Aside from our not so good looking defense situation, we lost over 120 points of production from Ghost, Perron, and Walman. And losing another 40+ points if and when Sprong doesn't re-sign. Ghost was one of our best powerplay guys too. You're not making up 160 points with guys from GR that haven't played in the show yet. We have gotten worse as a team so far this offseason.
I hope I'm wrong, but I don't see the Wings making playoffs this year unless we have a few guys that pop off.
Well yea, Wings have lost some offensive talent, yes but it isn't as simple as saying that all of that production is gone.
Let's look at your examples there.
As I put it, Edvinsson will be the replacement for Walman. How far off do you think he'll be? It think he might produce maybe 10 points less but he very well could match the 21, especially if playing together with Seider. Because remember, it is not just Edvinsson improving, it is Seider as well (if they play together). So, no worries there really for me, at worst we lose 10 points.
Perron then. He produced 47 points which will hard to match by Berggren, not impossible but hard. Then again, my suggestion was to sign new players to 2nd line. But anyways, let's look at the worst case scenario, Berggren. Had be be given as much opportunities and ice time as Perron last year he most likely would not have matched the points. But next year, one more year under his belt? Again, at most I think we are looking deduction of 10 points at the worst. And, at many times last season, Perron more a liability than an asset. So, I'm not at all worried by that.
Then. Shayne Gostisbehere. Yea, no way Gustafsson is scoring 56 points. Could he score 40? Maybe 35. So that's a loss of 20 points. Then again, Gosti was -16 so the loss in the win-loss column might not be that huge. If anything I think for the team's need right now it is a proper sidegrade. I think Detroit D need to be more equipped to handle their own zone and thus, once again, I've argued for more offensive minded 2nd line to be put together.
Sprong however I think is just a pure loss next season (unless Wings get the dream RFA/trade center - not a 1-for-1 replacement but in effect given how the others are replaced in this "big think" of mine). Basically it would be Kasper (or Danielson though Yzerman usually wants the players to play at least one season in GR). and yea, that's be a loss next season.
So, we stand to lose 40-55-ish points from what I can see vs the replacement. Then we get, I argue, better defense from said replacement. Probably at least 20 goals worth. That seems pretty balanced to me as we are comparing points to goals allowed as we have not even started on the strict upgrade on the net (Talbot+better utilization of Husso+Lyon). Then we have to take guesses if the remaining players have improved or regressed, I'd wager on improvement so that's why I think that next year's team (especially if the fortify 2nd line and top 4 D) will be better. The other team's power rankings shifting is larger issue to me, rather than necessarily Red Wings really regressing.
If we're looking solely at point production, might as well factor in a full season from Kane as well. He only played 50 games last season. Assuming he plays 25-30 more this year, that accounts for another chunk of "lost" points.
I hope Edvinsson has a good season. Will he be as good as Walman was for us in the past? I guess that depends on what situations Lalonde puts him in. Walman was a good skater, I don't think Edvinsson can move like him yet though.
Talbot had some decent numbers with LA, but that team was significantly better defensively than the Wing currently are. Can he put up similar numbers with us behind guys like Holl, Petry and Chariot? Idk that might be a big ask.
As a diehard Wings fan I want them to be better, 9 years without playoffs fuckin sucks. I hate to say it, I just don't see it happening this season either, I hope I'm wrong.
And ontop of all that, like you mentioned other teams in our division/conference are getting better, so it will be more difficult for the Wings to compete for a spot.
Talbot only needs to be better than Reimer though and I'm fairly certain that it'll be the case. Also hoping that Petry and Holl play as little as possible if not bought out before the season or something. Edvinsson prediction is a bit optimistic on my part but that is comparing him as a replacement for Walman - meaning he'd play with Seider which helps a lot I'd think. But yea, without additional talent, most likely traded this season might end up Wings falling short again. Hard to say, as said, depends highly on the other teams. But we can always hope.
We also got rid of some of the most defensively liable guys, and our 2nd and 5th guys with the most PIM last season.
We had lots of goals for last season but also a lot against.
This season we might have less goals for BUT don’t forget how we should have less goals against too.
I think he is much better suited to to play offensive 3rd line, and some powerplay rather than 2nd line. He can create plays, he is good at drawing penalties, he is a good shot and can be a playmaker. Basically I think he fills a similar role to Kane and playing them in the same line I think would be somewhat of a waste. I'd rather spread the offensive depth and maybe give him weaker opponents to play against to let him truly shine. Also, given my wish list for forwards to acquire, I think the 2nd line would be pure offense with little use of defense, Berggren, I think would be more suited to two way role though still weighted on offensive side of things.
I have full confidence that he can, unless the team implodes he should be scoring 20+ and/or 40+points goals this season. Then again I might be overly optimistic.
Compher is our 2nd line center. That is not going away. Petry likely stays in the lineup too (hopefully the 3rd pairing).
Aren’t both Maatta and Gustafsson LDs?
Compher is good player but I fear he might not be good enough for 2nd line. Also, its the same as with Berggren, I think he would shine as the center of offensive style 3rd center. If wings can get (at a reasonable price) a good 2nd line center from the available RFAs why not take the chance? Again, he's great, wings just need to start ramping up the skill level of the whole team. I absolutely see Compher as a piece of a SC contender build, I'd just wish to get a bit more from the 2nd line center. And, again, it is far from bad if there's no one taking his place.
