##**RED WINGS FREE AGENCY SIGNINGS**
Player|Age|Pos|From|To|Term|AAV|Notes
:-|:-|:-|:-|:-|:-|:-|:-
Patrick Kane|35|RW|DET|DET|1|$4M|*NTC, $2M incentives
William Lagesson|28|D|ANA|DET|1|$775k|
Cam Talbot|36|G|LAK|DET|2|$2.5M|
Sheldon Dries|30|C|VAN|DET|2|$775k|
Erik Gustafsson|32|LD|NYR|DET|2|$2M|
Jack Campbell|32|G|EDM|DET|1|$775k|
Christian Fischer|27|RW|DET|DET|1|$1.125M|
##**RED WINGS UNRESTRICTED FREE AGENTS**
Player|Age|From|To|Term|AAV
:-|:-|:-|:-|:-|:-|:-|:-
David Perron|36|DET|OTT|2|$4M|
Shayne Gostisbehere|31|DET|CAR|3|$3.2M|
Daniel Sprong|27|DET||||
James Reimer|36|DET||||
Zach Aston-Reese|29|DET|VGK|1|$775k|
Austin Czarnik|31|DET||||
Matt Luff|27|DET||||
Taro Hirose|28|DET||||
Jared McIsaac|24|DET||||
John Lethemon|27|DET||||
Michael Hutchinson|34|DET||||
##**RED WINGS RESTRICTED FREE AGENTS**
Player|Age|From|To|Term|AAV
:-|:-|:-|:-|:-|:-|:-|:-
Moritz Seider|22|DET||||
Joseph Veleno|23|DET||||
Lucas Raymond|21|DET||||
Jonatan Berggren|23|DET||||
Ghost, Sprong, Walman, Bert, Hronek, ect. These guys had some offense, but all were at times defensive liabilities, and on the small side other than Bert. (How this draft went, teams are all making a shift.. going for big players. 5 players who were 6"7 were drafted. More than the amount of players under 5'11).
The writing is on the wall with our recent hard to play against, 200 ft draft picks. Along with Stevie Y telling us that we want to get better defensively. Without draft lottery luck, we need to build a team like Florida, the Blues cup team, and to a lesser extent Tampa's cup teams. Defensively sound 200 ft teams, with forecheckers, that can still score some goals.
Steve had a window in mind (2 years from now) and rolled the dice on some short term free agent signings until then, for stop gaps.Throw them at the wall and see what sticks. Some hit, some missed. But they are short term stop gaps until our #1 prospect pool is ready in 2 years, so who cares. I would argue that Chiarot although at first looked like a miss, played great last year.
We are going to have a team with Kaspers, MBN, Mazurs, Big mean Ed and Mo, Chiarot, Fischer and Ras crashing the net.. guys tough to play against, forechecking, defending. With a little pure skill thrown in there with ASP, Danielson(still 200 ft), Larkin, Raymond, ADB, Berg if he stays, Kane, ect thrown in.
Yzerman saw the overpays with too much term today. That does not line up with his window, and smartly is going to make trades this year instead. With only 2 years to go I see Kasper, Mazur, Ed, Aljo, getting their rookie years in this year. Preparing us to be ready for the next wave with Danielson, then ASP, MBN, ect..when Stevie starts pulling the trigger/makes the jump to a contender. Then we will be laughing. With a team similar to Florida. All players forechecking/playing 200 feet, mixed with some drafted skill and goals. A few skilled Vets like Larkin and ADB, & Ray and Mo leading the way. And hopefully Cossa and Augustine as an amazing tandem!
We will be competing then, while some other teams are reeling from the bad F.A. contracts signed today, causing them trouble. And have a young core to compete for multiple cups..who is hard to play against, 200 ft, forechecking like Florida!
Trust the Yzerplan!
Florida really has shown that anything is possible as long as you have the right buy-in from the players. It seems like they all just accepted to take dips in production just to have a more complete team game and it paid off for them. I mean nothing really stood out about Florida and the way they won, no real dynamic scorer or point producer, no crazy goaltender (Bob let in a lot of soft ones in that final series vs Edmonton) and no smal, flashy offensive Cale Makar esque defensmen that everyone drools about but no it was steady as they come Forsling who got the job done.
i like it. my take on the FA is similiar:
1. Steves not done yet. He kinda has to find a RD unless someone (ALJO?) can switch sides.
2. He absolutely wants better D. Hence Ghost and sprong out Edmunson in Fisher back.
3. Next year is a much better FA class then this one. if you're gonna go big wait for a big fish
4. Real growth comes from within (thanks Buddha). The prospects need to be where most of our improvement comes from.
5. Its not out of the question that we are better this year. If nothing else we should be a better skating team with the youngins.
Well time to sleep. Steve really pissed off the fan base yet again it seems after reading and listening to stuff all day. Poor guy cant win with this less than stellar fan base.
Good signings in my eyes, but definitely more status quo than moving forward. There probably wasn't much out there that could genuinely move us forward with the money bookmarked for Seider and Raymond needing to be saved.
Man it sure looks like some teams spent too much and will be stuck needing to offload someone. Off the top of my head Colorado and Seattle both seem kind of screwed and tight wonder what others still have some key players to sign that could be looking to deal with
The Wings not being the team to give some of those contracts is a massive win in my book. 6 years for a 34 year old Tanev, $8M x 4 years for a washed up Stamkos, $5M x 6 years for Zadorov, $5.5M for Dumba, $6.25M x 7 years for Chandler Stephenson. I'm glad those contacts are all on other teams
I mean, we don’t have to call Stamkos washed up because he didn’t sign with us. He signed a deal that he is worth and hasn’t shown much sign of slowing down at this point.
We don't have to call him washed up because he didn't sign with us, he's not good at driving play anymore and basically is a PP merchant.
Maybe that's different in Nashville, but I think they're going to regret signing him that long for that much.
Not entirely true, he's legitimately terrible 5 on 5 now. His possession and play-driving metrics are awful. He's a PP merchant now.
This sub isn't capable of looking at anything but raw point totals though lmao, not even sure why any sort of nuanced discussion is attempted
RemindMe! 1 year after Stamkos no longer has Kucherov feeding him PP points
40 goals and 40 assists washed up? Man you set the bar high . If we can overpay for average players like Copp and Compher then why not overpay for a hall of famer ?
Half his production was on the power play with Kucherov feeding him the puck. He’s no longer playing as a center much these days and doesn’t drive even strength play anymore, and defensively, he’s not good at all.
If he’s not washed up, then he’s on his way to getting there.
I don’t disagree. He would’ve been a nice luxury to have on the PP.
But that’s all he would have been, a luxury. What this team really needs to get better at is even strength play, and Stamkos wouldn’t have moved that needle for us.
Campbell is more or less AHL fodder
Husso, we can't really reliably expect him to play more than like 10 games with his injuries
Which leaves Lyon and Talbot
I'm glad we signed Fischer most memorable moment for me was the greasy 120% effort laying on the ice goal. He was determined to score there I think we won the game I hope so anyways.
Even the down years he's had he's still been on pace for 35+ goals. I really think he could help our team, especially on the powerplay. Not to mention he was experimenting with playing center in Columbus
Fabbri, Husso, and Petry are all off the books next summer, right?
That is around 9M to work with
Holl might be gone too? 12M in cap space to swing at a big fish?
Holl’s contract is two more years, but obviously there’s no guarantee that he is here the full term. Certainly nice to have those deals coming off of the books then though.
Alright after free agency here are the lines I drafted up:
DeBrincat Larkin Raymond
Kane Compher Veleno
Veleno Veleno Veleno
Berggren Rasmussen Petry
Chiarot Seider
Maatta Holl (Ed in GR)
Johansson Veleno
Then for goalies we have 1A Husso and 1B Veleno.
Thoughts?
I want the prospects to get a shot in the big league but I also want Stevie to sign some big names and I also want him not to spend too much money on vets and I also want to make the playoffs so I think I’m part of the problem.
I am right there with you. I think it is time for the youth to get their shot, but that means I can't be pissed if they don't pan out and we whiff on the playoffs due to "growing pains." I am not sure I am that enlightened and have that much of a handle on my inner peace.
