna use the shield aspect? Gotta get real close. And guess what? It’s bugged, and always does max damage, so there’s currently so motivation to actually reflect damage, and seems just like another form of damage. Not usable on many bosses due to short range, and AoE of some attacks means you can’t even protect your team with it. Consecration? Fun the first 50 times, but then it just becomes routine. It’s an add clear machine, and transcendence means you get to soak it to your heart’s content, but that just means the prismatic titan is just consecration. Replace prismatic titan with the consecration aspect. Nothing else. Functionally won’t be much different. Prismatic is incredibly fun, and strong on hunter especially, but with a little more time having passed, the options for builds are significantly more limited than they first appeared. As I mentioned before, prismatic hunter has an incredibly strong punch build. But what else? I suppose time will tell.
I heavily disagree with some of the stuff you talk about but upvoting anyway cuz such a lengthy discussion with stuff I disagree with is better than the billionth brainless "Titan sucks look at these usage stats" or "Why is Hunter better at melee than Titans" post.
And that’s okay! I understand not everyone is going to agree with what I have to say. I play Hunter and Warlock (more so Hunter) frequently and they do have weaknesses of their own. I care more about active discussion than just telling Bungie to “buff titans and everything will be alright”.
And don't get me wrong I definitely agree with some of your broader points especially, like that there's more foundational issues with the identity they've been leaning into.
I always considered Titans the lockdown class. They are meant to hold a point and hold it well, or take a point and hold it well. Their entire identity is “this man does not move and you can’t make him”. Fortunately, the game has long since evolved from simple plate mechanics and brainless ad clear. Warlocks are the king of sieging a position, Hunters not ever needing a position to begin with. But when it comes time to actually hold a point, I would trust a Titan over a pre-nerf Well. However, holding a point does not always translate to damage output. And that’s okay because you ideally have 2-5 other people who can do that. Your job is set up the barricade as necessary and be an immovable backbone to the team. I love to rag on Titans myself, saying that Heir Apparent can do your job but better. But that’s not entirely true. The only thing better than a guy rocking Heir Apparent and being an unkillable behemoth is a Titan rocking Heir Apparent. Embrace the tanky construct identity. Punching things is only a small part of that identity.
I will say, I utilized Ursa Titan in the Witness Fight of Salvation’s Edge because we kept getting killed by the Resonance Beams, and the moment I swapped to that, the team cleared it. I was still contributing damage when the Super ran out (damage phase is decently long), and it kept us all alive to actually have rez’s when we went to final stand, and one of the guys said from then on he’s telling Titans to run Ursa for that fight
Woof. Writing short stories. Hope all is well
You must be in absolute hell on this text only sub.
I've been playing Prismatic Titan a lot. Not because I like it, but because I am trying to find a way to make it work in a way that I like. I can't find it. Nothing feels great. Everything, so far, feels sub par and survivability is whack. Knockout needs huge buffs. So yeah, it may look like people are playing Prismatic Titan a lot. It's most likely because we are just trying to figure out a way to make it work effectively. I am at the point where I am going to stop until it is buffed. P.S. It also doesn't help that farming the class item is a slog and it really feels like some perks are weighted differently. Maybe RNGesus just hates me. I am so sick of getting Orphidian and Verity.
I'd rather just have a complete buff set along everything really, the unbreakable needs a buff, tcrash needs a buff, a ton of stuff needs buffing not reworks.
I just want to point out, that in this insane wall of text, you started a paragraph with “Finally…” as if you were finishing up this book of yours, and then went on to write 4 more paragraphs. :-|
"TL;DR: Go Play Hunter" no. If that's your answer then clearly there is something about Titan that needs addressing. It's not even so much about buffing them so much as they need to stop nerfing things they need to be able to do the thing they're supposed to do. I.e Tanking.
Absolutely phenomenal write up. As a d1 titan main myself this is spot tf on.
Rework only Titans? In year 11 of Destiny's existence?? After the light/dark saga has concluded??? Right after they just finished introducing a new subclass and new abilities???? Of course I agree, but this is like saying what they need to do is invent a time machine and go back in time to correct their mistakes before they exist! I just don't see it happenin, and I'm sure many others don't see that as a viable option either. The only thing I can see them doing is buffing Titans and nerfing some Titan-like capabilities of the other classes.
> The only thing I can see them doing is buffing Titans and nerfing some Titan-like capabilities of the other classes This would just perpetuate the issues.
Tbf the hunter prismatic grapple melee setup is absolutely getting nerfed ASAP, either stylish is getting it's melee bonus removed or they'll fix the tether interaction.
Bungie honestly has no idea what they're doing when it comes to class identities Hunter and warlock can be more melee and tanky than titan and titan and warlock can be more mobile than hunter, that second one really bugs me
It do be weird. Why does titan, the punchie tanky class get the storm grenade on steroids with tracking, while warlock, the literal stormcaller subclass gets the normal base level storm grenade? Not to take anything from titans, they def deserve more, but this goes back to the core commentary - class identity design.
Reminder that clear stats represent only the final encounter, hard dps check when celestial still hunt is a thing is gonna mean more hunters. Especially when the boss is designed so most offensive supers other than golden gun do absolutely nothing.
I gave up reading the book half way through, but I’m either happy for you or sorry that happened In all seriousness though, it’s crazy to expect a complete rework to an entire class. They gonna just comepletely remake all your aspects, supers, and exotics. It’s just not gonna happen
I’ve been using loreleys since beyond light even after the nerf it’s pretty good for survival especially now with prismatic. Guy is right tho most titan exotics just plain suck.
Imma still rock my titan, i have fun with that class since d1/day one and even if its not the end all be all or as nutty as the other two, im having fun with it still. Nothing against those that want to switch either. but for me Titan till death lol
I use second chance all the time on prismatic just saying.
Hard disagree with the Thundercrash part. 220k is with that high risk, highest cooldown and beeing the weakest super is unbalanced as hell. It WILL be a huge difference making it 100% stronger (440k is solid meta like needlestorm) and rework cuirass to make something that has nothing to do with making Thundercrash stronger. Its a shame we literally cant use an exotic just because Thundercrash is so bad, WE need an exotic just to make it not bad. Its a wasted of a complete build.
I think one big design issue with Titan is how about two thirds of the exotics and the majority of the exotics do absolutely nothing If you're not getting kills, and usually those are supposed to be melee kills. Hazardous is Titan finally getting something close to a neutral exotic which has pretty much just been HOIL
I think with the success of banner of war Bungie should start looking into more aura based abilities for titan, I strongly agree that banner NEEDS something other than "I am wall here me- oh dammit it's gone" Titans class ability is fundamentally the WEAKEST as you've said because it only does one thing.... Place a wall. Titans just need less roaming supers, I would've rather had the 3 axes from Twilight cause big explosions in exchange for being able to roam with them. We need more heavy burst supers.
Hunter feels GODLY right now, Warlock feels GODLY #BuffTitans