As for Petry he probably will get to play, I agree, he shouldn't but he will. Too much downside to his game, it is not a winning move to keep in the playing roster. Also I could be wrong but I think Gustafsson can play RD.
Compher is the best we have there. I’d love to see him run a 3rd line as well, but Kasper or Danielson are not going to take that role from him next year if we’re being realistic. I have faith in 2-4 years it will occur. As far as RFA go, it would cost an arm and a leg to get our hands on a better 2C. As you’ve indicated, this is not the largest priority, so why would we?
Sounds like we agree, maybe just on the degree on how possible it could be to bring in a RFA. I think for the right forward Wings could offer a big contract, something that the original team might not be able to match. Then again, it is rare (which is unfortunate, I think that the mechanic itself is really neat) so yea, most likely would be trade of rights and that can get costly. Of course if the team simple does not have the cap to sign the player then who knows what the price would be.
But I don't think strengthening of the 2nd line is a nonissue, given how moderate the improvements were to G and D. Again, to me here it is quite imperative that Wings start to make runs in the playoffs, not just wait outside for the perfect team to manifest itself. Again, not by sacking their future but as everyone knows we have a ton of prospects, forgoing one year in draft would be fine if it meant that we offer sheeted a RFA who could play the 2nd line center for the foreseeable future.
But, I do not hate at the idea of just signing/trading a winger and brining Kasper in as the 3rd line center, it is not a bad move, it is just that Wings need to start figuring out the key players for the contender team. The team has veterans with playoff experience but clearly the team benefits of having such experience as together as a whole.
With the cap big names were really not going to happen. Trades are fine. Its not like all our prospects are untouchable. We didn't get last years FA crop in 1 day.
All the impact forwards have been pretty much cleared, you could (as I did) argue for maybe bringing in defenders. But the best ones have been cleared out and Detroit has more than enough mid level talent, no reason to stuff the system already quite stacked. If anything Wings need to move Fabbris of the world to make way for proper 1st line talent (once again, nothing against the guy, he's great, just maybe not on the one team that has so ridiculous depth).
Time to see some kids. Danielson, Mazur, kasper, soderblom?
Whoever is better needs to make it out of camp.
We are trying to build a contender and we haven’t had anyone except seider and Raymond make it to the nhl.
2/69 full time is pretty bad (yes I know I’m counting 2024)
Seems kind of a miss so far.
That is the issue of having great depth with not too many impact players - it is really hard for the rookies to break into the lineup. I must say I haven't watched their games last season so I have no real idea where they're at really but yes, I agree that during the next few (24,25) seasons we need to get few of them in. My need for outside talent comes from the fact that to be a contender you first need experience. My suggestion fields 1-2 rookie defensemen and 0-1 rookie forwards, it's not nothing. of the forwards, I think Kasper is the best fit to play center for 3rd line while Compher plays in the 2nd but, again, wishes, if Wings were able to sign Lundell for example surely you'd not be disappointed?
Yea, I'm talking about offer sheet or trade for rights and sign. And yes, it is unrealistic. Florida already spent a chunk of their cap for Reinhart and while I do not think they'd not match the offer/would ask too much for the rights it is still technically an option. Paying a few draft picks is fine at this point as the goal is to be a playoff team.
Compared to last year? How so? The goalies are better this year, defense is pretty much the same, maybe better if the young players improve and Chiarot does not regress but plays like he did on the latter part of the last season. The forward is the only position that might be weaker but then again, not by much, if at all. The team is pretty much the same if not better (by how much depends on the kids and their improvement), the larger issue is how the conference/division will look like.
We haven't for certain improved
Talbot is 35/36
Husso can't be relied on
We drove Lyon into the ground
Gostisbhere is better than Gustafsson
And we're hoping a few kids are able to provide production
Laine will be a wild card play
Only two years left on his deal, still young, could pop 30 goals, will share the scoring in the top 6
If Columbus is willing to retain part of his contract, I am all in
You either put him with Larkin and Ray, or Kane, he will snipe all day
I think 40 is the expectation if he'd play with Kane and 1st PP. It wouldn't even be career high for him. 30 would be somewhat disappointing. And given how much space Wings have I don't think they'd need to retain anything. I'd rather take the whole contract and cheaper price than compensate the retained salary with (more) picks.
I used him as an example more than anything else because he is available, would be relatively inexpensive and right now it seems that Wings have the cap space. The biggest problem here isn't his play, it is whether he can play a full 82 games if he were to be traded.
Wings will not be defensively strong team next year, that's just the nature of the beast. What I highlighted with Laine as an example is that Wings need to start accumulating talent and, given a full recovery, Laine would be just that, he's one of the best shots in the league and would improve Detroit's PP. I'm not saying they need to trade for him given his issues in staying fit to play but if they could get for, let's say Fabbri and few middle picks, it wouldn't bee too bad of a risk in my eyes. He'd help in getting some offense lost to FA and the replacements we got are already defensive upgrades. I get what you're saying but disagree on matter itself: Wings need to get upgrades somehow and Laine would be just that, elite scorer and a PP weapon. As stated it wouldn't make Wings a contender for the cup but it would push us closer.
And of course, there are less risky picks than Laine but a move like that is what needs to be done. Yes, there is a trend that SC winners have deep teams and in general I like what Yzerman has done in building team with depth but you need the impact players as well. And as much as people tend to say that it is only possible through draft, well that's not true, look at Panthers. You need your picks to fit in the key roles, that is true still but you only need a handful of them, the rest you can sign or trade for. Wings fit that profile nicely, I'd say.