So we've got roughly 21M in cap space, with Seider, Raymond, Veleno, and Berggren qualified but unsigned.
If we assume worst case 16M for Mo and Raymond, we've got 5M for Berg and Veleno. The latter two aren't going to cost more than 2.5M. That leaves us with 2.5M on the conservative side. Coincidentally, that 2.5M is what we'd owe Kaner next season in performance bonuses, but that's irrelevant for now.
We're currently at 10 Forwards if Veleno and Raymond sign, make it 11 with Berggren if we're getting frisky. Since we'll likely carry at least 12-13 forwards, I'm guessing the idea is one/some of:
* Mazur, Danielson, and Kasper (amongst others) are probably battling for a couple of spots.
* We may still look to being in an additional FA this off-season. I'd like to see a little more solidity in our top 6, but we'll see how the rest of FA and camp shake out.
* Four goalies in the roster won't stick. Even if Campbell ultimately goes to GR, still seems like we're desperate to move husso somehow.
* 8 D, including Holl and lagesson and Edvinsson leaves me thinking Ed is basically an expected lock for regular time. Imagine lagesson isn't expected to play full time but no idea what we plan to do with Holl. Guessing we've tried to move him but that contract is full-yikes.
The Holl and Husso deals are just rough to stomach. That 8M+ could do so much for us otherwise... Sigh. Still feels like we've got another move in us this week, though .
1. Spending to cap for our RFAs isn't actually that bad since the cap will go up. And ideally, they'll be high caliber players so we won't necessarily need Kane again.
2. Husso seems destined for LTIR if we're going to roll with four goalies not named Cossa and Augustine. To me, that seems like the case given his abortive attempts to return from injury.
3. Edvinsson seems a lock for sure, but also don't forget all this talk about Al Johansson getting every possible look in training camp.
4. I'm not sure what other FAs we'd be looking for. I'd rather clean out Grand Rapids of our top prospects and roll the dice on them over fretting about Gostisbehere leaving or the corpse of David Perron joining a terrible Senators team.
5. Holl had a bad year and his cap really stings, but running it back this year with him trying to prove his value for a spot over a rookie is a good thing. It might convince him to waive his clauses and send him to San Jose or Chicago or something. Or, he goes to Grand Rapids and regains some confidence. Or we get him through another season and we buy him out. Idk. He's not a great problem, but he's also not a fatal problem.
A couple notes
* There's little if any chance the organization had considered Cossa for the NHL this year. Maybe as a plug in here or there but not as a part of the day to day plan. Augustine is at least 2-3 years away from sniffing the NHL unless he absolutely dominates every puck thrown at him. He's just 19yo earlier this year, undersized for modern NHL goalies, and still playing in college. Tons of potential but he's also just surely not even a sparkle in the eye of our NHL staff unless they're looking at our prospects list in a column.
* Re: FAs, I noted it's likely a fwd given our current makeup. That said, we were obviously looking at Trouba, and the gustafsson and Lagesson signings do not overlap with the gaps signing a trouba would look to close. I am not fretting at all about perron and ghost leaving. I enjoyed them both but plenty of life beyond them, especially for the 7.5M in cap they're taking up in their new deals.
* Holl is a lot of things, but he's definitely not going to the AHL. We save limited funds by doing that, plus waiving him and sending to the AHL just would look like pretty poor treatment of a guy we signed for 3 years on day 1 of free agency last year and barely played last season. The only problem is that we don't really seem to want to use him. I actually think he could be serviceable as a bottom pair and PK guy, but I'd rather the roster spot go elsewhere.
> There's little if any chance the organization had considered Cossa for the NHL this year.
Which is why I said 4 goaltenders *not named Cossa or Augustine.* We currently have Husso, Lyon, Campbell, and Talbot all signed. Cossa will be in Grand Rapids, and Augustine will almost certainly be in East Lansing. Which means unless one of those other guys is going to Toledo, we're overstocked on netminders. If Husso still has a twingey leg, then he goes to Robidas island.
> Re: FAs, I noted it's likely a fwd given our current makeup.
Sweet, looks like Berggren, Kasper, or Danielson are on speed dial.
> Holl is a lot of things, but he's definitely not going to the AHL. We save limited funds by doing that, plus waiving him and sending to the AHL just would look like pretty poor treatment of a guy we signed for 3 years on day 1 of free agency last year and barely played last season.
Again, my point is that he was an error at the price point, but not a fatal one. There are plenty of ways that he can be handled, and the AHL, while unlikely, is one of them because of how poorly last year went for him. He's not as big of a problem as people seem to think he is though.
>Which is why I said 4 goaltenders *not named Cossa or Augustine
I think my point was that I'm not sure why they're even worth mentioning here.
>Sweet, looks like Berggren, Kasper, or Danielson are on speed dial.
Correct, that was the first bullet of my original comment...that even counting Berggren in the NHL, there are slots that Kasper, mazur, and Danielson are battling for. Not even necessarily speed dial for call ups, but actual NHL spots out of camp.
> I think my point was that I'm not sure why they're even worth mentioning here.
Because it's really five contracts, not four. Cossa fills a spot in GR, and that leaves four guys for three nets. But for me, it's obviously insurance in case of Husso.
> Correct, that was the first bullet of my original comment...that even counting Berggren in the NHL, there are slots that Kasper, mazur, and Danielson are battling for. Not even necessarily speed dial for call ups, but actual NHL spots out of camp.
Great, glad you sorted it out.
Yes...we have more than just NHL contracts. But the four worth noting here are 1-way SPCs for NHL players. Cossa is on an ELC, has never been in the NHL, isn't earmarked for it this year, and of course has no waivers or restrictions to his movement otherwise. Yes, we have more colors than the four sitting on our NHL off-season roster, but that can always be said. Sorry, I hope I'm not sounding like a jerk, I just genuinely don't understand the point you're trying to make in light of my original comment. That Cossa is also under contract?
Cossa accounts for a roster spot. He will only play for Grand Rapids and will be the starter. There is uncertainty around Husso's health, so they signed Campbell and Talbot to completely fill the starter and backup roles in Detroit and Grand Rapids for this season to ensure competent goaltending if Husso cannot play.
The only way I can dumb this down further is:
Husso: LTIR?
Talbot: Red Wings
Lyon: Red Wings
Cossa: Grand Rapids
Campbell: Grand Rapids
Thanks. With all due respect, you're just restating things that are already known/implied in the spirit of my original comment. I think that's the gap here. I mean I literally mentioned Campbell going to GR (or, frankly, that he could just simply get waived altogether, which I didn't mention specifically above).
Yes, they're all a part of the Husso health emergency plan. And just like last season I'd guess we're also still willing -if not actively trying - to move husso. Of course, sometimes has to be willing to take the chance (which, frankly, they won't be).
sorry i didnt know i was reading your blog mr friedman
It's less about moving Husso than it is accounting for his fragility. Which isn't at all what you "implied." If they were desperate to move him, they would have Walmaned him or bought him out.
I don't think a trade has the same urgency as free agency does. It could take time to materialize especially this one.
It seems trouba doesn't mind leaving the rangers, he doesn't want to leave the new York area for personal reasons. I'm sure it'll take time for him and his wife to figure out how to proceed.
I think getting a guy who doesn’t want to be here will affect the dressing room
Also, it seems rangers are not in the position to trade him anymore since most of the RHDs are off the market now. If they trade him, they need to find replacement as well.
I'm not so sure he doesn't want to be here, more that he doesn't want to leave NY. The wife situation seems to be the biggest sticking point, and I don't blame him for that.
Yes. That is why he doesn’t want to be here. He wants to stay in the NY area. Or wait until next summer, July 1 2025 when her residency is over.
I think he already put us on his NTC list this morning.
[https://www.spotrac.com/nhl/free-agents/\_/year/2024/status/available/position/d/sort/contract\_value](https://www.spotrac.com/nhl/free-agents/_/year/2024/status/available/position/d/sort/contract_value)
Justin Schultz is the one of the few every day RD available right now. He is coming off a 3 million contract from Seattle and he is 34. Kevin Shattenkirk is coming off a 1.2 million contract and is 35.
I don't know if either is a noticeable upgrade from Petry.
I agree in principle but asking a rookie to play his off side on a second pairing in the NHL is a lot. The alternative is Petry though, who is good in a third pairing role. It's just a hole that needs to be filled.
At the end of the season Petry looked good playing with Edvinsson. I'd feel safe enough seeing how they look together to start the season. It helps that Petry's been in our system for a year and seems to know to defer some to Ed.
I agree with that, him and Ed seemed to be fine as Ed keeps a more defensive play.
I'm not sure how worried I am as I haven't seen the team play together, with good chemistry it could work, but will be hard.
Who's buying a goalie for 2.2 who spent most of his current contract injured or putting up a sub-.900sv%? And who is paying for him with a second pairing right shot D?
Re-signing Kane was a major win. Idk what everyone was expecting. Definitely want nothing to do with most of the contracts handed out today. Stammer was a little disappointing but way she goes.
The media made it sound like we were in on him so naturally I was a little excited 😆 definitely some risk but we are probably better off. Idk who else that got signed today would you consider a 2nd line wing? We arguably got the best winger on the market.
Yup definitely do, but it’s also only the first day of the off-season. Didn’t do it through free agency but still can through trade. I’d be very surprised if the team looks like this when camp starts.
Way too many people forget we’ve had 6 top 17 picks in the last 4 drafts who haven’t become full time NHLers yet and that’s the real core of this team not some group of free agents
I’m with you but my gripe is if that’s the case, why are we wasting assets to dump salary cap and neglecting prospect development by signing bottom pair veterans? Just be patient and wait for our core to develop IMO.
I think the concern is the front offices attempt to basically avoid using prospects at all costs. Like sure we’ve made a lot of high picks that fans are excited about, but where do they fit into the roster when we keep adding more bottom pair and bottom 6 veterans instead of graduating the youngsters?
It's not avoiding them at all costs. Yzerman has repeatedly stated that if they don't think prospects are ready, they will defer to having vets and let the prospects have more time to develop.
When he did the big influx of rookies for the Lightning in 13-14 most were 22/23 including Johnson, Palat, Sustr, Barberio, Panik, Brown and Gudas. Killorn was also 23 and had 38 games of prior NHL experience. Kucherov was the only 20 year old of the rookies.
He's shown both with his time in Tampa and with Raymond/Seider, that when he feels they are ready, there will be opportunity to play. With how GR started last season, it was pretty obvious he was correct in his assessment that they weren't ready yet and vets would be needed.
Edvinsson looked like he was long overdue to be in a Wings sweater by the time he finally got called up. He looked ready in training camp, but instead we invested in Petry and Holl to ensure that the defensive lineup had no room for a youngster.
At this point, Yzerman has made too many mistakes with his FA moves and trades for me to have blind confidence in the method. Everybody tried to convince themselves that Holl and Petry were solid moves last year for the same purpose and in the end all it did was likely cost us games by not having the better player in Edvinsson up with the NHL team all season.
I think you have this mixed up a bit. Petry and Holl would be investments because Edvinsson was starting to look ready. They are both RHD vets that (in theory) should pair with Ed. But with the shoulder injury/surgery, Ed needed time to work back in. Which seems like it was the reason why they went with a short-term contract with Ghost.
Certainly wish there was better decision-making when building the D group. But also give some deference that they are patching some holes while the prospects develop. That being said the additions of Gustafsson and Lagesson raises some eyebrows. But I'd imagine both are expendable come training camp. At least ya hope.
wallinder is another guy who should be given a chance. I rather they fail with young guys than Holl or Petry. Utah is no longer Arizona where you can send shit contracts to rot. I don't see them making playoffs next year. No one has really gotten worse. Islanders and Washington may drop off but Jersey, Buffalo, Ottawa will move up
Ed was still 20 at the beginning of the season coming off shoulder surgery. I don't blame Yzerman for not expecting him to be ready to take a spot yet. I also don't really blame him for sticking with the vets until an injury, as we were having success through the year. It was obvious we were waiting for an injury to change things up, but we just remained healthy on D. Once a spot opened up, Ed took it at just 21. It's hard to act like we suppressed him for some abnormally long time.
Here's the thing, even without Ed, we still had plenty of defenseman without adding Holl *and* Petry, but we still took extra steps to clog up the defense. Had we not added both, then there would have been an opportunity to get Edvinsson in Detroit sooner instead of waiting to play roster musical chairs.
Same thing this offseason, there was no real need to add Gustaffson. Edvinsson/Chiarot/Maatta + a potential Johansson were more than enough to hold down the left side. If AlJo isn't ready, he can be the 4th LD while he gets up to speed. Outside of Edvinsson, they're all bottom pair guys at this point. Adding Gus didn't improve our defense. It *maybe* improved our 2nd PP unit, but how much of a difference is Gus going to be compared to say Edvinsson or Chiarot or Petry on that 2nd unit? Over the course of an entire season, it's not going to make a noticeable difference.
No thanks. I'd rather have suffered with Holl and had Edvinsson available. Petry over Holl is hardly a notable improvement. But Ed being on the roster was.
TIL there was another defenseman in the NHL a little over a decade ago named "Erik Gustafsson". I found out when I bought a rookie card of the wrong guy before looking back on it later and seeing the wrong birth year...
If it makes you feel any better, I was on the Wikipedia page thinking - Wow, this guy has had a really long career....
Before I realized that it was a totally different dude.
We didn't have fish until a bit ago, sprong seems gone, and veleno is still a rfa. I think we still need a depth guy. I agree our priorities are still another top 6 and a rhd, but I also think we need another depth scorer.
If I’m Marco Kasper, Nate Danielson, Carter Mazur, Albert Johansson, and Simon Edvinsson I’m foaming at the mouth and on the way to the gym to put in some serious work cuz I’d be motivated as shit after this 1st day of free agency.
There are spots wide open for taking and these kids are gonna come to play come training camp.
Idk I can see the opposite effect. You’ve been busting your ass trying to get to the NHL, finally see a window to make the team after the Wings had regularly crowded out prospects over the past couple years, and then today happens and these moves basically just scream to the prospects: “hey we don’t trust any of you to actually contribute so we added a bunch of short term vets to fill those spots instead”
What spots? We maybe have one forward spot to spare. We already have 8 dmen on the books. It’s probably gonna get even more crowded if the Trouba trade rumor comes together or we continue to add FAs which I’m sure we will.
There’s like 1 spot open lol. There’s no openings on defense, and there’s a 2nd line forward spot that doesn’t really fit any of our prospects. There’s a strong likelihood that we only have 1 forward out of Burgers, Mazur, and Kasper up, and Johansson looks destined to be a rotation piece with Maata/Petry.
Just looking at our current contracts, it seems like this cycle of Yzerman's build will cycle over in 2 years. That's the "re-evaluation point" where we either see our drafting come to fruition or hit the reset button.
Also the next 2 FA crops are projected to be a lot better
Guys like Marner, Draisaitl, Rantanen and McDavid are all expiring over that period
All are likely to re-sign with their teams but if one were to become available you want to remain flexible with your contracts
I don’t understand why people are so upset, for the last two years people complained non stop about the free agency signings being too much aav and too much term. Now this free agency goes wild with the term and aav and people are complaining we didn’t sign one of those contracts. I’m legitimately confused as to what people want Steve to do
I feel like the mistakes of the past couple years are what led to the disappoint of this offseason. We’re paying for those errors now, at a point when it would have been crucial to make some significant additions. Instead of splurging $10M on a Stamkos signing to complete our 2nd line and using a Kasper and a Johansson to fill out the roster, we have Copp and Chiarot taking up $10M and key roster spots.
Nailed it, avoiding objectively awful deals like Holl’s puts us in a place where we don’t have to dump Walman with draft capital.
I’m more just confused why we’re so desperate to dump and maximize cap space to begin with, it’s not like we’re contenders. I’m just having a hard time figuring out whether we’re still trying to rebuild or if we feel like our current prospect pool can get us into contention.
> I’m more just confused why we’re so desperate to dump and maximize cap space to begin with, it’s not like we’re contenders. I’m just having a hard time figuring out whether we’re still trying to rebuild or if we feel like our current prospect pool can get us into contention.