I can get behind the idea of going for lottery pick type players, buying low and hoping they turn out. I like the idea of moving a Fabbri and a pick for Laine, its a lateral move on paper but I could see Laine having a high ceiling.
When you mentioned SC winning teams being deep I immediately thought of Colorado adding Nichushkinm for their run or Dallas adding Duchene or Flordia adding Tarasenko, players who wont be consistent volume scorers but have enough ability to give you a random goal when you need it.
I think you just talked me into Laine lol
Most likely won't happen, Yzerman hates risks if the drafting is any indication but if he gets someone with higher ceiling and not too long term I'd be happy. I don't think Wings need much but as the other teams are arming themselves doing nothing more than likely means that the core is left without playoff experience for one more year.
I'm not upset with the lack of impact signings on the first day of free agency since you don't build a winner through free agency. That being said, the projected roster doesn't look better or worse than it did last year. If the team performs the same as it did last year, its a team that will miss the playoffs.
What I'm upset at is Yzerman only drafting 3 payers that have played games in the NHL. If training camp wraps up and only Berggren is the one player from Grand Rapids to make the team, we have a problem. I'd rather lose with young players I know will be around in 4 years than players who will be retired in 4 years.
If we don't make any trades after we paid San Jose a second round pick to take Jake Wallman off out hands over Holl, Petry, or Copp it will be very disappointing. That being said I don't think Kane would sign a one year deal just to play on a team that seems fine with waiting another year to develop, which says to me maybe a trade IS on the way (which it better be for reasons stated above).
The offseason is over react season anyway so here's to a better day 2.
Here’s the lines no doubt drawn up roughly given our new signings.
Cat-Larks-Razor
Bergy-JT-Kaner
Ras-Copper-Fisher/Muzar
Fabs-V-Fisher/Muzar
Benny-Mo
Ed-Petry/Trouba/Maata/Gus
Johansson-Maata/Petry/Gus
Husso-Lyon-Talbot.
I’d love to here input but this has been my prediction since after the year ended. That D core doesn’t fall on the top 3 and how good Johansson does but it definitely doesn’t help if they struggle.
The forwards no doubt will look like this unless a prospect (let’s hope) forces their way on the team
Honestly a Trouba helps especially easily giving him minutes next to Simon so let’s hope.
Goaltending I’m not keen on but let’s hope husso can atleast stay healthy and Lyon prepares himself if he’s gotta take it again. Talbot let’s just wait and see.
That is the biggest hole in the lineup
We can add a top 6 forward at trade deadline if we need
But having Petry playing another season of top 4 D is brutal
I might switch Ras and Berggren. Berggren and Kane are both R wingers, I think Ras's size could really help on that line, and I think you don't want Compher being the only out there trusted with playing defensively (I think the 'Berggren is a defensive black hole' people are exaggerating, but he'd be well covered on a third line playing a Sprong sort of role, but put him with Kane and yeah, there will be some burns).
Ideally, one of Kasper or Danielson has a great camp and comes in to play middle 6 center, pushing Copp to 4 and Vel to the wing. There's no middle 6 centers available at a price we'll pay, our last few attempts (Compher and Copp) have not been great anyway, so time to see what the prospects bring. I'd do Ras - Kasper/Danielson - Kane then Fabs - Compher - Berggren in that case, with sort of equal minutes shared between lines 2 and 3. Kane will get plenty of extra minutes on PP1.
edit - meant to reply to the parent comment, not yours :/
I think Lolande specifically said he wants Copp on a defense 1st line and I think Ras joins that role hence the Fisher/Muzar slotting in. That’s my thinking on Berg playing top minutes. Plus if he plays 4th line that’s just killer to his Potential.
I liked that cat-lark-Razor line but maybe cat drops back and Berg slots up to line 1.
I guess I’m pretty high on berg being an immediate impact player. Im curious to see how are team looks come training camp
We have to be high on berg without filling in that top 6 elsewhere. He deserves a chance. This is his time to prove he can play a top 6 role on a decent team.
I think will roll with 3 goalies still
We seen how important that was this season gone
Husso
Lyon
Talbot
I’m not sure who will be the rotation guy sitting out
Reimer obviously is gone
Which one will take the rotation roll and not be on the starter / backup role
For line up I’m guessing
Cat Larkin Raymond
? Compher Kane
Ras copp fischer
Fabbri Veleno Berggren
Chiarot Seider
Ed petry(unfortunately)
Gus Maata
Lagesson Johansson
Husso/talbot/lyon
? Can be filled in 3 ways :
Ufa - Jack Roslovic available and fits the roll
Trade - Necas, gonna cost a regular or two like Berggren plus picks and prospects
Rookies - mazur, kasper or Danielson. Can even move fabbri/Berggren up to not overplay them early
Roslovic would be a mistake. As stated, Wings have more than enough "middle 6" type players, the last thing they need is more. Unless you get a player who is a specialist in top of their role or a true 1st liner you do not spend any resources on them I say. UFA does not have any such impact players left so offer sheet/trade it is. And if the price is too high just get Kasper to play 3rd line C. Of course, if they could flip few of the middle 6 players and a pick to someone better that would be great, more space for kids and higher ceiling for the top players. But I think that is as unlikely as being able to sing/trade for rights of a high level RFA. Again, my thesis here is if you use any resources we need them to be high impact players, depth we have, high highs we lack.
As for the lines I agree for the most part, just swap Fabbri to 2nd line wing, play Veleno at wing and Kasper at Center and then call the Copp line 4th. And if Berggren starts popping off switch him and Fabbri then. Or let Cat play with Kane and put Fabbri/Berg there. But that just underlines the issue, Wings lack the true 1st line talent. Larkin, I argue, is fine 1C and in a few years Raymond could be a good 1st liner but for now it is light. There is good depth to compensate the lack of high highs and that's why I'm not desperate to just start trading like a madman but it is an issue.
Defense is the same story, Petry should not play in 2nd pair, I'd much rather see a rookie there than him if Wings cannot get anyone better. Trouba would've been okay solution given a cheap price but I guess he doesn't want the transfer. He would've brought some defensive upside as well as general size and threat to the D which would've been good. Someone else here mentioned Ekblad and I think he would be a good choice as well. Again, if the price would be, let's say, Johansson + 2nd round pick + Veleno/Fabbri, I'd be fine with trading for a true top 4 D. As for the parings I really would like to see Edvinsson with Seider, just to free Chiarot to play with a rookie on 2nd pair (I really don't want to see Petry or Holl play regular minutes). Or if you are feeling adventurous you could pair the D like Sider-Chiarot, Gustafsson-Edvinsson, Määttä-(the best performing kid out of the camp). The 1st pair would still be bad because of Chiarot but not unusable, 2nd line I think might be risky but hey, let the swedes play together and Määttä is really responsible player who could cover some weaknesses of a younger player. He played great with Hronek, he was +14 paired with Gosti, I'm sure he'd make it work with a skilled rookie as well.
But yea, things are not awful by any means, the system is just filled top the brim with mid tier talent which makes it harder for rookies to get in and hampers the ceiling of the team as a whole. The core is fine, Yzerman just needs to add a few high impact pieces and things should fall into place.
I wouldn’t want petry playing regular minutes either and would have him as a rotating 7th d. But I’m assuming based off of contracts and his usage last year is he’ll play
Holl is gone and likely cost a buyout or assets. I don’t see them also doing something like that for one year of petry
I probably wouldn't get both. Only one or the other, they have too much of a cap hit risk to be both acquired. If I had to get one, I'd get Laine because such scoring is not easy to come by. Trouba is more of an enforcer than shutdown defensive defenseman but given how the defense is the larger problem right now I could not fault anyone for going Trouba rather than Laine. Then again, Trouba, it seems, is not willing to come, Laine might be.
And hell, if Wings can get someone else, someone less risky but still 1st line/ top 4 level at decent cost, that's better. I don't think that's on the table and thus I'd like to gamble on Laine. I think he could elevate the PP to top 5-ish range. That would also maximize the utility the Wings get out of Kane, having a true sniper threat to pass the puck to. Also that'd mean Cat would play in 2nd unit meaning Wings would have one of the most dangerous 2nd powerplay units out there. It would greatly help with the "points lost" this offseason though it would build more pressure to fix the defensive side of things the next offseason/trade DL.
Of course if he booms then it is a terrible contract to have for the 2 seasons he'd be signed through, this season would not be an issue given how Yzerman didn't sign anyone expensive but it would be a problem come the next year. So, high risk high reward, I think to build a contender some risks need to be taken, I'm just not convinced if this is the one to take.
Good points, I think we have lost more on defense than offense so far this year. Trouba might not be the best dman out there but we need some high power caliber d guys to help.
> Of the Trades, I think Detroit could benefit from trading for Laine for example. He should be cheap and given that Yzerman did not spend on FA the price could be cheap. He's a liability on defense but he'd be a great boon to the powerplay, something that actually suffers from losing Gosti. Of course there are injury/personal issues to be very of but still, if a clean trade Fabbri to Laine could be made I think that'd be good.
please, make this happen, please please please please
We’ll see what happens at mini camp, but we’ve drafted far too many defensemen, someone has to make the jump.
Best option is to dump either Holl or Chiarot and use San Jose as a middle man to retain salary per “future considerations”.
My top D with a realistic reach to get:
Cam Flower with retained salary (one of the only bright spots on a terrible team)
Tyson Barrie for the right amount on a 1 year deal
All I’ve seen is talks about Aaron Ekblad being moved not sure how much we’d have to give up, but given what Chychurn went for maybe a D and a 2nd
I think the defender needs to be responsible defenseman with some offensive upside. Ekblad I think could work out of those 3. Depending on who the D would be I think the price would be good, as you said, it isn't too bad to trade a mid prospect as well, Wings have plenty of them.
Aside from our not so good looking defense situation, we lost over 120 points of production from Ghost, Perron, and Walman. And losing another 40+ points if and when Sprong doesn't re-sign. Ghost was one of our best powerplay guys too. You're not making up 160 points with guys from GR that haven't played in the show yet. We have gotten worse as a team so far this offseason. I hope I'm wrong, but I don't see the Wings making playoffs this year unless we have a few guys that pop off.