I'm with you. Feels like a lot of steps sideways but no real progress. And by continuing to put veterans in the path of our prospects, it kinda blocks out the light at the end of the tunnel.
Yes! Nobody wants to be stuck in purgatory. I wish we let at least one prospect sink or swim in the NHL all of last year, it feels like Ed is overripe and we probably tanked Berggren’s confidence and trade value.
> I wish we let at least one prospect sink or swim in the NHL
It's not even about just throwing them to the sharks. There's not even an opportunity if they succeed in training camp. Edvinsson looked ready last year but got sent down for 2/3 of the year because there simply wasn't any room and he was waiver eligible so he got screwed. If we simply didn't sign Holl *OR* didn't trade for Petry, Edvinsson isn't restricted to GR until an injury opens a spot.
I see the same thing happening again this year with Gus. Our left side now is Edvinsson, Chiarot, Maatta, Gus and Johansson. Like was it the end of the world if our bottom pair was just a bad rookie in AlJo with Chiarot/Maatta/Petry? Is that really that much worse than Gus and one of those guys?
I don't understand the push to maintain the same level of competitiveness when that level of competitiveness still fell very short of accomplishing anything meaningful.
People are reactionary and can only react to what they see currently. People are not econs (econs being the behavioral economic definition of a rational, analytical reflective and deliberate person).
The "why can't we criticize Yzerman?!" crowd needs to just stop. Not everything in the world needs to be one side or the other. No one here thinks that Yzerman can do no wrong. Nobody thinks the Holl or Petry contracts were great. There is a large area between "Yzerman can do no wrong" and "everything he does is wrong".
I mostly see a lot of well thought out answers trying to understand the moves we are making on one side and a lot of screeching and criticizing using hindsight on the other.
As a bottom dweller you never get the best FA deals and we did the best we could trying to become a better team. Now it’s time to cycle out some of the lesser deals we made and hopefully start to see the prospects. I don’t mind if people are just happy to complain but put some thought behind it. What would you have done differently, just suck for the last 5 years? It’s a strategy some take go watch one of those teams.
I totally understand. I guess I just recoil every time I hear doomers say they "aren't allowed to criticize Yzerman". It reeks of "complaining to just complain". I imagine it is many times worse on X or Facebook but it is a bummer when it pops up in our relatively positive subreddit group.
Outside of the draft, his success rate on trades and in free agency is pretty hit and miss. A lot of the signings we’re happy with today wouldn’t even be necessary if prior moves hadn’t been misses. Like Talbot for example. Great value signing on a guy who improves our goaltending. But it’s only necessary because we’ve missed on every other goaltending fix we’ve tried. And yet again, there’s no guarantees that Talbot will actually be much better behind this defense, we’re still playing a little bit of roulette hoping that he pans out.
I think we're going to have to do way better next season to keep him.
I hope we don't play games.
We'll be paying him 2.5m (hopefully) we'll probably have to play him at another 6.5-7.5M to keep him around.
I thought you literally meant NHL games. So I was really confused.
Frankly I love Kane and if he still has it. I’m giving him whatever he wants to stay.
I hope he makes his full 6.5 million.
How the bonuses work the 2.5M gets paid out of the 25-26 cap. At the end of the day we're probably going to be paying him close to 10M if we want to keep him. 2.5 from the previous season bonus + his salary.
Dude took a hell of a pay cut to stay here so it's only fair to pay him a fair price next year.
Really happy that we didn’t hand out term. The contracts that were handed out today were just insane.
Next year has an incredible free agent class as of right now, barring any resigning.
2025 FA Class
Tavares, Marner, Draisaitl, Rantanen, Crosby, Hedman, Johansen, Kuznetsov, Orlov, Ekblad, Provorov, Boeser, Marchand, Ehlers, Pionk, Lindell, Buchnevich, Mangiapane, Konecny, Kuzmenko, Theodore
The goalies are just as good
Shesterkin, Ullmark, Saros, Lehner, Hill, Andersen, Georgiev
Now I know a lot of these guys will probably resign but I just think if there’s a year to go after someone, next year has a lot better options than what was on the table this year.
100% agree, this was the year to stand pat and let the kids play. Even if that means taking a step back next year it’s still the best play for the long term
##**RED WINGS FREE AGENCY SIGNINGS** Player|Age|Pos|From|To|Term|AAV|Notes :-|:-|:-|:-|:-|:-|:-|:- Patrick Kane|35|RW|DET|DET|1|$4M|*NTC, $2M incentives William Lagesson|28|D|ANA|DET|1|$775k| Cam Talbot|36|G|LAK|DET|2|$2.5M| Sheldon Dries|30|C|VAN|DET|2|$775k| Erik Gustafsson|32|LD|NYR|DET|2|$2M| Jack Campbell|32|G|EDM|DET|1|$775k| Christian Fischer|27|RW|DET|DET|1|$1.125M| ##**RED WINGS UNRESTRICTED FREE AGENTS** Player|Age|From|To|Term|AAV :-|:-|:-|:-|:-|:-|:-|:- David Perron|36|DET|OTT|2|$4M| Shayne Gostisbehere|31|DET|CAR|3|$3.2M| Daniel Sprong|27|DET|||| James Reimer|36|DET|||| Zach Aston-Reese|29|DET|VGK|1|$775k| Austin Czarnik|31|DET|||| Matt Luff|27|DET|||| Taro Hirose|28|DET|||| Jared McIsaac|24|DET|||| John Lethemon|27|DET|||| Michael Hutchinson|34|DET|||| ##**RED WINGS RESTRICTED FREE AGENTS** Player|Age|From|To|Term|AAV :-|:-|:-|:-|:-|:-|:-|:- Moritz Seider|22|DET|||| Joseph Veleno|23|DET|||| Lucas Raymond|21|DET|||| Jonatan Berggren|23|DET||||
Ghost, Sprong, Walman, Bert, Hronek, ect. These guys had some offense, but all were at times defensive liabilities, and on the small side other than Bert. (How this draft went, teams are all making a shift.. going for big players. 5 players who were 6"7 were drafted. More than the amount of players under 5'11). The writing is on the wall with our recent hard to play against, 200 ft draft picks. Along with Stevie Y telling us that we want to get better defensively. Without draft lottery luck, we need to build a team like Florida, the Blues cup team, and to a lesser extent Tampa's cup teams. Defensively sound 200 ft teams, with forecheckers, that can still score some goals. Steve had a window in mind (2 years from now) and rolled the dice on some short term free agent signings until then, for stop gaps.Throw them at the wall and see what sticks. Some hit, some missed. But they are short term stop gaps until our #1 prospect pool is ready in 2 years, so who cares. I would argue that Chiarot although at first looked like a miss, played great last year. We are going to have a team with Kaspers, MBN, Mazurs, Big mean Ed and Mo, Chiarot, Fischer and Ras crashing the net.. guys tough to play against, forechecking, defending. With a little pure skill thrown in there with ASP, Danielson(still 200 ft), Larkin, Raymond, ADB, Berg if he stays, Kane, ect thrown in. Yzerman saw the overpays with too much term today. That does not line up with his window, and smartly is going to make trades this year instead. With only 2 years to go I see Kasper, Mazur, Ed, Aljo, getting their rookie years in this year. Preparing us to be ready for the next wave with Danielson, then ASP, MBN, ect..when Stevie starts pulling the trigger/makes the jump to a contender. Then we will be laughing. With a team similar to Florida. All players forechecking/playing 200 feet, mixed with some drafted skill and goals. A few skilled Vets like Larkin and ADB, & Ray and Mo leading the way. And hopefully Cossa and Augustine as an amazing tandem! We will be competing then, while some other teams are reeling from the bad F.A. contracts signed today, causing them trouble. And have a young core to compete for multiple cups..who is hard to play against, 200 ft, forechecking like Florida! Trust the Yzerplan!