Well yea, Wings have lost some offensive talent, yes but it isn't as simple as saying that all of that production is gone. Let's look at your examples there. As I put it, Edvinsson will be the replacement for Walman. How far off do you think he'll be? It think he might produce maybe 10 points less but he very well could match the 21, especially if playing together with Seider. Because remember, it is not just Edvinsson improving, it is Seider as well (if they play together). So, no worries there really for me, at worst we lose 10 points. Perron then. He produced 47 points which will hard to match by Berggren, not impossible but hard. Then again, my suggestion was to sign new players to 2nd line. But anyways, let's look at the worst case scenario, Berggren. Had be be given as much opportunities and ice time as Perron last year he most likely would not have matched the points. But next year, one more year under his belt? Again, at most I think we are looking deduction of 10 points at the worst. And, at many times last season, Perron more a liability than an asset. So, I'm not at all worried by that. Then. Shayne Gostisbehere. Yea, no way Gustafsson is scoring 56 points. Could he score 40? Maybe 35. So that's a loss of 20 points. Then again, Gosti was -16 so the loss in the win-loss column might not be that huge. If anything I think for the team's need right now it is a proper sidegrade. I think Detroit D need to be more equipped to handle their own zone and thus, once again, I've argued for more offensive minded 2nd line to be put together. Sprong however I think is just a pure loss next season (unless Wings get the dream RFA/trade center - not a 1-for-1 replacement but in effect given how the others are replaced in this "big think" of mine). Basically it would be Kasper (or Danielson though Yzerman usually wants the players to play at least one season in GR). and yea, that's be a loss next season. So, we stand to lose 40-55-ish points from what I can see vs the replacement. Then we get, I argue, better defense from said replacement. Probably at least 20 goals worth. That seems pretty balanced to me as we are comparing points to goals allowed as we have not even started on the strict upgrade on the net (Talbot+better utilization of Husso+Lyon). Then we have to take guesses if the remaining players have improved or regressed, I'd wager on improvement so that's why I think that next year's team (especially if the fortify 2nd line and top 4 D) will be better. The other team's power rankings shifting is larger issue to me, rather than necessarily Red Wings really regressing.
If we're looking solely at point production, might as well factor in a full season from Kane as well. He only played 50 games last season. Assuming he plays 25-30 more this year, that accounts for another chunk of "lost" points.
I hope Edvinsson has a good season. Will he be as good as Walman was for us in the past? I guess that depends on what situations Lalonde puts him in. Walman was a good skater, I don't think Edvinsson can move like him yet though. Talbot had some decent numbers with LA, but that team was significantly better defensively than the Wing currently are. Can he put up similar numbers with us behind guys like Holl, Petry and Chariot? Idk that might be a big ask. As a diehard Wings fan I want them to be better, 9 years without playoffs fuckin sucks. I hate to say it, I just don't see it happening this season either, I hope I'm wrong. And ontop of all that, like you mentioned other teams in our division/conference are getting better, so it will be more difficult for the Wings to compete for a spot.
The Kings gave up nearly 400 less shot attempts than the Wings did last year. Its going to be a different world for Talbot as a Red Wing.
Talbot only needs to be better than Reimer though and I'm fairly certain that it'll be the case. Also hoping that Petry and Holl play as little as possible if not bought out before the season or something. Edvinsson prediction is a bit optimistic on my part but that is comparing him as a replacement for Walman - meaning he'd play with Seider which helps a lot I'd think. But yea, without additional talent, most likely traded this season might end up Wings falling short again. Hard to say, as said, depends highly on the other teams. But we can always hope.
We also got rid of some of the most defensively liable guys, and our 2nd and 5th guys with the most PIM last season. We had lots of goals for last season but also a lot against. This season we might have less goals for BUT don’t forget how we should have less goals against too.
could bergren finally get a top 6 spot
ik he has to earn it but still exciting
I think he is much better suited to to play offensive 3rd line, and some powerplay rather than 2nd line. He can create plays, he is good at drawing penalties, he is a good shot and can be a playmaker. Basically I think he fills a similar role to Kane and playing them in the same line I think would be somewhat of a waste. I'd rather spread the offensive depth and maybe give him weaker opponents to play against to let him truly shine. Also, given my wish list for forwards to acquire, I think the 2nd line would be pure offense with little use of defense, Berggren, I think would be more suited to two way role though still weighted on offensive side of things.
yea maybe, but hopefully he can shine now that there’s open spots
I have full confidence that he can, unless the team implodes he should be scoring 20+ and/or 40+points goals this season. Then again I might be overly optimistic.
Compher is our 2nd line center. That is not going away. Petry likely stays in the lineup too (hopefully the 3rd pairing). Aren’t both Maatta and Gustafsson LDs?
Yea We have loads of lefties
Compher is good player but I fear he might not be good enough for 2nd line. Also, its the same as with Berggren, I think he would shine as the center of offensive style 3rd center. If wings can get (at a reasonable price) a good 2nd line center from the available RFAs why not take the chance? Again, he's great, wings just need to start ramping up the skill level of the whole team. I absolutely see Compher as a piece of a SC contender build, I'd just wish to get a bit more from the 2nd line center. And, again, it is far from bad if there's no one taking his place. As for Petry he probably will get to play, I agree, he shouldn't but he will. Too much downside to his game, it is not a winning move to keep in the playing roster. Also I could be wrong but I think Gustafsson can play RD.
Compher is the best we have there. I’d love to see him run a 3rd line as well, but Kasper or Danielson are not going to take that role from him next year if we’re being realistic. I have faith in 2-4 years it will occur. As far as RFA go, it would cost an arm and a leg to get our hands on a better 2C. As you’ve indicated, this is not the largest priority, so why would we?