Florida really has shown that anything is possible as long as you have the right buy-in from the players. It seems like they all just accepted to take dips in production just to have a more complete team game and it paid off for them. I mean nothing really stood out about Florida and the way they won, no real dynamic scorer or point producer, no crazy goaltender (Bob let in a lot of soft ones in that final series vs Edmonton) and no smal, flashy offensive Cale Makar esque defensmen that everyone drools about but no it was steady as they come Forsling who got the job done.
i like it. my take on the FA is similiar: 1. Steves not done yet. He kinda has to find a RD unless someone (ALJO?) can switch sides. 2. He absolutely wants better D. Hence Ghost and sprong out Edmunson in Fisher back. 3. Next year is a much better FA class then this one. if you're gonna go big wait for a big fish 4. Real growth comes from within (thanks Buddha). The prospects need to be where most of our improvement comes from. 5. Its not out of the question that we are better this year. If nothing else we should be a better skating team with the youngins.
Joe Snively... Sounds made up.
Well time to sleep. Steve really pissed off the fan base yet again it seems after reading and listening to stuff all day. Poor guy cant win with this less than stellar fan base.
I'm out the loop now. Are these good signings? Are they moving us forward or maintaining the status quo?
They’re not overly sensational but they improve the team while leaving space for the young guys to work their way in
All depth signings minus Kane. I guess the upshot here is we have a lot of cap space to work with now.
There will be at most 5m to work with.
We are currently 21.5 million below the cap........
Seider and Raymond will take 15-16m.
Good signings in my eyes, but definitely more status quo than moving forward. There probably wasn't much out there that could genuinely move us forward with the money bookmarked for Seider and Raymond needing to be saved.
kane talbot gustafsson, fischer yes. the others meh.
Man it sure looks like some teams spent too much and will be stuck needing to offload someone. Off the top of my head Colorado and Seattle both seem kind of screwed and tight wonder what others still have some key players to sign that could be looking to deal with
The Wings not being the team to give some of those contracts is a massive win in my book. 6 years for a 34 year old Tanev, $8M x 4 years for a washed up Stamkos, $5M x 6 years for Zadorov, $5.5M for Dumba, $6.25M x 7 years for Chandler Stephenson. I'm glad those contacts are all on other teams
I mean, we don’t have to call Stamkos washed up because he didn’t sign with us. He signed a deal that he is worth and hasn’t shown much sign of slowing down at this point.
We don't have to call him washed up because he didn't sign with us, he's not good at driving play anymore and basically is a PP merchant. Maybe that's different in Nashville, but I think they're going to regret signing him that long for that much.
Not entirely true, he's legitimately terrible 5 on 5 now. His possession and play-driving metrics are awful. He's a PP merchant now. This sub isn't capable of looking at anything but raw point totals though lmao, not even sure why any sort of nuanced discussion is attempted RemindMe! 1 year after Stamkos no longer has Kucherov feeding him PP points
RemindMe! 9 months I want to see if he’s right
40 goals and 40 assists washed up? Man you set the bar high . If we can overpay for average players like Copp and Compher then why not overpay for a hall of famer ?
Yes he is washed up. Not everything is about raw points. Look up some advanced metrics and you'll see.
Yes I’m sure what when the game is tied at 1 you need a goal. I don’t care about advanced metrics.
Half his production was on the power play with Kucherov feeding him the puck. He’s no longer playing as a center much these days and doesn’t drive even strength play anymore, and defensively, he’s not good at all. If he’s not washed up, then he’s on his way to getting there.
I don't want to pay him 8 mil a year... however Him and Kane on a power play could've been electric and we all know it
I don’t disagree. He would’ve been a nice luxury to have on the PP. But that’s all he would have been, a luxury. What this team really needs to get better at is even strength play, and Stamkos wouldn’t have moved that needle for us.
Really not sure what the strategy is here. 4 goalies and a half dozen left defensemen?
Campbell is more or less AHL fodder Husso, we can't really reliably expect him to play more than like 10 games with his injuries Which leaves Lyon and Talbot
Joe Snively signed! Glad I get to wake up to more complaints about contracts that mean nothing to the big club.
Someday you can tell your grandchildren where you were the day we signed Snidely Whiplash...Joe Snively.
Are these contracts cause we are probably moving youth up?
Hopefully we will but GR is also losing some veteran non prospect players
I'm glad we signed Fischer most memorable moment for me was the greasy 120% effort laying on the ice goal. He was determined to score there I think we won the game I hope so anyways.
My most memorable moment was his interview with Trevor. “Sorry Mom.”
Completely forgot Laine was out there looking to be traded
He can't be traded until he clears the assistance program. I'd be cool with us taking a prove it shot at him.
Oh shit, for some reason I thought we was already in and out of the PA program. Yeah, I think he could be a good addition
Laine is literally exactly what we need. I think he’d be a 40 goal scorer with Kane
Uh, what Laine was seven years ago is what we need. I'm really not sure he's that guy any more.
Even the down years he's had he's still been on pace for 35+ goals. I really think he could help our team, especially on the powerplay. Not to mention he was experimenting with playing center in Columbus
I'd take a flier ngl
I would too. What do you think the price is?
I'd want to send Fabbri if we're being honest. So him and a draft pick
I'd for sure do that
If no salary retention probs a 2nd rounder
Fabbri, Husso, and Petry are all off the books next summer, right? That is around 9M to work with Holl might be gone too? 12M in cap space to swing at a big fish?
Supposed to be an excellent free agent class next year as well.
Yamamoto buyout of $533k off the books after this season too
Holl’s contract is two more years, but obviously there’s no guarantee that he is here the full term. Certainly nice to have those deals coming off of the books then though.
Yea and hopefully Oilers fumble Drai and the Wings scoop him up.
Alright after free agency here are the lines I drafted up: DeBrincat Larkin Raymond Kane Compher Veleno Veleno Veleno Veleno Berggren Rasmussen Petry Chiarot Seider Maatta Holl (Ed in GR) Johansson Veleno Then for goalies we have 1A Husso and 1B Veleno. Thoughts?
Looks good but where's veleno?
I took me a second to realize this was sarcasm
Mostly a joke because Veleno I feel has played every position due to injuries we got these past few seasons
Also he isn’t signed yet
I'm really hoping that Dan Campbell can talk to Coach Veleno and give him some tips.
I want the prospects to get a shot in the big league but I also want Stevie to sign some big names and I also want him not to spend too much money on vets and I also want to make the playoffs so I think I’m part of the problem.
I am right there with you. I think it is time for the youth to get their shot, but that means I can't be pissed if they don't pan out and we whiff on the playoffs due to "growing pains." I am not sure I am that enlightened and have that much of a handle on my inner peace.
So we've got roughly 21M in cap space, with Seider, Raymond, Veleno, and Berggren qualified but unsigned. If we assume worst case 16M for Mo and Raymond, we've got 5M for Berg and Veleno. The latter two aren't going to cost more than 2.5M. That leaves us with 2.5M on the conservative side. Coincidentally, that 2.5M is what we'd owe Kaner next season in performance bonuses, but that's irrelevant for now. We're currently at 10 Forwards if Veleno and Raymond sign, make it 11 with Berggren if we're getting frisky. Since we'll likely carry at least 12-13 forwards, I'm guessing the idea is one/some of: * Mazur, Danielson, and Kasper (amongst others) are probably battling for a couple of spots. * We may still look to being in an additional FA this off-season. I'd like to see a little more solidity in our top 6, but we'll see how the rest of FA and camp shake out. * Four goalies in the roster won't stick. Even if Campbell ultimately goes to GR, still seems like we're desperate to move husso somehow. * 8 D, including Holl and lagesson and Edvinsson leaves me thinking Ed is basically an expected lock for regular time. Imagine lagesson isn't expected to play full time but no idea what we plan to do with Holl. Guessing we've tried to move him but that contract is full-yikes. The Holl and Husso deals are just rough to stomach. That 8M+ could do so much for us otherwise... Sigh. Still feels like we've got another move in us this week, though .