Sounds like we agree, maybe just on the degree on how possible it could be to bring in a RFA. I think for the right forward Wings could offer a big contract, something that the original team might not be able to match. Then again, it is rare (which is unfortunate, I think that the mechanic itself is really neat) so yea, most likely would be trade of rights and that can get costly. Of course if the team simple does not have the cap to sign the player then who knows what the price would be. But I don't think strengthening of the 2nd line is a nonissue, given how moderate the improvements were to G and D. Again, to me here it is quite imperative that Wings start to make runs in the playoffs, not just wait outside for the perfect team to manifest itself. Again, not by sacking their future but as everyone knows we have a ton of prospects, forgoing one year in draft would be fine if it meant that we offer sheeted a RFA who could play the 2nd line center for the foreseeable future. But, I do not hate at the idea of just signing/trading a winger and brining Kasper in as the 3rd line center, it is not a bad move, it is just that Wings need to start figuring out the key players for the contender team. The team has veterans with playoff experience but clearly the team benefits of having such experience as together as a whole.
Free agency has been open for less than a day. You think it's over?
90% of the "big" names are off the board. Any big moves the Wings make from here would likely be through trades.
With the cap big names were really not going to happen. Trades are fine. Its not like all our prospects are untouchable. We didn't get last years FA crop in 1 day.
All the impact forwards have been pretty much cleared, you could (as I did) argue for maybe bringing in defenders. But the best ones have been cleared out and Detroit has more than enough mid level talent, no reason to stuff the system already quite stacked. If anything Wings need to move Fabbris of the world to make way for proper 1st line talent (once again, nothing against the guy, he's great, just maybe not on the one team that has so ridiculous depth).
Time to see some kids. Danielson, Mazur, kasper, soderblom? Whoever is better needs to make it out of camp. We are trying to build a contender and we haven’t had anyone except seider and Raymond make it to the nhl. 2/69 full time is pretty bad (yes I know I’m counting 2024) Seems kind of a miss so far.
That is the issue of having great depth with not too many impact players - it is really hard for the rookies to break into the lineup. I must say I haven't watched their games last season so I have no real idea where they're at really but yes, I agree that during the next few (24,25) seasons we need to get few of them in. My need for outside talent comes from the fact that to be a contender you first need experience. My suggestion fields 1-2 rookie defensemen and 0-1 rookie forwards, it's not nothing. of the forwards, I think Kasper is the best fit to play center for 3rd line while Compher plays in the 2nd but, again, wishes, if Wings were able to sign Lundell for example surely you'd not be disappointed?
Lundell is an RFA. We can't sign him.
Yea, I'm talking about offer sheet or trade for rights and sign. And yes, it is unrealistic. Florida already spent a chunk of their cap for Reinhart and while I do not think they'd not match the offer/would ask too much for the rights it is still technically an option. Paying a few draft picks is fine at this point as the goal is to be a playoff team.
Yeah Yzerman hasn’t taken a shot at drafting forward with a high ceiling. Always goes for the same type of player each year.
The Wings are a worse team
Compared to last year? How so? The goalies are better this year, defense is pretty much the same, maybe better if the young players improve and Chiarot does not regress but plays like he did on the latter part of the last season. The forward is the only position that might be weaker but then again, not by much, if at all. The team is pretty much the same if not better (by how much depends on the kids and their improvement), the larger issue is how the conference/division will look like.
We haven't for certain improved Talbot is 35/36 Husso can't be relied on We drove Lyon into the ground Gostisbhere is better than Gustafsson And we're hoping a few kids are able to provide production
Laine will be a wild card play Only two years left on his deal, still young, could pop 30 goals, will share the scoring in the top 6 If Columbus is willing to retain part of his contract, I am all in You either put him with Larkin and Ray, or Kane, he will snipe all day
I think 40 is the expectation if he'd play with Kane and 1st PP. It wouldn't even be career high for him. 30 would be somewhat disappointing. And given how much space Wings have I don't think they'd need to retain anything. I'd rather take the whole contract and cheaper price than compensate the retained salary with (more) picks.
For a team that is loaded with wingers and wants/needs to play better defensively, the last thing we need is Patrick Laine.
I used him as an example more than anything else because he is available, would be relatively inexpensive and right now it seems that Wings have the cap space. The biggest problem here isn't his play, it is whether he can play a full 82 games if he were to be traded. Wings will not be defensively strong team next year, that's just the nature of the beast. What I highlighted with Laine as an example is that Wings need to start accumulating talent and, given a full recovery, Laine would be just that, he's one of the best shots in the league and would improve Detroit's PP. I'm not saying they need to trade for him given his issues in staying fit to play but if they could get for, let's say Fabbri and few middle picks, it wouldn't bee too bad of a risk in my eyes. He'd help in getting some offense lost to FA and the replacements we got are already defensive upgrades. I get what you're saying but disagree on matter itself: Wings need to get upgrades somehow and Laine would be just that, elite scorer and a PP weapon. As stated it wouldn't make Wings a contender for the cup but it would push us closer. And of course, there are less risky picks than Laine but a move like that is what needs to be done. Yes, there is a trend that SC winners have deep teams and in general I like what Yzerman has done in building team with depth but you need the impact players as well. And as much as people tend to say that it is only possible through draft, well that's not true, look at Panthers. You need your picks to fit in the key roles, that is true still but you only need a handful of them, the rest you can sign or trade for. Wings fit that profile nicely, I'd say.