1. Spending to cap for our RFAs isn't actually that bad since the cap will go up. And ideally, they'll be high caliber players so we won't necessarily need Kane again. 2. Husso seems destined for LTIR if we're going to roll with four goalies not named Cossa and Augustine. To me, that seems like the case given his abortive attempts to return from injury. 3. Edvinsson seems a lock for sure, but also don't forget all this talk about Al Johansson getting every possible look in training camp. 4. I'm not sure what other FAs we'd be looking for. I'd rather clean out Grand Rapids of our top prospects and roll the dice on them over fretting about Gostisbehere leaving or the corpse of David Perron joining a terrible Senators team. 5. Holl had a bad year and his cap really stings, but running it back this year with him trying to prove his value for a spot over a rookie is a good thing. It might convince him to waive his clauses and send him to San Jose or Chicago or something. Or, he goes to Grand Rapids and regains some confidence. Or we get him through another season and we buy him out. Idk. He's not a great problem, but he's also not a fatal problem.
A couple notes * There's little if any chance the organization had considered Cossa for the NHL this year. Maybe as a plug in here or there but not as a part of the day to day plan. Augustine is at least 2-3 years away from sniffing the NHL unless he absolutely dominates every puck thrown at him. He's just 19yo earlier this year, undersized for modern NHL goalies, and still playing in college. Tons of potential but he's also just surely not even a sparkle in the eye of our NHL staff unless they're looking at our prospects list in a column. * Re: FAs, I noted it's likely a fwd given our current makeup. That said, we were obviously looking at Trouba, and the gustafsson and Lagesson signings do not overlap with the gaps signing a trouba would look to close. I am not fretting at all about perron and ghost leaving. I enjoyed them both but plenty of life beyond them, especially for the 7.5M in cap they're taking up in their new deals. * Holl is a lot of things, but he's definitely not going to the AHL. We save limited funds by doing that, plus waiving him and sending to the AHL just would look like pretty poor treatment of a guy we signed for 3 years on day 1 of free agency last year and barely played last season. The only problem is that we don't really seem to want to use him. I actually think he could be serviceable as a bottom pair and PK guy, but I'd rather the roster spot go elsewhere.
> There's little if any chance the organization had considered Cossa for the NHL this year. Which is why I said 4 goaltenders *not named Cossa or Augustine.* We currently have Husso, Lyon, Campbell, and Talbot all signed. Cossa will be in Grand Rapids, and Augustine will almost certainly be in East Lansing. Which means unless one of those other guys is going to Toledo, we're overstocked on netminders. If Husso still has a twingey leg, then he goes to Robidas island. > Re: FAs, I noted it's likely a fwd given our current makeup. Sweet, looks like Berggren, Kasper, or Danielson are on speed dial. > Holl is a lot of things, but he's definitely not going to the AHL. We save limited funds by doing that, plus waiving him and sending to the AHL just would look like pretty poor treatment of a guy we signed for 3 years on day 1 of free agency last year and barely played last season. Again, my point is that he was an error at the price point, but not a fatal one. There are plenty of ways that he can be handled, and the AHL, while unlikely, is one of them because of how poorly last year went for him. He's not as big of a problem as people seem to think he is though.
>Which is why I said 4 goaltenders *not named Cossa or Augustine I think my point was that I'm not sure why they're even worth mentioning here. >Sweet, looks like Berggren, Kasper, or Danielson are on speed dial. Correct, that was the first bullet of my original comment...that even counting Berggren in the NHL, there are slots that Kasper, mazur, and Danielson are battling for. Not even necessarily speed dial for call ups, but actual NHL spots out of camp.
> I think my point was that I'm not sure why they're even worth mentioning here. Because it's really five contracts, not four. Cossa fills a spot in GR, and that leaves four guys for three nets. But for me, it's obviously insurance in case of Husso. > Correct, that was the first bullet of my original comment...that even counting Berggren in the NHL, there are slots that Kasper, mazur, and Danielson are battling for. Not even necessarily speed dial for call ups, but actual NHL spots out of camp. Great, glad you sorted it out.
Yes...we have more than just NHL contracts. But the four worth noting here are 1-way SPCs for NHL players. Cossa is on an ELC, has never been in the NHL, isn't earmarked for it this year, and of course has no waivers or restrictions to his movement otherwise. Yes, we have more colors than the four sitting on our NHL off-season roster, but that can always be said. Sorry, I hope I'm not sounding like a jerk, I just genuinely don't understand the point you're trying to make in light of my original comment. That Cossa is also under contract?
Cossa accounts for a roster spot. He will only play for Grand Rapids and will be the starter. There is uncertainty around Husso's health, so they signed Campbell and Talbot to completely fill the starter and backup roles in Detroit and Grand Rapids for this season to ensure competent goaltending if Husso cannot play. The only way I can dumb this down further is: Husso: LTIR? Talbot: Red Wings Lyon: Red Wings Cossa: Grand Rapids Campbell: Grand Rapids
Thanks. With all due respect, you're just restating things that are already known/implied in the spirit of my original comment. I think that's the gap here. I mean I literally mentioned Campbell going to GR (or, frankly, that he could just simply get waived altogether, which I didn't mention specifically above). Yes, they're all a part of the Husso health emergency plan. And just like last season I'd guess we're also still willing -if not actively trying - to move husso. Of course, sometimes has to be willing to take the chance (which, frankly, they won't be).
sorry i didnt know i was reading your blog mr friedman It's less about moving Husso than it is accounting for his fragility. Which isn't at all what you "implied." If they were desperate to move him, they would have Walmaned him or bought him out.
Holl was actually a Plus defender
He was also a healthy scratch for a ton of the season. Kind of a weird thing that needs to be reconciled.
I'm afraid to ask at this point... is the Trouba trade not happening now? Maybe lack of interest soured Yzerman's appetite?
I don't think a trade has the same urgency as free agency does. It could take time to materialize especially this one. It seems trouba doesn't mind leaving the rangers, he doesn't want to leave the new York area for personal reasons. I'm sure it'll take time for him and his wife to figure out how to proceed.
I think getting a guy who doesn’t want to be here will affect the dressing room Also, it seems rangers are not in the position to trade him anymore since most of the RHDs are off the market now. If they trade him, they need to find replacement as well.
I'm not so sure he doesn't want to be here, more that he doesn't want to leave NY. The wife situation seems to be the biggest sticking point, and I don't blame him for that.
Yes. That is why he doesn’t want to be here. He wants to stay in the NY area. Or wait until next summer, July 1 2025 when her residency is over. I think he already put us on his NTC list this morning.
I think taresenko would be a good pick up for a 1 year deal to slot into the 2nd line
I agree But someone said he bought a house in Florida and might just go back to panthers on the cheap
Could be an option for a Tampa Bay team without Stamkos.
Who can we even get as a right handed d man now? That's my biggest concern now
[https://www.spotrac.com/nhl/free-agents/\_/year/2024/status/available/position/d/sort/contract\_value](https://www.spotrac.com/nhl/free-agents/_/year/2024/status/available/position/d/sort/contract_value) Justin Schultz is the one of the few every day RD available right now. He is coming off a 3 million contract from Seattle and he is 34. Kevin Shattenkirk is coming off a 1.2 million contract and is 35. I don't know if either is a noticeable upgrade from Petry.
That is the problem. Both of these are old vets that might work on the bottom pair
Johansson used to play that position in Sweden. Man I feel like these "kids" are old enough to step up now.
I agree in principle but asking a rookie to play his off side on a second pairing in the NHL is a lot. The alternative is Petry though, who is good in a third pairing role. It's just a hole that needs to be filled.
At the end of the season Petry looked good playing with Edvinsson. I'd feel safe enough seeing how they look together to start the season. It helps that Petry's been in our system for a year and seems to know to defer some to Ed.
I agree with that, him and Ed seemed to be fine as Ed keeps a more defensive play. I'm not sure how worried I am as I haven't seen the team play together, with good chemistry it could work, but will be hard.
We might just roll with what we have and see where we are by Christmas 🎄. Then plan for some moves if needed
We need the second pair guy I don’t think Johansson is playing on the second pair Maybe they will bump gust to the second pair for the Time being
I can only see it coming via trade. Retain a ton on Husso and add a 2nd for some RHD
Who's buying a goalie for 2.2 who spent most of his current contract injured or putting up a sub-.900sv%? And who is paying for him with a second pairing right shot D?
Maybe wait until trade deadline I don’t see anything possible on the horizon
What an odd free agency lol
Re-signing Kane was a major win. Idk what everyone was expecting. Definitely want nothing to do with most of the contracts handed out today. Stammer was a little disappointing but way she goes.
I didn’t necessarily want stamkos after we signed Kane. Just someone to play second line wing.
The media made it sound like we were in on him so naturally I was a little excited 😆 definitely some risk but we are probably better off. Idk who else that got signed today would you consider a 2nd line wing? We arguably got the best winger on the market.
Yeah I am concerned, we need a 2 wing and a 2 RD
Yup definitely do, but it’s also only the first day of the off-season. Didn’t do it through free agency but still can through trade. I’d be very surprised if the team looks like this when camp starts.
Top 3-5 offensive players available on the market and we got him for a year and 4M + performance bonuses. Absolute bang on deal.
40 goal season for larkin Is what I want for the man or higher
If larks was fired up last year bro is gonna be molten lava this year
No way the end of that year didn't fire them all up. I'm sure they all have a lot of motivation
Antti Tuomisto YOU are a second pair RHD!
Niklas Kronwall, YOU are a second pair RHD!
If Larkin and Kane maintain their production from this year, the last time we had two ~Point per game players in a full season was 08-09
Raymond could be a point per game guy this coming season
That would be incredible! If the three of them went 70+ it would be the first time with three players over 70 pts since that same year.
My god - that alone would make me happy next season as a fan
He was point per game by the final quarter of the season
I heard our young guys stopped growing after 2 years. /s
Yea he was pretty much point per game at the final stretch of the season
So we’ve kicked the tires on Trouba and Ekblad Nothing (so far) has come out of it Would like to see a reliable number 2 RHD added
Where were the reports about Ekblad? I never saw them beyond reddit comments.
Was mentioned by Pagnotta on the NHL network this morning.
One of the reporters on NHL network’s coverage said during their broadcast we were in on him
I would like this and also hate it because it would mean AlJo is headed for waivers unless we can dump Holl or Petry
Nashville probably needs to shuffle money maybe we can kick some tires there
Stevie turned his fucking phone off
Way too many people forget we’ve had 6 top 17 picks in the last 4 drafts who haven’t become full time NHLers yet and that’s the real core of this team not some group of free agents
I’m with you but my gripe is if that’s the case, why are we wasting assets to dump salary cap and neglecting prospect development by signing bottom pair veterans? Just be patient and wait for our core to develop IMO.
How can you call it a core when they haven’t shown they can produce yet. That’s not a core
exactly. the same was said about Mantha, Zadina, Valeno
I think the concern is the front offices attempt to basically avoid using prospects at all costs. Like sure we’ve made a lot of high picks that fans are excited about, but where do they fit into the roster when we keep adding more bottom pair and bottom 6 veterans instead of graduating the youngsters?
It's not avoiding them at all costs. Yzerman has repeatedly stated that if they don't think prospects are ready, they will defer to having vets and let the prospects have more time to develop. When he did the big influx of rookies for the Lightning in 13-14 most were 22/23 including Johnson, Palat, Sustr, Barberio, Panik, Brown and Gudas. Killorn was also 23 and had 38 games of prior NHL experience. Kucherov was the only 20 year old of the rookies. He's shown both with his time in Tampa and with Raymond/Seider, that when he feels they are ready, there will be opportunity to play. With how GR started last season, it was pretty obvious he was correct in his assessment that they weren't ready yet and vets would be needed.
Which is why can we can feel confident that once we see them they will be more likely to contribute.
Edvinsson looked like he was long overdue to be in a Wings sweater by the time he finally got called up. He looked ready in training camp, but instead we invested in Petry and Holl to ensure that the defensive lineup had no room for a youngster. At this point, Yzerman has made too many mistakes with his FA moves and trades for me to have blind confidence in the method. Everybody tried to convince themselves that Holl and Petry were solid moves last year for the same purpose and in the end all it did was likely cost us games by not having the better player in Edvinsson up with the NHL team all season.
I think you have this mixed up a bit. Petry and Holl would be investments because Edvinsson was starting to look ready. They are both RHD vets that (in theory) should pair with Ed. But with the shoulder injury/surgery, Ed needed time to work back in. Which seems like it was the reason why they went with a short-term contract with Ghost. Certainly wish there was better decision-making when building the D group. But also give some deference that they are patching some holes while the prospects develop. That being said the additions of Gustafsson and Lagesson raises some eyebrows. But I'd imagine both are expendable come training camp. At least ya hope.
>Petry and Holl would be investments Brother. No.
wallinder is another guy who should be given a chance. I rather they fail with young guys than Holl or Petry. Utah is no longer Arizona where you can send shit contracts to rot. I don't see them making playoffs next year. No one has really gotten worse. Islanders and Washington may drop off but Jersey, Buffalo, Ottawa will move up
Ed was still 20 at the beginning of the season coming off shoulder surgery. I don't blame Yzerman for not expecting him to be ready to take a spot yet. I also don't really blame him for sticking with the vets until an injury, as we were having success through the year. It was obvious we were waiting for an injury to change things up, but we just remained healthy on D. Once a spot opened up, Ed took it at just 21. It's hard to act like we suppressed him for some abnormally long time.
Here's the thing, even without Ed, we still had plenty of defenseman without adding Holl *and* Petry, but we still took extra steps to clog up the defense. Had we not added both, then there would have been an opportunity to get Edvinsson in Detroit sooner instead of waiting to play roster musical chairs. Same thing this offseason, there was no real need to add Gustaffson. Edvinsson/Chiarot/Maatta + a potential Johansson were more than enough to hold down the left side. If AlJo isn't ready, he can be the 4th LD while he gets up to speed. Outside of Edvinsson, they're all bottom pair guys at this point. Adding Gus didn't improve our defense. It *maybe* improved our 2nd PP unit, but how much of a difference is Gus going to be compared to say Edvinsson or Chiarot or Petry on that 2nd unit? Over the course of an entire season, it's not going to make a noticeable difference.
He signed holl then was basically given petry is what happened lol
He could have said no. It would have hurt nothing but helped a lot.
I mean, good thing he didn’t. He was better than holl lol. He just shouldn’t have signed holl
No thanks. I'd rather have suffered with Holl and had Edvinsson available. Petry over Holl is hardly a notable improvement. But Ed being on the roster was.
Its clear this team is really relying on our youngsters progressing. I want to see them win so bad
TIL there was another defenseman in the NHL a little over a decade ago named "Erik Gustafsson". I found out when I bought a rookie card of the wrong guy before looking back on it later and seeing the wrong birth year...
If it makes you feel any better, I was on the Wikipedia page thinking - Wow, this guy has had a really long career.... Before I realized that it was a totally different dude.
I’m more happy with what Steve *didnt* do than what he did do if I had to have any takeaway from free agency season.
Well think of it this way: if there are no major signings, at least we don't sign a Justin Holl or Andrew Copp again
Copp might end up as a good contract in today’s market
I think if the Copp Moose Fish line is good it makes up for the fact of his dollar. Just a weird weight distribution but it’s ok
Ya if you think of it as like an 10M line total it’s not as bad
At least Copp can play in all situations and that line works great
A lot of Andrew Copps signed today
Indeed. And glad that we weren't the ones this year. Perron for $4 million for two years....woof. I like the guy, but woof.
See janmark went for 1.45m? Seems like that wouldve been a decent depth player for us
I’m sure this will be a very unpopular opinion, but I would take Janmark over Fischer any day.
Not unpopular for me at all. I loved Janmark in the playoffs.
We have depth players including prospects We need another top 6, and a second pair RHD
We didn't have fish until a bit ago, sprong seems gone, and veleno is still a rfa. I think we still need a depth guy. I agree our priorities are still another top 6 and a rhd, but I also think we need another depth scorer.
If I’m Marco Kasper, Nate Danielson, Carter Mazur, Albert Johansson, and Simon Edvinsson I’m foaming at the mouth and on the way to the gym to put in some serious work cuz I’d be motivated as shit after this 1st day of free agency. There are spots wide open for taking and these kids are gonna come to play come training camp.