I can get behind the idea of going for lottery pick type players, buying low and hoping they turn out. I like the idea of moving a Fabbri and a pick for Laine, its a lateral move on paper but I could see Laine having a high ceiling. When you mentioned SC winning teams being deep I immediately thought of Colorado adding Nichushkinm for their run or Dallas adding Duchene or Flordia adding Tarasenko, players who wont be consistent volume scorers but have enough ability to give you a random goal when you need it. I think you just talked me into Laine lol
Most likely won't happen, Yzerman hates risks if the drafting is any indication but if he gets someone with higher ceiling and not too long term I'd be happy. I don't think Wings need much but as the other teams are arming themselves doing nothing more than likely means that the core is left without playoff experience for one more year.
They've been a bad defensive team for years and nothing they did today has made them any better.
Still waiting for the other shoe to drop on that Walman trade that this sub keeps saying is coming. 
Trouba I'm guessing, if it even happens now.
I'm not upset with the lack of impact signings on the first day of free agency since you don't build a winner through free agency. That being said, the projected roster doesn't look better or worse than it did last year. If the team performs the same as it did last year, its a team that will miss the playoffs. What I'm upset at is Yzerman only drafting 3 payers that have played games in the NHL. If training camp wraps up and only Berggren is the one player from Grand Rapids to make the team, we have a problem. I'd rather lose with young players I know will be around in 4 years than players who will be retired in 4 years. If we don't make any trades after we paid San Jose a second round pick to take Jake Wallman off out hands over Holl, Petry, or Copp it will be very disappointing. That being said I don't think Kane would sign a one year deal just to play on a team that seems fine with waiting another year to develop, which says to me maybe a trade IS on the way (which it better be for reasons stated above). The offseason is over react season anyway so here's to a better day 2.
Here’s the lines no doubt drawn up roughly given our new signings. Cat-Larks-Razor Bergy-JT-Kaner Ras-Copper-Fisher/Muzar Fabs-V-Fisher/Muzar Benny-Mo Ed-Petry/Trouba/Maata/Gus Johansson-Maata/Petry/Gus Husso-Lyon-Talbot. I’d love to here input but this has been my prediction since after the year ended. That D core doesn’t fall on the top 3 and how good Johansson does but it definitely doesn’t help if they struggle. The forwards no doubt will look like this unless a prospect (let’s hope) forces their way on the team Honestly a Trouba helps especially easily giving him minutes next to Simon so let’s hope. Goaltending I’m not keen on but let’s hope husso can atleast stay healthy and Lyon prepares himself if he’s gotta take it again. Talbot let’s just wait and see.
This is exactly how I see it. We need help on that 2nd RD more than anything else imo. Maatta plays left side though.
That is the biggest hole in the lineup We can add a top 6 forward at trade deadline if we need But having Petry playing another season of top 4 D is brutal
Absolutely. If nothing else, just to better develop Ed. I can’t help but think him with Petry could stunt growth.
Gus is a lefty although he can play on the right side
I might switch Ras and Berggren. Berggren and Kane are both R wingers, I think Ras's size could really help on that line, and I think you don't want Compher being the only out there trusted with playing defensively (I think the 'Berggren is a defensive black hole' people are exaggerating, but he'd be well covered on a third line playing a Sprong sort of role, but put him with Kane and yeah, there will be some burns). Ideally, one of Kasper or Danielson has a great camp and comes in to play middle 6 center, pushing Copp to 4 and Vel to the wing. There's no middle 6 centers available at a price we'll pay, our last few attempts (Compher and Copp) have not been great anyway, so time to see what the prospects bring. I'd do Ras - Kasper/Danielson - Kane then Fabs - Compher - Berggren in that case, with sort of equal minutes shared between lines 2 and 3. Kane will get plenty of extra minutes on PP1. edit - meant to reply to the parent comment, not yours :/
Kasper and Danielson won’t start as centers, they will start on the wing to learn the ropes
I think Lolande specifically said he wants Copp on a defense 1st line and I think Ras joins that role hence the Fisher/Muzar slotting in. That’s my thinking on Berg playing top minutes. Plus if he plays 4th line that’s just killer to his Potential. I liked that cat-lark-Razor line but maybe cat drops back and Berg slots up to line 1. I guess I’m pretty high on berg being an immediate impact player. Im curious to see how are team looks come training camp
We have to be high on berg without filling in that top 6 elsewhere. He deserves a chance. This is his time to prove he can play a top 6 role on a decent team.
That top 6 is pretty small
I think will roll with 3 goalies still We seen how important that was this season gone Husso Lyon Talbot I’m not sure who will be the rotation guy sitting out Reimer obviously is gone Which one will take the rotation roll and not be on the starter / backup role
TL;DR, LGRW
For line up I’m guessing Cat Larkin Raymond ? Compher Kane Ras copp fischer Fabbri Veleno Berggren Chiarot Seider Ed petry(unfortunately) Gus Maata Lagesson Johansson Husso/talbot/lyon ? Can be filled in 3 ways : Ufa - Jack Roslovic available and fits the roll Trade - Necas, gonna cost a regular or two like Berggren plus picks and prospects Rookies - mazur, kasper or Danielson. Can even move fabbri/Berggren up to not overplay them early
Roslovic would be a mistake. As stated, Wings have more than enough "middle 6" type players, the last thing they need is more. Unless you get a player who is a specialist in top of their role or a true 1st liner you do not spend any resources on them I say. UFA does not have any such impact players left so offer sheet/trade it is. And if the price is too high just get Kasper to play 3rd line C. Of course, if they could flip few of the middle 6 players and a pick to someone better that would be great, more space for kids and higher ceiling for the top players. But I think that is as unlikely as being able to sing/trade for rights of a high level RFA. Again, my thesis here is if you use any resources we need them to be high impact players, depth we have, high highs we lack. As for the lines I agree for the most part, just swap Fabbri to 2nd line wing, play Veleno at wing and Kasper at Center and then call the Copp line 4th. And if Berggren starts popping off switch him and Fabbri then. Or let Cat play with Kane and put Fabbri/Berg there. But that just underlines the issue, Wings lack the true 1st line talent. Larkin, I argue, is fine 1C and in a few years Raymond could be a good 1st liner but for now it is light. There is good depth to compensate the lack of high highs and that's why I'm not desperate to just start trading like a madman but it is an issue. Defense is the same story, Petry should not play in 2nd pair, I'd much rather see a rookie there than him if Wings cannot get anyone better. Trouba would've been okay solution given a cheap price but I guess he doesn't want the transfer. He would've brought some defensive upside as well as general size and threat to the D which would've been good. Someone else here mentioned Ekblad and I think he would be a good choice as well. Again, if the price would be, let's say, Johansson + 2nd round pick + Veleno/Fabbri, I'd be fine with trading for a true top 4 D. As for the parings I really would like to see Edvinsson with Seider, just to free Chiarot to play with a rookie on 2nd pair (I really don't want to see Petry or Holl play regular minutes). Or if you are feeling adventurous you could pair the D like Sider-Chiarot, Gustafsson-Edvinsson, Määttä-(the best performing kid out of the camp). The 1st pair would still be bad because of Chiarot but not unusable, 2nd line I think might be risky but hey, let the swedes play together and Määttä is really responsible player who could cover some weaknesses of a younger player. He played great with Hronek, he was +14 paired with Gosti, I'm sure he'd make it work with a skilled rookie as well. But yea, things are not awful by any means, the system is just filled top the brim with mid tier talent which makes it harder for rookies to get in and hampers the ceiling of the team as a whole. The core is fine, Yzerman just needs to add a few high impact pieces and things should fall into place.
I wouldn’t want petry playing regular minutes either and would have him as a rotating 7th d. But I’m assuming based off of contracts and his usage last year is he’ll play Holl is gone and likely cost a buyout or assets. I don’t see them also doing something like that for one year of petry
True, Lalonde (mis)places a lot of trust in Petry it would seem. But who knows, maybe he can play better this season. Miracles have happened before.
I’m not sure picking up laine and maybe trouba may be too much of a performance risk. But have a good upside if they can get their heads on right.
I probably wouldn't get both. Only one or the other, they have too much of a cap hit risk to be both acquired. If I had to get one, I'd get Laine because such scoring is not easy to come by. Trouba is more of an enforcer than shutdown defensive defenseman but given how the defense is the larger problem right now I could not fault anyone for going Trouba rather than Laine. Then again, Trouba, it seems, is not willing to come, Laine might be. And hell, if Wings can get someone else, someone less risky but still 1st line/ top 4 level at decent cost, that's better. I don't think that's on the table and thus I'd like to gamble on Laine. I think he could elevate the PP to top 5-ish range. That would also maximize the utility the Wings get out of Kane, having a true sniper threat to pass the puck to. Also that'd mean Cat would play in 2nd unit meaning Wings would have one of the most dangerous 2nd powerplay units out there. It would greatly help with the "points lost" this offseason though it would build more pressure to fix the defensive side of things the next offseason/trade DL. Of course if he booms then it is a terrible contract to have for the 2 seasons he'd be signed through, this season would not be an issue given how Yzerman didn't sign anyone expensive but it would be a problem come the next year. So, high risk high reward, I think to build a contender some risks need to be taken, I'm just not convinced if this is the one to take.
Good points, I think we have lost more on defense than offense so far this year. Trouba might not be the best dman out there but we need some high power caliber d guys to help.
I'm just excited we still get 2 more seasons of paying Justin "I was there when they won the cup" Abdelkader over $1mil not to play for us
> Of the Trades, I think Detroit could benefit from trading for Laine for example. He should be cheap and given that Yzerman did not spend on FA the price could be cheap. He's a liability on defense but he'd be a great boon to the powerplay, something that actually suffers from losing Gosti. Of course there are injury/personal issues to be very of but still, if a clean trade Fabbri to Laine could be made I think that'd be good. please, make this happen, please please please please
We’ll see what happens at mini camp, but we’ve drafted far too many defensemen, someone has to make the jump. Best option is to dump either Holl or Chiarot and use San Jose as a middle man to retain salary per “future considerations”. My top D with a realistic reach to get: Cam Flower with retained salary (one of the only bright spots on a terrible team) Tyson Barrie for the right amount on a 1 year deal All I’ve seen is talks about Aaron Ekblad being moved not sure how much we’d have to give up, but given what Chychurn went for maybe a D and a 2nd
I think the defender needs to be responsible defenseman with some offensive upside. Ekblad I think could work out of those 3. Depending on who the D would be I think the price would be good, as you said, it isn't too bad to trade a mid prospect as well, Wings have plenty of them.
I agree on Fowler. He is an LD but can play on the right side. Only two years left on his contract as well.
Any word on Pinto? Sounds like Ottawa’s already pretty strapped on cap space now and they need to sign him
He asks for a trade No movement on that yet