Idk I can see the opposite effect. You’ve been busting your ass trying to get to the NHL, finally see a window to make the team after the Wings had regularly crowded out prospects over the past couple years, and then today happens and these moves basically just scream to the prospects: “hey we don’t trust any of you to actually contribute so we added a bunch of short term vets to fill those spots instead”
The guy is talking about the several completely open spots still available. Please I implore some of you to once in your life use your head.
What spots? We maybe have one forward spot to spare. We already have 8 dmen on the books. It’s probably gonna get even more crowded if the Trouba trade rumor comes together or we continue to add FAs which I’m sure we will.
There’s like 1 spot open lol. There’s no openings on defense, and there’s a 2nd line forward spot that doesn’t really fit any of our prospects. There’s a strong likelihood that we only have 1 forward out of Burgers, Mazur, and Kasper up, and Johansson looks destined to be a rotation piece with Maata/Petry.
Yep. If nothing new gets added (minus maybe a heaping helping of 4th line JFV), you'd think one of them boys should be able to grab a spot.
berggren possibly too
Bergy is gonna have to pass through waivers with his new deal so he either makes the team or he’s gone
Just looking at our current contracts, it seems like this cycle of Yzerman's build will cycle over in 2 years. That's the "re-evaluation point" where we either see our drafting come to fruition or hit the reset button.
Also the next 2 FA crops are projected to be a lot better Guys like Marner, Draisaitl, Rantanen and McDavid are all expiring over that period All are likely to re-sign with their teams but if one were to become available you want to remain flexible with your contracts
I’m going to ride the Adrian Kempe bus all the way to the end of the earth. That type of acquisition is massive to contend for a cup run.
Marner or Draisaitl, you say?
I don’t understand why people are so upset, for the last two years people complained non stop about the free agency signings being too much aav and too much term. Now this free agency goes wild with the term and aav and people are complaining we didn’t sign one of those contracts. I’m legitimately confused as to what people want Steve to do
I feel like the mistakes of the past couple years are what led to the disappoint of this offseason. We’re paying for those errors now, at a point when it would have been crucial to make some significant additions. Instead of splurging $10M on a Stamkos signing to complete our 2nd line and using a Kasper and a Johansson to fill out the roster, we have Copp and Chiarot taking up $10M and key roster spots.
Nailed it, avoiding objectively awful deals like Holl’s puts us in a place where we don’t have to dump Walman with draft capital. I’m more just confused why we’re so desperate to dump and maximize cap space to begin with, it’s not like we’re contenders. I’m just having a hard time figuring out whether we’re still trying to rebuild or if we feel like our current prospect pool can get us into contention.
> I’m more just confused why we’re so desperate to dump and maximize cap space to begin with, it’s not like we’re contenders. I’m just having a hard time figuring out whether we’re still trying to rebuild or if we feel like our current prospect pool can get us into contention. I'm with you. Feels like a lot of steps sideways but no real progress. And by continuing to put veterans in the path of our prospects, it kinda blocks out the light at the end of the tunnel.
Yes! Nobody wants to be stuck in purgatory. I wish we let at least one prospect sink or swim in the NHL all of last year, it feels like Ed is overripe and we probably tanked Berggren’s confidence and trade value.
> I wish we let at least one prospect sink or swim in the NHL It's not even about just throwing them to the sharks. There's not even an opportunity if they succeed in training camp. Edvinsson looked ready last year but got sent down for 2/3 of the year because there simply wasn't any room and he was waiver eligible so he got screwed. If we simply didn't sign Holl *OR* didn't trade for Petry, Edvinsson isn't restricted to GR until an injury opens a spot. I see the same thing happening again this year with Gus. Our left side now is Edvinsson, Chiarot, Maatta, Gus and Johansson. Like was it the end of the world if our bottom pair was just a bad rookie in AlJo with Chiarot/Maatta/Petry? Is that really that much worse than Gus and one of those guys? I don't understand the push to maintain the same level of competitiveness when that level of competitiveness still fell very short of accomplishing anything meaningful.
Fans see other teams getting shiny new toys and want more themselves.
People are reactionary and can only react to what they see currently. People are not econs (econs being the behavioral economic definition of a rational, analytical reflective and deliberate person).
The "why can't we criticize Yzerman?!" crowd needs to just stop. Not everything in the world needs to be one side or the other. No one here thinks that Yzerman can do no wrong. Nobody thinks the Holl or Petry contracts were great. There is a large area between "Yzerman can do no wrong" and "everything he does is wrong".
I mostly see a lot of well thought out answers trying to understand the moves we are making on one side and a lot of screeching and criticizing using hindsight on the other. As a bottom dweller you never get the best FA deals and we did the best we could trying to become a better team. Now it’s time to cycle out some of the lesser deals we made and hopefully start to see the prospects. I don’t mind if people are just happy to complain but put some thought behind it. What would you have done differently, just suck for the last 5 years? It’s a strategy some take go watch one of those teams.
I totally understand. I guess I just recoil every time I hear doomers say they "aren't allowed to criticize Yzerman". It reeks of "complaining to just complain". I imagine it is many times worse on X or Facebook but it is a bummer when it pops up in our relatively positive subreddit group.
Outside of the draft, his success rate on trades and in free agency is pretty hit and miss. A lot of the signings we’re happy with today wouldn’t even be necessary if prior moves hadn’t been misses. Like Talbot for example. Great value signing on a guy who improves our goaltending. But it’s only necessary because we’ve missed on every other goaltending fix we’ve tried. And yet again, there’s no guarantees that Talbot will actually be much better behind this defense, we’re still playing a little bit of roulette hoping that he pans out.
I’m glad Kane didn’t even hit this market. Some team might have offered him 4 years and $8M AAV.
I think we're going to have to do way better next season to keep him. I hope we don't play games. We'll be paying him 2.5m (hopefully) we'll probably have to play him at another 6.5-7.5M to keep him around.
You hope we don’t play games? wtf does that even mean?
I hope we don't jerk him around on price too much.
I thought you literally meant NHL games. So I was really confused. Frankly I love Kane and if he still has it. I’m giving him whatever he wants to stay.
I hope he makes his full 6.5 million. How the bonuses work the 2.5M gets paid out of the 25-26 cap. At the end of the day we're probably going to be paying him close to 10M if we want to keep him. 2.5 from the previous season bonus + his salary. Dude took a hell of a pay cut to stay here so it's only fair to pay him a fair price next year.
Us last year: “we’re never going to see our prospects if we keep signing free agents” Us this year: “why isn’t Yzerman signing free agents?”
I think people confuse the 24 man roster with the 50 contracts limit lol.
Really happy that we didn’t hand out term. The contracts that were handed out today were just insane. Next year has an incredible free agent class as of right now, barring any resigning. 2025 FA Class Tavares, Marner, Draisaitl, Rantanen, Crosby, Hedman, Johansen, Kuznetsov, Orlov, Ekblad, Provorov, Boeser, Marchand, Ehlers, Pionk, Lindell, Buchnevich, Mangiapane, Konecny, Kuzmenko, Theodore The goalies are just as good Shesterkin, Ullmark, Saros, Lehner, Hill, Andersen, Georgiev Now I know a lot of these guys will probably resign but I just think if there’s a year to go after someone, next year has a lot better options than what was on the table this year.
Brett Pesce was not a bad contract
He was always going to NJ that wasn’t a real option for us
Let the Crosby/Hedman 2025-26 HYPE TRAIN BEGIN! Woooooooo woooooo!
100% agree, this was the year to stand pat and let the kids play. Even if that means taking a step back next year it’s still the best play for the long term
Marty Necas pleaseeeeeeee
If we get Necas or Pinto I'll be pretty content with this off-season
I'll pass on Pinto, but I'd for sure take Necas
Out of the younger centers it seems like Necas, Pinto and Zegras may be available. I like them in that order.
Necas is more like a winger
Pinto likely won’t happen.
Ottawa blocked Yzerman’s phone already
Well Skinner might finally see playoff hockey 1 year deal in Edmonton for 3m No way he takes that here. That's a great pick up for Edmonton
Remember we get the full regular season schedule tomorrow and only got the home openers listed today.
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Jeeze dude no need to come in here looking for an argument